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Stablecoins: How The US Stable Act of 2025 Will Change Everything
Recorded: April 3, 2025 Duration: 0:54:18Space Recording
Short Summary
The crypto landscape is poised for transformation as the US Stable Act of 2025 aims to regulate stablecoins, fostering partnerships and innovations while potentially stifling certain growth areas like algorithmic stablecoins. Key players in the industry are gearing up for a new era of compliance and opportunity.
Full Transcription
Thank you. It's your music after choosing, it's your music after choosing, it's your music after choosing, you don't know what you're doing.
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Stop dancing to the music after it is in a happy mood, keep my moves on There you go! Music It's the music that we choose from our blue ball. It's the music that we choose from our blue ball.
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Get the cool. Get the cool. Get the cool. Thank you. Get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, get the food, everybody. Welcome back to another banger show with Bracket. Bracket is liquid
staked DeFi backed by Binance Labs. Today we're
here to talk about stable coins and how the US Stable Act of 2025 will change everything. Really,
really good day to do it as well as the markets are still reacting for another bit of news that
the US have just come out with today. We also have some incredible guest speakers to jump into
this conversation with. We have
Nibiru, the Web3 hub ushering in the next era of money. We have Nuon with us today,
the First Yield Bearing Stablecoin with built-in insurance and decentralized stewardship.
We have Stake Stone with us, Stone and Stone BTC, Omnichain Liquidity Infrastructure Liquidity Pad. And we have Dave Kaplan with us
today, Web3 Lawyer, GC at Nibiru, founder of DK Law. So really, really excited to jump into this
one. Tons and tons to talk about today. Before we get any further, I want to get the mic over
to the Bracket account. Who do we have behind the amount the microphone today are you excited
for the show hey jack yeah this is mike very excited uh stable coin hot commodity right now
it's on the kind of unlock a lot of stuff for the u.s banking system for u.s uh u.s customers
ultimately i think so it's going to be an interesting show i think the market we've always
wanted you know i think as you as, Jack, like in the past,
I think U.S. companies, I think it's pretty obvious consensus view at this point,
U.S. companies are treated very unfairly, especially those of us who were trying to do
the right thing and do things above board. And those who were doing, you know, even criminal
mischief and had criminal intent were not targeted by the last administration.
So I'm very curious to see how all this plays out and if we get some kind of like more privileged U.S. treatment
that other countries were giving their own companies
so that U.S. companies can actually get a hand up in Western markets
in the coming future.
So I'm really interested to hear what the panel has to say today about this
topic. Me too, me too, Mike. I'm really, really excited that we get to host this sort of show as
well and really excited to jump in. For our speakers, if you haven't been on a show with
myself, Mike, or Brackett before, quick TLDR about how we try and run these shows and then
we'll just dive straight into the conversation. So really, it's just an organic show. That's what we're going for today. You're the thought leaders. You're the industry experts.
We want to hear wherever you want to take the conversation. How we do that though,
because I am not looking at a bunch of faces right now. I'm looking at a bunch of PFPs.
Need a little bit of help from you guys. No facial cues to go off. So there's a little
comment section at the bottom of the screen. You can probably see it's in purple. Right next to that, there is a hot plus function. If you click on
that, there's a little hand raise function alongside it. Basically, as demoed right now
by myself, if you get the hand in the air, we'll get the mic straight over to you to hear whatever
you want to add to the conversation today. On top of that, we do also have Jackpoints. Now,
Jackpoints are the most worthless
point system in the entire crypto space, maybe the entire world at this point. They have no
tangible value whatsoever, but you do get 10 jack points for every time you raise your hand
in the air. And at the end of the show, we will tally all those points together and we will see
who comes out on top. And the winner will receive absolutely nothing for doing so i've just told
you guys they're completely worthless but you will get my love and respect for adding a ton to the
conversation today so there is that and if i do figure out anything else to do with them which is
definitely not going to happen but if for some miracle they do then you're going to have to come
to me and tell me how many points you've earned over your career as a speaker as a client client coming up on the show, because I don't even keep count of them. This is how
worthless they are. So, okay, guys, really, really excited to jump into the show. To start us off,
Mike, I always give you the microphone back to set the stage here. Where's the conversation
going today? What is it that you're hoping to get out of a conversation with some absolutely
incredible guest speakers that we have up on stage? Yeah, I'm really interested to hear how
companies that might not be in the US or have any US exposure, etc., which is most crypto today,
honestly, are going to interpret this and how the framework is being interpreted. Because right now, of course, this reserve requirement,
the one-to-one requirement,
does challenge a fair amount of stablecoin frameworks,
quote-unquote stablecoin frameworks,
and will not make them stablecoins under U.S. law.
So I'm pretty curious to hear how folks think about that
and how will this attract niche issuers?
Personally, I don't think the niche thing is going to happen anymore.
I think this is a big boy game now and it's getting out of the trenches.
Like, thanks, trenches.
You know, you figured it out.
But the legal way to do this is going to be, you know, by the big boys because it's all going to involve banks.
Right. So I'm not thrilled about that.
But, hey, it is what it is when it comes to protecting.
You know, they put it under the guise of like consumer protection.
But it is true.
Like there needs to be a clear regulatory framework for understanding how these things are backed.
But, yeah, that's kind of what I'm interested to hear about from the crypto people here today. Yeah, definitely agree. And look, I think let's break down the stable act
for all of our speakers and listeners, and then we'll dive further into the show. So Mike just
referenced, it requires a one of one reserve backing with fiat currency, ensuring stability,
it's mandating anti-money laundering compliance aligning with financial
regulations, which is why the big boy is having to really apply to that. Implementing cyber
security requirements with federal regulators overseeing standards. You've got removing state
level capital liquidity or risk management standards for issuers, shifting oversight
to federal authorities, as noted in recent updates from Jones Day. And we're talking
about requiring federal approval for foreign depository institutions holding issuers demand
deposits enhancing transparency. So there's some of the bullet points that I have in front of me.
Dave, your hand is already raised, so I'd love to get the mic over to you to hear your thoughts.
And yeah, let's just dive straight in. If any speakers do want to come in on this one how you feel it is going to impact
the space how it's going to impact you as a project or individuals all of that is on the table
i'll moderate so if it does go dry i will ask some questions but dave mike over to you first
hey gm everybody um yeah i just uh having having been following this legislation since it came out, I thought it might be helpful to, you know, give a little bit of background for everybody on like where it is and sort of what's in it.
to earn some fake points by jumping in and covering that first. So, you know, I think
what's important for the community is, you know, there's basically in the U.S., for those of you
that are outside the U.S., you know, there's basically there's two houses of Congress,
and that's where legislation in the U.S. sort of comes into play. You know, we've all been hearing
about Trump's executive orders.
But if you actually get legislation through, that's something that will survive
a change in president. So this is something that's like the gold standard of change
in the crypto space or really in anything in the U.S. So super important. I think people
in crypto are super pumped here. You know, stablecoin legislation is kind of seen as the low hanging fruit in the U.S.
because it's relatively agreeable to both political parties in the U.S.
So, you know, the hope is you can get some, you know, stablecoin legislation through
and that will give some momentum in the crypto space to really get other legislation through,
which is talking about market structure and the release of other kinds of tokens other than
stable coins. So when we take that as a broad macro view, then we can dive into the why is this
important stable coin considerations. So essentially what you have right now is two companion pieces of
legislation that were introduced in both houses of Congress. You have the Genius Act. When you
see people talking about the Genius Act, that was introduced in the U.S. Senate. And then you have
the Stable Act that was introduced in the U.S. House, both in early February, I think two days apart from each other.
And then I think, you know, what seems to be the plan with the legislation is it's kind of interesting as far as the title.
It's probably going to ultimately be called the Stable Genius Act, which is, I think, some kind of, you know, a fake play on, you know, making fun of Trump,
who has used that language. But so basically, what will happen is they'll eventually,
if these pieces of legislation pass their respective houses, then they'll have to be
combined into one piece of legislation. So that's kind of important right now, in the sense that
nobody knows what's going to be in the final bill. These bills are sort of
proceeding through the process. We can get into some of the specifics of them, but essentially
they are moving forward. And we have, so in the Genius Act, which is the Senate bill that passed
out of the Senate committee a couple of weeks ago, I think it was about three weeks ago with an 18 to
six vote. And the Senate is very evenly split.
So that gives you an idea.
It's like it's pretty bipartisan.
And eventually now it will go to the Senate floor and it will need 60 votes out of the 100 votes to pass there.
And then you have the Stable Act in the House.
And that, I think, went to committee.
It was just yesterday or the day before.
Days kind of run together,
but it passed 32 to 17, where, you know, six Democrats joined all the Republicans to
get that vote through. And it was, there were a number of amendments that were made,
and that was the markup and that was voted on. So again, moving through there and then,
you know, what will happen there
is it just has to have a simple majority vote in the full house. And, you know, obviously if
something's passing, you know, 18 to six or 32 to 17 in the committee, these bills have a pretty
good chance of ultimately getting passed. So, you know, kind of, they're pretty similar to each
other. There's a few differences. I think we can, you know, go over a little bit later, but essentially anyone that wants to issue a
stable coin in the U S will need to apply first and then get a license. And basically like,
you know, it's, it's like a lot of other things. There'll be some kind of deadline on the government
and both bills actually have a 120-day deadline. So
you disclose, you as the issuer will have to apply to the license, the stable coin license.
You're going to have to provide all the information that they're asking for. And some of it's in this
bill and some of it will be determined by the regulators that are in charge later. But the bill does set a 120-day deadline for, you know, whichever regulator is tasked with this to make a decision.
And that's important because they can't just, you know, keep you in limbo forever and say,
ah, yeah, yeah, come in and register. You know, we were hearing with the previous SEC and then,
you know, things go into limbo, you never hear. Because if you do get a rejection, you could, you know, that's where you could take it to court or whatever,
you know, escalate to a different level, but you need to get that decision.
So that's kind of important.
You know, also, you know, I think you guys were mentioning earlier,
it's any stablecoin that's issued, it's essentially must be backed one-to-one,
you know, we'd say with U.S. dollars,
but it's also like there's some other, you know, high-quality liquid assets, you know,
related to U.S. dollars. They could be U.S. treasuries, for example, something that's highly
liquid. That's actually super important to the, I guess, impetus for the government passing this bill in the first place
in that, you know, there's like $9 trillion, I think, of U.S. debt that needs to be refinanced
this year and they need somebody to buy those bonds. So, you know, getting crypto to buy a
large chunk of that is definitely some good incentive for the government. So, you know,
especially with the, you know, just geopolitical things and where there
might not be as much of a foreign appetite for US bonds. So that's something that is definitely
driving this, I think, too. And then another key aspect I'll just mention really quick is just
whoever is minting stablecoins, they absolutely must maintain and segregate whatever funds are set aside for the backing of the stablecoin.
So they have to have like a reserves, we would say, and they must on a monthly basis certify those reserves.
But it's critical that they must be segregated from any other funds that they have.
They can't co-mingle.
If you're USDC and you have operating funds, Circle can't mix those funds that are backing
their stablecoin and use some for their operating expenses.
They have to be fully segregated.
So if the company, if you think about like FTX, was doing the opposite of that, they were totally not segregating funds that were supposed to be segregated. So, you know, if the company, if you think about like FTX, you know, was doing the opposite of that, they were totally not segregating funds that were supposed to be segregated. So then
they end up going bankrupt and the users are like, where are my funds? But that's absolutely not
supposed to happen in this legislation in that, you know, the funds are supposed to be entirely
segregated and they're not subject to credit creditors claims so if one of these entities
does go bankrupt the users you know if there's a you know withdrawal something that you know if
somebody's holding or custodying uh stable coins they absolutely are supposed to be uh giving back
the and have the ability to give back the funds to the users because they don't belong to the issuer or
the custody service provider. They actually belong to the depositor. Just one other quick
thing I'll mention is algorithmic stablecoins are something else that's being, I would say,
discussed. But basically, the two acts treat them slightly differently, but both are not allowing for algorithmic stablecoins at this point.
But they are proposing to do studies on them to see what might happen in the future.
But actually, the House bill does have a two-year moratorium on the issuance of stablecoins,
so there's algorithmic stablecoins. So they're saying, even if the study shows
these things should absolutely be done, they're not going to happen in the next two years. I think
that's another, uh, you know, kind of notable aspect here, but I'll just kind of pause there.
I don't want to talk forever, but, uh, some, some interesting things there, I think we can,
can you know use to as a foundation for further jumping off point here wow dave you can come back
you know, use to, as a foundation for further jumping off point here.
anytime what a great synopsis of everything that is going on absolutely i can't appreciate you more
for all the context you've just provided and fantastic fantastic start to the show and
speakers i like i'm half speechless here it's sort of my job not to be, but I did not expect that level of context straight off the bat. So I hope you guys are now prepped, primed, and ready to dive into it further.
with like almost an earnest question on my behalf as well as something i think the
listeners will want to know which is what does this actually mean for like all the different
stable coins out there are they prepared for this what happens if they're not prepared for it like
they've got to go through you know a lot more steps now and even if they are the right steps
to be taken you've got tether and you usdc which is obviously what like 250 billion
dollars worth of market cap between the two of them but then you've got like these smaller 5
billion 1 billion mock-up which is still freaking big money so i would love to know you know if
you're a user or even if you're a project that is trying to dabble within these stable coins to offer yield,
to offer support, or even to just utilize your business functioning, should you be concerned
here? Will we see a flock to the big dogs even more? How is this all going to turn out for the
end user and people practically trying to integrate stable coins into their projects?
And again, listeners, this is really an open question to
any of the speakers up on stage new one with the hand raised love to see it mike straight over to
new one hey hey how's it going man um all right so yeah let's jump in so yeah dave that was a
really great overview that was uh that was actually quite good get us through the the breakdown of
what's really going on.
So for me, I don't know.
I just want to tell you what I think from my point of view.
Like, first of all, I'm so happy that we've been having these conversations.
You know, the last God knows how many years have just been, you know, enforcement.
It's just been so bad. Like, it's just been a cloudy gray area.
So impossible to know what's actually going on, what the rules are going to be. And to finally see some clear rules
coming through is, is great. Great for America. I think great for, great for users and everything.
So that's, that's wonderful. The part that I think sticks out to me the most is, yeah, first of all,
I just want to be clear. Like I love the consumer protection, I can tell
the spirit of this is focused on consumer protection, but I still kind of stick on the
yield part, you know, obviously, yield bearing stable coin, Nuon, Nuon.finance, Nuon.fi, check
it out, shameless plug. But really, it's like, you know, what's happening is like the banks can make
these, as you were calling it earlier, the big boys, they can make these stable coins.
They can earn yield on the underlying assets, but they're literally banned from sharing it with their users.
I'm not saying that is 100% a bad thing, right?
Right. Because we've seen such such shenanigans.
Because we've seen such shenanigans.
And even even now, dude, honestly, like, you know, we're we're trying to be really safe and really focus on this consumer protection side.
But I see so many stable coins just, you know, oh, we've got these huge APYs come get us.
But we're totally a stable coin.
And and the fact is, if any of the yields that these guys are working with underneath fall apart, then the whole thing falls apart and it depegs.
And I think it's quite irresponsible.
So really happy to see this in general.
But I just don't love the fact how the banks are guaranteed
to make decent cash off this,
whereas maybe the users are completely banned
from earning any yield.
So I think probably that's the part I'm most focused on.
Yeah, great, great context and perspective there.
And yeah, obviously for anyone in this space,
like this is going to be news to us
because that's sort of why we're dabbling in it.
Like, you know, you can get US dollars any which way.
The transaction speed, the ease of, you know,
movement is definitely a big big part of it but
also this idea of being able to participate in the upside is sort of how this all started it's
like you know it's almost the core of this thing and the idea that that's trying to be stripped
away i don't i don't really understand that so i'd love more context as to you know okay there's there's a clear concern here and we have
seen history in the past where when those yield markers go too high then yes people can get very
hurt by it and there needs to be protection in that sense but if we're talking about the yield
that's provably available why has that been banned to be shared with the user?
That doesn't make any sense to me. So Mike, your hand has come up. We'd love to hear your take on this. Yeah, I think it's going to come down to just nomenclature. I don't know if those things
will be completely outlawed. I just think it'll have to be called something else in order to
operate. And maybe that's fair, right? If it's a tokenized hedge fund, it's a tokenized hedge
fund. It's not a stable coin.
I'm saying in the context of this definition.
It is on the surface a bit strange.
Like, I think the narrative, a lot of people who are in the know and going to D.C., what
they're pushing is, oh, yeah, you know, and this is true.
I mean, it is.
Like, we need to export dollars.
The best way to export dollars is digitally through stable coins. It increases the buying of U.S. treasuries. I think Dave was talking about
that second order effect, which is what they want. So, you know, that's all good. But if it
comes to innovation, you know, it's going to be, I think the waters that need to be cleared up
around stable coin. And a lot of, trust me, like I've been around, I'm sure a lot of you
guys have been around a long time to see all these stablecoins, these so-called stablecoins,
these pegged assets collapse, de-pegged. I mean, I think it was a good shot, a good try. How many
more tries do we need to take before these pegged assets? You know, it's like a bad, it's just a bad
idea. It's like communism, like, oh, it'll work this time. You know, it's like, no, it won't, you know, it won't work this time.
So that's one thing.
And then on the other side, when it comes to like innovation, like stacking yield or doing like a yield, like a yield bearing stable coin or something, I think it just it's going to depend now on what you call it.
And they're probably going to classify
it as something different in the US.
So the big debate, not debate, but the big point here I think everyone's getting at is
like banks hold these or custodians hold these assets.
Like BNY holds dollars and treasuries and banks now can deal with them.
It definitely is preferential
to banks.
You know, that's something I think DeFi doesn't love, but it doesn't mean innovation's dead.
I think there's plenty of ways to do it.
I just think that you got to be careful what you call it and where you do it if you're
going to be involved in that.
And there's a big wide world out there.
But again, the US dollar is a reserve currency.
So I'll leave it there.
Yeah, Mike, really appreciate that additional context.
And yeah, that does make sense as well from, you know, the broader perspective of, look,
we just can't call it this thing because technically it's actually not, at least within
the context that they're trying to, you know, essentially wrap around some legal terminology
for it. And look, great, great start to the conversation absolute banger take from dave to begin with
a new one added tons of mic still so and what i'd love to do is i can see dave's hands come back up
and then i'm going to prioritize hearing from steak stone because we're yet to hear from them
i don't want you to be completely out to lunch on those very worthless jack points steak stone so
i'll make sure we get a question tailored to you as well first First, let's get over to Dave and then we'll hear from
Stakestone next. Yeah, no, I think this is a really good aspect of the bill to discuss too.
I think it's probably the most controversial right now. It's worth noting that neither
the House nor the Senate version right now would allow for stablecoin issuers to provide yield.
And, you know, that is, you know, I think we saw Brian Armstrong from Coinbase has been speaking up about this issue.
As many may know, you know, Coinbase offers, you know, if you actually have like USDC on Coinbase,
they will actually give yield to their users.
Now, they're not a stable coin issuer.
So it's important to think about like,
well, they would probably not be banned
from doing that, you know,
under even under the legislation,
except that, you know,
they've got to get their revenue
to do that from somewhere.
So whatever deal they have with Circle
to get that, you know, would possibly not be allowed.
So I do think this is one of the trickier things.
You know, I saw somebody call the legislation, you know, banking as usual, but in a blockchain wrapper,
which is not very exciting for, I think, a lot of crypto people.
And it's just, you know, it kind of goes against the ethos of what,
you know, DeFi is all about. But, you know, I think that's where it's just kind of this
conundrum, I think that the crypto space is in, and I would love to see a little bit more direction
from some of the lobbyists in the industry, because, but I do think they're caught in like
a difficult position, because they really want to get momentum and they want to get legislation through and trumpet it as this big, you know, bipartisan success and everything that they've been working for.
But, you know, this is probably something that is fairly important. Unfortunately, right now, it does.
This was an issue that came up in yesterday's House committee hearing where they marked up the bill.
And the chair does not right now was fairly dismissive about yield.
So it does not look like that language right now that there's any appetite to change that in the final bill.
But, you know, I do think it would be this is where it's like it would be helpful.
You don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but hopefully like the DeFi Education Fund or Blockchain Association or others that are doing these lobbying efforts are, you know, either trying to soften the language or do something to, you know, help this issue.
But yeah, I think this is an important one because it will be critical what the final language is,
like what's actually allowed and are there ways around it.
But as of right now, not looking all that promising.
So hopefully to see some positive change there.
Yeah, and look, I'm going to pose an additional question now,
but I want to get Stakestone's just overarching take on the news and the update so far.
But for our other speakers
and of course for stake stone if you want to come back in straight after i would love to know what
this would mean if they don't change this language i would love to know what this would mean for the
broader industry when it comes to you know yield just being off the table for the foreseeable what's
that going to do to the space what's that going to do to the space? What's that going to do to the user? Really would love to get some additional context. So like, should I be
concerned as a user? What if I want my yield? Is that going to really go away? Would love some,
you know, some more context from that side. But before we do, Stakestone, from the mic over to
you, how have you found the conversation so far? How do you feel this stablecoin news is going to impact the space
hi everyone i'm ivan the cmo of stakedone so uh it's a big day for stakedone today so because
we we tge it today and you know there's all these uh you know pancake on uh you know finance wallet
on packet swap and all that kind of stuff so i think for us um you, we actually have a product that we use that is called Liquidity Pad.
And then we also closely work with the RWA's like Plume and Story Protocol.
And we actually accept stable coins on the platform to be able to purchase these RWA-5 deposits.
Because the liquidity pad is more of a pre-deposit
for projects or ecosystems.
And I feel that stablecoin is definitely
very relatable to RWA because at the end of the day,
whether you're buying IP or buying a railroad asset,
using stablecoins is definitely a lot more easier
uh even from the ecosystem or the project side when they're you know trying to balance uh the
prices out and stuff like that and uh you know with like more clarity on um stablecoin usage in
the us it would definitely uh invite more institutional uh uh wanting to hold stablecoins in the coming days and also participate in,
I would say, in the Web3 space in one way or another.
So this definitely, this US Stable Act
would definitely aid in getting more institutional on board
and more, I would say, traditional money coming
into the space.
Yeah. Thank you. and more, I would say, traditional money coming into the space. Yep.
Yeah, great, great taking.
Congratulations as well.
Fantastic, fantastic conversation so far, everyone.
And we are 35 minutes into the show.
So listeners, if you are learning a ton,
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for this. They want to learn more about this sort of context and a big, big follow to all of the
speakers as well. If you are enjoying that context, because they hop on other shows to give this
insight, but they also are hopping on here to give it and you're going to get also any posts that they write about this
sort of stuff as well so all good stuff likes retweets follows definitely follow the bracket
main account as well because they do put these on on the weekly with ourselves and honestly yeah
just the wealth of knowledge that you can get from listening to an hour of a show honestly i'm not
sure there's many better places to do it um Great, great conversation. Mike, I'd love to get the mic
back over to you here. And again, I've done that thing where I say, Mike, Mike, but what's your
take on how this, if we are correct, or if it goes the way it's seemingly looking to go right now and nothing changes,
what's your take on how that will impact the space if offering yield is just a no-no over in the US?
Yeah, liquidity is king. It will always be king in any space. Everyone's hunting for it. Everyone's
selling their soul for it. And it doesn't change in crypto or in real life, right, in Trad space. Everyone's hunting for it. Everyone's selling their soul for it.
And it doesn't change in crypto or in real life, right, in TradFi.
The challenge in the U.S. will be, I think, I mean, this is more of a macro thing over the next,
you know, several years. But if things go well, the U.S. will kind of have its economic zone. And a lot of, you know, with these tariffs and everything else, trying to kind of stimulate better conditions for us.
But ultimately, I think it was Dave mentioned this. I want to bring it up again. The demand for or the watch the yield on the 10 year treasury. Right.
If that dips real low, who's going to take up the demand? right? They're going to start printing again.
So that's one thing to keep an eye out here.
And I think generally, as far as like what the impact is going to be for stables and
yield-bearing stables, I don't think most people give a shit about yield-bearing stables
at the moment in TradFi, I'm saying.
They will when it's theirs.
They don't want ours, even though ours are awesome, right theirs they don't want ours even though ours are awesome
they don't want theirs and so the legislation that's going to get through the lobbyists that
are going to push it through the power crypto is is a is a good lobby as of today like i know a lot
of lobbyists in dc and they've helped tremendously it's, it's still a small lobby.
Um, it is very powerful now that Trump's involved, but it's still, it's still relatively small
in dollars and cents.
Um, and I think the, uh, the future of, of, of whether or not us customers will get access
to, uh, stable coins will kind of, or even yield bearing anything will kind of come down
to like a similar licensing pattern of like money, like money transfer based on what I'm seeing in this like
stable act. And I think it's kind of the direction things are going to go, but it's hard to tell yet.
Like I think, I think Dave said that it's really kind of hard to tell at the moment exactly what
that's going to be. But I think it's very clear that the, on defining Stablecoin as a backed asset one-to-one is what people expected.
No one didn't expect this.
This is exactly what we thought was going to come first.
And that will limit a lot of folks and a lot of projects, including those on this call or others that I know, like good friends of mine, and their ability to market those products in the current way they're marketing them. Is that a bad thing? I don't know. It's
not that hard for a project to, you know, slightly switch the marketing around, but
the stable coin, you know, modicum is definitely going to be captured by regulation and therefore
by banking institutions. And they're going to distribute their dollars in a much more efficient way than we are. We
haven't even brought in new people to crypto yet. I mean, it's all, you know,
we haven't figured it out in a way that
they're still sitting there, you know, so our dream of completely eliminating, or not eliminating, but kind of sidestepping the banking system is not looking like it's going to be a reality if there's still demand for dollars, which was there.
You know, Bitcoin is kind of the only asset that maybe.
Yeah, I mean, it's good and bad, right? It sets the standard, protects consumers, but also totally instantiates the banks as the holders of said dollars and treasuries.
And it's just like, you know, it's like a bittersweet clarity moment.
Yeah, yeah.
This is, you know, for the best part where my mind shakes out on all this.
So glad to see that.
I'm still being able to at least think about this in the same way as you big brains.
New on, your hand is raised.
Would love to hear your take on all of this.
Yeah, I'm actually just going to kind of answer with what Mike was saying there.
I'm actually not too against it, to be totally honest.
Obviously, we are marketing ourselves as a stable coin and this is
the way we see it, but if I, let me just like step out of my founder mode,
shilling my project kind of mode and just look at like myself as a crypto
user, you know, first of all, I mean, we've been here through Tether, through
USDC, and you could think of all the times you're like, is it fully backed?
Oh my God, is it fully backed?
And not having to worry about that anymore is actually going to be quite the load off.
And so from this point of view, I think that things are good.
Also, and I'm just picking this at random just because it's kind of big, but like, you know,
Athena, like is Athena a trading strategy or is it a stablecoin?
You know, okay, so it's a good question, right?
And clarity on this, and if we have to change the way
that we market our thing just to make sure
that there's a little more consumer protection,
a little better understanding of how things are,
wouldn't be the end of the world as far as I'm concerned.
So although, you know, I don't like the concept of banks earning yield
and banning the people from getting a piece of that, I don't like that. But the end result,
at least in the short term, I think is a good thing, actually, for everybody. And then just
one more part I want to mention is, you know, America, Europe, they are not the whole world,
is, you know, America, Europe, they are not the whole world, right? And so they are big,
they're a big part of the world, you know, but, you know, people can innovate all over the world.
And if people do come up with something interesting, like, yeah, maybe you can't
earn yield on your USDC, but you can stake it in, you know, shady protocol 75 and get,
you know, get your 60% APY. Like like these things will exist it'll just take a couple
extra clicks i don't think it's an end of the world and i think overall it's going to be good
at least in the short term can't believe i'm saying that but that's what i'm saying
appreciate it i appreciate you coming at that with so much transparency and
yeah just again just massive shout out to all of our speakers today i've learned so so much on the show um let's let's flip let's let's hit reverse a little bit
here and like we've talked a little bit about the positives the negatives and what it means for
the you know individuals and the builders what does it mean for the stable coins in the u.s
overall like say this does work what are we looking at
here in in the the longer term future like what does stable coins really having that like major
adoption having that clarity and that regulation in a way where people just continue to just absorb
this stuff and buy more and more of it and therefore the market caps become incredibly
larger than they are today which
is still in the billions what what does that look like for the users what does that look for like for
the us would love any context really on like what you guys feel is is coming next if this thing does
go well which you know i think even though we're trying to be balanced here i think most of us are
bullish on the long-term implications of all of this being a little bit more regulated and just approvably able to be used.
Mike, do you want to take this one first?
I'm seeing no hands.
I've obviously undersold those worthless jackpoints.
Yeah, the U.S., well, it's definitely, I think, to Nuan's point, it's definitely not the only show in town.
It is a huge show in town.
And we're talking about money.
You know, we're talking about, I mean, do you guys want U.S. dollars when you stable up or not, right?
And most people are going to, well, yeah, you stable coin in dollars.
So, you know, it's going to be an interesting play to see how the banks interface with crypto in some way.
Because once you're stabled up, you realize how much better it is than dollars because
of the ability to move stablecoins around.
Before, it is still regulated.
Obviously, money transfer is regulated and there's KYC and there's limitations and everything else.
So I think we're going to start to see the rise of like a non-custodial payments world.
That kind of more like an open source payments world where perhaps the best interface isn't, doesn't really look like a wallet, you know.
But it is ultimately a wallet.
Like there's a lot of really interesting players that, you know, we've never ultimately a wallet. Like there's a lot of really interesting players
that, you know, we've never had on this call, to be honest, but like Web3 off and these guys who
are onboarding people and actually doing what we've all said we wanted to do. And so, you know,
I think the U.S. is going to lead that charge and we'll just have to see. Dave, I saw your hand up. I'd love to jump over.
Yeah, I think, and I definitely agree with your line of thought there. I would just add, you know, I don't think that the actual effects of the legislation, if you're just talking about
what is this going to mean in the crypto space, you know, just thinking about what these laws are, are going to be immediate. You know, first of all,
even if the bills are passed tomorrow, there's an 18-month implementation phase. So, you know,
we're already looking at the end of 2026. Like, that's a lifetime in the crypto space. We might
be in a completely different cycle or part of the cycle by then. So who really knows?
But yeah, I think one of the big implications, you're going to see a rush of TradFi to try to
get some of these licenses. And I think you're going to see a bunch of new stable coins just
come into play from banks and other things. That's sort of a mixed bag, I think a little bit, um, you know,
definitely in other cycles, people are, have always been waiting, you know, when's all this
institutional cash and involvement going to come in the crypto space. And now you're going to get
that, you know, for better or, you know, for worse. But, uh, you know, hopefully I think in,
in the macro sense, like this will create some momentum. You know, it definitely like
cements the thought that, you know, it's no longer the old regime in the United States. You know,
we're under, it's something new. As I mentioned at the outset, you know, legislation, this is
some kind of something that it's very difficult to change. So it's much more cemented. So hopefully it leads to other topics being attacked too. And it's not going to be perfect. I think
it's like, you know, you think about like the government process is never perfect for anybody.
And, you know, this legislation and whatever comes after it is not going to be, you know,
it's certainly not going to be perfect, but it's a lot better than what we had before where it's like, you know, you didn't even know if what was going to happen
with, you know, stable coins or, you know, something as, you know, that was as harmless as that, right?
It's like, you just didn't know anything. There was no certainty. And it's like, we're going to start
to get some in the space and hopefully this is
just the beginning um but i think we'll see where that goes but yeah there's a bunch of different
i think macro implications amazing stuff dave and yeah look great great context as always for
the show today massive massive shout out to all our speakers and listeners again for the final
time as we get close to the end of the show.
If you like this sort of content, likes, retweets and follows for all of our speakers up on stages, how you show support for it.
It's what lets us know that you want more of this sort of content.
Look, really, really great context here.
section to get as many thoughts and as many opinions as possible on how to navigate this for
you know somebody who isn't as familiar in what this actually is going to mean and specifically
my question would be for all of our speakers you know feel free to add as much context as you would
like here what's your best non-financial advice? This is not a financial advice show, listeners,
but what is your best non-financial advice for stablecoin users and investors navigating this
new landscape? What should they be aware of? What is the overarching take that you guys have
for somebody in that position right now? And just in case it heats up any hands we've got dave and bracket both on 40
jack points we've got new one on 20 still well within the game and stake stone you're on 10 so
we need to get you get those numbers pumped up new one is coming in for the 30 which means just one
take away from getting it and you on mike over to Oh my gosh, you got me laughing. Those are rookie numbers.
Got to pump those numbers up.
No, I would say just, I'm going to keep this quite short.
But just for those of us talking about this, the big boys are coming.
This is serious stuff.
A lot of people looking at this are just going to look like, oh, cool, we can shave 1%, 2% off our infrastructure costs by going on blockchain. And that's what's coming.
And that's what the future is going to look like.
And that's okay.
But for the average users,
just don't forget, man, this is still crypto.
It's still the Wild West.
And just be careful.
That's my non-financial advice.
That's what I've got for you.
Just be careful.
All right, I hope that's not too abrupt.
But yeah, that's how I feel.
No, no, dude.
Honestly, I was just letting that sink in for a second because I think it's really, really important.
And look, great, great take as well.
Anybody else?
Stakestone, how about you?
I want to get your numbers up here.
What's your take on this?
What's your best non-financial advice for stablecoin users
and investors navigating this new landscape i think uh you know as you know i mean i came from
traditional finance as well i guess the the main the the main thing that most people will say will
be like you know do your due diligence don't put all your eggs in one basket. Whether you're holding stable coins,
altcoins, Bitcoin, Ethereum and all that,
or even just other assets outside Web3 as well,
just manage your risks
and only use what you can afford to lose.
Great stuff.
Dave, any closing thoughts from you on this one
yeah sure i mean i i think you know just echoing those thoughts like these laws whether it's in
stables or other spaces will certainly provide some protection um i think that's a good thing
but you know there's laws in a lot of areas society it doesn't mean that it's perfect
so um you know i think it'll be very
important to watch, you know, the players in the space and see who's complying and who's even going
above and beyond, you know, like, so especially with like audits in the stable coins, you know,
whether they're required to be made public or, you know, who's going to, you know, who's going
to go above and beyond and
just make it make sure it's public, that the reserves are backed. And it's less of a trust.
So, you know, I think those are important things to watch. But yeah, I mean, hopefully, it's the
start in the US of, you know, people have been have been talking about regulatory clarity in the
US. But I've always felt like that's a bit of a misnomer, because that's, you know, people have been talking about regulatory clarity in the U.S., but I have always felt like that's a bit of a misnomer because that's, you know, regulatory clarity, if the clarity is really horrible, it does not really help that much if it says, like, you can't do anything.
But I think it's more like this should hopefully be a workable solution.
And hopefully it's one of many workable solutions that will, you know, be promulgated in the space. So, you know, I'm
just hoping that this is the start of things to come and the momentum isn't lost. But yeah,
my advice is just to watch closely and see who's, you know, complying and see who can,
you know, sort of go above and beyond and just be transparent.
Great stuff. And guys, look, we are getting really close to the end of the show so i
want to thank dave nibiru nuon and stakestone for all of the alpha today all of the incredible takes
dave does take the w for the jack points unfortunately they're entirely worthless
and i really wish they weren't because there's been a lot of value added in return and you get
nothing for it a little bit like that yield that's not going to anyone anytime soon.
But also Mike is in the hot seat as well with the W.
And that's not just because he is the host of the show and there's obvious bias there,
but also because he did have as many takes as Dave.
And Mike, I want to throw the mic back over to you to close us out.
Any updates, any milestones, anything you want to share on Brackets behalf?
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just leave on the last point we're talking about.
Just, you know, stablecoins unlock a lot of stuff beyond just crypto nonsense.
You know what I mean?
There's a lot of good things in crypto that are microcosms of what people want at TradFi.
But think about the billions of people on earth that have to send money around.
We are looking at lowering the costs of sending that money by a lot.
Potentially with the acceptance of stable coins by nation states as like,
you know,
a real thing,
especially in the United States,
because we're like the number one exported thing for remittances.
And the goal,
I think,
I think it was like a united nations goal where like three
percent was the was the goal uh for for most corridors by 2030 and i think that could be
actually achieved using stable coins like 100 so i think as as far as people are concerned i think
i think everyone's pretty mentioned it manage your risk be careful don't put all your eggs in one basket um survive use a use a hardware uh wallet signer
uh you don't you don't think you need one until you until you realize you need one
for both things um and then yeah as far as brackets concerned yeah man we're we're really
excited we had our eath vaults we're going to be releasing some usdc vaults and working on some
bitcoin stuff really excited about this bitcoin play that we're we're going to be releasing some USDC vaults and working on some Bitcoin stuff. Really excited about this
Bitcoin play that we're going to be putting out where, you know, liquidity and DeFi is very much
a ceiling. It's just like PVP circular points games. And that's not really that exciting,
to be honest. I think I think people really want to access like real products with reputable people.
And so we're working on that. It's a little harder than I think doing stuff completely like on chain and doing everything completely. You know, it's great. Those are
commodity products, but doing something actually unique is, is actually really challenging because
you have to navigate all these legal issues, but we're really excited by and keep an eye out for
some stuff coming up from us soon. Thanks. Awesome stuff, Mike. Again, thank you to all
of our speakers, all of our listeners that tuned in and what a banger of a show. We're going to play this one out now. Thank you.
Host
Bracket
from
Bracket Labs
