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THE #1 CRYPTO SECTOR?? Web3 Exposed🧽🎙️
Recorded: May 6, 2025 Duration: 2:28:30Space Recording
Short Summary
The crypto community is buzzing with excitement as new projects and partnerships emerge, signaling growth and innovation in the space. With BZ's impressive trading volume and the anticipation of an altcoin season, the landscape is shifting, highlighting the importance of strategic collaborations and genuine value creation.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you
Yo, my check my chair
My check is working Mic check. Is it working?
Oh, it's working.
Yesterday was not working.
And then Will thought he was funny, making jokes. I think he's a better analysis than he is a comedian.
Then he is a comedian.
I do like the new PFP.
It makes him look more edgy.
When he talks that shit, it's a lot better.
All right.
Let's get this show on the road But that ain't the only way I got a whole list of shit Got a whole list of hoes, different hoes
Pick a bitch, pick a boo
I'll be with you after I hit the bitch
My dog them got rollies, but I'm trying to get us richy rich
More rich
If I had a choice, we'd be on Forbes' list
Would you be poor rich?
Would you be
Yo, if this isn't obvious, by the way
Like, playing around about anything crazy And, you know know the playing with your life and all that like
that's not a funny i see a lot of shit on the timeline today and i don't know what has gotten
into some of people like some people like i don't understand so this this you know none of that
stuff is funny uh if you're thinking of harming yourself, you should definitely contact a professional.
I don't know why there's not a line when it comes to some of this stuff.
Some people have a line, but I don't know.
On the timeline, there's not many lines, but I just wanted to say that.
Welcome to the show. We're about to start.
Hopefully, I sound a little better.
I feel amazing. I just had
some banging Chinese food and I had a super productive day. I am hosting a super sick event
this weekend in Miami that I'm excited to share. It's like real web too, but it's still dope because
there's a crossover and I'm just super hyped about it. But anyway, we're going to get into all the cool shit today, all the relevant news. I think BZ's trading on top 15 or top 20
on OpenSea, which is awesome, especially because we don't bought our volume, LOL, LOL. But we're
going to jump into all the things today. Let's get ready. Like, comment, repost if you haven't already. Drop a comment. Tag your EVM
address. Tag a friend. Maybe even tag William and remind them that we need him here every single
day on this show and to stop having life, anything going on in life, good or bad, because we need him
here. We need him only focused here only. Let's get it. Oh Dímelo, mami, quiero conocer más de ti.
Dicen que tú te la pasas preguntando por mí.
¿Qué vamos a hacer?
Apaguece, déjate ver, estoy aquí. No. I want to know.
I want to know, guys.
I know Melina knows the answer.
Do you guys think when the crypto bros hear this type of music,
do you think they know how to shake it to the max or do they just sit against the wall?
I wish they'd know how to shake it to the max.
They just sit against the wall.
Unless it's been the fucking full day of events for the bro.
He's drinking everything in sight.
He doesn't even remember his name.
He might start shaking it to the max.
For sure.
Absolutely.
My favorite is when they're still trying to hit whatever obligations they got to hit.
The other night, my last night in Dubai, I was having some shisha, having a drink, just eating.
You know, everybody's just, you know, just calming down, relaxing.
And this dude's like, doesn't know me for shit, just met me, and he's like, yo,
you know, whatever is what I do, blah, blah, blah, whatever, and then at the end of it, I'm like,
in the middle of my freaking just delicious waggy youth slider, and he's like, hey, you, by the way,
you, uh, you down to shoot this, uh, piece of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, what?
I'm like, what?
You got some obligations you need to finish up, huh?
So, yeah, I got like 70 pieces of content in 99.
I was like, all right, listen, I respect it.
I get it.
Any other day, I would say yes.
But right now, I'm enjoying this slider.
Catch me on another day.
Catch me on another day. Take it to the back.
Please just, you might, let me see you. Back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back, back. I'm enjoying this slider. Catch me on another day. Catch me on another day. Are you dealing with the boys? Make your comfort. Could I never take a last? Like a ball.
Pump up the pussy fast.
Skin out the pussy for me.
Fuck it.
Y'all are making cacky bra.
Original.
Y'all.
Some of them are the knackers.
Knackers.
And if you hear this, I'm going to the back.
Going to the knees.
Baby, sick it to the max.
Baby, please.
And I'll be pleased to be maxed. Welcome to the show.
We're about to start in 47 seconds.
Like, comment comment repost drop
Your EVM address tag a friend and if you want extra credit repost the space, baby, let's go
Got a lot to talk about a lot of good stuff cooking a lot of good stuff cooking
You know, it is crazy though?
I've been noticing more and more certain teams that you used to hear from 22, 23.
They are dying off.
They're dying off.
I can't wait until Matt comes here and talks about this.
But you know, if the company you are,
whether you're bag holding, you're invested in,
you're working for, whatever it is,
if there's no such thing as some sort of like
super mega war chest,
you gotta really be questioning your longevity there.
And whether it's an investment, whatever it is,
because in reality,
there's going to be things that are going to start to come.
It's already happening that are going to run circles around it.
And I'm not going to just, you know, speak on Sui
because like Sui is a hot topic of the timeline at the moment.
But dude, they're running circles around so many, uh, things that
have just been out for a long time. I would argue Sui is going to beat out Monad, you know, and I'm
not into like comparing, I think all chains are useful in their own way and some better than
others for certain things. Obviously. Um, I think some have an actual marketing problem. That's a
whole other conversation, but like this, what I'm getting at is for a long time, it was just like, new this, new that, let's jump in,
let's do this. And then it was hard to decipher what's going to last long. Now you have things
coming out, funded, backed, collab this, collab that with high level company, fill in your
favorite super high level NASDAQ company, whatever.
And those are going to clearly outperform whatever else that's been here for years,
not barely doing shit. It's just inevitable. So definitely don't get left behind and don't stay stuck to something. I remember when I was so stuck to my polka dot bags and my chain link bags
because it was those two amazing things. And they're great ecos. I'm definitely still bullish. Uh, but from a price point, yo, make, make money and, and
continue to reinvest in the sectors that are going to, that are going to move further, not just from
a price level, but on all levels. Cause that's, that's ideally how you protect, uh, your time,
your investment, right? That's, that's truly what I feel. I feel. So let's get this show on the road.
Hold on.
All right. Happy Monday, everybody. Welcome to the show. Web3 Exposed is officially started.
We go live every single day here on X, 6.30 Eastern,
Monday through Friday, except Wednesdays. Thank you for being here. Second day back.
It's been awesome. I feel well rested. Some people are like, yo, how are you doing with
the jet lag? I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it's catching up to me later, but definitely decent.
Slept a nice 10 hours and then I slept 10 hours yesterday on the flight back. So I'm
definitely, I definitely stayed up late to like purposely have a good night's sleep. But yeah,
I feel really good. I feel super, super good. Still at my mom's house. Wanted to spend some
time with her before I leave since it is Mother's Day weekend. So yeah, still, sorry if you don't
hear these background noises and different birds and chickens, luckily the chickens are being nice and not yelling at me right now.
But, um, anyway, let's get this, let's get this rolling. Let's get this rocking. Uh, let me go
to my bookmarks real quick. Cause I did want to kind of mention some stuff here that I saw
today on the, on the timeline. Um, so this whole zero bro thing, I think is first of all, pretty pathetic.
Not really shocked and not trying to sound insensitive. But what I'm getting at is this
every piece of just AI vapor where we were shilled in the last 10 months is just like,
it's just shitty all around. Like, and then on top of
that, now you have this stupid news that came out of like faking deaths and things. And then,
you know, whatever I'll pin up like something to the tops to kind of go into it. But, um,
I don't think it's a joke to, uh, use suicide or death or anything like that. Um, at all,
suicide or death or anything like that at all. It's just hard stop, just period. And it sucks
because I know, you know, I've seen some posts today in the timeline and some comments and
some people have decided to like, you know, move forward from certain groups and people that they
kind of hang out with or whatever. And I know it sucks. You know, you learn how people are,
unfortunately, in these weird situations where you're like, oh, that's how you operate or,
oh, that's how you feel or, oh, that's how you think or, oh, you think that's okay.
I mean, it happens to me, unfortunately, more than I wish it would where, you know,
I'll give you guys an example because it fairly, it recently just happened. I highly respect a
certain group, an entity, company, right? Leaders in the space.
And then, you know, I'll argue and say that I was gaslit.
And I was told, hey, you know, we want to hear you out.
We want to hear what the issue is.
Talk to us.
And I'm like, okay, if I do that, if I show you the proof,
are you going to actually take what I'm saying into consideration?
Or are you going to gaslight me and act like you care and kind of do the whole PR bullshit?
And obviously, you guys know what happened next.
Let's go figure.
Nobody cares a shit.
Let's be honest.
But I hope it don't sound too negative.
What I'm getting at is, unfortunately, even some of the biggest, most respected entities sometimes show you how they really feel by operating in the ways they operate.
And, you know, it doesn't feel good sometimes to kind of see how that is.
But what I'm getting at is don't let that deter you.
Don't let that change your vision or your focus.
I saw all the tweets today of like, you guys could do two minutes of research.
You could see like a lot of this shit was bullshit. Um, whatever that now here or there, I know some of us just need
the engagement. So whatever, you know, but I guess what I'm saying is, uh, just do a little
bit of research before talking about some of this stuff, because man, um, it, you know, it helps.
It'll, it'll help. It'll help a ton. It'll help a ton.
Let me see. Let me see what else through my boop.
Still haven't clicked that motherfucking button.
Still haven't clicked that button, and I'm hoping this airdrop, you know,
doesn't, like, 50x overnight, and then I'm, like, FOMO-ing into clicking the button.
No, but I think anybody that is claiming right now, I've been watching the leaderboards, pretty interesting to see. I mean,
I give the people that are in the meme space that are a huge, huge name or platform, I give them
some props. They're trying, right? At least they're not like, yeah, let's go. They're putting don't buy or they're
putting tests. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but hey, look, they don't even have to
fucking do that. It's a claim and they're trying. Giving props for that. That's my two cents on
that. I see a lot of people getting bent out of shape. Can't say I'm shocked. I think if it was
2021, I too would be bent out of shape. But I've, I think I've
personally overgiven way too much emotion and energy to this space and not in a negative way
of like, I'm never going to do that because I'm never going to change. But man, you guys don't
deserve it. Melina knows what I'm talking about. Will knows what I'm talking about. Ruto probably
does too. Matt for sure does. You know, space doesn't
deserve so much of our energy as much as we want to express. I love using Twitter as a diary. I'll
never stop doing that. I'm always going to do that because I know there's someone out there that
appreciates it and it helps them move forward even another day, another month, because, yo,
it doesn't feel good when you
feel like what you feel or how you perceive things is alone. Like, oh, I must be crazy.
Everybody's, you know, no, you're not crazy, man. You're not fucking crazy. I promise you're not
crazy. We have a few updates. There is a giveaway happening. As soon as this post hits 150 comments, I'm going to give away this
PSA 10 Pokemon card valued at over $100. All you had to do was repost the post,
follow BZ, tag a friend, as well as screenshot your account created on BZ.
We're almost there. I think we're almost at 100 likes. Pretty sure it'll get to that
150 here in just a second. Hey, maybe if it doesn't, fuck it, we'll still give it away.
Giving it away today on the show at some time.
And we're going to go into some new dApps, new protocols, altcoins that are popping off.
I mean, Alex Becker got to be right.
He's made the same post for this fucking past year and a half.
He has to be right eventually.
Altcoin season has to be coming, right?
It has to be coming.
So I'm definitely interested in hearing what Will's doubling down on, if any.
And yeah, without further ado, Mr. Will, the man of the hour.
Welcome to the show.
I appreciate your time.
What's going on?
How's those markers looking?
Oh, I forgot he gets a little stage fright, guys.
Forgive me.
Hold on a second.
Yeah, you're good.
Go ahead.
I said muted by host. Oh, you're a co-host too, that's weird
I'm good
Oh man, I don't know
One day
One day
It's never going to get funny
Not even bullshit ourselves
It's not going to happen
Tech is hard.
Coding is hard.
You can't fix, you know, tiny bugs.
It's too difficult to do those kind of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I don't know.
Like I've been, I've been watching a lot of different,
like we'll say like podcasts and listening to a lot of people's opinions.
I think there's a very
split down the middle uh opinion of you know direction of markets and so on and so forth
not not that any of that really matters to me from like a chart perspective but i like to hear
other people's views on those type of things and kind of see how other people are managing it um
and kind of what their thoughts are. And I listen to both sides.
Really.
I listened to the bull and the bear,
you know,
conversations and try to listen to the points that make sense and not
really the points where they're just pulling shit out of their ass.
Cause I think there's a lot of that.
That's just more for entertainment purposes than it is reality.
There's a lot of people who talk from like personal perspective and not
like global or markets or anything like that.
I noticed that a lot too, especially here on Twitter. There's a lot of people are like, well markets or anything like that. I noticed that a
lot too, especially here on Twitter. There's a lot of people are like, well, that's, that's not,
that's not the people I know. And it's like, you're talking from your own personal perspective.
You're not talking about everybody else. You're talking about how, how the market's affecting you
financially. But I mean, like, I don't know. Macro is a little bit of a tougher beast because I'm kind of in agreeance in some ways with some of the bearish theses on macro.
I just think it's a little further out.
We've discussed that a couple of times.
I'm kind of thinking like where we're sitting right now with Bitcoin, it's kind of a position where you got to be a little cautious here.
it's kind of a position where you got to be a little cautious here almost because like you got
that you got that hammer here on that weekly close over here around the uh the 28th of april
and that's that's a that's a bearish hammer and then you got like this push up here
with no real wick at the low they They have to do one of two things.
They got to flip up here above 100,
or this thing's going to roll here at this doji.
It has to flip by one.
I'd say you got probably two, three weeks tops.
And if you don't do that, you're likely going to get some big.
Bitcoin Vegas is soon, bro.
Well, I mean, these events have not been benefiting
price you got to keep in mind what do the events do they extract liquidity you come there you spend
money you're buying a room you're you're buying stuff for the event you're getting drinks how are
you doing that in a lot of people's cases on a lot of people's cases all their money's tied up
in crypto so you're probably selling some crypto to spend some money and then that's not really helping price action it's almost like
eat denver right like eat denver has been negative on price price action i can't even count how many
times it's been a dump event by the foundation every time eat den Denver comes along. They're like, oh, yeah, everybody get bulled up for 8th Denver,
and then they dump on you.
But, yeah, as far as price action goes,
I'd say you got like two or three weeks you got to push out of this location.
I just don't like seeing these small candles at a position
where you really have to get through this range, right?
And we're not really
seeing a lot of hype and activity as far as in the chart at this level right 100k needs to get
flipped if you can't flip 100k here this this is gonna this is kind of like a roll zone in my
opinion i think if you sit up here and hesitate below 100 another week maybe two
you got a little while to kind of feel it out you're gonna likely come back down to low this
again i talked about this the other day but this is an expanding wedge right that's all it is a
megaphone pattern so it starts out small at the high from the consolidation range it just continues
to expand from low to high as you kind of break
towards the downside so i posted a chart up top there too um just for people to kind of follow
what i'm talking about here but like if this thing rolls it's gonna roll probably pretty freaking
deep um i don't think you're gonna really catch a level i think you're gonna catch a low and then
you're gonna come back up in a big way
and kind of find that foundation again just going into that q4 that's that's what it really looks
like to me a lot of this looks like some kind of like pulling of liquidity and we're seeing the
same thing i would say like we always talk about the altcoin market even the low or the high high
risk market right we'll just call it that like you can only see one or two runners at a time the liquidity flow is low the volume is low um you know things don't last
very long i mean elon changed this freaking photo to the photo of that mean coin and got one last
pump and then it died that was it like it's cooked after that i mean likely it might go
back up we'll see but ultimately it's good it's cooked after that. I mean, likely it might go back up. We'll see,
but ultimately it's good. So for me, from that perspective, I think that's a problem.
I watched this one analyst guy, he's really big on lumber and he's talking about how lumber sales
have been, you know, lumber prices are pretty much at the, at the floor. They can't go much
lower than that. Um, and you know And that really tells you where construction is.
It tells you where the market sentiment is. Construction isn't really there. Market sentiment
isn't really there. And again, I think it's just these tariffs are weighing on the economy in a
big way. Yes, we got the 90 day pause, but you got to remember pauses and actions
take time to settle in.
So it's, think of it always like a wave, right?
When you hear about something,
you're on the back end of that wave
and you're slowly start to catch up to that wave
as time goes on.
So like tariffs hit like two, three months later,
the economy starts to catch up
and realize tariffs, right?
It's never immediate.
Just like this pause, this pause will happen two, three months later, the economy starts to catch up and realize tariffs, right? It's never immediate. Just like this pause, this pause will happen two, three months later. Again,
just more incentive than to be thinking that Q4 will be the likely scenario where we'll see volume and liquidity flow back in and not right now. And then later on, again, once tariffs get
reactivated going into August, that will drag on into January, February, March of next year.
And that will likely play into my thesis of 2026 being a bearish year and not being bullish like people think it is.
So, you know, from my perspective, from a macro perspective, it's a little bit different than trading, right?
Because I try to use a little bit of both when I'm looking at charts.
I try to look at the macro perspective and i try to look at the the chart perspective chart perspective tells me
we might be likely rolling here but we'll likely catch a bottom because the way that the chart
pattern is building down into the right uh macro perspective again i you know it just tells me
again just be cautious right now like be be smart, wait for dips to buy.
If you're not buying a dip, you're not buying. You're just sitting on cash until you can catch
a dip. And if you can't catch a dip, you're not, you're not risking it all at the highs.
It's, this is not a market that will incentivize you for buying, buying high. It will not incentivize
you for that. In a bull, bull, bull market, you can get incentivized for buying high it will not incentivize you for that in a bull bull bull market you can get
incentivized for buying high because prices go higher but in this type of market where it's very
shaky and the market sentiment is really low i mean i know there's individuals who try to pretend
that it's high but market sentiment right now is low. And because the market sentiment is low, you don't want to be buying high ever.
You want to buy anytime people are panicking, crying, screaming, whining.
Prices are lower than they were previously, so on and so forth.
And I would honestly be taking this quarter by quarter.
That's the way I'd feel this out.
And I get this is not a market where you can go month by month.
You got to take this quarter by quarter. a quarter for those who don't know is every
three months, right?
Evaluate the market every three months, kind of take it for what it is and come back and
you can revisit the next three months.
You can probably catch a couple of plays and then come back and you can probably catch
a couple of plays, but the market's not really, it's not really an emotion type move, but
I do think there's lots of opportunities, right?
Like I think Sui's doing phenomenal for a market
like what we're in,
whereas other alt queens are getting absolutely demoed
in a market like what we're in.
And it really kind of shows you
what will likely be your runners
when the market does pay back up.
That's what it tells me.
When I see strength in a market that looks like this,
it means pay attention, look for dips.
But for now, it's kind of like, just take your time.
Just take your time.
You could DCA this market easy, I think.
Again, I just highly, highly, highly recommend that people really think
about the market where we're at right now.
And this is a high for me.
This is in a low.
So Bitcoin at 96, 97, 98 right now is high unless it can flip 100.
If it can flip 100, then it's a low, right?
And then you're looking at, okay, now I can start dialing in.
If it can't flip 100, look for something more in the 70k range
That's what I would be doing right now
Hey William
Can you see the post up top
That I just pinned by Nick
Choose Rich Nick
Uh no
Hold on give it a second
Give it a second
Hold on
This thing messes up for me.
No, I know.
Now you're going to tell me you can't see the fucking tweet.
Look at the tweet, Will.
All right, so I'll read the tweet for you, William.
The tweet says,
you ready, Will?
You listening?
Let's make sure he's listening, guys.
Yeah.
Testosterone and man over 43. that it not that one not that one
holy shit not that one all right all right so the biggest losers a quote on nick the biggest losers
i've come across are people trying to pump dead meme coins their entire brand identity revolves
around a token nobody cares about and they lose a fortune on shout out
mlg house gork chad mog holders laughing face and then uh there was uh tons of feedback and
motherfuckers were going back i don't know if it was a super troll not gonna fry i feel like it
wasn't a troll but i would love to hear your feedback on this specific post while we continue on with the show? I mean, what's the best way to catch attention in a market
like what we're seeing right now?
I guess it would be my question to anybody.
And we've talked about it, right?
I'll use the two words.
It's called rage bait.
He's rage baiting people into interacting with his posts
so he can get his paycheck for the month.
No offense.
Like, you know, like more power to you, Choose Nick.
We should do that.
We should do that.
Because look at his interactions there and look at his interactions on Fartcoin, on his Fartcoin post.
Right?
He's got 18K on his Fartcoin post.
He's got 116K on his rage coin posts right he's got 18k on his fart coin post he's got 116k on his rage bait post
he's got 21k on his ethereum post and he's got 116k on his rage bait post like people they just
gotta understand like what what people are doing in this space right there are a lot of people who are we'll call them air quotes entertainers and not real
analysts not real opinionators they just say what they know will get the clicks what will piss people
because the best way to get clicks is to piss people off i could sit online all day and piss
people off i mean that's that's not hard to do i could run my numbers up because people love it
they love seeing it as entertainment because there's always five people for every one person that gets pissed off that is being entertained by those
people getting pissed off so it's like a five to one ratio when you you seem like you're pissing
off the whole timeline but you're actually building up a lot more followers you're building
up a lot more views because you're rage baiting everybody right that's what a lot of people do in a space and then you got a lot of people who like pretend right like you see a lot of people
in the space they'll go and they'll rent a lambo or they'll rent some you know some rolex from their
local pawn shop for like 20 bucks a week or whatever you know some weird shit and they
they flex that shit on a time there's a lot of people in the
space to do that people go rent hotels around where they live and say this is my condo you
know it's a penthouse that they rented out for like a week and there's tons of people in the
space to do that kind of shit i think it works i think it works because rage bait can be like subject to cause like confusion. And when it comes to money,
um, it can, that can be like really effective. Like if you can confuse like a mass amount of
people over like how much money you're making or like how much money you're losing or whatever,
it just proves to be effective and it just drives adoption and then if you want to compare like the market cap of traditional markets like gold versus bitcoin
um then you'll realize that it's that like we're just we're still just sort of like maybe not
entirely in its infancy but not like but definitely not like fully embraced by everyone.
And it's only because it's in an ideal.
It's like you literally have to change everything
that you know about anything to become full Bitcoin
or crypto sort of worldwide kind of thing.
So yeah, I think you make a good point. Yeah. bitcoin or crypto sort of worldwide worldwide kind of thing so yeah i think yeah i think
we could point yeah i think i think a lot of people like they they do they go to like some
people will compare like they'll play look at look at the price of mog and look at the price of bitcoin
bog can surprise because like people make statements like that on a timeline all the time right just outrageous ridiculous statements that that don't that don't coincide but people will make them
and it's it's just the i'll be real like i i stay off the timeline a lot because
i really feel like consuming that mentally it doesn't really put you in a cult, but it doesn't benefit you in any way.
So it's almost like you're just sitting there picking your nose and looking at the wall when you're reading stuff like that.
And to me, like, that's not something I want to do with my time.
I want to make money with my time.
So if I'm not trading, I'm reading.
If I'm not reading, I'm learning.
If I'm not learning, I'm doing something productive.
And a lot of people think productivity is a waste of time and effort.
And a lot of dumb people will tell you productivity is a waste of time and effort when you can sit there and watch TV and get fat and drink Coke all day and all this other stuff.
No, no, no, no.
right you sort of once you get over that that like mental hurdle that a lot of what you see
on the timeline is like what you'll continue to see for like the for like the foreseeable future
and then once you get over that hurdle you can sort of focus on building and what I mean by that
is um just like focusing on the like the people and you know building that
network and because that's all it is at the end of the day right like crypto overall is just like
a network of whatever whatever you want to call it yeah i mean and and here's the thing too there's
a fast route and there's a slow route right the the fast route is the way a lot of these you know a lot a lot of the younger
generation is really when i say younger i mean like really young like 15 14 the up-and-coming
entertainers of the space when it comes to youtube and other channels right and kick and everything
else um a lot of them the way that they get the faster out is through the rage bait they start
initially with rage bait they start initially with click baiting people they start initially
with like you'll see a ton of big accounts on this on this platform that will
literally sit there and post a photo of something that they found on tick tock and get hundreds of
millions of views and they stole the content from somebody on tick tock because you can download
anything you want from tick tock like look at half of these videos that people post on here that are
outrageous and you can see the tick tock person that they stole it from right there in the video
And that's majority of the big accounts on here
It's it's actually crazy to me like how there's like no plagiarism
For like robbing people's content from other platforms and using it on this one
But you know, it is what it is
Yeah, it's just it's what the kids like it's like, you know, like anyone being born like this like, you know, it is what it is at the end of the day. Yeah. It's just, it's what the kids like. It's like, you know,
like anyone being born like this, like, you know,
now is sort of born with like, with like a tablet,
like out of the womb with a tablet with like a,
with like a phone or like the internet. And that's what the kids like.
It's just like, it's like, I see, you know,
it's like the effective way to sort of cause it's, I don't know.
Cause it's like comedic or, or like, you know, you said rage-baity.
It just, it works.
Yeah.
We're just in the midst of some sort of, some kind of experiment.
Yeah, I like how you put that sometimes.
I think with like the way things are right now,
everything on Twitter to me is backwards, right?
They tell you don't learn because you'll earn more money not learning.
They tell you don't go to school because you'll earn more money not going to school.
They'll tell you to, you know, work out every day, smoke cigars, do this and that.
Like, there's so much shit on here that's just like it it doesn't even make any logical
sense from a medical standpoint from history from like half the shit on here is just fake
it's just made up stuff but they tell you these things because everybody else tells you the
opposite because the opposite is what actually works but everybody tells you that and you want
to go against the grain so you're thinking that the guy is telling you to smoke the cigar
and you know drink the liquor and do this and that.
And you'll make millions of dollars.
Just keep clicking forever and just keep putting your money in every day and keep gambling.
Don't pay attention to what you're gambling on.
Don't look at the volume.
Don't look at the people behind it.
Don't look at none of that shit.
Just literally just gamble.
Those people are the people that people think they should follow.
And that's just not a logical standpoint.
It doesn't get you anywhere.
At the end of the day, they want you.
Those people want you to remain dumb.
That's why they put their wallet address out there for you.
So you can follow their wallet.
So when they go into a coin and you follow behind them and volume follows their buy they can
dump on you but they don't let you understand it they're like look you know if you catch the pump
at the right time you can get in and out with me that's that's that's the mentality with a lot of
this stuff in this space it's never like we can all eat it's like i'm gonna eat and if you catch it at the right time you might be able to eat
and you know this space is very very predatory on people it rather than saying and here here's
here's the kicker that i would tell people right because i i've been to college prophets have been
to college a lot of people have it's not about can you go to call or can you go to college and
it costs too much to and you can't really make a lot of or can you go to college and it costs too much to,
and you can't really make a lot of money.
you go to college and you pick the jobs that pay the most.
That's what you do.
I'm a dropout.
You pick,
you pick the colleges.
I mean,
you pick the jobs that pay the most.
You don't pick a job.
That's going to pay you $13 an hour when you get out of college.
It's just not logical,
obviously.
Right.
But nobody's going to tell you that they're just going to tell you, don't go to college and It's just not logical, obviously, right? But nobody's going
to tell you that. They're just going to tell you don't go to college and waste the time and effort,
waste the money. Like if you go to college for like a CRNA, for instance, right? So that's a
nurse anesthetist. That right there, that's 300K a year, 300K a year. But nobody talks about that.
They just talk about how you can't go to college and make
any money so again there's lots of ways to make money there's lots of ways to be intelligent
lots of ways to improve your life and not all the ways on here are actually a real way to improve
your life there are a lot of people on here who are bullshitters and they make money off
of your clicks and your likes and the money that you put in to follow them into coins
yeah 100 it's a toxic space i have my fair share of um like second guessing like what is the purpose
of everything and um it's a very toxic space it's very much the casino and you know you know like
because everyone is coming from a traditional uh sort of you know from a traditional world of like
universities and and careers and uh you know you have tech because people are coming in from that place, it's unfathomable
to lose the amount of money that people are losing.
And I know, and probably a lot of you know, where that money is going and the potential that it has for the future of crypto and Web3 and the people that are committed to it.
But yeah, if you don't see it as being dangerous physically or a toxic place, then first off, you probably aren't going to make it you're
going to lose a bunch of money and second off you uh you're just you're not going to see that you'll
be you'll just be like a bear you'll just be bearish and then um unfortunately we like you
know unfortunately those people go away until a blow-off top kind of thing.
And so, yeah, I think the point that you're making is it's important to be mindful of those things when you're on Twitter and on Telegram and interacting with your friends here
because people sort of need that connection.
Yo, are you in Farcoin?
I'm in the, yeah, I've got money anywhere.
Yeah, I mean, my...
Ladies and gentlemen, he just bought himself five more minutes on this stage.
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And yeah, let's continue on.
Ruto, what's up?
How you doing?
One more thing.
Hot air dissipates.
Hot air, right.
Hot air dissipates.
We're going to $10, not financial advice. Did you say hot air dissipates hot air right hot air dissipates we're going to ten dollars not financial advice you say hot air dissipates
damn bro crazy um yeah it's insane it's funny because uh far coins been all over the timeline
right and it's basically because it's probably the only coin from like that super crazy hype cycle
memes that is making any movement right now right there's been a couple small runners that we've
seen here and there and if you were in early on them you you made out pretty well on those but
i think it's a good segue to mention what you guys were just talking about where i actually made a
post about this today where we have bitcoin almost still at almost 100k. We have the best like regulation conditions we've
ever had. Blockchain tech continues to get better and scale and some really cool stuff is happening,
right? Like you even mentioned it at the top with Sui doing some partnerships with NVIDIA and stuff
like that. Like there's a lot of really cool and interesting shit going on the problem and i and i mentioned this on a tweet
today i was like how is it that we're at the place that we're at right now but the vibes on the
timeline are like near lows and if you look back if you've been here long enough like if you've
been here since 2020 or 2021 on ct um if you look back on what has caused like a lot of either camaraderie or like wag me vibes,
it's usually when we're in a cycle of like extreme high speculative vaporware where it's pretty easy to make money.
Obviously, none of these things have lasted or stood the test of time. And now,
I think cycle after cycle, we're kind of making more of a shift and a pivot towards actual use
cases, more innovation on chain, better partnerships that scale a lot of the blockchain tech out,
and all those things become less sexy cycle after cycle. And so I think we're seeing kind of lows on the timeline because
those things aren't sexy they're kind of boring right but at the same time we're we're in the
industry it's getting better and better cycle over cycle but the vaporware and like the high
speculative narratives are kind of shifting and becoming less of like the biggest mind shares on
the timeline so that's kind of my own personal take will said it best or i think it was well he's mentioning how you listen to people on the timeline they So that's kind of my own personal take. Will said it best,
or I think it was Will, he's mentioning how you listen to people on the timeline. They're like,
yeah, don't go to school, just keep clicking and shit like that. And listen, I get it. I remember
being 22 and 23 and reading articles on how to day trade and fucking Forex and all that other stuff,
thinking that there's like an easy way out of like accumulating wealth when in
reality accumulating wealth is just about building skill sets that you can trade for a lot of value
um and i feel like a lot of people in the timeline kind of just shill you know the the quick get
rich quick kind of stuff and obviously that you can do that here on chain but that makes up maybe
one to like you know less than three% of the people here that are actually making generational wealth, like the 18-year-old who's making seven figures.
That's one or 10 18-year-olds out of a million that are failing on chain.
You know what I mean?
And usually they're launchers, too.
Usually it's a launcher, just not even the 17 or 18-year-old that got lucky.
Most of the time it's a launcher.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then, you know,
it's a,
you know,
we have streamers on,
on Tik TOK who are like 20 years old.
They have 10,000 people watching their live stream and they're just dumping on copy traders. Like we're seeing this and this happened with NMTs,
right?
This happened in ICOs in 2017.
Also like it happened with being coins.
Like it's all the same shit with a different narrative,
right?
Social fi fucking friend tech, all that stuff. It's all the same stuff, right? It's always going to be the same shit with a different narrative right social fi fucking friend tech
all that stuff it's all the same stuff right it's always going to be the same stuff but um yeah i
just think we're in a much better regulation in tech period with blockchain tech and um it's only
getting better and there's a lot of shit to be excited about but people are just down and and
bored on the timeline because they don't have any other discernible skill sets that they can go and fucking do something with.
That was perfectly said,
Ruto.
That was that in part is exactly it.
Most people here have no,
and I'm not,
that's not,
that's not me like shitting on people.
Like anybody can get a skill set,
right?
But they're choosing not to,
and they're choosing to follow people rather than get a skill set, right? But they're choosing not to And they're choosing to follow people Rather than get a skill set
And the reality is
You want to follow people who will teach you a skill set
You don't want to follow people who continue
To give you a fish here and there
Because giving you a fish here and there
Is not teaching you anything
You're getting a win every once in a while
And then they're taking the rest of the world
You can still trade, like i i have still probably weekly traded for the last
five six years on chain but i'm still doing stuff on the side that's actually gonna like
have some security or support for myself in the next 10 or 20 years right like you can still play
on chain you can still uh jump into memes you can still, uh, jump into memes,
you can still, you know, leverage trade on perps, like, you can still do all this shit while still,
like, building yourself up and becoming, like, a more valuable person in the industry, but
most people don't really want to be, like, give value in the industry, they realistically just
want to try to make as much money as possible, which is fair, I'm not, I'm not dogging that,
I think that's
fucking fine dude like get your back but at the same time you can't whine bitch and complain and
cry because you're bored and there's not much action on chain uh when in reality you could
probably be using that time to do something more productive do you know what i mean
you know the only thing i will say though is that you know most people who uh do the productive
stuff um they don't uh they're not the most successful people in my opinion um it's kind of
it's kind of hard to say but uh i know a lot of people who went to school and they're like
managers now so yeah no i think i think what you're trying to say is that if you give your
all to the game the game will give back to you right
and i i agree because like i've been saying lately that like i can't i could i used to let's say like
two years ago or a year ago i could sit and scan for six hours a day seven hours a day and the
people who make it are usually the people who dedicate 10 12 15 16 hours on chain scanning or looking for opportunities on
chain i did that a lot in 2020 2021 2022 a lot more in like 2024 but i've dialed it back a bit
but i think you make a pretty reasonable um take there stone like the more you do the more you'll
get too you know what i mean yeah but i just think that that's with literally everything like if you want to go to school and like uh like learn some fucking you know trait
over there then you can go ahead and do that you know um if you want to be an actor you go learn
some traits over there you can you know go go do that but unless you put your all into it you're
not going to succeed it doesn't matter i'm starting my music career. Yeah. You can go crazy with it, Prophets.
You know, you actually can.
Like, anybody who...
I think if you put your mind to some shit,
you can do it.
You know?
That's just how I feel.
Nah, 100%.
But, like, here's the thing.
You're never going to be a professional singer
unless you got the vocals for it.
I don't know about that.
Have you heard of Juice WRLD?
Have you heard...
Like, I can tell you a lot of people, bro,
who do not have beautiful voices. We're not talking about outliers, though. We're not talking about outliers. Nah Like, I can tell you a lot of people, bro, who do not have beautiful voices.
We're not talking about outliers, though.
We're not talking about outliers.
Nah, but I mean, but the thing is that, like, I believe that, like, you have to be an outlier.
Hold on, hold on, Stone.
Wait, what does professional mean?
Because it can mean one thing for one person, something else for somebody else.
If I'm making multiple millions at something and I'm not a professional at it, quote unquote, to whoever else, I don't give a fuck because i'm making millions off of it exactly exactly and that's that's just my point that like
it's gonna take what it takes no matter where you go and what fucking genre you want to like
succeed in you know yeah i guess from from my perspective though stone just just a little bit
leaning into that is like if like i said like a musician right or somebody somebody
who sings right and you gave you gave juice world which is a good example um but like a percentage
but but here's the thing how many percentage of people could actually pull that off right
it would be a very low percentage of people that could actually pull that off and whereas like if
you put somebody in a room and said,
Hey,
become an electrical engineer.
Yes.
The numbers would be low too,
but there would be nowhere as near as low as something like somebody
trying to be a singer.
Right.
And,
and being able to pull that off because it takes more than just the
talent of the voice.
You've also got to be talented with people.
You got to be able to catch people and make them understand you and feel you there's a lot more to the art right so you can try your best to be good
at something but you may still not succeed at it even though you try your best i think that some
things are better odds for most people than other things are better odds for people that's why i
think like just keep clicking works. If you're,
you know, maybe throwing a little bit here and there, but if you're putting your all into just
keep clicking, you could lose your whole life. Like as far as financial, right. And not, and I
agree with you, you know, I'm just, I'm just saying that like, it sounds like you're telling
people to take the easy way out because you're more likely to succeed being an electrical engineer because that's pretty simple.
And I'm just like, I've always been the type of person that's like, nah, whatever you want to do, go ahead and do it.
And I think that you can do it.
You know, you just got to put your fucking back into that shit.
It's dangerous.
If you're known as like the clicker in the space, like you must be committed, and that's going to be your identity for the rest of time.
I don't know about that, bro, because I know clickers who are now building things.
Yeah, but that's the thing, though.
They took a shift, right?
They shifted from clicking to building, and that's a skill set, right?
They're building a skill set because they're realizing clicking's not working for them well i mean
clicking already worked for them right yeah but then why are they building a skill set of clicking
working well because once you're up you know 15 20 million you start thinking about uh how can i
make hundreds of millions and you don't want to keep clicking every... Residuals?
Just put it in the stock market and get returns?
Yeah. You gotta put your back into it.
I couldn't agree more.
Alright.
We got a good convo going.
Cooling up.
This is a vibe.
I love when Stone opens that motherfucking mouth.
He got a big brain there.
He just flexes it when he feels like it.
We do got a guest.
Mr. Matt. I do want to jump into everything that we did in Dubai, as well as all cool things going on on Flow that I feel like are not mentioned enough.
This is not sponsored by any means.
I've just been seeing all the new shit, and I'm not going to lie, I want to get educated real quick.
Let's jump into it.
Matt, how are you feeling?
How's the day going?
Oh, it's going good.
And don't let me stop the conversation, by the way.
Yeah, I'd love to talk about all this stuff.
But I'm actually just buying some duplicators right now.
So I was doing a little shopping, a little sweeping.
So yeah, no, today's a great day.
And glad to be back from Dubai.
I spent the weekend at Disneyland after that.
So I went to Dubai, sister at Disneyland. It was quite the journey, but just sat down at my desk
an hour ago. So finally back home. Dude, your receptors must be shot. Like you've just been,
you just been in a magical land for the past fucking 12 plus business days.
That's amazing. No, I was going to say, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say,
at least I wasn't in a literal casino.
That would have put me over the edge.
Like we're all about to be in a few fucking weeks.
So actually, we'd love your take on this whole thing.
And really, I'm not going to lie, our convo the other night really stuck with me.
And I won't go too into the specifics, but you kind of said something big that I think is really important for the whole space, I think, to understand.
And more importantly, my take earlier about a lot of chains, some companies, and even unfortunately going to probably not be active soon.
I think Hedera just did not even 300,000 in volume.
And you got to, I don't know what's what's it got? G money's brand did like
three times that in like, I don't know, like I'm not trying to shit on anything. Like there has
been around forever. It's just like, what is the importance of having a super mega war chest when
it comes to building not only fucking daps and cool things, but a whole chain, like a literally like literally a chain within itself.
Yeah, I mean, it's a huge deal, right?
Now, I think it's interesting because there's actually really inexpensive ways to quote-unquote start a chain these days where it's kind of different.
Like are you starting in L1, an L2, an L3?
Those all have different kind of monetary asks, if you will.
Like I can spin up a roll-up today, I think, you know,
using a variety of different services for like $0.
But it's kind of like, what's the point?
You know what I mean?
So, yeah, that's probably a much longer convo.
But Will's got his hand raised.
What's going on, man?
What do you think about Polygon right now?
Just out of curiosity.
Do my man Rudo over here?
Don't be scared of Rudo either. Be honest.
Be honest, man. Be honest.
I'm open to it.
We need honesty, yes.
To be fair,
I have no positive
or negative opinion on Polymarket.
Boo!
I thought that's a lukewarm take.
You know, my only, and I guess I'll give you my kind of objective perspective as someone who just like kind of scrolls the timeline
um and i imagine polygon faces a similar issue to flow in the way that like i know poly i know
polygon because of polymarket like uh i know polygon because the apps that are built on top
of it have kind of exceeded the mind share of the network that runs underneath.
And I know that that's an uphill battle to fight.
So that's kind of my opinion.
Yeah, I was just looking for a real gauge.
I honestly feel like Polymark is like carrying the boat on that one.
Dude, you guys haven't done any analytics, bro.
There's nothing wrong with that. The numbers? Right. I didn't say that. No, no. Talk that one. Dude, you guys haven't done any analytics, bro. There's nothing wrong with that.
The numbers?
Right.
I didn't say that.
No, no.
Talk that shit.
It's money, dude.
Look at Courtyard.
Like, Ruto, tell them what Courtyard does.
Wait, I didn't even know Courtyard was on Polygon.
Now, and if you don't know,
now you know, bro.
Yeah, the number one...
I was just going to say that. I don't know what that is number one NMT volume, what, in the last six months?
Hold on, all right, we're going to talk about volume.
Do we care about fixed volume or do we care about actual users on chain?
I mean, they're both good metrics to go by.
All right, we'll leave it there.
This is not a Polygon debate, more or less.
I just wanted to go into the important,
I think polygon is fucking killing it.
I think I,
I remember there was a time I literally was a,
what was polygon before it was changed to polygon?
There was something else.
It was a call.
I was,
I've been buying that shit since then.
And I fucking,
I killed it.
It was such a,
one of my amazing trades.
And I remember like similar to Flow as well, kind of
becoming the first new chain that we use that's no fucking gas fees and all the shit and all the
things. And then I feel like it kind of had a slow start. And then yes, you have solid companies
like Polymarket, Courtyard on there that are producing value, that are helping the chain.
I absolutely agree with that. And so that's why i wanted to get into this conversation of the importance of a fucking war
chest because flow is another great example of a war chest and and a fucking just full ammunition
of amazing things that can help the chain uh move forward right um look at these fucking hands. Holy shit, zaddy.
Oh, yeah.
So I was going to ask, like, is Polygon still focused on gaming? Or
like, what, like, I'm just not super
educated on them right now. Yeah, same with me.
I think my first NFTs I ever bought were
on Polygon, because I joined, and
I was like, the fuck is up with this ETH gas
at, like, $50, and then I bought, like,
whatever that chicken racing game was
on Polygon or whatever, but then I slowly realized, like i slowly realized like you know just because no gas doesn't mean
like there's volume or whatever but yeah i was just gonna ask like i know polygon three years
ago whatever was focused on gaming you know the first l2 but i'm just wondering what their like
competitive advantage is now that there's like 50 l2s yeah i'd love to answer it but i don't
want to take up spotlight from the actual conversation i know profits is like oh i'm not trying to make this polygon fucking space so no not necessarily
not it could be it could be you can answer that directly and then we could continue on just don't
be long-winded you can answer oh yeah um i mean just like most chains uh people try to capture
different mind shares for different narratives uh polygon at one point for sure was trying to
hyper focus on gaming we uh gaming. Before I was there,
they've since kind of changed what that narrative is.
But yeah, there's definitely games
still being built on Polygon. Wilder World, for example,
is a good one.
Go ahead, Will.
No, I just wanted to say I like Wilder World,
by the way. It's one of my favorite Web3
games that I've seen on here.
I didn't know they were on polygon though um but uh just the the reason i ask and and here's the thing that's to relate
to flow and to and to polygon too um and and i i i liked flow for a long time since uh since they
first came out i just haven't seen a lot of action as far as people interacting with it right um but you know on chain that may just be different i just don't see it on
the timeline a lot and same thing with polygon i i don't see a lot of conversation around those two
chains on the on the timeline and so like i know there's there's liquidity flow over there and stuff
like that and i ideally should stop just only being on solana and suey as of lately
and look at other chains um and and i've been a little bit on eth too but i just haven't seen a
lot of action there either i feel like eth just basically you know went in my a and went on
freaking warpcast and left everybody behind um but i feel like the other chains are still
developing and doing things so you know i i probably should ideally reach out to both and kind of you know see what they got going on over there because uh manny
brought up you know a project and obviously you know we got to look into manny projects so
i'll take a look into that afterwards but yeah definitely never fade manny william
um let's continue on go ahead bruto no i was just gonna because i think the original question you
had was like teams with
War Chess and this and that.
And I think Will is kind of like, you're making a really good example of, I think the reason
why you have like the newer chains that come out and what they are able to do is they're
able to capture a ton of mindshare because there's like a lot of incentive built in for
something that's new, right?
Whether it be new dApps that are giving incentives building on the network,
whether it be the chain itself or protocol giving incentives and rewards to early users.
So like the reason why you see those being talked about the most,
especially particularly on CT, it goes back to exactly what we were just talking about, right?
It's people are chasing the bag.
They're looking for new and early narratives that they can talk about often and a lot.
And the reason why you don't see like older chains or even chains that are doing stuff outside of CT is because there's no really baked in incentive for users to talk about it.
Right. So like I think Flow is probably a good example. Polygon is a good example of that as well.
Like our target audience is it is no longer acquiring users from like specifically CT.
is it is no longer acquiring users from like specifically CT.
So I think people like you, or there's a ton of people like you,
even me before I was on, before I worked here,
it wasn't like I was like looking at Polygon stuff every single day.
So to Prophet's point about war chest and having a good war chest,
I think ultimately when it comes down to it,
especially in the short term or long term of Web3 chains or protocols,
is that sure, you can have a lot of money, depending on what your strategy is,
if it's just basically getting users or acquiring users from CT, you're going to fail.
If your goal is to just internally create some new faster TPS or something like that,
and you're only marketing that to CT users, again, you're going to fail.
Ultimately, what it comes down to is what sort of dApps do you have built on your chain
that can reach that escape velocity where you can acquire more users outside of the
realm of the only 5,000 to 10,000 people left here on CT.
So if you have a big war chest, that's awesome because you have runway, but just, you know,
get cool dApps on there.
What does that look like i
guess for me i i i understand like a lot of a lot of twitter a lot of crypto projects i see
operate on twitter because it's literally the the most freest place i would say to
to get your word across when it comes to crypto a lot of a lot of other platforms will silence you
when it comes to crypto in a lot of ways um so like i guess how are
my my thought has been and this is my thoughts and i'm somebody who's definitely open-minded to
other chains but is how are you getting other users and where are you getting them from if it's
not ct i guess would be my my thought process yeah i mean there's especially from a marketing
angle dude there's there's a thousand different uh distribution channels you can leverage the
problem is that if you're if you're doing a startup on Web3 and your main demo is CT,
it's the reason why you have KOLs and influencers shilling all the same stuff
because most startups think that the only distribution channel is KOLs or people on CT.
So if you have everyone running the exact same
playbook, we've all seen this.
New chain, TGE's coming up,
you wait six months later and no
one's fucking talking about it anymore because you've
exhausted the demographic
that you're going for. Now that demo is no
longer interested in your chain
or the dApps that are losing
users daily because now they're
farming or looking towards the next TGE
that they want to look into. So as far as acquiring new users outside of CT, it's actually
super fucking simple. It's just using traditional marketing distribution channels, whether it be
paid ads, whether it be email lists, whether it be traditional SEO, whether it be core partnerships
with enterprise or institutional companies with blog posts news articles pr there's
a thousand different ways to acquire users just most startups here um assume that hey if i want
to raise a shit ton of money let me just get a bunch of fucking hype on ct um and get these
bozos to give me like 100 million to build something um and then no one talks about them
after a year anymore yep yep spot on what's up manny yeah no i think it's just all the nft bozos from 21
wised up and then they cut onto the new scam which is just start a fucking chain so
it's all just rotational mercenary brazilian dubai liquidity that rotates and then they all
shake you down and all of you idiots think you're going to make money,
but it's really just people making 5% a day on 100Ms.
And that's it.
That's the game.
Sorry.
Surprise.
And that's 90% of the builders.
Thanks for playing.
What's up, Zaddy?
Yeah, so I was going to say,
I know we're talking about obviously spinning up 50 or 100 L2s
in two or three years.
And just, yeah, how, like, everyone goes in, farms the airdrop, and then fucks off.
And, you know, it's interesting.
When I joined, you know, crypto or whatever, I thought Polygon was the future because of the no gas thing.
And then, obviously, like, 100 more chains came in with no gas, basically.
But I was going to say the one thing I heard in the last couple weeks that that was really interesting to me was I heard that like maybe, you know, two or three years ago, whatever,
it was super easy to get funded for chains. Like that was like, you know, there's like an infra
meta or whatever. So all the VCs were just running to fund all these L2s. So I thought the most
interesting part was when you're a user, you think, why the fuck do I need a 50th L2? You know,
this is the 49th thing this year without gas or whatever um but i think the most interesting thing is like they're only
launching these l2s because vcs funded them three years ago and they need like a token to exit um
so i think that's super interesting in terms of like most people don't think in terms of vc stuff
that's like way above you know unless you work for a bunch of projects you you don't know how vcs work or whatever but yeah i think that's a super interesting point where it's all just
stuff they funded a couple years ago now they're like you know let's get to a tge let's get these
people they probably raised to 50 or 100 mil um i just think it's interesting we don't actually
need these l2s they're just you know like vampire vcs some l2s are good like if you have competition
it's only going to make the older L2s
or newer ones come out want to perform better.
So I'm all for competition.
Launch 200 more L2s.
Like I don't think it really matters.
It's only going to continue to help other teams innovate
and get better.
Funny enough, Naveen's up here before I have to go.
Naveen, I went to download the new miner on my computer.
Huge shout out to you as well.
And I didn't realize
I did it on my work computer, and the
security team DM'd me and was like,
what the fuck are you trying to download? I'm like, oh shit.
My bad. Sorry. The homies
went to mainnet today. I was trying to mine that shit.
So, yeah. GG's, man. I appreciate y'all.
Hey, yo. What's up, Matt?
Oh, I mean, gosh talked we talked about a lot uh i mean i would say that like if you're going to be on eth mainnet like you probably do need some kind of l2 like a separation
of consensus and compute like uh it but i but i even think someone was saying like you know there's
100 chains who doesn't do gas and i'm, I don't know if that's actually necessarily true.
Uh, I can probably count on very few fingers like, or at least maybe the chains.
I don't, I don't want, I don't want to say like worth using, but don't have gas, like actually sponsoring gas transactions, stuff like that.
Like it's not the easiest thing to do using that kind of current tech.
So I think I meant like under five cents or whatever, you know, I just
meant like not nominal gas, whatever, you know, I just meant like not nominal gas.
Another another two cent transaction. Yeah. Just basically as opposed to ETH.
A couple of years ago, oh, this ETH transaction is one hundred fifty dollars.
This polygon one is four cents. So basically free when you look at how much inflation has eroded the value of your dollar.
Got it. It isn't. It is trippy,ppy though like I remember someone kind of gave me this thought experiment
at some point like the difference they said something like the difference between free
and one cent is bigger than like one cent and a dollar or something like that it is really
interesting like uh it's like quite literally if it's free then it's free and if someone has to
onboard literally a cent like think about when you've like bridged a new chain and you got stranded with no gas, like you still have to bridge some money.
So there is like a critical difference between zero and then like one cent, half a cent.
So what they're saying is there's friction in one area and not friction in the other.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. The difference between, you know.
Or the friction is near equal.
Yeah, five cents, ten cents, thirty cents. I'm sure there's a point of no return at some point we're
like hmm that gas is expensive but like the difference between zero and 0.01 is huge
that was like buying matic a couple years ago like i was like so mad you know like i have eth on
polygon you know you're already confused about like eth eth on polygon either whatever um that
made me so mad when i'm sitting there like
what the fuck is a matic why wouldn't it just go through um like that was like the
most frustrating thing for you could never bring a normie onto polygon a couple years ago with with
ease but i guess i guess to go back to kind of the original question i was thinking about is
someone posed i don't know if it was profits or else, like, yeah, how do you basically, you know, break out of CT and meet, you know, essentially new customers?
So it's not just this kind of like rotating mercenary capital, wherever geographically it may be to Manny's point.
But I think about even stuff like NBA Top Shot is now inside the NBA app.
So it's like people, those NBA fans can get a free Top Shot pack.
Like they don't have to get onboarded on chain.
They just like they're getting met in the places that they already exist, like in the NBA app.
If they have an NBA account, they can get NFTs.
And that's like that's massive.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunities for stuff like that.
I just think it boils down to selling people a good product and like something that's actually worth using.
And you don't need like an owner's manual to kind of figure out. And they still haven't even
figured out clean UX here, right? Like you just hire a behavioral scientist and you're like, hey,
look, study all of the people and figure out which one's the easiest way to do it. And then
just do that. Like that's like rocket science to people. And I'm like, bro, this is rock science. This is like layups and sass.
Like, I don't know.
That's just kind of the strong parallels between, like, the people who make money and the people who think that they're going to make a lot of money and don't.
That abstract portal they added, I feel like it's pretty smart.
There's not many chains, you know, where you can just go to one website and see all of the daps and all of the everything so I feel like that's like a huge step that no one talks about is that
you know I could send that abstract link to someone they could sign up with an email and
be playing games in like five seconds it is it is trippy though like I and I love the abstract team
I was just hanging with them in Dubai but like it's funny how the attitude towards that kind
of stuff has changed because like that's essentially dapper wallet right when it came out in 2020 and everyone
in 2020 when the you know crypto bros were a little more chad we're like oh my god centralization
fuck off like you know and and now we like are running that same playbook and everyone's like
this is genius so i don't know just too know. You're just too early, bro. You're just too early.
Apparently, apparently.
But I think they'll, you know,
and they'll learn like other people.
You know, you've seen abstract tweet,
you know, about different things
where they have to say like,
oh, hey, you can't get points for this.
Or, oh, hey, this, you know, protocol,
we had to, you know, remove session keys
because of the threat vector to users.
So it's like there's trade-offs to every approach,
whether, you know, degree of centralization or not. of the the threat vector to users so it's like there's trade-offs to every approach um whether
you know degree of centralization or not yeah i think it's also weird via security on abstract
because i feel like everyone's using their main wallet for everything um there's you know there's
not like an option to create burner wallets and have like five or ten inside of one um
so it's definitely different i was asking them about how not to get drained earlier.
You have a different nickname, by the way, Mr. Z?
Because I don't know how I feel about continuously
calling you that.
Yeah, Z works.
Awesome. Appreciate that, buddy. Go ahead, Naveed.
I think the
marketing conversation is actually kind of a funny one for proof of stake systems
because no one actually discloses the cost to acquire a customer.
No one actually discloses like retention or lifetime value.
or lifetime value.
And I actually think secretly
the cost to acquire a customer
for most chains is actually unbelievably high
because the friction is unbelievably high.
Asking a random user to KYC
to buy a token to do a task
is really fucking expensive
because you're just demanding a lot of the user.
It's a lot of steps.
There's going to be a lot of, you know, abandonment at different steps of the process.
And, you know, you don't have any of the on-ramps ever disclose their stats.
Like MoonPay doesn't ever disclose their stats.
No one actually discloses the stats.
And I actually think secretly the stats are terrible. And that the cost to acquire the customers is really, really hard,
really high. Because, you know, that's just not what we want to talk about. And it's not a metric
that is positive. And we only want to talk about positive metrics, because it's supposed to be
number go up technology. And if you're not talking about positive metrics, then how the fuck does the
number go up?
And so I think that's where you get into the conversation that typically happens
around proof of stake chains, which is, you know, TVL, which can be rented
active wallets, which can be bought volume, which can also be bought.
And, uh, and those are like the primary metrics that people talk about. And that's not normal because in normal business, like if you were
looking at like a publicly traded company or something, you wouldn't buy the stock based on
bullshit vanity metrics. You would actually like try to look at the number of humans that actually
care about the thing or are involved with the thing.
But there's, there's really no way to measure that because all these things are basically
civil city.
So you don't really know how many humans are there.
Um, unless you want to scan retinas, but he's black market for, for fucking, you know,
world IDs.
So that doesn't really work either.
So it's kind of like a, you know,
really kind of fucked up situation.
And I think people should be asking a lot harder questions.
The other thing that I think is completely fucked is,
and I'll continue to say this until like, you know,
I've retired from this like space, whatever that means,
is I think like all the tokenomics for proof of stake chains are predatory as fuck.
The whole idea that the team needs 20% of the tokens so they can like, you know, become
kazillionaires, VCs need 30% of the tokens, you know, a, uh, you know, foundation or whatever needs another 20 or 30% of the tokens.
And, you know, like everyone on CT who's getting an airdrop, you know, at least half of which are bots, um, you know, are going to be like cool. cool just holding the token knowing that the pie chart basically looks like straight down chart action,
I think is another completely fucked up situation.
So I think there's essentially
a terminal cancer in the proof of stake space.
Then these are the things that frankly just no one wants to
talk about because it's inconvenient to do
so and doesn't actually create number-go-up technology.
Go ahead, Will.
Will, go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to say, too,
I do want to say this part, too,
because I do kind of agree on some of the stuff that you said,
especially with the volume.
There's so much fucking fake volume in this space.'s not even but it's so hard to tell what is
real it is so difficult to tell what is real in this space with volume i have no clue all of those
metrics are fake like you can rent dude anyone who knows knows you can call a market maker
you can rent you can rent tvl bro you can straight up rent tvl and then you can call a market maker. You can rent, you can rent TVL, bro.
You can straight up rent TVL and then you can loop TVL.
And if you want to have a billion TVL, it doesn't cost you a billion dollars.
You're, you're renting it.
So, I mean, like anyone who's like has half a brain knows that you can do that.
So I just think like all these, all these metrics
are basically bullshit and, um, and they're lies and it's, it may, and they're intended to fool,
like they're, they're deceptive, right? Like, it's like, you know, you can imagine whoever the,
you know, CEO who's, you know, running, AWS instance, that is the L two or whatever.
It's sitting there going guys, we need like, we need better metrics.
You know, this month we need better metrics. And someone's like, oh, well, you know, and then like secretly it's kind of like, it's
kind of like the intern who's in charge of like buying X followers or something.
It's like the intern goes, oh, you know what?
Dude, I know this guy and we can grow our
active wallet count this month.
And then the CEO doesn't ask any questions about how that happens.
They're just looking for like a chart that they can get some like KOL to post on the
timeline.
So people want to buy the fucking token because otherwise no one wants to buy the token and
they need to sell the token because they need to keep the lights on and their
foundation like i'm just being really like brutally honest here but these are the things that people
just don't think about and i think people should think about it like they should think about like
well fuck okay you know we're talking about acquiring users that aren't on ct
well what's your cost to acquire a user? You know, like, does anyone ever ask that question?
That's why I asked where they were getting users from,
because, you know, depending on where they were getting them from,
you can kind of get a number in your head of what it's costing them
to get those users.
Like if they're getting them from Facebook, for instance, right?
Facebook's probably charging the max amount of dollars for that.
If they're getting them from another platform, you know, they're getting know they're getting charged for that so yeah yeah but here's the thing
like okay let's take facebook for example so you know the way any of these platforms work is you're
not just trying to like do display ads you're trying to convert people so you know what you
need i think a another question you may want to consider asking is like okay you know, what you need to, I think a, a, another question you may want to consider
asking is like, okay, you know, what did it cost for you to get the person to the front door?
Okay. So that's your top of funnel. So it's like, okay, you know, it costs me a dollar,
whatever. I'm just picking a random number, a random number, probably more to get the person
at the top of the funnel. Okay. But then the real
question is, well, what is the funnel? And if the funnel involves KYC in, you know, put credit card
here, go through the whole fucking process to buy token. Well, I'm going to tell you right now,
it's going to cost you like orders and orders and orders of magnitude more to get that same person all the way through to actually doing the action. And then
the second question you really got to ask yourself is, okay, what is the cost to get the person to
do a single action? And what is the cost of the person to get the person to do multiple actions?
Because just because you got someone to go all the way through the moonshot process to buy trump coin doesn't mean that that same person is going to go through and buy our
bags on pump fun or whatever the fuck you think they're trying to do so that these are the kinds
of things that are like critical thinking like critical questions that no one is fucking asking
you know these like you know n number of l2s or evm pos chains or you know, these like, you know, N number of L2s or EVM POS chains or, you know, move chains or
whatever the fucking chains. I think I found a workaround. You just sell compute through the
Apple store and then an AI agent does all of that on an SMS flow where they just get all your docs
and then they do all of the trading and all of the dog shit and then the
apple store gets their cut but they're then you're just charging for quote-unquote compute tokens
that could be a good scam naveen that's a good idea bro i appreciate you thank you for that
i was just gonna say naveen i think people are asking those questions and i think that that's
why things like pepe and fart coin are like
doing what they're doing because like everybody knows this shit's a scam and like it just is what
it is like it's bitcoin and then everything else is fucking scams like i don't i i i don't know i
i think some of this stuff is more or less just it's market makers playing the charts.
I don't think it's people believing in something, right?
The believing in something is just the, hey, put your money here. It's safe.
The market makers playing the charts, they'll paint the charts until they decide they don't want to paint the charts anymore.
And that's just how this game rolls.
And I think anybody in the space that's been here long enough understands that that's that's the metrics you go by you're right now we are still at the
whims even with these mean coins to the kols the kols are still running the mean coins yeah like
nothing's changed between between regular coins yeah yeah no i'm not saying that it's like that
much of a difference it's just like clear to everyone that it's vaporware like everybody knows it's vaporware it's not a gimmick that like it's not the exact
same gimmick i guess like there are market makers right but everybody understands what it is versus
with things like polygon it's like they're just trying to play you into raising more money
in my opinion yeah don't market make everyone thinks you're like fail and stuff.
You know,
it's like every single product does it so much that,
I don't know.
It's like,
you'd have a bunch of dumb people telling you,
you have to have a project.
and the other thing I think is interesting.
like the system is kind of set up,
you know,
for all that fake stuff.
you know,
like I feel like if you have a billion TVL,
you probably have like a hundred,
200 million.
The other 80% is probably fake or whatever. Um, whoever's saying about, you know, renting it. Um know, like, I feel like if you have a billion TVL, you probably have like 100 or 200 million. The other 80% is probably fake or whatever. Whoever's saying about, you know,
renting it. But like, what I was saying about the system kind of propping it up, like, when you work
with projects, and they're like, okay, we want to get listed on Bybit, we want to get listed on
Binance or whatever. And I've had a bunch of projects tell me, okay, dude, I need you to get
150k in Discord. And you know, like 120k on Twitter or whatever so we can get this listing.
And I just tell them, like, get
fucked, dude. I don't know 150,000 people
to join a Discord. Like, are you
smoking crack?
And so, yeah, I mean, like, those numbers
are... Oh, you're a good one, bro.
20 other motherfuckers would be like, yeah, bro,
I can do 200 for you.
Yeah, I mean, it's just
set up to where, like, you have to fake stuff to get
listings.
I don't think anyone here with a brain thinks
any project can realistically
get 100k in a Discord in 2025.
Man, you guys
remember that back in the day?
We only got 100k in Discord, bro.
I was like, yeah, for real?
Discord's going to be the new Skype profits.
How'd they fucking do the new Skype prophets I remember
real quick Mikey
I got you Mikey
I remember building the discord for the first time ever in 2021
and overnight
we had 30 people
I'm like how the fuck are we going to get this shit to 5,000
people we need a lot of people
we need people in here
and then me and my other friend that were building
it, he's talking to every KOL at the time that he knows. And overnight, we got 700 people.
And I'm like, who the fuck did you tell? And he has just showed whatever we were doing to this
person, whatever. The point is, it was real people. And I remember thinking,
wow, we really thought 100,000 people would come just by one click. It doesn't work like that.
Maybe a few hundred at a time, but not thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people. God damn,
those are the good old days. Mikey, what's up? Go ahead. Yeah, this is such a relevant conversation
for me because I used to run brand at Geico and spent over $2 billion in our marketing department. All Web3 is doing is creating the top of funnel game with new marketing hype traps. And they're driving people to try to flip something to make a profit.
They are not driving customer acquisition at all.
It's a complete clusterfuck.
And they're not real businesses, right?
And so the end of the day,
until real companies come in and use Web3 as a technology,
what is happening, True?
This whole thing is just a vaporware-ware show at the end of the day.
Naveen couldn't be more right.
The cost to actually acquire a customer is insanely high.
And one of the reasons why my business has actually taken off on the back end is I actually can improve with my type of content that I can get people to go buy a NFT in real time because I am revealing that the founder has business chops and ability to build something.
That's the type of shit that gets people to go buy something, not this hype bullshit marketing.
Yes, it will temporarily, but it's not a long lasting thing. And you start
thinking about, well, what is the actual lifetime value of a customer that will sit and hold
something and believe in your products? In the end, if you get more people, it's way more valuable
than the hype marketing funnel that we've created. I agree. Also think there's like a big disconnect with like, uh, like we got a lot of really cool
dApps on, on all, all the chains. I think all the chains have something cool, but the web two
companies that are here, for example, um, ticket master, which is on flow, like they're not really
incentivized to spend the marketing dollars direct on the web to
marketing that they should be doing to get the attention because they already
have attention and so that's a whole other thing where it's like hmm is it
the chains that are paying them to come which is not bad because that's the
point right you want relevance on your chain but it's like a whole deeper
conversation I could go down this rabbit hole forever I wish there was more
people with an actual marketing braid I can't deal with the marketing and the bio, but you don't even...
I'll get me started with that. But Mikey, nice to meet you. I don't think we've been
acquainted before, so thanks for pulling up. Yeah, I've seen you around, and this is the
first time I've been able to speak, so nice to meet you. Glad to be here. Naveen's actually
been on my podcast. I wanted to give him a shout out too. He's an amazing human being.
I'll thank him then. He's going to invoice me later for this, man. Thanks a lot. Naveen, go ahead. Back to you.
Yeah, I think the other key thing that people just don't really consider is retention.
just don't really consider is retention so you know think think about your mindset
in this industry right like my mind my mindset when chasing airdrops is okay what do i got to
do to get the airdrop oh i'm going to click a couple buttons cool okay. Okay. Then, oh guys, when's the TGE? When's the TGE? When's the TGE?
Oh, it's today. Okay. I'm going to be ready on my computer to get my airdrop, claim the shit.
And then I am going to instantly sell it. Like, it's like, it's not even a question. It's like, it's not even a question. It's like, do not pass go. Do not think. Just operate like automaton insta-sell, okay?
And then what happens is I don't give a fuck about the platform.
I just don't give a fuck about it.
Like, I leave.
I quietly leave.
And then what happens is I wait for the next thing to pop up on my timeline.
The next gonad, you know, chop suey magic.
And I do the exact same thing.
And so let me tell you what the end result of that is the end result of that is
there's no fucking retention there's no retention no one's gonna sit there and continue to use your
sloppy little fucking uni v3 clone and your pumpy.fun clone and your you know whatever the nft platform clone no one's gonna sit around and do
that and then you end up with ghost chains and that's the sad reality of like the vast majority
of things and then then you get back to my whole little thing about the intern who gets the coffee
who also is buying the active wallets because you know you got to show active wallet
growth in order to try to get people to come back but it doesn't really work very well so I think
the whole thing is very short term minded because there isn't a focus on getting people to build any
form of emotional connection with the underlying platform and it is very difficult
to get people to build an emotional connection because let's be perfectly honest all these things
look like ducks walk like ducks because they're all ducks quack they're the same
they're the same you can't tell me that i'm going to go on to suey and then I'm
going to go on to monad and I'm going to go on to whatever the fuck the next thing is.
And it's going to look or feel any fucking different. It is the same number of clicks
is the same thing. It's just someone took uni V three and, you know, hired some dev shop to like
change the skin and that's all it is. And so I think, I think the, the, the, the focus needs to be like, how do you create
an emotional connection with people so that you have a better chance of retaining them
so that you actually can build a strong core?
You know, it's like, it's like talking to that guy in the gym who's got really strong
arms and really, you know, like maybe really weak like talking to that guy in the gym who's got really strong arms and really
you know like maybe really weak legs and a really weak core so like you know they're just basically
not a very strong human miami that's a that's a great way to describe proof of stake chains
yo you you you're you're like hitting it on the head bro like you're right about everything it's
the same shit i was saying like we all know this shit's a scam. But I will say the boop.fun shit, whatever it's called, I guess I think that's what it's called.
I know everybody was making fun of them. I think the influencer marketing thing was kind of gay,
but it also got them a lot of attention, I guess. But I'm not gonna lie, I do kind of think
it's a little bit innovative and like, pretty cool how they're doing the staking thing. Because
like, I've actually seen a few people eat off of just staking Boop and then getting airdropped
tokens that ran. And like, right now now there's not really many tokens running over
there but uh i can kind of see like that being like what you're talking about like that's like
an emotional connection right like if you're staking a thousand dollars on boop whatever
right and uh a coin drops over there huh did you ever did you ever you know play around with
wonderland in 2021 uh no i wasn't even here in 2021, bro.
Okay, well, I'll tell you this.
When you see a Ponzi, you understand the Ponzi, okay?
Oh, yeah, no, I love Ponzi, bro.
Here's the thing to your point.
First come, first serve, we'll make it on Boop.
Everybody else will be exit liquidity
that that's that's how that will yeah yeah no for sure i just say like as a competitor to pump fund
right because like all the pump fund competitors haven't brought anything to the table at all like
they've all just been clones that just want you to go do it over there and um it's been a full-on
extractor yeah yeah but pump fun also changed my life and a
lot of people's lives so like people fuck with it right and they're just like they're like the first
to market or they're not even the first to market they're just like the best to do it so far and i
think it had to do a lot with their like how their platform was actually built and like how it looks
and how it feels it feels like slots and like it just kind of like pulls you in right but
like if fart coin dropped on boop and you were staking a little bit of boop you would be a really
rich person right now that that's that's the only thing so like that's the first like pump
fun competitor that i see that actually brought something uh like better than Pump Fun to the table.
There's always going to be individuals who can improve on the Ponzi.
There's always going to be individuals who can make a better Ponzi.
There's always going to be...
And I hate to be the person to say it that way, but it is what it is.
You just got to understand the game you're playing.
There's always going to be individuals who can improve on the Ponzi.
It's a fulfilling prophecy.
Yeah, there's always going to be people that can make a better looking pump fun.
I mean, I remember when Pac-Man came out with fucking whatever the hell it was he came out with.
But when they came out with that shit, I mean, it lasted like six months.
A lot of people made some money on it.
And then it, you know, gone.
Jane's gone.
And I think that when you look at these projects, they come out and they do that.
And here's the issue I have.
I'll just say it, the quiet part out loud.
I mean, I didn't, I wasn't offered a lot.
I think it was like a thousand bucks or whatever.
They offered me to launch a coin.
I'm not launching it.
But the point being is, is is like the fact they were offering
some of these people 250k and other people 200k and telling people the coin is going to remain
stable i i highly doubt that that's going to be the case i just want to put that out there um
second off i also want to say like where did the 250k come from per per some of these influence a
lot of these influences got like 250K. Where'd that come from?
It likely, you know, I'll be theoretical.
I'm not saying this is true.
Theoretically, there's probably some angel investors.
And I bet they want their money back.
And the way they're going to get their money back is through pushing this product, getting a lot of people to run volume through it.
And then once they get their money's worth worth move on to the next best thing we see it time and time again in this space yeah nah for
sure i i do agree with that i'm not i'm not saying it's different you know i'm just like personally
i could be wrong but i i think that meme coins are gonna keep doing what they've been doing
because like everybody just knows that everything's vaporware already and um a platform that airdrops you free meme coins um early on because you you
get them as soon as they drop you i think five percent of each meme coin gets dropped to like
uh people who are staking boop on their platform i'm not saying that they're like selling pressure though too yeah it is but the thing is that like a lot of people are like not going to be looking at it
because most of the time you're getting airdrop like a few dollars um and then just one of these
days you might get airdrop fartcoin if fartcoin drops on their platform right like we've seen
how many coins ran to hundreds of millions off of
pump fund. There's a lot of them. So if you just got airdropped a piece of each one of those,
like you could have got airdropped fucking shark cat and fucking like all these coins that ran
last year, right? You could have just got them for free for staking a little boop. I'm just saying
that this is the first platform that i see that
brought something to the table like uh above of what plat of what pump fund is doing and um
their marketing was cool too um i feel like everyone talked about like from the kol side of
like is it ethical to launch it is it not ethical to launch it i i feel like i didn't see enough
tweets that were just like,
this is kind of fucking cool.
Like these,
you know, it's kind of like a game show,
but like,
I just thought it was really cool marketing,
you know,
like no one else has launched a competitor where they had a bunch of KOLs
tweet.
Cause they wanted to like get some,
obviously cause they wanted to get incentive,
but like,
I don't know.
I thought that was super interesting.
no, the KOLs. So it that was super interesting. No, no.
The KOLs, so it worked out a little differently than what you think or than a lot of people think.
So they picked out people.
It looked like they handpicked them because I saw some 30K counts that didn't get any allocation at all.
I didn't. I didn't have any at $0.
But I'm not like a meme guy.
So like if Dingaling was handpicking accounts or whatever.
Well, they picked me as one.
I picked profits as one.
I picked a lot of people as one, like bigger accounts and stuff like that.
I'm not even a big account.
But they picked a lot of people to get allocation.
Different amounts depending on, I guess, profits.
They said that it was because of engagement.
And they offered them all money.
And then I think a lot of these people did say,
don't buy my coin,
even though they know that those people are going to buy their coin.
Why would people buy the coin that they're saying don't buy when they're
launching it?
Well,
I appreciate an opportunity to gamble.
I'm going to tell you,
even if it's a rug,
there's more to it.
There's more to it than that. There's more to it than that.
There's more to it than that.
The reason people were going to bet on it
is because your coin, for it to fully unlock,
you had to run it to $5 million.
So they know, at minimum,
if they can get in before that $5 million goes,
they're going to make money on your play.
So people are going to buy into that volume
of the $5 million.
And then if you want your 250k or whatever you
got to flush that coin with with money yourself to get it to five mil and then you got to be able
to break through that selling pressure to be able to do that at the same time right so that creates
a flood of volume on the on the token and then a lot of people buy it because they see it running
not realizing they're buying the top at five mil and that selling pressure eventually weighs on the coin it goes to zero but they get their 250k unlocked
the platform gets a lot of volume through trying to push it up the five mil market cap does that
make sense yeah and i mean personally bro i really didn't like that part of it that like when i heard
that and like what they were doing with it when I seen what they were doing, I was instantly bearish. I don't like that part of it at all.
It's not until I realized that if you're staking...
I forgot what coin it was, but there was a coin that ran the other day on there.
People got airdropped a whole bunch of it.
that that was the only part that like made me like hold on like you know because i can i can
That was the only part that made me like, hold on.
see people definitely staking it to get airdrops of meme coins because meme coins run harder than
fucking everything right now and it's like yeah i saw a new tweet from someone who got airdropped
it it was some koal that's linked or whatever i mean here's the thing you can win from airdrops you can win from staking sometimes
i find more often than not you're gonna get rugged staking yeah for sure i'm just like
you know if you're gonna eventually get rugged if you throw a thousand dollars onto like staking
some boop it's something that like not everyone right but you and me personally we would completely
forget about it and not even look at it and um a coin another meme coin might just drop on that
platform instead of pump fun and like most meme coins people are not really caring what platform
they come from because they're all aggregated through like photon and axiom and shit right
so like people are gonna buy a coin
that's running regardless right it's not gonna run because it's on boop but if it comes from boop
and it runs and it's the next fart coin or whatever you might get a lot of money just for
a little thousand dollars that you completely forgot about and that's not a bad deal for me
depending yeah depending on how
much you're putting in i think i think to a point you have a point because like it's like if you're
gonna put 500 or 300 and then like some shit coin over here anyways you could just put on boop and
call it a shit coin and say it might go to zero but hey i'm taking some to it taking a chance here
and you know i'm staking this thousand dollars knowing i'm gonna likely lose this thousand dollars but hoping that i'll make more on the back end from the airdrops than
what i'll lose on thousand dollars for staking yeah you literally get every single token that
comes out on their platform you get an airdrop to you and like i said most of them are probably
gonna do nothing but you don't know which coin might just be a good narrative at the right time
and just run because like i said people aren't like you don't have to be might just be a good narrative at the right time and just run.
Because like I said, people aren't like, you don't have to be on boop.com or whatever it's called to like buy those meme coins, right?
Every single coin that comes out of all these platforms, they're all being aggregated to the same place where people are buying them.
So they all technically have an even shot of running.
And yeah, you know, I don't think meme coins are gonna stop and if
you're getting airdropped every single one it's like literally like you know like how can you
lose i don't you know and then like the whole point of like you're saying like dropping a coin
on there um i don't think it's that crazy because like you know like say if you were to drop a coin
right now on there no one would know you know it doesn't pop up will drop the coin um and they
announced a few people who weren't trying to say they dropped the coin wait what do you mean it
does it does say it it does say it does it does it says it right yeah it says it on their platform
or what yeah yeah just attaches i think i think people drop them and it didn't pop up anywhere
but maybe you have to attach your Twitter to get the airdrop.
Yeah.
For all the airdrop incentives.
Versus your RSA
encryption on your wallet.
Yeah. It is the end
of the show. Sometimes that stuff happens.
You just reminded
me. I just made some art
in ChadGBT
thinking I just came up with something clever.
I'm going to upload it anyway.
I already see it, but I'm going to do it anyway.
How much we buying for a profit?
No, I'm not.
You guys, listen, you guys don't do anything.
I'm going to put in the little bio, don't buy it like everybody else.
So I don't care.
I just want the airdrop.
In my opinion, you're not doing anything wrong.
Especially if you're not out here marketing it, trying to push it to people.
It really depends how you go about it, right?
But if you just launch some shit and you don't really do anything about it, then it's like...
People are not really going
to buy your shit. Like everybody thinks that like people are just going to FOMO and like buy into
their shit. People are not going to buy your shit unless you are like specifically doing things for
them to be bullish. Like I've seen like big old influencers drop their shit and it doesn't like,
it doesn't move unless you're like either putting money into it yourself or you're marketing it hard or you're buying up tokens and locking them.
Like you have to do something for people to buy it.
So like that's that's what I'm saying.
Like it's like it's not like that.
Like I don't really see the.
There you go.
All all disgruntled people report to Stone.
I have a question, though, for Will.
Did you launch?
He launched his shit. Will, I have a question though for will i mean did you launch he ain't launching shit will i have a question for you um what what is the problem with angel investors in a platform uh i i mean here i'll post something up top and tell you how i typically see
an angel especially this especially especially, especially this cycle.
All right.
I mean, I'll argue and say VCs, angels, they're traders.
They want to ROI.
So, I mean, that's just a given.
It doesn't matter what the platform is.
Here's, here's the problem.
This cycle, this cycle, they've been heavily predatory.
Now being touched on this a lot and they, they've gotten way above and beyond the percentage.
We're over here giving angel investor roles
to people that just came into money,
asking them for $25,000, $50,000, $100,000,
and then mad as fuck when they want their shit back
because in reality, they're new money.
They're not actual investors.
No, no, no.
They want way more.
Whatever the fuck it is.
They want way more.
They're new money.
It's new booty.
It used to be like 10 know 10 20 percent you know
we'll scrape a little off the top we'll let your let your coin live now it's a we want 55 60 70 80
percent of your of your overall and we're gonna dump on the coin till it dies that that's that's
how this works now for most angel investors. I posted it up top.
They're literal farms.
And a lot of these angel investors and platforms,
how they're bypassing wall,
which is this is a paid advertisement,
is airdrops.
They're airdropping people to make it look like,
hey, we're not paid advertising.
We're airdropping these people.
They're airdropping.
They're advertising about it.
We didn't tell them to advertise about it. And all these KOLs, we're getting themropping these people they're airdropping they're advertising about it we didn't tell them to advertise about it and all these kols were getting them 250k apiece so they're bypassing
laws and then not only they're bypassing laws they're also killing the coins that they're that
they're working with that's i'm highly skeptical of any coin that's doing that highly skeptical of
any coin that's doing that and and just to Naveen's point too,
what he said earlier is exactly what I did to cycle.
Remember, Profits, we had this conversation with ME token
and a few other ones.
I dumped every single airdrop token I got this cycle.
Every single one.
The minute I got it, it went to it.
Just dumping it.
Dumping it.
Every single one.
Smart man.
I think Naveen's got his hand up go ahead Naveen
yeah so
the biggest problem
like one of the other
sort of like cancers
that exists in this space
expectation from the investor class that they're going to get
liquidity within 30 seconds. That that's, it's, it's kind of like mind blowing to me.
It's, it's really remarkable. It's look, I've been an angel investor for a very long time, maybe 15 years.
And, you know, I love investing in startups.
And I mostly have invested in, like, traditional startups, you know, although I've done some crypto stuff too.
And in the traditional startup game, the way it works is you write a founder a check and the average time horizon from first check to liquidity event is like almost nine years.
And you know that going in.
You know that like I'm going to cut this person a $25,000 check or a $50,000 check or $100,000 check or whatever it is.
dollar check or a 50,000 check or a hundred thousand check or whatever it is.
And like, first of all, I'm likely to never see that money back because you know, 95%
plus of startups fail.
Okay.
So that's like part one of the story.
Part two of the story is that it may be a decade before I see that money back.
before I see that money back.
I'll actually tell you a quick story.
I'll actually tell you a quick story.
One of the very first angel investments I made,
like one of the very, very, very first.
In fact, I was check number one.
I was the very first investor in the startup.
And this founder, I have so much respect for them
because they did not give up.
You have to remember that 99% of startups fail because of
suicide, not homicide. So this guy did not give up. He, he worked his ass off. He worked weekends.
He worked nights. He like did whatever the fuck it took, but it took no bullshit, no bullshit.
It took like 12 years for him to finally sell the company, sold the company to block, uh,
uh, what's his face, uh, what's his face is company.
And, um, and, and I called him and I was like, bro, I just want to – I want to just – like if I was in the same room with you right now, I'd just be giving you the biggest hug because you achieved something.
You changed your life, your family's life, and all that stuff.
And yeah, I was happy that I got a positive return as an investor.
That's great.
But it's more about the journey and them getting there.
See, in our industry, and this has now infected the professional investor class,
you know, the professional VCs in the space, they expect a return on investment from their,
like, LP, for their LPs within only three or four years. And that's crazy town because to create
enormous value, sometimes it takes much longer than that. And by the way, if you're one of those
founders that toils for longer than like the three or four year time horizon,
those investors never call you back. They're like the're like the, the, the epitome, the definition of
fair weather fan. They don't give a fuck. They'll only start to call you when the number goes up,
then they'll call you, you know? So, so it's, it's a, it's a impatience cancer that has infected
the investor class. People are not willing to be willing to be patient.
They believe that the best day for a token
is the initial day that it debuts on Binance.
And then the rest is death.
Like, you know, they're like, fuck,
I don't want to hold this thing anymore
because man, I got to watch the number go down
while my lockup expires and while my tokens vest. And I got to just sit here and watch the number go down.
And that's not fun.
And then they don't really have a good story for their LPs.
It makes it harder for them to raise their next fund if they're a professional investor.
So it's a very, very complicated set of dynamics.
But here's the good news.
It starts with one core thing, which is if you actually are building
something where you can, you can get people to care about it, to actually have like a passion
for it, to, to truly believe in it. I know it's like a meme to say, believe in something,
but to actually, and to indicate it through real metrics like session time retention k factor like these are
metrics that indicate a level of passion and connection that a person has to the thing
and here's the real secret is all you got to do is show that that number goes up
and everything else follows like there's this
there's this mistaken belief on the timeline that price goes up and then narrative comes in
but the actual reality is that if you can show people and and the reason why that's true for
like proof of stake chains and meme coins and stuff is because there is no reliable metrics.
So really what, what everyone is saying when they say that is they say, well, the only metric that I can actually trust on some level, even though it's also largely bullshit is number go up.
I can't trust any of the other metrics because they're also gameable that I don't really know.
So therefore I'm going to say that narrative follows price.
But in, if you, if you have a protocol that launches where they're able to show
you a metric and you start to believe in that metric, because you know, it's
like no metric is perfect, but it's, it's a far higher quality metric than all
the other metrics, then believe it or not, that metric can be the
precursor to price action. So it's, it's, and, but the problem is people have a very hard time
imagining something like that because it's kind of like going, has everyone here been to Circus
Circus in Vegas? If you've not been to Circus Circus, you should go to Circus Circus.
You should go to the buffet.
Good place.
And here's what you're going to notice about the buffet at Circus Circus.
Everything kind of just tastes the same.
It looks like spaghetti.
And then the next table over, it looks like fried chicken.
And the next table over, it looks like filet mignon, but it all weirdly tastes the same. And so you're trying to, and it really fucks with your brain
because you're kind of like, I'm supposed to be eating filet mignon, but it tastes the same as the spaghetti. What the fuck happened?
And that's kind of the weird little Truman show
that we live in here,
where everything kind of looks and feels the same.
We're trying to find the difference in the thing,
but it all kind of feels the same,
and it all looks the same.
And so therefore, people don't know what to do.
And I think the best thing to bet on is the thing that's going to end up looking and feeling
and tasting completely different.
And it has an actual compelling story for how humans are going to give a fuck about it
and a way to show a metric around that and growth
around that metric end of of soapbox
straight up truth it's the bottom line it's really cool though too because people are actually
starting to come out and just call the bullshit more often and more often.
I feel like for the longest time, there was way too much, yeah, it's all good, hype train,
we're all in it together. But at the end of the day, this is back to what you said, Naveen,
here's what it really breaks down to. Most of these things are Ponzi's. And at the end of the day, until you can get a customer experience where the majority of people win, retention will never exist.
And that is the whole goal and game of just any business.
You need to retain people.
You don't need to fuck as many people over as possible and have a small percentage win.
That is what is happening a majority of the time.
It's just that simple.
So how do you get customer retention?
I don't know.
This is a really novel idea.
Be a good human being and take care of people for a long period of time.
It's not that fucking difficult.
That's how you get returning customers, but a lot of people aren't in this for returning customers.
Well, 100%. This is the problem with this space
100%
This is the problem with the space
But I do see a fundamental shift
That people like Naveen
And the other people that I
Talk to from a founder level perspective
The guy that just bought Lazy Lions
This guy is a serial entrepreneur
And he bought Lazy Lions not for the stupid IP play,
which is just the dumbest play a majority of the time because it's really hard to pull that off.
He bought it and has really novel ideas about how do you use Web3 to market at a local level
because he was deeply ingrained in the newspaper world before it went belly up because
of tech. And people are trying to understand how to build these things as businesses to retain
their customers, but also retain their communities because they're providing value just above and
beyond when go up and when floor price go up and that that that perspective is changing
of course a majority of this is still driven by finance and and f and people over making money
quickly overnight but a little bit of it is changing yeah i've yet to see a lot of businesses
in this space with high retention over a long period of time it's it's very lackluster when it comes to crypto a hundred a hundred percent it's laughable
yeah i don't know like for me that that's that's that's the whole reason why i trade this space
because it just it the whole space is trading that's all it is it's get people in get them all
hyped uh understand when the hype's kind of reached a
peak, sell, let everybody else out there and tell you how it's going to keep going high and you're
stupid. And then watching them all lose it all. And then rinse and repeat the process.
And I think for me as a trader, it's the least predatory way to really kind of utilize the space
because everybody's doing that right everybody's doing that except
some people are doing it more in a way of trapping people whereas you're just coming in as an
individual trading and just trading the chart as what it is and so for me it's it's it's been a
it's been a win in that aspect but like i try to teach people and educate people like don't be dumb
and fall for the whims of the space the The dreams that they offer you are all just bullshit.
100%.
And I think the most refreshing thing about the whole meme coin craze
is finally people just came out and called it for what it is.
Straight up, we're going to try to make as much money as possible
and I don't give a fuck about dumping on you.
That's literally finally, they were like,
okay, we're just not going to sugarcoat this anymore.
And to your point, that too. And I think the only way you can kind of change, they were like, okay, we're just not going to sugarcoat this anymore. And to your point, that too.
And I think the only way you can kind of change the narrative is like, yeah, for all these small people that are making tons of bags, you're fucking a lot of people over.
And the people that are really naive, like they're losing fucking substantial amount of money that wrecks their fucking life.
Like wrecks it, right?
And no one's talking about that.
They don't care, bro.
And the people that are doing it are the serial ones, too.
A hundred percent.
Just serial raping the whole space.
There are a lot of people doing that here.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
But then the question is, to us, the people that have are trying to do it the right way or have a decent cell in
our body why are we not creating that narrative more because we want to play part of the game
i don't know i don't know like what is what is that i don't get it i mean as far as like i mean
you can call people out all you want in the space like i've watched people get rugged like 10 10
times by the same individual and they keep on following them.
People in this space are literally brain dead.
So, I mean, you can only help so many people.
Yeah.
I think to your point, man, that's what it boils down to is like, it's just fucking human nature.
Right.
Like you, like you can, you can continue to call people out, but computers are just going to continue to do this because, you know, why is, why is the weight loss industry a multi-billion dollar
industry and there's companies still to this day
that tell you can you lose 100 pounds in a month
it's like hey people
it's
calories in calories out and go to the fucking gym
like that that has literally
been the solution the whole time
but people yet to spend $4,000 a month
thinking they're going to lose 100 pounds
buy my plan.
I'll come over every once in a while.
I'll teach you the right things.
And then after that, you gain your weight back, and I'll come back to the next one.
100%.
We're doing the same damn thing here?
Yo, the only difference is like, I mean, no, I guess it's not really a difference.
It happens in every industry.
But it's literally the biggest people that are, like, the worst people.
And everybody follows them regardless.
And if you speak on it, like, you're going to get canceled.
Not them.
Oh, 100%.
I know, right?
100%.
I went into a space the other day, and that's exactly what happened.
Everybody started blasting me.
I was like, whatever.
I was like, I don't care.
Like, the thing is, is, like, I'm at the point in my life where like you're not gonna hurt my feelings like it doesn't bother me i'm gonna
tell you what you are and it is what it is and if you don't like it sorry you know well not sorry
but i don't really care yeah so i just gotta say that like i feel like it's it's a two-sided coin
um where there's a huge a huge part of the responsibility has to be on us you know like
what are we buying like and i think it was mikey who had said like you know that that um that at
least shit coins are shit coins and that you know it's a matter of time before you are absolutely
fucked and like you know it's a liquidity war but i really think it's a two-sided coin where um
a large part is our decision what are we buying and um and then the other side is like you know
people there's so few novel ideas in this space like really there's not very many there's like
all right i got a dex there's 400 different dexes if not more um there's some
new novel way to onboard people to give a about your product which like unless your product actually
does something that's worthwhile people will never really give a about it they'll
they'll farm it for a little while and then it's going to to zero. So, you know, what I would say is like,
there just needs to be effort in creating some shit
that fucking matters, that like really actually
changes the space.
And it's like, there's like basically nothing.
Like 99.9% of shit is just vaporware.
Yeah, and I would add to that, like,
through my podcast, I've talked to hundreds of founders at this point.
You all would be, well, Naveen probably wouldn't because he's probably seen this too.
You would be shocked, shocked at the amount of founders if I asked them, so what pain point or fundamental problem you're trying to solve?
The why, right?
They cannot answer that question.
They immediately go to the what?
They immediately go to the what they immediately
go what they're building the pain point is number go up that's the pain yes exactly i i literally i
literally posted about this earlier that like the majority of founders out there um are they come up
with problems to solve and they really like yeah sure they solve like the idea of like you know
how do you get people to like a fucking tweet but who gives a shit you know because that tweets
probably bought it anyway and you know i don't know man it just is it's it is again a cultural
thing i can tell you what it is it's really simple it's a bunch of brand new kids and when i say kids i mean mentally right
doesn't mean i'm not talking about age and they're like 45 have probably had no no experience
with business whatsoever they have no no plan on how they're going to get from a to z right they
don't have a business plan laid out they don't understand how what retention is they don't
understand how to push a product they don't understand what they're even trying to build they're just like let's let's
fulfill let's find a problem and try and solve it and it's usually something stupid right something
really dumb oh we need another deck sui just came out sui needs a deck let's make a deck for sui
and then they they do this they're like oh we were the first Dex on Sui. And that's not a problem.
And that's not a solution.
You're just another Dex.
It doesn't matter if you're the first Dex on Sui.
Yeah, it's a technology and functionality.
You just need to run the space.
Like, it's not...
Yeah, but this is the atypical go-through
for a lot of projects.
And then the other ones are like,
oh, we need NFTs with better IP. So we're going to make nft an nft with an ip background it's like okay
ip's already been tried you just because you think you can do it better doesn't mean it's going to
work you need you need to have something more sophisticated than what you're coming to the
table with it's minute problems that they try to make world problems right really here's here's the best saying in the world if it's a first world
problem it's not a problem it's really that simple and a lot of devs come here trying to solve first
world problems 100 the other thing that people don't talk about enough to hear is like a lot of
people in this space magically think like oh you're in web 3
it goes so fast and you're on this different wavelength and plane it's like people
you have to interact with web 2 to actually build tangible sustainable products
and just because you're in web 3 like if you don't understand how web 2 works and traditional
business works there's no magical pill here
because you're in web 3 it's going to make things work and it's it's crazy to me too that like
for some odd reason we think it's just a different world because maybe it works faster
uh and we expect things faster because it works faster. But at the end of the day, a lot of times to bring the things that you need to fruition, you still need some Web2
presence and that takes time. Here's the thing, and I'll explain it in a couple of different ways.
In the engineering world, everybody thought that 3D modeling would replace 2D modeling. 2D
modeling still exists, right? It's still part of the process with 3D modeling.
And so even though you think something's going to come in
and take over a space, it never does.
It just becomes the bigger portion of it,
but ultimately the two still come together.
And so Web2.
Any good, hold, let's talk about examples that have done this.
What about that?
Any examples that actually have done this successfully?
What, Web2, Web3 integration?
Yeah, or Web3 integration overall with actual users.
With just Web3? I've never seen a project do just Web3 and be successful.
That's my point. 100%. Nail on the head.
So are you saying like merging a Web 2 function into Web 3?
Is that what you mean?
I'm saying they have to work hand in hand if you want a successful project.
So you don't think Pudgy Penguins is a successful project?
Well, I think Web Pudgy Penguins has integrated Web 2.
Walmart.
That's what I'm saying.
Starting at Web 3.
Starting in Web 3.
Yeah, you can start in Web 3, but you need to find your integration into Web2.
That's what I'm saying.
But this is our argue about Pudgy Penguins.
Yeah, there was a penguin character that started in Web3.
The reason Pudgy Penguins is what it is today is because they started a Web2 business.
of web 2 yes they started a web 2 business be where they are without web 2 yes i've talked to
Because of Web2.
Yes, they started a Web2 business.
They wouldn't be where they are without Web2.
Yes.
michael lee all of these guys that i i've talked to they're all insane entrepreneurs in web 2
and that is why they're successful nothing about web 3. yeah so i i gotta say i think it's a
that's what i wanted to hear it's like a death roll roll though like when people start talking
about how they're moving into web 2
like they're oh yeah we got the best sweatshirts out here we're gonna sell them to grandma it's gonna be great and you know and tj maxx gonna be amazing no but here's the thing you you need to
have a plan you need to execute it and you need to do it well right the reason that i think that
pudges did so well is because Luca, he,
I think he, what was he
before he came into Web2 Profits?
Wasn't he?
He did really well with e-commerce.
He did a lot of shit too,
even outside e-commerce.
But here's the thing.
He took his skill set with e-commerce
and put Pudgies in Walmart.
That's how he put two and two together, right?
He used his real world thought process.
That's what you're supposed to do,
utilize your resources.
And that's what a lot of people in this space don't have.
They don't have an outside source outside of Web3.
So they don't know how to connect Web3 to Web2.
A lot of people come in here
and their first job is web 3 they've
never worked in web 2 so they in web 2 being the outside world outside of the virtual world
basically at this point and they've never had a real job they never integrated outside of here
so they have no skill set to bring to integrate web 3 to web 2 those are the founders that mostly
fail and that's pretty much all of them across the board
when it comes to Web3.
But the thing I want to add in here too,
so again, I had great conversations with a guy with Lazy Lions,
and he brought up this point.
His sister-in-law is like one of the top VPs at Walmart.
He's like, I could go get Lazy Lions at Walmart tomorrow.
And he's like, I have go get lazy lines at Walmart tomorrow. And he's like,
I have way more connections than most people do. Like legit business guy. But he's like,
I'm not going to do that because people don't want to wear a lazy line on their hat. And they're not going to buy t-shirts with a-
Do you remember those things?
Yeah. But this is the thing though. This guy resurrected it because of the community.
But his whole point was, even with those Web2 connections, back to what we were saying before, you have to figure out the why.
Just because you can go get something on the shelves at Walmart does not mean it's going to succeed.
Luca had a business acumen and plan around why he wanted to do that.
had a business acumen and plan around why he wanted to do that people's narrative a lot of
times here is because pudgy penguins got into walmart and target wherever they did that made
them successful it's like no no no no no there was a full-on business strategy and that was part of it
but there's way more to it yeah i mean it mean, it was Web 3 to Web 2 back into Web 3.
A lot of people never caught the Web.
But that was basically how he integrated.
And it was smart.
Like, here's the thing.
The little penguins are worth quite a bit now, right?
And a lot of people could have got them for a couple dollars
of dollars if they had just bought the little pudgies off the off off Walmart so he incentivized
if they had just bought the little pudgies off Walmart.
people to go to Walmart buy the product come back in you made more money because you basically got
your little pudgies from the pudgies that you got from Walmart and that's where a lot of that came
from so he interwove a product that you know gives and gives and gives and because
he did that he he created retention and that's what a lot of people don't understand is like you
you create retention by simply creating a product that has value right and he created value by
integrating and webbing those together and a lot of people don't understand that. I'm not saying like Lazy Lions can't go to,
Lazy Lions could literally copy his playbook
and probably it probably could work,
especially if they can create the little ones
that would come back and have some kind of value, right?
But you have to be smart about how you approach the product
when you go to create one.
A hundred percent.
That's the biggest thing.
Yeah, and I just use them as an example in the sense
to just really drive home
the point that it still comes back to what is your product what is your why and and you're going to
need you you need a business background though yeah if you don't have a business background
like good fucking luck trying to figure that shit out trying to figure out a business and how to run
one and you don't have a business background is going's going to be way, way more difficult than a lot of people think it is.
Even if you have schooling in business.
A hundred percent.
What more often happens than not in this space
is they're using something as a version of a Kickstarter
that, and they, for somehow reason...
Kickstarter that runs.
Yeah, but they also get the exemption of like,
I'm going to do this by telling you a promise
without any business plan whatsoever and you know how hard it is actually like get a real
business loan from a bank like the shit that you have to build like legit business plan forecasting
for five years what's your pnls like you have to put work and time into it how hard it is to get
a business loan from a bunch of random people on crypto?
Very easy.
That's why a lot of people run.
I'm like a dime right now.
I love it.
You just don't tell them it's a business loan.
That's all.
The infrastructure is there.
Like you have you like, you know know we have phones and we have the
internet and we have like computers and laptops but i think 10 20 years from now that's going to
become like really mundane and there's to be a version of the user interface that
allows allows web to click for everyone in its entirety.
And I think, like, I imagine, like, a contact lens,
augmented reality sort of thing. But, I mean, but, like, it really is just, like,
up for anyone to sort of capitalize on it
and work towards that for the next 10, whatever,
however many years.
Could be less, I think, in my opinion, right?
Should be.
But like I said, the infrastructure's here,
the money's here, the market cap maybe isn't here
because traditional markets still hold that sort of,
retain that sort of market whatever attention.
But yeah, that's the uh that i was wanting to make
what's up al shit i was jumping in on the luca pudgy convo
yeah go ahead i think here's the thing i don't think it's just the ip or getting into walmart like you said like getting into walmart isn't the easiest thing but also with the right people it's not hard like
lucas in was von dutch the jewelry stuff and then gel blasters like the direct thing that got into
there but i think like and like look saying there was going to be a coin attached to it like months
years later i don't think that was the selling point i think like
people do need to realize that 97 of all pudgy penguins that sold in walmart or on amazon for
the first three months were pudgy holders just buying out stores so like there wasn't really
like any yeah there was no onboarding to it the average pudgy holder bought like a hundred stuffed
animals and gave them away as gifts and like that became like a piece of it but you're also dealing
with like plush plushies in a spot where like penguins are universal like like lazy lions i
don't think could do it the same way multiple reasons but like penguins i guess is a better
animal to appeal to kids than chicks and they also had like their
their social media stuff like the amount of people that i see use those pudgy gifs
on top of stuff i think was like underrated i think that's lucas one of the bigger ones
like the amount of people i knew that have no idea what an nft was but were using a cute penguin meme
to stick over the top of stuff and i saw porn stars using it with no idea what the hell it was just as what it was so i think like
that was like the cross that did it i don't think the coin had anything to do with the toys going
and at the same token like you needed it you needed enough people in a community with enough
money like i mean don't get me wrong i think there was still some manipulation on the way up on pudgy like clearly it happened a couple
times every time before basil etc but luca does understand that market like i don't i think like
discrediting saying anybody can get stuff into walmart and do the same thing i think it's like
a little off i think there's probably like less than three people in this entire space who have the ability to do it.
I think Luca was the selling point in taking it from Cole.
And then, you know, there's a network behind him, like call it what it is.
But I mean, when Pudgy sold out the first year worth of toys, it only put like 10 million bucks in the bank.
Like that's what Pudgy had, like 12 million, I think was the number he told me,
you know, so like it's there, but I mean, it's just, there's, there's steps to it.
And I don't think people were willing to, I don't know.
I mean, go through those steps or understand the vision.
I mean, even just sourcing the toys was solid, like those plushies cost like
under 50 cents.
So, I mean, you had a big margin on those, but I don't think there's any
other community that would come in there and like pull what they did.
And pretty much like, like, I don't, I didn't see anybody buying pudgy toys.
That wasn't holders going to their local Walmart when they got the alert
that it was there and just cleaning a shelf for social media, you know?
So like, yeah, that's a way of actually activating your community
towards a bigger goal like right or wrong uh if you believe in them doing that like there was a
grander vision and and my point was it is not easy to get something on the the i'm just saying that
there are people that can do it and the point was that it was what you're saying is there was a
bigger plan there it would like a lot of times
I hear the narrative that because they were on the shelves that's why they were successful and
that's just not true no yeah yeah no like getting something on the shelf was I mean he did have the
pull because of gel blaster to get like end caps and stuff like that that's something that most
people couldn't pull off like yeah I get it you got somebody at Walmart you might be able to pull that one off, but like, it's like a numbers game, but like,
you know, you still had to rely on the community buying it.
Like I got no big pudgies.
I still bought 50 or a hundred of those toys and gave them to all the neighbor kids.
Like people I knew people's kids, like more of a support of Luca.
But I think Luca was like the support that pushed that at the very beginning.
I mean, I do think that like like call it what it is and i told
him straight up like i think going into that first art basil they not saying they but the floors were
manipulated to so i think people felt like they all had extra money to you know push the narrative
so i mean it's like it was a little bit of everything for pudgy to work where it was but
i do think that like the social media those gifs and memes were like
way underrated compared to what they were like it doesn't translate well but it did push that
penguin in front of people so when those people did give them away when luca was donating these
to different stuff like it's like a slow rollout like i don't know what it would have looked like
if it weren't for those couple of factors like i think it would have just been toys and people like use another
example like look at v friends nobody gives a shit about those characters nobody you know cares about
that kind of stuff like gary's just pushing stuff in a circle between the same 10 000 people
and like it's never really gonna go like you can drop trading cards with your friends you can do
all this stuff but there's no onboarding to that one.
Pudgy Penguins like at least had something that could like run with it, you know?
Oh, a hundred percent.
You're right.
I mean, it's a multitude of those things.
But, and that goes back to like a whole nother topic, which is community and how our web three founders actually effectively using their community
to link up to their vision and their business goals.
I think very few communities are correctly activated by founders as well.
But Pudgy Penguins is an example of doing that better than most.
I think that platforms need to like build products and stay in their
fucking lanes. Like if they're meant for web three only, like they should just build something
that's for web three. I mean, I am the founder of a security company. Like we market to people in
web three because people in web three or who use the fucking product eventually apis that can go out to like businesses
and and leverage that security yeah 100 like let's push it out to the to the broader audience
but like pudgies is a fucking unicorn anybody like you this is people are using that playbook
all the time to basically like soft rug their communities. But they had the product market fit.
And really, like, I would just say, like, just the absolute fucking dream team to
push it to where it could go.
But I think that most most products,
it ends up just becoming a soft rug if like that's if that's their playbook that
they're going to try to emulate.
I got to say, I remember the day that I saw a Basie in Old Navy on a t-shirt.
I was fucking blown away.
Actually, my wife literally bought me the t-shirt while we were in the mall.
I was like, this is the fucking coolest thing in the world.
But honestly, I don't want to, like, I really don't want to dress up like I'm five
and wear, like, weird cartoon characters on my clothes because it's kind of, you know, just this fucking strange.
Same thing with OK Bears, you know, like my 12 year old kid wears my OK Bears shirt.
I used to work for OK Bears on the team.
And, you know, it's cool for a 12 year old, 43 year old, 43 year old man rolling around the fucking cartoon bear on his t-shirt is weird
I look like a pedo yeah I think that's like I was about to say like I think the worst thing that
happened from what pudgies did was it created like an a huge entitlement with every other company
like everybody thought Luca could put out you know toys and this and everybody else thought like that
was the fucking that was gonna save their project but like that's why pretty much everything that's ever gone from any other project if it ever made
it mainstream it went to clearance and then it went to close out and then it went to donation bins
like all that everything at pax on everything not pax on what was it was a pack sun when they did the board ape stuff there like i don't remember pack sun or
yeah i think it was like you know all that stuff went but if it weren't for the people that already
held going in and buying it all went to close out to clearance to close out and then they had to
just get it off the shelf and pretty much burn it you know same thing all the way down with
basic i mean you can't name another thing like pudgy was just the anomaly
of it and the problem is people built a business model off saying if we can replicate what they did
and like it doesn't you know really work and that's why i use like v friends is maybe the
closest comparison and i just say it because like it's just the same people buying it the only
difference is there's no mainstream adaption to that because people kind of miss the difference between building
characters and a cute penguin that kids and women can care about and blah blah blah like
you know i don't think any of these other ips have even a chance to
do that like i mean we can all say whatever you want like oh these look cool these look cool but
like the reality is like there is no such thing as good art in Web3, at least not on like any 10K collection.
You know, they're all like one's better than the other, but like nothing is good.
You know, I'm not going to like take away somebody who made art and made a one of one or made certain stuff and happened to put it in Web3.
Like so be it.
Like it was good art in the first place.
But like the Web3 part of it didn't make it that way.
I think the digital if anything diluted
it so it's just really a matter of like in most cases like when the circle runs out of money
and i think that like yeah i mean pudgy doing enough volume in what they did i don't care what
it was you bought five dollar plushies ten dollar plushies whatever it was like you can do it to
support but you're still giving them to somebody and odds are you're like hand
selecting who you're giving them to etc like you know i mean every kid i gave them to that's like
a friend's kid or something like that they all liked them didn't know what it was but it was
because like the ip worked and because it was a gift you know they were also like take it for
what it is like the plushies they did were all like well made at a good price point but that's
what happens when you do plush you know and even their merch their merch was all like reasonable it wasn't like you overdid a big
penguin in the middle of a t-shirt they did like igloo where it's like okay cool it's an igloo on
something but it's still over like a reasonable streetwear brand somebody can still like you can
wear pudgy penguins merch if you have it like not saying like i do or anything like that
but like you know you make sweatpants you make something and it's just got an igloo you can get
away with it when you focus like if everything would have had a big penguin on the front of it
it wouldn't have worked on the same way that like the board ape stuff wouldn't have worked
but a logo does and that's like i do see like a lot of web3 brands who have
have like solid logos and
then it, then it kind of does work, but not in the way that Pudgy's does.
Even Bordet merch, the original merch that was just a skull on the middle of a black
hoodie, like was the only stuff people really cared about.
Once you try to like spread that any deeper, it just doesn't work the same.
Like you can do a simple black with neon skull on it a white skull on it you can do like
low-key little stuff and it's still like wearable but once you try to like go deeper than that it's
the same thing with like all the people who use their ip on pudgies and like made stuff by doing
it with the penguins nobody sold any of that to like normies it all just stayed within a circle
like here's a hot dog that's a dog pudgy's taco shop yeah whatever it was all these
different like random things like luca also like kept that like let people market for him
but without using the official pudgy name you know like that was i think like the key to a lot
of it was like not letting people run with it and protecting like the actual two names like igloo and
pudgy like you can do whatever you want with penguin and you can call
it whatever you want and you can market it which puts the brand out there like you don't really
need to get paid for that if you're pudgy you just got to let people do it and whatever you just take
away the main you know the main names and don't let it be like nothing can be official but it's
still like free marketing and people were happy to like spend their
money to do stuff that he would have done if it wouldn't have been a waste of
money for him.
Awesome combo profit.
I don't know how it was fading this space,
but I got to go.
I got a little 21 year old son that needs attention, but I appreciate it. I got a little 21-year-old son that needs
attention, but I appreciate it. I'll definitely
try to stop by when I can.
So much love.
This has been great. I really
appreciate you
motherfuckers pulling up today.
And it's only Tuesday.
I hope everybody has a good
week.
And, you know, drink that water, stay hydrated, get off the timeline, get a job.
Will, you want to close out with any last words for the amazing people?
Thank you, Will.
Amazing.
