Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Terra Builders • LNS x TFM
Recorded: Nov. 15, 2022 Duration: 1:08:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hi guys, this is RebelDefi on the TFM account.
I can see you've got Joseph in the house from L&S.
Welcome to Galactic Punks and Skeleton Punks and everyone else listening just now.
I'll just call Joseph up.
Hopefully he's getting on okay.
And if you notice Joseph's PFP, I think he's got one of his Alchemist Wolves on.
Maybe he'll talk about them a little bit more, we'll see.
Hey Joseph, how you doing?
Hey, doing good. What about you?
To be honest, I am pretty sleepy.
I have come from the UK.
I left the UK about a week ago and I'm in Japan.
But I'm still feeling that I kind of get really sleepy early evening.
Yeah.
And I wake up nice and early, which is good.
But yeah.
I'm just lying in bed, relaxing.
You have to fight the deadlock somehow.
Yeah.
I think, I don't know, maybe I'm just lazy.
I mean, it's a week ago I came here, so I really should be over it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah.
Thanks for inviting me.
Excited to be here.
Absolutely.
In fact, maybe I should just have this reminder at the start of the call.
Like, you spoke to me last week or so to talk about this giveaway you were doing for these LNS names.
So I've just pinned this tweet.
It's a pretty easy one to enter, but it's quite a good ratio.
I think we've had about 130 entries so far.
And all people have to do to win one of your LNS names is essentially just retweet that tweet.
So if anyone's not done that yet and you fancy an LNS name, you're more than welcome just to retweet the pinned tweet here to begin with the chance of one of these names.
Now, most of the names are worth just that it's one Luna.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
But your colleague Thomas said that he was happy enough to give away some more exclusive LNS names.
Maybe a four-lettered one and a five-lettered one as well?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we can give away those too.
Wow.
And then what's the Luna value on those ones?
So I think for four-letter, it's 32 Luna and for three-letter, unless it's 128 Luna.
I don't think you...
I don't know if he was going to give a three-letter one away.
That would be pretty cool.
Yeah, I'm just mentioning that, like...
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
But, yeah, we can...
I mean, not 40, right?
But, yeah.
Awesome.
And these LNS names, they work on Luna and LUNC as well, is that right?
Yes.
On one or the other?
On both.
On both.
It works on both.
Cool.
So, yeah, if there's any Terra Classic people in the house, you're more than welcome to pick
up a dot-long one.
Yeah, for Luna Classic, we are just waiting for listing it on a random Earth for people
to be able to trade it, you know.
Yeah.
We are still in the process of listing it there, but it should be there, hopefully, this week.
So, yeah.
Okay.
Well, I mean, and for people who may not be super familiar with the LNS name service names,
like, what's the point?
I mean, I've got one.
I've got rebel underscore defy dot Luna.
But, I mean, what can I do with that?
Yeah.
So, for now, you can buy it and, you know, wrap your address in your name or in a nickname
that you want to use, that you use on Twitter or elsewhere.
And, you know, like, use it to promote your service with your on-chain profile that you
can have.
So, lns.money slash classic or, like, 2.0 network and then your name.
And you can share your links there.
And it's kind of like your on-chain profiles.
This is one thing that you can do.
And also, we are working with TerraStation with integration with the wallet.
So, in the future, you'll be able to, hopefully, in the near future, you'll be able to send
also money.
You know, like, you know, money, but, like, you know, assets over the wallet.
So, you would just type in your, yeah, your LNS name and it will directly, you know, recognize
your wallet address and you'll be able to send assets.
So, these are, I think, the two use cases at the moment that are quite nice.
What we are also backing in Behind the Scenes, not Behind the Scenes, but also in our roadmap,
is that we want you to verify you via Twitter.
So, your profile will be, we will want to prevent scams, right?
So, your profile will be verified against Twitter and it will be kind of, like, connected.
So, you know that you're sending your assets to the correct person.
That's another thing.
And last but not least, you can also, if you want to send, for example, money to Rebel,
you can just go to his LNS profile and you can send it right away from there.
You can send only Luna for now, but in the future, the vision is that, like, you go there,
you hit send button and, you know, the model would come up.
And you can pick an asset, an amount, and just send it.
So, that's the vision.
But for now, you can just go there and send Luna.
So, yeah.
Awesome.
I think I've tried that.
I just wanted to practice it.
I think I sent TerraSpace as one Luna.
So, yeah, I just went to his profile page and then it just worked.
So, that's pretty cool.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I remember I've kind of set up my profile page.
So, I've put my Twitter or kind of linked it to my Twitter username.
Yeah.
But what you're talking about now with verifying on Twitter, is that different to what I've
already set up?
Yeah.
It's not live yet.
So, you would need to – yeah, it's different.
Like, you would – there would be a button to verify Twitter and it would post a tweet
on our Twitter wall.
And, you know, that way we can, like, kind of, like, connect the Twitter address with – yeah,
with your wallet address and, like, say it's you.
So, it's a bit different, but, yeah, I think, like, the – yeah, very, very, like,
technically and also, like, based on our research, it's, like, the way to go about the Twitter
verification.
So, yeah, that's kind of it.
Okay.
I've got you.
So, yeah, the way I've kind of done it just now, I think I just – I put in what my Twitter
username was.
Yeah.
But you're saying that it's going to be some sort of authenticated by logging into my Twitter.
Yeah.
So, imagine, like, you are logged in – in your browser, you are logged in as a Rebill
DeFi, right?
And if you are on LNS profile or your LNS edit page, you would click, you know, verify we
at Twitter, and we would open, like, the extra browser window with your profile signed in
that you use on the browser, and you would need to, like – you would post your, you
know, wallet address on your wall, and then, you know, like, we are able to kind of verify
that it's you based on this post, based on this tweet, pretty much.
Okay.
Cool.
So, sounds pretty interesting.
And do you think, like – maybe when we get back into another bull run, but, I mean, is
the idea, is, like, the target market, like, everyone who's got a TerraStation wallet, you
want them to set up their own kind of Luna name service?
Is that what you're going for?
Or what percentage of wallets are you hoping are going to have a Luna name service?
Yeah.
Yeah, ideally, ideally, ideally everyone, but, yeah, this is, yeah, ideally, ideally as many
people as possible.
I mean, we want them to convince that there is value to actually do that.
So, it's not just for the sake of having a name.
So, yeah, this is, yeah, this is, like, the beginning, but, like, kind of, like, you know, reserve your name.
But in the future, it can be much more than just, you know, being able to send some assets
in TerraStation, but also it correlates a lot with Web3 identity as a topic.
So, it can be, like, you know, yeah, we can, like, pull in under one NFT, under your NFT domain,
we can pull in all the information that you have on chain and so on and so forth.
So, it can be much more, you have a quite bold vision, but that's, yeah, that's just to name a few things.
But, yeah, we want to kind of, like, this is, like, the foundation that we are starting with
and we want to, you know, build more valuable stuff on top of it to actually convince people
to reserve their name and, you know, use it.
Awesome. I'm just looking through your Twitter page just now.
I remember, I think, the first website that I saw the integration with LNS on was AERIS Protocol.
Soon after TFM integrated as well.
So, basically, on AERIS and on TFM, up where, in the top right-hand corner where your wallet address is,
if you do have a Luna name service name, you can click on your wallet
and instead of showing you the wallet number, it tells you your Luna name service name.
So, with those two projects kind of in the bag, have you got, are you speaking to any other projects to integrate?
Well, you did mention Terra Station as well, which would be quite a major one.
Yeah.
But are there any other projects that you're integrating with?
Yeah, we want to integrate as many as possible.
But we are now talking to, for example, AERIS Protocol or some other guys from the ecosystem.
So, yeah, we already, like Tomas, wrote documentation on Ocean.
So, if anyone wants to integrate, we can share our documentation and it should be quite fairly easy to do it.
So, yeah.
If we don't reach out to anyone, please, if you want to integrate, we are more than happy to share the documentation and, yeah, integrate.
Yeah, as far as the job at TFM was concerned, once the devs got on it, it seemed to be quite a quick process.
Just an hour or two, I think, once they started work.
I mean, I have no idea technically what you have to do.
Yeah, I'm with you.
But, yeah, Tomas set it up.
It's, yeah, it's not like a one-click integration, but it's quite clear what's in the documentation.
So, if you follow this, I think it should be fairly easy.
But also, if you have any problems, I think you can always reach out to us and, like, Tomas will be happy to help.
So, if there's anything not clear or, you know, if you need to understand something better, it's, yeah, feel free to reach out.
Awesome.
Well, if there's anyone else from projects listening in now or in the future, words of wisdom there from Joseph.
Look, we're in quite an exciting time, I think, for the Terra ecosystem with potential sort of things launching.
We've had sort of a lot of chat in governance about funding for different projects.
I know you've got a few different ideas of things going on your end as well.
So, I mean, where do you want to take this conversation?
Are you interested in talking about potential future funding or things you have in your own roadmap?
Yeah, the floor is yours.
Yeah, definitely.
So, yeah, if we, as far as L&S is concerned, I think we are thinking about, yeah, definitely the community pool is one of the ways.
But we were actually talking about the Thomas and we think that if a project wants to, like, take funding from the community pool, I think it has to be, like, a deal.
You know, like, you take something from the community pool and it's not just that the community pool gives you the funds, but, you know, you give them something for that.
So, in terms of L&S, we want to launch a token early next year and we are thinking, we don't have any exact numbers, but we want to, like, put up a proposal and, you know, propose that we, you know, we allocate some sort of, like, chunk from the tokens that we will be launching to the community.
And this will be, like, a deal pretty much.
We get the community, like, we get a fund from the community pool and, like, on the other hand, we will offer our tokens to the community in a way, in some way.
It's not, like, figured out yet, but that's the one way to go about this.
So, this is how we think about it and this is our, like, thinking model in minds that we want to give something as well, not just take.
Sure.
I like the way you phrased that, like, you give the community a chunk.
So, that certainly sounds a lot more than just one or two percent, which I think would be appreciated by the community.
Yeah, depending on how much, you know, we'll be asking, but, yeah, if you want to, yeah, obviously, if you want to, yeah, keep building on Terra and focus on it and bring value, it's, yeah, it will be something, yeah.
I don't know the numbers, as I'm saying it, but, yeah, we will do it a way that it's kind of, like, fair, based on, like, discussions with other people, with other members of the community.
So, yeah.
Absolutely.
And, I mean, we had this discussion around, like, that Terra expedition proposal and then Doe came and dropped some bombs about Feather and Alliance.
And this is all getting exciting because, I mean, this stuff is coming along.
So, definitely looking forward to seeing how it's all going to pan out.
I mean, one thing, I mean, because, like, Terra expedition is now sort of no longer proceeding, that means that projects who thought they might be getting some runway via Terra expedition, like yourselves, I suppose, are now all going to be putting in individual, well, not necessarily all, but there's going to be.
I mean, we've already seen it, we've had, like, three or four proposals have gone up on Agora already.
So, it's going to be quite interesting to see how projects kind of differentiate themselves with their applications for community funding.
I mean, have you got any opinions on how the community is going to decide which projects get funded and which ones don't, or do we just fund everything, or do we fund nothing?
I mean, what's your opinion on the community pool?
Is it there for spending, or should it be sort of saved for a rainy day or at some point in the future?
It's, obviously, not a tricky question, but kind of like a lot of open ends, I guess.
But, of course, we, myself personally, I have an opinion, also we, as a team, have an opinion.
So, as I mentioned, I think it makes sense if you want to get some funds, you first, like, think, like, you have to give something as well.
Not always, but I think it's nice.
But also, you have to show, like, the real value proposition.
And also, you need to show that you are dedicated to the, you know, to the ecosystem, to the community, and that you built something already.
And, yeah, so kind of, like, not saying that, like, a new project can come in and, like, ask for funds.
It's, of course, okay, but they also need to show, like, some sort of, like, you know, prove that they mean it.
And, yeah, there might be some ways, you know, to also, like, I like this emergency allocation and the vesting.
So, I think it makes sense to, if people are asking for some funds, I think it's nice to put up a clear roadmap and a vision and, you know, invest the tokens based on what gets delivered.
And, you know, go, like, step by step, not just, like, throw funds on every project.
And just, you know, I don't think that that works because, yeah, there has to be some motivation, you know, to achieve these roadmap goals and so on.
So, I think vesting those makes a lot of sense, a clear roadmaps and, like, some innovation would be great to see as well.
So, yeah.
Absolutely.
We've got Philip here as well.
I believe you two guys speak, I don't know how regularly, but I'm sure you know each other.
Philip from AERIS Protocol.
Yeah.
Do you have any thoughts on community funding, Philip?
Yeah, sure.
So, I totally agree with Joseph.
So, we should think about which projects should be supported.
And the biggest advantage I saw with Terra Expedition is that you have a committee deciding it because right now the governance, the state of governance on Terra is still, yeah, not many people vote on it.
So, I think, for example, the proposal from PFC, only 260 wallets voted on it.
And so, mostly the validators decide right now if a proposal goes through or not.
So, I think, for example, it would streamline the process to have the same people decide in some kind of way.
I'm not talking about who should be on this council.
It's super difficult to answer that.
But I would prefer it more in this way because it's more streamlined.
And the way it's right now, it means every protocol will create or every product that needs some kind of runway will create some kind of proposal.
It takes some time off from building.
It also takes off time from community because these proposals are – if you show your vision, your products, and explain everything, what you're building, it takes a lot of time.
And, for example, we are also preparing a proposal right now.
And it is about, I don't know, I think 10 pages right now.
And it's not even finished yet.
I would explain where we want to go.
And, yeah, so, it can take a little bit more effort in governance when every project will create this kind of proposal.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it can start to get a little bit political and trying to work out if a proposal is going to pass or who you need to speak to.
I mean, this is one thing.
I mean, I thought the whole idea of Web3 was like decentralization.
And I suppose it is decentralized governance, but it's still got the – what's the one I'm trying to say?
Yeah, you need to go around.
Yeah, you need to go around, talk with validators, make sure they also support the proposal.
It's a lot of politics behind.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And then, yeah, maybe projects then have to sort of think about what they're going to maybe give to different validators to get a vote.
And I don't know, it just – I don't know if there are backhanders, but it makes me wonder that something like that might be going on.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah, to me, for example, it's like similar to what you would do like before they're like in front of real investors, right?
You would – you want to – yeah, you want to convince them that what you're trying to build is – has a potential or is in a way innovative or things like that.
So, yeah, but I agree also with Philippe that, yeah, it's a bit political, so maybe a council would be nice.
Yeah.
But, yeah, let's see how it plays out.
Our team would like to, like, you know, present our proposal in a way that, like, it's a deal.
It's something that, okay, we have this, we want to give this value, like, the value proposition has to be super clear and so on and so forth.
So, yeah.
I mean, I know Joseph and L&S had a – I thought it was quite an innovative way of sort of trying to raise funding.
Unfortunately, just due to the market we're in, I'm not certain that now is necessarily the time that that project might be super successful.
I mean, do you want to talk about the sort of the other projects that you're working on and your kind of development studio or do you want to keep it focused to L&S for the time being?
No, no, we can talk about PAX, we can talk about Alchemist Labs, yeah.
Namely PAX, we also, like, based on those – we also talked about it with some people before, but we are – yeah, we have some new vision for PAX, pretty much PAX 2.0.
It should be all the whole Cosmos, and so we are also – we just posted our Agora, like, update.
So, it's mentioned briefly there already, but it's still a work in progress, so, yeah.
PAX is also getting a bit of a refurbishment, if you will.
So, if I – yeah, I can mention, like, do you want to create – because PAX was – before it was, like, or at the moment, it's just – it was a DAO tooling, so pretty much for creating a classic multisig DAO Q1s.
And – but we think, yeah, that it could be something even nicer, so also for individuals to use.
So, we are thinking, like, it could be, like, some sort of, like, a hub for all the discussions and all the, you know, decisions and all of that on Cosmos.
So, this is the idea we are toying with at the moment for PAX. But we will be, like, creating, like, very, very, very detailed proposal on that in the near future.
And we also have some other, like, initiatives called – or initiative called Alchemist Labs.
It should be – it should serve as a community of builders that are building, like, web-free products.
And it should, like, kind of, like, gather, yeah, like, like, minds together.
And for that, we prepared, like, the NFT that should, like – that should, you know, be also, like, some sort of, like, funding for us, but not, like, per se.
But, like, by owning it, by holding it, like, you would get, like, some sort of, you know, added value in the other products that we are building.
So, namely, if it was, like, LNS, you would get, like, a domain or some free domains or, I don't know, what not.
On tags, you would get, like, free, like, tire for having a DAO there or anything like that.
So, yeah, we are interconnecting different things and creating some sort of, like, a product ecosystem, if that makes sense.
It does to me because we've spoken about this at length already.
I mean, do you want to share the website so people could maybe go and have a little look and read a bit more for themselves?
Yeah, for sure.
I'm just sharing the website.
Where can I share it here?
Or, I suppose, if you've got a tweet made up, that would be, in fact, I can go, we can just see it.
So, yeah, if you're interested in having a look, I think it's a very Terra-looking website, even though there's no sort of DAB attached to it at the moment.
But if you want to have a look at these Alchemist Wolves and find out more about who's involved with Alchemist Labs, it's just at alchemistlabs.xyz.
And this is a potential sort of NFT project that you guys are going to be releasing at some stage, hopefully when the market kind of turns around and people are more interested in splashing out on some NFTs.
And what I like about these is that they are more than just like PFPs.
Obviously, there's that aspect to them.
But you've been talking about or we've been talking about like the utility behind owning these NFTs.
So there was one of the wrecked gang in this call a bit earlier.
And I think that's one thing the wrecked wolves have done really well.
I mean, they are PFPs, but there's such a really tight community.
They are in that wrecked gang.
And then they've got all the sort of the data spreadsheets that they share about NFTs.
And yeah, there's definitely utility to being in that group.
So potentially these Alchemist Wolves are going to offer something as well.
Yeah, that's what we are thinking.
I think we will need to wait for a bit, as you mentioned, for a bit better conditions market-wise.
But yeah, we definitely want to launch them and offer additional utility for our users or future users of our products.
So definitely, yeah.
And build a strong community around that.
So that's the whole point pretty much.
Yeah.
Cool.
And just sort of going back to the funding that both PAX and Eris received.
In fact, just going over the funding for PAX, first of all.
Have you kind of incorporated the emergency funding you received from PAX just to kind of build everything that you're building for PAX and LNS?
Or did you somehow keep the PAX money separate?
No, no, no.
It's the same team pretty much.
Right, yeah.
Yeah.
It was like a product that we...
Pretty much like it was for PAX.
But yeah, as I spoke before already, we were building PAX.
And yeah, we saw that the growth for DAO tooling wasn't on the chain that is not that active, wasn't really getting the traction.
So we were looking at something that could have more immediate value and so on and so forth.
So we didn't want to just wait and look at something and burn money.
But we wanted to build something that has value.
So therefore, we actually decided to build something else, which is LNS.
But yeah, before it was TNS, right?
Like we felt like it's missing and it wasn't on the Terra 2.0.
So we thought I was like, okay, let's do it.
And yeah.
That's kind of interesting, actually.
I don't know if the Terra name service are going to be coming back or not.
I've been keeping an eye on their Twitter account and they seem to be suggesting they're coming back.
I don't know who's behind that team.
So I've got no sort of special knowledge on that.
But I think you raised an interesting point.
Like the products that you're building are similar to what we're doing at TFM in the sense that they're non-TVL products.
Yeah.
Which is kind of different to Eris.
Like the goal of Eris or one of the goals of Eris is to increase their TVL.
And that's quite a nice metric for some projects to indicate the value that they're bringing to a chain.
Do we think that that necessarily or possibly makes it easier for like TVL projects to get community funding?
Or is it harder in the sense that they're profit-making?
I'm still not 100% sure either way.
Do either of you guys have any opinions on that?
So in my opinion, TVL is usually a bad metric.
So because TVL, or at least when there is not much liquidity, it can be easily influenced right now.
And for example, for the Alliance module, we had yesterday this small call with Do, with the community, with the builders.
And he dropped some info that Lunar X will probably be used in the Alliance module because of TVL.
So the TVL is still very important metric in DeFi in general.
Because if you compare chains or ecosystems, the TVL in DeFi also show how much is the DeFi used.
And as long as it's not mercenary capital, so it's not just chasing the highest yields available.
It can show some kind of usage on a specific chain.
But in my opinion, it's only one of the metrics that is important.
For us, for example, it's also important to have some kind of community builders working together, providing some kind of utility to the chain.
So you can do everything from a single chain.
And this is also what TFL is working on.
And so they want to make some kind of integrated experience around Cosmos.
So no matter with which chain you interact or with which application or DeFi app you interact with, you can all do it from a single interface.
And you don't really care on which kind of blockchain it is deployed upon.
So I think that this is the direction it will go.
So the blockchain will not be as important as before.
TVL will still be important in the regard to how much a chain is used for the end user.
I pretty much agree with Philipp.
I mean, TVL is very important, but some projects, for example, like LNS, it's hard to judge it by TVL because it's not DeFi.
So there could be other metrics used, right?
For us, it's a good metric because we are a TVL project because we can very easily say this is the amount of TVL we need to be profitable or self-sustainable.
So we can set our goals based on TVL, but for example, for LNS, I would expect it's more about how many LNS are registered on Terra, how many are registered on Terra Classic to calculate these kind of metrics.
Yeah, possibly we can, yeah, some activity, like how many people are using these names.
Maybe I'm not sure if that's possible to track, but like, yeah, definitely the registrations, number of registrations and all of those things.
Yeah.
So I think it differs based on the project.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think that all kind of ties back to community funding.
It's like if a project's not, I mean, some projects might never be profitable on their own.
And I remember there was one funded recently in Tropic Labs who was doing some sort of like random number generation.
I don't fully understand exactly what it was, but like, I mean, they said in their proposal, listen, we're never going to be profitable.
We, to build this thing, either the community funds it or it doesn't.
But, and I suppose there are other projects like that that are either going to live or die based on community funding.
I mean, seeing as we've got some, we're all part of this community.
So, I mean, if there's anyone on the call that wants to sort of talk about their opinions on how the community fund should be used,
just raise your hand and we can get you up to share your opinions.
Because I think there are like strong opinions on kind of all sides.
Some people just literally don't want the community fund to be spent on anything and just keep it for,
I'm not sure exactly what it's to be kept for, but just like a rainy day and just don't give it away, I suppose.
So, because by giving away, or not giving away, but by releasing grants to projects to build stuff,
I mean, that's putting more Luna into circulation and a lot of building teams, not all,
but a lot of teams are going to say, right, we need to use this Luna to live.
So, we're going to sell it.
So, the more Luna in circulation, the sort of more price suppression there is going to be on everyone's Luna.
So, some people might think, well, let's just not put it into circulation and therefore hopefully the Luna that I'm holding is going to go higher.
So, I'll be a bit richer, as it were.
Yeah, this is a real difficult topic because in real-world economy, it's also something like the governance takes some kind of taxes
and then uses these funds to again invest into the economy.
And this is, for example, my opinion about the topic.
So, I think personally the community should make decisions on which projects they want to support
and invest into the ecosystem to let it grow.
But, of course, there is the other part that we will never be able to always find the right projects for Terra as well.
So, some of the funds will be spent on some things that will never be profitable or are useless in some way
or not great spending proposals.
Like, for example, based on the emergency funding, some teams received a lot of funds.
And there is the question in the community if that was useful or not.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sharing the similar opinion.
Like, yeah.
So, I agree that we have to be very, very careful what we fund.
But also, I think, I believe we...
It's a...
Yeah, it's a pretty tricky topic.
You don't want to, like, dilute or, like, put more Luna into circulation because of, yeah,
there's a pressure on the price.
But, yeah, if we are careful enough and, like, invest into projects that has...
Because you never know.
Like, you can see a proposal and say, like, oh, this has a lot of potential, but it will never go that way.
You know, it can be that case as well.
But, you know, picking a project that possibly should have, like, what could have, like, the, like, the, yeah, like, the biggest potential to be successful or used, I think, I think that's where we should be focused on.
But also, there might be some projects that could be beneficial for the community, but never profitable.
So, these projects can be also, like, considered, you know, because there might be some projects like that.
Or, yeah, so, it's a tricky topic.
So, yeah, but it's hard to, from my perspective, it's hard to generalize it.
Like, say, like, we have to fund, like, this kind of project or this kind of, it's very, it's based on each proposal and, like, yeah, it should be, like, very, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's super interesting, sort of, to consider how it's all going to work.
I mean, we've got some people from validators in the call.
I don't know if they want to step up and share some of their thoughts.
I mean, just wearing my, sort of, orbital command hat for a minute, I mean, I was an advocate for, like, when small, when I say small funding requests, like, funding requests of, like, I don't know, 20,000 Luna or so.
When they've come in since the emergency funding round, I was just of the opinion, like, yeah, just, just give it, give it to builders.
Like, let's get, give more stuff on chain or more, more projects building.
But, like, if, if I continued with that attitude forever and loads of people came in with small funding requests, like, we could burn through quite a lot of the community pool.
So, I wonder how much value that would bring to the ecosystem.
But at the same time, I don't want to necessarily vote against people building stuff just because I don't think, or I want to maintain the community pool.
And I think it also, sort of, raises an interesting issue regarding, sorry, I'm just kind of taking over and talking for a little bit, excuse me, but just one last point is, like, I mean, some projects, or it would be quite possible that a project could put a lot of work into a proposal, make a proposal look great, and, and get funding, and then do nothing.
Whereas another team may actually be a real strong team of builders, but thinking, oh, I don't want to focus too much on this funding proposal, we'll just chuck something in.
And then they don't get funded.
So, it's like, how much time and effort do you have to put into this proposal to get the funding you need to do the building you want?
Quite a difficult decision.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure, yeah.
Therefore, what I was mentioning before, like, I believe in investing as well, because, you know, like, I don't think, like, you, for example, you ask for 100,000 Luna, and you get it right away, everything.
Like, I think it makes sense to invest.
That's my opinion only, like, it also, like, it works for other grants, if you get, like, some grants on other chains as well.
Like, there are most of them, like, you get, like, 50% before, and then, you know, you have roadmap, and then you have, for example, four milestones, and you have, like, a fifth milestone that is, like, a success milestone, and then you get, like, you know, you get 15%, and then 20, 20, 20, and then, like, at the end, you would get, like, the rest.
And if something happens in between, if the team doesn't deliver, then, like, the funds, like, are stopped, you know, like, they won't be transferred to the team.
So, that's one option.
That's just, like, an option to consider.
And in terms of, like, how much time you should invest into creating proposals, yeah, I'm also an advocate, like, of not over-investing, because, yeah, it should be super clear.
It should be, like, a pitch to an investor.
It should be clear what you want to do.
Yeah, like, also, it would be interesting to have, like, a few chats with the community.
With a council, if there's any.
And, you know, I think, yeah, personally, I wouldn't over-invest into that and focus on what's important, and that's users and building and finding a PMF.
So, that is my opinion.
I can see Philip's still staying muted, but, yeah, he's still staying muted just now.
So, that's one thing that kind of disappoints me a little bit with regards to, like, community, and that is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of engagement on the Agora community forum.
And I think that's a shame.
I think Agora doesn't help themselves in the sense that often there's, like, problems with the site loading.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Users, like, were not able to connect a Ledger wallet, which is frustrating.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I would just love to see more engagement in the discussions on Agora, because often it seems like the – I mean, there are people that do engage, but because there's only a few of us that engage – well, not a few, but, I mean, not hundreds, shall I say.
Some people do kind of shout quite loudly, and because of that, it's almost as if, like, their opinion counts for more.
And I don't think that's necessarily the case.
It's just that there's so few voices.
If someone posts loads, it maybe seems that that opinion that they've got is a popular opinion.
So that's one thing I'd suggest for everyone in this call, if you read anything on Agora – well, first of all, if you're not going to Agora, go to Agora.
There's – I think both Pax and Eris have submitted their sort of update.
All projects that were – that received emergency funding should have, or by today – today's the deadline – submit a sort of update about what they've been building, what they've done with the funds, roadmap, and stuff like that.
But I still have to submit the TFM one, which I'll do within the hour, totally written and everything.
We're just confirming a few things.
So that's definitely worth checking out.
So, yeah, just Google Agora, I suppose, and get there and have a read, comment on anything that you find interesting.
Is that – so someone behind the Talos account there.
I wonder if Talos have updated their emergency builder proposal thing.
We'll see if – whoever's behind the Talos account, is that – oh, I've forgotten the – I'm not going to say a real name.
But the old Mr. Quasix – Captain Cookies.
It could well be Captain Cookies behind the Talos account.
We'll see if we'll get them up.
And just while we're waiting on Talos potentially coming up, do you guys have any opinions on teams that don't submit an update into Agora?
What do you think that means?
In my opinion, we should stop sending funds to teams that don't do the update.
Because we are funding a lot of teams and there is a lot of emergency allocation allocated to these projects.
And in my opinion, a one-hour update should be possible for every team to do.
And if they don't, they should stop the emergency allocation and re-give it to other projects that really need it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
If you're in the game building, I think it's not a problem for you to invest one hour to put something on the paper.
I mean, on Agora.
Absolutely.
I mean, it's not quite the same as doing a massive funding proposal to get hold of some sort of runway for the next six months or whatever.
Yeah, just a little update.
Yeah.
There really is no excuse.
And I think you've both mentioned it, or certainly Joseph has, regarding getting community funding, the importance of milestones.
I mean, that's something that I've noticed on some chains.
And I find it quite surprising that teams can literally get quite a nice allocation based on a pitch deck and then aren't really held accountable.
Which, I mean, I don't think that would be a good use of Terra community funding.
Like, if you don't meet your milestones, whatever they are, like funding stops, end of, would be.
And I think that would satisfy a lot of people in the community, especially the ones who don't want to give away funding or don't want to use the community pool.
They'll say, right, at least it's not just a free for all.
Exactly.
But at the same time, it would satisfy builders and teams who want to actually, like, ship stuff.
They're like, okay, if we do what we say we're going to do, we're going to get funded.
But it seems like quite good business.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like, as I mentioned in the beginning, it's like a deal, right?
Like, you're doing a deal with the community that is not like that one-sided kind of, like, thingy that you ask for something and you get it and you're not accountable, as you said.
So if you have milestones, if you have, like, this vesting thingy, I think it gets you accountable if you want to get it, get what you are asking for.
So I think it's good for both, for builders as well as for the community to, yeah.
So I like it.
Well, I have a question for you.
It's about the TVL proposal because right now, even though probably the community does not support the proposal anymore, but right now the emergency, you know, it's not called emergency allocation.
I mean, the builder mining grant, this is still active.
It's a still active proposal.
So what is about that?
Because I mean, of course, we have been started to build on Terra as well.
And our focus over the last month was to reach a high as possible TVL value because of that proposal.
Of course, it's any time you create some kind of proposal where you have some kind of goals or specific metrics to define how much funding you get, you will always have some kind of teams optimizing to reach that kind of number, for example.
So, so, so for us, for example, it also was some kind of a deal with the community to go for, for TVL and right, right now it's, it's, it has been completely changed and replaced with no, we don't fund anything right now.
So, yeah, that's, it's a, it's a, it's a tricky situation.
Yeah.
Actually, we were also like, we were also like considering that like, yeah, that before, before, before those, those proposal.
So yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a tricky, tricky thing to go by.
But yeah, I don't have like the, the solution here or any, any, any, any, any answer, but yeah, definitely, definitely hard.
And it will be actually, I mean, like I'm asking myself, like how, how might we identify the teams that are real, that are building for real?
Like, and, and, and those, those teams, I think they, they wouldn't have to have like any, I don't know, like maybe Westing, I don't know, but it's, it's hard to distinguish like what, what, what, what, what, like, you know, or at least that's how I think about this.
Like, or, or the, the biggest problem is like, you know, like to, because like, for example, you like Aries is like a hundred percent, you know, like committed to it and the great team, but how might we, how might we, um, you know, um, um, how might we find out that like the other teams are like that?
Like, you know, um, yeah, I think that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's why I, I was so in favor of, of the expedition program because, uh, I, I would love to have some kind of committee, uh, checking these projects out, uh, checking the teams, but, but a lot, working a lot closer than with,
the emergency allocation council because this was very far away because the people didn't have time for it or they, they didn't want to interact too much with, with the projects.
And I would have enjoyed working also with the council about, uh, counseling as well.
So we, we can kind of pitch an idea of what direction we want to go in and, um, on, on the, on the small way between the council, some kind of business people, and even maybe someone with VC background that knows how to,
get the most out of an investment because I don't think, for example, that all, um, people in the community can decide the same way as someone who, who does it all day long, every, every, every day of the year.
Exactly. Um, and, and, and so I, I would have loved to have this kind of council where you can, every time you can pitch some kind of ideas and the council can also create some kind of grants for specific tasks that are missing in the ecosystem that we want to, to, to build up.
Um, and, um, I, I really hope, uh, rebel that, that there will still be some kind of expedition program similar, maybe a little bit different, um, as, as the, the current one, but, um, that we still have this kind of governance.
Sure. I, I mean, the, the terror expedition one, it was, um, I mean, it was, it kind of came, I don't know if it came. Yeah. I mean, it kind of came from TFL as well.
Um, I mean, just because that one is not continuing doesn't mean, I mean, anyone from the community, I suppose, could, could put a proposal up.
Um, and I think these, um, committees are, I mean, I was proposed to be on the first committee. Um, and I mean, I don't have any VC background.
I've, I've, I've, I've started a real world business, um, that, that wasn't successful.
So I don't know if that's necessarily good experience, bad experience, or, or, of, of no experience.
Um, when it comes to sort of being a community member or being a committee member for something like that.
But I, I think there would always be people who think they could do a better job on a committee.
There would be all some people who think that the proposed committee is maybe not good and et cetera.
So it would be really hard.
I mean, just, just like, um, voting for politicians.
Um, some people are really happy with the politicians they get and others, they're just terrible.
So I, I don't know necessarily where terror expedition goes from here, but I think, I think you make a, like, a really good point that if, if you had the same people, whoever the people are, um, evaluating a bunch of proposals, there would be some sort of consistency, which I think would kind of be a positive thing.
Um, but then again, I mean, if, if they're consistently making poor decisions, that, that would be pretty bad as well.
Um, I, we've, we've been chatting for a while.
I've been hogging the mic for quite a bit as well, guys.
Sorry about that.
I normally like to, um, ask guests more stuff.
One thing I definitely would like to say though, is the terror underscore Agora Twitter channel, um, is a good one to follow.
I've just posted, and this is basically the terror governance alerts.
So whenever a new, um, proposal goes up for voting, or whenever a new governance proposal goes in on Agora, it pings you a message, um, on Telegram, which I think is pretty cool.
Um, I, I just want to see more people getting involved with governance, however that looks for them, whether that's just reading proposals, posting on Agora, sharing their ideas on Twitter.
I just think the more of us that are, I just think the more of us that are involved with talking about what we want within the terror community, and when we're all stakeholders, because we're here.
Um, yeah, that, that's kind of what I want to say.
Just, just, just get involved.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah, definitely.
I will, I will give it a follow.
We'll be following.
We are, but yeah, we should all be more active.
I agree.
Sorry.
I mean, sorry, that goes without saying, I was assuming, assuming the builders are active.
You, you guys have definitely submitted your, um, your update.
I'm just looking with the white whale have jumped in.
We have white whale, um, submitted an update.
I don't see it yet.
Well, I don't see the TFM one there either.
So we definitely need to step on that.
Right.
Here is someone involved in governance.
He's just jumped in at the last minute.
Max, do you want to come up?
We've been talking about governance, um, and what, and a host of different topics, Max.
But do you want to come up and say anything about governance and why people should get
involved with governance?
Because I know you're quite heavily involved, certainly on Astroport.
Um, do you want to stick your hand up, Max?
Come on, man.
I'm going to invite you up anyway.
I'm not sure who's on the white whale account this evening, but yeah, if white whale want
to jump up and say anything, you'd be more than welcome.
Hey, white whale's waving.
I think an invite is going out.
Um, any, any sort of closing?
Oh, here's Max.
Max, do you got any questions for either Eris or LNS?
Or do you want to just tell us a little bit about why?
I mean, I'd be interested.
Hey, I got you there.
I'd be interested here why you are so interested in governance yourself.
Hey, guys.
Hey, guys.
Sorry, I'm just driving back.
Yeah, I think, um, governance is pretty important for, you know, just community that you're
trying to be involved in because, um, that's probably one of the few places that you can
sort of influence how the protocol's direction is.
Um, I think that's the reason, one of the main motivation why we should be a little bit
more involved in governance, um, I think whether, whether you, you have a right to change the
direction of the protocol, uh, it really depends how you engage with the community, right?
But probably I have questions about, you know, um, how about protocols without a framework of
governance, right?
So let's just say, for example, like the, uh, uh, uh, for, for Aris right now, probably
for you, Phillip, um, there isn't a forum or whatsoever to, to have the community speak
to Aris and in terms of discussing how the vision of Aris is, um, how do you think protocols
like yours, uh, will be able to sort of like engage with the community much better?
Um, yeah, probably that's a very quick question.
Yeah.
It's also a very difficult question because right now we are like, like, you know, a very
small team of four or five people and we are all very focused on our development and product
aspect.
And we are just right now in the process of also trying to, to create some kind of marketing
strategy and also community building strategy because we, we are, we are not the community
builders or the biggest community builders.
And right now we do everything over telegram.
So it's, it's not great, especially because we, we have multiple different communities like,
uh, the Terra Classic, uh, people are also there because we have also launched on Terra Classic
and we, we will also have more chains with Juno, uh, and Kujira, for example.
So, um, for us, we, we, we will probably set up a Discord server as well, similar to what
Astropod is doing.
Um, but in my opinion, the best thing would be to have one shared Discord with every protocol
in there, uh, having some kind of interaction.
I think, uh, Terra also has it, but as far as I can see, the, the telegram communities are
a lot more active, uh, than the Discord community is, but, uh, I might, might be wrong, but what
is your opinion?
What is the best way to interact with the community?
Um, I, I, I think, uh, every single Discord has different levels of activity.
Um, so maybe like if you see how Astropod's community is right, um, not everyone communicates
on a regular basis, um, I think in terms of, like, White Whale, I'm actually in there, but
I'm not talking a lot in White Whale.
Um, perhaps the team can, can, can speak more about, you know, how the, the community in
one aspect, um, is supportive with certain things that the protocol does and when the
ties change and, you know, you have an angry mob of group of people that is just like, uh,
just screaming down at the protocol, uh, for doing certain things as well, which is
for the protocol itself.
Um, so I, I don't think there is a perfect, um, sort of engagement way of, for, for governance.
Uh, in fact, I think just most DeFi protocols or even governance are just chaos, right?
Um, but I think you need to thrive in that.
Um, yeah, I, I, I also think that the most difficult part is to how do we get more people
involved in governance and also, um, there is always, uh, two kinds of people.
One is the, the passive reader.
So they, they probably read a lot of, of Twitter updates of governance updates, but don't actively,
um, tell their opinion, um, on certain matters on the governance forums.
And I think the best would be to activate, uh, this community to also, um, say, uh, what
they are thinking about it because, um, the, the, in, in the builder community, there are
a lot of, or a couple of, um, like a rebel said, there are voices that are louder and there
are many voices that are not being heard.
And even, even if it's only as a small answer, like, uh, yeah, we would support it.
Uh, we, we like the proposal or something like that, um, is, is, is a huge benefit, um, to
the creator of the proposal if the community supports it.
So I, I also can only say it would be awesome for anyone, um, who writes their opinion.
And it's always great insight to get direct feedback from the community.
Awesome.
Thanks for your thoughts, guys.
We've, we've already exceeded an hour, but we've got White Whale stepping up.
I don't know who's behind the account.
It's a secret ninja.
That's me.
Correct.
Hello, sir.
Um, quick question for you then.
Uh, the emergency builder update.
Do you guys think you're going to get yours in today?
Yeah, it's today or tomorrow.
I'm actually sitting on it right now.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
You and me both.
I think I'm going to get, going to get our submitted after this call.
And, and what's your opinion on projects that don't manage to get this done?
What, what, what excuses really are there?
I mean, we've, we've known about this for like over a week.
Um, yeah, I mean, um, it, it really depends, right?
Um, I mean, if there, if these, uh, projects communicate in a different way, I think it,
it's kind of excusable, you know, like if you see like much progress on Twitter or some,
something else, but in, in, in most cases, and I think that's what you're referring to
is when projects don't communicate at all and don't post, um, don't post on the forum,
uh, that's then a problem.
I think so too.
And, um, yeah, I, I, I, I don't think there, there is really an excuse there other than,
um, maybe it should be like more, more visible for, for projects or maybe like a more, a more
remarkable reminder that, that you have to, to post on this forum again.
Um, but other than that, there's really no excuse.
Yeah.
Well, I think you were, were sort of thinking along similar lines there.
I'm going to have to step off guys, but, um, is anyone any sort of closing words, anything
they want to get off their chest before we shut this down?
Well, our silence speaks volumes there.
Yeah.
I just like to reiterate everyone in this call.
I would love to see you involved on Agora.
If you've not signed, if you've never been to Agora, just go and have a look.
If you have been to Agora and you haven't logged in, that is the next step.
If you've been to Agora, you've logged in, but you've never posted, maybe it's time to
just add a little comment.
Um, and I think slowly, but surely we can just get more of the community into Agora involved
in like the official governance there.
And obviously like as, as Max was talking about, um, all the projects have their own sort
of methods of communication typically, um, discussed or governance is discussed in discord.
Um, sometimes a bit on telegram personally, I'm a discord man myself.
Um, but yeah, thanks everyone for being here.
Joseph has stepped down, but thank you very much for telling us all about the LNS.
We, so that, so this competition that has been running for a few days, we, I'll get together
with Joseph and we'll work out who, out of all the people that retweeted that tweet that's
still in the pinned tweets.
I think basically we'll shut that down once this, once this call finishes any further
retweets aren't going to count.
In fact, that's not going to work because I don't know how we could cut that off.
We'll get together tomorrow and hopefully we'll just pick some people that are going
to win these Luna name service names and Joseph or someone from their team will be able to
reach out to you.
Thanks everyone for being here.
And yeah, look forward to speaking to you again soon.
See ya.
Bye.
