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Telos x Aikon: Telos Cloud Wallet powered by ORE ID AMA 🎙️
Recorded: Oct. 19, 2023 Duration: 0:46:00Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hopefully you guys are hearing me.
Amazing.
Awesome.
So this is a developer AMA.
So Jesse, I'm going to let you kick it off with some intros and the general AMA for this.
Sounds great.
Sounds great.
Well, hello, everybody.
I'm Jesse, head of engineering over at Telos, and excited to have Daryl here, who is, well,
Daryl, why don't you introduce yourself from Icon?
Yeah, absolutely.
Daryl Malone, Daryl Malone, Daryl Malone, the head of developer relations at Icon.
Awesome.
Yeah.
And so at Telos, we've been working with your team at Icon for a while now to build out the Telos cloud wallet, which has been live in our EVM side, I think for maybe a couple months now.
And we're also starting to integrate it on the native side, so it's a really exciting product and I think is going to be a big factor in allowing us to capture the mainstream Web2 type folks that we all hope to see enjoying the incredible blockchain technology and all the kind of things it can give to people.
So, it's definitely a great, great opportunity for it to be a simple onboarding experience for them.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's been really good.
This is actually one of the first projects that I took on upon joining Icon was really bringing the Telos cloud wallet to life, bringing it to people.
So, yeah, it's been exciting to see this development and this growth and now this launch.
Yeah, and, you know, as we've been focusing on, you know, at Telos, we focus on a lot of stuff.
We sometimes find ourselves saying we do everything well in terms of the technology and everything, but we, you know, recently have been putting a bit of focus into gaming.
And I think that's a point where we will see, you know, no offense to gamers, I'm a gamer.
When I'm playing games, I have very little patience.
When I'm trying to write software, I have to have infinite patience because you really can't just give up.
You have to keep going until you solve the problems and build what you're building.
But when it comes to games, you know, if I'm not having fun, I'm going to switch.
I mean, and so if it's a lot of friction to start using blockchain and Web3 to play a game, I'll probably just go find another game.
So being able to use, you know, the Telos cloud wallet, which offers a social login with the PIN.
So log in with Google, we're adding more providers soon and, you know, enter a PIN that, you know, a simple four-digit PIN that you've entered before, you know, no private keys, no seed phrases, just log in like you would on any traditional Web2 app and start using the blockchain technology.
That is really a familiar experience for folks and being able to get that experience and also the benefits of digital asset ownership that you can apply to games.
You know, NFT is kind of a four-letter word over there in the gaming industry.
But, you know, having true custody of your personal digital items in-game and being able to trade them on a, you know, secondary market and all those things, being able to do it without worrying about, you know, the game publisher getting their hands into things that are really yours or, you know, messing with things behind the scenes, that's a really exciting thing.
And I think being able to onboard, you know, tens of thousands of users to Web3 without friction through gaming is definitely a possibility that we're hoping to see happen here over the next maybe six to 12 months.
One hundred percent, one hundred percent.
I think any creator, really, the exciting thing about being in that space is being able to really have people get to use the things that came out of your mind, that came out of your creativity and have fun with them and enjoy them.
And being able to let that happen in a low-fitting environment where you can have as many people as possible actually get to use the things that you create, but at the same time, allowing you to get compensated fairly, right?
And so you've got to have both pieces in place.
And I think we found a really good solution for making that happen.
Yeah.
I mean, as you know, I'm not much of an artist or a creator in that regard, but I love making software and more explicitly, I love making software that people actually use, which is why I love what I get to do at Telos and some of the things I've done in my previous careers.
You know, I've always found the most joy when people actually use, you know, what I've built.
And, you know, if you have a technology that's got a lot of friction, you're going to have a low chance of that happening.
So that's definitely, I'm sure, a similar thing for creators of all kinds that people actually are using or enjoying the content they create is really, you know, outside of financial incentives, a big factor in what people that are creatives enjoy.
So, so, yeah, let's, let's, I got, I have some questions here for you.
Good deal.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
So why don't you tell me a little bit about, you know, your personal history and maybe a little bit about Icon's history.
So like maybe what, what led you to your role here as the DevRel lead at Icon and maybe also a little bit about Icon's history, how they evolved to be, you know, kind of that, that cloud wallet provider that, that's helping us realize that dream.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I, I came into developer relations kind of in an interesting way.
I'm a self-taught software developer and I got into the crypto space through different startups that I was working on.
I was in Austin at the time and really was there for almost ground zero of a lot of the development of cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, and all of these sort of things that we work on today.
And that really gave me kind of the opportunity to really work on my communication skills because it was such a new and evolving space.
And because it was something people were so curious about and I happened to really be there when a lot of this was, was taking off, I took on a lot of communication roles, right, where I was explaining how this technology was going to impact people and how it was actually going to change the way things are done.
And that led me to a lot more developer relations roles.
I was, I was doing a lot more work around technical writing and explaining things, you know, that way I was doing public speaking around this, around this space and really kind of took my career in a new direction because I found that I had that, that ability to, to really translate and make things, elucidate things, make things accessible.
Um, so fast forward a little bit to, uh, this earlier this year, when I joined the icon team, um, I was coming out of BlockFi.
Uh, so as some of you probably know, there were some, uh, big events that happened last year with BlockFi, um, that led to a lot of people leaving the company.
Um, I was one of those, I actually left a little bit before, uh, kind of the big layoffs started happening.
And I found Icon was doing something that had always been fascinating to me, right?
They were really in the digital identity space, which for me, I think is very key to where blockchain delivers a lot of value.
Um, I was one of the early contributors to Factum, which was another digital identity, uh, technology early on and kind of got my, my feet wet in that space at that point.
Um, and I saw Icon as really a chance to dig back into that world and start to try and make a difference and, and bring this stuff to the consumers in a way that really hadn't been accomplished before.
Um, and what I really appreciated about Icon and 4ID was how simple it made the entire process.
You know, even in the places that I had worked at before, you know, we released APIs and things like that.
Um, but it was really up to the engineers to try and figure out how to make that accessible.
And there wasn't really enough being done at that point to create that cohesive experience, right?
To create an experience that is going to make it so that the average everyday person really has a relationship with these digital assets.
You know, it always kind of exists through these wallets and these plugins, and there's just all this complexity that gets thrown in there.
And Icon was really about trying to simplify that and trying to find an easy way to bring all of these people into the fold.
Um, and that was kind of the, the evolution of Icon from, you know, really the, or network itself, um, you know, creating that technology and trying to find a way to bring that technology out into the world.
Um, Icon kind of stepped into that role to be the, uh, more or less the, the business partner for the, or foundation, uh, to help with a go-to-market strategy.
Right. So Icon really focused on how do we actually take this? How do we bring it to market?
How do we create a product for developers, for engineers that makes it easy for them to leverage the, or network and connect to all of these different blockchains that are out there in a way that's just completely seamless.
Um, that's really what the genesis of 4ID was to really create a multi-chain experience that is still cohesive.
Across all of those different chains and really just fits into how an individual already knows how to interact with systems online.
You know, people know how to do the email login.
They know how to do, um, you know, the, the login with Google, with Facebook and all of these other identity providers.
Um, or ID was really looking at that existing landscape and saying, okay, can we incorporate public key encryption and asymmetric encryption into this space in a way that makes it super easy for users to interact with?
And that's what, and that's what I think we really accomplished here.
Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I've seen, I've seen a few, you know, different, uh, wallets, you know, attempt to do similar things.
Um, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's the familiarity of web two, that is the goal.
And that's, you know, why we're excited to, to be working with icon, um, because that's, what's been accomplished there.
So, um, very happy about that.
So, um, on that note, let's drill in a little bit more, uh, on, you know, the technology and what really is the, the Telos cloud wallet, the ORID solution kind of, can you explain, you know, a little bit about, um, kind of the, the ORID tech, what makes it unique?
I think you touched on that a little bit and then how, um, you know, how Telos cloud wallet is built on that.
Um, um, yeah, a little bit more specifically, you know, in, in the technical aspects of it.
Absolutely. So the, the unique aspect of the ORID interface is really that social sign-on capacity.
Um, so this ability to, as I mentioned, use your, your Google or Facebook or whatever your, uh, primary method for logging in and accessing these different services.
Uh, whether that's email, password, um, or cell phone, you know, whatever that may be.
Um, we wanted to incorporate that into existing blockchain technology stacks in a way that was really transparent to the user.
Um, very easy for them to, to interact with and see, but at the same time had all of those same markers of, uh, transparency on the other end, right?
Of being able to actually go and see, okay, where are these signatures taking place?
Where are these wallets existing and can I actually review what the assets that exist within them are?
We tie all of that together, um, without the user necessarily needing to go that deep into it to understand all of the nuts and bolts.
But if they want to do that inspection or they want to use a service that does that inspection for them, whatever the case may be, that's all available.
Now, how that happens is, is pretty, pretty elegant solution.
So we use, as I mentioned, asymmetric cryptography, um, public key encryption.
That means you have a public and private key.
You use your private key to sign something that the public key is used to validate, right?
To validate that signature.
Now, in order to avoid actually exposing that private key to anyone other than the user, we use a system called the crypto service, uh, to actually handle those signatures at runtime.
Now, what that means is for the user, they're connecting using their existing, you know, login system, whatever that may be, as well as a pin number.
And so those are the things that they're going to have in their head, uh, in order to maintain control over, you know, the security of that system, right?
They have that pin, they memorize that, they have ultimate control over how all of that gets used.
Once you input the pin, that is used to decrypt your key in the crypto service.
Now, this is an isolated service that neither Telos or Icon will ever have access to.
No, neither company will ever be able to access those private keys without the user, but the user, by giving their pin, encrypts that within the service.
And then that service, crypto service, then creates the signature to execute whatever, you know, transaction it is that you're, that you're wanting to do.
Whether that's creating an account, whether that's, you know, sending, uh, a token from one place to another, uh, sending something into a smart contract.
All of that is done through the crypto service, which kind of has a, a wall between it and both the, you know, the, the system that, that people are developing.
Telos Icon, all of that is really only under the user's control.
So you have that aspect of the control that's important in the cryptocurrency space, but at the same time, you really get that convenience.
Telos Icon Yeah, and, and, you know, when we first started talking to, to, uh, Icon about building this, um, we had talked with others, um, and, you know, we were really looking for this cloud wallet solution.
Telos Icon And some of the others that I had spoken with, I, you know, I had pretty, it's a pretty simple question and you touched on it, which is, and I asked this question when we talked to, to your team at first and using Justin as an example, because he was the one that had been using the, the ORID product before we started building the Telos cloud wallet with you.
Telos Icon Um, it was a simple question, I was like, so with, with, with the, with the very clear explanation that, you know, a four digit or a six digit pin is, is something you should expect somebody to remember, um, you know, it's much easier than a 12 word seed phrase or a private key.
Telos Icon Um, but the question is, um, but the question is like, well, what happened if Justin doesn't have his pin, you know, can, can, can, is he, is he without his, his, uh, crypto account?
Telos Icon The answer is yes, I said, okay, which means that you guys aren't, you know, in custody of it.
Telos Icon It's, it's, it's truly, uh, somewhat of a hybrid of, of self custody, um, as well, but also backed up in securely encrypted in the cloud.
Telos Icon And also backed by a second factor of, of, of, you know, a social login.
Um, so that was, it was a pretty simple question.
Telos Icon And I had been through these conversations with a couple other wallets.
Telos Icon And, you know, so I knew the question was, okay, if Justin loses his pin, does he lose his, his account?
Telos Icon And, um, you know, that told me, yes, it's, it, it, it is required.
Telos Icon It is mandatory for Justin to provide that pin without that, nobody can access his keys and nobody can sign for his account.
Telos Icon And it truly is then a, uh, uh, you know, a decentralized, you know, hybrid self custody, but cloud backed, um, solution that, that was what I really wanted to hear.
Telos Icon So I was excited to hear the design, as you just described it, um, you know, using the, uh, the secure compute, uh, kind of solution to, to protect everything as it's signed and, and requiring the user's contributions as well as the or ID social login second factor.
Telos Icon Exactly right.
Telos Icon Exactly right.
Telos Icon Yeah, that's, that's the trade off, you know, you got to take the responsibility along with that power.
Telos Icon Yeah, exactly.
Telos Icon It is a trade off, you know, it's like, you know, you talk about banks, and then you talk about crypto, like, yeah, I could walk into my bank and say, hey, I lost my ATM card, I did all this stuff.
Telos Icon And like, they can rescue me from my own mistakes and their responsibility. But they can also garnish my wages. And they can also go under and have a bank run and, you know, commingle my funds with their funds and have an oopsie. We've seen that happen, you know, in more ways than one lately in the past, what, 18 months or so. So, yeah, it's a trade off. And I think we're all here in the crypto world of
Telos Icon You know, self custody for a reason. And we've kind of chosen that trade off of like, I'd rather trust myself and be responsible myself, then relying on, you know, big conglomerate banks or third parties to do the right thing when they're involved with my money, right, or my assets. So, but yeah, it's pretty simple, you get one or the other, you can't really have both.
It's, you know, maybe we'll see some creative ways to kind of have both eventually. But yeah, so, cool. So, and, you know, maybe let's talk a little bit about what the cloud wallet means for the Telos network, right? So, as far as, and I kind of touched on it when we were first talking about what, what are some of the things that you expect, maybe that we'll see.
As we, you know, as we, you know, fully release and get more apps integrating the wallet and really make the Telos cloud wallet, one of the most available wallets on the Telos network, what kind of, kind of things maybe do you see that we potentially could, could drive value from at Telos?
You know, my hope is that we start to see that the Telos cloud wallet allows developers in the community to move into all of these broader applications and categories of business and consumer applications, right?
I think that there's been a little bit of a shortcut to the world of finance because it's such a, you know, it's such a one-to-one.
Both the idea for how you're going to, you know, make revenue and at the same time, how you manage assets kind of really maps very easily to that space.
And, you know, it works in a way that I think that has caused a lot of the energy to really go there initially.
What my hope is that with this new user interface and the ability to make things so much simpler, but still allow you to have all that functionality of the blockchain technology will really open up those, those other categories.
So you mentioned gaming. I think that's a huge, huge opportunity there where you have, again, this ability for creators to actually generate their revenue in different ways, actually entertain players in different ways, because now you have these different avenues for how a, how a player, how much control a player has over their experience.
There's already this deep world of modding and different ways that people run servers and all of these really user-generated aspects of the video game space that I think is really ripe for integration with blockchain technology in a lot of really cool ways.
So I'm really hopeful that you will see things really start to grow in that world with this new user interface.
I think there are also some really nice business applications that can be accomplished here as well.
I'll give a little bit of a kind of preview.
I saw a preview of some technology that we're working on around having a cryptographic sort of cryptographic verification of your creative work.
And I think that's something that's very, very interesting for businesses to be able to work with, and it really does rely on having great UI for creators, for people who are consuming content, to be able to access all of that and validate all of that in ways that are seamless, that don't require like a degree in computer science to try and muddle through and prove out and things like that.
So I'm really hopeful that with this new UX, we can tackle bigger and better challenges in the space, and we can really start to push the boundaries, bring more people into the fold, because it's no longer such a just intimidating environment to work within.
You have this fact that you do have to take a lot more responsibility when you're working with blockchain technologies.
And when that responsibility comes with a 12-word phrase that you have to worry about or store somewhere or be concerned about how this is all going to work out, and when you can simplify that down to a pen, which is something people are very familiar with, something that's really tried, tested, and true for being able to maintain access to things, I think that just opens the doors and just makes it so that there's so many more applications that can be accessed through this technology.
So hopefully we see that happening soon.
Allowing users to use the cloud wallet on DeFi apps or other apps on Telos, I think it's going to be really the catalyst towards really getting the community to understand and feel the value of such a frictionless, seamless Web2-like wallet experience.
So with that, maybe if you want to talk a little bit about some of the workshops that you guys are hosting for developers, kind of what they expect, what they'll get if they attend, things like that.
Yes, absolutely.
So next week, we're going to be starting our workshop series.
The first workshops are going to be around integrating the Telos wallet itself.
So this is going to be kind of a demonstration of how it all works, how you can integrate it into some software that you're building, what are the things to look out for, some other resources if you want to learn more, different patterns.
Really just try to just cover as much ground as possible for that, for that building that first app or integrating that into an existing app.
Now, the week after that, we're going to be focused on the user experience.
Obviously, we've talked a lot about how the user experience gets improved by just simplifying the way that you access your blockchain assets or blockchain transactions, contracts, whatever the case may be.
I also want to dig deeper into some of the fundamentals of user experience and really just explore what are the different things that this new pattern of interacting with blockchain technology, what does that mean for different applications and how they can now go about allowing their users to access that.
So we're going to be covering some of the fundamentals of what is user experience, what are some of the things that create friction, what are some of the things that how do you manage the different aspects of avoidance versus moving towards certain activities and understanding the psychology of users in those different spaces.
Really digging into that and, again, finding those parts of UX that are really impacted by blockchain technology specifically and just exploring how all of those contours work.
Yeah, so I definitely would encourage any apps, any developers that have an app on Telos or considering building on Telos, definitely, you know, if you have time, tune in there or, you know, find in our docs all that we have about how to integrate the cloud wallet.
Because it's pretty simple and it's straightforward enough that people shouldn't, you know, have much reason not to integrate it.
And I think it will, especially as we get more adoption of it, expose apps to a broader user base.
Absolutely.
And potentially that more entry-level user base that we're really going for with the massive onboarding of Web2 users.
Yes, and let me give you those dates as well before I forget here.
The first two workshops on the Telos wallet integration are going to be on the 24th of October and the 26th of October next week.
I'm going to tell you in central time, so convert as needed.
I think this was listed in London time, if I remember correctly.
So this is a central U.S. time.
That's going to be 12.45 on Tuesday, the 24th, and 1.45 on Thursday, the 26th.
The following week, we're going to have two more workshops on user experience.
That's going to be Tuesday, the 31st, and Thursday, the 2nd.
And again, that's 12.45 central time and 1.45 central time for that second one.
So, yeah, we'd love to see you guys there.
There should be some links around for you to register.
And, yeah, we'll be looking forward to getting some direct one-on-one, being able to engage and help people integrate these into their systems.
Yeah, definitely.
And then to kind of pile on with the technical app integration kind of stuff, there's some new features coming out that we should talk about.
So, you know, Wallet Connect 2.0, WarpKit as kind of a couple, EVM or native Antelope kind of integration protocols or libraries.
And then also key export, which I think is a really exciting one that I'd love to, you know, just kind of touch on what those mean for developers and for users.
Yes, definitely.
So, the idea behind these features coming out is just to provide many, many easy ways for developers to add this tooling into their product.
So, I'll just touch on Wallet Connect just for a moment.
That's just something that's pretty ubiquitous in the space, right?
It's an existing integration pattern for people to plug in just various types of blockchain wallets into whatever application that they're working on.
So, we basically want to make it easy for all of that to take place by just enabling someone who already understands that pattern or if there are already existing, you know, packages or things like that, that you can just plug that in, plug in the different values for ORID and Telos Cloud Wallet and you're good to go, right?
So, it just makes it as simple as possible to integrate across all of these different areas.
Now, key export is a little bit different.
That's a little bit of a special case.
This is actually a feature that will allow users to really take control over their wallet.
When I say key export, I'm talking about exporting the private keys, right?
So, this enables a user to go through the interface on ORID, access their account, see which wallets they have, and then they will have the option if they choose to export their key from crypto service and from the ORID ecosystem and import that, you know, into whatever wallet or wherever they want to do that.
What will happen is you'll go through, again, that process where you're inputting your PIN number in order to de-grip that key.
That key is then sent to you, and it's at that point removed from the ORID system, right?
You will now have total control over that wallet and that key to do with what you will.
So, you can import that into, you know, whatever wallet of your choice and now move forward with that new wallet.
Obviously, you're still able to create, you know, new accounts and everything like that if you want to get back into the Telos Cloud Wallet ecosystem.
But that particular key is now yours to do with as you wish, which we think is really important.
Again, for us, it's all about transparency, enabling the user to have ultimate control over their assets.
And just because you create something within, you know, our ecosystem doesn't mean that you need to necessarily be married to us, you know, for all of eternity.
You have the freedom to do, you know, to do with that what you will.
So, one thing I will note about that is that if there's any promotional value that was tied to that wallet, that you will have to cover in order to export that wallet.
So, if you, like, got a bunch of free tokens or something like that through the system, if there are future, you know, programs that we do along those lines, that will have to be covered.
And that's just to make sure that we don't have, you know, any economic incentives to just spawn a bunch of cash and then run off with it.
But generally speaking, you know, you have control over what you want to do with that wallet as long as, you know, there's no economic exploits going on.
So, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And that's definitely a big consideration for users is their ability to, you know, take complete self-custody if they choose.
It's, you know, it's all about that freedom that, you know, blockchain and the spirit of it all.
Absolutely.
So, that'll be a great feature to have.
Well, before we close out, you know, a couple other things to talk about.
So, first of all, can you talk a little bit about, like, what's next on the horizon for ICON in terms of is there anything exciting?
I don't know if you guys have a public roadmap or if there's anything you can share, you know, about, you know, things short or long term that you're excited about at ICON.
Yeah, you know, I think we're going to be creating more along the way of workshops and trying to make sure that there are kind of a full complement of different educational materials out there for people who are interested in developing in the ecosystem.
We want to make sure that we support that so we're going to be releasing, you know, different content and different tools to make a lot of that much easier.
So, be on the lookout for that.
As far as other things on the roadmap, you know, ICON is really invested in the world of digital identity and making digital identity something that's accessible to people all over the world, regardless of their level of technical aptitude, regardless of, you know, the various things that may prevent them from being able to have access to these technologies.
Or use, you know, or use, you know, different services on the internet.
Really, our goal is to provide as much of the kind of lubricant as possible for these processes so that these services really become accessible to people who are outside of the really technical world that we live in, right?
There's absolutely no reason, for example, that someone who is trying to access, you know, trying to play video games and maybe they're needing to access a game that is, you know, age-gated or something along those lines.
There should be a digital identity that you can use to be able to prove that you should have access to these various things, right?
There should be ways that you can leverage digital identity to maintain, you know, your ownership of different assets as you move across country borders and things like that.
All of these things are areas that we're looking at to be able to be able to create improvements, to be able to create just easier methods for different people who are in the space to have access to these various technologies, these various patterns of doing things.
And do that in a way that really respects their individuality, their privacy, and their desire to maintain control over how they interact with the world and how much of their data they share with the world at the same time.
So we're always looking for ways that we can make that process easier and bring those solutions to developers so that all of you guys can make better and better products.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's, I mean, that's an exciting thing for me, you know, I'm in the United States, we don't have digital identity.
I've learned a bit about it, not a lot, but, you know, I've met with some folks in Europe where they have digital identities, you know, sanctioned by governments.
And, you know, it's exciting, you know, to think about, you know, having access to that type of technology, you know, whether it's government backed and sanctioned or just at, you know, on a blockchain and without borders, just the whole concept of a digital identity is a really interesting one.
And obviously, it's happening, it's happening, it's coming. It's just, it's not a matter of if, but when, and how, and also, you know, how much privacy, you know, how much self-management, self-custody, how much sovereignty do you have, versus, you know, how much of it is forced upon you.
So, you know, we'll all probably have many digital identities at some point, you know, a decade from now.
But, but yeah, it's really exciting to start thinking about.
100%.
Like, how much longer, like, how much longer am I going to need a piece of paper that some, somebody gave to my parents the day I was born, you know, when I want to get a passport, right?
Can we evolve past that a little bit? Can we, can we move a little bit further here?
You know, hopefully we're, we're really starting to make some progress in that space.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, I think, you know, we're coming close to here, our time, and, and I think this has been really great.
Anything else that you want to add, you know, interject or, or ask me about anything we're doing at TELUS, anything you got?
Or anybody in the crowd?
You know, I, I really want to, to again, implore people, definitely come and check out the, the workshops that we're hosting.
I would love to see what different people are working on in the space.
And, you know, if you have any, any suggestions, any, any feedback, any ideas for things that can be done better, please let us know.
So, I'm definitely always looking to understand what the community is looking for.
I'm always trying to get a feel for what are the new trends, what are the new areas that are, that are really ripe for development and innovation.
So, you know, very much have an open door, and we'd love to hear from all of you guys in the, in the various ways, you know, whether that's on Twitter, we've got some Telegram groups, or again, by visiting us in our workshops, we'd love to see you guys.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and I'll just pile on and say the same thing.
Anybody that's out there looking to build on TELUS with the cloud wallet or otherwise, you know, just reach out.
We, you know, that's one thing I really like about the Icon team, as well as, you know, very receptive and open.
You know, I'm like, there's a good amount of projects in crypto that you just can't even get ahold of them.
Nobody picks up the phone, you know, so it's an important thing for us in our culture at TELUS that we have people that are, you know, available and present to help people, because that's the only way we're going to get, get to our goal.
So yeah, definitely, if you if you want to learn about the cloud wallet, we have a lot of great documentation on our docs site. And there's a wealth of information, as Daryl mentioned, coming with the, the workshops and everything else. So do tune into those and do reach out if you have any questions or, or interest in building or adding TELUS cloud wallet to your app.
So with that, I think we'll close it. I want to thank you, Daryl, for, for joining us today and looking forward to a lot of, a lot of the stuff we talked about here today, coming to fruition.
Absolutely, Jesse, it was a pleasure.
All right. Thanks, everybody. Have a excellent rest of your Thursday or maybe Friday, depending where you're at.
