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🚨 SUI, SOL, DOGE, ETH, BTC - How ETFs are changing crypto 🚨
Recorded: May 8, 2025 Duration: 1:21:01Space Recording
Short Summary
The conversation delves into the transformative impact of ETFs on the crypto landscape, highlighting trends of institutional adoption, potential growth in the Web3 space, and the evolving relationship between traditional finance and digital assets.
Full Transcription
The Thank you. Music Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. so
good morning everyone this is Justin Roberti how are you today with when alt season spaces
we come at you every Thursday around 12 noon Eastern time 4 p.m UTC to talk about uh any number of things and this week we're talking about the growing importance
and role of etf co for those who are not uh you know on uh who are not up to date with what etfs
are necessarily like essentially dudes this is a matter of taking bitcoin first and then ethereum
came next i don't think ethereum has been approved yet. I'll have
to look at it. I've got a list of 25 ETFs in front of me. I was going to read into those a little bit
where essentially they can present through traditional brokers. They can present exposure
to Bitcoin, exposure to Ethereum. Now they're looking at doing solana they're looking doing trump
bonk uh you know there's so many out there right now a sui that was another one that that caught
my attention made me think of doing this show really uh doge you know looking to make essentially
traditional um instruments traditional financial instruments that you can access through a
traditional broker and then exposure to crypto why does that matter to us why does that matter
to the average degen listening at home because this invites literally millions millions upon
millions i honestly don't really know the other 93 of the investing world, because at best, the crypto world constitutes
about 7% of investors are willing to go there. Now we can get to the other 93% on their 401ks
or any other traditional investing that they're doing. So it's a big deal, folks. That much money
coming into the space is going to change the space itself. It's going to change the Web3 space
over the next three years
that's what we're here to talk about today so let me go ahead and start if you are going to be a
speaker by the way or if you're supposed to be a speaker please go ahead and uh put in a speaking
request so that we can see you if i send you a speaking invite you won't always see it so please put in a request because
that way we can make sure to pick you up from the crowd thank you to everyone for uh coming in today
all right um this is going to be awesome all right folks let's go over to uh my good friends at TSFC
TSFC welcome for uh to uh to the show. Thanks for coming today. How are you?
Hello, hello.
Thank you for inviting me.
We are good.
We are pretty good.
So I know that you're pretty up on a, you know, kind of that 10,000 foot view on the market. Yeah.
How do you look at spot BTC and ETH ETFs,
you know, are they reshaping institutional assets
at access to digital assets?
Oh, it's a really good question about ETFs.
Of course, it's like a cornerstone of traditional finance,
but their entry into crypto world
makes significant evolution.
How we interact with these digital
assets for example a big change with crypto ETFs it make buying crypto very easy for retail investors
in United States in Canada before to buy Bitcoin you need to create digital bullet learn about security learn about buy it binance this stuff and right now you can just found uh
ticker in your bank account and buy it directly of course one also interesting point is uh
taxation tip because uh crypto etfs use a special method called in-kind transactions that regular crypto exchange doesn't have.
This helps to ETFs be more tax efficient for long-term investors because the ETF itself
rarely need to sell crypto and create taxable events.
And of course, it gives easy access and easy access brings new people to crypto and both
regular people and big companies who didn't
want to buy crypto before i think uh it's also positive for uh government it made governments
create new rule faster but it's tricky more but about market effects because for example we can see a different shape after etfs approved for bitcoin
and ethereum for example and i think uh it's good for the industry whole for the whole interest
industry but for it it's not affect to the market directly right definitely you know yeah that's a
great summary and although i mean you're right that definitely at this point, folks, ETFs, they're kind of like a wrapper around any other asset. But ETFs themselves are only about, I think, 20 years old. You know, as I was talking to Grayscale, where they were getting their BTC ETF approved, I was talking to their ETF guy who was one of the guys who was kind of part of
the original movement. So ETFs are already kind of an innovation in the space and in the traditional
finance space. And now it's being applied to digital assets. Let me go over to, let's go over
to Komodo. Let's go over to Polly from Komodo and talk about you know how is this changing access
to liquidity how is this affecting liquidity how is it affecting price stability to have you know
billions of intentional of of uh additional investors available and presumably much much
more money like the real big money from institutional investors yes uh so yeah hell uh hello everyone
oh sorry yeah are you there yeah yeah can you hear me yeah i can hear you go ahead
all right sorry um so yeah there's a ton of liquidity flowing in the space. I mean, I'm sure everyone has been, you know, had their eye on at some point the happenings of BlackRock and their BTC ETF song.
You know, there's a dozen or so other major ones out there as well.
And, you know, for sure has, you know, brought a lot of new money into the space, money that sitting on the sidelines and kind of was stopped because of the regulatory constraints that a lot of these like brokerage firms and hedge funds and such have.
You know, but but now the floodgates have opened and and we're seeing, you know, massive interest.
and we're seeing massive interest.
But one of the things that has been kind of,
at least to me, a little concerning is that
we're seeing these smaller ETFs now.
I believe a Solana ETF just launched.
A bunch of other ones are launching or planning on too,
but we haven't seen that the same kind of interest now
um you know flow you know in terms of money flowing into into the smaller etfs um now this
i don't think it's a huge cause for concern um but it just i i think it should temper our
expectations on how this financial instrument will affect, especially like altcoins.
Sure.
You know, in terms of, you know, stabilizing the market, the ETFs typically when someone initiates like a sell, you know, of their assets and then the, you know the etf then liquidates the underlying asset
it's typically not done during the same day um and they they have a typically a window of time
period for them to actually sell that asset so they in case of say like a uh small flash crash
or something where you know bitcoin or whatever falls like five percent they
don't have and you know people start panic selling their their shares in the etf they don't have to
actually sell the bitcoin right away like they they can't until things stabilize and you know
and not you know that gives them some control over um you know the market in the sense that it's not
over um you know the market in the sense that it's not they have the ability to not
compound uh you know problems that might arise and get right for them you know themselves and
their customers right of course you know when the etfs first happened i think we were talking like
oh i see i i think it was like january february last year is fairly early in the year if i'm not
mistaken yeah we didn't get the immediate lift in btc price i mean here's here's what's interesting
to talk about folks it's not just a matter of um you know how it's controlling capital flow how it
could potentially affect prices but like over on the et side, it affects our side of the fence very much too.
I mean, honestly, the second that, you know, you've got like a Pricewaterhouse or Fidelity
or whatever, you know, adding these to, adding BTC and ETH to people's retirement funds,
like, man, I don't even know what that's going to do to the price. We're going to have so many holders and then we're going to have huge, I like to call them megafauna, like megalithic
whales, looking for a better name because megalithic actually implies large stone, but still
you get the general visualization there. Megalithic whales, whales, the scale of which we have yet to
see where people are holding billions upon billions
worth of bitcoin which is already you know happening with like uh grayscale's bitcoin trust
just to do a quick uh you know gauge set here right now we've got 10 approved etfs we've got
blackrock fidelity grayscale arc 21 and van eck all in on bitcoin we've got grayscale i shares fidelity and van
ek all approved on ethereum those are all approved and existing but what's interesting to note is
that since then the enthusiasm has continued van x van ek has filed for solana so has 21 shares so has bitwise xrp is looking to do an
xrp etf canary capital is doing xrp grayscale is doing xrp uh litecoin by canary capital
litecoin by grayscale grayscale is pretty much just in on everything i really we need to get them
back on the show they were great last year We did a lot of great interviews with them.
Dogecoin by RecShares.
Dogecoin by Grayscale.
Again, Dogecoin by Bitwise.
Trump MemeCoin has applied for its own ETF.
Bonk has applied for its own ETF.
And now Canary Capital is doing one for Sui and for Pengu.
So that was a speed run through the 25 10 approved uh bitcoin and eth etfs
and 15 applied for so you know going over to i want to go to chuck from polyflow chuck welcome
to the show thanks for coming on thank you justin thank you for inviting me uh just a little about
myself uh 15 years in the top 10 investment bank so this is kind of my bread and butter uh-huh talk a little i i think i want to take a little step
back i don't know how sophisticated we are here all the listeners but etf here stands for exchange
traded funds right so the key word here to focus on is fund a fund is likely um for the whole point
of etfs to start was for folks to be able to get price exposure
for particular stocks, for particular industries.
There are many industries, ETFs that are focused on, you know, be it natural resources or mining
or utilities, many of those and the like.
And now coming on with a crypto specific ETFf most folks focusing specifically on the big two right
ethereum or uh bitcoin are you still with us chuck can you hear me did chuck cut out for everybody
else or just for me we i can hear chuck i can hear him too oh i'm sorry go ahead chuck i uh
yeah for some reason i couldn't hear you hey. Hey, sorry. Maybe it's my speakers here.
But either way, the point is that most of the folks who are buying ETFs are very different from, you know, maybe DGNs out here investing in cryptocurrency.
The folks who are buying ETFs have a very specific need, and that is in terms of diversification.
So, you know, we are going to get a lot of
liquidity into this market. We are going to get a lot of folks interested in buying into the crypto
ETS, but the way that they're buying into it is to diversify their portfolio. So the way that
they're looking at things are often very different, not only for that differentiation, but they're
also buying for convenience so that they don't have to go out and get a wallet and buy the
specific assets on chain. And they also are there for portions of regulatory safety essentially.
So these are the main three things that I can see folks buying into the ETFs that we
have out here. I think that's very different from how a lot of folks that are
on the call or just regular investors in crypto is actually going in and buying these particular
assets. Do you have the thing that I go ahead? You know, what I'm wondering, though, Chuck,
since you have a strong TradFi background, you know, there are a raft of assumptions that go along
with an ETF. People are assuming that the, you know, the ETFs were originally applied to like
bonds, gold shares, United States oil fund, iShares and Silver Trust, you know, really stable kinds of commodities, bonds,
like I said, you know, very price stable kinds of things and very, I think it would be fair
to say vetted from a regulatory point of view.
So I'm not sure if Bitcoin, if only by the power of being so new, really fits this same level of regulatory
rigor that we're talking about here, not in the U.S.
It's kind of too new as a commodity.
You know, do you think that we are, you know, potentially like our traditional investors
going to be misled by this ETF wrapping in some ways?
Are we being premature with this
um i don't know if we're technically being premature uh but uh you're absolutely correct
the etf rapture here does definitely mask uh some of the underlying risk right so i mean i'm not
saying any of the uh uh the etf uh the approved or non-approved ETF assets are going to rug pull.
God forbid anybody can rug pull Solana or Sui or Bitcoin or Ethereum, right?
But the idea is as more and more of these cryptocurrencies or coins, meme coins, whatever,
that as they submit for the ETFs and as the regulatory powers approve them, you know, it doesn't actually save anybody from rug pulls.
It doesn't save anybody from any sorts of Oracle exploits or smart contract bugs, you know, or any sort of protocol governance attacks that may happen on the specific asset themselves. So it doesn't actually prevent the investors
or prevent them from being exposed to any of these risks. What it does have is that ETFs
have a very standard set of recovery methodologies through insurance, through whichever ones
the custodians and the broker dealers are dealing with you know the recovery method is a
little more clear whereas you know if you were talking you invest directly into a cryptocurrency
the recovery method for something happened is really you know that's anybody's guess right but
for etf it's a little bit easier now whether you can recover or not that's a whole different story
right you know that that's a great point i mean certainly folks we talk about bitcoin we talk about ethereum you know not financial advice
none of this is just a bunch of people talking here not financial advice to those of you at home
but it's easy for me to imagine how bitcoin and ethereum yeah relatively safe bets in my opinion
like you know i think i mean we just had a show about Ethereum yesterday.
It was brilliant.
I would love to go listen to it.
If you go to my Twitter account.
But we'll have to do Ethereum again soon because they just did a new release yesterday.
But I can see how those are pretty solid.
I don't think that the bottom will drop out of either one of them anytime soon, unless it is everywhere else in the economy.
drop out of either one of them anytime soon, unless it is everywhere else in the economy.
But when we talk about getting into like Trump coin, I mean, not that it's approved, but a
Trump coin ETF, we're talking like there are other, I don't think there have been applications
filed, but there are groups talking about doing like a mixed portfolio of meme coins
and meme coins.
Of course, Bonk wants to do its own etf hey i get
where they're coming from i mean to bonk i believe this would be validating but is it really in the
spirit of what etfs are supposed to be in the first place i mean hell before solana became the
home of meme coins in general and i love the meme coin movement if uh you're out there
salama or whoever else might be in the audience takes and saw you're all over the tweets you know
a request to speak and i'll bring on up if you want to come talk about etfs so i love meme coins
i'm not trying to throw any shade about them but by their very nature they are a volatile investment. So like, do they even belong in the ETF wrapper?
And I'm going to go over to BearTracks.
You know, you're on the D side,
D5 side of things.
I'll go over to you deep in Jesus right after this
from IoTeX.
But let me go over to BearTracks.
You know, for that matter,
that matter philosophically speaking from your point of view because this is a matter of opinion
philosophically speaking,
from your point of view,
because this is a matter of opinion,
if i if i buy uh into the grayscale bitcoin trust etf i have exposure to uh you know this it is a
spot etf and i have the spot price on bitcoin i have exposure to that price but do i own any bitcoin
i mean not really right only in the Vegas sense
What about not my keys not my crypto? What do you think man?
BM BM firstly, thank you for having me on appreciate the chance to
Chill out with you guys and talk to you
Yeah, we're a DeFi protocol. So I think you know what my answer is gonna be but actually
You know, I might spin it the other way as well so i think as many people should own their crypto as they can and if you don't you sort
of don't you know have crypto you sort of get rid of the purpose and it's now back to being a
centralized uh fully regulated asset um which i don't think is anyone can agree is the spirit of
crypto um i will say this though i will say this um it's
excellent to have it as an option to normalize bitcoin purchasing and including bitcoin in
portfolio and um making it this part of assets that anyone can hold easily in systems that they
can recognize because wallets are difficult and managing your private keys is difficult
uh like in fact like our whole platform
one of the selling points is like we're all about abstraction because we think wallets are might be
difficult so we'll have pass keys for example so we try to abstract away the wallet but what we like
we think in the end people should actually own their crypto at the bottom layer um but that does
come with its problems and i can see why everyone wouldn't want that.
Right.
So it's great for options.
Um, but you know, the DFI DJ in me is hoping that we'll find a way to
let everyone own their keys at the end of the day.
But you know, we're, we're a ways away from that.
Right.
Well, this is letting a bunch of trad fi investors in through the door.
I mean, don't you think that's going
to change the space ultimately? Like what happens when the Bitcoin ETFs really take off over the
next five, 10 years, gain mainstream institutional acceptance. So as I keep saying, end up in
people's trust funds, end up in people's 401 uh 401ks you know really kind of rolled out on a
national basis i'm going to go over to uh deep in jesus from iotech you know what what we're looking
at there is um a very different uh assortment of who constitutes the crypto buying audience right
like aren't we in a way giving away the thing that we built to TradFi?
Hey, Justin, thanks for having me. This is Stephen Jesus from iTex, as you said, head of DevRel. Yes, we are. Short answer. But at the same time, it's conflicting. And I'm sharing
my opinion. I have conflicting. I don't have like a one sided opinion on this because on one hand, it's about exposure for,
let's say our industry.
So it is great that this is happening.
More people are talking about it.
It's getting more institutionalized and ETFs basically do represent exposure.
I don't think the whole conversation on is it safer or is this like a false sense of security
because i i think it's about just exposing people who want to take on the risk because even though
as it was said before the wrapper is more regulated the underlying asset is not so right
in terms of exposure it's good in terms of, we're letting TreadFi just like entering the door of what we've built.
It's a little bit sad in a way as a purist.
But at the same time, I do echo what BetterCharts was saying.
everybody should own their crypto should own their keys but if we do really want the industry to
Everybody should own their crypto, should own their keys.
take off really take off and like you were saying at the beginning when you introduced the episode
maybe the you said the 93 percent of the rest of the investors out there do have exposure if we do want crypto to actually go mainstream in i think it's a step that we need to take
right no definitely i was definitely bullish on it happening i expected to have more of a price
impact than it had when it happened short term but i think it is really going to it's really
going to change things long term chuck i want to come back over to you, but I haven't spoken to T-Row yet.
So let me go over to T-Row from, from gaming boom, you know, T-Row,
it's interesting you guys being on the game five side of things.
So in the DeFi space, of course, you're already sort of walking,
threading that needle with an audience that,
that is sort of a crossover audience, right? What is your take on ETFs?
And what about managing risk, man? As I was alluding to, I noticed when, I forget whether
it was Polly who said this before, but when he was using examples of ETFs, it's very easy to
start with Bitcoin because I don't think anyone's going to get you know too upset about bitcoin i think bitcoin makes sense to everybody more or less but um what about uh
doge what about bonk what about trump coin you know like uh what about suey like are we as confident
about being able to protect value there what about soul before soul became the home of mean coins
the only time i ever wrote about soul
when i was doing the news beat for benzinga was uh when they were having downtime like the soul
was kind of a little bummer of an outfit before uh before mean coins came along uh go ahead to
your road uh jump on in what what's what's your thoughts on that man how are uh does this are our
trad fi investor friends going to be inadvertently tricked out of this i
agree that it's a step toward mainstreaming but is it possible we give the industry a black eye out
of this yep um so i'll go through the talking about like a little bit on like like altcoins and
i think um generally i think we're already there and like we've got like building for seoul
like xrp ltc and like now dude and now like dodge from and like other points but i mean like
um like like if this has like a trigger of vibes that it's apparently etf working like worthy now
it feels less like financial like innovation and more like etf
mean season you know what i'm saying um i think this is like uh yeah this is this like slips like
super really slow like you start with like blue chip particles like um soul and maybe even xrp
and then like all of a sudden you're like picking like packaging frock tokens and
political means into regulated product so what's happened which is like everything start looking
the same like serious projects get thrown into the same basket as literal jokes i'm saying and um
you know what i'm saying and um also i think um that that dilutes the brand value as well um
so like now when someone says like soul edf retail might wonder if another me popped
not like in layer one with like real attack it's increased like it increased like incredibly and reduce reduce like credibility and
blurs the line between the utility and entertainment right and also um here's like a kicker it's like
everything has an edf and the odf matters right you and like we fought the market with too many flavors and none of them were steak and the
impact of anyone listing price wise perception no sorry uh perception wise just gets weaker and
and lastly i want to say um it's cool that crypto is getting mainstream exposure and above like if
we turn everything all into an etf right we're just like building the wet
three versions of junk bonds you know what i'm saying like yeah that's my thought right no no
you're right about that and man honestly what space knows about price volatility more than the
gaming space i was being regaled yesterday semi against my will about the uh about the market around um dlc uh
and like stuff cover or not actually wasn't dlc it's it's uh skins for like weapons and counter
strike and the insane market that's around that you know it's easy for i feel like crypto likes
to act like it doesn't have its roots in gaming.
But I'm here to tell you folks, at least from this guy's point of view, that the first crypto really was in-game gold for World of Warcraft.
It was being mined by Steve Bannon and Brock Pierce in, you know, bunkers in China, essentially.
They had people playing around the clock.
And that was, you know, and then selling it on a secondary market. And now that sort of thing's
happening with DLC. It's happening with, you know, loot boxes and rare skins coming out of that.
And they get, there's a crazy amount of volatility, like volatility, more like a collector's market,
right, which is the very extremity of things that can go very much up and very much down.
Alan, I'm glad that we got you on.
We got Alan here from UPXI.
Alan, come on.
Glad to have you.
And talking about ETFs.
So, you know, how do you think that the average traditional consumer, of course, it's great to see mainstreaming.
What somebody said earlier that this is definitely evidence of mainstreaming.
And I completely agree.
Mainstreaming is here.
We've got ETFs.
We've got the U.S. president talking about crypto.
How much more mainstream do we want to get?
We want to get investors in, of course.
But are these investors, you know, prepared do we want to get? We want to get investors in, of course.
But are these investors prepared for the level of volatility? It's easy to defend Bitcoin. It'd be pretty easy to defend Ethereum. But when we start looking at Trumpcoin and Bonk ETS,
which are applied for right now, but not approved, or SU even or SOL, you know, is it the same level
of, uh, of thing or are we suggesting, you know, a level of stability and also of, um,
of regulatory structure around them that, that's, is not there for, for these assets the same way
they would be for traditional assets like bonds.
Well, thanks for having me.
I mean, you know, from UPEXI's point of view, we just raised the $100 million to create our whole sole strategy.
Right. You know, we want to hold it on the balance sheet.
balance sheet. I mean, MicroStrategy's laid out a theory, you know, four years ago. And since then,
I mean, MicroStrategy's laid out a theory, you know, four years ago.
no one has returned more capital to shareholders or value than their strategy. I personally,
we put Sol ahead of some of the other ones as close to Ethereum and Bitcoin, you know, as
obviously that's our position on that. But I think in general for us, like we look at it like
you can buy an ETF, they don't own any of it.
But for companies like for companies like us that are going to continue to acquire it and hopefully use that multiple to have to grow shareholder value. It does give them like some sense that they actually do own the coin inside the token inside the equity.
And you still like as much as as much as, you know, we want the industry to be as pure as possible.
As much as we want the industry to be as pure as possible, if we don't help bridge the people who are never going to open a Coinbase account to bring them into the industry, and then they own something in this and they become more familiar with it, then they branch back out and feel more comfortable buying it. especially in the public markets that start to do what MicroStrategies did.
And hopefully they do it in Ethereum and hopefully they do it in things that really make sense and have an opportunity. But just imagine the amount of investors that can come in through an equity rather than just buying the token or Bitcoin or Ethereum individually.
We think that exposure is great for us. It's great for the industry. It's great for investors. It's a path to, to,
to more clarity for everybody. Okay. Sure. I agree with that. So do you think that the NFT,
you know, right now it seems almost fashionable to be putting in applications for NFTs. I read
off a complete list of those that have been filed but not
approved we've got pengu suey bonk trump dogecoin cardano litecoin xrp and then of course soul
ethereum and bitcoin um you know you think it's a net positive even when we when we get into uh
more volatile assets like bonk and Trump?
Yeah, I'm not so sure.
Yeah, I'm not so sure I agree with the Trump and the bonk stuff.
But I'll leave that to the, you know, I don't want to rain on any way else's parade.
But I still do think that overall, and that's up to the regulators, where they decide, you know,
and that's going to be good for the industry.
Where do they decide that this is too much but historically you know it goes it goes
one swings too far the other way and then it comes back the other way and as far as volatility goes
i mean as we've seen in the last four weeks if you're even a regular stock owner i mean you wake
up one day and google's down 13 so was it really worth was it worth was it worth what it was worth
yesterday is it worth what it is today so i mean the whole market including all equities have become like bonkers
with with the amount of volatility so i don't think i don't think the volatility for for crypto
is much worse um than this stuff anymore yeah yeah i mean i guess it's true i mean look at tesla
yeah like a tesla be being uh evaluated at a 10 rate, which is like higher than other tech companies
just because they argued that it should be so.
You know, it isn't just the story
of a single bad car bring Tesla down.
I feel like there's an adjustment happening
because there was too much speculation,
not financial advice.
That's just Justin's opinion.
And I'm not an expert, but by the way,
go ahead and follow all of these good people.
We've got lots of smart people on the panel today.
Feel free to follow me too.
My, uh, Twitter account that I had for 18 years was hijacked on, on Sunday.
And I was very sad.
So now I'm on an alt, but, uh, you feel free to go ahead and follow that.
Let me go back over to Chuck.
Cause you had your hand up before.
You know, how do you think this is going to change the face of the investor? I'm talking about like next year, maybe the next three years. Right now, like the crypto investor is very immediate.
They're, you know, on the one hand, full of enthusiasm. On the other hand, you know,
Full of enthusiasm on the other hand, you know, uh, notably impatient compared to even other investors.
Uh, like we are looking for short-term gains and everything, you know, are we, uh, it, are we seeing the end of the DGENs or are the DGENs going to be marginalized compared to, uh, all the Trad5 people pouring in.
And are these investors going to appreciate the core values that have formed our space like decentralization?
Speaking from just the volume side of TradFi versus let's say crypto finance reinvesting, we're going to get washed over.
washed over. If truly institutions are actually fully on adopting, investing into various
cryptocurrencies, the degen is going to become a very small part of the overall investment,
because just based on size alone, retail versus institution, it's not even a comparison.
Right.
So the thing is, it really depends on whether institutions are actually willing to adopt.
Because most institutions, when they're looking at the cryptocurrencies, they're still viewing
cryptocurrencies just as another asset, be it a stock or bond.
Maybe it's a highly rated stock, like, or Bitcoin, maybe consider a nice,
safe investment, relatively, versus a particular meme coin. I mean, if they haven't, because none
of the cryptocurrencies can actually be listed on an exchange, or a traditional exchange, that is.
So that's why they're doing this ETF wrappers, right? So the etf really it's a fund it's a whole bunch of
investors buying shares into this fund which then takes that money to buy into whichever particular
underlying asset that we're looking to buy and in our case you know bitcoin or ethereum or any other
ones that might be approved right so so in this particular case, the institution and the folks out there in the Tradify world, they don't care to actually own the asset.
They just care to own the pricing exposure to that particular asset.
So that is actually very different from, let's say, the DJs and your native crypto investors, where they're looking for utility, where they're looking for,
you know, the actual, the actual community and the actual game to play, right? But where as
institutional investors, I don't think it's there's going to be much change, they're still
going to be investing into these ETFs, just as a way to diversify their portfolio. And in terms of,
you know, whether we're going to make a ding on them or not, some people
might be dinged if they happen to have that particular risk profile and they want to say,
hey, I want that exposure to the meme coins that somehow get into an ETF, then they are prepared
for that. But most investors, and then we're talking about or folks who might be putting this into 401ks
their risk exposure uh their risk profile is not going to be the ones that's going to dabble into
your meme coin etfs so you know i think uh from the investor's perspective there really isn't
going to be much change in terms of their profile right yeah i Yeah. I see what you mean. I mean, that's assuming that the investors in question know what they're getting. What I'm suggesting
is what about a dynamic where essentially I'm looking at my 401k, I've got this high risk
digital assets portfolio arm over here, which could include ETFs of like some people are talking about,
I don't see if there's an application for, but doing like a combined balance portfolio,
if you could call it balance, of meme coins, right? Or maybe you want to go all in on Bonk
or Suey or something like that. My the uh that the investor may not necessarily know
what they're getting into but you know another thing which is more of an existential crisis
for our space i spent some time talking to a core dev yesterday who was from you know had worked
with ethereum foundation um and we were talking about solana's rise and whether Solana was going to, you know, sort of muscle out Ethereum out of its spot.
And his feeling on it was that they're taking all the enthusiasm around Solana, that is, is predicated.
They want speed.
They want cheap transactions.
But there's less focus on
centralization. If we start having projects that are responding to, you know, the TradFi money
coming in from ETFs, and I'll take this question over to a TSFC, you know, don't we run the risk
that we've got a market that's going to stop rewarding decentralization, you know, because we are such, we in the Web3 space are such a small number of people
compared to traditional finance.
What do you think, TSFC?
It's a really good question.
And of course, ETF investors usually care about price and returns,
not about the technology or philosophy.
But from my opinion, they don't need it because for example uh one of the previous topic was uh not your case not your
crypto for example i don't i don't think it's a real problem because uh it's for example we found
something important the same in our project many normal people don't want to become crypto experts and they don't want to learn all technical details but they still want to be part of crypto
and ETFs as a good way to help these people try crypto it's a simple first step and I think the same about risk and decentralization.
It creates two different types of market participations, market users.
Passive investors using crypto as part of diverse portfolio
and active guys who value potential of technology,
who build something, create something new.
And I think it's positive for
crypto market it create a true decentralization right guys who just caring and give liquidity
and guys who built on this liquidity something right well i mean i hope so i hope the decentralization tells us remains a concern
in there because frankly the folks at home and and panelists i always worry about us staying focused
on decentralization anyway because every time the money is good people stop giving a crap about
decentralization we have to bear it in mind folks folks. It's about independence. It's about owning your actual assets.
It's about having something that's independent of state.
Let me go back over to T-Row from GamerBoom.
You know, at what point, I'm going to bring this to you because I think that lots of traditional
publishing houses.
I'm also on the dev side.
I'm developing an MMO in uh in unreal engine um right now i have
been for the past seven years in fact so it's supposed to come out in the next few months
lots of traditional uh gaming publishers have you know taken a blow to their brand by by trying to
put their toe in the water around, uh, anything
web three ETF or NFTs, you know, and getting pushback around that.
Don't we have the opportunity for a similar, you know, kind of opposite thing happening
where you've got like bonk diluting its brand.
Like what happens when more grandmas own bonk than, uh, than DGENs?
Like, uh, I mean, I mean really it's just kind of an
open-ended question like like how how might that change thing especially for for meme coins which
really rely on the rabid devotion of their community in order to uh you know maintain their value
um hello yeah so um um before i go through this question let me have a short interview
for introduce myself um i personally was a game designer as well but like i'm not making some games
yeah i just love making games generally and yeah i'll say um that was a great question um
That was a great question.
I have a lot of friends and I'll ask, every time when I was asking them,
hey, what's your feelings about game?
Like web free game specifically.
Right.
Like 9 out of 10, they're like, oh, that game sucks.
like they they were never saying they would never be like positive about this point but my in my but
They were never saying, they would never be positive about this point.
in another way like while i was like while we're like having trying to build um some events in
solana and i was selling solana gaming and some of their games they're like actually pretty
great i would say like it's kind of like a high quality indie game but kind of like level games and
so um yeah talking back to the question back to the question i think um i would just say i'll
just trade them as an asset so like in one hand like we're seeing some i've seen some like um mean
assets like game legitimate legitimacy because they because they're being like bundled.
They're being like bundled into financial product.
And on the flip side, I think I also setting a thing for this. mean things like serious investments just because they're in and like i would say um edf format is
that the that works yeah yeah so so for so for some it's
uh do you think do you think it's going to be a blow to the brand man like the same way that the greater
gaming world doesn't you know or at least two years ago was particularly resistant to nfts they
didn't want any part of that i mean i think it's going to change over time i think that ultimately
there'll be emerging but do you think that likewise um you know maybe uh the the bonk crowd i'll just keep
picking on them will get sick of uh you know all of these normie investors coming into their space
and uh you know having a controlling ownership of their coin um yeah i mean like eventually
like automatically like like like like all like all ultimately yes but
it's just like a time issues yeah it's like yeah it just needs to take time you got to build trust
to the like traditional investors because I think like nowadays um like especially this year um after like trump like standing for um this whole cryptocurrency and people
was getting knowing more about crypto like even my mom they're asking me um what kind of thing
that i'm gonna invest and yeah it's yeah i think once the market met met metters like we'll likely like what's eds that um like staking rewards or like d5 y'all like turning them into structured
product yeah that's my okay yeah all right let me let me take it over to uh to polly from from
komodo polycrypto blog, what do you think, man?
I feel like everyone that's doing an ETF right now, especially we talk about Trumpcoin and talk about Bonk or whatever, even Sui, it's kind of a flex, I think.
think like, I think it's just kind of a flex to be even applying for an ETF.
I think it's just kind of a flex to be even applying for an ETF.
Um, do you think that if they really get what they're looking for, that's ultimately going
to dilute their brand, which seems like maybe an existential level threat, especially to
meme coins, which really depend on this rabid devotion from, from their crowd, you know,
usually comes down to a few thousand people on a Telegram
group really driving those projects. What do you think?
Yeah, I think that the success of the ETF, the meme coin ETF versus its underlying asset
is kind of like inversely, you know, correlated.
You know, I think the big issue, though, is not the, you know, the grandma who's buying into the ETF.
It's actually the fund manager themselves, because they're the ones at the end of the day who are holding the coins who can make governance changes,
the ones who, you know, have a very disproportionate uh influence um i i think the traditional like a degen mindset for lack of a better phrase you know kind of over time
peters out right you know people are only fanatical for so long you know, and they find a new thing or, you know, they just get tired and quit or whatever.
So, you know, I think that the existential threat to these projects comes from having these,
you know, large funds being able to swiftly, you know, change market momentum, you know, in a lot of times, you know, for their own interests,
as opposed to the interests of the entire community, which then, you know, causes a lot of
paper hands, if you will, to, you know, creates a cascading problem. So, yeah, I think there is a, you know, some threat to, you know,
you know, projects like, you know, meme coin projects. But, you know, I would view it as,
you know, it's kind of a challenge that they will have to face. You know, they have to,
what is their identity beyond just the meme? You know, like what the future lead to, you know, it's, yeah.
If they're just going to rely on, on, you know, the, the initial, you know,
meme, you know, that they came out with and the frenzy behind it, it's,
it's you know the project isn't going to last so um the threat of the etf should be a catalyst for
you know, the project doesn't got to last.
to you know really make some hard decisions of where the project is going forward sure
oh i mean of course you know evolution is not a bad thing let me go back over to uh
deep in jesus from iotex uh you know let's talk about the the megalithic whales
that's a a phrase that i've just been banning about lately because i'm trying to convey you
know whales on a scale that we've never seen before um it's going to be a whole bummer when
controlling interest in uh in bitcoin or an ethereum foundation or what have you is just straight
up controlled by the same banks that we've been uh you know ranting about for the past 10 years
in the web3 space aren't we here to create something different like what what happens
when uh you know aren't they more vulnerable aren't ETFs creating more vulnerability to price manipulation by, uh, by institutions?
Is this an end to decentralization?
I, I, I love this question.
And, uh, actually I think it's a great segue, for example, to, uh, something that,
uh, uh, Polly was saying just a minute ago, because I think that basically what, what,
what you said, Polly, really
also applies to not just meme points, but seriously to like any asset, you know, we
have seen it like with the, let's say, you know, I don't know, market manipulation over
the past few months, this cycle has been like completely different than all the others,
been super hard to predict.
And it's just different. And it's now like a more institutionalized game.
So definitely ETFs, basically aggregating supplies, definitely brings on more centralization,
definitely brings on more manipulations by institutions and this megalithic way,
which actually I love the term. It's difficult.
I don't know if it's the end of decentralization.
It's kind of like selling the or at least giving a copy of the keys to the door of decentralization
to institutions.
Right.
And, you know, something that we've been like working really hard for over the past
years.
It's a little bit maybe against the ethos of crypto.
But at this point, I mean, it's done.
It's open.
And somehow you also need for, essentially for like legitimacy, for like worldwide adoption.
It is something that kind of has to,'s part of the of the milestones it's
part of the like stepping stones of something that we got to go through but right there's going to
be more vulnerability to manipulations institutions can now you know change the price we've seen like
the incredibly long like sideways action the dips the pumps all these things. I mean, it's, it's clear, you know, and it's one of the side effects of like,
just basically opening up to the retail.
I mean, like it's been said before, retail is very, very small portion.
Uh, yeah.
To what institutions can do.
It's, it's just what's happening really.
Right.
Definitely.
You know, let me go over to uh to tsfc what are
your thoughts on that man i i mean like to to put a finer point on it i think that we're going to
there's going to be a lot of bad feelings in the uh web3 community the day that like uh ethereum
has to i don't know adjust the way that they're handling their nodes like they just did.
They actually just lowered the threshold for nodes because like Credit Suisse told them to.
Because, you know, or because Fidelity or whatever traditional fund owns so much, BlackRock owns so much of their overall supply that now you've got the same bankers that we've been saying we're
going to do better than we're going to replace traditional finance with something that's better,
more accessible for people, provides more opportunity for people. And yet here we are,
as soon as the money is available, we kind of want that money. We want the mainstreaming.
How do we thread that needle, man?
TSFC? that money we want the mainstreaming how do we thread that needle man tsfc can you hear me can everybody else hear me uh we can hear justin but i cannot hear tsfc yeah i mean
tsfc with us okay i'm going to take over chuck chuck what do you think there's my super long
question but you know like uh it i just
imagine it's gonna piss everybody off terribly the day that credit squeeze tells uh you know
a theory and what to do or or more realistically soul or bonk you know like uh there's all sorts
of volatility what happens when uh you know you've got an institution like BlackRock that owns enough that they can just straight up manipulate the price?
I think that, first of all, is on the surface illegal.
When we're talking about traditional finance world,
and this is the part where your compliance folks,
your regulators are really going to have to step up, right?
Because we essentially have every same thing with stocks and or bonds and the like.
And we have BlackRock and the like owning a large chunk of companies, right?
And the thing is, you know, what you're saying is very valid. In terms of Wall Street, I mean, we've toppled
nations, completely wrecked foreign economies, doing very similar things that you just mentioned.
There's absolutely nothing stopping from them doing the same thing to a particular
crypto project, especially when this space is utterly unregulated at the
moment, which means, you know, we really need a set of, you know, and I don't mean just one nation,
but we really need kind of like a global consortium of governing bodies or maybe self-governing
bodies to say, you know, these are the things that you can and cannot do within the crypto world.
After all, it is an investment. It is an asset that can be used to make money. And whenever that
thing happens, you know, there are chances to make money. People are going to skirt around
any rules. And it's much worse when there are no rules whatsoever. Right. So I certainly look towards the regulators and the compliance side across the world for the next couple of years to kind of clarify what you can and cannot do in terms of, you know, having crypto as an investment or behaving or dealing with investing in crypto for, you know, your regular institutions and or your regular retail folks.
That is a thing number one.
I feel that is going to be an immediate need when we're talking about greater adoption
from the institutional world.
Right. Absolutely.
On the other hand, when you say, hey, we just happen to have so much of Ethereum,
you know, Ethereum Foundation, you really need to give
us a view. And I actually, you know, props out to Vitalik for this. I believe, you know, he's
already said no to the likes of Russia. And I'm hoping that there are more folks who are able to
hold on to their guns in terms of the you know the purest uh way
of approaching uh you know their projects um that's uh that's the thing that the industry needs
to kind of mature and kind of get together whereas all getting all the crypto folks or the major
crypto players together to kind of build a set of you for themselves to do or not do certain things.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And honestly, the first part of your answer,
particularly I really vibe with,
I would love to hear more serious projects
talking more seriously about self-regulation
and what we can do by sort of banding together
as an industry there is the
digital chamber of commerce out there does some great lobbying work for example they're they're
one of the biggest um really like them but you know we could use more of that because man even
with all the publicity stunts and executive orders that we can, you know, as many as we can shake a stick at coming from this
current administration. I'm like, okay, where's the regulatory clarity? Because I want to see it
on paper. Let me go over to a deep in Jesus. Go ahead. Yeah. Do you want to add something, man?
Yeah. I wanted to add, Justin, thank you. Because obviously I agree with what was said just now, for example,
Chuck had a great point.
I wanted to add also that I think though that the utility part, and that's I think where
some of the projects can become really, really strong, is that the utility part stays the
same.
Peer-to-peer payments, cross-chain payments, equal opportunity for everybody to access certain assets stay
the same, decentralization of infrastructure, for example, stays the same.
So I think that the projects that can still bring utility to the table, in the context
of talking about maybe manipulation by institutional or centralizations i think the project is still bring utility will definitely get much much stronger so i think the use cases
for crypto for blockchain technology for decentralization and all that still right
right yeah no i agree and honestly i'm always very bullish on novel use cases and new technology, folks.
That's what was awesome about talking to and about Ethereum yesterday.
You know, they do have novel, you know, they gave us all of DeFi, basically, with smart
contracts, and they do have a serious focus on innovating technologically, and that's
kind of what our space is about.
I mean, I'm using, I like to use TradFi examples because it, I don't know, it just takes you out
of, it helps make a point, takes you out of the web three space a little bit, but like,
I think a lot of what, uh, you know, of the valuation that went into, uh tesla was because the he was uh elon was saying fully autonomous you know by this year
and then china kind of put the kibosh on that by not sharing their traffic data with him and that's
how you well you know not financial advice but sounds bad for them alan by the way i can see you
in the audience if you request to speak i would love to bring you back up man i'd be i'd be glad
to do that we're just going to start wrapping it up pretty soon probably about another
another 15 minutes or so but let's let's get into uh you know does anybody want to talk about what
about etf products like yield farming etfs what about defy ets is there is there any way are
people going to look to integrate passive income or staking rewards you know with
these ETFs it's like you're you're you have ETFs functioning like preferred stock almost what do
you think uh TSFC a possibility or no are you yeah yeah uh uh yeah I think think ETF products integrating DeFi yields and staking are logical market evolution.
And of course, we already see Ethereum ETFs planning to use staking to generate additional returns.
And I think next could be more special products focused on various DeFi platforms or yield strategies.
However, these complex ETFs will face regulatory and technical
challenges, but I think it can be possible. About regulations, I think it needs to access smart
contracts risks, calculate smart contract risks, and ETF issuers must develop some structure for uh distributing kills
and traditional investors may be attracted by potential returns higher than traditional
fixed income investments it can be better than uh bank yields and yeah of course it can be
amazing product but i think it creates competition with current banks and with
bonds and I think we can see some war and fight on this field it's my opinion
about it definitely alright let me go over to Alan's we just got him back on
from Apexi Alan thanks for uh coming back up uh you
think that is that getting too deep into the weeds should we be looking for defy etfs i mean i think
people will try just about anything but what what uh you know are we uh reaching a a tipping point
if we try to get into uh yield farming etfs or ETFs that grant passive rewards.
Yeah, I think that's going to be very difficult to get through the regulators and through
the SEC.
Now, obviously, this administration, you just don't know what's going to be effective,
but I don't know how they would pass on those rewards and the fluctuation and what the risk
profile would be around there.
And I'm not sure which funds, which institutions would even let their clients buy it.
Like Morgan Stanley and these bigger clients,
they don't even let you buy half of these things.
So I don't know.
We're going to see.
It's going to be interesting, though.
But I do think you're going to see more and more companies like ours, right,
that are going to be pure, you know, accumulators of certain tokens
and certain strategies and maybe even some like that that does a diversified strategy.
Right. What about the next one that launches a diversified strategy and they hold three coins or, you know, they hold Bitcoin and it gives you it gives it's pretty interesting how it all plays out and what the risk profile looks like for people.
But if it spurs wider
you know wider adoption of of holding this asset it's going to be great definitely well you know
it's by the way thank you to all of our our guests today uh go ahead and follow these people folks
not only because it's been a really smart conversation about ETFs, which I really appreciate
everybody donating their time and experience like that, but also because I think everyone on the
panel has been thrown off like three times, probably because I've mentioned Elon Musk.
I don't know. That's just a joke I make regularly because I often say I'm flattering things of him.
But Twitter Spaces is a great platform, except that it's constantly broken in small ways. joke I make regularly because I often say I'm flattering things of him but Twitter space is
is a great platform except that it's constantly broken in small ways so and thanks to all of our
guests for being patient and just coming back on and requesting because that's the only way to get
you back up here so let's go to a speed round of questions so we can just touch on everyone
let's assume that this isn't just um you know
speculation all the other ETF applications that are out there isn't just speculation on the part
of the projects themselves or a way to show I don't know it's like kind of a flex it feels
like a flex a little bit but that there is a market demand to back it up you know three years from now uh we'll start with tsfc
how do you expect this to change the crypto space assuming that etfs are as successful
as they are projecting to be as they would like to be what do you think sir
from my perspective I think uh all the stuff from ETFs it's um for crypto it's just liquidity but
uh I I think we need to build our strategies and prepare not to be like exit liquidity because when a lot of retail goes to crypto market and goes uh to buy
somebody uh trying to sell in this amount and i'm i'm very worrying not to be uh the late phase of
uh evolution of crypto not to be at the late stage sure sure no absolutely what do you think chuck
how do you think it's going to change things over the next three years every you know the etfs are
successful new etfs are approved i don't know whether trump coin will really be approved or not
but whatever you know let's assume that there continue to be more and more packaging of crypto into that ETF wrapper as people are buying in.
How do you think that changed our space?
If everything works right and correctly and we have proper regulatory compliance clarity in the build,
some of the things that I could see, one being liquidity, I think we already mentioned coming on.
And what it really does with the ETFs is that it's going to narrow the bid-ask spreads, right?
So because there's a whole different way of arbitrage channels between the underlying assets and the actual ETFs themselves.
And when there are more ways of doing pricing doing pricing discovery it makes the price more accurate
So I'm hoping if everything works out right
Whomever whichever coin has a ETF attached to it their price is gonna become less volatile
Right. This ETF is supposed to contribute to the actual price of stability
And you know having institutional flows are you know, they tend to have actual price of stability. And, you know, having institutional
flows are, you know, they tend to have more of a steady hand than your normal retail investors.
So I'm just going to leave stability and hopefully lower volatility in place as long as
the projects are able to get away from that, uh which you mentioned earlier the leviathan effect
where super huge whales uh um by institutions like black rock can really uh you know play uh
can really do damage right so as long as we can get through that i think the price stability uh
should improve i think that is a pleasant picture to contemplate. It feels like maturation of our space in a lot of ways.
Digital assets are growing up, just becoming another form of asset class, you know, going
over to Deepin Jesus.
This is something that I've been talking about for a long time.
But, you know, and of course, Chuck's right.
An institutional investor is going to look at things in terms of five year, 10 year,
20 year windows. Whereas, you know, an analog DGN investor is looking at it in a five, 10 and 20
day windows usually. So, you know, how do you think it's going to change the space? Is it going
to change the personality? Is it going to change the kinds of projects that we see? Are we just going
to become another arm of essentially the greater tech space? Yeah, that's very interesting. I think
what the two previous answers were totally on point, right? So capital inflows, more legitimacy,
more legitimacy, lower volatility and all that for sure.
I think one kind of like issue that I see or maybe like a situation where maybe we are starting to create this like two parallel worlds.
There's going to be obviously the investors that like passively invest into crypto because it's just another asset that they think is going to appreciate over time, maybe with the massive inflows of ETFs, kind of like appreciates steadily over time. So
all the 401ks, et cetera, use cases. But on the other side, we're going to have like the
on-chain people that kind of like the use cases for crypto, the use of the actual crypto
infrastructure for, let's say in my sphere
of reference for like decentralizing infrastructure, for example.
Right.
And I feel that the ETFs are not necessarily going to play a role in it, maybe, or maybe
as liquidity, but I wish there would be a way in which the the actual use cases the infrastructure the utility of a lot of these
projects uh would actually come through and i don't see the etfs necessarily playing a direct
role in don't you worry about the etfs despite the liquidity that they bring into the market
also in some ways playing retrograde to kind of your stated goal as you build as you build out kind of the
the global infrastructure to support these use cases because like the the actual networks can
be as decentralized as as we can make them of course but if um you know blackrock owns everything
well they're not really decentralized and i don't think they have any intention you know
uh isn't that kind of a concern that's what i'm saying like the the the reasons why some of these
like uh crypto protocols or projects uh leverage the technology to actually provide a service that
maybe could be better or more scalable than like centralized
counterpart will somehow suffer or somehow will not benefit from the ETFs inflows right
so it's going to be great for like passive investors people that want exposure for sure
there's going to be more exposure more liquidity all that but the infrastructure it's going to
suffer yeah i worry
about that i really do and dpin is doing a lot of good work right now in general uh poly from
komodo platform what do you think man next three years etfs if they continue as in the trajectory
they've been on and i guess let's assume we get some more regulatory clarity around it boy i sure
hope so sooner rather than later you know how do How do you expect it to affect our space,
the projects, the users, where the capital is going?
So yeah, how do you see ETFs
will affect these different customers of codec projects?
For users, what we're all familiar with i don't think it will affect too much the majority of people
and funds getting into etfs are not you know they're not looking to actually use you know
they they're just looking to make money um so i i don't think we're going to see a massive like increase in user bases
to these projects that that have uh you know etfs um right which you know kind of unfortunate but i
do think we'll bring a lot more exposure um you know to the project um you know so it definitely will end up helping projects, as I believe it was Chuck mentioned, creating better spreads on the underwater box.
A lot of projects are financed with their own coins, so that money inflow coming in will increase their war chests and hopefully enable greater projects to be built.
Right.
The one thing that concerns me in the next three years, or I don't have as hard of a
timeline, it's like three or five years for this, is that if a bunch of these ETFs go out and there isn't any proper oversight of, you know, say their
holdings and such, and we do have some sort of like black swan event, I think a lot of
scrutiny will end up being brought on to these newfound crypto ETFs, you knows due to their inherent volatility, but also due to investor ignorance.
I don't think a lot of people, especially on the ETF side, know what they're actually
investing into.
into um they just see the numbers and it's unfortunate right um but you know if some bad
They just see the numbers.
And it's unfortunate.
Right.
event does happen and we don't have the regulatory clarity uh you know in the the next three years
and more importantly no if no one follows the regulatory clarity um they're very bad for for
crypto overall and might be more damage than good from the
influx of new funds.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic,
I don't know. I have a hard
time seeing
things like Doge and Bonk
as a legitimate
investment vehicle I can trade
on the NASDAQ
or something.'s yeah it's
right yeah well it goes to show what they're doing though doesn't it because it seems like
there's a life cycle to every uh crypto project like i was talking to pepe coin on this show
just a couple weeks ago um you know they're coming out with like an ai trading bot for example
it seems like once you get over like the hundred
million threshold when you're when you're a meme coin you essentially become a foundation and then
start doing something that's you know technologically based or based in a uh a new use case and for for
what it's worth i i agree with you that um i don't think that these uh fund investors uh you know from trad fi are going to come on the
telegram boards and start arguing with people about what to do about bonk for example what
what i fear in terms of their influence is more to the effect of um if somebody wants to take a
major project in a really bold direction as crypto is want to do you might have enough uh
conservative investors out there who are like nah fam you're gonna keep doing what you're doing
because that's what's making us money so that that's kind of interference i'm on the lookout
for t-ro what do you think man next next three years assuming the etfs all continue
eat etfs all continue how do you think it's going to change the space
how do you think it's gonna change the space
all right can you hear me yeah yeah awesome um
i think um i like what like what i see with crypto etf it's it's in like early
cycle of structural transformation so it's not just in crypto but like in how capital like allocators interact with
emerging technologies and um like edf for sure like dramatically like lower the barrier to
entry to institutions they introduce regulatory clarity which which increase the trust and that's like critical for adoption but like more importantly um
improve liquidity and beginning to create the price stability stability we need for
these assets to be taken seriously as part of global portfolios right um
when institutions come in they don't just bring money, they also bring like expectations
for better execution, how to spread like more transparent market dynamics, and that's like
already happening right now, right? Right. And we're seeing you have more like a mature SS class and that's an important milestone, I guess.
I call next wave, I think will be more interesting
like product that integrates staking, yield
and or other on-chain mechanisms.
That's where, I think that's where traditional finance
meet programmable finance in a very real
way i guess right for me personally i think edf are not the end game it's like the step and building
bridge so like if you know if you build a bride we unlock with a much like a huge larger and more
inclusive financial future i guess right right well okay i mean i hope so i mean
it's a balanced and fairly positive uh outlook on the future alan what do you expect to see come out
of all of this
