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The Allora Forecast EP 5 w/ Capx
Recorded: Aug. 26, 2025 Duration: 0:50:48Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, mic testing.
Are you able to hear me?
Yep.
Can you hear you great?
Yep.
Okay. Looks like we got tayagi back in
and jim jim hey mike can you hear me yeah i can hear you great thanks so much for joining really
appreciate it perfect perfect yeah let's get started yeah it looks like we got a good amount of people
already funneled in so we can kick it off uh just want to thank everybody for joining us today for
episode five of the lore of forecast today we have tayagi co-founder of capex with us uh one of the
hardest working people in this space really blessed that he's going to share some time with us today and taggy how you doing man
doing really great yeah i was looking forward to this one yeah same here same here i'm not sure
if you've listened to this uh the podcast or space not sure what you really want to call it
but not sure if you listened before but i'd like to have a little bit of fun keep it a little bit
light-hearted but we're going to dive into some alpha, especially
a little bit later on in the show, but always like to kick it off with just a little bit of
background on the person behind the protocol, who we're speaking to get a little bit better feel
of who they are. So first thing that I wanted to ask you was maybe you could just tell a little
bit about yourself to everybody, how you got into crypto and why you chose to make Web3 your career.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, I mean, I come from a product background.
I did my bachelor's in engineering.
So like after college, I was just me and some of my friends from college we were basically
experimenting a lot at the time um it was the era of a lot of um i would say digital product
startups and digital services being offered at the time um then i kicked up a innovation lab
um this is like 2017 2018 um did that for a couple of years. The idea was that
I wanted to, of course, at the same time, I wanted to learn and explore like, you know, how
startups are built, how products are built. So for almost two to three years, I was just working
with a lot of founders, lean teams, helping them build product. So this was very zero to one journey.
Me and my co-founder at the time
we were just helping a lot of people um ship their mvps um helping them with their gtm so very
product focused i would say very product obsessed sort of a thing that we were doing back then and
we worked from like you know know, projects across the globe.
Like there was at that point of time, there were no Web3 DApps that we had worked with.
So it was just Web2 startups from FMCG to digital products to like, you know, tab booking services, like whatever, XYZ.
xyz we were just like all across the board um but it was an amazing experience like two three years
We were just like all across the board.
i was just so deep into like you know how um the consumer psychology works how do you onboard
somebody how do you make the onboarding process the payments like almost every you know the
intricacies um we we were like you know just solving all of those things and helping of course like founding teams launch these products into the market then I think it was 2020 when during COVID when I got a taste of
crypto I just started like from trading here and there a little bit on Binance at the time and
then one of my college mates Hitesh who's the co-founder of CapEx, he just called me randomly in 21, just like the first quarter of 21.
And he was like, you know, he has been in the space since 2017.
So for him, it's been like almost eight years now, eight or nine years.
So he just called me and he was like that you know I've been like in this space
he was in the cosmos ecosystem at the time so he gave me like a rundown of you know everything that
was happening and this is like 2021 the bull market was just picking up and the stories that
he told me was too wild for me to even believe the very first time I heard them. But yeah, I think that the whole idea of how open the space was
and just how much exciting, like, you know,
exciting stuff that you could build in this space,
I think that is what essentially got me in.
Of course, there's always the aspect of,
the speculative aspect of capital formation
and the opportunities that Web3 and crypto offers.
But more than anything else, I think,
which got me really hooked was that
this is something completely new.
And that sort of a kid in me,
who was super curious about,
like, okay, what the hell is happening?
And like, you know, how do I, how do I get into this?
I just took over and I just, I think within 15 days, I moved cities, started bunking with
him and we, yeah, we started doing a lot of experiments.
First, we were doing a lot of experiments in DeFi for a couple of years.
And then we started CapEx AI.
And it's been like almost two years now,
a year and eight months now since we started CapEx AI
and it's been a wonderful journey.
That's awesome.
And being that it's a good segue into the next thing
that I wanted to ask you is,
could you tell us a little bit about CapEx
and what you guys are focused on building at the moment for anyone that's not already familiar in the audience?
Absolutely. I mean, if I was to give like a boring one-liner, I would say that it's a place where
anybody can basically build, own, and trade AI apps. But it actually is born out of this thesis
that, you know, tomorrow, like a year from now or five years from now, I think we that is just a door which will open to
opportunities that we cannot even imagine right now it's the same thing when like you know almost
15 to 18 years back when youtube was a movement and before that there was no platform where you
know you could actually create content in fact the idea of creating content did not exist at the time, but YouTube kind of did that for people that it created a platform and it created like a whole economy, like a creator economy out of thin air.
Where creating content became a thing and people started creating content, uh, left and right and center.
Right.
So I think that's, that's a similar sort of like a parallel is currently going on with the
where like you know like forget the meta forget the narrative the point is that um it's it's going
to become so much easier and easier to build things and build things to perfection not just
mvps and pocs but to actually like build an entire product and to be able to like launch it and list it in you know multiple places that we're going to see a lot of solo builders and you know indie devs
solopreneurs or single person companies or two three people companies basically in the next
coming months two years and i think that's what that's where we want to be i feel like that's
that is what drives us that is exactly what we are doing. Everything that we are doing for is to build the infra, build the tooling, build the product for these people to be able to do that.
And of course, for the end users and consumers to be able to get access to everything exciting that is happening in the airspace through our product.
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
We're going to see companies really shrink.
I think they're going to get a lot more specialized.
And you're going to see a lot of these like one, two, three person companies that exist
and have high amounts of productivity enabled by AI, just things that you couldn't have
imagined even five years ago.
You're going to be able to build a whole company and almost run it yourself with just an agent basically being your employees.
So that's really exciting. And I think we shared the same vision here.
But before we dive in a little bit deeper and get into some of the current events that are happening in crypto,
and of course, we're going to talk a lot about CapEx and what you guys are building over there.
I'd like to just kind of break the ice and do a rapid fire round uh i'm going to give you 10 questions uh and i promise yeah everyone in the audience i have not shared
the ease with taggy at all before um but taggy there are going to be some questions that are
crypto related some just general uh questions get to know you a little bit but you're ready to go for
the rapid fire round okay yeah let's go all right uh and they may get progressively harder but i'll
give you a softball one to start off so uh what's the best tv show of all time okay breaking bad Breaking Bad Breaking Bad? Yeah I agree, what did you feel about
the spinoffs?
Not a big fan of
I think the OG
Breaking Bad was like
it was something, you know
Yeah, I agree
but I would rate that number one as well
Alright, what's the number one thing in the crypto XAI space that's currently missing?
More consumer apps and consumer adoption.
100%.
Best follow on Twitter?
Sorry, best follow?
Yep.
Favorite account that you follow?
Oh, I think it would.
It keeps changing every few weeks.
But right now it would be Teng from Chain of Thoughts.
I don't have his handle.
I'm going to need to look him up.
And you're going to need to send me that after the show.
Absolutely.
All right.
And then hidden talent or hobby that's not crypto related
um i love sports i mean i i whenever i get a chance which is which has become way more rarer
than usual i love sports i mean um swimming uh badminton, paddles, cricket, sometimes football.
Football, you mean soccer?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gotcha, gotcha.
Not the proper football, but I'll take it.
There'll be war, bro.
Would you rather have dinner with Satoshi or Sam Altman?
Sam Altman.
I really
wasn't expecting you to say that, but
interesting choice. Yeah, because I don't want
to break the
mystery of who Satoshi is.
I want to keep that legend alive.
Yeah, they say never meet your heroes.
Kind of like having a mystery there.
Fair enough, yeah.
Alright, favorite sports team?
I mean, if it's cricket, then india just the national team yeah just the national team through and through yeah first coin you are ever a maxi of
uh btc good for you good for you stack sass yeah some Some advice that I wish I adhered to when I first heard it. Yeah. BTC's had a great run. All right. If you could only eat one nationality's cuisine for the rest of your life, what country are you choosing?
I mean, sorry. It has to be India. There's nothing else which comes close to Indian food to me.
You got a favorite dish?
Okay, now that's a hard one.
I don't know.
There's something called Rajmashawal.
It's basically rice and pinto beans.
Is it spicy? Yeah. It's slightly spicy.
I mean, I love the way my mom makes it.
I'll need to look for that on the menu
next time I get Indian food.
I don't know if I've seen that one before.
Sure thing.
All right, now I've got a little bit
of a personal question for you,
but I'm sure you remember it.
Worst decision you ever made in crypto?
I mean, there's so many.
So many.
I think I should have aimed on Trump.
I kind of had the alpha it's a recent one i i i kind of saw
that like you know uh go up in right in front of me and yeah i just just completely missed the boat
on that one i i feel your pain on that one man uh i was actually out with some friends it was uh
myself uh the head of vd at zero, the head of VD at Zero Gravity,
the head of VD at Galaxy, all of us executives at crypto companies. And no one's checking their
phone for about 45 minutes. And my buddy goes, Trump just launched a token. It's already at
5 billion market cap. And we're all just like, are you kidding me? Yeah.
How did we all miss this?
Yeah.
That was one happy hour that turned out a lot more expensive
than we thought.
Fair enough.
All right.
And then last one.
This one's fun.
What conspiracy theory
do you actually believe in?
I don't think we actually went to the moon.
You don't think we actually went to the moon?
I actually kind of agree with that.
You speed it up.
It kind of looks like it's in normal motion.
Maybe they're bouncing on trampolines or something.
But what's the strongest evidence that you've seen that makes you question that?
I mean, I won't even get into the footage.
My biggest evidence is that we went to the moon in 1969, right?
Mm-hmm.
And basically, we had the technology to take people to the moon in 1969.
to the moon in 1969 and for 20 years after that maybe even more i think there was no spacecraft
which even crossed the atmosphere i mean it just doesn't make sense like and and and then like it
u.s just said that you know all of their technology just like everything just got
burned so they had to now restart from scratch yeah i remember when george
w bush was president you know back 2004 something said oh we're going to send people back to the
moon we still haven't done it makes you think yeah exactly in the first place if we could do it
back in 1969 but here we are in the 2000s and we're having trouble yeah exactly it just doesn't
add up you you know.
Don't even get me started on the Van Allen radiation belt.
You picked a good one.
I questioned that myself.
All right, cool.
Really appreciate you doing this speed round.
You had some good answers.
But now we're going to move into the alpha portion of the show,
talk about some current crypto events as well as CapEx, obviously. But yeah,
we'll just frame it, talk about how we've seen the CryptoX AI vertical really start to expand
this year. Obviously, we had a big run up Q4 of last year, went through maybe, say, early part of
February this year. And then I think the hype died down a little bit,
but we've seen the hype start to pick back up
towards the end of Q2 and the end of Q3.
And what are some of the lessons
that you guys learned over there at CapEx?
And where do you think we're at
in the crypto XAI life cycle right now?
Yeah, I mean, with respect to lessons,
I think one of the biggest lesson was, I mean, it's nothing new, honestly, in the crypto space.
But for the AI world, it was new, or at least for the SFA world, it was new that how a lot of vaporware just got blasted to like, you know, billions of dollars in valuation.
And then, of course, like, you know, markets corrected themselves and like, you know, everything dollars in valuation and then of course like you know markets corrected
themselves and like you know everything just uh went back to zero but i think uh the lesson was
just that that you know like these hype cycles will keep on coming and going um but to not like
just like not just fomo into something which you don't truly believe in. I think a lot of times, a lot of teams do that
and they kind of end up with like, you know, nothing.
They basically like lose both sides of the table.
But yeah, I think that was a lesson.
We kind of already knew that,
but we kind of found ourselves in the middle of it
in the very first quarter of this year.
And we just made peace
with a lot of things and we were like okay you know screw it like the long game that's that's
what matters at the end of the day um and i think where we are headed now is uh we are headed now to
more meaningful um projects and i don't just say that with respect to aix crypto but like overall like even web3
in general um the idea of just having a white paper or landing page and then like doing a token
which hits i don't know like you know 500 mil market cap i think that notion is slightly now fading away we have seen some bad experiences in the recent times
where projects were just overvaluated bloated and they launched on finance and then they just
like you know dumped like movement is like a very good example where they didn't even have like a
mainnet but they had a token but then there have been so many others as well i mean it has been in
controversy a lot but like there have been so many with maybe not as much hype in mindshare as
movement but they've done something similar i think that that is now going away like you know
even like teams like monad and um like uh og labs like everybody is now trying to find adoption
trying to find revenue trying to find users and actual users who will end up using their product before they do a token, which I think is like, which wasn't there in the earlier cycles.
Early cycles were more like, okay, you got funding, you do token, and then you start focusing on like adoption and revenue.
Nobody really talked about adoption revenue in the last cycle, but now have started so i think that's that's where we are headed like even with
respect to ax crypto uh that you focus on adoption a lot more even while you're doing dg and mainnet
and that becomes sort of the pillar where which will drive the token growth as well right it's
not just going to be announcements and partnerships, which is going to like bump tokens. Yeah, I agree with you. It gets a little bit tougher every cycle, but I think in
a good way. You know, 2017, 2018, the ICO meta, all you needed was a white paper, a landing page,
and a picture of your team. I remember there's even like some guy out there that is just him
wearing like different wigs. It's like, yeah, this is our CTO, our CMO, our co-founder, our BD rep.
And you see it progressing a little bit in the right direction every cycle.
Maybe it's like two steps forward and a step and a half back where I thought, hey, we're going to get institutional adoption in this 2021 cycle.
Ended up being funny monkey pictures.
But I think now where we're heading with 2025 and on, you're seeing a lot more institutional
adoption, a lot of focus on RWAs, real world use cases, focuses on revenue, fees being
generated, token utility.
So these are all really positive things that you know i've been
waiting to see for you know a long time being in the space and it's great to see the industry
maturing and uh i guess you know with that you know what are some of the things that you've seen
as the macro trends in q3 and how's capex respond to them or benefiting from them? Right. I think the macro trend, which, again, which aligns with our thesis is that, you know,
AI agents is something which the world is now heading towards. I think a year and a half back
when we were talking about AI agents, nobody really cared. In fact, even like last year, Q4,
we remember like, you know,
talking and mentioning about AI agents.
Nobody really like, you know,
gave two shits about AI agents.
And it was only towards the second half of Q4
when, you know, virtuals blew up
and like everybody was doing like these Twitter bots,
calling them AI agents and stuff like that.
But yeah, I think now, like even, you know, the Web2 world has caught up a lot of activities happening in SF.
And now finally, like, you know, people like Andrew and G and like even like, of course, companies like OpenAI AI Anthropic everybody's now focusing on agents
so I think uh AI agent overall meta that you know this is where the consumer side of things is
heading and this is basically how we'll be accessing any and all of AI information altogether
I think that's that's the macro meta which uh is where our thesis also lies that, you know, AI agencies,
how we lack this internet and information, like, you know, moving forward. And it's not going to be like, you know, 100 clicks, blogs, websites, none of those things.
Yeah. And with that, what do you see as the most meaningful convergence of AI and crypto?
Is it infra? Is it automation? Yield?
User experience?
Somewhere else?
Where do you see it having the most impact and being the most meaningful?
I think AIX crypto,
like one of the biggest use cases of AIX crypto
will be DeFi.
The biggest struggles that Dei had were around ux but aix crypto is going to solve
the ux problems of defi i think that's going to be like a big unlock when it comes to aix crypto
but if i was to talk about ai in general then it's just like then it's purely ux you know like
the amount of time and energy that i would have spent in order to like
research to market research or like uh or even outside of the professional world if i just wanted
to like know what is wrong with my uh with my stomach with my head with like any sort of a
medical condition or any sort of a health condition or fitness or anything like you know it's uh all of those things now can just be like a chat gpt away or like you
know um if i'm coding then flawed away or cursed away so i i feel like uh the the journey to
reaching the conclusions and the end point to all your answers as mankind i think those have become much easier and faster and agentic, you know, in its own ways.
So I think user experience, I would just boil it down to user experience because all of this is
very consumer focused. Of course, we have SaaS and enterprise solutions as well with respect to AI
and agents, but I'm just going to focus currently
for the sake of this discussion
on the consumer side of things.
And I think UX is the biggest unlock
that we're going to see with AI,
whether it's AI as crypto or AI purely.
100% I agree with you.
I think we've all been there
where we're getting a friend,
a relative, a cousin, whoever into crypto.
And then you're explaining, okay,
yeah, to get this yield, transfer your tokens off the exchange. You got to create a wallet.
Now you got to go convert your ETH to wrapped ETH. Okay, now you need to swap. Okay, yeah,
well, you have to approve the token. No, no, no, you just approve the token. Now you actually got
to approve the transaction. Oh, it didn't go through. You actually have to bump up the gas fees here.
Here's a website I like to use to tell me what gas fees I should actually use.
It's like you almost need a master's degree to do DeFi.
Yeah, I've had friends that just say, yeah, I don't know.
This is too complicated. I'm just going to hold my ETH.
Or, you know, having to spend two plus hours on the phone with them and handhold them.
And then, yeah, every couple of months they're going to call you panic.
I think I lost my tokens. What did I do? And then you're no, no, no.
You're just on the wrong site or you're looking at it wrong. Your token still exists.
Oh, OK. So, yeah, AI being able to take a lot of that automation away, it's really going to open the door to everyone, like say, the next 100 million users.
But like, it's not really a joke.
It's by far the biggest hurdle that crypto and DeFi is seeing is just accessibility and intuitiveness.
And yeah, I think AI is going to make a lot of that much, much easier.
And it's going to be even more simple than what you have on your phone
today, like you're using an app, you know, all these things with like wallets and bridging,
that's all going to get abstracted away. Knowing where to optimize, where to place your yield,
all that will get abstracted away. Agents will be able to do that for you. So I really like
what that feature has in store. But yeah, i ask you next uh like what is your vision for
ai apps and agents like 12 months from now you know we're having a follow-up conversation a
year from now what does that landscape look like what changes are we going to see
yeah i think um i don't know if it's going to happen in a year but you know the optimistic um me kind of sees it happening maybe even in six months
but yeah probably too soon uh but i think we're gonna see users not really going to apps
like you know uh when i say apps i mean like the traditional apps when they want to do things. So for example, like note-taking apps or ride-hailing apps or hotel booking apps or fitness apps.
We're going to go to more like AI apps, but I want to say AI apps with agentic flows.
I want to say AI apps with agentic flows.
So it's going to be one app,
which has all the context about me.
Now this context could be,
like it could be getting this context
by connecting it to my email and Notion.
It could be getting context because it's an iOS app
and like, you know, Apple intelligence
has all the context on me and things like that.
But now this app is going to give me such curated advice and suggestions and, you know,
handle my routine for me.
Let's say when it comes to fitness, that's going to be able to suggest, you know, diet
plans because it knows what I'm allergic to because it has access to my calendar.
So it knows that I'll be traveling.
So it'll be able to pause my membership of maybe my gym and like, you know,
some sort of a meal plan subscription that I have.
So like the way that we experience digital experiences
will become a lot more agentic.
And any sort of an app experience
that we have on our mobile
will not just be traditional apps.
It's going to become like very AI app
or AI agentic centric is what i think
you mentioned fitness a couple times let's double click on that just because i'm curious
are you more of a cardio guy or a weightlifting guy oh i i hate cardio man i i always joke that
my cardio is i just hold my breath while I'm doing the bench press
fair enough do you skip leg day or do you have a favorite muscle group to work out
me personally uh triceps is my favorite day but what about you fair enough I I would like again
this uh this is not the most popular answer but mine would be legs i i uh genuinely like the leg days
uh a very close second would be chest man you you're a psycho not not very often you meet a guy
that loves leg days but that's a founder for you man you just built differently i i love the
mentality um and yeah i want to shift the
conversation a little bit from current events to let's talk about i'm sure your favorite thing
capex uh so we'll start off a little bit more general and get a little bit more down the rabbit
hole as we go but you know just kind of more at a high level what separates capex from competing
projects in the space what what makes it special and why should people be excited right i i think um one of the one of the ways that we have differentiated ourselves
is um i don't think even like it it boils down to the metrics or any of like you know the technology
itself i think technology now uh let's say if we call ourselves a ethereum layer
two that's not a differentiation anymore i don't think that that makes anyone special if we call
ourselves a symbiotic network or like the biggest symbiotic network i don't think that's like you
know that's that's a differentiator as well i think our core thesis is what makes us different
and what sets us apart and something which which us special is that we are purely focused on success stories. It's sort of like AIX crypto project, but with a very
web2 approach to how we want to see our ecosystem grow and succeed is that we purely want to focus on which products which will get
launched on capex will turn to be like you know revenue generating monsters or like you know
great which will be able to like maybe raise a lot of capital from public and not need a vc ever in
their lifetime so i think that is essentially how we want to,
like, you know, even evaluate ourselves,
is that how many success stories
will we be able to give in six months or three months
with our ecosystem and, you know,
with whatever support that we are providing
to the ecosystem.
So it's not going to be about that,
oh, there are 10,000 AI agents got launched on CapEx.
I mean, that's a very stupid metric to have.
But if I was able to say that, okay, there were only six AI apps that got launched on CapEx, but three out of those made it big.
Three out of those have combined a million users or maybe five million users
something like that you know then that those are the metrics that we want to be judged upon
uh down the line and that that is what like you know you we want to engineer and we want to focus
on that's that's why like you know even internally we have um like the entire team is more laser focused on how do we engineer this sort of,
this sort of a vibe that, you know, this,
like the founders who want to go and kill it when it comes to consumer space
is where, is what we want to attract,
not just people who just want to do like a token and then just, you know,
fuck off from the space altogether.
So I think that's, that's where I would say we are different.
Yeah, looking for long-term builders for long-term success.
That's the recipe you want to have and really appreciate that.
And I know you guys have a three-pronged approach when you're building CapEx.
You have the super app, you have the cloud, you have the chain.
What can you tell us about the CapEx
all two that's in development?
How is this going to be the cornerstone
of the CapEx ecosystem or one of the cornerstones?
Right.
So the Ethereum layer two that we have,
it's an orbit chain.
We are using the Arbitrum Nitro stack.
So it's an out-of-the-box solution,
but it is very purpose-built for the trading
and fractionalized ownership of AI apps,
or another way to say this is the tokenization of these AI apps.
What this means is that we want to optimize for trading.
What this means is that we want to optimize for trading,
And how do we eventually, how are we able to distribute the revenue or the upside that these AI apps are able to create among its stakeholders, which is token holders for this sort of an AI app token that is out there.
So these two things is what we
want to optimize for at the moment uh and i think that's where um like you know the performance of
the capex chain like any sort of a native wallet that we have within our app the bridge bridging
solution that we have uh within the app that would become a part of the main net launch like all these
things are designed in a way that we are able to,
like, you know, everything just boils down to,
are we able to facilitate faster transactions,
faster trading experiences, seamless trading experiences?
Like even though it's a DEX, we want to have experiences
which don't feel like a DEX, which feel like a centralized exchange,
no signing of transactions, no approval of tokens.
transactions no approval of tokens so that sort of a thing like you know having uh having
So that sort of a thing, like, you know, having,
like smart accounts natively become a part of the experience that web 3 completely becomes invisible
and i think we are we are able to do those things because we have an l2 i think it the best part
about this l2 is that nobody will ever notice that there's an L2 that exists.
Yeah, we're really good friends with the team over at Arbitrum.
We actually had Chase on the show maybe about a month ago.
But why did you guys decide to go with an Orbit Chain instead of something else like being part of its Super Chain ecosystem?
What drew you over to working with the Off Chain team?
Right, it happened actually very organically.
Before this, we were trying some, you know,
ZK solutions at the time,
but nothing had the performance that we wanted to,
like, you know, with respect to, let's say,
the throughput and the transactions per second.
That just wasn't there.
So we started looking at optimistic rollups and at the time Arbitrum Nitro made the
most sense so we kind of implemented the entire thing on our own and we never
even got in touch with the Arbitrum team it was I think six months after we had implemented it uh ourselves that we got in touch with the Arbitrum team and and this was
during each CC last year and we told them that okay you know we are actually one of the chains
and they were very surprised they were like oh you never got in touch we didn't even like we
didn't even know that like you guys were using this and that's when we like met chase and
you know the whole gang and um we kind of started then uh getting a lot of support in fact a lot of
hands-on support as well from the Arbitrum team itself and yeah then we made our testnet live
before that was in alpha then we made it live and now it's been like eight
nine months and we've been some seeing some really great traction the reason why we wanted to become
a part of the orbit ecosystem wasn't even like it didn't even have anything to do with arbitram
it was purely because there was no other stack which was as performant as Orbit at the time.
At the same time, which gave us the ability to have a native gas token.
So those two things played the major factors.
And then, of course, once we got in touch with Arbitrum,
the support has been phenomenal.
There's been nothing which even comes close to how Arbitrum has pushed us. That's an awesome story. And yeah, I love working like what Arbitrum, like how Arbitrum has pushed us.
That's an awesome story.
And yeah, I love working with the Arbitrum team
and they're probably one of, if not the top L1, L2 teams
in the space that really see the vision
when it comes to AI and the future
of how crypto and AI are going to blend together.
So I really appreciate the vision that they have.
And it's great that you guys are working with them on an Orbit chain and love to see together. So I really appreciate the vision that they have. And it's great that you guys are working with them on an Orbit chain. And love to see it. Love to see all the friends
in the space working together and collaborating with each other. And then something else I wanted
to ask you about is we're seeing user expectations evolve. And these are being shaped by both AI and Web3.
But how's this influencing your product or growth strategy?
What new use cases does CapEx help unlock
that weren't previously available, say 12, 24 months ago?
Right.
So I think whenever it comes down to evaluating CapEx,
I divide it into two parts.
One is the part where we have offerings like CapEx app and CapEx cloud.
So those two things are very unique.
CapEx cloud is almost like a Web3 independent sort of a service.
Even somebody who's a Web2 dev can use it very easily, seamlessly.
Again, the Web3 part is completely invisible there.
And in one line, it's basically railway.com,
but decentralized.
So it's for anybody to deploy their AI apps
and scale their AI apps,
they can use CapEx Cloud as a solution.
And then we have CapEx Super App,
which is home to all the new AI apps
and agents which get launched on CapEx, as well as it's a place for people to be able to launch
tokens and not just list their apps. So these two things is what we are doing uniquely or i would say we are one of the very few people who are
taking this approach of combining you know like a robin hood sort of trading experience with
ios app store uh sort of discovery platform um and then of course the cloud solution but another
thing which uh which is not native capex product but it's sort of like an extension,
is our ecosystem.
Like, again, I keep bringing us back to that
because there are some things
which are currently, you know, being worked upon,
which are, like, just on par with the industry standard.
Like, you know, like Lindy AI
is, like, one of the biggest marketing
co-pilots out there ai marketing co-pilots and we have a product which actually outdoes lindy by
a huge degree which is going to again get launched as part of our main net
then we have something called candy which is another product which is on par with Bolt
and Replit, right?
But all of these are built at a fraction of cost and they literally outperform the industry
leaders right now.
And I think that that part just makes me very bullish because although it's not CapEx products,
but it's an eco product and we know the teams and we're very closely working
with these people and like super bullish like you know the way they're approaching the way like
their fundamentals their first principles are so clean and we're just looking forward to like you
know once these things go live as part of our ecosystem and it's not going to be like again
like you know 20 apps which go live it's it's going be one by one. But the next three months and four months
are going to be so exciting
because we're going to see like seven,
eight really cool use cases within our ecosystem,
which kind of is, again,
which kind of makes us very unique
because these apps will be so unique within themselves.
Is there a particular use case
Is there a particular use case that you find the most exciting personally?
that you find the most exciting personally?
I think the AI marketing go-pilot.
I think that's something which is super cool.
It's basically a platform where, again, as a Web3 project,
you can even build a website in single click.
You can launch a meme build website in single click you can launch
a meme coin in a single click you can set up discord communities telegram bots like everything
just in within one platform just by prompting and um yeah it's able to reason and like function at
a very high level and i think that that is pretty sick that just like brings this whole circle to what we're
talking about earlier in the conversation of you're gonna have companies that have one two
three employees but they're just as nimble just as capable as employee or companies with 40 to 50
employees uh just really maximizes your productivity and what you're able to accomplish as just one or two people.
That's awesome.
I can't wait to play around with that.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I can't wait to, like, you know, make these live and, like,
get them out of stealth mode either.
Yeah, I'll be waiting.
I'll be one of your beta testers.
Just hook me up with the key when the time is right.
And, yeah, I guess one of the last things I wanted to to ask is, you know, we see some challenges over here ourselves, but in your opinion, what do you
see as the biggest challenge for companies that are developing in the CryptoXAI space?
Sorry, can you repeat that? Yeah. What are some of the biggest challenges
that you're seeing for companies that are developing in the CryptoX AI space?
Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges would be like what all of us thought, like,
you know, which is how do we decentalize AI?
I think that is not going to be a challenge. The challenge will be how does CryptoX AI space keeps up with the cost of decentralizing things.
Decentralizing parts of AI like verifiability, bringing verifiability to inferencing.
Those parts are easier to execute, but the part of executing them and still keeping the cost low is something which which is going to be like very interesting to see how projects do that because decentralization
comes with a cost and when you're competing with let's say an app built out of sf which
already has some sort of adoption or maybe you know 20 million in funding, they can make so many things,
like so many experiences seamless and free that you coming in with saying that, you know,
ours is just as good of an app,
but it costs more because now,
because, you know, we have,
we're using decentralized infra.
I think that that just becomes
sort of contradictory to the entire point of,
like, you know, how bringing adoption or like you know
ai being able to bring adoption to crypto so that part i think will become a bit challenging in the
short term for a lot of crypto xai projects yeah totally agree with you there i think it's
finding that right blend of does everything need to be decentralized or do only some of these things
need to actually be decentralized and what benefits does decentralization bring um i'm
kind of in that camp of i love decentralization don't get me wrong but not everything needs to
be decentralized just you know the key components need to be you know what's there and what's
decentralized because yeah the costs you end up not scaling all that well.
If you go full on one end of the spectrum and everything needs to be decentralized, it gets tough.
There's a lot of design cues that need to come in mind when you're thinking about a protocol or a network
and how it's going to be instantiated and evolve over time.
It can be in phases where you may have some things decentralized at first and then
the plan is phase two, phase three, it gets more and more decentralized over time as things
get more mature.
But yeah, I think you're absolutely right there.
And then as we wrap it up, if a developer is wanting to get in touch with you, I'm sure
we have some folks in the crowd that have some great ideas
and might be working on their own projects.
If you want to start developing with CapEx,
what's the best way for them
to get in touch with your team?
Right.
I mean, one of the best ways would be
to either DM me on Telegram.
My username is same on Telegram and Twitter.
So if you're building in this space,
you can directly get in touch with me and i'll like you know create a group and like you know we can get cracking on
whatever you want to build uh second way would be that you just join our discord and like you know
you can probably directly like talk to the mods and they'll get you in touch with the right people
in the team and the third way is something that we are launching,
in fact, this week itself, which is called CapEx Compose.
And again, it's like an open source GitHub repo,
which anybody out there can essentially go there, set it up,
and it will essentially, it's a starter kit.
It's a dev starter kit.
So it will help you install all the dependencies
with respect to database authentication,
setting up a wallet for your product,
as well as you just need to plug in the LLM API,
and then you can just start using that
and build entire apps or even agents, MVPs, any sort of thing using that and like, you know, like build entire apps or like even agents, MVPs,
any sort of thing using that toolkit.
Really appreciate it.
And drop some alpha on the show.
We got the announcement
before the announcement's live.
So really appreciate you
giving everyone audience
a little bit of a free alpha.
I really appreciate your time, Tiag.
It was a great conversation
hope to have you back on the forecast soon uh are you going to be at any of the events coming up the
back half of this year um not sure i mean somebody from the team will be uh but uh i i don't think
i'll personally be attending a lot of events this year all All right. Well, next time we're in the same city
at an event together,
whether it's ECC or something early next year,
we'd love to catch up with you in person
and have a beer and a conversation.
Absolutely.
Looking forward to that, Mike.
Really appreciate the time, Sayagi.
Thanks so much.
Talk to you soon.
Yes.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, everybody.
