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T-REX x Polygon: The Compliance Layer for Tokenized Securities
Recorded: April 7, 2026 Duration: 0:35:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
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Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Thank you. do
do I Oh Hello, everyone.
We will get started here in a little bit.
We are just getting all of the guests in here and then we will get this going. Just going to play a little bit of music before we get started. My anxiety's asking for a friend Well, someday, soon we feel better
Is that there's something right there from the back of the wedding?
I'll take your hands
Take your hands
Cause I've been thinking lately
I ain't got no time to sleep in
Hey, dreams, everything that I can ask for
Let's go, I know what's up about to ask for
Back up, I'm not too free Cause I've been thinking lately we clear that i can ask for that song all right everyone uh thanks everybody for joining um so before we get started, we're going to be interviewing T-Rex and going over the compliance layer for tokenized security.
So, as a reminder, T-Rex is a chain built on Polygon CDK, a multi-stack toolkit for launching bespoke ZK-powered layer 2 chains natively attached to the ag layer.
So, if you're interested in building your own chain, we will pin a form up to the top of the space if you are interested.
But why don't we just start off with some introductions. Why don't we start off with you,
Sandeep?
Oh, Sandeep, are you with us?
All right.
Well, we can go on over to Daniel.
How's it going, Daniel?
Hi there.
I'm very well, actually. I'm very excited to be on this podcast with you and keen to explain you all over the T-Rex.
Wonderful.
Do you want to just tell us a little bit about what you do over at T-Rex?
Yeah, absolutely.
So maybe some background here. So I'm the co-founder of Tokeny. I started Tokeny nine years ago with Luc Fanampin. We developed this ERC3643 framework that I will describe maybe in a bit more details in a couple of seconds. So this company was acquired by Apex last year. So the whole team transitioned
into Apex, driving the digital asset strategy. And for those who are not familiar with Apex,
Apex is the largest privately owned asset servicer in the world. They have around 13,000 people
operating in 52 countries, and they manage 3.5 trillion of assets for
6,000 clients for about 14,000 funds. So we would call in a whale in this
industry, right? So I transitioned to being a global head of digital assets for
Apex and now I co-founded T-Rex,
and I'm in charge of the business development of the project.
Wonderful.
Thank you for that.
All right, now we've got much science up here.
Thanks for joining.
You want to give an introduction?
Yes.
Hi, everyone.
Do you hear me well we can hear you okay uh yeah nice to meet
everyone here so i'm uh i'm joaquim uh i have been a chief blockchain officer at tokeny uh same as
daniel so i've been working at tokeny for the last eight years. I've been instrumental in building the ERC3643 token standard.
So for the ones who know it's the standard for real-world assets on Ethereum.
Also on-chain identity, so the identity system that goes together with CRC3643.
Know that Stokini has been acquired by the Apex Group.
I'm the head of blockchain at Apex,
and I'm also one of the co-founder of T-Rex.
Wonderful. Great to have you.
All right, let's see if we can get Sandeep back up here.
Otherwise, we will get started with some of the questions.
So first one for Daniel.
So what is T-Rex Ledger and what problem is it solving?
Thank you for that question.
So TRX Ledger is an EVM-based compliance and reconciliation chain that functions as the source of truth for real-world asset ownership
across a multi-chain environment.
The intention is not to compete with other chains such as Ethereum,
Polygon, or Avanage, of course, but to act as a synchronization layer to ensure consistency and audited ability across all of them.
So the problem it's solved is really structural, right?
Tokenized security today are being issued across multiple blockchain,
but each chain fragments the compliance logic, investor identity records and ownership registries.
So when the SEM bond or fund token exists on three chains, there's no single auto-toritative
cap table.
There's no share compliance engine and no unified registry.
So this creates regulatory exposure and obviously operational chaos for institutional participants.
and obviously operational chaos for institutional participants.
So that's really what the TRX ledger aims to resolve
by centralizing the compliance verification,
the identity validation through on-chain ID
and ownership reconciliation into a single reference chain.
So the connected blockchain become distribution channels,
settlement happens on external networks,
but every transfer routes through TRX Ledger for compliance checking.
So we leverage the ERC-3643 protocol, which I mentioned earlier, which has already been used for tokenizing over 32 billion in assets across more than 120 live deployments.
It enforces investors' eligibility at the smart contract level, and TRX Ledger makes that enforcement portable across every
connected chain.
Wonderful.
Thank you for that answer, Daniel.
Looks like, I think we got Sandeep again.
Sandeep, are you with us?
You might be having some
he's as a listener
so I think you need to get him on stage
yeah he might be having some technical difficulties
we'll go on to this next question
for you much science
so why does compliance break
when tokenized securities move across chains
yeah so that's a very good question compliance break when tokenized securities move across chains?
Yeah, so that's a very good question. The point is that compliance breaks when the securities move across chains for the very simple reason that ERC3643 and all these other
permission token standards have been built around smart contracts.
And so when all the data that you need to enforce these compliance rules, identity validation
and everything lies into the storage of smart contract on a given chain, this whole storage
cannot travel with the tokens. And if you are deploying on many different blockchains,
think of a single blockchain as a unified database
on which every data that exists on that chain
is accessible by any smart contract on that chain,
but the other chains don't have access to it.
It's completely blocked for them to access.
So the point is that when you breach these tokens,
usually the only thing that you breach
is the balance of a token.
And then you don't have access to everything else
that you would need to access in order to enforce compliance.
That's what we are solving with T-Rex.
So with T-Rex, all the compliance data and the identity validation and everything else
that is needed to enforce compliance exist on T-Rex ledger, which is a purpose-built chain with instant finality and everything that you need
to enforce seamless interaction with the other chains
in a cross-chain manner,
so that you issue your validation of compliance,
you perform the checks on the T-Rex chain,
and instantly you can use it on any other chain
to validate a transfer.
The alternative would be to reproduce everything on every chain, but you can
imagine that when you have like 10 or 20 chains in parallel running the same token, it's going to be impossible to get all this data to be sent every time
that you have a new transaction or a new
identity to validate or any of these information that you need to have in
order to enforce compliance to be broadcasted on all these chains in
parallel. So the idea of T-Rex is to be this central point where you have access
to all these data and you also synchronize after every transfer
so that transfer agents, asset managers, these kind of players who need to have a conciliated
view on their cap table, they just plug onto T-Rex and they have the full view on everything
that happens on every chain. Wonderful.
Thank you for that.
And also just for everybody in the audience,
if you would like to watch the full interview with T-Rex,
I posted it up to the top of the space if you want to check that out at the end of the space.
All right, so for this next question,
we'll go on over to Daniel.
So why was Polygon
CDK the right foundation for T-Rex ledger?
I guess that's more a question to my friend, Much Science, who is the technical expert,
if I may defer to him.
Yeah, I can answer to that. So we
have been actually working
with Polygon for
the last, I would
say, six, seven years.
It was still called Matic
when we started. We have
been having this
great relationship with Polygon
since the early days of Tocuni
and it was quite a natural fit to work with Polygon again
to push the T-Rex ledger project.
But yeah, the point is that the ag layer part,
which is basically the main difference that I see
between a CDK chain and like a classic OP stack layer 2.
So the Ag layer is very interesting because it allows us to bring this interconnectivity
between the networks that are connected to the Ag layer.
Right now, there are not that many yet,
but Polygon is a very interesting technology in general.
And you can see that, I think it's last week
that Bayes announced that they are joining as well,
AgLayer, and I think that a lot of different chains
are going to follow.
So that's a very good foundational point to have,
to be plugged into the hack layer.
Then after that, the chain is likely
going to be on top of OPGETCDK.
So it's combining all the best class technology
that you can get.
So it's OPStackCDdk and on top of that uh linking with
uh with zk on the on the proving part um yeah i see that sandy guys do you hear me yes we can hear
you sandy oh finally you know i had to change two three devices like I don't know why it's like so buggy but yeah, I'm really sorry, yeah
but finally I'm here
Well, we're
building the future of finance but
sadly for Twitter spaces
you know, we're chained
to the technology available and it's not great
Well, I think
much science gave a very good answer
a very good response on the Aglier.
Like I couldn't have described it better than him.
Yeah.
Awesome, Smokey.
Well, I do have a question for you, Sandeep.
So I will direct this one to you.
So people talk a lot about tokenization, but far less about compliance infrastructure.
Why do you think that
layer matters so much i think you know when you think about the large scale tokenization when
everybody is talking about that tokenization is going to take over the world and and all that
right you have to see that these large assets,
who are the parties who are going to tokenize
these large assets, right?
I mean, we have seen a lot of real estate tokenization
and very, I don't want to say low quality assets
tokenization, but assets which are being tokenized
by parties which are still playing a lower
game right lower level game but here we are talking about largest banks clearing houses
you know players like apex here right one of the largest you know clearing houses in the world and
all that who's accepted to you know launch a lot of uh funds on T-dex chain and things like that, right?
So you see like, who are these people who you want to bring on board to do the tokenization?
And I think that answer becomes very clear that these are some of the largest institutions,
highly regulated.
And for them, you know, it is a very daunting task to bring these tokenized assets on chain and you
know be worried about compliance right like that's that's the deal breaker like that's you know if
there is a multi-billion dollar asset you tokenize and it goes into the hands of a party which is
which is you know not compliant enough it might lead to hundreds of millions of dollars of fines
and things like that and plus reputational loss and so that's why like compliance when people talk
about rwa is very easily like you know you you have to understand that the compliance is probably
the most important part uh into it and it. And that's the foundation.
Like obviously building demand and other things
like having the proper audience for it
and all that are important,
but the foundational aspect is strong compliance part.
Like, you know, I mean, the way we saw DeFi,
some are becoming big and this and that, right?
And we realized later on many of the
uh you know kind of these uh you know like d5 primitives bridges and all that were built on
very weak foundations and suddenly when they break they when they broke like you know people lost
hundreds of millions of dollars in in their assets and all that but these were all anonymous people
and you know like people on the d5 and all that so these were all anonymous people and you know like people
on the d5 and all that so it created a lot of noise but you know eventually but imagine that
same thing happens to a multi-billion dollar fund right and something comes out later on which is
not you know kind of compliant enough regulated enough and all that and and things go wrong
you know it can lead to i mean I don't want to you
know kind of exaggerated more but like for some of the large banks it can create some sort of
systematic you know risk also for them so that's why like when you want to bring in and that's
where the T-Rex team and the leadership and the protocol has been built in a way that you know it
it inherently attracts the biggest and of the biggest players into the space
and that's where the compliance layer comes in you know it's not only like okay there is compliance
layer on some parts of the smart contracts and all that right what if like the you know the
validators who are validating that compliance are let's say you know somebody who's not into the I
was recently talking to an enterprise they
were even they were even concerned that the gas fees generated in the network also should not go
to like a sanctioned party right or like party which is which is undesirable and uh you know
these risks goes on go on and on and that's why like having a very very strong compliance layer
and you know these things being done by professionals in this space uh like the the
t-rex team and the current leadership and the protocol and the community the way they have
built it i think that's why you know it becomes more and more clear that why you need a very
sturdy compliance there because then your supply part is completely solved like i think daniel and joaquim and and luke and their team like you know they go and
talk to some of the biggest of the biggest like one each one of these parties can bring hundreds
of billions of dollars of asset and they have to go with a very very strong foundation of compliance
and which is a part of the t-rex chain and that's why like i believe that
the leadership has has taken stead steadfast efforts in that direction.
I love that.
Great answer, Sandeep.
I just want to give Daniel or MuchScience
an opportunity to piggyback off of that or comment.
So I think that Sandeep has been very clear in explaining, you know, what was the issue there.
You know, I want to be a bit blunt here in the sense that compliance has never been really a focus, right?
Because so far we have not been really interested in delivering utility to the assets.
The reality of the market has been that we wanted to deliver value on the chains.
And how you were creating the representation of those assets and how you were ensuring those assets to live in a broader environment
ecosystem was not the priority of the ecosystem, right?
We wanted to have pilot use case demonstrated that assets were tokenized.
But what this has led to is that people are coming back to us and telling us, you know,
why are we tokenizing in the first place?
Where is the utility behind the tokens?
And that comes back to compliance.
If you don't bring the compliance at the token level,
if you don't allow the compliance to be carried in the token,
there's no way that you can service a market that is driven by compliance.
This is not an option, right?
We feel compliance is something painful.
But in reality, compliance is connected with, you know, regulatory framework and obligation with the ultimate objective to protect investors.
Right. So if you don't allow the compliance to be following the token, that means that the utility will not be delivered because, you know,
the broader community and mostly obviously institutional investors will not be capable
of accessing the assets because the compliance team will not allow them to do so, right?
So by bringing the compliance, you know, at the token level, by allowing the TRX to serve as the canonical chain and
to broadcast that compliance to the various chain where distribution will happen, where
utility will be delivered, then we believe that we can unlock the utility of the token.
And if we unlock the utility of the token, And if we unlock the utility of the token,
we will also unlock adoption.
Wonderful.
Thank you for that.
Well, I want to switch gears just a little bit,
and I want to direct this question to much science.
So what did ERC3643's adoption prove before this launch?
Yes, so the point of ERC3643, it has been since the beginning to bring this compliance and identity validation at the token level and to make it an identity-centric framework basically.
The framework works very well when it's on a single chain because as I was explaining before,
once it's on a single chain, you have all the access to all the data that you need to enforce
all these compliance rules automatically on chain. And it has been a very, very great success until now.
So we have created this, the standard itself as an ERC
and then we created the ERC3643 Association,
which is a nonprofit and which has now about 140 members,
including huge Web3 players, including Polygon, for example,
but also Avalanche, even non-EVM chains,
such as Stellar, Solana, and others,
and big Tratify players, such as the Apex Group, Invesco,
many other banks, Tratify players.
And this token framework has been also pushed
in terms of presentation.
We proposed it to many jurisdictions in the world
to regulators, about 20 or 30 different regulators
that we have been presenting the token standard to.
And we had super great feedback every time
they understand very well what we are trying to do.
And they understand that we bring the real utility
to these tokens.
Not far away from here, like not long ago,
the chairman of the SEC, Paul Atkins,
has been even speaking about the ERC3643 standard
in his hearing with the Senate to explain
that that is the way to do tokenization of securities
because you can apply the rules of the securities
at the token level.
But the limitation of ERC3643 is when you move cross-chain.
As I was explaining before, all the data that you need to enforce automatic compliance
doesn't travel with the token natively.
And that's what we are looking to solve with TREX Ledger.
Wonderful. Thank you for that.
So I would really like to encourage everyone in the audience,
if you all could go on up and follow the T-Rex account,
that would be great to follow along with everything that they're doing.
So look, we're actually coming up to the end of the space.
So I just have one last question that I would like to direct on over to Daniel.
So what should institutions, issuers, and builders take away from this launch?
Well, obviously, we should also try to put
Daniel on the spot a little bit.
We should ask him what all the
secret meetings he's doing with the large
financial institutions and all that, Daniel.
Well, I think that the
message that we want
to share with the audience
here today is that the TRX is not just another
chain, right? As we mentioned, this is not something that we have created to compete with
others. If you look at the history of Tokeny, Tokeny has always been contributing to the open
space. We've been open sourcing the TRX, the ERC 3643. We've been creating the foundation.
The vision that we had from the very beginning is that this is not a single company play.
We need to involve the whole ecosystem. There's so much complexity in what we do
that a company cannot address all this complexity by itself.
You know, if you look at, you know, the chain, the custody, the interoperability, the privacy,
and all the application behind, right?
And I think that at the time of building TRX, we've been really discussing at length with Apex,
you know, how we should position the TRX.
And it became very clear that we need to position it as an industry initiative.
This is not an Apex chain.
Apex is committing to bring assets to create value for the ecosystem, to unlock the potential of the utility behind those assets. But, you know, no matter how big APEX is,
this is just still a fraction of the global market.
So we needed to involve other players.
We have invited other TA to join this initiative
and contribute with the assets
and contribute by also bringing the ecosystem
that they've also built on their end.
If you look at Apex, yes, we service 3.5 trillion.
There is also a company called Paxys, which is a fund accounting system
that is owned by Apex, but that company service 1,200 other TAs, right?
And we started to engage with other TAs, some of them being competitors of APEX, very clearly.
So, about this competitive edge.
But at the end of the day, you know, if we want this industry to grow, we need really to have all the participants that have already invested resources, that share the vision.
We need to bring them on an infrastructure that is aligned with their objective, with their needs,
with the type of governments they're looking for, right?
If we don't have those trusted parties that are today trusted by issuers
to service those assets, if we don't bring them to use such an infrastructure
and to bring those assets on chain, we will never achieve the scale that is required to deliver the utility to the tokens, right?
So the focus is about utility and utility can only come from scale.
So yes, we're talking to everyone, we're inviting everyone to chain, this is to join,
this is an industry initiative, this is not token, this is not an Apex initiative, this
is not a Polygon initiative. This is an industry initiative. And I think that if we indeed enable this community to join forces, we'll be successful.
I love that. What a great way to close out the space. The pie is big enough for everyone.
So, well, I do want to also, Sandeep, if you have any final closing thoughts, just give you the opportunity.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I think that, I think Daniel said it very, very nicely.
And in fact, like, I would say that even for me to understand the extent of this, you know, building the whole industry-wide, like, not the community community-wide but industry-wide initiative from Daniel like it it took some time to fully understand uh the the the basically the
extent uh of the industry-wide initiative like this is not like a term that Daniel uses lightly
Daniel and and you know his team Luke and everyone like you know now i i understand that very deeply that
you know they are very very committed to creating an open ecosystem where everybody can join in
because if like their point of view is and i now like when i when i've like understood over multiple
conversations with uh you know daniel luke and and hoke is that, you know, it is very, very important to bring all of these different parties into parties from the industry, big banks, like, you know, sometimes banks, which might be almost like rivals to each other, but how do you create an environment that they can come together in one single place right and and work together co-work together and the way they
have structured the overall uh you know the network governance and everything like everything is you
know looks to be very uh conducive to creating this industry-wide effort and if that you know
kind of flywheel starts churning once one time then you know this this will end up becoming the biggest like T-rex will be the
biggest RWA chain period right and then the things on top of that that you can do are like you know
humongous because you know like the partners Daniel and team and T-rex team is overall bringing in
um you know basically from all kinds of markets uh available on the chain not like it will start with the the
assets issuance but then they have you know once this becomes like the you know kind of the hub of
these rwa deployments then you know even the markets can be created you know a lot of ecosystems
like d5 can be layered in and things like that. So I think they are building from the mindset of building this company for next 10, 20 years.
And then when you build with that mindset and this kind of ecosystem openness,
sometimes you end up building the giants.
And this is what I expect the T-Rex to be, the giant RWA chain and the dominant RWA chain.
Great. Thanks for that, Sandeep.
Well, all right, everyone.
We have come to the end of the space.
Thanks, everybody, for joining.
And just as a reminder, if you're interested in building your own chain with CDK,
if you go to the very first pinned post, you can apply and a team member will reach out to you.
But thank you so much, everybody, for joining. Thank you, Daniel, and MuchScience, and Sandeep.
Really appreciate you coming out and contributing to the space.
And we will see you next time.
Thank you, everyone.
It was a pleasure.
Bye-bye.
