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Stacks SIP AMA
Recorded: June 3, 2025 Duration: 1:13:06Space Recording
Short Summary
The Stacks community is rallying around SIP 31, a transformative proposal aimed at positioning Stacks as the leading layer for Bitcoin, with strong engagement and support from key figures in the ecosystem. Discussions emphasize the importance of growth, inclusivity, and a metrics-driven approach to marketing and funding, as the community seeks to capitalize on emerging opportunities in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. All right, all right. Let's just give it a few minutes to get started. If you can hear
me, can you flash me a thumbs up?
We can, in fact, hear you.
Awesome.
Also, I'm excited for this one.
I cannot talk for another three hours today, though.
Dude, you've been crushing it with these long-form spaces.
Just, you know, absolute props.
Honestly, they're a ton of fun.
I like it.
The engagement that we've seen from people and the quality and depth of conversation
and insight and questions sharing that's been going going on all of these has been so amazing.
Yeah, I was going to say, I think people forget that this isn't normal.
You can only peek around at other ecosystems and actually have like an educated, intellectually honest conversation.
And like we're actually able to improve the SIP
because of that.
This doesn't happen in every ecosystem.
I think maybe even like we can take it for granted
at times in stacks, because that's always what we've had.
And we have a real organic community,
but yeah, it's not normal.
And it's great.
This is not normal.
Someone else coming out loud.
How was Vegas, Mitchell?
Vegas was great.
I got to talk to you.
I wasn't on as many spaces as you,
but I did get to talk to a lot of people in real life.
People are excited.
The Stacks event was great.
Full house.
The booth was overrun at all times you know big shout out to
adam and grant and a bunch of other folks shannon of course worked the booth um yeah i think uh i
think the general vibe there was you know so many people had good news to share that week as well
that um it was cool to be able to see some people i saw i saw dylan um joe from lunar crush
all kinds of folks so it was it was it was wonderful and then i actually was there over
the weekend as well doing some other stuff and got home last night and got to sleep in my own bed so
excited to be back here and back in the normal flow and be on some more spaces this week. Hope you will save much money at the tables. Mitchell.
I did not.
I stayed.
I was too busy.
I stayed away.
You know, I figure I figure we work in a.
You know, you start up already.
We're already exactly.
You know, we're already we're already doing enough on the on that side.
So I got to say, I'm impressed because five or six nights in Vegas is too many nights.
I don't know how you did.
Yeah, it didn't feel like enough.
There's so many people to see and, you know, lots of great deals got done in Vegas as well.
So there are a lot of great meetings and things.
So it was worth it.
All right. Should we get started started looks like we have a quorum
so yeah just to get just to kick things off um just want to welcome everyone gmgm uh welcome to today's space where we're diving into the stacks, SIP 31, a game-changing proposal to fuel Stacks growth
as the home of the entire Bitcoin economy.
So we're thrilled to host these regular sessions to keep you all updated, share progress, and
most importantly, hear feedback and answer your questions.
The community's engagement across the entire ecosystem has been just nothing short of incredible,
and I really think it's
bullish to see so many voices shaping this SIP. So for today, we've got an all-star speaker lineup,
Muneeb Ali, obviously the Stacks founder and CEO of Trust Machines, Alex Miller, CEO of Hero,
and Mitchell Cuevas, interim executive director of the Stacks Foundation, as well as myself,
Lior Shimron, former head of growth at StackingDAO and an active member of the Stacks Foundation, as well as myself, Lior Shimron, former Head of Growth at StackingDAO,
and an active member of the Stacks community.
So just to kick things off,
I'd love to go around the horn
with all the speakers here today.
Maybe we can start by hearing your initial thoughts
about the SIP, any big feedback that you wanna know,
anything you wanna comment on in terms of the sip process
but yeah i'll give you guys the floor why don't we start with muneeb
oh do we lose muneeb saw he was just up here looks like we lost him i can go real quick while
we let him figure i'm sure he'll be back.
Yeah, my thoughts are, one, you know, I'm actually writing some of these up in a longer post, but
one, like I said, like us folks were joining, grateful for the engagement. This is sort of
the process working. I know at times it can feel contentious even or like people are arguing, but this is what is supposed to happen,
and you release a SIP. It's a proposal. The community helps strengthen the proposal. You
get to hear from all different sides. So A, I just, I'm glad to see the process is working.
I didn't have any doubts that it wouldn't. That was the first thing. Second thing is I think we've been able to gain a lot of insights
on to where to just clarify things in the SIP.
Definitely seems like big picture people
are understanding the need in general.
And now it's about clarifying some of the execution stuff,
which is a great place to be in.
I think a good example is like, you know, builders,
like, what does it mean when you say builders? And I think, you know, it's easy to forget
sometimes like that, like adding specificity to that language that builders doesn't mean just
DeFi builders, it can mean all kinds of builders, creators, and all the types of folks we've done
programs for in the past, the NFT community, meme coin community, these kinds of things. So that was another one. I think Alex has been driving great
clarifications on those that are getting added back into the SIP.
And then, you know, last but not least, I think
just making sure that we've been able to get that buy-in in the big picture, right? I think people
are rightfully going to have questions. They should have questions, right? It's a big thing,
right? But as we've been able to have these conversations, the need for fuel for growth,
everyone seems to be on the same page about that. And now it's just a matter
of, okay, well, what are the safety? What are the precautions that we want to add? What are the
assurances that we want to add? And that's exactly what authors of the SIP hope to get in this
process. So yeah, it's been great. I'll stop talking. I have some other things too. But like I said, I'm writing a longer post.
I'd love to hear from Alex as well.
Yeah, I'll echo, I think, a lot of stuff that Mitchell said.
The I've really enjoyed the level of engagement.
It's crazy.
It's awesome.
The insights are incredible, as we kind of said.
The only part of me, the only part that I'm, I guess,
that's been a little hard for me
or that I've been dismissed by is it does,
I've definitely heard very much from folks
how they haven't always felt fully represented
or that their area of the community
has been ignored.
I don't know if ignored is the right word,
but they haven't had
the resource they want to things and that it came across that this was going to be more of that.
Right. And I know that like when I was having some of the early conversations that or just like
when I talked to Mitchell or, you know, so she folks at the Stats Foundation on a regular basis,
that's very much like not, I think, any of the conversation or any of any of the desire of it.
And so, you know, that's a lot of like like, the changes that I'm working on right now,
the outline of which, you know, I posted up on the forum yesterday,
if you haven't seen them.
I would, you know, would love for folks to take a look at,
and part of what I want to talk about today is those changes
that me and Tripp and Monk are working on for it,
is really meant to just try and capture and pull that in.
Because that's, you know, my number one priority is making sure that it feels like
we all have really good strategic vision alignment on these things.
And, but yeah, like you said, overall, I really got to thank everyone who's
contributed thoughts on it so far and have worked with me on it and helped me understand all of those things and the different perspectives on it so that we can make it better.
Yeah, I think something that really struck me was just kind of the fervor and how passionate the entire Stacks community really proved to be, you know, just kind of as a direct initial response to the draft of this SIP, you
know, I think it points to just how engaged the entire community is, which is kind of the best
case scenario. I know I think that overwhelmingly there's been a lot of positive sentiment, a lot
of support for the SIP, but also understandably there's been some detractors or just more kind
of folks expressing concerns or questions or things that need to be
clarified. Yeah, maybe on that point, Alex, maybe you can comment on that. Yeah, well, I think you
hit a really important thing there is that, again, even when I'm talking to folks who have concerns,
you know, or flagging these issues and things I'm talking about, we're all on the same page,
it sounds like, as the goal of like, where we want stacks to go. And even there's a lot of openness to doing mints and things, even for people who, again, have a discomfort with it.
It's all about like, hey, if we're going to do this, if we're going to go forward on it,
how do we make sure that it's doing what it's supposed to do, that everyone feels bought in,
that it feels transparent and accountable to everyone so it's
that's why i was saying like all of these conversations even when we're having tough
ones have felt very solutions oriented and i think that's a lot of what we're going to talk about
today now i feel like i'm just stalling for time for a need to get his mic working
get his mic working that's okay we don't need him
that's okay we don't need him
yeah it's not like none of us would be here without him
by the way i don't know i think if you try maybe inviting him to co-host instead or i guess
whoever's got the current host set up inviting him to co-host instead no invite him to co-host
not me to co-host because sometimes that, invite him to co-host, not me to
co-host. Because sometimes that works if someone can't be made a speaker.
Twitter space is just like, do not work.
Man, I know. They've been so tough the last couple of weeks, of course.
If I had some sacks every time I got rugged on Twitter space.
We wouldn't need to make a new endowment. You could just handle it.
Oh yeah. But anyway, yeah, just, let's just get things moving along. Mitchell, you mentioned
you wanted to shed some light on, on programs that maybe you have been overlooked or some
of the work that folks across the system have been working on. Sure. Sure. I think so. My main intent with that is, I think that, you know,
crypto is a space that moves fast and there's always like a certain hot thing, right? And as
an ecosystem, if you want to stay relevant, whether that's in the news cycle or on the minds of
traders or investors, you've got to do something.
It's not chasing every trend, but you do need to have answers to the thing that's sort of hot at
that time or that's driving a lot of activity. So a good example is the NFT community.
On some of the commentary, it made me a little sad because it's such a personal area of passion.
And the Stacks Foundation did a ton of programming around NFTs.
Even in my personal time, I ran a program called the Mintry.
We had Web3 a week.
More recently, we did the Mojo NFT campaign, which was the top project in NFTs for a couple of months around the Nakamoto launch and so forth.
top project in NFTs for a couple of months around the Nakamoto launch and so forth.
And so I mentioned these, not in case people so much have forgotten about them, but just as
even more importantly, an example of the types of programming that
I'd like to see come back with the new endowment.
You know, as a small foundation with limited resources, we have to make tough choices. And so if NFTs are not the thing that's helping stacks stay the most relevant, it's not something that we can focus on, right? We had to toggle our focus to make sure that Nakamoto got shipped, and then SBTC got shipped, and then the roadmap got shipped, and you know, now that's it.
got shipped and then the roadmap got shipped and you know now that's it and so i think with an
expanded resource set you don't you can run a lot more things in parallel and so things where you
know we've seen high impact from a program like the mintry you know really helped bootstrap early
nft culture on stacks um you could do more of those on a regular basis without having to make as stark a choice
between what's the highest priority for stacks core and what's the programming that we can do
for either community or builders at that time. And so, you know, I'm mentioning it here, but
I have my own wish list that I'm going up in a in a post here and reflect on some
of the programs that we've done that i think have worked the best um and you know alex love to work
with you to add some of those specifically into sip so i think it's a lot of those programs that
people can see themselves in and just reminding people i I think none of that's been forgotten. I think it does happen that DeFi gets talked a lot
about right now because SBTC is sort of this wedge
for stacks going to market,
but that doesn't mean anything else is less important.
And I'll add this too is for me personally,
in case it wasn't obvious,
my personal area of passion lies in the creative side of the ecosystem.
I've run a lot of those programs on my own time, sometimes adding my own personal budget and things like that. And that is an area of the ecosystem a lot of my team cares deeply about as well.
ecosystem a lot of my team cares deeply about as well and even even things like bns and nfts
where nfts cross over with ordinals the music side of things not sure if kitty is here but
um those are all the kinds of things that i think many of us in the stacks ecosystem got into crypto
for in general and so those those aren't going to go anywhere. I think
really like DeFi is getting the, they're the one that's in the limelight right now. There's
no arguing that because that's going to be a hook to drive growth for all of us.
But none of the other stuff goes away. I mean, and those are the beating heart areas of our
community anyway. So one idea I pitched, and I don't know all the legalities of this,
but I'm sure very smart people will figure it out,
is I've seen other ecosystems and other foundations
that are not headquartered in the U.S.
be able to do some pretty cool things on the meme coin side as well.
And again, these are like the creative parts of the community are
the most vocal, the most engaged, like I said, they're the beating heart of the community.
And so being able to have this new endowment or one of the orgs that it can allocate funding to
be able to step in those arenas that we've wanted to but can't is also really exciting to me. And so I think having some specificity or allocations
toward those things proactively in the SIP
is easy enough because they're all programs
that the people that are contributing want to do anyway.
So I think it's just a matter of figuring out what and when.
Yeah, great point.
Just wanna mention for folks in the audience,
if you have any questions, please feel free to request to speak. And as soon as we finish our kind of initial remarks, we'd love to turn the floor over to any questions. This time is really for all of you. But now that we have Muneeb, looks like you're here. How's it going, man?
Hey man, I'm good. Good to finally be able to speak. I don't know what was going on.
I am a little under the weather. I was coming back from Bitcoin Vegas and I've probably
traveled too much or caught a bug. Excited to be here. I think I've been catching up on a lot
of the discussions, the forum posts, the Twitter threads and so on. And the thing that stands out to me is that
I do think that there is strong alignment
on having a bold vision
and actually attempting something big here.
So I think that's probably the most important thing.
Everyone seems to be aligned that,
especially for me,
with some of the technical breakthroughs like self-custodial Bitcoin, these are really big things.
And I think everyone wants to aim big and wants to create a large, successful ecosystem that has a large impact on Bitcoin and the world.
And there seems to be a lot of alignment.
And then I think when people get into the specifics of, you know, how are things getting created or where the allocations are going, how the governance would work, I think those are all really good questions to ask.
But I just want to start with saying that, you know, it's great to see like such strong alignment around these things.
And I want to thank Alex as well.
I think it looks like maybe the first version of the SIP came across as led by DeFi builders.
And I think Alex has done a great job trying to address some of those comments.
And as Mitchell has mentioned, I think this is really growth resources for every part of the ecosystem. I don't think it's just
directed towards any single thing. Yes, you know, DeFi is a big part of it because, you know,
we are talking about Bitcoin and people want to lend and borrow it and trade it and do all of
those things. But I think this goes to core development. This goes to security.
It goes to NFTs.
It goes to meme coins.
It goes to any aspect of the ecosystem.
It goes to branding.
It goes to-
Integrations.
We know how expensive those are.
Seven-figure deals a lot of times
for the top requests in the community.
And those bridges and things benefit everybody.
100%.
100%.
All these integrations that people are waiting on or keep asking about.
Some of the more positive reactions I've seen, people have literally said that it seems like they've been listening for more than a year for every single thing that can be done better and everything is incorporated.
I think this is sort of,
sort of like the, the, the place that we are at, uh, with the SIP.
So I think I want to really jump into the questions that people have,
but maybe one thing I'll do is like, just like last night,
I was answering some questions from people.
So maybe I'll just repeat the answers here as, as that would,
that would help others.
So some of the questions that I was getting were, one was that, you know, why doing this through inflation?
And I think that mentality really comes from Bitcoin mentality, like fixed supply.
I don't think everyone fully realizes that the stacks and missions have changed four times already in the history.
And every time there was a SIP, every time there was a very specific thing that we were trying to solve for,
like the most relevant one I can think of is when mining was starting in 2021,
there was a concern that there aren't going to be enough miners.
there was a concern that there aren't going to be enough miners.
So there was a change in the emissions at that time through a SIF process
to drastically increase the mining rewards for a short period of time.
That's very similar to, you know, sort of like what we are doing over here.
And that actually worked.
There were so many miners on the netbook at the beginning and it really kick-started.
And there were at that time a lot of, reasons for why we need a strong number of miners
because we had to show that the network is fully decentralized.
We did the SEC qualified offering and so on.
So that emissions change actually solved a very real problem for us.
And it worked and it kicked off the network in a great way.
And there was strong sort of like, you know, price action as well and all of those things.
And similarly, so that's the first point that stack supply was never meant to be.
It's not a fixed supply asset, right?
There's always emissions and you just look at the rate of emissions and what these emissions
are being used for. And they have been adjusted four times in the past this would be the fifth time that the
community is coming together and is trying to solve a problem just right in front of us like
how do we unlock the next level of growth so i think that's one level set i want to do and the
second one is that people are feeling or at least some questions that i was getting is that people are feeling, or at least some questions that I was getting, is that somehow
all this capital is going into some centralized entity and so on. That structure is so well
thought out. First of all, there are no shareholders. No shareholders in the endowment,
no shareholders of the operational entity. There are multiple levels of checks and balances.
There's a way that community can nominate people who are on the committee
that's going to appoint the members of the treasury committee.
There are rotations, there are budgets,
sort of like checks and balances that the operational entity
is only going to get budget for only a year.
There are other ways of getting grants and so on.
So it's a very well
thought out structure. There's no single person because these entities don't have any shareholders.
There's no single person that's benefiting from it. It's like almost like a public thing that's
there for public good. Anyone who is part of the Stacks ecosystem or is a older of SDX gets to
benefit from it. And the last thing I would share is that
in my discussions with some of the large holders,
like the sophisticated funds,
like they actually get it really, really fast.
For them, the calculation is very easy.
That even if they're getting two or 3% additional
quote-unquote dilution per year,
they're looking at a 200% potential upside.
So that's for them,
I'm just talking about the large holders' mentalities,
like the sophisticated funds.
For them, it's a no-brainer.
They take a little bit of a 2%, 3% additional thing,
and you have a potential 200%, 300% upside there.
They do that for a living.
That's how they make investments and make returns. Let me pause there. They do that for a living. That's how they make investments and make returns. Let me pause
there.
Cool.
I think let's kick it off with some questions.
We can
say, Njo,
you've been engaging a lot on this.
You're talking, your your mics weird and cutting in and out you guys hear me?
Yeah, yeah. I think we can blame spaces again.
All right.
Oh, there we go.
Okay, now we can hear you.
All right, getting rugged on one of the most important Twitter spaces I've ever participated in.
Hey, guys. No, Alex, it's been awesome.
I wanted to echo a little bit of what Mitchell said and a little bit of what Muneev said.
I've been kind of searching for narrative in this more so. I mean, we can dive into the
technical details and the percentages and dilution and that's all stuff we can work out. But on just
a broader crypto picture, because this is a little bit of unprecedented.
I think Mitchell, you set the stage a little bit.
I mean, it's kind of one of the reasons memes
are so popular, they're pure narrative plays.
You know, the dog memes from Doge to Shib to Bonk
to we see with Welsh and dog,
and then, you know, what CryptoKitties did
to the Ethereum chain and for NFTs back years and years ago to Leo. It's these amazing stories.
So what's the narrative behind SIP31? And you know it goes back to this because we're having to disconnect a little bit with Bitcoin.
We're like, oh, you know, fixed supply and we can't raise the we can't go back and then change the protocol.
I think that's the purpose of of Stax.
You know, Bitcoin is the pristine asset.
It's the L1 that if we want a cryptocurrency to be the global reserve currency, It has to be the fixed bedrock.
The L2 is where you make the changes. And so Stax has been around since conceived in 2013,
2015 green traction, 2017 token came out, 2019 the ICO. It's been difficult to build on Bitcoin.
And now we're entering this new age of AI
and we're seeing more and more chains come online
with monster treasuries, you know, the rise of NIR and SUI.
And, you know, our industry is not gonna succeed
if every couple of years, it's just some shiny new toy.
If it's Solana and then SUI,
we need a strong layer two built on bitcoin and right now stacks is that it stacks
and so if we have to go through it if we have if we come together as a community many brilliant
smart minds all working together and say hey look you know to really make bitcoin defy a thing the
best decision is to raise the supply and increase emissions for a little while.
There's going to be a bunch of initial fund,
and I think that's what a lot of us are working through now,
but that's the story that we're developing here as a community so that when SIP31 does come through
and that now it's our community versus the broader crypto community
and all the Bitcoin layers and Bitcoin magazine and all the stuff that's going to, you know, all the different, all this, all the fun that we're working through now is going to come right back at us.
And then we're, but we're going to be strong.
And as a community, like, no, hey, this is the story.
This is the narrative that we're trying to tell.
that we're trying to tell.
So that's where I'm landing on this SIP 031 mission
that we're on.
Cool.
I would say Mitchell,
assuming you're still up here,
is that anything you got thoughts on?
No, that makes a lot of sense to me.
I think narratives are everything in crypto.
It's an important thing to think about. For me, the narrative of the SIP no that makes a lot of sense to me i think uh narratives are everything in crypto um it's that's
it's an important thing to think about for me the narrative of the sip really just has a lot to do
with um i think it's obviously growth um and more than that just right sizing stacks to the opportunity
I think we lost Mitchell.
Yeah, I think we did.
God, I think I like the narrative of like, you know, Stacks is the layer that adapts
and changes so Bitcoin doesn't have to.
Yeah.
I've been saying that to people for a while
and I think that it resonates
it makes sense
alright cool
I know we also have gotten
someone just sent me a screenshot
of some messages
that have been going around
sorry
I think a couple of questions
that are good reflections of questions we've gotten.
So this is from patty.btc,
which is how exactly will it work for proposal
to funding via the endowment?
What's the reason for permanent seats
on the treasury committee?
And are there any other committees
or decision makers involved in remotes?
So I'm gonna start with a couple of like general general thoughts on this because I've spent a lot of time on
governance both here in the Stacks ecosystem and non-profits and stuff like that.
The first thing I think that we all need to keep in mind is like the most important thing as we
kind of talked about is general like alignment and making sure there's good overall structures without hard coding too many things.
And the reason for that is, is like, this is a funding thing that is supposed to last for like 20 years.
Well, really for the all of time. Right. But it's not like the goal here is not to like raise a bunch of money over a couple of years and spend it all right down.
It is to quite literally build an endowment that can fund things for a long time. And so making sure
that we have the ability to continually update exactly what's being funded or exactly how it's
being worked, how it's working is really important. So we're not having to constantly go back and like
make things up again, or we're not wasting money on things that are no longer relevant um the example i gave for
this on sunday or yesterday when we're talking is like it's kind of like in california or even at
the federal level here in the u.s where like we can't update the budget each year because like so
many of the spends are locked in even if they're like not relevant anymore so part of the goal
here with creating
the Treasury Committee and having the operational entity versus the endowment is it's all about the
endowment focusing on how to make sure we always have the money and what the major grants are,
and then the operational entity constantly updating their strategies, tactics, based on
what is relevant to it or what's relevant
to the world and like what we're trying to do at the given point there.
So kind of with that in mind, jumping back into those specific questions, how will it
work for proposal to funding via the endowment?
Again, that's stuff that'll like the actual details of exactly like what an application for funding looks like will, I think, be figured, you know, that's something that the endowment staff will have to figure out.
the kind of operational labs type entity.
And as Manib said, that there's a reason it's an annual one.
It is so that if that entity is not doing a good job, that money can be redirected elsewhere
by the endowment who's responsible to the community for reporting on an ongoing basis,
for showing that these things are being used well.
They'll also make direct grants to some things.
Like, for instance, I know, you know, D-Grants program is very popular, whether that's the exact name of the program or whatever.
But the point is funding all the way through the builder lifecycle.
This is not just a thing where like money gets handed to big apps or something.
In order to, you know, have big apps, you have to have small apps.
You have to have people who can come in and get started on the ecosystem.
And so I think what those applications look like also vary by size and stage, right? You want to
make it really easy for new builders to come in. And as soon as they've demonstrated, they've done
a little bit of traction and that they're actually committed to building in the space, get them the
resources that they need. And maybe that's not even direct money. Maybe it's, you know, security
audits, incubator-type setups.
Maybe it is money, whatever it is. Those are the taxes that have to be updated. But we need really
good resources for new small and indie builders who are coming into the ecosystem.
What's the reason for permanent seats on the Treasury Committee?
Reason for permanent seats on the Treasury committee is that the permanent seats are the ones who are the actual key holders on the treasury committee and that
means they actually are the ones who hold you know the multi-sig keys to the mint addresses
and one thing we've talked about right is that all of the tokens flow through the mint address
so that it is completely traceable on chain by the community at any given
time um and then the uh so those key holders because like rotating keys is a huge pain in the
ass and it needs to be um uh oh i'm sorry trying to get mitchell back up on stage but mitchell if
you can hear me i hit accept on your request and it it then errored out and said Mitchell can't be added.
So rotating keys is a huge, huge, you know, both security risk and difficulty. I'm not saying it
will never have to be done, but the expertise needed to like manage those kinds of setups and
follow all the security procedures and things. The initial feeling was that it is better to just have a set number of folks who are
highly trustworthy, who are highly experienced in managing those kinds of things to be the
permanent seats on it for holding those keys.
And then they still have to be constantly talking to the community, making sure they're
up to date on things, as well as doing the rotating seats on it um
am i back yes you're back oh my god you're here yeah wow this is brutal we gotta get someone's
gotta call elon and have them hire some engineers back or something it's nuts For the permanent members,
another thing worth noting is that
they're legally binded to
only do the things that the Treasury Committee
tells them to do. So it's not like they
can just go off and do whatever they want.
They're just a subset
who execute the
grants as
directed by the
Treasury Committee.
All right, Nevis, you got your hand up.
Hey Alex, what's up?
Thanks for allowing me to speak.
I've been following what's going on with Stats for a long time.
And I'm from Cyprus, Europe.
And what you guys are doing is very interesting. I'm bringing Laird 2 adoption into the crypto community.
So I do have a question.
I do have a question.
I think it's going to be very basic, but
I also think that it's very important to reach out to people like us that we're not evolving
to the Bitcoin network except holding Bitcoin or doing any DeFi or any other operations on
or any other operations on a layer 2 on Bitcoin.
So there is a notion around the world that Bitcoin is slow, it's expensive, and it's archaic.
Would you agree with me on that? I mean, I think Bitcoin is built to be extremely stable and reliable,
as opposed to, like, the most cutting-edge thing, similar to...
I mean, there's a reason we call it digital gold, right?
By the way, your mic is now cutting out.
Is it... I think the space is now cutting out. Is it?
I think the space is maybe some issues.
Is it okay now?
Yeah, now we can hear you.
All right, so don't get me wrong.
I love Bitcoin.
Everything that's going on with Bitcoin and what you guys are doing, but being around
for the first time I've seen blockchain was 1997 i was studying at mit so
i've been around so why not use you know xrp ledger or or algorand or as you said earlier sui
or some other networks which you know you could do your transactions and they have insane communities
on mean based tokens and other stuff that people you know people
of all ages they get in they have fun they make money they do these hyper fast transactions they
don't really care what's going on behind the scenes so um yeah my my question to repeat is there's some other networks out there that they're
also stable and fast and cheap.
What sets you apart?
I mean, what are you trying to achieve with this new proposal?
Which I read it and I think it makes perfect sense.
I think it's you obviously need money to push forward and the stocks the
only the only application i just want to start with uh curve media with usd conversion and
having yields from bitcoin so yeah my question still stands how will you draw me to this ecosystem, me and my friends?
So, by the way, sorry, I'm going to mute you real quick because when I'm talking, it's
feeding back audio through you.
So I'll try and answer this quick, and then I want to try and stay focused on kind of
the core SIP topics because I know we only have a bit of time with folks, and I know
the community still got a lot of questions on that. But I'll just say,
I think fundamentally, look, we've spent a lot of time talking with everyone from small users and,
you know, a bunch of folks on this call, for instance, up through like the largest institutions
who run hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin in their portfolios uh you know or for clients and the
thing that is very very clear is that people want to be able to use their bitcoin they want to earn
yield on their bitcoin they want to store things permanently on the bitcoin chain um and know that
it's going to be there forever because bitcoin is the chain that everyone is you know is really convinced will be around for a long time it's the thing that has the trust
um but it is slow it is it has to become more expensive right we've all talked plenty about
the security budget it has to get very expensive and so adding the speed the programmability but
the security you know all settled back on top of the security of Bitcoin is the place for stacks to go.
And as we've seen from how many people have tried L2s, but are all kind of burning out, like we're kind of the OG here.
We're the ones who've been building it well for a long time.
And I think we're the ones that will stand the test of time alongside Bitcoin, even as we constantly have
to evolve with it. Yeah. My answer is even shorter. It's POX. Why would we not use other
chains? Why would we not do those other things? POX provides the unique properties that institutions
that many of the builders and so forth all need and want in a Bitcoin layer to visibility in a
Bitcoin state, all those kinds of things. So I think that's the short answer on like, why not some other solution?
Stacks has always been built up from the bottom up to connect in the deepest, most native
way to Bitcoin.
You just can't replicate that with other options.
Yep.
All right.
Binaya, I know that you...
Were you signaling to me, Alex?
Looks like it's Alex's turn to get rubbed.
Let's hit the next question.
I know we had a question for Binaya before.
Can you... are you here?
I'm here.
Hello.
Good morning.
Good morning.
I think Angel was trying to go.
If there's, he didn't have any questions, yeah, I'd like to go.
Yes.
Okay.
Sorry.
So, yeah, I was saying, Benaya, if you want to add, you know, jump in with whatever you're thinking about, because I know you had posted a whole write-up on the forum.
Yes. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Alex. Good morning, everyone. It's awesome to be here. Good to hear some great thoughts. Keep it short.
summary of my thoughts and some of the changes I'd like to see and some of the
proposals that's been changed has come about from a discussion with some of the
folks that have been around in the ecosystem for a long time and from the
grassroots people that have been training onboarding and helping users
get on board and then stay active in the ecosystem, especially through programs like D-Grants and other initiatives that came out of D-Grants,
like Builders Academy, D-Organized, and so on.
So anyway, my main concern, I understand I'm totally on board with CIP 31,
with C31 what is trying to achieve and the new direction needed for the map you know to put a
stacks on the map like top 10 and so on my main concern is my first initial thought was okay why
do we need this new stacks I thought stacks foundation had Stacks to do all these things.
But apparently I was wrong.
After talking with a bunch of people that work in the foundation and around the foundation,
after talking to them in person and online over the past week, especially after this ship dropped,
that there's really limited resources to really achieve at the highest level.
So, okay, that makes sense.
But even with whatever resources Foundation had, the way Foundation went about in terms
of prioritizing the critical aspect of the change that needed to be worked was not always balanced with the direction or the vibes that the community was feeling at the time.
I'm just using simple words.
is that even with this new entity that will be formed,
it will have its priority, it will have its milestones
and things that it needs to focus on.
What is to stop this new entity from being or acting in a similar way
as the foundation has been working on
and still have that disconnect with the grassroots. And also, I think having
a new entity with access and control over the huge amount of capital to be deployed,
if there is no counterbalance or the check on that particular entity.
I know that folks have mentioned, even Moody mentioned, that this will be a community-selected council.
They will have mandates.
There will be boundaries as to how and where things will be spent and so on.
where and things will be spent and so on but it's still right so it can seem like from the outside
But it's still, right?
that okay this new council will be either folks that have been in the foundation or work in the
foundation now or like work closely with the foundation or the other entities like trust
machines or hero or other d5 protocols like okay okay, Alex, Valar, America, Bitflow.
So people that have established, raised money in the ecosystem, you know, I'm assuming like
people either from these entities or work closely with these entities will have kind
of higher stakes into forming these councils and the ultimate decision that comes of these.
So this in tandem with the priority that the council sets will go forward in one way or the other.
And sometimes there might be misalignment with the grassroots and how people in the trenches might like to do
or like have say otherwise.
So in order for these two functions, like to counterbalance the direction
that the actual council might have and then be a heads against,
like what is to say that, who is to say that the thing that this new council prioritizes
the thing that this new council prioritizes is the absolute best thing to do.
is the absolute best thing to do, right?
Right. So, so we need like a, something like the higher risk,
a faster deployment,
like the alternate path that also acts as a counterbalance to council and also
reaches out to the grassroots in a way D grants has done.
So for these purposes, let me, let me, let,
I think we all kind of understood the question.
Let me get into the answer here.
Everyone hear me okay?
Yeah, I'll just wrap up this last statement and then I'll get on with that.
Just let me close.
Yeah, thank you, Mr.
So anyway, so for these purposes, I think there's a need for a separate entity that has a specific allocation, and I'm proposing 10% from the newly minted stacks to perform these activities and then be community up front.
Thank you. Thank you, Mitchell.
Yeah, of course. Let me jump into the sort of first assertion, I think.
I don't necessarily agree that there's been a lot of at odds with each other in terms of what the foundation is working on and what people need.
I think there's lag. And I think that comes from the fact that everyone in the community has a different perspective on what's the most important thing at that time.
And so our job is to listen to a lot of inputs, a lot of sources, and to try to work on the things that are most important.
I didn't see this sort of trend or feeling in the community ever emerge until we went super heads down on Nakamoto and SBTC.
And that took a year, right?
And then definitely it felt like some of the other places in the ecosystem were neglected because they were.
And I think that's exactly why we need
this SIP, right? It's we have, and Trust Machines here, all the contributing orgs, all the builders,
all of you out there that are working on things in Stacks, you have limited resources too, and you
have to make tough choices about what you're working on and when. And that's really all it
is. So to your point about how those tough choices get made, you know, we just drove a community wide open process on the roadmap with the builders, right? So these are not things that we or anyone else went and decided. We did the same thing before. And we actually used to do that quarterly, where we would drive a roadmap process and an update every single quarter. I think with more resources and bigger teams,
you can do that monthly basis. You can do that quarterly. You can make sure that there aren't
these areas of the ecosystem that feel like they're getting neglected, or at least be able
to communicate way far in advance. Hey, like this is going to be a time where we're hyper-focused
on NFTs and like everyone understands why that's strategic. One of the things I'm actually writing
up is an area that the ecosystem is
just going to have to get stronger in as we enter this period of growth is exactly that it's
communicating and articulating the agreed upon strategy for the highest level of the ecosystem
because when people aren't tapped into that then of course the things that any contributor or any builder does is going to seem confusing
or at odds or not right or what have you.
And so I think that's been our biggest areas of disconnect.
One other thing you pointed out too is can everyone still hear me?
I want to get an audio check.
Yep, you're still going.
You're good.
I can boot it off too many times.
The other thing you pointed out was like, hey, how do you know, sort of like do these people just get to control like what happens and what happens when things are at odds?
And what I would point out with the new treasury is that in many ways, this is the most power the community will have ever had.
And why do I say that? Well, number one, when the initial treasury and the funding was raised per the SEC qualified sale, we split that
into a bunch of tiny pieces, right? Foundation got, I think what was worth about $11 million
back then. And we've excited to share a report about this, but we've over seven or eight X to
that. And just in terms of what we've put into the community and different programmings and things. And, but what you have, what the sum total of that means is that
you have all of these different sort of treasuries around the ecosystem. And the foundation is just
one of many, but then there's a bunch of private ones too, right? And it's much harder for the
community to have visibility and hold folks accountable in those multiple private treasuries that were formed at inception.
On our side, we're the foundation, so we're very transparent.
You can look at every board deck meeting I've ever had.
You can look at every OKR my team has ever taken on on our website.
Not everyone is accountable or has to do that per the provisions in their treasury.
It's just us. By consolidating the treasury into one place, not only is the visibility and
accountability get easier because you don't have to look into what seven or eight people are doing,
you also have one place where if you're not happy, you can change the address where it's flowing to or stop the emissions or this or that.
And that's a new dynamic in our ecosystem.
And I'm pretty excited about that.
We've had entities formed early in days in the ecosystem that didn't work out.
And I think that's why we're pushing so strongly for let's have one place where we're all accountable to it.
It's an endowment that we're all sharing versus these separate pools that have proven very difficult to manage and to hold accountable in a way that you would expect for, you know, in the way that we do at the foundation.
So to sum that up, I think really the structure gives the community more power.
really the structure gives the community more power. And not only that, the capital, to your
point, I think allows us to be a lot more responsive and do a lot more things in parallel
so that you don't have that feeling that, oh, we're not doing that anymore. That's not important
because those things remain important. It's just, you really can't do everything at once,
especially on the budgets that we're working with. So I regret that it feels that way because
my team shows up every day
to try to make everybody happy
and to like, you know, sort of decrypt
the many different perspectives in the ecosystem
into one shared vision that we can all move forward under.
And I think generally we've done a good job
or else we wouldn't be in this position
to have this opportunity to take on and win Bitcoin layers.
But it's far from perfect.
Like I'm not gonna say your own claim it's perfect layers. But it's far from perfect. I'm not going
to say your own claim it's perfect either. So it's great feedback. I'd push back on the separate
allocations for the reasons I mentioned. I think that you lose a lot of the power of the SIP as
we've seen in practice, and that's why it's formed that way. But I think it's a good discussion to
continue to have. I'm going to jump in here too, and I'm going to
defend Mitchell and the foundation a bit, which I get to do because I've never actually worked for
the foundation or anything. And I think I've been pretty straightforward in talking through a lot of
the shortcomings and the challenges we've had. But I think the other thing to keep in mind here is,
one, as he said, the resources that the foundation has had compared to other ecosystems is tiny.
is that the foundation is bad compared to other ecosystems is time right like literally the entire
budget the 70 million dollars they've spent over their existence is less than the top the ecosystem
like the foundations of the top 10 20 ecosystems spend in a year right and number two like people
be like oh well we did all these things that the money went to that didn't work yeah because we've
been around for like eight years and are trying different things and are doing something new. Like, I guarantee you, whatever the new foundation,
new endowment and labs come to do, we'll also do things there as a community that don't work.
And someone will have been against those things and, you know, turn around and say like, oh,
well, we shouldn't have. It's like, yes, we are trying things. Some things will work. Some things will not work. We cannot guarantee success on it.
And that is something that we just have to be, I think, comfortable with for it.
And that is, again, why I come back to, I think, having these types of conversations
and making sure we're all aligned on the principles that we're trying to drive from and doing
is really important because everyone needs to feel
bought into that so that as we go and we try things and we have to make changes to it,
it works. But I think, like I said, we just we have to be really fair, I think, to the history
of things and what people have tried, understanding that the limitations of what could be worked on and of course the fact that you know
hindsight is always 20-20 in the things um but again this comes back to why like the number one
part of the update to the SIP that I'm working on is crafting it to be much more reflective
of hey this isn't just about DeFi right right? This is about the overall ecosystem, as Manib said.
This is about builders of absolutely every single size
and the vision of how it all comes together
in creating the overall Bitcoin economy.
Yeah, thank you for that, Alex.
And thank you for the defense of the foundation.
And I think in doing that, you just made the point
that I'm trying to make so
hard which is that yeah everything that foundation does or everything that this new entity does
is cannot work the 100% of the time right so whatever it prioritizes and does things so
if we have a separate entity that that does these experiments differently.
So we have that broader coverage of different experiments that can be done.
So you have higher chance of success, right?
So, and I think that was kind of the heart of the argument that I was trying to convince that,
okay, I was not kind of fully blaming foundation
in terms of like the disconnect and like, you know, things working or not working,
but because it's a limited resources and then, you know, it has many responsibilities. So it's not
always a hundred percent, a hundred percent of the things that they do, right? So there's gaps
and to cover these gaps is... I'm so sorry to interrupt you. We got to move on. I want to
touch on that really quickly
but we got more people waiting and some hard stuff so the last thing i'd say on that is
i totally understand the what you're trying to express yes and that is exactly what we've tried
over the last seven years and it is the opposite direction of the sip and that's why right so we've
had these separate treasuries
that were supposed to be allocated two separate things in the community. And what you lose a lot
of things, you lose a lot of efficiency, sharing of back offices. You also lose strategic alignment
between those entities. You also lose like easy accountability. And then last but not least,
you can easily, you can quickly and easily sort of, you divide your resources in a way where with the treasury,
you can't act as a unit and get economies of scale on your returns for your treasury.
Every other project that has a very large treasury has wielded it as a single instrument.
And because of that, they've been able to grow the treasury in ways that we could not with like
nine or 10 different separate ones.
So I think there's like a real risk of that proposal.
And,
you know,
a lot of the pain points that we have now that we're trying to address in
the SIP are directly downstream of trying to fragment things too much.
I would just point that out,
but it's like,
I'm not trying to shut down that discussion at all.
I'm just sharing with you.
This is why the SIP is the way that it is because we've lived the difficulties of having everything separate for long enough yes thank you thank
you this will be my last response this will be my last response now we got to move on to another
question guy like we got it we've had a lot of time on deck but feel free to dm me we can talk
some more yeah dm also i'll capture my thoughts and then um yeah sounds great thank you so thanks
for being here thank you all for being here.
Cool.
Hi, Roller.
What do you got?
Hello, hello.
Can you guys hear me?
Yep, we can.
Perfect.
So I just...
I tuned in kind of midway through
because I was getting some issues
and I think I heard
a lot of the stuff I needed to. One thing I just wanted to make sure if it was covered was a little
bit on this like the marketing and some part of like focusing on the ecosystem. So oftentimes
we enter an ecosystem and we're like, you know, where are the new things?
And for that, we need like builders and grants and liquidity.
So all that I'm, you know, happy for.
But basically, I just want to make sure we're aligned on making sure we know where like the KPIs for Stacks is.
And to me, that's like SBTC and the specific DeFi that everyone needs,
that SBTC needs, that its institutions need.
So how does the SIP specifically focus
on the marketing and the SBTC?
And particularly, is there metrics or KPIs we're looking at
for the marketing and the SBTC success through this?
Yeah, absolutely.
Can I be greedy on this one just for a minute? So for those of you that don't know, my previous life,
Alex is laughing at me. In my previous life, I was a marketer. And so the marketing stuff in the SIP
is the thing I am the most personally excited about. I think we specifically call out a Stacks CMO in there.
And yes, a lot of the metrics-driven stuff is exactly where we want to go with it.
I'm going to give a shout out to Grant and Captive, his company, and the Stacks Asia Foundation,
which recently kicked off an effort aimed at the first 21,000 BTC into SBTC. So the first 21,000 being minted.
These are the types of programs that even on small budgets, we've been able to start to make
meaningful progress. We've blown past the first three caps of SBTC, even with fewer integrations
than we'd like and more non-custodial options ahead.
And so I don't know, I'm just giving you a big plus one is like,
that's the type of metrics driven approach that we need to take.
I think in addition to that, there's also the non-metrics driven side of marketing that's really important.
In crypto, the attribution can be really tough with what actually drives volume.
But I'll mention a couple areas super quickly and and I'll kick it to Maniv, that Stacks hasn't participated in at all that most other projects do.
And I think if you're a trader, this would be particularly exciting to you, given that Stacks has been pretty successful in the top 30, top 50 project without doing many of the main marketing things that most people do. So one of those is
KOLs, right? We're hardly able to touch that space as the foundation. Again, that's one of those
areas where a separate entity was spun up that we thought maybe could focus on that. And for various
reasons, it didn't work out. The second part is the brand marketing play. And that I think feeds the token marketing side a lot as well.
Working on very, very small budgets there.
Between events and let's say like KOLs, it is not abnormal for a large ecosystem, like
a top 10 or top 20 ecosystem to be spending upwards of five to $8 million just a month.
And in some cases, you know, 10 million somewhere around there, just for like a flag trip event.
Stacks has managed to have those on without doing that, you know, without having that
level of spend.
But I think when you pair up both the metrics driven stuff you mentioned around SBTC, so
TVL user growth, user growth, all the mounts
minted in, transaction volume, those things with a bigger budget on the brand marketing
and the token marketing side, I'll call it, you get a sum total effect of like fax is
going to feel massive and you're going to see it in all the places where we're not showing
up right now.
And so I'll kick it to you, Muneeb, now, but like, yeah, very on board with Milestone.
I think Mitchell pretty much covered everything.
The only other thing I would point out is we shouldn't underestimate like tier one integrations
and how costly they are and how they have been a concern in the ecosystem for a while so if you
want to get tier one stable coins you want to get tier one bridges you want to get large market
makers and the community providers to come in and put in tens of millions or hundreds of millions
like in on the order books that actually caught like they're the very real cost and and those
costs are driven by the market even if you know stacks of big brand name and people want to work
with us they are actually excited about it they might give us better deals right cheaper
deals but they still cost like you know millions and millions of dollars and this just enables us
to do it the the correlated point there is also that a larger budget doesn't mean that our culture
is going to change or our ethos is going to change i think we're we have always been hitting above our class it's just that some things are going to become a little bit easier and we
will see much more rapid growth and much more rapid activity that we weren't able to uh to
afford before i i i unfortunately need to jump into an in-person meeting i'm just standing at
the door over there right now but one last thing i would say is, I think, like, let's just keep our eye on the ball.
This is about a grand vision, a bold move,
and hitting it out of the park with the upcoming roadmap.
And I think as a community, we can easily figure out
the low-level levels that we're having.
But, you know, how the community is coming together.
Thanks, Nene.
And I can stay longer.
I'll move some other calls on. Yeah, I've got another 20 minutes or so I can Thanks, man. And I can stay longer. I'll move some other calls on.
Yeah, I've got another 20 minutes or so I can run, too.
So, Hodel.
Hey, guys.
Yeah, appreciate it.
Appreciate all your guys' time.
I know you're very, very busy these days.
I just wanted to hop in and provide just a couple of high-level thoughts. I think with the roadmap coming out
so close to the SIP announcement
that the roadmap kind of discussion
and what all that's supposed to open up
has kind of been overshadowed by,
you know, what's going to empower
that roadmap with the SIP.
And I think they kind of are,
you know, they're brothers in a way.
You need one to have the other
or at least to empower the other uh or at
least to empower the other and i think some of the discussion and some of the critique is lost upon
that is that you do have uh you know quite a bit of what you guys were just touching on of of all
these growth points and um you know even if we do it you know exceed our wildest imaginations with
how much sbtc we have on chain you're going to need uh you're going to need something to pair it with you're going to need other peopleTC we have on chain, you're going to need something to pair it with. You're going to need other people. You're going to need marketing.
You're going to need people to get in the door. I'm all about looking upstream about how we can
grow that. And I just view this, there's a word going around the Bitcoin treasury space,
accretive. I think Stacks needs to kind of tap into that. This is, in my mind,
going to be very accretive to the Stacks ecosystem and its whole. And the other last point I was
going to make is kind of the decision point or the framing of how I look at all of this,
of whether this is a good idea or a bad idea, is that where we're at now, whether you're happy with where we are, you wish Stacks
was farther along or whatnot, at the end of the day, you could say, okay, well, is this a blame
of it took us this long? Stacks has been around a long time. They tried to do everything the
correct way. That costs money. That costs time for, you know, following regulations and compliance and all of this. And, and then, you
know, everyone being kind of decentralized and separated and dis, and disjointed in some ways.
And is that, you know, the fundamental thing, and this, this will help solve that, or, you know,
is it your trust in the leadership of the team? And so I really think that the faults of
what's been our problem and pain points in the past has really been the first one on that list
where we tried to do things the right way. Stacks has been around for a very long time.
Bitcoin L2s were just something that was a pie in the sky idea five years ago for a
lot of people. It's a category class now, and we really have a chance to be the prominent place
in this ecosystem. We have the chance to be the winner of the Bitcoin L2s. And I think that is
something to think about is that we now can structure ourselves to be the place to build on Bitcoin.
And we can outcompete all the rest of these folks.
And it would be through your guys' leadership.
And we need to check some balances on that leadership.
Humans are always valuable.
But I do think that the pain points is what caused any of the problems or anything.
I do have trust in you guys to lead the way.
And I'm happy to contribute and governance and all of that to try and help us steer the ship the correct way.
But I'm very, very positive on the future.
And I think we're headed in the right direction.
I'm glad we're swinging for the fences.
Awesome, man. I'm glad to hear it um yeah i totally agree by the way it's like we have either survived like we we went and we created a category and it'd be a damn shame if
we didn't go win it too and we had that opportunity is right in front of us so that
if that doesn't get you excited, I don't know what does. Awesome. Well, I know we're a bit over time.
I don't know if there's any last minute questions.
I'll say I'll throw just a couple things as we're wrapping up and like plugs for stuff.
I'll say I'll throw just a couple things as we're wrapping up and like plugs for stuff.
So as I mentioned, I'm working with Trip and Monkey on like a, you know, what I'm calling 31.1, right?
Like a pretty substantial revision of it, just trying to incorporate some of the language stuff we've talked about today, as well as some of the substantive changes.
So I want to ideally get that knocked out tonight and have it out on the
forum tomorrow at some point.
So keep an eye out for that.
And then we can kind of go from there on it and next steps and things.
I think there is another one of these scheduled at 3 PM Eastern next week.
I'll probably do another impromptu space on Thursday or Friday
after the new version
of the SIP is out, so
we can do another big, long
jam working session thing.
Keep an eye on the Twitters
for that, and I will share it. Although,
as Mitchell pointed out, maybe we have to go do that
somewhere else, since, my god,
this thing is non-functional.
Other than that yeah just look i appreciate all of the conversation that we've had so far please keep them coming
um and you know again just remember we are uh all listen working together on this and trying to get
um uh get to the same place and make stacks successful. So hit us in DMS.
If you got any more thoughts, if there's anything you didn't,
we're always happy to think answer questions or whatever. Mitchell,
any final words from you?
No, I think you hit it. Um, again, yeah, just gratitude. Um,
no surprise from this community at all. So thanks for having me. Um, the,
the, I will say like, look out this week.
I've got a couple pieces of content coming.
Some of them reflect the themes I covered here.
And I think if you take a few minutes to read each one, I think you'll find some value in them.
One is more on the personal side as a person who's been a contributor to this project for probably eight years.
and contributed to this project for probably eight years.
And then the other is more on the foundation side
and sharing some of the data and information
about programs that we've run
and trying to give the folks
who may be running this new entity
and in this endowment,
basically our commitment to helping them remain efficient,
transition things that the community wants to see,
start new things that the community wants to see, start new things that the
community wants to see, and just make sure that nothing breaks should we move forward with this
SIP and if anything, just pouring gasoline on the things that are working well. And so I highlight
some of the things that I think are important to maintain. And I was saying, I think I got cut off
the first time, but the relatively small batch of resources that we've worked with over the years, I think it's easy to look at that as a disadvantage.
And it's obviously something that we want to address.
And we're addressing that with SIPP.
However, I think it's also this cool crucible that's made the community really clever and creative.
And it's forced us to figure out how to be efficient and how to compete with projects that are orders of magnitude more resourced and so I think when you pair that
with our community and our our teams having a bigger treasury we're not going to lose that
soul of efficiency and scrappiness that makes stack special you're just going to be able to
double down on the things that are working.
And I think the space should watch out for us.
We're going to be a monster.
Just quick, before we wrap,
I'll be DMing Mitchell and Alex
with some additional thoughts
on the comments from the communities.
Thank you for doing this um have a
great day guys thanks everyone thanks everyone see you all next week Thank you.
