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The Future Of Psychedelics (ft. PsyDAO)
Recorded: Sept. 11, 2025 Duration: 1:07:40Space Recording
Short Summary
PsyDAO is making waves in the crypto and psychedelic research space with strategic partnerships, innovative project launches, and community-driven funding initiatives. The organization is focused on democratizing access to psychedelic science while exploring new token opportunities and supporting local communities through grants.
Full Transcription
Just waiting for people to jump into the space here.
I'm excited for the space today.
We have some special guests from CyDOW.
We have Paul coming back, of course, to help me along in this journey.
There's CyDOW right there.
Welcome.
We have Tyler coming from CyDel, Tyler Quigley.
Am I pronouncing that right, Tyler?
Yes.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing well.
Sorry, I'm just trying to figure out the...
There's a lot of technical details to play with as you come into a space.
Paul?
Yeah, you can hear me okay, right?
Oh, yeah, loud and clear.
Okay, cool.
Paul looks like we can't hear you yet.
But thanks, everyone, for joining the space.
We want to get to some cutting edge science.
Tyler has some really interesting things to share, both from PsyDOW and just in the space generally.
And I'm stoked to get to it.
Yeah, hell yeah.
Paul, are you in here yet?
Oh, Mickey co-host, apologies.
So Tyler, for anyone just joining now, could you start explaining a little bit about what CyDAO is and what it kind of came out of?
Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to share about CIDAO, which is the decentralized autonomous organization in which I frequent as the science lead.
A decentralized autonomous organization itself is kind of maybe a concept that not many people have been exposed to.
In short, Decentralized Autonomous Organization, DAO, DAO.
It's kind of like a group of friends with a shared bank account and then the ability to vote on how those resources are used.
And DAOs are an organizational structure that emerged on the Ethereum blockchain as a way to organize differently and in a more obviously decentralized way,
a more community focused way.
In the past few years, there have been DAOs popping up that have been focusing on funding
science.
So, PsyDAO is one DAO and a broader ecosystem of de-psydows or bio-DAOs that each focus on
a specific area of research.
PsyDAO, our mission is to progress psychedelic science and art.
And so we also, while science is one of our main focuses,
we also are interested in funding other projects in the psychedelic sphere,
including art projects, media projects, et cetera.
And if you think about the science of psychedelics,
it was suppressed for many years.
And the way that science was done on the internet, it was in forums like Arrowhead, Blue Light,
Reddit.
And that was where all the information that was coming out around psychedelics existed.
And these forums on the internet were completely permissionless.
Anyone who had an interest in psychedelics and in the science of psychedelics could participate either through accessing this
qualitative data that was being posted or contributing data themselves by posting
trip reports or other sorts of information. There was even obviously underground chemists there that
were consulting on different techniques to extract or
synthesize psychedelics. And while it's great that now all of a sudden psychedelics are becoming
mainstream and universities are funding departments on psychedelics and the government is funding
research into psychedelics, it's also become much more centralized. It's become cordoned off into
companies and research labs. And while this has caused a sort of economic and attention boost in psychedelics, it also
has decreased the ability for the average person to participate in the scientific process
related to psychedelics.
And so what our goal at PsyDOW is, is to sort of return to that grassroots ability for anyone
to participate in psychedelic science.
And the way that we do this is through operating on chain.
We operate using the tools that have been developed within the Web3 sphere, within the
cryptocurrency sphere to optimize or to involve anyone in the governance of science, in the
participation in science as a participant, in the access to capital formed around psychedelic science.
And all of this, all of the things that we're doing now at SideO are really experiments.
It's very new. We've only had our funding for less than a year.
We've already implemented a variety of projects, which I would love to detail in this call. But we feel that we've had massive success
in returning to this Arrowood-like level
of psychedelic science and opening our doors
to everyone that's interested to play some role
in whatever their agency and creativity
and personal desires may lead them.
I'll tell you. Give me one, Ryan.
Sorry, I was muted there.
I know that was one of the things that I was really excited about when I started talking
to PsyDOW is how much they as a collective care about democratizing both access to psychedelics
and psychedelic science and psychedelic research
as well. So I am curious though, I know Paul is also a very big supporter of democratizing
psychedelics. And I'm curious what projects though that you're working on right now and how the
average person can get involved if they're interested in learning more yeah absolutely i'll start with how the average person can get involved uh that is
really just a matter of jumping into our discord and introducing yourself and whatever you're
interested in whatever your expertise is in and then tapping into the various channels on our
discord to understand what's going on be involved involved in the conversation, ask a shit ton of
questions. All of the people that are considered on our core team are always there answering
questions, taking meetings, trying to introduce people to the concept of a DAO and how we operate,
which is very foreign. And it took me a while when I first started joining BioDAOs to figure
out what's going on, how do I actively engage and provide value, but it's ultimately very possible and permissionless,
which is the best part.
In terms of the projects we have going on, I am in charge of the science aspects of CIDAL,
and so I've managed the deal flow. So we had a call out early 20, late 2024 and 2025 for researchers to submit
funding applications through our website. And three projects have emerged from that kind of
deal flow system. One of them is a project funding a novel pathway to understanding how dmt is regulated in the brain so that project
endogenous dms is related to endogenous dmt regulation so the potential outcome of that
project is potentially a non-psychedelic pharmaceutical that it could allow us to
access the dmt that we produce in our own brain so it's really exciting work so getting high
getting high on your own supply getting high on your own supply. Getting high on your own supply, exactly.
And the team that's implementing that project is Andrew Gallimore in collaboration with Chris McCurdy at University of Florida.
And we're partnering with Neonautics, which some of you may be aware of, on that project.
And they're very interested in lots of really cool stuff, but including Diogenes DMT and Extended States.
So that project is the first one that sort of bubbled out of our deal flow mechanism
the second one that's coming soon and will actually be up for a community vote which
anyone on this call could participate on to participate in is a project looking at these
novel mdma pro drugs and they're actually mdma complexes so mdma bound to a poor metal structure
MDMA complexes, so MDMA bound to a poor metal structure and amino acid. And this is extremely
novel intellectual property around MDMA pro-drugging that could potentially solve some of the issues
with safety and efficacy and also targeted delivery and hopefully the come down because
part of delivering MDMA with a metal ion is that you're delivering this antioxidant
in terms of the metal ion directly to the site of MDMA.
And so all the, the, you know, the dangerous features of MDMA are related
to oxidative stress caused by the release of serotonin.
So if you can deliver an antioxidant directly there as well, then there's
a hypothesis that this might ameliorate some of those effects that, uh, lead
people to not want to maybe take MDMA again.
And how far along is that research?
That research is in the early stages.
The proposal that we're reviewing is to build out the intellectual property when it's secured.
The proposal is to build out various iterations of these pro drugs,
second generation,
third generation versions so that we can optimize for which one works the best and start running
some preclinical assays on that as well. Other than that, we have a, we funded Zeus Tappado
at a university of Maastricht whose research for his PhD research, he's researching DMT and virtual
reality. But the research that we
funded was his work on dmxc which is this arrow cyclohexamine related to mxc and uh in a isn't it
a bit more psychedelic than mxc yeah so from action i i missed an opportunity to try dXC on a recent trip to Europe because of some mailing issues.
But from the reports that Zeus has compiled, DMXC is very, very interesting.
He sort of optimized the protocol on how to use it.
It involves like sitting in an amorphous seat, like a beanbag and having close, closing up
the auditory pathways a bit.
So there's this insane auditory, hallucinatory aspect to it.
But ultimately, the project that we're pursuing is trying to understand the effects of DMXC on just basic markers of human health, because it's very understudied in animal models and
much less humans, but also trying to figure out if there is a therapeutic potential in this
and if it kind of follow a similar trajectory
to ketamine, for instance,
in terms of getting some sort of approval
way down the road if all the science breaks out.
Before I move on, the last project
I really want to highlight,
which is super unique,
not only for a biodow,
but for an organization in general,
is we have a long lasting relationship
with the Shipibo tribe located down in the Amazon,
mostly around Peru.
And one of the best projects that,
the most inspiring projects that we funded this year
is we've sent Ethereum down there
to fund the construction of a cafe
right on the river bank on the Ucayali River.
And we've basically funded this for a Shipibo-run cafe that's catering to not only the western tourists coming there for ayahuasca retreats, but the local community.
And so they're experimenting with really cool ethnobotanical kenewasta through the eye,
which is an insane rabbit hole that you'll have to come into the Discord and go down the rabbit
hole with some of our members in order to really understand. But we're really excited about that
project and we're diving deeper into the pharmacology in that area and the undiscovered psycho, undiscovered ethnobotanical sources there
that are ethnobotanical products
that could eventually be sourced from that area.
But the best thing about this is that all of this
is in collaboration with the Shipibo,
where the native systems of Desai allow intellectual property
to be easily shared and fractionalized
amongst a group of people. And so all of the intellectual property that be easily shared and fractionalized amongst a group of people.
And so all of the intellectual property that emerges from this area that we can sort of help bring out into the world will all be Shipibo owned and will sort of be facilitating their
ability to access global markets through the artwork and science and the really super valuable
things that they have down there in their culture and their culture in themselves. And so our goal there is to just is not just to be not just to engage reciprocity, but
to like allow for the agency of people that don't have access to the sorts of networks
and markets that we do living in these, you know, westernized cultures.
And that's that's the ultimate goal.
And happy to answer more questions.
We have Jesse here on the call, too, who has been working with them since uh early in law school
and has been a key in that partnership that can answer any questions anyone has but i'll stop
there because it was a long rant it's a lot of information i know you guys have more questions so
please uh i'll mute myself for a second very that's very interesting i i really love the uh love the respect that you're that you're showing uh these these molecules and um where they come from i i am i am curious teller the uh
maybe just at least for my own education maybe for others is
the how does side down differentiate itself from traditional research institutions, just in terms of the scientific progress and contributions that you're looking to make?
I'm hoping that if you know, like, how is it done at the moment, status quo? What are the challenges with that?
I do know that there's a lot of like institutional like hegemony in terms of the way that you're supposed to think.
I'm really excited about the concept of decentralized science because it allows
for those risk takers and out-of-the-box thinkers. I am curious what that looks like in practice,
or at least the difference between what is so called the orthodoxy right now and where you see
the limitations there and how you are you upside down or below to come to that.
Yeah, absolutely. and it's a really
good question and it speaks to the heart of the decentralized movement itself um side out when
side i emerged it was in a in a slightly different context than we're even facing now where back in
even 2020 2021 when these sorts of concepts were being developed, psychedelic research was still kind of getting into universities.
There were a few organizations within universities that were popping up, but it was still a largely underfunded areas of research and be able to accelerate that research in ways that are not accelerated by traditional grant funding agencies.
While like in the current regime of the US is slightly more open to psychedelics, and as we've seen, there's been a lot of psychedelic research enterprises opening up and so it's it's still generally an underfunded
area of research and it's our hope that we can inject funds into psychedelic research more but
also not you know of the decision of five people on a committee in the recess in the deep you know
recesses of the nih making decisions and where funding goes all the funding that we're putting
out into the into the psychedelic space is fully community-driven, community-governed.
Anyone can have a say in what they think about the research and if or if it should not be
funded.
And it also opens ourselves up to partnering outside of universities.
While the first research, the EDMT research is happening at University of Florida, the
MDMA project research is delivered to us by an independent chemist who was working at a university but is now on his own
and wants to work on this sort of outside of the realms of university. And so it gives us this
flexibility to inject funds based on the quality of the project and the community alignment of the
project rather than based off of some aging institutional
priority lists that can cover a broader space.
And just as an example of other areas of underfunded research that there are now DAOs dedicated
to, women's health, AthenaDAO, is an area of research that psychedelics and women's
health may be flip flopped in this administration.
All of the women's health has been funded. And I, that's, you know,
from personal experience,
one of my PhD committee members was trying to opening up a GoFundMe because she
lost her grants that she said for 20 years funding women's health,
aging menopause research. And now there,
now there's a doubt that is using a community to drive value into oneself research and
so we it's not a perfect solution it's not nearly even close to i think the impact that it could
potentially have um but it's we're already making waves and filling in a funding uh vacuum that's
been left by just like i said changing regimes and that'll that'll continue in the future and
been left by just, like I said, changing regimes and that'll continue in the future.
And a healthy skepticism that all regimes seem to have on these compounds.
I'm really curious about the MDMA, like the fact that that's actually not coming from
a university.
It's almost, I like to imagine like a broad researcher.
I'm curious, is that, was this person underfunded because they didn't want to look into the MDMA?
I think that's an incredible use case where somebody is going against the grain
and there's still access to funding.
So I wonder if you're able to speak like what the decision process this person went through,
why they were underfunded, and maybe also more generally like what your funding criteria is.
I understand that it's community, but what are the things that you're really excited about when you're thinking of these projects?
Yeah, that's both also really good questions.
I think the funding path that this person took was basically that while they were at a university,
they had developed this novel intellectual property and had, for whatever reasons, parted
ways with that university, their stay ended.
But they had this IP and it was still something that they felt was valuable.
And instead of kind of going the traditional biotech startup route where you raise from
friends and family and then you collect some data and then you go to a seed round and you're
just like steadily de-risking a drug over time. That's really, really expensive. And RDAO is another place that one could go
to for funding, but not only for funding, but also for another, a larger network of expertise
and not being bound by the same sorts of term sheets that one might engage in if they were
to go a traditional VC route. I think also they were already around the DSi space.
They were already interested in the funding mechanisms.
They're already sort of radicalized against institutions.
And so they saw SIDO as an aligned culture fit for the science
that was near and dear to their heart.
And then in terms of what we look for in projects, it's a really good question.
When we're looking at science projects, obviously the golden science project is one that could produce intellectual property that we feel could be commercialized one day.
The unique part of how we manage intellectual property is that we mint intellectual property on the blockchain as an NFT.
And we sell or offer tokens that are related to this IPNFT that represent a stake in the
governance and potentially maybe future revenues down the line.
But that's a whole different thing that gets into revenues and KYC verification, et cetera.
But it's a mechanism of funding that allows anyone
to participate in funding a project they believe in
to participate in governing the directions of that science.
And so this intellectual property aspect is the key feature,
but intellectual property can also be defined broadly
as really valuable data sets.
It can be defined broadly as copyrighted protocols
that maybe emerge from like a breathwork research process.
And so while we're looking for value
and ways to return value to the community,
we're also looking to just get into projects
that we believe in and have conviction around.
And like I said, we've been around for a year.
We've had one major funding round. And
we've learned a lot from it. But as we do more and more rounds, we'll start to learn more and
more about our core identity and what we're identifying. And part of that will be driven
by the projects that we see and what ultimately the community decides is the right way to go.
Yeah, so if you're a psychedelic researcher trying to develop a new drug, you know who to talk to now. Thank you, Tyler, for that. I do want to open up for a quick round of questions. So if anyone's been listening for a bit and has something they'd like to ask Tyler or PsyDow more generally, please request to speak or throw up an emoji.
speak or throw up an emoji if not um i am very curious tyler and i have talked a little bit
about this um these mdma like compounds that are being developed and one of the things that i
thought was so interesting about these compounds is that they're actually supposed to be like dark
purple correct tyler yeah there's a drastic binding metals
into crystal structures that will change the color of them
in various ways, depending on the properties of the metal.
Yeah, so instead of like a light purple MDMA
that you sometimes see now from impurities,
in the process, it would be a dark purple compound.
Yeah, Side-Out branded MDMA, hitting the streets.
Like Breaking Bad.
Yeah, so if anybody wants to brand MDMA, hit us up as well.
I'm also curious, while we wait for speakers,
I maybe want to spend a moment just thinking out because I know CIDAO has a token.
I know that each of these projects have tokens, and I'm just curious about how you think about
how value flows to each of these tokens and basically the value proposition
the value proposition behind the token
yeah so i'll preface this with none of this is at all financial advice these are highly speculative
blockchain linked assets that are correlated and related to real projects in the real world but
in no way do i want to say anything with any sort of confidence that uh you will make a ton of money
these tokens will be insanely valuable one day because we just don't know we're we're really experimenting with this and it is working out and
it has worked out for other dals uh but it is still like a um an inefficient process and it
can result in you losing everything if you invest your life savings so i'll preface everything with
that that all said uh crypto is about community it's about attention um one of the ways in which
Crypto is about community. It's about attention.
One of the ways in which funds actually are generated through minting a token is through the market activity itself.
So by initiating a token and putting it on a decentralized exchange, the individual who's accrued, who's created the token and created this liquidity pool where you can swap in and out with different tokens,
it'll actually generate fees in Ethereum that we can then use to offload and fund actual scientific research. And this is what you see play out on
platforms like Pump.Science. If you guys don't know, not heard of Pump.Science, that's the URL,
so you can go there and check it out. We launched two tokens, which are at their very core,
they're just meme points. They're psilocybin or psilocin and LSD meme points.
But we launched them on a platform that will actually return the fees to us in the form of scientific funding.
And what this platform does is they use the hype around different compounds to fund various animal studies that with looking for longevity endpoints.
And so they start in C. elegans worms. Then if a certain trading fee benchmark is hit,
that will fund a fly or drosophila study. If the next market cap check benchmark is hit,
it'll fund a mouse study. And the ultimate goal is to bring compounds through pump science
and then run decentralized clinical focused trials on these compounds for longevity endpoints that said we
launched psychedelics on there psilocybin and lst were recently found to extend lifespan in uh mice
and worms respectively this past and elbert hoffman what's that and elbert hoffman yes yes
what's that and elbert hoffman yes yes and um yeah so we're running these for longevity endpoints
to see if we can uh find some additional information about the effect of psychedelics
and longevity but we're ultimately interested in spinning out trials to look at various other
indications related to lsc and psilocybin, but also on future cellular compounds that we launch, which maybe are less
understood, such as DMXC, which will be will be the next
compound that we launch on compound science. And so
ultimately, yeah, if you are an individual that are
speculating about these exotic cryptocurrencies that are
related to science projects, and you are interested in buying one
because you believe in that project buy it because of that conviction and maybe the value will come
back but ultimately your contribution will have funded science and that should be like the primary
goal of engaging into space but there is there are ways to tie value back through token buybacks
through you know media attention on tokens,
because that's also what drives market activity and people buying it and,
and raising the price. And then, yeah, if, you know,
one of these compounds that one of these tokens that represents a project
results in, you know, a 1.2 billion acquisition by a big pharma company,
like what happened recently between Gilgamesh and AbbVie,
that could eventually result in some sort of revenue flow back to token holders.
But that's, again, it's like investing early in a new stage biotech company.
You have no clue what's going to happen.
But it's really just about conviction and belief in the space
and wanting to progress science and so on.
So anyone interesting, or sorry, anyone listening, you heard how to get involved.
We have two speakers here now. Looks like Jesse and Consciousness Residency Edge City.
Welcome, both of you. Thank you for your patience. I'm not sure who wants to go first.
And whoever opens up their mic, I guess.
Thanks, Taylor. And thanks, you guys.
This is super interesting.
For the existing tokens that SIDO has launched,
it seems to me like there's an overarching narrative
from the token launcher molecule and pump science
that they're IP tokens.
Can you speak a little bit to that?
Yeah.
Do you mean speak to the,
what an IP token is or.
Yeah.
Like,
like if I'm,
if I'm buying one of these tokens,
do I somehow have a IP, exposure to the IP?
Like, is it more than just a meme coin in that context?
Yeah.
So the tokens I mentioned on Pump Science, while they are launched on Solana, so they're
in the meme coin environment, those are more in the meme coin category, whereas the tokens
will launch to represent projects like the EDMT proposal project and the MDMA project proposal.
Those are initially minted as an IP NFT. And so anything related to the intellectual property,
whether that's an actual provisional application, whether that's some sort of contract of a right
of future access to intellectual property that emerges from a project that's actually minted as an NFT on chain and immutable with the minter of that NFT.
And so it's always tied to the person who's put it there.
And then the tokens that are minted that are related to that IP NFT, they are tokens that represent a sort of fractionalized governance and ownership over that intellectual property.
And whereas they're not owning any IP themselves, they do have ownership over everything that's
relevant to what an IP holder gains from holding IP. And so a IP producer that's minted an IP NFT
that is interested in minting tokens is around their
IP is interested in doing this because they're interested in sharing the governance and sharing
the potential maybe future revenues down the line with a community of experts, of patients
that want to have a stake in the potential treatments that can treat their diseases.
And these are projects and people that are interested in this sort of decentralized way
of doing science inherently.
So does that answer your question properly?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, it sounds to me like what you said at the beginning of the DAO itself being like
a group of friends with a shared bank account,
but for these specific projects.
So for like the endogenous DMT research being funded,
the EDMT token would be basically like the holder's stake in this group chat
with a bank account for funding EDMT stuff?
Yes.
That's a good way to put it.
Is it?
And the side, does the side that, how the side up token related to some of these,
um, these other, is the side up treasury hold them so that you get some part of the
fees from that, how, how are they related?
Because there's not several tokens. are just trying to piece it together.
Yeah, it's a good question.
I think many DAOs do this differently, whereas CIDAO,
we are interested in developing a sort of linked token economy
around projects that are related to psychedelics.
And so one of the ways in which Csy and one of these tokens can be related
is if we were to open up some sort of Psy IP token liquidity pool
where someone that has Psy can directly buy the intellectual poverty token with their Psy.
Another way that we are sort of driving value into the token,
the Psy.token itself, Psy, is by opening up some DeFi protocols,
such as staking and farming
whereas folders of side can basically stake their side into a smart contract which will
admit these intellectual property tokens to them over time for as long as they're staking
their side so the more size steak the more of an admittance this will happen, but it allows us to mint projects and then basically
dribble the tokens and those individual currencies related to that project down to
sideholders, allowing people to grow their stake in this network as long as they've already made
this initial sort of investment in the side token itself. And I say investment, like investing their
interest and time and stuff not like
saying it is an investment so so so all value so so it's the it's the token to rule them all
it's upstream of all the yeah it's like how you use uh us dollar to access us stocks and those
stocks we trade out for us dollar it's like. It's like SAI is the entry point since it's a broader tokenized psychedelic network
state that SAIDOW is sort of piecing together.
Okay, so just to underline this for my sake and maybe
for the listeners is that if you want
to get access to a broad range of this IP, just buying
a holding stake in SA inside itself actually allows you to greater exposure.
And you can dig down to each of those if you're a so-called user.
Yeah, 100%.
So it's like if holding USD gave you airdrops of the S&P 500.
Yeah, wouldn't that be nice?
That'd be great. Actually think that i think that that's
the case now right doesn't every person born in america get like a thousand dollars of s&p 500
at birth i wasn't told about that wow yeah i think it's it might be new like this year
does it count if you're born through an insane ayahuasca yeah what if you're
reborn we'll have to talk to them uh can we get consciousness residency in here oh i'm curious
what you ever share yeah yeah hello everyone um can you hear me yeah Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
You're doing such important work.
Thanks, Tyler and everyone.
It's so great to hear about what you guys are up to.
Yeah, I'm here to just talk a little bit about the consciousness residency coming up at Edge Patagonia.
I am quite aware that you guys might not be familiar with Edge, so I can give like a quick overview. But basically, Edge City is this like new city concept where it's popping up all over the world in these like month-long immersive villages. So the last one was in Esmeralda outside of the Bay
Area a couple months ago. And the next one is going to be in this amazing village in San Martin de los Andes in Argentina
and it's a really walkable city it's so beautiful and the concept is that like getting people
together for one month kind of co-living co-working opens up the opportunity for amazing collaboration
building and kind of just like interdisciplinary fields and it's kind of this new way of living and working
that the edge people are trying to reimagine.
And Edge Patagonia is shaping up to be really, really awesome.
I'm Madison.
I'm hosting the Consciousness Residency.
It's called Consciousness at the Edge,
Living Experiments in Sound Somatics and Altered States.
Super exciting.
It's actually kind of one of the first of its kind.
But basically the concept is that it's like this month-long immersive residency, bringing together scientists, like healing facilitators, residents to kind of in a very decentralized way run experiments at the forefront of psychedelics, consciousness,
breath, sound, neuroscience, and a lot more. And we're specifically really excited about
doing some psychedelic experiments down there. We are in talks to kind of, we want to get side
out involved and kind of just like get the greater community involved.
And for anyone who's listening, if you have interest in coming out to Patagonia, we would so love to have you be a part of this.
It's, um, it kind of made waves across Twitter last week and people were like, what is this?
What even is a consciousness experiment?
And that's really what's so cool. It's kind of one of the first of its kind. And yeah, the concept is that like these kind of experiments sometimes can't happen in traditional labs or clinics in like a very sterile environment. And like what happened if what happens if we do it in kind of this more immersive co-living like casual setting? It opens it up for ultra frequent sampling and like really good kind of
And that's really what's so cool.
It's kind of one of the first of its kind.
open source data um so yeah um that's kind of like the whole that's that's the whole thing um
we uh would love to just kind of get questions from like anyone in here or kind of talk through
maybe Tyler we can talk through uh, I know you were talking about
coming out. So have you, uh, yeah. Yeah. We've been, uh, we've been chatting a little bit.
Uh, I would love, I invited Aqueous up, uh, who is another side out member. I would love to
get him to come talk about some of the things that we've been discussing,
because he would be the one leading this, uh, charge we're um we're intrigued and we definitely want to talk more about what we can implement down there
and man i would love to come down so it's definitely very closely on the books taylor
paul you guys want to join us oh yeah i'm interested uh looks like we got aqueous in here
as well if i'm if i'm pronouncing that right I am curious though
Madison um like what inspired Edge City and what types of people come yeah so I'm not directly
affiliated with Edge City it is a non-profit um but yeah Edge City was actually first called
Zuzalu I don't know if anyone's familiar but it's actually kind of a vitalic brainchild, which is awesome.
Kind of funny.
But yeah, it was first Zuzalu, and then it kind of like shifted into Edge City.
And yeah, it's really awesome.
It's kind of reimagining the way that we live and work in kind of a more seasonal vibe.
And so I'll explain what I mean by this. But right right now we kind of have this like nine to five working culture um but the concept is like what if every couple of
months we gathered and we went deep on something and we kind of had this like more social community
co-creation and it's just one month and you know you can go go really, really deep, really fast, kind of co-living, being in a walkable village amongst like the subset of people.
And then when it ends, you kind of go back on your own and kind of do deep work for the next couple of months.
And then you gather again.
And the concept is like, what kind of innovation would happen if we kind of are shifting towards this model of living and working and how much
more expansive would it be? How much more efficient would it be? And one of the big
themes is opening up chance for synchronicity. So if you're like in the town square of this village
and you run into someone and turns out they're the perfect person you need for this like other
part of this project, it's just like there's a butterfly effect
that's really incredible um I what inspired me personally um to do the consciousness residency
I um I mean just more generally psychedelics have been a huge part of my life I uh I used to have
head-to-toe full-body eczema and I actually cured myself through a mix of stuff, but psychedelics were a really,
really big part.
And it's still so largely underexplored that I just feel like really, really passionate about kind of pushing forward this cutting edge of tech.
And I think it's just very important.
And, you know, I thought edge would be a perfect container to run something like this.
And, you know, one thing led to another. People started getting really excited about it. I thought Edge would be the perfect container to run something like this.
And, you know, one thing led to another.
People started getting really excited about it.
And now it's becoming really real.
And it's so amazing.
I was kind of joking around that, like,
you kind of have to send out a bat signal sometimes and just see who comes.
And I think that's how some of the best things are created.
So I don't know if that fully answered the question.
It did. Thank you.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah. And hey, everybody. I'm actually, my name is Andrew. I am attending Edge City.
I've been in talks with Madison at Consciousness Residency,
as well as Tyler over at Stydidao to activate some you know citizen science psychedelic
uh you know pilot studies uh i i also work with microbiome dow a little bit um which is another
bio dow in the decentralized science ecosystem focused on gut health and we're cooking up a cool collaboration between side out my cobiobe now
and edge city uh to do some like diet induced uh you know psychedelic experiences so yeah excited to
be here diet induced psychedelic experiences i have to hear more about that diet diet modulated diet modulated there's
there's some uh you know they so they say there's like 95 of your serotonin is in your gut uh and
preliminary research shows that your microbiome um can affect like the effectiveness of like
psilocybin experiences for instance uh and like intensity and onset
so yeah we're testing out some things like people do ayahuasca diets
where you like only eat like fish and bananas and rice and then you eat or you drink ayahuasca
and and that's like you know it's it's pretty set in stone
yeah and in a lot of traditional contexts there's diets for different psychedelics such as ayahuasca
like jesse just mentioned but also um like mescalate so you know talk about like san
pedro cactus which natively grows in south South America. That could definitely be on the charts there.
A lot of times it's for safety reasons,
but sometimes it's also just for modulating the experience itself.
So what are you guys going to eat to try to change the experience?
So Microbiome Dow has been doing some research on different diets that just affect general
health and consciousness, mood, that type of thing.
So we're exploring right now what it might look like, but I was actually doing some research
today on this and apparently there's an interesting effect when you combine coca leaves, which
grow natively in Argentina, as well as san pedro cactus um and
people do this very commonly in order to like affect the experience so that's like a kind of
two psychoactive plants that can affect each other but also just diet in terms of like simple diet
less processed foods um that can have an effect on your experience as well so you have like somebody
will have like an argentinian beef barbecue and then somebody will have like a vegetarian meal
and then like they'll both take san pedro and see what happens could be it that could be it
happens?
Could be it.
That could be it.
Largely, this is going to be an observational study.
And so we're going to be collecting data
and kind of seeing kind of what questions we can ask
the data for more longitudinal studies post-Edge.
I think it's kind of like what Paul asked earlier.
Like, well, what's different about this decentralized science compared to traditional orthodoxy science?
is different is like the actual practice of the scientific pursuit going into the hands of
ordinary people because so much of dsci it seems to me is really just decentralized funding of
science it's not actually decentralized doing of science so i guess it appears to me to be an opportunity for you all there in Patagonia during this pop-up city experiment to do the actual decentralized science, not just the funding of the science.
Is that accurate? Do you feel that way?
Go ahead.
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Jesse, thank you for the questions earlier and I'm so blessed to school you on IPTs,
because I know you're very new to the subject.
But what you're an expert in is the Shipibo and Kenne and Kenne Wasta.
And this is such an integral part of what Side-Out is doing. And I
obviously spoke about it earlier as one of the projects that I'm most inspired by. But I'm
wondering if you could give us like, just like a nice brief, but also detailed in the right places
overview of what this collaboration and what this partnership looks like and what it means for
for the Shipibo and for
the Shipibo and for Side-Out and for the Segellix field as a whole.
Side Out and for the Segelics
field as a whole.
Thanks, Tyler. Yeah, I'm
a freak for Kene, and
I fucking love
them. Like, if you don't know
these patterns,
you should. Yeah, what are they?
What's that? What are
they? So,
Kene, as I pronounce them in
my accent, but Kene in Shipibo with a guttural stop on the E are, huh?
It's K-E-N accent E, K-N-U.
And if you type Shipibo, K-E-N-E, you'll find them. And if you've been to any, you know, shaman, itinerant shaman ceremony in, you know,
you'll probably see someone with one of these fabrics that the Shipibo women wear traditionally as skirts, but also the people paint on their houses and their walls and their faces and
the men who facilitate the shamanic ceremonies, whereas these tunics called kushmas,
which is like a full-on kene pattern,-toe, you know, tunic dress thing
It makes it really easy if you like
Have to shit yourself or something with ayahuasca because it happens, you know, and and that the pattern itself
What the meaning of what it expresses is a circuit board of consciousness.
I think you're muted.
You're muted.
Or there's some sound.
Oh, sorry.
Oh, there we go.
Did you get the matrix piece?
Or was I muted for that one. So what's so compelling about these patterns is that they express in a
two-dimensional format a three-dimensional matrix of consciousness made visible to the people
taking these psychedelic plants, whether it's ayahuasca or this kene plant, the kunawasta,
or spelled K-E-N-E-W-A-S-T-E. It looks like Kenne Waste, but it's Kuna Wasta.
And when they take it and they put it in their eyes,
and they drink ayahuasca and they drink some Kuna Wasta with it,
they see in the space that is otherwise empty between things.
And as an overlay on top of things, this pattern,
this matrix-style pattern of circuit boards of consciousness called Kuna.
And if you look at those, you can search right now online and you find an amazing data set.
Not as amazing as our data set, of course.
We have, I think, the world's best high fidelity scans of Kuna.
high fidelity scans of Kuna, you'll see that not only do they have these amazing geometries,
but also within these geometric matrices are these little Tetris shapes. And those little
Tetris shapes, if you've done an ayahuasca diet or khanawasta or you spent some time with the Shipibo or maybe in your own time you've experimented with psychedelics, especially like Chang'e and other DMT-coded ones, you'll notice our information packets.
notice are information packets. And in this mind state where you feel like you're an inseparable
P, this cosmic hole, where your separate self is dissolved into this shared superstructure,
those little Tetris pieces that the Shipibo put in their Kuna are actually data-rich information
packets of all kinds of stuff.
And you can, you know, when you're in the midst of this experience, you can go into
that information packet and open it up, like opening up a file folder on your computer
and see all the stuff that it contains.
And so what's so compelling about these patterns is that they take all of that knowledge and
all that information and they compress it down and express it as this beautiful geometric thing that they wear
their clothes and paint on their houses and shamans learn to see. Not only do they learn to
see them, but they learn that those patterns are broken where people are sick and they can
see, so they say, right?
So they say.
They can see those broken pieces and when they're looking around the room at the people
drinking in the ayahuasca ceremony in the maloca, and then they sing these magic songs
called Benchoa in Shipibo or Icaros in Spanish. They sing these Icaros,
and when they sing those, they sing out these new patterns, and they weave back together these
broken pieces that these people had, and thereby heal them. And so there's this musical element
to the patterns that the different patterns have like different musical notation almost.
It's like an indigenous sheet music, different from our Western sheet music, but it's sheet music.
Nonetheless, it's like a different language, you know, like Chinese versus English.
And it has also this kind of synesthetic ethnobotanical element.
So you not only have this cool art form that just looks pretty,
but it has this rich lore that is super data-rich,
and it expresses this almost cosmic,
psycho-spiritual knowledge of the structure of consciousness
revealed to you by the consumption of psychedelic plants.
There's also this great sing-song attached to them all, and this amazing plant that is a very
unstudied and understudied ethnobotanical, Kunawasta, that's actually a river grass on whose
roots grow an endophytic fungi.
And as you probably know if you're listening to this call because you're interested in this subject matter,
endophytes, especially these endophytic fungi, are pretty infamous for producing very powerful psychedelic compounds,
including ergolines and lysergamides and potentially even others and so you know this
is a very long way of saying and i could talk i could yap about this for hours and hours and
hours so please forgive me for droning on for too long it's great no it's it's so amazing like it's
literally one of the most amazing things i've ever learned. And I spent my life studying this stuff.
Not my whole life, but since I was a teenager.
And a friend of mine in his dorm room said,
Trey Anastasio says, smoke DMT and trip to another world.
And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, dude?
And I went to Google DMT and I found the Arrowhead page
and started reading all this stuff.
And eventually found Ayahuasca. And I was like was like oh that sounds like the most powerful of them all and you know what went to the amazon during school and then again during law school
to work on this this subject and the ip related to it um and it still amazes me like it still
amazes me even after studying studying it for 15 years, right?
And I feel like I'm still just scratching the surface of what it is
and starting to synthesize it all together
into a cohesive understanding of what these patterns are.
But I think there's even more to them.
Like, they may hold some answers about what we need as humans
to enter into this age of conscious machinery,
these awakening intelligences inside of our network economies.
And these beautiful circuit boards of natural consciousness
may have some answers to that.
I don't know. Who knows?
But anyway, at Side Out, we're specifically looking at
what is inside of this plant, which is not really a plant because it's a plant mushroom super team dynamic duo, Batman and Robin.
What's inside of it?
What can we make out of it?
Like, could we make the cool bitters to make non-alcoholic psychotropic cocktails?
Could we make a nice nootropic drink could we make
a nice perfume because there's people people use it as perfume also and they say perfume shamans
they they love this plant because they how is it yeah sorry how is it used by the shipibo is it
just dripped into the eyes or what are the other roas or use cases, is it psychoactive, obviously? Yeah, yeah, obviously.
And so not only as eye drops, but also they put it on the freshly cut umbilical cords
of newborns in order to ostensibly have the baby grow up to be really intelligent.
But as you may know from your research into Albert Hoffman's discovery of LSD, he was
also looking at vasoconstriction for pregnancy and post-pregnancy
for birth when he discovered LSD. And so there's this interesting, I think, property of it that's
probably like a vasoconstrictor, where they're saying in their lore, we put it on the umbilical
cord of the newborn right after it's cut in order to make them grow up to be smart. But what it's
actually doing in part is stopping the bleeding. They also give it to
children who have stomachaches or grownups who have stomachaches. And then women say,
in my first-hand primary source research of this as an anthropologist, as an attorney,
as an anthropologist as an attorney they say they actually put it on their uh umbilical like on their
belly buttons when they have their first period um in order to like then become like a person
knowledgeable in the ways of kene producing kene or kene uh the art form and And then our Shipibo partner, his name is Corinna Wu de
Mer Gonzalez Vazquez, a fellow attorney that I met when I was in law school and
he wanted to go to law school. And he runs our Kenne Cafe, which is the first
indigenous owned and run cafe in the Amazon, right?
Which is like, it's, it's, it's cool.
And they have an espresso machine and everything.
And you can follow them on Instagram.
Seidel funded it.
He, before launching the cafe, he did with his brother and uncle,
like a, like a 10 day Kunawasta ayahuasca diet.
Where like, you know, if you do an ayahuasca diet you're usually
actually doing it to learn about a third plant you're using ayahuasca as kind of like a living
microscope where like you drink ayahuasca but you also drink this other plant because you want to
learn about the other plant or integrate it into your genetic code or whatever and so he dieted
kunawasta with the ayahuasca and it you they do it in order to open up the world of kene to them.
So there's like the eye drops.
There's the like, you know, helping babies reduce infant mortality.
There's like a stomach ache cure-all.
There's like a visionary thing where you drink it with ayahuasca.
like a visionary thing where you drink it with ayahuasca.
There's also like a recreational thing where like they,
they put Kunawasta,
which is,
it has the form of like these little hairy root balls.
They put the hairy balls inside of rum and they just let it distill and,
and,
you know,
decocht,
whatever you call it.
And then they drink it and it's like,
makes it like the rum really good.
Kind of like how, you know,
ancient Egyptians would drink like blue Lotus wine,
wine with blue Lotus leaves in it. So they, yeah,
they have like this Kona Wasta rum that is like really fun, you know,
it gives you a great time. And, uh,
there's one other use, which is like perfume. It smells really good.
It kind of smells like a mentholated cinnamon patchouli.
And they like,
they like spray it on their bodies to like,
before going out,
you know,
to like get lucky that night.
So it's like a,
you know,
aphrodisiac smell thing.
So yeah,
there's,
I don't know,
there's a bunch of uses to it and like,
nobody's really studied it.
And we're kind of right at the tip of the spear to use an apt metaphor.
Is it?
Yeah.
How have we not heard about this before?
Like,
like just a very small part of the region.
It's a,
it's weird.
Yeah.
It's weird.
I mean,
dude,
the jungle is a deep,
deep,
dark place.
Right.
And,
and it's,
there's a lot of pharmacopoeia of the native peoples that has yet to be really explored ayahuasca is you know
relatively new in the scientific world you know it didn't even become really globalized until like the two, the late 2010s almost.
And stuff like Sananga,
the eyedrop that has kind of gone a little viral in,
in the world psychedelic culture that didn't even really get discovered until
like fucking like,
you know,
just a few years ago and,
and combo the frog one.
And, you know, even Iboga is starting to
only starting to penetrate cultural consciousness, really.
Even psilocybin, right?
It didn't really come into cultural consciousness
until our Gordon Wasson from J.P. Morgan
kind of went down and wrote his article about it
for his Wall Street friends.
And then Richard Evans Schultes like identified it in his ethobotanical research as this, you know, one of the three sacred medicines of the Aztecs.
And so, it's just like people haven't heard about it because stuff doesn't really make it out of the jungle.
Like it's so dense in there, you know, it's hard't really make it out of the jungle. It gets so dense in there.
It's hard to even make it out yourself.
But now we have the internet, right? And now we have not only the internet, but we have internet money.
And we have the ability to go down there with our bodies or just our virtual selves,
bodies or just our virtual selves with our money and our technology and extract the information
that ultimately is the intellectual property of these people. And, you know, my great work
with this project is to do that in a way that creates wealth for the people that have for many hundreds of years,
if not thousands of years, had their property extracted, whether it's real property like land
or intellectual property like a thousand different plants that have turned into medicines without any payment.
And they still live in
basically the most abject poverty you can imagine. And we have the power, I think, to create
IP that actually does have royalties, that treats these people like the royals that they deserve to
be treated as. They even wear cool crowns, you know, made of Kenne and feathers.
Like they have crowns. They are basically royals.
There are only 35,000 of them as a population.
And so, yeah, I think we just haven't heard of it because we,
nobody's really looked hard enough. I don't know.
I'm lucky that
I'm helping push the
spear because I
always wanted to explore shit
and I feel like I'm an explorer and that's
great.
But there's so much
more to learn, right?
Yeah, I know, right?
It turns out that the mind
has a lot. Oh, sorry.
It's pretty deep and dark and expensive.
The mind. Right. Yeah. So if you're interested in learning more about Kenna or Kenna Waska, where should we go?
Check out Seidel. And we also have one more guest that I want to get to their questions.
Yeah, for sure. Just check out SideAl.
Keep your ear to the ground there because we'll deploy a full-on, we're trying to deploy like a full-on lifestyle brand around this.
Yeah, keep your eye out and yeah, check out SideAl.
Ed, looks like you're muted, but I'd love to hear the question now for us.
And thank you for your patience.
Thanks, Jesse.
That was Bethany, by the way.
Yeah, you talked about endophytic fungi entering these plants.
And I wondered if you've looked at all endophytic bacteria.
I come from regenerative science of regenerative agriculture, and we know that bacteria is an extremely important, has an extremely important role in plants feeding themselves, rhizophagy cycling, and that they grow them up by putting out exudates, compounds that the plant creates, and then to feed certain selective bacteria and they cycle them through the plant
I come from regenerative science of regenerative agriculture.
for their nutrition and to build the plant for what it's supposed to be and so it would seem
interesting to try to understand the exudates that the plants are producing to feed the bacteria and
then look at the metagenomics of that bacteria around the root zone of these plants.
I think that'd be, and then to do the, like we're doing in regenerative ag, we're doing the metabolomics to understand all the phytonutrients, all the phytochemicals that are contained in everything that grows.
So I was wondering if there's been any look at that area, the bacteria that are involved
in these plants, the specific bacteria.
Thanks.
I think Jesse's phone might have died, but I can say that there has been very, very little
research into this mutualism, and so almost definitely haven't gotten to look into that
specifically.
It is an interesting question though because just
recently in west virginia there was a bacteria or some sort of microbe found living on uh i forget
the scientific name but basically living on uh what is it taylor you recently posted about it
uh the lsa producing it's uh slipping my mind right now they found a bacteria morning glory that seems to be
producing LSA which is a derivative or analog of LSD so there's definitely precedent for
psychedelics being produced by microbes in these sorts of only sorts of plants and fungi that
we also consider to be psychedelic for various reasons. So yeah, thanks for the question.
Yeah, I don't think there's been much research into it at all.
Very limited research.
Thank you, Tyler, for answering that so well.
I think we're about to get wrapped up.
I really appreciate everyone for coming to the space today.
Please go give Sidal a follow, give Paul a follow.
Go give Andrew, Aquias up there in the corner, give him a follow, give Paul a follow. Don't give Andrew Aquias up there in the corner.
Give him a follow. Give Ed a follow.
Jesse too.
Tyler. Thank you
everyone for coming. It's been
so great to talk to a bunch of people
in the space, hear about what's
going on in the future of psychedelics and psychedelic
research.
Tyler, you have anything else to say, Paul?
Yeah, I just want to say thanks for having us. This was an
awesome space. I hope we got, you know, the bat signal out there
from side out to the greater community about what we're doing
and our need for more community members that are interested in
participating. And so yeah, you can find us on our website.
Discord is the best place to just engage with the community. And
that link will be on our website as well.
So yeah, I hope to see you soon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I just want to say as well, like I know that I'm always reminded,
Richard Feynman had said that we are at the,
that there will be no more great scientists because of the orthodoxy that the
universities push. And we've seen that there's
been a few string theory, many say it's just a dead theory that nobody can get rid of.
They say science progresses one funeral at a time. I think decentralized science is sorely needed. And
I really, really hope that this is the beginning of something truly
phenomenal and world-changing it's not even about the money if you are great
if we can if we can get some if we can if we can fill our bags in the meantime
that's great but truly I think the way that you break break the rules and
progress forward is bunch of mavericks whovericks who would otherwise not be able to work in an orthodox
society and decentralized science is beautiful. I love what you're doing at Saidao and all the
related projects. I think this is the way forward. Yeah, just much love, much luck.
And the beautiful thing is today you can be a part of the group that's moving everything forward.
Go check out Saidao and thank you so much for joining the space today we'll be back next week thanks all
