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Stacks DeFi Show #69
Recorded: June 10, 2025 Duration: 0:58:48Space Recording
Short Summary
Stacks DeFi Show 69 highlighted significant growth and resilience in the Stacks ecosystem, with a total value locked of $75 million and innovative yield opportunities through Zest Protocol and SIP31. Despite recent challenges, the community's proactive response and focus on security measures position Stacks for continued success in the Bitcoin DeFi landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. All right, everyone.
Welcome, welcome to Stacks DeFi Show 69.
I'm just going to play some music until everyone is here.んんん
ん Thank you. Hello everyone. Oh it
it All right, looks like everyone is here.
I'm just going to put my headphones in and then we can get started as more people trip in as well.
All right.
Test, test. Let's see if this works.
Yes. A quick thumbs up would be great. Amazing.
Good. Well, we're here. 69 of Sta show very very excited to uh to to to be here i mean it's been a big week in in in stacks defa you know the good the good
the bad the ugly um i guess as they as they say it's not always uh you know a big a big party but
you know we come out we come out better, yeah, all good on that front.
But, yeah, I guess for those of you who are tuning into this
for the first time, this is the Stacks DeFi show
where we talk all things Stacks DeFi with all the, you know,
all the founders, the builders, other great people
who are working on this and on bringing bitcoin defy
you know closer so um i'm tycho founder of this protocol the largest defy protocol on
on stacks with about 75 million dollars of of tvl and it's also the lending protocol so on zest you
can uh earn yield on your assets and borrow against your assets on Stacks.
So very, very exciting stuff.
And yeah, I'm joined here by some great people.
You know, Jack, the advisor, Diego,
who's coming in soon from Bitflow
and probably others who will drop in.
But yeah, let's do a couple of quick intros.
Maybe the advisor advisor you want to
go you want to go first and then pass it on sure sure can you hear me yes loud and clear perfect
perfect so i'm the advisor for people that don't know me i'm a contributor for zest
and also for stacking dow so that's where, but StackingDAO is the leading
liquid staking protocol on stocks.
So you can deposit your STX
and mint an LST,
which then can be deployed in DeFi
to earn additional yield.
And the cool thing is that
you can earn both STX or SBTC rewards
based on your preference.
And with the LSTs,
you can unlock a ton of DeFi strategies on stocks.
And I also actively create educational content
about Bitcoin, especially focused on stocks.
That's right, that's right.
Jack, go for it.
Hey, GM, everybody.
Great to be here on this highly memeable episode of Stacks DeFi Show, episode 69.
And it's a great morning.
I'm here for Hermetica.
Hermetica is the first Bitcoin-backed stable coin.
It allows people like us to get out of the fiat system and stay exposed to Bitcoin and earn yield on our stable, which is really cool.
Yeah, happy to be here this morning and looking forward to another great episode.
Amazing. That sounds just right.
Let's try to get Diego up here.
Trying to get him on as well.
But yeah,
until we get here, I'm trying to
get all the
tweets up, I think, that
are relevant for
this week.
But yeah,
essentially,
we, there's a big elephant in the room
right that we should definitely you know cover and talk about is obviously the the alex hack or alex
security incident i would say definitely uh you know keep a close eye on the communications from
the alex side if you've been been affected right you can submit your claim or a signature
from your wallet essentially to get fully reimbursed so you know they're uh the alex team is
doing doing good job to uh to reimburse you know everyone who's been affected by the uh
by the incident but um but yeah broadly of course it's not uh it's not good for stacks defy when uh
when the main decks gets gets affected like that.
But, you know, we live and we learn.
We're here to continue.
It was a big test for Zest Protocol as well,
where Alex was collateral.
And of course, Alex started falling very quickly
after the exploit happened.
But, you know, it was possible to liquidate everything on time.
And Zest Protocol was actually used to stabilize markets The exploit happened, but it was possible to liquidate everything on time.
And Zest Protocol was actually used to stabilize markets on stacks during these turbulent times.
So people were borrowing a lot of SVTC.
They were swapping that for STX. There was a really big ARP opportunity as the hacker had been making some very big swaps.
So kind of proving that position
as a central node and stabilizer of markets.
But yeah, what did you sort of see
when that happened, Jack and the advisor?
And maybe also too, Jack.
I mean, I guess there's been a lot of spaces about this
that you've maybe been in yesterday and the days before.
And just curious what you're hearing and seeing in the community.
Yeah, you know, I think the first important thing to point out
is that, you know, what happened with Alex was happened at the Alex level,
you know, it was not anything to do with Stax, you know,
the actual protocol itself, the actual network.
That's just important to keep in mind because, unfortunately, when you're in this space,
this is a risk for every protocol.
It's the reason why security is so important.
Alex is the biggest dog in the yard, so to speak.
So it's going to have a target on its back.
And, you know, it just speaks to the necessity for, you know, a focus on security.
Because it does tend to hurt everyone when something like this happens, and it tends to hurt your individual holders and users.
But aside from that, you do then have the – crypto is a pretty dirty business, so you do have a lot of opportunists that use that to try to attack so forth.
And again, when you're talking about the biggest dog in the yard, Stacks is now, that's what we are.
You know, we're seen as a leading, you know, network when it comes to Bitcoin L2s because we do have the most Bitcoin out of any of them.
And it's just, it's important to remember,
look, this had nothing to do with stacks. And also, this is not a super uncommon thing that happens in this space, unfortunately. And the way that Alex is going about handling it
and making people whole is very commendable. Yeah, I look forward to a day where we see less and less of this.
But there's a lot of bad actors looking for easy money.
And I think that you live, you learn, and you go ahead and you become stronger as you go.
And so it was good to see, look, we made it. We're on the other side of it.
People are getting made whole. We move on and we just keep winning because that's really,
at the end of the day, what matters. Stacks has been live for six plus years at this point and has never had any kind of security failure.
So this is a secure chain.
We're secured by Bitcoin.
And this is a great place to build and a great place to be.
And it's only going to get better from here.
It's only going to get better from here.
Something I would just like to add is
I think that one really important thing is
how well Stacks protocols have reacted to it.
So for example, as Taiko mentioned,
Zest was unaffected by the hack, Baseflow 2.
So despite the fact that alex got hacked
i mean this has proved how resilient the rest of the the vehicle system is regardless of one
better accident and i know it's not easier especially when people get affected by by these
hacks it's it's never easy because you lose maybe money,
but I think Alex is doing the right thing in reimbursing the users.
So make sure to visit the app and file for that.
But at the end, it's all about the next step.
So what we can do now to go back to growth stocks as an ecosystem overall.
So obviously, it's been a bad accident, but there is some,
let's call them positives about how resilient stocks protocols, uh,
have been, and we're looking forward to keep improving, uh,
especially maybe keep doubling down on security too.
Yeah. Any, uh, any thoughts from you, Diego, as you just come in?
Good morning, everyone.
It's never a good thing when it happens.
It is a learning curve for everybody.
And I think as these things happen, we as a protocol, we get better.
We get stronger we as you said tyco or noam reacted we reacted very fast um and the things that we did was not only to protect
the the rest of the protocol but also to try to help alex and help recover these funds by
to try to help Alex and help recover these funds by, at least on our end, removing these routes from Alex,
making it a little bit harder for these hackers in the front end to try to swap and to try to, you know, move these funds across.
Ascigna Pontes Bridge did the same.
X-Link Protocol did the same, Xlink protocol did the same. And when we say we were pausing these routes,
everything's still active.
All we're doing is trying to limit the amount of funds
that are maybe leaving the ecosystem through a multi-hop
that then goes to USDC, then it goes to All Bridge,
or maybe it goes to PPTC, then it goes to the ponzi's
bridge um again it just reinforces the required budget that we all need uh that's in the sip 31
um i can easily say that after human after you know salaries and and payrolls i think uh security is our second most expense we're talking audits these are
tens and tens of thousands of dollars uh we're talking but bounty programs which the ones that
we have immunifying and if you have as well these are hundreds of thousands of dollars a year
and then we have other types of activities as well, but security is key.
And I think what we're doing as a protocol is trying to get better at it. Again, this does not affect Bitflow at all. was in order to minimize any sort of attempt to swap these tokens or to liquidate them
across the other protocols. But again, the backend and the contracts are fully active.
And this is just one small measure to help mitigate the risks. We hope that
all these routes are back very soon. There a lot of liquidity again our goal is to
make liquidity flow and make it easy to swap any of the other assets there are many of the many of
the meme tokens are still on Alex in terms of liquidity we did launch a Welsh pool a Leo pool
we have other requests for pools as well.
The idea is to have it as a beller head on Biflo so that more people have the option to continue trading them.
And I think we move forward with it.
And again, as Jack said, this does not affect the Stacks protocol at all. It just reinforces that as an ecosystem,
we need to work together and we need to move quickly
and we need to have a budget for security
that can help us mitigate these risks in the future.
We never know what's to come next.
We have been very lucky,
but I do think that we need to be prepared
and we need to be incentivizing white hackers as well to find vulnerabilities.
And I think part of the proposal that we talked was also joining forces to have, you know, instead of four or five, $100,000 bug bounty programs immunify, how about a million dollar bug bounty program when you mean if I we're going to get a lot of the top 30 top 20 top 10 white
hackers uh find even ability in helping us and helping the protocol um so you know we have to
look at this as well right like it was after the CETUS hack they sort of announced a uh
bug bounties for protocols over I think 10 or 20 million TVL um which from the ecosystem. So yeah, another great reason for SIP 31, right?
But keep going.
I also think it's important to mention, right,
that this kind of incident can't happen on Bitflow
in the current design.
I think also, you know, probably quite an important thing
for people to know.
Yeah, that is true.
All of our liquidity sits in isolated smart contracts. So if you deploy Welsh and Leo, that's going to sit on a Welsh and Leo smart contract dot com, right? There's no back doors or admin access to move the user funds. We only have access to the front end app. Use the user at all times. You're responsible for your funds.
It's a peer to peer trading.
Only you can remove it from staking contracts.
Only you can remove it from liquidity pools.
That's why when we launch a new pool,
like we did a few weeks ago with the Flex pool
for stacking down, we have to notify and educate,
we still do, and remind users that,
hey, you have liquidity in the old pool.
It's time to migrate.
We can't do it.
There's no backdoor.
There's no admin keys.
There's nothing that we can do.
We don't concentrate liquidity from all these pools into a secondary pool.
So it's a different design. It's something that we've taken, a measure that we've taken from the beginning, as well
a measure that we've taken from the beginning as well as multi-sig wallets.
as multi-sig wallets.
Even if, as a protocol, if we want to do a swap, we have to do three out of five
multi-sigs for a simple swap. So we have no access to your funds. Everything remains secure.
And as an aggregator, our job is to continue expanding and continue adding as many pools
as possible and options and helping users find the best rate,
low slippage, deep as liquidy as possible.
Yeah, makes sense.
Makes sense.
I think that's all very good points.
And yeah, moving on to maybe some of the other news items from the week.
yeah i mean moving on to maybe some of the other news items from from from the week but um i guess
state stacks btc has been on a bit of a a bit of a tear on the stacking now side right i've been the
i've been to tweet here uh here above maybe uh the advisor you want to share a few words on that and
what what what what we're seeing on stacking now is like state stacks of course which yields stx but also staked stacks btc which
uh is like the newer product yielding as btc sure sure so first of all let's say that we can notice
a positive trend on stacking down of the past regardless of the service let's say we provide
they're all been growing for the last few months so our native st staking, Stacks SDX, or Stacks SDX BTC,
all the free products have been growing in terms of deposit,
which I think reflects also the trust that people have
to stack in DAO and the simplicity of the UI, et cetera.
But what has been a real game changer
is in January, Stacks SD STX BTC. So basically the yield is in STX BTC
has been growing a lot in the last cycle.
I mean, this is current cycle.
We're already at 4.5 million STX deposited.
And I think this reflects the fact
that people want easy access to BTC yield while keeping their STX liquid.
So this wasn't possible before.
And also, before, you could maybe go for a native pool to receive BTC yield, but then your STX were locked.
And now they get the option to keep their STX liquid with STacks liquid with SD, SDX, BTC,
while earning SBTC yield.
And I think also Uteco can confirm that a lot of people are now using
SD, SDX, BTC on Zest as collateral.
And the SBTC that they earn, then they can deploy it on Zest
to earn additional yield or bid flow.
Yeah, that's right. That's right's right yeah great great composable thing yeah exactly i like i wanted to check more like
on chain data but i'm quite sure what is happening is uh because like we're stacking down lsts they
may now have way more flexibility to staking yield and doing more stuff on defy so item to
benefits all the different protocols from before zester metica and uh and this we're seeing uh
basically people want their sbtc yield who are being flexible of using d5
yeah very exciting have you guys used six Stacks BTC, Diego and Jack?
I have. Last week I personally deployed some Stacks BTC as well. My head was spinning with
how many compound opportunities and things that we could do in DeFi by consolidating these DeFi strategies.
I'm super excited to get that going as well. But yes, I think that also speaks volume to the dual
yield that we're looking for with the SIP31. Being able to stack stacks and get SBTC, I think it's a big deal on a bigger scale.
I think that gets us closer to the Bitcoin yield that we've all been searching for.
POX is already very unique.
I'm always surprised that people don't know the power of POX, and it's something that I don't think exists anywhere else.
It was definitely one of the reasons I came into stacks i was like oh this is pretty awesome not only am i securing the network
uh but i'm also earning some bitcoin yield and i think what stacking dal has done is to facilitate
make it easy for small wallets like myself to participate uh so i think it's a pretty dope
very pretty dope feature yeah no absolutely i
mean that's that's also like a very interesting thing that that can be possible with with zip 31
right just obviously the the big emission sip right basically you know create a new stacks
endowment with more stacks tokens to you know really get traction uh to a completely new level
on on the stacks chain but um but one very obvious very obvious thing is to post a lot of STX on,
say, on Zest protocol from the endowment.
And then people can come in with their staked stacks BTC,
borrow that STX at a low rate, let's say 3%, 4%, right?
And then stack it for, again, staked stacks BTC on stacking now.
So in that way, you could loop up
a yield on your STX with state Stacks BTC
and then borrow STX against it.
You could loop it up to 13%, maybe 15%.
So that could be like 30%, 15% on SDX in BTC.
And it's just like one of these very interesting things
of the Stacks chain, right?
Like if we really execute DeFi well on Stacks,
like we have BTC that yields BTC, right?
But SBTC, we have SDX that yields BTC.
I mean, I know there's a lot of talk of a dollar
that yields also BTC. I mean, I know there's a lot of talk of a dollar that yields also BTC.
Speak quite a bit about that with Jacob and others.
I think we'll probably have it soon.
But if you have like those three things, right?
You have a native token, you have a dollar,
you have a Bitcoin, that all yields BTC.
And then you create like a liquid ecosystem around that
with loops and ways to lever up or down
and essentially magnify that BTC yield.
You basically have a very, very interesting ecosystem, right?
Something unlike anything else out there.
So yeah, StakeStacks BTC, of course, is a very important piece of that puzzle.
Yeah, I think, you know, speaking to liquidity providers and funds,
especially last week or a couple weeks ago in Vegas,
we talked about, I think I was speaking to Kyle at ICP and um we were talking about consolidation of d5
which is you know we have aggregation where you know for example biflow does we aggregate pools
but the consolidation is where you combine a bunch of d5 strategies and you make it easy to deploy
and props to zest as well in the one click, one click deployment of yield strategies, which is pretty awesome.
But, you know, it's helping users by automating these strategies because it's all, again, it's all contract.
because it's all again it's all contract so you go in you get some stacks you mint some st stacks
you go to zest you you lend it out you get another token and you go to you know maybe you go to biflo
pool you lock it up and maybe use the l people for something else which is a way for us to stay
competitive because we do have a very healthy traditional market where 8 to 12%
APY is very common. So for large institutions in Wales to come in and say, okay, instead of 10%,
I'm going to put 25, 30, 40% into Bitcoin DeFi. We have to be around, I would say 15%, right? On the low end, but we've seen as high as 20.
But we have to beat SP500 for sure.
And I think that's going to come with compounding.
And I've known a lot of people that do it by Excel sheet.
I'm on seven or eight different protocols from Cake to Orca on Solana to,
you know, to all the stacks protocols and i have to
keep an excel sheet of everything that i'm moving how much i'm putting in um what do i do when i
get these rewards and i have to claim it uh which is also something that we're trying to automate
with biflo that's why we launched keepers that's why the flexible for example with stacking dial
is keeper ready we are launching flexible with with usdh hermedica.
So we're actually going to have a stable pool between the stake version of hermedica usdh, which is s usdh and usdh.
It's going to function exactly like the flexible and stacking down.
But now it means that you could be holding a yield bearing asset such as Hermetica USDH.
And you could use that towards other DeFi protocols, such as maybe your DCA into Bitcoin.
And then when Bitcoin hits, let's say all time high, you start DCA back into USDH.
So you're earning yield while you're buying Bitcoin.
And then you can do it the other way around.
So I think I missed a part of it.
So USDH, SUSDH pool on Bitflow.
Is that right?
Yes.
Okay.
That's news.
Yes.
That's news.
I hadn't heard of that one yet.
So basically today, if you stake USDH, right, with Hermetica, then you want to go back to
USDH and from SUSDH, you need to wait seven days, right?
So this would be like an instant swap, right?
Exactly, exactly.
So there's that feature as well that allows the user to instantly swap back to USDH.
Flexibility, again, the reason we call it a flex pool commercially,
which is the same function behind stacking down STS stacks.
You can swap back to stacks.
But now because you have SUSDH,
we can actually automate a bunch of other strategies.
So you get a USDH, you stake it, you get SUSDH.
Now you can bring SUSDH single sided liquidity or any amount added to the pool
and start earning yield on top of that right on top of hermetica or you can let's say use susdh to
dca into stacks or dca into sbtc so it becomes a very um attractive type of strategy and this is a very simple one where you're earning the usdh yield
while you're buying bitcoin and then maybe when bitcoin hits what we consider all-time high let's
say it happens this quarter this q4 or whatever it is you can start dc-ing it back to usdh so you
on the way in on the way out you're still earning uh you're still earning
uh usdh yield or maybe you're just you know adding liquidity to the pool and also earning whatever
that may be in organic yield based on trading fees yeah no very very cool i think this is the kind of
thing i mean i completely see it right maybe you know others who are listening in
might be like whoa this maybe goes a bit over my head but when you see it when it's live you'll get
it is all i can say but like yeah it just makes it so much more so much more liquid and so much more
you know usable to stake stake usdh which is i think what what we all want right so um that's like the the leading dollar on
uh on on stacks right so um no that's all that's all very and what's what's uh any idea on what
what the timeline for this is like you guys are close to launching this or where are we at we're
very close um this week uh i think yeah we're aiming um we heard it here first exactly i think we're having a
a special spaces tomorrow as well 3 p.m eastern building a bitcoin with hermetica and biflo
um hoping everything will be ready for tomorrow latest thursday so think of a smarter stable swap pool built for these yield bearing assets,
such as liquid staking token, such as Hermetica USDH. It uses the same variable midpoint mechanism
that we talked about. It adapts to the evolving value of this yield bearing token, but it also
gives you that opportunity to compound and consolidate API strategies on top.
And it gives the user that freedom to enter and exit their positions
without having to wait for whatever that cycle may be, seven days.
Yeah.
Exciting. Very exciting.
That's great.
I mean, this is also becoming a bit of a Diego and Zyko catch-up,
but no, it's very cool.
Very cool.
Like, I didn't know about this yet,
and I will definitely be using it, so that's great.
That's great.
Also, actually, one thing that you mentioned,
I just pinned it up here too,
is you were mentioning, like, you know,
at some point there's going to be a lot of,
well, there's already a lot of different yield strategies on stacks.
And sometimes situations change and it might be unclear what a good yield strategy is.
Friday was a very interesting day because that was, of course, a hack, which is the biggest shock to an ecosystem you can have.
But all of a sudden there were also pretty crazy arbitrage opportunities at some point right so there are
there are definitely addresses who managed to you know walk away with maybe 100k because they were
basically buying up um stx way below market price because sbpc was was priced so high right so
there were definitely some very big, big opportunities.
But the question is, like, how do you access them?
Because like, I didn't do those ARP strategies because, well, for one,
we were pretty busy shoring up all our own things and checking everything
and making sure everything was working right.
So I guess, obviously, usually the people who are talking on this
show will not be the ones who are taking advantage of the ARP strategies just because, you know, we're doing different things.
But I've been testing a little bit this, and it's not out yet.
But the team gave me some early access to this Satoshi AI terminal, right, from Satoshi AI, which is like the, I guess, leading AI token on
Stacks, trading on Valar.
And that's exactly kind of what this thing can do, right?
So the idea here is that, like, you know, you kind of plug in your wallet and you can
kind of, this has all not really been announced yet, I guess, you know, the team will come
out more with more details when it's ready.
But yeah, essentially, you can, you can use AI to find good strategies
and good yields and stuff like that,
which, yeah, just like a very neat thing, right?
So it's like, well, connect to wallet,
like what's good today?
And then you can just let AI do the work, right?
As probably most of us here do with ChildGPT as well these
days.
Yeah, it's a pretty exciting
thing. And also once all these strategies
become possible with CIP31, I think
we'll definitely see more of this.
You know, I think we get numb to it because
we're so inundated in it, but
there's just a tremendous amount of alpha
that's just been dropped in this call in the past 15 minutes.
We're sitting here talking about using AI
to make your DeFi plays as efficient as possible,
and then you're just talking about Stacks itself
and the way that it unlocks DeFi,
starting all the way down at the consensus mechanism, you know, it's wild. Like, we're
in the middle of this, so I think we're just numb to it to some degree. But this is insane,
you know, this is real DeFi. If you get away from the terminology that we just use in the space so frequently like DeFi and you just analyze it for what it is, it's a tool. It's a tool to grow your own wealth and your own portfolio.
options that are already available that people can use. And then, you know, getting back to
especially like when we're talking about how Zest is built and how Bitflow is built and so forth,
and you have protocols built with decentralization in mind. You know, that's so important because
that's really what makes Bitcoin valuable in the first place.
And so you're building true to these principles of decentralization,
which means that things like security are as high as they can be and as good as they can be.
And now you're like, okay, now I can take my liquid stacks and my liquid STX
and I can do just all of these different things with them to just grow
my portfolio in a decentralized manner. And this is what other L2s and so many other protocols are
trying to build to now, and it's already here. And then you also see it with, you know, people who are building Bitcoin-backed stables.
You know, none of them do it like Chrometica does it.
You know, you have a yield-bearing stable that gets the yield from the open market.
And it becomes this whole other flywheel that you can use in this ecosystem to, again, just use as a tool to grow your portfolio.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
I think sometimes it's just helpful to just step back and just pay attention to what's been said.
And being able to have this flex pool through Bitflow is going to be huge because one of the best plays you can do is borrowing USDH on Zest with your STSTX and getting yield then from Hermetica.
It's a massive play, and now you just have this whole new hermetica um it's a it's a massive play and now you just have
this whole new avenue of flexibility with it it's just mind-blowing guys like i think we just got
to stop and appreciate for a second where we're at yeah yeah the demand is here but go ahead the
advisor now i just wanted to show like for example i see mr mr cyborg here in the chat
and he did like a world post about the various d5 strategies on stacks uh which i think is worth a
shout out and just want to say like i feel like what the difference between last year and this
year is that last year the first i mean the stack's d5 pillars emerged so big flow hermetica
has stuck in doubt but now we're seeing composability and increasingly so so basically
with the flex pool accesses other stuff coming uh and all the new products that's like now launch
we're seeing like being integrated between each other which unlocks new device strategies and you work your earning on your PTC which I
think is the most exciting part for this year
yeah couldn't couldn't couldn't agree more very much so and and also like
there's been some new stuff announced on onIP 31. I believe there's been a few iterations on this, and it looks very close to going to a vote.
You are sort of the master of spaces.
You're everywhere.
What is your take on how the SIP has evolved
and how kind of the community reception is going?
Yeah, I think that the SIP is amazing.
I've liked it from the get-go,
and that's because I tend to look at things from a big picture.
And even in its first iteration, when you look at the SIP, you're like, okay, this is addressing concerns that the community has been raising for years now.
And I really liked that aspect of it.
And building upon that, as there's been more feedback given about the SIP, we've seen this current iteration of the SIP come about where the community has a lot of leverage going into this.
And that's important because community is part of the trifecta that every blockchain needs to have to be successful.
And, you know, so we're sitting here looking at a situation where, you know, we're going to have this endowment that's going to allow us to market more efficiently, going to allow us to build partnerships more easily, going to allow us to build more infrastructure that helps put Stacks on the map in a bigger way.
All of these things are working in a concert to make Stacks an even more known player in
the space.
And then at the end of it, you have the community here that's going to be sitting at the table in the form of a treasury committee that is making sure that this endowment is being used as good as possible to help grow this ecosystem and help make this ecosystem more resilient.
I don't know anywhere else that's taking this as seriously as Stacks is right now.
It's massive.
At the end of the day, when people talk about this concept of Web3,
I don't think that you're seeing anyone else really embrace this Web3 ethos
as well as Stacks is at this point in time.
So, you know, very excited to see, you know, all of this transpire the way it has.
Very excited to see, you know, the Stacks Foundation and Trust Machines, you know, so doing such a good job communicating and, you know, working in concert with just the everyday people who show up in here day in, day out, who really care about this network.
It's just been a beautiful thing.
So I'm very bullish on it.
I think that we're in a great spot.
And this has potential to completely
change the game. I think it's important that, again, getting back to being in the middle of
this, what does everybody who's been in crypto native for a while now, what do we always talk
about? We always talk about when's retail coming in, new retail,
when's mass adoption happening, and all of these kinds of things. And so, yes, Stacks has been
around, again, for over six years. And we've been building DeFi on Bitcoin, so to speak,
or just in another way, trying to make Bitcoin more scalable
way before it was a fashionable idea, way before ordinals came about and showed people,
hey, maybe we really need these Bitcoin layer things. This isn't the best way to do things.
things. And as new retail comes in and mass adoption happens, guess what? Stacks is all new
to them. People come in and this is all new. Except when people look at Stacks,
they're going to see, oh, wow, this is a network with a history. This is a network that happens to have a good
entry. And look at this whole suite of products when they're looking at things like stacking
DAO and Zest and Bitflow and Velar and Granite. And you can just go down a list of all of the infrastructure and use case that's already been built out.
And it suits everybody's individual risk tolerance.
You can secure the network, earn yield, or you can take advantage of these different DeFi loops,
all based on where you're at and what you want to do.
And when you combine this with more
visibility for Stacks, when you combine this with more infrastructure, and you combine this with a
strong marketing presence, I think that we're going to look back at this moment in time right now
moment in time right now and very shortly and be like wow i wish i had more money back when stacks
was was stx was trading for you know 69 70 cents what have you because um that was a damn good
entry and that's really the the reality of it uh this is a massively bullish.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see.
I see.
We have a bit more time.
We can maybe invite a couple people up.
Maybe, yeah.
Let's have Martin and Blockface come up with any questions.
Feel free to unmute yourself and jump in.
Whoever wants to go first.
Hi, guys.
My name is Martin Taylor.
I'm the founder of Not A Strategy, a.k.a. Nasty.
We're a meme coin on Stacks.
mean coin on stacks we're a parody of strategy and we most people don't know that we've actually
We're a parody of Strategy.
set up our own bitcoin treasury on stacks and the majority of the funds are on cest
and we've built up quite a we we've mimicked what sailor has done and we've sold tokens at the market, both in Stax and on Solana.
We're listed there as well.
We've raised funds and as SBTC evolved, we've been steadily buying it and putting it to work as collateral on Zest and then borrowing against it and doing the loop.
collateral on Zest and then borrowing against it and doing the loop.
And just going forward, we see our role within Stax as promoting DeFi by leading by example
by what we're doing with our Bitcoin treasury.
And just wanted to make the announcement that we've actually broken into the top 100
accounts on zest in on the points table i think we're 95 with a bullet so we're slowly building
i think we've got we've got now one and a half bitcoin uh in our treasury amazing
yeah we're working it as hard as possible to uh to get squeezed as much zest out of it, so to speak.
And, you know, doing the loops and borrowing USDH.
And it's great to be using DeFi and not have any fiat involved at all, you know, not even in the stable.
So I think DeFi, Bitcoin DeFi is a very strong narrative.
I think Bitcoin treasury companies are a very strong narrative.
So Nasty's kind of at the apex there, at the intersection,
and we'll be doing our best to spread the word that you don't have enough Bitcoin
and that Stax is the best place to put your Bitcoin to work.
So keep an eye out for Nasty.
Thanks, guys.
Yeah, and what's new on the strategy?
You're kind of like just setting the token
to acquire more Bitcoin.
Is that sort of roughly what the strategy is?
That's right.
I mean, we just mimic...
I mean, it's getting more and more difficult to
mimic Sailor with all these hybrids he's putting out and whatnot. But we did convertible notes to
start off with. We call them nasty CNTSs. We just sold, we launched maybe six months ago and we're in a position to be able to sell some of it.
We distributed some of the tokens to nothing token holders.
I came out of the nothing community and the nasty idea was kind of born out of that.
But we had enough tokens to sell into the market and build up enough capital to buy the SBTC.
But we're coming towards the end of just how much we can raise.
So now it's really important to be able to put that capital to work.
And maybe that's something that it's not so much how much Bitcoin you have but how hard you put it to work
and generate a Bitcoin yield for your token holders.
So that's something, a message we're going to try and get across.
And one of the strategies I like doing at the moment,
especially with the volatility we've seen in STX,
it's definitely, I think, you know,
Bitcoin is such a pristine
collateral that it really should form the basis of your DeFi. And, you know, it's a great
asset to lend against. So I prefer to borrow, and I did this yesterday, I bought some SBTC
in my personal Zest account, then borrowed some USDH against it, bought some STX with that, minted some
STX BTC.
So now I've got this nice kind of, I've got exposure to Bitcoin.
I've got some upside to a layer two to Stacks.
And the Stacks is producing Bitcoin yield for me,
which, you know, increases my Bitcoin.
It flows back into my Bitcoin bag.
And it's got a positive carry with the USDH still below 5% for the debt.
So that's sort of, and, you know,
you don't have to put too much leverage into that.
And it just takes away. Is that your favorite strategy right now what's your your favorite defy strategy
at the moment is it the usdh that's it i think yeah look i think i think um i mean
at the moment and and we'll see how long it lasts but usdh is obviously um
probably the most stable um, stable, stable to borrow
in, you know what I mean? I mean, the AEUSDC jumps around a lot. One minute you borrow
and it's 5%, next minute it's 15%, 20%. The USDH, I guess it's been a lot more stable
and that's something, if you're putting a strategy in for the longer term, you want to see and to rely on.
But just with the volatility we've had with Stacks, and I guess with the dilution we'll see going forward in the next few years with the 7%. Two comments to make.
One, probably I'd prefer to have SPTC as collateral for loans
rather than STX or one of the STX versions.
And secondly, I think if you're holding STX,
which I believe you should, and I think it's a good buy down here,
I think you really need to put it to work
just to offset that dilution that you're going to face going forward.
So, again, there's so many opportunities in DeFi,
in StaxDeFi, to make your bags really, really work for you.
And, yeah, I think, you I think lazy money is lost money.
So we'll be out there trying to get the message across
to put your bags to work as best you can.
And there's so many strategies there.
And I've heard a few tonight that I wasn't aware of.
So it's great to listen into these spaces and discuss all the various strategies
and really to be kept up to date.
One of the things I didn't like about USDH is the seven-day wait.
You know, some drama happens like we had last week.
You know, you really sometimes want your stables straight away.
So the pool that Diego's talking about is fantastic to hear.
Great news, guys.
Yeah, yeah.
This is also where I come to learn about StagxDefi.
It's like the nice times always catch up with everyone.
So when we're just here on the call together,
then we can just share the news.
So no, great.
Let me be real quick.
I mean, we're kind of coming up on time.
Blockface, you want to jump in?
You're muted in case you're talking.
Mic check, one, two, one, two.
Yes, this works.
All right.
So this, my question comes out of a conversation online,
seeing Benaiah's work and with Jack and Peace at Bitcoin Vegas.
I know we're talking about DeFi and stable coins, but in my world where we're looking at commercial real estate,
have you guys worked on any projects or seen any projects within Stax that combines the use of stable coins with commercial real estate
transactions for creative finance in that realm because that's the current ask our clients have
of us today yeah maybe to briefly answer to that like i um i haven't really seen anything like this
i think if there would be anything it it would probably be on Solana or Ethereum
or in like an ecosystem that's a bit more liquid.
Just because like the baseline liquidity on stacks
is not quite there yet
to do these kind of more advanced use cases.
So, but yeah, that could change later this year, right?
But I think, yeah,
today it would be difficult to do something like this.
Yeah, because right now we're talking about defy i'm looking towards uh i'm looking at clients who want to create d reits r-e-i-t right that's tokenized essentially you understand where this
is going yep i mean grant cardone is already doing it with including bitcoin in his real
estate transactions he's posting about that publicly.
And so we have a lot of the people on the commercial real estate side,
which had their conference two months ago in Vegas.
And there's a lot of curiosity about including stable coins and Bitcoin
and synthetic Bitcoin as collateral in these creative financed transactions.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
That makes sense. that makes sense that makes sense that makes sense yeah more more exciting things to yeah more exciting things i think on that on that front to uh
to come or to become possible you know soon i guess first you know zip 31 and then uh after that
we can uh bring up the defa ecosystem and then uh get ready for all of this all this stuff but um yeah maybe we
should do some quick quick outros maybe um you know jack the advisor diego what should people
do what do you want uh you know people to walk away and walk away with from uh from this chat
yeah everybody's building towards this narrative right now this defy on bitcoin narrative
um we already have it just remember that there's a reason why you're here and um you know we we have
the leading asset when it comes to bitcoin l2s and um just again like we're sitting here talking
about defy and then Blockface comes up
and he's like, hey guys, look, commercial real estate's an opportunity. Like we're at the
beginning. So I believe SIP31 is going to pass. And I believe that it's going to turbocharge this
ecosystem in ways that we've always wanted, but didn't quite know
how we were going to get there.
And, um, I think that, you know, the sky's the limit.
So, you know, get bullish and we just keep doing what we're doing.
Yeah, I agree with Jack.
And I know sometimes the fucking baby is scary but at the end it just sticks
a few attempts to understand
how it works so like if you have
if you're on some SDX and want to earn
up to 10% yield
on it in SPT or SDX
make sure to check stacking down
and for something
slightly more advanced if you want to
land your
stacks token or like even borrow against them,
make sure to check Zest for that.
Yep, I want to thank you everyone for the space.
Definitely participate in the CIP 31.
I think we're about to open voting if I'm not mistaken.
If you haven't, follow Biflo Finance on Twitter, make sure you also follow us on Discord.
We actually published yesterday a, let's call it semester update, roadmap, how we're building a foundation, what's next, what's coming, what products are we launching, including the USDH, SUS SUSTH FlexPool that's coming this week.
So make sure you guys follow, join the conversations,
and explore roadmaps, and let's build the future
of Bitcoin DeFi together on Stacks.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
No, that's right.
That's right.
I guess final words, and I'm trying to fry an egg really quickly,
is make sure to follow Zest protocol, make sure to
earn some yield on your BTC
and then make sure to
tune in next week at 10am
Eastern Time, Tuesday
the next VFAR show
with more exciting stuff.
Great that you were all here.
I see some great people in the audience
like Algorithm, Vika,
Hodel,
iRoller, and
many others.
Thank you very much for tuning in
and the questions.
See you guys next week.
Bye.
