Each other, each truck, each seeing on each one of Chanel.
Raging the rooms, they try to kill them with the pointy bells.
I used to pretend that I'm in the spot before a death,
creasing to the dogs, not wanting more for themselves.
It's like they're having on my own scale,
knowing they gonna sell another citizen cane,
and they doing some wells.
Walking through Maryland, how the fuck do you use your Chanel?
I got these cats tucking tails in four quarters there.
I used to see the tears drop over an orange field,
a restaurant where there's no thing that moves around here.
I said we gotta talk about us, I feel like Jordan Field.
Could tell I'm getting under your skin like a orange field.
It's the words from that choice, it's like a cornfield.
And now I'm stylist in the land like the horror field.
Didn't you kid you had for 15 years and got on this one?
That I told the skies, look the ominous.
The money is autonomous, shout out to all of y'all.
Got the wrong guns, all the shit.
Hey, Jeremiah, watch y'all.
Niggas know what time it is.
I'm in it out of you, said I'll be so much on my obvious.
Folks, when they don't send you a lobby,
Savage got a great car that's straight out of the closet.
Where I go, you go, brother, we do go sobbing.
Formulas, he dressed all the dolls, funny checks.
I'm still talking, nigga, what the fuck.
Now I'm worried different, man.
I'm feeling like, I feel like it might switch out
This shit is two in a time, so I ain't got to lie.
Look, y'all must do the silly dance.
I raise up the wine glass with metal detection.
Beat that security bypass.
Someone pull up the line, rap.
The days are going by, it's like I'm living in time, lads.
They talking to a dad like he made you in five days.
Shana and Twain don't care, they get in line dancing.
They try and rob me, and it's gonna feel
like you're sitting at your favorite restaurant.
This nigga, that's where you got it at.
Five times, I swear to be like a bitch with my sisters
and my cousins and family.
I'm getting from my nemesis.
300 acres, PGA on the premises.
That's what's really racking like this first one, right?
This is, I'm giving hits to niggas,
All right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Yeah, look, the young boys take some of that money
and send it aside, not having enough to pay on taxes
and federal crime, you need some sex with me
and it's not gonna hit a robot.
Hell, don't be so quiet, you think that I'm letting it slide.
Next day, you know me too.
Yo, yo, yo, DM, GM, everybody.
I think we're waiting for a couple people.
I see them down there listening up,
so I'm sending them over an invite,
but I think we got most speakers up here.
We're waiting for a couple more people to come through.
I wanna touch up base with my man, Leo.
Good, very good, very much looking forward to this space.
As you said in the project,
this is our bread and butter.
Looking forward to the discussion.
I was actually in a space with this account
just before from IQ protocol,
talking about interoperability,
only slightly and then the conversation kind of drifted off.
Let's see how it goes here.
Looking forward and thanks to everyone for joining.
Yeah, man, no, I'm excited for it, man.
Like I said, yeah, I mean, this is you guys, man.
So I'm really excited to kind of dive into this conversation
and kind of hear from one of the experts himself
to see, learn a little bit more about
everything we're gonna be talking about,
interoperability and the metaverse.
I wanna go ahead and pass it around
to some of the speakers we have up here.
I wanna pass it over to EC.
Man, you guys have been killing it
with some of the spaces, man.
I'm excited to have you guys on.
How have you guys been doing?
Just really enjoying ourselves,
joining another conversation with you.
Juan, this is Jared behind the account
and looking forward to talking about metaverse,
crazy stuff that is resurfacing this time around.
Man, I feel like every time we get a little pump
in the market, everybody starts talking
about the metaverse again.
So I'm excited to kind of dive into it a little bit.
But I wanna pass it over to my brother, Kehlano, man.
It's been a little bit since we hopped
in the space together, man.
Yeah, good morning, good afternoon.
Always doing good, thank you for asking.
And yeah, very much looking forward to the conversation.
It feels like I haven't spoken
about the metaverse since 2021.
So I'm very much looking forward to this.
Man, I feel like at least half of us up here
can say the same thing, man.
I feel like, you know, the metaverse has kind of died down.
But it might be picking up again, man.
You know, it might be picking up again.
So I'm excited to kind of dive into this,
but I wanna pass it over to my man.
So we're at Old Serve Verse.
I think I said that right.
Please help me if I didn't,
but I wanna pass it over to you guys.
Good morning, good morning.
I'm the director of marketing over here at Otherverse.
It's a common mistake, but all good, all good, yeah.
I'm very excited for this space.
Shout out Kearney for having us on here.
You know, we're, Otherverse has been a metaverse
for going on 20 years now.
Our founder, Brian Schuster,
kind of was the, you know, it was his brainchild.
So I'm excited to be here,
excited to talk everything metaverse.
Yeah, nah, I'm excited to have you guys on
and kind of dive into the conversation.
I wanna pass it over to my man, Dave.
Yeah, for those who don't know,
I am designer Dave, a 25-year game industry veteran.
I've been working in games since Warcraft 3,
and you might know some of my work from the old space,
but now I'm in Web 3, working on Engines of Fury
as the chief of game design.
So in terms of metaverse,
I've been debunking and dunking on the metaverse
for the last decade, ever since the Zuck thought
It's something I've shit on pretty frequently.
So I'm very curious to get into this conversation
and maybe play a little devil's advocate with you guys.
Yeah, man, no, I love it.
I think we're, yeah, like I said,
we have some people coming up now,
but I wanna pass it over to Mega Weapon.
How are you guys doing over there?
Hey, guys, I'm doing well.
Hey, guys, I'm doing well.
I see some familiar faces.
Leo actually, and over at Style,
we actually met almost two years,
God, when was it last year?
And we talked a little bit about
possibly using the Style tech,
I've actually seen it before within our game.
So that's pretty cool stuff.
Got to be on a space with you here.
And I'm also laughing because Engine of Fury,
we actually, a couple years ago,
when we first started out,
I found your website and I really love it.
We actually hired your web designer team
So that's actually a funny relationship we have there
I mean, I know there's a lot of overlap there in the space.
So it's good to see a small space around it
as well as the teams that have been there
since the beginning, sticking around
in the high quality projects,
still surviving through all that.
I'm excited to see, you know,
I love when kind of projects like, you know,
that have been around for a long time kind of come together,
especially seeing each other kind of building
for the last couple of years.
It's probably like one of the greatest things in the space.
But we have Salamander up here.
I know you're getting ready for NFT New York.
Bruh, the vibes are gonna be so immaculate.
Like, I'm like so hyped up.
Like I've never been to an IRL event.
I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna be so geeky though,
I'm gonna just be like staring at the charts
and just like in my corner.
I hope I'm not like that,
but I know for a fact that in the beginning phases,
I'll probably be like that.
I've never been to an IRL event.
Been here since 2021, you know, working in web three.
So yeah, I think it's time to shine.
Super excited to be here.
And also just thank you for having me up at the stage.
I see lots of legends here in the crowd.
So yeah, really excited to chat about interoperability.
I'm excited to have you on.
Thank you for coming through last minute.
I know we had a couple of projects
that weren't able to make it with us,
but I'm excited to have everybody that we have up here.
I mean, you guys are legends like Salimander said.
But I wanna start off with you, Leo, man.
Before we actually dive into the conversation,
I know there might be some people down in the audience
that don't know what interoperability is.
Could you kind of give them a quick rundown of what that is
and kind of like what that looks like in the space
and, you know, kind of the benefits of it?
Sure, but just real quick for Salimander.
I think NFT New York City is gonna be fun this year.
It was pretty meh, pretty dead.
But just this year, I know a lot of people going
that are founders of good projects.
Yeah, well, for us, I mean, interoperability,
I think is what needs to happen for a lot of virtual worlds
and this metaverse as we want it to kind of succeed.
Everyone defines metaverse a little bit differently.
Some put metaverse on a virtual world,
you know, that's kind of like meeting rooms.
I disagree, but for me, metaverse is more like
it's fully immersive kind of like world
where people can participate in.
Decentraland has done a pretty good job many years ago
already in setting up what could be a metaverse.
And when it comes to this like, you know,
3D virtual future, whether it's metaverses
where people hang out, build experiences
or whether it's complete immersive.
Single player games, I believe that there is a need
for all of these worlds to kind of like be able
to talk to each other, if you will,
and for assets to be movable
across different virtual environments.
I just think that, you know, it makes sense
on so many levels, not only for individuals as players
to be able to take an asset and move it from one place
to another, from one metaverse to another metaverse,
if you will, or from one game to another game, if you will.
But it also makes a lot of sense for game developers.
If you can tap into a supply chain of assets
from other games that can be moved into your game,
it can make it a lot easier, I think, for indie games
to build great fun worlds faster
and piggyback of other people's IP,
while at the same time providing
a kind of like unique experience for players.
Yeah, man, that's awesome.
And, you know, interoperability is something
that I recently came across,
and I think it's something that's really cool,
and I think we're gonna see a lot more projects
kind of implement this into kind of their campaigns
and their worlds that they're building.
I think we've seen Nifty Island do this correctly
in a couple of their projects,
but I wanted to kind of get that, you know,
out of the way, because I know some people
might not know what this means,
but I want to actually start up
with some of the questions about the Metaverse.
So I'm really curious to hear some of you guys' thoughts.
Like, what is your definition of the Metaverse?
so massive multiplayer online game?
Like, what does the Metaverse
actually look like for you guys?
I want to go over to Leo and then we'll go around
to some of the speakers up here.
Sure, I mean, I think I've gave like a rough definition already.
I think we can all agree that a Metaverse is a space
where people get together online
and can kind of participate.
I think one of the kicker elements for me is a somewhat,
especially when you look at it from a web-free angle,
is a somewhat native currency to the environment.
And I guess what I previously said,
the ability to participate in this environment.
For example, there's some virtual worlds out there
that market as Metaversus,
but it's centralized entities
where people don't really have the opportunity
and there's no native token.
I would argue that this is not a Metaverse,
it's just a virtual world
where people can kind of log into.
I mean, we kind of seen it in the last bull markets.
To me, it's kind of like a place
where people can kind of just come and hang out.
it kind of gets you away from the real world.
But I want to hear from Kalano, man.
What's your definition of the Metaverse?
What does the ideal Metaverse world look like for you,
I think Metaverse, in web3s, really,
were a word that sometimes can be overused.
I think any virtual gaming experience
that is going to be multiplayer is, to me, a Metaverse.
So I think the OG of Metaverse is Second Life, for example.
Some of you may be too young for this,
but Second Life was basically the Metaverse
It was a game where people had an economy in game.
They could buy sneakers, buy clothes,
furnish their apartment, and all that stuff.
People could talk to themselves, et cetera.
And I think that's really what it is, right?
It's a multi-massive player environment that is live
and that never sleeps and where people can come in,
have a good time, do some gaming, do some playing,
and be a community together.
And on top of it, if there is fun games to do,
I mean, honestly, I wasn't able to get around
to what you just mentioned,
but I think that you kind of touched on what the Metaverse is.
And I'm excited to hear kind of what Salamander
because I think you raised your hand first.
So we'll go over to you, Salamander,
and then we'll go over to the other verse.
I think that, I mean, we could even narrow this down
way back before to this conversation, right?
The Metaverse, I think when you even talk
to quote-unquote normies about this word,
they still are trying to grasp gaming,
Web3, Metaverse, it's still not connected
And I think that if we simplify it in a way
with what it's gonna be like in the future,
it makes it a lot easier.
So I mean, when I look at both aspects
of I guess the Metaverse and gaming,
I think it just comes down to what the future,
like what technologies has done, right?
And like, shout out to the OD Labs community down there,
I'd see Macs, like they've changed the game
with augmented reality, right?
And we're starting to see that with gaming too,
like when people experience gaming,
everyone's gonna have something different
People like the quality, people either like the storytelling,
people just like the general experience about it.
And I really think that when you're looking
at the world of Metaverse,
I was like, you know, four years ago
when I heard that word for the first time,
you know, I was thinking just being on my computer
It's changed now, it's going to keep changing.
You're not even just using, I guess,
the quote-unquote Metaverse,
but like you're literally like earning to be there.
So it's just like, it's, I think that word is very vague
because I think that we're still,
like us as a community of web3 people
are still trying to figure out, you know,
what's the best way to display this?
But I mean, overall, what I'm trying to say
is that I think that over time,
technology is definitely gonna give us a better answer
of like what that's gonna look like in the Metaverse.
Yeah, no, and I think you touch up
on something really good, like interesting.
There's like, you know, the VR is like how interactive
they're gonna create the Metaverse, right?
Like, you know, in the last bull market,
I guess, like 2021, when you thought of the Metaverse,
like you said, you thought of like,
hey, I'm just gonna be in the computer
and like coin some people there.
But now it's like a very like immersive ecosystem
where you can kind of come in and like
surround yourself around this, you know,
like pretty much wherever you wanna be.
And I think VR is gonna really help push that forward,
but I wanna go over to their hands.
I want you to take it over, man.
So Kalano made a great point.
So Second Life really was one of the original Metaverses,
you know, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago.
Otherverse, you know, spawned from that.
we were the only two really quote unquote Metaverses around,
and that's exactly right.
So, you know, when Brian Shuster,
I'm speaking on behalf of him today,
when Brian Shuster was curating Otherverse 20 years ago,
there were very few things that, you know, were like it,
Second Life being one of them.
Now, you know, moving forward to what is the Metaverse,
you know, with interoperability,
you know, when I talked to Brian,
his whole vision was before the movie,
it was very ready player one.
So, you know, if you haven't seen the movie,
I definitely suggest seeing that movie.
Great depiction of the Metaverse, you know,
for good and bad, you know,
there's some, that movie really displays
the pitfalls that we could see
diving into a fully immersive, dominant world.
But what we're doing as far as, you know,
coming back to interoperability,
if you're not familiar with Otherverse,
Otherverse has been around for 20 years, you know,
there's over 25 million users have come and gone,
you know, $15 billion with the transactions in world
that have been transacted.
and, you know, speaking to interoperability,
the real purpose of what we're doing
is not just to build another siloed place
where everyone has a downloaded driver,
come hang out in our Metaverse.
It's not really like that.
What we're doing is we're building
the next layer to the internet.
So, you know, when you go on the internet right now,
you go, you know, wwwworldwideweb,
you know, we're creating Xeon browser,
which is the, you know, VWW.
So with our tech stack that we've developed
and we've been continuing to develop,
all developers can come on to our platform, Xeon,
not even, you know, if you want your own game,
you build your own game on our platform.
If you want your own Metaverse, you know,
and then there'll be, with the right permissions,
if say, you know, you come on,
you build your game on Otherverse,
you talk to Otherverse and say,
hey, look, you know, we want to intermingle communities,
can we have a portal from our game to your Metaverse?
Then in World, we create that.
And so now it's just one door that connects our communities.
But otherwise, you know, if you think about Metaverse,
it's, you know, it's not even just on the computer,
you know, augmented reality,
if you've seen Ready Player One, that's very much immersive.
So that's very augmented.
And with what we're developing,
it's not just for three, it's not just for, you know,
virtual spaces, but it's also for augmented spaces as well.
So, you know, the launch of the Apple Vision Pro
is a great, great leap forward for our space,
I think, because it's showing the public
that it's not, we're not just a, you know,
you don't have to just sit behind a computer
to converse, to communicate,
to interact with people around the world.
You can literally sit in your living room,
tune into your best friend that lives across the world
and virtually sit in the same room
and watch the same TV, you know,
watch the same movie together.
So, you know, with the development of our tech stack
and the, you know, Xehan Browser,
you know, we aim to really connect all of these,
bridge all of these, you know, realms together.
Yeah, no, and I think that's a great point.
I mean, I personally feel like, you know,
some people like the Apple Vision Pro coming out,
some people don't like it, some people feel like,
you know, it might take away kind of the human interactions
that a lot of people have,
but at the same time, I feel like it's very interesting
to see kind of like that point that you mentioned,
like people being able to kind of see even like,
let's say family members that are living across the world
or like friends and kind of getting the opportunity
to interact with them, even if it's in a virtual world,
I feel like it just, it's a different experience, right?
But I wanna pass it over to Dave, man.
How do you feel about this?
Like, what's your definition of the metaverse?
Like, how do you describe that?
Yeah, so I have three rules that I sort of use
to determine whether something is a metaverse or not.
The first is that it has to have a set of shared standards
that allows anyone to build within a shared world
and have it make sense in terms of dimensions
and avatar scale to everyone else.
Number two, it has to be a shared world space
that anyone can create and share in.
And number three, it cannot be owned by a singular entity.
because everyone wants to build the metaverse,
but no one wants to make it free for everyone to use.
So the key there is that they have to have something
that even like a noob can build in
and make something that anyone can just jump into,
like make it easy to create a room.
So what we're talking about is actually building
a level editor that anyone can use
and building 3D graphic tools that anyone can use.
Will we get there with AI?
It's possible, but the main thing
is the reason the World Wide Web was so successful
is because anyone could create a webpage
and put whatever they want on it,
up until people started cracking down on things.
And they had a shared language HTML
within which anyone could create
and it was so easy to figure out
that there was really no limit.
And that's why the World Wide Web took over.
like the reason that I have so much disdain
for the Zuck is because he thinks
he can own the metaverse.
And the moment one entity owns it,
that means they control it,
they start playing ads on stuff,
they start effing around, blocking people, all this stuff.
It's a problem, like it's not a metaverse anymore.
Yeah, no, and I like that point.
I mean, I feel like at the end of the day,
it should be kind of like an open world
where everybody can kind of come in
and interact with whoever they want,
however they want, but at the same time,
there's like another side of it
where there should be rules that are set in place
so that it's not kind of taken advantage
But I want to go over to Mega Weapon.
How do you guys feel about this?
Honestly, I never think about it.
The metaverse is so beyond
like something we're interested in building.
I like interoperability and I like shared
I love shared standards, which was mentioned.
I love decentralized spaces
and all the great things that are part of this.
But I think it's one of those things that's gonna,
I shouldn't use our first to define
because I don't know what we gain by defining it.
And in my mind, I'm still definitely stuck in a consumer.
Oh, it's basically just virtual reality
with a better virtual reality, right?
So with augmented reality, I'm not really sure.
I don't wanna think about it too much.
It's sort of like once I heard it too much in 2021
and it's also many games, scam games come and go,
I just sort of shut it out like everyone else.
So we're focused mostly on interoperability.
what we've toyed with in the past,
past we've called the quote, megaverse,
which is sort of like a joke on that
where we wanna have all our games
be interoperable with each other,
but they're not really a shared like universe
in terms of like interoperability,
in terms of like playability.
Anyway, I try to avoid talking about it too much
because I think it gives me anxiety.
No, man, I fully agree with that.
I feel like after the last little more again,
I think we overuse metaverse
that I think there needs to be another workforce
so that people don't get tired of it again.
Like I myself, sometimes when I hear metaverse,
I'm just like, okay, here we go again.
But no, I think there's gonna need to be a shift
into that, into kind of changing the way
that people feel and think about the metaverse.
But I think this is kind of like a perfect way
to kind of switch into the interoperability set of things,
that I wanted to pass over to you guys.
And I wanna start off with,
how important is interoperability to you in a web three game?
And is it necessary for every digital asset?
I wanna go over to you, Leo.
Well, I wanna start off by saying,
I don't think it's, and I probably shouldn't be saying this,
but I will say it anyhow, because we're not delusional.
I don't think it's necessary for every asset.
Not every asset needs to work in every virtual environment,
but we've heard a couple of times in this space
that if you wanna build to worlds that are migratable
and players being able to move
across different virtual environments,
a certain set of technical standards on an IT level
just doesn't make sense, interoperability.
3D adjustments across different engines,
which is what we focus on, doesn't make sense.
And when it comes to identity and being able to utilize assets,
not only for aesthetics, but long-term also for maybe stats
in game as an attack speed, defense, whatever,
can be very cool in collaborations
and for the user experience.
But I don't think it needs to be for every asset.
I also don't think, and this is maybe something
that web-free game developers don't wanna hear.
I don't think every asset if you have a web-free game
needs to be an NFT and on-chain.
I think if you have some base assets in-game,
like, I don't know, a spoon for cooking
or a fucking table or whatever for doing your house,
it can just be super classic in-game 3D asset
and doesn't need to be on-chain.
But for valuable stuff, maybe armor,
your horse, your dragon, I don't know.
NFTs do make sense because then it becomes tradable
and this whole economic and the charts we all are.
Yeah, no, I like that point.
I mean, I feel like kind of the way that I see it,
it's truly very collaborative, right?
I think the opportunity to kind of get different assets
into your game just helps really build that community.
And it just helps bring other community members into yours
and it's just kind of like a big snowball effect.
But I wanna pass it over to Megaweapon.
So Leo made some good points
that I think we generally agree with
and there's two points I'll touch on is that.
And I think, again, maybe the unpopular opinion
was like, I sort of rally a little bit
against a lot of the common theory
around asset ownership, like focusing too much
on the concept of ownership being something that is,
well, I wanna say really possible
in a way that people think of it as,
I think people conflate ownership with the ability
to buy and sell assets that can be used in the game freely
that like you have the rights to do.
And I think people confuse ownership with that.
I mean, you own really when you're talking about an NFT
or you own like an address on a blockchain,
Now, unless there is like rights given to you
through like IP transfers and things like that,
generally speaking, like I think it's better to focus more
on the right to transact and the right to buy
and sell things on a chain.
And I try to avoid the narrative like,
oh, do you own this thing?
Or you have that kind of stuff.
And then the number two, I think,
well, which I think Leo also made a good point
of like not everything needs to be an NFT.
And also when you're talking about bringing assets
into your game, you also have the risk of,
well, I don't want 300 projects bringing
Unless that's your vision, like we've been careful
about like when we can bring a project into our game,
like collaborate with the community,
we are careful to select ones that we feel we can take
their, preserve their character,
but also turn it into an asset that looks familiar
We have like a very low poly style.
Well, we wouldn't want to necessarily dilute our quote,
brand and aesthetic by having like too much interoperability
or sort of open-ended interoperability.
I think the idea of that's really cool.
And maybe we'll get to the point where like,
you know, like with style's tech,
how we could have like anything translated easily
into our style sort of like through combination of AI
and prebuilt meshes and things like that.
I think that's a really cool option.
But yeah, I think we're still waiting to feel out
like what the risks are of being like overly interoperable.
So that's where we are now.
Yeah, and I think you make up a good point there.
And I feel like at the same time,
you want to have this collaborative system
with some of these communities,
you don't want to make your whole brand
based around like another brand.
And I feel like that's something that could be,
could be kind of an issue when you try to, you know,
integrate a lot of the IPs and, you know,
some of these assets into your own platform and games.
I want to introduce IQ Protocol.
I know you guys were a little late,
but I just want to pass it over to you guys
so you guys can give an introduction.
And then I want to go over to the questions for you guys.
This is Marcelo, community lead at IQ Protocol.
Happy to see some familiar faces here.
Shout out to Salamander, Otherverse, Mega Weapon,
and many others, easy.io, Kalano,
and some friends in the audience.
I see Mikel, I see Yoko Labs, I see Max,
I see a lot of great people here.
We just had a space on digital identity and interoperability
came up into the conversation of digital identity.
Sorry to come to the party late.
I was hosting my spaces as well
and made my best to come here as soon as possible.
And also shout out to Style Protocol.
They were also a speaker up on the panel.
So super happy to be here,
working on some stuff on my personal brand,
personally with Style Protocol.
Shout out for making my little pudgy into an avatar
for NFT Island and Other Metaverse is so super excited,
And for IQ Protocol, I guess a quick intro.
We're an NFT rental marketplace.
We're facilitating a way for gamers or for players
or for users to rent out their assets,
mainly for web three games.
So for those that have some digital assets
they'd like to rent out to other players,
we do it in a way that the original asset stays in a vault
and the renter rents a copied version that is expirable
and they're able to use all the utilities
So whether it's the flex,
whether it's to use some token gated access
to whatever it is in the game,
or it's just to unlock certain features
that you'd like to use and you don't own that NFT,
we're able to do that in a way
that's now easy and accessible and risk-free for players
where they're able to rent out their assets and earned yield.
So if you own a lot of different assets,
you only need to really use one
and you wanna basically get rewarded
for renting out these assets to other players,
you're able to do that now.
So that's what IQ Protocol is about.
Again, my name is Marcelo, super happy to be here
and thanks for having me guys.
I'm excited to get into the conversation
and jump in wherever you guys left off.
Yeah, no, I appreciate it for the introduction
to kind of get you involved into the conversation.
But I actually, I think Dave had his hand up earlier
and I wanna throw it back to you, Dave.
I'm gonna ask the question again,
just in case you forgot it,
but how important is interoperability to you
and isn't necessary for every digital assets?
Yeah, so in terms of level of importance,
it's probably the lowest on my scale right now,
predominantly because of the massive amount of work
that's involved in making something interoperable
with any other individual game.
So imagine just porting one gun
from Engines of Fury over to,
let's say any fantasy world
where they've got swords and no guns.
just even figuring out what you're going to do
with that design wise is difficult.
And they certainly probably do not want guns in their game.
So you're gonna have to find some way
to figure out what that fantasy is over there.
Like, what does the gun turn into?
Is it a crossbow or is it a hand crossbow
that fires multiple bolts?
So there's a whole design problem there
that people are sort of overlooking.
It's like, oh yeah, it'd be great
if these things go between these games,
but we cannot ignore the massive amount of work
that's involved in making something interoperable
and makes sense in these different worlds
And each one of those collaborations
requires designers working from each side
to make that happen and databases to be shared,
which is scary in and of itself
because you're now sharing your IP.
It's good on the surface.
And then that's not even getting into the whole ethics
of like, at what point is it stealing
if someone makes the game entirely out of assets
from somebody else's game?
Like, you know, you didn't sell it to them.
So what benefit was it to you
other than players can now go into that game
But like, yeah, you wanna do that,
but you want it to be a collaborative effort,
So there's just a lot of questions for me.
So it's sort of low on the totem pole for me
until like I can find better solutions and answers.
There's some promise in AI.
I've seen people do amazing things
with like transferring databases from one setting
to another, from a sci-fi to a fantasy before,
but I haven't done it personally yet.
And I just have a lot of concerns about that.
Yeah, no, I think that's a great point.
And I feel like AI is gonna be very interesting
to see how, you know, we can kind of integrate
into interoperability and kind of, you know,
the whole web three ecosystem.
But I wanna go over to Salamander.
I'm not sure if you know much about interoperability,
but I wanna go over to you
and kind of get your thoughts on it.
Like how important do you think this is in a web three game?
I think it's probably the most important thing.
it's kind of all about the experience, right?
And when you look at interoperability in gaming,
it's like there's multiple components and not just,
well, if you're looking at the web two world
of just interoperability, it's by itself, right?
But if you look at a web three,
there's just so many factors that play into it.
Cause you're not even just targeting
your basic gaming consumer.
You're looking at someone who's also in the crypto space.
So I think that when you're looking
at interoperability in web three,
it's far more complex, if that makes sense.
You're laughing cause I'm like,
I think we're just degenerate here,
if that's what I wanted to say.
It's always when, when, me, me, me, go, go, go, right, so.
Yeah, no, I think you brought up a great pointer
and I wanna pass it over to Kalano here.
How do you feel about this, brother?
That's a very wide question,
but I think, you know, interoperability,
I think someone, I think it was the person
behind the style account said a few takes ago now
that it doesn't mean it has to be every asset
across every change, every game.
And I do agree with that, you know,
but what I think would be to me really interesting
is having this digital identity
with someone else mentioned that as well.
So I'm just kind of track backing on that,
but, you know, having your digital identity
where you can take that digital identity,
like, you know, your one ID to any games
and, you know, you can have specific rewards,
things you can think from one game to another,
maybe not to another one,
but I think that would be to me really
where it becomes interesting
where we have this sort of digital ID
we can take everywhere with us.
And that means you don't have to create new profiles
You already have your one ID.
And that's something I'm super excited about.
Obviously that means you can't, I guess,
create tons of fake characters everywhere.
But I think that to me would be the real definition
That is a complicated words, you know?
I don't know, for French people,
I don't like it as much, you know?
But yeah, that's what I would be really excited about,
whether our games, weapons, assets, and all that
can transfer from one game to another.
That's not a big thing for me.
A digital ID across games would be way more fun.
I've been struggling here to say interoperability,
but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
But now I think it's gonna be really cool.
Yeah, no, I just wanted to say this is especially where,
you know, blockchain comes in so handy here,
and arguably is the first time in gaming
where this can even be approached in a sustainable way.
David brought up a lot of very fair points.
And just from the points arisen,
it's very clear for me to tell that he's been
actually like in-game development
and 3D engineering for a while.
Because it's true, if you don't have on-chain
or some kind of like traffic mechanisms,
things can be copy-kitted.
No, that's, yeah, stolen, basically, if you will.
And 3DS, it can just be like duplicated,
But, you know, this whole web free thing
that we have now with blockchain
and traceability of assets and verification
allows for this to be even approached
to answer one of the issues that David brought up,
it allows for revenue participation
in for the game studios of the different worlds.
So if IP becomes interoperable,
it does not at all mean that it's free for the game.
So if let's say a sword goes from game A to B,
the sword is moved into game B,
doesn't need to mean that there's no benefit
in this for game B outside of the aesthetic.
There can certainly be rewards
and participation in financial gain as well,
because everything can be on the track
and automized on-chain, which is cool.
Yeah, no, I think like everything being on-chain
is definitely going to help just like kind of push things forward.
But I want to pass it over to Easy.
I kind of want to hear your guys' thoughts on this as well.
How important do you feel that interoperability
and isn't necessary for every digital asset
to kind of be interoperable?
I think that's a, if you make everything into,
ah, man, I'm struggling too, interoperable.
It's just going to dilute the value of that functionality.
You only want the, like what's been said previously,
you only want the most valuable assets,
like maybe the one-of-ones from this game
to be ported over to another game.
And then because that one-of-one is desirable,
it makes the interoperability aspect of it more valuable
and people will appreciate it more.
If we allow the interoperability to be done so easily,
it could even dilute the assets of the game
that's accepting the IP of another game.
So I would say, yes, let's do interoperability.
This collaborative thing is very web 3, right?
We're all in this space together.
We're all going to make it together.
And there's definitely space for different types of games,
even if everybody's in the same genre.
We have COD, Call of Duty, we have PUBG,
we have, you know, Fortnite,
we have all these different shooter games.
They do things differently.
And, you know, Fortnite is a champion in interoperability
because they have, they adopt IP
from all sorts of different sources
and it seems to be a very good thing.
And so, yeah, I'm very much looking forward to one day
when web 3 games can be just as popular
and just as innovative as web 2.
I really do love that, man.
I want to pass it over to Victory Point.
I'm sorry, because I realized you guys had your hand up
and I want to kind of introduce you guys
into the conversation before we wrap it up here.
I'm the PR lead and co-founder over here at Victory Point.
And just as Eazy just said,
mentioning first-person shooters, that's what we are.
That's what we are bringing to this web 3 world.
And I think, you know, I'm just hopping out of one meeting,
just catching the tail end of this conversation.
But I think you said the question is, you know,
what is the role of interoperability in the metaverse?
And I don't think you have a metaverse
until you have interoperable assets.
You know, you might have a game here,
you might have a game there,
but, you know, each individual game as itself,
I don't believe is a metaverse.
I don't feel like I'm being disconnected from the world
that I am in, this IRL life.
And, you know, you think of the life
that we're experiencing right now, IRL.
You know, I am fully immersed in this universe
I can take items, I can take assets from my house,
I can bring them to work, I can take items from my work
and bring them to another place of work.
That's interoperability in the metaverse
And we don't have that in the gaming world right now.
And I don't think we have a metaverse
because we don't have that level of interoperability.
But once we have that level of interoperability,
I believe we'll be that much closer to the metaverse.
And maybe you could say the gaming world,
web two and web three as a whole,
that is its own metaverse.
And, you know, these individual games,
those are locations within this gaming metaverse.
But again, at the end of the day, I don't,
for me, there's not much value to gaming
when I can only spend my time and energy
and focus on one game at a time.
I was part of a space just prior to this
with Particle, Inc. and Keisha from Particle, Inc.
mentioned that it feels so horrible to spend your time,
to spend your effort and to get so connected with one game
and then see your friends playing another game
and progress in another game
and leave you completely behind.
I wanna see a time in this gaming metaverse
where my assets that are unlocked in one game
can be transferable, can unlock things in another game
so I don't feel disconnected, I don't feel left behind.
And I do feel that I can spend time in the games
that I know and love while still keeping up
with my friends who are playing the games they know and love.
There's a level of connection there
that is not present at this very moment in time,
but I believe that's what we're all here for.
That's what Web3 Gaming is all about,
is about this interoperable future.
I don't feel like it is truly a metaverse.
But yeah, that's me, that's my thoughts on the subject
and hopefully you guys are some Call of Duty junkies
out there who wanna play some victory point with me.
We're getting close to our alpha, man.
I've been saying it for years, but it's almost there.
And I hope you guys are excited to check it out like I am.
But thank you for joining, allowing me to join.
Thank you for joining, man.
You're coming through to the end
where you come in with some hot takes
and I really love that, man.
Actually, I think the other Dave had his hands up,
so I wanna go over to you, man,
and then we'll go over to Colano.
So the, I just, sorry, I lost my train of thought.
I took a little bit of umbrage with the idea
that Web3 isn't going to have
or doesn't currently have anything on the scale
So we're definitely aiming for the AAA level of quality,
even though we're working on a lesser budget for the moment.
But we're combining things like action RPG elements
with Escape from Tarkov kind of play
and in a top-down shooter.
And it's definitely impressive how far we've gotten so far
and we're definitely going to go a lot better
and by the time we get to beta,
it's gonna be an amazing game.
In terms of interoperability, the, can we call it IOP?
That's what I was thinking.
In terms of IOP, the main thing that I want to see
is that set of standards that is basically published
and everyone adheres to or agrees to adhere to.
Like we need everyone agreeing on that set of standards
this is what it looks like in Unity,
this is what it looks like in Unreal.
And so that when we transition these items between things,
we don't have to think too much about it.
Once we have the set of standards,
I believe that a metaverse is more possible.
And then it's just about what is that space
in between all these games.
And my big fear is that everyone wants to try and own it
and as a result, they will all conflict with each other
and no one will gravitate towards any particular one
or the one that they do gravitate towards
will try to hoard that space and thus ruin it for everyone.
We just need it to be free for everyone,
very easy for anyone to do,
just like the World Wide Web is right now.
Man, no, that's awesome, man.
I think we have a couple of hands up,
so I want to go over to them
before we wrap it up here, Kalano, my brother, take it away.
Yeah, just wanted to follow up on Victory Point's point,
I guess, and it's around the current metaverse we have
or we don't have, I guess,
which I thought was a pretty relevant question.
And I guess maybe I'm going to formulate
that as a question to you.
Do you think we should have an open metaverse
governed by nobody where everybody could be building
their games or, I guess, incorporate their games?
would that metaverse be having too much power?
I guess I'm asking that to you, Victory.
Yeah, I was going to say,
fasted over to Victory, I think that's for you guys.
My apologies, I was a little distracted
at the time that you were asking that question,
but hopefully I did understand it.
Would a decentralized metaverse have too much power?
Trying to organize my thoughts here the best I can,
but again, we live in a metaverse right here right now
and everyone has their own opinions,
everyone has their own say to guide us ultimately
hopefully the direction of progression.
And I don't think you could have too much power
in a metaverse if it was decentralized.
If that was your question, hopefully I'm on track.
Yeah, because it's the same thing
when we talk about digital ID, for example,
and who is going to host that data?
Who's going to be behind the company,
It's a really good thing in concept,
but in practicality, it is either super dangerous
or super promising, but if it goes left,
we're all in the shitter, basically.
So I kind of have the same feeling
about an open metaverse that everybody could join
where they could all incorporate the games.
That would be, and I put brackets, but you can't see it.
I'm in my own metaverse here
that would be completely decentralized.
Right, I think what you mean is,
all this data has to be stored somewhere on servers.
Something has to be processing all of this meta
versus power, something's got to be processing it.
And right now, you kind of got centralized entities
that control that, where they have too much power.
Absolutely, I think as of right now, they would.
But if we decentralize it,
if we give the power to the gamers,
there are some platforms out there.
There are some people who are tackling this situation
where they're giving the power to the gamers,
where they're allowing the gamers
to unlock the rest of their CPU or GPU power
to allow them to have a little bit of control,
a little bit of processing power
within the metaverse that they're currently a part of.
Yeah, I think as of right now,
the metaverse would be controlled by one entity.
And I think that one entity
would have too much control and power.
We would have to decentralize
and give the power to the gamers,
before we really enter that world of a metaverse,
that other world that we're all looking forward
to entering at some point in time.
And that's going to be, man,
that's going to be quite a process.
That's going to be a lot of undertaking.
But I think that's necessary to have an actual metaverse.
Because just imagine, again,
going back to the IRL experience right here, right now,
all of us conscious being in this group chat in x.com,
We are in the real world, the IRL world.
What if there is one central entity
that is controlling our consciousness right now
that could just unplug it at any moment in time?
But if these consciousness were divided
amongst many different servers
and many different places to process
what it is that we're experiencing,
Hopefully that analogy made sense.
But yeah, I'm on the same track as you.
I think right now might not be the best time
to open the doors to a single metaverse,
just simply because, again,
one entity is going to be controlling that, absolutely.
There are solutions in place for decentralized storage.
Filecoin, IPFS, you have R-Wave.
The problem is that they're all not capable yet
to store gigantic amounts of data
and transition them in very efficient, timely manner.
But eventually the tech will get there
and then combined with some potentially local storage
that people are rewarded for.
You can certainly set up something decentralized
where also the data is decentralized
and then maybe rewards to people
So I think it is possible,
but it's definitely hard to set up on multiple level.
Man, Dave, you came in here hot, man.
You came in making the right questions, brother.
But I want to actually, before we wrap it up here,
I want to go to the hands.
And if we could keep it short,
because I think we're about five minutes out,
but I want to go to IQ and the metaverse
and then we'll wrap it up there.
I'm loving the discussion.
A part of me just wants to sit back
and hear what you guys got to say.
But yeah, I guess just to add to the conversation,
the original question was,
how important is interoperability to you in a Web3 game?
Is it necessary for every digital asset?
Personally, I don't think it's the top priority,
but as someone who is a gamer,
and I'm definitely a big fan of interoperability,
it's definitely something I would love to see.
I don't think it's necessary to answer the question,
but I definitely do think that's what gives Web3 games
an edge, and I think definitely seeing the metaverse.
You know, I recently watched Ready Player One,
the Oasis, and just the idea of having the accessibility
between games and being able to use these assets
in and out of different games,
I think is something that the blockchain helps facilitate
in a world where Web2 games doesn't have that infrastructure.
I definitely think it's a great idea.
Then the question does become around some points
You know, is it too much power?
How could we make this decentralized?
These are all different things
that definitely need to be asked.
And shout out to Dave from Victory Point.
I also love what Style Protocol had to say.
But you know, without hogging the stage too much here,
I definitely think it's definitely something
and definitely something I'd love to see more
and create this open world where assets are interoperable
in between different metaverses.
And who knows, maybe that would lead
to having one main metaverse.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
That's a whole other question,
but definitely in favor of it.
Don't think it's necessary, that's for sure,
and something I'd love to see more.
I know we're almost at the top of the hour,
so I wanna give a chance for everyone else.
Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man.
I'm gonna go straight to the other verse
and then we'll wrap it up there.
Hey guys, yeah, it's funny.
I raised my hand before we got to all these solutions
because I was gonna ask designer Dave
what he thought his solution was
to fully decentralizing the metaverse,
but it seems like everyone's throwing their hat
Just wanna leave it with this.
We've been thinking a lot about this
because decentralization is super key.
Democratization is super key, we believe, in metaverse.
And we've been tossing around the idea
which we're actually putting together
a digital bill of rights.
So putting our heads together,
I'd love to connect with all of you guys
and get your take on the digital bill of rights
for a decentralized metaverse
and for individual users,
giving them actual bill of rights in a virtual space.
Go ahead, Dave, we'll keep it short here.
Blockchain is a bunch of different machines
working on problems with GPUs.
We have the ability to make a blockchain
that is completely decentralized.
Like it's already the tech is that.
We just need to have the standards.
It is, I mean, if AWS went down today,
the entire blockchain would go down
because it's ultimately reliant on AWS at the moment.
So it is centralized in a sense
because of where the nodes reside.
It's not fully decentralized yet.
We're working on it like, you know,
like style protocol said, but we're not there yet.
Well, if you could release something where like,
I could run it on my machine for some payout.
No, thank you Dave for answering that, man.
I want to go over to you, Leo, man,
before we wrap it up here,
any final thoughts, any final words?
And you know, I want to thank everybody
for coming through, but Leo, take it away, my brother.
Thanks everyone for coming and joining the discussion.
I hope for the ones that are not on stage
and listening was insightful.
Thank you Juan for helping me co-host
or honestly taking the lead pretty much
because I'm not that talkative when I don't need to be.
There's a couple of games here, builders, founders.
If you think that this interoperability thing
is something you want to explore to some degree,
feel free to reach out to us.
It doesn't need to be every asset,
we think it would make sense.
We have the IP connected to our protocol
from pretty much all the blue chips at this point,
as a piece for next, I don't know,
board, so many, penguins, pudgies.
If you want to see them in your world for your players,
Yeah, thank you, Leo, for those final words, man.
And I want to thank everybody for coming through.
Salamander, both Dave's, IQ, Colano, Otherverse.
Easy, man, I really appreciate everybody coming through.
And I'm excited we got to the conversation here.
But I think we'll wrap it up there.
Leo, thanks for hosting, my man.
And I want to, yeah, I just want to finish it off there.
You guys have a great rest of your day and night,
And we'll be back next Tuesday, 12 p.m. EST.
I'm looking forward to seeing you guys there.