Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Stacks DeFi Show #101
Recorded: March 3, 2026 Duration: 0:58:39Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Hello, everybody.
Welcome, welcome.
We're just getting everyone to join in and then we'll take things from there. Thank you. Thank you. We're just waiting for Dylan to get here from Bitflow and potentially a few other people,
so hang tight. Thank you. All right, all right all right i think dylan is here so he will sooner rather than later
make it up to the to the speaker speaker slot but um yeah the advisor is out today so
um more updates from him next week but um but yeah in the meantime welcome everyone to uh
episode 101 of the stacksacks DeFi Show,
living proof that we continue beyond the number 100, of course, as promised.
And yeah, this is the Stacks DeFi Show, you know, the place where Stacks DeFi builders come together
to discuss all the latest developments in the ecosystem, you know, with regards to their applications and so on.
Kindly convened by the Stacks handle.
But the only thing that they ask us to mention
is that everything that we say here is for informational purposes only
and should not be considered financial advice.
But other than that, we have full free reign here
and we're free to discuss whatever we want. But other than that, we have full free reign here,
and we're free to discuss whatever we want.
And at the same time, this is also the place where we come together to learn our updates from the other builders in Stacks.
So it's a nice combination there to combine both the building aspect and the catching up and updating aspect.
But yeah, let's get over to some introductions.
I guess I'll go first until Dylan is up here.
But yeah, I'm Tycho, co-founder of Zest Protocol, which is the largest DeFi protocol on stacks in terms of TVL, and also contributed to Stacking DAO, the liquid staking protocol for stacks.
And yeah, I'll let Dylan introduce himself when he gets up here.
But yeah, it's been a big week for Zest Protocol. Let me just spin a couple of tweets that are relevant to our progress from
the last week. Because a lot has happened, right? We've launched Zest Protocol v2, which was a big That's exactly one week ago. We had the spaces.
And yeah, it's gone quick.
Let's put it that way.
It's gone very quick with a TVL on Zest Protocol v2.
It already surpassed the TVL of just a regular Zest Protocol v1.
Yeah, surpassed that very quickly. Let me just pin the announcement tweet right here.
But yeah, surpassed that very quickly and we're sitting now at over 500 SBTC as well
as almost $10 million in stables, $9 million to borrow.
That's the tweet here all the way to the right
with the latest TVL numbers.
So about 5 million USDH, about 4 million USDCX
and more coming.
So yeah, this is really great news
for the Stacks ecosystem
to really get the borrowing and lending
off the ground here.
And yeah, so excited to see those numbers tick up.
If you haven't migrated yet and you have yielding assets on Zest Protocol V1,
I would highly recommend you to do so because the yield is compressing on the V1 slowly but surely.
And the big yields are on the V2.
So that's where you definitely want to be.
And also obviously to enjoy all the great features
that the V2 has to offer when it comes to risk groups, right?
So more safer, but at the same time,
more aggressive borrowing options,
as well as non-rehypothecation.
So you can borrow against your SPTC without
lending it out at the same time while still pocketing the 3.82% dual stacking yield. And
also the soft liquidations. If you get into liquidation territory on the Zest Protocol
V2, you will just be brought back to
health unless the market swings very violently and only then full liquidation becomes available.
So those are really the key features of v2. But yeah, we're very excited that v2 TVL has almost
hit 50 million, 50 million dollars that is. And most of that being SBTC followed by stablecoins.
So really two, you know, the two things that we really built S-Protocol to do
to deliver that borrowing and lending experience for BTC
or rather yield borrow and lend experience for BTC.
And yes, then on the legacy market, there's still around 23 million TVL that's sitting there, which brings us to a total of 71.5.
It's a very exciting and big number to have on the protocol.
So very proud of that.
But yeah, without further ado, let's
see if Dylan is already here. He says he has requested. And I am not sure if the person
behind the Stacks handle has seen that. So let's see, Rick.
Let me write him.
There we go.
Okay, well, otherwise I can share a couple more updates from the Stacks handle
as we wait for Dylan to get here and for Rick from Stacks to bring up Dylan.
Yeah, let's see what else there is to discuss or to talk about. I mean, I think the broader thing that's obviously exciting
on the Stacks network is just the fact that there's still a lot of SBTC
circulating here, right?
Over 3,000 SBTC, 3,700 currently.
And of that, around 700 is on Zest protocol,
which is, you know, that's a bit over 20%, which is a really, yeah, that's a really high number, right?
To have like almost 20% of the bridged assets deployed in one DeFi protocol, as well as in DeFi generally.
DeFi generally.
Then also
the new deployment of
USDH on Zest Protocol really paves
the way for the HPTC launch of
Hermetica. So this is really what was
needed for them to
go live with their
yield solution built on top of Zest
Protocol.
I'll expect an announcement
there sooner rather than later.
That's definitely something you want to keep an eye on.
And yeah, then also tomorrow, on the day after tomorrow,
there's the Bitflow concentrated liquidity going live.
So I think that's definitely something to check out.
And Dylan is here to share a bit more about that
when we have him up.
So all the pieces are coming together here
for a great DeFi ecosystem.
So yeah, let me quickly make sure
to buzz the person behind the Stacks handle.
Give me one second. I hope I don't disconnect when I do this, when I try calling him so that we can get in here.
All right. Yeah, so those are some of the main things for this week. Let me see if there's any points or anything that you're bringing up in the comments that
we should discuss.
I think all very encouraging.
And yeah, I'm just giving Eric a phone call to see if we can make this happen.
All right.
And yeah, so those are the main things happening across the ecosystem.
But we really want to hear from Dylan, of course,
about the HODL MM launch, what the first pairs are going to be
that people can trade there, as well as incentives,
and all of these exciting things.
So we'll just stay muted, unless anyone
wants to come up and talk.
But yeah, we need whoever's behind the Stacks handle
to make this happen.
So give us a brief about it. Thank you. Hey.
Hey.
Yeah, this is great.
It seems to work.
I just got the advisor and passed up to check this out.
But yeah, you're here, right?
Just check if you can hear me.
I'm here.
I'm here. Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. Good. Good, good're here, right? Just check if you can hear me. I'm here. I'm here.
Fantastic. Good. Good, good, good.
Well, tell us all about HODLAM and what's happening this week.
Yeah, good to be here.
For anybody who doesn't know, I'm Dylan, co-founder of Bitlow Finance.
We're building a DEX for Bitcoiners.
And yeah, we've got a very exciting launch this week.
Finally bringing this institution-grade concentrated liquidity engine for on-chain BTC and USD trading volume.
This is really the first institution-grade solution for that pair that settles on Bitcoin. And yeah, so we're excited about kind of all the different things coming together at the right time to really help expand Bitcoin markets on-chain.
It's great to see that we have Circle deploying USDCX.
That's not live on Stacks, so one-to-one USDC-backed stablecoin that's plugged directly into Circle's multi-chain ecosystem.
And on top of that, we have Stacks, which is where we're building.
which is where we're building.
And I've got fast transactions
with Bitcoin Finality.
I get the simple L1 to L2
interoperability with BTC.
I already got, I think,
over like 4,000, 4,500 or so,
maybe BTC on chain already.
And then you plug in this last piece
with the HODLM that just delivers this institution-grade order book style AMM.
And I think this is going to be a big unlock for Bitcoin trading on chain. Whether it was the process of getting dollars to BTC or getting Bitcoin to dollars with different trust assumptions
and different bridges,
kind of maybe a pain that really has basically led to
like 99% of that volume still remaining on centralized exchanges.
So yeah, excited about what we built.
You know, this is the most important pair in our industry.
So it needs to be like more of that volume needs to be self-sustaining,
on-chain, settling on Bitcoin.
And yeah, it's been a long time working on this.
So I think we started last summer,
and make sure you get your alerts on for this week.
I guess maybe Tyco spilled the beans a little bit already.
So that is dropping tomorrow.
But, you know, don't tell anyone that's the alpha.
I see, I see.
So tomorrow on the Bitflow Spaces
where all the details will be shared.
Yes, that's correct.
That's correct.
Tomorrow on March 4th.
And then we'll march forth into a new era of Bitcoin DeFi.
Amazing.
Amazing, amazing, amazing.
And in terms of, I guess, regardless of when the exact launch date is, of course, wink, wink.
What are the plans for the first pair, the first things that can be traded on Hotline?
traded on that on on on hot limit yeah we'll start with the just a few pairs but you know
that are critical to the ecosystem and uh so you know you'll be able to trade with sbtc and stacks
and usdcx uh which is great and um it will be expanding to uh some other assets that a lot of folks care about in the Bitcoin world.
You know, starting with some runes like Dog Army Super Strong.
They've been testing this for, you know, months alongside us.
And I think they're excited about what that can mean for, you know,
like the free and fair launch movement.
You know, taking control of their own destiny for the token,
not needing that to be supplied on some centralized exchange
or doing a token deal with a centralized exchange.
The community can rally together and decide where they would like to deploy.
And that market for those assets can live on-chain, which is pretty cool.
It will expand shortly after these few initial pairs with SBDC and Stax and USDCX into assets
like that.
Also liquid staking tokens and some additional stablecoins like Bitcoin backed stablecoins
in the ecosystem like USDH.
Yeah, amazing.
And of course, I mean, you know, critical pairs for the Stacks ecosystem, I think, have
to include the Leo token.
Are there meme coins going to be going to be tradable as well on the hot limit?
Yeah, I think this is very similar infrastructure to what the president launched his meme coin on.
The DLMM infrastructure on Meteora was sufficient for a presidential meme coin launch,
and it definitely is going to be sufficient for Leo as well, when the time comes.
vision for Leo as well, when the time comes.
Yeah, for those of you who are not familiar, of course, Leo is Muneeb's cat, right?
The founder of Stacks and currently the leading project token on the Stacks network.
But yeah, very exciting.
And I suppose you're working with all the key teams in the Stacks ecosystem
to boost up their liquidity, right?
Whether it's staked Stacks to SDX from StackingDAO,
I suppose with Hermetica and USDH and those pairs.
I guess that's kind of a...
Do you have something in mind or some sort of sequence in mind of which pairs to focus
on first and then what people could expect the first weeks into such a launch?
Yeah, I don't want to promise anything about certain TVL or pairs, but definitely the pairs
that you care about are going to be there.
We'll be able to expand quickly
to other assets that are important,
supporting all the partners and different protocols.
But when we thought about this
and when we were designing it,
there were, I suppose,
like kind of three or four different groups
that make sense as like target users.
You kind of like power users on the liquidity provider side
and power users on the trader side.
That's normal for DEX.
You know, a two-sided marketplace, people have to deposit
and people have to earn.
But we really loved what Meteora did with their LP army rollout
and making this new infrastructure, which is very high quality,
precise, offers that kind of market maker tooling and trying to make that accessible to everyone so
that anyone can become a liquidity provider. I think that's going to become more and more
I think that's going to become more and more obvious that people will actually be able
to do that with some of the work that AIBTC is doing.
So kind of like writing code used to be hard, maybe Bitcoin DeFi used to be hard, but yeah,
now not so much for either one. So I think that helps to make, you know, with our infrastructure being,
you know, it's the best stuff that we've ever built. But, you know, like low latency, very
easily ingestible by machines to check quotes or to rebalance liquidity. You know, sort of at the speed of Nakamoto on the Stack Cell 2.
Yeah, we made it so it was good enough for institutions and machines,
but then I think the agents are going to make it accessible for people as well.
You can imagine the Leo fam and the dog army saying, all right, let's get a coordinated agent campaign together where we're just going to, this is the diamond hand crew and we're
going to make this market on chain and you're not getting any of our bags for less than
this market cap.
Our website doesn't, for the hotline doesn't even show you, it shows you the different prices you could supply liquidity at, but we haven't done an update to show you the market cap.
Not a huge change.
I'm sure we could probably do it in a day, but if you're working with an agent, you might
not even need us to.
You could say, I want to deploy my Leo bags on the moon. And you're not getting any of my Leo
until you meet me at the moon.
And if you get a whole community
right around that mission, it could be interesting.
Yeah, no, very cool, very exciting.
Let's see if there's anyone asking
any HODL-Lemon related questions in here.
People are asking any word on CMO.
I guess we are not at Stacks Lab,
so we wouldn't be able to answer that question for you, unfortunately.
But yeah, and Dylan, have you heard any other things around the ecosystem
that you think are important to touch on or to mention
that maybe we didn't cover yet
or anything that you're personally excited about for the coming week or so.
Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited about the narrative of the on-chain Bitcoin economy
and with what Zest has released and with what Bitblood has released with concentrated
liquidity and with some of the updates that are on the roadmap for Stacks with payments
and privacy, like shielded transactions and also having some self-custodial minting and
staking. There are a lot of reasons to think that an on-chain economy can thrive when you piece
all these things together.
And then on top of that, I just love the work that the AIBDC group has been doing because
it makes it so much more accessible to people. Yeah. Yeah, man. No, awesome.
Awesome, awesome.
Awesome.
That's great stuff.
Anything else you think we should talk about?
Well, I'm curious maybe your take on it, but I think that there's…
Bass and Solana are definitely crushing it in terms of trying to win over the agent narrative.
The agentic economy is going to live on Solana or it's going to live on base. I think a lot of that is centered around stable coins. And suppose that maybe Staxx had had a multiple moment or
something before any of those chains, right? And suppose that it was centered around stablecoins.
There's a good chance that maybe BASE or Solana could have still siphoned over a lot
of those users to their chain.
Would have been great for Stacks, right?
But because it was more like a stablecoin-centric approach, I think that there's already a lot of network effects and activity there,
so you could see that making sense for them.
But I don't think the same thing would happen if it was a BTC-centric approach.
If there was this blossoming network of BTC-centric agents
that are trying to earn more BTC and maybe borrowing against it, putting that to work
that are trying to earn more BTC and maybe borrowing against it,
or trading, trying to find ARB opportunities. Or even just paying each other for doing work.
They want this kind of permissionless money, they can't be stopped. I think that that type of
I think that that type of BTC-centric agent network could really thrive here in a way
that is difficult to reproduce on other chains.
Yeah, you mean on Stacks specifically?
Yeah.
When I say here, that's what I mean by here.
I'm a Stacks maxi.
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah no i think i think i think you like that's
that's definitely i absolutely like i'm i'm on that on that page right i mean i think broadly with
l1s what what we're probably about to see is that you know this is this infrastructure right that
we've that we've built defi or you know they are ones or blockchains in general, they're just going
to be used by AI agents as trust layer, right?
So when things become more agent to agent, right, instead of human to agent or, you know,
everyone interacting with his or her own agents to get output, if it becomes more agent to
agent, then how do those agents kind of trust each other, right?
How do they, how do they transact?
How do they, you know, establish some kind of basis of cooperation
of, okay, I'm going to do this work and expend these tokens
if you do that work and expend those tokens, right?
Tokens in like an AI token sense.
And yeah, and that's, you know,
I think that's really what L1s are going to be for, right?
So I think at some point, whether it's this year or next year or later,
but I don't think it will be much later than that,
I think L1s are just going to have a really,
are going to have their kind of mold book moments
where these agents are going to be set free,
set loose on layer ones to interact with each other,
to transact with each other, to be
economically active with each other.
And then we'll be like, oh my god, these chains or this infrastructure is actually going to
be not infrastructure for humans and maybe also not even infrastructure for institutions
as much, but really infrastructure for the agent to agent economy.
And I think that's where DeFi will play a big role.
And if that's going to happen, of course, a lot of that will happen on Ethereum, a lot
of that will happen on Solana.
But naturally, people will also look to chains with a differentiated use case.
So Ethereum, Solana, that all makes sense.
So it probably makes a lot of sense.
But outside of that, then there's stacks.
And that's probably kind of it.
Obviously, Layer 2 is for Ethereum or so on.
But if it comes to a Layer 1 or Layer 2 with a really differentiated use case,
I mean, that's stacks, right?
That's what we're doing here.
So, yeah, I think that's broadly my take.
So we'll probably be, you know, talking to our children at some point,
and then we'll be like, yeah, you know, yeah.
We actually use DeFi protocols ourselves by hand, you know, through UI,
and we would, like, press buttons, and then we would, like, read the post conditions,
and we'd be like, okay, yeah, this makes sense,
this is safe. And they'll be like, oh my god,
really? You did that by hand? You had to do that?
How scary,
how crazy
that you did that.
It's not built for humans, it's built for machines.
Could you see that? It's like, yeah,
we were kind of thinking that, but it was not so
obvious in the moment.
So, yeah, that's kind of broadly my perspective on all this.
Yeah, we used to argue about tabs versus spaces, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah, so I think that's, I mean, of course, I'm very excited.
I'm very bullish on institutional adoption.
I think it will be a big driver.
But, you know, when you see how institutions interact on chain and, you know, how many steps they have
and how very often they can't manage to get very simple things done
because either they have set up some kind of, you know, some kind of means to create checks in their organization,
but then some of the people in their organization are not really smart enough to understand what those checks are and slowing everything down.
It's like you wonder if that's really the future of this industry or if it's rather going to be something that's more scalable, more native, and much more faster
growing than the institutions that we already have.
Well, if we build all this infrastructure here that is attractive and sufficient for
institutions, even with the HODLM, we've done testing and onboarding with professional on-chain
market maker shops and made sure
it's up to their standard.
So if it's good enough for their machines, which maybe they're running autonomous processes,
but they're not fully handed over to an agent, then you can really see a picture forming
for what this on-chain Bitcoin economy might look like.
And then if it's there, why would agents not participate in that?
You know, if you've got a bot and you'd like to say, hey, go,
hey, agent, go earn me some more BTC. There's other people doing it. If I'm not earning more
If I'm not earning more BTC, I'm getting left behind.
BTC, I'm getting left behind. And then you've got a network of agents trying to
And then you've got a network of agents trying to build up their,
just stack sats on top of sats.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I can only concur with that.
I do think it'll be be smaller amounts to start with.
People are not going to hand over their bags and ties to an agent.
Prompt injection is definitely a concern.
You've got to be careful with all that stuff.
We always say not financial advice, but maybe not agentic advice either.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's kind of like the frontier where we're at now.
I mean, people are playing around with AI on chain.
And we also see some cool examples on Stacks, right?
Like the Satoshi AI as well as the AI BTC dev, right?
And that makes me think of something, actually.
There was one thing that was interesting, that the dev behind Satoshi AI
recently tweeted, which is a very useful developer tool to,
kind of like SIN press, right?
But for stacks, I think I would recommend you to check this out.
I think it could be quite useful for just any end-to-end testing
UI workflow. But yeah, I mean, we see these kind of, you know, a lot of people experimenting with
things in the world of AI and on-chain, or just generally, right? Like also AI people who don't
really have much to do with crypto. But, you know, their kind of realization is often like,
oh, this is not safe enough, right?
Or, oh, I try to, you know, give this agent, you know,
access to my device, but, oh, it does all these things
or it takes certain, you know, pieces of context
and, you know, really kind of goes rogue, right?
A little bit the example of this AI security
researcher at
Meta who, you know, by accident
had a lot of her emails deleted
Clawpot.
Or OpenClaw.
But yeah,
we are very good at security.
We're very paranoid. We're very
good at being really on top of our shit
when it comes to having things right from a security perspective.
And in AI, people haven't really been focusing on that
because it's been like single player, right?
It's been like you with your terminal trying to prompt things
or get the model to do things.
But here in crypto, we're used to multiplayer, right?
So we're used to people trying to exploit the system
or, like, trying to find, like, open networks
where anyone can come in and exploit the system
and then having to find ways to kind of patch that
to, you know, not have those exploit routes open.
And, I mean, not in, in like sort of smart contract exploit terms,
more in like social engineering or all these kind of things.
I mean, you know, that's why our default protocols are so safe
just because we have so much, you know, experience with all this crap.
Whereas like AI people don't really have that, right?
And so that's really what we can add there.
And I think what, yeah, it's probably the next thing that AI needs to really scale and become more useful for people.
I see we've got a chat down there in the audience who's waving their hand.
Are you looking to come up?
Yeah, I mean, we do need Rick kind of for this because we are both.
Are you co-host? I mean, I just see you as a listener, actually. Yeah, I mean, we do need Rick kind of for this because we are both… are you co-host?
I mean, I just see you as a listener, actually.
Yeah, just a speaker, not co-host.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't be co-host anymore because of some issue and then we've been trying to get…
Ah, someone invited me to be co-host.
Yeah, I think I can try to be co-host.
There we go.
The advisor quickly came online to bring some guys up.
I don't think I can hear you guys,
but if you want to say something, feel free to go ahead.
Hey, good morning, Tycho.
Good morning, Dylan.
You guys hear me?
Yes.
Loud and clear.
Just shout out Blockface, GPSC, NEO, DarthDude.
See you guys down there, Stax Africa.
I had a question for Dylan.
So around the dog army and the tremendous effort that Bitflow has done
around supporting that project. I've seen that there, I forget the name of the
place, but maybe there's more than one that are out there accumulating dog as I think it's been
used as a strategic reserve of dog. And I heard you talking about Leo and, you know, us,
everybody banding together and, you know, putting a price on the memes and such.
I haven't seen anything about Bitflow, but is there a Bitflow strategic reserve of dog or is
there plans around that? I really like to see
you know everything that they're out there doing trying to push meme coins in
general on Bitcoin and it just seems like there's more that maybe we could do
maybe stacks could do to support it seems like there's they're looking over
their shoulder a little bit about what you guys have
done.
And it seems like people are,
are checking it out more,
but we're just wondering if there's more that we can do.
Is there anything more that you can say that's maybe coming that we're going
to find out?
Thanks.
Yeah,
of course.
I appreciate that.
And we,
you know,
we love the dog army for sure.
I would love the, the, the, the, the We love the dog army, for sure. I would love the HODL-MM
is really great. There are extra customizations that we can do on the contract level as well.
So, for example, maybe for a dog USDCX pool or a dog SBDC pool.
The fees that are collected, right,
could go to some wallet or to some like smart contract wallet
where it's just, you know, uses those fees to buy more dog,
which I think, you know, helps like showcase
that the protocol is like more aligned with the communities that we're trying to help create markets for.
And the same thing for Leo as well.
So just an additional function to create upward pressure on the price
and not be super extractive.
So that's something that I think could be fun to do
for the dog arming, for Leo, for some other tokens.
Yeah.
And let's see.
Yeah, this idea of like, we can have a bunch of different pools for dog if we want to, right?
Maybe we'll have like a realistic market pool.
But then maybe we also have like this moonshot pool. But then maybe we also have this moonshot pool. And it just demonstrates the
very precise tooling that you have with this new concentrated liquidity infrastructure to say,
I only want to provide market-making liquidity in this price range. And you could do it for both sides or you could do it just for one side. And, you know, if the community comes together,
like, I think Dog is great about this
in such a grassroots way already
with the community that it has without,
you know, without, I think it's on Kraken, right?
But like didn't get like, you can see Leonidas
and like maybe talking some smack
about Binance every now and then. But yeah, like to not have to rely on that and to have these
Bitcoin meme coins, like having these self-sustaining markets on chain and then to have a
community say, look, like you're not getting our bags for anything less than a billion dollar market
cap or dog. This is the number one meme coin on Bitcoin, layer one.
And if you just compare to some of the other meme coins
around other ecosystems,
this thing's crazy undervalued.
And the dog army is strong.
So they can take control of their own destiny
and say, we're going to define this market on-chain.
I think I'm delusional enough to think that
we could really make a difference here
and see Dog fly past the billion-dollar valuation again
at some point.
So yeah, I think the tooling...
Let me illustrate this another way too.
If you wanted to do like a trade with like the UNEV2 style infrastructure that a lot of like the Bitcoin layer twos were supporting,
you had like, if you wanted to keep your slippage,
your price impact below half a percent,
below half a percent.
In other words, trading $100 for $99.50,
you had to have 800x the TVL
compared to the size of your swap
in order to make that happen.
So yes, the UNIV2 can kind of give you
some exponential price curve,
but it's also like who's going to come in with size
because you're getting absolutely wrecked.
Now that we have this order book style AMN,
you're going to be able to have total freedom
for how you as a project or a community as a whole would like to
individually, I guess, supply their own liquidity to the market. So yeah, a lot more freedom to
a lot more control. It's very precise. We built it to be very fast as well.
Getting data faster for you than you can get it on
chain.
But then, you know, let's just say our systems go wonky for any reason.
We've also built in like a fallback service so you can get this data from directly on
chain for any reason.
Trying to build on as many safeguards as possible for this stuff.
And yeah, I'm really, really excited for this, guys.
I mean, Biplo, we try to build things the right way.
I think it's part of the reason that we've lasted, you know, as long as we have.
And I think that this is going to be like that, that level of difference in like swap
volume or like swap efficiency, I think is going to have a big
impact on the overall volume.
So yeah, excited for this to go out.
Definitely set your alerts on the Bitflow account.
It's pretty cool.
That's pretty cool.
Awesome. yeah awesome anyone else wants to uh wants to jump in feel free to
hey guys how's it going
hey um i was listening to everything you're saying. I'm living on the agentic side of all of this. So all I want to say is that it's gotten 10 times easier in the past 30 days to program money using stacks and Bitcoin.
program money using Stacks and Bitcoin. What AIBTC is doing and what Toonie did with X402,
I was able to get a prototype working with the Stacks Bitcoin testnet without ever having to
click a single graphical user interface entity. It all happened with Claude through my terminal,
from the wallet creation to
the funding of the testnet tokens to figuring out how to make X402 work. And I almost think it's
like we're monetizing dead internet theory, where agents dominate internet activity. I'm telling my
clients, the enterprise clients, that we used to be in B to B and B to C.
Now it feels like we're in B to A to A to B and B to A to A to C.
And I just want to shout out everyone on Stacks because literally in the last 30 days, I'm a sales guy.
And if I can get programmable money to work, God knows people who know what they're doing can do.
And with HODLMM coming out, I've been talking to
Jacob in the background,
it feels like the future
is here, just not evenly distributed yet.
But what hasn't happened in years
can happen in a day.
Yeah, it's kind of a shame.
We spent a lot of time on the UX,
but maybe
the top consumer. Yeah, we spent a lot of time on the UX. But yeah, maybe it's going to be the top consumer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, when I think about interfaces and I talk to client about screens, I'm like, guys, why are we still talking about screens?
Who's clicking on an interface anymore?
It's funny.
Yeah.
Maybe for those who want to log in and just...
Like a caveman?
I'm going to drag my knuckles on my track.
You're right.
What am I thinking?
Yeah.
I will say we added this new block scroller thing that I really love.
It just makes the page feel even more alive.
So you can see sort of like mempool.space, you'll you know, like moving kind of like an iceberg,
you know, like maybe every once every 10 minutes, right? And then you've got like the stacks blocks
that are just flying by on top and you can see all the transactions that are included and settled
in those blocks. And yeah, so that's nice, nice little feature that apparently no one will see
because they'll all be using agents.
But for the caveman that log in, I think you'll like that feature too.
We did want to make it easy to visually kind of see your strategy, like the different shapes.
You could do a uniform distribution that's flat, or you could do a bell curve shape around the current price,
like a bell curve shape around the current price,
or you could do kind of the inversion of that,
which is the bid ask spread that's common in market making.
But, you know, it's different for each pair, right?
So if you're doing something that's more volatile,
maybe you're doing bid ask.
And then if you're doing like stable swaps,
maybe you really want it to be concentrated
where like most of the volume is going to be happening.
And that's one of the big unlocks, too.
With the classic pools, you kind of have your liquidity spread out
across this infinite price curve.
But with concentrated liquidity, it's very precisely defined
between maybe for a stable swap, like $0.99 and $1.01.
The only last thing I'd say is that Aiden, one of the developers on the team,
he was looking at these agentic solutions.
I was prototyping and he said,
how do we drive more determinism in these systems?
And I found DSPY, D as in David, SPY.
I think that's going to allow us to put probability
in the right seed on the right bus, if that makes sense.
So if you're building with this stuff, DSPY by Stanford allows us to get the best of probability and the best of determinism.
You know, because things with a one in a million chance happen nine times out of ten in this world.
Yeah, great stuff.
Anyone else wants to jump in?
I mean, there's a GP here.
And maybe more people who I don't see because i apparently don't see anyone who's up here yeah what's up guys uh happy tuesday um was having a
really interesting conversation with john ennis yesterday over the timeline talking about uh
the ghost economy behind agents.
He believes that there's going to be some sort of ghost economy and we're not going to understand what they're trading
and how they're finding value in things.
I just thought it was very interesting.
It's going to be cool to see what this space looks like in a year from now,
much less five.
It's just really interesting.
If you're not familiar with John Ennis,
he created NeoSwap here in the Stacks ecosystem.
I've heard about these different NeoSwap parties
and how much fun they were.
And just getting to interact with him
and kind of talk a little bit about,
that kind of blew my mind,
agents finding value in things and you know
we're not going to even understand how they are finding value kind of blew my mind well what's up
guys getting ready you know I've seen dylan teasing on the timeline
uh same with the bitflow handle you know sort of a little countdown's got me got me feeling
kind of bullish and excited um yeah what could that be i don't know man i don't know i i know
you guys have been chipping away and grinding on the HODL MM. It could
be that. That's kind of my theory.
Getting ready for some stuff to go down.
Getting bullish, man. Getting ready. Getting positioned.
That reminds me I need to tweet.
So yeah, just sent out the new one
one day left folks one day left make sure to pin it here you should have been it so that everyone
can see it
yeah amazing amazing i think we're slowly coming to the to the end of the spaces maybe a
couple quick quick outros i can't see everyone who's here so maybe um maybe gpc you want to
you want to start and then uh i guess hand it over to the next person as we wrap things up
yeah man absolutely um you know we're going to be getting together in the stacking down discord for
uh the weekly screen share here in a little bit i'm going to be getting together in the StackingDow Discord for the weekly screen share here in a little bit.
I'm going to be making some content surrounding everything that's going on in the ecosystem.
There's just so much to talk about.
Getting ready for HODL MM launch.
Diving into Zest V2.
There's plenty to cover, so jump on in, man. I'm going to be exploring a little bit of V2 and some of the new features on Zest
as well as talking a little bit about HODL.
So jump into the StackingDow Discord and get activated.
This is the time.
The dev community is stronger than ever.
The incentivization rails for builders are stronger than ever.
We've got partnerships with DoraHacks and Talent Protocol,
and we've got all of these people and devs getting activated.
Michael Blockface talked a little bit about how it's easier than ever
to bring things online, the different apps coming online
are very, very interesting you know synergy one you know this
this past you know hackathon and I'll be looking a little bit into synergy as well so stay in the
know get into the stacking dow discord and put your bullhorns on. Let's go.
Awesome, Dylan, do you want to go next?
I've said a whole bunch of stuff today. Listen, the HODLMM is launching tomorrow, concentrated liquidity on Bitcoin. It is the best like institution grade, you know,
venue for BTC and USD markets. We're going to see this liquidity ramp up over the coming weeks. And
yeah, excited to finally share this with everybody. This is, you know, it's the most
important market in our industry. It's like been very embarrassing. It's like, you know, it's the most important market in our industry. It's, like, been very embarrassing.
It's, like, you know, the DEX infrastructure that we had just lagging behind everybody else.
So the hot element of change is that, yeah, we built it in a very, you know, intentional way around Bitcoin and its active users.
around Bitcoin and its active users.
And I'm excited to see everyone trading with better rates
and earning more yield per dollar of capital
or sat of capital deployed.
Yeah, well, amazing.
I think everyone should join the space tomorrow,
the Bitflow space space to be there.
Yeah, we'll have a launch party.
It should be 3 p.m. Eastern.
Keep that in mind, guys.
3 p.m. Eastern tomorrow.
The show continues.
And yeah, we're obviously going to be back next week,
same time, same day,
with 102 of the Stacks DeFi show.
So we're not going anywhere.
But until then, make sure to check out, well, obviously,
the space from Bitflow tomorrow, but also Zest Protocol.
I mean, the V2 launch has been a great success.
Almost $50 million of TVL on the V2 within one week
and $10 million of stables.
So, yeah, more to come.
More to come.
And episodes 100 and 101.
Pretty good, Tycho.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pretty good.
We've been going for a while.
We've been going for a while.
So, yeah, crypto is about endurance.
That's the only thing that matters.
So, but yeah, so make sure to check out Zest Protocol.
I mean, you know, 3.8% APY on SBTC, paid out in BTC.
I mean, that's pretty great.
You know, not much to beat there.
And then we have USDH borrowable at close to 0% right now
because so much TVL just flowed in.
And USDCX at about 1%.
But both borrowable against all your favorite tokens on Stacks,
be it SBTC, be it SDX, be it Staked SDX,
be it Staked Stackstax PTC everything there
so yeah make sure to check that out
and then
yeah excited to get to
the second big launch of the ecosystem
tomorrow and
the days after
and yeah until then
I guess everyone hang tight
and then yeah we'll speak soon.
Great show, guys.
Bye-bye.
