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TALKING ABOUT THE STOCK MARKET (WOLF EUROPE) 🇪🇺
Recorded: Dec. 18, 2025 Duration: 1:01:00Space Recording
Short Summary
The conversation delves into the rapid growth of AI technologies in Europe, highlighting key developments such as Google's new AI research lab, the rise of AI defense startups, and the strategic partnerships forming within the financial sector. With significant investments and innovations on the horizon, Europe is poised to become a major player in the global AI landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good morning, everyone. Can you guys hear me? Hello? Is my audio working?
Yes, it is.'m awesome lovely to hear everyone's voices today mix always a
pleasure having you up here um i believe i sent a request to sandeep as well as one of our special
guest speakers today let me see if i can try and re-invite you again one second here we go
alex okay great we're just waiting for a few more people to come join us but in the meantime
we're going to kick things off today in the AI and tech investing space in Europe what you know
the direction we're going obviously US has a heavy influence and its participation and to see
where the EU is involved and potentially what AI tools you could use as well or where to look
to get exposure in tech and, you know, AI, maybe some ETFs as well, as we touched on last week.
So a couple of headlines today, you know, well, more so recently.
This was the biggest one probably hit back in September for the US.
Basically, President Donald Trump suspending £31 billion sterling
for UK tech prosperity deal, sort of trade tensions kind of going on there.
Obviously, that includes major tech investments from Microsoft and Google in the UK for AI data centers and quantum tech.
Obviously, slightly for reasons, including digital services, tax and non-tariff barriers.
So just some relations going on there.
And then more so recently, we've had Google DeepMind
announcing first automated AI research lab in the UK. And that's going to be really exciting for job
growth over here as well and expanding, you know, a deep focus in AI for the UK government with
robotics and Powered Lab for next year and focusing on superconductor materials
from medical imaging and things like that
and semiconductors itself.
So more broader collaboration with AI and science
and energy in the public services sector.
And then, of course, the main topic we've been discussing
around EU as our vantage is basically AI defense startup booming in the UK
and Germany. We have rising, obviously, geopolitical tensions and with NATO spending,
targets fueling, absolute surge in venture funding for AI driven defense tech. UK and Germany just
emerging as the big hubs and companies like Helsing are expanding. And then the EU advances plans for up to five AI gigafactories, which is insane.
So European Council adopts a position to create like a massive AI computing center, you know, under the Euro HPC, boosting research in industry.
And then just to sort of tailor that off, we have EU, 20% of the EU enterprises are now in AI technologies. So Eurostat data shows basically adoption of very sharp up to from 2024 with the strongest growth in natural language processing and generation tools.
So that's the highest rates are in Denmark, Finland and in Sweden.
So those are the recent headlines.
And I would love to get some of our speakers' thoughts.
And I believe we have some very important data that has just dropped the BOE.
I'd like to hand it over to Forex if you're ready.
Forex, are you there?
Hang on. Sorry, just had to click the mute button there uh yeah we just had the bank of england out and maybe not as dovish as some in the market wanted uh after that cpi report we got earlier
this week uh the vote was five to four to cut rates by 25 basis points, which some would have expected that vote to be a bit wider, maybe a 6372.
A little bit of change to the language. The gradual language is still in there.
But they say that further cuts will be a closer decision.
So that was a little bit of a dovish start.
But we're seeing the pound getting a little bit of a bid on just on the back of that, as I say, market thinking they might have got something a bit more dovish.
But personally, I think it was dovish enough that it will keep them cutting into next year.
And that should keep the pound on the back foot moving forward.
Great stuff. And thank you for that.
Hopefully that should drive a bit more capital back into this side of the world.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, in theory, that's what was supposed to happen.
Yeah, we'll see what actually happens
because, yeah, we have also, you know,
obviously the Fed cutting as well.
That's good.
That was a massive, you know,
turnaround here for us as well.
And do feel free
to please follow our lovely speakers today throughout the show and if you do have questions
throughout the discussions that we have do drop your comments we'd love to hear your thoughts on
AI and tech investing here in Europe I'd love to kick things off actually with Sandeep here from
our research here from Leverage Shares love to have you on here today from our European side.
Oh, are you here?
Let's drop down.
I just sent you another invite there.
One second.
Having some technical difficulties.
Sandeep, are you there?
I might have to press the mute button.
I'm mute.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
There we go.
There we go.
Yay.
Love to welcome you onto the show here today.
We'd love for you to give an intro what you do, you know, and how you can help better educate or help investors over this side of the waters.
I know Europe has basically a 74 billion euro in funding in AI alone, which basically now accounts for about close to one fifth of all venture capital flowing into Europe, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, take it away.
Sure thing.
So I am a senior researcher at Leverage Shares Europe,
one of Europe's largest issuers in leveraged products around single stocks, commodities, and ETFs.
We occupy nine out of ten spaces in the top most traded ETPs uh in the London Stock
Exchange and uh we have grown in volume uh in both uh in both uh Italy uh Germany and we're
almost double the volume of last year in Amsterdam so AI ai themes are pretty important to us they constitute a large volume of
the interest in our products predictably it's nvdi that leads the pack in the ai in the ai names that
investors are heavily interested in and for good reason uh names have stolen the March on European names in terms of
establishing benchmarks and providing high water marks for efficiency or effectiveness in solutions
delivery till date so Europe has a lot of catching up to do there are some promising names in the
European space such as Mistral is a very good example.
In case some of you have not seen this,
Mistral is the exclusive AI provider for banks such as HSBC,
European banks such as HSBC.
And a lot of the AI tooling that is happening in these kinds of banks
are coming from the likes of Mistral,
which is actually French government funded, has been a recipient
of such kind of initiatives in the past.
So although the Americans might have stolen a march on the Europeans, the distance can
be made up pretty quickly.
No worries about that.
Yeah.
So I want to get your thoughts on that because i'm obviously
being u.s with the top big mag 5 and mag 6 companies over there where do you see in terms
of europe's um i guess advantage over here where do you see the growth in terms of the direction
here where do you think europe has the leverage if you like or vantage over the US? Well, buy-ins in Europe are relatively easier
because of a high level of coordination
between the public sector and the private sector.
For example, I mean that if the French government
offers an AI model solution that it has co-funded
or has helped out in funding,
French banks are more ready to accept these solutions,
accept the models and test them out and help in deployment.
So in a way, there is a lot of interest in adopting native solutions.
At the same time, one big thing to keep in mind with AI models is data protection.
Europe has very strong and high standards in state and at both the public sector level
and the private sector level to sort of safeguard data because data is money.
Whether we like it or not, data is money.
And why let the money go overseas or abroad or be monetized elsewhere?
So there's a very strong incentive for that.
And because of the preponderance of bigger names in the European economy,
the percentage rate of adoption can be scaled up quite quickly
in Europe relative to America,
which has a lot more firms that would have to come on board before you can
show high levels of penetration. So Europe does have some structural advantages here,
but time is of the essence and as is money. So any kind of funding that is happening needs to continue.
Achievements need to be benchmarked and maintained.
And if possible, shared among European member nations and similar initiatives happening across EU
to make this a sort of a defensible,
make a defensible moat around European AI initiatives.
That's interesting there.
Thank you so much for your thoughts there, Sandeem.
Please do give him a follow.
He has a ton of information there for you guys to look into.
I'd like to hand over to Eunice here,
another guest speaker here.
If you'd like to give yourself a little intro,
I know you're a slightly different take
with AI in terms of probably more trading and a little bit more into the crypto world.
Yunus, are you there?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, we'd love your thoughts on how you would see AI growth here in Europe and how you could utilize or how other investors could utilize AI as well in a different perspective, maybe.
Yeah, of course. So personally, I'm actually not a programmer, but, you know, I work in a business development on a crypto exchange.
on a crypto exchange but i used ai a lot in the past two years and i have some ml models which
running on es and mostly on crypto but my take would be on ai for regular all investors will be
that to use ai as more as an analyst not a trader uh because you know you you might have all seen
that on twitter there was one time it exploded.
They were racing all the AIs, DeepSeek, ChatGPT, and their portfolio,
and they all went down to negative after some point.
So AI is actually, whatever you feed it, then you get in the output.
So if you don't know how to use it in terms of technical side,
I think that there's a bigger learning curve on that part.
That's why, for example, in the exchange that I'm working for,
we have AI trading bots, which are designed by quantitative researchers,
not as regular people.
But I think for regular investors and just to use
the AI, there's a lot of ways.
I mean, you know, you can even run simulations from, let's say 2024 and, you know, try to
make AI a basket of stocks, for example.
And then, you know, you can look at the performance yourself as well. So there's a lot of ways,
but the most thing I see from people
is that go to ChatGPT and write,
go and find me a hedge fund level strategy
with no drawdown, please.
And that is not the way.
And I think heavily that AI is a really good analyst for the moment.
For example, in crypto, as I work in crypto,
but I mentioned a few fundamental details about when you're investing in a token,
because there's a lot of details in tokenomics,
the total supply, the signature
powers within the team and, you know, unlimited supply, there's, let's say, opening the contract,
et cetera.
You can use AI to, you know, research all this stuff and make your report and process
these large sums of information to your categories and what you look for.
Previously, I think everyone was doing this manually.
And of course, I'm not saying that AI does not make a mistake.
It does make mistakes.
But the more you make it give direction, the better, I think.
And it's processing information a lot faster than humans
so if you know what you're looking for it's really good to process that information and make good use
of it rather than just using ai as a trader yeah that sounds really interesting so i guess obviously
that would be the you know funniest question is always asking yeah find me a fund or
where do I put my money in with the least drawdown it's so simple question that every investor
obviously would love in the ideal dream world how could someone get started or what would be sort of
some better questions or maybe some resources people can look at to get started are these like
other tools embedded into the exchanges or are they just
purely using charts and data and feeding it into say chat tpt or grok or whoever
yeah i think there's two sides of this of course i build a lot of tools with technical indicators
and backtest them quite heavily and one thing i like to do a lot in the Twitter space,
I mean, in the Twitter field is actually like,
you know, there's a lot of people who are claiming that,
you know, their strategy works wonders and makes a lot of money.
And they describe their setup, for example, on the chart.
And, you know, I backtest these on automated strategies
and see, you know, if it's any good or not.
But this is a little bit of a, I think, on the next level, because for strategies, I use Python to develop and I get the data from data providers, etc.
So that's the technical part.
And I'm not a programmer, as I mentioned, and it's not a heavy learning curve for someone
who has time to get into this stuff as well.
And for coding, I heavily strongly suggest anyone to use Cloud from Anthroponic as an
AI to code for you, because I use it all the time and it's better than GPT for coding,
in my opinion. But for research purposes, you know, I mentioned the technical side
using technical indicators, price and information.
But for fundamental side, you know, as I mentioned, there's even a funny example,
you know, you can make GPT a basket at, let's say, start of 2024.
GPT a basket at let's say start of 2024 and you can make it look at all the papers and news before
that date and make a basket and actually compare that its performance right now I mean because
that's what everyone's trying to do just like you said everyone's asking GPT to make me like a good
investment basket or give me really good stocks to invest
in right now. And you can test its ability, but to use it at its best, I think you have to know
what you're looking for in terms of what information you want it to process. Like for
companies, you know, you can make it earning calls, the fillings and analyst reports and everything.
And you can make a large database and look at all the stocks from that perspective.
And you can normally not process that information yourself.
But with AI, that's really easy now.
So I think that's one of the best ways in terms of fundamental analysis
that is some great insights there no thought about using AI in that way to sort of create
yourself a basket of stocks normally we would go to the ETF fund that you know does it all for you
which I would love to circle back around to Sandeep actually are you guys using AI heavily
into your guys research or structures of your ETF funds or ETNs rather?
And how do you assist your clients in that way?
Well, when you want to prepare a fact sheet, like Eunice mentioned, preparing fact sheets and shall we say a little bit of a primer on a particular fund,
on the performance of a particular product so and
so forth uh ai tends to be quite useful because there's a wealth of data out there uh on the
internet which it is effectively able to scrape collate and make sense of as long as you give the
right parameters and structure uh but again on a decision-making level, AI does tend to make many, many mistakes, which
basically means, basically the core tenet to hold on to when it comes to AI tools, at least right
now, is use but verify. Not verifying it's out to it can be a very, very fatal mistake.
I can give you an example.
I was looking at...
Yeah, that'd be great.
Okay.
I was looking at, sorry, semiconductors.
Oh, yeah.
I'll give you two examples because it was hilarious.
I was looking at cryptocurrencies and
ChatGPT basically told me that a Bitcoin halving cycle
is supposed to happen in december 2025.
that's not true it's not happening in 25. it's happening probably in 26 27 or maybe 28.
so i took a look at it i tried to do a deep dive into finding out what it's where did i find this
interesting piece of information and it turned out it was something on X that somebody posted
that had relatively strong in the,
a slightly strong number of views.
They said, okay, so you took a,
you looked at something and you came up with a hypothesis
that is untestable.
As similarly, when I was doing, going through,
I was putting the same AI model through,
through spaces and asked to analyze the semiconductor sector.
It told me that 2025 is a weak year for semiconductors, which is patently not true.
Completely opposite, as we've seen. Patently not true. Again, I did a deep dive and it
mistook, somehow, it mistook 2022 for 2025. I don't know how it did that, but it did that.
So I said, yeah, trust but verify.
Sometimes values are very beautiful.
It gives great structure for content.
But more often than not, you have to verify what it's saying is correct or not.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for your thoughts. And then please do give our
speakers a listen there. I personally, myself have run into, you know, being careful using AI too.
You can't fully rely on it. Absolutely have to look for the real source, especially if you're
using Grok, because it's obviously scanning through Twitter or X and obviously people will post things that are not
back truly by the real source. So it might, we don't know what's actually programmed on the
back end to, you know, make it think or pull the sources of data to, you know, think in that way.
So validation is crucial. Please always do your research. Of course, everything on here is not
professional financial advice. Always make sure you do your due research. Of course, everything on here is not professional financial advice.
Always make sure you do your due diligence.
Every investor or platform will always provide their official prospectus
over here in Europe, which is a requirement by law.
So obviously you can see the performance of every fund that happens here.
that happens here sorry Sadeep did you want to elaborate on something oh no uh that's like I
Sorry, Sadeep, did you want to elaborate on something?
Oh, no.
I would too will reiterate that I'm not offering financial advice and also I will also say that
yeah when it comes to making a very pretty structure for something you're trying to write down
if you offer it your raw data it does a very good job. But do your own research, please.
AI even, you know, AI merely replicates natural stupidity and gives it structure.
So it can also amplify natural stupidity sometimes.
So let's just remember that it amplifies.
It has high potential to amplify natural stupidity.
Yeah, I think some of us in the Discord world,
I'm sure, Minx, you've probably experienced this yourself,
using AI and amplifying one's thoughts.
I'd like to bring to Trader Alex, actually.
How are you utilizing AI and are you using it in a structured
way and we'd love to know how your process looks like with using tech and AI today
yeah so what Yunus and Sandeep was pushing on obviously kind of what you put in is what you're
gonna get so yeah in my experience Yunus actually put me onto Cloud for coding tools
for CRI chart and other platforms.
And yeah, a lot is about training the tool
on the actual thing you're trying to do
with some examples and so on.
But what I really wanted to talk a little bit about is
I find it kind of interesting, the European AI angle in general,
because we have pretty interesting focus,
kind of industry-specific focus when it comes to ai um yeah especially when it
comes to like yeah especially when it comes to like powering smart factories grids advanced
semiconductors and stuff like that so you know you see companies like siemens from germany
um they're doing big industrial giant embedding in AI and smart factories.
You got Hexagon from Sweden.
They're also doing industrial software.
And here in Sweden, I mean, we have a lot of interesting unicorns.
We're second in unicorns to Silicon Valley.
to Silicon Valley.
But it seems like we're starting to see a push
towards AI growth, powered growth lending
and robo advisors.
So sort of like an AI acting like a fund of funds.
And I think it's just interesting a little bit to highlight that
because yesterday we were talking about how Europe has a bit
of a savings problem.
They're a little bit afraid of being active in the market
and doing decisions for themselves.
And it can be many reasons for that.
And maybe taking out uh that human uh in between so maybe some people are yeah i mean
it's an interesting subject but maybe you want to talk about something else yeah no i i love that
um it actually makes sense because i was going to ask everyone here is where do you think Europe is quietly strongest in the AI and tech space itself?
Obviously, we have to look at the subsectors or the segmentation of sub AI and tech.
Europe actually focuses more on the industrial AI, you're correct, and enterprise software, which actually makes total sense.
I think, well, at least here in the UK, we definitely feel it. If you want to go and,
I don't know, talk to for some help for your banking or your gas bill or just even your phone
bill or your cable internet, most of us go through this chatbot or, you know, AI. It's not a real person unless you actually request for a real agent.
So enterprise software and infrastructure is massive growth over here.
So I'm not sure if that's true also in Sweden or other parts in Europe where you guys are at.
I guess less consumer hype.
I know America is very focused on that, whereas we're more for applied use cases, if that makes sense.
So strong semiconductors and automation, cybersecurity, fintech is a huge one, which we'll definitely cover in a future show.
And then defense tech as well in itself.
What are your guys' thoughts on this?
Well, yeah,
I absolutely agree.
And I will
just sum
it up a little bit because I was the last speaker.
So everybody else
has times. But yeah, like you
said, overall
in Europe, it's more like...
By the way, Ima, I sent you a message.
You should check your messages. Can you you should check your messages Yeah, thank you
Yeah, so
overall in Europe
of course more focused towards
industry, but
I think Sweden is one of those that
is a little bit more
consumer focused
Yeah, I agree there So with Sandeep coming consumer focused.
Yeah, I agree there.
So with Sandeep coming back to you,
we'd love to cover any sort of stocks in particular or ETFs that you feel people can look into,
names over here.
I know obviously the commodities have been a big growth
in the tech and AI space.
So yeah, like I mentioned earlier, in the European space,
Mistral is a very interesting company to look into.
But if you're going to talk about AI, generally, unfortunately,
it goes back to the Americans.
It's basically the Mag 7.
An interesting thing to look into is that an interesting pattern we're seeing
right now is that overall market sentiment has sort of turned on AI stocks
and they're taking a protective position or rather a baseline position by
buying TSMC,
which is essentially the default foundry, more or less,
for basically every single AI chip out there.
For most AI chips, I should say,
because the Chinese claim that they're making their own chips as well,
which remains to be seen if they can survive as long as TSMC design chips generally do.
But TSMC is essentially the foundry of choice for pretty much every ai uh ai company out there
so uh that's a tsmc is an interesting company to look into right now but having said all that
there are many indications that the air hype is uh at least in the public market space is about
to pop which might actually be a good thing uh If it pops, we'll probably see a lot more
development opportunities across the world on localized lines. And it might actually turn out
to be a big bonus for the AI sector in Europe, India, and even Latin America.
Yeah, that's really interesting there. And do you have any favorite names that you are looking into yourself
or any of your clients are sort of more sort of heavier exposure in?
TSMC is the one, like I mentioned.
Interestingly, people are, we have seen a little bit of a trend
where people are switching from NVIDIA to TSMC saying that even if,
essentially the argument is this, even if NVIDIA's chip demand
falls, the alternatives are also manufactured by TSMC. So I'd rather bid on TSMC than NVIDIA,
which is a very interesting argument that I've been seeing in the last couple of weeks.
So I would say, guys, if you haven't been taking a look at TSMC, the foundry,
it's a pretty good time to take a look at it yeah i definitely um obviously the u.s being more heavier in tech um i think
most of the favorite yeah tsmc and then uh you have nvidia as well of course and all the other
ai chips are available on american stock which you can get over here in Europe in your tax wrappers as well.
We did mention that last week on our last show.
You can invest into all these names
on international markets from here.
Yeah, yeah.
For example, our products offer
that kind of exposure for sure.
We offer both leveraged and inverse
and straight tracking as well.
So they trade in european house and
there are other etfs of course i guess i have to say in the interest of fairness
that there are of course other ets and products that track it uh but yeah uh the opportunity there
are opportunities galore to get an exposure to these kinds of instruments even if they're us
to get an exposure to these kinds of instruments,
even if they're US listed.
But going forward,
keep an eye out on the private space a lot.
We can expect a few interesting names
come up out of Europe through the IPO route,
which will be AIIP.
Again, I'm referring to Mistral,
which is looking pretty promising right now.
Great.
Yeah, everyone can check out that there on the charts there.
I will say, and one thing that does surprise me a little bit,
I am surprised that Europe has more of these 3, 4, 5x ETPs,
leverage in there, whatever their exact definition or correct terminology is.
If you would have told me Europe was not letting the leverage in there at all
and was stuck at 1x, I probably would have believed more uh than saying you guys are like uh we're going
all in 5x on the stuff so that is one thing that does surprise me a little oh you shouldn't be
surprised at all if you go into germany you'll see 17 x's 17 x yeahx, both sides. Wow.
Yeah, 2 to 3x is quite conservative, I would say.
2 to 3, basically, the darlings for the musts.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think you can definitely check out LeverageShares and do give Sandeep a follow.
He has more information and details on that,
how you can get more exposure to the markets on that.
I just wanted to also cover, like, with, you know,
following from that is if you're not comfortable picking,
obviously, individual names and you want a sort of more safer route,
quote-unquote, you know, you have funds like the iShares as well.
And do you guys also have general basket of funds as well
that you guys offer? Oh is it me? Yeah we have a Max 7 fund and we have a semiconductors industry
ETF. We have a bunch of options out there you can take a look at that. If you just want Max 7 if
you just want semiconductors which would have some of the mag 7 uh we have sliced it in a number
of different ways uh for european investors to invest into so uh the whole bunch of options uh
i'll try to put them up in the i'll try to put some links in the chat down here so that you guys
can take a look at those that would be awesome yeah if you could put that in we can pin that up there for you guys um so i know
with the european side we have uh separated etf funds there's one just for the information
technology sector um and then they have one for like the whole of europe which is more like you
know broader base if you like um yeah so there's like different types of exposures, if you like, in the ETF or ETPs.
ETPs are more individual names, just for those who are listening for the first time and wanting to invest over here.
And are there any sort of more pure power plays for AI in itself, just for the shorter term for some of these guys?
Yeah, the single stocks always play out very well.
The single stock ETPs, as you mentioned,
would be highly effective in driving potential profits in either direction.
So you guys can take a look at NDI, AMD.
Sandeep, you're breaking up there a bit.
I'm sorry.
So if you want a little more oomph over there,
you can take a look at single stock leverage plays,
which there are plenty of other things.
I don't know if it's me,
but you're breaking out a little bit.
Oh, he's okay.
Is he okay?
Yeah.
Go ahead.
I can hear him.
Okay.
You guys can hear me?
Yes, we can hear you. cool so yeah uh if you're looking for a little bit of uh impact or in your portfolios of course following the most uh
liquid names is makes more sense than a broad based investment so you're welcome to take a
look at nvidia amd palantir which frequently claims to be an ai
company but i have serious doubts as to whether it is a pure play ai company uh and if you want
to step into some of the more ascendant giants there's microsoft and google in case you guys
didn't notice gemini 3 was very gemini 3's debut was extremely successful and uh it was a high watermark for google so there are
leveraged products on google as well as well as microsoft which is sort of the infrastructure on
which a lot of computation runs ai competition runs on through it's a which provides a lot of the ai
computation infrastructure through azure so you can take a lot of bets based on whether you want to do it on the chip level or
on the infrastructure level. So if you want doing it at the infrastructure slash AI model level,
take a look at Google. And if you want to take a look at the infrastructure level,
take a look at Microsoft. And if you want to go to the chip level, there's of course AMD and NVIDIA.
and if you want to go to the chip level there's of course amd and nvidia
yeah yeah keep an eye on the google thing because it seems to be eating open eyes lunch
on a daily basis which is pretty interesting that's interesting it makes sense as you know
i mentioned earlier today from some of the headlines that Google DeepMind is investing over here, all the automated
AI research labs in the UK. So major growth there for next year and the years to come.
Just wanted to head over to Forex. What do you see as some of your favorite tech investing names?
Do you have any favorites you'd love to pick? Thank you, Sandeep.
Do you have any favorites you'd love to pick?
Thank you, Sandeep.
Favorite tech investing?
Yeah.
In the overseas space, I'm probably going to take a,
I'll probably be interested in Alibaba
because Alibaba is again an AI name.
It co-developed QEM, the AI chatbot,
the AI model that it has with American universities.
So that is a pretty interesting bet to make overseas.
Elsewhere, let's see now.
A whole bunch of Americans.
But yeah, if you're taking a look at China, you can take a look at Alibaba and Baidu.
Of course, one caveat that you must keep in mind when it comes to Chinese names is that
their ability to gain
traction outside of china is limited but on the flip side the ability of other companies entering
china is also very limited so uh essentially by sheer weight of population these are very
interesting names to keep an eye on, Alibaba
and Baidu.
And it offers a little bit of a, it offers a bit of defiscation benefit.
If you're 80% invested in American slash European AI, technically right now it's all American,
then you can afford to keep about 20% in Chinese AI for now until other alternatives appear.
Yeah, interesting thoughts. Chinese AI for now until other alternatives appear.
Yeah, interesting thoughts.
I'd love to circle that background in a moment on the exposure side as a percentage.
Forex, would you love to, you know,
share with us some names that you're possibly looking at
in the tech and AI, any stocks in particular?
Yeah, I haven't really got any stocks in mind. I'm more
looking from a broader perspective. We talked about ETFs on Tuesday, and that'll be something
I'm more interested in, just getting a broad exposure to that. But as you mentioned, also,
the fintech space is going to be hugely important, particularly in the trading world,
where we've got people who you know they're doing their
own scripts on on trading view and and python and all things like that and i think this is where ai
is really going to kick into the the trading aspect of things um but i do i do wonder if it's
going to become a bit of a zero-sum game because like most things if if everyone's doing AI to try and put a trade out,
there's only so much that every AI can get an edge on.
So I think it's going to be a bit like algo trading, machine trading we have now,
where the big money who manages to get the faster speeds working
is going to come out on top of the retail market in terms of using AI to trade per se. But
I think it's going to be a long while before, you know, I can set an AI going and disappear off on
holiday while it trades for me. But that's definitely the way things are going to be heading.
Yeah, certainly a different perspective in investing in AI. I mean, I guess with all these
tools available, do you think
there's a particular sector or maybe a stock or ticker or name that would have an exposure to
all these amazing tools that people develop on these so many different platforms?
Not off the bat, no. But I think you've got to stick with the big names first and foremost, because all the smaller names in part are going to lead off from the bigger names.
They're going to use their technology.
They're going to build out their own things based on other technology that's already there.
So it's almost like a tree system.
You have the big companies that are the roots and then you have all these other smaller companies that are going to develop out the same as we have in the crypto space, the same as we had in the dotcom space.
So if you're not someone who's as heavily knowledgeable like Sandeep is in this, then you can just stick to the bigger names and just let that feed the rest of it because they're always going to stay at the top.
And, you know, there's going to probably be a clear out at some point all the smaller companies will fade by the wayside i
think we've had um um i can't remember the name of it robin something that was doing the ai
checking legal documents that was uh all in the news a few months ago well now they're sort of
filing for bankruptcy um so we're going to see a lot of that type of thing so until
you get the the bigger companies rising to the top shall we say you need to be trading with a bit more
risk um aversion when you're when you're picking some of these smaller names yeah absolutely i think
um some of the i would say newer names that we you know, been exposed to and up and coming rising so fast in a short amount of time, it would be Palantir, I would say. What are your guys' thoughts on Palantir? I'm opening this question up to the floor here.
Sandeep, do you have any thoughts on Palantir's growth or Alex?
Oh, I'm sorry.
If nobody else has thoughts on it,
I've had plenty of thoughts of Palantir that I've published on our website
over the last couple of years.
Yes.
So again, Palantir is something of an outlier
because for all intents and purposes this
company is not supposed to be publicly listed because it cannot discuss most of the work that
it does as the majority of its work is for the government of the United States and increasingly
larger volumes of work is apparently coming from the European Union uh but yes uh Palantir
is an interesting company to make a play on because essentially the nature of the business
that it does that it is in ensures that uh business is almost always repeat it's essentially
a consulting firm of sorts that runs proprietary AI models to solve very specific
problems in a, in a, in a, in a Liam Neeson sense, if you will. So that is, that is the sort of
disquieting part that we don't get to see what exactly it does. But as it turns out, as per their
own statements, as per their own earnings results and stuff like that, it has turned out to be extremely, extremely popular.
The bulk of its stock-based compensation has essentially died out.
So every successive quarters rise in revenue has been translating to greater and greater earnings efficiency.
Revenue has been translating to greater and greater earnings efficiency.
So as a company, just as a company, it is a pretty successful one.
One can argue that it doesn't just need to be considered as an AI name,
but it isn't entirely inaccurate to call it an AI company for sure.
Thank you for your thoughts there.
Yeah, definitely.
If you guys want to follow Sandeep, he has a ton of research on those as well.
I'm sure he can break that down all for you there.
I also want to pass to Alex.
I know you have a couple of interesting names you would love to talk about.
Yeah, so BC, B-E-S-I on the Euronext Amsterdam is a pretty interesting one.
They are doing semiconductors, but they're kind of focusing on vertical stacking.
So kind of getting more chips in less of a surface area is going to be obviously important.
A lot of people have been trying to make them smaller and smaller,
People have been trying to make them smaller and smaller,
but vertical stacking is obviously also an important part of that.
And I'm looking a little bit maybe in the 120, 110 area for next year.
We'll see.
And then, of course, since I'm Swedish, I've got to represent Klarna.
So Klarna, it's a good one, starting to hold a little bit.
2026 will be its first year,
as listed on the New York Stock Exchange after the IPO
as a public company.
And their angle is essentially that they have been able
to push a lot of cost cutting and deliver profitability.
So that's essentially the kind of play there.
And same with Spotify.
Spotify has been also Swedish.
That's also been a company that just burned
through a lot of cash.
And one of those that are getting becoming profitable,
more and more profitable.
They pushed into the audio book space as well.
So those are three good ones to keep an eye on,
in my opinion.
Great stuff. I think obviously there are some payment platforms in the intact space
are not available over here and it's US-based only. So Klarna is going to be a massive push
on that. I know they certainly have been enrolling out for a lot of the shopping stuff and retail.
you know, enrolling out for a lot of the shopping stuff and retail.
That's right.
Were you throwing that question to me?
Yes, yes.
Sorry, I was going to ask with Kalana's growth.
I think my mic was muted for a sec.
You know, it's massive over here versus something like PayPal,
which I think that is a different take.
You know, what are your thoughts on the competition in the payment space,
you know, PayPal versus like Klarna?
I know SoFi is very different in the US because it's not even available over here.
We'd love to see something like that available over here as well.
What are your thoughts on this?
Yeah, I mean, if Klarna can solve that,
so for example, in Sweden,
we have like, it's kind of more like a government system
because we have, you know, the digital IDs and all that.
So we have like very simple solution for payments.
So Cash App in America is more or less like a copy
of a system that we had here for a very
long time, which is called Swish.
You just send money to the mobile number, right?
And well, if Klarna can bridge that gap where you can just, you know, where it just makes
sending payments like more seamless, especially between countries.
Obviously, that's going to be hard to beat.
They come from a country where we have a lot of experience with that.
Yeah, I think plenty of room for growth for these things,
especially if we're not earning as much as you know we had we spoke on Tuesday about
the unemployment jobs data that's massive knock-on effect in the investing you know lack of people
lack of investing is enabled because of the struggles as well we'd love to see more you know
education and growth and obviously mindset changes here in Europe for that. Having said that, I would love to sort of expand on, you know, the payments
and basically are there sort of more ETNs or ETFs that are sort of portfolio basket
into the fintech only or finance only, kind of like how we have in xlf uh in the us
sadi i'm not sure if you you guys have like a portfolio that are like different themed uh in
the tech itself uh not quite right now uh we can't provide enough for depth or you can't provide enough depth or you can't provide enough breadth right now and a lot of
these names are still private uh so we have we have been watching the space with some interest
but uh we haven't provided any products on this yet it is the nascent space and uh competition
is fierce uh there are no clear champions now even if if the champion of today might fade into irrelevance tomorrow, which oddly enough means that it's a very competitive space to get into.
So right now we don't have any commentary on this part yet on the fintech space, but we're keeping an eye on it.
Yeah, I think it's definitely very interesting how Europe is actually more on the private side, statistic wise, from what I can tell in my research. Basically, a lot of the AI startups in Europe are, you know, raised roughly 13 billion just in sort of the private sector alone, which is basically a capital that's concentrating into fewer, larger rounds.
that's concentrating into fewer in larger rounds uh so obviously a lot of the um vcs are actually
flocking over to the us um so that's why you know big names are you know the gameplay here
i would love to sort of wrap this up and sort of ask everyone what are the risks you guys see
in investing into the tech space in Europe? Debt, I think, is probably the biggest risk, particularly talking about the AI sector.
I mean, when you've got the likes of OpenAI borrowing 10 billion, is it 10 billion in
that deal this week?
Something like that.
Off of Amazon.
Yeah.
To buy Amazon chips.
I mean, how does that work? You borrow money off people to buy Amazon chips. I mean, how does that work?
You're borrowing money off people to buy their product.
It's just reading around the numbers that are involved in debt
at the moment is probably the biggest risk to AI firms
and tech in general because they're all doing the same thing
with the chips and the like.
So, yeah, that would be my risk anyway.
Do you think off the back of that if they're borrowing so much then surely there's a finance um or tech you know as we're
coming back to sort of kind of but obviously that's a retail level maybe perhaps there's more
sort of corporate level play we can invest into that yeah it's possible but again it's it's where the
big money's going um i mean everyone's hanging around for open ii obviously because you know
it's not a public company and you know we'll see what happens with an ipo um but there's obviously
big names behind it um and you know 10 billion it sounds a a lot, but it's not in the grand scheme of things.
But there is literally trillions of debt floating around.
You know when things are come to a possible head.
Sounds great. Thank you so much there for your thoughts.
Eunice, Alex, do you have any thoughts on that, on the risk play?
Where would you put your money elsewhere for de-risking, perhaps, as a hedge?
I mean, de-risking is super boring, just exposure to America.
But if you want single name plays, Europe has a lot to offer.
It doesn't have to be more complicated than that, in my opinion.
Yeah, so I think we're keeping it there simple.
Definitely, you know, having cash on hand to sort of invest into other areas,
less risk and exposure.
Sandeep, I would love to come back to just wrap it up.
I know you mentioned earlier about the percentage of risk and exposure,
you know, not too heavy in one area.
What sort of the guidelines that you feel is sort of more comfortable on the retail level there for investing?
Yeah, I mean, retail investors typically play with small amounts of money, typically under five to ten thousand euros or pounds so they're not uh considered to be
particularly risky or a particular high impact on the market but again many ants can lift mountains
uh generally speaking the guideline you must have is that whatever you're making a bet on
follow the 80 20 rule essentially if you have a bet if you have a particular conviction
uh for example in this case if you're talking about ai names and i've put a couple of products
for example in the chat that you can guys can take a look at uh if you're doing that do a little bit
of a geographical diversification for example uh if you're buying it you're putting 80 of your money here you go ahead and buy a stocks retail
uh product uh an ETF in stocks retail uh product for Europe or by if you want to keep it in the
tech space allocated is 20 to Chinese AI products uh that way you uh your concentration is diver
uh is diversified uh let's be honest if the markets are falling all
correlations go to one but some products but your other leg or your other leg of your trade
isn't as affected as your main leg that's basically the idea behind diversification
so uh it's a loss limitation strategy, not a profit making strategy.
And ideally, retail investors must look into this a little bit more closely.
It's not very difficult to do.
It just takes a little bit of discipline to sort of put into your trading sheet every day.
Say, okay, take a look at my exposure.
Maybe I need to take a, maybe I need to pull back and do a diversification exercise yeah just to elaborate sorry last minute on that is with that how often
should one adjust a portfolio for the longer term and versus a shorter term i'd say short term you
must adjust every day if you are going beyond that is the FDA the FCA tells you
that the Financial Conduct Authority tells you to do that and that's a pretty good advice to remember
uh if you're doing it in the short term in the long run you can follow what the big ETF guys do
and uh rebalance quarterly if you and when I say long term i mean in years uh if you're talking months
then at the very least please take a look at your positions uh on a weekly basis yeah absolutely so
yeah i think for the longer term always wins uh for you know statistically speaking um but i guess
with you know this whole ai and tech run it might be you know taking some profits off
the table might be a good idea and of course and on this professional financial advice I think you
know Forex has some really great points as well and Eunice like in you know the short term is
being what are the risks as well as whereas we're in this amazing bubble of growth um especially going into next year is
when does the music chair stop right uh you know we've you know been exposed to crashes before
and in the past so just do also keep that in mind it never hurts to take some profit off the table
as well um on that note i want to thank all the amazing speakers for coming on here today
please give everyone a follow and, you know,
they have some amazing work and some information.
If you guys would love to, you know,
cover any specific topics here on WolfEU in the future,
please send us a DM.
We'd love to, you know, speak about that.
As I know, Europe does not get enough coverage
in this sort of challenging area of the market.
Evan, would you have anything else you'd love to say get enough coverage in this sort of challenging area of the market.
Evan, would you have anything else you'd love to say just to wrap up here today?
Evan, are you there?
No? Okay.
I just want to say there's nothing else left for for today i want to thank you all for coming um and speaking on sort of ai we'd love to elaborate that more on i know it uses a ton
of power right um so it's very hungry and energy sort of focus and and we'll be covering that next
tuesday so do hop on for next week tuesday same same time, 7am Eastern or 12pm UK time.
And we'd love to cover a little bit more in depth in our sort of energy, where you can invest. I
know Europe has a lot of ESG and clean energy as well focus. So we can take a more in depth look
at what stocks and tickers we can look into there. And yeah, we'd love to thank you all for coming and for listening.
And today we'll be back with the show for our live trading,
our usual time, sort of at the 9.20 p.m. Eastern.
I know the markets are sort of reacting off data yesterday
and we have CPI later as well.
Do give this a like and a share.
If you'd like to come back and listen, that's also theI later as well. Do give this a like and a share if you like to come back and listen that's also the best way as well. Thank you all for
coming and have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Take it easy guys. Thank you.
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