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talk to me nice @vecozy @vxdenton
Recorded: March 21, 2025 Duration: 0:32:32Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, participants explored the recent lifting of sanctions on Tornado Cash, signaling a potential growth phase for privacy projects. They also highlighted significant fundraising efforts in the crypto space, the rise of scams, and the SEC's proactive steps towards clearer regulations, reflecting the evolving landscape of cryptocurrency.
Full Transcription
GM GM GM GM privacy in jars
we got
Tornado cash the listed from the sanctions list
Really? Yeah. Yeah
Looks like we lost cozy
We check Oh, looks like we lost Cozy.
Let me check.
And are we back?
We are so back.
Yeah, you see the link?
And I closed our stream instead.
Oopsie. Let me see, sanctions.
Is it still the same link for the stream?
Yeah, you're on it. Why are you trying to invite someone?
We're still on it.
No, I mean the X link. Yeah, because I'm posting it.
Yeah, because I'm posting it. Yeah.
Uh, let's see. It shows that November 25th.
Oh, here we go. Okay. 14 minutes ago.
US Treasury withdraws tornado cash sanctions, maintains legal action on developer.
What the fuck?
So the contracts are not sanctioned, but the developers are still in jail, I guess.
I thought that they were already freed.
Then I don't know, maybe whatever legal action they are facing right now.
I don't know.
Let's pull this. I don't know.
Let's pull this. This might be bullish for some privacy related projects maybe.
No, he's still detained. So on Friday, the Treasury Department sanctions Watchdog lifted sanctions from tornado cash, a mixing tool that was blacklisted.
tornado cash, a mixing tool that was blacklisted. The decision comes following a federal appeals
court ruling last November. Okay. That's what I knew about happening. OFAC could not sanction
tornado cash as smart contracts as they did not constitute as property of any foreign national.
Mm-hmm. So let's see here
So although they're no longer sanctioned the developer Seminov is under sanctions
The sanctions have been adjusted to remove
Accusations related to cyber activities though his connection to North Korea keeps him on the sanctions list
That's stupid
Yeah, additionally Roman Storm is set to face trial in July
charged with developing the smart contracts and protocol
And then another guy has been charged but not arrested.
One tornado, cash, ghost.
And torn up over 50%.
Oh, nice.
I farmed a lot of torn back then.
You can come on right now if you want. But yeah, if you want to come on Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
pick the day and you can join us today. It's a little impromptu. We weren't going to do
it for me. We just decided to start late. I just-
You're invited any day.
Fucking Marty. Marty's got construction going on. I just moved and have had to plug everything in,
get everything set up.
So we did not think we were gonna make it,
but here we are.
Still at it.
So any privacy projects you like?
Anything you want to wrap up?
I was in the narrow maxi for a long time but I just
feel like there have been so many instances now to show how the privacy
could be broken that unless any of them were to reach like, I don't know, Solana's shitcoin like activity,
you know, like you're not really protecting yourself.
You're saying because it's not active enough for them and mixing to for the churning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I see what you mean.
Well, it depends on who you're up against.
It depends on how hard the wallets are being investigated.
Yeah, sure.
It's okay for some things, but it's not, you can't just, you know, do whatever.
But there's this one project that Vitalik endorsed a while back called Railgun.
And I want rail like Railgun.
I was going to look into it, but I never actually checked in detail, but I'm going to check
it out since Vitalik endorsed it.
It's some privacy related thing.
Is it a like, what is the protocol?
They have a token and the protocol is called Railgun and I literally did not research it.
So I just remembered Vitalik endorsing this.
And supposedly they somehow filter like North Korea related addresses, but I don't know
if that's true.
Well, I mean, that's not like super difficult. There are
third party services you can use right now where you essentially like run a risk check or run an address against a risk scoring system.
And some of those, some of the things that will delineate
a score is like location of IP or whether they're using
a VPN, the source VPN, you know, what smart contracts
they've interacted with, who sent them money?
things like that
So this could be
You know an input there could be an implementation of that on it on fucking polygon of course I
Think it's it's only on polygon. I think it's on a few things
it's only on polygon I think it's on a few things and Monero actually I mean
I've always liked it and it turned out to even be a good investment for the
past year because it's been outperforming ETH and Bitcoin for a
little bit it's been sitting over 200 afterTH and Bitcoin for a little bit.
It's been sitting over 200 after breaking out of like a three year range since 2022.
And yeah,
it paid off to be a Minerable for the recent while.
It's kind of similar to Litecoin performance, I guess, like short term, it kind of had its
thing.
The thing about this is like, I just find it so silly.
Okay.
Sure.
You can do it.
You can shield the NFT that you own.
But if anyone knows that you bought that at any point, it's very easy to track that.
It has a token ID. Someone else will receive that token ID.
It's one of a limited series. Like there are a lot of things that make NFTs probably the worst way to transfer something hidden or try to launder, you know, funds.
Yeah.
Very, very.
What about the RC-20 tokens?
Yeah.
If that works.
I'll have to look into this a bit more.
But yeah, I'm going to look into it.
The DeFi side of it seems cool
Arbitrum to polygon VSC
The old railgun cookbook
Let's look at this, look at this piece of shit here. Where are we going with this?
Where is it going?
All right, so yesterday was the 20th. Yeah. Crime. Literal crime. Yeah. If you ever see ETH outperforming, expect to be disappointed and short.
It just retraced the whole thing, but kind of maybe establishing a floor at the top of
the range.
Maybe. the top of the range, maybe.
Even before it fucking rugs again.
I remember thinking that that wick on February 3rd was the bottom.
Cozy shorted from here.
It's not easy, but it's honest work.
Yeah.
You see a strategy, formerly known as micro strategy, secured over 700 million from recent preferred stock offering
Really surpassed our initial target by like almost 40%
nice
Let's see. What else? What else we got?
I saw people mentioning a lot of OTC scams, like fake OTC deals.
Yeah, talking about the OTC thing.
So I mean, the way it's been with like legit deals for the past while is sometimes, I mean,
through your connections, like people approach you, like there's a certain raise some project
is doing, it's limited, you don't have a lot of time.
And some real deals have been like that.
But now, it looks like a lot, a lot of fake ones, like people, they take money from you
and then they start paying you out for a couple months
to build trust.
Then they encourage you to invest in a few more things
and then they basically rug you.
This is like a classic scam from the real world
where they like pay you dividends for a couple months
to make it look
like they're actually gonna pay you but they already took way more out of you than they're
paying. It's a really basic scam but it looks like it's that phase of the bear market. Just
people getting high yield in scams. Yeah, yeah. Just hitting every avenue possible
to scam people out of the last money they have.
You know, I remember in 2018 maybe,
those were super like popular.
You saw them all the time popping up for Bitcoin.
Like Bitcoin mining things, you know,
depositors or Bitcoin lending, you know, depositors, or Bitcoin lending, you know,
lend us your Bitcoin and we'll pay you out this much percent every day,
bonuses for referrals, and they're just huge scams, you know, they're literally just stealing your money.
They pay out as long as people keep joining and as soon as it slows down, they just exit scam.
Yeah, I've seen it in the real world with like unrelated to
crypto. Just like cash. Like people scamming people who are
not good at like financial stuff and don't understand how
suspicious it sounds. Yeah. Yeah.
They pay them out for a few weeks and then they just ghost them
or they just keep telling them there's problems,
there's a delay,
like I'm gonna need some more money to cover this,
but I promise after this period it's gonna be fun.
They just rinse people out.
It's very sad because these people,
they usually prey on people that
don't even have like spare money. Dude I guess Zach XBT just uncovered some some
some trader who was like a pretty well-known or the whale guy well well
Revere trader and he's like got his addresses linked him back to some like fishing site. Hmm
Nice
Yeah, here it says, crypto trader that made millions trading derivatives this year has
Yeah here it says
been identified as William Parker, convicted fraudster according to Zagat's PT.
Parker made almost seven mil on one position going long on BTC before Donald Trump's announcement
of the crypto reserve.
Then he turned around and made another nine million going short BTC as a price
pump quickly reversed all of his positions use 50 X.
It seems as though higher is gambling was this particular trade specialty
is on chain data suggests the wallet frequently interacted with Rubit.
Gamdom shuffle BC game, Mediwin accounts, all crypto-based casinos.
The wallet connected the trades was set as the Drainer fee receiver on a phishing website
in January, saving $17,000 from a phishing Drainer customer in the same month.
Investigation then dives into a Solana wallet that was the first interactive of the trader's
wallet.
The Sol wallet made withdrawals from four casinos following an input validation
exploit on a casino game. Zach reached out to the casino, provided him with a telegram
account of the user. That telegram account yielded verification that the trader was
active on chain at the same time posting the derivative trading chats.
Then he went a step further and found a payment sent to the trader by an unnamed person on the the in jail in Finland for stealing a million from two concedos in 2023. He was served time
in 2010 in the UK for multiple fraud charges related to hacking and gambling. Career hacker
and gambler. Nice. Yeah, that's crazy. He's been arrested in 2010. Kept doing this since then.
Dude, what's crazy is to me, like I would get it in,
I kind of get it if you like have nothing, right?
Like doing anything to make money to survive.
But like the dude has money.
Like, why are you 15 years later,
still doing things that are gonna put you in jail?
Like still scared.
He's addicted to the adrenaline rush.
Very well could be.
I know people like that who,
like I don't talk to them as an adult anymore,
but like when I was younger, it wasn't that they needed to steal they weren't poor
They just enjoyed like the rush of knowing they were doing something they shouldn't be doing and that they could get caught
Yeah, and getting away with it
Yeah
they would steal the dumbest shit and like I hated going places with them because I knew that there was like a
90% chance that they shoved something down their pants or in their pockets.
They're stealing Snickers bars from the store.
No, they like to do like, sometimes they would do really like dumb stuff.
Like I mean like things that were on the pricier side that would have tags on them just to
see if they could get away with it, you know?
That's crazy.
Yeah. know like yeah yeah just just really dumb bottom of the barrel IQ activities
luckily I don't hang out with people anymore so I don't know what people do Let's see what else is going on.
So China expressed concerns about the growing dominance of US dollar-backed stablecoins.
Oh, I wonder if we get a China stablecoin soon.
Where's the CB yen?
Yeah.
Probably won't happen.
Not by CV, not by CV. I mean, like you'll get a digital yen, but.
Oh yeah. They have their, their thing on, uh,
what is it? We chat, Weibo or something for a while like requesting payments and all that is very smooth over there. Isn't plan B fucking some account called Plan B. They are...
Is that the one who was predicting like a certain price and it
didn't end up happening?
He uses the stock to flow prediction like that.
That's what his thing is.
And he uses that to debunk the upcoming bear market because
Bitcoin's price has doubled every cycle, essentially, he
ended up being wrong in like 2021 or 2022. And then he pivoted,
like change this model or something I remember when
it when we were talking when it fell through let's see
plan B dismissed the notion this new phase of market trade would affect the
validity of his trademark stock to flow price model stating that this behavior falls under the possibilities 80k
plus 160k plus 320k plus 640k divided by four equals 300k average. This is just within stock
to flow ranging 250k to a million. Also, this is way above most other models. I just here's my thing, right?
Mm hmm.
That guy is right on a long enough time scale.
Like I am I am when Bitcoin was $1,000.
And it was having its run up.
It going to 20, I already thought was pretty crazy.
And the people that were calling for 100,
I didn't quite understand it yet.
Like how that would ever happen.
So I thought they were like really crazy.
Then I started to understand money much better.
And like the financial system outside of crypto.
And I came to understand that that really because of our inflationary fiat currencies are it
is very possible that yeah like 100k wasn't hard to get to and it's very
possible that we like continue on this model where, you know, what is 2X?
You know, like what is a 10% move and like a 10% move on fucking, you know, Bitcoin
when it's up there.
Even like, Treadfy analysts and like Xedge Fund people, they're starting to treat Bitcoin.
I noticed one who does like macro analysis and is a lot more cautious, he still has like
a 2% allocation to Bitcoin.
So even like some super cautious macro people, some of them are already treating Bitcoin seriously, like they're treating it like digital gold basically.
Yeah.
His allocation is literally 82% cash, 15% gold and the rest Bitcoin. He doesn't even, he, uh, one macro analysis, analysis guy that I follow, like he, he took
out money out of stocks recently before the crash and he still kept Bitcoin because he
sees it more as a hedge on like gold is.
Yeah.
Hedge against fiat.
Yeah.
I, uh, one of the movers was asking me actually about that.
It was like it, he, you know,
obviously moving me out of my last place into this place.
It's not that my last place wasn't nice.
It's just that it was small, you know?
And so he was like, I gotta ask, like, why are you moving?
You know, like you guys moving closer to a school
or for work or he's like, this place is pretty nice.
I was like, no, no, it's just, I need more space.
Like when you get to the other house, you'll see it's like three times the size
of this one and, uh, of the town home.
And, uh, he's like, okay.
And when we got here and he saw, he's like, damn, he's like, what do you
do if you don't want to ask?
I told him what I do.
And he was like, you know, I want to get involved with like crypto and stuff, but it just seems
kind of confusing.
And I'm like, to be honest with you, like if you're looking to trade, don't.
If you're looking to invest like the way you'd invest in stocks or gold or something, and
you just want to put money into something that you are pretty sure will grow over the next decade, then
just buy Bitcoin.
Like just throw your money in there.
And I literally explained that I'm like, you can think of it as a hedge against like fiat.
Like if you understand money and you think like fiat currency is fucked, and it's highly
inflationary and
that's why our things are more expensive, then like Bitcoin is that hedge and we exchange
gamer tags.
We'll talk about it more when we play.
But I look at it just like that.
I have the same view as Marty does that Bitcoin on a forever time scale goes up forever against
the up and there is no better hedge unless you're a gold bug.
Yeah, which there is enough historical data with gold to show that it has like very long
periods of under performance.
So it's harder for me to justify it compared to Bitcoin, which, but it's also
because of the lack of the historical data.
Like we don't know how Bitcoin is going to look like in 30 years.
It's also the time period that you grew up in because like, yeah, tech bubble.
up in because like, yeah, tech bubble.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like people that grew up in our generation and then earlier, I mean, I
mean later, you know, like, uh, they were, they're younger than us.
Uh, this is the norm, you know, like, uh, digital payments, digital money,
uh, P2P payment, like all of that is very normal.
No one, no one grew up.
No one who's younger than us grew up without mobile pay.
But it's also like there were a few periods where people were calling the
like for the top of tech, like after the dot com bubble, people were saying it's
over. Then after the technology's over guys, people, people were saying it's over. Then after the technology's over guys, pack it up. People were saying it's
over after like in the 2010 era. Like, and since then, fucking tech companies are up like a billion
percent. Going back to rotary phones. Their control is only higher. Like there's so much more
business models now, like all this subscription bullshit, like there's so many ways to extract money.
I don't know, I just, like people think,
keep saying it's the top for tech and it's a bubble,
I just think it's gonna keep going.
Top those.
Think about how much more we're paying now
for like all kinds of services and shit and subscriptions
and sometimes it's even useful sometimes.
Yeah.
Sometimes it's not even a scam.
100%.
What else we got?
I saw the SEC's crypto task force is going to have a round table on crypto asset regulation.
I wonder if we're going to walk this public step by the SEC to address cryptocurrencies.
Yeah, I think they are.
Is there a date?
I'm looking right now at the article.
Hold on, let me scroll.
Oh, there we go.
When? You can't just say you're going to do it and not announce the date. Sometime in the spring? The spring sprint toward crypto clarity series. Oh, being on Friday. So this week actually starts, who is doing it?
Let's see, I wanna find where to tune in.
Doesn't say what's it called? SCC the spring sprint toward crypto clarity series.
Pull that shit up, Jamie.
It says it kicks off on March 21st.
This is today.
But I don't know.
Oh my God.
To the public kick off on March 21st and we'll be open to the public.
I'm on the if you go to scc.gov slash about slash crypto dash task dot force.
They have some info on it but I still don't see where they're streaming it from.
There we go, crypto task force round tables, event information.
One PM to five PM, ESD.
One PM to five PM EST. 1 PM to 5 PM?
Yeah.
Eastern time.
I might have to tune in.
Once you hear these boomers, you got to say, agenda.
Opening remarks, roundtable from 1.20 to 3.
We'll monitor discussion, following the roundtable.
All right, let's see who these fuckers are. partner at Brookwood PC. Delphi
Avengers.
Yep. Sarah Brennan from Delphi.
Chris Brunner from Georgetown
Law.
I'm sorry.
Lewis Cohen. What?
Step toe. Never heard of them.
Yeah. A lot of getting involved
in. Damn. He clerked as a staff attorney for U.S. Court of Appeals for the
Fourth Circuit after earning his J.D. Magnicum line from Pepper Dunn. Miles Jennings. Good on Miles. I know
this guy actually. I've had a
few calls with him.
Coolie LLP.
I used to use them, not me, but the company I worked for.
See what I have to say.
Except I still don't know where it's going to be streamed.
Hope someone on our timeline decides to post it.
I will, I'll try to, I'll try to post it. I will, I'll try to, I'll try to post it. Well, we're at the top of the hour.
I know you got to get going. Be safe out there, boys and girls. Don't get liquidated over
the weekend. I will try to stream. I'll go live if this is on an hour and maybe stream
it for meeting. But we'll see. Yeah, stay on the lookout for interesting projects. Now Five of this is on an hour and maybe streaming from Eden.
But we'll see. Yeah, stay on the lookout for interesting projects
now that we're at a bearish market.
It's time to do research.
Time to get on the research cap,
get out to your dream and build those.
Yeah.
And I'll catch you on Monday.
Ace, if you're watching, come join us Monday.
I'll send you a link early, like 10 a.m.
Yeah, yeah.
Later.
