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Supervaults Launch
Recorded: Aug. 21, 2025 Duration: 0:57:39Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Can people hear me?
Give me some emoji.
Hello, hello, I got you.
Excellent.
Today, this morning, is very special.
Because you're listening to the Smooth Tones.
Pantera.
Here on FM radio.
We're going to have a bit of a happy hour for all the ladies out there that are into crypto, all three of them.
And we're going to be talking about super vaults.
That's right, these vaults are normal, they're super.
Do you think you can mimic the voice in the Super Vault
launch video?
Funny
fact, that's my voice
in the Super Vault launch video. That is you.
Yeah. I found an
old-timey
like one of those voice recorders that you crank by hand manually and just spoke into it.
Who else do we need up here? Because we do actually want to get into the nuts and bolts of Super Vaults, which I think is a very interesting technology, honestly.
A very novel approach to automated market making
and i can sit here and talk about the lore and wax poetic as long as we need
but uh maybe you have some guys that actually came up with the idea because all i can do is
fanboy can't really talk about the yeah the inside baseball i just sent them dm so hopefully they'll be joining shortly cool cool um do want
to say for anybody that's here that doesn't know what we're talking about if you go over to the uh
the neutron twitter the pinned message is uh it's got a video of the, it's basically an old school like explainer video cartoon that originally was from, I think I want to say 1952, maybe even earlier.
And we repurposed it.
It was a 13 minute long explainer about how the stock market works.
And so we completely repurposed it and like reorganize the scenes and did a voiceover
and all that fun stuff to talk about Supervolts.
And the reason I actually bring up the tweet
is not to pump our tires on the video,
but if you look at the tweet itself and you click on it
and you go into the second tweet,
there's an article that we wrote back in May, which explains kind of the
lore behind Supervault. And, you know, it's from this perspective of like the long history of
market making in general, where, you know, it paints the scene of 1991, where it's the
Sydney's futures exchanges. And, you know, back then it's a bunch of hairy, sweaty men
screaming at each other in a pit, in a trading pit, similar to like what you've seen in movies.
And that was market making. I mean, that was it. You know, you literally call out like,
I've got, you know, this much stock at this price and I'm looking to buy this much stock at this
price. And you contrast that with today or at least, or at least five years ago, five, six years
ago, the invention of the XYK automated market maker, in which it's just a pool of assets and
anybody can come in and there's not really a counterparty. And it's a super fascinating sort
of innovation in the crypto space. And in my opinion, it's probably one of the biggest reasons why they kicked off DeFi Summer was, you know, the ability for anybody
to come in and permissionlessly, you know, bundle two assets together, throw them in a pool and,
you know, passively earn incentives, swap fees and whatnot whatnot and that really kicked off defy summer
you know five years ago and uh was was a was a really incredible innovation the problem with
that though is you start to look for better execution and you know traders um traders want
to set like limit orders right and with your traditional x y k pool you can't
set a limit order right you just go in and basically uh the price is determined by the
level of assets on either side of the pool and so you know if I want to buy something for
whatever whatever price my limit price I can't do that so they invented something called
concentrated liquidity um and i someone correct
me if i'm wrong but i believe that was uniswap v3 was was the the one that came out with that
which is cool great you know now we've got limit orders but now there's another problem which is
you've got this passive liquidity and prices are moving around so quickly that if you're not sitting
there and babysitting your position uh you know arbitrageurs from from uh basically
looking at prices from a centralized exchange will take that and uh and either buy or sell and and
you end up losing money so the the whole lore around super vaults is it is this next iteration
so you know 1991 it's people shouting at each other in the pit. 2019, it's the invention of the AMM.
And then since then, there have been sort of these slight upgrades to give people a little bit more flexibility when they place orders, like limit orders and whatever.
And now, this is really the next step as far as automated market makers go.
And that's why it's kind of like we've called it
the end game for on-chain market makers
because, you know, integrated with Neutrons,
you know, integrated, let's be redundant in the sentence,
with Neutrons integrated architecture, infrastructure,
there are some really cool things that happen.
And I don't, you know, I'm probably not the right person to explain it.
I'll happily butcher it.
But there's some really cool things that happen with the integrated Oracle feed and the Cron module that basically allows you to deposit into these vaults.
And you get your liquidity placed in like the most ideal spot on the chart. And it's also very cool because
just built on top of duality, which is like this insane, like symphony of different sort of models
of ways to place liquidity, and they all go into the same order book. So from a user perspective,
whenever you look at the duality order book, you see basically just an
order book. That's just it. Even though it's AMMs, even though typically, traditionally,
that wasn't possible before to look at an AMM and deposit into a pool and see an actual,
your order eat up the bids or eat up the asks. Now that's actually possible because of duality
and the tech. So I'll stop rambling because we finally got Julian on and maybe we can dive a bit into Super Vaults and the launch and maybe just like duality and
all this fun stuff that I've been rambling about. How's that sound?
Sounds great, Jermaine. Welcome to the stage. Jay, come back, Niff.
Do you want to introduce yourself, maybe a bit about your history and
your experience with Duality, and then of course the Supervolts launch? Yeah, absolutely.
I guess, yeah, little background, I joined Duality before it was even part of Neutron,
before it was even part of Neutron, gosh, almost three years ago as one of the early
founding engineers and built most of the Duality order book.
Since the Neutron acquisition, I have transitioned to sort of managing everything for the duality order book as the head of
exchange. So both the sort of technical and product as well as some of the like business
development side of things. And been heavily involved in getting super volts to market over the last like six months.
This was kind of like a wild idea that Elijah had maybe a year ago.
And I'm on the wrong side of history here.
I was kind of like, this is stupid.
I don't think this will work.
But we, over time, over a lot of conversations, I was slowly convinced.
And we kind of went out and built Supervolts.
We've been running them internally for four or five months and they've been performing incredibly well.
And it's been a long time coming to open up public deposits.
So it's really exciting to open them up to everybody.
So it's really exciting to open them up to everybody.
Obviously, there's some like more technical reasons that SuperVaults are like a key component of the duality order book and sort of the Neutron ecosystem.
But there's also sort of this philosophical component of taking this idea of market making and sort of doing what like the winter mutes and the jumps have done and
democratizing that and not having it be this sort of shady backroom dealing, but like give
that sort of level of market making profit and sort of control directly to the hands
of the users.
I think it's just like a really fun step forward.
It is just like super aligned with my vision.
I think a lot of visions, people's vision
of what we want out of crypto,
that is this more flat democratized system
where there's not sort of these shady backroom partners
that are reaping all the profits
while like the small everyday users are losing money.
So super exciting to have Super vault be a public um product
that's cool can you um yeah that's awesome i'm also like personally extremely excited about this
launch and want to be testing all the different vaults um can you explain to me like why previously
what you described was gate kept by people or funds like winter mute and now
like what what has been unlocked that now everybody can participate in it
yeah um it's i'll be honest like kind of my own journey through launching an order book and like
dealing with some of these market makers
like at one point i thought these were sort of positive contributors to the marketplace like oh
there's a market maker and they kind of help everyone they facilitate trades um and like
the more of those conversations i had i might get myself in trouble here um
conversations I had. I might get myself in trouble here. Anyways, it is they are not quite as they're a critical component of a functioning order book to have lots of liquidity and like facilitate trades. But they are somewhat extractive. And what they are able to do, though, which is absolutely critical is they're, you know, able to post usually Like they, like a PCL pool or like a XYK
pool is really only going to like slowly react as the price moves. So they're not the most like
effective nimble alternatives to true like market makers.
What gets unlocked by Super Vaults, which is really a testament to like Neutron's architecture is two things.
One is the Cron module having like real time prices from centralized exchanges
on chain.
Sorry, did I say Cron?
Oracle, the Oracle and then also Cron allows us to to have a contract do something at the top of every block.
So real-time prices plus top-of-block execution basically allows SuperVault to work as well as the best traditional off-chain market maker,
sort of off-chain market maker, which is like the first time that you're able to have that sort of
control, precision, and frequency for a trading process. So they can have really good prices,
basically protect the underlying LP liquidity and service traders. So people trading directly on
the order book or through skip are able to get the full benefit of incredibly tight spreads, much tighter than you'd get with like traditional sort of AMM
designs. I think like a, like an analogy is for anybody that's ever read the book,
uh, flash boys by Michael Lewis. I think Michael Lewis isael lewis's name um like the the whole book is about
basically the rise of these uh like front running in the stock market and like the first two chapters
are just talking about them digging a trench this like a literal trench from chicago to new york
in order to get faster communication to the stock exchange so that when someone places an order, Joe Schmo comes along, places an order,
they could see that order in the queue, buy that asset, and then sell it back to Joe Schmo
at a higher price. Basically, not actually holding onto assets for any long period of time.
And that was the rise of high-frequency trading and Citadel and all these great empires.
And Julian, the way that you described it as like being able to do that, but then democratize
it and open up the vault so that anybody can get into this position and use that leverage
that integrated infrastructure, like the Oracle, like being able to then place the orders at the top
of the block. Is that a fair analogy? It's almost like it's not this shadowy dark thing anymore.
It's now like, all right, it's super vaults. Like if you want to get in on this, you know,
deposit into the vault and now anybody can basically benefit from having the fastest
transmission to the exchange. Yep. Totally well said. And I think often like these market makers, I mean, to your point, like
sink huge amounts of money into building their infrastructure, building their trading strategies.
And they're highly incentivized to sort of gatekeep
everything they've built because they want all the returns.
And I think what we've done is we've kind of flipped that
script on its head and said, Yeah, we've we've built all this. And like, we want we want everyone
in we want everyone to be able to use our high speed data pipeline and benefit, which is a
philosophical point. And also, you know, the broader goal is to make duality one of the best DEXs, certainly in Cosmos, but
ideally in crypto.
And to do that, we need really deep liquidity.
So it is a benefit to everyone, and it is sort of a necessity to bootstrap as much capital
into the DEX so know we can all sort of
profit and and grow together so it's really just like yeah trying to try to get everyone on board and build something really cool as a as a collective team and if you could if you could
talk a little bit more about duality um because i think duality in itself is is a pretty novel thing that at least i haven't
seen anywhere else and super vaults to be honest whenever i first joined the neutron team i thought
super vaults and duality were like the same thing i was very confused um but can you talk about like
duality and the the the neutron native decks and how that works and then how Super Vaults are a piece of that or at least like a contributing part of the orders that go into the order book?
Yeah, absolutely. core duality is an order book, which is a little bit different than, you know, something that is
first and foremost, more of an AMM design. So duality is just for each pair, basically a
long list of buy and sell orders. And then when someone interacts with it, they're just
walking through each of those buy and sell orders on top of that sort of order book design.
We have also included more traditional sort of AMM functionality.
Um, but all of that is built as limit orders with just some like fun bells and whistles.
Uh, so rather than having those limit orders be traded through and then be filled and go
back to the user, uh, the limit order basically just transfers its liquidity to the other side of the order book.
So if I have like an AMM position on a, let's call it Neutron USDC pair, there's Neutron sitting on one side, basically that looks like a limit order.
sitting on one side, basically that looks like a limit order.
Someone trades through that, they buy Neutron using USDC.
That USDC is now going to basically sit on the other side of the order book as a
limit order selling USDC.
In reality, the way that actually works is you've got money on both sides,
same as like an AMM pool.
So those are just like two standing limit orders that are just sort of passing
liquidity back and forth between each other.
That setup is basically the cornerstone or the cornerstone to how super vaults are built.
So they're using these AMM style positions to place liquidity on the order book.
um to place liquidity on the order book um i guess i got a little bit into the sort of technical
side of using the cron module and the oracle for prices um but at its core yeah supervolts are just
placing these sort of two-sided limit orders on the order book every block um
given using the market price and then very, very tight spreads so that they should have
their like two to six basis points higher than just the market price, which is nearly
as tight a spread as what you see on like Binance.
um yeah is that i don't know get i can get way deeper into duality but i don't know if
you want to get into the the weeds
no i think i think that's a good explanation of it and just from my perspective it's it's very
interesting that you can go into uh the the Duality order book, which is live.
You can go see it right now.
And it is like these, it is these bids and asks, right?
It is like going to a Binance or like a Coinbase and seeing like the orders come in from a
centralized exchange.
But the magic behind it is that is all aggregated volume from different, like whether they're PCL vaults or AMMs or even super vaults itself.
So whenever you execute a trade, you actually eat into some of the liquidity, but it could be from like multiple different parties.
from like multiple different parties, right?
Right. Correct me if I'm wrong, Julian.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Julian.
Yup. Yeah. That is, that is the other sort of grand vision
of duality is because of its design as this order book,
it's super flexible for other people to build applications
on top of it.
And we can kind of divide those applications into two sides.
One is sort of maker liquidity, people that are placing limit orders on the
order book. And the other is taker liquidity, people that want to trade against liquidity.
So the biggest example that's live right now is Astroport's PCL pools sit partially directly on
the order book. So there's all of the Astroport sort of fanciness and magic for their PCL pools.
And those are sitting, those are just using the order book.
So when you trade through duality, you're trading through liquidity from supervolts and from Astroport.
And all of that just sits in one place.
So instead of having to, historically what would happen is you'd, if you were being really smart, you'd route through a bunch of different venues. So if you wanted to make a trade, and you want to get the absolute best price, maybe you do route a little bit of your trade through Astroport, a little bit through Duality, a little bit through some third venue, let's say super vaults were their own sort of platform.
You could like split your trade three ways
and route through each of those.
Instead, what happens is all of that liquidity sits
on the same order book.
And so you trade and you get the benefit
of basically splitting that trade three ways.
The other side of the coin is people that like sort of take your liquidity, like people
that want to just like execute a trade.
Duality also like integrates really well with the sort of execution side.
So kind of similarly, like the Astroport front end now routes some of
its trades through duality, I believe. Mars now routes for like entering positions, liquidations,
unwinding HLS positions. Those get routed through duality.
So all of that is to say that like duality is one sort of just an order book
that the average user can interact with. They can place their limit orders. They can buy,
they can sell, but it is equally, if not more so, this sort of backbone for the neutron and in some
ways broader cosmos ecosystem as this like centralized marketplace for anyone that wants to sort of participate in DeFi trades.
It can all happen in one centralized place on one order book.
So it's you're getting kind of maximum efficiency by just putting all of the liquidity in one spot.
And as we continue to sort of scale, we'll have more products that we're building and external teams all sort of integrating on
top of that same order book rather than fragmenting it across a bunch of different applications
and like fragmenting liquidity uh it's all just one one singular hub
and if we could talk a little bit about the this means in a broader context for people who are trying to execute trades, especially through a product like SkipGo, which I think is a really cool product if you haven't used it.
It's essentially like pick an asset that you have, click an asset that you want, and then it easily kind of routes it.
you know, it easily kind of routes it, it aggregates all the the ways that it can execute.
It aggregates all the ways that it can execute.
What does what does Supervolts in the way that they or duality, I guess, more broadly,
what does that mean for like some of the volumes that we see on these aggregators?
Yeah, like one of our big benchmarks has been to be the most competitive best priced venue for skip and we have done
I don't have the data in front of me but last I looked like of all of the venues that skip was
using we're winning routes like 50 to 75 percent of the time don't quote me on that because i don't
have that data in front of me but um very scientific very highly scientific my my quants
have pulled those numbers um the yeah like i think that is a testament to this sort of
the yeah like i think that is a testament to this sort of integrated order book um that
between super vaults astroport uh native limit orders on the decks um it gives us this advantage
of like incredibly tight prices and like deeper liquidity at those really tight spreads. So it allows us to capture a ton of skip volume,
which is like great for the order book,
great for super vaults and like great for everyone
that's using skip that they are getting the benefit
of really the best possible prices you can.
It's also like from our end,
like skip has been a huge source of volume because it's
just this sort of constant order flow.
And as you said, it's a great tool.
I would love more people to be interacting directly on the decks, but really happy to
be able to service the volume that's coming through Skip.
Yeah, I think what it means for a trader,
if you're looking for the best execution
and it defaults to the best execution,
which it should,
then that's better for you
because you're going to get a better price.
And then for Neutron as a whole,
it's pushing more volume into Neutron.
And I guess to kind of wrap up
this little line of questioning,
we do have the Bitcoin Summer Vaults, which will be opening in September. And so if you've got
Bitcoin, which is apparently the asset that everybody wants that has the highest amount
of volume and is in the headlines every day and kind of drives the whole market,
and we integrate that into this order book that has the best execution and the aggregators
are sending orders through the venue with the best execution.
That in turn could mean that we would see a lot of volume, you know, start to go through
through duality in the Neutron order books.
So that wasn't really a question, Julian.
Maybe the question could be, what's on the roadmap here as far as, we've launched with,
I think it was like five or six pairs.
Could you talk about what's on the roadmap for additional pairs for the super vaults? And then could you also include sort of the rough roadmap for integrating with the Bitcoin summer vaults as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I guess as far as pairs, we currently have, I believe, I think it's 16 super volts we've been running internally.
We launched five of those, 16 for public deposits.
Over the next couple of weeks, the hope is to launch the rest of those.
Obviously, we don't want to launch them until we've like absolutely dialed the parameters and, you know, can ensure that yields will be really good for users. So there's
a little bit more tuning to do on our end. But more super vaults are coming soon. We will also
continue to add new super vaults for new assets as we add those to the order book.
So the goal is really to have for every,
every pair that we can have a super vault and open that for public deposits.
The other piece of that is obviously Bitcoin summer and super vaults are going
to be a huge component of that.
Again,
all of the sort of advantages of this really tight spread from super vaults are going to unlock a bunch of things like one of the big
cornerstones of Bitcoin summer is going to be this sort of these leverage looping positions.
And the hope is super vaults can have tight enough spreads that it's highly profitable to do
very, very looped, very loopy leverage loop positions. And then also for users that just
sort of want exposure to Bitcoin, they'll be able to deposit or Bitcoin or MaxBTC,
they'll be able to deposit directly into the super vaults
and get the yield from basically market making
with the super vaults.
The other piece of that that we are working on
is taking the LP tokens from Supervolts
and basically exporting those as their own asset.
So there's a whole bunch of really fun unlocks
that are gonna come from Supervolts.
The other piece I will add in kind of next on the roadmap
is going to be concentrated liquidity on the
order book.
So I know that's, that's been a favorite of people, sort of another flavor of LPing and
adding that to the order book sort of gives users one more choice as far as how they want
to engage with the order book and LP.
engage with the order book and LP.
It'll also play really nicely
sort of synergistically with super vaults
that the super vaults will be trading
through these CL positions.
And so it will give super vaults
and CL even more sort of trading volume.
And then for sort of end users
or like people looking to trade, those CL positions
will sort of fill the gap between the spread for SuperVault so that there's just tight liquidity
across the board and basically just a really dense order book so that for any size of trade,
you're getting sort of the best price possible.
That sounds great.
Thanks for outlining the roadmap and what's to come.
It sounds really awesome.
I just want to recap a few things that you mentioned just for anyone that might have come a bit late to the party
or if anyone is just discovering SuperVault for the first time. So if you go to app.neutron.org,
you'll see on the left side screen, there's a bunch of different options to select. You know,
SuperVault is there, the order book is there, bridging and staking. These are all things you
can do natively on the Neutron app. And so once you select the super vaults category itself, you'll see the five different vaults,
their total TVLs, their 30-day APY overhauled. So part of what we're talking about is these
are integrated market makers. And so we're trying, the vaults themselves are trying to beat out
the hold performance of holding the two underlying assets and eliminating impermanent loss.
And so you can see that clearly through the 30-day APY overhauled metric. And these numbers are
ranging from 22 to 557%. So the numbers look good so far. And the TVLs are also climbing up since
yesterday's deposit started. What's really cool about these is if you're an LP-er,
is you could join with $100 or you can join with much more
because it'll depend.
These are not inflationary incentives that are being given to the vaults.
Everything is from swap fees.
And so in theory, as we acquire more liquidity in these vaults,
they'll be able to service larger and larger trades
that are coming through different venues, whether that's directly people swapping on like the neutron app via the
swap page maybe those are swappers that are going through skip or maybe like um i'm running a delta
neutral vault on mars and i'm directly using these pairs that are listed so like using d atom and
usdc using the um d neutron usdc pairs directly and a lot of times
if you simulate the trade you can see in the transaction whether or not that trade is going
through duality or astroport or a different venue and so a lot of times you'll see that the swap
looks really good when it's going through duality and like you can just see directly that is the
benefit of these super vaults.
And so I'm excited to see as the TVO climbs in these vaults,
they'll be able to service larger and larger swaps,
which means more and more fees will be going to these vaults,
which in theory should mean that the fees given to the LPRs
will continue to climb.
So there's a benefit if you're an LPR,
and there's also a benefit if you're a swapper. And you might not even know that you're swapping through duality.
You could be using the skip interface as someone making trades.
You could be using the Mars interface as someone making trades and your trades are automatically getting routed through these vaults without knowing.
And then, of course, you can go directly to the order book and make swaps or the app.neutron. So I think there's really something for everyone who wants to participate
and really benefit from the excellent execution and native swap keys that are going to these LPs.
Yeah, one of the things I thought was really cool about the um what was it position versus hold
or pnl versus hold was like this uh this very clear sort of explanation of of like what your
position is doing versus had you just held the asset which i don't know who coined the term
impermanent loss but it's like the one of the worst terms in in history and it's just this insane like crypto vocabulary term that means
nothing and doesn't explain what it is and it's um it's really nice just to get that like clearly
defined you don't need to have any special insider lingo to understand what's going on whenever you
whenever you have your position so i would i would entice someone to, even if you just want to test it out, if you put in a
couple of dollars into one of the super vaults, go revisit the swap page.
And if you scroll down, you can see some of the charts and some of the performance, some
of the historical performance.
It's really well done.
So bravo to you, Julian, and to the entire team on the technical side.
It's slick.
Cool.
I mean, of course, we'll always open this up to questions towards the end, so if anyone
has any questions now and wants to ask any questions, of course feel free or you can
wait until towards later in the space and you can ask your questions then.
And if you don't want to come up on mic, you can ask your questions in the comments and
I'll read those out to people.
One thing I'll chime in with briefly,
sort of to Pantera's point is
with a lot of DeFi applications,
I've been honestly just annoyed
that you see a certain
return and you're like, oh, this looks great. I'm going to get 75% APY, drop some money in there,
and a week, a month later, you have less money, which is all the fanciness of hiding what is
actually happening with your money, the sort of impermanent loss
and a key component of super vaults is like we are really proud of how profitable they are how
well they work um and on the front end we've tried to be as transparent as possible with
what those vaults are actually doing uh and a big piece of that is this performance over hold. So rather
than just looking at what is the performance of the vault, because the performance might be going
up just because the underlying assets are going up. What's obviously like important to the user
is if you're holding Neutron and you put it in a Super Vault, you want to have more Neutron at the
end of the day. Just because the Neutron price has gone up does not mean that putting it in a
super vault was the right decision.
So we've really tried to center all the numbers around comparing to the
underlying asset and be like really transparent about how much money you will
actually make, which in our case has been easy to be honest because the numbers are just speak for themselves.
But it's been really important to be transparent and like you can look at the APY and know that like what you're seeing is at least at that moment exactly what you were going to get.
I will disclaim that with the fact that the performance is going to go up and down as more people deposit in the super vaults, the APY might go down a little bit.
And just as the market changes, it could change.
But like all those charts are as sort of honest and transparent as we can make them, which is something like I'm just very proud of that.
It doesn't feel like we're sort of hiding between hiding behind fancy numbers and arithmetic.
Yeah. I feel like we're sort of hiding behind fancy numbers and arithmetic. Awesome, thank you.
So Ed has joined up as speaker.
Welcome to the stage.
Hey, yeah, thanks a lot for inviting me up.
Just firstly, I just wanna say that these vaults
look absolutely
amazing like appreciate the team to getting these rolled out and sort of pretty excited about where
these are going to head and new markets coming online um i just had a question on on them i
noticed you can um single side deposit sort of either asset into the the pool is is there ever
um does the pool ever want one side of an asset versus the other? And is that sort of
indicated to a user or does it not matter at all? Or does sometimes a vault want more USDC at that
moment in time, for example? I just wanted to ask that. Yeah, that's a great question. Actually,
something I wanted to clarify because it's a little bit non-standard. So when you deposit, yeah, you can deposit any, any ratio of the two assets.
And then the sort of caveat to that is when you withdraw, you will get a pro
rata portion of whatever the current balance is, which you can see on the.
The pool page down under the statistics
section. So even if you deposit, let's say all neutron in a USDC neutron pool, if the
vault is 50-50, when you withdraw, you'll get 50% neutron, 50% USDC. As far as sort of what the vault wants, the goal with these vaults is to keep
them as sort of balanced as possible, like about 50-50 both assets, which one protects
the user. So you're getting basically even exposure to both assets, uh, as it starts to become skewed one way or the other, you're getting,
um, more exposure to one asset, which if it, if that asset goes up, it's great,
but it also means that if it goes down, you're getting sort of more exposure to that asset. Um,
so generally the vaults, yeah. Want to stay balanced
from the user side. Like our, our design decision has been to make it as flexible as possible to the users.
So you can just deposit whatever, even if it's not fully in the interest of the vaults.
The vaults themselves have pretty good logic to rebalance themselves.
So as they become one-sided, it will basically increase the price on the oversupplied asset,
which should sort of force it back into
balance. Down the road, there's probably some chance that we will make the logic a little bit
more complicated. So if you're trying to deposit the oversupplied asset, there might be a tiny fee.
But honestly, I'd like to avoid that. It really depends on
what we're seeing in terms of deposits. Like if we're consistently seeing that the user deposits
are unbalancing pools faster than they can balance, rebalance themselves, we might have to
add a little bit of a fee, which will obviously keep very transparent. But for now, just trying
to keep it maximally flexible
and easy on the user.
Great.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, really appreciate it.
Thanks.
Thanks for your question, Ed.
And up next, Flarn has also requested to speak.
Welcome to the stage.
Hey, hey, everyone.
I've just been playing around with just the app.neutron.org front end, and it's an incredibly smooth user interface.
The bridge, so far I've tried to bridge all the craziest assets that I have scattered about the Cosmos and beyond.
And I haven't had a single transaction last, take more maybe than 15 seconds,
even for the weird ones that typically time out on other front ends.
So very impressive. Well done. It also sees all the assets that you see
on when you select a chain. So really just phenomenal job there. One thing that I'll just
maybe as a quick suggestion, if you bridge an asset from another chain, for example, Stargaze. I just bridged some Celestia over to the and swapped it to D-Atom so that I can add to that 500 APY pool.
There's no way to go back to seeing all the assets you see on the chain.
So, you know, if there's some way to kind of streamline that process, if somebody wants to just, you know, go hog wild and just grab all their assets from a chain and transfer it over, that that might be an improvement in the UX.
had so that's just a just just a little bit of feedback there but a little question i had was
where do we see the or how do we see our personal performance in a super vault and then how does
that um like accumulate i guess like to your position and and do you do you claim the the
the the gains or do they just accumulate over time?
Like, how does that work?
Yeah.
First, the suggestion is super helpful.
We will absolutely think about
how we can sort of streamline that UI.
As far as the seeing your super vaults position,
let me just open some super vaults
so that i can
be as accurate as possible about exactly what you will see um once you've deposited um
you get a a new chart which is my position tvl um so that is if you just have to make a single deposit as you see that line sort of climb up into the right, hopefully,
that is the sort of profit that your position is making.
And then I believe there's one more chart.
I believe that then the performance over...
No, never mind.
Just the MyPositionTVL is going to show how your position is growing.
Wait, hold on.
I'm getting other...
Yes, sorry. Just the My Position TVL
is showing the growth of your position.
As far as sort of where that return is going,
when you deposit into Super Vaults,
you're getting these LP tokens.
And then at any point, you can redeem those LP tokens for your pro rata share of the vault.
So let's assume there's like $100 in the vault, or for easy math, $50 in the vault.
You throw in $50.
There's now $100 in the vault.
I can't do math this morning.
$100 in the vault. As that vault accrues trading fees,
the total amount in the vault is going to go up. So let's say it goes up to $120 TVL in the vault.
You own half the LP tokens for that vault. So when you withdraw, you will then get $60 of value. So you basically
make $10 over the on top of the 50 that you put in. So gotcha, stay fixed. But you're like accruing
value. The value of those tokens is basically going up. And then you can redeem them.
Understood. Okay, that's that's helpful. That's good to know.
Okay. So it's the value accrues to the LP tokens.
And then when you withdraw them,
then that's when you kind of lock in your gain.
Okay. Yeah, that was really it.
I mean, I guess the other question I have,
so there's with these vaults,
and I don't fully understand the mechanics here, but there always seems to be some sort of like capacity. And so for example, the one I'm
looking at here, it's got a $500,000 capacity. So what happens when the capacity is reached?
Does the neutron team then like spin up another vault if there's more demand for that specific pair or do they
increase the capacity how does that work yeah um so the reason we have capacity on these vaults
is basically as the total amount in the vault increases uh at some point the APY is going to go down because it, if there's just not enough demand
to on the sort of trading side to match what the vault has, then you've got all the money
sitting around and like, not all of it is being as sort of actively used.
Um, so as sort of launching these vaults and trying to have as stable and predictable APYs as possible.
We put caps on the vaults just to ensure that like if you're putting money in, you should get
close to or closer to the APY that you're seeing. As sort of we start to hit those caps and as
hopefully volume on the order book increases, we will reassess sort of how the APYs are doing.
If having more TVL in the vaults would be beneficial, we will raise those caps.
The other thing that we will probably do at some point is get rid of the caps entirely and let the market decide basically how much should be in the vault.
market decide basically how much should be in the vault.
So what we should see is like as more and more money goes in, APYs are going to go
down and it's going to be kind of up to users to find that sweet spot of when they
want to deposit, when they want to withdraw and sort of what the optimal amount of
liquidity in the vault is basically defer to, Adam Smith sort of invisible hand of capitalism and just let people
decide. But just to sort of launch these in the most stable way, there are caps, but those will
likely go away or at least increase over time. Cool, cool. Thank you. That was really,
really helpful answer. And I guess one last question just for all my tabbers down in the peanut gallery. When tab pool or when tab Supervolt?
is that they do require these Oracle price feeds.
And to get an Oracle price feed
requires a centralized exchange listing.
So to throw the question back at you,
when Tabcoin on centralized exchange,
when Tabcoin on Binance?
Well put, sir.
Yeah, so I think, you know,
maybe like the Neutron team or, you know, some of the big the big dogs with deep pockets can can work on that. And then we can we can have a true cult cult presence over here on Neutron.
The other thing I will add for Tabcoin and anything else that's sort of smaller is, yeah, Super Vaults are not as well suited for sort of price discovery.
Like they do a really good job market making when there is a centralized exchange price.
The goal with some of the other products that we have is to sort of fill that gap for actually doing price discovery on chain.
app for actually doing price discovery on chain. So obviously, like the Astroport PCL pools that
sit on the decks do a really good job of like price discovery. CL that I've sort of teased
will be a great tool for like price discovery on chain. And maybe down the road, there'll be sort
of a variant of super vaults that is better suited to facilitate and
like market make price discovery on chain. But it may be that there's sort of just different tools
for different situations. So like blue chip tokens will have super vaults, smaller like meme coins or
like new tokens will have Astroport or like concentrated liquidity. and we'll sort of just it may not be like a one size fits all solution, but like LPs will have
The choice to sort of use whichever set of tools is available to be on the LP side of things
Understood no, I appreciate that answer and just overall you guys are doing a great job and I really love the
And just overall, you guys are doing a great job.
And I really love the kind of entire interface
that you guys have put together.
So I'm rooting in your corner.
And yeah, nice work, everyone.
Thanks for answering my questions.
Awesome.
Yeah, kind of speaking to what Florin was saying, if I scroll down to my position, it's
pretty cool how you can track my position TVL on the one hour time frame, the one day,
the one week, one month.
And you can see the chart changes based on what the position TVL is and what the whole value would be over those different time frames.
So there is quite a bit to look at on the SuperVault UI itself.
It looks really nice.
And I suggest all of you to spend some time looking at the different vaults and the statistics, the performances.
There's just a lot of information to check out.
And then once you're in positions, to monitor your positions.
So we're approaching the hour here.
If anyone else has any questions, please request to speak.
In the meantime, Julian, Pantera, if you have any comments,
now would be the time.
Yeah, just wanted to say thank you for having me on. This is my first Twitter space.
This was fun.
And I really can't imagine a better opportunity to hop on and talk about something because
I'm just so proud of SuperVaults.
It took an amazing team of people to build them um both on the the front end
side and then the actual like contracts and and all the data it was it was a massive undertaking
and i am i'm just like very proud of what we built and incredibly excited that we get to
open them up to everyone and give
everyone the opportunity to sort of benefit and profit from these super volts.
It just it feels like it's this really nice, like holistic vision of supporting the ecosystem
by having better prices, supporting users that want sort of passive LP opportunities. And just this sort of positive feedback loop that will hopefully
continue to like scale Neutron, scale the like broader Neutron ecosystem,
open up sort of the possibilities for Bitcoin summer.
So just really excited and encourage everyone to to check out super vaults, throw
a little bit of money in there, experiment, then throw more money in there. You know,
the hope is that these deposit caps will get hit soon. So at least for the time being,
get your money in there. But yeah, thanks guys.
Bravo.
That's all.
Should I take us out?
Neutron account?
Go for it,
Vendera.
All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to the smooth sounds of Neutron account? Go for it, Ben Derret. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to the smooth
sounds of Neutron Radio.
Bitcoin summer coming to a
close as the sun sets
on the horizon of the warm
beach with the salty water
ice cream in your hand.
But get ready, because coming in September
there's going to be more Bitcoin summer
to go around. Everybody out
there, especially the ladies, enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you.
