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The Multichain Future: Still a Narrative or Finally a Reality? 🧩
Recorded: July 9, 2025 Duration: 1:22:10Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion delves into the evolving landscape of multi-chain ecosystems, highlighting trends in interoperability, user experience, and the growing demand for diverse blockchain solutions. Key insights reveal a shift from a narrative to a tangible reality, with industry leaders emphasizing the importance of simplifying access and enhancing usability for broader adoption.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Hey folks, sorry about that.
We're starting in about five minutes.
So yeah, hope this space is going to be fun and titillating and we all have a ton of fun. GMGM, everybody.
Hey, thank you for having us change now.
I've pinned to the top the post about the space right now, guys.
Make sure to engage with it.
And I'm going to pay and change now your
official announcement for the space as well so that everyone has it accessible to them at the
top of this space let's get it started we've got already on blockchain patrons on community joining
as well as a couple more people i'm gonna wait and let's keep it going hell yeah thank you so so much victor um i'm just looking through the speaker
requests um i'm gonna approve a couple more people and then uh we're gonna kick it off
uh i am honestly super excited about the space um i've got the agenda in front of me right now and there's going to be a
lot to discuss. I do think that there is going to be, I hope we don't have any arguments
over here because we do have representatives of several blockchains like Ton and Avalanche and Alithium on the space but just in case everyone
let's keep it civil let's keep it fun and more or less lighthearted just to remind everyone what
the space is going to be about it's going to be about the multi-chain future. Is it going to be a narrative or finally a reality?
Is it going to be all about the hype that's already passed
or is it still relevant right now?
And I just, before we kick it off,
I just want to mention the contest that we've got going on.
To participate in it, please join our telegram chat
I'm gonna have our SMM manager put the link in the comments to the space so to participate you
just need to send a screenshot of you being on the space and get a chance to win some awesome prizes
and get a chance to win some awesome prizes.
And yeah, I believe everybody is here right now.
Thank you so much to all the wonderful guests
who took the time to join the space and hang out
and discuss the multi-chain future.
So I would like to do a little bit of intros.
We've got Victor here, the representative of Tom blockchain.
We also got Jacob, who is DeFi Growth over at the Avalanche Foundation.
And we have also got someone from the Alifium Foundation.
So before we begin, I would like to kind of pass the mic to every single one of our speakers.
We also have Zena Cash, the CEO of our partner and our daughter Project Now Notes.
So I'm just going to pass the mic to every single one of you to do a little bit of like
to give everyone a bit of a chance to talk about your background and how you got into the
space and what you do in it right now. So, Victor, I think you're going to be the first one to speak.
So, go ahead, man. Yeah, I appreciate you for having us. My name is Victor. I'm Global Community
Lead at Tone Foundation and happy to be here to represent. I've been in crypto for quite a while
and at T ton already for
about one and a half year around this maybe a little bit less and it's been a phenomenal
journey i mean i'm a true believer at ton and how i started with ton i think will be most relevant
is that uh it's been winter i've been hosting spaces with my friend he's been every single
time telling me about ton and how easy it is to use. And eventually
I was like, you know what, bro, if you're telling me the truth, send me everything in DM on Telegram,
let me check. I've checked and ever since then, I mean, the rest is history. But I've been fascinated
the level of simplicity that it helps to achieve for crypto that never been seen before. With its
native integration toward the Telegram, the billion monthly active users it is crazy and happy to be here to answer questions and
provide more clarity and shine some lights on your questions guys thank you so much victor
this is wonderful we are changed now also um are big fans of ton We do believe that it has a wonderful future,
especially with regard to the integration of TAN
into the Telegram ecosystem.
So wonderful to have you on here.
And Alethium, you're going to be up next.
Hi, thank you very much for having me.
My name is Maud, and at Alethium,
I'm responsible for operation, but in our project that means
a lot of things, including ecosystem development and public speaking.
I've been with Alephium for four years and in crypto for now over eight years.
Just maybe a few words about Alephium because I think we're maybe a little bit less
known than the other earlier one here. So Alephium is a proof-of-work blockchain that was born from
kind of a simple question, can we preserve the decentralization and security of proof-of-work
and UTXO that become broad but still still delivered a fast, intuitive, web free experience that leverage all the potential that smart contract
were meant to unlock.
And so we try to really unite the best of both worlds,
decentralization, censorship, resistance, security of proof of work
with the speed and scalability and usability that you expect
from modern smart contract platform.
And I think, you know, the way we experience,
we've always believed in a multi-chain future.
So this is a strong conviction that we have,
and I'll be happy to dive into this.
And it's also something that we experience
on a day-to-day basis because we are not a non-EVM chain.
And so integrating with the rest of the blockchain space
always come with a little bit more challenge and hard work on our end
to make this happen.
So excited to share that experience with you guys.
Thank you for having me.
Awesome. Thank you so much, Mood.
And Jacob, you're up next.
Tell us what your role is in Avalabs
and a little bit of of background, just like everybody
else.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks for having me on.
So I'm on the DeFi ecosystem growth team here at Ava Labs, joined back in October of 2024.
And prior to that, I was at another layer one blockchain that focused on decentralizing
social media. And then prior to that, I was in the layer one blockchain that focused on decentralizing social media.
And then prior to that, I was in the U.S. Air Force.
So a bit of a unique background.
But yeah, when it comes to Avalanche, you know, I think this is a very fitting talk,
you know, chatting about the multi-chain future because we absolutely believe in a future that is multi-chain,
you know, in our architecture and infrastructure supports that with Avalanche L1s. You know, we believe anyone should be able to launch their own permission or permissionless customizable blockchain to fit whatever needs they have. So, you know,
I think we're really set in a good position for the future of being multi-chain, but I'm
sure we'll talk more about that. But again, thanks for having me on and looking forward to talking excellent thank you so much jacob we also have one more
speaker over here it's matul uh co-founder and cpto of openwallet.com so um after zina
the tool we actually have you here uh we're to give you a chance to speak as well.
But now, Zina, it's your turn.
Hello, everyone.
Yeah, my name is Zina.
And I am the CEO of NowNodes, a leading RPC provider.
Well, and even more so an infrastructural provider.
We are basically the basis for all this multi-chain future
that all the products here and all the projects in the crypto space have
and striving towards right now.
Really welcome all of you here and thank you for having me.
Thank you so much, Zina.
And, Mathul, it's now your turn.
Hi, this is Mathul.
I'm representing OpenWallet.
OpenWallet is obviously a multi-chain, self-custodial wallet.
We're built with a difference, so you can imagine it's slightly different than a MetaMask or a Phantom wallet.
So the wallet is set that's based on mpc and also use
shorter to now notes we also use a lot of their service their services are awesome other than that
really just excited about the whole topic we do support more than 20 plus chains a lot of other
chains coming as well john is something we've been supporting from last year and uh yeah a lot of other things back as well we also soon
launching debit cards and bunch of other things and I believe especially from a
wallet perspective lines are really getting blood between a fintech wallet
or a self custodial wallet so really excited about the spaces thanks
perfect again thank you so much to all the wonderful speakers that we've got here.
The space is going to go like this. I have a few questions that I've prepared. I'm going to invite
every, like every of the speakers to kind of give their perspective on it. If you have anything that you would like to add on,
please raise your hand and I will let you have the mic after the current speaker is done talking.
But without further ado,
multi-chain future or the past or the present,
chain future or the past or the present um this topic we came up with um after quite a lot of
consideration regarding blockchain mass adoption because right now we have a few powerful um l1s
like you've got your bitcoin you've got your ethereum you've got your litecoin monero so
on and so forth and we also have a bunch of l2s uh we've got your polygons we've got your
avalanches we've got your polka dots so on and so forth and with regard to crypto finally becoming widespread um it's kind of hard to pick um a blockchain of choice
for doing payments and doing remittances and we've been having uh quite a lot of sentiment in the
space lately on um cross-chain interoperability and supporting several chains at once,
allowing for bridging and allowing for swaps.
This is something that we also do over a change now.
But the problem here is that we've got many newcomers
coming into the space and mostly operating in stablecoins.
We've seen that especially in the last couple of years, into the space and mostly operating in stablecoins.
We've seen that especially in the last couple of years when more and more people are in need
of using stablecoins in various networks.
Most of them have been Ethereum and Tron,
but we've also seen especially on change now um a growing amount of
um exchanges into uh stable coins on the ton network as about as well as on the avalanche network and the problem here is that not a lot of services currently offer true multi-chain support for stablecoins because the most popular networks for stablecoins that most people use, as I already said, are going to be trx and eth but they all have their downsize tron is expensive
ethereum is a bit slow so um this is what we're going to be talking about and uh with regard to
that my first question for all of you guys is how has the idea of a multi-chain future evolved since 2020 and 2021?
Was it mostly narrative? How has it changed?
And Victor, I would like to give the mic to you first, and then we're gonna kind of go from the top to the bottom.
So what do you think yeah well i think since 2020 it's a very big step back uh to kind
of reassess what has happened but i think what we've seen with all the new integrations uh
between different protocols is that crypto is becoming more a multi-chain ecosystem that is not
relying as much anymore for the centralized entities
to move funds across.
And this is very crucial and beneficial to crypto at scale because we all want to pursue
further decentralization, access to our resources and control over them.
I'd say one of the biggest integrations that happened on T ton in the sense of allowing stable clients to be used
cross-chain as well is the layer zero and stargate bridge with their unified liquidity pools uh
standards and there's been besides stable coins that you could actually bridge from
majority of the networks that are implemented with it. You could also bridge assets from other networks,
let's say from Ethereum to Tone or from BNB to Tone
and have their own variation inside of this ecosystem.
I think this is very powerful
because it unlocks you a whole new set of capabilities.
And there's been a lot of integrations across the board,
a lot of bridges built in crypto.
And I think this is very, very helpful for the ecosystem.
And today it would take maybe a two minute, three minute time for someone to
breach their funds from let's say Ethereum to Ton or to Avalanche or to any
other ecosystem.
It's not anymore as complicated process as it used to be once and much faster and smarter
much faster and smoother indeed um because previously uh when you wanted to kind of move
stable coins from one chain to another uh you had to either for example go on to Tether's native bridge which was expensive and it was really slow
or you have to use specialized services like centralized exchanges.
ChangeNow also joined the stablecoin bridging business exactly in like 2020 2021 but right now the process has become
um a lot smoother and easier and we've seen uh more and more services that kind of support um
stable coins for the regular people so you've got your crypto cards, you've got your whatchamacallit,
you've got your instant exchanges, you've got your off ramps that are starting to support
more and more chains, but at the same time, there are their downsides. And Mood, what
do you have to say about that?
Yeah, I think, you know, if we go back to 2021,
the multi-chain was mainly a narrative, but today we see like,
the vision is really starting to materialize.
We're seeing real infrastructure, more bridge,
messaging layer, better tooling.
But there's another aspect to multi-chain that is also important.
And one of the biggest signs of progress is also a growing diversity of usable
chain where you are starting to have more and more chain with different
trade-off and strength.
This is why I'm super excited to be in this discussion with Don Avalanche.
I don't know if Nier joined in the end, because we all represent very different architecture,
which is exactly what you want in the multi-chain future, right?
We want multiple chain that are not copepaced of each other, but that each have their own
strength and different, again, different strengths.
And this is also a sign overall of industry maturity. We know our industry
will have matured when you have coexisting complementary solution. I think that on the
then interoperability side of things, there's definitely been a lot of progress.
The only perspective that I can give that maybe differs a bit is again, as a smaller
proof of work, non-EVM compatible chain, for us integration into interoperability layers is
extremely complicated because we have to get custom integration, right? And so that's something that
is that makes our job a little bit harder.
We found a way around it. We've built our own bridge to also bring stable coin into our ecosystem very early on.
So I think there's still a lot of progress to to happen
in the multi chain environment, especially when it comes to security and UX.
But if you look back at how the situation was in 2021, tremendous progress has been made.
Oh, I definitely agree. Currently, we more, it's like, you know,
when I was on the space, the aggregated space
with QuickSwap's founder and Bullion representatives,
and what I heard there was that right now we are kind of in the era of money
competing with each other so you've got all the different blockchains and all of the different
projects in this space constantly rivaling each other and trying to kind of get more audience on their side.
But right now with the concept of like interoperability
and the appearance of specialized bridges
and other infrastructure solutions that allow for the chains
to effectively like efficiently communicate with each other,
we are entering the era of cooperation and collaboration.
And I think it's very wonderful to watch.
But Jacob, what do you have to say about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think everyone's made some really good points.
And I think the reality is back in 2020, 2021, we simply didn't have the infrastructure in crypto to really
support kind of a multi-chain ecosystem. I think tribalism was at an all-time high back then because
someone would just kind of pick whatever chain they're going on and that's what they would stick
on. And it would just be very difficult to use bridges and to kind of transfer your money back and forth.
And, you know, we remember bridges were some of the biggest kind of vulnerabilities in crypto back in the day,
with a lot of hacks and security measures.
And, you know, it's just I remember myself trying to bridge during that time and just not feeling comfortable with the process. You know, you felt like you're kind of leading things up to chance.
And that's just not the case anymore. I think it's become incredibly easy to move
between different chains, you know, with native bridges and third party bridges and everything.
It feels like, you know, crypto is finally ready to kind of embrace multiple ecosystems. And now
we're seeing institutions get involved and they're willing to, you know, go multi-chain because they
feel comfortable with the infrastructure. So I think that's really kind of where we are today. We've
come a long way and the architecture and infrastructure, you know, on Avalanche and
on these, all these blockchains, you know, in this call and across crypto, you know,
it feels like we're finally kind of in the big leagues now and ready to
kind of embrace global capital markets, which is really exciting.
Most definitely. And Zina, did you have any other thoughts on the matter?
Well, yeah, when I thought about like the topic for the first time, I tried to look back to where when we started with ChangeNow, with NowPayments and with NowNotes.
And I think that from the very beginning, our goal and our focus was mostly on multichain.
We were always interested in adding new chains, adding new coins and tokens to our services
because we saw the interest towards
them even back then.
And actually, that's how NoNote was created in the first place because, like, I don't
know, Pauline, if you remember, but on ChangeNow, we are obviously interested in adding new chains
and it was extremely difficult in the beginning because
there were no providers that gave you support not only for bitcoin and ethereum but also to
the variety of other chains that were growing in popularity and uh the number of chains was also
growing so yeah uh this is what we focused on and to be honest even today i still see
like growing interest towards multi-chain and that's why like basically we do what we do like
there is a definite definite benefit uh for the companies coming to us because we can offer them support for several networks,
like enormous amount of networks at the same place at the same time.
Obviously, there is like a huge path ahead and we need to develop like more easier tools to use it because here like Moon I think mentioned that sometimes like adding a new
chain to a product would be like a difficult process and yeah we try to make it easier however
there is a long way to go uh in the future for that yep thank you Thank you, Zina. I mean, for sure. I do remember how NowNodes came to be. I actually was the one who started out the Twitter account for it, if I remember correctly. were created as a standalone infrastructure provider.
It was super difficult to find a worthwhile service
that would not only operate on Bitcoin, Ethereum,
and a bunch of ERC-20 tokens,
but it would offer widespread support
for other different L1s and a few emerging L2s.
So as someone who works for a wallet, I think a lot of people are going to be looking at you,
Matul, and other wallet builders, wallet creators, looking for multi-chain support,
because not a lot of wallets offer it as is so um do you think
that the future lies in multi-chain um at all yeah definitely think the future lies in multi-chain
I mean who would have thought oh it's I mean you would have tokenized stocks in 2025 you can trade
it pretty much 24 7. you are going to have real world assets
like real estate tokenized.
You have pretty much a lot of these companies
that we speak to,
they're looking to have embedded wallets
and a multi-chain future has made it possible.
At the same time, speaking mostly from a consumer perspective,
I do think they also come with their own unique set of problems.
For example, a lot of our people would ask,
all right, I have Ethereum wallet
and I can see the Ethereum address,
but I have, let's say, USDT on a certain chain,
but there's a certain service
which would accept it on a different chain.
So there's obviously that level of fragmentation that it comes up with probably the biggest one that we've seen is the gas fee
so you need native assets on all of these chains to pay for the gas fee so these are just some of
the real use cases or the problem areas that a multi-chain world would bring in. So I would definitely say this is,
all of this is not without any UX gotchas.
You always are going to have these things
which are going to act like natural deterrents
to a lot of people not using it.
Obviously we try our best to smooth out these rough edges.
For example, we're launching gasless transactions on solana
some of the communities in africa they're happily they're happy to take it and they are happy to
run their entire community and shops over solana but i would definitely say that while we have moved
forward and there's technologies like this xlr there islink. I was recently trying Polaris app and they do provide really good experience.
When we look at the success of a lot of these different things, we look at it from the lens of, do we have people in the wallet using these experiences?
And can they really move Bitcoin to a different layer too,
or a different chain entirely using a single click.
I'd say it's largely a solved problem.
If we specifically speak about the Ethereum chains,
I mean, the support for bridges, intents,
all of that is really, really good.
When it especially comes to, let's say,
other one, other prominent layer ones to other chains. I think a lot of work has to go into the smoothening the entire UX experience.
We're getting there.
We're probably a few years away maybe, but we're definitely getting there.
But at the same time, I would also give a huge shout out to all the centralized exchanges
operating within a regulatory space and then providing really good services because in some
cases going with the centralized exchange is just more predictable and nicer for the end users so i
believe um i'm pro multi-chain obviously and we have massive plans for supporting more chains
but it definitely comes with some natural questions from the end consumers. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much.
And I think
what kind of segues
that like this was a nice segue into
my next question,
which is going to be
what is holding multichain
as kind of a concept back? who is not um you know um a seasoned crypto person um price is going to be uh way ahead of speed
uh because oh you know when you're you have people who are trying to move money abroad
and don't have the or don't want to use the
traditional means they're currently available they are kind of going to stick to ethereum
because that is what is most uh like readily available uh chain for cheaper transactions with the compromise of them being fairly slow.
So this is just me throwing things in. But my next question is, what is still holding
multi-chain back today? Is it UX, fragmentation, security, or something deeper so uh Mithil already kind of
started answering this question but I am very interested in hearing what the other speakers
have to say so Victor um what's your take excuse me could you repeat the question once again uh of course no problem uh what's holding multi-chain
back today is it um ux fragmentation security or something deeper to be honest i think with
majority of the protocols that prove themselves over time security is not the major concern for the further development here.
I think that fragmentation is actually good for the market, but at the same time, it just slows
down the process. Fragmentation is good because when there are options and people competing in
businesses, trying different approaches, lowering fees, creating a better environment for its users,
it overall creates a more fair environment for its users, it overall creates
more fair environment for everyone in the market.
But then on another hand, it is harder for that to progress because there is a fragmentation
of attention as well.
And I think the education is another important step here and the simplicity, because if people
have to do more than just a couple clicks uh that's
already too complicated for them and we've seen how eventually at some point they drop so if
let's say bridging your funds involves 15 clicks after the 10 clicks what is going to be the
retainership of everyone that came into the portal and I think those processes just need to be improved and they are
improved over time. Today, it is a much easier experience to bridging anything and it's not
taking also long time to wait. I think one of the major reasons that is preventing people from trying
multi-chain experience where they could bridge the funds from one chain to another is the fact of them being scared of doing something wrong,
because they understand that they are responsible for their funds.
So I think as it becomes more and more simplified to explore the multichain
in the global scale and to bridge your funds,
the more trust will be formed for people initially to go and try to do that. And you see many choosing centralized exchanges still today.
And why are they doing that?
It's because they already got used to the process of sending funds to the centralized exchange
and from there sending elsewhere because they've done that.
So now to teach them to do that in a decentralized manner,
for them it needs to become
normalized. There needs to be enough content for them to consume and to get to the point that they
are not doing something wrong. I think of it more as a progression. Overall, we're definitely moving
toward the right direction and pretty fast if you ask me. Yeah, I totally agree. i think you made a really good point that we kind of um i mean with all due
respect to uh centralized exchanges but i think that um the overall centralized exchange experience needs to be left to people who mostly trade um that way it's going to let
sexes uh customize the trading experience more without you know um going on like resorting to
any compromises with regard to um ux for regular people uh for people who are like retail investors or people who just need
um crypto for cross-border payments um so on and so forth so yeah i do agree that we need
more educational content but i also think that there needs to be kind of like an infrastructure that would be more like that would cater to the little people more.
For example, like what Change Now is offering where you don't have to sign up.
The process is extremely straightforward.
forward so if you want to move between one chain to another you can do it in a few clicks and
So if you want to move between one chain to another, you can do it in a few clicks.
right now we're like this space is one of the ways that we're kind of spreading awareness
for people to kind of open themselves up to the crypto ecosystem at large and raising awareness about all the different concepts and maybe even news
in the space. But Mood, what's your take on the situation? Do you think that right now we're
lacking in terms of UX or do you think that PR has been kind of bad or do you think it's something entirely different?
I think I do agree with you that while education is definitely needed in the space,
I think it can't be the answer for infrastructure not being user-friendly.
There are still efforts to be made.
And I feel like on the interoperability layer, it has kind of its own trilemma to solve, which is a decentralization,
security and usability in this case. If you have a truly decentralized bridge, for example,
usually the user experience might not be as smooth. You have also sometimes waiting time.
People in our space, they kind of like things
to be instantaneous, which can be challenging.
And so I think we are definitely converging
toward a sweet spot between those three.
Like security, again, security decentralization
is usability.
I think we still have a little bit some way to go.
MeTool was touching on this about, for example, when you talk to bridge where
you need funds on the destination chain to be able to redeem and finish your bridging.
And he was mentioning gasless transaction as a potential solution.
And that's something, for example, at Alephium,
we've implemented in our bridge,
which is based on a fork of wormhole
because we are a little bit too small
for it to be integrated into the original one.
But this is something we've identified also as a pain point
and implemented a gasless transaction
so that the transaction when people bridge onto our chain We've identified also as a pain point and implemented a gasless transaction as well as
the transaction when people bridge onto our chain, it is automatically redeemed to the
user wallet.
But I do think across the space and definitely not only at the interoperability layer level,
we need better UX.
We need more education, but that's not sufficient.
We need to continue to improve there.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
And Jacob, what do you think?
Yeah, these are all really good points.
And I think at the end of the day, it really comes down to user
experience, right? Like, I think there's still a very small number of people who are able to,
you know, operate on chain and actually kind of use crypto to its full potential because there's
still such a huge learning curve involved. You know, I think everyone here would agree that
taking out a loan on a DeFi
protocol, you know, backed against your Bitcoin or other asset is incredibly faster and easier than
going to a bank and doing a traditional loan. But the reality is most people still go down that
route because it's what they're comfortable with. And it's what they're familiar with. And the idea
of, you know, coming on chain and interacting with multiple blockchains and different DeFi protocols is still kind of scary and, you know, unfamiliar to them.
So I think that's something that as an industry, we still have to work incredibly hard on.
It's making it easier to onboard into crypto, operate on, you know, different blockchains.
And the reality is, you know, Ichains and the reality is you know i think account
abstraction will be really important and so the end user eventually won't even know what blockchain
necessarily they're operating on and it'll just be a matter of whatever the easiest process is
and it's kind of the idea of you know there will be multiple blockchains out there but they'll all
feel like one blockchain um so i think that's kind of the vision that we're all working towards and hopefully we
get there as an industry.
And for Avalanche, we have a few features, our Avalanche bridge, our core wallet, these
different things that we're trying to make it easier to operate on multiple blockchains
and make it as easy as possible.
And I know everyone here is working hard to get to that future.
And I think that's kind of where we need to head as an industry.
Actually, thank you for mentioning account abstraction right now, because I do, like I've been meaning to start talking about it, that interoperability is not necessarily required to be seen to the user.
I know I kind of worded that in a way more complicated way
than it needed to be, but my point here is,
if we want to kind of make crypto more accessible to a wider audience.
It kind of needs to become a little bit less niche
and a thing for nerds,
but rather a way more simplified kind of machine
that would show a little bit less maybe
to the person using it so as to reduce the chance of user error.
So you have brought up an excellent point of account abstraction, chain abstraction.
And with regard to that, NowNodes works with a lot of wallets.
So Zina, what do you think is holding multi-chain back at the moment?
Yeah, I actually wanted to talk about this from the perspective of a B2B service.
Because, as you mentioned, we work with a lot of wallets and exchanges and so on.
And what I see is that, well, supporting multi-chain,
supporting multiple chains can be extremely difficult
because of all of these specific technicalities
belonging to multiple chains.
Obviously, if we talk about EVM-like chains,
that's fairly easy and kind of simple.
However, if we mention more chains, the technicalities is different.
I mean, different technicalities is what kind of requires a lot of hassle on the part of the wallet or service. So even like for us, when we maintain all these chains on NowNotes, we have to spend
over like 80% of our time only maintaining what we have. So we need to always maintain updates,
always maintain all these new technicalities. We need to be in constant contact with
directly with the representatives from the different blockchains we support. So
again, that's a lot of hassle and obviously on the part of it like a new
wallet or a new exchange this can be an extremely difficult part because you spend a lot just
on the maintenance.
And again, even coming back to our service, obviously now nodes offers you the API that
you can use to add more chains to your service however like despite the thing that we have this
one api the end points for each chains are different obviously and like in the better future
we would be able uh we as now notes and maybe is a market as a whole, we will be able to give you a unified interface.
Keeping all the technicalities, of course, however, giving the unified interface to the
service to new coming startups, new coming wallets and exchanges and give them something
simple that they can use easily to avoid all this hassle of maintenance.
I mean, for sure. I think that we should kind of, again, from the point of not a crypto nerd who finds pleasure in dealing with different chains and discussing
all the technicalities that come with each one I think we should leave that hassle to
them while at the same time keeping things more simple for the regular Joe again for the retail investor
for the little person in crypto but yeah I just wanted to mention that like
obviously there there will be people there will be developers and like
startups who love this hassle however like and again they can keep it but it
requires a lot of funds and a lot of money that some newer startups just can't have at the moment.
So it's not only about like, okay, let's keep it to some nerds and they will deal with that.
And we'll just be focusing on the UX and interfaces for general public.
the UX and interfaces for general public. It's also about like the money coming in, because again,
all this hassle costs really a lot of money. And we like if we work with businesses, even starting
businesses, we need to take like keep it in mind that they don't have these funds. And we need to
create the ecosystem for them like like the atmosphere for them,
where they can strive no matter the costs.
Oh, yeah, most definitely.
And Matul, as a wallet representative,
what's your take on multi-chain for the regular guy?
What do you think we need to kind of do uh to promote it further
yeah i think i'm just going to steal some of the points i must say that a lot of these points
mentioned by other speakers are really good i believe from experience i can say education
is important i mean it's definitely important to let people know you have a certain asset on a certain chain in order to move it around.
How would you move it?
Would you need some native assets like Ethereum on that chain?
If you need it, where can you get it?
Also if you'd like to, let's say, swap it out for something else.
So what I'm just trying to say, the common flavor is that people definitely need a lot
of handholding.
A lot of times people are not able to get help at all or they're just too shy to ask
or there's no one to ask in a lot of cases as well.
So education, a good customer support, I think it often gets looked over, is important.
Account abstraction was mentioned. I think we do have now really good
support on EVM chain for account abstraction. It just brings a very familiar user experience
to the users. For example, a lot of people we interact with, they only use stablecoins.
So if you're spending stablecoins, then you necessarily don't need to have Ethereum. Let's say you can spend, if you're sending stable coins, you can pay a small fraction of fees that goes to pay for the network fee.
I believe the delta between the user experience between, let's say, the regular financial world and the crypto world is huge at this moment.
And people definitely come in with a lot of expectations
and when they see a lot of these different chains while we do understand from a technical
technical perspective that what is the utility they definitely do not look at it from that
angle so for them it is just a lot of questions, a lot of fragmentation, even in their thinking.
So those are the things that they care about.
A lot of times when people are, for example, making a trade, a lot of, I know this is almost
like a pretty bold statement, but generally a lot of people or a lot of whales that we
interact with, they do not simply care about whether it's going to happen through a centralized exchange or a decentralized exchange
all that they care about is they have asset a to spend and they want asset b and they should get
it within let's say given an amount of time and they do care about the exchange rate as well
and as i mentioned before,
I believe gas fee is something which is definitely a killer
when it comes to user experience,
because most people definitely find it difficult
to wrap their heads around.
Another thing that I would definitely mention is,
imagine if you'd like to convert your,
let's just stick to EVM,
go from USDT on Ethereum to USDCc on base maybe if you go to a
centralized exchange you can simply do it in a single click imagine going to a decentralized
exchange and you'll have to connect your wallet and then give seven permissions just to do it
in most cases it works just fine but then there are cases where you could end up with the
intermediary asset as well so the delta is huge if that comes down and the user experience is nice
as i said people do not really care that much at this moment so and if the if they're getting good
rates and obviously transactions are final people would rather also gravitate
towards decentralized experiences,
multi-chain experiences as well.
But we definitely have some ground to cover
when it comes to multi-chain at this moment,
at least from a wallet and a user perspective.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for that
because I do think that it could do very well for a lot of chain representatives and chain foundations and decentralized exchanges at the same time to kind of let some of the arrogance that they kind of move forward with go.
Because we do need to make a few sacrifices to kind of make themselves less visible to the end user in order to kind of move the space at large forward.
If you know what I mean, and what I mean is, again,
if we're talking about a person who uses crypto out of necessity,
they don't necessarily need to kind of know their way around
all of the bases and tons and nears and ethereums of the world
what they need is to send money around fast and they need to do it in a cheap way
and i think that if the ux kind of makes it easier for people to,
like if you need all of the different chain denominations
to kind of take a backseat on the front end of all of the crypto and user applications,
then so be it.
And the competition in that way, like in that regard between all the different
chains is going to be strictly in terms of their uh throughput ability as well as gas price and uh
this actually segues pretty nicely into the next point that i wanted to discuss, and that is, have we focused too much on chain choice
and not enough on user outcomes?
And, for example, my opinion is that user outcomes,
if we want to achieve crypto mass adoptions,
are a lot more important than concentrating ourselves
on chain choice. But, Victor uh what's your take on it
I think uh you know there is truth to that and then for people that are completely outside of
crypto I'm just maybe looking to tap in uh for them this is a whole new universe and the starting point is still not as easy. It could take all the crypto at scale.
I think the reason why we've seen one of the fastest,
and in terms of growth launches of USDT last year happened on Tone,
it was the simplicity of use, as you've mentioned, the accessibility, the speed.
And I think the accessibility is a crucial point here because once the
telegram implemented USDT inside of its wallets directly in the telegram
user interface, the volume just started to exploding and people issued
more and more USDT.
And the reason for that was simple because it's as easy as sending a
text message
and within the application that people already have use and trust. And this is also going beyond
even just stable coins in this regard. It's a very similar story that happened on time with
Telegram NFT gifts because they are implemented into the user face. It's a couple clicks and it
works. Yet they are NFTss you can trade them on secondary
market some of them costing over ten thousand dollars at a floor price but to my point the
simplicity uh is one of the crucial elements here to attract those new users that maybe never tried
crypto before because as you mentioned someone that is here out of necessity because for them
it is nearly impossible to transfer money via the bank because the banking service is not accessible to them in the countries.
If it's the necessity, they will probably find the cheapest way to go and do that, right?
But if it's a user that generally wants to explore this technology, they will go for the easiest way to get started.
That's my opinion on this.
Yep, agreed completely. But as a non-EVML1 mod, what do you
think about that? So I think there's a different level into this. I think Jacob said it very well
when he spoke before. Like a truly multi-chain future, we get there when users
don't even need to know what chain they're on. And I think that that is a good measure of,
you know, kind of the direction and the objective. And I think there's a different level. I think at
the chain level, you know, we've most, you know, from a technical standpoint, we focused on the trilemma.
But in this trilemma, user experience isn't part of it.
And so I think at the chain level, even before talking about interoperability between chain, I do think user experience, whether we're talking about user of the chain or developers that build on top of the chain,
of the chain or developers that build on top of the chain, that user experience should be as
important as any other technical aspect or trilemma where any chain is trying to solve. And that should
be at the forefront. So there's this at the chain level. And I definitely think, again, that
it's a balance because while, yes, user care about simplicity and usability,
we should be careful that in our effort to address that, we just don't do a complete loop
and end up building basically the same system we're trying to get away from, that in the pursuit
of good user experience and accessibility,
we don't end up going back to centralized system
with intermediary and things like that.
Because it's very easy to, without realizing it,
slowly and slowly making compromises
and ending up building an infrastructure,
which is pretty similar to the one we were trying
to improve in the first place.
So I think there's a bit of balance, but definitely at every level,
users should come first, and we should reach a point where users don't have to choose
between security and decentralization for usability.
Yep, totally agreed.
I think decentralization, as I've talked on a lot of previous spaces, is a wonderful concept,
and I think that we should kind of strive to achieve it at some point.
But some startups and some companies, I'm not going to name any names because that wouldn't make a lot of sense, but I think they've kind of started playing decentralization way too hard.
And it has actually been a little bit more detrimental to the space at large. But, Jacob, what do you think? You've proposed the idea of chain abstraction and just not making the chain visible for any end user, especially if they don't want it to be. So do you have any continuation of that point?
Yeah, I think, you know, it's definitely a work in progress. And, you know, from Avalanche, we've to try to kind of address this and, you know, fit blockchain usage into the need of everyday people and, you know, various end users, I think the reality is you need customizable options. And so we have, you know,
multiple Avalanche L1s that, you know, any, essentially any project can spin up a new
blockchain to fit their needs. So we're seeing a lot of adoption on the gaming side, we're seeing
some DeFi focused L1s, we're seeing institutions come in, and even new, you know, blockchains like
Inversion Capital is an example of one that's kind of bringing private equity on chain and they're using Avalanche L wants to do so.
So I think, you know, as as we progress more and more as an industry, you know, we're going to continue to see new application uses for blockchains and new needs and all these different things. And I think, you know, customizing it to the need of the end users is the way forward.
And, you know, not kind of creating blockchains, you know, looking for a solution without any problems.
So I think that's kind of where we're headed in the future.
And so we're trying to prepare ourselves for that.
And with that being said, I do have to drop off here, but I really appreciate
you guys having me on. And it's been a great conversation with everyone. So thank you.
Thank you so much, Jacob. Go have a nice rest of your day. Thank you for being here.
Hope to see you in future spaces whenever you're available.
Thanks, everyone. Talk to you soon.
Bye-bye so Xena as someone who constantly deals
with a lot of different chains and you out of all people possibly know how it is the most so
do you think that we kind of need to simplify everything, even if it costs us a little bit of that decentralization experience?
Well, in terms of simplification, like, obviously, yes.
Like, we always talk about mass adoption and, like, working with Now Notes and previously working with
Now Payments, it was our main focus.
And mass adoption requires the simplicity because all these newcomers, they need to have a simple
way to enter the space.
However, talking about, again, from the B2B perspective, talking about
the experience of users regarding multi-chain, I need to say that, to be honest, in my personal
experience, on NowPayments and specifically on NowNotes as well, we were adding new chains,
not because, like, we were personally interested in some of them.
Obviously, we support a lot,
but, like, always, absolutely always,
the idea of adding a new chain
was something brought to us by our users.
So again, not users, but like clients, because I mostly focus on B2B.
But yeah, again, clients were the ones requesting all these new chains and their users, their end users were the ones requesting new tokens, new coins from them as well.
So from the very beginning, the whole multi-chain approach started because of the audience and
because of the user base who required the access to different tokens and coins. And yeah, of
course, they need simplicity, but we need to keep in mind that there are like
millions of people around the world supporting the chains that they love
and supporting and wanting them on different products. So again, yes, simplicity is a good thing.
Yes, I think we will evolve into something
as understandable to people as our current banking system.
However, we do so, basing our progression on what the end users want in the first place.
I mean, again, from the B2B perspective, yes, that was a really good take.
Because oftentimes when B2B services are integrating something, it is because the market dictated them to,
or their clients requested them
to kind of introduce new technology into the service.
So, yeah, but at the same time,
I think that we're kind of talking about a little bit
of like different demographics,
because you've got your nerds,
you've got your like chain maximalists
who kind of want their chain supported on everything and which is good.
At the same time when you have like retail investors who don't really have any idea about how many chains there are and there are a lot, you kind of need to keep them in mind as well.
But we've got a person from a wallet here.
So, what do you think?
Yeah, I can definitely give my opinion about a 360 degree experience
when it comes to simplifying everything.
While we do understand multiple chains are going to coexist,
it's always important to highlight what they are good at in
some cases especially for to the beginners the experience that we're trying to push forward and
a lot of these things are going to be launched in upcoming months is obviously we're talking
about crypto but the journey in most cases start with regular fiat money right so you could be
living in europe you could be living in Europe, you could be living in US or
any other country, right? So first thing that we're trying to do is, and this is going to be launched
in another two weeks, is we are giving everybody an on-chain bank account. And what do I mean by
that? So we are giving everybody an option to choose between, either you can get a euro account
with your own named IBAN, or you can get a US dollar account, or you can get a GBP account.
named iban or you can get a us dollar account or you can get a gbp account as soon as the money
hits that bank account it'll be automatically converted now what it gets converted into is
something that you decide so there's a interface in the wallet which lets you decide this decide
this now once you have the money already converted into crypto then obviously you can do a bunch of different things so you can to maximize your yield
you can participate in defi or you could buy gift cards or you could go to various mini stores to get
you know launch tickets or buy e-sims and things like that and i believe the last leg is how do you
spend money you could either spend it through the debit card or you could directly off ramp
it to your bank account.
Now this we believe is the playbook, at least in our heads, at least at this moment, that's
what we're moving forward with.
And in between, obviously there's a lot of other moving parts as well.
Abstraction when it comes to what you're spending so how do we make people spend if they have usdc
on let's say linear or chronos and they would like to make a payment run in a theorem how
would that the exchange the swap and the send would actually happen uh would we have an interface
happen uh would we have an interface with a chat gpt like interface or agentic ai where you can
actually deploy your extra capital to different d5 strategies so I believe a lot of automation
a lot of abstraction needs to happen but in our case I mean we're definitely started with on-chain
bank accounts I know I do understand KYc and a self-conservated
wallet does not go along that well but still when you buy crypto on an on-ramp then you have to do
kyc you have to do kyc every time you're touching touching regular money
so i believe those abstractions simplifications are they going to definitely going to help and
simplifications are definitely going to help. And different chains will exist. Interoperability
will still be really important. I know a lot of important work is happening, but until we see it
happening in one single click, like it almost happens in case of EVM, I think there's still
some time to go, but we're definitely to a really good trajectory at this moment oh very good argument about the banking system and how they have kind of mastered the
you know uh showing what's important to the end user and keeping all the technical details behind scenes. So that is, I think, whoever is going to kind of take what's best from the experience and
plant it into the Web3 world is going to kind of win in the, you know, mass adoption space race.
in the, you know, mass adoption space race.
And actually I am going to move on to the next question,
which kind of fits.
What projects in your opinion are kind of driving
the multi-chain revolution right now
or the multi-chain trend?
And Victor, as someone who is in touch with one of the most widely used
crypto wallets in the world right now uh aside from uh wallet and townspace do you know of any
other projects that are kind of pushing um multi-chain forward yes absolutely I think we've got a few examples uh and the integration with the
Stargate and layer zero is what allows for quite a lot to be built and executed as well
there are several projects that pursuing further implementation and bridging capabilities as well such as hot protocol for
example the telegram wallet itself uh so there is actually two wallets aside of telegram let
me elaborate a little bit there is one that in my understanding is more similar to the
centralized exchange approach and then there is one that is non-custodial from which you're going
to export uh your seed phrase as well and then important for example that is non-custodial from which you're going to export uh your seed phrase
as well and then important for example to the tonekeeper or my tone wallet any other option
um and the one that is existing inside of the telegram and operates as an exchange in a sense
this is also an incredible phenomenal opportunity that helps to streamline further the support for crypto. And I think this is one of the major steps.
With the OTP standard,
I think there is a lot of interesting moves.
So I'd say one of the major builders
that really creates a lot of impact,
especially as other builders than bridging assets,
is the layer zero, of course.
And we have a few examples of different projects
utilizing those protocols already today
baby doge from binance would be a great example who breached their token
and it's available via for example bloom meanpad for trading so i think it's fair to say is the
infrastructure continues to improve more and more massive players within uh ton uh ecosystem continue to implement
those and as i've mentioned bloom is one of the largest meme pads overall in crypto i think after
the pump fund uh and there's another one pocket five and they do look at the implementation of
other assets from other chains and then they closely work with the teams, the projects that do them
bridge their assets to turn to actually implement them as well and do the campaigns with them,
etc. We have several DeFi protocols that also did a similar thing, running campaigns with
the Baby Doge in particular, that one of the reasons. But I think this is one of the good
examples how the technology could be utilized and how other builders then scaling and using this infrastructure for their needs and wants.
And, you know, there is quite a lot of need, in my opinion, in the OTP standard with unified liquidity pools as Telegram Mini App ecosystem is only reliant on using Tone blockchain.
And so for that, if anyone would love to create an extra utility for the mini app coming from any other chain,
they actually can do that from launching the asset via the OTP standard, having it on Tone,
and then to be able to distribute or figure out what they do with it via the mini app too.
And I think those examples were yet to see.
But yeah, we've seen pretty good start and several breached assets.
And this is a great utilization of that.
And then how productively utilizing that, they've been providing extra pools, rewards, incentives for people engaging in sort of different activities with those assets
too so it's endless loop as the infrastructure creates itself how people adapt it and i think
this adaptation is the most phenomenal thing and the fact that it is possible today and
pretty quick and easy i'd say comparing to what it was many many years ago
many many years ago i mean yeah um and the town ecosystem like there is quite a lot of like i
used to see quite a lot of you know um ton chain dominance in the telegram app ecosystem so it's
super nice to kind of hear that you guys are starting to embrace the multi-chain vision so um
I always did we're we're actually very happy to see assets and projects from other chains
bridging to tone and also utilizing this incredible opportunity with this massive
distribution and telegram mini app ecosystem we would love to see many more and in fact
the many of the OG NFT brands, for example,
right now, have been entering some ecosystem, releasing NFT stickers on Tom, I think you may
have seen. And they're building their Telegram channels, and many of them are looking into the
Telegram mini apps as well. And we want them to come over here and explore different capabilities
as of releasing new assets, building new mechanics,
as well as implementing maybe already existing assets that they have on autochains. Both of
those scenarios are very well-companied and that's why we say that those implementations
for the cross-chain capabilities is very crucial for the further development of the
crypto ecosystem at scale. And let's take, for example, any like a major meme coin, as I've mentioned, baby Doge before,
but let's say Bonk will want to build a mini app with a fun game.
They could easily also bridge the token and then build a mini app utilizing now already the token inside of the Tone ecosystem.
And we will be happy to see them do that.
It's like, don't get me wrong.
And I'm sure that Bonk will acquire from that quite a lot of new user base in return as well,
which is very beneficial for us all, I think, as for existing brands and their assets
and as for Tom ecosystem too.
And yes, continue to expand.
Very beautiful time to be alive.
Oh, word. it definitely is. And Mood, what do you think? What are your favorites in terms of
driving the multi-chain experience forward?
I mean, I think that you've assembled a really nice setup in this space. I think everyone that is here and was here for Jacket
that left really at their own level
are doing exceptional work.
On the infrastructure side, I think, you know,
Wormhole is obviously a leader, Layer 0, XLR.
More recently, I think Hyperlane,
I see Hyperlane being more and more used around. And so their solution is very elegant
as well. At our own level on Alephium, we embrace a multi-chain future at different levels. The
first one, obviously, is we were really trying to propose with Alephium a chain that was very,
very different from a technical standpoint, of course, from the other
blockchain that were in the space by sticking to the proof of work UTXO model, but fully programmable
and fast, fast and scalable, of course. And this is something pretty unique because not many chain
continue to innovate on that side of thing and less and even less are doing so in trying
to bring smart contract and programmability.
Another aspect is for user experience, again, whether it is user or developer experiences
at the center.
And we've embraced multi-chain.
For us, it was, sorry, I have the word that comes to me in French, but it was obvious
that we had to embrace the multi-chain future.
We had very, very early on into our ecosystem, our bridge to Ethereum, Binance, more chain,
and we're looking to expand to more ecosystem, and we're always looking for better ways to
interact with the broader space.
This is something we're really committed to. Another aspect is also obviously
bringing real-world usage on-chain, whether it is through tokenization project, DeFi project.
And we're very excited to continue to contribute to the space with innovative solution and
to push a multi-chain future with everyone else that is here in the space doing this with us.
Awesome. Thank you so much.
And Zina,
what is your take?
Well, it will be
quite short, to be honest,
because my favorite
projects that are
striving towards multi-chain
are obviously our clients
because this is the
main reason why wallets and exchanges come to no-nodes in the first place it's because like we
offer support for multiple chains like over 100 right now and uh that's why they need us because
they want to go multi-chain because they need to add more uh so yeah i
would say all our clients oh word um and as a wallet tool what do you think who are your
favorites yeah sure so there's there's a really really long list but i believe i'm going to
be biased and name name a few that we work
work with on a daily basis so obviously when we started we started out as a evm wallet so
morales and alchemy they were the data providers so yeah they have pretty much done a really good
job mostly with evm chains but now they're expanding to other chains as well chain link
has done a remarkable job
connecting the off chain and on chain world most data feeds oracles things like that
xlr recently what we've seen is they've integrated a lot of chains so also osmosis uses xlr they've
done a good job defense the company on which our wallet is built on top of, they have also done a pretty good job.
All of these companies, I mean, whether you look at them from an infrastructure point or from a data point,
they're definitely moving the code movement even further.
And especially NowDon'ts as well, they've been working together for the last one year,
and I think we needed WebSocket support for Cosmos Chains, and then they were happy to come forward, help us out.
And most of the companies, I would say that they're really happy to help out as well.
So if you don't have anything or if you're looking to build something, do feel free to
reach out to all of these good companies.
all of these good companies they're in most cases they're happy to do a custom development for you
In most cases, they're happy to do a custom development for you as well.
as well so yeah these are some of the things that are coming to my mind but they're a lot more as
well yeah um thank you so much for also for the now note shout out um as for me it's going to be
um again all of the projects that the previous speakers have mentioned.
And also, I would like to kind of chill ourselves because Change Now has been kind of on the forefront of helping people interact with as many different chains as possible.
We've been doing that for quite a while now, and we are going to continue doing that.
We are working on making the experience even more smooth for retail investors
because they kind of are our main clients, both in terms of B2C and B2B, obviously. And yeah, with that said, I would like to thank every speaker who came in to the space.
We have been talking for almost an hour and a half. So I think that it would make sense to kind
of wrap it up right now. Again, to anyone listening, feel free to enter our Telegram chat and send us a screenshot of you being on the space while we still have the chance.
Because among those who do, we will be raffling off some prizes.
But yeah, thank you so much, Victor, Mod, Zina, and Matul, and Jacob, who already left.
Thank you so much for offering your takes on the multi-chain reality.
Because, to be honest, I do think that this is the reality right now already.
And yeah, I hope everyone has an excellent day ahead of them.
And we're going gonna be, again,
we're gonna be doing these spaces every Wednesday.
We have been doing them for a while now.
So feel free to tune in next week,
same time to chat about another new thing that we cook up.
And yeah, thank you so much again.
Thank you so much to everyone who's been listening. You guys are the best. Thank you so much again uh thank you so much to everyone who's been listening
you guys are the best thank you so much for the speakers you guys are the best test and yeah see
you next week bye bye thank you so much bye bye thank you for having us bye thank you have a good
day have a good day. Have a good day. Bye bye.
