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Surprise @canetorin Space!
Recorded: June 19, 2025 Duration: 1:24:21Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the pivotal role of Kuma in facilitating community engagement, highlighted significant fundraising efforts with over $20,000 distributed weekly, and announced the launch of the Kuma Academy to enhance educational resources. The conversation also touched on emerging trends in the crypto space, including the upcoming 'Bears Are Bidding' episode, promising to keep the community informed and engaged.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, hello. Thank you. I'm gonna give it a couple of minutes until GN comes.
Hope all of you guys are doing well.
Shout out to Kane and Migmist to the Skito. this kid out. all right so g Jian is not replying.
He might not appear, but hopefully he will.
We'll get a couple more minutes. Thank you. Anyways, how have you guys been doing?
How's everything?
I hope all is good. Alucard says
Migmist is the hardest worker in the streets
for sure man
Migmist is like
everywhere
he's like a real agent
like I'll post something and within
two seconds
there's a like. well in any way while we wait for gn um i want to remind everyone that these spaces would not
be happening without kuma so shout out to kuma if you guys haven't tried come out yet you can try
them out by clicking the link in my bio which will give you 25% off fees
so yeah if you haven't tried it yet uh you definitely should um we're currently giving
out over 20 000 every single week so um you definitely should check it out um and yeah And yeah.
All right, Kane, you want to come up?
Or, I don't know, MGMIST, you want to come up, chat a little bit while we wait for GN if he comes at all?
If you guys don't know Kane,
you definitely should give him a follow.
Kane is like
an OG.
For real. If you guys have any questions, if you guys want to say anything, you can click on the
bottom right corner and I i'll see it right away i really can't you know i just remembered We did have you on the space once. Do you remember?
We had Cred on.
And then...
Yeah, well, Ken is coming.
Ooh-wee.
What's up, baby?
What's up?
All good, man.
How are you?
Doing good.
How about you?
All good.
Evening time. Relax.
A little bit sick still.
Thanks for whatever.
Same. I think I have an ear infection.
Oh, shit. That sucks.
How are you doing, brother? How's everything?
Doing good, man.
Besides the ear infection.
Doing good.
I just remembered we had you on the space once with Cred.
Remember that?
Oh, gosh, yeah.
That was forever ago.
Yeah.
That was literally like a year and a half ago.
It's crazy.
Feels like it was longer.
Nah, nah.
Couldn't be.
It's like a year and a half.
But yeah, how have you been, man? What a boring market, right?
Yeah. Yeah, this is kind of annoying.
Yeah, this is a really boring price action.
It is.
We had that move up from
And I did think that we were not going to pause for this long up here.
I thought we were going to jump straight through to like 120s in this month.
But I kind of posted about it.
It was just like a reply thread.
Somebody asked me about how I thought June would go go i thought it'd be later in the month second half but i thought it would have already gone
by now if it was going to go and then yeah not i mean you know me i'm like conservative i was
closing like i was closing all the way up from 95 all the way
to 110. I was just taking profit.
I didn't expect it to
be...
This was pretty aggressive, honestly.
Yeah, I thought it would keep
going. This is
just boring. But I mean, it makes sense. It's summertime.
Yeah, but that's...
I mean, that's just
this becoming more correlated with boomer shit
like it's yeah it's kind of annoying yeah but yeah i mean the longer the longer cryptos around
the more it will trade like you know gold and just futures and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And that was something that I remember when I first started.
I remember being in the Whale Pool Team Speak in like 2017.
I remember these guys that were older that had traded for a long time.
They were like, enjoy this now.
Like this market will change.
If it stays around, it's going to change. Like enjoy this now. Like this market will change. If it stays around, it's gonna change. Like enjoy this now.
And God damn, what a prescient,
prophetic thing to say.
Cause I was like, what are you talking about?
And having watched this change
over the past couple of years,
like it's still, it's still readable.
Like there's still signatures that are just Bitcoin native, but it's definitely changed.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, listen, me and you, we have a very similar style where both of us trade only,
like we can count on one hand the amount of assets we trade, right?
Yep.
Yep.
And the thing is especially with
like bitcoin and ether for example we used like when you're just watching price action and flow
um now everything is just so big and there's like a hundred types of sources of flow you want to
watch and like suddenly you have futures that you want to look at and you know
etf flows and stuff like that um and it just kind of became all over the place that it's
i don't know it's it's i mean these days i i don't even trade intraday at all um unless we have just
like you know liquidity grabs and stuff like that and like big vol events that i enjoy trading um
and stuff like that and like big vol events that i enjoy trading um but like the intro day stuff
of like the the the microstructure are just uh i don't know for me i kind of just stepped away from
that what i've what i've noticed um and something that i actually got from so i was mainly doing
nasdaq from like where i added NASDAQ in like 22.
Because yeah, you're right.
I trade like a handful of things and it takes me a long time to add something in.
Yeah.
Because I'm weird.
I see it, but I treat it kind of like a relationship.
Like you have to get to know what you're trading and by getting to know it better you can capitalize on generally microstructure things but it's more like of a like a sense of
feeling it's like okay this is acted this way before you might be able to size up a little
bit more just take a little bit more advantage of something by having this one thing that you're very intimately aware
with. But after NASDAQ, I noticed that off the New York Open, literally every day, we will have
some in either direction, around about $1,000 move, whether it's, you know, 102 to 103,
one six to one five,
very similar to how NASDAQ within like the first 30 minutes on a normal day
will have a 60 handle run in one direction.
So if you're, for what I was doing for a while,
I only had like an hour to trade each day.
So I just focus on this run off the open,
but that's really it for my growth structure.
Other than that kind of the same, it's like a four hour chart,
one hour chart. I'm like waiting multiple days. And it's like, okay.
And then you just take it but right now
this reminds me of what is it
I guess it was summer of
let me see
I know what you mean
when we were at
yeah
we were just trading like a 30k
yes 30 down to 25 yeah yeah that also felt like ages
yes it contracted a lot there like a lot i hope to god it does not contract like that
God, it does not contract like that.
Listen, you know, on one hand, it's kind of nice because...
But it's always...
It goes both ways because, like, every single time we have a crazy volatile bull market,
you'll have, like, these moments where you say,
oh, I just want everything to relax so I can take a rest
and kind of step away without feeling FOMO and everything.
And then when you do have those times when you...
You know, everything just doesn't move,
no volatility,
and everything like that, you're like,
I just want some volatility. I just want things
to move.
But yeah.
That's what I added
in queue.
Boomer shit tends to
get far more volatile
as it goes down um so i really just
love the short side for the boomer stuff because it's i mean when we're going up and you have the
options stuff there's all this stuff to consider with that but it's like it's just more fun and
easier to read on the way down yeah on the way down i feel like it's more it's more like it's
like a lot you can feel people's pain you know you can feel the panic, I feel like it's more like you can feel people's pain.
You can feel the panic.
And I feel like it's much easier to play on it.
I don't really short that much anymore.
But when I used to short, I just always said that the most fun and amazing thing about taking a downside position is how fast it goes.
Yep.
You're hitting target within like 12 hours usually.
If it's a good position.
I've posted many tweet threads about this.
And I know that in silico,
Trip talked about this years ago as well.
Even in a bull market,
it is like,
it is positive EV to short because you might take 10 days to get a 10%
move up and you might take 10 hours to get a 10% move up and you might take 10
hours to get a 10% move down. And if you think of, as I have, like time is a factor of risk.
The amount of time that you're in a trade is every minute is one more minute that somebody
with a, you know, like a retard amount of money can just just go like oh i feel like doing this and completely
screw up your entire trade so i am everything i do is basically built around i will wait and wait
and wait and wait until it is highly probable that the move will be quick like i don, I do not like trades that take forever.
Yes.
Like, I know.
Yeah.
Like, like, oh, it's, I get more and more uncomfortable the longer it goes, even if I'm in profit.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like shorting bull markets, like, it has a place it's just you i feel like you really need to be a good trader in the sense of being able to just know and and control yourself and say okay yeah i'm wrong that's it and cut
things and be very flexible and stuff like that because you know a lot of people will be like oh
we went up you know i see a bearish setup they take it and it just keeps rallying, right? Because you're in a bull market
and then people are like, oh, yeah, no,
no, this will crash.
It just cannot keep going up
like this. It doesn't make any sense.
And, you know,
you get asterisked.
Shout out to
I love you.
Yeah, with the shorts, like, I never, ever, ever blind short.
Yeah.
Like, just, I need to have, like, what was it, the,
like, I wanted to short around 110,
but I did not actively get into a short until after we had broken down to 106
and then gone back to 83.
Like I don't.
You're talking about 110 in the retest?
Yeah, last week.
Or like when, what was it the so I wanted the short six four and I literally waited for from the 29th
of May all the way to the to the fifth yeah for the gym like I don't
doesn't take a lot of patience to sit and wait because I know with the shorts
doesn't take a lot of patience to sit and wait because i know with the shorts
if i'm right it should move away from my entry quickly and i want it to be going to my my target
more quickly like there was a short from what was it when the only i closed my longs from 94 around
109 but i didn't short for what seven three four five days
no very very patient with with those because yeah in a bull market like i've seen it so many times
yeah i've said it can't keep yes it can bro like it totally can it totally can't keep going
yes it can bro like it totally can it totally can't keep going people i feel like a lot of
people just don't don't realize how ridiculous like trends can get especially in crypto um
and like this whole stance of ah there's no way it keeps going down like do you remember
it even goes to the other way um you probably remember we were like in the like midst of the bear market we're
talking like this was like mid 2022 like down to like 40k or 30k and then
people came with this dumb narrative of like oh we just had eight red weeks in a
row yep so like we never had nine red weeks in the past.
So like the next one has to be green.
So I'm longing.
And I was like, that's such a, that's such a dumb thing to say.
Yes, it is.
Totally is.
And like so many people got wrecked when we ended up having like 10 or 11 red weeks
in a row or something like that.
But yeah, it's just like the train will keep like the momentum of the train will drag you far.
It will.
More often than not.
Question.
Yeah, listen, dude, I really want to we have you here on stage.
People are listening and people are demanding to have an episode focused on you, Cain.
Shut up.
We need to have an episode, man.
Shut up. Fine. Okay.
What do I need to do? Who's dig do I need to get you on the space?
Just give me a heads up.
Two week notice.
We'll handle something. We'll make it happen.
We'll make it happen.
Deal.
What are you saying? I'm sorry.
I was going to ask,
what we're talking about right now,
how many times have you found within this range
that
the first place that you know you should get out is right and holding on you just round trip stuff
um yeah yeah most of the time um most of the time that's the correct take and i feel like even when it's not the correct time
like because because most okay let me let me phrase it this way most of the times when i have
this feeling it's because i don't have a proper plan right because if i already have an invalidation
i'll get out no matter what right and like the moments where
you have to ask yourself that question is usually when you don't really have a
plan right right and so usually I would say that almost always if I don't if I
somehow I'm in a trade where I don't have a solid plan and I get caught off
guard and I'm asking myself should I I, should I not, whatever. It's almost, it's like 99.999% the correct answer would be just get out
because you're already acting emotionally.
A hundred percent agree.
Yeah.
So like this is just proof that you're not in control.
You have no idea what's going on.
Just get out of the trade.
And if anything, like literally it's like like because you see the red numbers in front of
you the red bnl is driving you crazy um and there's this trick even with green like with profitable
trades um i i remember i was listening to this podcast with uh tom dante and he was talking about
how in in one of the prop desks he used to work at, if you had a really nice deep in the money
trade,
they would come to you, close your trade
and then just tell you, oh, just open
it with the original stop loss
and the take profit.
And many times the risk of war
just wasn't worth it. And that's already getting into
the topic of evolving R
and everything.
But sometimes the numbers just blind you, right?
So if you're really feeling you're out of control, stuff like that,
just close the trade and re-evaluate things.
Even open the same trade at the same price,
just a fresh one with no red P&L and stuff like that.
Sometimes that'll be even better.
I would concur with that
I was trying to think of
people who are listening talking about
trading specifically
that's
something that I don't know if I've ever
I don't have a big
problem
and I've always found that
it's always best
I told myself I was going to close here
I'm not really concerned about it continuing to run past Like, and I've always found that it's always best. Like I told myself I was going to close here.
I'm not really concerned about it continuing to run past.
I'm trying to think of like what most people deal with.
I have no problem taking parcels.
Like I really want to get that stop loss paid for as reasonably as quick as possible.
And then what I've found is beyond that, like there's just something when I'm in it,
I know that I don't,
even if I'm winning,
I don't read things correctly.
It's like why for me,
it's hard to be in swings and scalps at the same time sometimes.
On the same account.
It's on the same account.
Yeah, exactly.
On the same account.
I have to have a completely separate account, separate exchange.
But really, especially in ranges, like you know you wanted to sell 108, stop loss 109.
You said you were going to close at 106.
You get down there, it looks like it's gonna
keep going doesn't matter bro just the the biggest thing is sticking to what you told yourself you
would do and in reality like i like that you know close it open it back up same stop loss you get a
you get an idea of what you're actually risking by not paying yourself.
And at the same time, if you are correct in the move,
there might be multiple times for you to get back in.
Yeah.
100%.
There's always,
even if you're looking at,
most of the trades have a lot of,
we can call it micro
trades within them.
There's never really a rush
to do something.
And almost every single setup,
especially big setups, like swing trades that I'm taking
like intra month intra
year
because some trades I'll hold for like
three months sometimes
and like obviously
in those trades there's so much
so much time and so many
opportunities to just get in and
add and stuff like that
there's never there's never a reason
to rush anything i feel like like the only reason to rush is like on very specific events it's like
when you have insane liquidation days and super mega like liquidation volumes and you know all
the crazy moves that we were having like For example, in early February this year,
when we had the crazy down move overnight,
it was overnight for Europeans.
We had a 10% WIC on BTC and on ETH.
Let me check.
me check yeah underneath it was insane it was like uh yeah 30 percent wick overnight um
On ETH, it was insane.
It was like 30% WIC overnight.
those are the only instances where you really have to act fast if you want to catch a piece of
the pie you know but yeah i mean again and again it shows and proves itself that like the most patience traders are are the ones who win and like survive most importantly
you know yep but yeah are you positioned right now are you in any trade yeah
long from 103.8 and i hate it long from 103.8 and you hate it. Long from? 103.8.
And you hate it.
Let's see.
Because it's been so slow down here.
Yeah, it is really slow, but it's a nice entry, though.
I hate how it just bleeds down right now.
And we're also under Monday range, which I don't like.
Yeah, I bought a little bit more
104.2 today.
But if we get below
like 1036,
I'll cut that ad.
Yeah. Do you like 1036 i'll cut that ad yeah do you um when you have an invalidation i'm wondering do you
only focus on closes or do you like for you a wick would be enough
i know i run i run hard stops.
Yeah, okay.
But like with this, because of the size, so I'll do the – I'm mainly looking because I had a short from 107.4 down to 4.4.
And I held part of that short because I knew I wanted to buy 3.8.
Yeah.
Oh, so that was like a Monday high range to Monday low.
If I find a place that I want to buy, like I knew I bought 301.
And because I knew I wanted to buy 301, I was looking when we had broke down to 107.
Okay, is there a possibility of me getting a short into my long?
a short into my long. I'm focused on the long, but if I'm going to knife catch, I want to knife
I'm focused on the long.
catch with some insurance. So I try to use the short into the long entry to cover me. So I'm
still holding a little bit of a short, but I'm definitely leaning upside.
If this is similar to summer of 23,
I think that this shitty bearish looking thing
that we're doing down here is going to resolve upside.
And even still, I don't like this trade
because of how long it's taking.
Generally, I mean, the entries have reacted correctly.
And the entries have reacted correctly.
But generally, if I'm right,
it moves away and towards my target more quickly.
So this is kind of outside of my comfort zone.
But we're gonna hold this because this is positioning for if we do go up,
then I have a base to add on.
That's something also that I've gotten better at is.
Just basically building positions.
Yeah.
A lot of times you win and then you have a target in mind, but taking profits before that target is something I guess a lot of people, I mean, we all, I think, have dealt with but so for this it's like i have i added some and then if we're gonna go up
i have a an idea of where i'm gonna take some off so that the entire position is is paid for
but then also where i would aggressively add if i think this is going to 123, I know I can pay for the trade around
like 107,
cover the stop loss and everything.
And then as we go up,
just add on that.
But so far,
a few cuts and bruises,
but playing the rain, I think I tweeted it like, or was I talking to XO?
Like, when we had the stuff in late last month, I'm like, okay, this looks like it might be a larger range that we're going into, and that's been true.
But, yeah.
What about you?
You doing alts?
Did you do any of the meme coin shit?
Like, I have not done any of it.
Barely any.
I'm basically in a group chat.
I think it's the group chat I added you to,
but you weren't active,
so you got kicked out.
Yeah, I was working.
There's a bunch of friends there,
like Heart and Sweet Che cheeks and stuff like that.
And they just basically send contract addresses.
And I just I just ape.
I just listen to them.
I just have like a wallet with some money in it.
And I just I just follow them.
It's up.
It's up nicely.
Like I think I'm up like 15x or something.
But yeah, I just treated like a casino you know i just have some
fun and that's it um but no i don't trade them current i mean right now i don't have any positions
i'm just holding on like i'm fully in spot um i bought i was buying a bunch when uh we were
between 80 and i was basically i had bids basically from 80 all the way down to 84
i'm 74 sorry from 80 to 74. um so i almost got like 100 filled and then when we had to close above
um 82 i just market bought the rest and so i've been full spot ever since um and i had some longs as well leverage longs that are
closed from 95 all the way to 105 and um and right now it's kind of like it's just uh i wouldn't say
it's bearish because we have horrible news going on around the world and we're holding really
nicely but also it's hard to call it bullish because
a good read like a good breakout doesn't retest right um so we're kind of in like this twilight
zone where like basically it wouldn't surprise me if tomorrow we have a minus 10 day and it
also wouldn't surprise me if we have a plus yes yes yes i mean i'm in the same spot like
lower time frame i look four hour it's like okay this is a good buy but then i look at the daily
i'm like oh my god what am i doing yeah this is what i'm saying it it's just yeah either way would
not surprise me yeah yeah so that's why these positions, I'm just, you know, I feel like when you're trading crypto,
when you're trading overall, you're a gambler, right?
You're a professional gambler.
That's what it is.
Let's be clear.
That's my opinion.
Let's be clear about it.
I think trading professionally, it doesn't matter if you're trading for a prop firm,
if you're trading in the New York Stock Exchange and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, it doesn't matter if you're trading for a prop firm, if you're trading in the New York Stock Exchange
and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
It doesn't matter where you're trading.
You're a professional gambler.
You're a professional at identifying risks
and evaluating if they're worth it or not, right?
Just like a poker player.
A poker player gambles, but it's plus EV gambling, right?
Which is a very big distinction between you know just
playing roulette or something or you know playing a plus ev game um but basically
i i feel like at these types of times where you can have a spot position and just chill especially
when you're deep in profit and you're willing to give some of it back you know just to have a clear cut view of the market um that's exactly why i'm having
so many different accounts and so many different wallets that i'm just gambling on just fucking
buying trash like house coin and like i don't know why it feels like i have so many shit coins i have
i don't even know what they are um and that And that's for me what's holding me in place.
You know what I mean?
Because if you're sitting in front of a screen,
you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
You'll sit enough in front of the screen,
and no setup comes.
Your brain will just start making shit up.
You'll suddenly see the setup,
and it's like the most garbage thing in the world,
but you haven't taken a trade in four days, so you like you're not working and you're not doing shit and your brain is like
oh this is really really good like you just have to do something you know yeah i know that i know
i know that intimately
the amount of times i got myself into such deep holes just because of this feeling
and then like and the classic thing is that the accounts liquidation comes when exactly when the
setup you're you were waiting this whole time for happens oh all the time yeah for like almost all the time burn one thing into your brain people no i'm fine no i'm not nope nope nope nope
nope nope at the moment that you're like oh my god i've lost 90 i can't it's gonna it's gonna
rebound so just cut it early like that that is one of the reasons why even with the size that I trade, I still use hard stops. Because if I
determine that under no duress at all, that if it goes here, I'm wrong, I'm going to trust that.
Now, let's say if I get wicked out and it's a stop run okay sure i just lost whatever
but if it truly is a stop run you take the l and you get back in and you have a new new
invalidation like i i'm not i'm not scared of that the number number, I've been, my stops here. Old school BitMEX days, it hits me by literally like a few dollars.
I'm like, okay, maybe that was a bad placement.
But regardless, it's clearly reversing.
Just get back in.
Get back in.
The alternative, trust me, as someone, this is the King lore,
I have blown everything many times. Stupidly um we've all been there but after
enough time you just get there yeah but like it is i sat underwater staring at liquidation so many infinitely preferable to take your 5, 10,
20% hit,
for a walk and punch a tree
than to lose 90%
and be completely demoralized.
I've talked about this so many times,
the idea of mental capital.
If your mind is right, you can recover any percentage or any dollar percentage loss.
If you take the wrong types of losses and you break your brain, you can lose money forever.
yeah
Yeah.
it's like that
it's like that Dave Chappelle joke
when he says like
when he comes to his dad and he's like
dad I'm sick of being
I'm sick of being poor
and dad's like no son you're not poor
poor is a mindset
and you're just broke
unironically
wholeheartedly agree with that, believe that, yes.
Yeah.
No, it's fully real.
It is.
But yeah, I fully agree.
I feel like trading, and if you literally look at my profile, my bio says professional mistake maker.
I always says professional mistake maker because like I feel like being like trading full time is literally like most of what you do is just take you know small losses until you find the right thing to do like I don't know what about you but I feel like if I take all of my accounts and all of my journals my win rate is probably around like 30% something like that maybe 35 I don't know somewhere around that basically two-thirds of
my trades i cut at a loss right um you really have to know that you know it's just a setback
it is what it is i get pissed off sometimes i'll go out like you said punch a tree go for a run
something uh go train muay thai but it's it's just a part of the game. It's part of doing business. It is.
And yeah.
I just remember,
like you said about this, just getting
burnt
back in 21,
in May 21, when we had the first
crash from 60 to 30.
I remember
that my liquidation price was at like...
I moved everything to that account.
Everything.
Every single dollar I've had, I was depositing from bank accounts.
I was like moving money from cold wallets, everything.
And I kept on adding to the position.
Like I was just, it was horrible.
And anyways, it got to the point where BTC was trading at a pico low at like 29.8, I think that was the low.
And my liquidation was at like 28.9 or something.
I was basically like 1k away from losing everything.
losing everything and um and i remember price instantly bounced to like to like i don't know
i think we bounced to like 40 or something like that um and i just i just closed everything
and i just left for like three for like a month i think uh just to punch things and relax and i came back to to an account with like i don't know like
a 95 drawdown or something like that because i was getting like basically it was it was an fdx
so they were like auto-deleveraging you if the price wicks were too big and stuff like basically my position was getting smaller at certain times damn
yeah
that was rough but that's listen you're
building character you know what I mean
I agree
I agree
it's funny watching like the
cause I
cause I do the boomer shit and I've
I'd like watching
Forex Guru videos is kind of a
guilty pleasure of mine just watching
it's like there's so much
talk about
like static
risk management by like a younger
generation and it's interesting
like dude I grew up with
like some old heads it's like, like, dude, I grew up with, like, some old heads.
It's, like, very dynamic risk management, very, like, feeling-based from experience.
And, like, sometimes your size needs to be appropriate to the opportunity.
Yeah. size needs to be appropriate to the opportunity.
Yeah.
But then again,
I forget the Munger quote about leverage.
Something about,
what was it?
Like three things that are horrible.
What one's the worst?
Three things that'll make you poor.
It's like drugs,
women and leverage.
They said leverage is the worst. Oh yeah. I yeah i've seen that someone posted a couple of days ago
but let's talk about this it's like okay so for context with people listening like
i've i still work a job um and i mean i've blown up even recently in the last year uh so i'm i'm still learning
my lesson but this the one thing that i completely agree with or reminds me of is
uh when you're starting or learning i made a thread about this. It's like, get a second job, deliver Uber,
you make your, your 200, $300 extra a month and you keep throwing $20 into an account
and blowing the fuck out of that thing over and over and over again. Like the goal when you're
starting is to make as many, take as many trades as possible. You want to learn. You learn through experiences.
This is why I've always been a much lower timeframe
focused trader is because when I was learning,
if you believe that the information
that the one minute candles or three minute candles
or five minute candles gives you is the same as a four hour,
not in context context of like importance but it
translates the same information then why wouldn't i throw 20 into account risk a dollar
two dollars on like a three minute chart and get five trades in a day and learn five times as fast
trades in a day and learn five times as fast.
If you're here to learn,
making as many mistakes as possible is the way.
And you make sure that the money that you're losing is not going to kill you.
That's the other thing I've done. I've traded to try and make bills.
It fucking sucks. It is so...
It is in the long run like i've done it
for a few months um but eventually something snaps and you blow up and you're in a worse
position than before like this is what i've done this is just the mistakes that i've made right
now like that's why i was like yeah this is kind is kind of nice. And I kind of hate it. Cause it's like,
I look at the four hour, the one hour, I'm going to buy there.
I'm going to stop here and then I go drive. Um,
but as far as like learning, I hunted,
like make as many mistakes as possible as quickly as possible and do it with
real money. You don't have to put all of your savings in there. I really,
I've driven this home in so many threads. Like you, you increase and I, like, I do this. I,
I am doing this. I drive extra hours to work and I had just small accounts.
I'm like, okay, I've been doing stupid shit for a long time. I need to relearn something.
Okay. I'm just going to go in. It's an amount that is inconsequential to lose. You pay more
in food every day for some people and you learn and you have to learn with real money, in my opinion. That's how I started. I don't see the value in demo.
I have interesting opinions about prop firms.
There's a lot of hate towards it.
I would say that if you're thinking about it and you're going to spend like $500 or $100 on a challenge, but you're newer,
I think, in my opinion, you'd be better off putting that $100, like $20 at a time, into an account and just seeing what you can do with it.
to an account and just seeing what you can do with it like the yeah i mean i i try to think of
the i don't i don't know where everyone's you know skill level is at as far as trading as
far as everybody listening but i think of like applicable information yeah i mean trading with
you have to trade with real money with your money with real money and feel the emotions of it.
Right. Feel the hype when you're in profit, feel the down when you're in loss.
You have to get used to those feelings and learn how to control them.
A hundred percent.
And yeah, I remember Jim Talbot was tweeting and he wrote how one of his friends who's like he wanted to learn how to trade.
So Jim is kind of like mentoring him and everything.
And Jim told him, put like 100 pounds into an account and just start trading.
Let's collect some data.
And the guy was like, oh, dude, I'm not going to make any money like this.
Right?
Because if I gobble my account, I just made 100 pounds. So he's like, i'm not gonna make any money like this right because if i double my
account it's made 100 pounds so he's like you're not you're not trying to make money you're trying
to you're trying to collect data you're trying to understand what are your strong sides what are
your weak sides what you're good at what you're bad at what you should avoid what you should try
to you know you know aim for um and that's that's the thing you have to learn like i feel like it it might sound very like
spiritual and dumb but i really feel like a person getting into trading should be ready for
like an actual self-discovery journey like really it is. You really understand who you are, how you handle stress, how you handle pressure, bad moments, good moments.
Because, like, the job itself, when you're doing this full-time and you're dependent on trading, it's a fucking roller coaster, right?
And, yeah, not everyone can just jump right into it.
Well, as you progress,
like,
no offense,
but it should only take you about a year.
If you're staring at
charts for like three to four hours a day,
it should only take
about a year to learn to read a chart.
Sorry if that's offensive that's just about
it other than that i would say it takes about from all of our guests are for kind of you but
from all of the people that come here i asked them a question of how long did it take you to
become profitable um or or at the very least stop losing money and the universal answer is around
two years basically so i'm guessing it
takes around a year year and a half maybe for people to learn how to read charts and stop
losing money and then maybe another six months to start making money like from just everyone
who's coming here okay well that's kind of the distinction that i'm playing into is like the you
the time it takes to be able to
interpret the information
correctly
let's say
is shorter
than the time it will
take you to learn to manage
yourself
and after after learn it's like i know these
i know the scales i know the notes i understand all these things about music theory but that's
the information part like it might take a long time
to figure out how to compose a piece compose a song it's it's a different skill but like after
learning how to read the music like it really is just managing yourself and that's why like Like getting in with real money earlier and doing it in the correct way.
Like things that have always led to me blowing up, like needing to make money.
One, because if you're focused on the money because of an outside force, it's always led to a problem.
It's always led to a problem. But really, the interpretation of the information is a minuscule part of the career. And the rest is just that journey of learning how to manage yourself.
Like, really, like, what are my problems that are going to come to the surface?
This is a psychological scalpel.
Like, this, I've always joked, like, this is the most intimate, violent, unforgiving, but awesome therapist ever.
Yeah.
It really is. Like, you're going gonna figure out where you're fucking up in life
unless you're an actual retard like you're going to like the information will be present
like it will be there oh i am impulsive oh i'm undisciplined oh i am this like it's it's going to it's going to show up if you're if you're aware enough
to realize the information being presented to you uh it will be there yeah and it's not that
like trading is special or something i feel like just any job that is very emotional would teach
you that and i feel like trading is mega emotional
like just again
the emotional roller coaster
you go through
you know it's just
it's very unique I feel like
and like every single time I talk to like
friends and stuff like that and they hear that
I work from home and I have like a home office
oh that's so cool
my job sucks
like my job is amazing at times and like it's the worst job in the world at times
because like i don't know any other job when you can wake up and be like oh my god i went
to sleep and i'm down like a hundred grand yeah yeah it's been a while been a while since that for me been a long time but it's funny because
i talk to irl people i'm with my girl and stuff happens and it's like i'm just like
uh really that that made you feel that way it's like huh that that wasn't that stressful but
they cut us up like yeah it's like that's not
bad like holy shit like whoo maybe i do and then i think back to like how i feel sometimes i'm
gone up and down or blah i'm like okay maybe losing everything
and needing to borrow money for rent like maybe i have mature maybe i am like really callous the months it's like oh they almost t-boned me and traveling like no that's i stopped like we're all
alive like it's fine yeah it's so it's so bad dude i remember back then in my in may 21 um
while this whole shit storm was going on because we were going down from 60 to 30 for
two weeks so i was basically eating shit for two weeks non-stop and um or like a week and a half
or a week or something like that but anyways um i remember very very well how i was sitting in a
restaurant um me and a bunch of friends and like all of my friends
have like some crypto explosion like they buy like a hundred dollars worth of it every week or some
shit like that you know like i'm sitting with them in the restaurant and i'm like i can't eat like i'm
physically i don't know how many of our listeners have experienced this but like when you have a big
enough loss you can't you physically
feel the pain like I couldn't eat yep you know I put something in my mouth and I would want to
throw up immediately crazy so I'm like I order I still remember I would I ordered like a huge
Vienna schnitzel you know it was like this huge piece of meat I'm like what the am I doing
and then my friend goes like ah dude did you see the crypto market i'm down like i think i lost like two thousand dollars like the last time and like
it's very pretentious of me to feel that way but i was like in my head i'm like dude what the
are you talking about what two thousand dollars dude i'm like thinking of jumping out of the window that yeah i'm
for related for for late yeah for relatableness sake i will use percentages i just what's always
the thing that's always gotten to me the most is when there's a steady consistency.
And then in literally a day of retardation, nuke like 60% of an account after building it up for weeks and weeks.
And I'm sure that is relatable.
Yeah.
But even in those times,
because this is why I say like,
play with real money and lose all of your $20 or all your $100.
Like it's okay because I can because I've been here before.
What did I do wrong?
Why am I still doing it?
And then what I've found, honestly,
is like if I just walk away for three days,
no screens, no nothing,
my brain essentially just purges the RAM and I can come back
without thinking
about what was lost, without
connecting it. It's like, yeah, I had
a thousand, now I'm down to 400, blah, blah, blah.
It's really impossible
in the first day or two
to objectively go back
into that.
Impossible.
I've found that if I just sleep sleep well for a few days and and distance myself from it it kind of just resets the the mental capital
i feel like unless you've experienced this many many times and you went through the process and and learned and like
shown yourself at the very least that you can control that um like you can't tell me that you
you'll take a huge loss like 15 20 percent of your equity in like one single intraday trade or some
like that and you'll be able to not revenge trade for the rest of the day
like it's it's just there's no way so like every single time that i take a big loss or even if
it's just something that really pisses me off like for example if i miss an amazing setup right
if i'll miss a crazy good setup that i've been waiting for and I missed it because I was second-guessing myself or I did something else,
I was walking the dog and decided to leave my phone at home, whatever it is, even because of that, I'm going to leave.
I'll take a day off, you know?
Because, again, you have to come down to your senses.
You have to relax.
You have to just let it go.
And sometimes it's hard, you know?
And it's okay to
admit it right sometimes it's just really really hard to tell yourself okay i fucked up it is what
it is moving on um but yeah yeah gotta be honest with you i agree no i you're cute 15% for context
most of my trades
run between 10 and 15%
risk per trade
so yeah
dude I think most of my trades
are like in the
up to 5% risk or something.
So it's, I'm such a pussy nowadays.
Well, yeah, that, that's, that's an interesting thing that I have to think about as I, as I grow.
But I can say that, like, I know I have a threshold and and i'm and i'm not taking like all 15 right off the
jump like at this 103 8 you know i'm i'm in a short covering my bid i'm only bidding probably like let's say i don't really care it's not like
anybody in the call is going to nuke the price and stop me out so i buy 308 and 208 is my
or 28 is my stop um if it goes down a thousand dollars i lose 15 i'm not buying the full clip the first time
yeah at three that's like that's like the stop you have in mind if you get to full positioning
basically right and that is the stop that comes like i still wouldn't i'm not i'm still not at
full sizing right now um just because i i don't like the structure i probably won't get into full sizing
until like after we're back above like five five and that's yeah like basically you're willing to
pay a premium just to make sure that you're like you basically get a confirmation that your idea
is actually working out and there's, and you're just paying hard.
Absolutely. Like when we went down to like a hundred K,
like I had had an eye on,
it's like that four hour candle, like the low is like 105.
I'm like, I'm like, or, or I posted about this a lot.
I posted
like this
when we were up at like 1.9
or 1.10.
I was like, this area
like 1.03.1.
And it took like
fucking 10 days
or four, no, eight days to get there.
And it ended up just being there to like 106.
And I still didn't get the full sizing for it just because the structure didn't look right.
Yeah, I'm totally willing to wait for like price action to confirm yeah i've posted this too like i'm
i really really want momentum and i'm really only i'm not putting that full sizing in on a knife
catch that's actually that's fucking insane no i'm i'm like my, my main trade that was the 15% risk.
Like I didn't buy 84.
I didn't do it until 94.
I literally, I waited like 10, 12 days for this trade to happen.
But because, because I waited and was right, it was like, we went from my buy up to, you know, 104 within like two days.
Like that is precisely what I'm looking to do.
So yeah, that, that, that's one thing, but I know if, if I get,
if I'm wrong on that, the, the full size, the full clip,
I need to wait a few days because those types of things usually
happen once every like depending on the the volatility like i've only had like
fucking like five six of those trades in like the last month
intraday stuff i mean listen good trades don't come often.
Dude, there's weeks where I take
one trade.
That's okay.
All of my blowups have been
when I use
that type of sizing for
super shit opportunities.
Going into it. I know. When I'm winning and doing everything for like super shit opportunities. Like going into like,
I know it's like,
okay,
when I'm winning and doing everything right,
like I get an opportunity like this once every five days.
So why am I trying to take five of these in one day?
No wonder I lost all of my money.
Like it's very clear when it's going wrong.
It's just a matter of putting a lid on that but
really just going back going back into like i'm just going to swing the four hour and
and drive and work like it's like oh i'm winning more and this is fucking boring and I hate it. Great. It's like, thanks.
Thanks.
I hate it.
Part of the game.
And I know like somebody that's like, ah, yeah,
I don't want to work my job anymore, doesn't want to hear this.
Like, same, bro.
Like, I'm still working.
And I retweeted.
I was trading and working for like four years.
Yeah, I'm in that
process now. I retweeted
this Alex
from Moses quote the other day because
he posted and I was like, oh
god damn it.
It says
you're in a rush
because you're in pain
and you're in pain because you're in a rush.
And I'm just like, God damn it. That is so relevant. So relevant.
Patient as death.
It's my reminder to myself.
Yeah.
Yeah. For anybody here who's unironically still in the trenches, like, dude,
I can say this from personal, currently lived experience.
Get the second job.
Keep working.
Increasing the income has helped me tremendously.
It's like, why would you rush? You need, you need something
paid right now. It's like, dude, I have prolonged my recovery for years because I was fighting this.
Like for, I'll just start out there for context, like 2016, 2017,
I'll just throw it out there for context.
2016, 2017, got super lucky, had some good friends.
I think peak was around $5 million.
And I lost all of that by 2019.
Damn.
Lost all of it.
Got to go pregnant.
Became a dad.
Good combo.
And tried to trade small amounts of money for years without getting a job.
Yeah, just basically prolonged everything and then had some hiccups along the way.
But as someone who's made it and then fucked up,
like, every time that I've tried to force it,
I've set myself back months at a time.
Like, if there's one thing that somebody who's trying to learn this doesn't want to hear,
because I didn't want to hear it, it's going to take longer than you think.
It's like, okay, if I believe that, how could I prepare for this to take longer?
Okay, well, I could just get a second job.
And I'm not talking shit.
I work 80 to 100 hours a week right now on top of trading.
Granted, I've already learned how to read price, and I only trade price.
We were talking earlier the beginning about all this
flow and stuff love like dude i i fucking stare at a blank chart price action yep that is everything
else is they're they're icing on the cake uh and yes could i could i go into footprint charts
order flow and use that effectively?
Absolutely.
Old school BitMEX having the liquidations in the order book.
There were so many trades where it's like,
okay,
this person just got wrecked and I've seen this before.
There's a huge bid come in like that.
That is going to be where my stop can be.
Cause we're going to you know momentum ignition
in the opposite direction yes there are tons of little opportunities like that but the general
flow like what are the general conditions right now of the market can i just play the extremes
of this range with small size and just let it play out while I drive my car?
It's like, yes, yes. But like the having the outside income and increasing that however you
can or need to so that you're comfortable so that when I sit down, I don't need anything to work right now.
Am I going to be irritated that this takes longer?
Yes.
But I also know that if I resist this,
I can spend way more time being poor or being broke,
not poor, being broke.
What about you, man?
I feel like you haven't completely nuked your entire net worth on your journey.
I know some traders boom and bust a lot.
Some people get a good base and keep going.
What about you?
no i've never had a complete uh wipeout i've had um i haven't i've had twice where i had like a 95
No, I've never had a complete wipeout.
haircut basically but never never all of it and um and yeah i mean my trading has really changed
i used to take much bigger risks.
But I was younger.
I had less responsibility.
Now I have my pets. I have a little girl running around my feet sometimes.
I cash out way more. And i don't deposit anything back in
my risk profile is very different um but yeah i took those cuts i took those haircuts and and
i mean maybe i just got lucky that i didn't lose it all and in in some way deep down inside, I do know that I just got lucky
and I didn't lose everything.
And I think it's just a part of it.
Like, I really do not know
a single good long-time trader
who never had those events happen to him.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, literally.
Like, especially in our space.
Like, maybe in the traditional space, there's like like especially in our space like maybe in the traditional
space there's like especially especially in our space i i think people would be people would be
surprised it's like some of the people that you think have always been sitting pretty like there
there's group chats there's texts like you would not believe the names that have almost, almost Rage Quit Life.
Dude, the amount, like, obviously I'm not going to mention any names, but just in the
last two, three years, there's been, like, I can think of top, like, of ten people out
of the top of my mind that are really active on cte and like
very followed and everything that i've been talking to in dms and they were like dude i i
don't know what to do like you know and that's okay it's not a bad thing like i've been there
you know you've been there we've all been there it's part of the game and um and i think that's
okay i think it's something that you have to go through.
Basically, I'm happy that I've had those events happening.
I'm happy I went through it because if I wouldn't,
it's kind of inevitable.
You know what I mean?
It will happen to you as long as you keep trading someday.
And it will scar you so hard that you will never do those mistakes again the best
lessons are that you learn are the most expensive ones as well you know agreed i'm i'm definitely
definitely implementing things now that i've had it's i've been a little bit retarded, been a little thick headed,
taking some time to learn some stuff.
It's like the other day,
Nexus tweeted something about,
you know,
cashing out and there were somebody in the replies.
I'm like,
why would you cash that now?
It's like,
bro,
you don't need a reason to.
I have been broke for so long.
Like, yes, like right now.
Okay, so having some cash and some prop firm account.
I am like cashing out into the bank,
Like cashing out into the bank, like 50 to 75% of the firm profits, like trading account be damned, like margin of safety, number of months of bills in the bank is the most important thing.
I tweeted, I said, if somebody gave me 100K today, I would put 80 to 90 of it in the bank is the most important thing i tweeted i said if somebody gave me 100k today i would put
80 to 90 of it in the bank yeah and trade trade the 10 like there there is no it is not even a
second thought it's like the thing you know like you like you posted your cashing out. Someone asks you, why the hell would you cash out?
I mean, you can make you can turn this into such a bigger stack.
And then like the first thing I imagine is like this picture of the Joker smoking
of Joaquin Phoenix.
Yeah, you wouldn't get it.
You know, that's just how it is.
Because like, again, I legitimately believe that every single person replying that
to people talking about cashing out has never experienced a 95 plus percent drawdown on his
network you know um sorry i got a call so yeah no i i agree no worries um i worries. We've been going on for an hour
and 20 minutes now.
Wow.
Time passes fast when you're having fun.
Listen, dude.
I'd love to have you on someday
for a full-on episode
again about you as well.
We were having a lot of people
in the comments.
We have Swag in the reply saying today's space has become a therapy for me. Thanks a lot of people in the comments yeah we have swag in the reply saying
today's space has become a therapy for me
thanks a lot guys experience teaches more
and yeah
we have Matthew saying listening to you guys
it makes me feel better about my mistakes
shit is like therapy sometimes
you get lost and you feel like you're fucking up big time
but it's just a part of the process
amen to that Matthew
truth
well guys big time, but it's just a part of the process. Amen to that, Matthew. Truth.
Well, guys,
to all of our listeners, if you want to see Kane coming back on the show,
go give him a follow, harass
him in DMs,
and maybe we'll
make it happen.
But yeah,
Kane, shout out to you, my man.
Love you. Love you too, Dabson. but yeah um gain shout out to you my man um love you
and is there anything else you want to add before we kind of start wrapping things up
no really i hope it was helpful to everybody i just i've always enjoyed talking trading and i've
i've really i'm a huge proponent of being overly honest
about the situation
like yeah
hopefully it did put stuff into context
for some of you guys
hope it helped man honestly
I'm sure it does
I'm sure it did
I mean dude
we have so many comments right now
people saying
well this feels like a therapy session
so thanks
this is awesome dude yeah love you i'll dm you later on and uh
we'll try to schedule something up yeah just like that last phone call maybe
the last time you said i'm gonna call you tomorrow it was three months
dude yeah gotta keep forgetting because we're talking about these things on a weekend and i'm
like i don't have anything.
I know.
You know, I know.
Yeah, I know.
I don't even remember my schedule and I did call you.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you. We're in my schedule.
Oh, lucky me.
All right, brother.
I love you.
Yeah.
Talk to you later, brother.
But yeah, guys, if you don't follow Kane, make sure to give him a follow.
I really do feel like he's one of the,
honestly, one of the most experienced people on CD.
Definitely is under-followed, under-appreciated.
A lot of amazing tweets.
And is one of the few people that I really am just happy to talk to
on whenever I can.
And we just chat up on our own time because it's just for me
it's so fun to talk time so yeah make sure to give him a follow and uh maybe we'll get him on
to have a full-on episode about him um and with unfortunately gn uh couldn't make it um due to
some uh extra work that he had to do um but yeah, we'll reschedule with GN as well.
We'll have him on as well,
which will be really, really fun.
So yeah, Cain, again, thanks for coming, mate.
And thanks to all of our audience,
our precious audience.
Thank you for coming.
This wouldn't be the same without you.
And yeah, make sure to follow me
and follow the Kuma account more importantly for regular updates
on all of our episodes and on our schedules we have an episode every single week but the time
changes sometimes the day changes so if you want to keep up with that make sure to give kuma a follow
and yeah notes will be available on monday usual, as always. And the recording of this episode will be available once this episode ends.
So you can check that out if you missed on anything, if you joined in the middle,
if you just want to hear Kane's voice again, you can do that as well.
And one last thing.
Huge thanks to Kuma for making these spaces happen.
They're huge support.
And yeah, it's really awesome to do this with them.
Now live on Baruchain.
You can trade with up to 50th leverage.
And if you haven't given Kuma a try yet,
you have to.
You have to give it a shot
because we're giving out 1,000 BGT every single day,
which is around 20,000.
It's almost over $20,000 a week, if I'm not mistaken. And all I have to do is trade. 000 it's almost over 20 000 a week if i'm not mistaken
and all i have to do is trade so if you want to give it a shot get some of that 20 000 weekly
pool um all you have to do is click on my profile there's a referral link in my bio it gives you 25
off of fees i don't even make any money off of it it all goes back to you guys and you can give that a try on top of that we have a weekly raffle of uh 1200 in biggie um the more trading volume you do
the more raffle tickets you get and every all you need is a hundred dollars in volume to get a ticket
so um so yeah go ahead and give it a try maybe you'll be one of our winners and the team the kuma team just dropped the kuma
academy we spoke about that last week as well um all the basics that you need to understand about
the defi tech and just about trading overall news trading we have a news trading article from nexus
himself um who turned i think it was like three thousand dollars to over ten million dollars at
this point um and we have a bunch of other articles just talking about DeFi and trading overall.
And we have five new articles dropping every single week.
So make sure to check out the Kuma Academy.
It is now live.
And next week, we have an episode of Bears Are Bidding.
It's returning for the second episode with a new host, OX Fence, who's a Chad.
He's going to make those spaces so, so, so much fun.
And if you are active in the bear chain ecosystem,
and if you are active in just DeFi overall,
it's a really cool show to listen to.
So make sure to turn into that space.
The Bears Are Bidding episode two coming out next week. Do not miss that space. The Bears are bidding episode two
coming out next week.
Do not miss that out.
And also there's rumors
about a trading competition coming up.
So yeah, if you don't want to miss out
on any stuff that might come anytime soon,
make sure to give Kuma a follow.
And yeah, that's pretty much it, guys.
Thanks a lot for coming for another surprising episode with Kane,
my lovely baby homie that I love so much for helping us make this episode,
not just a 15-minute catch-up episode because our guests couldn't make it.
And yeah, give us a follow.
Give Kuma a follow to make sure and stay in tune.
Maybe we'll have next month a Cain episode,
a full-on Cain episode.
That would be fun.
That's pretty much it, guys.
Thanks a lot for coming.
And see you guys next week or the week after.
Bye-bye.
