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supercycle (real)
Recorded: March 22, 2025 Duration: 2:58:51Space Recording
Short Summary
The transcript discusses various aspects of the crypto industry, including potential partnerships and project launches, trends in market behavior, and the impact of social signals on coin purchases. It also highlights the unpredictability of coin market caps and the entry of traditional finance professionals into the crypto space. Additionally, it touches on security concerns with insider hacks and the decline of certain projects due to exploitation.
Full Transcription
like intro music playing. It'll be awesome. Yes, we definitely need that. I need like a 30 second or maybe one minute intro.
I don't it needs to be like six minutes long like it needs to be so long that 99.8% of
users just instinctively click off right. They're just like fuck this. I think the study I think the study lads one is uh is like a minute almost.
Yeah, I think everyone who had like a video intro that was like geared for last cycle has just kept rolling it because it's like, well, fuck, it's part of our branding now.
People associate like the little song with us.
So we have to do it.
But then everyone this cycle is just like it's literally like a two orders of magnitude decrease in ability to pay attention or care about anything.
Yeah.
So, yeah, they just click off during the intros.
I mean, I even notice this with like Versen Lucas podcast stuff.
Like our intro, which already was sort of like, it was already a very controversial intro.
Now people are just like, dude, just fucking cut it out.
Like just give it of it.
I don't.
It's too long.
It's grading.
I don't care.
Skip right to the thing.
Yeah.
We should do it anyway, though.
Yeah, like I think it's sort of funny in the sense that like, you can just like basically molest the viewers.
Like you can just force them to sit through it, right?
Like you're intentionally harassing them.
You both know that nobody wants this year.
Interesting.
The name to that podcast.
It's literally the version of Lucas.
Did you know that?
Does you know the original meaning of molest by the way?
No, I did not.
It means to like cause trouble or to like annoy vex.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Like the Latin word.
It's always like...
The Latin word means annoy.
I'm starting to come back to thinking.
Like, you're annoying me.
If I, if I use a word a certain way naturally, that is probably what it means.
That's what the ancients would have been doing.
Yeah.
Yeah. Like there's some weird blood knowledge that I have that all people probably have, but most people are just using dictionaries and I just never look up the fucking meaning of anything.
So I'm just going based off of the feel of the words.
True savant.
Bullish or bearish on...
I talked about gene editing yesterday.
CRISPR is just going to be banned in a lot of countries for like embryo gene editing.
It's going to be...
hard to commercialize. I think you're just going to see government experiments.
Like already right now, I believe you can send embryos to like
labs in Ukraine and get them edited if you want. But like in terms of like emerging
technologies, mainstream technologies, I just think gene editing is going to be
outside the Overton window for another 10 years. You almost need like eugenics
masterminds to be in government.
Yeah, it's one of those things where if you get it regulated by people who are like totally outside of the field.
You're just totally fucked, right?
Like, you're just absolutely fucked.
Like, imagine somebody who's like understanding of gene editing is what it was like 10 years ago trying to pass regulations on this.
Like you, this, you're, I think you may be more fucked having like out of date regulation in gene editing than in like any single other field in the entire history of the world.
By the way, Scylla just joined.
You can't see him because he's hidden behind.
I guess I have to remove this comment.
So there we see his little thingy.
But he has some questions about, I don't know, some sort of, actually I'll just let him obfuscate as much or as little as he wants to, but let her rip sales.
Yeah, you guys hear me?
Yep, yeah.
Okay, perfect.
I can hear you well.
Good doing guys.
So I had a question for zoo or just in general for, I'm asking a couple of people, but the short of it is I'm being retained or sorry, I'm going to get up and pace around as I walk.
I'm being retained. I'm being offered to be retained by a businessman.
who he has a decent private wealth management business.
He has like 20 billion assets under management in several jurisdictions,
primarily for offshore clients.
And,
you know,
He is looking into crypto.
He doesn't think it's a core business, but he basically wants to own the entire business.
He has an M&A business.
He has a corporate finance business.
He has the private wealth.
And now he's looking at retail banking and also crypto.
And he trusts me a lot.
And there's basically two things he wants me to do.
He's looking at smaller regional or national exchanges that are
that are non-US and non-European.
And he's considering either acquiring one of these or starting an exchange from scratch.
And what he wants me to do is build them a diagnostic of,
okay, what are the different exchanges, you know, just everything you would need for an
M&A kind of preliminary process, not, you know, hardcore due diligence,
but a market map looking at different exchanges, advantages, advantages,
why it would make sense, why it wouldn't make sense.
And then he's going to probably ask me to see who stays on the team, who gets booted from the team,
and kind of how the business gets consolidated, and then also how he links it to the private wealth.
Because he obviously, you know, it's very beneficial for the crypto business to be linked to the private wealth,
but it's not so beneficial for, you know, a prestigious private wealth business to get linked to a crypto exchange or something that's short.
And so, you know, I'm happy to answer any questions going to it. I think it's a fun case.
But primarily what I actually want to ask about is how I should structure payments.
So I'm probably going to take some equity and probably some success fee if there is an M&A that goes through,
if an acquisition or something that sort goes through.
But also the question is, should I charge by the hour?
Should I charge by completion of report?
Should I charge?
So I'll leave it over to you and you can maybe ask some clarifying questions.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't charge him by the hour. I think anytime you charge by the hour,
you're going to get lumped into like consultant, lawyer type guy. I think success fee is fine. Yeah,
you can help him find the right framework. You can do like a one-time fee too. As for like the business model itself, I think that
you know, there's different ways to do it depending on his level of involvement and how much involvement he wants and what what could play is.
But obviously, this has been a thesis for people for quite some time now in a lot of regional markets where they think, okay, if you have some government connections, if you have some existing brick and mortar businesses, then what you can do is you can get a digital license or apply to the government to create a license that they can then be the first to apply to.
and then have a moat that way, right?
So I think the regulatory premium is something that is valuable.
you know, your product set will be safer than the offshore exchanges.
So the revenues will be way less, but, you know, there's an M&A value, right?
So now that the suits are coming into crypto, you know, it's, it that that stuff does matter.
So yeah, you generally will want to look at what, what are all the licenses available in these regions,
who already has them, how easy is it to get them, what do you need to get them?
If it's relatively easy to get them and you have the ties, he has ties, you should apply for them yourself with the skeleton team.
If it's hard to get them, then you should buy the second one or the third one, something like that.
It kind of depends on which specific market you're talking about.
Generally, definitely don't build it from scratch.
It would be a waste of time.
You'd be remanding the wheel a lot.
I mean, you would build it from scratch, right?
You'd use providers and stuff.
Are you saying building it from scratch, because I would definitely use providers.
Definitely, you know, like that's actually.
Yeah, yeah.
Definitely don't build from scratch, yeah.
Definitely agree.
Okay, yeah. Would you say that there's what would be like a standard kind of success fee that you would charge for something like this?
I mean, I've never done these kind of things with success fees before. I think it usually makes sense if you were part of the teams and manage it in some way because then you could get paid from that and it would be like.
Yeah, I'd probably want to do both to be frank.
I'm getting a lump success.
So there may be like a very low chance this actually goes through just because there's
a low chance that most large scale.
I think there's a high chance it goes through, but there's, I think odds are probably
it'll make more sense to start in you to like poach some key people that I know who are
solid and just build it from the ground up using infrastructure providers.
I mean, I don't know your ethnicity, so I mean, honestly, this depends a lot on the guys of ethnicity.
It depends on if you're Jewish.
And I'm not even, no, not even just specifically Jewish.
I mean, the negotiation styles are very different across, the negotiations styles are very different across cultures.
So generally speaking, given you're the consultant, generally speaking, given you're the consultant, just let him name something and you can come back.
because he also has more business experience.
So he will price it according to what he thinks is reasonable.
And he's going to want to motivate you anyways.
So then you can just take it from there.
Like I do generally, you know how the one hand, yes.
Yeah.
What I'd say is different is in this case, I have a preexisting very strong relationship
with this guy.
And in this specific market, I'm like maybe one of
three or four people who can give him this unbiased advice and can build the team while I don't have any
conflicts of interest so I don't have like equity in exchange or I didn't have an invested in an exchange or something of the sort.
And yeah.
And so in that sense, I would, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, generally speaking, if you want to inspire max confidence, you should ask for as much equity as possible and as little cash as possible.
That's kind of like business 101 there because then you'd be like okay.
Yeah, of course.
So, yeah, but again, it depends on.
So have you never seen a case like this where it's like some external consultant comes in and it's like, okay, we wanted to analyze this oil and gas business in the Middle East here?
You know, you've run oil and gas business in the Middle East for like 20 years.
There's honestly a lot of ways or something.
Yeah.
There's honestly a lot of ways to do business. As you get older, you'll find that there's many
different ways to do business. I've seen business deals done where it gets negotiated in one hour,
and then they never talk about the deal again. I've seen deals where they'll go back and forth
for a month and use lawyers and stuff. But so it just depends. I mean, you're American, I assume.
Americans are generally more fine print-based. So, you know,
probably you're expecting to go back and forth and find a number.
Like, Americans are actually a bit similar to Indians in that sense.
No, I think what's going to happen in this case is we're going to come together.
And it also depends how I want to play it, right?
Because like, you can throw out an anchor and be like, hey, you know, this is what I,
because I do do consulting.
And so I have like contracts, but it's like, hey, this is how much I charge an hour or whatnot.
Or this is how much I charge for like, you know, referral fees or this much how much I've charged for general advisory.
I've been on this transaction or that transaction.
So there are cases like this.
What makes this case kind of unique is there's both
the possibility of an acquisition of an existing company
or the creation of something new in all cases
that be involved afterwards.
But it does imply a pretty serious amount of work
before the fact, building a report to map out.
Yeah.
I mean, as a business like runner, like someone has been on both sides, like I would
say usually people will price you based on your next best opportunity, right?
So they won't price it based on even the opportunity itself.
They'll price it based on the person.
Yeah, of course.
What can this person do?
How much is this person's time worth?
So that's in general the problem with pricing yourself per hour, which is that the guy will then look at you and be like, well, how much are you worth per hour?
Like what are you going to be doing instead?
And if that answer isn't like super profitable, then he'll be like, well, okay.
So the other thing is I've got an offer to do something not exactly similar, but relatively similar from someone else in the same market.
The other offer is less compelling because it's someone who's part of it's someone who works at a bank and they're considering.
of moving into the space.
It's like a global bank and while the name is great,
it just means that they, like this guy is ultimately not the guy
who's gonna take the call and say yes or no.
And then there's gonna be like 100 corporate goons, you know,
like involved, as opposed to in the other case,
like someone who I have very high level of confidence in and vice versa.
So it's more like I would be able to manage it and whatnot.
Yeah, you should always do the one where you get the most responsibility.
That's far beyond any compensation.
Because with responsibility, you also learn more.
And so when you learn more, your next thing can be very, very valuable.
Like, early in my career, like, I took a job that was paying less than another job by like 40%,
because I thought I would learn more.
And that was like, I basically learned everything I did about trading there.
And I think that...
Like when you're in that situation, like I think there will always like naturally there will always be safer jobs that pay you more because those jobs have no growth priced in.
Right.
Like during my day, it was investment banking.
Right.
Investment banking will always pay you like a lot of money.
But the growth is very minimal and nutrition is very high.
Right.
Now, you know, corporate law is the same.
If you go to law school, you know, and you go to like a big law firm, you're going to get higher pay.
But.
like you have to grind it many many years you can't get anywhere anyways so that's one i think two
is like um in general like compensation negotiation is very tricky because um there's a
Good faith and bad faith, right?
Like, good faith is, okay, you want to be extremely involved and responsible,
and therefore you want a lot of upside.
That's very good faith, right?
You know, it can be perceived becoming bad faith when, you know,
the person wants a lot of money up front, right?
And they want a lot of, like, you know, money for my time.
So that can sometimes rub business people the wrong way
because it becomes more like, you know,
pure consultancy so these are just things to keep in mind but but again like yeah yeah
you're gonna risk it's 100% what i may be like a very maybe very explicit question is like
if you were if someone were to reach out to you you know and say hey you know i own this
regional asian bank and i'm looking at buying an exchange or starting my own exchange and
imagine you you didn't have anything with ox
you know, how would you structure something like this where they go, hey, you know, I want you to build a report or, you know, here's, you know, or take an analyst and build a report on the market.
I want you to look at which exchanges are worth acquiring, if any.
And then I want you to on top of that, you know, afterwards kind of advise me on how I should restructure the business at the point of acquisition.
And then maybe stay on an advisor capacity, you know, help us with connections in the space,
et cetera, for a little bit, maybe develop some of our views, you know, the private wealth business at
at the highest level is extremely relationship driven.
And so these people like having people who have experience,
come, speak to the clients, whatnot.
And so how would you look at structuring that?
I agree with me to say, like I want to get a percentage of inequity,
a percentage of the success fee from the get go.
I've spoken about these things and put these things on the table.
But I do think, like, there is a case,
because I want to do this in good faith.
I know this person very well, and he'll expect me doing good faith.
And frankly, I'm just going to do it in good faith.
That's the way I like to do business.
There is a world where it's like, oh, you know, obviously if there's a success, I'm much more incentivized, for example, for there to be an acquisition as opposed to a creation or something like that.
And so how would you structure something like this?
Would you straight up not charge anything for a report?
I think that that feels weird, right?
To not charge anything for the time, effort, knowledge of creating the report, that seems strength.
I agree with what you're saying.
You want to take more outside.
It shows, yeah.
I think it's standard, actually, to not take up front.
I think it's somewhat standard in in, I think, I mean, I don't know if this is in Asia and Latam,
but in Asia it would be pretty standard to not take a fee unless you were like a professional
consultant and you're like, I am just a consultant. So what typically happens is like, you know,
you could write like a report that the report, they'll pay 50k for the report or 25k for the report.
I've seen that. Like when HFT firms came in Asia 15 years ago from Europe to Asia, they
would pay a guy to write like an HFT market report, like which
companies are involved what trades are they doing like what's going on that's very normal that kind
of report 15 years ago might cost like 50k right and yeah they're betting they're they're betting that
i can learn more from this report than having to go figure it out myself so they'll pay you yeah
there's certain insider things from the from the industry or market that you know they can yeah
so they can commission yeah so they can commission a report that way that's reasonable yeah
I think they expect me to get involved from the conversation.
They expect me to be involved in the negotiation explicitly.
And then things that are that are like a little bit further than I would say, like a market map,
things like saying like, oh, this cap table is completely fucked.
Like don't touch his company or, hey, you know, I know on the off that like this company has two sets of books actually.
you know, or this company has like been embezzled for two years and actually there's like all this
fucked up shit behind the scene. So it is like a very high level involvement. The way I view it is or like the closest, because it's like very non-standard, right?
The closest way I would view it, um,
is like, you know, companies going into an area that they don't know.
They find someone that's been an operator in that area for, you know,
a significant amount of time and whom they have confidence with.
And they go, hey, you know, we want you to build a report.
We want to see if this is worth going into.
And then we expect you to stay on and operate in some capacity of this business for a while.
But yeah, maybe it's just, hey, you know, just focus on the success fee and the equity ex post,
which I agree.
I definitely want to lean compensation very heavy in that direction to make that clear.
Yeah, make sense.
You charge them nothing and do it all for free.
Yeah, that's a thing. It feels weird to be like, oh, you know, I'm going to take like two months to like write a market report and like pour a pretty significant amount of effort and create a very unique document that I really don't think.
I think very few other people are positioned in the way I am to be able to create this.
And then just do that all for free and it's like,
i mean i don't think they would do it and i definitely don't think it would happen out of bad faith
but like there is a non-zero chance of like nothing happens i think all labor should be performed
for love just for the love of the game and then eventually you learn so much that somehow you
accidentally make money yeah i i i mean is this is what your contract leuka
In this particular case, that's what I would think makes the most sense, honestly.
Like, as funny as it sounds to say this, but you actually should write this report for free for two months.
And I'll explain why.
It's not just, like, gas sliding from, like, you know,
He's like, I mean, you don't get anything by gaslighting, I don't think.
So before this happened, I actually got Sue on a call with the exact guy that you're talking about.
And he paid Sue a 150K retainer fee to convince you that you should not be paid anything.
Yeah, I mean, I'd probably, the report for like 150K seems reasonable or like 200K.
That's probably like a reasonable market value for the report on its own as a standalone.
Yeah, I mean, here's the argument for not taking a fee.
Okay.
One is...
Yes, it will take you some time to put it together, but you'll enjoy it too.
You can bill him costs, like if you have to fly around, bill him costs.
A classy way to do it is say, look, there's no fee, just cover my expenses for going through this D.D. process.
whatever that is.
And then, okay, you know, if you don't have a salary or you have to like quit a job to do this, then you can say you can give me a living wage, right?
Like, here's what I used to get. Just match it. Or like, you know, 30% discount for you.
That would be like good, good faith style.
Because the issue is that it's actually hard to assess the value of this report from the point of view of a business owner because, like, you may think it's worth 150K, but he may also change his mind about crypto in like a month.
He may be like, yeah, crypto is a scam.
So it's one of those things where...
Yeah, but in that case, crypto, the report would be some, I mean, if he just changed his mind randomly a month for now, that's different.
But like, if he looks at the report and he's like, yeah, actually, this seems a complete scam and like waste of my time.
I'll give you, I'll give you basically an Asian perspective a little bit more where it's like, okay, historically, there's more like this apprentice concept or like the son-in-law concept.
Like it used to be that like for bigger families, right?
Yeah, my relationship with this guy is basically that for the record.
Yeah.
Yeah, if that's the case, then just like do it and then and then don't charge him dollars because then or charge me if you want if you think he he's fine with it, but definitely err on the side of being like the good guy because you get back a lot over the long run from that.
You know, like people.
People will generally classify you as like an upfront like like dimer like you're gonna you're gonna dime me or you're gonna nickel and dime them
Yeah, either in your nickel and dime or you're not it's actually very binary and if you are known as a nickel and dimer
The set of opportunities available to you will shrink drastically
And you may not even be aware of it until you're much older and you're like wait I wait
i wish i didn't nickel and dime in that situation i mean you will never know like almost by definition
right the opportunities that are not you're not presented to you never see them so you you'll never
see you'll never see them you'll just be wondering you know why why some people seem to get big
deals and other people don't so that would be my advice there like like whatever i do think
it's also a case for like this guy i mean like this guy's you know he's nice to me and whatnot he's
like taught me very many things but i do also think
is a case where he has been like an absolute shark and there is also this sense where like charging him
nothing for the report he's a shark but he's like then he's gone out of his way to be nice to me in times that I know he did not have to do
and in ways that he did not have to you know he's a shark if he's a shark though that's actually even more reason not to charge him up front
and I know this sounds ironic to you but I'll explain why um sharks
If you treat a shark and you give a shark a very good deal or a reasonable deal, you're better off creating cycles of indebtedness, right?
Then you are creating this notion that like you're going to like reshark the shark kind of thing, right?
Because like it would make more sense to negotiate it's almost like a corporate thing.
It's like you know, it's like when you negotiate the cost to like repaint a wall or something or you're like weak like some some like HR manual right.
Well what he said is like not what I also to give you a little contact.
It's not like we had two we had one conversation where he was basically very uh.
very quiet about like you know and he kind of asked me my thoughts on on certain things and then
he had some internal conversations with people whom he owns like the vast majority of the business
but he has a couple of other people and i personally said okay you know i'm just in going ahead
and then um he uh and then we had a much more in-depth and specific conversations about hey this is
what i imagine um this is what i want from you and then he said something to the effect of
you know i'm traveling now for a week
when i'm back two weeks from an hour a week and a half from now let's have a meeting and come to me
with an idea of what you expect in terms of compensation um and so the just the reason i also bring
up a piece of shark is because it seems um it seems like a lack of self-respect of charge
literally zero for the report on some level no it's actually it's actually it's actually
giga self-respect it's basically saying you are you you're not a pleb
like imagine if you're like a trust fund kid you actually don't even need salary right study fashion
right if you go to if you go into fashion you earn nothing and you love it and that's actually like
gig a self-respect because you're like i'm like post capitalist almost you know what i mean like i think
that that's kind of what i'm trying to convey here which is like
like sharks his owners did they respect when someone gives that vibe of like being almost post-capitalist
very early because then they're like wow this kid is special like he's not going to just be like
this random kid who's trying to like griff me for like 150k or something um that's that's one element
that i think is is is like it is a very very real effect like look if the deal like if you think there's a risk that he's in a
that you're going to write the report,
he's going to then not use you, but somehow rely on your report
and then just get some also-
No, there's a 0% chance of that.
Because I know, I have, not me directly,
but there's people who might have really good relationships
with who have like significant leverage over him.
so yeah that would i know for fact that if the deal goes through i would be involved i would never
get yeah i'm just teaching you the apprentice game i mean look the apprentice game i've seen guys
do it i like i have a friend he's like swedish guy became like the the idea of one of one of
the wealthiest families in hong kong like the family basically didn't like their own sons and then
this kid went to like shanghai very young learned trying
He's that went to Hong Kong.
It's like one of the biggest families in Hong Kong.
But basically like the way to play that game,
if you're gonna do like that kind of a game,
is to literally be like a soldier, right?
And be like, you know,
Yeah, I'll get it done for you.
It's good.
Be a fixer, be a soldier.
Like that, like, if dudes are rich,
they can take you out for like wine or whatever
and it can cost 100K.
You know what I mean?
Like, it just doesn't matter.
So if that's the, like,
that apprentice game has been historically
the most Lindy game you can play if you're younger
and you become liked and you have that kind of a pathway.
you know, the transactional game you should do with people that aren't your own ethnicity,
right? Because if you're not the same ethnicity or you can't get into that game, then you're
kind of an outsider. And as an outsider, you need to be charging up front because you're not
going to get reciprocated fast enough or you're not going to get reciprocated enough at the time.
If it's your same culture or a culture that you can assimilate into, then you should try to,
like, do the longer term play, which is to be like, yeah, I love crypto, I can
I can do this crypto exchange for you. Here's how I'll do it.
Like here's what I expect. I want it's upside and cover my cost because I'm like younger.
Like I need my cost covered and my time covered. But it's like here's the amount.
Basically expect to profit from like if it actually works as opposed to the upfront.
Because actually like as a young person too like upfront money is actually meaningless.
Like it does nothing.
um you know like whether it's just another form of salary right like it's just all nonsense
it's all it's all it's all monopoly funny it has no meaning right like as the percentage of your
net worth versus 20 years in the future it's nothing are you going to compound it maybe but also
you might just spend it you might buy a watch you might buy you like you might buy a car like
it's all nonsense whether you had a car or not at like mid 20s or like late 20s i don't
i don't know how old you are but these are all irrelevant right but if you miss big deals or if you
miss like big opportunities that's actually massive that's why like if you watch shark tank like
one of the things that those guys say which i mean obviously is a very retaily show but like
what one of the things they say is like if you have a good deal on the table as a younger person
you just like take it fast and this is not gas lighting to like get the value down whatever it's
literally like
the business is fickle, right?
And so when you can lock in deals,
you should lock in deals.
And also when you have a situation where you see upside,
like you could rise to a large potential,
you should try to take those deals forward aggressively.
Because people also will, like, if someone's done a lot of business before, they will have seen a lot more scenarios than you have.
So they can read your intentions better than you think, right?
So even if, you know, if they think you want to make this money and then, like, ball out or, like, you know, do this or do that, like, they will judge you for it.
Like, older people do judge people for how they think about, like, money, career, compensation, kind of things.
And so you do run a risk of, like,
like no longer being seen as a potential apprentice you're seen more as like a
like a consultant like a like a like a like a like a roving broker
like a roving broker you don't want to seem like a roving broker this is like the nut
worse space to be seen in because then the guy has to like watch his like wallet when he's around
you at a restaurant even he's like he's in order the most expensive drink or something he's in
order like the you know what i mean like you become like this extract you've seen as an extractor
basically
even if you are, I mean, I don't know you that well, even if you fundamentally are an extractor, you can't tell people you are an extractor, basically.
So you have to almost do it in a different way.
Like maybe in the success fee, I mean, there's Indian Jewish tricks you can do with success fees.
We can discuss off stream.
But like, you know, ultimately you don't, you cannot present yourself as an Indian Jewish extractor.
You can't do that.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think most of this actually I totally agree with the idea that you should just do a bunch of shit for free and like, I mean, this is this is obviously like, you know, this can seem like motivated reasoning, but this is also like basically like what I have done.
Like I just wandered around doing a bunch of shit and like at some point you just have to say,
Do I trust these people or not?
And like if you trust the people, you're and you're well calibrated on who you trust,
then it's just like it's going to come back to you in the end.
Like you don't really know how, but there will be just some goofy like horseshoe that like whips the money back.
If you fuck up and you trusted somebody that you shouldn't have trusted and it never comes back,
then you know, okay, well like this type of person with X, Y, Z traits, I should not be like,
trusting these people because then I just wind up like doing free labor.
But like doing free labor almost never like if you do a good job, it just almost never is bad.
i agree i agree i've seen that a lot of my own life experience like sometimes this stuff where you're
like you're being the most generous with your time and labor you get rewarded like a thousand x
and you don't even realize how you're going to get rewarded but it just happens and then other times
where you like totally different person like sometimes it's literally not even the person you're
working with sometimes it's like someone they partnered with or someone that you were like
in meeting with twice but like uh
You unlock energy chakras you unlock crazy chakras in that direction because everyone he introduces you to or like you find like that becomes like the it becomes a virtuous cycle that way. But yeah, like.
It depends on your goals too.
Like if your goal, like some people, they just make 200K, like they're literally done for like two years, right?
Because you can live on 200K in like Guatemala or something or like Honduras like for like four years, five years.
Like you can go to Bali, for instance.
You can go to these kind of places.
So also it depends on what your goals are.
Like if that's the goal, then yeah, you know, it's quite different.
If your goal is to like hit a home run, it's also different.
If your goal is to like.
be the guy's apprentice also different just depends on your goals ultimately like no one can tell you what your goals are except you because these are different types like if you want to be the guy's apprentice you're not to wear a shit eating grin a lot too right like but at the same time um like
you know it's like frats right like people i i don't know if frats are still popular in the u.s
it's like the tailspace thing that lindyman speaks about and whatnot i mean i'm super familiar with the
concept it's just like i think i'm at an in-between point where i am uh i'm starting to move more into
payout space and um i think also the thing is like i i think they expect me to quote them some sort of price
for the for the because this guy worked in like investment banking MNA for a long time so like he's charged client success fees but also like they bill hours and they bill hours for for external consultants or for lawyers or stuff like that
um I think he expects me because he said like you know we can figure out that's a conversation with some yeah yeah that's the case then then then ask him because if if I mean you should make him name it first then
it's never good to be like the new guy with like 50 years less business experience uh naming
the price first really bad position i mean yeah but that's also how to get anchored right like
and someone throws like a super hard anchor and you have no no no like i agree with all the heuristics
you're saying anchoring anchoring is a scam so daniel connemon just killed himself i don't know if you
saw so it invalidates all his research on anchoring behavioral finance huge scam um
Yeah, I don't think anchoring is real.
I think it's more like who's price taker, who's the price maker.
If you would take any price because you want the experience,
then let him name it and then just take it.
He will not offer you a price that is so low that it's embarrassing to you.
Why? Because you're a free human being. You will just do something else.
So in other words, him naming the first price is the fairest price
because it is the price he's willing to pay and you would accept a whole number of prices.
The issue with you naming a price is, one, it could be so high that it offends him or he'll
think you're an extractor.
And two is, it also could be too low.
Like maybe he was willing more upside or he was willing to be more.
And now he's like, wait, this guy doesn't even want that much upside.
He just like literally here to make like 30K or something.
So that's why in a vacuum, it's better for him to name the price.
You're like, you have more experience with business.
How would you structure this?
I don't know.
So that's what I would do in your shoes.
Dude, I've done, I've done so many of these negotiations where like I was given like a price outright by the person.
And then I just said, okay, sure works.
And then like a year later after like working with them more, they'll be like, you know, like I was expecting to negotiate it like up to this point.
Like, uh,
I didn't it never once occurred to me that you would just say like yeah sounds good
And usually would they say this after saying like okay like here's like an unprompted raise or something
Like it all kind of like comes back honestly it does like I think anchoring is not real
I think that
I almost think pay negotiation is not real
I'll explain what I mean by that like
if you negotiate to the like the you know the grit of your teeth and you can negotiate the best deal to the point that he he's like all right take it or leave it like that actually only appeals to like that only applies to like high profile m and a like if you're if you're pepsi trying to buy like nestley or something then yeah like they like they they know they already want it but 99% of actual business is kind of based on like vibes right so
Like no one has to do anything.
Like you said, this guy is in private wealth.
He does other businesses.
He could just not do things.
So if the vibes are off, he just won't do it.
So that's why like hardcore negotiations on like at that scale of business is kind of weird because it's like.
there has to be a pie to go after like if the pie is well defined then we can decide how to split the pie but if the pie hasn't been made yet it's a little bit if he to like argue over the pie which hasn't been made you know what i mean and like if he is a giant shark and already doesn't like you then he can fuck you over anyways like he can fuck you over anyways in a year
He can get you off the board or something.
He can appoint new people involved.
He can dilute you.
He can do all sorts of tricks in business that, you know,
30 years, 40 years of experience would give you.
And so, you know,
That's the issue, I think.
And they also may be more likely to do that if you like go for something up front.
Like I've seen also like people, people going in being like fairly well liked and then
like being such like a neurotic freak during negotiations that like the other person is just
like, ah, you know, I kind of fucking hate this guy now actually.
And then later it's like, okay, dilution or like okay, like equity split or like, you know,
Yeah, but honestly it's cultural as well.
Like if you're a Gujarati Indian and you're negotiating with like a Gujarati Indian,
you should absolutely negotiate to the thin of the teeth and then afterwards
be like, wow, you're a great negotiator.
Like that's awesome because that's culturally like aligned, you know,
and same if you're like, you know, certain types of other people.
But, you know, if you're in cultures where that's like seen as like a faux,
then it can be very dangerous to do that, you know.
do you think there's ever a world where i i agree with like the the living wage or like some
nominal costs like i'm you know i i agree with like the the overarching heuristics of what you're
saying right um you you want to be like value aligned um you know life is long i agree
of these sorts of things um what what would you think about something like for example you know
if if an acquisition or something of the sort doesn't go through um
a service charge on the report or something, something does affect.
It feels nickel and diamond. I agree, but I think there's something like that that probably makes sense.
I mean, you could do the, I mean, you could like drink a bit and then say like, like you could, it depends on how smooth you are in person.
If you're a smooth guy, you could be like, man, like imagine that if I run around for two months and then like we don't do this exchange.
But if you know his other businesses and you and you want me, like maybe I can do this. Like you can, you can.
like if you want to play charles dickens mode you can play charles dickens mode is my point this is like
if you're pipped from great expectations you know like basically just depends on how smooth you are
like the smoother you are the less you have to ask for it now the less smooth you are the more
you have to ask for it now right that's all it comes down to like if he's the kind of guy who's
going to have you work on this for two months and then like it doesn't work out and he doesn't
he's not going to give you anything to show for it
then yeah, you need to ask for it up front.
And you need to also treat it more like a pure business transaction, for sure.
If there are signs that he, like, for instance, he intrus you to his friends without asking,
like he takes you out to like, you know, meet people and stuff.
Like, then, then I would not do that.
Like, because he can, he can insure you to your next big thing, right?
Like, which is worth more than money.
Like the thing that you understand when you're young is that money is literally useless.
It's one of the most useless things.
Actually, it's the most dangerous thing to get because you can get a little bit and then think you've won or succeeded.
like i watched a lot of peers in my ponies do that and basically be like oh wow i made like
a hundred k here i'm like rich now you know or like like i'm aiming to make 100k off this deal and
it's like make connections like understand things understand business you know then if you want to
make 100 million it's easy you can just do it you can just do things right ultimately so
I don't think like there's this idea of fairness I think that you point to a lot which is like okay like is it unfair if I worked with sky for two months and I don't get anything like yeah it's probably unfair but it he also knows that it's not it's not unfairness in a moral sense it's more unfairness and like there was value given here and when I say he's a shark what I mean it's like he's he's someone who's always um like his MNA business for example he actually purchased it when there's like a bunch of banks failing and he bought it for like a dollar
And stuff. And I just, I think ultimately he's the type of guy who will respect me, respecting myself in my time.
I agree with you. And like, I was already planning on, like, walking in.
And I think probably, and I'd like to hear your thoughts maybe on this.
I'm probably going to walk in and let him establish some sort of service fear, some sort of like living wage or something of this sort.
And then,
And then go, hey, what if we do like half of that?
And instead, I get way more upside or something of the sword, you know?
Maybe that way putting specific numbers or something like this.
Because I do think he expects me to charge something for it.
And he's in the MNA business.
So like literally like where he made all his money was charging, you know, companies to buy other companies and saying,
hey, you know, I'm going to charge you 2%.
I'm going to charge you, I don't know, 1K,000 hour of like my analyst or something.
Asking for less upfront than their first offer is always gigabased.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, that's, uh, that's roughly.
I think I've picked your brain enough.
I don't want to take too much of your guys time.
How have, how have you guys been?
Are you guys both in Asia right now?
Yeah.
Definitely, definitely.
I have to go over.
Where, uh, where should I go with someone who's never, I've never visited Asia?
Taipei.
You should go to only Taipei.
You should go to, like, I'm at the point where I'm like no longer telling people to come to Taipei
because I'm worried it's going to become fucking Tokyo.
uh so it's like go tell tell everyone that you're going to like uh Thailand or something everyone
and they won't really blink at it at this point uh just say you're going for like the lady boys
everyone will be like okay yeah i got you and then go to you'll get you'll get way more hipster cred
going to taipei i feel like if you go to to Tokyo now it's like wow like you're going to
Disneyland you know it's just like uh it's kind of lost its uh
Tourism charm.
No, it literally is.
It's the same, it's the same like people that get like really obsessed with Disney.
Like it's the same exact phenotype of person who's like always, yeah, like going to Disney World and posting pictures with like weird Disney apparel and shit like that.
Yeah.
It's just become sort of soy jack mode.
Taipei is good because you get it's still it's still a pretty good mix of Western Asian influence so you will feel comfortable
But you won't be like this is like like the problem with Singapore in Hong Kong is that they're very urban
So if you just come for like pure urban experience it's a little bit cringe
You know it's good for a weekend, but I don't know if I would like go for a longer trip and then if you know about like um
Yeah, sorry go ahead there's a little bit of time
I was going to ask, what do you think about like countryside Japan or like skiing in Japan or something?
Skiing Japan is good.
I was just there a month ago.
I will say that skiing in the U.S. is honestly way better.
Like if you go to Lake Tahoe or something or like Utah.
Is it?
I've been told that this, specifically this year, it's like the level of private equity...
I have heard that they're scamming the ski lifts now or something and like people have to wait five years for a ski lift
Or they have to pay like thousands of dollars for a ski lift ticket. I mean, I don't know if there's some tricks going on there. It wouldn't shock me
But I'll just say that like the mountain height so Nisiko is like a thousand meters. It's called that what like three thousand
five hundred feet like this is a small mountain like you can go from top to bottom in like 10 minutes 15 minutes max so
Like most people I know that like do a lot of skiing or snowboarding, they will they will be like, wow, this is a small mountain.
But the food is great, you know.
So I would say it's almost like a dining experience.
Like if you go to Hokkaido and you're like going there for dining.
and you go in there to pay through the nose so I'm like hospitality so it's become like this
posh thing that like chinese people do uh Hong Kong people do where it's like okay and like
americans do now too because they're they don't want to like like americans now love traveling
right so they're like okay i i go to aniseko like i saw americans this time at nisiko and they're
like wow you know this is amazing like the mountain is small let's be honest this is a small
mountain so i think
But it's good to go once.
It's good to go once.
Hakubo is better, actually, if you want to be a little less touristy.
It's also same-size mountain, just foreigners haven't invaded it fully.
But yeah, it's okay.
It's okay as an option.
That's not Asia at all.
It's basically like a, like 99% of the people that work there are Australians and New Zealand people.
Really?
That's interesting.
You don't have any Japanese people on the mountains?
No, no, like that work in Nisiko, they're all foreign, it's all foreign labor.
It's created, like Hokkaido itself is actually not that many Japanese people, like in that area.
So, you know, what you end up with is, like, it's a touristy experience.
It's meant to be a touristy experience.
But the food is great, you know, it's powdery snow.
It's good for beginners.
But I would not consider it like an age.
Asia experience. It's a great banker experience. Like the cliche is like if you're a Hong Kong banker,
you're in Hong Kong for like six years. This is like 15 years ago. You're like Hong Kong for six
years. You go to Nisiko for the winter and you like, you know, and then you actually, you go
It's like a social thing maybe or something. Yeah, it's a cachet thing. It's like Aspen or something,
you know, it's like it's like Korsival or something or it's like, yeah, the hotel room might be
3k a night or something.
Yeah, that's about it as far as advice.
I'm looking up the best Taiwanese cat breeds.
I've realized it's going to be fucking impossible to get my guy down here from the States
because you have to like, I don't know, you have to like get them a rabies vaccination
because they, I guess, didn't have rabies in Taiwan until like a couple years ago.
And so they're really spooked of it, very few cases.
And then you have to get like monthly rabies antibody test for like 18 months or something.
So like it literally takes almost two years to import a house cat to Taiwan.
So I might have to just get another house cat and then I can be like the guy that has like
a wife in every country.
But instead of a wife, it is a new cat that I go to when I stay.
That's a crazy betrayal, bro.
Yeah.
Imagine you're your cat like listening to this.
My cat.
Because it's worse than the wife, right?
Because you're just like buying a new one.
It's not like, oh, you know, I have this crazy.
Yeah, it's not like you actually like wives, right?
Yeah, it's like in the other case, it's like there's actually some like, oh, you never paid attention to me.
In this case, it's literally like, oh, I, you know, I perched just.
And then it's like, oh, you know, he's like the other cat is like a more exotic, like luxurious breed or something, you know.
That's actually reminds me of Leslie, Lucas, because Leslie had a corgi in Dubai and then
she spent like months moving it from Hong Kong to Dubai and then she got another corgi in Barcelona because
she had just moved the original one to Dubai and then it was a pain to move it from Dubai to Barcelona
like it would have taken like a long time and then she moved from Barcelona back to Dubai so then
But it's easier to bring the dog into Dubai than out.
So now she has two corgis in Dubai.
Oh, so the dog is like trapped.
Yeah.
They're, you know.
No, I don't really know because like my cat is, like my cat in the U.S.
is just like an epic giga chat.
Like he was like an outdoor like.
He was just like an outdoor fighter cat for like two years before he got adopted.
And so like whenever I leave, I always just like leave his cat door open and I leave like 50 to 100 pounds of food in there.
And I leave a faucet running for him.
him and he just goes and just terrorizes the shit out of the neighborhood.
He always gets adopted.
There's there's like four or five houses by me where they have like sort of middle-aged
women who just like when they see him, they love him so much.
They just take him in and take care of him.
And then when I come back, I have to be like, hey.
You have an open relationship with your cat.
Yeah.
Like can you give me my cat back?
And they'll be like, no, no, no.
Like I don't.
And it's like at some point you see the cat like in their window and you have to be like,
I know you have my cat like.
Can you give him back now?
But he's totally fine on his own for like an unlimited amount of time because he like he was raised in the wild.
I don't know how they work down here in Taiwan.
I don't know that I can find like such a,
such a gigachad cat.
And I think it would be like weirder if I would like leave the door open and he just comes in and out.
Like it seems like they're like, oh no,
it has to be either an indoor or an outdoor cat.
You cannot have you cannot have this hybrid that just goes between them.
So do you know anything about like cat ownership in Taiwan, Sue?
Have you learned anything?
I don't know a lot.
I mean, cats are easy to raise though, I feel compared to dogs.
I mean, I think it's not.
I think it's okay.
It's not like it's a beginner pet, I think.
I don't think it matters that much how you do it.
That's why it's like, I feel like dogs are easy because you can just,
cats are like really picky about food now.
Like my dog,
I could just give them like random scraps.
Much harder than cats,
man.
Like,
because cats are not actually like a domestic animal.
Like cats are a thing that can survive totally on their own.
Like cats are like squirrels.
If you release a cat into the wild, like it will probably have just like six million kids and be totally fine.
It will eat every bird within like a two mile radius.
Like this is not actually like a house pet.
It is like a pet that is small enough that people looked at it and said, you can fit this in a house.
But like we never domesticated the house.
Yes, agree, agree.
Like, in Bali, like, I had some stray cats come, and you just start feeding them, and they'll come once a day and then they'll leave.
It's like, you know, it's very, very common.
I don't think cats really need that much from humans.
They don't need anything.
I think they're like, they're going forward if they get it, but they truly will get everything they need on their own.
I don't even know where they get water, but like they will somehow find water in the most dry, arid summer day of all time.
Have you been to cat cafes in Japan, Lucas?
Yeah.
I went to one and I was like, I don't know, all the like themed Japanese cafes always sort of weird me out in some way.
But I find them quite disturbing.
Yeah.
I find them quite disturbing for the cats.
Like the cats aren't healthy, but like aren't happy there, I feel.
Like it's just not something wrong about it.
They're clearly like spurged out a little bit.
Like it's almost like they're like on benzos or something and they're like, but they always, they always have a sense that they like want to go.
Like.
It's almost like a cat brothel.
It's like they're all like drug drugged up.
And you know, like you can buy a lollipot.
And then the cat is looking at the lollipop.
The women like being in the broth.
I mean, what it feels like is like all the cats hate it.
Like I'm saying it's worse than the bottle, right?
It's probably worse than a problem.
I mean,
Like,
I think that's the issue,
right?
Yes,
yes.
Dogs,
dogs were specifically bred such that,
like an extremely low EQ person could basically, like,
molest them all day and just like,
like the dog,
it doesn't matter if the dog's in the mood for like attention.
Like,
they're just going to sit there and get petted and they'll have to be happy with it.
Cats,
you actually have to like have somewhat of a little bit of emotional intelligence.
Like,
you cannot just go up to a cat,
and be like regardless of your mood I'm gonna like rub my face in your belly or
something like there's many points in the day where the cat's gonna be like I'm
gonna fucking like claw your eyes out if you do that again dude fuck you yeah I think
some of the major cat cafes had some scandals where they had to like shut down
for two months or something because of like cat overcrowding conditions and like
bad treatment of cats so had overcrowding conditions
Like, I think the idea that a cat lives in a cat cafe is fundamentally flawed.
Like, I think it could be like a cat, like, rescue.
And then you can adopt them from the cafe if you like them.
But they can't be, like, living in the cat cafe.
There are some like that down here.
I was looking around yesterday for adoption shelters.
They have, like, a lot of these, like,
It's like a place where you can go and play with them and they're there as like a shelter and you can like do the cat cafe thing.
Like they have tables and stuff set up and all the weird toys and lollipops and shit.
But like if you really like one, there's a path.
There's a path to escaping, right?
The cat makes it out at some point.
Yeah.
To escaping and like the cats aren't there to like perform for the humans.
Like they're not like like wearing a dress or something.
And then like licking lollipops like 12 hours a day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe we should start a town actual team.
We should, yeah.
I'm just like a huge cat bull, I guess, because like, people who I generally find to be, like, grading in the sense that they, uh,
Like, their behavior does not depend on your mood at all.
Like, they will never read the room.
They will just always do the same thing, irrespective of conditions.
Like, these are usually dog people, right?
They're like, this is the type of person that would breed an animal specifically such that it will always tolerate them.
And cat people usually have a sense of like room reading ability for the most part.
They're also just like they're awesome animals.
And you can get like really good ones for like literally zero dollars because everybody
picks cats based on like the incorrect selection criteria.
Like they'll go in and be like, oh, like I want this really pure breed of this really like tiny kitten that's like this one specific.
You know, this one specific strain that's only raised in Tokyo or something.
None of this matters, right?
Like if you get like a purebred cat who's like an asshole, then it's just going to be like the shittiest pet ever.
My, my successful story of adopting the greatest cat in the world in the U.S.
was walking into the shelter and saying like, I want the fucking like biggest.
strongest cat you have,
that like,
likes me,
right?
So I walked into the thing and I,
I was like,
oh my God.
Like this thing is like 18 pounds of pure muscle.
He's like twice as long as the rest of the cats.
He's awesome.
And there was like a plexiglass top over the ceiling for his,
for his cage.
And,
I was like,
why is there like a ceiling?
And they were like,
he can jump out.
And it was like,
oh my God.
He's like a seven foot vertical.
Like this is just an absolute beast of a cat,
man.
I feel like you're a big cat guy.
Like you could get like a leopard or like a tiger.
i can imagine you're doing that like joe exotic look is exotic i i put a tweet out recently where
i said something like i'm like deeply confused by all the guys who like they make their first
hundred k and they ball out with like a watch or like a lambo or something because it just seems like
you're going to be so much happier if you get a huge cat right like if you get one of the huge cat
breeds that like roughly likes people um
you know like you get the lambo and you're like oh the women i'm gonna get the women with the
lambo you're gonna get fucking 20 times more women with like a lynx on a leash right like walking
through town with your huge links you really you really think that a lamo is going to outperform
this in terms of pulling it just doesn't make any sense like you haven't thought it through they are like uh
At a certain point, like if you have like a dog or something, I'm pretty sure they can't just one shot the dog though.
Like if the dog pisses them off, they can just like eat it.
Cats are like really, really strong pound for pound.
Like my like 18 pound cat can play tug of war against dogs that are like 50 or 60 pounds and it's like even.
Yeah.
Cats are honestly somewhere stronger than people realize too.
Like their reflexes are and they're faster as well.
So actually very dangerous animals.
No, cats also have like a bacteria in their mouth that, like even now it's dangerous because a lot of antibiotics, like it's starting to get to the point of like the generalized strain of it is like antibiotic resistant.
I was looking this up because I got bit by a raccoon a while ago.
And so I was looking at like common hand bite injuries in the U.S.
And I think like the most common cause of amputation in the U.S. comes from cat bites.
Because if you get bit by this shit and there's an antibiotic resistant strain, like, what do you do?
Like you could theoretically bake your hand with an infrared light like I did.
But I think most people.
I either think that won't work or don't really want to bake their hand.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like, yeah, if you get into a fight with a cat, you're actually sort of fucked because
like you may beat the cat in the end.
Like you may be able to like stomp on it or something, but like if it bites you in a limb
that has like a bunch of connective tissue or stuff like that like probably just cooked,
probably just cooked.
Maybe in the future people are going to use CRISPR to engineer these like venomous cats.
that just like assassinate people if you if you get shit because i think even their claws have uh
like some some bacteria or virus it's like cat scratch fever or something if you get scratched by them
like they're literally just like these 12 pound bio weapons like they're they're super optimized
hyper predators they can fit through everything like they're just uh and they're so funny to watch too because like
At a certain point when you're so much, like you're so fast and good at escaping from things and you're so good at killing things that are smaller than you, I think they just like stop caring about like doing like ridiculous behaviors in public.
So you see all those like that's where all the goofy cat memes come from.
They're just like they're flexing on you.
It's like the Bronze Age pervert, the control of space.
I want to fuck off guys.
Take care.
Have a good one.
Thanks for the advice.
Take care.
See you, man.
Godspeed sales.
We could start getting into like big cat autism.
Like that might be a good one for crypto actually.
What is big cat autism?
like analyzing big cats a lot no it's like i mean like those guys who like uh get really into
watches and they're like oh like this specific like api royal oak is like valued at like 1.2 million
because it's a one of seven with this dial color or like this skeletonized frame like uh
we could get into like the different like uh f f
What is it?
It's like there's like F1, F2, F3 of like the big jungle cats when they're like, like
how many strains down they are from like the original like master breed of like an actual
feral like tiger or something.
Yeah, true.
Yeah.
I wonder if I can even have a cat in this place.
Should probably look that up before I get one.
Yeah.
So crypto, I didn't even discussing crypto.
Markets still crabbing.
All markets, giga crabbing.
I wonder if the CRISPR guy launching a meme coin is real.
I would probably buy that coin, but it's probably going to get pump and dump by whoever launches for them.
The Chinese guy who invented CRISPR who went to jail for three years for taking the AIDS out of the baby, out of the fetus.
Oh, yeah?
He tweeted that he's going to launch a meme coin maybe to fund research.
This is what I guess was predicted, right?
Yeah, that's true.
Do you think anyone buys it?
I don't know.
Maybe it goes to like 3 mil, 5 mil?
I don't know.
What do you think?
I'm being called by my landlord.
I think she like psychically heard me thinking about adopting a cat.
And now she's calling me to tell me that it's banned or some horrible news.
I'm going to ignore this call.
But I don't know.
I honestly have no idea what to value any coin in the market right now because there's such like a,
you know, like you there used to be like a floor, but now there's like, I think,
I think like the GNI coefficient of like M caps on coin launches has just gotten really big,
right? Like it can either go to literally like 52k or, uh,
or like a few mill or something.
But like it's not evenly distributed from what I've seen at all.
True.
I'm going to order some delivery right now.
Wait.
I almost got a vegetarian one by accident.
It's crazy.
Oh, God.
They're going to have to do a house visit to let me adopt a cat, bro.
What's wrong with that?
I just want to see the cat has a safe home, right?
I guess.
It's just like, uh...
In the U.S., it's so easy.
Like, you walk in, you're like, I want that one.
And they're like, oh, my God, like, somebody actually wanted to adopt a cat that wasn't just a kitten.
Because in the U.S., everyone only wants, like, the really young ones because they're like, all kittens are so cute, right?
True.
And then the cat grows bigger and they're like, fuck, it stopped being cute.
I don't like it anymore, right?
So I think you just get by like on so much on so much cat lover cred if you like the big ones that they never consider whether.
And it also sort of doesn't matter in the U.S.
Because like everyone just sort of lets their pets do whatever the fuck they want.
And like cats are, they're actually not really big wanderers.
I've had my, like my guy will go out for like, sometimes he'll disappear for like two weeks and then come back.
But like they are very centered on like whatever territory you get them used to.
And they feel sort of like, you know, like they're comfy around it.
So it's not like dogs where they're like they get lost and they're just like retarded.
So they can't come back because they're seven miles away and they don't even remember what their house looks like anymore.
I feel like getting a cat's based.
I feel like we should have an office cat too.
Yeah, I was trying to get, I was trying to get the big boy to bring in some of his dogs,
but I guess he said that the people in the office would scare him. So office cat is way better.
But I also think that like cat allergies are just super common. But it's also kind of a scam.
Like I think Kyle is actually allergic to cats, but I guarantee you if he lived with a cat for like
a week, the cat allergies just go away. Like I was also very allergic to cats.
Yeah, allergies are real actually. Yeah.
Like four years ago, I was super allergic to cats and I just decided to adopt one anyway because I was like I just don't I don't believe in this. Like I refuse to believe that I cannot live with this animal and have eyes that aren't like constantly red while I'm sneezing. Like that doesn't make any sense. And then it eventually just stopped. It was like two to four weeks. Yeah.
Allergies basically come from the fact that like people live in environments that are too clean so they don't get exposed to
Allergens right so you can just get exposed like the allergy treatments that they give kids nowadays. It's just like yeah
You get exposed to more and more of it like in a gradual progressive pace and now lo and behold you're not allergic
Yeah, they literally just gradually ramp up.
It's like, it's like the meme thing of the guys who, do you remember there was that
YouTuber who was like trying to make himself immune to like every single venomous snake in the world?
And so he worked at like some sort of like a zoo or something.
And every day he would like give himself this cocktail injection of like 60 snake venoms and
then gradually like ramp the dosage.
And eventually he was like.
I'm immune, bro.
There's no, there's no snake in all of North America that could bite me and have it have
any effect.
He must be inspired by that Monty Python skit with like the cup of snake blood or whatever.
I can't remember.
I never saw it.
It's a good skill to have, but not very useful.
It seems really funny to like flex to women.
Like imagine like first date type shit and you're like, uh, she's like, so tell me about
myself and you're like, I've been waiting for this.
I've been waiting for this.
I would honestly just use it to win prop bets with strangers.
Be like, let's say you bring the snake and everyone in that region knows is like,
we'll kill you.
And then you just bet everyone that I just act on me.
Like, I bet this snake.
I can handle a bite from this snake.
And then everyone will like bet a hundred bucks each that you can't possibly survive it.
You just clean the room out.
Because like, you happen to be the one guy that like train years to be immune to the snake.
It was like you were telling me about the, uh,
Like the Bali scam where you go to the temple and they have like, there's a man who's trained a monkey to go and like steal your sunglasses or something.
But then he all comes over and he like does a bunch of like weird tricks with his hand.
And then the monkey comes over and gives him the sunglasses and he pretends that he's gotten them back for you.
And he's like, here you go.
And then you're so grateful you tip him.
And like this is his income generation.
Yeah.
Mechanism. Honestly, a great scam. Great entertainment. Like, everyone feels better at that experience. Even if they were told that that is a pure scam, they like, I felt regret that they stole my phone or my sunglasses and now I feel euphoric that I got it back. So. Yeah. It's like, they want to be sold the story.
I'm going to make a cat coin.
Bro, do you remember?
Do you remember there was like a two-month period where the market's like primary point of contention was like whether cat or dog coins had a higher market cap based on like the animal?
Yes.
We should honestly get you a cat and then look and then Lucas cat coin will launch and we trade it on Oxfine.
The Lucas cat.
It's not going to have a very high market cap.
I could run a great coin for my old cat, though.
I have so many videos.
Like he also, over the years, he like adopted a lot of my like weird.
like general quirks and it would get to the point where like we we would just like sit there
doing like goofy shit at each other and he would just like mimic everything I did back like a parrot
or he would come over and like while I'm podcasting he like sits at like the mic like trying to
like yell into the other thing when I stopped talking like he's like this is what we're doing
we're both we're both like making noises into the microphone and you stopped so now it's my turn
Imagine if like in our future live streams, imagine our future live streams we're just like petting a cat the whole time like in Austin Powers.
Yeah, no, we have to get we have to get like the super villain background in like a some sort of like a fireplace.
We're wearing like a velvet robe.
petting a cat on our laps. The only problem with those situations is like they always have a
fat cat, which I think it's just like it's really bad. Like fat cats are really, really, really bad
animals. Everything about cats becomes better when they are like in shape.
Because they start like really energetic and they move around and stuff.
At some point, like it's like how if you feed a cobra like six chicken eggs, it just goes to sleep for six months.
Cats do the same thing.
They're just lazy as fuck when they're fat.
They're like, I don't have to hunt.
I don't have to know how to do anything.
I'm just going to sleep here in the sun all day.
We get a pet snake too.
I feel like a year, year the snake.
Have you seen baby snake videos?
They're actually really cute.
Yeah, snakes actually have pretty cute faces in general.
I'm just worried about like the biblical connotations.
Like I feel like I feel like there's a non zero chance.
It was just like meaningful and as like a class of animals, they maybe they're just spooky.
Like I had a lizard growing up and he seemed pretty nice, but also I can't tell you that
if he randomly 50xed in size, he wouldn't try and eat me, right?
I think a snake is probably the same way.
Snakes wouldn't eat you though.
I mean, they might constrict you.
But I'm saying like if it was big enough to kill me like it might at some point whereas like I'm pretty confident that my cat wouldn't there's a bunch of studies that say like that cats would if you were but I think that's honestly just for asshole owners because there's a ton of really really big cats that like you know like a tiger can totally eat the zookeeper at any point right?
It's like well within his means.
But like they don't usually.
Sure.
And tigers are much more wilded than like house cats.
True.
I mean, what are some of the good pets?
What about bears?
You can do with bear.
I've gotten into birds a little bit lately because of some outside influences here.
But like the outside influences in question are perking up and looking over at me.
But I...
I think the main issue with birds is that they always wake up at 4.30 and then they scream as loud as they possibly can.
And then they, they shit while flying and they don't really care where they're shitting.
Like, if those things about birds could be mitigated to some extent, I think they're awesome pets.
But if they can't, I think you're kind of fucked.
It's true.
I don't know if bears are not bullish.
It's true.
If bears are for eating.
Have I seen grizzly men?
Do you have a grizzly man?
I don't know. I've seen grizzly bears.
What about frogs?
Frogs are actually like really, like I really like them as animals.
I had a, I had like a high school biology teacher who had like his entire like the right side wall of his classroom was just filled with like aquariums that had like all these different kinds of frogs in them.
And I don't know.
Like frogs are pretty chill.
They don't really like.
I'm not going to like cuddle with you or something, but as far as like a thing that sits there and looks at you with sort of good vibes.
Like they just feel lucky somehow.
I don't know.
Actually, that was like one business idea that CERN was saying last year, which is like to do like a zoo.
So like Su-Zoo Zoo, being doing in Thailand.
And then I'm just going through and like introducing you the animals.
Wait, why are we never done the Su-Z-Z-O-O?
Soon.
I love Warner Herzog.
I didn't realize he was eaten by the bear.
I never saw that from, I've only seen the one where the trappers, the Siberian trappers,
and the dude is like preparing the traps for three seasons.
And he's showing you how he lives like, he's basically like, he's setting these elaborate
traps for animals to fall into the whole summer and spring and fall.
And then in the winter, he goes and checks if anyone died from the trap and then he collects the food.
Not bad.
I should check that one.
Those huge turtles are, I guess my main thing is that like reptiles generally aren't like, they're not like the most cuddly of animals.
They're sort of like interesting to have around, but they never like come up and like sit on your lap really in a way that they're like asking to be petted.
And they actually, okay, my lizard would like wander around my, but it's also like you have to have a heating pad and like a lamp.
So like you have to like warm up the lizard to like charge him up before he starts going around.
And when he's cold, he just sits there.
Right.
So you let him out of the cage and then he's cooling down the whole time unless you're following him around with like an infrared lamp to like solar charge him.
So he sits on your lap and at some point he just like, he stops responding to your movement because he's like, I like my, my circulatory system has stopped heating me to the degree required that I can respond to like your physical inputs and outputs.
I will now go into hibernation.
Yeah.
Yeah, someone should camp the domain, I think.
Grizzly man.
Check it out.
It would suck ass to, uh, like, there are so many of these examples of like the guys who go out and it's like, you're living among the wilded animals and everything is going well for 11 years.
And then right when you feel like you really like know your shit, you just get eaten.
Like this is probably like one of the most common like white man like outdoor tropes.
Uh, just takes one. You know, just takes one.
I wonder why the bear ate him, probably because he was hungry, but like, if he'd
anything wrong.
I know, that's like the annoying thing is maybe it wasn't even his fault.
Like maybe the bear was just like, like, maybe the bear just walked in on his wife getting
like railed by like another bear and he's like, fuck, like, I'm so mad.
So he just like took it out on this guy and it was not his fault at all.
You know, it's honestly surprised humans don't get eaten more often because
Like biologically, like humans are two-
We get mugged by everything.
Well, we're literally 2.4 out of five on like the Apex Food Chart.
Like I don't know if you know the Apex Food Chart.
It's just like this.
general like food chain density like when you are higher on the food chain like your like the
ratio of your proteins is different and the ratio of like what you like what what what your
biomass efficiency is is different as well like that's why like you know like in islami
they say don't eat predators in part because like you like the energy you get from them is like
different right
So the idea is that like humans like food chain wise
We're like like barely above plants. We're like a little bit about plants, but there's almost like very few things that a human can eat that then eats another thing
Like like how many animals can you eat that can eat other animals if you didn't have all these tools
Right so it's kind of interesting thing
So like like bears should just always be eating humans when they see them. They should be like that human looks great
I think they're really, I think training is the key, right?
Because the human has these tricks.
They have these tricks that they have, you know.
Yeah, we are a little tricky.
Fences and stuff and like other food.
Spears are huge, dude.
Spears are sort of O.P.
Because we had that shit back in like caveman days, bro.
Like if I can like stab you from like 10 feet away, that's kind of spookiest shit for a bear.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
And I imagine you're a bear.
Bears have evolved.
Probably evolved to the point that they're like,
they're teaching their kids like, yeah,
there will be these humans walking around.
They may have at least spears.
Now they have guns, I think, but we don't know.
But they have at least spears.
Yeah.
They probably have like a blood memory of just getting speared because like that's the
shitty thing about it is like most other times when you're like getting into it with another
animal.
It's like you're at least if you are putting yourself at risk of getting hurt, you're at least
going to be able to hurt them, right?
But then spears just completely take that away and now you can just get stabbed without
even like getting a swipe in.
Like you can't even get the guy back.
He just poked a hole in you.
It's really fun.
Another thing I learned from Asia too is like, uh,
Like, and this is true with both fruits and pets, but like the random pets that we have sort
of settled on as being like the common good ones, they're kind of just the ones that you should
do in the same way as like the random fruits that you can go to the grocery store and buy,
like they're just the best fruits.
Like whenever I buy the weird fruits down in Asia and I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
Like maybe this is going to be the one that I love a ton and it's like better than
like strawberries or something.
And it just never is.
And I'm like, you know.
You're eating exactly the fruit that you're supposed to eat.
Yep.
Everyone gets some fruit.
You're looking at exactly the pets that you should get, right?
Like you don't actually want like many of these goofball pets.
Like having like some sort of like ridiculous boa constrictor.
You probably should just get a cat.
Probably right.
I mean, even having that lizard, like I got I literally like if you go and Google like easiest lizard to raise, it's bearded dragon, right?
Like it's a super easy pet, super good like starter pet.
But I still was like, you know, this doesn't really make a lot of sense as a pet.
Like I've sort of like imported this little thing that's a zoo into my bedroom, right?
Like you just keep it in like a zoo and maybe sometimes you interact with it.
But like there's not that much interacting that goes on with like a lizard or something like that.
uh whereas like all of the other pets like who was the uh yeah like this guy this guy's saying
he saw someone walking a ferret down a street ferrets are honestly not bad pets at all the main
thing is they they just smell weird all the time and there's nothing you can do about it but like
they're really calm when i was growing up they were really calm when i was growing up in the states
they're like everyone i knew had like a ferret or hamster um
I think they used to have kids raise them as like the like my starter pet where they can take care of it all by themselves.
I don't know.
I didn't like them.
Most of the weasel shaped animals are pretty fun.
Hmm.
Hamsters are pretty cool.
Rabbits, I had a friend who had rabbits.
I had a neighborhood rabbits, but they were so smelly, I felt.
I hate rabbits.
Rabbits are like the worst pet of all time, man.
I had a friend in college who lived with this guy who was like, they were all leasing this apartment.
And they had one entire room that was dedicated to this fucking like free range rabbit.
And it would just go around the house like a cat or something.
But like...
I didn't realize how big rabbits get when they're not like being predated upon and they have no sort of like constraints on what they can eat.
So this rabbit is like bigger than the size of a house cat.
It's just this huge badass rabbit that goes around eating all of the like iPhone chargers and cords and just shitting everywhere.
It was so retarded.
Was it cute?
Not really.
Yeah.
No, it like it gets to the point where it's so annoying that any cuteness it has is completely offset.
And the fact that like, it's like cute when you first get there.
And then when you realize that it's just going to be shitting on the floor all the time, you're just like, dude, like this is fucking ridiculous.
Like this is not worth it.
It also, they're not like cuddly.
They're weird, anxious animals.
Rabbits.
are such huge pushy pussies dude like uh they won't even bite you if if you like catch one
like if you catch a rabbit in the wild it might try to like scratch you a little but it won't bite
you like they just have no will to live they're like a ball of anxiety you can scare them so much
that they just die on their own uh they're just not like they're not no vitality to rabbits
terrible yeah
Is B&B chain cooking more than Solana?
Yeah, I see like a quarter of Bull X revenue is BSENA as opposed to a Solana.
75% is still Salon.
But I have some friends who are saying like it's more like AI.
They say, and I quote, AI Nigerian slop.
So I don't know.
What do you think?
I mean, I've seen a ton more about B&B in general on the timeline.
I'm seeing all of the...
i'm seeing all of the like oh like you're not making it on salana you think you're going to
catch the next runner on salana like bridge to bc bro like that's where all the fun is uh
like oh bc season bc season so i assume that something is going on there or someone's trying
to make something go on there but i somewhat doubt or someone doubt the idea of the bc season
like longer term but
I think you can have like if you have coin base supporting base and finance supporting the NB chain,
you can create mechanisms where like okay, medium coins run. But I think all these mean coins, like you say, like these coins make no sense.
Like the lore is just like, like you know, Moodang makes sense because Moodang is like okay, like the animal exists. It is popular.
coin launches on slana right peanut makes sense because like animal exists uh becomes famous coin
then exists whereas i feel like bmb memes are like just completely schizzerrandom like like the lore
you have to basically follow like esoteric like bmb chain lore you know like saffi's really into this
stuff i think he's like he's only he's number one piano on bmb chain
the last two weeks so so he's been cooking but he's like you know it's just like hunting all day
like mac extracting it's like you know um and it's all about like who liked what tweet
who replied to what tweet and like which one are going to go online that i've noticed about like
the more chinese a market gets the more it's based on like the like social alignment or uh
social signals of various things
Yeah, yeah. Like, he was showing me to the coin. He's like, bro, Cizzi interacted with it and you're fading. Bro, like, he interacted, you know, and it's like, okay.
He interacted and you're fading. CZ CZ liked and then replied and you have not purchased yet. That was 17 minutes ago. You are sidelined.
Yeah, it's over for you. So, yeah.
i don't know tron tron seems dead already even though i mean it comes and goes but the
issue is it's just too mogg by it's too mogg by uh coinbase and and binance so it doesn't
it doesn't have the pipeline like can you buy a tron meme can it go on binance no because tron
itself is not on coinbase yet so it's just like this thing where you know it's upside
is capped i think the only chains you still have uncapped upside or salana uh
Because the salina meme coin, you get access to like both sides.
The main issue is that there haven't been enough famous new animals.
There haven't been enough like things.
I think Melania mugged everyone.
We need more famous animals.
Why are no coins running?
It's because there's no famous animals.
Like we ran out of animal celebrities.
If we can just start making more famous animals, coins will go up again.
Salano will go to a thousand if you have more famous animals.
It's just that simple.
I don't make the rules.
Yeah.
It's because they ban TikTok too.
We have no, this is the cascade.
They ban TikTok or at least ban for download on certain devices and certain regions,
destroys TikTok viewership in the West.
And so the cute animal videos never run up.
And so the cute animal coins never exist in the first place because nobody even knows what the cute animals are because they didn't get enough like to TikTok.
It's like abortion.
They've aborted the meme coins.
Yeah.
They cut it off at the source.
It's not even like abortion. It's like chemical castration.
Like they've, uh, the, the serms never existed in the first place.
It's about sexema. The meme coins are taking vasectomies.
Yeah. Might be over. How would you make a famous animal now if you had to?
Like what do you think is the like most famous animal that could be created?
I mean, it's tough. I don't think you can just like come up and make one.
Like I think the internet has to produce something really funny over like billions of iterations.
I don't know if you can just like do it but I don't know like Moodang the way it ran was really
funny right you gotta like find some other animal that's a bit weird but like it's cute
it's hard like it's probably time for another monkey or primate Harambe was last famous one I just
never really liked the monkey coins that much honestly uh like how's co-coco
how's co-coco doing have you put up a chart of Kokodo
Must be giganooking, I assume.
I haven't checked the chart.
Yeah, it's like down only.
I mean, dogs are just gigacooked.
I feel dog coins look like ass.
Yeah.
Let's pop cat at 20 cents.
Which one?
I think my internet might just be cooked.
This one?
Probably not this one.
That's the wrong one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right spelling, though, right?
No, actually.
I think they stole the right spelling.
What's the right spelling?
I think they spelled it COCO RO.
You're going to accidentally show like the wrong coin to our audience.
Is it this one?
It's three on base.
This looks like it.
Yeah, it's this one.
But yeah, it pumped a bunch because it's like the new dog of Kavosu, the original dojo owner.
And it's like each dog pumps less than the previous one.
Like she had Neiro, now she has Koko.
Like it's kind of just over for dogs.
Yeah, I think cats are just clearly the better animal. Wow. Bitcoin is just, I haven't seen crabbing like this. I haven't seen crabbing like this in just ages, man. Like, look at this. Look at the range that it's been closing in for the last week. It's like, I mean, I guess this one was pretty good too. This was some good crabbing. It is bullish, I think. Well, this one wasn't bullish. This one went down after, but maybe this one will go up.
Usually crabbing is bearish, but sometimes it's bullish.
That's my experience.
Do you think bullish crabbing?
Usually crabbing is bearish and I'm being honest.
But sometimes it's bullish.
Like now it could be bullish.
It feels like markets gearing up for a next leg.
Everyone's bare soul, but it's still under $30.
Like, I mean, you cannot have gone down this much and have like no short squeeze on like anything.
And a short squeeze cannot be like of 4% run on ether.
Like that is not a short squeeze.
So maybe the short squeeze was already the pump to 95.
But like I, I just don't know.
Like it seems like.
It's been consensus among a lot of people that it's like over and they're fine to just short massively.
And these are, again, a lot of people who literally didn't know what shorting was like three months ago.
So like when they start shorting, it's usually a sign that shorting is not like the best market strategy.
But I don't know.
Yeah, like the number one Google thing is like are we in a recession?
And it's like.
Yeah.
You know.
These are all just words to define what already happened.
You know, it's not has no meaning really.
So should I have sold like should I have sold?
Should I have?
Yeah, you should have sold higher like that's I saw it.
You don't have to Google search it.
You don't have to Google search like uh you just look.
Should I sell hype at 33.33? Yes. I should.
Should I saw ox at three point? No, just kidding. You should never sell ox.
It's been my strategy.
i did all of my selling we're thinking about not rebranding now actually look this
wait really well here's the idea uh so raja was just like guys you know if you if you do a rebrand
especially if you do a token migration it's gonna be a pain in the ass you know ox already
has name recognition it's easier to just like uh improve the ox brand that is to make like new
brands like casually make new brands and um
Yeah, it just becomes like this thing where if you stick with it, like, you know how like Justin's on Tron, like he just kept doing Tron.
Like he didn't like rebrand it like six times.
Yeah.
And then he actually worked.
I mean, I know this argument.
I've made this argument.
I made this argument like three months ago.
And then I made the different argument because we just, we all of us, all of us are just flipping around saying.
Yeah.
You know, it's like one month I will say the thing and then you will say the opposite of the thing.
And then the next month we trade positions and we argue against each other, but from the different side.
And then we do this.
Yeah.
I think the other issue that we were realizing is like, I'm just talking to some of the ox investors.
And it's like if you do a rebrand and then you don't get this like big community support around it and like investors like showing it and it just looks like a it could look like a like a cringe also.
Like imagine you do this like big rebrand.
Like it could just look like an attempted rug, right?
Like it could just look like you're trying your run.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it looks like, yeah, that's the problem because it looks like you're running away from
Fudd also as opposed to just like facing it and like clearing it.
Power fucking the Fudd into nothingness. I do, I just, we can start calling it OX.
We can start calling it OX. I think you can do that. Maybe instead of dot fun you do like dot something else like,
We can do not almost anything else, but like dot fun is not, uh, you know, like, I mean, this was even an issue with me when I was thinking like, do I want to put like 500K onto a dot fund website? And it's like I literally like.
you know like literally like working there like uh i know like all the people involved like i
know that you guys are not going to try and scam me but like i'm just like it feels this is one of
those things that if i like told my uncle like i put this much money on a dot fun exchange and now
it's gone he would just be like you're a fucked heart like it's dot fun like uh what do you even
talking to me about like go use a brokerage account you retard yeah so but but people seem to
hate dot market ox dot markets
And then, I don't like dot market.
There's a few others available.
I honestly don't like dot XYZ either.
And anytime you have like, you have like a short just letter ticker, like OX.
dot XYZ is literally just like words.
It's a keymash.
It's like we didn't actually generate a URL.
We just keymash the fuck out of our, out of our mechanical keyboards.
And then came back with this.
Nobody at OX uses a mechanical keyboard.
We banned them.
They're fucking too obnoxious.
Everyone uses nearly silent Mac butterfly keyboards.
For sure.
Yeah, I kind of feel like trenches are going to come back.
Like I feel like there's no other game in town.
Like people are saying, okay, we're going to switch to VC coins.
Like, okay, maybe bearer chain, proof of liquidity.
I do like Barra.
I've been tweeting about it recently.
But in terms of like nonlinear returns for the masses, it's just, it comes back to
meme coins.
There's nowhere else to go.
Like Moodang was launched in similar conditions to now, right?
Let me send you to Bull X.
It's like doing ads for Bullocks, but I just send you.
I mean, our volume is similar, but I try to find it.
You'll just like giant pump and then dump on volume.
Here, I'll send you the link.
I'll just post that.
Doom Dashboard.
Yeah, so this is full X volume.
But if you look at last August, right, it was in August-September conditions that
Mudang was launched.
You know what I mean?
It's like that like bad times make tough make good men thing.
It's like tough times make good meme coins.
Like you can't have good meme coins produced in good times.
You can only have good mean coins produced in hard times.
Like, real multiples are made when nobody's buying, et cetera, et cetera.
Like, uh, I mean, everything, everything honestly is like, we could always just leave forever.
Like, that's always an option.
It's always totally possible.
But like, realistically, man, if it's going to bounce, like, it looks like a lot of things are bottomed.
Like, beam coins are all sitting up.
Like, they're not even, like, going down, like, hugely anymore.
Usually they're just kind of like, like, they hit a plan.
Yeah.
Like, it's literally like, cable top flat.
Yeah, like definitely.
Like a bunch of AI meme coins put in capitulation wigs the other day.
I think something like Zero Bros doing like a bounce off of two cents to three cent, it's
like already like a huge move.
I don't know.
Yeah, like it did a two and a half to seven cent move a few days ago.
Um, I'm not.
But also am I buying meme points right now?
And the answer is no.
But you shouldn't necessarily take that as like, uh, like a meaningful statement from me because I'm just notoriously like a pussy.
So like I'm never the guy that buys the lows anyway.
So you shouldn't be like.
The Lucas Indicator is telling me not to buy the lows right now, right?
Because it's like it will never tell you to buy the lows.
Like I only buy confirmation and I buy like the most obvious confirmation of all time.
Like I buy confirmation when like 98% of other people have already bought confirmation.
Yeah.
So that means like you don't buy ox last summer at like zero three or zero two five.
You buy it at like three.
During the prison, during the prison dump, that was literally the only time I've ever sold ox to like.
I think I cumulatively took like 50k of profit on ox at like not a profit.
I took I took 50k of like realized enormous losses on ox at like the absolute like peak prison bottom lows and then didn't sell at all during the rest of this.
and am still holding.
And like at some point, if it keeps crabbing, I'll start being like, you know, like maybe I should take take more loss this year.
I think this was like the one thing also during like the Hefe Dow Fudd that like, so we're like a few people that got really mad at me.
But it's like you can only get really mad at me if you don't know what my wallets are.
Like.
Yeah.
If you know what my wallets are, you look and you're just like, wait, this fucking retard played it way worse than I did.
Like, how is this even possible?
Study insider training.
I think Ox is just one of, I think Ox is one of the most reflexive assets because as it goes up, also haters get more quiet.
And then they like just don't comment because they're like, okay, whatever, I don't want to talk about it.
But then as it goes down, like they come out of the woodwork, right?
And so you get this like reflexivity effect.
which makes for like really interesting price action volatility.
Like it goes through periods of like just flatlining and then it goes like up to like 10x
in like two months and then down like 80% in one day kind of thing.
So it's like this really funny price action.
Like ox options honestly should be the next product we do.
Like call and put options on ox.
Yeah.
Like ox options would be really good.
Like when you were floating around like the barrier options idea, that was like
That was amazing.
Yeah, we can't be barriers, but we can do like normal options.
Fuck.
I just like new things, right?
And like options are like...
like i need new new ways to like lose money uh so that i can tell myself i'm learning
so i can go on to a stream and tell everyone this is what i've learned by losing like
seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars let me tell you i don't know how to make the money
but theoretically because i what i did lost me this money if you just did the opposite
you would have made money right like you would have to
Have you heard that Stanton Druck and Miller quote though about learning from markets, which is he said he learned nothing from blowing up in dot com.
He knew he wasn't supposed to do that.
It was dumb.
He didn't learn anything.
I thought it was pretty funny.
No, but that's basically, that was basically my first cycle too.
Like I actually.
Like, because I was just like university students sitting in like the basement on like a ton of amphetamines just like randomly clicking around with like is just totally aimless doing like a bunch of ICO things.
Like it wasn't even like I was investing.
I was just like how do I get into the discord group of XYZ ICO?
How do I how do I get a ticket on this?
Yeah.
And then it would just be like either you succeed and you get money or you don't and you don't get money.
But then also I was like too young.
And so I was like just pressured into like gig a holding all of it.
And so I had like that was my most historic round trip.
Like I I think that cycle top like I made more money that cycle than I did in 2020,
21. And honestly, I think still like I didn't break that high until like I don't know like a year into this cycle.
And I round tripped like all of it. Like I think I took like 50K out for like a down payment on a house.
That was like all I exited the first cycle with. I put in like 2K and I exited with like 50k.
And that was like a 90 like 9 or something percent drawdown like easy.
Like more than 99 actually. Yeah. It's really bad. And then I looked back on it and I thought like.
You know, I'm going to do it better this time.
But I never thought about like how I was going to do it better this next time.
I was just like, I'm going to do it.
Like, I'm going to power fuck it somehow.
And then in 21, I realized like maybe I should think about this more.
Like maybe I should actually like make conscious decisions towards a goal.
Yeah.
Oh no.
This is Mike.
It's okay.
It's okayish for me.
Can you hear it now?
Is it like, uh, maybe I'm, oh, here.
What about now?
I can just keep turning it up more and more and more.
This is good now.
It's a good now.
I'm using this, uh, goofy interface thing.
So this one, I actually have to set the gain levels, whereas the other one just lets us rip.
Sue's just using AirPods.
He's like, this shit is all autism.
Who cares?
How does it sound?
It sounds okay, right?
AirPods.
Yeah, sounds fine.
It doesn't really matter.
I just, you know, you know me.
I like holding the mic.
It feels very podcaster by jeans.
It does feel like we're on a variety show when we do it there with the mics.
Yeah, I like, this is something that I really want, like, the Zoom or streamers to start doing.
Like, I want them to start carrying around, like, handheld mics.
Like, when they have those little, like, a clip-on wireless things and they hold it up to people, it always feels like...
Like, it's its own, like, sort of cartoonish, ironic goofiness.
But I do think it would be sillier to have, like, a zoomer come around with, like, a broadcast, Mike, like, larping as, like, a journalist.
True.
This is good.
That's what a podcast is, really.
Like, you're interviewing yourself for an audience of people who might not really want you to, but they're there anyway.
I think we should get more guests on.
We could toss...
He tossed one of my buddies in. I think he's floating around. Let's see.
Oh, yeah, Arthur Hayes bought hype as well. It's good news for hype.
This guy just said, by the way, your mic is raped and you sound like you're 100 feet away.
Me or you? He said me. Lucas? Yeah.
You honestly did sound like that like about five minutes ago, but it fixed itself.
I just turned the gain up. Like I had it on like zero.
it never occurred to me that i could go like an hour and a half of talking with gain on zero
and it was too quiet for anyone to hear and they would just not say anything like i assumed
because we're getting like active comments from the stream i was like well surely there must be
some feedback loop right that's the whole how is our speaking of stream how is our abstract earnings
from the stream
I don't know. I don't even know how to check abstract right now or like what's going on there.
I mean, I do know how to check it, but I would have to go back to my like abstract profile.
And I don't know what it shows. Like I don't know if it's going to show my stream key when I go in there.
And if I show our stream key, then like some random person can actually just broadcast off of our account.
So like I have to figure out what I can click on before I go back and look at that on stream.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so my buddy is listening to this stream.
They said the mic trouble was transitory.
Honestly, I might have also just not like there was a period where I just put the mic down on the table.
Like when I went to smoke and I was like, I just forgot about it.
So it may have been that.
True.
If you podcast for long enough, all podcasts become podcasts like about podcasting.
Like, yeah, like, this is my mic.
This is the, this is the difficulties I'm experiencing with it right now.
This is today's technical troubles.
Yeah.
Probably most of the Joe Rogan podcast is cut out.
It's him completely.
You heard about the, In, In, In fact, we could discuss that, too.
Infinity is, um, is Christian's funds.
This is hacked for like the 50 mil, but it was insider job, apparently.
And, um...
There's a bunch of tweets spotted on Chinese Twitter.
Basically, it was an employee who had blown up buying Eith on leverage,
and then he just decided to hack 50 mil.
But then the funny thing is that he, not funny,
but the crazy thing is he then bought Eith with spot with his 50 mil,
and it's now at 35 mil.
So they're like trying to negotiate now for the hacker to return the funds.
But there's only 35 mil left.
So it's like, the number keeps going down.
I heard about the hex thing.
Oh, the hex peaties also kind of nuts.
Dude, that was like one of the funniest stories I have ever read in my life.
Who was it?
Who was the guy that did the big write-up on that?
Eric Wall.
Eric Wall did it.
He's been a big hex observer.
Yeah, this was the post.
Yeah.
There was a period when HEC is doing really well though. And like I had some normie friends that like I thought were smart. I still think are smart that were like very bullish on HEC's impulsion. So I remember looking I think I got like a bunch of air drops for something. Like all my wallets have some amount of like I don't know some stable coin on on the HECS network. But like I went and I was like.
How do I claim this?
And it's like on hex chain.
And I was like looking at how I can get on hex chain.
It was like there was like one exchange.
Like it's like you can't even use the chain.
There was like one exchange that you use.
And it just pretends.
It's like, okay, well this is like better than a chain.
It's the exchange.
You don't have to do.
any of this uh but then also i needed like some goofy i it might have been like a kyc for
sign up or just like i needed some sort of deposit that i was like i am going to spend more than
the two hundred dollars of whatever this airdrop is to like find out how to like bridge the native
asset to hex chain and like actually claim this and then it will be like i've spent two hours
claiming like 210 on hex chain
And like people will say like what did you do today Lucas and I'm gonna have to like lie.
Hex is the spiritual mascot crypto scam.
I do remember a long period of like everyone in my circles in I don't know like, oh, we have another friend in here.
We have a nice chud jack, Abby here going on.
Yeah, we can hear you.
How's it going, bud?
Yes, how's it going, guys?
Yeah.
Did you read the hex train thing?
I think I retweeted it for a bit and then, uh,
It was just so long that I was like, wait, this is taking up like my whole feed.
It's, I have to get this off.
So I unre tweeted it.
But this story was so fucking funny.
It's, it's basically like the purest example of what can happen when like, uh,
like you see, you see echo bubbles and echo chambers in like political spheres and stuff.
But it also totally happens in crypto.
And Hex created like this ridiculous, like very, uh, isolated echo chamber where everybody convinced themselves that they were going to buy this, uh,
They were going to buy this like stable coin, this algorithmic stable coin on hex because it was eventually going to be restaked because Richard Hart said something that implied that maybe one day it was going to be like re pegged.
to $1.
And so they were all like, we're all going to make a 50X on this.
But then somebody just exploited a protocol on chain and just started printing like an infinite amount of the Algo stable and diluted everyone to zero.
And like Richard had to distance himself and say like, no, I never supported this.
And yeah.
No, I did not see that.
Should I buy hex though?
Is all you're telling me?
It's definitely at a regional low.
like it's
hi sue by the way
I'm Lucas's friend
I figure I'll be amiable
you too
yeah
this was this was one of the guys we went out
shooting in the mountains with a while ago
push down some trees too dude
there were a bunch of uh
it's it's very
exciting when you find like a big enough dead tree
and uh you realize like wait like
even though this is like
a hundred feet tall and like
I don't know, like six feet around, I can still push this down this mountain because it's dead.
Well, it's like 80% of the fun of going out there is just pushing trees, pushing down dead trees.
Like you find one that's big enough and like it's a kind of scares you.
It like makes your dick shrink a little bit.
And then you start pushing on and you hear like that kind of crack at the base of it.
And then you know you can win.
And then one way or another like either you're going to like pull a muscle or it's going to
fall over and like maybe hit your friend because he's not,
he's not paying attention to it.
We were like pushing them down down like this massive like cliff onto like the cars below.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And they, uh, they, they whip really hard at the top and they're so rotted out that they just start shaking apart at the top and they hit your head.
That's the fun part.
The one, you can, you can crush someone and get a concussion at the same time.
The one that your buddy did where he like snapped the tree off like, uh, actually that might have been you, but no, I think this was him.
But it like snapped the tree off like in half and did like this whiplash thing.
And, uh,
It was just like, oh, like, that could have like taken him out.
Like, uh, yeah, you're, you're messing with death, like to a non-trivial degree each time you
push down a big tree. Yeah. Um, I've had, uh, I've had like the, like the root core, uh,
like rip out from under me and like rip my, like, rip my pants and like otherwise would have like
completely disemboweled me if I was, if I wasn't paying attention to it. Yeah, yeah. It's like that it's
it would have like castrated you instantaneously had you not reacted perfectly right that
that's what makes it fun
And then you have all the girls sitting down in the cars, like waiting.
They're like, well, it's like we did the fun gun thing.
But I guess now the boys are just like pushing trees down.
And they're like sitting like 100 feet down a mountainside as we like throw trees at them in their house.
It's endearing for them for like 30 seconds or so.
But by the time you get down, they're just all on their phones.
They're like, oh, we left?
Well, no, you could see there was one who was on her phone, but like the others were like monitoring us because they had like a sense that it's like, I don't like, I don't know for sure that these guys aren't going to like knock a tree onto us, right?
They don't actually know.
They also had a vested interest in two out of three of us surviving.
Yeah.
Like I said, it's like 80% of the fun of actually going out there is just pushing the trees over.
Yeah.
The one that I was really proud of was the one that was like, it was like super long, relatively thick, very straight, but somehow extremely light.
And I was able to throw it like a javelin perfectly.
And it comes down and just sticks into the ground like a post.
I don't think, I don't think you guys saw that, but the girls saw that.
And I was like, I feel so cool right now.
Like that was awesome.
Yeah.
It's like the most mega grug like ego trip imaginable, just pushing down trees that have been dead for like 10 years and have like 10% of their like pre-death weight, like pre-burned weight.
Because they're all like that because the whole area burned down like a few years ago, like a decade or so ago.
Yeah, I was going to say, like, I noticed that it was like one out of ten trees there that were actually alive.
Yeah, the whole, that whole area of Colorado, like the Rockies and everything, it's, most of it has been burned down at some point or another within the last, like, three.
30 years or so like you can find huge burn areas like I don't know if you notice like the whole area above my house like
There was like a huge fire there a couple years ago and like all the entire mountain range within like a couple miles of me. It's like just all like bear. Yeah. No, I mean I I learned from I learned from where I grew up that it's like you kind of got to do the burns
Manually because if you wait
Like, if you wait for the burns to happen by God, it's going to be, like, much more uncontrolled.
Well, not even necessarily.
It's like, it's like, like, California has this problem, right?
It's like bad forest management.
Like, if you have, if your forest management strategy is to just like stop fires no matter what, then you actually stop like the natural like life cycle of the forest from taking place, which depends on wildfires.
Like most every conifer in the entire like north like northern uh united states like it like some percentage of the pine cones they make are actually like designed to seed after wildfires like they can actually tell when a wildfire happens and then that's when they release their seeds like they're designed for this.
Huh.
Like, it's an evolutionary pressure that's clearly existed for, like, millions of years or something like that.
Or maybe God made it that way.
I don't know.
Something like that.
But point is, like, they need the wildfires.
The assumption is that they will burn at some point.
Have you ever talked to, like, tree care guys about, uh, because like, I, I,
I made stuff that a bunch of like tree care and landscaping guys would use to do like tree care for a brief period there.
And talking to our users, I discovered that some of them had like a sense of like a weird.
Like they developed like a weird like spirituality around this where they realized that like you have to do it in a certain way.
Like you have to fell trees in a certain way.
That appears that you're not just trying to like rip down all wildlife or else you wind up getting like, uh, like they,
they felt like the woods would be like targeting them, right? Like, like bizarre accidents would happen.
Limbs would get dropped on like their cars or machinery and just fuck everything up. Yeah, you get raped by a
windigo or something like that. Yeah, yeah. It's like, uh, mother nature is like trying to fuck you up.
because you've been disrespectful to the trees or something?
Well, I think it's just a fact that everyone who spends enough time, like, in North American forests,
especially, like, eventually, like, adopts an attitude that the forest is, like, their divorced wife or, like, their abusive wife or something like that, at the very least.
or something even worse than that.
It's like,
it's like,
will your wife rape you?
Will the Skinwalker like only just rape you,
you know?
Yeah.
I think that,
like I said,
I think that everyone has like some sense of that once that or requires some
sense of that once they spend enough time in the woods.
But,
One of my good friends actually, like, spent a lot of time doing forest management.
He's, like, a super, like, off-grid, like, no internet, like, Catholic guy.
And that's, like, his thing.
He, like, loves the woods.
And he has exactly that sensibility.
I will say, though, like, in terms of, like, engineering firms making, like, forest management stuff,
my understanding of him and like the in like the tangential like exposure I've had to like his friends and everything I uh it seems like the kind of thing that like in theory like has like a mar has like a market it could exploit like a market it could expand into but uh they all just hate it like for some spiritual reason then like they just want they just want to like sharpen their axes and their saws and use those yeah uh
They definitely have their like preferred ways to take stuff down.
It's like hard to get them out of it.
But it's also like it's hard to argue with them too because if you look at what they're actually doing like going up into a tree and being like 150 feet off the ground on some massive fucking tree.
You just kind of have to really trust your equipment.
At that point, like not just the shit that's holding you up there, but like it's a pain in the ass, right?
Like if your saw doesn't work, which is why like many of them don't use electric saws, right?
Because they've just said like, okay, like I'm not like going to be carrying around like a bunch of lithium ion batteries.
I can see how much gas I've gotten my saw when I go up in the tree, right?
So like if I run out of gas, it's kind of on me.
You just bring up a spare gas canister if you're running low or just refill it before you go up.
up and then the batteries are just too goofy because it will drain the battery dependent on like
the resistance of the chain.
So like if you're cutting through something that's like really hard or really soft, like you
can't say, oh, I have like 30 minutes of cutting, right?
It could be anywhere from 45 minutes of cutting to four minutes of cutting depending on how
much resistance little chain links are going through.
Uh, yeah.
Whereas the gas is, uh, the gas is more.
consistent with how it applies torque, I guess.
Yeah, it's more consistent, but like you said, you can just see your gas level, you know?
Like you just have a better set.
You just have a better sense of, like, your resources.
Well, I mean, you can see your battery level too.
Like the M18 stuff they used is like it would usually have three little LEDs that light up.
But no one trusts that ship.
because it loses capacity over time and everything.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, no one trusts it.
It's like, oh, my fucking phone, like, you tell him like, oh, yeah, dude, like, it has
a battery indicator now.
Isn't that awesome?
Like, please buy our fucking, like, my, my, my Mekita, electric chainsaw.
And they go like, yeah, dude, my phone says that too.
And then it's dead five minutes.
You know, like no, no entrust battery indicators anymore, I don't think.
It's like, it's like the same classic problem with like electric appliances in general.
It's like, imagine it's like this, this experiment, this thought experimenter you're applying with like electric chainsaws,
just like gas powered chainsaws.
Like apply that same thing to like,
like an electric truck like a cyber truck or something and then like an f-150 like which one would you rather bring into the woods like and like like the cyber truck could be like a trillion times stronger or whatever like you're you're going to take the f-150 every time like every time just because of gas alone
Yeah, the cyber trucks do look cool in the woods, though.
Like, they're like a goofy, like, in cities, they look sort of like, uh, interesting.
But in the woods, they actually look like they're like a paranormal aberration.
Yeah, it is pretty.
It's like a, it's like a low poly, like pop in feature in a game or something.
Yeah.
Like, you're actually wondering, like, is this shit like a mirage or something?
Especially because like in the city, it's, it's not really, uh,
You know, it's reflecting a sort of like vague beigey color, but like in the woods, it's reflecting the woods back at you.
Or the sunset.
Yeah, like this genuinely does look like a mirage.
Like this may or may not even be real.
I don't fucking know.
Yeah, they're weird vehicles. Like, I'm excited for like version two. Like I don't like the the, the it's like all the Tesla vehicles, right? Like every single one like the three, the X, the Y, whatever the S. The three especially. They're all like the first iterations are always like super experimental. Like my buddy has a or rather his father has like a.
he's like long Tesla holder guy and he's had like a like a three that was built in like the tents back before they even had like the factories properly set up it has like a
like a four-digit serial number on it.
It's got,
like,
rattles around and shit.
Yeah,
exactly.
So it was,
it's like been hand glued together and,
like,
rattles around and shit.
it's like a collector's item at this point,
right?
Just because it's like just so old and shitty.
but like,
those first iterations,
like,
were like super experimental,
right?
Like the same applies of the cyber truck.
I think.
I'm like very curious what lessons they'll have learned about it.
I think that like,
Like Elon Musk isn't the kind of guy to like like talk openly about like what like he like his self doubts or like embarrassments or anything like that especially.
But I can't help but wonder like how much it hurts for him to like see these videos of like F150s like pull like pulling cyber trucks out of like snowdrifts and shit.
Like I don't know if you've ever seen any of those videos.
Yeah, yeah.
In fact, that very cyber truck that you're thinking of that we took out the other, like a month ago, that in fact had to get pulled out of a snowdrift by an F-150.
Wow.
Yeah. And it was being driven around in that area.
There are just a lot of like really funny design decisions that they made that like I think the funniest possible outcome for like cyber truck V2 is like.
Instead of optimizing around like battery life or performance, he optimizes around continuing
reduction of polygon count.
So it's like you have this wheel well here and it's like we have one edge, two edges,
three edges, four edges, five, right?
What if he just says fuck this?
That is far too many.
We will make one edge here and one edge here.
It will have two edges, cybertruck two, two edges on the wheel wells.
Uh, I am sick and tired of having to, sick and tired of having to have manufacturers come to me and tell me there's too many parts, uh, just cut this shit out.
They already only have one windshield wiper.
Like they were like two, two fucking wipers, bro.
Like that's two servo motors.
The side of this is going to be completely flat.
We have one wiper.
It will cover the whole windshield.
And I will make the windshield shaped such that that one wiper will get just most of it at least, right?
Like, uh.
It makes the, uh, the wiper like pop out, like, it's just in like a little recess.
It's because there's a lot of polygons on that wiper alone.
Think about how much air, air resistance is, uh, being introduced.
Like, what do you think the coefficient of drag is because of this wiper?
Like, imagine.
Like, imagine if you did like, uh, like you got the Miata headlights.
But you could blink your wiper.
Yeah.
Like it, it should be able to pop in and out just like the door handles, right?
You have the Miata headlights.
God damn it.
I can't just click on the picture and have them.
I don't know how to use the internet, guys.
Anyway, you see them.
These things can wink.
They fold down, right?
So this is what the wipers need to do.
They need to be hidden.
Like, even the Miata, it has a little, like, well in here that hides the wiper.
This is a lot of what contributes to the Miata's success as a vehicle.
It's low aerodynamic drag because the wipers are hidden.
That's what allows it to achieve such high speed.
I think it's just the fact that they all smile at you.
Yeah.
I think that's way more important.
Like this one smiles and blushes and it even has little eyebrows.
I mean, sir, I'm totally joking.
Like the Miata does not, it is the slowest car in the universe.
Like, there's...
It's at a level where you almost don't even need to make optimizations towards aerodynamic drag because it's not even going fast enough, right?
It's only like at speeds above like 65 miles per hour that you even have to consider arrow.
And like the Miata has like a like I think this particular generation had like a 90 something horsepower engine.
I that sounds like a Kickstarter car thing like imagine uh some guy like post like a kickstarter for like his revolutionary new car design it's the most aerodynamic vehicle ever yet conceived and then it gets like two billion dollars in funding from like people on reddit or whatever and then they start to get and then like he starts to he starts to ship them and they have like miata engines like they like max like 65 miles an hour whatever they have like governors in them they can hardly move at all
No, there's no governor.
There's no, there's, it has an automatically regulated.
No, I'm talking about, I'm talking about this hypothetically like mega cucked Kickstarter
vehicle.
It's like perfectly aerodynamic, but for some reason it just can't move at all.
It's been governed even.
i mean this is like sports bikes actually uh except they don't have the governor in them but it's like
if you're gonna drive like a leader bike on like street roads uh you're basically just cucked all the
time unless because i mean like my r1 would literally do like 120 miles per hour in like first
year right so if you're if you're doing a legal speed you're in first gear you're revving to like
I don't know, like 5,000 RPM.
If the power band doesn't even start until like 12,000 or 14,000 RPM, like the motor
doesn't even get good until that point.
So you're just driving around in gigacuck mode, like in the range that the motor was literally
never optimized to be in because it's a, like, it's a bike that was autistically designed by
Japanese people to be driven like only on a track, even though they know most people
who buy these will not track them.
But it's like, this is just what...
what it is with bikes. You design race bikes and then nobody races them, but they still buy them anyway because they look really good.
It's like taking a like a professional sprinter or whatever, like a cheetah or something and then tying like a big like cartoon like iron ball and chain around one of its legs and then tell you to go.
I wonder what I wonder what these things are getting up to like horsepower wise.
How fast can I kill myself on one of these?
Yeah.
Well, and this is the other crazy thing is like this is like one of the more expensive motorcycles with like more weird goofy like electricals that you can get and it's like still sub 20K.
Yeah, but 13 to one compression ratio.
33 miles per gallon. That is crazy.
I buy it for the fuel economy.
Trust me.
Bikes.
Bikes were really wanting to because.
We started bike posting.
Now we're starting to talk about, first we started talking about trees and then we started talking about how we were tossing trees on a cyber truck.
And at some point, we started talking about engines.
So we've come in to this.
Everyone who came for crypto market insights is just horrified.
They're like, I don't really give a shit about how many CCs this thing is.
But I will say.
Crypto and like dangerous motorbikes go together very well.
That is true.
Like, you want to get the nice car and it's like, okay, if you want the feeling of going fast, you can get it much less expensively than with a very expensive car.
Well, you buy a nice car in a ball market and you buy a very fast, like a busa or something.
You buy one of those like after the bear done.
After after it does.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah. You go on fucking Facebook marketplace and you spend two grand to get like a 600 Cc sports bike from the year 2006.
And that bitch does like zero to 60 in like sub three seconds.
And now you're living like your eye roller.
You're dead in the next 12 hours.
Until you die.
No, there's a lot of parallels.
This looks really dangerous.
We're riding motorcycles in crypto.
Yeah.
Like like.
Because in crypto, it's like you have to blow up, right?
Like at some point, basically everyone who's made a lot of money had to have the experience of like blowing up a fuck ton of money, right?
And it's the same thing with motorcycles.
You keep crashing until you finally have the crash that either scares you out of riding motorcycles or teaches you how to drive safely.
It's exactly the same as crypto.
There's also, it goes even deeper than that.
because there's like that subtype of guy who like does uh he's like into motorcycles and he's like
kind of reasonable about it and then he eventually meets that one wrong person
And this guy loves to do tricks.
He loves like leader and a half like,
leader and a half like sport bikes and shit like that.
And he's like, yeah, man, come out with my friends sometime.
We'll like show you how to like do a wheelie or whatever.
And then he does and he's dead that same night.
Like this is exactly what it's like getting added to a group chat of all the guys.
Like dude, we're gonna CTO like this coin.
Like I have it.
Yeah, you wanna buy live bro.
On Coinbase CTOing it right now.
We're all gonna be rich.
And you just get caught up in the FOMO.
You go in with like 50% of your net worth.
And then like a week later you wake up and you're just like fever dream.
Like I'm fucking wasted.
It's all gone.
I was drunk officer.
I swear.
You're not even telling you to a police officer.
You're saying that you're telling you to St. Peter at the pearly gates.
I mean, six to CC is a fuck ton of CC, I feel.
I don't think I've ridden a bike more than 250 CCC.
Granted, it's just in Bali.
Yeah.
So America is like, uh,
We're like a giga outlier in terms of motorcycles because almost every other nation has a series of like ascending.
Like in Europe, you have to have like an A1 license or something that you can only ride like a 125cc.
And then like after like a year, you can go to 250.
And then after like 10 years of riding motorcycles, you can buy like a leader bike.
Whereas in America, it's like okay person who has just gotten your motorcycle riding license.
You are now able to buy like the fastest vehicle in the history of man.
It's also less stable than everything you've ever driven before in your life.
It is simply the most official, like the best place to live to kill yourself the fastest on a motorcycle.
Yeah.
We have the entire world beat in this metric.
It's not even close.
I damn near did it.
Like I don't know if I, I've told you Sue, but like my skull fracture brain hemorrhage incident was like just purely from like racing a motorcycle.
How fast were you going when you crashed?
I think at the time it wasn't even like super fast.
It was somewhere between like 120 and 160 on like a straightaway track.
It could either be like 150, like 150 miles an hour or like 30.
Like that's like another hilarious thing about motorcycles.
Because you're not sitting in like a cage.
You know, you don't have a seatbelt.
There's no airbags.
like if you go off it in the wrong way like you you could be going at like a speed that like doesn't
sound scary at all like again like 30 miles an hour and you will die it's like you it's like you it's
like you fly off at 30 miles an hour and you hit a tree it's like sorry man like i like let's hope let's hope
your reincarnation uh goes a little bit better like maybe you
maybe you'll have some better risk a version okay okay you guys are gonna fucking love this so do you know how
they've handled this this issue of safety in motorcycles they put them in the suits so so they have
these suits like oh they have airbags in their suits now but literally they build the airbags into
the suit so when they fly off at like 200 miles per hour they're wearing an airbag that's cool
so no one dies now fucking awesome
No, they still die.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's still fucked.
It's still fucked.
No, Moto GP is crazy because like, uh, these, these are like machines that are, they're now at the point where it's like no amount of electronic like safetys and rider driver, like, uh, riders aids and stuff like that can actually like help you at the level of power these machines have.
It's like you have like a 300 something pound motorcycle that does like almost like they're coming up on like 250, 300 horsepower for like.
stock bikes now.
So like the ones that they really ball out on and they're actually like race bikes,
they have like as much horsepower as a supra in a 300 pound machine that has two wheels.
Uh, so it, you actually, like, human reflexes cannot account for this.
Like, at some point, you're just going to get, like, bucked off and you have to pray to God that you're not going to get vaporized.
There's also, like, hilarious centripetal effects, uh, with motorcycles.
Or, like, if you, if, uh,
if you get going at like the wrong speed or whatever,
the, like, the two wheels will literally just feedback and they'll,
and they'll just, like, knock you off the bike.
Like, you can be going completely straight.
You don't hit anything.
You don't try and take a curve.
It'll just, it'll just completely lose control.
I forget what it's called.
I'm sure you know what it is, Lucas.
Yeah.
Uh, this is the speed wobbles meme.
Yeah, the speed wobbles, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, I, I really, like, I'm an old man with bikes now.
Like, I ride, like, so fucking slow.
I keep away from all the cars.
Uh, after the brain hemorrhage incident, I was like, I just don't think you get too many of those in life.
Uh, I'm not going to test this one again.
If I was smarter, I would have just stopped riding motorcycles altogether, but they're just really fun.
Like, it is...
Yeah, there's something that's just like untouchable about like riding a bike around on like a nice fall day, like blasting a bunch of like music used to listen to when you were 14.
Yeah, sounds comfy. I mean, the, that hypothetical I told about, like, you know, being, like, kind of conservative on your bike and then, like, killing yourself the instant you meet the wrong person. That was, in fact, a story of a friend of mine. Like, he was exactly that guy. He was, like, very conservative on the thing. And he just, like, met the wrong person. They were like, yeah, dude, we, like, trick all the time. It's, like, super safe. And, like, the first time he went out with them, he died.
like literally just like smeared himself on the paint like in a tree or something like that um and like that dude like almost convinced me to get a bike like i was like very close and then he fucking dies on the thing like like uh the colloquialism murder bike exists for a reason like they're extraordinarily dangerous
Yeah, especially in the states too because there's so many uninsured drivers because
illegals do not get insurance because they're not legal.
And so if they hit someone, they're not going to like call like an ambulance and like
they're just going to drive away.
So if you're in a state that has like a bunch of illegals, riding a motorcycle is like
order of magnitude more dangerous here alongside the motorcycles all being like giga overpowered.
But Sue, do you, are you familiar with the term squid?
for no no there's this term there's this term in the motorcycling community uh squid that like
it basically refers to like retard motorcyclists and it exists because like when these people
splatter their guts all over the pavement by like riding like a retard they look like a squid
like that's uh that's like just common parlance in like motorcycle uh community crazy
Anyways, I'm buying this is actually kind of similar to uh this is kind of similar to crypto because like I I have friends left ago who are like Bitcoin Maxis and then they meet the wrong person and then the next time you meet them they're buying a file coin and they're buying like they're like D5 Ponzi's.
Yeah and depending upon what the market's doing or just how lucky they are they might actually be up some and they're like super happy about it and like they're just like begging you to join them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or they could have already crashed and died.
Yeah.
Yeah. Either way, it's like they're just like mega like flipping the coin at that point.
No, the same thing happens with motorcycles too. Like everyone when they first get a motorcycle,
they're like extremely scared for the first like one to three months of riding it.
They like really respect the vehicle. And then at some point they start thinking that they're like way better at riding the motorcycle than they actually are.
And they get like really overconfident. And then they blow up by crashing. Right. And it's exactly the same thing in crypto. Like,
Like you're in a bull run.
You just joined.
You buy some random dog shit.
And now you're up like 4x and you think you're like a genius investor.
And then you buy something else with like all you're like,
I'm going to rotate out into this next killer deal.
And then boom.
It's all gone.
the funny thing about crypto is that you actually survive these crashes so copes form after them right
like uh like the the squid thing the squid thing forms because uh people have to have to form like a
morbid sense of humor in order to cope with it you know so like the coat the cope is simply that
they kind of like have like a devil make care attitude about like literally like getting smeared and
like turning into like horrific like inside out abominations like in the course of dying um with crypto like no one like
well, directly dies as a result of getting completely liquidated.
So a lot of, like, funny cultural copes can form.
It's like the, like, oh, rugged again.
Yeah, really.
If they rugged me, bro, it's asymmetric.
What could I have done?
It was my, it wasn't my fault.
Yeah.
The market's getting a lot better at actually saying, like, it was my fault now, though, than it was before, I think.
Well, that's like, well, you know, like the five stages of grief, right?
Like, like, like, anger and like anger and sadness and bargaining acceptance and shit like that, right?
Like, there's sort of like, there's sort of like a halfway point between like genuine acceptance.
and like cope acceptance.
It's like, you kind of just go like, yeah, dude, I fucked up.
Like, what could I have done?
But like, you don't actually really mean it.
You're not like you're saying it, but you don't really mean it.
You know, like you have to get like, you have to get like raped a few more times before you.
You actually mean, yeah, I fucked up.
That was my bad.
Sorry.
I should not have done. I should not have made that move. It's just like it's it's like you you learn how to have a sense of humor before you actually learn like. Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. Yeah. That's a good that's a good way to put it. And it's like if I just laugh about it, then it doesn't matter. Right. Well, so much of what happens in crypto to is like a community thing. Like it's very rare that you're going to like find a way to lose money on your own.
It's almost always that like there's somebody that like when you lose the money, you'll like want to blame them.
You know, you're going to say like, why did you tell me to buy this or why didn't you tell me not to buy this?
Or why didn't you tell me to buy this when it was going, right?
Like there's always like this instinctive feeling that people have to like blame someone else for whatever they've done to either lose or not make money.
Yes, like when I crashed out at you when the market crashed a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah.
Because you should have told me and I lost everything.
I lost absolutely everything
And I'm homeless now
I'm naked in a shipping container
On the side of the freeway right now
Dude
I actually went around
To basically every group chat I had
And I said like I'm scared shitless right now
I am net short
And I have like sold
But you didn't directly tell me to sell
Everyone just called me gay
Like literally every
It was like three straight days
Of just everyone calling me a gay bitch
And I was like
Fuck you
Okay fine
Yeah
You tell them to buy more.
You tell them it's like, but it's actually a local, like a local minimum in the market.
Yeah.
Like I've learned about, it's about to send to buy more.
I've learned so many things this cycle just about like what happens when you have,
if you have like any sort of an audience and like what you're allowed to say or not to say.
And like I learned early on like you're not allowed to like shill basically any ticker or else people get mad at you at some point.
And then you're not actually even allowed to shill like.
majors at some point, or people get mad at you.
You're not allowed to post like your positions because even if you post exact entries and exits, people will still find a way to like fuck up the exact thing that you said and then get mad at you.
And then this time I learned you're not even allowed to like tell people when you think they should sell because they also get mad at you then.
And.
Even if you can go back and say, ha ha, like I told you, I was right later.
That just also makes them mad at you.
You know, this does kind of prefigure an interesting mayhap's platform feature on ox.
Fun, like literally just like the Lucas copy trade like strategies vault or something like that.
Well, I mean, this is what people do on chain.
They just like watch wallets and follow them and stuff.
You don't want to be copy.
But turn it into it like a like a capital F feature.
The only, I think that'd be the funniest thing ever.
I've often said that like a really good feature would be like inverse copy trading.
Mostly because like up until this last year, I just never profited off of any trades ever.
I was just like gradually like losing money.
This last cycle was the only time where I like consistently did anything good.
But I'm not even like a good trader.
It's like I'm just at the point where I've like hit the inflection curve of like I make money more than I lose it now.
Yeah.
It took like millions of dollars in several years to get to the point of just like not
losing money.
Yeah.
Sue, what do you think the average amount of money that people like loses before they
become profitable traders?
A lot.
I think a lot.
I think most of the ones who do, they usually have like a couple of big scares
early on.
Probably like 90%, 80%, at least drawdowns, and then they kind of get it together and like, okay, do things reasonably.
It's the motorcycle thing.
Yeah.
But I know one guy, he's gone like from near zero to like nine figs three times.
And you would think that the second time you would have known, but actually it takes three apparently.
So, but now he's good.
I think it takes a different amount for like different people, but like there are like certain weird freak outliers who can like learn from other people's experiences.
And like when they're in the position, they can just like integrate everything that like the wise elders around them are saying.
But it's really, really rare.
I am not one of those people at all.
Like I have to make literally every mistake myself multiple times before I realize that it's bad.
And I think most other people are in like a similar boat, but I might just be coping.
Yeah, I mean, like most of the time when you're doing really well, and then like the people from last cycle didn't do it as well.
And then you're looking at them and you're like, wow, these guys are idiots.
Like they missed everything.
Like they're like they're sideline.
Right.
And they're like, no, like we've seen this movie before.
It's like when the NSC guys are telling the meme coin guys, like, you know, these low liquidity pools, like we've seen how this ends on ordnals.
We've seen how this ends on like other products.
But, you know, meme coins.
you know, if it's your first cycle, you haven't felt that before in an FFT, so you don't know.
Even if people tell you that, you're like, well, this is different.
There's a different asset class.
Each time it looks totally different, right?
Like, if it's exactly NFT mince again, then you can say, okay, you were right.
You can teach me about that.
But as long as there's like minor differences, right, that like obfuscate that it is not exactly the same thing.
You can sit there and like do copes about it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
You have to learn to feel it, you know?
Yes.
It's got to be like a vibe thing where you're like,
everyone's making money and we haven't done a lot of work.
Maybe it's over for a while, you know?
Yeah.
Free money lasts forever, actually.
That's how the market works.
I saw a good thread the other day was where I was saying like, you know, a million dollars actually, even if you're making 150K pre-tax in a city, you might save up 20 years a million dollars making that salary.
Yeah.
So if you made a million dollars on a meme coin, you might want to sell half for something.
That's kind of the argument.
But, um.
Well, you just get so detached from like the value of money.
Yeah.
Because there's always people, there's always people earning more than you as well.
Like there's always people that are earning more.
Like, let's see you made 3 mil on a meme coin.
You may know guys that made like 12 mil on that same coin.
So you're like, yeah, okay, it's normal.
You know, and then you go to the next one.
So I think it somehow is very normalized if you start making money.
It's like, oh, I could be making more because there's people that are like this and just as dumb as I am that are making more.
So it becomes like I deserve to make three million on me in coins.
And then I actually deserve seven.
I, like I fumbled the bag.
The next time I'm going to.
Well, and you'll be like, you, you, you stop instead of like comparing yourself to like, any sort of like reasonable entry or exit markers.
You start like being like, fuck.
Like I'm in the coin with this guy and like I got in at like this price, but he got in like.
60% lower. So now he has way more holdings than me. Like like like you're
competing directly with the other big holders of the coin. It's not just there are
people who are making money. It's yeah you're in a group chat with the people who are
making more money and you're like you want to you want to you want to fucking you want to
like two percent of network. Yeah. So I want to get five percent of the network. And then
you're like wait, why do I want five percent of this coin that's down nine
and five. Yeah like where did this number come from? Why do I care?
And it's actually just that you want to beat the other guy in the group chat.
Yeah, it all just resolves to FOMO until you lose everything.
Yeah.
At some point, I think that's like the big thing that like the first big, uh, lesson that like helps people not just lose money all the time is like, you just cannot have FOMO over like literally anything.
Uh, you can never be looking at something and being like, fuck, I should have done that or whatever.
Uh, and like.
There are many other things you need to learn.
This is the main thing that I know, though.
And it's like it also prevents me from making a lot of money.
So I just have like, I'll just be sitting there with like 10% fluctuations in like my net worth as everyone else is like wildly swinging their portfolios around.
And I'm just like managing assets like an old man.
And then they get mad at you when you tell them.
Well, I mean, it's either like they're up and I'm a retard or they're down and they're like, why didn't we sell?
Like, why would, you know, so it's...
Like at a certain point, you're just like outside the bounds of what normal cryptocurrency
investors do.
Like the amount of money that I'm willing to invest in any one given thing is so fucking
small compared to like, you know, you'll have some guy being like, dude, like Trump
is launching.
I just shipped 80% of my on chain net worth into this coin.
It's a Trump coin.
It's going big.
And like that's literally impossible for me.
Like I could never do that in a million years.
I could. I could definitely see myself doing that.
I'm just, I'm way too much of a pussy.
I literally cannot even buy coins until they've been around for like a month or something.
I'll put in like one salana or something if it's like a one day launch.
Like one way or another, you just have to like learn what getting raped feels like, depending upon the person.
They'll have to learn it a few times.
And then from there, the next lesson is what I'll learn to feel, what like learned the pre-raped feeling.
Like, oh, I'm about to get raped.
Like, what's this little pingle in my ass?
I think I should sell.
Oh, I think I should sell.
Oh, I think I should sell.
And then after that, it's like you either, like, you either get lucky or like the first like few times you do that, you feel like a like a retard because you actually didn't need to sell.
And then from there, like, what's your reaction to that?
You know?
Yeah.
So I bought this shit and I thought it was like granola and I'm eating it and I'm realizing it's just oatmeal.
It's just uncooked oatmeal.
So I was like, wow, this is really exciting.
I'm excited to have some like breakfast granola and I'm just eating uncooked oatmeal.
And it's just like really powdery and disappointing.
Yeah.
Is it in a bar?
No, no, no.
This is, it's in a bag.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm still like the craziest,
one of the craziest things I've ever seen is still like you,
like buying the collard greens at the King Supers.
And just walking around down,
like you eat raw colored greens.
Like I don't like I don't put,
I don't put eating like a powderized oatmeal,
but out of like my,
like your normal purview.
Yeah,
fuck you,
fuck you,
Ray Pete.
Vegetables are good.
Well, it's the collared greens, especially.
Like, I don't think you can't take, I don't think you can't, I don't think you can't take a single person on planet Earth who like eats collard greens and go and like to just do it in front of them.
Like, like, walk into the kitchen with like, like, Aunt Jemima and she's about to like make a collar greens or whatever and just grab like a handful off of the cutting board before she puts it in the pot and just start munching on them and have her not like like stab you in the heart.
The thing with colored greens is that kale has been like inflationarily priced out of like the reasonable like if I'm going to go and just eat like four pounds of vegetables, which like that's kind of the way that I wind up doing it.
It's like I'm going to pay like fucking $50 for like four pounds of kale.
Like that's retarded, bro.
I don't want to do that.
I'm going to get collared greens.
It's going to be like $10.
So you get.
Yeah, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to gentrify the fuck out of collard greens.
It's like, you know, like the people eating them may not be named here, I guess.
But I mean, my bet.
I have a friend.
Bryce them out.
I have a collard green eater friend.
Do you drop out or did I drop out?
Uh, Sue?
I think you just muted himself.
I don't know.
Oh, no, he muted and he's been gone.
I just, I couldn't hear you for a sec.
Frozen or fresh collard greens, bro, go for the fresh.
Frozen collared greens would be like, like...
I'm not above it.
Like,
There's no bar of poverty that I actually.
That could be a nice crunch, actually.
Like, if you, if you like the raw collard greens, like, maybe like, if they're,
like, perfectly frozen, it could be, like, a nice extra bit of crunch.
Like, at that point, why not?
Okay.
Collard greens are much thicker than many other, like, uh, leafy vegetables, though.
So, like, I think it might be a thing where, like, they're genuinely unpleasant to eat
because you're not like, it's not like you're chewing on, like, a 0.1 millimeter thick, like, frozen
frozen kale leaf.
It's like a 1.5 millimeter thick, like sort of foamy.
Well, I have never eaten raw, raw colored greens before, so I wouldn't know.
Yeah, you should just sit back.
Sit back, white boy.
I highly recommend it.
Frozen is crunch.
It might in fact be the whitest way to eat collared greens.
Like no brother's going to tell you to do this.
If you look up every other collard green recipe, it is going to be something from an ethnic group.
Yeah, it's going to be Aunt Jemima's like stewed collard greens.
Like I said, like every single person on the planet who eats collard greens, they're stewing them.
every single person.
It's like if you do this in front of anyone,
they're just going to kill you, man.
Like you go to like a crawfish boil in like Louisiana
and like you just start munching on like the raw collard greens.
They're going to like draw and quarter you.
Yeah.
It's going to be totally over.
So, okay.
It's going to be like Mandarin like Imperial Palace like execution hours for you.
This guy is asking about our thoughts on celery and, uh,
So celery is a weird one because, you know, like, all those.
Well, if you know the celery tech, it's actually like adds like like like like out of like 10 points, right?
Like normal like raw celery is like four out of 10.
If you know the celery tech, it's like six out of 10.
I don't know if a celery tech is, but I just know that like they use celery juice as a replacement for like nitrates and nitrites when they're preserving things.
So I assume that it also just contains because it's like, oh, like no added nitrites or something, but then it has like celery juice, which presumably has nitrites, right?
You're just you're finding a way to add nitrites without having nitrites on your ingredients list.
uh so after i learned that i was like well if i eat enough celery am i not just literally eating
like preservative juice like this like uh that's the only thing that's ever made me like have
any thought on uh it's so hard to be a real man now like the juice are in the celery as well yeah my
uh my dad's had periods where he was doing like weight loss stuff and he was like well if you
eat celery like it's actually negative calories because there's so little sugar in it that uh
When you're digesting it, it actually takes more energy to digest than it does to eat.
So, like, if I just eat 100 million pounds of celery, all of my fat will, like, melt off instantaneously because of the power of thermodynamics or something like that.
I think that's, like, obviously, dubious because it's like, it's like Sue is saying earlier.
Like, you don't actually have to do anything, right?
Like, you can...
Your body can just not digest it.
Yeah, it definitely sounds like a weight loss cope.
It's like the same with like the Ozzypic thing.
It's like, oh, like why would you not use Ozmpic?
It's like one way or another, like you're doing the same.
Like if you're losing weight, you're doing the same thing, which is to say not doing something.
Yeah.
Yeah, like you can always just eat less.
Yeah.
Yeah, this makes sense.
If someone, I mean, I wouldn't make fun of you for appreciating celery, but if you were like a giga celery maxi, I would sort of question why, because I think there are many better green vegetables that have like a similar level of fibrous, you know, like fibrous material in them, but also have like more.
you know, you can get more nutrition out of them.
Like celery is notoriously devoid of nutrition.
And it doesn't even taste that great.
So it's like you're already at the bar of like you're clearly eating this thing for utility.
And if I'm going to eat something for utility, I think there's just better options.
Well, imagine like let's prototype like these people.
right like we have like the celery eater let's put the seller like that like the archetypal like celery eater
like modal celery eater like you take all the celery eaters in the entire world you put them in it you put him in a big machine it crushes them into one what does this guy look like how does he behave i think he's like gay
I think he just made a gay guy.
I think he lives in West Hollywood.
He, like, may or may not have AIDS.
Like, it's up in the air, you know?
Well, this is like...
It's not outside their own possibility.
But, like, there's much funnier variations, right?
Like, we have literally one person in the entire world who eats colored greens is you.
So that, like, that one's very, they're very strongly typed.
Like you have like like like like imagine like carrot eaters like if you take every guy in the entire world who eats like raw carrots
Like imagining a guy like walking around like and he's just like chewing on rock carrots like that's the most annoying one probably
Because it's it's like it's like it's like eating an apple like you know how annoying like apple eaters are because they just like you like you just know that they're enjoying like flexing on you like just with how big the bites they can take are you know like that big like chunk sound
No I deal with the carrot except like it's more needs so you know the guy's more pretentious
I did a stream with OG.
We were walking around like a college campus and there was this guy dressed in a carrot suit with a basket handing out carrots.
That's the funniest thing ever.
I just got like five carrots.
Can you intro me?
I want to meet this guy.
He was actually one of the most interesting guys we talked to.
I asked him what his, uh, I asked him what his thoughts on the URL ox dot fun was.
And he was another one of the people that told me like, it sounds like it would sell.
porn toys or like sex toys or something i mean it's another market for you guys
At some price.
That would be a great addition.
Like, let's not, let's not look, let's not reject opportunity here.
But I took, I took some carrots from his big basket.
And literally, it's exactly what you were saying.
The only reason that I took the carrots was because we were walking around with mics.
And like, while we weren't talking, I wanted to be chewing the carrot right into the
mic so everybody would have to listen to my carrot crunching.
But they're also sweet.
Like, I'm pretty sure of, like, any raw vegetable, carrots probably taste the best.
But you can also rack up, like, you know, like, if you just get 20 pounds of collard greens or something and you eat them, you're not going to wind up saying, like, oh, I actually had, like, real calories.
If you get, like, 20 pounds of carrots and you just dig a binge, you're actually going to have, like, 4,000 calories of just carrots.
Okay, so the modal carrot eater is really fat.
So he's obese.
Okay.
Like, you couldn't see what this guy looked like under the carrot suit, could you?
No, it's an ox.
The modal carrot eater is an ox.
Aren't carrots supposed to be good for your eyesight or something?
Yeah, they got beta-carotene.
Beta-carotene, yeah, the vitamin A meme.
But it's like, it's one of those things where it's not necessarily that it's, like, good for your eyesight.
Like, if you just keep linearly consuming more carrots, your eyesight will become linearly better.
It's like if you...
If you already are vitamin A deficient, then you can improve your eyesight to a baseline by having enough carrots such that you replenish your vitamin stores.
Like that's usually how it goes with most like micronutrient deficiencies.
It's like you either have a problem or you don't.
And if you don't have the problem, you cannot like address it by just like mega dosing multivitamins.
Yeah.
Fixing the problem usually just amounts to like you stop rotting internally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like vitamin D deficiency, like one way or another, you're like rotting internally.
You like mega dose vitamin D.
You're not going to be Superman.
You're just going to stop rotting internally.
Yeah.
I will say vitamin B12 is like a big one that's like actually, uh,
sort of different on this one because people are so like so so deficient in vitamin B12
that it's like you can almost just help everyone by giving them like vitamin B12 shots.
Yeah, it's like magnesium and zinc as well or actually.
Yeah, yeah.
Magnesium zinc, potassium, uh, you know, we're just starting the supplement line.
Like we're doing it here in front of you, building in public.
We're shipping.
We're building real things.
I feel like Oxfund.
I think Oxfund should ship definitely like a rectile dysfunction.
Because it's like castrated bull, right?
You just see like Viagra like spinoffs.
Wait, wait, wait, do you mean like a pill that gives you erectile dysfunction or one that cures it?
Well, yes.
No, no, no, look, obviously to cure it.
I'm going to cure it.
Well, but no, no, like, if you want to be like a successful trader, like, okay, you know how like...
You need to modulate.
You need to modulate for the marketing condition.
It's estrogen.
Yeah.
There's a case study where they gave a bunch of traders estrogen and the traders performed better, right?
So it's clear that like for optimal performance in the markets, you should be nuking your boners, right?
Like if you give yourself more boners, you probably it's you're going to be gooning too much.
You're going to go like you're going to go send things to the e girls.
Maybe you're going to like, oh, like I'm rich now.
I'm going to send this bitch five salana.
Fuck you.
Like that's.
That's not her salana.
That's your salana.
And if you had like the boner killing pills, you never would have done this in the first place.
We're going to have both products.
It's like the poison and the ante daub.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we can sell shovels and then like holes.
Also you sell a portable hole.
I thought that would do well.
Holy shit, bro.
Ox dot pump goes hard.
Low to low risk.
Yeah.
Yeah, we can sell the bath pumps.
We can sell like a bath mate, like penis enlargement pump.
We could be the first.
We don't even really have to change the URL.
It already is like applicable to like supplement sales as is.
Like we don't need to ball out here.
Like so supplement sales.
You can do the whole gambit.
Honestly, why did we give up on the rebrand?
That would be max pain.
That would be max pain for like serious.
Ox stock pain.
Ox dot pain.
It would be serious max pain for these.
Like imagine if you bought ox hoping for the rebrand into like a hyperliquid front end that's like very serious.
And then you just start with like supplements, like, uh, boner reduction supplements.
It's more successful than the, than the main leg exchange.
No, no, the Macs.
I mean, it's like Michelin, it's like Michelin Guide, right?
It's like a fire.
They just decided to start reviewing restaurants.
They're like, why don't we just review restaurants instead, right?
No, like Max Payne is that we pivot to selling boner reduction bills, but they don't even work.
I think the most like ox, the most like on brand like ox, like Viagra equivalent is like just you just send people those spiders from the Brazilian rainforest that give you Priapism.
If you guys heard of those, there's like a spider if you get bitten by it and like the Amazon or whatever, it'll give you like a life-threatening boner.
Because if it lasts long enough, like more than four hours, like all the blood in your erection like literally coagulates because it can't oxygenate properly.
And then when you eventually lose the erection, it just like completely crashes through your circulatory system and like completely annihilates your lungs and your heart and you just die instantaneously.
I think that would be like the most on brand like ox,
oxyagra you sent someone with these spiders it's like a systemic boner contagion it's like uh it's like
usde for boners the boner stable coin that could work i can see that
So aren't you supposed to have like,
aren't you supposed to have like hours long
bonus when you're asleep or is that different?
It doesn't count when you're asleep.
No, that's different.
It's kind of like the,
the tide, my friend,
there's an ebb and a flow to it.
This is like a four,
like a solid like four hour long,
like diamond harder, you know?
Like that's legitimately like for me.
Not like a semi while you're asleep.
No, no, those are safe.
No, it is, it is like you can definitely tell like,
You're really into a girl.
She's very beautiful.
And it's like you're just, you're gooning for a while.
And then at some point you're like, this is actually painful.
Like, uh, that's actually one of the funniest things you could probably say to a girl.
Like this is like, like this is life threatening what you're doing to me.
I know.
It's like, it's like, I understand this might be like funny or like comedic.
But like I'm not joking.
Like we have to like go for a walk or something.
We have to stop.
Please have to leave the goon cave.
I'm scared.
And then you like, you start showing her like Google search results for like priapism, preepism.
Yeah, pre-apism.
You're like this, like, I could have like a lung embolism because of how attracted to you I am.
Like we have to get out.
Massive cardiac arrest.
Maybe this is, so maybe.
So maybe this is like the preemptive strike.
Like you can just show her, hey, I took this pill.
Like there's like a chastity pill.
I can't possibly get hard now.
Nothing you can do.
Oh, sure.
It's like nothing you can do will make it hard.
You can lock in.
You give her, yeah.
Nothing you can do will make me hard.
Opens ox dot fun.
She just ignores her for like five hours.
It's like the meme of the guy like playing Halo while the girl's like, babe, please just
fuck me.
And he's like, I'm busy, right?
But it's charts.
It's charts instead of Halo.
Yeah, let's ship it.
We can shipple.
We could...
This might be one of the few supplements that we couldn't actually white label.
Like, we might actually have to make this one ourselves.
Like, I don't think anyone has, like, a...
Imagine taking this in the front of investors.
Like you're like, you're trying to like start up this product.
You're like a pharma startup or whatever.
And you're like, it's Seales, it's Viagra.
But the other way, but opposite it.
And like this is like a room of investors, right?
They're like kind of like older men.
They're like probably like the Viagra market.
They just don't get it at all.
No, it's like you get the 23-year-old intern and you notice he's been like looking inappropriately at like your really hot secretary and you just walk over to his desk one day and you put down the pill bottle of like boner killer bills.
You say nothing.
You just walk away.
Like if you want to stay at this firm, you must chemically castrate yourself.
I wish I knew the chemicals I use for that now because I would mention one.
Is there a way you could do like a nanotechnology, like remote control, where you like either release the Viagra or you release this anti-viagra based on like an iPhone app so you could like just like toggle it.
Like, imagine you could toggle it in, in 20 minutes.
It just gets, like, longer and harder.
Then you, like, toggle it back and then toggle it in.
You probably press for your body.
Or you can toggle it based on certain metrics.
You could give women such a funny feedback, like, incentive loop.
If you could manually toggle, like, the erection quality based on, like, what they're saying or doing.
Like, just give them, like, a...
You're inside of her and, like, she does something you don't like and you just turn it off.
You ruined it.
You ruined it.
Imagine like you hook your you hook your dick up to like some kind of like fear greed index of the market
The market's afraid the market's bearish today. I can't get hard honey. Sorry no, no, no, but like at max fear also like
Because like because adrenaline is like a phasodilator like you're more likely to get an erection at like max fear than you are at like your baseline state. I
So can we create like a fear-based Viagra and sell an Oxfline?
Like we just scare you. Like it's just like funds you can't withdraw them.
And then it's just an epipen. It's just pure adrenaline.
With the Ox logo on it.
And they're like now that help your election. You know, we do a poll.
If I'm doing a survey. Oxfund branded EpiPens would be amazing. Oxfund branded
yeah i'd probably not ox1 branded condoms that would be annoying no i feel like i'm so sorry
did that i'm so sorry did that as well like don't get liquidated uh-huh you know it's like
oh yeah condoms are cucked anyways they're nobody uses them anymore at all like it's just
totally over everyone used them because of aids like that was like the reason why huh i read
recently that a aids with straight people is only happening through african dry sex
That's like the conservative lore that I see on the timeline now.
That's, that's, like, very real.
It's crazy.
There's so many, like, crazy, like, third world, like, sexual practices that just, like,
turn sex into, like, this horrific, like, petri dish, like, spawning abomination thing.
And they do it more than anyone else.
They actually did this at UT Austin campus a few years ago.
Where they...
Did what? No, no, not African dry sex, but they wound up doing some like BDSM thing to such an extent that like there was an unusual level of like bloodborne contamination and they like made like a hybrid of like chlamydia and like gonorrhea or something.
Like they made like a new like a new form of common STD.
So like there's always a way.
If they kept going, it would have turned sapient.
Yeah, it's like this is the real AI.
It's waiting.
It's pre-training.
The San Francisco Polykle is pre-training.
You're like, honey, what are you doing?
Like, I'm pre-training.
I'm making AGI.
I think we've got a meeting in about five minutes to...
for what is we're probably going to have to we haven't we haven't quite this long why don't we
why don't we push this in the meeting and see it and see what feedback is we'll we'll uh we'll circle back
as we can we can you can you can pitch it i don't know if i want to be the one to pitch this is like
it's like it's something i would there's only so many times you can suggest like dick related
product ideas i feel like and i've already used my quota this year
Have you?
I'm which.
Can't remember it?
I don't know.
All the supplements and all this other stuff.
It's like it was a joke, but like how much of a joke is the joke?
I don't know myself.
No, for four hours there.
I was thinking you just shut Oxfunt and make it a supplement or shut the exchange and make it a supplement.
For at least four hours.
And I called to people and I was told them.
I know it could withdraw their money during it.
I think it should be like you have to, you know,
Yeah.
Something like that.
The entire like public exchange website just redirects to the supplement line.
I can't see my, I can't see my account.
I can't see any of my funds.
What's happening?
It doesn't let you view your, it doesn't let you view your positions or assets or holdings until you purchase like at least $50 worth and you get three people on your ref link.
You're like messaging your grandma.
You're like, please buy the dick pills.
I need to save my money.
Please.
Please.
Grandma, I know we don't talk a lot anymore.
April Fool's.
April Fool's is coming.
It is bullish.
Sue, you've never been around me for April Fool's.
But it's like, I'm not going to say it's my favorite holiday.
But like, it's definitely top two.
Are you different though in April Fool's?
No, but I just am so annoying.
Like,
I like actually, like last year I actually did like one week of preparation for April
Fools and everyone in my life was just like I have to get away from this fucking
reach out.
I feel like you live every day like this April Fool's Day though.
I was thinking the same thing man.
Like knowing this guy, it's like on April Fools, I bet the only difference is they just
says, oh, April Fool's a lot.
It's like same behavior.
But like that makes it so much more annoying.
Same behavior.
Just like April Fools.
Imagine how much more annoying is if I end every single thing with April Fools.
April fools.
I'm not doubting you.
It was nice beating you, Sue.
You guys have a great name.
Take care, guys.
Godspeed, it's been beautiful.
