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Stacks DeFi Show #77
Recorded: Aug. 5, 2025 Duration: 1:01:00Space Recording
Short Summary
The Stacks DeFi show has reached new heights with over 100 listeners, showcasing the growing interest in decentralized finance on Bitcoin. Key innovations like the HODL MM and Zest Protocol's record TVL highlight the ecosystem's rapid growth and the increasing yield opportunities available to users.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
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you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you
you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Hello, everybody. Quick check if my audio is working.
Thumbs up.
Okay, awesome.
Let's see if it's still working, because sometimes when I make co-host, it drops.
So maybe if we can do one thumbs up, if people can hear me.
There is a thumbs up.
Fantastic.
Let's play some music, and then we'll get the show on the road.ん
I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the room.
I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the room.
I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the room.
I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the room. I I
ん All right.
All right. All right.
I know the music is great, but we're here to talk Stacks DeFi
and not listen to all this great stuff.
So let's get this thing on the road.
Let me just put in my headphones, and then we can get started.
I hope it will still keep me here.
All right.
Quick check if you can hear me quick thumbs up would be appreciated amazing amazing amazing amazing well welcome everyone 77 uh of the stacks defi show and then we've been
going at this for um for a little while you know this is the place where we talk all things Stacks DeFi, all the latest updates
from your favorite protocols
on the leading Bitcoin L2.
And yeah, this is kind of the call
where, you know, all the builders,
we kind of come together on,
you know, a very fluid, voluntary basis
to, yeah, to sync and to learn
what we've been working on
for the past weeks and
what's ahead and to exchange perspectives. Rather than doing a group call, let's just do it out in
the open so that everyone can get the latest updates on what's going on in the ecosystem.
So yeah, without further ado, maybe one quick thing. Our friends at Stacks always ask us to quickly mention that, of course, everything that we
share or talk about is for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial
advice.
But yeah, let's do a couple of quick intros for the new listeners.
I mean, the spaces have been popping lately.
I think over 100 listeners quite regularly, which is great to see.
So yeah, but let's do a couple of quick intros.
Happy to get started.
My name is Tycho, co-founder of Zest Protocol, the leading DeFi protocol on Stacks in terms of TVL, and the place where you can
borrow against all your Stacks assets and against your SBTC and earn yield on your BTC
and earn yield on all your Stacks assets.
So, you know, the great hub for Stacks DeFi.
I'm also contributing to StackingDAO, another amazing hub of Stacks DeFi. I'm also contributing to Stacking Now, another amazing hub of Stacks DeFi
and help out a lot on Stacks core work as well.
But yeah, I would love to pass it over
to the advisor for an intro
and then you can pass it on to the next person
until we've had everyone.
Sure. Can you all hear me yes sir
perfect so good morning to everyone or good afternoon depends where you are but
i'm the advisor i handle as a marketing operation for stacking dow and zest protocol and I also actively create stocks and beacon content on my account.
So, yeah, I will keep it short as usual and we'll let Diego or Jack go next.
Thanks. Good morning, everyone. I'm a co-founder of Biflo Finance.
We are a decentralized exchange where you can trade, earn and stack more BTC on stacks.
So we make it easy for Bitcoin liquidity to flow.
We have a DEX, DEX aggregator and a bunch of cool tools that help the ecosystem and help liquidity flow.
And I'm happy to be here lots lots for us to cover today
i'm excited hey gm everybody um i'm jack i'm here on behalf of hermetica um usdh is the bitcoin
backed yield bearing stable native to the l one biggest stable here on stacks.
And, you know, I've been around stacks a little while co-founder of the, uh, the, the root
coin that you see so much of on the TL and yeah, just, just happy to be here with you.
Chad's talking about stacks defy, probably my favorite subject these days.
favorite subject these days.
Fantastic. I think when we get
some more people
dripping in,
maybe there's someone who I can't see as
speaker, in which case
give me a shout.
It sometimes happens.
But yeah, very
exciting stuff.
Once again, it's been a very, very exciting week,
I guess, you know, an exciting week in markets, you know,
with a bit of a, you know, a bit of a hiccup in the U.S. markets, right,
with Trump firing the head of statistics and stuff like that.
So that, of course, has an impact,
but I think the long-term setup seems to be very bullish.
So yeah, and then a lot of updates from across the ecosystem.
from across the across the ecosystem um so maybe we should should get started with uh
with some some stacking now updates i'm sure if you wanna you know kick things off
the advisor um i mean it's uh the the tvl is of course you know up only all-time high after all-time high in STX terms.
But yeah, maybe you can share anything additional on that.
Sure.
So as you mentioned, first of all, TVL is an all-time high.
I think we're closing almost at 87 million STX, so we're closing to the 100 million
milestone. But something maybe not related to the TVL, which has been growing steadily over the last
seven, eight months, is that stuck in our LSTs, so if you take STSTX and STSTX-BTC,
are increasingly being used as collateral on ZEST.
So in recent weeks, let's say,
there's been an increase of 20% of that
or borrowing activity taken against the LSTs,
which I think is super cool because it means that more
and more people are seeing STX via the LSTs
as a good collateral to be used.
And also, I mean, it's like an hour list,
a new cool feature,
where basically you can track the STX value accrual over time,
like on a daily basis.
So if you go on the analytics section of the website, you can basically check every day
how much your STX are increasing in value,
thanks to the auto compounding of STX rewards.
Yeah, and also a new feature launch, right?
Which is like the thing here I pinned on the left.
It's on the analytics page.
A lot of people have been asking for that, right?
To be able to track the value accrual of staked STX.
Indeed, indeed.
And again, it's like, while for STX, BTC, it's a bit simple.
Now you can just claim your SPTC rewards on a daily
basis maybe this is
a bit more
let's call it eaten
from a visible point of view but this makes it
super clear now how much
the STSX are accruing
in value every day
yeah that's always
one thing to look out for right of course if you stake
um stx natively right you just get the btc in your wallet if you use state stacks btc that's
always worth one stx because you know you just get the sbtc to claim from the from the stacking
now interface but with state stacks it has this unique property where it auto compounds, right?
So your yield just grows over time and the value of the asset grows over time.
So you min staked stacks and then staked stacks is worth more than one SDX, right?
Because it basically has all the yield accrued in the token. So every, every day or every couple of hours, the STX yield from proof of transfer gets
added to the backing of the token and it just increases in, in value all the time, which
makes it that also that great collateral, right?
So stakes tax is used much more in, in DeFi than stakes tax BTC.
Um, I think it's, uh, you know, about $3 million is borrowed against it,
whereas against state stacks BTC still only like, uh, uh, 300 K or something.
So it's definitely like 10 X, um, 10 X used, which, you know, is probably a result of the fact that,
you know, the, the yield is, uh, compounding inside the token, right? So the collateral value
just like keeps going up automatically,
which is a pretty neat trade.
So yeah, but now you can check that out,
how fast that compounding goes in the analytics page
with this new graph.
So yeah, amazing stuff.
Maybe just a quick rundown as well
of the weekly recap on the Zest side,
because a lot of things have been happening here too.
So TVL has hit a new all-time high, above $80 million for the first time, 82.
So that's really big news.
Really big news.
So our next target is $100 million in TVL.
So our next target is 100 million in TVL.
And then also the amount of stable...
That boost in TVL mainly came from new stablecoins flowing in, right?
So I think stablecoins on Zest were around 5 million last week.
And it's bumped up big time to 10.
So that's a big one.
My phone just went to sleep.
I don't know why that happened.
But yeah, so that's really big news.
So almost $10 million in borrows on Zest Protocol.
Over $10 million in stablecoins today.
So really big upswing there. And there and also yeah a lot more borrowing
right so before there was around 1.2 million of usdc borrowed and that's gone up to 5.1 so very
very um very exciting stuff you know that's really the the ecosystem coming to life
and we also saw a lot of stx inflows. So actually a million STX came onto Zest.
And that's also led to a surge in STX borrowing because, you know, to borrow stacks today is
around 5.7%, so a bit less than 6%. But if you borrow that stacks and you stake it, you get nine,
right? So you basically get a 3% extra there. So what we see a lot of users doing is taking their stacks,
they minstaked stacks or staked stacks VTC,
and then they borrow a little bit of STX against that
to basically boost up their, and stack that again, right?
And then they boost up their stacking yield
from the 9% you would otherwise get to 11%, 12%,
which is a really nice thing, right?
A way to basically get your stacking anyway,
you might as well boost up the yield.
And yeah, the SPTC has also been up by 10%.
Most likely that's new collateral coming in
to borrow stablecoins.
So yeah, really big week on um on zest and i think um you know
the start of a of a run towards um towards much more tvl so um yeah that's some really uh
some really really exciting stuff and um yeah we'd love to hear from you, Jack and Diego.
I mean, Diego, we have a lot to talk about on the HODL AMM.
I think a lot of people are very curious about the announcement and to talk more about how this will revolutionize swaps on stacks.
But maybe as a little cliffhanger before we get there.
before we get there um zach any uh any news from hermetica land yeah um you know last month um the
Zach, any news from Hermetica land?
average apy for usdh wound up being about 15.3 percent and keep in mind that this this yield
comes from the open market this is real organic yield. Very cool to see.
Also, another thing, and I believe this has a lot to do with not just Hermetica making it easy to get USDC and USDT from Ethereum over onto the Hermetica protocol and over here into Stax and Bitcoin, but also has a lot to do with Zest.
into stacks and Bitcoin, but also has a lot to do with Zest. The total amount of USDH has crept up
over 6 million. And, you know, that's because a USDH is made every time Bitcoin is transferred
to make it, right? So more growth on the Hermetica Inn. We have Hermetica powering liquidations for both zest and granite.
Acting is a way for these protocols to be able to access very deep centralized exchange liquidity to lower slippage and make these protocols run more efficiently.
Huge, huge just being a key piece of infrastructure for DeFi here on Stacks.
And, you know, those of you who know me know how much I love Alpha and how much I love
teasing and everything.
But, you know, Hermetica, well, they just cook and they just deliver.
So all I can say is just pay attention because the cook is strong right now
no amazing stuff i mean i guess funding rates are taking a little bit of a of a hit this week
right so yield on usdh is probably going to be slightly lower than how
crazy it was the weeks before non-percent today yeah non-percent today but i mean it's very good
yeah i mean when you look at what you're going to get for a fiat dollar um you know yeah that's
that i mean it's it's night and, right? Like this is paradigm changing stuff.
I mean, when we talk about, you know, things like DeFi on Bitcoin, what we're really talking
about is transitioning to a Bitcoin-based economy, a decentralized Bitcoin-based economy.
And when you can look at, you know, being able to save, to stay liquid in U.S. dollars,
basically, that are backed by Bitcoin, and you can still, on a
slow week, still have 9% APY, it completely changes the game. I mean, people in the United
States, if you were just saving your money in the bank, it was interesting, actually. I was
orange-pilling someone the other other day and they had started their professional
career in 1996.
And, um, they, they like started out making 20 bucks an hour.
And I was like, yeah, you know, if you took all that money you saved that you made that
year and you, you still have it to this day, you've lost 51% of its purchasing power.
That's the problem with fiat. That's the problem with fiat back stables ultimately.
And we can sit here today and talk about getting 9% on USDH because it's backed by Bitcoin.
This completely changes the game and that's why everyone's up here on this stage. I mean, this is how you create actual wealth and actual resources
and actually position you and your family better in life.
This is because we're not operating from a debt-based system.
We're operating from a value creation point of view.
So yeah, gigaullish on that.
9%, I'll take that all day long.
Yeah, same here.
That means that the yield trade on Zest is also very much alive and kicking, right?
Because you can borrow a USDC today for 3% and you can swap it to it you can swap it to usdh right and stake it for uh
for nine so that means that there's still like a you know six percent gap to uh to capture there so
that's um yeah that's that's some exciting uh some exciting stuff and uh yeah i just bought
a little bit more more stx today as well so i think i uh i might move that uh move that in to borrow some uh some ausdc against my
staked stacks um and then and then and then swap it into into usdh so you know very very very
exciting stuff right i mean that's like the real the real benefit or the real interesting thing
about the stacks ecosystem right you can uh you can get btc you You can get BTC yield on your SDX.
You can get some very solid BTC yield on your SVTC.
And then you can borrow against those yielding assets, right?
To get into a BTC yielding trade on the dollar.
Of course, there you have to swap the USDH
that you get in yield then into SVTC.
But maybe someday we get the yield from USDH just in SVTC.
That would be pretty sick.
But yeah, drum roll, drum roll, drum roll.
Maybe that will come.
But no, very, very exciting.
And probably even more exciting, or speaking of very exciting things.
Yeah, Diego, the HODL AMM, I mean, or speaking of very exciting things. Yeah, Diego,
the HODL AMM, I mean,
or the HODL MM,
so to say.
Dylan came in
right at the
end of last DeFi show last week
to, you know, to sort of
lift the tip of the veil of an announcement that
was going to come in a few hours.
And yeah, here we are.
It's been out there for a week.
People on Stacks and Bitcoin layers are learning about concentrated liquidity for the first
time.
So yeah, take us through it.
What is the HODL MM?
How is it completely different from everything that that that bitflow has today
and uh and how is everyone here going to benefit from it yeah now it's um it's it's it's pretty
exciting it definitely gave us another boost um it's always good to have you know that product
on the horizon and uh just connecting to what jack was saying, we are moving to a Bitcoin denominated economy.
Stablecoins will dominate payments for the next decade.
And this past Saturday, it was just Dog Summit, which was a Bitcoin summit organized by the dog community in Sao Paulo, Brazil.
I had the pleasure of doing a keynote on scaling Bitcoin DeFi and the future of Bitcoin capital markets.
Adam from the foundation was also there on a keynote about SBTC.
They have multiple panels on Bitcoin, Bitcoin utility, et cetera.
And I actually started my keynote with a statement saying Bitcoin does not need Wall Street.
It's Wall Street that needs Bitcoin.
And you can replace Wall Street with anything.
Institutions, government agencies, banks, Bitcoin does not need them.
They need Bitcoin.
And that is very clear.
As we move into a Bitcoin-denominated market, as holding bitcoin becomes the norm um we are on this
mission to build you know the most widely adopted engine for bitcoin liquidity and uh as the core
infrastructure for bitcoin defy um evolving you know from an amm to this concentrated liquidity
engine is key um i think it's good for market makers, it's good for traders.
And what's basically a HODL MM
is a concentrated liquidity engine.
The HODL MM stands for High Throughput Orderbook Style
Decentralized Liquidity Market Maker.
I know it's a long name, that's why we got the HODL in there.
It's very easy to view,
but basically a concentrated liquidity unlike traditional AMMs that spread liquidity across all price ranges,
HODL-MM lets liquidity providers allocate capital to a specific price bin where trades are most likely to occur.
So think of micro pools, right?
And within those bins where you set the price uh you basically have zero slippage
trades so that's also a benefit for traders so think of you know you define the price of how
much you're willing to sell your bitcoin for and how many you know usdc or usdh and within that bin
there is no slippage uh so it works like order book style but then you have multiple bins
uh that allows you know for better price discovery um and you know we're we're now in you know maybe
to quickly understand this idea of bins right because it's quite a quite a complex complex
thing right so i guess if we think about it today right if you if you take like a pool on
bitflow right like uh let's say stx a usdc so you should kind of see that as like you know
one big bin or like a lot like let's say like a lot of the liquidity that's in that right there's
5 million there that can be traded but a lot of it is never used. Right. That's and the whole item is going to change that.
That's correct.
So right now we have all this millions of dollars, um, basically being held in
one bin with, um, the concentrated liquidity.
A bin is simply a container, which is fragmented, you know, in a way that it's holding the assets at a fixed price.
So it can contain one or more tokens and the swaps will go through those bins.
So once those bins are empty or completely swapped for the other side, it will go over to the next bin.
next bin right so that's how price discovery usually happens as well and also as long as
Right. So that's how price discovery usually happens.
the swaps are happening within that same bin uh there's zero slippage for the swap which makes it
more attractive for uh the trader as well so as an lp you can define specific strategies
um and really shape how you distribute your liquidity across the pools. So you can do
bid and ask, you can do spot which is flat or round, or you can do bell shape.
And basically you're adapting to the demands of the market and to what the price is, you know, how the price is being discovered
and how the price is being found. So it gives, you know, I think everyone more benefits. It allows,
for a better price discovery, but also it allows for liquidity providers to,
by concentrating liquidity on specific bins,
they don't have to deploy as much capital.
We've seen studies from other chains
that goes from 20X to 2000X improvement
in terms of liquidity provision.
Yeah, because right now, like right for SDX, USCC,
so there's 5 million of liquidity,
but it's basically spread out in one block, which means that if I trade 50,000, I move the price 1%, right?
And if I trade 500,000, I move the price 10%.
So that's quite a lot, right?
Correct.
Yeah, correct.
So within the same, let's say, you know, instead of deploying 5 million, you could reach the same yield or same return for your capital as 50K if you are within those ranges.
And it also allows you to, it does require maintenance, but it allows you to maintain and move your positions so that you're always within the active trading position.
And this gives that precision that institutions are used to
and market makers are used to, right?
Because then you're focusing your capital on specific price range,
and now you have the other millions that you can deploy on other pools
on other pools or other price pins
or other price bins or other type of strategies as well.
or other type of strategies as well.
Yeah, so that's, yeah.
In DeFi, we know this is like, you know,
Uniswap V2 going to Uniswap V3, right?
With that really added depth.
But yeah, I think just one way to think about it
is that the yields will be a lot higher, right, for LPing on Bitflow, because basically a lot more trading can happen for the same amount of capital.
And you can swap much more, you know, basically having a more reliable price, right?
Because if I go in today and I, let's say I swap half a million USDC stacks,
then I'm going to take a 10% hit.
So I'm going to get 10% less stacks than I should have.
Which, yeah, that's of course not ideal,
especially as we want the institutions to come and stuff like that.
So yeah, so it's really, really beautiful stuff.
And when do you think this can be out in the open on mainnet?
Not to make any promises, you know, how engineers are.
Dylan may jump in here.
Oh, he's here already.
He can talk more about the timeline.
But we are looking in the next quarter.
And there's a lot of work behind the scenes, not only in terms of security, but also in scalability.
Having this ready for APIs, having this integrated with our SDK, with Aggregator, and, you know, building the foundations for institutional grade tooling, it's key.
So there's definitely a lot of work ahead of us.
Yeah, good morning.
Hey, everybody.
First question is when.
I love it.
We talked a lot about it before you came to it.
Just to save my reputation here, that was not the first thing that I asked, Jacob.
All good, all good, all good.
But yeah, we are doing some end-to-end testing right now.
It's deployed on mainnet with some dummy tokens.
But if you're hypervigilant to the on-chain activity,
maybe you'll be able to find it out there somewhere in the wild.
But yeah, we're going to hand this over to the auditors soon
and probably get this run through two different auditors as well.
I think it's just something that's super, super important for the ecosystem and probably get this run through two different auditors as well.
I think it's just something that's super, super important for the ecosystem and to make sure we treat it with the highest priority there on the security side.
And yeah, as soon as the audits are complete, then it's like, all right, let's go.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
All for that, security should be number one.
I think we know all too well in the Stacks ecosystem and there.
But okay.
And just maybe now that you're here, so there is smart contracts that you guys are working on.
That's obviously a very big piece of this and the different bin management.
But then there is probably a lot more, right?
You mentioned like, you know, SDK, APIs,
like what all goes into building this kind of thing?
Yeah, yeah.
We're getting actually two portions of it audited.
We'll be getting not only the smart contracts,
which we always get audited,
but also the backend code. We will be having auditing teams come in and review these as well.
And what does the back-end code do?
What does it do compared to the smart contracts?
Well, currently, right now, if you want to get a quote,
we use read-only calls.
So it's just one of the functions that's available in the smart contract, right?
So we would hit the blockchains to make it clear.
Yeah, and we would say, like, all right, you know, I want to trade this token for this token, right?
We've figured out all the routes, and then we would go on-chain to ask, like, all right, what's the quote for all these routes?
That's actually really really slow yeah so yeah um and even with stable swaps i think the load time you know can be somewhere right now i mean just something pretty terrible
like three to five seconds you know but we're going to be able to get this down to like on
the order of milliseconds so um but like basically replicating
the on-chain state uh off-chain um and having this uh updated you know basically it like the
like within the limits of physics you know so like every time there's a new block right like just
having that push directly to like a redis cache and um and so
that this on chain state is always replicated off chain um for determining quotes now every
for transacting everything still runs on chain right um and you still have all the same protections
and post conditions and all the good stuff that we love about stacks. But yeah, the quote engine will actually be like probably 10 to 100x faster as well.
Okay, interesting.
Interesting, interesting.
That's very, I mean, the read-only calls, that reminds me,
when we launched the very first version of Zest protocol,
we were also loading the website with read-only calls,
which meant that people had to wait like 10 seconds before they could see the site.
So yeah, but if you want to do swaps, you don't want to wait 10 seconds because maybe
the price has already moved before you could put in the right amount in the UI, right?
So that's an important way to think about it.
And the other thing is if you're
thinking about you know where to add liquidity right the price can be uh i mean can and will
be moving you know with every stacks block um and it i'm not sure how many of you have played with
meteora but it's kind of fun to just watch the the active bin change left and right and like the
volatility um and that's one of the key components when you're trying to figure out you know hey where watch the active bin change left and right and like the volatility.
And that's one of the key components when you're trying to figure out,
you know,
Hey,
where am I going to put my money?
You know,
like what,
like,
okay,
I get it.
Concentrated liquidity is good.
I can earn more yields with less capital, but where,
where should I,
what's the range that I should actually provide this,
you know,
like my,
my funds over.
Right. And I think one of this, you know, like my, my funds, uh, over.
Right.
And I think one of the core components there that, uh, like the backend helps make it very
easy to load and to visualize is, um, the price chart over time, you know, for this
pair, um, you know, maybe like over a day or seven days, 30 days, right.
is 30 days, right?
Like the normal views that traders are used to.
Like the normal views that traders are used to.
And then right beside that,
you'll see like the depth of the liquidity for the pool.
You can think about like a histogram chart,
but kind of turn it on its side.
So it's vertical.
So you have the price chart on the left,
and you have this vertical histogram that shows you like the social proof. So you've got the price chart on the left, and you have this vertical histogram that shows you the social proof.
So you've got the price history so you can see the volatility,
the highs and the lows,
and that sort of helps you create a boundary,
a lower and an upper bound for where it makes sense to provide liquidity.
You can see the market price,
and you can see where other people are
adding liquidity to so um yeah i think that uh and just watching that in real time like uh you know
change as people are trading so you can see this little line moving up and down i think um i mean
this is like the most uh i think this is like the most advanced trading engine that's ever been built on Stacks for sure.
But I think people are really going to like how components of the app feel very real time.
Yeah.
No, that's very, very, very, very exciting.
And yeah, so you're very heads down right now with all this contract work, back-end work, so on and so forth.
And is this then going to replace the existing Bitflow pools?
Or will they exist alongside each other or integrate with each other even?
Or how is that all going to work?
Hopefully, it won't be very
noticeable except for all the new features.
Right. I see.
Yeah, the job for the engineers
is to make it seamless so that the
existing pools are still there and
people can provide, you know, like
if you go to Uniswap, they still have UniV2
and they have UniV3.
I see.
Yeah, so
yeah, quotes will be routed across
you know across the new infrastructure and the old infrastructure as well
so um you know so that you always know you're getting the best rate but um yeah yeah it's uh
it's it's quite the quite the challenge to honest. There's several different AMM styles,
like the different stable swaps, the UniV2 style pools.
We have the variable midpoint with SC stacks and stacks.
And then now we'll have the HODL MM as well.
So, yeah.
But it's also worked for stable swap pools, right?
This is going to be incredible for
stable swaps yeah like you can have um you know just thinking about hermetica and usdh and you
know maybe paired with usdc or something like that right you can have uh the all these the bins right
you for the hodl mm would maybe be one basis point apart in price um and so you could
have all this liquidity maybe between like you know not that it needs it but you know 95 cents
and like a dollar and five cents right like the majority of it between 99 cents and you know uh
a dollar and one cent right um and that's just going to be super super capital efficient so
higher much higher yields on the on the stable swaps as well um yeah not bullish because then
yeah then basically you know there's there's going to be more trading because yeah the prices are
better but there's going to be less people putting in liquidity and which then means that there'll be higher rates right because the there's more
trading and less capital in the pool so you just get to like a very natural equilibrium of like how
much tbl there is or like how much liquidity there is to trade for and and what the what the rates
are right because like today to supply liquidity on bitflow is not always like the most profitable
thing to do right
not for all pairs but then it will be much more much more so yeah i think the organic yield is
nice today but it's going to be much much uh much better with the hodl on them yeah
uh i mean if we take like usdc usdh for example right i mean there's like 600k of liquidity but
then you know the rates are like maybe a few percent but maybe we can have the same the same effect with less liquidity and
more trading as a result and then suddenly the rate is like 10 right
i love it taiko taiko uh promising 10 yields i'm just saying i'm just saying like this is like
it's much more likely at at least, than today.
No, you're right.
You're right.
It's definitely, like, to give a good example, I think.
I grew up the defa shark, dude.
We need to talk yields, you know.
We need to talk yields.
Yeah, yeah.
No, you told me about this example with Aerodrome, right? the volume of uni v3 is with a quarter of the liquidity on their, on their BTC.
Yeah.
USDC pool,
which is just goes to show like how,
like the markets will respond to how capital efficient the infrastructure is.
Right.
That,
you know,
kind of becomes the gold standard,
you know,
for dealing with CB BTC over on base.
And yeah, it's really not too big of a challenge
to get a similar level of liquidity
where we can offer, you know,
like no slippage in the bins, right?
And, but, you know, with enough liquidity
where we can become the gold standard on stacks as well
for getting Bitcoin in and out of DeFi or USDC
over to
btc dollar cost averaging into bitcoin um and of course like you know being the gold standard there
like the the yields will be much higher yeah i mean that's that's the thing really the um i mean
we've had a big very big technical discussion right but maybe to you know give some like high
level prospects of what this can lead to i mean basically if this
this infrastructure is out and it works well then you know stacks can make a push right to become
the biggest chain or the main chain where pvc and uscc are traded against each other
right today that's on base it's 100 million a day but they only do that with 25 million of liquidity
right it's not it's not a lot
and they do it with this kind of architecture so if we bring this to stacks and then we
you know work together with the sax endowment trying to really you know power up the the tvl
then you know 25 million is not a lot in crypto right um and an sbtc is much easier to get to
from btc than than cbbtc right cbbtc you have to go to coinbase and you have to get to from BTC than CBBTC, right?
CBBTC, you have to go to Coinbase and you have to go to Base,
and then you can trade for USDC here.
You can just, you know, when the cap opens in September,
you can just go to the website, drop your BTC in,
collect your SBTC one block later, swap to USDC,
and then, you know, when Wormhole and Axel are there,
then you can just
take it wherever you want right which is um yeah that's of course that's the real shit you know so
um yeah that's very that's very very exciting right to become the main chain where
where this happens or for stacking now it's very exciting because then
you know you can always kind of unstack basically right from
your from your lsts i mean today you can also do that right i quite often do that maybe swap like
20 30 maybe 50 000 staked stacks for stx and you know that works you take a little small hit but
like not more than like a you know a few days of stacking yield um but But if you want to do this with 3 million today,
then yeah, that's going to be difficult.
And there are people who want to do that with 3 million.
So it also makes stacking down more attractive.
It makes Zest protocol more attractive
because there's more debt that can be issued
because the liquidity for liquidations is deeper.
So it all very beautifully works together.
No, I think you paint a very nice picture.
Yeah.
I think this is one of the main bottlenecks for the ecosystem is that we don't have this
specific type of concentrated liquidity infrastructure.
Not all concentrated liquidity is built the same.
But yeah, you can see how it really just creates a nice flywheel for all the other apps as
well.
And the timing of it with SIP 31 passing, I think, you know, the Stacks ecosystem is
very much set up for success.
And I think now it's about executing.
And I think, yeah, I think all the protocols are going to benefit in a major way.
Couldn't be more exciting.
So, yeah, any thoughts, Jack, Jago, the advisor?
I also see we have Xero here that we would love to get to as well.
If you have any thoughts, Xero, then join.
Hey, hey, hey, GM, GM, GM.
What's up, everybody?
Thanks, Tycho.
Now, I just wanted to quickly say
I really appreciate the community
always coming together to support all of the builders here.
And as these Lego blocks keep getting built here,
it's important for all the other protocols and applications on Stacks, right?
Because what we're trying to do at Zero Authority is the future of work.
And to do that, we need to have a solid foundation of B5.
But not only that, we need to push the boundaries on what's possible. So to give you guys a couple of examples
of the conversations we have with an advisor, Jack, or the Bitflow boys, when people earn
through a gig or bounty, they want to automatically take that yield, that reward that they get,
that yield, that reward that they get, and put it into a Zest, get some yield, be able to take
that yield and put it into a LP pool in Bitflow to earn some more yield. So just allowing these
things to happen on the backend that allows that process to be pretty seamless, that's going to be
important in the future of Web3. We're at this point in the
journey of Web3 where people expect to have a beautiful interface. And I think that's what
I'm seeing across the ecosystem. We're all leveling up, providing a really nice experience.
The other thing too that's going to be key is people in, I really think next cycle too, people won't even know that they're using the
blockchain in many aspects. I think a lot of what we're all building here, it's going to be able to
bridge to Web2. And when they connect their APIs or the SDKs to their Web2 sites, people won't even know, while I'm using Bitcoin right now,
I'm transferring it across chains to do this thing that I really want to do, but I don't even know
that any of that is happening. So we almost become this infrastructure for this new Web3 and the
internet beyond. So just wanted to interject here, the innovation that I'm seeing in these Lego blocks coming together is so important.
So people like what we're trying to do at Zero Authority or what we've seen with different DeFi apps on Stacks or people building different applications for the consumer, they can do these things natively in the app and make it all seamless.
This is really incredible.
Tycho, were you going to say something?
No, just secure any hot takes.
You know, the advisor, Jack, I know you guys work a lot together or Dylan.
I know you guys work a lot together, or Dylan.
Well, I haven't tried it personally yet,
but I know that Robinhood is bringing tokenized equities on-chain, right?
And I think they're...
So just going off what you were talking about, Xero,
about not knowing that you're using a blockchain.
I mean, this is still like a financial use case for sure, right?
But being able to trade 24-7 and not know from the UX that you're, you know,
using a chain, I think is what they were kind of promising.
So, yeah, I think it's happening, you know, it's happening.
And you could see that expanding maybe a little bit further out
where you maybe have merchants, you know,
they want to be paid in, maybe they want to be paid in BTC, right?
But everyone else is just, you is just spending money in USD.
So they accept USDC, and then maybe part of their financial operations is converting some percentage of that automatically to BTC
or even borrowing against the BTC with something like Zest or Granite to be able to optimize working capital.
And that can feel pretty seamless for people that are trying to run their businesses.
But, you know, also one thing at a time,
let's get this out and make sure that we really nail, you know,
the strategy for being the best place to trade with BTC and USDC, right?
And execute on that pool and then execute on expanding to more tokens, right?
We have a very strong community in the Stacks ecosystem,
but I think it's also true that we need more tokens here.
So if we can really nail that BTC USDC pair and then also create,
you know,
you know,
deep liquidity in the,
like the ecosystem tokens that matter to the community,
you know,
what do we expand to next after that?
Right.
Does it make sense to try to bring some of these,
you know,
tokenized,
you know,
Bitcoin treasury companies, right. Bring those on chain. Does it, does it make sense to try to bring some of these tokenized Bitcoin treasury companies, bring those on chain?
Does it make sense to bring some of your favorite assets from the stock market over to Stax?
This is the kind of stuff that we're looking into and exploring,
like doing research with real market makers to say,
Like, you know, doing research with real market makers to say, hey, you know, we've got this thesis that you have this inventory risk from market making with USD.
And, you know, our thesis is that you guys could be more profitable if you were, instead of borrowing against treasuries, you were borrowing against Bitcoin.
against Bitcoin. And then instead of market making with USD, you're market making with BTC.
And then instead of market making with USD, you're market making with BTC.
And when tokens are ripping, that's going to perform very, very well. When tokens are growing
sideways, it's still going to perform well. And then there are other times when it might make
more sense for you to pair against USD if tokens are kind of tanking. So giving market makers the tools to be more profitable
and choosing between Bitcoin-denominated markets
and USD-denominated markets, right?
I think this is going to unlock a lot of opportunities for them
and also enable, like, a much smoother transition
away from a fiat standard to a Bitcoin standard.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, if we win USDC to BTC, right, on stacks,
then all the runes, like everything from L1 will come too, right?
Because it will just be the...
Stacks will be the place where you can go from USDC to those assets
and then also at uh at the lowest
slippage right so it will be a will be a magnet for all the all the sort of you know btc centered
centered assets to to also come come here yeah so very exciting exciting. I guess we'll get weekly updates on the development of all things HODL MM,
just as we get from all the other protocols here on the DeFi show.
But yeah, I realize we're already slowly getting at time.
So maybe we should share a couple of hooks, a couple of parting words from all of us for everyone here
as a way of slowly wrapping up.
I see some really big OGs here in the audience.
Also, GPSC is going to do a session
in the StackingNow Discord, I believe,
or the Zest Discord.
Maybe if you wanna quickly come up
to share a few words on that,
that would be great.
And, but yeah, you know, Raphael,
I see Prince Troy is here as well.
Martin Taylor, the micro strategy of Stacks
and one of the big Zest protocol power users, you know,
tripping monkey algorithm, avance.btc, Tasi, and just only LeoCats.
I see LeoCats everywhere.
So, so fortunately we didn't have Rubez here to talk about all the updates.
So from the, you know, the commander in-in-chief of the cat army on stacks.
But, wow, I see almost half of you guys have a cat.
So, I have a couple too.
I got a new one, actually.
Ace gave me one in a very clean Zest t-shirt.
So, I'll probably make a post of that uh of that of that soon but um
a huge shout out to the cat army and the the cat godfather because uh rubes is is just a maniac i
him and jack i talk to you guys all the time but what he's doing with this cat army and what he's doing is just incentivizing
creators to come together all over the world.
It's really fascinating to see.
And I know he just dropped 25 million Leo on zero authority, but more so than that,
the way this community comes together and just supports creators and builders,
that that's just phenomenal.
So shout out to roofs,
our guy.
Definitely.
Well,
we'll relay the message.
but yeah,
any,
what's,
what's going to happen next?
What's up guys?
happy Tuesday.
I hope everybody's having a very high frequency week. For today,
at around 1pm, we have, that is ET, we are having a Discord screen share in the Stacking
DAO Discord, and we're hosting CryptoDude. He's going to come on and show what he's been building
on. He's building this game that is connected to on-chain actions it's a third person shooter
game called fdstx so he's going to come show uh some of the game assets that he's been building
some of the functionality and uh you know also his boostx uh v2 has has launched so he's going to
show how you can signal support for different creators within the ecosystem with his options contract. So we're getting straight into it, diving into the alpha.
And if you participate and we get over 10 participants, we're going to be doing a giveaway
for $10 in SDSDX.
So worth a shot, man.
A lot of alpha goes down in these screen shares.
So come have some fun with the base community and get into the alpha
amazing
so we know where we need to be
1pm so that's in 2 hours
from now
but yeah the advisor Jack
Diego any
final words
call to actions
I don't know how you could listen to this space and not just be amazingly bullish.
I mean, if you just cut this down to the fundamentals here, what we're talking about is not just using crypto as emerging tech, but we're talking about the better way to do things.
And it's the better way to do finances. It's the better way to do things. And it's the better way to do finances.
It's the better way to do everything.
We're going to see the space change so rapidly and grow so rapidly.
Obviously, DeFi is massive.
I've been a fan of DeFi since the first DeFi summer on Ethereum.
But to see where we're headed now, it's just mind-blowing, man.
So kudos to everybody up here building because you're building the future.
We're building more opportunity for everybody.
We're building a better world when you get to the end of the day here.
So, yes, pay attention. And like I said, follow that Hermetica account because
you're not going to want to mix what's coming next.
Yeah. Couldn't be more excited. I agree to Jack. It's summer, but we're not stopping. We're building. Quick reminder that we have some high-yield liquidity pools.
We extended the flex pool for ST stacks and stacks.
These are the promotional emissions for another 30 days.
So enjoy those boosted emissions on stacking Dow while you're still earning StackingDAO points
and StackingDAO liquid staking yield.
Of course, there's Leopool, there's Bobpool, there's Droid,
all yielding some good numbers, double digits.
You have USDH as well.
So check it out, trade and earn and stack more Bitcoin on Biflo.
Follow us, join the Discord community.
We got a bunch of stuff coming, especially with Hot OMM, early testers, better testers.
There's all this cool stuff and we want to hear your feedback and looking forward to what's next.
So I appreciate you all.
So we'll go next.
And regarding StackingDoll, let's say, keep joining the Discord because there you have
JP holding many activities for the community and entering the Stacks community.
While to stay up to date,
there's a lot of stuff cooking off our zest
for the last few weeks.
A lot of USDC and SBTC
have flown in and more is coming
and more is under work, so make sure
to follow the Twitter to keep up with the news.
Same with StackingDAO
as we get to close in
towards the 100 million STX
milestone.
Maybe Thaik will want to share a few final things but i think that's it for stacking now as our side yeah no absolutely absolutely i
mean we're looking forward to uh new all-time highs on uh on on zest protocol we're in that
territory where uh every day then some new tvl flows in we're at a new new all-time high i guess
just as it's stacking now and um and yeah just wanted to thank you thank you very much for for
tuning in i mean you know it's really um it's a really big crowd here i mean 160 people
of which at least 100 cats uh are uh are here and um yeah that goes to show there's some real
there's some real momentum in this ecosystem right every time we come on here there's there's more people joining in listening in learning about
all the opportunities for bitcoin finance that that stacks offers and and yeah we just keep
building you know one one building block at a time so so yeah thank you very much for uh for for
coming on this journey with us i mean it wouldn I mean, it wouldn't be possible without all of you guys.
So whether you're a first-time listener or whether you've already used all the apps a thousand times over the past year,
such as Martin Taylor, for example, or Prince Troy, I'm sure.
You're all very much appreciated.
And, and yeah, we look forward to, to reuniting with, with, with all of you this time next week.
So it's going to be 10 a.m. Eastern time next week on Tuesday.
So basically same time, same day, same DeFi show with the same people so until then stay safe on chain and uh that will
speak soon bye guys
