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SwarmTalks #16– From Data to Decisions: Building Smarter Web3 Systems.
Recorded: Sept. 30, 2025 Duration: 1:10:54Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion on the future of Web3, speakers highlighted the upcoming token launch by Crane AI, the pivotal role of stablecoin legislation in driving mass adoption, and the increasing integration of AI in managing crypto portfolios. The conversation underscored trends in user adoption, growth opportunities in the DeFi space, and the importance of partnerships in fostering innovation.
Full Transcription
. Thank you. Thank you. . Thank you. hello hello hello everyone welcome to our bi-weekly swarm talks where we discuss everything related to web 3 ai and all the
good and interesting things today we have a lot of amazing speakers uh guests that we would love to
uh hear from uh a bit later on today uh dig into their brains and get that alpha about uh what
they're building how they're building it and uh all the very interesting stuff but before we get started i'd like to ask you all uh to help out with this uh space by dropping a like pressing the bottom
right corner uh to reply or even retweet or quote retweet would mean a lot to us uh today behind
the rivals um logo is alex i'm the cmo and also have Matt, our amazing CBDO, who will also be helping out today in the discussion.
Loving all the emojis, loving all the energy. Let's keep it that way. Let's go. Let's get started.
So the topic of discussion today is everything from data to decisions and how to build smarter web 3 systems right so before we
get started in the discussion because uh let me tell you it's going to be a very interesting one
i'd like to uh give a brief round of introductions to each project to introduce themselves and share
a bit with us about what the project is about who's's behind the logo today, and what you guys are building.
I'll name as I see it.
So the first on my personal list right now is Ontology.
Ontology, very happy to have you guys join us today.
How are you doing?
And please share a bit about what you are building.
Hey, yeah, thanks for having me.
And thanks for putting me first.
I always like that.
Uh, Jeff, head of community at Ontology.
Um, we have been in the space for seven, just over seven years, um, building out
decentralized identity, decentralized data and decentralized reputation.
So, uh, I'm very interested in zero knowledge proofs as part of that as well.
So lots of privacy focus, lots of identity focus.
Love being here.
Looking forward to the conversation.
Beautiful, beautiful.
Thanks for sharing.
Same here.
Waiting for the conversation to happen as well.
Let's head over to Dex Protocol.
How are you guys doing?
Welcome, welcome.
Hey, love the energy here.
Really awesome to be here my name is mr fantastic
i'm a marketing manager from dexy protocol we are one of the largest dows on bnb chain and
we build tools that make web pre-governance simple and practical the community decides the rules and
then automation makes sure that those rules are carried out exactly as agreed.
And that's how we kind of intersect with agents,
with the agent economy, because we provide the structure so agents can execute tasks efficiently,
but always within transparent and community approved frameworks.
So pleasure to be here. Pleasure.
Just looking forward to the conversation.
We have a really good stack panel today.
Oh, definitely, I agree with you.
Well, welcome, Mr. Fantastic.
Love the intro.
Let's head over to Crane AI.
We had a bit of issues getting guys up on stage, but should be very well now.
Welcome, welcome.
And please share a bit about Crane AI with the audience.
Hey, thanks. Happy to be here. Appreciate you guys having this and inviting us to be on.
So my name is Jared. I'm one of the founders at Crane. We're building an infrastructure to fuel
the AI economy. So it starts with an AI discovery layer to help people find these apps, find these AI agents and understand, rate, review, build community around it.
And then we're also launching a token launch system a little bit later this year and planning for our TGE right now.
So lots going on. It's very exciting.
We're getting really close to releasing our marketplace.
And yeah, just plugging away, man, pushing hard.
Excited to be here.
Been a partner with Rivals for quite a while now.
So we're excited to join them.
Love it, love it.
Do you know the dates of the TGE
or is that still
a secret for the audience? Still, still secret. We're still trying to put, uh, put it, put an
actual date on it. You know, um, it's, it's a little bit of a moving target, you know, just
with the state of the market right now. And, uh, you know, especially with this little, I call it like slump timber, you know, September
slump here, you know. So yeah, short answer is I can't reveal a date yet, but we're, we're
pushing for, I'll say ASAP, right? So we want it to happen. We're pushing with all of our partners and advisors and stuff.
Love it.
Well, it's one of the best times to TGE probably, right?
Much better than if you were to do it in the summer or even before that.
In my opinion, personally, Q4 is a beautiful time to TGE if a project has not done so
and is looking forward to better market
conditions etc etc so okay all eyes on crane then we'll be looking forward to
that TGE guys and wish you tons of luck that's for sure that's for sure I'm gonna
ask for sure or a chain I'm very happy to have you guys on here as well. Welcome, welcome. Please share a bit about Orichain with the audience.
GM, GM everyone, I'm James.
I am the head of BD for Orichain.
Currently, we are focusing on AI.
We have so many private products on our ecosystem for now.
One of them is DCS.io io which will be a web3 deep
research ai uh platform where you can you know like search up for anything you you know like maybe
from the simple task like you can ask it to crawling all the big news from the market so you
don't have to you know do your own research every day or even like asking for suggestion for your financial advice.
For sure. But, you know, you make your own decision after that.
We don't be responsible for that.
But yeah, we simply do everything about AI.
I have been also a part of Rival for a long time.
I'm happy to be here to talk with you guys and sharing about
anything uh you know like origin is doing right now what is the market from ai i personally i
personally just come back from korean blockchain week there are so many like interesting story and
insight that i love to share today so happy to be here with you guys today. Beautiful. Well, I hope you had a great time in Korea.
We had a few other team members also going there.
Asia is cooking right now with token 2049 and stuff like that.
I even have a little bit of FOMO myself.
Probably won't be skipping it next year.
But that's what I said last year.
So let's see how it goes anyways we also have a path pulse up here on the speaker panel mmm super
happy to have you guys on please share with the audience and other speakers as
well what the project is about and what you guys are building and who's obviously
behind the logo. Welcome
Sirs hello path pulse happens. Hello. Hello
Okay, okay Yeah, it is what is
Then I guess
We're getting far and engagement farm. Okay, um, let's send it over to our last but not least
my favorite CBD oh Matt Matt please share with the audience a bit about rivals our plans goals
achievements I anything you feel like sharing definitely definitely Thank you all. All right. So yeah, I'm Matt. I'm CBDO at Rivals.
And basically what we always aim to do at Rivals was to become a world abstraction layer for AI
in a sense that we want to bridge any difficulty between AI, between users, between resources,
and stuff like that. Basically becoming a bridge between all these
uh components on ai and for that we've been building quite a lot of a lot of products lately
um we have an ecs which is our on-chain oracles um it's yeah there's going to be like a big update
soon on on that because we are um building something cool there, updating some infrastructure.
So yeah, there are going to be good news soon enough on ADCS.
We have RON, which is our adverse resource orchestrator.
Right now it has a couple of agents that can manage small portfolios.
Currently like fixed tokens, you have serial agents that hold several
tokens and stake it around and you you get a py we're about to launch our second version uh that
basically uh will manage usd across different uh pools soon enough chains um so yeah we are
kind of heavily focusing on defii right now um a lot coming on that sense um so yeah, we are kind of heavily focusing on DeFi AI right now.
A lot coming on that sense.
So yeah, and we also have a strong Web2 arm where we are building AI SaaS solutions for Web2 companies.
But everything being slow there, as I've been always saying, Web2 is really slow.
Nothing to compare with Web 3.
But yeah, we're building quite a lot there.
Beautiful, beautiful.
Well, if I wasn't working for Rivals, I'd be excited to hear what you guys are building.
Because yeah, Rivals on top, building some very exciting things.
Stay tuned for all the alpha that's coming very, very shortly.
But yeah, let's jump into the topic of discussion. In my opinion. We have some very interesting questions and things to discuss today. So
What do you guys think feels like the most important change happening in web 3 right now? And how might it shape the next cycle? It's an open format. So feel free to just jump in don't even need to raise any hands and
Feel free to share Yeah, I'll jump in. I don't even need to raise any hands and feel free to share.
Yeah, I'll jump in on this one. I think you probably could say like three or four different things, but the top of my mind is the stable coin legislation that's been passed in the US.
And I really think that's going to have dramatic impacts. I mean, I guess you could go a layer higher than that and just say the U.S. government's pivoting of a position, you know, in its position on crypto.
Obviously, the SEC and the former administration was terrible, I guess we could all say.
And then, you know, just the shift in the new administration
has made massive differences, but specifically this stablecoin legislation, I think is going to
drive mass adoption. And I think we're going to start seeing, you know, this is what I thought
was going to happen in the last bull run. And then it didn't. But, you know, like, I think you're going to open up your banking app.
And, you know, now where you see, you know, U.S. dollars, you know, maybe you see euros, maybe you see, you know, yen or something like that.
Then you're also going to see, you know, crypto.
You'll see, you know, I think they're going to show like a group number of all coins, USD stable coins, euro stable coins and stuff like that.
And then drill down there, you'll see all that.
But that's going to increase commerce, right?
And it's going to make it so that you can start actually using crypto on a day-to-day basis in a way that I think is comfortable for normies,
in a way that I think is comfortable for normies,
which has to be in some kind of way
with stable, like lack of fluctuation in value.
Can I jump in straight away there if we go in open form?
I guess I think that's absolutely nailed it, right?
Stable coins is everything for the next cycle,
for this cycle, for the next cycle.
It's gonna dictate everything.
One of the things I can see absolutely dictating as well
is an area of regulation and compliance,
which is going to be really pushed across projects,
because the second you start having mass adoption,
bringing big industry in, bringing big investors in,
the regulators are going to look really closely at everything.
And that's going to
set up a load of challenges in Web3 because obviously by nature, by our very personalities,
we like to push back a little bit against that. We don't want too much regulation. We don't want
too many people coming in. And I think the next cycle, we'll see solutions for how Web3 can be
compliant and yet private, how we can bring in AI to deal with
stable coins. We had the rivals guys saying, doing things with USDC, doing things with stables and
DeFi AI, we need a better name still, and doing all those things. There will be some compliance
questions coming down the line on that. What we need to do as an industry is get ahead of that and solve those problems before they're done to us. We should lead that conversation.
anti-legislation, anti-regulation is good.
But at some point for mass market adoption and for the system to really grow,
you know, as a whole, crypto as a whole, you have to have some guardrails set up.
Right. So we I think the challenge there is how do we how do we put those guardrails in place,
but still leave it a permissionless system?
Right.
Because this is, you know, one of the things that I love about crypto is that it democratizes access to financial tools and systems, you know, across the board.
Right.
So, you know, this is one of my sort of core things I love about crypto is that if I want
to take out a loan, I just go and take it out.
If I want to open a new account,
I click a button and I open a new account. I don't need to present all this information and
all that kind of stuff. So I think the crypto of the future is going to be a hybrid, right?
You're going to have sort of the more regulated corners of it. And then you're still going to
have like your privacy tokens and stuff like
that. Right. And hopefully there's some kind of harmonious, uh,
nature between the two that allows them to coexist in a way that still gives
us, uh, you know, that, that permissionless nature without, you know,
too much of the heavy handed regulation. I'm going to, you know,
stop and prevent you from doing anything if I want by the push of a button type thing.
Yeah, I'll be quick on this.
Oh, yeah, go ahead.
Sorry, I'll be quick on this just to say, look, I think that's the question.
I think that you just heard the question right there that we'll be asking for the next year.
How do we have the guardrails?
How do we have the regulation?
And I agree that we we we will
need to have mass adoption how do we have that whilst keeping it so people can have access to
different things have some privacy and we don't stop innovation they'll be the questions i think
we'll be fighting for the next year not fighting but trying to figure out for the next year i think
absolutely i agree definitely so i i wanted to add because i live in
a country where um usdt and uscc is widely widely adopted right we even have like vintage that
provide cards uh where you can have your usd there and pay with it right for like the last five years
or or even more um and so some part of it uh i'm already regulating here um it's argentina by the
way i don't know guys if you're coming to as the if there's any anytime soon but yeah um thing is
that in here you have like two different layers right in here the informal market the i wouldn't
say black market but it's really. Everyone has their dollar under their mattress and stuff like that.
And same happens with crypto.
Like we have people that actually go and change,
fully on change to avoid regulations here in Argentina.
And we have some others that go with all this vintage
that are really popular here in Argentina,
where you have Visa and MasterCard working with them,
where you can have your USDT and it's completely transparent on the regulation side.
And I think that's kind of the key to adoption in a lot of senses.
Like someone said at the very beginning,
we already are seeing banks here implementing crypto
in the sense that you can buy some dollar you can buy some
euro and you can buy USDT there's a lot of barriers still because you cannot move those
USDT you can only buy them as an investment USDT Ethereum BTC as well but soon, you will be able to at least transfer those assets.
And probably whatever you get on banks or on the regulated space, you will have to keep it on that part.
You will have to keep it on the regulated space, on the traditional market.
And then wherever you have on chain, that's going to be the most difficult part to actually regulate.
on chain, that's going to be the most difficult part to actually regulate.
Because how do you demonstrate certain wallets is not yours or it is yours?
How do you demonstrate a lot of other stuff that is anonymous on chain?
Even though you can see all the transactions, you have traceability and stuff like that,
it's fairly anonymous, right?
So I think that there will always be a corner in blockchain that um will avoid
regulations or won't be able to be regulated but um in the future a lot more of regulations
on the bank side is going to be accepted and that will become more like a mass adoption adoption
in here argentina was basically a way to escape from from the government and now it's like uh
an everyday thing that everyone can have and it's regulated as well yeah
well i can only i can only agree uh this whole uh convo uh is is a plasma coded huh um bank done
the bankless and stuff like that i i definitely can only agree with you guys This is also on my mind as like probably the most important change happening this cycle for
cryptocurrency as an asset class in general because
the more the more regulations and legal
things happening going on the more green light we get from the US government the
Things happening going on the more green light we get from the US
easier it is to onboard the actual big money right so currently or I mean not
currently but last cycle let's say it was a lot more friction and sometimes
close to impossible for the institutions to actually deposit their capital into
the crypto market whether it's you, whatever they're buying, right?
And the more clean and clear regulations we get,
the higher possibilities and just less frictionless opportunity
for the big money to actually flow into Web3.
So, and I agree completely on this stablecoin front as well. opportunity for the big money to actually flow into Web3.
So, and I agree completely on this stable coin front as well,
that it does seem like we are hitting this point where it's becoming more and more obvious for a lot of, not first world countries, sorry, for all world countries, whether it's the US for them to, for the big companies to invest in, or whether it's a smaller country like Mab's living in, right, where the actual retail users require stable coins for multiple reasons, whether their currency is debasing and they're losing a ton of purchasing power
by holding their native currency or whether they want to save,
whether they want to transact with the world, basically.
And more and more we see people requiring the use of stablecoins. So the less friction they get for transacting fiat to stables and vice versa,
the higher the adoption curve we're going to see, in my opinion.
Definitely. And just to add, I definitely agree with all the arguments about regulations.
And the thing with regulations is
this is speeding up so fast
that we cannot really fathom the speed of...
Because, you know, we thought ETFs were going to make it.
Then, like, Trump releases its coin.
But then shit goes, you know, it gets really serious, right?
And right now, 1% of all dollars tokenized.
But what if, what's going to be the speed?
What's going to be the push from the biggest countries,
from the biggest money machines?
We might see the entire, the next cycle,
we might see anything on chain.
We might see everything on chain.
Like, the thing that also made me think
that is currently happening,
that's going to shape most definitely, is AGI.
But after today's news that OpenAI
are making their real AI slop app
as an infinite TikTok.
Like, I figured out that maybe AGI is not that close,
but there could be a vast impact socioeconomical
from appearing from an intelligent system
that can substitute
any human being you know but we can only speculate about it but it definitely can
shift or shape the next cycle so excited to for sure for sure uh well that one is
gonna take a bit longer to uh transform into a possibility on a reality but yeah
it's gonna be really interesting to see
how uh this all plays out uh but definitely well as as you said things are moving fast
but for those uh who are actually like every day in crypto it doesn't feel like fast right it's uh
only retrospective when you look at the things and the advancements that were done uh throughout
these years throughout the bear market even right um you're you're looking at the things and the advancements that were done throughout these years, throughout the bear market even, right? You're,
you're looking at the thing and the,
the cycle is absolutely different in terms of institutional adoption,
in terms of regulation,
in terms of even people looking at crypto as an alternative asset class where
potentially last cycle they were looking at it as just a speculation,
something that you can just like either lose or make a lot of money on and move on well now well
let's see let's see how it plays out maybe we will see that Bitcoin global
standard after all that would be pretty cool to see I know the USA moving all
to Bitcoin let us oh geez just pray and pray and see how the world goes on chain.
It's definitely, we're definitely in a very interesting time.
Probably one of the most interesting times that crypto has ever seen in terms of the path to mass adoption.
So we're very close, we're on the verge of it but not
yet not yet you know so we will be the ones experiencing the euphoria stage
when everyone in there and their grandma calls you to because they know that
you're in crypto trying to you know get their fiat onboarded and maybe jump into
maybe jump into like the
like
sorry i broke up there right now um all good could you guys could you guys hear me yeah yes
sorry i don't know what happened uh anyways uh let's jump on to the next question it's also very
interesting um uh so looking ahead let's uh fantasize a bit. What role could AI and automation play
in making Web3 more useful and accessible for everyone?
I'd love to hear your thoughts
because there's quite a lot of things to speculate on.
If I may start, I think that AI and automation
is exactly what's going to transform Web3
into the actual backbone of the internet.
Because, well, for now,
people are still met with a lot of friction.
Even though you need to know much less
than four years ago to be a regular user,
you still have to figure out what's wallet, what's gas.
You know, but I i mean even right now
but a few years from now we will definitely see you're just you know want to make a swap and the
agent quietly routes it across multiple chains anything and just to provide you with the best
price through the bridges that have the biggest liquidity and you never think about it and uh if from since i'm
i'm representing dexie we we see we've seen like firsthand how much friction is removed if something
is automated if if proposals execute automatically it like when the rewards to the DAO stakers, to the DAO voters are distributed without manual effort.
People participate more.
It feels more natural and doesn't feel like a second job.
So the overall, to close my thought, I think that AI and automation can bring the, can reduce the quote unquote hidden tax of crypto complexity.
Definitely. I think what you're saying is basically what we've been discussing for the
last few years here in crypto is account abstraction, right? Account abstraction is
something that is very much needed for the regular user, right? And I think AI will play like a huge role on that.
We already seen it, as you said.
And I think it's going to reach a lot of people.
Like it's going to be really easy, fairly easy to deposit something on your agent
and your agent manages for you or something like that, right?
In that sense.
So yeah, basically, I think account abstraction is going to be like a major development on
the intersection of AI and crypto.
Yeah, I think that AI question goes even further as well.
I mean, a couple of things.
One, I couldn't agree more.
Complexity is the killer for mass adoption.
Unfortunately for us, Web3 is built by nerds and it's used by nerds, which means everybody
else finds it very difficult, which is a problem. And so AI can make that easier because it automates
things. It goes away. You can use human language. You can do all those things and it can do all that
stuff. Somebody also mentioned the idea of more things coming on chain, more tokenizations,
more things existing on the blockchain. Actually, that plays right into AI as well.
So think about what you can get AI to do for you.
Take out a loan and prove who you are.
Verify your identity for something.
Prove your qualifications.
Apply for a job.
Provide your CV for that job.
All these different things that become so easy with more things on chain.
And then you start adding zero knowledge into there so you can
maintain privacy you add something like zktls which allows you to go off chain to check things
and off chain to validate data without giving away too much information and all of a sudden
we've got ai pulling the strings in people's lives in a really useful way not in some dystopian manner, but in a way that actually
starts giving people back time and control.
And I think something we maybe don't talk enough about actually increases security as
well.
Probably the biggest risk people have in blockchain is themselves.
And so actually, if we start bringing in AI for some of those controls, we've got the
potential to start reducing that risk as well.
So I think there's so much that actually just improves
as we start bringing more on chain
and we have AI building on that.
I personally think we'll end up having to do something
like know my agent, similar to know my customer,
to know your customer,
because I think agents and AI bots
agents and AI bots will just become that important.
will just become that important.
Yeah, I really like the potential upcoming around the financial side of it.
Just financial tools and automations and stuff like that.
I feel like there's, I don't know, it just seems like even today,
there's so much just basic stuff that AI could be doing to sort of automate, you know, where am I getting the best yield at?
How do I know my, like, this is like, I feel like this problem has been around forever.
And I don't know why no one solved it yet.
You know, maybe one of us needs to start a company to solve it.
But like, how many of us have like all these assets
are spread all over the place,
NFTs, tokens, cross chains, all this stuff.
And I just wanna know,
is my overall portfolio up or down today?
And like, it's just, it's sort of annoying
that at a very basic level,
we still don't have the ability to do that.
I guess there are, somebody's gonna tell me I'm wrong.
I know it, you're gonna, I'll just accept it right now.
You're gonna tell me I'm wrong
and you're gonna tell me three tools that do it right now.
But you know what, here's my retort to that.
Those tools haven't gone mainstream.
Obviously they're not good enough
because not everyone's using them in a massive way.
You know, I mean, as soon as one of those tools they're not good enough because not everyone's using them in a massive way.
You know, I mean, as soon as one of those tools becomes like almost like a Google level across the board, then we can say the problem is solved.
But until then, it's still not solved.
Right.
And then, you know, things like how do I where do I where am I getting the best yield at?
Right.
Like, why do I have to do like all this deep level research to understand, you know, who, where, where do, where do I get the best yield at?
Yes, you can go to like DeFi Llama or something like that.
You can see these lists and stuff like that of, you know, providing yield and stuff like that.
But nothing like ranks them, right?
Nothing tells me like how safe are these, you know, has there, you know, is there like subtle rug going on in these things?
Right. I mean, this is kind of like, you know, we're trying to solve the issue at Crane around this for like agents.
Right. Like, where do I go to see a list of all the agents?
Where do I go to see the most recent ones?
Like, how do I how do I know if they're good or not?
Right. How do I know to see the most recent ones? Like, how do I know if they're good or not, right?
How do I know who's used it, right?
You know, you see it and you're like, you know, oh, that one looks really cool, but I don't know if there is it safe.
Is it to people, what's people's experience with it? So like our aim, just my like subtle little 10 second, five second plug for Crane is, you know, we're aiming to build sort of like the
Amazon reviews of AI apps and agents, right? Like someplace you can go and reliably, like,
I'm going to buy something somewhere else. But, you know, oftentimes before I buy it,
I'm going to Amazon, I'm searching and looking to see like, hey, what are other people even using
this for? Right? There's a, there's a giant treasure trove of info in Amazon reviews, right?
And so we're hoping to achieve the same thing in Ukraine, but hopefully AI can automate
some of this financial movement of assets, analyzation of assets.
I feel like there's like a basic level of tools that I think more people would get into
crypto if they had some of these tools available to them.
Wow, you guys are dropping absolutely
alpha and um i can only completely agree with a lot of things being said here uh but speaking of
which i want to jump a few questions to the one that is like perfectly related to our current
topic of discussion about know your agent the security and safety of it all uh what do you
guys think should agents have their own identities and reputations
or should they remain invisible helpers
behind the human users
and do the work behind their back kind of thing?
So what do you guys think?
Should there be a transparent way
to identify the agent's reputation,
the transparent kind of tracking
of it all, or have it work in the background?
Yeah.
Yes.
The answer is yes to both of those.
So we need both of those.
We really do, right?
You need, I love the concept of like, know your agent. Maybe that's a service that
crane needs to launch alongside of our discovery tool. And, you know, that we're building, but
as agents and as AI gets more autonomous, know your agent becomes more and more important and
almost required, right? Because this simply, just the things you can
think of at the top of your head, right? So as soon as agents get more autonomous, they start
doing more for you. You're going to get more agents that are interacting with you personally,
right? So they're approaching you, they're sending you emails, they're prompting you to do things and
stuff like that. So how do you know that you're talking to an
agent this is is this a real agent from your bank is this a real agent from your child's school
you know like and and so you we have to someone has to build that layer uh because it's it's going
to become massive problem i mean you are you already see people exploiting ai to like from a ransomware
perspective and stuff like that and so uh it's essential absolutely essential someone's got to
build this definitely i think that uh just a quick one here um basically we find we found a lot of stuff where agents or ai can complement crypto and this topic is actually
um some stuff that crypto can complement agents with proof of inference or proof of basically you
can build a a an on-chain identity for for the agents this is something that we are actually
exploring uh with our own chain we we never finally launch
it because we in in the middle of the development uh we we think of this we thought of this sorry
um yeah basically we're going to start posting proof of inference and proof of uh transactions
and stuff like that where you will be able to audit agents and the steps they do uh on our own
chain right and i think that's something that is going to
start popping up around a lot more because there are already a few doing it and the next step
basically some identity that you can verify on chain I think that yeah basically blockchain has
a lot to provide here in this matter yeah I just say'll just say, not only do we need it,
not only would it be good,
but I think we will have to have it legally.
Just the legal implications of having agents do things
on our behalf, whatever that is,
we'll actually insist that they have some sort of identity.
Beyond that, for people to choose
an agent in a sensible, helpful, useful way, they will need to have a reputation. They'll be doing
the things we do, which means they will be regulated and they will need the things that
we need. And that's identity and reputation. Just as quick on the fly business development as I go,
look, we've got out-of-the-box solutions
for identity and reputation.
I'd love to speak to anybody
who's trying to implement this on agents
because we've got the tech ready to go
with zero knowledge proofs as well.
So just hit me up with a message.
But it's absolutely essential for people.
Couldn't agree more.
Because if you rely,
let's imagine the situation where you rely on agents to make swaps,
participate in governance, or execute something.
You want to know that it has a history of being reliable.
An invisible agent, it might be convenient,
but it doesn't give you the confidence to trust it with important tasks.
If you have to use an agent to automate your on-chain activity,
which one would you use?
With a proven track record of executing thousands of swaps,
or the second one with zero, with no track record?
Well, I think the reputation creates trust.
And in decentralized systems, trust is literally everything.
But it goes much further than convenience.
Reputation, in my opinion, creates accountability.
Because if an agent consistently fails,
or if the community asks for an agent to do something and it does against its values,
the record should reflect that.
And this will allow communities to make informed decisions.
Do they just validate to DAO delegates or validators say, or they delegate to an agent.
So the reputation prevents agents from becoming black boxes
that operate without oversight.
So, yeah, the core problem is that we've written a few medium articles
about it, about regulations of AI agents and how we can organize it work.
But long story short, the argument is that the trust and the reputation, they cannot be bolted on later.
They have to be built into the system itself.
So in other words, the protocol should define how agents build credibility and
how their reputation can be verified because uh even though agents don't look like humans
they must absolutely carry transparent performance record attached to them
and that's that's what's in in my opinion going to make them uh
trustworthy and predictable and verifiable in an open and decentralized ecosystem
yeah
well pure alpha being dropped here today that's for sure we are coming to a to a common opinion
here right that's big things are happening but we need a little bit of more a little bit more
of everything to make it an actual reality right so? So with that, moving on to the next one, what do you guys think is missing in the current AI and web three conversation? Is it governance? Is it the user experience? Is it transparency, coordination, or something else on your mind that deserves more attention?
on your mind that deserves more attention.
That's a really tough one.
Did you see the silence then?
Everybody stopped.
Everyone's been jumping up and answering
first time all the time.
For me, my obvious answer is going to be
identity and reputation,
but we've just covered that.
So I'm going to back away from that a little bit.
And I'm going to be honest,
I'm going to separate from ontology.
I'm going to talk from my own personal perspective here. And for me, it's almost that central area
I can just go and I can look at a collection of agents or a collection of AI models or something.
I can understand what they do. I can trust them and I can do something with them.
If you've been in crypto for any period of time, your trust in anything you don't know
is so low.
I get messages from perfectly trustworthy people and I assume they're trying to scam
I look at a great protocol and I don't do anything with it until I've played with it
with some burner wallet and looked at something.
It's just the way it is, right? If I could go somewhere and I could look and think, that's good. People I know,
there's some sort of social graph maybe. So people I know, people I'm connected with have used it and
they're happy with it. Yeah, I'll go with that. I'd be more likely to use these tools. And I think for me, that's what we're currently missing,
some sort of element that allows me to trust
and know what these agents are doing
and that I'm happy to use them personally.
I think, judging by the silence, this is a difficult one to answer.
But I think, in order to answer this, I think to myself, what is the most annoying thing about crypto?
I mean, besides the volatility and the always around the corner alt season that we're currently experiencing,
corner alt season that we're currently experiencing.
I think that it's got to be this constant feeling like I'm always, and I know you guys
can relate to this, but people are always trying to scam me.
It's nonstop as a crypto.
I think it happens to everyday crypto people, of course, but like if you're in leadership
at any crypto related firm,
you are like super heavily targeted, right?
Especially if you're public with who you are and, you know,
and it's just incredibly annoying
because you're always trying to verify people.
You're always, even like three steps into a conversation with a team of people, you're always trying to verify people. Even like three steps into a conversation
with a team of people, you're like,
is this really the team?
I mean, I could probably tell you hours of stories
of different ways that people have tried to scam me,
my team, people on my team, and it's just annoying.
So if there was some way that AI and
Web3 could help that, I mean, I wish there was, the closest thing that we all have to like sort
of identity verification is like, hey, you know, DM me from the main public account on X, right?
And like, how dumb and annoying is that, right? So we rely on that and that being the most secure.
Like, it just seems like with all the technology and advancements and the progress that Web3 has made, and we still, the only thing we rely on is this sort of like dumb Web2 verification of like, send me a Twitter DM.
Like, what the heck?
It should be so much better than that
but that that's the thing i feel like is missing i know you mentioned from the conversation i feel
like this area is just something that we all just sort of put up with and and deal with um
but man if somebody could fix it i would be really happy i just got to jump in with some alpha from ontology here in that
we are on the verge of launching our chat rooms, our decentralized chat linked to decentralized
identity, linked to decentralized reputation, linked to being able to prove who you are via
things like your Binance account or various other accounts in a zero-knowledge way.
They won't fully solve this, not straight away,
but it will certainly make huge steps
towards solving this problem in that it becomes much easier
to verify who you're talking to,
that they are who they say they are.
Look, it's not gonna be the perfect solution
when we launch it, it will get better over time.
But I absolutely agree, it's really, really important.
Most definitely.
And in my personal opinion, that the missing part that we have right now that triggers me the most is the insufficient governance.
Just because, look at OpenAI.
Look at OpenAI.
They have what valuation?
500 billion?
Still a private company.
They report to no one.
Who do they report to? Whose interests
are they acting towards and upon, right? These are some private people behind closed doors that
we have nothing, that we know almost nothing about, right? And just think about AIs, AI agents doing something,
you empowering them to do something.
And let's say you become completely dependent
on your AI agents doing trades or managing your yield.
But everybody's getting excited about things that,
oh, this can be managed by an AI agent.
This can be managed by an AI agent. This can be managed by an AI agent.
But who decides the rules those agents operate under?
Like, who do they serve and who can hold them accountable?
These are big questions.
Because, and governance kind of answers them.
And governance kind of answers them.
So with the governance, we can align AI agents to do what people actually want.
And I think building DAOs was the primal free level to AI governance
because we already see that, you know, if community prospers when it has tools to define those rules,
to enforce those rules on chain and to keep the system transparent.
So that was my sense.
I think that governance is definitely something that we are yet to answer
because most of these systems are privately owned and mostly black boxes.
Well, I think I will put some word over here.
some word of here during my one week in Seoul of Korea I try to go to every you know site event
and conference talk to as much as possible I asked them the same question what do you think
about AI for web3 and the answer is always trust and performance.
So I asked them, why can't you trust ChatGPT, but not some AI agent made by Web3World?
They said that, well, you got the answer, the Web3World.
The things that everyone is trying to scam you on this
space.
That is the things you guys have always discussed for the whole thing, whole time in this space.
So I have nothing to give some, you know, like bonus points into that.
But that is also the beauty of Web33 because like everyone scam you the reason behind why everyone
trying to scam you because that is you are also looking for something beneficial you're looking
for something that can be you know like multiply 100 you know just one night so that is the reason
for why they are they can easily scam you.
But at the same time, as we see that everyone is searching for money over here,
this is the YYWs.
So if there is an AI gene that's standing out with outstanding performance,
then everyone will forget about trust and the performance itself is just.
That's why I talk to a lot of VC and they're still looking for a pivot, you know, like DeFi AI agent for now, which is really hard to achieve. But the easier way, not from the
But the easier way, not from the pop culture, like pop trade or maybe like searching MemeCoin, but controlling the portfolio, controlling the LP things, that will be the win over here.
So it comes to another thing related to the UX.
When that AI agent, you know, like that pioneer AI agent appear, what will be the next problem over here? I think it's about the education on how the user can properly take advantage of the AI
agent through asking questions through a lot of things.
I think a lot of people over here, we are doing AI agent, but I have my pain with, you know, like educating people on prompting.
That is the basic things when it comes to UI UX, but we keep forgetting that.
And for most of the time, people asking me like, why your platform does not work well?
But when I check, recheck the prompt, it's either too simple or, you know, like the context, there will be more of the, you know, educational things.
So lastly, I think performance is one of the things that a lot of PC and also the user will pay attention to.
user will pay attention to.
Before I go to the KBW, I think that AI agent is stepping into a really cold time right
now.
Not so many people pay attention to that.
But after talking to so many key players, I think we still have a lot of time and space
for now to develop all of that.
For sure, we need to improve the security, the trust,
the authenticity of the AI agent,
but also we should pay more focus on the performance.
So when the performance is going up,
it will attract a lot of attraction from the user
and also many other developers will come enjoy the game for Web3.ai.
And then we can think about like UX and, you know,
like teaching or educating how the user can take advantage of that.
So that is my point of view for this question.
Beautiful.
Well, we are short on time and I appreciate you guys sharing your very interesting takes.
That's for sure.
I've been learning a lot today.
Last one.
Just let's think of the next cycle, right?
We are seeing a lot of advancements this cycle already.
We're seeing obviously a lot of AI products coming into life.
People sort of kind of understand what the user wants.
But regardless, regardless, what do you guys think would be like the first everyday task
that a user would confidently hand to an AI agent probably next cycle, right?
So what do you think is like the core thing that can be delegated safely to the AI to help out with their day-to-day crypto trading activities?
Yeah. Hi. Am I audible this time?
Yep.
Okay. Lovely.
So, see, honestly, I believe this answer would, to some extent, hand in hand relate with security, safety, and governance, because I do believe at the end of the day, it is going to be the individual or the user's responsibility to make the final last step.
So for example, typically cryptos don't for swaps, bridging, DeFi, so on and so forth.
I still do believe AI is not at a capacity where it can directly make decisions for you,
where it has control over the funds of your wallet.
However, it could potentially alert you, provide you with strategies.
And if you have the risk tolerance tolerance even take up on some of those
trading strategies however when it comes to the day-to-day uh average joe most people do understand
i mean many scammers would certainly understand how ai functions so if an individual is able to
understand what are the exploits and how exactly one can fool the AI system,
it's obviously going to cause a lot of issues.
And somebody is going to have to be held responsible for a user losing their money.
And typically, it should be the user.
However, if there is an AI layer on the security side of things, and if it does mess up,
then, well, it's going to cause a lot
of issues and I think that is the main reason why even three four years into AI we haven't seen any
crazy important scam repellent AI solutions come out into the market because people understand
the technology well enough to mess around with it so So I feel, according to me, alert, yields, potentially trading strategies would be ideally
what would work for most users.
But let's see how much more people are able to trust in AI.
I want to see some Olympus DAO rebasing 10,000 billion APYs.
Like, I want to see some crazy agentic shenanigans going on
with maybe pump fund for agents.
Instead of you going for pump fund,
you say, you just give 100 bucks to your agents
or one Solana saying,
okay, now you go to trenches, you know?
Like, instead of us having to sit in
trenches we're gonna send a swarm of ai agents to be in trenches but those changes going to be
different i suppose the next cycle it can be literally anything wow for sure honestly um it's uh it's up for for speculation but as we mentioned right things are
advancing very very fast but we just sometimes don't even notice it i remember back in like the
the deep uh states of the bear market when you know even like the most bullish announcement that
would potentially like full send all crypto assets uh to the stratosphere during the bear market it's it's it felt like okay like another nothing burger you know oh um the u.s just literally said that we're gonna i don't know push bitcoin forever and ever okay no one cares right so uh slowly but surely we see like this and that happening and uh time flies uh a lot of advancements is happening in our in our space and it's right now
the things we potentially think could happen are will most likely be already solved that those
issues would already be like in the past kind of thing you know and maybe we already have literally
ai agents trading for you and doing everything you ever wished for. Like, you're just like, okay,
here's a hundred bucks, make me money, you know?
And my risk tolerance is high, go DJ on meme coins.
And it just literally just does it all for you. Who knows? Who knows?
We shall see. Um, I think in my opinion, uh,
The closest we've gone to actual, not native usage of AI, but very convenient is the research part. all over the internet from all sources to kind of come up with a crypto native answer for you to
the closest we've gone to like actual, um,
kind of get your get your info from so like if you're like what's the best yield right now on
this and that right and then you have the agent kind of do it all for you obviously my dream would
have would be to actually have that agent perform all the tasks for you that you have absolutely full trust in.
That's the most important part, right?
We already see such products right now, but the most important part is the trust.
So you're not going to full port into an agent and just pray it goes well, right?
right so you can hear you know right now you can kind of test it out give it a try but hopefully
So you can hear, you know, right now you can kind of test it out, give it a try.
in the near near future we will have that very very strong foundation of agents an ability to
verify know your agent as we discussed today on the space? Have some kind of authenticity layer for those agents sometimes so that we have more security
as the end user.
That's kind of my thing.
So hopefully next cycle,
we see literally a money printer thing,
machine going on for us
and just having idle capital
would be the thing
that would actually make you money, right?
That would be amazing.
Let's hope that. That's a dream that that's a dream that's a dream agent doc one are is going to launch his algorithmic
agentic terra luna agent and is going to rug everyone that's gonna be the spirit
so this is the thing right if anybody's been in crypto more than five years, you are absolutely a degen, which means
I guarantee the first thing everybody's doing with agents is yield farming.
Three figures, four figures, five figures.
Who knows how high that's going to go?
And people are going to get burnt and people are going to get hurt.
And some people are going to make millions.
But that is absolutely going to be the first thing we do because we are
who we are definitely well let's hope that the those making millions are actually making millions
for creating a solution for the customer right and not creating a solution to make money off the customer, like,
like we've seen with Luna and FTX and you name it. Okay. Okay. I mean, I just want to say thank
you very much guys for this absolutely amazing space. The speakers today are just, you guys are,
you know, you're legends. You know, when a space flows natively and you just have like a lot of
things to discuss, right? And you don't have to like pull the info out of people and, you know when a space flows and natively and you just have like a lot of things to discuss right
and you don't have to like pull the info out of people and you know like point fingers oh what
do you think anyways before we wrap it up let's give a final opportunity for each one of you guys
to kind of give a bit more info about the project what what should the audience be looking forward to, or how to potentially participate in your upcoming campaigns.
So I have Dex Protocol, first one on my speaker panel.
I want to give it over to you.
Oh, yeah, thank you.
As a closing words, just wanted to say that at the end of the day, guys,
governance is power because, yeah, with no governance, there is no trust.
And at Dexy, we make sure that power stays within the community.
So thank you guys very much for the space.
My alpha meter is at like 6 out of 10, so pretty good.
And yeah, just overall, I wish you all the productive end of the week
beautiful thank you very much for joining um ontology your time has come yeah now that so
look we are literally trying to solve this identity and reputation we've been building
this for seven years we absolutely believe that the next stage of reputation and identity is going to be for
agents because agents are going to do everything we don't want to do if you're building that we have
solutions for it we can just help you plug that in it's cross-chain evm compatible all the stuff
you need it to be uh if you're just looking at look seeing what we do we we give away tokens we help you get started
with staking we help you get started with proof of humanity and identity and all those things just
say hello on telegram and somebody will help you out i really enjoyed this space one of the better
ones i've been on for quite a while actually so good job guys thank you very much it means a lot
thank you very much for joining uh it's a pleasure having Saj Chaz join us here today.
PathPulse, you guys had some connection issues,
but glad that you got them sorted towards the end.
Feel free to drop some alpha.
Absolutely. So, yeah, I was unable to tell precisely what we do.
So we basically just let every single citizen individual use their smartphone, record public road footage and capture violations and road infrastructure issues.
This information is then provided to private companies as well as government agencies.
And it's speaking and finalizing conversations with around 13 nations right now, South America, Middle East, Asia as well.
It's a fairly large market,
and we basically wanted to give people back to power
when it comes to violation protections.
It's to some extent where governments use
hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money
to technically surveil the people themselves.
So we've got some crazy upcoming announcements
in the next couple of weeks.
The expected value that we're bringing into these Uber,
Grab, Lyft drivers, et cetera, it's going to be immense.
And yeah, I do appreciate it.
It was a great one.
You learned quite a bit.
I'm looking forward to the next one.
Thank you so much for joining.
All right, Shane.
Your turn.
All right, guys.
Thank you for having us today to talk about AI.
And a lot of topics have been discussed.
A lot of things we have shared.
A lot of, you know, like alpha over here.
I think I will
have to listen to it again and take note all the information we're just sharing today.
By the way, we are developing the product.
That is exactly what you guys are looking for.
You know, just promise and you will know which kind of deal, which kind of, you know,
like most attractive deal that you are missing out today with the Web3 work.
This is .io and you guys can always try to, you know, like to try it out.
I swear to God is one of the best thing we have ever viewed since the day one.
And yeah, so that is.
And of course, for all the, you know, like, speaker over here today, I'm really appreciated
and amazed by, you know, like how advanced you guys are thinking
for the vision of AI in the web 3 work.
And I would love to, you know, like, get a talk with you guys
to see if we can host some other AMI on the right channel also
and invite everyone over here.
So, yeah, that is.
Thank you very much. crane ai i appreciate your takes today hey no problem uh thank you to the
rivals crew for hosting us uh and all the other speakers um you guys are top notch top quality
uh and and really have an amazing team.
I really do.
So thanks for having us.
Really excited to be here.
Crane's got some really amazing stuff coming up.
I mean, TG is going to be like, you know, really awesome.
We're really excited about that.
But stuff that we've been working on for months and months and months, we're like right on the verge of being done with. So we're really excited about that. But stuff that we've been working on for months and months and months,
we're like right on the verge of being done with. So we're really excited about that.
Releasing the marketplace. We really believe it's going to be a tool for just the mass market that
people are really going to love to be able to understand, discover new agents and what they do and how they can help and what their
reputation is and just, you know, create a dynamic community around that. So we're, we're excited
about that. Anybody who wants to collaborate with us or, you know, do an AMA or we are still have
our Genesis program running right now where we're partying with people,
giving them a free verified status in our marketplace that's coming up,
included for, for a certain period of time. So we got, it's,
it's really kind of a who's who of a web three and,
and even some web two agents and AI apps are in there.
So if you're building in that space,
definitely reach out to us and join that program.
We announce you, help to promote you.
And so really appreciate that.
Thanks guys for having us.
And we look forward to the next one.
Beautiful. It was a pleasure.
Well, last but not least,
let's wrap it up with Matt, our CBDO of Rivals.
Matt, please feel free to share any alpha that's coming
up to rivals shortly definitely first of all thank you all guys for being here was really a nice
space um yeah the rival size as i said as i mentioned they're going to come like a big
update on adcs our set of ai oracles. Another one on the agent side,
our second versions of
yield agents
where we are
going to try to excel there.
We have a really cool idea.
This is going to be like the second version
of many because there is
a lot on the roadmap.
So yeah, probably that's going to be launched
in the next couple of weeks
uh so stay tuned all right thank you everyone once again for joining not gonna waste any much
of your time thank you thank you for joining amazing space great speakers that's how we do it
wish you all the best wish you luck and if you were a listener feel free to follow every single
project up here
