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TeraHash: The Bitcoin Yield Layer Unlocking Global Access to Bitcoin🎙️
Recorded: Sept. 17, 2025 Duration: 1:32:10Space Recording
Short Summary
TerraHash is set to revolutionize Bitcoin yield generation with its innovative dual-token system, allowing users to earn daily Bitcoin rewards. The project, in partnership with MobyMedia, aims to democratize access to Bitcoin mining, targeting millions of users and promising significant growth in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. all right everyone how are ya we got hunter up on stage got mr. day trader
Steve we got the Terra hash account I am excited for this special episode of the aquarium
hunter testing one two mic check Mike is loud and clear you sound good but how do
I sound you sound great I'm just hoping there isn't too much background noise I'm
at a I'm at a coffee shop here and so no you're good that's literally me 24-7 and
that's exactly where i was just a few
minutes ago getting my pumpkin spice latte as usual every day has been like this has been one
of the busiest years ever and i know i say that every year but like the more i'm in this industry
it continues to just get like crazier because more and more exciting things are being developed and
now like with ai like projects are coming up out of nowhere that are quite
powerful and interesting. And there's so much happening, I would say the space is evolving
quick. Plus, it's also a like a bull market, and soon to be probably one of the biggest bull runs
that we've ever seen. So I'm actually very excited for not just like this space in general, like the
project that we're about to talk about, which is Terahash. But for everything within this industry, I am just bullish overall for like the future of Bitcoin,
the future of all these different like protocols that are launching.
There's so much great, I want to say like competition in the space for like cool innovation
and just like great things coming out.
And I know you do these spaces all the time.
So I guess before we even deep dive into Terahash and i'll do like an intro about myself
i just wanted to uh i guess for everybody that's tuning in now if you wanted to do like a quick
intro about mobi media who it is like like let's say you yourself know what you do in space and i
think you know this is this is again, a special episode of The Aquarium.
So we usually have our Socratic-style discussions at this hour on Wednesdays.
We used to have them at 4 p.m. UTC.
And I decided why not combine forces with TerraHash
and talk about some of the cool things they're building.
of the some of the cool things they're building but yeah for just a quick
But, yeah, for just a quick summary,
summary MobyMedia is a web 3 media group that initially started as whale
coin talk we transitioned over to MobyMedia just to have a more generic
sounding name for lack of a better term and one that could focus on other
industries as they overlap with crypto so So AI obviously being one of them, Hunter, you just mentioned,
as well as fintech and gaming.
So I would say the majority of our content still revolves around crypto,
although we do have a weekly AI show on Tuesdays at 4.30 p.m. UTC.
And we are having a lot more discussions around AI tools and AI agents and not just
kind of AI and its symbiotic relationship with crypto but AI and how it's changing the lives
of people on a daily basis and funnily enough that show is getting more engagement and getting more listeners.
We have about 300 people in here right now, but that one's getting more than 500.
So I think it's a more interesting topic and it's a topic that a lot more people can relate to.
But anyway, that's kind of who we are and what we do.
We have a Telegram channel where we started.
That's at about 25,000 members. So feel free to join the Whalecoin Talk community and ask any questions you have about
crypto. YouTube channel as well at about 20,000. And we're slowly working on growing our Instagram
account. So if you're on Instagram, I'm not a big fan of Instagram, but we feel the need to start building a presence there. So if you want to go and follow Moby
Talks on Instagram, we would deeply appreciate it. Anyway, I want to not talk too much about,
we don't, again, typically do these kinds of intros on Moby Media. I don't want to talk too
much about us. I want to learn more about Terra and please guys retweet the space retweet the space drop a comment
and i'm going to get as many people in here as we can so let's do it yeah let's get some intros for
the um from the other speakers and then we can dive into terra hash and what solution you guys
are providing yeah let's definitely do it and then i guess one other TerraHash and what solution you guys are providing.
Yeah, let's definitely do it.
And then I guess one other quick thing is, yeah, I've known NOAA and Moby Media for a little while now.
Ever since I even, like before I became full-time with TerraHash,
I was one of the top senior ecosystem development managers of Tron.
So every month I was always in a new country,
attending all the different major crypto conferences like Token 2049 in Singapore, Consen in Texas, but now it's like in Hong Kong or in Canada, Bitcoin Miami, then Bitcoin Vegas.
These conferences are always moving all over, and I always saw Noah and Moby Media at every single event.
And he's always going around, one of the top three Twitter space hosts.
He's always so energized, always motivated.
He hosts some of the top three Twitter space hosts. He's always so energized, always motivated. He hosts some of the best spaces.
So I'm a huge fan of MobiMedia, and I'm very proud and glad that
TerraHash's very first X space is actually with you guys.
So excited for that and excited to unveil what TerraHash is all about.
I know that there's been other protocols and projects and things that have attempted this,
but this is actually going to be the one true entity that can
actually do it successfully. And we'll get into why later on within the space. But yeah, my
background within, I guess, in the industry as a whole, I've been in the space for 10 years.
I've seen a lot of projects come and go, and I've seen a lot of projects that are pretty much a lot
of things within the industry, and everybody can kind of agree. It's like if it's a meme project,
it's kind of like just a copycat of something else.
A lot of things exist, but they're just hype.
There's no real like product or service.
It's just everyone's trying to fight for attention and hope that that attention works,
but it's not really sustainable.
Most projects that exist within the industry don't really have a purpose.
It's kind of just a thing and people try and get good communities around it.
So I've been on the hunt for many years looking for something that can actually provide real-world
value, make a difference, and actually can provide, I guess, just something of value more than just
like returns, but like an environment and an ecosystem and something that can be more than
just a copycat of something else. And TeraHash is one
of the very few protocols that it's actually doing it. It does it very well. But yeah, I guess just
going right into everything is, so yeah, that's me, Hunter, been in this space for like 10 years,
was on Tron for a long time, now full-time TeraHash, a recent position. And I, also one thing
to reference is a lot of other protocols for years have been reaching out to me, trying to get me to join their team, whether it be Uniswap, Polkadot, SWE, a whole bunch of other chains, L1s, L2s, many of them.
And I've turned them down for years because I've always been focused on, at the time, just the Tron community because I wanted to make stable coins go global and pretty much just bring mass adoption.
It really was like tied into that vision.
But when I was approached by the TerraHash team and they kind of showed me what it is that they're working on,
I'm like, wait a minute, this is like directly related to Bitcoin.
Most projects are just like altcoins and a protocol and hoping to bring interest around it.
But everybody within crypto as a whole, everybody loves Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin is obviously king.
Bitcoin is like the main thing that the countries,
I say literally it's like the next space race.
So in the past, like countries are fighting to get to the moon in real life.
And now it's like another space race to the moon by trying to buy the most Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin is highly powerful.
And this is now terahash.
It's called the Bitcoin yield layer.
And what it's doing is something
that's never been done before.
I think it can only be done now
because of the team that's behind it
and because of the protocol, the way it's built
and because of just the potential.
It's literally unbelievable. But I guess I will let some of the other speakers that are here, built, and because of just the potential, it's literally unbelievable.
But I guess I will let some of the other speakers that are here, we have his name is DayTrader Steve.
We have our CEO as well, which is Steve Gutterman.
We have one of our protocol developers.
He's under, like, speaking through the Terahatchit cut right now.
So I guess I will let real quick, if you want Steve Gutterman, if you'd like to unmute and speak, just do an intro about yourself.
And then we can get all the other team members to say hi and then give their input and tell the world what is Terahash.
Guys, I can see Steve has just made a Twitter account.
So let's throw in some followers.
You literally just did.
Let's throw in some followers.
Yes, I did.
Let's get that ratio up for him.
Steve, how are you doing today, sir?
You got this. I did. I just did. Actually, you want to know something?
I think I have had it for a long time, but I am embarrassed to say that I have not used it.
So I'm committed now to start using it. And yes, that would be, that would be nice. I think as of about an hour ago,
I was following zero people and I was being followed by zero people.
So only one way to go from, from there, I suppose.
Anyway, so listen, thanks everybody for, for joining in.
Thanks a hundred for, for teeing it up.
So just a brief word on me.
I've spent 30 years trying to zig when other companies and people have zagged.
And that sometimes has worked out well and sometimes not as well.
I've led companies now for about 30 years.
I was with E-Trade for a long time.
I was in private equity, market research, brought one of the larger cannabis companies in the country public,
and then had been in crypto for several years and was the CEO of a company called Griffin.
We merged with another company called American Bitcoin,
which if you follow crypto, you've probably heard of.
And that transaction happened last week.
And so I've been very excited to watch the development from afar
from afar and now as a part of the TerraHash team.
and now as a part of the TerraHash team.
And fundamentally, what we're doing here
is we're trying to solve a couple of things
that have to this point not been solved
and have not been solvable.
The first is DeFi yields.
DeFi as a proposition, obviously, increasing in popularity, increasing in importance in the global financial ecosystem.
But if you look at the DeFi yields that you can get as an investor, they're not great. They're just not great.
So number one, how do we boost that? And number two, mining is really not accessible to the average investor.
It's not accessible to a retail investor, a family office, an institution, because it's really hard to do, right? You got to,
let's say I, as a person wanted to mine, I'd have to find a machine and then I'd have to,
I'd have to figure out how to get it to my house or wherever I was going to host it. And then I would have to figure out how to power
it. And I'd have to figure out how to maintenance it. And I'd have to, I mean, there's so many
things that make that part of the Bitcoin mining universe inaccessible to the individual that really we kind of feel like it's been locked.
So the whole idea behind Terahash is how do you, number one, create outsized DeFi yields?
And number two, how do you do that in a way where we can make Bitcoin mining, which has historically been a very profitable venture,
accessible to the retail institutional token holder. And so with that, I think I will,
I'll probably stop talking and maybe turn it over to my colleague, David.
David, you want to kind of walk through the mechanics of how this works?
Yeah, sure.
I'm happy to go through that.
I can give a bit of a background on my end as well.
So David Westrop here, the CTO.
On my end, my background is for the last four companies, Bitcoin mining.
Prior to that was on-chain data analytics.
And then before that was like boring back office mathematical finance.
So yeah, Steve, I think he hit the nail on the head for a lot of things that are kind of lacking or that have come to fruition in the last little while that have stayed for this nicely.
On our end, we're a team of miners and tradfi experts that saw a good opportunity here to combine all of this and basically make what Steve was talking about much more accessible.
And we'll happily nerd out about this a little bit more in detail later on, but I'll keep it short and sweet so I can hand it over to our other Steve for his intro.
On our end, we saw that just how inaccessible this was and there are all the tools in place and the rails
set up so that we could make this accessible for everybody.
So you're not running around finding a 10-year-old S9 that you're going to slot into your garage
and make 18 cents a day, or a nerd miner pickaxe that sits in your closet that doesn't really
do anything here.
What's happening is you're capturing industrial scale mining, kind of like Steve was
mentioning there. These things work on a conducive scale. And you're getting the economics of that
without having to know how to set up a 30 megawatt data center and worry about what happens when
all of your breakers blow or you get a heat wave and everything over spikes and all your hash boards
go into panic mode. And so how that's happening is we are tokenizing hash rate
at an on-par level with the THS token.
And then anything that isn't staked in there,
those rewards are still being earned.
Those are still being mined because that hash rate is real
and does exist.
And so then everything beyond what's being staked
is then redistributed as well to the hash holders
that also have a say in how the protocol works
and it's our governance token.
Again, happy to nerd more on that in a little bit,
but I'll turn it over to our other Steve as well
for his address.
Yeah, thanks very much, David.
So Steve number two here,
basically following up as the second Steve, on as the director of sales for TerraHash.
So my brief background in crypto is really starting my exposure around the 2019-2020 bull run.
And my first experience was all based in trading.
Obviously, as the handle says, DayTrader Steve, you know, spent five years just
absolutely down the rabbit hole as far as you could go learning how to trade these markets.
And back in 2023, it was approached by another company called GoMining, which some of you may
be familiar with, especially in the NFT space, which was, was you know trying to push into the north american markets
with you know i won't say an exactly similar premise but they were essentially tokenizing
hash rate um with nfts so i was responsible for the go-to-market strategy with that company
um was with them just under two years and learned just an insane amount about the Bitcoin mining industry as a whole and
all of the requirements and technical barriers that this type of infrastructure requires.
So I was introduced to the TerraHash team about three months ago and just absolutely
fell in love with the value proposition that they're delivering here.
As David's mentioning, we're going to nerd out quite in depth about it moving forward here. But
I really do think that the experience I gained from engaging with a company like GoMining is
really what leads me to feel so bullish, for lack of a better term, on Terahash and what we're distributing here.
Okay, so let's just dive into nerding out because I love getting into nuts and bolts.
And from my understanding, you guys are providing a solution where holders of the hash token
are earning yield via exposure to miners?
Yes or no, am I correct so far before I follow up?
The classic engineering answer is, it depends.
No, yes and no. It's a dual token platform.
THS is the actual token that represents exactly one terahash equivalent of mining power.
And so you stake THS tokens are the ones that are going to be earning you main Bitcoin yield.
Your hash tokens, you can stake it.
So one THS is the equivalent to one terahash every time we have somebody mint that.
How do you guarantee that?
Oh, yeah, that's a great question.
So on our end, we're acquiring on-rack machines at a surplus
because obviously we don't know if somebody's going to come in
and want to buy six terahash,
and we don't have an S9 laying around a plugin for them
and the economics of that wouldn't be great.
So we're going to market with our partners
that we've built up over the last couple of years in this industry
and finding on-rack machines that these miners are looking to then hedge their OPEX for.
And so these machines are ready then to be converted over
to THS tokens whenever somebody's ready to mint.
So if you want to take
what wouldn't be a full machine's equivalent of hash rate,
it's there and ready to go.
But if it's not, it's at the ready for when it is.
Were the machines plugged in?
Those are all currently US-S. based. They're
diversified across the states just because it's not good to put all machines in one site. You can
get curtailment or storms or things like that. But as of right now, all machines are U.S. landed.
Also, one other very important thing, I guess, to mention on that, because we're actually trying
to avoid before, I guess, our partner will do like a big press release and public announcements going to be like Forbes
and articles and even Steve Gutterman he's going to go on like CNBC or like a TV channel soon and
like speak about everything in his previous role and position and then now he's CEO of Terahash
but without mentioning like who that partner's name is until we can do the official announcement
yes it's's institutional grade.
It's these massive entities that are some of the largest, if not the world's largest, Bitcoin mining providers that provides the equipment.
multi hundred million dollar like deal that we're working on they're going to be the ones that's
going to make sure that ths uh the token is like pegged to the actual like hash rate of bitcoin to
then be able to make it so not only is it pegged but it's fully audited it's fully completely backed
uh it's ultra liquid like there's no lockup periods it's not going to be like other protocols
where you have to buy and then you stake and then
you freeze and there's no hard there's no hardware so like terahatch itself it's not a mining company
it's not a mining entity it's just doing what lido or lido however you pronounce it what that
did for ethereum we are now doing that for bitcoin i see um do you guys know what the average cost per kilowatt hour is across all of your
mining facilities? The cost of electricity? Currently right now it's wrapped into both
electricity and O&M and everything sits under seven cents a kilowatt hour for included maintenance.
What was the latter?
Onem, you said?
Yeah, operations and maintenance.
So not only do you have the machine sat on a shelf consuming power, but for those of you sitting at home who have no idea what any of this means,
there is like a shoebox-sized computer sat on a shelf somewhere,
and they're fussy little things.
Fans go down on them.
You got to do reboots. You got to do reboots.
You got to do firmware upgrades.
So there are people that are managing this
digital infrastructure, and that's built into the cost.
Got it.
I understand.
Great.
So you have these miners running,
and then the Bitcoin mind is either,
is first going towards operating expenses
and then the delta is going towards the token holders?
Yeah, so we take a small portion
that is outlined in the protocol fees
for exactly that to cover the cost of the O&M
and electrical, like you had mentioned,
and then the rest is distributed out to token holders.
So token holders receive their equivalent THS tokens multiplied into the hash price, less fees.
And then the only other thing that I think we kind of did skip over earlier
when you were asking about THS tokens, the one-to-one pairing,
I mean, we have that hash rate on reserve,
but we're also putting that on chain to start.
It'll be oracled and audited, but we have some exciting plans for the future on how
we can kind of bake in more Bitcoin native ways to solve for that.
Right on.
Another thing that's also super important to mention is that the daily rewards or the
daily yield that you're getting through staking like hash
and THS is just in wrapped Bitcoin. So you're getting daily, which is completely liquid that
you can sell at any point in time. It's not like you're like staking it and then you're getting
like more hash tokens or more THS. You're literally getting wrapped Bitcoin, which is tied one-to-one
with Bitcoin itself every day. And then you can just claim your Bitcoin rewards
and convert it into normal Bitcoin
or leave it in wrapped Bitcoin if you want
and play with it on the Ethereum blockchain.
But by doing it this way,
makes it the most scalable, efficient,
fast and easy and cheap transactions.
But yeah, anybody that's within the TeraHash ecosystem,
they can stake.
And now without having to worry about the hardware
or the electricity costs or the maintenance or literally anything
That comes with the cost of mining. You are now able to just acquire
THS it's a dual token system
so just basically acquire any token within the Terra hash ecosystem and
Stake it you can unstake whenever you want, but as long as it's staked you're just generating daily bitcoin without having to worry about any of the cost and guys i'm sure you've done thorough competitor analysis and i spoke
with hunter about this offline but there's a company called minto and i believe they sit on bsc
and i work we worked with them last year and the year before here and there they seem to be doing
something similar their mining operation is I believe in Russia but it's a
similar concept where you hold and you stake the Minto token and you have the
option of either getting more Minto or getting wrapped BTC so what do you got I
guess how are you guys different from Intel apart from being on Ethereum?
Steve, you want to take first pass at that one, not Steve G, but other Steve.
I know you've been in the main world of how we stacked up to competitors.
world of how we stack up to competitors, I'm happy to take a pass as well.
I'm happy to take a pass as well.
Yeah, for sure. Am I correct in thinking Minto as in the Canadian real estate company or a
different protocol? No, no, no. They essentially have a mining operation in some part of Russia,
and they're doing the same thing that you guys are, right?
They have these miners,
they take operation costs and a fee,
and then Delta goes to token holders.
Yeah, the website is mento.finance,
and I think they do...
Yeah, them. That's the one, Steve.
Yeah, I mean, I'd have to look a little deeper, of course.
I mean, I don't want to speak on something I'm not supremely familiar with.
But first of all, I mean, just one red flag I want to point out is you say Russian data center operations, there's risk profile to that immediately.
TerraHash is all U.S US soil data centers operations. So just purely from a regulatory framework,
you know, when it comes to putting your money into an investment,
you want it to be a sound investment.
You want it to be something that is passing regulatory environments.
So, yeah, that would be my first kind of red flag that I'm looking at.
We can dive kind of into maybe their metrics and technicals a little deeper if anyone has them off the top of their head.
No, I don't think we need to focus too much on them.
I was just curious if you guys had heard of them.
Maybe we can do a competitor analysis on a future Twitter space, when we have more content oh totally no
that sounds super cool what we're really waiting for like there's so much we're holding back from
from even announcing on this space and we're even like debating on having steve gutterman who's a
ceo like speak on this one because we wanted to do some very big announcements with like forbes
and all these other exciting press releases soon to really showcase his history and everything like he's worked on in the past and
why now is the best time for terahash to exist like the team really is getting in this protocol
like it's being built for a while there's actually uh like a game that was utilized and built to kind
of like teach people about terahash and onboarded i think a couple million users already which is
going to be excited about the ecosystem.
So whenever the protocol fully goes live, it's not going live with no users.
It's going to go live with potentially millions of users on day one that are going to be able to access the ecosystem
to stake their THS and their hash tokens and to generate this Bitcoin yield.
We're literally calling it the Bitcoin yield layer.
And the team has been
reaching out to some of the best people in the industry, whether it be like Bitcoin mining
experts or Steve Gutterman, and I'll have him come up again and speak in a minute more about
his past experience and like why he's the CEO now of TerraHash and his vision. But see how some of
the best people from all the other like top protocols are coming together to really make this work.
Whether they're professional big mining entities, or like myself, I came from Tron.
There's a lot of some great team members.
But Steve Gutterman, if you wanted to come up real quick, I know some new people joined in on the call.
I think it would be great for you to just mention more about your bio in general, because it's quite powerful.
Maybe I could set the stage
before you dive into it, Steve.
Just one last thing
that preps you nicely for this
and to answer your question, Bobby.
And I could be off base here,
but from my understanding,
Minto is largely looking at this
as a fractionalized ownership of mining
and they're tokenizing and distributing that.
On the terahash end,
and Steve, you can speak to this better than I can,
the goal is actually mostly to expose that yield on DeFi,
as opposed to looking at it as a mining product
that sits as a miner on DeFi Rails,
is actually just unlocking that yield
and exposing that to DeFi instead of looking at it
as a miner that you then own a portion of.
But anyway, Steve, please, you can do that on that.
That's right, David. That's actually exactly
what I was going to say. I think it's important to understand that at our heart, we are a Web3
company that is providing outsized DeFi yields to token holders. And so the mechanism that we will use to unlock mining yields may change over time.
I mean, to start, we are talking about acquiring machines at facilities with some incredible partners. Over time, that may become a synthetic arrangement with some of our partners where we
are buying machines in, sorry, hash rate in lieu of machines. The important part is that we have the kind of Web3 technology to make these transactions happen and for them to be seamless
to our token holders. So when I said at the beginning of the podcast that typically I'd
like to zig when the industry has zagged. That's what I mean.
So for example, I was at E-Trade for a long time.
And E-Trade, for those of you who are not familiar,
was one of the first online financial services companies.
And we asked a real simple question.
And we were like, hey, why is it that it costs $300 and going to this intermediary called a broker to execute a simple trade to buy 15 shares of Microsoft?
Why is that?
That seems super outdated. And similarly, on the banking side, we would say, hey, why is it that as a consumer, I'm paying for really expensive brick and mortar branches when I don't have to pay for the marble columns and I can just
get the benefit of being with a trusted financial services partner, but without the outdated bells
and whistles. Same thing here, right? We know that number one, there's an issue because token
holders have not gotten the yields in DeFi that they otherwise might. Number two, we know that Bitcoin as a, let's
just talk about Bitcoin itself. We know Bitcoin is going to increase. We don't know, I guess,
right? But I would imagine all of us on this call believe that Bitcoin is going to increase in value
over time, right? So I personally think that Bitcoin will be worth a million dollars.
Each Bitcoin will be worth a million dollars. But here's the thing. I don't know when that's
going to happen. Right. And so even though I think that within a reasonable period of time
that will happen, I'm not quite sure next month whether Bitcoin will be at 80 or 85 or 105 or 110 or 120.
And that's a problem, right?
So unless you're a really long-term holder, that's a problem.
But if you want consistent yields,
if you are a DeFi-oriented, yield-oriented token holder,
that may not work for you.
You may want exposure to Bitcoin,
but you may want to do it in an interesting way. And so having a Web3 enabled token that allows you to get yield on a consistent
basis becomes a game changer. And so for us, for me, for everybody on the team, we're really committed to finding ways that we can address issues for customers that haven't been addressed before in ways that haven't been addressed before. produce outsized DeFi yields for a universe of token holders that have gotten used to
5%, 10%, 12% yields? How can we do substantially better? And that's what we've done here.
Very well said. And then one thing is I personally completely agree, just Bitcoin in general,
no matter what, not financial advice, we always have to say that regardless just for, I guess, compliance reasons.
But I truly believe that the industry is going to continue to be.
It's worth like, what, $4 trillion in total right now, the market cap of the entire industry.
But Bitcoin is going to continue to go.
I think maybe by 2030 it'll hit a million.
I'm excited for the future.
In 2022 and in 2023, we always say nfa on our spaces but the one thing that i will
never say nfa on is bitcoin i said it i thought i love that i love that this is financial advice
you should have i literally see so many people saying i'm not a financial advisor but if you're
listening you should have exposure to bitcoin it's it's you
really should i don't understand i don't understand how you know i i i'm not trying to go on a tangent
but i keep meeting i tweeted about this on my personal account i keep running into people that
work for big companies in the industry and i ask them if they own any crypto and they're like yeah
i just took a few thousand dollars worth of ethereum and bitcoin and it's mind-boggling to
me that people that work in the industry especially for these bigger companies don't own much crypto and they're like, ah, just a few thousand dollars worth of Ethereum and Bitcoin. And it's mind boggling to me
that people that work in the industry,
especially for these bigger companies,
don't own much crypto at all.
But anyway, look,
Taco's had his hand up for a while.
He always comes in with great questions.
Joey Taco's the best.
He can, yeah, anything you want.
Guys, this is a special episode of The Aquarium.
We are hosting TerraHash,
the spaces brought to you by TerraHash.
Please follow all the speakers.
Please follow the Moby Media account. Please follow all the speakers.
Please follow the Moby media account.
Please retweet the space.
Deeply appreciate it.
Taco.
What's going on,
my brother.
TM GM.
Yeah,
Noah, thank you so much for inviting me up Hunter.
Great to see you as always.
I hope I see you in,
Korea or in Singapore.
I'm so glad to see you on this base.
You're literally one of my most favorite people in the industry.
So that's awesome that you came up to speak on TerraHash.
It's our very first one.
But any questions you have, comments, statements, anything, take it away.
So I'll go down the list.
And so I'm going to have some bullet questions before I sort of get into a deeper dive of questions.
So you said a dual token system, T what is the other ticker hash hash and so is it i'm buying hash and burning
that to earn ths or i'm buying it and converting it to ths or what's that what's that conversion
rate there so not a conversion or one over the other,
but David, if you're on and able to explain
the reason for the dual token system
and why they complement each other.
Yeah, so both tokens are often available.
The hash token has a 21 million fixed count.
And what you might have said,
if you've gone through any of the white paper stuff,
or you may see that like burn reading, is the protocol itself intends to use surplus to purchase
hash itself and then burn said hash. So that hash token is the utility and governance token of the
platform. If you stake that, you're then also accessing additional rewards that'll then loop
back to your THS token is the one that out of the gate you're minting. And that's the equivalent to
one terahash per token. So say you want to come in right now. I don't know if token is the one that out of the gate you're minting and that's the equivalent to one terahash per token.
So say you want to come in right now.
I don't know if I'm the one that rugged.
No, I can hear him.
Oh, okay. I'm still coming through.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, everyone has these going strong.
Okay.
It could just be Taco.
Wait, who can't hear you right now
all good everything's coming okay it could just be taco's microphone he's literally he goes i'm
gonna drop and come right back because i think i rubbed and i totally missed your answer on that
steve on terahash that's okay do your thing if you can hear us and then come right back. But for people that don't know Taco, he literally goes to every – like if you see him, it's insane like what he has.
It's like he goes to every conference everywhere in the world nonstop, and he never takes off his like entry badges.
So he is a big guy, but he walks around with like 100 or more conference badges on his neck.
He's got all the badges on his wrist.
He goes to all the influencer parties.
He like interviews like, like high profile people.
He goes everywhere.
So him, like he's great to have.
And he's very smart.
He's literally one of the smartest people ever.
So I'll probably reach out to him and see if he wants to,
let's say help Tara hash in the future,
just as an advisor, because he's a great guy.
And I'm so glad he came up to like speak. But yes, whenever he comes back, we can see if we can answer that question.
He probably has some really good ones that we could potentially answer. But yes, Terahash is
a dual token system. There's both THS and hash itself. The THS is tied directly to the hash rate
of Bitcoin. And then hash is going to be more like a government's token a governance one where like we can use it within the protocol to make different decisions
like within the entity uh and other use cases in general if let's say whether it be steve or
david if you wanted to talk more about that for the audience i have to ask i i'm not a i'm not a
huge fan of dual token systems i'll be honest with you. I've said that before, too.
I've literally said so.
What's interesting about Terahash is...
I don't like them.
I don't think they work well.
But I think that you guys have a strong team,
and I'm sure you have some ideas on how to implement this.
A reason for it.
I don't see why one token can't do both.
Terahash is a token.
Oh, go ahead.
Oh, yeah, I was just going to say it's a great point because I agree with you.
Typically, dual token seems superfluous.
But in this context, you have to view THS for what it is, which is essentially a one to one audited right for real world hash rate.
So you can't really bake in like DAO governance capabilities
into that.
You need a secondary token.
And the secondary token also acts as a reward multiplier.
So let's say you have user XYZ.
They own a million worth of terahash.
If that user doesn't stake the terahash,
the yield that is being earned by that real world hash rate
is being reclaimed by hash holders.
So that's where we get this multiplier type of opportunity is that there will inevitably
be THS holders that don't go through the staking motion.
That uncaptured yield will be an additional reward for people that are very into the governance side or the
DAO side of this protocol and ecosystem. So I caught a lot of that ending pieces of it,
and I was sort of understanding the point of like, you know, DAO governance from the hash token
versus THS. So with THS being staked, is that basically once I go through one terahash worth
of compute, that token is completely burned up or I'm paying that token to get that hash rate?
And then if I want more hash rate, I have to stake or burn more tokens?
No. So THS is one-to-one real hash rate. So however much demand there is for
that real-world hash rate that's on RAC through our partners, through our providers,
that is essentially what will be available. So it's an uncapped supply that will be minted based
on actual demand and hash rate. The burning function is for the actual hash governance DAO token.
No, I'm talking on the user side,
because we've seen this model being used in staking for compute.
And I know Noah had brought up Minto.
Another protocol that really came to mind initially for me was Lumerin,
which has really sort of worked.
Yeah, Taco, I was thinking of lumarin too
it's just that was a little i was going to mention them but i think with lumarin you actually are
buying uh excess hash rate and then you're getting sat stream to your wallet yeah and that's where
there's a difference there from what i think you're doing but I was thinking more on the compute model to where like I stake
one DM and I get in perpetual for as long as I have it staked. I get for one DM, I get $1 a day
of inference. If I stake more DM, I get more dollars. So is this where I stake one THS and
I get one terahash in perpetual or I just get one terahash and that's it.
You're spot on there, Taco. That's exactly the way to think of it. So maybe for framing,
an easier way to think of it is the protocol itself, terahash, has a cumulative of hash rate.
And hash rate is just compute power that is being contributed to the Bitcoin network.
And so if you stake your THS token, you are receiving the equivalent of one times however
many THS tokens in perpetuity that they are staked.
And those just continue to chug on.
And then the Bitcoin rewards are distributed to all staked THS token holders in the equivalent
relevant amount.
And anything surplus that from say on, on-staked THS tokens
are then distributed based off of hash staking.
And so you can think of it like USD on Athena versus ENA type stuff, right?
Like that THS token is in perpetuity earning you your fixed income while it's staked,
and its price is then kind of highly correlated to the underpaying
cash flows of that, right? Versus your hash governance token is bifurcated.
Okay. And so then the second piece to that is, and I apologize for coming a little late,
but I felt like you guys were talking about actually making physical miners as well that are connected directly to the Terahash network.
That if someone wants to get into BTC mining themselves, they can mine at home via like a node program?
Or is it just via the THS and using excess compute from current miners?
Yeah, it's just there's no hardware. We're not a mining company. We're
not a mining platform. We're a yield platform providing the yield that's natively kind of
locked into Bitcoin to users through the THS token. So on our end, while there's lots of
great hardware providers out there, some of them are our future partners and partners currently,
we don't have any goals or set plans to make hardware on our end. But actually, it's the opposite. The goal is to
eliminate that problem and make it so that we do not have to worry about plugging in a machine at
your home. Even myself, I have a home garage miner. And it goes down all the time. And you've
got to fiddle with it and fuss with it. And you got to figure out you know how you unwire your dryer for 240 volt power and things
and these are headaches that we're trying to eliminate not add in more of
okay so i i see that like it might become like where people are wanting to people obviously
this is one of those in perpetual things. So you're working at
being a perpetual motion machine. Have you guys calculated what a lot of people talk about as like
the flywheel effect of like, what size you need to get to for it to be be turned into a
continuously profitable machine for not just you as a protocol, but for the users as well?
That's a great question. And I think that we need to establish that in mining in general,
and I'm sure Steve can add to this as he's infinitely experienced, you definitely need to
increase your capacity in line with global network, and you need to continuously improve your efficiency while reducing your electricity rate.
This is just my personal opinion.
I mean, I think we're also kind of on an energy threshold where energy is about to reach a point of
just such abundance and renewables that the cost of energy may not be necessarily a factor.
But I'll let Steve chime
in here with some additional feedback. Yeah. So just a couple of things. I think
Tago, great questions. Thank you so much. And I think you're correct in identifying the dynamic between THS and hash. I mean, kind of think Lido for Bitcoin, right?
And it's, but think that Bitcoin yields
or yields from Bitcoin mining are four times larger
than what, you know, kind of the ecosystem
that Lido is pursuing.
So, you know, I think it's important to understand
that hash is a yield multiplier.
And so specifically to your question of what size do we need to kind of get to that great flywheel?
The answer is it depends.
I'm not going to give you a specific number because it depends a little bit on the inputs.
So namely BTC price, power costs, total hash rate, but it's not a lot. It's much
less than you would think. And when you think about other protocols and other tokens that have
gone from zero to a billion plus in total token value, it's far.
And by the way, we believe we have that potential.
And if we didn't, we wouldn't be here.
We wouldn't be doing this, right?
We're really excited.
We think that we are kind of the next big thing.
But you don't need to get anywhere close to those levels
for you to start to see the impact of that flywheel.
Last thing I'll mention is I hope that other Steve is right about energy costs.
That's not the way we've modeled it.
We've modeled very conservative assumptions about energy moving forward.
I can make an argument like Steve has that energy costs will go down over time as we see kind of an abundance of
sources. But you can make the other argument too, right? That because there's such a huge demand
for electricity, particularly from AI related projects, that that keeps prices steady or even increasing. But what you do see is that scale provides pricing power, right?
In every way, in buying machines, in negotiating your hosting rates,
even in negotiating power rates,
in negotiating rates with any of your partners along any of the dynamics.
And so one of the things that I should have said at the beginning when we were talking about mining,
and I'm glad we've kind of moved away from that because, again, think of us more as a yield engine
rather than a traditional mining company.
We've created a protocol that we can take in a lot of different ways to benefit of the token holders. But one thing that I should have mentioned when we were talking about that is
the other reason that you can't do mining as a retail investor or even as a family office is
because it's all about scale. And because of exactly what I was just talking about,
you can't get great rates, you can't get great locations. You can't get good
pricing on anything. By the way, this is probably true in any industry. I've been in a lot of
industries. It's always true that scale provides, scale is critically important. It is particularly
important in this industry. And so I know, Taco, that was kind of a non-answer answer because I think you were looking for 47,500,000 actually.
But it's not quite that simple, but it's a low number and we think we'll get there quickly.
Yeah, no.
So I know I operate 17 data centers and I started as a Bitcoin miner in 2012.
So I come with a lot of knowledge and history.
And I'm also really dumb in a lot of different things as well.
So I'm not like a, I am not smart by any means.
Ask me how to make food and I'm like, ramen, add water and a microwave.
But, you know, just for like, I was doing quick math on paper.
So that's why while I was reconnecting, which is really interesting, you know, and you'd mentioned earlier, seven cents per kilowatt hour.
So at roughly at today's price, you would need to stake roughly 250 THS to earn a dollar a day.
And that's with you guys taking a two percent fee on the daily, on the hash rate. And, you know,
so people can sort of have an idea of what this, what the token might look like. You think one,
one THS will get you, you know, a dollar a day. No, you know, there's over 733 XO hashes per second going on, on, on, you know, to solve a block.
But it's an interesting model piece. And I, and I, I like the aspect of it.
Almost see you more as like an OPEX as a service type of piece or, or,
or electricity side of things.
So it's going to be really cool to see what kind of partnerships you can make
with, with either mining facilities that are already working like in the great state of Texas,
mining has saved power, you know, power surplus as a load balancer, you know,
and that's where mining facilities really do come into play.
AI just gobbles it up 100%, whereas in mining facilities can, like you said,
scale up or scale turn machines on or off depending on power needs and loads.
So I think it's a cool model to sort of see it attack and attach.
Yeah, for those that are...
And by the way, that's what, sorry to keep, Jim, that's a really interesting point too, right?
And one of the kind of central dynamics is that we are, you know, we're chasing profits, right? And so this is, I don't think we
need to dive too deeply into this, but the power demands for an AI center are totally different
than for what we're talking about here, right? Because you need 99.99% uptime and you need fiber connectivity
and you need all kinds of stuff that here we're just saying, hey, when do we maximize profit?
Even if we're only up 93% of the time, let's do that in a way where we're extracting maximum yield.
Yeah. And it's one of those things where, you know, if you look at it, you might, there might be some days where you make, you know, users might make less than what they spend, but because they're buying hash rate, you know, or terahash rate in this, in this aspect, you know, it's a, it becomes a steady stream because a terahash will always get you a certain piece. A question I was wondering on this, are you guys looking at creating your own mining pool
and this would be a contributor to just being its own mining pool
or would you be joining other mining pools in that aspect?
Right now we have...
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm happy to hop on that one.
So right now we have partner pools specified
that we're working with,
and they've been partners prior to launching this in previous companies.
But that exact point, kind of the exciting things that are also really good to look forward to,
to the future is what does this set the foundation for?
And so there's lots of things like centralization and mining pools of hashrate and things like that,
Lots of things like centralization and mining pools of hashrate and things like that, that
right now, while we don't have the exact path forward on how we can execute on it, this
sets the base for solving some of those problems and more importantly, the really exciting
solutions that can come of it and the things that can get built on top.
So right now we've got pool partners picked out, but we're definitely looking at ways
that this can go beyond that scope and other ways that we can kind of deeply entwine with Bitcoin protocol and the way it currently works.
Nice.
Yeah, no, it's one of those things where even if you grow to a certain extent and you get enough hardware onboarded, looking at making your own mining pool to where you could even maximize yield even better.
I like what you guys are. I like the idea. Um,
and I was unfortunately getting rugged when I heard Hunter start to speak.
So whatever he said about me is 100% a lie. I am a mini shark.
Um, you know, so, but you know, if there's any way that, you know,
manifest could support you guys, we'd love to talk and support, uh, you know, so, but, you know, if there's any way that, you know, Manifest could support you guys, we'd love to talk and support, you know, in building and yeah, you know, there's, you know, especially one of those things as we see more mainstream adoption, you know, there, you know, I think one of the really cool things, you know, and my number one thing is make it as
simple as, as possible, you know, make, make a, like, I know Hunter had said like some
sort of like telegram game or something like that, but don't even do that.
Like make a, a app, a Google app store app F Apple, because you're only targeting, uh,
F Apple, because you're only targeting 20% of the world population that owns a smartphone.
Target Android, you'll hit 75% of the market.
And 75% of the world that has an Android, if they could even just start earning in a little bit a day and they could start earning BTC.
earning in a little bit a day and they could start earning BTC.
Like if you,
like if you remember the early day,
like 20,
like 2015,
2016,
there was like stupid little games you could play or you could watch an,
you know,
ad and you earn sats.
If you could bring that back.
That would be neat.
That'd be really neat.
And then no,
literally like right after this call.
So one thing taco that I don't even think I DM'd you yet.
I only told a few people about it because I've been kind of like working behind the scenes with the TerraHash team to really bring this to what it is today.
And there's so many more cool announcements to come.
But like, you know, I've been with Tron for the past like multiple years, even since like the beginning as the senior ecosystem development manager, as well as like the investment team lead.
And I've had a lot of big connections and I've like I've got like tier X and USTT on
Revolut I was giving like government connections and I'm always all over the world doing some
like so many different things and Terra hash was the only thing besides one other interesting
project that I can mention in the future but Terra hash is the one project that after meeting
the team and seeing the deck which I'll send to you after this call seeing what they're working
on it really is doing like the main thing that I wanted to get into crypto for, which is trying to make the world a better,
more decentralized place, trying to really bring mass adoption to the industry and get
more people to have a Bitcoin, which is a really good hedge against inflation because everyone
knows right now the world's a crazy place. The cost of living is getting more and more expensive.
More people need to get into crypto. More people need to be holding Bitcoin. now the world's a crazy place the cost of living is getting more and more expensive more people
need to get into crypto more people need to be holding bitcoin and everyone is always curious
about like well how can they do that or how can they get into mining they want to figure that out
but they don't know how so we're trying to and now we did that's what terahash is doing it's making
it so easy for anybody to literally just hold this token and you get daily bitcoin you don't have to worry
about the hardware or electricity cost or like any scam websites or some cloud mining thing like
nothing it's just you huddle the token if you stake it then you can get your daily bitcoin rewards
and the the team behind it like steve didn't even really he did mention some of his past experience
like with e-trade which is by morgan stan Stanley or some of the other businesses that he scaled to be worth multiple billions.
He even was the CEO of Griffin Mining, which very recently, I think it was within this month, that entity, which Steve Gutterman – so he's the CEO of TerraHash.
He just finished doing the merger with Eric Trump, which now became American Bitcoin.
It's now traded on the stock market.
They literally just did the bell ringing so now we have like the best people in the industry and the best connections uh like with the mining entities like they even said it's u.s based but
uh these are 100 million dollar contracts and these are the best players we're speaking with
the top exchanges we're getting team members from the top protocols that are very
well experienced. We have like the best market makers. Like it's so impressive. It's literally
like one of the only things that made me be like, you know what? I need to step down from Tron full
time to focus on this because when this goes public, which is very soon, like one thing to
even mention on the space is if you go to terahash.xyz, the website,
you can even follow the main account.
They're one of the speakers right now.
We're going to be posting soon.
We have a early access like whitelist page.
So anybody that wants to get in
and like be an early contributor
and access the ecosystem
and get your hands on some of the tokens early
to be staking, getting returns,
you can now
do that so the whitelist page is now opening uh and then i think in october it's going to be when
people can like get the tokens and then november is when everything is going to then actually like
be open like for the public but the whitelist is opening now we're starting to collect interest to
see who's interested uh and then just go from there but our partners are
powerful like the top bitcoin mining facilities then the people that are joining the team are
such pros it's insane like i said steve gutterman who's the ceo of terrahash is on the call now
he just finished doing the merger with eric trump that became american Bitcoin and now full-time TerraHash. Myself, I stepped down
from Tron to do this full-time. We have the best of the best that's behind it. And all of these
people that are coming together to make this work, they're doing it because they believe in the
vision and they want to get Bitcoin in the hands of as many people as possible and the easiest way
to do it. And that's exactly what TerraHash has created. And I'm so excited for people to just hold the token,
see the daily rewards, and just, I'd say,
live life to the fullest and get excited
for the upcoming bull run.
This is something that's so powerful.
And the APYs, by the way, I think at the moment,
they range between like 45% and 55%, like the yield,
which is insane.
And it's paid out daily in Bitcoin.
But this is an entity
that's actually bear market resistant because of that. Sorry, Hunter.
I do need to jump in on that. That is true on those yields as we've been running it right now.
That's obviously, this is like the lawyer in me, you know, that's obviously not something
that we are throwing out as a guarantee.
I can guarantee that we're going to have a massively efficient tokenized, you know, protocol
that is going to produce yields that are superior to, you know, anything else that's currently
on the market.
But, you know, let's we'll see how that
plays out. No, I understand the. Yeah, just so everyone knows, saying not financial advice does
not actually legally cover you from anything whatsoever. But no, I like that. And, you know, I know American BTC or BTC American is going to be a huge partner at KBW this year.
So I'm, you know, interested to see what happens.
And I see an amazing hand up as well.
Taco, Taco, can I – I want to jump in really quick before I intro Ryan.
Jump in really quick before I intro Ryan. I definitely need some more context on how you
can sustain such like the APYs just don't make sense to me and I say that respectfully and I
would love to know yeah I mean for you I know it's currently 40 to 50 percent and you're saying
over time it's going to come down but But I just, I don't see how
at an average of $0.07 per kilowatt hour, you guys are able to pay out that kind of
Bitcoin reward. But let me let me intro Ryan really quick. Ryan, we were speaking about
Lumarin. He's a founder of Lumarin. He's now an advisor to Lumarin. He's a partner to
MobiMedia. Ryan's a crypto OG. He's been in Bitcoin since 2010 and is also an electrical engineer and the first person to actually break down how Bitcoin mining is used to balance power grids. ...state of Texas, but it was Ryan back in 2023 in a hole in the wall Italian restaurant in Miami
before we were taking off for a flight where he kind of broke it down to me and my co-founder and
I go, dang, this entire time I'm over here thinking that Bitcoin mining is terrible for the environment
and it's what's being spouted on every single news channel, but it seems that if done correctly, it can
actually be beneficial to power grids and it can save a lot of cost.
So without further ado, Ryan, welcome, sir.
I'm glad you're able to make it.
I should have had you on from the beginning, man.
It's a shame that you weren't on early, but here we go.
I appreciate the invite and I apologize for joining late.
I'm just kind of getting caught up on the conversation here.
I did have a question because you guys kept saying Bitcoin payouts daily.
Are you paying out actual Bitcoin or wrapped Bitcoin?
Are you paying out actual Bitcoin or wrapped Bitcoin?
Wrapped Bitcoin.
So it gets converted after the pool payouts.
Gotcha.
And then, so you guys are hosting hash power and then essentially tokenizing it
and then letting the tokens trade or sell or whatever.
Yeah, I mean, in last words, you're pretty spot on.
So we have a pool of hash rate already on our end,
as well as surplus hash rate that's ready to be converted
over to the pool on minting.
And the cumulative rewards are then distributed out
to staked THS holders, and anything beyond that
is then distributed out to staked hash holders and dual beyond that is then distributed out to state cash holders and
dual stakers. I missed what's the difference between hash and THS.
So one THS token is equivalent to one terash of mining power. It is long as it's
staked you're receiving those rewards in perpetuity there it's the yield bearing
end and then hash is the governance utility token of the platform.
Gotcha, gotcha.
So I'd imagine the longer you're staked with THS, then you get your yield in hash, is that correct?
No, you get your yield in WBTC.
It's all paid out to you in WBTC.
Sorry, I'm getting caught up here.
Sorry, Ryan.
I think that the way to think about it is that THS is the token that represents hash rate
and hash is the protocol token.
And it incentivizes users for using the protocol and governance.
And it also redistributes the undistributed yield and so
each time etc is mine part of it would go to the ths folders and part of it would go
to um purchase hash creating constant demand and you can stake hash on solo mode or you can stake
both tokens and dramatically increase your yield on both, but really with THS.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
So is the idea that the ecosystem propagates itself
because not everybody is going to stake the THS?
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the reasons
that it propagates itself.
The other is that there's just profitability in what we're doing.
And by the way, there's a variety of reasons that people may not stake, right?
Ranging from just they forgot to to they'll be moving their allocation of tokens.
So that is part of what propagates the system.
Yeah, I've seen, no, I wasn't wrong.
I've seen so many systems come along through the years,
whether it be like, you know, the CX.io
or they're like their giga hash tokens.
I remember Josh Garza had his hashlets.
It seems like there's four or five companies right now
that are kind of doing their own tokenized hash power.
And I think it's really novel,
like finding different ways to, you know,
stake the token or lock the token,
or you guys have a thaw period if you try to unstake it and you use all these time gaps in order to
to essentially get extra you know revenue or bitcoin in the in the in the coffers in order to
keep scaling your mining systems um did i hear right that you guys are doing average of seven cents a kilowatt hour though
well that's what we that's what's in our model what I would tell you is that if we're if we
actually if that's where we are over time I'll be very surprised and disappointed yeah I think it's
yeah you know I mean I've seen I've seen companies companies and I spent a lot of time poring over their results when they didn't make it that were like, well, once we get to our one and a half cent power, which we, of course, will be unlocking in November, then this is what our profitability is going to look like.
And somehow those forecasts never came true so uh a model and
reality differ yeah yes yes yeah some of them didn't make it because their forecasts were wrong
and others didn't make it because they got arrested for issuing too much hash power um that was
actually josh garza's thing where they sold more hashlets and then uh they got sued and
then it came out that uh they had sold like millions and millions of dollars of these
hashlets and they didn't actually they weren't actually able to provision out enough hash power
to back you know how much quote unquote tokenized hash power they had released
there has been a lot of entities and companies in the past even nft projects that have like
different things.
You buy this NFT and it guarantees you bronze rewards and you're going to get this much hash rate.
Everyone has attempted and they've tried in many different ways.
There's even been before people buy their own mining rigs and they try and find somewhere that's super cheap. like there's been so many entities that have tried to do exactly what terahash now is actually
probably doing it the best way with the best team behind it and everything about like terahash in
general it's completely like the whole point of blockchain supposed to be not just like
decentralized but completely transparent everything's literally on chain so every single
aspect of the entire terahash ecosystem, so the yields, the partners,
how everything works and flows, it's all on-chain. So everyone can see it. Everybody can stake their
tokens. Everybody can get their daily wrapped Bitcoin yield. It's completely liquid. There's
no lockup periods. There's nothing where it's like people have to wait. It's just buy it,
stake it, get your yield. It's liquid. And our partners, they're very powerful. So we don't want to give the names out now. If you just explore on terahash.xyz, you'll probably kind of see who. helping us to be able to do all of this all based in the united states but then soon to go global
to just really scale terahash to make it be like lido or lido have you say it for ethereum it's
going to do the same thing for bitcoin or lido and it's yeah exactly and i'm very excited like i said
i like stepped down from tron to really like after seeing it and i was skeptical too when i first saw
it i'm like well this is high yield and i'm like well how is this going to work and how is this
different than the competitors?
And I did a lot of research.
And then it wasn't until I spoke with the other speakers that are up here now and meeting Steve Gutterman, seeing his past experience, which is very impressive, scaling businesses to be worth billions.
And he's worked at E-Trade.
And now he literally just, like I said, finished that merger with Eric Trump and American Bitcoin, and now full-time TerraHash. And this is now making it so anybody in the world
can just now have access to Bitcoin mining without needing to worry about any of the costs
associated. They can just buy the hash or THS, they can stake it, get their wrapped Bitcoin daily,
and it just makes it so much easier for people to get exposure to Bitcoin.
Cheap, fast, easy.
Anyone else losing audio on Hunter?
No, I can hear him.
No, that's good.
Oh, my goodness.
So now I'm caught up here.
I want to ask some very pointed questions.
And I don't want to come off like I'm being an asshole or anything.
No, bring it on.
Make it as difficult, as hard, as mean.
Whatever you want.
Hopefully we got an answer.
And if not, we'll answer it soon.
All right.
Here we go.
Ready?
Who holds the Bitcoin keys?
So that would be a Steve or a David question?
Yeah, right now the way it's all designed is that it's on its own node and it's an automated
bookmaster from the pool payouts to the RAP BTC wallet.
And we have an engineering call scheduled as well to get some of my devs up so they can
better nerd out on the DeFi rails and everything that sits there.
But right now it's the protocol.
Well, like, but there's, there's like one or two engineers that hold the the keys right
there are three i think it is steve off the top of my head that currently hold the keys yes
gotcha and then you guys have like a processing program in the background that takes incoming
bitcoin transactions from the pools and then translates
that into a WBTC push to one of the smart contracts for distribution.
Yes, sir.
And that's the current rails while we're still working out how we can better integrate in
with the custodial.
Yeah.
So this is like one like custodial risk in these types of systems is like huge.
Huge.
So like as you guys.
The risk.
Exactly.
As you guys scale.
And this is the hard thing for these types of models is they're incredibly centralized.
So it's really hard to call it decentralized Bitcoin mining when huge aspects of the system, especially the financial aspects, are very,
very centralized?
Well, I mean, I think that those are two different concepts, though I understand and I'm not
minimizing what you're saying.
As a matter of fact, I've spent my whole career in highly regulated industries, mostly in financial services.
And so it's funny.
It's like you've actually been in our compliance and legal meetings.
So I've been doing this for a long time.
Yeah, it's funny.
I was like, that's a really good question.
And that's a very well, that's a very informed question. And, you know, what I what I can tell you is that.
decentralized is different than talking about, you know, kind of the compliance issues at a
kind of a central repository. But I still take your point and we take your point. And so it's
going to sound cliched for me to say that that's why, that it's our highest priority. We brought
in Nate Cho, who's an absolute expert in this and has been for 10 years, and he's our general counsel.
We've got a compliance team.
We actually brought on Loewenstein-Sandler to review our entire legal and compliance kind of structure.
They also, by the way, opined that these were not securities, and so that's great news for us.
Who said that? You know that everything we do is Loenstein sandler it's our council and so you you have a
legal opinion letter from them saying they're not securities we do that's awesome yeah that's great
right that is gold yeah it's it's i mean so we're doing, like, clearly this is not your first rodeo, not our first rodeo either, right?
You know, and we, you know, so, like, everything's audited on a daily basis.
As a matter of fact, the transparency of this system is part of, I think, what makes it interesting.
So, now, that, by the way, transparency is different.
It's a slightly, I can give you a slightly different answer
to your question because transparency
is not the same thing as centralized risk.
And we know that, but I'm just kind of adding
some other elements to the answer.
Yeah, no, so that's huge
because like the security thing, when you fractionalize ownership
or even yield or payouts of ownership of an asset is it's very, very close to securities
land.
So it's great that you guys got an opinion letter on that.
And I say that because I've been on those multi-hour long calls with six lawyers and going in circles and then all telling me how I can't do something.
And I just need them to give me one way of the way I can do something.
So I've been there.
So the other question I have.
Oh, and actually, quick note on custodial systems.
The best you're going to get is a 16-way multi-sig.
So if you guys build governance tokens around voting on signing,
around 16 super nodes for your signing,
you could actually decentralize your custodial risk there.
I've written a lot of papers on this stuff.
Can you kick me over some of those? What's that. Can you kick me over some of those?
What's that?
Could you kick me over some of those papers?
Yeah, let me dig through my stuff.
Yeah, no, please.
I'd love to read through that.
I've been going through this stuff since like 2013
on how do you do key sharding
how do you do key sharding and fractional ownership of addresses.
and fractional ownership of addresses.
Yeah, we did a lot of that at DMG, and it was a nightmare.
So anything you've got, I'm happy to take care of.
Yeah, so there's a lot of cool things you could do.
I know Noah probably brought up Lumerin,
which is decentralized hash power routing,
or really just decentralized data
routing that's a little hairier and way more fragmented and likes you know
site you know cypherpunk type stuff but what you guys have going on is
definitely way more scalable I know there's I think there's like five other
projects that I know of that are doing something very similar. Right now, it just all comes down to partnerships and market placement.
soon so like i said we're trying to have like the press releases and the forbes announcements and
even showing up on tv like cnbc and just announcing what terahash is all about have big presence of
course at like like bitcoin vegas and we're connected with a lot of people like more people
than most people in the industry may even realize like government officials banks everything like i
have friends and the whole terahash team is so well connected and the potential
partners and even the partners that are already lined up with what we just haven't done the
announcement yet are so big that regardless of any competitors or anybody that's even attempting to
do something similar, I don't think it can even come close. We're really trying to bring the best
of the best together to bring something that actually makes a massive impact in the industry and will do for Bitcoin like what Lido did for Ethereum.
And it's just going to make it so people can now get daily Bitcoin rewards in an easy way and just have something that's scalable that just gets Bitcoin in the hands of the many.
So I'm very excited for Terahash's future.
A couple more questions for you guys.
Once again, I'm
not trying to be an asshole.
I'm legitimately
trying to understand better what you guys
are doing here.
How big is your
Bitcoin reserve that you guys are starting
with to buffer that
to buffer that bridge between Bitcoin and WBTC.
bridge between Bitcoin and WBTC?
So David or Steve, would you happen to have the answer to that?
You may know off the top of your head.
I know we're also currently in collaboration
or speaking with WBTC team.
Oh, I think the one guy just actually hopped off.
Steve, would you happen to have the answer?
Yes, it will be $25 million.
Oh, nice.
Okay.
Okay.
There we go.
He just typed in $25 million.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, no, so we're also talking with, like I said.
A little bit in flux, but that's figure 25.
Awesome.
Yeah, I think the other team member got rugged.
But basically, yeah, no, it's launching strong.
We have, like I said, a mini app or like a game that was developed that was
trying to teach people about there he is he just hopped back on about just bitcoin in general and
about terahash and the ecosystem and we're launching with millions of users we're also
launching with some powerful partners we're just waiting to do the correct timing for the
co-marketing announcement and then we're going to start doing all these different representations at
these conferences.
And we're going to show up like on TV and just do a whole bunch of different
things to really showcase the team who's behind TerraHash,
what it's all about and why it's actually,
I think very much needed within the ecosystem or just the industry as a whole.
Like you've said before,
there's been many projects that have attempted and tried,
and it's a very big undertaking.
But if everything is not lined up perfectly,
from the protocol to the just like the reserves,
to the transparency, to the partnerships, to the timing of the launch,
everything needs to be essentially perfect.
We have all the right ingredients.
The timeline seemed to be perfect.
The team members are very well experienced. And I think this is going to be the one
of out of everything that's ever been or any other protocol that's ever attempted.
This is going to be probably the number one one that I think a lot of people are going to be
seeing the Terahash name from 2020. Let's say the end of this year and moving forward,
I think TerraHash is going to be a very well-known,
powerful name in the industry.
Two questions for you.
Fantastic.
We hope to end on, I'm sorry, folks,
I have to jump to a 530 call,
but this has been fantastic.
Nearly 90-minute space.
Excellent.
Glad to see the turnout.
Thank you, everybody, for having me.
Thank you, Steve. Steve? see the turnout. Thank you, everybody, for having me. Thank you, Steve.
Steve?
Thanks, everyone.
One of the things I had, Hunter, where I was trying to, while Ryan was bringing up some really good stuff,
one of the things I have is I see a lot that you guys are talking about security audit and audit,
but I don't see any links to any of that.
So who did your guys' audit and who's know your keys and stuff like that right now so we're currently working on updating
the whole website right now if you've seen how it looked last week versus like today it's completely
different we're adding all the different pages with all the details and we're even speaking with
like chain link and uh everything that we need So it shows pretty much link by link and full transparency.
So then anybody can go on and any aspect of the ecosystem and how things are moving and working and where and when and why it's all going to be there.
And then we will have announced very soon pretty much everything.
So this. Pretty much everything.
