getting into our stake wars today
well they're excited and waiting for one more minute for Dennis to join
I think Dennis is already has already joined
hello everyone thank you all so much for being here I wanted to make sure I gave everybody
enough time to join we have some amazing speakers up here today today's Twitter space is all
about the most recent initiative you've all probably seen stake wars for attack of transactions
super exciting I'm gonna go ahead and hand things over to the three speakers we have here today to
introduce themselves and we'll get right into it thank you Marcus everyone I'm really a co-founder
of near and excited to talk about stake wars and dive in Liz Bowen and Dennis
Aaron bone have a protocol and yeah very excited to talk about the latest iteration of stick wars
hello hi guys I'm Dennis from start of second I'm one of the new validators and the community
so I'm very excited to see new circle wars coming along and all the validator seems to be I excited too
awesome so we've had already a few spaces about phase two and kind of protocol roadmap so I'll
just quickly recap so near protocol had a kind of multi-phase approach to rolling out we had
a zero mainnet in 2020 which launched with one shard we had phase one launched in 22 that we
sharded to four shards and we having phase two happening kind of within next few months testing
to really introduce data validation and in return allow to have more shards in the network
most validators have lower hardware requirements and in increased throughput of each individual
shard as well by putting state into memory we can dive in into some of the technical parts but
maybe good to give some context because obviously Bowen and Dennis participated in
stake wars before and what has been the purpose of stake wars so far kind of why it would be
important to have such events and how they help us really build robust network Bowen you want to start
yeah muted Bowen right yeah sorry I yeah I can start yeah I've been through all the
stakeholders that we've ever hosted I still remember the very first iteration where you
know that was before mainnet and we were kind of trying to start a testnet together with community
and on the first date didn't go very well because there were like 40 people trying to start the
network together and it didn't work for a variety of reasons and we've come a very long way since
then so historically the stake wars mostly have been focused on getting more people into the
validator community as well as testing the major releases of near mostly for sharding so had one
before mainnet launch and then after mainnet launch we had a stake wars for
for the the introduction of chunk only producers as well which which also expanded the validator
set but this time it's a it's a bit different with the new upgrade on the horizon we plan to
show which would also complete phase two of sharding making near fully sharded production
posting in terms of state and transaction processing which is very exciting for the
state course itself is mostly focused on testing the implementation and maybe less so on the
on the validator side so we still have validators going to have invite validators to join the
testing network and run this validator see how how the network performs and also the adjustment
to hardware requirements and things like this but the primary focus is on sending a lot of
transactions to see how the the new design of the new implementation works under the load
and also with the in memory like moving state in memory we should also see performance
improvements as a result of that so should be able to handle more transactions as a result
and that would also be part of the the program and what we want to test so yeah I want to pass
on to Dennis to talk about it from his perspective uh hi can you hear me now
uh yeah we can hear you uh great great uh okay well um um we are as a validator community are
extremely excited to finally uh see uh stake wars for coming along um i've been uh with near since
stake wars one and that went very well i recall my experiences um unlike your experience with the
start of the network it got a little bit uh later so i didn't actually had the fun with the you know
the sleepless nights etc but overall you know um with the assistance from the team and the
system from community was one of the best uh you know test nets i ever been taking part with um
so generally i don't think to be honest like stake wars two and stake wars three were really
great as great and but i'm i hope we learn from the mistakes and this new stake wars will be
um much better much better and for now as today is the focus for basically standard transactions
i don't believe we only need validators for node runners to take part in that like every like
crypto into jostle they can can just send a bunch of transactions and write the scripts
don't have to be a validator just feel free and sign the form and start using the network um
but for the second part like for the node runners uh it's certainly going to be a really
good experience to to try something new and we are all really excited to see stateless validations on
main app yeah uh yeah that is exactly right about the the audience right i think historically
um stake wars uh have been focused on validators or like potential uh
validators who want to get into the community uh and become validator or near uh but this time
uh as Dennis pointed out is uh is a bit different because we're primarily focusing
on the uh kind of more of the testing of the the new implementation itself is through like
sending a lot of transactions that's why we named it the attack of transactions um so it doesn't
you you don't have to be a validator to to train or like you don't even have to you know want to
run a validator node uh to to join the network it's not uh as as long as you're uh interested
in the uh in in year's uh development um or like the just want to see the sharding uh panel
uh and actually getting uh incremented uh in practice and see the um improvement of throughput
of near uh then yet it would be a great opportunity uh for you to uh to join the program
and send transactions to to test network and actually think it's probably um you know for
this type of activity a smart contract developer would be uh a great uh it would be great for
for the program um because like with any kind of testing uh we want to have like more variety
there so we wanted to see people sending a variety of transaction loads uh to help us uncover uh
maybe issues that we have not seen ourselves on or just some bug in the code or or things like this
so to summarize we have the new network um called stateless net that is up and running that
you can either join as a validator and provide kind of
like more validated power test out learn how to how to run a validator in the new environment
or you can uh you know deploy smart contract and uh engage with a lot of transactions
um try you know some regular things like sending uh sending fungible tokens or minting NFTs or
any other use case that you want to do and really try to squeeze out all the power that
this new network will be providing when it goes on mainnet
um so i think the you can go to near.org slash stake wars it redirects you to
github which describes kind of different ways to participate and how to join
yeah i mean i yeah i can talk a bit more about the details of the program given that we're just
talking about the high levels before and the you know target audience and then i think i'm pretty
sure there are people in the audience right now want to know more about the details of the program
so right now it's divided into two stage so the program is it's designed to run for two months
from the beginning of february to the end of march and it's dividing two two stage the first stage
is basically the entirety of february and the second stage is the entirety of march
so in the first stage is mostly both for us to set up the network and making sure it's
operational and also seeing the the issues by just running the network itself and also for people to
come in and poke around in the network and play with it to see what kind of issues or bugs you
can find and during this stage the activities that would that would be eligible for reward is
to submit bug bounty reports sorry submit bug reports on github and that would greatly help us
making sure that our implementation is secure and stable and then in the in the second stage
where that starts in in march we'll have both the external validators joining this testing
network along with us and also rewarding people for actually sending a ton of transactions
and how exactly we would calculate for the transaction reward is detailed on the reward
section of the program on github you can you can take a look and yeah as i said again the focus
will be on trying to find problems by playing around with networks and interactions to uncover
issues that we have not previously seen
cool so if you have any questions about that you can ask them a bit later
but now maybe let's switch gears and talk about the changes this introduces to validators and
how we expect this affects non-producers as well as the kind of validators and
shift of the role in phase two yeah so i can definitely talk a bit more about that so the
one of as a result of this big change of stateless validation arguably the largest
changing the design and the implementation seems to be long-term in that where we're switching or
like we're reimagining the the row of like validators so previously or currently we have
block producers on the on the network there are a hundred of them that are responsible for
producing blocks and actually they track all the charts today today and then we have
trunk only producers that are supposed to produce trunk for a specific chart
so there are a maximum of 300 of them on the network today but you know in practice it's
not fully utilized so in the new setup the rows are i would say a bit switched around
so there is the trunk proposers or like you can call them trunk producers as well but
i call them trunk proposers just to avoid the confusion in the naming with the chunk only
producer we have today so the the trunk proposers are the type of auditors would operate more
expensive hardware they will still track one chart but they will be responsible for producing
the chunks for the chart applying the that the trunk including transactions and receipts
and then generate the state witness required for other auditors to to execute the chunk
and then the reason why they would require more expensive hardware is that in the design they
actually hold the entire state in memory and this is where we leverage the the sharding design of
NIR so that the state of the entire network is sharded into different shards so that we can say
the size of each shard is bounded by some constant let's say hypothetically 50 gigabytes
and then the validator or sorry the trunk proposer for the shard would just be able to
load that entire state in memory and this result would have to operate
machine with more RAM and that's that's most of the change and potentially higher network
bandwidth as well due to the need to distribute uh stateless sorry state witnesses and then the
the other type is the validators the stateless validators whose job is to verify the state
transition proposed by the trunk proposers are correct and they do so by verifying the execution
against the state witness provided by the trunk proposers and as a result they they would
not they will not need to run as expensive hardware as people do today mostly on the side
of SSDs and the requirement of that should be dramatically reduced so that's the kind of the
overview of uh this change and um yeah guys I'll pass it to Dennis to talk about this from his
perspective. Hello again yeah well um totally excited about uh see that new technology coming
along and um of course from being a validator we we do not really care much about you know the
how expensive hardware we can run I mean so long we we can secure the network we we provide
with a requirement quite hardware but saying that if you are aiming for like thousands and
thousands of validators uh this is of course becoming crucial point where like a validator
can run from raspberry pi or like you know from home pc or something when when validator becomes
um a point where it doesn't have to be be like hundreds and up time where you can like
bring it on and on on and off like then then yes of course the the hardware becomes really relevant
and you really need to look at uh you know making it more affordable to run for like ordinary people
like you know with the technologies out there like you know with the scripting and everything
anybody can install the validator like in no time um but like right now with a limited set I
don't think it's very important from a validated point of view to run like on cheap hardware we
we do not mind to run on the most expensive hardware also I think there will be like
some questions in terms of like a program itself probably leave it till later
yeah I think uh Dennis mentioned a good point about the decentralization of the network
indeed uh which does change um there is kind of like a bigger maybe shift in like how the
the validators are or like how we think about uh the validator set right so before is basically um
like every validator is essentially like equal to another validator in terms of like their row in
the network uh but now which the status validation change there is this asymmetry introduced uh so
there is this uh chunk proposer is essentially uh a few of them in the network that would operate
more expensive hardware um and responsible for producing the chunks in the state uh witness
as well but then there's a ideally a lot of the uh stillest validators uh who can potentially
operate on cheap hardware on cheaper hardware um and they would be responsible for verifying the
state transition proposed by the uh chunk proposers um and the important thing here
is that uh the chunk proposers while there are a few of them and they operate more expensive
hardware they actually will not be able to do anything malicious because security on the of
the network is dependent on uh the stateless validators actually validating the uh state
transition using the state witness um and as a result I think this is a good trade-off to to
accept uh and it's not only providing more potential for decentralization of the network
but also it's more future proof right as we as we can see that uh zero knowledge technology is
maturing very rapidly today and we expect that uh maybe in the next three years we will be able to
see an actual integration of zero knowledge proofs into the uh into layer one protocols
and that point we the status validation architecture uh can mostly remain the same
except that um uh instead of validating the uh chunk against the state witness uh they can
validate uh just one zero knowledge proof um and uh make sure that uh the chunk that they verify
is valid so maybe to add and contrast those to other solutions right that we see we have
ethereum with roll-ups where each roll-up runs a sequencer and then they settle on some data
availability uh they put the kind of transaction to data availability and then after that uh settle
execution on ethereum in the way uh the chunk proposers are decentralized sequencers
there is you know multiple of them per each chart uh making sure you have you know you're
robust from halts of any individual uh kind of chunk producer you have the data availability
integrated directly into the protocol after they produce uh chunks and then you have the
kind of validation settlement done in the state of validation uh in the way you know
making it a realistic roll-ups um so you have kind of very similar design space right i mean
there's other blockchains like polka dot that are also using similar but with kind of usual you know
near focus on how do you make the user experience as straightforward as chain abstracted as possible
okay the idea here is to minimize like to you know not have any changes to how users and
developers are interacting with this while being able to add you know both performance throughput
and also uh being able to add you know more validators to the network uh as requirements
get lower i think also dennis mentioned a very interesting thought that as we have more of
these validators which are not which are now can validate uh any shard because they don't need to
have the state of that shard we can potentially also reduce requirements for that for their online
uptime and in turn we can have more validators who are kind of more
uh providing security to the network but same time are not online all the time it's okay to have like
kind of a longer tail of home validators or uh folks who are just running you know potentially
under that thought that may you know that doesn't work uh that it's not online from time to time
i think that's all kind of in further iteration for this but uh this definitely design is kind
of pushing in that direction to make it larger larger network with more validators who are kind
of can plug in and plug out without needing to maintain the state of the chain which is a current
current design yep um it's definitely something we can explore further in the future and indeed
which the you know decay becoming more mature like this question of like how much stake we
actually need to secure a network right because at the point like the fundamental security model
of the proof of stake blockchain becomes also an interesting point of discussion because like
everyone like you can in your browser can verify the validity of the of the blockchain and maybe
at some point we don't need like uh it they we don't need necessarily them to be recognized
on the protocol levels as validators uh it's more like it's also about the uh kind of the
in a way consensus or like social consensus outside of the uh the protocol itself that can be
achieved through like wide uh adoption of uh their knowledge crews yeah that's a lot of interesting
stuff to be explored all right so maybe uh switching gears again um i saw a question around
what are the rewards for the program so maybe i mean you already mentioned about kind of the
schedule and how it runs uh would be good yeah kind of what is the uh what do people expect
from this but also from dennis perspective kind of if there are any comments or thoughts about
the program and then we can open up for questions from the from the audience yeah yeah so uh yeah
again like the i would uh refer people to to kind of the rewards section of the uh github uh
statewide github um and probably i should post it in the in the comment as well but roughly the
idea is that um we're rewarding people for like the the issues that they find uh during the the
program and obviously you know not every problem or every bug is is equal like some are more
critical than others uh so there is this uh um kind of assessment on how critical a uh the
uh the issues that people find is uh and also um how complete the report is and there are some
multipliers that we assign to those things and then uh and then there is a this baseline reward
of 150 near and uh so we multiply by the multiplier and then decide on how how much
reward we uh we give to people uh and then for the um for the part of uh traffic generation
uh like sending a lot of transactions to the network uh it's it's also like a similar concept
there's just um so people the post a summary of like the type of transactions that they're sending
um and we would assess the uh like how uh how important that type of traffic is or like how
novel it is uh and also see like the impact on the network and then there's a multiplier issue
assigned and then there's baseline reward of 500 near uh so we multiply them together and
give uh that would determine the final reward um so yeah that's kind of the the idea um and yeah
because it's somewhat complex so i would say like please refer to the actual document for
for more details um and yeah yeah yeah yeah post it as an answer here to near Ukraine guilt tweets
but yeah tennis go ahead okay yes uh that's a very very interesting topic and
um um you we know that there's a lot of validators outside of uh near ecosystem
who runs other chains who are really thrilled and would like to join near ecosystem
because all of the validators are trying to expand their portfolio and some of them never
never never looked at near some of them had before uh a lot more now as i can see a lot
more looking at near and right now all of the most of the questions uh the the top one question
of these validators how how uh stake wars work and help them to join the mainnet validators
i mean the words are words in like they have a monetary value but for validation is more
important to have a seat on the mainnet uh where like some foundation or some other
ndc or someone else can provide with their minimum stake so they can start validating
so this basically needs to the question is the mainnet set is going to be expanded
in the future or not i think this is top number one question i have been
seeing talking to to other validators and other networks uh about stake wars for
yeah that's uh go ahead yeah and another question is basically more technical i don't know people
would like to hear that it's just basically about the transactions and stuff so i know there there
are there are ways to send a lot of transactions from one single machine there's also ways to send
it from you know various sources so the questions really say you're interested in like volume so
let's say one single machine or or it's going to have to be like volume from all all around the
world it's all different kind of fish in terms of uh complexity of setting up this kind of
setup so if you need just one or two or five machines to send a transaction is one thing
keeping it like 100s or 1000 machines to send you traffic that's another kind of fish
yeah so the yeah i think both questions are very interesting uh so for the first question about uh
you know the validator set and how to become validator and near um so i mean yes definitely
as we get to more shards uh there there is potential to have more validators on the network
but what i will say is that today like we're nowhere near like utilizing the full capacity
or like full capacity of the the validator set right now so as i just checked we have 211
validators uh a minute uh today and i think the the maximum is 400 uh so definitely there's room
to to have more uh validators there um even without changing anything right so uh that's
still like quite a few validators if they want to join the network they can um and i think the
minimum uh threshold to become validator today is about 25 000 near um i mean yeah i think it's
obviously subjective on like whether that's high or low um but yeah i think the um i mean i'm not
sure about the uh incentivization program to to delegate uh stake for um for like newcomers
uh i i think uh you know i don't think near foundation plan to operate anything like this
uh in the in the near future but maybe you can talk more about that part well i think in general
even the previous take worse we we tried to instead of near foundation being kind of this
operator and delegator which generally you know has a lot of criticism on itself has um kind of
additional um you know operational overhead overhead uh we prefer to use liquid staking
providers and and really work with them the benefit of near liquid staking providers compared for
example to a tedium is because of kind of highly programmable staking they are not actually
essentializing power but are decentralizing power i think both linear and uh as linear as taking
across you know hundreds if not uh 200 validators and so uh i would expect that like as network
you know continues to grow we will see more mistake shifting to liquid staking and you know
they are supporting new validators as they come online so i would work with the you know medical
and linear uh to kind of get your initial delegation from from those pockets uh and you
know as far as i know they have you know brought in new validators on board recently uh kind of
through shifting some of their delegations to the i think uh maybe relevant question is right now
there's a minimum of 20 000 near that's required to become a validator and so uh if this change
kind of uh will also lead to us reducing that limit i mean a good question to bowen but i agree
that even right now there is available slots so it's more about working with liquid staking
providers to get some of the initial delegation to hit that 20 000 limit yeah uh yeah i think
definitely that limit sorry that limit could be reduced but i mean it is going to be a relatively
involved protocol change so for context that limit was introduced so that um uh the so that the
probability of any uh validator like today not producing any chunk uh in an epoch would be
extremely low so like essentially like a very like pretty much like not going to happen in practice
right so because today like every validator is going to produce some chunk uh or like act as
a chunk producer in some uh capacity uh so they are expected to produce um at least one chunk in
in uh in an epoch uh which is 43 000 blocks um and otherwise you will not get rewarded but i
mean if you become a validator and not get reward and then get kicked out that's definitely not
the idea right so that's why this minimal threshold was introduced um but indeed with
this shift uh or it was just changed to stillest validation that's not no longer the case the chunk
production is taken care of by the chunk proposers and the stillest validators actually get rewarded
by endorsing uh those chunks um and indeed uh because of that we we no longer need this
original threshold that's dependent on them producing like one one chunk in during the
the entirety of an epoch um but again as i said uh tech i mean conceptually yes we can we can
uh get rid of the uh threshold but in practice um changing this will be a relatively involved
protocol change uh so uh we do expect that uh i would need to take some time to make the change
uh okay i think we can uh talk about the second part of the question that uh that dennis uh was
talking about um yeah sorry dennis can you remind us the the second question yeah yeah sure it's
about the um stage one where you want to see a lot of transactions how do you want to see them
like there's just to i know it's all in the document but just the clarification what is
in the document yeah yeah uh i i don't think the this question you ask is actually in the in the in
the docs um so yeah it's a great question i i mean i don't think we particularly care about like
where exactly people send a transaction from that's less important whether you send it from
one machine or send it from a lot of different machines um i think it's more about the nature of
the transactions right so what type of transaction are they are the um you know transfers or like
cost two smart contracts if they are cost two smart contract what kind of smart contract are
they calling and things like this and it's and also the volume obviously matters right so if
you send one transaction a day probably doesn't really help um but where exactly those transactions
come from like in terms of geographic locations we don't really care
okay i would add that i'm assuming we want to see both we want some people who will like
spin up you know quote-unquote bot network that will try to you know overwhelm
overwhelming from the globe and i will it's interesting to see also just massive traffic
from you know single servers because we actually see both of those traffic patterns right now
in real applications right we have meta transactions in layers who are routing traffic
from a single server or from a single class like small cluster of servers and they're using you
know hundreds of keys to send non-dissecting transactions um but we also have you know
many of the non-custodial users from back in from their wallets kind of across the globe
and doing that uh as well so we kind of see both of these traffic patterns and i would
would be interesting to see them in testing as well at high capacity and seeing how how network
performs with both of the suitcases and especially yeah making sure that you know between non-custodial
kind of RPC routing all these pieces are working you know if anyone interested in investigating
that i mean that that's like an area where i'm sure there's something to to be found and and
reporting with the team for extra uh very very points
okay thank you liam so i would suggest uh all the contestants to get to know your ecosystem
better read the documentation understand the smart contracts and try all the different
transactions types you know create deploy smart contract delete smart contract execute smart
contract methods uh make swap use ref finance test if there is already a variable or not for
for doing some complex transactions and um you know so be a winner
yeah sounds good um thanks dennis uh should we move to questions from the audience
oh sounds good really appreciate you guys speaking on the new the newest stakeholders i'm happy to
kind of open up the floor for anybody that may have any questions uh so far we do have a request
from near ukraine guild so i'll go ahead and bring that up in the meantime um yeah go ahead
thank you for uh allowing me to speak so yeah i just wanted to uh pull up the question that
dennis asked about uh onboarding new validators so my question is um what is the blockers right
now in the near protocol network to like increase the number of validators and when are we planning
to increase these numbers and if yeah firstly these questions uh i mean the blocker i mean well
first of all the the value set is not saturated there is more room for more validators to join
right so and actually many of them um and then the blocker i would say is the number of shards
right so obviously the uh the more shards we have the more validators we will need uh so we are
uh moving to five shards uh in the in the next release it's going to happen in a few weeks so
that's exciting um but yeah i think we we are also thinking about expanding uh to um many
more shards um after we have the uh status validation uh released down uh so then yes
that will open up room for a lot more validators uh okay fine so uh the the only blocker is the
number so you don't have enough job for more validators right i mean right now we do right
right now if you want to join as a validator you definitely can uh i mean you do need like
to attract some amount of stake uh today there's a minimum stake threshold i think today is probably
about 25 000 near um so that could be considered another broker it depends on like the no no i mean
but on the network level we have like limitation in the 235 right validators so we can't get more
validators right we can be blasting like in the freedom right it's like 2000 validators right
right i know i think today the maximum is 400
uh-huh so we're so right now like we can have uh up to 400 validators oh okay it's interesting
so uh i think so the main problem right now that the like just validators don't have enough near
state right or there yeah i i don't know the the exact answer it could be that there are not enough
people wanting to run a validator that that's also possible okay in then the question is uh
yes i understand the stake force program it's like the main goal of this program is to
onboard more validators and support from foundation to new validators as Denis said
this uh like first initial funding as did uh stake was three or stake was two or stake was first
whatever uh because as we don't like other blockchains do the same right and for me it's
a little bit strange that the stake force four is not uh working in this direction or will it work
in this direction will it support to onboard your validators um you're right that the focus
of this state course is uh be different from previous iterations uh the the main uh reason
is that uh this upcoming release or the upcoming launch of phase two of sharding um in the initial
iteration does not touch the validator part too much in the sense that the value is set would
remain largely the same uh it's in terms of like the capacity like how many values are allowed on
the network um there will be obviously this enables potential to have a lot more values in the future
but it is not for the initial launch and then for the initial launch we we want to make sure that
you know the uh the implementation is uh correct uh and doesn't have any any bugs and um i also
want to make sure that we can test the performance improvements that's brought by the new release so
that's where it's why the focus of the uh this iteration of state course mostly on that
we may have future iterations where we'll be more focused on uh bringing more validators but that's
not the focus of this iteration of state course okay thank you for your question and the last
question for yeah maybe so uh in terms that we have community treasury of ndc and uh it's it's
we won't be used for the next year for example totally we can use some of these funds for
uh to onboard uh more validators like create a program with a metabol and lsd kind of state
course uh what do you think should uh like in dc and community work in this direction or
it's not a priority right now to decentralize the network more
i mean i that can be a good initiative i think um i know validator and a working group have
suggested few ideas so i think some proposal like that makes sense working with uh liquid
staking providers and then um yeah leverage them to organizers so yeah i mean you guys should organize
uh i just want to say sorry i just want to say uh on that uh subject uh i think um the current
program focus on actually testing that will attempt sort of uh send a lot of transactions
that is not what validators normally do uh but also if they in the stage number three or number
four number three this uh test not too quiet and not runners like so i think it makes sense to maybe
partner with liquids taking providers to say they like top five or top ten winners of the
not running program will get some sort of a delegation from metapol or from linear
but in in this matter i think they runs the program need to i think i don't think validators
have leverage with uh to uh to ask for stake from liquid staking providers because there is no
program on with uh within liquid staking providers to support whether they says like that to provide
minimum stake right now as of today maybe this needs to be discussed and you know we would like
to see these ideas but this was exactly what's on stake for three right so the new foundation
you didn't pay for metapol and others it's just yeah so i mean we can take this offline but
yeah my suggestion is organize with liquid staking providers and uh can i i mean can either
create a proposal i mean for non-used ndc funds right because they are stakeable
um and or uh you know foundation can participate in that as well and
like i think it should come from the validator working group as a proposal
but yeah i mean it can like coincide with the current initiative of of stake worst but as bowen
mentioned like the the the focus that they they're interested in as protocol work group is to make
sure that the protocol is you know solid is able to process uh kind of at scale massive
amount of transactions at the same time it is a good opportunity as well to onboard new validators
and get them familiar with the ecosystem and how to run nodes especially for next uh next generation
so yeah i think if validator work group wants to spearhead this and organize something that would
be great i think both dennis and you you guys should uh you know push that and let's figure out
how to support you i'd really appreciate you coming up and asking i did pin the um near
validator working group as well on uh the twitter spaces so anybody else as well that's interested
in joining uh and working on proposals like please do join um i'm going to go ahead and
we probably have enough time for maybe one or two questions so i'm going to go ahead and bring up
timothy avrey who's requested to speak um if you want to go ahead uh and and ask any questions
if you're uh trying to speak your mic is needed timothy hello perfect now we can hear you
okay thank you um my question was more about the complex transactions um is it possible for
and understand i'm not a developer um but just say somewhere like ref finance is it possible to like
create a staking environment where you're um staking into like 12 to 15 different coins at
once like a mutual fund but i wouldn't know how to exactly explain it in crypto terms so it's like
when you click right into one staking form you're actually clicking into like 15 different coins it
seems like you're making a simple transaction but you're really making one across 15 transactions
and it's like that in both directions is that what y'all mean more about the complex and interesting
transactions or am i way off base i mean it's a good example of a complex transaction
to me um i mean on ref i mean what you're describing is uh kind of index uh so there's
there's some implementation index smart contract but uh uh that would be a smart contract to deploy
and and play with it and try it out um you can also indeed deploy just ref finance smart contracts
and you know have multi uh multi token pools which require or support depositing a number
of tokens at the same time so yeah i think generally is whatever kind of interesting you
know real modes that people are experiencing on mainnet or will be experiencing and you know
replicating them and then you know dialing them to 11 risk transactions and kind of
uh all of that will be really important to showcase
awesome thank you Timothy good question um i think we have enough time for maybe one more so i will
go ahead and uh bring up uh let me see here if we have any more uh actually any more requests
in a second here uh yeah it looks like we have uh george marlo i'll go ahead and bring up george
marlo and i think we'll probably have uh that time for one more all right george go ahead
hey there everybody um my question was on the chunk producers the new proposers excuse me
so for the chunk proposers do you all have any idea what the minimum stake will be to be one of
those and also would the will the rewards be any different between the proposers and the people
that complete the chunks thanks yeah that's a great question um so initially in the in the
initial release uh the plan is to just um order by stake right so let's say we uh so it will be
like some hard code the number let's say we decide there will be um five chunk proposers per shard
then um in total that will be um let's say 25 chunk proposers across the network uh then there
will be just people which is the most stake um and in the future yes we will think more about
how to change the um the value reward uh and um uh kind of the separation into those two
two parts how the reward are distributed and so on right now it's just um you know people uh what
right now will not change how the reward calculation is done so basically the rewards
still be based on stake uh so it makes sense that uh uh the the chunk proposers uh will receive like
more reward but that would be automatically the case uh given that we will select people with
more stake makes sense thanks for the time
um all right thank you so much really good question um looks like there's no more requests
so i mean do any of the speakers have any final remarks um anything that maybe uh didn't get
covered that they that you guys thought of uh before we close the session
yeah i think maybe as a final remark like it's exciting to see uh just coming together and i
agree that uh the current stake worse is a little bit different design a lot more on testing the
infrastructure than onboarding validators but at the same time that doesn't mean that validators
cannot kind of organize and and um or or community cannot organize to onboard modality or some
numbers so we'll we'll follow up on that um but i think the interesting part here is how do we get
uh you know quality upgrade for this when this goes mainnet to make sure that we have
kind of all of the potential edge cases you know seen and investigated early on on on this uh
incident device that's nice i think that's kind of important as we you know want to continue
maintaining 100 uptime or what is our core kind of blockchain that we also want to start you know
being kind of this coordination layer you know account aggregation and chain
abstraction layer for the rest of the three
all right and i think that wraps things up i really appreciate you uh coming on ilia bowen
and dennis hopefully you guys all are super excited about the latest stake wars initiative
and uh look forward to seeing you in the next twitter spaces everybody take
care and have a wonderful day thanks everyone thank you very much thank you bye