hey y'all thanks for your patience while we had to restart this it'll
start in a couple of minutes
while we wait please share the space the previous space link wasn't wasn't
working had some technical difficulties please share the space and we'll kick
this off very very shortly
Luke Sanjay welcome they just changed the UI I think the UX of x-space is
just now something's a little bit different what's going on guys your GM
GM how you guys doing doing well in you good I'm trying to figure out what they
change in the UI or UX because maybe I'm tripping looks the same to you maybe I
need to update my app Sanjay when they when I said when I accepted you guys
request the UI of it UX of it rather it looks a little bit different like the
words it's not as it's not as let's say you know large in font size it's a little
bit smaller in font size looks a little bit a tad different enough to where if
we do this every single day those that do at a constant basis will know Luke
how you doing hey doing good man thanks for having me likewise appreciate you
jumping up as well guys gals remember please share this space the previous
space did have some technical errors when obviously trying to go live please
share the space send it in chats please repost the bottom is the button to do so
it's on the bottom right the purple one there please do that who's on the planet
mojo account you got a Ted head of marketing awesome Ted appreciate you as
well and we will kick this off very shortly Heidi I did I did try to accept
your request I don't know if it went through once again more difficulties
inviting matrix on stage as well
matrix how you doing quick mic check on you hey hey guys sorry sorry for the
late okay yeah yeah very good even though it's a 5 a.m. now it's 5 a.m. wow
we appreciate you joining us despite the the 5 a.m. schedule that's okay yeah
happy to join you guys perfect okay so we will definitely kick things off here
I do want to address the title of the space obviously it is the elephant in
the room the best rewards incentive and obviously it's take two because it's
second space so once again for the tenth time please you start to share the space
retweet it post it like it comment bookmark it that is down below in the
purple button please click that Sanjay when when obviously thinking of this
title reading it out loud or even saying it over the phone over the spaces rather
the best reward incentive what do you think of who had the best reward
incentive in inventive am I am I reading this wrong or is it incentive
right okay okay yeah okay I think like it depends on the player right like if
it's somebody you know like if somebody's only in the game for like
financial financial financial motives then you know like financial incentives
are the best rewards for them but if somebody is there for entertainment
purposes you know like I love playing games for entertainment like you know I
play like holiday default fortnight and gives like those like you know I don't
really expect anything else but entertainment so like you know the reward
incentive is different so I think it depends on each person who you ask so
yeah I think that's really depends depends on the gamer so it is a good
take it is a good take Luke what are your thoughts on this what are the best
reward setups I mean the best reward incentives are when you start to
individualize them it's really just thinking about like who are the right
players that you want to be giving rewards to and then what are the actions
that you want inside of your ecosystem or like what are the end results so when
we think about rewards inside of pixels we actually kind of like to reverse
engineer a bit we like to think about what is the you know KPI that we're
trying to achieve and for us it actually does kind of
follow along traditional gaming KPIs so that's things like daily active users
retention inside of our ecosystem and you know honestly monetization inside the
ecosystem too we want to be basically giving out rewards to people who we
think will be playing the game for a long time who share the game with others
and who are most likely to be using the rewards that we give them in the way
that we want them to inside the ecosystem and for us that's actually
using inside the game so to actually make that happen like this is a lot of
stuff that we're working on over the next you know six to twelve months is
kind of individualizing that even because everybody has a bit different
behavior inside of the game and everybody has like some different
reactions to incentives to there's some really cool stuff you start to dig into
there really dig into reward design and incentive design and I think that's just
like the tip of the iceberg in web3. Luke do you think that there's incentives
before the incentive or is it just kind of one incentive and obviously the rest
of the loop takes place or do you think there's things that have to happen prior
with behavior to incentivize them to even go for the incentive? Yeah 100% so
I do like to think about incentives in like a couple different forms so I think
there's like the hooks like the things that get people into the ecosystem
originally and you know that could be something like an airdrop that can be
something like a you know first sign on bonus or an install bonus that you see
with like Mavia so you know that's part of the growth incentive right but then
when you're further throughout the ecosystem or like a lifetime of a player
you need to start thinking about how you actually retain these users ideally it's
solely through gameplay but even then when you're playing a normal web2 game
you want rewards inside of the game right and web3 offers even stronger
incentives when you dig into the incentive design so yeah I think it's
also important to understand like where in the lifecycle the reward is being
given because that does affect how you design it as well. Luke last thing we'll
go to matrix after this obviously I think incentives depending on where
they're placed or how they're placed obviously you know it either decreases
or increases the action threshold and which ones do you guys typically tend to
I guess attack go after within you know your product as well is it we're going
to have them do the thing because of X things in front of them or are you guys
going to do X thing that you know saves them time like which which you know
threshold decreasing or increasing the threshold which one is it for you guys
personally. Yeah so we know that there are certain milestones inside of our
game when users hit them they're much like they're much more likely to be
long retaining users inside of our ecosystem so we like to look for those
kinds of things like I know if a user hits a certain quest inside of our game
they have a much stronger understanding of the game loops and we have data to
back it up that they're actually much much more likely to retain in like 28
days rather than if they hadn't made it through that so sometimes the incentive
just to get through like a bit of early game content is strong enough to keep
users in we think about that a lot if you play pixels right now you'll notice
that the onboarding is pretty bad and you know it's not necessarily a bad
thing there's different things we want to focus on when we're building out
pixels we're much more concerned about core loops our core loops change so much
that it doesn't really make sense to hyper optimize an onboarding flow that
might change in two weeks right so what we like to do is we like to create
incentives a bit further down the lifecycle of the user like if you're
coming into our discord if you're coming into like our community we know that
you're gonna be a longer lasting user and yeah once we start to get a bit
further through some of this initial iteration and experimentation that we're
still doing I think we still have like six to twelve months about that then we
can start to you know build out our retention flows more like traditional
web2 games but yeah web3 is really cool because you can kind of short circuit
some of this stuff build out games quicker build them more efficiently and
there's really interesting things all around with that very well said matrix
over to you question obviously stands as well the best rewards instead of what
do you see those being obviously in your personal experience within your own team
well obviously incentives are very important because even in the web2
industry you have to send some kind of a in whatever forms a kind of an
incentives or tracks for new users to adopt your product or audio games
however it could be even more important in the web3 industry because
currently the master of the option is still an issue in our industry in that
not really everyone could understand the wallet while most of the even most of
the industry people in our industry still use a lot of our centralized
crypto exchange other than those unchanged transaction DX etc and
wallets etc so that they can interact with other people with the contracts
like there's an IT transaction etc so we really have to I mean not for the not
for the games but for for every decentralized the word players you really
have to offer kind of an incentive to attract them to convert these kind of a
players and this kind of a web2 players or centralize the players are really to
get into decentralized the word according to whatever kind of forms of
incentives but the real issue is that but could you really retain these kind
of users or players or one your incentives of faith the other day
because you can't really make an incentive to stay every day for the
future so I mean maybe you could provide some kind of an incentive for
several days several weeks or even several months or even one year several
years but you can make them stay there forever and so if you can retain them
that could probably create a kind of an issue of that spirit so that is the
mission point really quickly you brought something that was super important I do
want to ask you follow-up questions what you just said obviously you said
incentives can be provided over you know time box time span of what six months
seven months eight months whatever it is and obviously continuously adding
incentives to do XYZ thing I think can cause a massive behavioral problem or
now people are only doing the thing to get the thing and once you stop adding
that incentives I think they stop what's kind of your opinion on that on
that do you think it's something that that should be done that's healthy or do
you think that's something that you know it's not great because obviously having
too many of something I think your condition to do XYZ behavior and
depending on what the behavior is for what it's for it can get kind of dark
what's your take well I think basically you have the two kinds of the solutions
to you address this kind of our issues first one yeah you can already retain
this kind of our users and converts of one portion of them say 10% or 20% of
all these incentive us the users stay in your game in your product for on the
extended appearance and they really enjoy your product your game or whatever
your product is actual and they continue to use your production even though you
stop in the incentives that is one case and the other solutions might be you
shipped it to you another business model like what we offered in the
metro the ecosystem replicating that business model of CSGO or saying okay so
basically we are focusing more on the blind the blank case opening so we
offered a lot of our tremendous blind boxes to be waiting waiting there to be
to be opened during the game and also maybe potentially we collaborate with a
lot of a third-party partners and marketplaces like what you what you see
in the CSGO marketplace so that people could or even merchants could purchase a
number of blind boxes and to open them even even though even without the
incentives of game token exacto so that's why we're saying we recently
launched our game token faster trading means several CX and we are saying that
basically our game token is not like the previous versions like a SLP GST
exacto because the maximum supply is not unlimited but limited to 1 billion
tokens so once the game token supply reaches the maximum supply 1 billion
tokens so the play to earn feature will cease to exist however once you would
like to open those blind boxes and you have to consume and burn our your game
token so that the supply of our game token file will well decrease in this
case so the play to earn feature will resume in this case so that's our answer
to this kind of a thesis thank you for take Ted on planet mojo account what you
know reward incentives have you guys given used within you know your
community itself that have been you know effective up-to-date and kind of I
guess if you can give me let's say one feedback loop response of this was done
well we like this because of this I think that'd be awesome well I think one
of our incentives really is is interesting because we we didn't want to
like you mentioned earlier we didn't want to give incentives just for the
sake of giving incentives we wanted to help help the users and the players
learn kind of behavioral patterns that they could replicate regardless of
whether an incentive is there and I think one of the ones that we did
recently is we allowed users to mint their characters their mojos and
champions in the game only after leveling them up to level 20 so that
kind of that's an example of something that did pretty well it it kind of made
players work for their incentive as opposed to just getting it for free and
it helped them learn how to level up the characters and they knew how to do it
more and they would do it more and definitely we saw a huge jump in
stickiness and retention rate for those who actually leveled up and minted at
that level so that's an example of one thing we did another thing more in our
community side is we implemented discord points that could be used to raffle off
every week different things that we're giving away for instance our whitelist
spot for upcoming mint and a lot of other things in-game and out-of-game I
think those those help just with retention and engagement within the
community as well Ted that was that was a great response I do have a follow-up
question for you as well how do you guys manage your team personally manage you
know expectations up front versus incentive and how do you kind of keep
those separate or maybe you have them have an overlap how do you kind of
manage expectations with incentives and the fact that okay if you do XYZ thing
just this one time you know for free you get XYZ reward whatever it may be you
won't get that the next 25 times alone happy what only happened once or twice
or a few times because of this and then kind of imagine that moving forward you
guys kind of manage both of those things yeah we have and ultimately comes down
to communication and we do that really well a planet mojo and in our game mojo
melee we we even have our founder and CEO Mike on discord often talking given
amaise and being real and transparent as to some of the things that we're
doing the incentives that we're giving and and what kind of the regulations are
behind them and I think you know when we treat our users in our community as
adults and kind of equal players they really appreciate that so if they are
only getting it for the first time and then the 25th time they understand that
and we've communicated it up front and we see a really good reception to that
good take Jason I do want to ask you a question that I've got you as well do
you guys find that there is a you know a line that can't be crossed before
incentivizing XYZ people before they kind of find it a liking to that thing
as well so I would think and obviously you can chime in here as well I think
incentivizing people to do XYZ thing before they figure out or they realize
or they you know realize that they like XYZ thing can get into a little bit of
a situation just because they they're doing the thing for the wrong reasons so
how do you guys kind of attack that at your team making sure that people are
liking the thing first before incentivizing them to do so I mean this
new era of you know massive airdrops I think is going to see a lot of that where
most people are going to be doing the thing because there's a reward behind it
and not so much because they like it and then to what you know Luke said
earlier you're kind of having to divide those those people there so how do you
guys kind of manage you know rewarding and then rewarding the right people
versus the wrong people yeah so I think we have a pretty interesting situation
over at Avogachi because we are truly a DAO directed project so for many of our
community members building the game itself and building protocol has been a
big part of the game so you know them participating in governance and voting
on the development and the evolution of Avogachi, Gachi-Chain and Gachi gaming
console has provided kind of a really great opportunity to consistently check
what the community is looking for and make sure that we you know we are
providing benefit in the future ecosystem to those participants one
standout way that we've done that from the beginning is XP for the individual
gachis for voting on DAO initiatives through snapshot so just by you know
voting on proposals that go up you're gonna be up you know increasing your XP
of your gachi which translates to higher rarity score which therefore translates
into higher rewards your rarity farming so we've I think figured out a lot of
unique ways to incentivize like meaningful participation in the ecosystem
without you know too many well-being is being played Jason how do you know and
how do you guys kind of decide maybe it's based on data based on what you
know reward incentives will work best what won't work best and then what will
obviously appease the most people or incentivize and have a great you know
feedback for those things with those people because obviously you have a
hundred people you can't satisfy all hundred it's just never works that way
it'll never ever work that way so how do you guys manage to find the best
reward incentives for your community is there data is there KPI is a behavior
loop is a feedback loop like what is it and how do you guys decide like what is
best for I guess the mass community at Avogadro yeah so I think it's a
combination of many of those things and to be honest I'm not privy to too much
of that information in my position I'm be dealing but I can say as just even a
community member we are a very open community there's a lot of communication
our weekly Dow community calls are very well attended so there there is there
are many paths for people to be heard and I think that for us it's really just
been a matter of listening to what the community is asking for and then paying
attention to the discord and also you know paying attention to the proposals
because if people aren't happy with things they absolutely put up proposals
and create initiatives on their own from across the board in all different in all
different ways very well said Heidi this questions for you I think it's perfect
for you obviously you guys are absolutely killing it right now your team
is definitely winning in the weeds as we say in business and I think you are one
of the primary factors you know the person who's winning in the weeds and
the reason why you guys are winning in the weeds so how do you guys manage to
find the right incentives for the right people actually no I've already asked
Luke this question I'll ask you this had so obviously there's different subsets
of people that exist within you know within what you guys are doing there's
person that does XYZ does XYZ there's a hyper player there's maybe the person
plays 12 hours five hours whatever it is how do you manage to reward the same
person for different behavior
how do you zoom ears are you said you can you hear Heidi or is it me okay
Heidi if you can hear this please jump down and I'll jump back up
Luke do you want to take the question yeah sure so oh here's second can you
hear me now there we go perfect go for it I started by complaining that you
always give me the hardest questions I think you I think you purposely target
me well okay just like rolling it back to incentive design I don't think you
can talk about incentive design without talking about retention design because
aligning incentives is important right so it's our goal our it's our incentive
to keep users playing the game right and keep them involved in the community
in whatever capacity they decide they want to be so figuring out those
different personas is incredibly important but it's also quite difficult
because there are tons of different personas out there you know like when we
several months ago we did a merch drop and it took a few weeks to get them
mailed out and there was a subset of users complaining about they were like
when merch like all the other people were saying one pixel these people were
saying when merch right and so defining those those groups is incredibly
important when it comes to game design and that's something we're focusing
heavily on in chapter two with these different kind of tiering systems and
guild systems we're gonna start seeing you know governance come into place and
I think a lot of players will fall into different categories like maybe there's
a player that just likes to farm all day that's all they want to do versus a
player that wants to you know be more of a leader within a guild they're gonna
want that farmer in their guild because they want someone that's really
dedicated to doing and performing that specific action right and so we have to
incentivize that structure that gameplay and make sure that every single user is
kind of doing what they want and it even goes beyond simple gameplay it can go
into creator the creator economy right so we're talking heavily right now
building out a content creator program so that we can incentivize people to
create content that you know betters the community and helps the community
and pushes us farther you know I hopped on a space I forgot I might have been
with you even and someone was joking that the only incentive and in web 3 is
things that provide monetary value and we all laughed and because that's funny
but I also find it a little short-minded right there's a lot of different
personas within web 3 but that is that is one of them and we can't ignore them
either because they are important to the whole ecosystem so I don't remember
your original question it might have been how are we doing this and I would
say a lot of work and paying a lot of attention to our community and
listening to them Heidi you said earlier that pick on you I don't pick on you you
just average and I want to keep the batting out it's um my next question is
do you think that the reward incentives like the entire I guess like
operational side of it like the way that it's done how it's done do you think
it's a house of cards what do you mean like do you think it's something that
waiting to fall down like you think it's a house of cards like do you think it's
it's sustainable over the next like 10 years or do you think it's something that
just happens right now because we're super super early obviously the benefits
of being early are you know throughout history I've been there did so do you
think it's a house of cards that it's not sustainable like very very long term
because I think I think there's definitely when I heard the word like
reward incentives I think obviously a ton of it is based on monetary value of
course and when I think of this I think you know that it's based off of people
being extremely selfish and I and I think that it's probably true and because
people aren't selfish you know they want to take first and give after so do you
think it's a house of cards because of that I guess the selfishness right so
so there's there's kind of like two sides to that and the first one is what I
mentioned about retention right so it's our goal to keep these players in game
burning our token playing within the game like participating while keeping a
sustainable economy alive right and so I would say the other side which is
basically actually saying the same thing is that it's our job to continue to work
to balance things and continue to keep people interested and it will always
change it's going to be dynamic it depends on literally everything in the
world with politics economics everything right can can change people's
perception how they're interacting with your game you know people are here for a
different reason I mentioned this constantly but we're a game right people
are and we're a community people are spending their precious hours of their
day in our community in our game why right so it's up to us to figure out why
and keep them interested it's a good thing Luke over to you right Luke yeah
yeah really what we have to think about here is value created in an ecosystem
you need to think about real value being created in the ecosystem to web 3 is a
double-edged sword because you get speculative value inside of an
ecosystem and in the short run it's not necessarily a bad thing because you can
do some interesting stuff with that in terms of growth user acquisition all of
these things however in the long run talking like five to ten years from now
when more and more games ecosystems all of us do that then you know that
speculation won't quite be there right now the markets not very liquid when it
comes to the option of web 3 games to even explore but I truly do believe that
this type of reward structure we present not just in web 3 games but in
most consumer applications in general really what web 3 is here is it's a more
efficient distribution of value being created inside an ecosystem this value
that's being created is a good game that people want to be playing that they
actually would want to be spending money into that's a quite important part to
think about you need to build a game that would monetize in web 2 in order for
it to work inside of web 3 and yeah then what you get to do once you have
that is decide you know where you actually want to distribute this value
and the traditional web 2 model right you need to you know take money out to
pay for advertising to grow the game it's extremely inefficient the web 3
thesis is kind of just cutting out that middleman of you know advertising
getting rid of the Googles the apples all of that and instead figuring out
reward distributions inside of your ecosystem that can actually help you
achieve you know the ecosystems on goal which is growth you know more volume
whatever it is it's a good take Luke and I was definitely I think the initiative
for the internet very early on and then corporate networks came in obviously
change that and swoop that lost Jason you had your hand up over to you yeah I
think it's just super important to look at web 3 as in addition to gaming in
general and that's something that I think we're very focused on over at
have gachi which is web 3 being a utility layer that's added to gaming as
a whole and I think if the focus remains on you know engaging gaming experiences
and just maximizing the player experience through web 3 then you know
everyone's a winner so I do think that that's part of the longevity of a lot of
these projects is going to come down to the end goal and if it it was creating
an engaging gaming experience then I think I think the longevity is way more
likely and just just something that I think is always important to keep in
mind because you know the incentives and a lot of a lot of those elements they
were created originally with purpose you know a lot of these projects are funded
that way and that's why there were these financial incentives and and and all
that but as the industry grows we're also going to see the need for the
web 3 elements for fundraising and also for player rewards are going to shift a
bit so I think it's going to be a constant evolution Jason do you think
the rest of the world adapts to our ideology in this small super super
super very super niche bubble or do you think we end up adapting you know in 20
years the rest of the world ideology which is a corporate you know the
corporate structure the corporate networks where you're using their thing
to Luke's point you know they become the middleman for x-y things and there's no
more reward instead of or does the rest of the world you know in 10 15 years 30
years whatever it is adapt to what we're doing here and this becomes now the new
norm so we're almost meeting you know consumers people where they are or they
kind of coming to us and bring what they have and we lose so I do think this is a
situation where we do meet in the middle and I do I think part of that is because
web 3 and blockchain in general are going to be kind of ubiquitous across
the board with with industry so so as the rest of the world starts to adapt
this technology and we start to see it make its way into you know all types of
business I think reward structures people will be more used to using the
tack or they won't even know they're using the tech so I think that it's one
of those things that we approach from both sides and then by the time we get
to the middle all of the boundaries have kind of dissolved for the most
it's a fair take Ted I don't want to ask you this as well when looking at the 10
which is total dressable market right up of really anything do you think the best
reward instead of allow you to maybe eat out some of that market whether it's 1
percent 0.5 percent something small even 5 percent if you're got a great team
whatever it is do you think that assists with longevity the right-room reward
incentives or anything it's something that is more so short-term and it
doesn't for the long term kind of you know take away suck up you know ingest
digest you know some of the time I mean I look at incentives in general as a
tool to get to that total addressable market really so I wouldn't say it's a
short-term term or long-term thing I think it is something that will always
be used as a tool and we've seen it in other industries you know there's a
reason why credit cards offer you know rewards programs and things like that it
works it keeps people you know and it's not necessarily the thing that keeps
people spending but it gets them there and they definitely have grown over the
years right so I think I look at it the same way and and like what was just
mentioned I think in general we're gonna have a new generation growing up
pretty soon and all they're gonna know is this technology right they're they're
really not gonna know anything else so it's just gonna grow and we're kind of
at the forefront of it and what we do now really matters as to how things will
emerge in the future that's fair that's fair Sanjay over to you do you think
that from the gaming sector as well the gaming vertical do you think that rewards
and the reward instead of you know the way that it works currently do you think
people should be rewarded for paying attention yes I think people should
definitely be rewarded for paying attention at least for now because you
know like we are still new we're so kind of like getting to the masses so I
think we should incentivize the people who are early and we should kind of
incentivize more people to come through and kind of like enjoy these rewards and
see what's this you know this whole space is about and what this space can
be in the future so you know just like when just like when a new game launches
and they do a lot of tournaments and stuff and they give away free money
that's like you know that's also them basically paying for attention right
airdrops are the same thing and you know multiple other things even in
restaurants like in web to businesses when there's a wet there's a restaurant
opens up you know usually they give 50% off subs or whatever in the first first
week so these are just ways to kind of like incentivize early early members or
early users so I think we should definitely kind of you know like reward
these people who are here early and building with us and then eventually
eventually that I think the reward structure will kind of like or should
decrease just for the sustainability but but yeah in the beginning we should
definitely reward people for attention do you think do you think that was great
response by the way do you think that I guess pregame incentives and then in-game
incentives can operate without each other or must a team that's operating in
the gaming vertical of obviously crypto NFTs needs to have both or can one
exist without the other and then which one to stack that question went which
one for I guess you know I guess pertaining and DAU is more important
pre or in-game incentives yeah so I think pregame incentives and in-game
incentives are both like different are for both different purposes so you know
this is something I was met I was talking about in the space earlier today
right like there are some games who have users right who have kind of mastered
getting these users so Pixa is a great example right like the hundreds of
thousands of users not millions right like they already have acquired these
users so they don't really need that pregame incentive because they kind of
already have the users and the game is out and playable already but to retain
those users like Heidi was mentioned to like you know to have retention and
stuff I think you might need or want to take advantage of in-game incentives or
in-game rewards but you know if it's a new game and it's coming out then yeah
you gotta you gotta use the pregame rewards and pregame incentives to attract
the users but once the users are there that's when you use the in-game
incentives to kind of like keep them there and you know just retain those
users so I think both have different reasons or purposes and they both can
coexist or they call both can come one and then after the other and yeah I
think both are cool and I would not as a marketing like from the marketing
perspective I think every game should have both very good thing matrix I do
want to ask you as well but the kind of the I guess the in-game incentives from
mobile I mean I played a bunch of mobile games sometimes you know longer than a
week sometimes less than five minutes depending on what it is what are some of
the most effective reward incentives matrix you have seen within mobile
gaming and you can even relate give example or case study in traditional
mobile gaming or you can mention one from our space or one that you found
within your team is a great case study for everyone to listen to well most of
the incentives in matrix ecosystem is very similar to that of a CSGO on
this early are those blind cases which could probably chop some very rare
items are like those weapon schemes globe schemes and extremely rare
genesis avatars including as well as our game token and even governance token
exacto so that really depends on the probability of dropping out some rare
species of the game items and the that kind of a probability also depends on
the rarity of the RTS that you holds so essentially matrix of welcomes all
kinds of free users players and to say that every what he uses don't really
have the add any access to what three wallets could ask or play any gamer from
in inside the matrix ecosystem however if they are not matrix an IT holders
normally they can really stand a very high probability over getting those rare
items are dropping out of the blind cases exacto and I also would like to
address your previous question in that we really believe the incentives to
attract those users like Sanjay has already answered previously that these
kind of very incentive are very useful if you want to co-star your new product
but once you are cumulated enough user base going forward in the future is
really a little bit of difficult to retain those users to really using the
same tactics that Harvard you probably have to imply adopted some a new value
added to measure so like you introduce some new games or even the absolute you
absolute three absolute four absolute X the exacto to retain these kind of our
users or you could shift your business model to a more sustainable more
sustainable approach like turning your business from a gaming developer pure
gaming developer to a gaming publisher exacto so that's how matrix are see
this kind of our issues how matrix is going to address and in our pipeline
currently we have a matrix file CSGO like mobile game which to be delivered
officially delivered quite soon and currently already in the final phase of
testing before the official launch and also we have our battle royale game
sharing the same worthy stories and all star in line with that of the matrix
file which is called a matrix battle to be released probably before the year end
and it's currently in the research and the developments and a playable demo has
already been has already been released internally and the video is already
published in our official our official websites and official to our accounts
and also probably approaching the end of the second quarter we could also
distribute one high quality card game for our third-party partners and so to
say that we got in that with a three three games in our pipelines to release
that this year and from the start of next year we are expecting to publish
either developed by ourselves either developed by third-party partners at
least the minimum two games going forward into the future so so that's how
we as a team could create a value for the community meanwhile I think the
biggest incentives are for the community members is also the their
capability to access the creator economy and also the governance of the
whole community and the whole ecosystem because we can never rely on just the
creativity of the team because we are just 40 or 50 people they are extremely
limited in terms of our creativity so we're saying basically that in several
years probably the that common is of the whole ecosystem and the governance of a
creator economy will be handed over to the whole community and our government
token holders and our LFT holders it would be entitled would be capable of
votes vote to vote for or against that there's new contents and once those new
kinds of get our improves by the community we are an execution team will
have them execute into a playable reality immediately and then both the
community members in the common creators could share one revenue stream
out of the revenues that generated out of the new content created so that this
is a really an ecosystem that they're belonging to really to the community
member and also we share we we share this kind of our revenue stream the
future of the stream to the whole community for a sustainable incentive a
program rather than just a play to earn and play to earn we believe that that is
just for co-starting your program your project in the however going forward in
the future probably there's a revenue stream generated out of the new contents
it would be much better to be sustainable thank you matrix would you
so last question over Ted again I would do want to get to the pixel the pixel
team I was here as well for my last for another question afterwards after Ted
matrix to you guys how can I say this if there's one mobile game that's you know
complicated and then there's one there's another one that's less
complicated the cadence for the reward structure within both of those games do
they have to be different because one game is less complicated than the other
one so like this can be really stupid like flappy bird like you know six seven
ten years ago like the reward structure within that game if there was to be one
would it be something more similar and like with the cadence of the board
structure within that game flappy bird be different than you know the word
structure within CSGO and why so who will take it first me or yeah you okay
okay okay well that really depends on the category of your gameplay and what
kind of a value that you deliver and I mean flappy bird is very similar game
right and could really draw attention to your attention of a lot of people however
could not that is not a gameplay that could really be sustainable for years
and if you really want to increase the lifespan of these kind of games normally
you have to upgrade them maybe for an extended appearance and in number of you
no gameplay is really is really can't really survive more than a lot of a year
so maybe 10 to 20 years and that is the maximum lifespan for a single game so
normally you have to deliver probably the next episode or the next episodes so
that's why we're saying that basically we're delivering a matrix trilogy game
and also the most important behind a matrix ecosystemly not our gameplay but
just a matrix of worthy stories that is essentially about the war and fight
between sexualizing the data content and the sex with our resident ships so we
are delivering the matrix or tragedy essentially into promote the industry
native values such as the data sovereignty of privacy protection and
decentralization etc so in order to convert in order to promote this kind of
a value to convert more what to users into what three and we think this kind
of a value is really the core talents behind the matrix ecosystem so I mean
all of the those gameplays and all of those incentive programs have to be have
to be upgraded from time to time and you have to really add new content to your
game or to your games or whatever your ecosystem etc so still let me a little
bit back to your question and I think I think for if you are really building
successfully building a very complicated ecosystem I think it's much
more probable for your ecosystem or your game or your games to be extent of to be
to be there for extended periods however in this case our complicated
ecosystem is much more difficult to co-star so that's really the double size
of one coin or one token so you have the easy side you have the difficult
side but for a similar game like flabby bird that we saw ten years ago that in
that it's very easy for this kind of a game to get a very popular across the
world but the the true issue is that whether you couldn't be sustainable for
ten years or even twenty years or whatever so anyway and I think you have
probably already seen the latest move by ugalapse or by other leading up to
projects just several years ago that they will continue to drive new value
into their ecosystem so that is actually what I said previously thank you
perfect Ted over to you do you think that the best reward incentive can be
something that's free because it's free obviously you know who doesn't like
something that's free what's your take dad I mean yeah it really depends
honestly it's it's a good balance between free and discounted incentive
incentives like I like I mentioned before incentives are really just a
tool to encourage the behavior that you want your players to take so if giving
something away for free at first enables them to let for instance give them a
loot box for free in a mobile game it allows them to open open one up and feel
what that feels like to get a rare card or something like that they want to feel
that again and now they go into the store and buy it for full price or a
discounted price what have you you know there there are different elements to
that I would say a game like flappy birds they you know the incentive for
that type of game is just to get people in and and I believe it was it was ad
driven at a certain point and it's they just wanted people to come in and play
and see some ads and that's how you know they got their money but for a more
mid to hardcore game you want people to stay there for a long time so it's all
about encouraging the behavior that you want to see and it's been you know if
if free incentives works for you and you see that in the data then keep doing
that but maybe something more you know discounted could work what do you think
and obviously this is something I'm gonna ask you off whim but what do you
think the the threshold is to you know do XYZ incentives XYZ amount of times
until it becomes you know addictive behavior so if you keep you know I'll
give an example like if you tell your doctor set any sets you give him a treat
you keep saying who keep doing it has a behavior of getting a trees addictive so
what at what point do you think this becomes addictive after what incentive
threshold exactly five times just kidding honestly you know if we're
going on the marketing side it takes you know between five and seven times for
someone to see an ad to really engage with it so I'm gonna go on those
benchmarks and it really comes back to data like if you can try different
different ways and incentives and approaches and see what sticks like go
with that find you know rely on your data as much as you can and it won't
you know steer you wrong it's gonna take Heidi Luke this one's for you a little
bit of a curveball here actually no it's not it's more it's more subjective I
know Heidi likes her curveballs her value averages pretty impressive looks
apparently so is yours your team might have a pretty good body average combined
as well so there's there's um there's two rewards one of the rewards to attain
the bear to entry to do the thing is a little bit greater but the reward is
also greater and then the second thing is the reward is smaller but the bear to
entry to actually get the reward and do the thing is a little bit shorter I
would say the barriers on it's great which reward instead of do you think
people prefer the one that is greater with a greater barrier or the one that's
lower with a smaller barrier and why yeah this is actually exactly what we're
experimenting and iterating on right now in pixels yeah if you guys follow our
game the way you earn pixel right now it's through what we call a task board
essentially we randomly assign users tasks of our pixel token every single
day they'll have to like clear out their board of tasks that give like a web2
currency a soft currency and every now and then they might get a pixel task and
it's really great data that we're getting we basically have to tweak like a
bunch of different parameters on task frequency task size amount of effort
required for it so we have some like anecdotal numbers or like opinions from
users but now we're getting like hard data what the best structure that looks
like like one of the experiments running right now is like a constant stream of
incentives versus daily if people want to batch stuff together versus having
something be a bit more frequent and that also affects different play styles
too part of it's like what kind of play styles do we want to incentivize if we
have constant streams that are smaller it's going to bring in or incentivize
players who grind a bit longer if we have daily incentives maybe we can
spread out yeah you know incentives the more DAU there's different things that
we want to prioritize and experiment with so yeah what's cool is we don't
have to like you know do all this thought experimentation around it we'll
just actually get the hard data on this stuff and that's kind of our focus
awesome do you guys and you also guys again like do you guys believe that you
know too much of something especially an incentive can be a negative thing or do
you think it's always a positive thing we're keeping them incentives look you
know XYZ personal keeping happy with it or do you think it's a matter of
actually changing the incentive and then probably increasing the size of it maybe
lowering you know the amount the size of it maybe the duration of it the
cadence of it do you think there's a constant always switch or do you think
people are just happy receiving instead of reward reward reward reward well yeah
I think you need to think about who you're giving the incentives to again so
I would say if we give incentives to unengaged users and we don't have that
quite nailed down then that's unefficient use of our incentive program
that we're allowed to give out basically so really what we're looking
for is to give it to the best users and create incentives and structures and
reasons to go through endgame progression and yeah the other thing
that we think about a lot too is like the way that you give these incentives
like I heard you guys talking a bit about like splitting up incentives or
like limiting them per person but like what we've actually seen in practice is
if you limit incentives per person all that does is create an incentive to
create more accounts or bots or things like that too so you need to be careful
with how you actually create your incentive design because just the
construction of your incentive design may lead to worse outcomes for your
ecosystem even though it might be well-intentioned so there's things like
that that you have to think about and then yeah we also think about long run
too right in the long run of our game I'm talking like three years four years
from now there needs to be a set of users who just like the game so much
that the incentives don't matter or the incentives are just like an extra little
cherry on top right like you can't be playing the game only for the
incentives but yeah that's something that you need a balance and honestly when
you even look at MMO economies like there are always going to players that
play strictly for incentives you get Venezuelan gold farmers and RuneScape and
the world of Warcraft right it's not going to it's a thing in web 2 games as
well so it's something to note and setting up your incentive structures in
a way that also doesn't reward completely that type of behavior is
smart to think about as well so yeah it's interesting it's tricky there's
like a lot of different things to think about but I think it's super fun it's a
good take appreciate that guys gals has been a good conversation we're two
minutes over I don't want to keep anybody it is a Thursday I'm sure
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you once again for tuning in we appreciate you guys thank you a ton and
we'll see you guys next week and have a great rest of your Thursday as well as