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Stacks SIP AMA
Recorded: June 10, 2025 Duration: 1:03:18Space Recording
Short Summary
The latest discussions around the Stacks Improvement Proposal (SIP) 31 reveal a strong focus on growth and innovation within the Stacks ecosystem, with strategic partnerships, community grants, and significant fundraising efforts paving the way for a vibrant future in the Bitcoin economy.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. What's up, guys?
How's it going?
Can you hear me?
Hello.
Alex Miller, the man.
What's going on?
Just, you know, hanging out, talking on spaces, writing documents,
having to charge my AirPods because they keep dying on me.
All the usual fun things.
Yep, just a normal Tuesday, isn't it?
Yep, just a normal Tuesday, isn't it?
All right, I think we're going to give it just a couple minutes for people to keep streaming in.
But I hope everyone's having an amazing Tuesday.
Very excited to be talking about the SIPP today and, you know, addressing everyone's questions.
And we'll jump right in in a few minutes.
Mitchell, we got you here?
I think so.
Yeah, I don't know why X likes to rug you in particular.
Who knows?
It could be the 50,000 tabs I have open.
It could be just bad luck.
Hey, guys.
What's up, Matt? How's it going?
Good, man.
It's another Tuesday.
Oh, yeah. Happy Tuesday.
All right.
Well, I think we have a quorum.
We could probably just jump right in.
So, GM, GM, everyone, welcome to today's space.
Today, we're going to be discussing the latest updates and changes to the Stacks Improvement Proposal, SIP 31, a game-changing proposal to fuel Stacks growth as the home of the Bitcoin economy. This week we'll be specifically discussing the latest changes to the SIP,
covering the latest draft, which is SIP 31.1. We're thrilled to host these regular sessions
to keep you all updated, share progress, and most importantly, hear feedback and answer your
questions.
The community's engagement across the Stacks ecosystem has been incredible,
and it's really bullish to see so many voices helping to shape this SIP.
So for the conversation today, we have another all-star panel. We have Muneeba Ali,
who's obviously the Stacks founder and CEO of Trust Machines. We have Alex Miller, hoping he'll rejoin a second here, the CEO of Hero. We have Mitchell Cuevas, interim executive director of the Stacks Foundation.
And we have a very special guest, Matt Zhang, founder of Hivemind, as well as myself, Lior
Shimron.
I'm the former head of growth at StackingDAO and an active member of the Stacks community. So there's been a lot of community feedback and the team has been super proactive listening
to community and integrating changes into the SIP, showing that the whole team is being
responsive to community feedback.
Do we have Alex up here?
Yeah, I mean, assuming it's working but i think
i'm here awesome yeah um so you know let's start with you maybe you can just uh jump in and discuss
at a high level what are some of the the recent changes that everyone should should know about
so yep over the last week made a bunch of changes based on conversations with the community. And I think also just, you know,
have been in continue to be in a lot of spaces and talking to folks about how
things work. So I think there's,
feels like there's been a lot of like alignment around those things.
A big one is obviously yesterday posted an update that we restructured how the
appointments for the treasury committee work and how those seats work.
Obviously, the treasury committee is one who ultimately oversees all of these allocations.
I think this also goes very hand-in-hand with what the process that Mitchell came up with
for the appointments committee and how folks are getting put onto there.
folks are getting put onto there um but the general idea there is that uh the all eight
of the nine seats now one of the seats is reserved for the um cio uh of the of the the chief investment
officer of the endowment all the other ones are community appointed seats and so uh basically a
list of nominees comes up and then those nominees for
those seats get voted on by a sip vote and assuming it passes um are appointed onto the committee and
with four-year terms and half coming up each two years the the reason for doing that way is
it lets that committee really develop a good way to work together with a lot of tenure on it, but still always has fresh blood coming on every two years.
So you have that really nice balance of both experience and fresh insight coming on to it.
I think so far seems like everyone's responses to that one have been pretty positive on it.
I answered a couple of questions in the thread on it but obviously
happy to chat through that more um my hope is that between kind of that and you know some of
the conversation today is to integrate all the changes uh that i had proposed last week along
with these um and then get like a roughly final draft out for folks to do a kind of final read through on by like tomorrow.
That's great. And maybe can you also touch on some of the other recent changes that you made
for the latest draft of the SIP? Yeah, so yeah, go ahead. Sure. Yeah. So we added the risk section to it. We totally we expanded and went a lot deeper on the reporting requirements.
So from the endowment, so folks always have a lot of clarity on what they have been doing through the year and what they're going to be doing upcoming on it.
We clarified the limitations on the endowment.
We added a section on burning tokens i
think that is one that i think is important just because it's a very good signal to everyone that
like yes we are looking to be very responsible uh with this and if the endowment grows really well
and we don't need all of the future tokens coming down um we will absolutely turn around and burn them.
We added the community grants program to it.
That'll be a dedicated part of it.
And then, you know, the most important thing was just one of the big pieces of feedback
early on was just that it was not clear whether this was meant to just like be about DeFi
or it's about everyone.
And, you know, the really strong message we wanted there was that, no, this is a set meant to grow the entire Stacks ecosystem.
Nobody's interested, I think, in having a DeFi-only ecosystem.
It's kind of the same boring thing of living in a company town.
Nobody really wants that.
You want a very vibrant ecosystem with a lot of different things going on.
And so just added a lot of language throughout to clarify that, no, this is in fact meant to apply to all builders.
Yeah, I think that's a great point. You know, like, clearly, if we want Stacks to be successful, we want to empower all different types of builders.
And, you know, obviously that we've been pushing for SBTC to be successful and SBTC I think, encourages a lot of DeFi activity.
But, you know, I think we also want to signal
that it's not just DeFi we want to bring to Stacks.
You know, we want to be supportive of meme coins,
NFTs, AI projects, gaming, you know,
and maybe even new applications
we never even thought of before.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so I think that it's great that we made that,
or that you made that explicit
in the new
version of the sip well not just me again there were a lot of folks in particular mitchell and
trippin monkey who were were instrumental in that updated draft on folks um and then of course just
all the feedback from the community and i think seeing how much everyone's engaged around that
um has been has been really really great i am simply the person who held the pen on the latest draft.
Awesome.
Yeah, maybe just to transition to – go ahead, Mitchell.
Yeah, no, I was just going to give – I was going to give a quick update as well.
just as well like the sessions that we held this morning were really great so i'll have more
Like, the sessions that we held this morning were really great.
information up about this on the forum like as soon as i can get off calls today but um we gathered
a bunch of the folks that you know really have like the strongest and most informed opinions about
how we should select some of these committees and like the mix and the representation that we want
to see and so today's workshop we were able to get pretty far.
We established like basically a baseline set of expectations for the appointments committee,
like any nominees we would want to meet these bars, like for their knowledge and activity
in the ecosystem.
And then, of course, we also looked into like, okay, what's the overall mix to make sure
that there's the right representation?
And on both fronts, we have a pretty good framework. You can call it like sort of a matrix that we can use to make decisions
and i'll be sharing a lot of those notes over the coming days and we'll likely have a
follow-up session on thursday so if that's of interest anyone or um you know in some cases
some of you have been nominated i'll be messaging the people who have been nominated um stay tuned
for that that'll go on the main who have been nominated. Stay tuned for
that. That'll go on the main Stacks calendar, and I'm sure that we'll share a link on all the usual
channels. But that's been great, and I just wanted to make sure I see some of the same folks who
joined that call here as well, and I wanted to give those folks a shout out. So that process is
moving right along. I think we got a really strong base, and our goal is by the end of the week to
have the list for the appointments committee to put right into the sit.
So yeah, thanks. Thanks all for joining that as well.
And if you missed it, ping me or look at the event and register for it.
There's more information on the forum. And like, like I said,
I'll post even more notes today. So thanks folks. Also, we should,
we should get to Matt. We have a very special guest here.
So I want to, I want to hear from him and let him introduce himself as well.
Yeah, maybe I can say a few words about Matt before we hand over the mic.
So for some of you who don't know Matt, he's a very active investor in the SAX ecosystem.
He's independently invested in several entities, including some applications as well,
and his fund actively holds STX.
So they raised like north of a billion dollar fund in 2022.
And given how active he is and how big of a stake he has
in the success of the ecosystem,
we thought it would be great to ask Matt to come in and chime in from more of an institutional
and master point of view.
So Matt, thanks.
Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time.
Of course.
Thanks for having me.
You guys can hear me.
Okay.
Cool.
Awesome.
Great to be here with everyone today. As Muneeb mentioned, we launched HiveMine Capital in early 2022.
Great to be here with everyone today.
And quite frankly, Stack is one of the first ecosystems where we have spent a lot of focus on and continue to do so. As of today, we're investors and supporters for various different
stacks projects, including Trust Machines, it's well known that we're one of the larger
investors there and many other projects. Hero is also one of them. And as Muni mentioned,
we also own a lot of Stax tokens
among different funds of ours.
Before I dive in more
into talking about the SIP 31.1,
just very quickly to say
that this by no means is financial advice.
And obviously my compliance officer reminded me I have to say that.
So I'm going to get this out up front.
But I really hope what I shared there, you know, number one,
we'll give you guys a bit more clarity how to think about, you know, as a stack holder perspective,
why I think this is transformative and supportive for the stack
ecosystem, and how together we could make these ecosystems bigger and stronger.
I got to know Maniv and Stacks from a very long time ago and continue to support
ecosystem in the last three and a half years, where there's a lot of difficult times, I would say,
for the broader ecosystem as well as the stack in particular.
I think there are a few things that happens very, very quickly.
Since Trump's administration, I would say that the regulatory
has completely changed, and it changed in the way that probably people
are underappreciating what that means. You know, you guys all saw late last year, ICC
dropped these things against the stacks, which, you know, obviously is a very positive development.
I think trying to build an environment in the last cycle
where you know the regulators have this very hostile attitude towards you
is always very, very hard, right?
Trying to go and try to propel an emerging asset class
is already very hard things.
And on top of that, if you know regulators on your side, it's already very hard things. And on top of that, if you know regulars on your side,
it's even harder. For that reason, when Muneeb started Stacks, when initially I heard a pitch,
I very much right away bought into the vision about there needs to be a large programmable
layer on the largest asset class, which is largely dormant, which is BTC.
That thesis hasn't changed right today bdc is
trading 10 times higher than first time when even i talk about this so that's 10 times bigger
dormant asset for the stacks community to build on top so that vision has only become bigger and
clearer over time what i think has changed though is in the last cycle, once Stack was growing,
it was growing against all odds. So there are things I think Stack needs to do, and I'll get
to why it's relevant for this SIG31 proposal, that actually making sure you can grow in a way that
is still in a regulatory compliance way. And when I say regulatory compliance, it's actually very,
very hard because there's not much room
the regulator has left for us
to sort of like navigate it through.
I think that has complete change today, right?
So I think this gives us a good opportunity
to rethink about, okay,
if we're going to set up stacks
from the get-go today,
knowing US is where all of the
sort of like talents and capital coming back and still
the leader of the space how do we making sure not only we occupy sort of that the community is here
but also go to asia where there's a lot of stacks and bdc ogs and the rest of the world is the legacy
setup because we needed to tweak it to suit regulatory compliance
at the time still the right setup today and if it's not what's the right setup so i would say
this right obviously know a lot of the folks on the call alex you know gina money but i am a
you know fond investor you know managing billions of dollar capital. And my fiduciary duty is to our
investors. So, you know, I would say that, you know, I'm going to vote as a stack active holder
only in the best interest and fiduciary duty about what I think is the right investment for a fund.
And not just because I love Alex and Muni, which I do. So, you know, Muni has been talking to me about this proposal and Alex too.
And I would look at this from a very, you know, rational perspective to say, okay,
if there's higher emission being proposed, if there's a new entity being set up,
you know, why should we do this?
And why we think in the medium to long run
this actually propel the growth of the community so the pie become bigger. The reason why it is
because I think Stacks, despite all of the good things going on, technology side, technical side
in particular, suffers a lot from not having a very cohesive and centralized
advocator, right?
Like I think that communities has been one of the most
resilient I've seen.
Some of the folks here, I saw them in 2021,
and not like many other layer one or layer twos
where after the grants program runs out,
they move to a different chain just to milk
the new incentive program.
The people here constantly building because they all love the vision.
We have these people to protect.
And the issue is this very resilience community is very decentralized.
The way the program was designed, the way that the labs and the foundations, when it
was even called block stacks, needs to do certain ways to get away with regulatory coverage means that we don't really have a central foundation or government that be able to really managing a meaningful capital and propel the community to go in a very efficient and fast way.
We rely purely on a decentralized way for everybody to do their own part,
which a lot of people has done.
But I think that's proven is not enough.
I think trying to do what other successful protocols are doing,
like so on and other, we need to learn why they're doing better.
And I think having a strong advocate,
having capital behind it, it's just extremely important. So when we need to flag this idea
with me, and obviously we have constant dialogues, you know, given we're big stakeholders,
you know, sort of early this year, I asked all the details, like why now, right? How much? Where is it going to come from?
Why the communities will see this as a positive thing?
And I think a lot of the people on this podcast knows this better than I do, probably more crypto native than I do, is I think in the end, the total token supply sometimes it's not really a scientific thing in the sense that just because your token is
having more supply in quantities than others means your token will be more or less valuable.
It's about how you structure the whole program together. How do you continue to get the value
back to the ecosystem? Where do you spend them? What's the most effective way to do so?
So if I would have, so it's long to come back and say,
like, I think regulatory regime has changed so much.
We need really to take these opportunities
with all of the new stacks roadmap,
the Satoshi upgrades,
and really trying to get ourselves on the front foot.
If the cycle plays out the way it is,
starting from BTC,
it's going to come to to alternatives i think our job is
trying to make stacks get back to the top 20 tokens to start with and i don't think we can
have to get there if we don't have a body that can strategically directing the capitals into the part
of ecosystem needs the most so you know only, speaking from my own behalf as a big
tax holder, I couldn't care more or less if the admission is 3% or 5%, some other comparable
layer ones is even doing much, much higher. I think it's about why you're doing it and where
you're deploying the capitals and who do you put in charge. So as long as the committee have a say
in the governance, as long as we have the right leaders there,
as long as we have a very clear deviation
about what that's going to interacting with,
you know, sort of the other part of the big player ecosystem
like Trust Machines and Heroes and others,
you know, personally, I'm very much in favor.
And I think this is actually very needed and timely.
So I'm going to pause there and let Muneev and others to pick up this.
Matt, thank you so much.
I feel like given how deep you are in the ecosystem and how familiar you are with all of the different moving parts,
I think hearing sort of like your perspective, i i fully understand that you know we we
we can be friends but but in the end you're managing your billion dollar fund right and
your your fiduciary duty is to your investors so i think giving the community a sense of like how
you're thinking about it i think it's actually pretty pretty valuable and thanks thanks thanks
so much for sharing maybe we will let you we will let some people ask you some questions given we want it to be
more community driven as well.
If you could stick around a little bit longer,
I think there might be some people who want to ask questions.
But from my side, I feel like you've just basically covered so much of the material.
I don't have direct questions right now.
Yeah, maybe we can get, if folks have questions in the audience
that wanna ask Matt or anyone else here some questions,
if you can start requesting access
so that we can get those firing, that'd be great.
Yeah, I mean, one question from me, Matt.
So you touched on so many interesting things,
and I'm just curious, like, you know,
obviously you're a steward of a big fund,
and you obviously see best practices
across many different ecosystems.
So, like, in your mind,
what are some of the best practices
that Stacks can take from some of those other ecosystems
that have proven to be successful.
I think there's different parts to answer that question.
There is something I think what is essential to do.
And also I think it's important to know what we're not good at and what we should not do.
I think a couple of common mistakes, a lot of the protocols out there
has made in the last cycle, not even one cycle, probably multiple cycles that
we have to keep reminding ourselves because the cryptocurrency is a side product of building
blockchain successful protocols. You're always going to look at the screen price 24-7 and those prices are sometimes exaggerated by the
volatility so much that actually unfortunately supposed to be a output of your decision making
but in the end become the input right a lot of the foundations out there that structures their budget, marketing expense, ground programs,
based purely on what their token was trading yesterday,
and not about where they think the identity and the DNA of their protocol is about,
who they try to cater to, and where is enduring value value and structure a sustainable way.
Which is, again, why when Muneeb told me about this new SIP protocols, we talk a lot deeper
about where are you going to deploy them?
How are you going to different that with trust machines and here's other entities?
Why is this significant?
How to do that?
How to link all of the communities globally under one, so people know clearly which function
to go to what. I think there's a lot of protocols out there that's better than the others. I think
it's really no one answer fits all here. Unfortunately, you think about some of the
recent successful launches, right, Hyperliquid. I mean, they have a very, very clear,
sort of like, you know, as one example, have a very, clear sort of like you know as one example i have
a very very clear go-to-market strategy they're building a super app and their chain just attached
to that and they build a over time organically around a super app which gives them the identity
for who they are in terms of photo economics like the buyback to burning every single day is
transparent you know some people may like, other people does not like it,
but at least there's something you know and you can see
and there's a very, very clear and transparent framework.
Again, I think every protocol is different.
They're trying to do different types of things.
I think given Stacks is trying to unlocking
the dormant capital of Bitcoin, I think we have to structure our vision and the go-to-market strategy, product market fit, the foundation set up all around what's the best way to do that.
And that's going to be a very different go-to-market strategy than Solana or layer two for Ethereum or many other shiny new layer ones.
So in the end, I think right now we need a program in the middle that are in charge,
despite how a lot of community input, but be able to deploy capital strategically.
You know, if we want to bring in a large, you know, Bitcoin OGs into the ecosystems,
large, you know, Bitcoin OGs into the ecosystems, a large asset management firm, institutional
investors, we need the tooling to know that their capital stands behind it to make decisions
quick, right?
Like, you know, obviously coming from traditional finance background myself and working for
Citigroup, you know, for 15, 16 years.
If one day I want to set up the meeting for Alex and Muneeb to talk to Citi to do certain
things, you know, we can't circlingb to talk to Citi to do certain things,
you know, we can't circling back to community, ask everybody to chip in one stack, so make that program happen. We need to know there is a centralized entities that be able to fund a
certain sort of growth initiative on behalf of all of us, right? So again, it's a long way to
answer the questions. But again, I think as long as we're thoughtfully planning how to spend the capitals,
how to drive the value back, I think there's many different ways to design the optimal book.
But I think one thing you can't change.
The content is how good your protocol technically is, which I think we have. And the other thing is, I think you can't really change BTC
as this large asset class and the fact it's been dormant.
Even we're just unlocking 5%, 10% of that asset class.
It's going to already make Stag's top 10 of the ecosystem.
So I think we should just break that long-term vision down into different steps.
And I think the first step is just get our act together, knowing the regulatory has changed
so much, set up the right entity structure that we have a few key ecosystem, you know,
partners that can interact with each other.
So if somebody want to build a new protocol, a new DeFi in Stacks, they clearly
know, should they go to Hero for certain help? Should they go to Stacks Labs Foundation for
certain help? Should they go to TrustMachines for certain help? That is just like critical
clear. Today, I don't think, with due respect, I know the ecosystem very well. It's not very
clear. What is clear is today I can go to many people in the ecosystem, everybody voluntarily helping me, but that's not enough, right? Because we need something which is
can drive this a little bit faster.
Yeah, some great points. I think maybe that dovetails to a question I have for Alex Miller.
You know, I think a lot of this is also gonna come about
after the SIP is hopefully passed.
And in terms of the actual execution
of the grants program and deciding like the process
around how the treasury committee will determine
where funds will flow and what initiatives to fund.
But yeah, I'm curious, Alex, maybe you can touch on some of that.
Yeah.
So I think, you know, the first thing to keep in mind, right, is one of the big goals with
the treasury committee and, you know, having this like good cross section of people who
have exposure and are working with the, you know, all the different parts of the Stacks ecosystem is because that's going to have to evolve over time, right? The
where grants and deployments of money go depends on what the ecosystem's, you know, strategy is and
what the overall reality, you know, of the larger crypto world is, right? So like right now,
obviously, we have like all those community
driven processes to try and figure out um what the you know to set the roadmap and um uh to set
the roadmap and get everything done um sorry give me one sec um so you know that's where kind of if
you look at the um at the sip it lays out especially what like the initial budget allocation is expected to be based on all of those things right now.
And that'll evolve then over time.
When it comes to like grants and deployments, the main thing is, you know, a lot of this will get deployed via the operational entity who will run plenty of like targeted grants programs again based on like
what a lot of those core initiatives are and then on top of that you'll also have like for larger
and smaller and larger and you know things that might be outside that totally explicit focus you'll
also have the community grants program that we added in, where anyone can basically say, hey, I want to run this program for the community. I want to
build this thing that I think is good for the staff's community overall. Here's how it will
work. Here's how much money I need for it. Here's how we're going to execute on it. And then those
will also then get funded directly by the endowment. And, you know, again, I was talking
about this on a space last Friday.
Those can be large or small, right?
One of the things I'm actually hoping on it
is that the people come up
with their own like sub grant programs out of this, right?
Someone who really wants to bring a bunch of NFT artists
and help grow the NFT ecosystem on stacks,
can request an allocation to do exactly that and to fund artists. And obviously, the more you're asking for, the more that you need to have a clearly thought through plan
and be able to demonstrate past impact and things like that and how you're going to measure the success of it.
But not everything should have to go through the Treasury Committee directly right not every single handout to each single person it
should be that uh i think that's actually one of the ways you really take advantage of a
decentralized ecosystem is empower lots of people to create their own programs they're having impact
yeah plus one alex i think like to give hero a big shout out, Hiro Gamer, like,
dGrants is a great example of this. And I know it's like, I think we're quick to forget,
but like, we have, you know, very open grants program for the history of the project where
a lot of the builders and projects that you see in the ecosystem were downstream of that.
We paused for a lot of focus on Nakamoto and SBTC, and I've mentioned that before. But
the thing that's exciting about the SIP for me related to grants is just that, that we can do,
we can have more grant programs in parallel that serve different purposes. And the thing that is also nice about that is on the execution or operational front of that. You know, you always
run into if you have one single program that tries to serve
all kinds, you end up with like this pretty complex frameworks, you know, you have to find
a committee that can manage to kind of make a decision like that, where and that's pretty tough,
right? And then there's the whole accountability part of it. So being able to, like, empower
groups that are kind of specialized in a given area of the community to
kind of do that work, hold themselves accountable, I think is really powerful. And that's just like
an option that we'll have with the larger endowment that we haven't had so far. So I think that's,
that's pretty cool. And like, I think D grants is a, is a model that we can learn a lot from.
Yeah. There's one, one thing that I feel like Matt said that I just
want to reemphasize that really clicked with me is like when he was talking about how not only that
the vision, the original vision is still there and the opportunity is still there, but it's kind of
like 10x bigger now. And I think that both says that we need a bolder strategy and more resources to be able to run hard at it.
So it's not just that the quote unquote competition is bigger and they're able to do these things and we are not because, you know, historically we just never had a large treasury or didn't have the structure.
But I think it's also the size of the opportunity has become much, much bigger.
And we need to realize that and react accordingly.
And I think this SIP is basically our answer to that.
Yeah, that's a good point.
And my own research, as I was seeing,
some of the leading ecosystems that were up against, you know,
in terms of our competition, you know, they raised so much more money than Stax has historically.
You know, I was looking at just as one example for Solana, they raised from what I saw over
900 million dollars across their lifetime. And they also reserved, I believe it's 40%
And they also reserved, I believe it's 40% of their supply at the point of TGE for a community reserve.
So, you know, that's a massive amount of funds, you know, massive amount of tokens that they're using to jumpstart and bootstrap their growth.
So, you know, I think that it just is incumbent upon, you know, stacks to learn from those other ecosystems, see what's worked, see what hasn't worked, and just understand that, yeah, you need more funding in order to be successful and to really go up against the big boys.
pick a ethereum l2 uh let's say arbitrum or something i think they have something like
35 to 40 percent of their supply sitting in a treasury uh that they deploy right and those
numbers are totally fine there and i think given how decentralized uh stacks is or historically
has been uh some of these proposals are pretty small compared to these other projects out there.
And I think that's also because we want to keep our DNA of deploying capital efficiently.
It's not that suddenly people are going to start throwing money at everything.
That doesn't buy you much and doesn't take you far.
I think it's about having a clear vision, clear direction, clear strategy,
but then actually having the resources to be able to execute.
Like small things like, hey, we want a tier one bridge or a tier one stablecoin.
Well, you can negotiate down the partnership price,
but in the end, you need at least the bare minimum money to be able to pay for it.
So I think, yes, the competition can still have larger treasuries,
So I think, yes, the competition can still have larger treasuries,
but I think this strikes a good balance of giving you enough
so that you don't feel resource constrained
as how historically we have been,
but also not like, hey, here's 40% of the token supply
or 50% of the supply and go crazy.
I think we want to maintain that ethos of always hitting above our weight class and being very
thoughtful about how our capital is spent.
Yeah, perhaps we should switch over to some questions from the community. I don't know if
folks have requested to speak, but we'd love to have you up here to ask whatever's on your mind.
Yeah, but I guess, yeah, until we get some folks up here to ask questions, you know, I just maybe just want an open question for everyone here.
You know, what is everyone's kind of, how do you feel now in terms of the overall sentiment towards the SIP and how everyone's feedback has been integrated?
You know, I feel like, you know, what is something that maybe we can highlight in terms of how this process has been
unfolding you know like what what what can we what can we learn from this process and you know what
what in particular do you think uh the community has kind of brought to our attention that we've
been responsive to maybe i'll take that over to all right and michael before you start real quick
i unfortunately have to jump guys okay uh It's great hanging out with you.
You guys have my Twitter account, so feel free to DM me or, you know, we can chat more.
And this is to everyone.
And then final thing, go vote.
You know, we need everybody to get involved, get behind this.
I think we're in an unprecedented time.
I think there's so much to be done.
And that's the guy behind the leadership here.
And hopefully we'll be able to make this protocol work and put some sizable, meaningful capitals and drive something on the front foot.
I'm personally very excited and supportive of this and would love to see as many of you guys vote as possible.
So I appreciate this time and invite here and looking forward to hanging out with many
of you guys.
Thanks so much, man.
Yeah, Lior, I can go back to your question.
I think that the most fun part, I guess, is for me, when when I think about, Hey, what, how far has the SIP come from when it first came out?
It's just been like the ability to add fidelity to a lot of the places. Like, right.
Like I think we're all very aware that when the SIP was dropped is in a draft format.
And there's like a lot of things we needed to figure out and discuss.
And there's always that magic of like, you don't want to put a SIP out there that's totally half baked, but you also don't want to put a SIP out that't seem like there's like a lot of good and thoughtful things in it, right? And so the community has
been super helpful as, you know, has many contributors and so forth in helping to fill
in a lot of those details that, you know, that we're either placeholders or like the appointments
committee thing is a great example, right? It's like we knew we needed to figure out some way to
manage the community representation part. And I think we've, you know, through various discussions and workshops and things,
we're solving for that as a group. So that's been the best part for me. And then like zooming out
overall vibes, I think, I think that, you know, pretty early on, like even within the first
couple of days, like generally the things I was hearing, and i was on the ground in vegas too so
maybe that's part of it but there was always like the big picture excitement about this opportunity
and like the you know validation for like the need and like you know we all have needs that i think
tip 31 addresses um and then it was really just a matter of overcoming okay like what are the areas
i'm unsure about um what are the areas where we want to add protections and stuff? And that's really been the last two weeks. You know, I think there's always cases where people are like more, okay, like, I get it, I get why we need to do this.
As long as we're not treating token supply changes like willy nilly, which, you know,
no one is here to do. I get that there's this opportunity for growth and that like,
hey, to your point earlier, Lior, you know, stacks didn't raise that much. And like the
opportunity in front of us has only gotten bigger and bigger. And so I just see a lot of excitement for that. And as we sort of fine tune these details,
like I am pretty confident about the SIP overall
from my perspective,
but yeah, I'd love to hear from other folks as well.
Maybe I can quickly chime in.
So I think I took a more passive approach to this. Like I think other people sort of like wrote this up and they were more active and having discussions. And I honestly like enjoyed the fact that the community was so strong and they jumped in everywhere and took charge and gave feedback on a lot of good things and and sort of like came together
like even even in the workshop call this morning right like i was i was sort of like sitting in the
back listening and i think that's honestly a great place for me to be right now right like like it's
like community is driving itself lots of builders are jumping in lots of different areas of the
ecosystem are jumping in and they're like hey we need to be represented too and we need this and we need that.
And they're sort of like negotiating with each other and coming to a that, hey, here's what I think should happen.
Maybe, you know, things will move a little faster maybe,
but then I don't think everybody would feel that much buy-in.
So I think by being more passive
and letting people sort of like drive this,
we're probably reaching a much better outcome this way.
And, you know, i've enjoyed the process
yeah i agree i think we found a pretty good balance in terms of like moving things along pretty expeditiously but at the same time incorporating a lot of community feedback
and you know having these open twitter spaces having the open calls um you know, having these open Twitter spaces, having the open calls, you know, just getting
community feedback whenever we can and try to incorporate that into the SIP to, you know,
to your point, we need to get as many people's, I guess, not just their support, but also just
their voices included as well, you know, all these different constituencies. So, you know,
I think it's kudos to all of you guys for shepherding this process
and making sure that everyone's voice has been heard
because we do really want to balance that
of like making this be as kind of like expansive as possible.
But at the same time, like we can't drag our feet,
you know, like we still have to ship.
We still have to move things along.
Like, you know, there's a massive vision ahead of us for Stacks. We still have to ship, we still have to move things along.
There's a massive vision ahead of us for Stacks.
So we need to be able to move quickly and be efficient, but at the same time incorporate
as many people's voices as we can. I think we're, I'm not sure if there's any questions for the audience right now, but
maybe we can just move to final comments, anything to leave the audience with.
Maybe Alex, you want to go ahead?
Yeah. audience with um maybe alex you want to go ahead yeah um i just say like i said thanks as always
to everyone who's participated in the process so far feeling pretty good about where things are
i will work on that kind of like what i think is pretty close to the final update and get that out
either tonight or tomorrow morning um for folks to take a look at. And so in the meantime, if you've got any thoughts or anything,
like shoot me a DM.
I'm happy to talk through any of those.
And then, yeah, excited to see what we all do together with it.
Yeah, I'll give a plug if that's okay, Lior.
So as I mentioned, we held an initial workshop this morning.
A couple more on the way.
We're really working through the committee stuff.
So, I want to make sure everyone's aware of that, that the sort of process is written
up on the forum.
Today, what I'll be doing is taking all the notes from that first session and commenting
in them in on the forum so everyone can kind of see what was discussed and like where we've
landed on some of the requirements and like representation mix there and then i'll also be publishing the second
session for i believe we'll probably be able to do thursday but i'll do two sessions i'll do one
super early and one super late so you know people can join whatever one is most convenient for them
and that'll be where we get into discussing like more of the
specific appointment committee nominations and so forth. So look out for that on the main stacks
calendar later today. I'll get those links out and of course on the forum and all that. So if
anyone wants to join, we'd love to have you. There's a little prep work, you know, we're kind
of making sure that there's like a barrier to, not a barrier rather, but like a bar, you know, for having like an educated conversation about it.
So I'll send you the prep materials if you're interested and we'll go from there.
I'd also say like, you know, little alpha here maybe, but from all the conversations I've had and the way that these workshops are shaking out, I think that we're probably on track.
You know, there's some CAD portions still to do in the bigger picture for the SIP. Uh, here are gamers coordinating all of that.
And I think like between the workshops I'm running and the cab sessions, like we're probably more
than, you know, reasonable to say, we'll have a lot of that wrapped up, you know, this week and
early next. Um, I'd love to be able to publish the voting timeline next
Tuesday or Wednesday, then starting the next week and running for at least a couple of
weeks. So that's sort of the tentative timeline that we're working with. But of course, if
anything comes up or we want to have further discussions or we get slowed down somewhere,
we've still got some buffer. So not not ready to release like hard dates yet but just
figured i'd share that's sort of how sip resident hero and and like a lot of the community members
on these calls have been thinking about the timelines so yeah by the way real quick i'm
i'm hearing that they're like getting dms that there are a bunch of hands up but i think oh maybe that no one cool can actually see them so apologies guys we'll see
if that can get figured out um but you're not even feeling for me as like unmuted right now
so maybe there's some spaces glitches then i see tripping Tripp. Yeah, that was the main thing I jumped up to say.
I must have had an opening where I could come up.
But yeah, I know Resh is down in the crowd and trying to come up.
And then Binta had a question also.
But I don't know if anybody can pull them up.
I'm going to say if anyone just drop your questions and DM to me and I will repeat them.
All right.
So there was a question of when's the vote going to take place
mitchell you just i think covered that uh pretty well yeah is there a dedicated smart
i think feeling it out right i think it's sort of uh we'll kind of feel that out but um yeah i
think probably the week of the 24th makes a lot of sense, given where we're at right now. Yeah. And is there a dedicated smart contract for the SIP 31 vote?
Don't really understand the question.
Like, we'll do the vote as we usually do on stx.eco.
So people will be able to cast their vote as they usually do for sips so
yeah i think uh to post to the question there sips it's not a smart contract that does the
vote it's just sending a you know dust transaction to an address to a yes address or a no address
and then uh you know a script basically indexes over and counts it all up but that way
anyone can just go and look at
which addresses voted for
which thing. Yep.
It's meant to be super accessible and easy so
we'll keep that.
I think
so those were I think.
So those were.
That was XYZero's question.
OK, here we go from the canvas.
Any plans for content creators and incentives like airdrops from utility products and platforms we use on stacks just like it's done in other ecosystems.
Um, I'd say, well, Mitchell, I know you love talking about
Yeah, yeah.
Art projects and things.
Any thoughts there?
Yeah, I think like we covered earlier, right?
Like, I think that the best case for those is to have their own dedicated programs and
people running those, um, you. Typically, like in other ecosystems,
it's not like the Solana Foundation does a lot of direct drops to people.
It's usually like the applications or other sort of mini efforts
and organizations within Solana that have a specific mandate or something.
I've mentioned before, I'd love to bring back the Mintry
and other programming that's
dedicated toward you know the creative side of the community that's just where my my personal
interest lies um but that's that's really the whole idea with like the community fund and like
you know additional language you've added around the splitting up of grants into more categories
so i yeah that's i would say yes but aren't like, I can't tell you a specific
plan today about it. Right. That's exactly what I was gonna say. It's like, look, even if we have
100 full-time people between the endowment and labs, that's not enough to have like true experts
in every single different area. And that's exactly what the gain you get from like embracing a
decentralized ecosystem like this. And so exactly what I was saying earlier when I was talking about community
grants, when I said, Hey, if you want to,
if you have an idea for a program like that, like absolutely, you should just say,
Hey, give me 50 or a hundred, however much money it takes to execute on it.
Here's the plan.
Um, and like, I would love to see 10 or 20 different
people running programs like that, seeing what works and experimenting on it and embracing.
Because, again, just like you're never going to be able to hire
enough people to build enough expertise
and just like true organic presence
in all these different communities
to do it as well as enabling the community in it.
Yeah.
And for what it's worth, my goal, and I've said this on previous spaces, my goal is to
give everything that we've built over the years from committee structures to software,
to the processes with GitHub and all that, and vendors and everything that we use to
make KYC and payments easy.
I'm very excited to give as much or as little of that to the endowments team as they want
so that we can get these grants, like the front door for grants being open within the
first 30 days of the org is like a personal goal of mine.
Obviously I'll have to make sure all the lawyers are happy with that.
But in terms of the ability to actually execute on it and get those initial batches out, I
don't see why not.
Like we've, you know, we've done this before and now we're just trying to do it bigger and better. So
that's, that's my mindset in case that gets people excited because I want to be able to
get money into everyone's hands is basically as fast as humanly possible.
Yep. All right. That's some good, tough questions from Rush. Current 80 million annual burn requires impossible price appreciation. What's the mitigation plans for this? Well, number one, I would dispute the premise there that it requires an impossible price appreciation. It very much does not. We couldn't have that stay at $1 or $1 token or $1 token and do that indefinitely, obviously.
that like stay at one dollar token or sub dollar token and do that indefinitely obviously um but
even if you're back at the all-time high for stacks let alone moving above that um it would
not be an issue um i think other than that too though yes absolutely the budget for the foundation
again this is the reason why some of the questions people have asked is like okay
well what's exactly uh you know the budget for the foundation for this, you know, three years from now?
It's like, well, one of the key things is it does depend on how it's gone.
But this is the entire reason that like the lead hire of the endowment is a chief investment
officer.
It is someone who will manage to that.
And the reason, you know, one of the key jobs of the Treasury Committee is saying, what
is a responsible level of spending right now for what we're trying to achieve, for what the market looks like, for how ityear basis alongside the endowment to make sure that it's sustainable.
Yeah, I want to chime in on this a little bit because I get these questions as well.
So I think, I feel like this entire idea that new tokens are floating on the market with the downward price pressure is sort of like,
is not true, right?
Because the way you look at it,
there are some STX that would be used for on-chain liquidity.
That's actually good for the applications,
because all of these applications are asking for liquidity.
And by providing liquidity, you're not actually selling tokens, you're just doing work on chain and helping the applications grow. That's a pretty large category of it. the new structure will likely go to very sophisticated investors like Matt from
Hypevine and others to sell tokens on very long lockup schedules. And Stacks right now has no
lockups. 100% of the supply is liquid. So if less than 1% of the supply ends up behind a lockup,
less than 1% of the supply ends up behind a lockup.
That's like a nothing burger.
Like projects have 40%, 50% supplies behind lockups.
We're talking about a tiny amount of the total supply
that's behind a lockup that slowly gets released
much further down the road, right?
So in the short term, it's almost like borrowing money, right?
Like you borrow the dollars against the locked up tokens
and you use them for growth and the ecosystem is actually
in a much more sustainable, better place if you do the job right.
So whenever those small lockups actually come to the market,
they're like a nothing burger in the sense of like how much liquidity
much liquidity is actually being released on a monthly basis down the road.
is actually being released on a monthly basis down the road.
Yeah, I'll give a quick plug to Nomics here as well.
It was like a third party that kind of specializes in doing these kind of projections that we
used in the SIP.
So for anyone who wants to dive deeper in there, Lior also did a great post on some of
the tokenomics mechanics and all of that.
So both of those are great resources
for understanding that more deeply, if you like.
All right.
I see also, I think,
how many builders is SDX Foundation aiming to onboard
over the next 36 months?
I think that's a great question.
If you look at the size of like competing
users i want to say that ethereum is at like 22 000 active developers we're in the hundreds
i'd like to see us probably at least 10x the active builders number over the next 24 months
is the number that I've been working on
in my head. And like, I think the other thing there is that one of the other big shifts I
think you'll see us be able to pull as like we pull in, you know, especially starting about 12
months from now, once you build some of this flywheel, you bring in more and more of the
investors, get additional like incubator programs spun up is making it a lot
more possible or making it a lot easier for full-time builders in the ecosystem i don't want
only full-time devs in it right again you want the whole mix but i think being able to provide
better resources and platform for full-time people and so people can like quit their jobs and go all
in on what they're doing here
would be a really good sign of growth.
So yeah, rough back to the napkin is
I'd love to 10X it in 24 months.
I give a plus one to that, Alex.
Like we're actually doing great as an ecosystem
on sort of the top of funnel, if you will,
or like the front door for developers.
Like you've seen the electric capital report,
we're number seven,
and that's with like a lot fewer resources. And so I think like naturally, you know, having more resources
to put into programs that are already working, you're going to see a jump there. But the biggest
challenge that I think we've seen with like more, let's call it more builders that are further down,
you know, their journey toward like full companies and things is that it's a little bit more
difficult to raise money in stacks for various reasons. And one of the big reasons is, as we've,
you know, learned from many of the protocols directly, is there's some of these ecosystem
level things like liquidity and user incentives and those kinds of things that we don't operate,
we haven't operated that way in the past, where that's just sort of at the table.
With CIP 31, you're able to do that.
So all of a sudden, every single startup in Stacks becomes a lot more investable because of it.
And I think that'll help to free up, like to Alex's point, a lot more places where people can plug in and be full-time builders.
And there's a lot of great talent coming
because Code for Stacks is working great.
We have Stacks Ascend.
These programs have very curious, very smart people
who are cutting their teeth on the technology right now
that will be ready to enter the Stacks workforce.
So, yeah, plus one, Alex.
Yeah.
All right, that is all the questions I see in my dms currently if you have any others
please feel free to shoot me one um i think we were working our way through kind of final
thoughts from other folks leo or manib did you guys have any no i think um i would highly
encourage people to go and vote whenever the voting starts. I think this is a very important step and showing strong support and having just large turnout is just a very, very healthy thing. So I think whatever your feelings are, I think one thing you should really do is go out and actually express yourself with the on-chain vote.
go out and actually express yourself with the on-chain vote yeah i'll say it's very common
that like on-sit votes we only get you know 500 600 wallets voting i think the tops was maybe a
thousand unique wallets voting and you know 120 million stx across those you know i'd love to see
at least double that both you know both in terms of number of unique wallets and you know, I'd love to see at least double that both, you know, both in terms of number of unique
wallets and, you know, total holdings represented in it. I think this is probably the most important
SIP in the history of the ecosystem, certainly, you know, in the recent memory of the last couple
of years and will be in the next over the next few years. So I think the more we can get people
registering their views on it and, you know, I am obviously very unabashedly in support of this SIP, but even if people aren't in support of it, it's important to get the community's feelings reflected on it.
And I think the more people that vote for it, the better.
Awesome. Yeah, I think we can wrap this one up yeah i have not seen more dms from folks so i think we
got all the questions all right thanks everyone really appreciate it thanks everyone thank you
see you all soon. Thank you.
