hello hello last year how you doing i start a little bit late today uh just finished my podcast
episode with dill on my podcast gm good music which will be launching this year um having some
amazing conversations on this podcast and excited to get it out um when when it's ready and uh yeah
we had emma as my first ever uh guest on the podcast and she dropped loads of alpha and gems on there too
and um but yeah today we're going to be talking about spotify versus music entities uh so make
sure to retweet the room it's going to be a fascinating conversation uh there's no right
or wrong answer but it'll be good to get everybody's take on um probably what is the best path ahead
in 2024 and um yeah we need clickbait we literally have all the answers up here we're going to tell
we have everything this is better than that it's better than the other thing
wait wait where is it boom let's bring those sounds back to to make emma happy uh good
morning uh fondue gm to hannah be deep mihayla and hello sergi good to see you here hope you're
doing well happy wednesday happy hump day uh mine and emma's favorite day of the week where we
host twitter spaces uh at this time every week and um yeah uh i'm not pretty much let's maybe
kick off with a bit of music first um but i'm not really set up tech-wise so let's just use uh
spotify um what thing as we were i was just chatting to uh to dill why don't we play one
of his tunes play a classic this is gm let's go oh it's not working here we go gm
Yeah, I wake up with my baby girl that said I can't hear
Now you know I ain't got a hater, now I can't believe I see that
We're all gonna make it, take my girl on vacation
Add Axe to the top, honey, Axe, make it pop
I can't do this if you wanna leave me on and on my own
If you quarantine too long so I feel puppy all along
Won't be made in mind and if these are better when I'm stoned
I'll be hard, then I'll like me, I'll be staring at my phone
D.M., I can't do it by myself
D.M., everybody needs help
D.M., have a great, great day
We're all about heart, but we gotta get paid
Even boys been around so much that I don't wanna meet them
Just like the woman, just like the woman
Wake up to my baby, gonna tell the girl again
Now you know I ain't got a hater, now I can't even see that
We're all gonna make it, make it
And voila! G.M. everybody
That was great, now let's get to the conversation
And some more newbies, Mrs.
Hello Boo Ching, Boo Ching won our savage
Quiz in our community hang yesterday
Congratulations, he just managed to beat me
He was very happy for Boo Ching
Sheba, how's it going man?
I hope you're doing well, happy new year
How's the bowling going? Nice little
new PFP out there, looks like you're collecting
a lot of owls at the moment
I'm collecting owls, yeah
just changing the outfit, they made like a little
where you can change background and stuff
I don't know, some creativity
Two bowling leagues I was in, we finished
coming in May, which I'm going to put towards
I don't know, crypto, music NFTs
maybe vacation, not really sure yet
Everything is really good, can't complain
I got a haircut, I was just tired
so I left the front a little long
so I still have the blonde
but it's just like a portion in the front
I just put a 3 around my whole head
so I just feel free, I feel like
it's like a Britney Spears moment
I may have had like a midlife crisis
It sounds like you just subscribed to
I feel good though, happy
Can you share a picture in the comments?
Can you share a picture in the comments?
Good morning everybody, we posted a
Em, I know you're doing your
Britney Spears moments every single
What does that mean? What's my Britney Spears moment?
I've had a very productive day
It is such a game changer
to work, it's like, did anybody
read that book or watch that film
where Bradley Cooper finds this
incredible drug that makes you
1000% more productive as a person
and like, predicts the stock market
that's how I feel when I work in a cafe
like, what I can get done in a
3 hour stint is, it feels like a magic
power, so it's been a good day
I just announced some cool
I'm excited, this is like one of the best January's
I've ever had, in terms of
excited for the year I had
How's your youth fully recovered
out the woods with all your
horribleness from last week
Chris, I was knocked out for good 2
weeks there, I couldn't even talk, let alone
sing, because I had really
painful tonsillitis, it was quite
funny really, I was at the
talk to ask for it, I had to use my phone
kind of communicate, it was
concerning, I was like, yeah
if I didn't have my antibiotics, I probably would have had
to go to hospital the next day
but having said that, this has actually
been a great January for me as well
it felt like I was at death's door
what I love about being ill is that
I don't feel guilty about taking time off
which I think I really needed to
a lot of sleep that I wasn't getting over the
last year, actually a couple of years
kind of gave me the kind of time off to
strategy for 2024 and I'm really
excited to really be applying
releasing new songs again
very exciting and that's why we're going to have this
this January so far, it's actually
beautiful outside in Berlin at the moment
even though it's dark right now, it's coated
bad weather when she's actually now in Nashville
10 or 12 degrees instead of
You win some, you lose some. Exactly.
great year, also really excited
to unfold some things with my
Savage Tribe community, we've rebranded
from Savage Designs to Savage Tribe
now to be a bit more palatable
effort to onboard more traditional fans
The stamps are finally going to
come out in a couple of weeks
to everybody for your patience on that
it's been a long time coming
making this Freeman extra special
so yeah, welcome everybody
is just joining, we've got
a fair bit of space on stage
still so do come on up and
repost the room now, it's weird
saying repost the room instead of retweet the room
OGs here such as Cristiano
big music supporter Treasure up here
as well, see we got Melissa
down there as well, 6 in the morning
hello to Raggers down there
Well first off I feel like
before we get into this because it's a hot topic
do you mind if I give my little
in August and then that means
let the DJani begin because I hopped in
Mitch's space this morning
fond you that were already part
side line of this discussion, they're back
and I feel like they're going to take the bait
at any moment and just run away
passionate we all feel about different
different sides, we've got Emily up here
I have just announced today
I've kind of soft launched it into the
I have officially announced over
Exaverse that I'm hosting my
first community event in August
it's taking place on the weekend of August
in the very northeast of Scotland
I've just created a little
Discord channel for confirmed
kind of people and interested parties
to Melissa down there who
booked everything including
accommodation from Hawaii
of people part of this event
it's going to be two days, we've got
whiskey experience in store
we have live performances
being submerged in my world
up in the northeast like a once in a lifetime
little extra goodies along
the way, I'm kind of, it's January
the event is in August so I'm holding back
are at the heart and it's a massive
so if you're interested in being
in the tweet that's pinned
and I've made it, I think
it's not sending you on a complete
wild goose chase of collecting
things, many of you might already hold
to kind of show that you're committed
is collecting all five songs
from my artifacts collection
so there are two of the rarest traits in the collection
if you happen to already have a silk moth
and if you're familiar with
all the ten moths, the silk moth
is the rarest that grants you
and I'm caveatting all of this
we are limited to 25 people
at the moment for this event, I think
we've got about ten spots
I'll kind of confirm that as we go
and I've not announced it
that's that, so we're gonna
I will be your gracious host
I'm encouraging if people are extending
I'm gonna see who's brave enough to do a Cold War
swim with me in the North Sea here in Scotland
there's gonna be other musicians
involved and kind of creating the whole thing
excited and passionate about this
it's gonna be truly special
oh and it's your birthday
that week as well on the 5th
and the other week before
and it looks like I might be doing my first ever
Scottish Conference in Web3 the week
before as well, we're hosting
which I was like, how is this happening
of calling it Batchfest then
wasn't gonna help my sponsors
it Harmony in the Highlands because
you have to go through the Highlands to get to where I am
and it's all about Harmony
and Meals that Gun Community so I was like
that totally speaks, we might
workshop the name, I don't know
all of you that qualify but honestly
it's an open invitation so if
you meet the requirements
or if you want to send me a DM
then I want to keep you in the loop
and you'll hear lots and lots and lots about this
for the next eight months, whether you want to or not
10th and 11th of August, 50%
people should head to your Discord for further
alpha on that which they can
find in your profile, let's
I'm kind of gutted, Violetta
is not here yet, I can't wait to hear
fuck Spotify, fuck Spotify
but maybe that will come later
hi Emily, good to see you here
Emma, how are you guys doing?
where are you in the world? I am on tour
it's a very short tour, this one
we don't like touring in the winter
but we did like a week out cause
we got a tour so we were like
okay fuck it, we'll do it, but
yeah it's nasty out, there's a lot of
we're heading up to New York to Buffalo
soon and it's like four feet of snow
so, not looking forward to that
but we'll see what happens
interesting topic here, Spotify
even say Spotify without laughing
anymore, it's just so ridiculous
the whole thing about Spotify
is just ridiculous, it's like the payment
anyway, so what do you want me to start
It sounds like you did, I thought
it's so funny, it's like cause it's amazing
payment system is trash, I mean
Why is Spotify funny? Okay, Spotify
is funny, here we go, okay so
you have to understand a couple
of things about Spotify, to understand the trashy
payment system, you have to understand
what's going on behind the scenes
and you have to understand a little bit about
the music industry and what
is powerful in the music industry
so, what the labels learned
like when streaming started
CDs and anything physical
that they really needed to do
at this point was own the
music, like own the publishing
Pub became like a big cash grab
for all these labels, they tried
deal, they didn't care about
I signed, it was like they wanted
me to sign my publishing rights to them
they didn't want to sign me
so it was like a big thing and
we had to fight against it, we finally
won but then they really didn't give
us much support because we didn't sign our
publishing to them, so it was
the thing that the labels
learned was that if you own the publishing
you own the revenue from the streaming
basically, so they can make a lot
of money, but they also control the catalog
which can give them leverage
against streaming services, because
when streaming services started
they didn't have much leverage against it, all these
artists owned their own Pub,
we're not going to put these artists on your streaming
service because we own the Pub
so you have to bend to our will
them on your streaming service, but now
they can't do that because a lot of
the big three kind of own a lot of Pub
so they're like, hey if you
want Drake, if you want Taylor Swift
most numbers, then you have to
it down to next to nothing once
the labels get done with it, so that
pennies on the dollar, or
fractions of pennies on the dollar
lower and lower and lower and lower
said, you understand then the
directness with music NFTs and
owning your own Pub and being able
to sell directly to consumer without a third
whatever price you want, you can value
your music at a certain place
the gumption, if you work really hard
if you bring up your community
and start getting that support
and have that value on your
music, and it's not predicated
the revenue stream from the jump
applicable to the percentage
that's left over, so I don't know
if that makes any sense to anyone, but
that's kind of like a little bit
unfucked, people are like, oh
they're going to change, we can make
make them change because they
are going to want their money, so there's
there's only the work around, and the work
around becomes what we do over here
now I'm part of Gallo Music
being the propaganda machine of Gallo
Music right now on my timeline
but that's because I really do believe
in what the platform is doing, especially
when it comes to streaming
streaming over there, they have these
revenue splits that are happening on streaming
their streaming goes to a music token
which gets paid out to the
artist, and right now it's equivalent
to about ten cents per stream
yeah it is insane, so I mean
just to give you a little example with my
Gallo streams, I made the
equivalent in about a month
when it first got implemented
about $1000 in music tokens
taken me over four months
to make on Spotify with my whole entire
that's just in streaming, that doesn't
from NFT sales and things
that are happening over there, so
you know, this is the new
paradigm, and this is why
we need to support this, and when they
open up that platform, I really
implore you all to take a look at it
because I think it's going to be a massive
you at the end there, Emily
but yeah, Gallo music, do you know what's really
you're rugging a little bit
what's really interesting about you
and I think that's what some people need to understand
use tools that you need to do
that you're a touring artist, I've heard you
speak in other spaces where there's been
key industry players such as
booking agents, venues, they
anti-metrics, and they want to see
even if it doesn't translate, we've had that conversation
as well of people into the hundreds of thousands
because it's all kind of passive listening
audience or community base that they've built
much you disagree with the
principle of Spotify and probably share
how it is owned by the three major labels
and that is why our cut is
such a great starter, it's the kind of conversation
I want to have where it's an artist
working out as with touring
and everything, but you're also promoting Gala
maybe if you can touch on that, how
you see Spotify as part of your strategy
if at all, long-term, what
You have to realize, all of these
things are tools in our toolbox
that you latch onto and you
go that way and you say fuck everything else
if you do that, you're fucked
you can't do that as a musician
because there's lots of different moving parts
bringing it in, being able to
buy your new gear, produce
your music, whatever you need to do
it's really good for that
and definitely propagate it
because it is good for that, develop your community
do that, but when you're talking
about if you want to be a touring musician
like you said, those vanity
stand with everybody else because
you can't, I mean it's like
yeah you want to say fuck you to the
man, but you have to say fuck you to the man
but you still have to play ball because
develop a web 3 fan base and be able to
tour on that, there's not enough people
Spotify, at this point Spotify is
campaign for us, for our music
we use it like that, we put our music
up there, we do some promo around
normie people that are on my
Instagram and my other social media
platforms that play into that sort of
algorithm, we tell them about Spotify
we send them over there, whatever
and we start a conversation and they're like
I love your music and I'm obsessed and I'm coming
to your show and I'm wearing your t-shirt and I
just got a tattoo of you and
that's when I'm like okay
I want to introduce you to web 3
you need to come into my community
over here, because this is where
quote on quote and I hate saying this word
because it doesn't, it's not
and I don't mean this in the financial
in my career over here, so
that is, that's where those true
investors, quote on quote, reside
but they're not investors,
NFA, not financial advice
that's where those true fans are and
if you can really cultivate that
look, I'm not saying that
it's easy, I'm not saying it doesn't take a lot
stuff 24 seven, you guys see
me all the time, like I don't take a break
like there's no Sundays off, there's
I understand that this moment
and as I started as the first
female metal musician to mitten spell
on the blockchain, like I knew
that I was going to have to grind
until I get to a certain place
it can kind of like sustain itself
and even then I'm going to still have to grind
but this is the time to grind
because this is the beginning
stages, you always want to
be in on the beginning stages
you guys, it's easier to build
than when there's too many people
and you can't like sift through all
just a couple points there
I think that's a great take Emily
how you're using Spotify as marketing
that's definitely how I've opened my mind to it
the cycle really these days
name and your music in front of people
touring or TikTok then converting
listeners such as Spotify which
is just the standard at the moment
maybe that will change for the better in the future
I guess we'll see and then eventually
Patreon if they're still not comfortable
more about your experience with Gala because
I've not explored Gala that much yet
hear that they do take 40%
of your income which I'm not
yeah do you not think if that is
the case should you not take a stand against
platforms who take 40% of our
income because then it potentially becomes worse in Spotify
okay so they do take a percentage
contract but that's going to change as well
because I think they're doing away
with contracts so that whole
system is going to change
like you have to understand
when they first start they have a lot of VC
investors that plunk a lot
of fucking money into them and they have
to pay that money back they have to pay their investors
back they have to give them dividends they have to give them
returns it's a fucking business
so let's not pretend that
we can sit here and be like you have to give us
I understand we're building the platform
and yes we deserve the bulk of
because we are the ones building it but if
there was no platform there would be
nothing for us to build on so
and if the tech didn't develop
and if the problems weren't solved and if they
couldn't pay their staff to solve the problems
and if they couldn't pay their staff to
internally promote and like
grow us then we wouldn't be doing what
we were doing we wouldn't be doing the numbers
we were doing over there if they didn't
have that so I'm okay with
that's not my percentage so I'm not
going to say that that's my percentage
you can negotiate whatever you want
you just have to go in there and do that
person when you sign onto any
platform and if there's a way to
there are certain aspects that
and we're not going to get away from that
where we're just going to make
100% of the money all the time
of that too you guys but that's just
not reality that's just not how
you don't go to the grocery store
they need to keep their lights on
so they make you pay more
for the food they make you pay a percentage
it just doesn't work that way
place that we can reside with
small percentage so that we can keep
everything functioning properly
and keep our tech in line and also develop
new tech to make you guys more money
so I think there's a fine line and we
artist our job especially
in a burgeoning new ecosystem
understand the platforms understand
what we're doing over here and then
every fucking day and being like this works
this doesn't we need this we don't
developing it with them so that
we get the most out of it as well
think that like how can we build this together
outlook now if people fuck you over
okay they fucked you over, live, learn,
let's try to come into it with a positive
outlook and try to negotiate
I think that's a better way to do it
love that Emily yeah great
I was gonna ask I mean amazing
that you did negotiate on that and
I guess that's definitely
something that's important for artists
it's hard to do especially
to counter your argument that
we do need to work with these
platforms which I completely
all becoming dependent on platforms
I understand they have to pay back
the investors but it ends up becoming the norm
that say it's a 40% platform
where they take the royalty and then
better place than we are in now
if you know anything about web 3 which I'm
sure all of you in this room do
the number one thing in web 3
on an exchange, you should
know about cold wallets, you should know about
self custody. That being said
developing on a platform but
is the end goal and that's what
a lot of people a lot of artists
don't understand that over here
and then the loyalty from the
consumer becomes the platform
what I've been consistently working
I have you know I'm in the gala discord a
lot. I have a lot of fans over there.
I have literally started to move them
discord now. So all of that community
because I want them there. They're now on my
weekly emails from me about all
my shows, about my drops, about this
is your number one priority. Don't get
want the platforms to have
power, don't give them fucking power
rooms and these artists are complaining
oh you know Spotify has the power
and advertised them and said
stream what if you instead of
you got your streaming numbers up on
Spotify then made your own Spotify
on your own website and got your
people to stream only there, dropped
exclusive songs there and only did it
there. Guess what? People would
migrate. It might not be a huge
crowd but you would migrate
people. So you got to start
somewhere and I think that we
have to take accountability.
not want to take accountability.
it takes two to tango. My
grandmother always said it takes two to
tango. It takes two people to fight.
It's not ever one person's
fault. So knowing that, understand
You're touching on such a fantastic
point and this is one of the reasons I love
spaces is it's an opportunity
wider population and especially this
culture where we are trying
to take the reins, try to
of something like self custody
and have that mindset for
musicians and artists to hold that
vital. I would completely agree
collaborating with other platforms
or pruning yourself in multiple
places because you can still
reach people. You can still bring them over
I mean Emily's a fantastic example of that
raving about Gala and I'm looking
at her Spotify with her band
they've already dropped a song and I know that
it all has a ripple effect.
I'd like to touch on and give to the
thank you so much everybody for being here. I see all the
comments and the reposts really appreciated.
that we have with this conversation
is when it comes to the touring aspect
especially having the reaction we've had to our
music, having this really
based, community based on here
I think it's doable to be
not what I want. I would love
especially when it comes to certain songs
it's weird why I'm translating it to that
but sometimes when you have a certain
song you're like oh my god, this
That does immediately take my
mindset into a traditional
How can I blend that? How can I have a Web3
aspect? I kind of want to put that
general point out into the
do you think you can be a touring artist
audience, in the traditional toolkit?
exclusively a Web3 artist
is touring not of interest to you
sometimes the sticking point of
in reality if you do want to tour
if you do want to reach a
room and fill a theatre of
the music scene is so niche
kind of conundrum with it
but yeah we've got Dil here
we've got Chris Giano, I see Treasure up here
Chris Giano you were in the
space earlier, you've been up here for a
minute and you were chatting about
you were the expert advice
but let me throw it to you and I'd love to say hi to Dil as well
I'm more hardcore than probably anyone
I just am trying to maintain
friendships on a mass scale with a bunch
of musicians at the same time
so I do not share my personal opinion
but I definitely talk about
all the different options
I'd say if I had a personal
opinion I would do personally
it's not like me being an
armchair quarterback because I can do it
I would take a mix of what everyone's doing
I'm learning from everyone
I'd say a mix of what you guys are doing
a mix of what Emily's doing, a mix of what
Sam Arriaga's doing with Spotify
I would say it's a mix of all that
and yeah, building your home
on Spotify is not a good idea
building your home on YouTube
of a musician, very rarely
who expects to live off their
they expect to live off their music video
they clearly treat that music video as an ad
music videos are, they're advertisements
they're advertisements for your music
they're really magical because what they do is they marry
your visual, what do you look like
to the audio, to what you sound like
they see you in their mind
your mind does the work and puts you
and then if someone sees a picture of you, they hear you
so that's what's really magical about that
and so I think that's going to be a big part
and Web3 hasn't even broached that
hasn't even really touched music videos at all
not at all, we've done it a little bit
but it hasn't really been a lot of interest
I would take a little bit of all of them
but never try to build my farm
on one land but the problem there
is that that spreads you out time wise
on Spotify, for example if you're on Spotify
if you're on YouTube, if you're on TikTok
and you're doing it part time, you have to compete
with everyone else who's doing it full time
so if I'm doing TikTok part time
I'm competing with other kids who are making it their full time job
other musicians who are making it their full time energy
so it's almost like spreading yourself out
on all of these right now
the problem is no one wants to
not no one but a majority
of people don't want to do the work
and don't want to put in the two years of time
it's going to take them to establish
authentic connection with their audience
on any platform and they don't want to
be told that, they don't want to be told
okay put in the work, find a day job
that pays you, that doesn't stop you
and do that for a couple of years
and do it part time and build it up
and do it responsibly, people don't want that
they want a magic bullet, they want the quick answer
they were told that they could put their music
into Spotify and it would pop out
at the end of a millionaire
they'd pop out a movie star
and go to the Grammys and all this stuff
so someone out there, whether it's
the music industry or these
the culture of people that are
selling products to the musicians
but they're lying to them
so when I first got into this space
label services company and their plan was
and this studio time and this type of stuff
total grift, it was a grift on musicians
to essentially drain the money
out of the musicians based on their dream
of making it and they were like we have the
industry executives and we'll connect you
and all this stuff, that's
the problem, that's who's going out and lying
to these people, there is a whole
hustle culture of quote on quote
producers and that's who we're having a debate with right now
that's who we're having this fight with
you don't know music theory, you don't know anything about
music or care about the social
or anthropological connection
between spirits that happens when music
is played, they don't care about that
they're business people, they care about
their bottom line and so their business now
is to get a bunch of musicians
they see that there's a surplus and over
supply of musicians and their job
is to drain the liquidity out of that
just like it's Gibson's job and
it's Zildjian's job and it's
and these amplifiers way cheaper
they've been making money off
of us for a very, very long time
and that money is bigger than any
records we could sell so I think
there's a big industry around capitalizing on
us and once people realize that
they can kind of break that and be like
oh is this person trying to help my career
or are they trying to sell me into some kind of sales funnel
in which artists are numbers
and which artists are just data on a spreadsheet
that can be capitalized on later
and cast in for some kind of big
you know thing so I think it's right now
it's about doing the stuff that
works for you that you can do on a daily basis
but also realizing like if people
on Twitter like you, you're not
going to get that same kind of
interaction on other places
Do you know what I'm getting from
this conversation? I would also love
to hear about Josh and Dill's podcast
because that was the alpha when we came into the space
to these like general opinions
music NFTs, the answer is kind of
drawing your audience to you
whether you're using either of those or you have
super strong views on either of
and watch your platform grow
make sure you are your own platform
whatever it is, like even on my Patreon
after launching like the end of last year
and the first thing I'm doing is bringing
Discord, to my mailing list, even though
only the artists, like for artists
That's called inbound marketing, Emma, that's like
inbound marketing we call it inbound marketing and that's
what we're doing here is you go out, like Emily said
on Spotify and everyone who sees you on Spotify the
funnel leads back to Web3, this is the end of your
funnel, like someone said last night
like this is the new end of your funnel and so it's
smart, focus on the end of your funnel first
get that solid, if you can get 20 people in Web3
you're buying your stuff, like you're ready to
start branching out there and then start
meeting new people when you bring them in here and then as
long as the funnel's good and like they're able
to come into your ecosystem, they know exactly where to buy
they can go to your link tree, all that stuff
but that stuff needs to be set up, otherwise
like when I blew up on Vine, I wish
I had all this stuff set up, I wish there was a way
for people to give me money, they were like
a quarter million people every day watching my stuff
being like how come he's the part you and I'm like
I did a Kickstarter eventually, you know
and raised $5,000 on an album in literally
the second I was like okay I guess I guess
a Kickstarter for an album, they were like okay here
so it's that, it's like you just, you need to
build that audience first and then you give them
uh, you have to build the funnel first
and then build the audience versus before it was build the
audience and figure out the funnel as you go along
right, that's it, so we're doing it backwards
Mr. Josh and Dil, did you
get into any of this territory in your
alpha earlier, Dil, over to you
we got into this conversation
music without talking about streaming
if anything, this last week or
two has proved that, you're not
gonna have this discussion without someone
coming out, the wood works, and then they're gonna say
well why don't you just put it on Spotify
new because that's what people were saying
Clubhouse, same kind of thing
have to say, the simple way to put it
you know, they're not perfect for
artists, but they're both great
your music so that people can easily
not great for getting people to
buy your products or generate
revenue, especially in the early
people to buy your products and generate
revenue in the early stages
but they're pretty bad for getting people
to go listen to your music in a way
easy for anybody, forget web3
for anybody to go listen to a song
right, if it's only on the blockchain
then most likely your grandma
can't go listen to it, or at least
won't, but guess what, plenty
of grandmas out there have Spotify or
YouTube, or some other site
where they can easily go listen to any
song right, so that still
applies widely, I personally
like to put my music on Spotify
I see it as actually some utility
for the collectors in the community, like
this is easy to access, you can go listen
you can check it out on Spotify
of blowing up and going viral
that shouldn't be your only goal
your only way to make revenue
is going to blow up, and you're going to go viral
on Spotify, that's pretty
unsustainable, it's tough to do
that consistently, and even if you do it
once, like doing that once doesn't
mean all of a sudden you're
you could easily have a TikTok
blow up and get a million streams on a song
and it's not going to make you
life changing money, that happens
a lot too, there's a lot of cases
artists should be using both
I personally just uploaded
two songs for release this month
yesterday, they're coming out on Spotify
at this point, I'm not trying to
I can't manage to put every
song that I want to put out as an NFT
to my Spotify release schedule
so I've just learned over the years, if I want to
do things when they make sense
so yeah, I'm putting out music on Spotify
I have my own coin, which we're actually
and the NFTs to kind of tie it together
even more closely with a reward
I think there's cool use cases here
and I definitely understand why people
are frustrated with Spotify
and I think it goes back to what Cristiano was saying
Spotify is closer to marketing
solid revenue stream, it's like that
Can you explain for those who don't know about how
you know, you've managed to set up
Dil has it where you can buy his Dil coin on Spotify
and I always shout you out Dil on that because I think that's
so badass and I think you're literally
one of the only people I know that actually is doing it
correctly, like that is exactly
how we should be doing it, Spotify is a marketing platform
it's an advertising platform
advertise your stuff, sell your merch on there
sell your coins, sell your NFTs
anyone else who knows it because
they just announced on X that
they're launching a new video platform here
that's integrated with Shopify
so if you figure out how to put your NFTs up there
and sell your NFTs through Shopify, sell your coins,
sell your merch, you can have video streams
just like you have spaces and you have people watching you
and then you're like hey, go buy the NFT
so he's literally trying to take out
well that is actually really simple
everybody, it's actually very
not complicated, I went on
an item which is buying in Dil coin
which then we have a way to clear
that on the back end, we basically collect
their ETH address and then make the buy for them
people think, you know, it's my business
we're letting people buy something doesn't mean
it has to be all on chain automatically
so look, if you have an NFT for sale
and you want to make a credit card
checkout, go make a Shopify
and put a hundred dollars
as the price and if your NFT
is under a hundred dollars
or at least close to there, you might
have to update the price every once in a while
but like if people want to buy with the credit card, you just
put it on your website, let them buy
and you can take care of the rest, there's nothing wrong with that
you can actually join the community and learn about how to get a wallet
not do that immediately, they might take
a week or two, yes, that's fine
right, it's not a big deal
you can still hold it for them
yeah, you can hold it for them, and so anyway
Spotify merch integration
which allows you to put any Shopify item
so I just put the Dil coin there
so people can actually see that
on Spotify, but like that
brings zero people to buy it
no one's buying from there, maybe
in the bull market or something, like
that's the thing, if something went
viral and all of a sudden people
were coming to my page because they heard about Dil
crypto rich and they were all crypto
people, then there would maybe
be something happening, but like
that's like a small chance, it's way more
likely that I'd join a Twitter space and
tell people to buy some Dil coin
well that's because you're doing calls to action
right, but what I remember we talked to
was chilling at your house, and I was like
what if you did call to action at the end of one of your songs
being like, yo, go to that Spotify
and buy that Dil coin, do you know what I mean
I think sales might go up, because call to action
when I used to advise for YouTubers
and they would be like, how do I get my YouTube channel up
how do I do, and I was like, you're doing no calls to action
you're just doing your video and that's it, and you're expecting people to
subscribe to you without being told to
and that's why like comment and subscribe guys, like that
became a meme, because that is
good advice, that's what everyone has to
do, that's the prerequisite call to action
you need to call to action in your marketing
anything you do, otherwise it's on you, it's not
so it's weird to do it in music, no one's ever
done it in music, it's weird to do it, but it's like maybe
we could figure out a way to do it without it being gauche
yeah man, I appreciate that
shout out, I mean there's a lot of cool things
is definitely a great way to get your music
out there, and you know, without
going too much into it, when I created
am executing on this idea I've had
which is like, what if we
can reward our community for going to stream
on Spotify, because there's good
streaming sites that just simply don't exist
in web 3, like you have no chance
and you know, getting a millions
of people to hear your music
on any of these web 3 sites, at least not
right now, maybe in the future
that'll be possible, but right now
if you were to get your core audience
to go stream on Spotify, you're
eventually going to get enough streams to
start impacting the algorithm, like
my GM song is a good example
that's forming, right, I think it's
streams right now, let's see
44k streams right now, which isn't
that many, but once that hits
like here's the thing, I told Josh
this on the podcast, like my
experience is when you hit like 100k or
a million, that's when the algorithm
really starts to activate,
so it's taken me a couple years to get
GM where it is, just telling
people to stream it, but someone's at
50k and then it's going to hit 100k
and that's starting to get up there, and
once it hits a mil, who knows
there actually is a lot of
income to be made from that,
but it may take you several years to get there
like my song Jordan Belford that's
at almost 200 million streams,
like took two years to get
anywhere near it, it's been almost a decade
or it's been basically a decade since
the song came out, so like
to get like whatever, 50,
next 5 years to get to like 200
is like long tail revenue, so like
right now, don't think about how
much you're going to make next month from Spotify
two years maybe you could be getting like
or something, or whatever it is
it's not going to be a ton of money short term
make a lot of money off Spotify, and
we have examples of that, like
look at Sammy Ariaga, you don't think
he's killing it on Spotify right now
because of how his TikToks
and everything's are going over there
like that's a great example in our
so I do think that's important, like
work on Spotify, like put your stuff out
there, think of a way to tie
it together, like with Dilcoin we're basically
a reward system, so we're
taking all the data from the DSPs, the
distributors, you know that we get on the
back end and using those streams to
pay Dilcoin rewards to our
community, so it's a way that we're
tying together Web2 and Web3
using the data we have that's
available permissionless, we don't
need to integrate with Spotify, we have that data
and we're connecting it to the coin
and so that's what I think
is a big potential too, let's figure
out how we can get this community to be
then they're going to be the core audience
that activates the algorithm
and I'm hoping there's going to be like a flywheel
effect, you know if I add
a million monthly listeners, some
percentage of them will check
some of them will become music NFT
collectors, some of them will come
in the bull market, and they're going to
and all of a sudden it's going to become relevant
for them, like it's unlikely that someone
stumbles on my page right now
to buy something, but in the bull
market when everyone's talking about NFTs
like people will just come to your page and
it's all about timing too, and
understanding, you know maybe one day
music fans understand this stuff
and people really do go out there
and take their money and look for
upcoming artists to buy into,
I mean that's always been one of the dreams for me
is just like hey, I remember
I'm sure Cristiano knows this
too, and I'm sure everyone does, it's like
you see an upcoming artist on TikTok
or whatever it is, and they're like man
that person's so good, I think
the song's going to blow up, I wish I
could buy into it somehow,
like that's what originally
Have you heard about NFTs?
That's what originally got me excited
my music, but I also love
the idea of hearing an amazing
Emma or any of the other amazing
artists in this room and saying, you know what
I could buy a piece of that
and I think they're going to be huge
and that's going to make value for
not just me but for them too, so that's
what originally got me excited about this stuff
speaks to me, so forget what everybody
else is saying, K money, all these
that, what's exciting for me
is supporting musicians and the
idea that that could be valuable
all that stuff, still cool to me
so I think there's other people out
Great point man, I will get
to these hands, I really want to delve into
about on the podcast on Jim Good Music
music NFT podcast which will be out in
Bill was talking about how he
wants to see more support
Bill can you delve into that a little bit more?
I mean yeah, I think in web 3
there's not enough support
I think that's been the problem
from the beginning. Like if we look
at web 3 as a whole, we need
to capture more of the web 3 market.
1% from the outside let's say
So that's one of the reasons I
dropped Dilcoin 2. I'm one of the
only musicians available on Uniswap
which is the biggest platform for trading
one way I think about it. There's more we can do
with music NFTs as well. I'm obviously
and super bullish on them.
And I think we really need to just get more
collectors who are in it to support
And I think what me and Josh really talked about
established fine art market.
It's been around for a long time.
There's hundreds of millions, billions of
dollars of art in the fine art market.
comparable thing is like music
collectibles like vinyl records and
stuff like that. And it's just
much smaller than the fine art market.
in mind. Music as collectibles
is definitely a smaller market
in general than the overall
fine art market. And that's
probably why you see artists
in web 3 that are doing traditional
There's a lot bigger numbers
associated with them. There's probably a
that don't do music, not musicians,
that are making a living off of web
3 compared to how many musicians
are able to make a living off web 3.
So I don't know the solution to that,
but I do think we need to continue onboarding
more people within web 3.
I love onboarding people from outside too.
We should do both, but if we could just
get more collectors that are
already here to support music,
I think that's a huge opportunity.
I would be curious to know what the music
I wonder how you would even find that out.
Emma, seeing as you're my
wonderful co-hosts, let's get
Cool, yeah. I feel like Emily will be
responding to some stuff as well.
But yeah, love that, Dil.
Some great points. I think my only
that be the reason that we're on
socials, that's where I kind
of like am more resistant
the ratio of people going
viral is really, really small.
Sami Ariaga as an example
He now looks like Sami's got a professional
team and everything and he's
killing it and he's built up to that
and is doing incredible content.
if that's a realistic business model
to promote to wider artists
of like you could have a video
that goes viral, you could have this one
like once in a lifetime thing happen to you.
through posting across socials
for so many years now, my metrics
ten thousand views and actually some
if it resonates with someone it often
really resonates with them
follow through, they tend to
like start engaging with me more
Ideally generate an income from that
is so much more valuable than
as being your aim of generating
just like throwing stuff at the wall
until something sticks. I try and be really
thoughtful with what I'm putting out
and maybe not have, like having a viral
video isn't in my mind's eye
content that if a new person
is landing on my page and they
find me for the first time, something that I wouldn't be
like, oh damn, this is the video
they're getting their first impression of me on
so I kind of take slight umbrage with
virality through socials as
being the model that our students
embrace but I definitely understand that when it works
it really works and who wouldn't want
or something like that to happen
some great momentum in your career
overall or in your community.
on that, like I've been thinking about putting out some
Instagram, you know, like promoting some
the first thing I'm going to do is spend like
that anyone that does come through
I don't miss anyone and I can
directly engage with them and build a
relationship rather than having a spike
really knowing that audience, not having a relationship
with them, not being able to
report where they actually do want to take action
and not just give a quick like
hear you and I really enjoyed
bringing, I'm very much looking
forward to the Savage podcast
we'll throw it back to Dil but I did, I feel like
Emily might have touched on some stuff
but let's go. Well I'll just quickly say
that I agree with you, I think
that's totally right, like
you don't have to be going for a viral
video either, like I don't
know what I'm doing on reels, like
my reels don't get a lot of views
but I do know that I want to
stay true to like doing my music, like
I don't want to just make random stuff
like, yeah, I mean on some level
it's like if you keep making that
curated content for your community
that community grows, right
and I think we see that with a lot of the artists
it's like you keep making the stuff that your community
loves and then it gets to that
level where like, yeah, the content
the more the better, I mean
long term, right, but as long as it's curated
to the style you like, that's kind of how
I see it, but yeah, let's go to Emily.
comment on the slow burn,
quick fire sort of thing, the virality
thing, like I'm a very big
I just keep on doing things
in a repetitive process, I'm
consistency, is the number
one thing that I think that
it works across platforms, consistency
either one of them because I didn't want to sign
course of a year after really focusing
bringing my Web 3 audience to
Spotify play counts, we ended the year
monthly listeners over a year
so if we can double it again to 160,000
next year, and then after that
you know, half a million and then
on up and up and up, like
that's kind of the goal and the aim
but it all comes down to, and I
love what you were saying, Dil, I love that
term that you use the funnel, the
funnel, it's all about the fucking funnel
guys, like what is your funnel?
totally believe about posting
across platforms, you can post the
same fucking content everywhere
it doesn't have to be different content
in different places, I post the same
shit all the time, I repost
stuff, I posted a year ago
I don't care, like it's, you know
just reuse content, repost
if you don't have time to make content
if you're busy, I'm on tour, I don't
have time to make content all the time, I'm
busy like doing 3 hours of makeup and going
on stage and performing and talking to my fans
I don't have time to just do viral
videos every day, like come on, let's
get real, so like repost some shit
viral on all the platforms
because you're going to have different communities
are different than your Twitter
people, your Twitter people are different than
your TikTok people, your TikTok people
are, now they might cross-pollinate
at times, but essentially
there's different communities that build
on different platforms, same
have my gala stuff that I do, I'm
very prevalent over there, but I've also
dropped on Avax, I've also dropped
on OpenSea, I've also dropped on
Sound, I'm on 9 different
I don't just drop on one platform, there's
different communities that live
on different places, there's different
communities with different coins
you know, like the more you learn
the more you know, the more you can
funnel it to a focus point
of the place that you are receiving
for example, I have my funnel
with my Spotify and all the bullshit in Web2
it funnels down to my Web3
different platforms there, that funnels
down to my gala community, because
over here in Web3 is gala
so that's my funnel, that's
how I work it, so what is
yours, so figure out your funnel
to those places in your funnel
reuse and recycle content
genius thing, this whole content creation
shit, you don't have to be that smart to do it
you just have to be consistent
as artists, I love what you said
I can't hear anybody, so I'm going to
leave the stage and come back up
but I think great take on
recycling content, something I learned
as well as what you released on Spotify
yet, so I've released so much
fortunate that I've released
everything independently, so I have
all the rights to that, so I have the freedom to
a privilege every artist has
and I learned actually, oh wow
I can kind of start again by releasing
and at first I was like well is this
the right thing to do, but at the end of the day
when you enter Web3 it's almost like you start
point I'm trying to make with this is that
writing songs because that
even if you release on the
wrong platform or whatever you still
have the freedom to do what you want with it
and try again somewhere else
so I really wanted to add to that
I want, like I see Christiana Siedel
just briefly on the songs because this
is a space hopefully for the community
been in such a creative flow
in January and just songs pouring
out of me, collaborations
it's such a reminder and I was kind
of reminded at the start of this year
as an artist, I want to have
the catalogue, I want to have the music
and that's how I communicate
with the world around me, so if anyone
else needs that little reminder
Josh I love you for saying that because it's
if you're an artist and you're up here
if you're creative, whatever your thing is
whatever your outlet is, if it's like
going out into nature, just make sure
you're doing some of that all the time
still don't have anything
It's hard though isn't it, because like when you write
a song, I mean that's not instant income
and you've got to make sure you do
instant income that gets you to
that longevity, but that's the thing
if you don't have the songs
and you don't keep writing songs
then you're going to hit a wall eventually
and plateau, so it's really important to really take the time
Keeping up your skill set, like get
better at whatever your thing is
Yeah and that's the thing if you do
stop songwriting when you get back at it
it's almost like you're starting again
and that's kind of the position
I'm in at the moment, I haven't written
many songs on my own for a while
climbing up that hill at the moment
and that means jumping off spaces
which kind of is frustrating
because I do want to be out there and show up as much
as possible, but we're only
one person at the end of the day and only can do so much
that has to be prioritised
more than anything else, but of course
keep some space for the marketing and showing
and running that side of things too
main question really, and it's always
Christiano, over to your hand
For sure, also I love how you said
we are only one person, that's great
Dil was saying, the royal
So yeah, what Dil was saying
what he's built is so brilliant
because I don't even know if this is part of your
plan Dil, but I think what's great is that right now
you've built a way to mine your coin
but right now that's incentivising you
and Spotify, because you're sending people Spotify
but if you decide that you pick a platform
that you want to be a winner here, and you're like
this is the one I'm streaming on, and I'm going to
choose this platform, I like the way they pay me royalties
or whatever, I like the cut
they cut me in on Core or the business
they gave me back-end participation
whatever, someone came and
did it right, and if you were like
now I can incentivise people to stream there
like what you've built is you've built a mining system
where there's people that are going to be Dil miners
and whether they like music or not
it doesn't even matter, they can be just listening
to it and just like, alright cool, I'm mining this
token and I'm getting paid, it could just be a financial
incentive for them, but you've allowed yourself
now to be, to have another
product, so there's people who like your
music with us and your music, and there's people who
maybe just like coins, and they like mining coins
and they think it's a cool new way to mine coins
by listening to your music, so you can send them
anywhere, and then in terms of the
so that's really powerful, so congratulations to you
on building that, and that's like, you're definitely
a big inspiration on everything that I hope to build
because it's like, you've been here for a while
man, you've sussed it out, and I love talking
to Dil and he'll be like, nah, don't even waste your
time on that, it's so great, I'm like, thank you so
much for saving me time Brad, and then in terms
of the virality thing, I think
it's really about, you know, as someone
who like literally got paid for 15 years
to go viral and write a viral ad agency, I've gone
you can do it repeatedly, it's just understanding
what viral means, so viral means
basically you have, you know,
your paid reach, right, that's how
you have your organic reach, that's how many followers
you have, that's how many people you can usually reach with your posts
right, and then let's say you were to run that
which also Emma, I don't suggest doing it
on Instagram, it's a trap, they will steal your money
they still own a lot of our money, so
but yeah, I'll talk to you later
I know, I'm mainly on TikTok to be honest
but yeah, IG and Facebook is notorious
they got sued, class action lawsuit for stealing
everyone's money, the bots
eat up all your clicks, and then
basically with virality, you have
like, you know, what you have, your followers
you have your paid reach, that's what you pay for
and then anything above that is called organic reach
anytime someone new finds out
about you, are any of you guys paying for advertising?
No, is your follower count going up?
Yes, you're all viral, congratulations
give yourselves a round of applause, you've
done it, you've done it, you've all made it
okay, so it's like if anyone's talking about
you, if someone's sharing your music, if you're
getting more progress each day
you're going viral, alright, and it's
just understanding how big the segmentation
of people that you're trying to go viral within
and you have 150 fans here
you're doing a great job, okay, so
it's like, it's really about that and
what we're talking about, about bringing in a bigger
you know, market segmentation of Web 3,
I couldn't agree more with what Dil said, it's going to be way
Web 3 people, because you know
you wouldn't believe how many times when I was hosting the Pepe
spaces, how many times a day, probably 5 or 6
times a day, I would get pitched music
NFTs, like someone would invent it on the space
dude, like you know what you should do, you should put your music
on NFT, dude, like has anyone done that?
It was like that kind of conversation
multiple times a day, okay, for
months, and it made me realize how
much work we have to do, and we're all focused
on you know, it's onboard Web 2, but it's like
we don't necessarily need to, we need to
these people speak our language, and we speak
right, and so we can be like GM, we can be
like Wagmu, all these things, right,
other people don't know what the hell we're talking about
so we speak our own secret language, and
that's good, that's better
and so I think it's really about
going viral, like Emily said, it's about consistency,
it's about, it's not about going viral
because you're going to go viral and then you're going to be
addicted to like, how can I beat that first one
and it's never going to be as big and feel as good as your
first one, so you're going to end up chasing the dragon
and you get into addiction, and you get into all
types of crazy stuff, so I wouldn't
suggest anyone trying to go viral like that
like, where you get too big, because
what if you don't have a sales funnel, and what if you don't
have ways to get money from that audience, so the best
thing you can do is build your business
right, build a small business like
say 20, 25 people here who like
to support you, and if that scales
and if that's going well and you can service them and they're happy
and do that for a couple months, maybe don't quit
your day job just yet, and then
once that's there, right, and established,
now go start marketing your business
but if you start marketing yourself
as a musician, and you don't have a way for people to
give you money, you're not a business, you're a potential
business, and you're marketing a potential
business that doesn't have any kind of sales funnel
to get the money to you, alright, so
you have to set up the way for them to get the money to you
first, and then you go out and
promote it, because why would you go
try to get people in your store if you didn't have any way
to transact their credit cards
you know, if you didn't have any way to
give you money and you give them goods, you wouldn't
open the store yet, right, so it's that
it's like, figure that out, which is
it can be NFTs, it can be tokens for you,
it can be whatever you want, it can be a
Fiat, it can be on Shopify, you can go on
around spaces and play it for people, and be like, hey,
it's available in Bandcamp, you'll be like the one person
who's not selling NFTs, and you'll stand out,
you know what I mean, so it's just like, any
way you can set up your business, set it up, and
then go promote it, then go scale it, but
don't scale it before you have a way to
accept money, that's not going to be
I mean, yeah, if you want to sell your
music on Bandcamp, get ready to
how you should do music NFTs,
but anyway, that's why we have
Spotify, that's why we have
so that anybody can just easily go
or whatever, right, and there's
levels to it if you want to put more in, but
Bandcamp, or Patreon, or whatever
that's going to make it easier for people to
just easily sell their music.
But yeah, I wanted to talk about
token to incentivize listening, like
yeah, that can be for any app, right,
and the Dil app is going to have a section
where you can just play songs and earn tokens,
part of the idea here is we want to bring
where we have potential to reach
more listeners, right, so I
always thought it's better
if we get people to go stream on Spotify,
or Tidal, or whatever site
you want to get them to stream on,
at least there's going to be potential for more
organic reach, like you were just talking about
Christiano, right, because unfortunately
right now, if someone goes and listens
on OpenSea, or listens in
their MetaMask, or any Web3
application, there's no organic reach
that's going to result from that, OpenSea doesn't
it's advantageous to have people
yeah, so you can direct that however you
want, if a new platform comes out, it's
as simple as making a budget and
saying, look, now this platform's
going to have a 200% bonus
for the next three months, right,
you can easily plan that out in the
algorithm, because what's behind
this is ultimately a reward
system that's going to connect the amount
of plays to the amount of coins as a
reward, so you want to give a bonus
for a new upcoming Web3 platform,
you up the reward, maybe you
make them go buy, you know, you make them
go buy 10 million dill coin,
so they contribute to dill coin,
and then that contributes to
upping their reward for their platform.
You know what, Dil, like, you have made
point there, which is about
whether you agree with Spotify
or Music NFTs, or whatever,
so many of the comments here have been like, use both,
make a toolset, like, do what you have to do
to get your music out, but whether you really
are aligned on one side or the other,
reach that you need to build
an audience, unless you're happy
the doors, and coming off of Twitter,
coming off of the platform you're on right now,
that is kind of what we're
getting at here, is we have
built a Music NFT community
an audience and a collector base
of the largest Web2 platforms
that there is, and that is down to the
organic reach that we have through spaces,
down to the organic reach that we
so really what we're saying is if you extend
that to your actual music,
you have an opportunity to
you're kind of still in the Spotify
we've established we don't agree
and I mean, Emily opened the space
she was hating on Spotify, hating
and then obviously sharing that
in order to be attractive
the tours that she's consistently doing,
but if you're using Twitter
and if that is how you've cultivated
your audience for Music NFTs
or just to funnel people to Spotify
to your mailing list, you are still
using the exact same model
which is reaching an organic audience
and I kind of think you've
point there of if you want
to keep growing your audience,
most people at this stage aren't
going to be shutting the doors
and coming off of Twitter or coming off of
conversation to take place
and my artifacts community, I still
want to shout out about what we're doing. I still want to
what we've built and what we are
and for that to happen I definitely need to be using
this platform. I want to be
funneling into the traditional
mailing list. I love that we
opened the space with those things as well
the direction, the funnel
for all of this. So again
ground where no matter what
side you're on, as long as you are funneling
a bit of kit that you own
your mailing list, your Discord
pull a rug out from under you. We see
people all the time lose their Twitter accounts
and they've built a freaking giant audience
So I love that we're taking these
no matter which side you're on.
lurking down there. You join the
Emily, I will throw it to you. I would love to say
hi to V, because I know you feel strongly about this.
quick, I just wanted to say
we have to realize that we
don't have very much control over
rely on platforms and stuff
is discoverability. That is
the number one reason why we're
on Twitter, we're on anywhere.
We need people to discover us.
free every day? Yeah, exactly.
find you, to hear you, to
The discoverability factor is
huge, we need the platforms for
ever since I was really little, he said
remember the most important
thing to know about yourself is to know what you're
weak at. Your weakest, weakest things.
Because those are the things that
you have to either improve
or you have to find somebody that
can do those things better than you can
literally what my father, that was
the number one thing my father always told me.
that we have to look at when we look at these
platforms. What is the weakest thing
we have? It's the discoverability.
So that's what we're finding in these platforms.
Just realize that. There's going to be a
fee for that. We're going to have to pay
for that in some way. Do we have to pay
our first born? No, we should not
have to. There should be a fair way
can't get everything for free.
Just realize that. Okay, I'll stop.
I like what Emily said about recycling
content, putting out so much stuff.
I do that type of stuff too.
But I feel like that's kind of like
the new game of Reels and
TikTok and stuff. You totally
don't have to play that game.
Like what Emma was saying.
You don't have to be all about
that. I've also seen people
that put out a video once
And you can be really successful with that too.
there's different ways to play that side
of it. But I tend to just
see that as being, you know,
nowadays it's like you post, I do the same thing
as Emily. I post on every platform.
I upload the same video to Reel TikTok
and there's just many ways
Just throw the mic to Violeta
howdy doody, how are you doing?
caught from today's conversation? What are your
Do you want to rug us all?
Sorry, I was struggling here to unmute.
posting it on every platform
at the same time. Oh my god, you're such a
You know what, let me just give you
I'm glad that you still want to hear my opinion.
I feel like everyone's fed up with it
with my opinion. No, of course.
like everyone knows what I think
and I always come in with
and everyone's kind of bored
of it. Maybe I'm bored of it myself
kind of like a TikTok thing
miming to my own song, it's a new
Well, one thing I noticed
times with the sound off.
Should we be worried? I don't know.
It's kind of like, it's very explanatory
for artists to do content
that's entertaining beyond the music.
It means you have to put yourself
yourself the product instead
actually being the product.
I've spent 25 years of my life
my parents bought me a piano for
and paid for piano lessons
I think that's frustrating as fuck
bringing it up because it
literally just happened and I had the
If you're okay with that,
are just like, I'll do what I gotta do
as long as I can sell my music, that's fine.
I'm also kind of okay with it
different to the camera, looking sweet
That seriously makes me sick.
I've acted in movies and shit
It's a completely different
I think there's a difference.
You're basically drawing the line of there's a certain
style of content that you
can't stomach but at the end of the day
a web2 platform. We still
post a little tweet your image every day.
I would disagree with you. I would say
your music is not the product.
I'd say the story behind your music is
is be able to communicate that
story with your TikToks. A funny
dancer is not going to do that.
I think you being able to find a niche
that works for you, that is authentic
to you, is what you need to figure out
for a TikTok. I can't wait to see you
doing a silly dance, by the way.
I'm going to back you up here.
that is your absolute superpower of
you constantly tell your story.
it's fine for you to post a silly video
because you're actually incredible
I know you won't like that term, but
the whole point of that is you are incredible
That is what is at the heart
of a lot of communicating on socials.
you don't want to know, but you're very good at it.
I put a lot of effort into it.
or tell me what my product
As much as people may think
this or that, no. That is my
from time to time to do a funny thing.
It's not a big deal at all.
because the content that we're talking about,
and yes, I agree, what we're doing here right now
The reason why I really love Twitter
is because it's all about conversating,
that's very much up my alley.
TikTok and I don't like Instagram
is because it's very one-directional.
I'm behind the screen, performing,
honest and of course I know
that sometimes we need to do that stuff
that maybe musicians really wouldn't
do that stuff. You just do it in a different form.
I do, but at the same time I feel like
the conversation is always about
content. It's always like,
you have to be on every single platform
and present on this, on that.
is that sometimes finding
that niche will do you better
than trying to be omnipresent and
really exhaust your resources and creativity.
That was the bottom point that I wanted
Yeah, I definitely agree.
I think you're doing exactly that.
I agree with Dil when he said
we have so much fertile territory
need to conquer in terms of people.
And we've already done it
partially with the community
that we've built in the past two years.
that can be done and I feel like
when we have a big enough community
it's just like a very different kind,
very uncomfortable, unusual way
of creating content and marketing yourself
on Twitter than it is on TikTok, right?
None of us are really familiar with it.
cultivate what we have here and expand it.
And I think once you have a huge community
here, it's going to be so much easier
to leverage your other platforms.
Sorry, leverage them for other platforms.
And I think you actually,
you, well, music is a performing
art inherently, like performing
thousands of years before
recorded music, right? So it's like
inherently a performance art and of course
V, you know that because you're going around
performing all over the world.
I feel like you just need someone
to like, maybe you hate making
the TikToks, but like all you
of you performing at any show
with a good angle, right?
And then someone needs to just go
and go on auto captions on
CapCut and put the captions on it and upload
to your Instagram, like and
Reels and TikTok or whatever.
Like maybe you just hate the process
of doing that video editing.
I think you're working on that for a bunch of people.
you already have the content.
You just need someone to like
do that extra step of like recording it
and uploading it to Instagram because like
for sure if you recorded every show
that you did and made one Instagram
and uploaded it throughout the last
couple of years, for sure one of them would
at least get a little bit
of views, maybe, you know, 50k,
And you could easily mention something
But I personally, I don't love editing
videos and stuff like that. That's what gets me too.
It's like if we could all just have
video editors to follow us around
and do all of the work, then
it would be great. But yeah, V,
it just needs to be recorded.
I like that. I'm recording
like 20 hours of filming.
The letter is the queen of
Why not just adapting that to
that on TikTok and actually that's better than
GM tweets because you can actually
apply your music to the video.
Well, one thing I don't understand really
following on Twitter from like
10,000 to 70,000, you know,
like very organically and
like whenever there's gonna be,
for me personally, I'm just speaking for myself right now.
Like not for anybody else.
You know, things have worked
I did them. They've worked for me.
so I don't, you know, I'm a very
big proponent of that. Like be a big
fish in a small pond. Like it's just
gonna be easier. Like you may
that can be your first, like your funnel
like Emily was saying earlier, you know,
I really like the funnel conversation.
Your funnel doesn't need to be
the ocean. Your funnel can
and conquer that and then
go to a bigger puddle and then maybe
go to a little lake, you know, and then
try with the ocean. You know, it's like
you can do that and I feel like
you know, we've only been
a couple of years and think about how
much time we spent in Web2 and
these tools were available to us
and we still haven't managed to nail
it. And look how much we've grown
in Web2 and only in Web3 in
only two years focusing on
the little pond. It's changed
our lives, you know, so I
really try to think practically here.
Like what's more convenient for my ROI?
so I can survive and build a community
and make enough money to live
long term because when I have a
little money and when I have a community
I can go further and I can keep surviving
basically I don't think anyone
questions how you're building
and it's absolutely phenomenal
are sticking to it and it's like
you are completely paving the way
for so many of us. You're an absolute
there are still a lot of us out here
it kind of touches on what Dil just said
of like music as a performing art
and I know we've had this conversation before
of like the touring musician
that if you ask most musicians
out there what they dream
of for their music is for as many people
that's not to say that's not your dream or is your dream
but that's just the facts
a lot of people when they have
a special song or it just
resonates they want as many people to hear it as possible
in this moment and I know we all believe
I don't think it's wrong for
play the game to get the booking
agent to be doing the touring and it
not to come down to an ROI
of Success in Web3 being able
to do this and being able to plan
my first community event in August
and be travelling the world
also performing and connecting
only within the Web3 model
but I definitely understand
everything and Emily was up here
as another product of that model
she's across 9 different Web3
I don't think anyone should be told what's the right way
because there isn't a right way
agenda and I push what I think
is the right way for me because
that my way is the right way
because I want them to be sold
for me because it's been proven
I have proof, physical proof
that is right and that it works
traditional narrative, I didn't feel comfortable there
the way I do it because what if they
don't feel comfortable in this narrative
the music people should really
and write a recipe and instructions
on how to do it and I really
think this is a disease that we got
from music industry people because
they tend to apply one formula to
every single artist they manage
or they work with and that's
I really think there isn't
what you want, you can do whatever you want
yeah you would be really great
at it, Cristiano tells me all the time, you'd be great
at YouTube and I'm like okay
I'm happy you believe in me but
I don't think I would because I hate it
I wouldn't be good at it, I would get tired
of it, I wouldn't be consistent and
I drop it and those are all ingredients
that I think people that work so hard
need to love what they're doing
in order to do it well especially
because you're putting yourself
your personality, your art, your name
on the line and in the spotlight
so that's all I want to say
even saying it's just for you but
in general it's like maybe
we could use the community to help
he could- Yeah that's where I was getting at
that's where my hand was at
Edit them and put a caption on it
Let me offer man, come on
I don't know that- Don't give him my gift for me
Sorry- He just unwrapped it and was like
Yeah, so what I was trying
to say was that, exactly that
was that I have shot like
hours and hours of footage of all
these amazing musicians here
every single show you'll see me pushing other people
out of the way to get the best camera angle
and that's for a reason because I know that with me
because I'm a 22 year editor, like I know
it's in safe hands and I know it'll actually
be out there and actually be used so
I'd be happy to do that with anyone you know
we'd call it this last year
because I have a lot of footage, I think Metadave has
the other half of the hundreds of hours of
footage that exist and between the two of us
there's a really ridiculous library there so
add captions and stuff and try to find a good
caption app if anyone wants to DM
everybody listen to this right now
download CapCut the TikTok
are insanely easy, I used to
hate captions and then I realized
it's so easy, it takes literally
I can add CapCut at the end but even in
terms of color grading it, editing it, stabilizing
and stuff like that, I have professional
tools for that, that'll make it a lot
that's something I'd be happy to offer and then in terms of
I think it is exactly that
we're all going to argue for our
thesis, we're all out here like a bunch of scientists
in the lunch room, that's what I see
as Twitter spaces, it's like a bunch of scientists in the lunch
room and they're debating and arguing over
whatever I want to call it
they're saying like my thesis is this
and I think the world is a donut and someone else is like
I think the world is flat and
you can do that conversation all day every day
and some people can get butt hurt and they can get their feelings
hurt because they're too mostly invested
because there's an old saying, when the facts are on your side
you pound the facts, when the law is on your
side you pound the law, when neither are on your side
you pound the table, so there's a lot of
table pounding going on because a lot of people don't
have the facts or the numbers
or the sales data to back up what they're saying
and they get pissed off because she does
have the sales data to prove
and other people can have, Dil has sales data to prove
his thesis, I have sales data to prove mine
so do Josh, so does Emma, so
you know what I mean, Fondue has his
so we all have our own ways of doing this
and I think it is really that, it's like
you strike on something perfect
it's not conscriptive, there's no one
and that's why a conversation in an open room
like this is really important because
when it does get, I also think it's really
important to be able to whole heartedly
and have your narrative and that's
what you're right Christian, that's what all of us
congregate the community and offer
more, offer another opportunity
what we're all here for, which is the artists
and I think every single person that's on stage
exactly the type of people I want to be around
I've learned more this week than I have
in the last two and a half years in Music NFTs
seriously, like I've learned more,
thought of more, filled up a notebook with ideas
come up with a platform and
protocol ideas, all these things
and I'm very excited to see what happens
I think this is the last,
there's a powder keg that was
Music NFTs that was ready to explode
and then this lit the match and I really feel like
all this fud and attention, all this stuff, this is what's going to lead us
to our bull run or whatever of Music NFTs
This is typically what predates it
is a lot of heavy fud and then it blows up
that's like every project I've seen in the last
two and a half years gets heavily
fudded like the two days before
and then everyone just dunks on them in the timeline and they're like
look at our floor, you've all seen it
so it's going to be that, so get ready for the dunking
try to be gracious winners, guys
Yeah, let's all be friends, we are all friends
Just as we close out our space
I want to point you up to the JungleTron
because Josh has just pinned a very interesting
tweet about the Music Industry
with everything you've said there in the comments
Please set your reminders
for next week's space, we are back
at the same time, it's going to be
time, that is the middle pinned tweet
I've already created the space, so go up
and do a solid and set your reminders
and lastly, if you weren't here
at the top of the space, I am
Artifacts community event
we can't call it Batchfest
here in Scotland up in the very
north-east tip of Scotland
places that have already gone, there's 25
spots up for grabs, we have got
some lovely delightful musicians
Mr Matt Belmont has already
it's going to be proper VIP
Discord for a little bit more information
on my pinned tweet is how you can
be part of it, I feel like I've made
it overall fairly accessible
I can't wait, I'm so excited
anyone in this room would be very welcome
have actually DMD once in my
even if I haven't, guys, if you're part of the
music scene, come and check out
we've not really said hello to
Mr Matt Belmont, and maybe
we should say hello to him whilst people check the Jumbotron
that's a terrible question, he's going to keep
we'll be rolling over into Violetta's space
which is going to kick off shortly, I imagine
these are my first words after my
and I know all the hot takes
yeah, I guess my take would be
it would just be that what
I'm trying to do is I'm trying
to reach as many people as possible
with my music, well not just that
I'm trying to connect with as many people as possible
with my music, in the past I've
reached a tonne of people but they were
and now I've realised that I
actually want to connect with people I want to know
who's listening to the music
yeah, I think it's a really important one
you can't continue to create
if all you have is listeners
unless you get into the silly numbers
what we want, as you were saying, what I
want anyway, is I want to be able to
sell a thousand tickets in every
know that there'll be a thousand people
there that know the words to my songs
and then the record after that
to try and make a sustainable career
I know funnels have already been mentioned
so it's hard to comment right now
because it's not as organic
as it used to be, but TikTok
and Reels, when they are at their most organic
I wouldn't say I've cracked either
a lot of it's just kind of consistency
I've started to look at like, when I post
when I used to post a video on TikTok and it would get like
kind of be disappointed in that, but now
I've started to reframe that
because it's generally 250 people who've never
seen you before, it's 250 chances
that connects with your music, and I think as long as you're
putting, I think where we like
I'm looking at you, Viola
that our platform is trying to make us something
and I think we just need to realise how much kind of power
we have to just put out what we
want to put out, and I think someone like
Viola could kill it on TikTok, could kill it
on Reels, if she wanted to
there's no reason why she has to, she's killing it
and you can kill it in other ways
But by leading with her personality
and her story, and kind of
giving a lot of the takes she gives on here
I sometimes see other people
giving those takes on TikTok, and I'm like
I wish that was Viola, she would have said it so much better
Oh, Matt, that is a red flag
to a bull, right there, that's the kind
of comments you need to fire off to V
because if she hears shit like that
she's literally over the TikTok empire
it doesn't even be dancing, it should be just hot takes
and just use that fiery, fiery, fiery tongue
into trouble on TikTok in the comments
it'll be amazing, that's what you want
you want to be controversial on TikTok
Totally, my wife's a psychologist
but she used to be a marketer
and she kind of helped me
recently, and she was talking about
come up with the three pillars of what you
want to present, of what represent you
or you and your band, or whatever
and then just kind of, you can have varied content
but just keep within those
it can be like, for Viola, it could be hot takes
the kind of, what's it called
candid footage, that shows
and things, or when she's preparing, maybe
there could be the three types of content she did
and just keep putting that out
and just, as long as you're giving, with TikTok
for example, as long as you're giving them enough information
to place you in front of the right people
with hashtags, with the text
on your videos, and the text in your caption
your people, and you'll be pushed out of the right people
and you'll start to show up enough that they
connect with what you do, and hopefully that
leads them down, the whole rabbit hole
which leads them here, or wherever Viola
wants them to be, or I mean, I'm just using
any of us, wherever the artist wants them to be, and as long
as you set up that funnel
there, like, what is important to you and what you
any of these things, in my opinion, of course
we can make them better and we can fix them, but
it's just another opportunity, I used
to busk, I've said this a few times, but I busk
for like seven, eight years around the UK
and for me, they're just like
it's just another high street to stand on
and play my music for a few hours
and find the people who happen to be shopping
that day to connect with what I do
yeah, I think they're all just new routes to find
more fans, it's just, if we don't
know how to convert a listener or just one
view on TikTok all the way down
into becoming a fan or a collector
then it kind of feels pointless and
empty because you never, and that's
what's so attractive about this, I'm gonna wrap up
wrap this up, don't worry, but that's what's
attractive about this space
the fact that we do have that, we do know who
the people are and we're making these real world
connections that carry on in the DMs and carry on
in Discord and in the livestream
hangs and all of that, like that's so
that's like addictive about this space
and then when we go to other spaces, it's like
it's nothing like that there, so
why do I bother? But I think we just have
to realise there can be, there's just a few
good morning, I just wanted to say
hi, yeah and I was hoping
my daughter would wake up and
feel like singing but she's
I don't even know if she's awake
darn late in Mitch's final
space, I wondered like, did you
stay, like how did it end up
peaceful and nice? I was saying to Mitch
do you know what overall they were but I said
to Mitch I've never seen that man so sassy
in my life, like he was like
He was on his last day vibes
he was like, I don't even know what he was doing before
It's like, yeah, I mean I'm on the way out the
door, what are you gonna do, fire me? So
No, that was, that was interesting
Anyway, you know what, I have lots of thoughts
but I know you're trying to wrap up, so
but for not music, so that's
a disclaimer, not for music
and then when I was trying to make that account
like any time I try to inject music
into it, people would be like, we don't care
I think the thing is like
it really depends what kind of music you're
doing too, like if you're doing
like there's those kids out there who are like
oh, we're doing the remix challenge and
you know, we're gonna do this and they do some
sort of like weird rappy thing over
and it's like they're obviously
purposely making music that they hope
on TikTok for like, you know,
different people to use in their videos or whatever
We have a lot harder road
I'm just gonna tell you right now, because
the kind of music that all of
us up here are making like requires
It requires people to listen for more than
What I can say though is that with
that account where I was going really viral
viral like bang, like if it
was gonna do a million or two million views or whatever
it was gonna do it within the first hour
and then that's it basically
the music stuff, like I've been doing a lot of stuff recently
My younger one with a rock project and my
my older one with a more sort of ambient
even if the stuff doesn't pop
kind of keeps gaining views
I mean, it stops after a while
but I think that's the difference
is that when you do reach the people
that do want to pay attention
it won't be just as much of a flash
in the pan thing, so I do think it's a much
The other thing is that don't
let the algorithm fuck with you too much
because I'm telling you right now
it doesn't care what you're posting
it doesn't know, like, you know, it's not like
analyzing what you're posting, like
what happens is when you open your first
you're a fresh account, you start posting
you're like, oh shit, four thousand
views, or whatever, like, this is
going to be great, and like, everything starts going up
for the first few videos, then you fall off
a cliff, so what they're doing is they've hooked
you, right, they're just giving you that little sample
the little sampler taste, they
want you to come back, then you start
getting frustrated, like, fuck, why
are my views dropping, and I, you know what, and I'm doing it
with my younger daughter, it was that same
thing where I'm like, oh man,
this is going up so fast, the next one's going to go
viral, what the fuck, it only
got 800 views, now it only has 600
views, and I know what's happening
but I was still getting frustrated
about it, you just have to keep
posting, and even with that account that
I went viral with, I didn't
totally with one that I would not have
expected to be the one, so
that sort of more mainstream crowd,
there's no formula, it's just post a lot,
that's it, just keep posting, putting
up great content, but just be aware that
if you're putting up stuff that is actual
art, and not just like some fast
food, whatever, it's going to
Can I just say something really quick, and do I gotta go?
so I actually used to get paid by the major
record labels to chart a song,
eight songs in the Billboard charts, using that
strategy of getting the music into
the creator's feeds, right, into the
background of their, you know, so it would take a
six second, or seven, this was on Vine back in the day,
portion of the song, right, and say, all right,
this is the song, it's going to be the part that's going to be the trend.
So exactly like you said, the kids are actually writing it for that now.
But just because your song is not
written for that doesn't mean that there's not
you know, that part, like Emma's song,
like today I'm going to kill myself by jumping in front of a flower truck.
That song will go viral on TikTok,
I told her, it's fucking guaranteed,
like guaranteed, because people are going to use that
to express themselves and use that little clip of the song.
And then people in the comments go,
what's the song? And they go, oh, Emma
Miller's, you know, whatever the title of that song,
it's right. And then they go and check out that song
and they listen to the whole thing and they're like, oh, my God,
I cried my eyes out and they go back to the comments
and they're like, when you listen to the whole album
and fall in love, you know what I mean? People are like, wait,
what? And then you have this organic marketing
going on, on there, but it comes from
finding that clipable part of the song.
So everyone could, this was the first conversation I had
with Violeta two years ago,
came into space and I was like, you should really do this
strategy, because that strategy
became so successful that we charted many songs,
but also musically adapted it
and then TikTok adapted it. And it's like
their big business model. They literally
integrated it where we can put our music in there
and make it easier for people to clip it. So I would
highly suggest everyone looking into getting their songs
in the TikTok library, even if you don't make content
on there, you can just have your music
in there and never have to be a content creator.
And that's the best way to do it. That's what I've been pitching
everyone for a year and a half or two, to be like,
don't worry about making TikToks. Don't even have to
take out your phone. Just literally get your stuff
up in there in the music library and then other people
your job is just to reach out to other TikTok creators
that you like and be like, hey, can I pay you
or give you an NFT or something to use my song
in your background? Or you know,
and that's how you do it.
Do you know what, though, as well,
like I get that that is entirely
a model and it's how so many
But what is kind of scary
on socials and that can be
really challenging for artists
to do, especially when you have
like, I don't know if you're
building a mystique or if you're trying to build
a certain perception about you and your art
as a person, that's fucking like the most
frightening thing you can do.
But any time is how we've
grown on here as well, like finally being able to speak
as if we're like with all our friends
and are like living or that's definitely
like that. We like it here, too.
We like doing this and that's why we do it. If we like to do
it, we'd be doing that already.
I've definitely found any time I've shared
not overthinking, not trying to
curate what I think the TikTok
algorithm wants, which I think
even the likes of myself, where I'm just like
that's bullshit, I don't want to sink that low.
easy thing is that you love
just telling your story and to
go to Genzo's point, like
it's so pointless going viral for something
you want fuck all to do with.
Like, don't be putting stuff
back with your heart, like share
something that is true to you.
down the socials route today, which is not where we
started, but it all is one and the same thing.
Well, Spotify's a social network, right?
For sure, exactly. It's all one and the same thing
your friends and your listeners.
But Genzo, did you want to pick up on something?
Yeah, sorry to keep extending it, but
talked about, I mean, I just recently
alright, I know what I'm doing, like I know what my
daughter should be posting, but what should I be
posting? And so I was like, well I guess I
should be doing plugin reviews and like
you know, I'll show my process and that
kind of stuff. And I ended up doing like a review
you know, the creator of the plugin, and all of
a sudden they like, reposted it, and then it
had like, you know, 100,000
even Twitter or something.
And then I just was like,
well wait a minute, I don't want to fucking do this.
Like, this is not what I want to be spending my
time doing. So yes, definitely do something
that you want to do because it will
not be sustainable if you don't. Like that
other account I had, I did
want to do it for about a year, and so it
was very easy to just like get up and I would
do like a video a day, and it was animation.
So I was even animating a little clip
every single day, but it was not
like work. I was having fun doing it. As soon
as it became not fun, I was like, this is
I'm done. The other thing I was
going to touch on was something Emily
said before. You truly don't know.
First of all, you don't know if you're
going to go viral. There's a lot of luck involved,
but you don't know where it's going to happen
either. Like I experimented with different
animation accounts, and like
one of them, for some reason, it was
Reels. Another one, it was
Instagram where it was getting more traction. Like you just
don't know. So the recycling thing,
content. Like make sure you're
not posting the, like don't
download the TikTok with the little
that's watermarked, because
they will know. Like it does
not get pushed out. Like you have to post
it fresh, but you can literally post
the same thing everywhere. The other thing is
reposting stuff, recycling stuff,
like you may be like, oh shit, I already posted
this and 800 people saw it.
nobody, nobody's seen it. And so
if that one ends up going viral
again and hits a million people,
like what, you're going to have 800 people that
grumble like, oh I've seen this before. Like
they're probably not even going to see it anymore.
So that taps into my core of the cringe factor.
Like I am that person that's like,
like told the story. I can't pause
it. Like people are going to be laughing at me because
no bit. Or whatever the stupid narrative
That's the different platform approach
though. That's the kind of like don't do that
on Instagram. But on TikTok
it's. But even on Instagram, like
nobody saw it. Yeah, TikTok you can recycle a lot more.
Instagram you can also not post to your
it will only be seen by people who don't
follow you. And then if you want to send
it to your like broadcast channel
you can then get like the first 50 views
on it just to get some views from your fan
without putting it on your feed
and kind of get people in on that. But I definitely
think like Twitter is this like look how
intimately we all connect here. It's like
it's a whole different level of intimacy
on Twitter. But then Instagram
to kind of for you to speak
to your fans. And I think you have to adjust
your approach to that. So whenever you post
you're kind of posting inside jokes
that you posted before maybe or
you don't have to explain the whole
I think every post really
and I'm guilty of not doing this
as much as I should. But every post we should
really kind of be giving an impression
a first impression. Unless we have like a hundred thousand followers.
I feel those two are kind of swapped.
I feel like with TikTok you can
just throw stuff out and see
forgive you for being kind of random.
like thinking of my own habits, if I discover
a new artist, actually the
first place I still go to them
is Instagram. Because I want
more of a curated moment to get
me. Like what are they trying to, I'll let them
kind of thing. TikTok is sometimes
too overwhelming because it's, that's the
insider jokes. That's like the
viral video that maybe you need, I don't
know. You just want to get.
I completely disagree on TikTok
because I'm going to fight now
We won't fight but don't worry.
No, I totally, like for me, I see
it's just in the way that I see the platform. I don't see
it as a community platform at all.
with the busking, just a way to stand on the street
by the people who walk past me.
The kind of people who want to stop and
listen, you know. Yeah, fair
enough. That's maybe what it is
It's a curated story and I wouldn't think of it
community stuff but it probably, you're right
like it takes you, that's where I see
the differentiation. It takes you much more
Just at first glance. It's a different
you have, if you're trying
to check an artist out, it's because you've already
heard their music and you're like oh well I wonder what
their Instagram is like. The position that you
are on the journey towards being
a fan of that artist is so many
steps further along than you would
be on TikTok and on TikTok it's like
nobody gives a shit who you are but when you appear
on their feed with a beautiful voice
going, so now I'm going to kill
myself by jumping in front of a
flower truck, then suddenly they're like
okay, right now I'm interested
and it has to be like that
it doesn't have to be that but it has to
be, whatever world you're in has to be
that equivalent of like gripping
the second that you come in because you've got like
a second really. I mean people say
three seconds, you've probably got like a second really
when I watch my nephew on TikTok
you've got 0.3 seconds before
he moves on. How long does it take to scroll?
I'm like fucking hell that's ruthless
you have 0.5 seconds to impress me
actually do you know what it's not really
they do it in the other direction, they just swipe
on everyone I'm like you absolute dirty
dogs but there we go. When you say men do you mean
let's go with that. They're playing the app
fuck out, thank god I got it
I don't know what you're talking about
Josh just walks the street every weekend
Emily you did pop back up
we were wrapping up but you
we've not really strayed too far from
I wondered if you wanted to chime back in
Yeah sorry I had to jump off and do something
no I think that everybody made solid points
and you know these are tools in your toolbox
just keep using all of them
as much as you can but I really do
want to push the narrative of
the funnel narrative that Dill
kind of like brought into the
figure out what you're going to focus on
and what you're going to focus
steps like do everything like
Genzo was even saying you can recycle content
whatever just don't have the logo
on it although I sometimes do that
I sometimes put the TikTok logo
on my stories on Instagram because I don't
but yeah you shouldn't do that
advice from me but yeah so the funnel thing
be consistent especially if
you want to grow your Spotify numbers
the biggest thing on Spotify is to be
consistent with dropping like
for consistently dropping music
which is hard to do if it
costs money to make music and you're not making
any music on Spotify that's the
right there but if you are making
money in Web 3 and you can go back into
the studio and make music consistently
like put it what I do is I
make it exclusive to the Web 3 platform
that I'm on for like about
a month and then after a month I put it
eventually but it becomes
this exclusive thing that if you really
love what I do and you want to hear it
first you know where to go
so like and that funnels the
people back from Spotify to
these Web 3 platforms so it works both
those are just my two cents and thanks guys
Matt it's good to see you, Dil
Christian everybody it's good
to see you guys so thank you Genzo
Really really good to see you too Emily
Let's get over to Matt then I got a rug
I got some work I still need to do
before I go to bed tonight so Mattie boy
I was just going to comment that I jumped in a little late today
and obviously playing catch up at the start but I think
it's uh although I just think
I just wanted to comment on how obviously
we've had like a pretty kind of negative
necessarily us but in this space there's been a lot
of negativity and a lot of kind of
we do but I love that this
shifting this way to be kind
of Web 3 music being less insular
kind of going this is the only way
let's just stay here and bring the shutters
it's now we're now talking about kind of
how can we use what we have in this
space which is maybe a little bit of extra
funding and budget an amazing
core community that has been
so supportive and is able
we actually do out in the
wider world with that you know
we don't have to stay siloed forever
if we go onto TikTok and we have
those first 50 followers from this
music NFT community who will
watch our videos and who will share
them and heart them and whatever
that might give us a little boost in the algorithm
I've been a bit worried for a while that we're
because of that because I think that
this model has such potential
because of what it can do out in the
wider world and how it can kind of prove
a new way and I think that rather than
just kind of shouting about it all the time
I think that's a really inspirational
thing if we get out there and
it's like how did that kind of
it's like a scene of artists right and how did that
and then you start people will start to pick that apart
and go oh shit they have this amazing community
who financially back them
just by supporting them across all platforms
they allow they kind of created this amazing
wholesome kind of utility access
reciprocal relationship and
then that fed back into the value
of the music NFTs I think like that's the way to win
rather than shutting down and just going everything else
is shit everything else is a nightmare
let's just stay here forever so
I just wanted to comment that I think it's
inspiring and heartening and it's
cool that you guys I can't take
credit for starting that conversation
today with Josh and Emma but yeah
great thing to end on guys
we haven't had any songs today
reveal a little bit about that I'm literally doing
this space I've just got an email to say that
this song that I released on Spotify
is actually going to be played
tomorrow and on Saturday on
BBC introducing in the UK
so I guess that's definitely one
that's one reason why still
appearing in web 2 is really
song called Winner it's brand new it's available
to listen for free on Spotify
I'm sure we'll find it at home
on the blockchain eventually exactly
all everything you ever wanted
but something I've definitely
learned in my career is that the goal posts
are always moving and something
I've had in my career is like
I've played to hundreds of thousands
of people I've toured the
world and yet I still don't
feel like a winner which is really ironic
literally the time of my life at times
but of course there's always ups and downs
you enjoy the process of whatever
you might just not know it yet
and to just be grateful of what you have
and of course keep working
but yeah I think just a reminder
I'm really excited that winner is winning
barely a week old but it's not even a
week old yet so here we go
really excited to share that with you guys
I'm so tired and inspired
life's a bitch it's not meant to be
think outside the box before casing
oh it seems like everyone's a winner
best story to dream there's so
much more than the eye can see
roll the dice get the eye
never quit I'm waiting for my turn
oh it seems like everyone's a winner
there's so much more than the eye can see
oh it seems like everyone's a winner
there's so much more than the eye can see
thank you guys it's been an awesome space
you can check that out on all
a big thank you to Emma for being such
wonderful co-host today we're going to be
doing this again next week same
time 12 p.m east coast time
it's the middle pin tweet guys
go set your reminders just now oh let's
yeah big love to everybody showed
shared their feedback on Spotify
love to our wonderful community
hanging down there in the audience
love you all we could not be here
without you so thank you so much for the support
thanks so much for being here
discords and of course your
favorite social media platforms
over to you and then we will
carry on I think we're good
thank you so much everyone I've really enjoyed this
open conversation looking forward
to the same thing next week
so yeah just show some love to the pin tweets and set
that reminder in the middle tweet
and actually one last thing
for me I have opened up my
discord this month for my livestream
that I do every week for my community so if
you want to come along we're going to be kicking
and the link is in my bio invite a friend
you're very welcome alright
take care guys have a great week we'll see
you guys next Wednesday big love bye