Hey, hey, welcome. I actually just got off listening to another apptoss space. Some guys from Solana and Risewall, I come together to make this new weekly apptoss space which is kind of cool.
I think just general cut everything they had a whole bunch of They had a bunch of like NFT projects on and some of the updust like personalities and some people from Salana just to talk about like hey like
What's great about community and everything as well.
That's awesome. Still excited to have you here today.
Yeah, good to talk to you again.
We'll go ahead and get started and about.
30 seconds to a minute. Hey, that's the app to us labs account. Welcome, welcome. Everybody who's joining now, we appreciate you listening in.
We seem to have lost connection with you there Greg if you can still hear us.
Yeah, Greg lost connection. Let's see if we can get him back on speaker status. It's funny. I like try to add app does labs as a co-host and or as a speaker and then it kicked me out.
See, doing too much. Yeah, so just for full disclosure, I had like a can cushion like not go longer, so I'm a little bit slower than I do. So let's keep that in mind.
with my speaking today. Oh, we can take it nice and easy. Appreciate the disclosure. I hope you're doing well. Yeah, I'm dinner. I have answers for all your questions. So I'm looking for a
All right, so we'll go ahead and open on that note. Just want to say greetings. Welcome to everybody.
We're so glad to have you. This is our series. The floor is and this is a series presented by Lava Network. Lava Network is an open source protocol for reliable access to RPC data across all chains. I'm Kegemni Karimu. I'm the developer
Relations Engineer for Lava and I'm pleased to have today Greg join us from APTOS. APTOS is a blockchain that we're supporting on the Lava Gateway and in the Lava SDK that provides safe scalable, upgradable Web 3 infrastructure
We could say for over the past couple of years, over 350 developers worked on AppTos. It's got new innovations, consensus, smart contract design, system security performance, obviously decentralization.
And it's pretty cool. So we have Greg here to represent, go into more detail on the things that we speak about. Greg, if you can, how did you get to crypto and apptus? >> Well, thanks. I just wanted to say one thing is I love the
the floor is I'm so jealous. We have to give some commens to you Val for that one I believe he was the engineer behind that. Yeah reminds you of being a kid. So
How did I get into crypto and actos? Actually, so my background I used to be a software developer at AWS and I was like, ah, I need a new job. And I got this job at Facebook and a manager pulled me in for team matching and that happened before the DM project, the lever DM project.
which was a blockchain that sort of F-tas was born out of. And I was working on the networking stack there actually for the lever project. And I just was constantly working on it all the time. It was a great time.
Fun time actually through the pandemic. I had just started in like 2020 and then My true web three journey started when a bunch of us decided to go to at us and start this journey upon ourselves a little bit over a year ago now
And I didn't even know who else was going to join with me at the time, but it's been a wild ride. I then took a dive into
Way more things crypto did some trading got myself a ledger Did some NFTs all that fun stuff, and that's sort of how I got here today
Awesome. I mean, it's I want to say that there are no conventional routes to crypto because it seems like everyone we talk to has a very unique story and a lot of it involves coming from different places trying a lot of things. So we are in the wild, wild west.
I say, so welcome you and I'm glad to have you here. If you can, what is Apthos? Yeah, so Apthos is a later one blockchain creating a better to experience for the next little era and we make
More developers, more efficient, more credible, and support defining culture for years to come in the applications of DAP space. Great thing here being that we want to actually be able to bring this to the masses and allow for full decentralization of the network.
So if you had to summarize up to someone's sentence, what would you say?
Oh, I wrote something and then I guess I wrote into two sentences. Aptus is a next generation high performance, layer one blockchain, build around
Great program, building and safety for watching. I tried to jam those two sentences together. No, it's good. It's good. I like what you said about performance that you pulled out some of the key highlights. So appreciate that. It's always a challenge to
do the one sentence thing, but I love it because it forces people to identify the features, the distinguishing features of their particular project. So thank you for doing that. Oh yeah. Another question we have for you is how does APTUS work?
And going further into that, you said it's a layer 1 blockchain and we've seen a lot of those emerge recently. So what's different about APTOS compared to other L1 blockchains? How does it work? What's different about it? Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny. There's a whole bunch of
layer one blockchains coming one our days. From Aptos on our side, it's a proof of stake chain. It uses a Byzantine fault tolerant consensus and it's built sort of this consensus algorithm that was built out of Facebook for Aptos BFTV4, which is
based off this old hot stuff paper and then as well as it uses move language as it supported language on the chain so that provides the ability for better safety and I'll go into that later I believe but the important thing
being is we're user first, we're provided proper scalability and decentralization. We had on-chain governance from day one that has voted on every single change to the network. Awesome. Now I've heard
So the 160K is a very high number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to get the same number of times that we have to be able to#
A TPS number comes from the block STM paper. So that's a research paper based on some of the great researchers here we have at the App.s Labs. But one of the things I want to talk about is if you look at the original blockchains like Bitcoin Ethereum, you could see like, you know, Ethereum I think was like 15 TPS that up to
time. I don't actually know what the numbers are at the top of the head now, but it's still fairly similar. So when I was at Facebook working on DM, we were trying to look at solving this performance issue. So we made a lot of innovations in performance, including block SDM to allow the parallelism of transactions.
Just building from the ground up to fix a bunch of the performance issues that we saw around being able to actually reach those scale for large scale applications. But I want to say one more thing. If I would say the one thing that makes it so fast is that we have a team fully dedicated to
They, the people who work on the blockchain core, they constantly run benchmarks and they're always looking at how to build industry standards around benchmarks that aren't just GAMS transfers, which is why it can be very hard to compare these TPS numbers between blockchains that there isn't really that standard between them.
and always looking for new research to sort of push the boundaries in that space. I see your point. I think to your point it can be kind of dangerous looking at raw metrics and associating that with performance. But that's really, I was listening to a talk earlier
today about somebody talking, it was CTO talking about how there was a business, KPI, a business, key performance indicator that measured the amount of lines of code that an individual engineer wrote as their output. So you can imagine how that went very wrong.
But just for those who were following along with what was said earlier, just to be clear, TPS is a measure of transactions per second. So it's really measuring the throughput of these different blockchains. How many transactions that the network can process in a second. And so APTOs has a particular
high TPS and that is reflected perhaps by what Greg has said about the focus being on performance. Yeah and everyone defines a transaction differently which can get confusing to these numbers to the average user. Absolutely. Just something interesting though something to pull
It's a nice stat certainly. So can you you mentioned move language? Can you explain to our audience what is the move language? I actually have one sentence for this. It's a static type smart contract language built from the ground up to provide simplicity and security to blockchains.
That was nice. I mean, like what sets it apart from other languages is like sort of like this overarching goal to be powered by the move language and provide this scalable user friendly experience there. A lot of like
It was built back at the sort of around the fact that smart contract languages had a lot of exploits that could easily be avoided if the language prevented them. So there was a lot of things around being double spending money, you don't want to spend just losing money
randomly and then re-entering the attacks, which I'm not going to get too detailed depending on your audience. These three types of attacks are avoided statically in the compiler checking. Before you even
put this code on Jane, it'll be checked and ensure that you don't do something mistakenly there. Awesome. Okay. So there's an aspect of security to it that it provides above many other smart contract languages. Yeah. And it's so like one of the main problems of
about like other languages, sometimes there's two ways to take a language for a smart contract language. You can either build a language from the ground up like solidity or move, or you can take a language that already exists like Rust and sort of use it there.
But then you start having to pick pieces out of the language to get it to fit in your safety bounds. Building this from the ground up lets you
not be where, oh, I wrote some code somewhere, but it doesn't work somewhere else. It has the compatibility across languages. I'll have to spend some more time looking at move. I've only looked at it preliminarily and I liked what I saw. I have to admit that I've
studied rest a little bit and struggle sometimes with the borrowing type checking all the safety interests seemed to throw me for a loop but I do like the compiler disclosing what you're doing wrong that's always a nice thing so I'll take a look at move and and I've heard very good
things. I think some of our engineers even on the lava team have said really positive things about move and it's a it's effectiveness. Yeah, I mean, it's really it's really simple and like some of the builders in our space have actually said like they built previous stuff and rust that took them
like months to build and took them weeks to build a move. Now, keeping mind of course, they probably build it already. So they know what they're doing. Right. I want to take it even more broad example. I actually didn't develop it move too much when I first worked here.
And I built a TikTok game in like a weekend full on Jane and the last
Last week I spent two days in my build an NFT marketplace contract entirely like that. So it's pretty quick and pretty simple from language and it's pretty cool to go with.
Okay, and you're your own if I may investigate you a little bit your own development background what sort of languages are you where you familiar with before So I think that's where it might be a little cheating is I worked for two years
at the M in Rust before we had reworked and moved. So that borrow checking stuff is a little bit easier in my mind. But previous to that I used to work in mainly Java for six years or more.
So you have a mind shaped around systems and some some background with the the borrow checker. That's that's pretty awesome Yeah, but I was so used to the
good old fashioned garbage collecting Java fun when you just ignore your variables and let them just disappear. Absolutely.
Do you think that some of the things that we're highlighting about move just in the conversation we're having right now are the reasons why people are saying it's like a good fun to work with easy to use language.
or do you think there's something else to it? - I think it's kind of funny. I think some people, especially me when I first looked at it, I hated it because it's too simple. But I think that's actually what the beauty of it is, is that it's not too complex today.
And you can truly get, it's more systems like than you expected to be where it's low level. So people if they're used to like Python and things, you can just use a library to do a whole bunch of stuff. It's a little bit simpler programming level than that where you don't have four
You have to use a while loop and write it yourself. But that kind of stuff will be added in the future. It got you. It's funny you said that I had a similar reaction to Go initially when learning Go. I was like, this is a little too simple and then I saw the benefit of that when working on projects with other people.
So I think that there's definitely an edge to having the Just the primitives available to you because you don't get the opfuscation that you might get with something like Ruby which is another language that I'm really into but like Two people who write and Ruby could write I mean you could write basically income
comprehensible code to someone else. So, yeah, you can write it like Python, you can write it like Java, or you can write it like something you have no clue what it means. Yeah, so like I said, I'm going to check out move and I appreciate you know, you offering up what some of the advantages are.
I've heard that we built their own version of move. Can you explain the differences in design or how is their use case different than yours that they require they needed to alter or make a version of move? Of course. So, we use a
object model for the forefront. So this provides a specific model of where everything is an object and there's no account ownership and it's a little bit different. So then they had to build pieces of the language to sort of fill this object specification.
And then there's this concept in move called global storage, which is actually very key to the ability of having shared information. And they kind of had to ask that because it doesn't fit in the object model. So it gets a little confusing sometimes because it uses this different storage mechanism and actually that
code used in aptos and we are not compatible. So, we move actually is not compatible across any other, um, when move chain directly, you'd have to do a bunch of changes to it. Got you. So, they went about basically creating a domain specific language for their use case.
Yeah, it's slightly modified in that way and like I mentioned before, right, with Rust using it as a smart contract language. When you start taking a couple pieces away, it gets confusing when you look at documentation for the language, but you have to start ignoring pieces of it.
That's a great point. I think documentation is something that we're constantly talking about and it's going to be a focus of ours coming up. And I think just as far as developer experience is concerned, having good documentation saves people headaches, heartbreak,
and catastrophes. As far as that goes, how have you found the developer experience in apptiles functions? How does it look like? What type of things have you done to save developers time, assist developers, even soften the learning curve of
So I personally, I don't spend enough time writing docs though I really care about the developer experience and I'm always asking people for their feedback. But people have said some great things with the developer docs where there are move examples that we have for a bunch of different
examples of different things you can build on the blockchain. Additionally, I just added this for a pull request right now, an NFT marketplace, which will be great to show the power of the future of AppDustMove also has objects along with the shared storage. So that's pretty cool there.
We have SDKs in TypeScript, Python, partially in Rust, as well as a Unity SDK. So that way, you can build games, which is pretty cool. And then we have some tutorials on how to build things with Move as well.
But as well as we have some ID support for IntellJ based IDs and some partial support for VS Code for Move, which is nice so then you can go build it in a self. I actually personally use the IntellJ one entirely to write my NFT marketplace and it's sped me up a lot.
Awesome. What do you hear from developers within your ecosystem about which of those various offerings resources that you have are most helpful? Do people really gravitate towards one? Is it pretty distributed? Is it based upon
experience level, what sort of thing do you see there? So I've heard good things about the developer docs from I think the more experienced people I think are very great with the developer docs because they know what they're looking for and they can find it and it gives them a good example in that space as well as the move example. See
to help as well. Some of the more junior people who haven't necessarily had as much experience in the smart contract space probably help a little bit more with the tutorials as well. I can see I've noticed that tutorials seem to really hook people
to give them a place to get started. So that's cool that you have the variety of offerings. What sort of general feedback do you get from developers in your ecosystem? Like what things do they say about the experience working with Move, working with APTOs? Generally, I'm curious about that.
One of the D5 builders on Twitter yesterday said he loves the Aptus Labs team. He thought it was the... He came from Salad and he's like, "You know, I love the Aptus Labs team. He's learned to work with us pretty well." But that's kind of funny in itself. I think I've gotten pretty good feedback.
about developer experience in general, about being easy and move and easy on app tasks in general, and the docs being that one of the things someone told me was that the examples actually work on the developer docs, which I thought was funny. I didn't even think about that being an issue.
But you know I the only problem is you know sometimes you only get the good feedback because those are the people that are telling you that I always want people to tell me the negative feedback as well so I'm always open nearest to anybody who wants to tell me I think about it. Absolutely. That's the way to be. I think though just with the like
Safety of the internet. I'm gonna say or the anonymity or even like obscurity that comes with the internet I do feel like people are often vocal about what they don't like now That could be my own perception, but it's often my experience that people are like hey, change this I don't like this and ways that they may not be a spirit
I love saying that hey, you know, why does this not work? Right? But when it comes to like a one-on-one conversation, I want like to I want someone to tell me like, hey, this is a drunk and then explain to me why like the reasoning and what like the use case is and when I get that one-on-one conversation,
conversation, I don't get that information as always. I got you. That makes sense. Now, earlier in your answer, you said it was funny that people remarked upon loving the aptos team. I think that it makes a lot of sense, though, doesn't it? I mean, we talk about Web 3.
We talk about community, what is someone really looking for in a developer experience except for a place where they can hone their skills, build the stuff that they like with a supportive group that will assist them in that? If you've cultivated that with AppTel's, I think that that is very beautiful and something very, very desirable for most developers.
I know you said it was funny, kind of like tongue in cheek, but I just wanted to pull that out because I thought I think that that's the exact type of feedback that shows that a community is moving in the right direction. Yeah, and I have been very active on the disco. Any developers who are on here?
who have been on their discord probably know that I usually respond directly to people's questions and all that fun stuff, which is funny as a more of a software developer than a developer relations person. But unfortunately, my head I haven't been doing as much in the last couple of weeks. - You got you.
So given that, what is your main focus right now? What are you planning to implement next? Well, so I do want to write some, I've been writing some examples for token V2 and the fungible assets, standards that were coming out.
which is going to provide great flexibility and replacements for the existing standards that will run in parallel for now, but hopefully provide creators and developers significantly more flexibility for being able to extend and build cool things.
You have a timeline on that.
So the funny thing is I think the token be two stuff is launching this week or next week and then fundable assets comes out next month. Those are things that I'm super excited about myself and There's plenty of new things that will be coming
in the future and I'm just excited about it all. Cool. What are the top five app those projects that viewers should check out? We always try to direct people on the call. You know, it's your floor. What are the things that you would hold up to the listeners, the audience that we have here as something
that they should go, as soon as they get off of this, go immediately check these things out. You know, I struggled so much with this because I assumed that, you know, people would get annoyed with me if I didn't mention them. So, I'm sick of assumption. I'm sick of myself to main and launch projects and, uh,
going from there. So from the deep eyesight, Fala had a great launch a few weeks ago, as well as tsunami, I think had started their public beta yesterday on Maynard, so that's pretty cool in itself. And I'm not
big D5 version so I can't come at too much and look at those. Do you but check them out. In the NFT space there's some great NFT projects. They're all going to get annoyed with me if I don't mention them all so I'll try to do it quick. Topaz is like the NFT is one of the
big NFT marketplaces on the space. So if you're ever looking to check out Ata Sanatis, take a look there. One that I want to call out for NFT project recently, I think they're starting their season three tomorrow is Wherewolf and Witch, which is this cool NFT game where you pit teams against each other, which is pretty cool.
from the gaming side Metapixel has
a partnership where they're building an RPG game called Cranzog Unlimited. They had their Play Test 1, which was pretty cool. A lot of hype around that. They're Play Test 2 at the
is coming up in a month or two or so. I don't actually remember. Later this year, and then my sixth cheating one is
We had this cool thing with Chingari coming up soon on our space for the social aspect. They're like a TikTok for India as far as I remember. Very exciting projects. That's pretty impressive as a lineup for not wanting
to be selective, I think that that was a very, very good showing. And I think if those are the ones that you had to scrape off the top, I think that that just shows you've got a strong ecosystem full of great projects. So thank you for that. Do you have a roadmap you could
share with us. Where's Appto's going? Well, I can tell you what I'm excited about at Appto's. So I think one of the great things I want to see in the future is around gaming, which is where this token V2 stuff came originally, being able to
Compose tokens together and build different things from it. So we actually have an example where it's like you have an RPG hero and then the get a sword and then the gem and you put them all together. It's really easy for creators to build that and that's what I'm excited to see from people in the future.
As well as the fungible assets, like I said, for being able to have infinite flexibility on having fungible tokens, fungible coins, etc., etc. But if anyone is looking for some future things that are coming out, take a look at the AIPs.
usually give you some good alpha on the future. Okay, AIPs. Well, okay, we'll take a look. There is one question that may be a surprise to you, but I wanted to ask because it is a key link
curiosity of mine about the name aptus. And I know it is in your developer documentation that it comes from I may mispronounce this so please correct me the ojloane ojloane ojloane
Native Americans, so I probably do not pronounce clearly, but I believe there's a Lone. A Lone. Okay, so tell us if you know why the choice of the word aptos, why has this become the name of this chain? You know, it's funny.
I think I was out the day that everyone, the whole group team at the time came together to come up with this name. I just wanted to be out that day. But the important thing here is about the people. It's a blockchain for everyone and the people around us. A blockchain can only be
good as its community and we want to provide the experience that allows everyone to use this blockchain and reach all the users in the world. Beautiful. Well that about wraps up our question section if there are any questions from anyone in
community. We welcome them. I think we did have a question from CryptoFixPro who asked, "Hey, what's happening with our Aptos community badges?" Talking about on the forum, I believe. Yeah, the
We're looking at revising the form because we've had some technical difficulties with the back end there and we're thinking about what we can do in the future there. So we might have disabled the community badges for the time being. I don't remember quite what happened there.
All right, well, thank you for answering that and thank you for asking CryptoFix Pro. Like I said, this is an open forum for any community members to approach anybody whose floor it is right now.
Now the floor is aptos and we have another question. How is the aptos grant going? This is from Ricky.
the app does not go in. So you can apply for the grants of the app does foundation page somewhere
or you can email ecosystem@aftosslabs.com I believe for questions about ecosystem grants. - Awesome.
Well, we thank everybody for their participation. Community questions are always welcome. Greg, I wouldn't have been able to tell that you had a concussion. Had you not told me you've done an excellent job.
job here answering all the questions including the hard ball ones, curved ball ones. So we do appreciate your presence. Do you have any last message for the people here for our audience who's gathered here today?
Yeah, I just want to say thank you everyone for listening and thanks for it. Looks like some of the Aptos fan club joining along looks like general Aptos and Jamrock and the indexer team making great stuff on the indexing side as well as on Aptos and even points and teams down there. Thank you guys.
Thank you everybody for joining. Greg, we appreciate you. Thank you again. This has been the floor is aptus. I'm Kageemni Kareemu, the DevRel Engineer for Lava Network.
We appreciate you Greg. We appreciate aptos labs for coming and for everybody for joining everybody take care. Bye bye. Thank you for having me. Bye. Yep.