Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
The Bull Case for RWAs!
Recorded: May 20, 2025 Duration: 0:52:51Space Recording
Short Summary
The recent passage of the Genius Act signifies a pivotal moment for cryptocurrency regulation in the U.S., promoting clarity and consumer protection. As the industry anticipates new regulations for stablecoins and the potential for Bitcoin to rival gold, these developments are expected to drive growth and adoption in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. testing testing how's it going?
We are back. We're back.
All right, all right.
Man, I couldn't hear nothing that last one.
Second time's the charm, right?
Let's go, punk. okay i got my mic to work here we go good old elon right i was about to panic i was like fun
it's you i can't be making a co-host anymore no no we're uh i don't think luckily i don't think
that was me despite my my uh android situation i don't know if my Android as co-host could single-handedly be so offensive to the developers over at originally Twitter and X that I single-handedly crashed the entire space. My Samsung, man, it just really pisses people off, really makes them triggered.
but uh regardless guys let's let's get back into this uh as soon as we can here uh i think we'll
maybe skip some of the introductions and get right into the topics for today so we could go ahead and
start with the topic of the day or we can go through the crypto news i prefer to go through
the crypto news uh first and then kind of get into the topic but if we want to flip it around we absolutely can do that so
any uh preferences on that yeah however you guys want to palm a uh pyro over there you um do you do you have to leave early or no are you can you can you say no i'm i'm good uh glad to be
here yeah awesome awesome yeah then we can uh start with the news first if you guys like
okay uh first big news here and i know we talked about this a little bit last week but this week
uh there's a resolution actually two weeks ago but there's a resolution to it and that is
that the genius act passed so for those of you guys who don't know, this is a regulatory, new regulatory system for
cryptocurrency.
And I believe 13 or 16, 13 to 16 Democrats in the Senate folded and kind of came over
to the fold there and voted to pass that through.
So first of all, open up.
Does anyone here on the panel know anything about this particular bill or have any insight
or opinions on it?
It's funny, I was reading a little bit of it today, but I haven't finished it.
But I'm definitely excited because this is the movement that we need here in America to start,
you know, getting us un-region locked from the better side of the crypto world.
I mean, as much as I like VPNs, I want to just be able to do it naturally like the countries I can.
As much as I like VPNs, I want to just be able to do it naturally like the countries that can.
Yeah, I mean, I think that we've been begging for crypto regulation to actually come through for quite some time.
People are just kind of like living in this world where they don't even know if what they're doing is within regulation or not. And everyone that's trying to be a good actor in the space and trying to act within regulation has been kind of stuck without real dialogue to write on. And I
mean, I believe the SEC, and correct me if I'm wrong here, or Gary Gensler, someone was even
being sued for not making really clear cryptocurrency regulations, which allowed for
market manipulation. And it allowed for them to selectively and potentially even politically target people that, you know,
they felt may have been acting nefariously based on their own motivations.
All right. If we have no other opinions opinions on that we can definitely move on one thing i do also know about them is one of the the elements and maybe i'm just not hearing everyone but
one of the elements uh of that particular bill is that it is going to uh check more clearly
whether the stable coins are actually backed and at what
ratio they're backed and i know like i've seen a lot of positive news sources about tether i forget
who said it but but someone important had kind of said that they believe uh that tether is is backed
one-to-one because i mean i don't know if you guys remember back to 2021 there has been fun about
tether and all the shady things there was a whole documentary about it as well I don't know if you guys remember back to 2021, there has been FUD about Tether and all the shady things.
There was a whole documentary about it as well.
I don't know if anyone remembers any of that and can speak to it.
I kind of wanted to drop in and kind of give a comment about the fact that we've been getting informed a lot about the mean points and the regulations coming in I think it's gonna kind of change that because I think it's kind of a free-for-all for most people and getting a
lot of the liquidity sucked out of the market so I think it's I think it's
definitely a great thing that now regulations are coming I feel like things
can finally change and the second the second pump that we're gonna get could
going to get could be more lasting than the last one for sure.
be more lasting than the last one for sure
Yeah, I hear there's really good regulations coming down the pipeline for stable coins,
which is really important. We do commodity markets, so underserved commodity markets,
and the regulations that we're looking at is in 2026, the EUDR, the Deforestization Act in Europe will make it so you have to tokenize commodities.
And I'm sure there's probably a buffer time in between that.
But that's when the deadline for the particular act will be like rolling out the regulations.
And on the commodity side, that's pretty good. the particular act will be rolling out the regulations.
And on the commodity side, that's pretty good.
I mean, it's fantastic for the RWA sector,
having the clear go-ahead,
what needs to be regulated, et cetera.
And a lot of that is products that we all use, whether that's coca, coffee, oil, rubber, soy, wood, etc.
All of that will definitely be tokenized. act on the tokenization which opens up a lot of product market fit for commodity markets and
and tokenization companies in general so it's very exciting fantastic hey we got maurice back
up here maurice what's up man yeah i was gonna say like uh stable coins always like in the history
of the the market like they've not necessarily always been stable i mean we've seen some pretty big collapses over the last like five years uh so one of the things i
like about the genius act is like they're trying to mandate an issuer of a stable coin to have to
essentially have uh collateral and you know to back up the asset that they're issuing and then
that way there would be the ability for people to go through like the traditional bankruptcy process like you would see if a stock was issued on the on the market so
i mean that's definitely a good consumer plus um i mean it may make people a little bit more
hesitant to sometimes issue them because you know there hasn't been a ton of liability
you know held sometimes by these these issuers in the past, but I think from a consumer perspective, it's definitely a good,
a good step forward.
Yo, awesome point, Maurice. Go ahead, Burns.
Yo, what's good guys.
So one of the other things that the Genius Act does is it actually has a ban
on members of Congress and executive officials from launching stable coins
while in office.
Which I think is really, I think it's really interesting, honestly, that I think it's good.
But also, I've got to guess that it has to be somewhat tied to, you know, like Trump coin,
and, and officials like launching tokens. But I mean, he's, you know, Trump has set such an incredible precedent
that like he's blasted a token into that sort of market cap,
you know, in the first whatever week or something that he was in office or.
But anyway, like ultimately, Genius Act,
like creating protection for consumers is huge.
And and really, like fundamentally, the most important part about it is starting to
set standards and expectations for stable coins and overall Web3 in general. I mean, it just is,
it's monstrous. You know, a lot of this legislation is the stuff that we've kind of
been waiting for for a long time. Is there any fear among any of you guys or in the market in general of an act like this passing and functionally, you know, they start to do digging into the existing cryptocurrencies, stable coins like USDC or which we know is backed or USDT or, you know, any of the other ones.
find they're not backed one-to-one and it causes like a massive collapse or a de-pegging and then
everyone suddenly you know their their stables have lost all value when they thought they were
backed uh any of you guys have that fear do you feel like everything's been on the up and up so
far with no regulation i mean i've got to say that i would assume that over the past six months
any sort of any sort of exchange any sort of stablecoin has got to be in the know about what's coming down the pipe
regarding stablecoin regulations.
And so I would assume that, you know, given some of the freaking ginormous issues
that we've had across the space in the past few years,
that they would have been doing their research and being prepared for
this, I would assume. You know, on the Cardano side, I don't know if you guys follow USDM,
they have an Oracle feed that is connected straight to their bank, and you can see how
much is in their bank, how much they can mint and burn is directly into the smart contract.
So it's baked in there. You can only
burn or mint as much as there is in the bank. And it's pinged through the API. So there are a bunch
of stablecoin companies that are coming up that are protecting themselves. And that's pretty
important. Fantastic. Sorry, sorry about that.
I was just joining up late.
You know, another interesting thing, it's a whole new service now that auditors and agencies are paying for.
It's called the Truthful Liquidity, obviously, right?
So they're just pretty much auditors that are verifying that all these assets are backed one to one.
For example, USDT has the T-bills to back their supply and so on and so forth.
USDC has the dollars equivalent in the bank, and there's third-party auditors now that are
getting paid just to verify publicly and just to stand behind it that these funds are there.
And you're going to see this kind of service.
This is a whole new sub-industry happening for all RWAs
because if you have any other real-world assets,
you have to verify that it's correlated with the on-chain assets somehow,
someway.
If it's a house, well, you need to make sure that this guy owns the house
and so on and so forth.
So it's kind of the billion-dollar industry
behind the billion-dollar industry.
Hey, speaking of auditing, whatever happened to the Elon Musk videotaping the gold in the Fort Knox Reserve?
Whatever happened to that?
I'm kind of curious.
But let's go over to, let's say, Manuel Vasquez.
What did you have to say, man?
I'll be real quick.
I'm just going to say, you know, with the regulation having to audit the one the one to one, at least that will weed out any of the bad actors there are.
And even if there's a correction, it's going to be a healthy one. And then the investment will just pour into other stables, which then in turn will just bring the market back up.
But we don't want another Luna incident, you know, their stable coin kind of type thing.
So having that audit to check on things, I think it's just going to be more stable for the entire ecosystem.
Cool, man. Adam. that audit you know to check on things i think it's just going to be more stable for the entire ecosystem cool man adam yeah just kind of piggybacking off on what man was saying i mean with the advancements of tools that we have right even compared to like 2021 2022 from the
retail side um it's so incredibly different it's much more sophisticated and that of course
translates when we're now,
like was just said, personally auditing, you know, these different stables and otherwise,
it's going to come out anyways, is what I'm trying to say. So might as well kind of rip
that bandaid off now, let us advance further, and just kind of take it to the next level,
because it's inevitable. So you might as well, you know, kind of get to that step.
So it's inevitable. So you might as well, you know, kind of get to that step.
I mean, with oracles, like I said, and I totally agree with you with oracles like Chainlink and Charlie three or whatever oracle that you guys know of, it's going to get that off chain code from the banks to their treasury.
And it's going to be a lot more transparent and it's already happening. So definitely not something that's in the future.
Yeah, you know, I think obviously, there's got to be a careful balance between decentralization
and privacy. And then, you know, you as a consumer and consumer protection, right? Because at the end
of the day, if someone sells you a lie, I mean, I think everyone from libertarians to, you know,
I think everyone from libertarians to, you know, socialists can all agree that no one deserves to be sold to be lied to and sold under false pretenses.
And that should merit legal recourse. So Papa Stonks.
Yeah. So as far as the stables go, I did want to touch on.
So when you're talking about USDT and the flood around that, that was actually all around Evergrande and the collapse of Evergrande.
Everybody was worried about, you know, what USDT was backed by, you know, backed by a bunch of these junk Chinese bonds and these companies that were literally just crashing at the time. So, you know, I prefer USDC myself.
I do love, though, how I didn't know that Cardano had that one-to-one in their contract.
That's pretty good. That's pretty sweet. I didn't know that.
I just love the returns I get on USDC myself.
And I know, you know, just from recent events that it is bad. So, you know,
the Genius Act, it can definitely hurt in some ways, I would think it would hurt the space in
some ways. But in the end of the day, it's all about safety and security of your assets and your funds.
So you want to know that something has that proof of liquidity.
Yeah.
I mean, like if you're using SilentSwap to keep that privacy and security of your funds,
and then you find out that the funds you've been working so hard to keep private and secure
weren't actually backed and they D-Pag and go down to zero then what what use was it all anyway
right i just had to fit that silent swap plug in there go ahead maurice well it also it depends on
what type of like i know they're still in the preliminary stages but what type of actual bill
gets passed because i mean we've seen these like big things before i mean i'm not from the states
but i follow the politics and you know there'll be hot topics and they'll like kind of pander
to one side and then the actual bill that gets passed is like pretty pretty dog so like if it's
a good set of regulations it should push competition kind of between the better stables to offer more
use case and like actually benefit the user but if it's kind of like a weaker regulation, I think it's not really going to benefit us.
It might just benefit the issuers because they're going to be able to enter
more frequently and not really have to deliver as much.
So it's still kind of too far out to tell, but I'm hoping it's the positive side.
Yeah, sometimes you can kind of look at who voted for it to kind of determine that.
And ultimately, you know, obviously there was a lot of further left people that that didn who voted for it to kind of determine that. And ultimately, you know,
obviously, there was a lot of further left people that didn't vote for it. But, you know, some Democrats did come over to the center. So it'd be kind of curious to hear their reasoning for why
they went kind of against their party lines to support it. I don't know if it's because there's
particular lobbyists within the crypto industry that are talking to them, or if it's an indicator that maybe crypto is more bipartisan than sometimes gets let on.
Because, I mean, ultimately, if it can get left-wing support across the world, crypto,
then, you know, that's what's going to take us to the next higher level market cap.
Because as long as people have politicized the issue and made it just
only right-wing people can invest in cryptocurrency,
then I think that hurts us all as an industry.
But we can move on to, let's hear from Burns,
and then let's move on to the next topic.
Yeah, I was just thinking about, like, you know,
with all these different stablecoins,
the introduction of PYUSD was pretty huge this year.
You know, like, all the players are leveling up,
and we've got traditional Web 2 um institutions now that are
launching stable coins um and so you know i think like when we think about backing and who's actually
backing them it's not like it's not these relatively you know smaller web 3 uh institutions
it's it's big ones that are backed by you know the biggest biggest companies in the world and banks in the world so I just want to step in and kind of be play devil's advocate for a second there's a
problem with having too many stable coins there's a problem with having more than one stable going right? The issue with this becomes liquidity fragmentation. And now you have to support all
these different stable coins, which, you know, is a part of that problem. But furthermore, it becomes
a support issue for all these different protocols. So what I mean is if there is a USDC and Bitcoin LP pool, and now there's a USDT and Bitcoin
LP pool, well, you're splitting the liquidity of that Bitcoin pair into two pairs.
And now there's, it's just a weaker pair.
It's just two weaker pairs instead of one stronger pair.
So that's essentially liquidity fragmentation in the basic terms. But that problem becomes much bigger
when you talk lending markets, right? Now you have collateralized lending for USDT, different
interest rates, and it just ripples. It's an effect that ripples throughout, whereas it's a
disadvantage that the world economy doesn't have because we've all agreed that we're going to do international trade with the US dollar.
And although they're all represented at the same value, it's different when they're all split into different piles.
Which is, in my opinion, a huge issue when it comes to DeFi.
And now you have yeah I mean I mean you
point out you point out liquidity fragmentation and I think that's an issue outside of outside of
just stable coins as well but involving them just across it like 18,000 different blockchains
and every day there's like 100 new blockchains right and so uh if it fragments that much and people create stablecoin pools in all these different uh blockchains as well then then you do kind of
create uh to me like an inability to to moon in some ways in the same ways that maybe we saw in
the past because everything's too fragmented it's creating different economies whereas if
defy as a whole was a single economy,
if we all stuck to one chain or at least stuck to a single currency,
this would be a much bigger industry.
But now think about it.
A new stablecoin drops.
And what is that stablecoin going to do if it's worth,
if the market cap is $5 million?
What is $5 million going to do?
What economy can be built on the back of that?
I would argue that more stable coins, one, diversifies the companies that are involved.
Sure, you got too big to win, you know, like to fail USDCs.
But for the smaller companies, the smaller stable coins, etc., plus the bigger bigger ones it becomes a more liquid asset and
you got stable coin bearings that get enhanced by having more than one different type of stable coin
plus there are different use cases for stable coins some are remittances some are just for pay
um there's different use cases and why why would there be Because there's different products and different projects for different folks.
But it's all representing one dollar.
When you are trading on a DEX and you have a token,
and you put all your liquidity in one DEX,
that token becomes hyperliquid.
That's what you're talking about.
That's what you want.
And if you take your same amount of money
and try to split it amongst the one token that you want, that's not just a stablecoin, then you have an illiquid multi-dex problem that is completely separate.
But when you have multiple different types of stablecoins that could just be as much quality as the next, then you have an arbitrary benefit for traders that can go in and out of mint and burn.
And that helps the stablecoin
industry in general. You don't want one company like USDC or USDT to take full control of the
market. Because what if something happens like the scare of USDT? And then it's like, oh, it's
not bad. It's not this. It's not that. Or you got a sale on USDC to one of the bigger Ripple or USDC onto Coinbase.
And then you, you know, like, so we need diversity when it comes to stable coins.
It's very important. But as a trader, when you want to have a token, like here we have the Palm token, we can't just be on every single DEX.
like here we have the palm token we can't just be on every single decks we
have to be on we have to have our liquidity on one decks and grow that or
etc and then go to sexes etc and that needs you know traders and volume and
that takes time but that's not just one stable coin that's just liquidity for
one asset so you know I'm putting you off earlier by the way but you know, I agree with you theoretically, but in reality, that's not the case at all.
You have Tether with $151 billion, you have USDC with around $60 billion, and the next
third is like some other, you know, it's probably like DAI or something, right?
Oh, it's probably like DAI or something, right?
Where it's a stablecoin, but it can't be considered one-to-one backing because it tracks the price of ETH and all that stuff, right?
So those are like, yes, there's a trust issue because you have to trust these two large entities.
But if you can verify there's dollars in the bank to represent them, you're pretty much safe.
And after that, it's a huge fall off.
There's like, you know, stablecoin with $1.5 billion market caps and so on and so forth. Like I, you know,
diversification is good in theory and the ethos of this industry. But in terms of economies,
you want universal one-to-one transfers. You want interoperability. Like we're talking about
the end user experience. Yeah, I get it. Having two pools,
now you're backing it by two different assets. You're diversifying risk. Cool. But the majority
of the time, you're affecting daily slippage. That's one of the worst things. Price impact,
you're affecting collateral interest rates, borrowing interest rates.
So, you know, I'm sure there's a case for both arguments.
You're also hurting potential like whale entry if we're talking about DeFi tokens.
You know, people looking to, because that slippage is a huge deal.
But I think in the interest of time, some Cal and Palm were making some amazing points. But I do want to get to all the topics.
I'm going to cut it down to two news topics.
And then I really do want to get into the RWA conversation because I know we have some good talks on that.
But a nice little segue here is, man, all the blockchain should stop and everyone should just go to Ethereum.
And that's what BASE is doing with, you know, making their uh the pool the pair for their l2 uh they're just made
eat that so it kind of actually strengthens it as opposed to creating like a base token or something
diversifying it but the reason i'm bringing that up is to segue into coinbase officially is in the
s p 500 uh what do you think that this means uh for cryptocurrency what do you think that this
means for coinbase and then uh you know how do you how do you think that this means for Coinbase? And then, you know,
how do you see this affecting the overall optics of cryptocurrency among the major markets?
Can I, let me make a quick comment on that. So I've just been kind of thinking in a way where
I do think a lot of of this might be a little bit
controversial, but I do think that the cycles might be over, I think, either this year or so,
because I really don't think with the regulations and everything coming in and us going into the
S&P 500 and everything, I really don't think the cycles are going to continue, which is
kind of my opinion, but I guess we'll kind of see what
goes on. You know, I kind of agree, but I will say that if it brings industry in, because we are a
service nation here in the United States, we're going to see a business boom, you know, in probably
early to mid-February when a lot of the investments for a lot of capital into business and business growth happens. So hopefully that in turn will then bring a lot of product to the
blockchain, which in turn brings liquidity and hopefully we get like a mini cycle. But overall,
just the narrative that we've been able to keep from AI and RWA has kind of stabilized our bear
market to where it doesn't feel like you're in a bear, you're still earning pretty well.
And then there are days of discount discount but then it recovers pretty well
i just want to say real quick i mean just because we're on the s p 500 even the s p 500 goes through
cycles so um i still see some cycles happening especially with with alts. Bitcoin might hold level at some point,
but I still see bear and bull cycles coming.
Yeah. Do you think that on some level that there could be a situation where it rises
in the S&Ps because cryptocurrency is moody.
Maybe stocks are down, but crypto is hot at that particular moment.
And we see Coinbase as a result kind of skyrocket in the ranking there.
I think that these two cycles are going to become one eventually.
Two being like traditional economic cycles and crypto economic cycles.
I mean, they're already paired pretty well.
Obviously, after the ETFs and now Bitcoin's on Wall Street. They're paired pretty significantly,
but I mean, recently Bitcoin's been on the up and the stock markets hasn't been on the up relative
to Bitcoin, but still, I think the more you go up, the more companies like Coinbase are in the S&P 500,
the more these two economies are going to be moving together slowly but surely, right? Which, you know, could be a bad thing. I mean, you're not going to get the volatile
swings. That's why they call this the last bull run. Because if it does sync up with the
traditional markets, then you're not going to have any more like huge 40% swings for Bitcoin.
And that time, you know, that gold mine is done but on the other side you're gonna have more
stability and you're gonna see a lot more money coming into the into this industry because of
that so I mean who knows but that's one way to look at it go ahead burns yeah and I agree on
that like you know the legitimacy is gonna bring in retail it's gonna bring in normal people and
and and not even just like retail and normies like just the businesses that
are going to be able to enter into the space without fear of um all the persecution that
has been happening for years um it makes it so that starting a company that utilizes blockchain
is something that is an actual thing that's not going to send you to jail uh which you know for
like being a business owner in web3 it's fucking fucking scary and has been scary for a really long time.
So I'm just I'm really excited for I'm actually really excited for the markets to become a little bit more moderate where like you don't have those massive spikes and you don't have those giant black swan events because so many big key players are involved that
they won't want them to happen.
Totally agree with that.
I second that, especially when the business really takes a hold of the technology.
Yeah, I mean, Cal was saying something interesting there about it being potentially if it links
up too much with
major finance are we not going to see the crypto bull runs like we've seen but i mean i've yet to
seen the the bitcoin rainbow disproven here it is another cycle following the same kind of pattern
seems like of course not financial advice but it seems like you know bitcoin's going to an all-time high exactly 18 months after the halving.
So, you know, even if it does link up with that, is there a world where we still see
bull runs with Bitcoin or potentially what I would really like to see is some of the other
DeFi markets decouple with Bitcoin a little bit because it does feel like everything goes up with
Bitcoin and everything goes down with Bitcoin minus sans like one or two hot tokens for whatever time it is.
I know SquidGrow was one of those hot tokens, to be honest with you, when everything was down that launched and just did absolutely massive numbers.
I don't know. I'm not supposed to talk about SquidGrow in here, but follow SquidGrow.
Let me tell you, you know, I don't think Bitcoin is going to stop going up.
But think about this bull run, right?
We're at $105,000 or whatever.
Huge.
But what's the percentage change, right?
40% since on the year or on the cycle, whatever you want to call it, 50%, 60%.
Like 60%, cool.
Previous cycles, it was hundreds of percents right so although
the numbers are getting bigger percentage growth and obviously you know
percentage growth doesn't mean much because the amount of liquidity that's
coming in is more than previous but still percentage growth is what's gonna
taper off and that's what's gonna and that's what these hedge funds that's
what money's looking at right how much can I make on my dollar right if I can
make 10% if it gets to right? If I can make 10%
If it gets to the point where I'm making 10% a year, well then I'm gonna start comparing it to like
You know T bills or something right put it in bonds
But that's kind of the measure of so the growth is in is in ROI now. It's not just in
How the price of Bitcoin going up.
Burns.
Yep.
So what I always kind of go back to, as the cycle moderates a little bit more and time passes, is this idea that there's only so many Bitcoin in the world.
And all of the millionaires in the world can't actually even own one. And so, you know, I think that although cycles will moderate some ways i like that cryptocurrency is entering the
mainstream because the hope is of course that it gets more retail it gets more everyday people but
i don't know if that's necessarily true because i don't know what attracts retail if you know
big business and microsoft signs with some major deal with for using bitcoin or you know is that
what gets in retail or regular everyday people or do stimulus checks during covid uh where everyone suddenly has fifteen hundred dollars in
the bank and they ape it all in on shiba inu is that what gets retail customers into the defy
market but uh maurice go ahead yeah i personally think um kind of like what he was mentioning about
the supply of bitcoin uh and also the price, right?
Like if you're, you know, what's the average salary in like, you know, United States and
Canada, maybe around like 50, 65K, depending on where you live. So it's like, if you, if that's
what you make and then you got to minus out taxes, you got to minus out living expenses, like how
many people are going to throw that into like an investment in Bitcoin. Like I get people who will buy, you know,
small amounts in like mutual funds
and like invest in traditional, you know,
methods like index funds and whatnot.
But that's a bit more stable, right?
Without people truly understanding
like the use cases of crypto
and, you know, Bitcoin being a bit more of a store of value.
I don't think it's likely
that the average person would jump in. I mean, they're going to have a lot more likelihood a store of value i don't think it's likely that the average person would jump in
i mean they're gonna have a lot more likelihood of trying to jump into something like ethereum
or solana or cardano something like that that's gonna like a lower entry cap but then even because
the risk is still so high like it's it's tough right i think it's the younger generation that's
like got a bit more of an appetite to adopt um and you
know you noted the the stimulus check yeah that was a big movement for crypto i think that was
like mid 2020 and you saw a massive part pop not only the stock market but also the crypto market
around that time so i mean an average average person who's working has kids has expenses has
bills i would say they're probably unlikely to invest in Bitcoin.
May buy an additional kind of altcoin at the top, but yeah, I don't think Bitcoin is going to be
played around too much anymore by just the average retail person.
Yeah. When I look at it and I see $100,000, it makes it hard for me to get an entry. And even
Ethereum and Solana are too low risk for my blood personally i'm like
like give me give me that 50k market cap token you know i got i got a thousand x i got bills to pay
uh but i definitely uh want to segue you know the question is too what is the top end of bitcoin how
high could it be and there's this common joke about shiba Inu hitting one cent and how mathematically impossible,
like that it would be bigger than the GDP of the entire world, basically, or something like that, just based on the math. But the question is, what would Bitcoin's price be if it was the market cap
of gold? I'm so sure someone could easily calculate that. And is Bitcoin, could it replace gold in
the long term? And if you think about it like that, then all of a sudden, well, maybe everyone needs a piece of gold, right? Like people don't hesitate to buy
small amounts of gold. So maybe that won't keep out retailers. Speaking of that, I think it's a
good segue to real world assets, which is the last topic. We only got 11 minutes left. So I want to
make sure that we hit the major topic for the day. First and foremost, though, guys, if you're
listening here, please follow all the accounts, SilentSwap up there at the top left. That is the host of this space and an amazing
product for privacy. But as well as all the other speakers that are up here on the panel,
follow each other. Just go through the accounts. Make sure that you're following everyone because
people are up here. And there's a lot of expertise in this panel, man. This panel is actually pretty
stacked, I got to be honest with you. So RWA is, you know, I think Palm Economy probably has a lot of expertise in this panel, man. This panel is actually pretty stacked, I got to be honest with you. So RWAs, you know, I think Palm Economy probably has a lot to say on RWAs,
but, you know, maybe also explain what RWAs are and what it encompasses
and the scope of what can be RWAs and talk a little bit about that, Palm, if you wouldn't mind.
Yeah, of course.
RWAs is a very broad industry.
It's a very broad term.
It stands for real-world assets,
real-world assets, off-chain assets that come on-chain.
Palm economy focuses on commodity assets,
whether that's raw materials, producer-made assets,
minerals, etc. Minerals, tea, honey,
things that are grown on a farm and sent to you. And we talked earlier about stablecoins. Stablecoins
are an actual real-world asset, believe it or not, even though you got the real dollar
off-chain going onto the main dollar off chain going on to the
main chain or going on chain is rather what I should have said. There's real estate. Real
estate is a big one. So yeah, the broad industry of RWAs is kind of a very general paintbrush,
but then within that, there's a lot of niche. So yeah, we could start there.
If we want to talk about what the commodity market looks like, how that's transforming,
we can go there as well. One thing I've seen, and people can feel free to raise their hands to talk
about examples of real world assets that have been tokenized, have been brought into Web3 or
into decentralized finance even, or ones that have been more regulatory compliant.
But one that I've seen a big of a lot in real estate, I've seen a lot of different projects
popping up, fractional ownership of real estate. I met someone at ETH Toronto who was basically
allowing you to take whatever equity that you've already built up on your house
and then sell that as a token.
So you can like basically,
and it's collateralized legally through, you know,
him in those capacities.
But I'd love to hear some examples
of real world assets here.
Maybe Papa's talks.
Okay.
Yeah, you know, as an AMA host, man,
I've hosted tons and tons and tons of projects over the years that were supposed to be RWA projects, and none of them really had what it took to succeed. and we tried to do it. And the regulations here in the U.S. just kind of prohibited a lot of
investors into it because they needed to be accredited. If there's a way to work around that
for U.S. investors, I think that would really, really make them take off. I have seen some that, you know, have succeeded as far as in the real
estate area. And that goes, you know, just as far as the houses themselves selling the house,
not fractionalized. I haven't seen anything that fractionalized work.
Yeah. That's the thing. This is not a technical problem to solve. It's super
simple, right? Deploy token or whatever a proof of
Liquidity or whatever you want to prove you own the house
But the question is will your local court and wherever you are not state not the national and not at the national level
Just like your local court acknowledge that you are the owner of a house because you own something on chain, right?
I think we're like a hundred before that happens, not just in America, but, you know, in a third world country where they acknowledge this minted NFT as a home or as a proof of ownership, right?
Not to mention any other real world assets are being like heavily scrutinized.
You need millions of dollars in lobbying
before you even get to building it,
before you get to even putting something together.
And when it comes to...
Cal, when you fractionalize at home,
it becomes a security
because the whole point is
that you're going to be making money off it
and all that stuff.
So I think it's a really huge issue
in terms of what's...
Cal, I feel like I would invite you over my house to help help code
my website but I don't know if I'd invite you over my house to help make me optimistic about
anything just just play a man obviously appreciate your expertise and insight and playing devil's
advocate it makes these spaces a lot more fun but sorry I just had to throw a joke in there that uh
it was a little bit of a downer on the topic. Yeah, I'm feeling that today.
Woke up a little early, you know what I'm saying?
Let's get this guy out.
So to answer some of the questions, you know, what we specialize on is tokenizing the province.
And then the producers themselves tokenize the data that they want.
So there's a bunch of adulteration that's happening between even the honey sector,
the olive oil sector, where people are taking honey from one country
and mixing it with theirs and blending it and selling it as a different product.
That's, you know, like say like Spanish honey or Spanish olive oil and Greek olive oil.
And they're taking Greek olive oils,
blending it and turning into Spanish oil.
But you know,
actually having the province from the producers themselves and tokenizing it
and saying, Hey, this is proof is, is, you know,
is important because then you get to see the data that the producers have
and then where they put it in.
And then on the other end, the consumer gets to see it.
Now, in real estate, it's like a whole different ballgame.
Like you said, once it's fractionalized, it's probably security.
And we probably got a little bit of time before just on-chain is believed.
But that's why we have oracles,
data sets off-chain that have proof,
like a piece of paper or something that gets tokenized.
Then you can always go back to the local government
and say, hey, I have this piece of paper.
Here's my on-chain proof.
And you can verify, maybe even go and have like a privacy solution,
like silence swap here, et cetera.
Whatever that private solution could be, you don't have to have anything public.
And you could still have it on-chain for proof.
But it's just something that is a data set off-chain that you need to bring on-chain.
Yeah, I mean, and you could also have a private contract with someone that's, you know, withholdable
in the court of law. Of course, then, you know, whatever, we're not going to get into the legal
element of things. But it could just happen between two parties as long as it's on-chain,
and they had a contract signed between even NDAs and all that. I do want to hear from Sihon,
then Manuel, then Burns, and anyone else that wants to talk, put your hands up and kind of get in line here. And then we're going to be true to time and
end the space at the top of the hour here. Go ahead, Sihon. Yeah, so I quickly want to say I'm
actually working on a similar project to this. So I've been kind of brainstorming around this idea.
I think one of the biggest challenges is the lending phase of and the lenders the lender companies kind of coming
into crypto to allow lending within crypto through a token of a project and the second will be an
nfd actually representing the title of the home so i don't think fractionalizing the home is actually
the solution here i think it's more like uh like buying it just like it happens in the real world
through a lending system.
And eventually when you have the title of the home, that represents the actual loan chain.
I mean, could we see tokenized loans where people take out a loan just through crypto on DeFi and then the lender pays them with interest back, maybe at a lower rate than the bank offer or something like that?
Who knows?
Go ahead, Manuel. Yeah, I wanted to actually touch on a little bit of whatever
he's saying is there's actually an ecosystem that's kind of tackling a lot of that. And it's
something right when the beginning when I was doing my intro, I got cut off on. And I want to
introduce them to what SilentSwap is doing and let these teams work together. Yeah, because
they're doing what SilentSwap is doing with RWAs, I think it's going to be a need for a lot of the countries that do have more of
a privacy need. But you know,
what they're doing is some crazy stuff with, with, you know,
RWAs and blockchain and they actually already have helped support and launch a
project called property keys, which allows you to mint your title on the blockchain.
So you still have your title,
but they're all working on getting that an audible regulatory thing so that people can bypass a lot of the issues with titles,
or if they lose their title, they have that represented on the blockchain forever. So there
actually is projects out there doing it right now. And probably keys is on Coinbase and stuff. So
they're very legit. They're a United States company. And BlockSquare is also with VAR Capital,
which is a Floridaida-based investment
company trying to bring uh the fractionalization to the united states and help with regulation so
there are some moves in the background i've been working with them for a couple years now and
they're just constantly massively scaling all the time so check them out and i think it'd be
something you guys can work on to really bring a whole new level of features through each other's
platform yeah man we actually do have a good relationship with Proppy and we actually co-hosted a space together too.
Yeah, yeah.
I was the voice for the BlockSquare's AMAs.
I missed the last one because I was sick,
but I've been doing all their AMAs for like over a year now
and I love what they build and what they're doing
and supporting other founders launching in the RWA space.
All right, cool connections.
Yeah, the problem with working for for sound swap is every time i try to build a new connection like oh we know them they just
know everyone in the space and ship toshi knows everyone so it's a good problem to have of course
but uh go ahead palm economy yeah um i just wanted to kind of like reiterate some of the
the products that the Palm Economy has.
We have a suite, the Palmyra suite.
The Palmyra suite has a Palmyra Endeavor, which is an STO platform.
A lot of you guys were just talking about that, where you're tokenizing securities and how are you going to be able to sell it. And so that particularly is our, you know, fractionalized ownership of RWAs, commodities,
renewable energy. We even have a group of people in Latin America that are fractionalizing a mine
because the cost of mining there is very expensive. And so you have the opportunity
to invest where normally you would be able to be, you know, you'd have to have a high capital as an investor.
But you could do that through the STO platform on Endeavor.
So I would check that out.
I posted a video on top.
Another one would be our commodity platform, Palmyra.app, which gives market access to these underserved commodities.
It's kind of like another, you know, set of the Palmyra suite.
And so it's kind of like the Amazon.
That's a big, you know, big comparison.
But basically we have about 88 different commodities,
whether that's different spices from India, Sri Lanka.
We have Sri Lankan tea, you know, Zambian honey.
And right now they have options to tokenize through the province is what I'm talking about.
It's called Palmyra Pro. That's our RWA solution. So yeah, and that'll be given to the consumers. They'll have a QR code.
And the reason why I'm telling you that is because it's a big ecosystem and it's pretty
complex, but it's part of the shared economy that we're creating. And a lot of these solutions
that you're thinking about, whether it's token even a detonation equipment um you know like how
much how much impact is that happen having um that's all happening on chain right now
through different pilots yeah that's awesome man and everyone please throw a follow on palm economy
and uh check out more details about their product i appreciate having them on as kind of our rwa
expert today.
Lastly, we'll go to Burns and then we do got to close out, guys. Go ahead, Burns.
Thanks so much, man. So I just was going to say, I came into the space because I was bullish on what was happening with some of these precursors to RWAs, like what BeChain was doing with
manufactured goods and stuff. And the flip side of that was in 2014 when somebody was like, hey, you want
to start up a wallet and get some Bitcoin?
I was like, fuck no.
But when, you know, suddenly there was a real connection to my life and I saw a real valid
use case, it made a lot of sense.
And, you know, fast forward as founder of the Defenders security company, like right now what we're building is an API security layer
that would add like 2FA
to any kind of platform
that deals with RWAs.
I really believe that one of the biggest blockers
in the RWA space is going to be,
how do we keep normies safe?
I mean, how do we keep anybody safe?
But the moment that normies safe. I mean, how do we keep anybody safe? But, you know, the moment that normies
start getting drained with their, you know, the token that holds the note for their house,
we have problems and the space like, you know, collapses. So anyway, super bullish on RWAs,
whether it's like, whether it is carbon credits or even like loyalty points.
You know, imagine airlines having loyalty points that are on chain that potentially are tradable.
That shit's really exciting to me.
And I don't think that that's really all that far away. Obviously, like, you know, we need to have some solidification of all of, you know, all the legal aspects of RWAs and what is legal and what's not. But,
you know, I think that over the next couple of years, things are going to get really exciting
for them. Yeah, man. And just to kind of close out the point there, obviously, like four years
ago, we were looking forward to certain crypto regulations being set or not looking to like,
basically some of what's been happening under the Trump administration as huge, like bullish things that we've been waiting for, for cryptocurrency.
ETC, sorry, EF, sorry, I'm like stuttering.
I've been working since 6.30, but basically ETFs, that's the word I'm looking for.
ETFs, all these different regulations have been coming through.
Soup up Milhouse, basically, for cryptocurrency and looking forward to the future.
Maybe we are looking forward to the evolution of RWAs and maybe, you know,
to Cal's point, maybe we're not like, you know,
the local bank isn't recognizing them,
but there's still tons of use cases beyond that. Guys,
thank you so much for coming on to this particular silent swap space.
Please throw a follow on silent swap as well as all the other speakers here.
If you value your privacy and security, both for RWAs as well as cryptocurrencies,
make sure to use SilentSwap as a privacy layer to keep your privacy and your transactions to yourself.
We all know the value of that.
And thank you to some of the new speakers that came on here today.
A big shout out to my friends Adam, Manuel, and Maurice for jumping on here,
as well as Kings, Burns, Palm, Shawdog, all my old friends here. So we will go ahead and sign off. We will
see you next week. Same time, same place. If you want to be up here as a speaker, hit me up earlier
and we'll get you on the slot. We'll get you up here speaking. There's a limited number of spots
and this is becoming a really fun panel. So we'll see you next time. Go ahead, Silence Plops, sign us out,
and thank you, everyone. Thank you.
