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🎙️The Founders Show vol. 37: Demystifying RWAs
Recorded: April 9, 2025 Duration: 1:18:39Space Recording
Short Summary
The conversation delves into the evolving landscape of Real World Assets (RWAs) in the crypto space, highlighting significant trends such as the shift from speculative investments to more stable, value-driven assets. Key insights include the impact of macroeconomic factors on market dynamics, the growth potential of RWA projects, and the importance of regulatory clarity in fostering adoption.
Full Transcription
Thank you.おわり foreign
foreign Good morning, everyone.
This is Justin Roberti.
We're here with the Founders Show, Volume 37, Demystifying RWAs.
demystifying RWAs, real world assets on chain have been a fantastic part of the crypto narrative in
2025. You see, you know, I expected guys going into 2025, I was real bullish on meme coins.
Meme coins had dominated 2024. People wanted to have fun. People wanted to gamble a little bit. People wanted to be
on the ground floor of something really interesting and really kind of exciting.
MemeCoin's getting that along with a lot of variety, right? But this year, with the tariffs
having just taken effect and everybody waiting for costs to go up 30% up and down the board here in the U.S.
And of course, that shock wave is not just in the U.S. We've got U.S. administration kind of
meddling with, I was going to use a less pleasant word, everybody else's economy as well. So,
you know, this is making people jumpy. Jumpy would be polite way to put it.
By the way, I see we've got Agridex here.
Agridex, go ahead and request to speak.
I'm just a speaker today because Elon has not been working on Twitter spaces.
So we kind of get what we get in terms of like sometimes things not working.
So I'm a speaker, not a co-host.
That's okay.
But anybody who wants to become a speaker, go ahead and put any speaker request, because if I send you an
invite, you can't necessarily see it. But the market, of course, is bleeding. If you look at
the TradFi market, which is, of course, considerably larger than us. The S&P 500 has lost 5.83 trillion.
That's right. Not billion, trillion. Really, you know, they say that humans cannot conceptualize
a number that high. I mean, I know we can in an abstract sense, but you cannot, our imaginations are unable to imagine a trillion
of anything. And likewise, we've had a decline of more than 2% in 24 hours, according to an article
on Action Forex right now, losing 2.46 trillion from crypto market capitalization as well.
crypto market capitalization as well. So that's really interesting to know. Of course, you know,
Binance put out some research to say it's going to be fine. We are navigating turbulent
macroeconomic landscapes as heightened global tensions begin to trigger a risk-off shift
across asset classes. Total crypto market capitalization has plummeted by 25.9%, highlighting the sector's
sensitivity to geopolitical and policy-driven disruptions in Western economic times. Yeah,
that's a great way to summarize how everyone's feeling just right now.
Brickin, let's go ahead and get them back up as a speaker again. Everyone, thank you so much
for joining us. What we're going to be talking about is frankly one of the gems of the whole
crypto space. We're going to be talking about RWAs or real world assets on chain. I think that RWAs
are going to take the spot that I was expecting to go to meme coins and that there's a very, you know,
I feel, you know, this is what my whole point is. There's a very good reason for that is the fact
that I think people are returning to fundamentals and that they're looking for something that has
more intrinsic value. They're feeling, you know, just a little bit less speculative than before.
So let's go ahead over to Agridex and start saying hi to our speakers.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.
Let me just say, by the way, that thanks to Ye Network for hosting this today.
Ye Network is a leading investing syndicate, early investors and contributors to many great
projects, including on Binance, already listed on Binance,
including Movement Labs, Bulmaps, and Chain GPT. You can check them out at yay.network.
Now let's go ahead over to Agridex. Agridex. So obviously AI and RWAs are kind of competing for the lead narrative in 2025.
are kind of competing for the lead narrative in 2025. Maybe Bitcoin competes, of course, too.
But, you know, that's kind of where it seems to be at from my humble point of view as just a news
guy. What do you think? And what is driving this narrative this year? Go ahead, Agridex.
So lovely to meet you. My name is Omar. I'm heading up BD over at Agridex. So I think the point that you're saying about AI and RWAs is completely right.
We've heard so much about how it's going to be the year of RWAs for,
I'd say for the last couple of years, people have been aware of it.
Technology and regulations have slowly started to catch up.
It does seem like there's a lot of momentum with how much you hear everywhere.
But it does seem like there's a lot of momentum with how much you hear everywhere.
My controversial opinion is I think it's going to be less so the case with AI.
And part of the reason why is I think there's incredible advancements in the field of AI.
But I feel that AI crypto is still a tad behind what's happening in the general macro space right and that's not to
say that it won't catch up right now but i feel like some of the projects and stuff that are
coming out have already been lapped in the general space in the last six months and so it's about
keeping up to date with it but i feel it'll be very much the same as the rwa space in that
much the same as the RWA space in that. It's very hard to compete with the Web2 and IRL
AI world. The US government, other governments around the world have invested billions of
dollars in advance of the technology. I mean, it isn't the point of our show today. But I think
what you're trying to allude to is what can Web3 plus crypto really add that the Web3 plus AI really add AI overall that
isn't already being done? Yes. And I think it's going to come from really interesting use cases
like the guys over at Pond and what they're doing with their decentralized model system
that's very focused on a crypto native experience. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's good
to have you on. Thank you, Agridex. Love your project. Great to have you on. Let's go over
to Kay Crusher from Regnamorum. Am I saying that correctly? Come on and correct me, Kay Crusher.
Yeah, yeah. Regnamorum or or rack is rack is usually what we go right
rac gotcha so um what you know agridex was just alluding to we've been waiting for the past couple
of years for rwa's to be a big deal and that's definitely true in fact um you know back at first
you know i was working with like seven eight eight years ago, gold-backed stable coins.
People are trying to get this tether between real-world assets.
And then, of course, stable tokens and STOs, but they were just not exciting enough.
It seems like the narrative is right this year.
What do you think makes people receptive to RWAs?
What makes it the time for RWAs?
Yeah, I think what makes it the time for RWAs
is definitely just the general volatility
that we experience in the DeFi space specifically.
We're constantly getting crushed by liquidation cascades.
So there's definitely a need for stability and to bring RWAs on chain.
We have our own kind of controversial opinion over at RAC as well.
And that's kind of, we feel that people or what people have been building is for what they wish the market was
and not what it is.
And what I mean by that is you just mentioned STOs.
It takes more than just tokenizing something and bringing it on chain.
You need to drive utility behind it.
And if you look at where all, like a lot of the liquidity is, it's in DeFi.
So if you don't create a product that's composable
and accessible with the current systems that we interact with on a daily basis,
you're not going to be able to drive adoption. So I think that's what a lot of protocols
and a lot of projects and institutions are doing is kind of permissioned assets with
permissionless pools. Right.
Absolutely.
What do you think, Brickin?
You know, first of all, is this the year for RWAs?
You think bigger than AI?
And what makes it our time?
You with us, Brickin?
All right.
Let's go ahead over to Simplicity Group.
Simplicity Group, why don't you come on and tell us what you think.
Is this the year of RWAs in Web3?
And are people just turning to the fundamentals again?
Because, of course, many use cases of RWAs are just TradFi kind of wrapped in a crypto or a tokenized fashion what do you think yeah so the first thing i would say is um i think when it comes specifically to utility tokens and rwas
i think actually um right kind of hit nails on the coffin with their um with their sort of beliefs i
think most people are getting it wrong when it comes to utility tokens. I think a lot of RWA tokens actually don't need utility tokens. It doesn't mean they
can't have one, it just means there's not an actual need. The main thing when it comes
to tokenizing RWAs is actually putting the assets themselves on chain. And I think when
you look at the DeFi space, that's definitely a good way to actually integrate RWA assets whereby you can actually have a useful utility token. We can look at, for
example, Pendle or Neusual and how they use US bonds to sort of generate yield and how
they, in essence, the utility tokens live off of the stablecoin in the case of Neusual,
live off of the bonds that are purchased and then the yield generated by them
is used in a creative manner.
I do think, however, this is the year for RWAs
and not necessarily just this year,
but I do think we're going to see more RWA impact
because I think in crypto,
we're moving away from pure speculation
and even exchanges, VCs,
I'm seeing a lot more questions
about actual Web2 business models.
How are you generating revenue?
And the RWA space is a great way to actually generate that revenue.
And you can either siphon that value back into the token or you can use it to grow the business, whether that be via marketing or expanded products.
You know, are we really adding any liquidity, though, man? Or are we just kind of moving liquidity around?
It seems like when we tokenize assets that are directly out of the TradFi world,
we're just kind of moving it over to Web3, right?
We're not really necessarily putting, creating anything new,
but with this tokenization process, are we?
No, we're not necessarily creating anything new new and I don't think we need to there's not necessarily a
need to reinvent the wheel it's just a easier system for your average Joe to
get involved the most basic example and again it's not one I necessarily think
is a great example but it's the most understandable understandable rationalizing property or different assets.
But I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
I don't think there's a need to actually try and create new liquidity necessarily or to try and create new demand it's just about facilitating
the existing demand in a better fashion well well i mean so far i guess
no need to create new liquidity uh we'll see how it's going to go through this year
see how it's going to go through this year. Bandeep, what seems to be holding us back? First
of all, Trump repealed a number of stop gap measures that Biden had put in place to try in
and protect consumers on Web3, are we running into,
and at the same time,
we all love his enthusiasm
for the crypto world.
But so far we've had what?
A couple, we've had an executive statement.
Then we had a couple of memos
come out after that
that were largely about AI
that basically say we're like,
this is not the same
as giving us a regulatory framework.
So what are we struggling more from in terms of uptake and acceptance of RWAs?
Is it a matter of, you know, a regulatory threat or is it a matter of getting people's attention?
Maybe people just want to go back to gambling with animal based coins.
What do you think, Bandeep?
Hey, can you hear me?
Yes. Great, thanks for that.
Look, I think there's a few lessons
in history, right?
We can look at the crypto world
and its entirety of market capital,
let's say $3 trillion, right?
Even though it's less now, but let's take that as an assumption.
We can look at the
RWAs that are
tokenized RWAs on chain.
So call it like 10 billion, if you may.
It's probably less than that.
But just assume that's a number and it's doubled in the past year.
You compare that to traditional finance and it is still like a dot.
It's not even a dwarf.
It's a dot.
It's minuscule.
So if we are going to make crypto go mainstream, it has to relate to everyday people.
And the way people relate to it is by finding a means for them to access products and services they could not do before.
That is basically only possible because of on-chain access.
only possible because of on-chain access.
If you wanted to buy T-bills sitting in the Philippines,
you couldn't do that necessarily before for $100 in nominations.
Now you can.
To me, and for those who have been around the block a few times with this one,
the same thing happened with the internet.
There was all this talk about this was online only.
It's going to eat away the business from bricks and mortar companies.
And then it came full circle, right?
AOL bought Time Warner and so on and so forth.
So you have this hybrid model emergence.
You have a thesis and, you know, in Hegelian terms,
a thesis and antithesis, and then you have a synthesis.
This is the synthesis, right?
You will find, you can't just exist in sort of abstract terms.
It's like the metaverse.
It was all great theoretically,
but people have to be able to relate to it.
And to me, like the tokenization of RWAs is chapter one.
It's like creating a class of shares for a company.
That's great.
You've now created small ownership bite-sized.
Whether it's a share or a token, you're basically fractionalizing that ownership.
But unless you get people to buy them, to trade them, to sell them, to effectively give liquidity on that, it doesn't matter.
You know, jay shit., like it doesn't really matter.
You've really got to get liquidity.
You've really got to get use case adoption.
And to me, that's the really the challenge.
You can tokenize whatever you want, but unless people are buying and selling and trading it, it doesn't really matter.
Now, how that's driven is where you're asking, which is a really good question, right? So in some ways, the adoption was held back by, let's say, more conservative,
I mean, politically, like, you know, not getting into debates here, conservative regimes. And
that's obviously changed in the US and other jurisdictions are likely to follow. So there's
one part of it, which is removing obstacles.
Then the second part of it is actually encouraging and propagating it,
just the way it happened with e-commerce when they kept tax rates lower
and the U.S. E-commerce Act allowed for lots of e-commerce companies
to proliferate, such as Amazon,
and no wonder they're the dominant companies today in the WIP2 world.
What's going to happen to make that possible?
One of the missing links to me is sort of missing what's yet fairly obvious.
There are two markets that are undisputed when it comes to future growth.
One is the RWA market or tokenization of RWAs, if you may.
And the other one is the stablecoin market.
And they're intrinsically linked, right?
Because if you're going to price tokens from the real world to offer on-chain, they have
to be priced in a stable currency.
You can't price them in anything but that, because otherwise you don't get any sort of
mechanism for projections of growth or purchase or sales.
So you have to do it in a stable currency.
And the second thing, of course, is that stable coins are arguably one of the killer apps on the blockchain
and on the on-chain world, like $27 trillion worth last year.
Those are numbers you can't scoff at.
That's more than Visa and MasterCard combined.
So to me, there's an intrinsic link between the two.
So one of the pieces we're exploring
is can we use the tokenized rwas as collateral for a single coins is that is that is that a
better pool than just using fiat and especially with yield bearing you get the upside of both
utility and and the yield that's one use case which is we've been trying that for a while that
that has been floating around for a while i'm'm going to take the Swede Bundy and go back over to Brickin because I want to get to Hedy too.
And then Guy, let me go over to Brickin.
So Brickin, you know, what am I complaining about?
He showed up at a cafe and it only took two other people to help him purchase some drinks with Bitcoin.
So that was very encouraging for advertising our whole UX to a mainstream audience.
And then he gave us an executive order.
Aren't we good?
What do we need in the regulatory world?
Hi, Justin.
Thank you for having me and Manuel Cardoso.
I'm not one of the founders of Brickin, although I am close to the founding team. I work mostly in the branding and market analysis one of the founders of brick and although i am close to the founding team i work
mostly in the branding and marketing analysis side of the business um so yeah about the legal
side of things we do have experts in the team that can probably address that better than myself
uh really like what bond deep just shared i think think completely agree with everything he was saying there.
Yeah. If you have another question for me that is maybe not so legally related, I'll jump into that.
It's not really legally related. What kind of involvement do we need to have to know whether
regulatory clarity would be better for us or not? Like, is that what's holding us back?
Or is it a matter of education and users understanding
the value between between rwas no well i think um kind of like what von deep was saying in that
regards i mean i think crypto has been a lot of speculation over the last years of course
um i've been around since i don't know bitcoin before xrp came around and i think as as more
traditional finance comes into into the market we're gonna see you know people actually value
the fact that you know you can make maybe 20 on an investment rather than looking for 10 20x's right um i think a little more sense in that in in that way is is necessary for the space to
grow and we're gonna see a lot more value you know people looking for a real utility rather than
yeah complete speculation just a lot of marketing behind things we're're going to see that that's why RWA is going to be pushing
forward. It has more to do with bringing true value from the real world on chain, right?
But agree completely with the fact that we do need liquidity. We do need the assets to be
actually traded. Otherwise, there's no point right you can tokenize as much
as you want but if uh there's no real adoption then there's no real point to it um yeah but i do
yeah yeah go ahead no no no tell me i'm just gonna take it i'm gonna keep moving over and go over to
hedy right now that will we'll keep the questions circulating.
Hedy, what do we think over here? You know, if this, if RWAs are really, one thing that RWA projects are very fond of doing is throwing around big market potential numbers. If RWA is the next
trillion dollar market, where are the killer apps? Where is our Uniswap or OpenSea moment where we see, you know, kind of the dominant platform,
the dominant home for the RWA narrative?
What do you think it is, man?
So this is Heidi.
I'm from IOST, co-founder of, yeah, IOST, and I'm pretty much leading the space of our RWA product indeed.
I think overall discussion here, it's really exciting because a little bit background by
myself, so I can explain things better. I worked at Wall Street for over five years,
a hedge fund, investing into pretty much traditional asset classes like equity futures in the US.
And then in the crypto space, I also do trading myself on the side. And then until I founded my
own company, and that's where it's really fascinating because the efficiency and the
liquidity of crypto, it's much, much more having larger potential than traditional finance
with my own vision, and
obviously it's been verified or
validated in reality every day.
So back to your question,
I think Kuler app were
the most user-adopted cases.
It's still like, I think,
like, for example, I would
rather really recommend
RWA infrastructures and also obviously exchanges.
Because why?
Because I think it's mirrored or benchmarked with our current world, as you can see, like
who's issuing RWA, right?
Like those are honestly like institution asset managers.
Like in the US, everyone kind of knows Fidelity, Wealth Management.
They issue those fundamental or the underlying asset classes.
And now for our approach, honestly, and so many other like, you know, bigger players in the RWS space in crypto as well.
We had to work with those like asset managers as like my oral meeting these days are pretty much talking to institutions.
They're pretty much talking to institutions.
So those are like, let's say the OG and Wall Street.
And then I think what we're trying to do here is, A, we work with them, obviously, to help the adoption for our crypto world, DeFi world.
But longer term, I think as an infrastructure, you're mirroring to those asset managers.
You're providing better flexibility, due diligence, deal flows, valuation models to your users, which are crypto users.
valuation models to your users, which are crypto users, or overall, you know, every user that are
accredited to purchase or adopt, use such RWAs to manage their asset. Yeah, so A, it's infra,
and B, I think it's definitely exchanges, because like modern world, where do you like exchange,
either you do OTC, right, or you go on stock market, or you go on crypto,
you have those exchanges. So similarly, I think RWA exchanges, either there will be new disruptive
players that are providing such like facility of trading, market making, etc. Or, you know,
the old, like, I would say, like, either, you know, traditional exchanges like Nasdaq, or every,
like, sovereign exchanges, or, you you know the new like crypto exchanges they were
starting to expand their trading facilities infrastructure to facilitate such trading spaces
more like customized for rwas as well yeah right right okay well let me go over to stephan rust
stephan rust of trueflation great to have you on stefan i think it's been like a year since we've
talked so it's it's good to speak with you how are you man yeah dude thanks justin so good to be back
and um yeah i've been been busy and the only platform you gotta go to is trueflation.com
and the truth network if trueflation is the data, the data is the new oil, the refinery for that data is truth.network. That is where you go. There is no more truth and no more RWA price feeds, information and data sets than on the truth network. Okay, okay. network okay okay million data points um i'm selling now but yeah well but but putting putting
aside that right now we know that uh for instance open sea and the eminence of open sea the rise of
open sea is like kind of as a an inexorable part in x yeah an extraable part of the whole NFT phenomenon. Solana at this point is synonymous with the
meme coin craze that was going on in 2024. Where is that touchpoint or that killer app in 2025?
app in 2025, who, you know, if this is the next trillion dollar market, you know, do we see any
kind of eminent mover out there who's going to, you know, that's going to become the home for RWAs?
And are we better off with one than without one? So I think RWAs are,
yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, it's so broad, right?
What is RWA?
It covers such a broad spectrum.
And what we've tried to do on the Truth Network is make available all of the data available
from consumer goods to real world assets to to commodities, to weather data, so that anybody can build
using a decentralized database in SQL. And you've got all these scripts to build on. Why? Because
we actually think RWA is going to take off in synthetic form. And you're already seeing that
where real estate is not traded. You know, I'm tokenizing physical real estate.
I'm trading the price of real estate in New York, Manhattan, Brooklyn, all the way through Palm Springs, Houston, Santa Fe.
And I can build synthetic trading associated with those assets, which is real estate. And you see that in land share,
you've got parcel. So you've got a number of different exchanges where all of a sudden,
that is immediately tradable and it meets the speculative nature of anybody on the blockchains.
Right. All right.
Perfect.
Let me let me go over.
It's great to have you on, Stefan.
Let me go over to to Guy.
Guy, you know, where is that right now?
Are you are looking at more from a VC point of view?
Where's the liquidity?
You know, we have taken some gnarly losses, 5.83 trillion in the traditional market in the S&P 500 and $2.46 trillion in lost capitalization in crypto.
Where is it going?
And is RWA going to be kind of one of our savior narratives in 2025?
What do you think?
Hey, Justin.
Hey.
So about, in general, this market correction, I think it's absolutely normal.
You know, every cycle there are such corrections up to 40%.
So I don't think it's any different you know there are of course
some speculation some fear in the markets trade wars and so on but honestly i think it's just
exactly like the previous cycles i don't see much differences there is just way more adoption much more liquidity institutions so overall i see the
future being quite bright as for our rwa i also think it's gaining momentum especially during
this deep i think many of the rwa projects were not so affected like other projects.
I also saw some research recently that shows that RWA projects were the least affected ones, alongside, I believe, Deepin as well.
So I think it's just a statement and proof that RW is a really hot narrative,
that people are interested,
and that obviously the good ones are going to be very successful. And I can say that I've been following several,
specifically I believe it's Mantra.
They've been doing really great infrastructure for
RWA. And as you know, every day new projects, trying to build something with this narrative.
So yeah, I think it's going to be a pretty hot narrative this year.
All right, that sounds good to me. But you know, let's go over to, let's see, I guess we'll go back to
Agrodex. Where do we see the most action happening? Guy's saying, I'm making too much of a big deal
over the 2% shift in the market yesterday. This is just a correction. Okay, that's entirely possible. Sure. But you can see how people are looking at RWAs right now, even though the centralization of it all kind of drives everybody sort of crazy.
I don't think that the meme pump, the meme super cycle that we did kind of have is would have been as strong without, you know, Solana as the central hub.
I don't think that NFT narrative would have been as strong without OpenSea.
Do we see any chains or any apps stepping forward
into that kind of leadership position as the home of RWA's Agrodex?
Yeah, go ahead.
So I think that's an interesting question obviously we're built on
solana and we're seeing a huge uptake in projects starting to build on solana specifically in the rwa
space it's been despite how big uh solana's grown it's actually the eighth biggest chain for rwa
projects itself but that number is changing with a lot of new people coming into it.
And, you know, the thing that you were saying about like the meme coin pumps,
it's almost created a culture where people do want something a bit more tangible.
So the shilly answer is Solana itself.
But then looking outside of that, I think, you know,
just as someone who does enjoy the space,
I think what's being done on stellar
in particular i really like the work there and the teams that are building on there there's also
plume network we can't forget them they're doing some fantastic stuff and i think they've got the
right idea of trying to capture the consumers as much as we say that rwa yields are like you know they're stable they're less
affected by the market shocks compared to elsewhere but it's a bit like how tiktok affected
the attention spans of people i think people have been used to some of the incredible yields
that come from crypto and so some of the stuff in the rWA space isn't exciting people as much and so the work
that people like plume are doing in order to try and integrate RWA into DeFi itself for the people
who do want those more ambitious yields so to speak I think they're really under they've got
a much better understanding and pulse of what users want but that's just a personal you know
I agree with you AgriDex but let's go back over to Brickin.
I'd like to hear from you guys a little bit more.
You know, Brickin, logic would suggest that as we fact,
okay, we're going to tokenize ownership now at this point.
We've got on-chain ownership.
At some point, the market will settle enough that they will have built in all the risks they need to build in from it being blockchain.
Hopefully, there won't be as much risk at that point as well.
the yields just going to even out because you know owning digital uh gold or digital uh treasury bonds
is is going to be the same as owning just the actual thing what do you think bricken
yeah that's a really interesting question i mean i would say i i mean personally i
it'll be speculating to say this but um we haven't really discovered all the possible use cases
that RWA can potentially open up.
We're seeing every week we can read news about new use cases.
We see it in also clients that come to us.
And so until we discover all the potential use cases there there might be a
new use case that could be the next big thing right so in that sense it could be years you know
until we actually stabilize uh let's say in the sense that you're putting it there right um but
then going back to i can't remember remember who was the one making this comment,
but I, there's, I think there's a difference now between just speculating
on price and on real world assets versus ownership.
I think those are two different, you know, like conversations when it comes,
when it comes to like synthetics and actually having ownership, right?
There are two
different things uh us at brick and we primarily just focus on on ownership there's a lot of legal
things that go and go back in the background a lot of let's say traditional uh things that have to
happen right uh so it's not it's not as simple as that i mean we have the expertise that's why i say we're
positioned where we are right now and it has because uh we we have that expertise behind us
um so it's it's not as simple as that uh um as some people make it look like like just launching
an rwa and just straight in it but from my personal point of view uh we do have to see a
future where there's interoperability uh it's very necessary i mean just imagine
you tokenize a project on x blockchain that future blockchain for some reason uh dies off
or forks right takes a fork and then you have duplicated assets on two chains or, right?
So somehow, I don't know what, personally, I don't know what that next OpenSea, as you
say, we work closely with projects like Thena, for example, they're on BSGC chain.
We have partnerships with like uniswap but uh who like what that
central point is going to be that open c that the solana of the meme coins but for rwas honestly i
i can't answer that that's why our focus is more on actually uh having the platform to tokenize
your asset uh pretty much wherever you want, whatever blockchain you want.
But yeah, it has, it has to be somewhere or a solution that would allow interoperability.
And that's why we're excited about things that for example, Chainlink are doing with CCIP.
Um, and yeah, uh, looking forward to that.
I mean, we still have a lot to explore in in what rwa use cases can
actually bring as like new assets uh new uh potential use cases right so that's that's my
you mentioned the pitfalls of uh what if people are you know double claiming like the same asset, for example.
This goes back to my regulatory question.
How do we make sure that those assets exist at all?
I remember with some of the earliest I was doing a gold-backed stablecoin like eight, nine years ago or something like that,
and they were going through serious external auditing processes
in order to show that this gold actually existed in the vault, yada, yada. What regulatory body
is able to handle that right now? Because it doesn't seem to me like we have a central thing
in place. How do retail consumers, and for that matter, institutional investors,
consumers, and for that matter, institutional investors, you know, trust, what are we trusting
in? How is this verified? Yeah, I mean, again, a regulatory question, which probably our CEO,
Edwin, could handle better than myself, but no, no, no, but essentially, I would just say,
like, essentially, you do need, you do need, uh, that in a way that
tried fi traditional finance, uh, side of things with my, might be a little bit boring,
but it is necessary to have regulation in place.
It is necessary to, uh, let's say cover those aspects.
If it's KYC, uh, you know, like identifying who are the investors, all of that.
So there is a balance
in there right right okay let me go over to kate crusher you actually have a gold backed stable
coin you know what uh external auditing are are you offering where are you you know what external
bodies are validating uh the actual assets that are backing uh that are backing your play here?
And what assurances are you offering your audience?
What do you think needs to be there from a regulatory perspective?
What would make your life a lot easier?
Go ahead, K. Crusher.
Yeah, yeah, a couple things I just want to touch on.
I mean, I think one big thing, in my opinion,
my very humble opinion that's being overlooked overlooked is RWAs have been here for a long time.
I mean, the wolves in sheep clothing here are Circle and Tether, right?
Tether is literally an RWA.
They're outperforming companies like Coca-Cola and a lot of DeFi wouldn't exist without stablecoins.
They unlock a lot of on-chain liquidity and DeFi lending.
So, I mean, our RWAs aren't something totally new. I think there needs to be a culture shift within crypto, meaning that people view it as a casino and how they're going to turn a thousand into a million dollars, whereas the sophisticated financial products are going to be probably the last to be appreciated in this space by the retail consumer.
by the retail consumer. And that's where the demand in my mind for RWAs is coming in now,
is you have a lot more institutional capital than onboarding assets. So there's a need to
have diversification on chain. And when it comes to unlocking new liquidity sources, which leads
into the gold back stable that we're launching, there are ways of unlocking new liquidity sources which leads into the gold back stable that we're launching um there there
are ways of unlocking new liquidity so so to answer your question about the gold back stable what
we're doing is uh taking gold reserves that are in ground of a mine that's in pre-production uh the
reserves are verified through what's called a 43-101, which is basically kind of like a securities report that verifies that the gold is in ground.
The gold gets a discount to spot applied to it.
And in terms of assurances in auditing, it goes through an Ernest and Young audit. And there
will be monthly Bureau Veritas audits. And that goes through Chainlink proof of reserves
to basically provide attestation to the assets. So what you got going on there is you have
a gold mine that is creating liquidity that would otherwise not be there
they can access uh cheap financing uh globally precious metals uh precious metals uh financing
has dried up uh due to people funding rare earth metals so you're kind of um pumping defy with
liquidity but you're also solving a real world problem there.
So that's kind of my, once again, humble opinion on a few points that were brought up during this. Would a clear regulatory structure take some of the burden off of you to,
you know, prove to your audience vigorously that the assets actually exist, you know, that the gold exists?
curiously that the assets actually exists you know that the gold exists yeah I think I think
there could be general guidelines but I I feel that uh standardization could be a little bit
difficult depending on the specific real world asset being utilized uh so so that's my take on
it there needs to be guidelines but but, but pure standardization, in my opinion,
may, may be difficult because there's so many ways to create and structure a stable coin.
Right. Let me go over to, back to Stephan. Stephan, we've had a lot of conversations,
you know, except for the past six months. So we haven't been on as much much but we've had a lot of conversations about this uh i know that you're a big fan of highly involved uh regulators so uh you know how do you think that this is best
handled and do you miss gary do you miss gary i missed him a lot i'm sure my friend no uh
my friend no uh um no i think hands off let us innovate um make sure we don't steal anybody's
money we don't rug um but i think stay hands off let us innovate let us create new markets
um i think that's the route uh regulators should allow us but you've you probably you've probably
noticed there have been you know there is the occasional rug pull in the crypto space.
How do we make our investors feel at ease so that the people outside our space particularly, you know, trust us?
Yeah, regulators aren't going to help with trusting, right? We've had so many use cases where the regulators had actually, you know, everybody's used regulator, the regulatory framework to actually create
even bigger rugs to the, you know, compared to what we've seen in crypto. I think, you know,
one thing for crypto, at least people that have been around have created trust. We trust Tether,
we trust Circle. They've been around. They are the de facto RWA assets in the crypto landscape.
We trust Ethereum, all of these brands.
We trust Solana, we trust Agritex, Agritex, Bricken.
We all know who the players are at the table, Hedy.
You know, we're here, we're open, we're transparent, and we're accountable. So you have to not just go for the quickest,
ape in to all of these new fads
and feel you're missing out
and just out of FOMO,
jump in for the next big opportunity.
I think, you know, find the gems,
invest maybe in indexes,
crypto indexes that allow you
to get a spread the risk across a category you might be interested in and then learn about who the underlyings are.
There are no rugs associated with that.
We're all builders in this space.
And I always go and say, talk to builders.
They know what is real and what isn't.
And that way you can learn about the opportunities better and not get rugged.
Right.
Well, you know, absolutely doing your own research.
Sorry, Justin.
in. But just look, Scott Besson was out there today. And what's he saying? He's saying,
But just look, Scott Besson was out there today.
And what's he saying?
you know, the US government is looking at regulatory impediments to stablecoin blockchain
and new payment systems. So they're going to try and rip those out and allow innovation to rip on
the blockchain, use in stablecoin areas, payment systems so i think very different to gary
right well yeah nobody has the gary gensler magic or ever will um but here my reminder to everyone
go ahead and follow the good people we have in the panel today i very much appreciate a lot of
great projects coming in here they're prominent in the RWA space, sharing their knowledge and their experiences.
Thank you to Ye Network, of course.
Ye is a syndicate of founders, developers, angels, KOLs that provide not only capital,
but guidance, connections, and hands-on support.
So check them out.
Let's go ahead over to back to simplicity group. Simplicity, what assets are, what new
markets are we opening up and what assets just really kind of resist tokenization, even though
maybe we would like to get that liquidity on chain? What do you think of that simplicity?
What do you think of that simplicity?
Honestly, I don't think there's really any asset that can't go on chain in the future.
I think the main thing is if they do go on chain, they might be on private blockchains
or they might not necessarily be publicly available.
But we are seeing institutions using blockchain.
Canton Networks are very popular chain that's used by a lot of c5 institutions but
isn't known by retail or by most people in the space so i think when it comes to stuff going on
chain really anything can and when it comes to what's going to be the big winners which is a
topic you sort of touched on earlier i just want to quickly say i think um someone already mentioned
i forgot but i think the big winner actually with the RWA growth
is not necessarily going to be RWA infrastructure,
but more so Oracles.
Ultimately, for assets to be able to go on chain,
you need Oracles, you need that data to be pushed on chain,
and they're going to be the real big winners.
I don't necessarily think that's going to be Chainlink.
I know Chainlink's doing a great job at the minute but there are other
oracles in production that are coming out that are more sort of specialized and focused
with chain link for example they don't offer the ability to trade
um stocks on chain because they can't track stock splits at the minute um right right yeah
go ahead uh so what was the second part of your question i know i didn't
exactly answer all of your questions you know i'm wondering well you answered what what assets are
resistant to uh tokenization but you know what new markets are really being opened up what what
markets are going to be uh you know most relevant in this time of financial hardship? Are people going to do the classic thing and go for Bitcoin and gold because they're battening down the hatches?
What do you expect to be hot this year?
It depends who we're talking about.
If you're talking about institutions and people who have, I don't want to say a brain, but a bit more financial literacy,
it will be assets like Bitcoin, gold, more stable assets.
If you're talking about regular folk, I think it's going to be more again meme coins it's going to be the casino um for example you look at
lottery ticket purchases lottery ticket purchases skyrocketed in the last three years across both
the us china and i'm sure in europe as well when people don't have money when they're desperate
they're hoping for that thousand x that hundred x that get rich quick scheme and the rwa space
doesn't really offer that it's not about that it's about again it's for more people it's for
people with financial literacy people who want stable growth who want to actually um compound
wealth uh so yeah it depends on who you're talking about in terms of what audience but
those would be my two answers right right that that's a great point i i don't
know it's kind of it's kind of depressing though in a lot of ways i think that people are going
for the you know the literal lottery tickets i have kind of a more nuanced opinion on meme
tokens themselves but uh you know going for literal lottery tickets because i think that they
don't feel a whole lot of power anywhere else.
And they kind of figure, well, a remote chance of being able to improve my lot in life is still better than having no action that I can take, which kind of sucks.
It makes me sort of uncomfortable for them.
Going over to Bundeep, what do you think is, what's a fascinating use case right now?
Who's actually innovating around this?
You know, obviously the first kind of gimme in RWAs is to bring, we've got like traditional
financial instruments on the chain.
People have done precious metal and real estates.
That's been pretty done.
You know, what is coming on that that's interesting
to you that maybe represents a new opportunity like what's kind of you know fun right now
i'm going to answer your question justin and also kind of dovetail it back to a point you
made earlier this is what's going to foster adoption and all right you know what where
this regulation lies on this whole front so there's been a lot of talk a couple years ago
there was a lot of talk about tokenizing bank deposits.
And if you remember those deposit tokens
and contrasting them with stable points,
there is a nuanced play here
where if the new administration,
the US and other regulators
that follow them across the world,
make RWAs an acceptable,
investable asset class, just the way we've
seen Bitcoin being legitimized with the ETFs last year in the US and therefore followed
on by ETH and the other ones that are following suit.
A great play would be, you have a stock portfolio, you have a crypto portfolio in your banking
crypto portfolio in your banking app, well, why not have your RWA portfolio?
app, well, why not have your RWA portfolio?
If you can find a way for mass adoption to the banking system, which is not going to
resist it, but actually find this to be a new source of revenue, then the types of products
that will come on chain will just proliferate, right?
Whether it's private credit or more metals and commodities or real estate or synthetics, as somebody pointed
out earlier.
And then the whole OpenSea moment or the exchange that somebody brought up earlier about creating
liquidity around, this becomes a lot more possible, right?
Then you're not creating, you've got now the Star Alliance and One World where you can
exchange your different RWAs across one central FX, if you may, conversion on those RWAs.
So to me, it's really about getting legitimization via the financial institutions, including
banks and allowing for that portfolio management to extend into tokenized RWAs.
And then the various other parts of it, whether it's the infrastructure side, whether it's
Plume or Sandlink or other ones people mentioned, Mantra, they all become part of that ecosystem.
But the trick is to get institutional adoption
to the existing institutions such as bank.
That's a really cool way for getting this further
and that hopefully comes true in the US.
Right. What do you think, Hedy?
Where is there an opportunity or something cool
that's happening right now?
I know that receivables is something that people have been poking around with.
And again, that has kind of a dark undertone for me because you're essentially purchasing debt.
I think that might have a chance of doing well during this time of global economic turbulence.
What do you think, Hedy?
What's a cool use case that's
going on right now uh sorry the question is more like asking for the like rwa opportunity right
yeah yeah okay what do you bring on chain that's cool yeah yeah so i think really uh first of all
i would always want to give my uh like overall framework of thinking and then you know everyone
can take their own
direction i think when it comes to asset right there's always three factors to consider liquidity
return and risk like these three framework you apply to everything and then think about what
you want and then you will get the answer so honestly i give a neutral answer that i think
uh over our view like as iost and what we're building in RWA,
we want to provide more like a stable or higher liquidity and medium risk assets. So with that,
I would say more like we're really exploring, obviously, like some somewhat exotic sovereign
bonds, like some like developing countries sovereigns bond, which are also like not every
day you can see
and usually available to institutions, investors.
And then we bring that with more like a logical way
and our own tokenization engine
and we create an engine to boost the fund
with DeFi extra, et cetera.
But overall, like you mentioned,
I think always there are spaces with exotic assets,
such as what we talk about, like
some of the exotic loans. It kind of ranges from like airplane loans, we're talking to some of the
players in the space. And you know what you mentioned, like some other corporate loans
were dApps. Those could be very interesting, but I will always give my kind of warming in this would be like, given the tariff and you know the volatility in the space, you never know what those loans are hitting underlying with the cash flow and, you know, their deal flow again.
And I would say like I've seen so many institutions and, you know, more like I was a professional players in the space.
They really spend a long time to do due diligence and they have to be very patient in the space.
So that means overall, I'm trying to say that the liquidity could be very bad.
So if you're really betting on those, you have to be prepared with emotional or also your own like the fun, funny to say, but like your own balance sheet.
Are you OK to expose to such like a longer term,
low liquidity and high risk? But maybe if you survive at the end, yes, the return and the
yield could be very attracting. So honestly, in a summary, and I think every asset classes,
there has to be some of the really good high return ones and the low ones. But do like do
our like either us were helping our users with any
other you know rw builders have a professional sense in those specific asset classes um and then
also what kind of the holders you're attracting to or you're providing to the user it's a balance
so there's always many opportunities when it comes to assets in financial worlds or even RWAs as we're in the crypto world.
But yeah, think about what you need and what you want.
Justin, can I add to that?
Yeah, go ahead.
I think one of the big industries that could be a new one to go after is insurance.
Because it's digitally native.
There's no risk about is there gold backing it or not or is it something you have to verify through provenance.
It is ultimately all about math and actual analysis.
And it's a trillion, multi-trillion dollar industry worldwide
that has yet to be, you know, hit by tokenization.
People know it's one of the most attractive asset classes,
like in the top, it's like the top right quartile
or even less.
In terms of financial assets that people want to go after,
it's well-regulated, well-capitalized, annuity stream-based industry.
But they're so far away from even tech, never mind crypto,
that it's a big reach for them to come out.
If the crypto industry reaches out to them and finds a way for tokenizing
insurance risk.
And to your point about receivables, insurance financing, that's a huge market graph that's very verifiable and could really change things and democratize things.
Yeah, definitely.
Brickin, what do you think?
Where's the opportunity?
opportunity what what have uh what should we be exploring more what what do you think is an exciting
What should we be exploring more?
asset class to uh you know tokenized and turn into uh an rwa i mean very interesting question i mean
to be to be honest we we've been dealing with a lot of more or less the traditional
sort of things you will see if it's real estate for example we've tokenized some
entertainment related with broadway um but for example like i recently read about uranium being
tokenized on tesos blockchain right uh quite interesting uranium-backed uh asset now anybody can invest in uranium which uh so it's an example of something that
previously was let's say more restricted to certain circles or uh we're gonna see more of that sort of
asset class where maybe because of the amount of money you had available or the access it wasn't possible before so i also
read at some point um i can't remember exactly if it was in finland or or sweden uh there were
there were people that were uh bus drivers or or truck drivers they need they wanted to buy
truck drivers. They wanted to buy, I think it was gasoline, gasoline, diesel coupons,
but as an RWA, I can't remember exactly. But yeah, I think we're going to see, for example,
like Starbucks, maybe McDonald's, those type of franchises having their own RWA coupons,
franchises having their own RWA coupons,
all these point systems that we have, you know,
these apps actually be worth something in real life and be able to,
you know, cross, cross pollinate from each other. Like, okay,
I want to use my earned points from Starbucks and actually use that value on,
in McDonald's and actually be able
to swap those for another one but for that to happen you actually have to have some sort of
value peg it too right so i think that that'll be interesting once we have all these franchises
uh get into that game as well right you know stephan at what point do we reach full enclosure where like everything
is tokenized and we've just changed ownership to essentially platform dependent phenomenon
i mean everything tokenized is is 20 years from i don't know when that's gonna happen um
but i mean i think yeah like i said i, I think everything will be synthetic in its initial form.
There might be new financial markets in terms of funding.
There will be trade finance that will emerge in this category.
Those are going to be the first stages.
first stages. As the community and the world gets more and more comfortable with the new systems,
we build out and flesh out better UX and usability. This will grow much faster and the adoption will
kick in. But I do think we will still have traditional worlds and we will have
the digital worlds they will run in parallel i don't think one will eat the one will eat
a significant amount of market share from the other but i think both will still coexist
all right you know uh simplicity i'll go over to you since you haven't had a chance at this
question i guess uh has to be a one minute answer though i'm about to do uh my final announcement round and then we're going to go
to a speed round and close it up in the next 15 20 minutes or so go ahead uh not even an answer
yeah i just want to ask does anybody here actually want everything to be on chain because personally
that's a very dystopian world for me yeah i don't want that i'm taking a shot at the web3
world when i say that does anybody else want to be on chain yeah or or for that matter are we living
in a simulation maybe maybe uh maybe it already is all effectively on chain but if we have anybody
who's bullish on a completely on chain world then yeah let's hear it man i mean i'm curious i'm curious why that
would be a problem i mean i think it's we're just opening let's say access to more liquidity more
let's say participants i mean i'm from venezuela originally and imagine myself 10 years back when
a hundred dollars for me was a lot of money and i could
invest that hundred dollars somewhere right at that time the only thing i could find was bitcoin
um and it was quite difficult to actually get access to it i finally got an account in coinbase
and i was able to buy my first let's say bitcoin at that time and i feel that's what rwa is and this whole talk about a platform
and it's going to allow other people from yeah remote places to actually make these sort of
investments uh to build some sort of um how do you say a generational wealth if you want to call it
um and in a future where we have yeah there's a connection with ai you know i want to have a
financial assistant ai who's gonna take care of like okay you know i put this money on a monthly
basis in this in his wallet and he goes out and puts it somewhere oh he finds yield in a i don't
know in a company in argentina he puts in a percentage in there i don't know, in a company in Argentina, you put a percentage in there.
I don't even have to do anything.
I mean, so I do see the potential there, and I don't think that's going to be this year round, but in a couple of years from now, it might start being, you know,
make sense to actually apply something like that, that crossover between AI and RWA.
Yeah, you know, I totally understand what you're saying. And it's
a point that we make practically every show. I try to, you know, just to set a baseline,
remind us all that, you know, to, you know, blockchain does not begin and end with Silicon
Valley. That's not where all the innovations are happening. And that Valley has had a tendency in the past to make solutions for
Silicon Valley, not for the billions of unbanked and underbanked people in the world, whereas
Brickin was talking about maybe just don't have access to investment opportunities.
Certainly the earliest pitches of RWAs was about opening up markets and creating opportunities that didn't exist before.
Now, I'd like to go through everyone real quickly. We're just going to answer that. When I say speed
round, we're just doing like one minute answers. I'll start with Agridex. Oh, let me do my little
announcement first, by the way. Please go ahead and follow these people. Follow Yay Network. Thank
you to Yay Network for hosting the show.
If you're having problems with, if you're running a project and you're trying to scale, generate revenue, bring awareness to your project,
Yay might be able to help you.
You can go to yay.network and you can contact Guy, who's on the panel, or Mike, who's also in the audience.
So just let them know.
Drop them a DM and they'll try to help you out.
So going into the speed round question, Agridex, we've got one minute.
Who's doing this really well right now? What's an innovative use case that you like to see
other than your own? Somebody who you're like, wow, that's just good work. So there's no wrong
answer to this. Could be big, could be big could be small go for it oh very interesting um i i really like the work of
parcel and what they're doing i feel like they've got a large amount of traction they're tokenizing
something that absolutely makes sense to do so they're also taking a unique approach and
make sense to do so they're also taking a unique approach and doing it on real estate indexes as
opposed to the uh commodity itself i think they've got some fantastic traction they've got a crack
team and i think just the space that they're in they're absolutely set to continue to grow
absolutely that's great uh gi who are you following with interest right now
not financial advice of course just you know projects that you think that that's innovative.
Go ahead.
Yeah, actually, I mentioned already in your previous question that I've been following Mantra
because I think they're doing something really great for the RWA space
been really great for the RWA space when it comes to making the actual necessary checks
on each RWA so that investors can also feel more confidence when touching such instruments.
All in all, I think maybe some of the projects, they might not be targeting the right audience.
I still have some doubts if crypto people are really interested in such things.
As for us, as you know, we are an investment syndicate.
And within our syndicate, I would say that most investors are not so interested in this type of investments.
are not so interested in this type of investments.
They're looking for more like early stage angel investments,
more like startup investments.
And I think maybe RWAs are more suited for people
who are already in that space, who are already in the Web2 space.
But with the blockchain and crypto technology,
tokenization can make it much easier to actually onboard them so they can have much better experience.
And in general, I think it's much easier to manage everything on chain.
Right, definitely.
Well, and hopefully it's opening up new opportunities to people.
Crusher, what do you think?
Who is crushing it right now?
Whose project do you admire from afar in terms of what they're doing?
Yeah, I think there's tons of great projects out there.
There's tons of great RWA projects.
To me specifically, stablecoins are the next trillion dollar market
after Bitcoin and Ethereum. And to me,
Curve Finance is a hub for innovation and that whole ecosystem. It's a bloodline of DeFi,
in my opinion, and will be the hub for stable coins in the center of a lot of these trading pairs in the future.
Right, absolutely.
Let's go over to Brickin.
Same question.
What project appeals to you?
Who's being innovative in the RWA space right now?
That's a tricky one.
I mean, because I'd point to ourselves in that case but there's a lot of
yeah there's a lot of great competition if you want to call it if you want to call it in this way
don't want to name any specific projects but there's a lot of innovation going on that's what i
we love it uh you know blockchain space is uh every day there's there's always something new you learn
from your competitors you learn from your partners partnerships of course and so it's a very
unpredictable future um but then again um i think us at brick and we're innovating quite a lot um
I think us at Brickham, we're innovating quite a lot.
If you check out our project, our channels,
you'll see that every day there's big announcements happening
and a lot of work behind the scenes.
Our team grew more than 30% in the last few months.
And yeah, we're implementing AI all throughout our departments.
We do believe in that future
between ai and yeah a team of 30 can do the work of 100 and maybe 200 who knows so uh that would be
also like an interesting use case by the way like it's not only about established business businesses
but also you know there's uh maybe, smaller teams that are looking for funding and
they have a very interesting project use case and our WAs are going to allow, you know, them to get
funded from everywhere. And so a small, yeah, a small team can make a huge impact. So there,
there you can have your meme coin moment in RWA is if, know a project like that comes so yeah thank you for
having us oh sure no that's that's an excellent point um hedy how about you what what's interesting
who's doing something kind of exciting in this space right now thank you justin yeah so very
quick answer first ripple um reason it's um, they're very crypto-native, and they settle with, obviously, regulations fights.
Third, they're sharp in terms of, obviously,
yesterday they announced their acquisition.
So they took a more aggressive and shorter path, to be honest.
And the brand, obviously.
So I think they're the first, and we're honestly working with them,
but there will be more announcements that officially came out.
Secondly, I would probably want to name someone that's potential, Franklin Templation. I think they
even before to, you know, positioning into RWA before this whole hype or narrative came out,
they're starting to obviously invest into a lot of crypto companies coming from an institution
space. That's kind of very taking risk from their standpoint because they're probably a bigger asset
management and very traditional but they're willing to kind of risky their own like traditional
footprint to very aggressively step into like crypto or DeFi world long time ago so Ripple
and then Franklin Templation yeah right okay those are. And it's good to hear about new projects again as well.
Bandeep, it keeps rearranging the order on me.
So I don't think I've asked you this question yet.
Who out there do you like?
Any small projects?
So, yeah.
I mean, as you know, I'm building a stablecoin.
So the comment already about the stablecoin is interesting
because it's with the co-founder and former CEO of Tether, Reeve Collins.
So we know a few things about stablecoins given his authorship with the industry.
And ours is a RWA-backed stablecoin.
So we take a special interest.
I find what's happening in Abu Dhabi with Libra Capital to be intriguing
because they're doing the hard work of getting institutional adoption this way.
So they work with BlackRock, they work with Hamilton Lane, they work with Franklin Templeton.
And they also stitch in the various ecosystem partners, whether it's Mantra or Chainlink or Plume.
They work across the board to bring more and more institutional funds on chain.
and therefore for us they're a great source of tokenized rwas that are also vetted while they're
also championing the whole tokenization movement within slow-moving institutions right so to me
they're they stand out and their backing is obviously nomura brevin harvard for the ventures
so they've got a good dna there to uh to push this along we like them for that very cool simplicity
you're the last one same question you know who who is uh doing innovative work right now
yeah so i think it's already been echoed in terms of stable coins uh the three that i like the most
and i will also look into a bendeep's project uh later because i hadn't heard of it but our rsr
athena and usual uh for me usual is my favorite out of the three i think athena is an entirely
better market proof and i do think there's some risk there and then on a different note just to give a different answer
not exactly a project but a narrative that i'm looking out for and it's not one i'm entirely
happy about but i do think there's going to be a lot of profit to be made in uh like uh military
rwas or like ammunition rwas just because i do think where the world is headed
i think there's a lot of opportunity there uh despite my personal opinions on it not being a
fan but yeah i think though yeah yeah it looks i'm feeling bullish on global hardship right now
not that i mean that sounds wrong i'm feeling bullish that's going to happen. Not that I want it to, of course, folks.
But, you know, go ahead.
Sorry.
I was going to say I completely agree with you.
Yeah, it's not something I want to happen, but I'm bullish on it happening.
Right.
Simplicity's not hoping for it, but we are moving.
You know, we are going to tokenize the arms.
So that's good.
You know, war has always been profitable, after all. Well, for some people.
Anyway, thank you all very much for coming on my show. It's been a cool discussion. I've talked a
lot about RWAs. I'm glad that we got to get into some of the deeper aspects of it today. That's
been a lot of fun. Hey, as I say to, at the end of every show,
please follow these good people for donating their time and their experience and their domain
expertise around the RWAs. I'm always very pleased at the, you know, just the raw brain
power of all the people that will come out and be on my shows and help explain things to me and
talk to me about it. So it's been great to have them. We thank them and go ahead and follow yay network as well. They're fantastic. And we've been doing
a great little show. Um, if you follow me, if you'd like to, and as I say, at the end of every
show, if you get the chance, try and get outside at some point today, if you can, feels like winter
again here in Pennsylvania, which is kind of depressing, but, uh, you know, it's, I mean,
not really, it feels, it feels like it's like November or something. It's like 35 degrees or so. It's just
yeah, I'm so sick of it. I just want it to be warm for real like was last week. But try to get
outside. But most importantly, try to get detached from your devices. If you're going to be outside
for 10 minutes, don't look at your phone the entire time.
I don't know if it counts if you look at your phone the entire time. This is how I have to deal
with myself because I am a ubiquitous user and constantly I have to, you know, purposefully
take breaks in order to get away from things. Because otherwise you get inundated, man. That's
no way to live as a human. After all, we've got to, we've talked
about money and technology on this show and on all of my shows, but, you know, money and technology
certainly do help make the world go round, but it is not literally, they are not literally everything
in the world. So I leave you with that. And thank you to all my guests for coming back again
at you at 3 p.m. UTC next Wednesday with another great topic.
And thank you, guests. And we love you. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.
