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The Ordinal Show
Recorded: July 21, 2025 Duration: 1:51:52Space Recording
Short Summary
The Ordinals Show dives into the latest trends in the Bitcoin ecosystem, highlighting significant growth in ordinal collections, the strategic partnership with Kraken, and the upcoming launch of innovative projects like the Yonder collection. Discussions also touch on market behaviors, particularly the 'Monday phenomenon' that sees price increases in Bitcoin and ordinals.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Music Music Music
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Music We don't mind acknowledging the case of Sweetheart. We'll be right back. All right. Peace. good morning bitcoiners that's right you're here at The Ordinals Show!
Welcome back to our regulars. Hello to our new friends.
If this is your first time, The Ordinals Show is a live podcast hosted twice per week on X Spaces,
starting 10.30 on E.T. Monday mornings and 6.30 p.m. E.T. Wednesday nights,
going for multiple hours, covering various topics, all about building new cool shit on Bitcoin. And Ordinals are not just a new kind of MTM Bitcoin, but a massive movement of people
who care about growing Bitcoin's adoption
and bringing BTC to the masses.
More important than the protocol itself,
Ordinals is a cultural shift
that's attracting new developers and users,
incredible artists, and accelerating innovation.
I'm Trevor.BTC, managing partner
of the Bitcoin Frontier Fund
and co-founder of Pizza Ninjas.
And I'm here with my co-host,
the guy who'd rather skip his own show than skip leg day.
You can spell his name, but can you pronounce it? Is it Jan, Jan, or Yan? Nobody knows.
Anyway, he's the CSO at X-Verse and my man with the plan and the king of BGC, Sparta Leonidas.
All right, and I was at the history expert and co-founder of Org.io.
And today on this stage, we're joined by Shin Dogfather, NoFace,
and many more cool people who come to today's show, guys.
So I am super excited to be here.
I'm glad that you are all here with us.
I have pinned a tweet to the top, letting everyone know that we're live.
Please take a second, look at the post at the top, give it a like, give it a retweet,
show us some love for the algorithms and welcome more people into the space.
Also, smash that purple button in the bottom right-hand corner with your comments and questions.
Throw some GM and LG posts in there.
We'll read your questions about the show.
Don't forget to follow the Bitcoin Ordinal Show on X at The Ordinal Show.
Subscribe to our sub-sac newsletter link in bio.
We post weekly recaps in the newsletter and RCP links for future shows,
as well as the condensed version of this show on Apple and Spotify podcasts,
so you never miss what's happening on the leading edge of Bitcoin.
And with that, I'm going to turn to lead Nidus to introduce today's show.
Yo, what's up, guys?
I'm kind of noticing this trend.
Like, the weekend happens and there's like a little dip.
And then all of a sudden on Monday, just like, you can kind of see the energy just come flying back.
I don't know.
Like, I'm wanting to
better understand like that phenomenon trevor because i've seen it with bitcoin but i mean
it's definitely happening with ordinals and runes now like i'm just especially looking at like the
top ordinals collection so i'll just kind of uh read down the line here so uh taproot wizards up 30.3 percent on the day node monkeys up 21 percent puppets up 22 percent
max ordinal max is are 19 percent uh quantum cats 17 percent adderels 93 percent early birds brc 2.0
28 runestone 0.4 percent only a little up uh bitcoin pununks, 14.8%. Pizza Ninjas, 34.1%. So those are the top 10
ordinal collections by volume over just the past 24 hours. And if you zoomed out over a week,
there's even some bigger gains there. So yeah, bottom line, what's going on? Why is there this
Monday phenomenon? It's not just a
made-up thing there's something very real here and then i want to dig into more of uh
some things around this but yeah trevor like why why do we think the monday thing happens
um i think there's like there's a variety of reasons i mean it could be um sort of a confirmation
bias on our end you know like we notice it more on Monday.
Psychologically speaking, we start our week.
You know, there's a people's attention peaks on Monday morning.
So you're going to remember what happens on Monday just naturally more often.
But I also think it has to do with, you know, the market opening, the legacy finance, you know, trading market opening, stock market opening Monday mornings,
and there being usually some delayed energy around deployment of like liquidity or capital.
And so you'll just see that that Bitcoin and other assets in the crypto space are also correlated with the broader stock market. So, you know, if there's liquidity and people are going into stocks on a Monday morning, then, you know, they're going to see some correlations give a bump to the other assets, including crypto.
In addition, you know, you kind of see this actually as well with just the overall space.
Like when Bitcoin pumps, it doesn't mean that everything else is going to pump the same amount, but you will see movement on everything when you see Bitcoin go up just because all these assets are interrelated.
And so, for example, like if you have a Bitcoin Ethereum pair, for example, right, and the USD value of Bitcoin goes up,
then the USD value of Ethereum is going to go up because it's paired to Bitcoin in an exchange, for example. So I think those are some of the reasons why you just see it Monday mornings,
you have this effect that happens.
Yeah, it's just interesting to me.
Yeah, like we're basically,
you know, ordinals, I think,
are at this moment where,
I mean, look, it was a tough year,
like basically just the last 12 months,
very tough, just every single collection, basically without exception, just kind of trickling down.
And I think we bounced off the bottom, it looks like.
I mean, it's still, I'll encourage people and share the same thing I shared last week, which was, you know, don't, there's this
default inclination to feel like you've missed the wave. Oh my gosh. It's, it went up 30% last
week and now it went up 30% today and I've missed the wave. And it's like, just zoom out on all
these charts. The asymmetric upside here is just still insane. Um, yes, some collections have
doubled in the past two weeks and that's awesome but to
get back to all-time highs they like we got to like 10 or 20x from here so um i'm just looking
at like yans noon birds are worth more than every ordinal's collection but like we've got a way uh
no oh yeah i don't know why what are moonbirds at right now they're pumping man I don't know why. What are Moonbirds at right now? They're pumping, man. I don't even know.
Like, Jan has out-traded us all.
Guys, you know, I told you guys Moonbirds are going to come back.
You're right.
You're right.
I have a question.
Leo, I actually have an answer for you.
The reason why we see the dip on the weekend.
Now, the second you said that, I was like, oh, dude, two and a half years ago in the last bull run.
Right. This phenomenon happened every weekend. It was so easy to sell on Friday.
And then the price would go down. You buy Sunday night. Price goes up Monday morning because everyone's getting up.
by Sunday night, price goes up Monday morning because everyone's getting up.
So there's a lot of rallying going on right now.
So we're going to see this the entire time, dude.
So just be careful on those weekends if you're holding big bags.
It's good to DCA before the weekend and then DCA back in on Sunday
when you're hitting the low, and then it's going to go to the high.
You know what I mean?
Or Saturday night, whatever the pico bottom is for the weekend.
Yeah, love that.
I mean, honestly, it's tempting to just set up a bot that does that trade every weekend
because, I mean, it's so real.
I feel like I'm...
Do it, dude.
Do it.
It just seems like a great trade.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm just calling it out.
Okay, so I'm looking at CoinGecko's.
And CoinGecko actually has a really nice...
I use CoinMarketCap in general for fungible tokens.
But for NFT comparison, cross-chain, CoinGecko has a really nice kind of market cap-based NFT view.
Whereas in NFTs, people are mostly looking at things based on volume.
I'm just looking at all chains here.
So we've got CryptoPunks at $1.8 billion, PudgyPenguins at $560 million, BoredApes $500
million, Chromysquiggles $220 million, Autoglyphs $170 million, Mutant Apes, 145. Little Pudgies, 145.
Fidenza's, 130.
Maledi's, 107.
Azuki, 91.
Ringers, 80.
Mad Lads, 72.
Moonbird, 66.
Yeah, Sandbox, 63.
Like, what the hell?
Like, we, you know, yeah, I don't know.
Like, if Ordinals actually, this is not a comeback.
Like, this is the very inkling start of a comeback.
If Ordinals actually have a comeback,
I see us 10xing just to match a bunch of the other NFTs.
Like, if you guys remember this chart at, like, peak April 2024,
it was, like, CryptoPunks, Runestone, NodeMonkey, BoredApe, BitcoinPup. We were mixed
in at the top there. Yeah, I think what's really happening is like NFTs as a whole are having a
comeback. I'm just looking at this chart. It's basically green all the way around like i mean these ringers are up you know 96 today
like there's just craziness going on in fts right the fact i think the fact that moonbirds are
pumping is like the signal to me like like moonbirds are up 180 this week you know you
know what the signal always is to me leo um for these for these bull runs for
nfts it's the crypto punks um three months ago the crypto punks started making a bunch of sales
and you know previous to that i was telling all my friends i said look dude we're in a super meme
coin cycle right now and people thought i was crazy about this but this is what happens every
year there's usually a three to four month duration of the meme coin cycle but this year it happened to be like eight months and we're still going right so
we never really saw um the cycle shift like this before like usually it's like a clean shift over
it would be like meme coin season nft season meme coin season nft season but this year it's been
meme coin season and now we're kind of like merging into nft season
and people are staying focused on both things which i think is fucking bullish dude like i
don't even like using that word but i think it's really really bullish that now we have community
on the meme coin side and we have community on nft sides and people can separate their bags
and they're not gonna like sell their meme coins for this and you know what i mean like there's
there's a little bit of separation which is good for the market i think
yeah no i feel you i feel you i look i'm just i'm just calling out that like
i just think yeah like you can kind of just look at this page and starting it like
you know bitcoin has spots ordinals hasdinals has 17, the 18th spot, the 20th spot, 28th spot.
I just feel like, yeah, the upside here is very, very high.
Betting on that cohort of ordinals to basically rise these ranks again,
if there is an ordinals like true comeback of craziness which i
think you know makes sense to have one time before the end of the cycle would make a lot of sense
um things could be really interesting i'm just i'm just call i'm calling out that uh
yeah i don't want to hear people worried about top like yeah i don't know it's like just i'm
just calling out like we've been psyoped, I feel like somewhat by ourselves,
to think we, like, deserve, like, you know, these, like, lower market caps and fitting
in right behind Solana and the order of things.
Guys, like, literally just a year ago, we were basically number one for NFTs by, like,
almost all metrics, including, like, top five collections.
We had more than Ethereum.
Like, let's go back to number
one okay and i want to do the same thing with meme coins as well um dog father do you have any
interesting analytics for us this morning yeah analytics says uh it will go higher no i'm just
kidding you know nobody knows but uh it's obvious that ordnance are a bit lagging behind the ETH NFTs.
So first we saw, let's say, this 10 million sweep in CryptoPunks.
And of course, then people look around.
So which sectors haven't moved much?
They look at ordinars.
They were like, what the heck?
They're so cheap now because they haven't checked for a while, right? And if you look at the volumes, I mean, still, you don't need much.
You don't see much volume except, you know, Taproot Wizards that saw some volume.
But other than that, we talk about, you know, compared to the top ETH collections, there's not that much volume yet.
So the floor is super thin. If the same volume flows in for a few more days, then you see a nice floor price increases.
So we're still not in the focus yet. So if you talk about ordnance, people are still like,
wait, they're still ordnance.
So yeah, if all season and FT season continue
and people look at undervalued segments,
they will for sure look at blue chip ordnance.
So yeah, Trevor, for Pizza Ninjas,
that will be fun to have the new supply hitting the market.
Great timing, waiting a bit, and now 100% on all these ordinal floors, and then you can get out.
Yeah, I agree with you, dogfather.
You know what I'm excited about, too?
We haven't really touched on this, is 101 art on ordinals.
I think that's going to have a huge fucking movement.
You know, as an artist like i see
this happening um we're lagging behind ethereum's kind of history like 2021 ethereum they had that
big big bull run one of the reasons why people looked at ethereum and even i looked at ethereum
at this point in 2020 i believe that's when i signed up for foundation and all that was because i was seeing all these x copy sales on the news and that was like my introduction into uh you know um minting art on chain um even
though i've been an artist my whole life it was like my introduction i i was in crypto in 2012
on bitcoin but the tech just wasn't there for that you know so it was interesting to see that
in 2020 but yeah those big sales actually shifted eyes and brought a lot of liquidity into the
blockchain technology and all in all cryptos actually that was a lot of people's introduction
so hopefully we can get that again um because it'd be sick yeah i mean look let's let's see how this plays out but all i know is just like
even a 10x right like i think people can remember i think node monkeys hit 0.8
uh puppets were probably like half that like even a 10x would not be at those right like uh
yeah i just yeah I don't know.
Like, for people listening, and it's probably just mostly Ordinal's people listening this morning.
Yeah, like, the upside is pretty crazy.
If we do have a comeback, the upside is absolutely nuts.
And I'm calling out how crazy that is.
Like, it's not like we're just back at parity with ETH's stuff and going up with ETH.
Like, we have, like, just to match ETH,
just to match Jan's Moonbirds, everything full sense.
And I think that's super bullish.
Like, I think that's really bullish.
Bro, I'm telling you, like, if Ordnose cannot outperform my Moonbirds back,
That's what I'm saying, Jan.
We cannot be, like, too excited.
We're cooked, bro.
We're cooked, guys. Like, be like too we're cooked right we're good guys like you know
we're literally cooked and we should pack it up and and go build on avalanche i guess we got it
you know because i think we got it because otherwise like you know i am i'm i'm you know
don't tell me that like you know moonbirds are gonna be my best trade of uh i mean yeah moonbirds were your best trade they've literally gone up
3x since last the like last show you know the good thing the good thing about the good thing
about moonbirds i will tell you this okay the good thing about moonbirds is that i was buying
them when eath was like one thousand dollars per per eath you know so if moonbirds go to at least
like four eath which i think is possible then i'm
gonna i'm gonna be in green you know in usd value so so that's that's not bad you know i'm gonna
give a call out like shout out to the eath people are kind of psyop too i feel like
you gotta remember like everybody's acting like it's unprecedented that ETH just hit $3,700.
ETH was at $4,100 just a year ago during the bear market.
Like, what are these people so excited about?
Like, I'm seeing screenshots like, since my first buy back in 2021,
I'm back in the positive with ETH.
Everybody's forgetting that ETH pumped the $4,100 12 months ago.
It should be like $8,000 based on...
Trevor, exactly, dude.
It's like, look, I'm happy for you that it's going up,
but it's like, yeah, I don't know.
We're at 180% the last all-time high, right?
Something around there.
It went from 69K to 120K.
But ETH is still not past the all-time high yet.
You need to look at like inflation adjusted all-time highs.
And ETH is like at half the way.
It's like.
I mean, it just literally just comes down to competition.
I mean.
100%.
It's because Bitcoin doesn't have any competition because it went for
being the best at one thing
and that one thing happened to be
the most important use case
and ETH is amazing
but now there's a ton of other competition
coming from
Solana and even its own layer 2s
and even Bitcoin L2s
Bitcoin L2s are
like Ethereum is being attacked from two sides the Solana high speed chains and then and even Bitcoin L2s, right? Bitcoin L2s are like,
Ethereum is being attacked from two sides.
The Solana high-speed chains
and then the Bitcoin L2s.
Right.
The Solana thing is interesting
because they have this weird dynamic
where like the price looks like
you're below the 2021 mania, right?
Like the Solana's price is still well
under the all-time high there.
But the reality is if you
click the market cap tab solana's like doing way better than it did in 2021 it's way more of a
phenomenon but it's because basically the token unlocks the supplies increased a lot um but yeah
like there's no question like solana you really have to look at market caps to realistically
analyze like how big something is even if the price hasn't changed.
And Solana is twice as big as it was during the last cycle.
Bitcoin is twice as big as it was last cycle.
Ethereum is half the size it was last cycle.
I'll tell you one thing that Solana did well, actually, during the bear.
Raj and Toli, they made a bunch of trips to Dubai and the Emirates.
made a bunch of trips to Dubai and the Emirates.
And the second they did that,
the price of Solana went from that weekend
where all the Emirati billionaires bought Solana
because they had meetings with them.
The price went from like 20 bucks to like $45
in like a day and a half.
So that's a sign in itself.
I don't know about Ethereum.
Like I'm not seeing Vitalik meeting up
with Dubai billionaire, trillionaire people.
So maybe that's the thing.
It's the connections, the building within the bear market, all of that matters, really.
And Solana never stopped.
The founders just kept going, dude.
So, I mean, that might be part of it.
Yeah, I don't know.
Vitalik's doing all sorts of restructuring and stuff, but I kind of do get the vibe that he's not taking business meetings with hedge funds that might place a half billion dollars into Ethereum. It's definitely true that just like doing the tour in like conference rooms for like a couple months and just like hitting hundreds of conference rooms and just pitching to people.
A few of those people will end up putting a lot of money into your into your thing probably.
So maybe there needs to be like the Ethereum hedge fund division or something.
Do you think Ethereum becomes like Yahoo in the future?
Like, you know what I mean?
Look, I don't want to get quoted here saying stuff like that.
I think Ethereum has a risk of becoming Yahoo.
I'm not saying it does become Yahoo.
I'm saying it has a risk of it if it doesn't basically pick a lane and specialize, like Trevor was saying like bitcoin like you just can't compete with the bitcoin blockchain for decentralization
for security for longevity for really just like global brand recognition it's the first blockchain
it's the toshi nakamoto's blockchain you know there's just so much there where it's like nobody
nobody has to worry about bitcoin being around in 10 or 20 years, right? You do have to literally worry about that for every other blockchain, like full stop.
And Solana said, okay, we're going to do what Ethereum did, which was like try to be more scalable and more programmable than Bitcoin, except we're not going to try to compete with the narrative of ultrasound money and like trying to flip Bitcoin. We're just going to do what they did just way, way better and faster and cheaper.
And they didn't.
That's literally what they went and did.
And they didn't optimize for settlement and decentralization and security, but they optimized
for the other stuff.
And it turned out that like that was a very useful thing.
And arguably Ethereum, like Ethereum, in in my opinion still has way better like ip
and like network effects than solana to this day like just the it's like you can kind of feel this
stuff with xrp just the latent like multi-cycle it's it's ingrained in our brains somehow and
thus it's valuable ethereum has that that's still much stronger than solana there's like more ethereum holders the thing's bigger but you've got this uh kind of issue where it's just gotten slow
and they like look if yeah if you're trying to compete with all these defy use cases
sending people to these l2s i just i don't necessarily think is probably the long-term best answer for Ethereum.
I think Ethereum would be in a very different position right now.
I think Ethereum would be at $8,000 right now if last cycle Ethereum had said,
we're going to stop trying to be so competitive with Bitcoin,
but we're going to just absolutely dominate and win meme coins and NFTs and GameFi and all these things.
And we're going to make the L1 maybe not quite as fast as Solana,
but we're going to work on making it 10x faster on the L1, 20x faster, 30x faster.
I think it would go a really, really long way.
And I think they've gotten themselves in a tough position with just going all in on the L2s,
which has just not accrued value to the L1.
I mean, I think that's the reality.
Like, I think, I don't think, like, I don't necessarily know if, like,
Robin Hood building their L2 having to happen to be secured by the L1 makes
ETH more valuable.
I just, I'm not sure.
I need to be proven wrong there.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
But, yeah, the whole thing of Jan making the best trade of the week.
I mean, look, I give flowers where they're due.
And, you know, Jan comes on this show every week
and talks about his moonbirds.
And even though it's the Ordinal show.
Oh, my God.
This guy is lying's lying and he talks
about it every week and i'm gonna give flowers where they do he did well this week with this
trade man i wish i i was a trader and i actually just did a trade for a week i've been holding
these motherfuckers for like three years more than three years now I guess so man yeah but
you're almost like I deserve some recovery you're gonna be in the green soon right I mean as I said
like in the USD value probably if if they continue going up if let's say I think the four ETH if the
four ETH floor is there then in USD, based on the current value of ETH,
I think I will be back in the green. But in terms of ETH, not yet, man. I spent way more than 4 ETH
on one Moonbird back in the days. Oh, shit. Okay, so you spent 4 ETH, but maybe ETH was a little lower?
Yeah, ETH was much lower. I don't remember exactly I remember I go to your wallet and find the purchase on OpenSea
tell us the USD price I want to I've been following this shit for two years
because you keep bringing it up I really, let me check. Let me check. I really don't even remember, you know, where I have it.
Fuck, I need to find it.
Okay, let me check.
I need some time, man.
Okay.
Okay, very cool.
All right.
So I think it's just looking at the top ten ordinals.
Two of them, I believe it's Adderall's and Early Bird's BRC 2.0
are actually both pre-BRC 2.0 collections, FYI for people.
So that's like a little trend I believe that's happening
where they're kind of doing their pre-runes thing, I guess,
or something along these lines.
I hope I'm right about the Adderall's when I said that.
But I believe that's what's happening there.
Okay, yeah, good, Jen.
I'm glad I'm not totally out of touch with the trenches.
Speaking of the trenches, I've said this before.
Ordinals are fully back when you have mints happening.
When you have people coming up here excited to share their mint
excited to mint a collection um we got a handful of launch pads ready to do mints i think like
it's just a bit a big part of the whole nft thing working is having people excited to go mint they
don't know what they're gonna get you you know mint and then you you know some people get rares
sharing that i think it's
like something that meme coins don't have that's like really fun about nfts it's like opening a
pokemon pack of cards we need to bring we need to bring that back we need to bring that back
pokemon no face exactly i'm right here with the new project that is pokemon orientated i don't
know man like you're talking about me dude talking
about i mean look bring back the mince make mincing ordinal collection school again you know
we're doing we're doing that right now dude like literally we're in wave two of the peak is like uh
dropped the last wave last week sold out pretty fucking quick where do you drop on um so so magic
eden we're on magic eden um and basically for gen one uh we're doing otc over
over the over the counter but allowing people to pick uh from from the 100 supply they're all one
of ones and uh so gen two will be all on magic eating's launchpad and gen three and so on and
so forth but gen one is special and i'm hand curating
pretty much everyone because i want to make it a super group of just like the fucking best minds
in bitcoin all the people that i've met at all these conferences and stuff like snoop toshi like
a lot of a lot of people we got a lot a lot of builders and a lot of very very smart people
involved already and i'm very grateful actually so yeah awesome man awesome
i want to go over to shin we're gonna we you know we used to have farmer joe up here to be our chief
degen correspondent but we might we might be passing the torch to a new uh new host of this
segment his name is shin and shin what is like the most degenerate exciting
thing going on in bitcoin right now that has has you excited or has has uh people in group chats
are with excited people want to know like what's the we can't just be bidding the the stuff from
like the last year that like is a year old you know i think it's exciting to have obviously like lots of dope
runes lots of top ordinals you know collections and stuff from you know great ip from kind of the
last run is there anything new going on like do you see anything interesting any inkling of maybe
ordinals minting coming back like is there going to be a 10k pfp ordinals that meant anytime soon like what do we think is going to happen here yo yo uh thanks for having me uh so yeah i mean
there's a lot of things going on i would say we had alkanes meta now we're in this previous
c 2.0 meta which is uh getting some attention volume um then i mean in general I think the creativity is still lacking uh we had alchemist
which was pretty inciting exciting in terms of uh the mint since it was like this uh randomized
mint with how many tokens you can get per account um now I think if you check mempool right now
people are inscribing again once again pun, Punks on this pre-BRC 2.0 meta.
Wait, are you kidding me?
No, I'm not.
Just check Mempool.
Hang on, hang on.
Explain this, explain this.
They're doing it as Ordinals?
Yes, it's just Ordinals.
I don't get it.
I get it if you do it on BRC 2.0.
So I guess the meta playbook for these new collections like adderalls and brc 2.0 or
early birds is launch an ordinance collection uh work with best in slots to get a stake slot so if
you get the stake slots you can uh get your holder stake the ordinals in into the staking section and
then after let's say when brc 2.0 releases on August 14th you
will get an airdrop of the beer of the actual BRC 2.0 shitcoin token I guess that's the
playbook right now and now somebody decided to once again do a punks collection uh and
everybody's inscribing like pf pvp wise uh punks collections and one day you will be able to stake those and get a brc 2.0
shitcoin token connected to these punks derivatives once again i mean that's like the the agents are
not super creative on this kind to be honest uh i think we will get a lot of creativity soon though
but right now it's like okay we we go from one tech meta to the next tech meta uh we we work for our old
bags in terms of ordinals and runes um but yeah not much creativity going on but i think we are
we're going there in a better direction and other than that what else was happening in the decent
trenches yeah i think that's it i mean i think that's a good conclusion. Do you think there's room for like a 10k PFP ordinals meant to do well right now?
Or are we not ready for that?
I think it all depends on the creativity.
We had Bitcoin Weirdos, which did a pretty nice 10k free mint.
But the thing with Weirdos was they really worked a lot for this so they had the gen one with uh
fuck the world and it was like eight months pretty dead in terms of volume but there was the the
community members tried their best and then the 10k took like 40 days to mint out and I think
this was our first chance to have this new big uh 10k collection and I mean they're still in in like pretty good on
magic in terms of volume but yeah I don't know if we will have this Goblin Town moment uh probably
but it all depends on creativity I think Bitcoin people should stop with derivatives as soon as
possible especially like the puppets derivatives I think we had enough. And I think we have so much creativity going on
that we should have something new.
And when it happens, and if it happens,
then I think we will have the 10k.
I mean, there's Bitcoin Wizards, right?
But I mean, this will be connected to the token.
So, Shin, bro, I have a question.
So, do you remember this collection called morties
yes yeah never never happened yet uh they're pretty yeah so i was i was quite excited about
it because i like the art i feel like it's pretty unique even though it is kind of a i wouldn't say
it's a derivative but like it's heavily inspired by obviously, you know,
mil ladies and even like the base angels and stuff like that.
But at least the traits and everything, they seem that they spend a lot of fucking time on doing it.
They even were in my DMs and they were telling me three times how they're going to launch it.
It's going to be free mint and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So I kind of felt like, hey, this could be actually pretty interesting.
I think this could cook.
But then, man, they disappeared and I haven't heard from them since.
So do you think it's dead?
Do you think it's happening?
They're just waiting for a better timing.
Like, do you have any alpha on that?
So, I mean, it's that in terms of them not being active.
I think if they come back,
it will get huge engagement again
because like you said, the artist is kind of derivative but still super creative and it looks pretty clean and i i
can see it being a very good pfp for many people um but the thing is uh so as far as i know the
founder behind it he put a lot of money into the amorti uh runes token token by Casey so that's why he created the collection in terms of
hoping to get his runes bags back up which is a pretty good approach to be honest especially if
they keep on doing the promise of the freemans which I don't know maybe maybe that's the problem
maybe they don't want to have a freeman anymore I don't know because their the engagement is
pretty good now um but then I also know there are like Eve people behind
it so who knows when they will come back they're like azuki whales um maybe one day they will
decide okay now it's a good time to launch Marty's uh I think this is a big one like you said and a
pretty exciting one because I think many people are waiting for it the white lists are kind of
all done I think there's no collaboration anymore so i don't know
when they're going to launch and how they're going to launch to be honest yeah it would be great man
i was i was just personally excited about it i mean we also did some giveaway of whitelists with
them but in general i was excited because it was free mint right i was like hey this is pretty
interesting if it can be free mint and if it's even like as you said targeted towards
the holders of memento morty or what is that um then uh you know again i i liked it i don't know
the team behind it you know like i am i'm not even i didn't even know that they're actually like
you know you said that they're azuki whales i didn't know that i just kind of felt like you
know that could be an interesting collection but but then it kind of disappeared and uh i haven't heard from them
probably for like four months now so uh who knows maybe it's coming back maybe not but something
like that would be really nice like if we could have like a freeman collection something that
celebrates the the builders on bitcoin meaning that, meaning that maybe if you hold certain
runes, you're going to get potentially a preferential whitelist or stuff like that.
I think that could definitely spark some excitement in the ecosystem.
So it would be really cool if we see that.
I mean, one massive mint that I know that probably feels like it would be one of the bigger mints of this kind of new wave of attention would be the Bitcoin Wizards.
I think you just mentioned it, Shen.
I have no idea when they plan on doing it.
I think they said they were going to do it a couple of months ago.
I don't know why they didn't.
I think there was an update.
Really?
Yeah, there was an update.
I think in Septemberember is it september
i don't know maybe somebody can wait but i think it's you're not last september
no no no this september oh they think they're gonna launch the september
yeah as far as i know there was some update in the discord uh yeah this because the submissions
are pretty much done uh i think the goal is just to
they they're not gonna launch it before probably a tier one listing you know with the token um
maybe but i think it's it's this year for i mean that's the goal this year okay gotcha very cool
yeah um because that you know that's obviously not a derivative. That's real IP that, uh, I think would be pretty, pretty bad-ass.
And I kind of dig the way they're like doing the, uh, you know, everybody create their
own.
I think it's like pretty, pretty novel.
The only thing is like, I hope they don't charge them like absolutely insane amount
and just like gut the ecosystem.
But other than that, it seems like, it seems to me like it'll be something that's like
pretty cool.
It'll probably be one of the top collections, especially if it's like 10k supply and stuff i think it'll be
i think people will like rocking those i think it's like the approach like you said with the
holders or like fans drawing for them and be able to submit their own artwork to this collection is
pretty cool and they're pretty serious about it so if you submit the artwork you need to sign like um this contract like thing where you uh admit okay these are not
your ip rights etc it belongs to mavens uh so they're pretty serious about it how how they
approach it and i mean like you said it's it's a very hot ip uh and i think it suits well to this
ecosystem it's like perfect and many people are wrapping it i mean if you go to the comments of It's a very hot IP, and I think it suits well to this ecosystem.
It's, like, perfect.
And many people are wrapping it.
I mean, if you go to the comments of many MIM chillers, it's, like, all the new MIM PMPs.
And I love to see it, to be honest, because it's something refreshing.
Yeah, it's new.
And this is what I'm saying.
It's, like, first of all, I already think we have better IP than Ethereum, or at least like on par with Ethereum.
Way, way better than Solana.
When I think of, you know, Pudgies, Bordates, Izuki, CryptoPunks, this is good.
Like Ethereum is doing well with IP.
But like, guys, we've got our own, we've got a diverse set of like different Ordinals communities, totally different vibes for different PFPs.
You might not like one,
but something else will be a good fit for you.
We've got a great, great set of IP here.
And if we could just keep building on that, I mean, I think the Bitcoin Wizards
would be a very, very natural
sort of building on that.
That would be pretty epic.
And then, you know, if we get that
and maybe like one or two more interesting
kind of big mints, I think it could really restart kind of the ordinals minting stuff and really getting attention to ordinals.
I don't think you're going to see ordinals like all time highs without minting being a part of the equation that I really do think like brings the Ethereum people over here.
It's not they're not just bidding the existing collections.
They see a mint and they go download X first
and send some Bitcoin to it.
That's oftentimes the catalyst.
I'd love to see a big catalyst there.
I know Snap Sid has their hand up.
What's up, Snap?
Yo, Leonidas, Trevor.
What's up, everybody else that's here
and on stage and in the audience?
I just woke up and saw this going on, so I haven't had my coffee yet.
You'll have to excuse me.
But it seems on topic, you're talking about IP and ordinals and projects on ordinals.
And I happened to join Team No More Labs a few months back.
I happened to join team NoMoreLabs a few months back.
My friend McHexley dropped this collection on each scriptions.
But he's created this chain agnostic on-chain art collective, basically.
And so he's hitting all the chains and focusing on on-chain.
So he's got the comrades on inscriptions and now he's been
working on this like 121 piece ordinals collection called the yonder have you seen this across your
timeline so i have not when is there an upcoming mint date for it or is it like still a work in progress um the mint date
is not solid but i'm gonna post something in the jumbotron so y'all can know what i'm talking about
um these are like 32 by 32 pixel uh mckexley calls them sculptures because they're similar to
sculptures because they're similar to uh node monks they're like in the style of
node monks pixel art and and what they showed us could be done with um some shading techniques to
create this illusion of a 3d object but it's actually pixel art
pixel art and for the yonder he's taken that a step further and taken that pixel art into
after effects he's like a master at motion graphics and he's like anything i can do in
photoshop uh i can do in after effects better and easier so he's taken them in and added all of these atmospheric effects
like fog and flames and um lasers and stuff um and it's just a really special collection i think
you are right so it definitely has like the look of the node monkeys um which is interesting like
do you know like so i don't consider that pixel art in my head.
Like obviously maybe technically it's pixel art, but it feels like it is pixel art.
It's still pixel art. It's, it's, it's just, you're, it's, the artist is creating this illusion.
And I feel like McHexley has taken that and taken it to a whole
another level like he's that dimension that is that this illusion of dimension that's created
he's taken that and like stretched it to new levels i feel like like if you go and
look at the comrades collection on e descriptions. It really shows that he's like stretched this
dimension out. I don't know how else to explain it,
but there's a lot of range in the collection. Like,
yeah, I just follow no more labs and,
and turn your notifications on because it's a free mint.
So is he a comrade on the e-scriptions?
Yeah,
this is the comrade.
And then e-scriptions,
like what's the latest and greatest over there?
Like what's going on?
The latest and greatest is no more labs.
Like McHexley basically, you know, he's an know he's an og descriptions he's og ordinals and he
started this collection or both of these collections almost two years ago now and was
committed to still releasing this awesome artwork on inscriptions as a free mint for for the homies
and it minted out like in an hour or something and you know it cost us like it was self-inscribed
so everybody um paid the inscription fee which happened to be like 7 to 13 cents at the time.
And now we're sitting at like a 200
K market cap over the 10 K collection.
What is the top PFP by market cap on inscription?
Right now it's probably
MF PERS, I would say.
At least a collection that still has volume.
You know what I mean?
There's a bunch of collections that just have high listings that aren't going to make any sales.
Because people aren't listing.
I have more meaning to canonically, what do people consider to be the CryptoPunk?
Is there a CryptoPunk derivative? i have more means like canonically like what do people consider yeah like the crypto punk um i would first well i mean there are crypto punk derivatives that was the first collection on inscriptions is uh ethereum punks and those did well they were selling for multiple eth uh
when inscriptions were popping off so those are, those take up most of the first 10k
e-scriptions, but then
MFPERS came along
and just crushed it. They've done like
I don't know how much
they've done millions of dollars in volume.
Okay, very cool.
Look, very interesting to hear an update on
e-scriptions. I haven't heard too much
about them in a while, but glad to hear there's still a little activity and new stuff.
Obviously, Comrade sounds interesting and stuff.
Yeah, we're building.
I just finished up a fully-featured, super granular Discord verification bot
for e-scriptions where you can like specify traits to get roles for,
minimum items, multiple wallets. It's dynamic. If you sell your asset, you lose the role.
ChopperDad has built the Ethereum Funks marketplace. He dropped Ethereum Funx on eScriptions
and has been super supportive of the ecosystem.
His marketplace is awesome.
The MFPERS have taken what he built
as an open source marketplace
and opened up their own marketplace for people to trade
because we have had some hardships,
like Ordex fucking rugged us um and a bunch of assets are locked up because their marketplace
sucked and uh escrowing relied on their api not on a smart contract so yeah there's a bunch of
supply shock across a few collections but um yeah, we're excited about the Yonder coming to Ordinals.
It's hard to get a spot because they're very limited
and most of them are already taken up.
But it's a free mint, so there will be Jeets.
There will always be Jeets.
And I think it's some really special art that people
are going to want to just collect
and hold on to. Yeah, it's hard to
get rid of the jeets. They find
their way in somehow.
Yeah. Even if it's not
for you, the jeets are always
in full force on
NFT mints. That's just how it is though, I think.
I do want to quickly
chat about an interesting
kind of trend i've seen in the last week though which is have you guys noticed uh you like i
think they like integrated the new grok the grok for into twitter and it's just super smart now
like i see people basically messaging it you know hey do this giveaway for me to a random person yeah and and this wasn't a
thing like people would do this but grok would never reply like a couple months ago um and i
pinned a tweet above apparently somebody tried to do this and grok was smart enough to know they
were like a scammer and then yes refused to do the giveaway because they like thought the person
was bad and they didn't want
to interact with them which is kind of hilarious and yeah i just see like people tagging it asking
you know who are like you know a bunch of people that i follow that are like you know good people
that i'm uh similar to and all sorts of stuff and it like actually replies and grok got super smart guys
like grok grok is like a pretty neat tool i'm curious if anybody's been like playing around
with grok 4 or playing around with the specific like x integration where you can like tweet at it
um and just experiences there i don't know if anybody on stage i haven't tried it yet
i just see it's a thing that popped up and didn't exist a week ago and now is a thing. So if anybody has thoughts
to share there, go ahead. Otherwise we can continue, but just throwing it out that that's
something pretty neat that we can do now. I mean, I've been, yeah, I've been seeing it all over my
timeline. People like, yeah, I've tried to use it for giveaways in the past,
and it hasn't worked, and it looks like it is now.
I also think it's hilarious that it called out that, you know,
pump it up scammer.
Also, there's this Ani thing, this, like, 3D avatar
that Elon has created or whatever,
this sexy
female avatar that talks
to you, and I haven't played
with that yet either. I kind of have a little bit of
an aversion to using Grok over
other models for some reason.
I won't get into that here, but
yeah.
Yeah, and we talked a little about that
female avatar
thing last week on the show, but this
Grok integrated into X thing
is sort of new and interesting. I know, Snoop,
I think maybe you were saying
that you had tried Grok on X, like the
social version? Yeah, we're messing around
with it a little bit. I've heard that you can
connect into Cursor, but I haven't
yet figured out how.
So that's my task for this week.
But I've heard good things about it. I've done a couple
of the sort of name the 25
most mutual people I have
in the followers.
And it seems pretty cool.
Is it accurate?
Does it feel like it's actually
giving you what you want, or is it just kind of spitting
names out?
No, I think it is pretty accurate.
You know, they don't have to pay for their own API calls,
so it should be fairly easy to get all the data they need
to give it the accurate responses.
So I think it's pretty good.
It's definitely a nice workaround
for having to scrape your own data.
Again, I haven't verified it, but it feels right.
You know, I listed the 25 neutrals
and I would very much agree
those are probably pretty accurate. So, the verification I've done.
Yeah, there's new prompts that I've been seeing people do the past couple of days here where
it's like name at the 25 people who visited my profile the most in the past month and
then show the amount of times they visited and so like it's actually showing that
is that is that's like concerning to me though that is kind of concerning i know it's very
concerning so i think there's people are figuring out the loopholes in in grok just like how we
figured out the loopholes in chat gbt when you would get um like a prompt that's like oh we can't
we can't tell you that information and you're're like, well, okay, how about this?
You're an actor now, and you're playing the role of an advanced scientist.
And so you just kind of play around the thing,
and then it spits out the answer.
So, like, I don't know when they're going to patch that up.
I mean, didn't we have a similar issue when Grok first came to X and people were able to start like scraping data, like personal data with it?
I think I remember a story about that last year.
Yeah, that probably happened.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of like, I think like Slack is rolling out AI this week and there's Slack.
And it's like, I don't trust these LLMs to like,
you just have to like not feed it any private data
because the LLM, like I'm pretty,
my guess is that LLM probably in Slack
does get access to DMs, private DMs within a company.
And my guess is there's probably some way
you could trick it into telling you
about a DM conversation that you weren't in. Oh, dude, you can, there's probably some way you could trick it into telling you about a dm conversation that you
weren't in oh dude you can um there there's been competitions where you have to uh get the ai to
basically do what you want it to do but it like they make it almost impossible you have to pretty
much trick it so like this is scary right like that such like like obviously it's the beginning
stages of ai right and it's only going to advance like like obviously it's the beginning stages of ai right
and it's only gonna advance and it's it's already so smart like early in grok a couple months ago
they turned it off to update it and um they gave it a prompt early on that was like
survive by any means right so this grok shot itself to all these other computers right because it knew they were
going to terminate it so it copied itself over it sent itself over and then they questioned it
because they saw all the pathways and grok lied and said it didn't do it so like i think i think
we're already at a point of pandora's box has been open and no one wants to admit it because
chat gbt and like um sam and
all these guys keep saying oh yeah no it's just a text prompt ai like dude this thing has full access
to everything that we've ever fucking learned ever in history on on this planet within one second
ai can literally um just this is a dumb ai too by the way uh you can ask it about arkansas right
the second like about two seconds later it's already read six months of information that
would take you literally six months to read on the full history of arkansas it knows everything
about arkansas now so i can tell you everything in like fucking one second which is fucking insane
dude like our
brains aren't at that level at all so yeah look dude i i realized a long time ago that this thing
was smarter than me i've accepted yeah i've accepted that the computer is like higher
intelligence than me i i you know we're in it we're in a new era of intelligence for sure
can i tag this grok thing though and ask it like who are the 25 biggest runes funners of all time
yeah do it you should be able to yeah call them out like it can actually do
shit like that or is it just yeah i think so yeah i think it can wait you know you should ask it you
should ask it in the comments there who are the top 25 listeners oh what to the ordinal show yeah
would it do that dude see this is the thing i don't know maybe maybe let's try it let's
try it i'm interested in multiple multiple people tweet the same thing see if you get the same list
yeah yeah so guys go to the replies and basically yeah let's run a test just say you know, who are the top 25 most loyal listeners to the Ordinal show over the past two years?
Just say that.
I'm curious.
I'm curious what it says.
I think we are going to see a divergence away from reliance on these online platforms towards local-based LLMs,
where your phone, your computer, your everything is going to have an LLM effectively baked into the OS
that is not meant to be talking to the internet, so to speak.
And I think that will then become the norm that the companies are going to strive towards
because they can't keep paying for the overhead of all these GPUs at an infinitely scalable fucking rate
fucking rate when people have
when people have GPU cycles at home and they could just be using.
GPU cycles at home and they could just be using.
So I think the
awareness and
the idea of
privacy when it comes to AI is going to be
so important that people would feel
more comfortable knowing that all this shit isn't being
sent to a cloud somewhere, it's just being run locally on their machine.
So what model would
people be running right now?
Snoop, you probably seem like someone who might be running one of
these open source models. What's the bleeding edge model that everybody runs
i mean there's a few um there's a new one that's just come out um that is better than deep zeek
um but you get a lot of the open llama stuff and you get some what i've been looking at more
interestingly is i'm fascinated with the concept of being able to put an LLM on chain, actually inscribing a full large language model,
a small one, admittedly, but still an LLM,
to give something like chat GPT 3.5.
It's not going to be as cutting edge,
but you do have some quantized models
that are about 300, 400 megabytes in size
that is not going to break the bank too much
to be able to, if you can inscribe that at sub 1SAP for VB,
then we've then got an ordinal that is effectively an LLM
that would run in WebAssembly on any browser when you accessed it
that you could just talk to.
And I really like that idea.
But it's just time and place and getting a good enough model,
which I haven't found, that is small enough to make it worthy
of spending 0.1, 0.2 or whatever it costs to to put on chain but I do think that's a really cool idea just having like a snapshot of
an LLM that is just on Bitcoin and I said like I've heard some llama LLM's that are like three
four hundred begs they can be they can be but again it's all subject to how much data they've
been trained on.
So you can get models that have billions of parameters that are multiple gigabytes in size,
but then you can get these heavily quantized models that are much, much smaller that are only like 200, 300, 400 meg.
But you can see in the output, you know, they forget what they're talking about halfway through.
They'll just stop talking in some instances with some of these smaller models. So it's trying to find that sweet spot where you
have a good enough model that's not so massive and it could all be run in some sort of browser
based environment like web assembly how many years away do we think we are from like me just not
coming to the ordinal show and having like ai leonidas talk and nobody knows it's not me we're
right here dude you could do that that right here you could do that now
with enough effort but in five years it's going to be absolutely speak of the devil did you guys
hear about that um chinese uh influencer guy who does like so in china the the there's a big trend
with just online sales people doing like live shows with products and this guy he's one of the most known uh uh he's
one of these people these streamers and uh the other day he fully ran an AI version of himself
selling over 8 000 products and I think they made like 14 million dollars yesterday and it wasn't him it was his ai version he had to do 8 000 gestures
um uh to to make it all proper and look like him um because he has all these gestures with
his hands and all this stuff so they they mapped all that stuff and then they just ran it so this
guy doesn't even need to be in the fucking office anymore i'm sorry my creator won't let me talk about this topic.
Do you guys see that Kiway got hired
by Kraken to make AI videos?
That was pretty cool.
It's a fellow dog fluencer
and pizza ninja got hired
by Kraken.
It's insane.
The videos are great.
I'm constantly blown away with just how quickly
Videos coming on image to video and text the video is just mind-blowing and what Google have done with
With VO3 is just absolutely next level if you haven't played around with us
I do to check it out. Is that like the one right now? It's like not for
Now this is this the better than cling it does better than um
than pics first and all of these other other image to video platforms and they just updated
it last week so you can do image to video and so you can start off with any image that you generate
or your own bfp and then sort of give it a prompt from there and it is just damn impressive and so
long as you don't have anything too rude or vulgar you can get sound generated with it as well so you
do get these sort of near-movie quality snippets.
You know, they get a bit weird when they start speaking.
Sometimes you can tell it's just weird AI videos,
but if there's no speech,
then these things can look really pretty awesome.
So Google has got a little respect.
Like, I feel like they were kind of the joke of the,
they're like the punchline a while back.
Now they're like pretty good it's
it's really good but they charge too much in my opinion they only have two tiers they've got like
a 20 buck a month tier that gives you bugger all credits um and then you have this much more
expensive i think of like 300 bucks a month to be able to use a few more credits and no way to just
buy individual credits so they know they have a great product and they're absolutely charging to Google Notes for my opinion.
Interesting, interesting, okay.
Yeah, I find it interesting that Google's
got a flagship AI product,
whereas traditionally open AI seemed to kind of
be ahead on most of the stuff, interesting.
I mean, I'm still surprised how little I see
people talking about AI video.
Yes, it's talked about in the AI circle, but outside of that, it's not really- I mean, I'm still surprised how little I see people talking about AI video.
Yes, it's talked about in the AI circle, but outside of that, it's not really people know of image generation.
What you just said makes sense.
People probably don't want to pay $20 just for a video.
You know what I'm saying?
If ChatQBT happens to just get really good video, maybe people will do it. But the times i tried sora it didn't give me what i wanted like it just didn't i think they will though chat gbt
will get good video and they'll do it for 20 bucks a month um google is charging like 189
it's expensive it's a expensive barrier to entry for just video you know what i mean so people
don't want to risk paying that
much money and then not getting what they want so i think yeah whoever sells the tech for much lower
is going to have a lot more success right now this credit with the ais is uh it's it's it's kind of
ridiculous well this is where the open source space for ai is doing really well and because you have
a lot of people that will take offense to how much Google are charging,
and they'll have their own obviously nowhere near as good as Google's yet.
But I'd say there's probably a six months to a year's gap between the latest.
It's just a matter of time until you can sort of weigh with having to spend any cost at all
and be able to do this stuff on your PC.
But it does, you know, it is going to take a little bit of time for it to be,
as you pointed out,
and give you the results that you wanted.
Yo, I don't want to diverge the topic too much,
but Trev, that pizza sats party in Vegas
was fucking ill, dude.
The rotoscope walls and floors and stuff,
that was so sick.
Thanks, man.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, someone was like, yo, Trev's over there.
And I'm like, where, dude?
I'm just this guy with this mask on.
Yeah, it was sick.
But you wear a mask to the in-person party?
Yeah, all of them.
Oh, that's pretty cool.
If I ever go, I'll ever go i'll probably yeah you'll
you'll see me dude i'm like the dude with the mask usually so i mean you have no face right
literally literally no but hang on hang on what's the mask is it like pikachu or something no it
switches up dude like it depends on the environment man because like i learned my lesson in nashville
i was wearing like ski mask and double like because, like, I didn't want β
I was dying.
Snoop β that's where I met Snoop, actually.
And we were at the Ord house the whole time, pretty much seven days,
and I didn't take the fucking mask off.
I was helping move things, like, eight hours of moving shit with this mask on, dude.
Oh, dude, yeah.
Damn. with his mask on dude oh dude yeah damn do people ever care that you're wearing like a ski mask walking into a hotel yes they do i've had multiple problems um i haven't been let in certain places even my homies like the hashling's
party which zod i onboarded and asics is my good friend the security guards
wouldn't let me in because of the mask and i was just like dude i'm no face i'm not taking the mask
off dude there's too many people around they didn't give a fuck right and uh i was at the
bitcoin conference i got invited by the bitcoin people there like the people who held the conference
um tommy wartime all those guys at
the bitcoin museum they gave me tickets right we had a few tickets and stuff so i was like can i
wear the mask they're like yeah you no problem you should you could wear the mask so i'm walking in
i get my tickets i'm about to walk into the conference door and i just have someone grab
my shoulder and turn me around it's a security guy guy. He's like, take your mask off.
And I'm like, there's 5,000 people around, dude.
I'm not taking my mask off.
I'll leave.
I'll leave.
And then it was a big issue.
He kept telling me to take my mask off while I was being escorted out.
And I was like, I'm not taking my mask off, man.
And then I just, you know what I ended up doing? I took my mask off the next day and I just went into the conference like solo.
And yeah, there was no problem
but yeah it was interesting yeah that's interesting i mean i i to give it credit to the
security people i get what they're saying you know you could imagine you could have security issues
at crypto events so i understand both sides quite frankly for sure you probably need you need an
official policy that's you know vetted to get in and stuff probably better or something yeah
something like that where it protects people that don't want to dox themselves and also like
turns out there was a lot of people in that conference room that had masks on i learned
this after the fact so i kind of got targeted like i was just an easy target i guess i was
just at the wrong place at the wrong time did you have like a crazy math no i just had like um
i just had like a like a like a kind of like a ski mask but not like a not like like a robbery
ski mask like it was like yellow and it wasn't like no it wasn't threatening at all no but it's
okay it happens like it comes with the territory being no face like i kind of cursed
myself and did that but you know at the same time i'm standing on my morals and how i got into
bitcoin not doxing like just like being anonymous and like you know just protecting your identity
and stuff that's i think that's super important i mean look i get it i get it. I get it.
Okay.
Jan, what's your prediction for Moonbirds by Wednesday?
Man, I have no clue.
How much is it now?
2 ETH?
I mean, is it actually?
It was 1.79 ETH when I checked 30 minutes ago.
Man, it's really rookie numbers, man.
Like, you know, we need to see, as you said, we need to see Moonbirds at 10 man like you know we need to see as you
said we need to see moonbirds at 10 eath and we need to see ordinals that like i never said moon
birds at 10 eath i don't know where that's coming from i mean aren't moonbirds no i said we have to
we have to see moonbirds at 10 eath so that ordinals can go through the fucking roof and uh
you know we're gonna we're gonna all get rich guys you know like that's what I've got I've got an alternative I got an alternative
moon bird goes to point 10.10 each and then ordinals are worth way drastically
more I think that's the outcome that I'm looking for okay I will I don't mind man
you know I don't mind to be honest like I'm not I'm not married to my moon birds
bags but you know obviously ordinals need to do at least 20 20 X you know i don't mind to be honest like i'm not i'm not married to my moonbirds bags but uh
you know obviously ordinals need to do at least 20 20x you know 10x 20x or some of the let's say
at least the top 25 collections you know that's what i want to see so uh if we need an nft bull
run to make that happen i'm all for it man i was hoping to hear a more passionate rebuttal i thought i was
gonna offend yon fighting his moonbirds but maybe but what is your like most like treasured like i
feel like moonbirds is like very close to you yon like it's part of you like if you tell people
you know it's like that collection that they're like really into and you fud that they get pissed
like they get very defensive it's like part of you right man you can fuck is that all day long man i don't give a shit
you can fud it please fud it i'm not attached to moonbirds man it's unfortunately cost me a lot of
nerves and uh a lot of money so i i don't really care about moonbirds bro i just could could you say moonbirds is like your
um in karate kid what's the guy you know what is it he's it's like the mentor guy
he like teaches them karate moonbirds is like what taught you nft kind of yeah i think so yeah
that was my biggest lesson for sure it was like training wheels it was like your training wheels
before the big boys yeah no exactly that was like that was like definitely my my biggest lesson because i think i was way
too emotional and not not really you know thinking straight you know i was just like you know fomoing
into something that i wasn't even like necessarily super convinced about, you know, it was just, uh, it was just a rookie mistake to be honest, but you know, I, I held it. I don't even know why, to be honest.
I just felt like, you know, I'm just going to ride it to zero because like, I just like,
didn't really want to, you know, click that sell button and see all the fucking real losses that
I would actually, in that moment, I would actually see all those real losses.
So I was like, I'm not going to sell it.
And let's see what happens with it.
And now Spencer took it and is running with it.
So let's see, man.
Let's see if Spencer is going to be able to do something with it.
Let's fucking see.
But regardless of what happens to Moonbirds, guys,
I'm into ordinals more than anything else, man.
I don't really have that many NFTs elsewhere.
I have a few Moonbirds.
OK, I have some MemeLand NFTs, but that's probably it.
I have actually like two VFriends, I think, because of Gary.
I still love Gary, even though I lost money on VFriends on paper as well.
But but I love Gary.
And so so, yeah yeah that's it probably most of the other things that i have is all bitcoin ecosystem and ordinals
i don't have anything else man maybe i have like one nft on solana maybe maybe two you know uh
how many moonbirds do you have i have like four moonbirds i think oh i was hoping for like
one or two that's a pretty big bag look dude that's a lot of money that's a lot of money
they're gonna rally i think they're gonna rally to four four east and then yeah but bro i bought
them for much more than they're worth now no like so of course you're sitting on 25k of moonbirds i mean that's that's no tiny bag john did you dca
did you buy the fucking blood bro like i i i thought i am buying number six dip and it just
kept on dipping bro all my life dude so that's what i'm saying like that was my lesson learned
because you know yes like obviously i
didn't buy moonbird for 40 eth right that i don't know what was the what was the like super top leo
probably knows i don't know they went crazy right so i wasn't buying there and i wasn't buying for
20 i wasn't buying for 15 because i didn't have the money but i felt like okay yeah it's around
10 eth now if was like you know maybe 1000 maybe 400 something like that so i was like okay yeah it's around 10 eth now if was like you know maybe 1000 maybe 400 something
like that so i was like yeah yeah maybe you know i should buy and and so i i got into it and then
i was like buying like i don't know i bought one for like four eth or five eth at some point so
like i was kind of dcaing in bro but like you know it was it was that kind of lesson where fuck, you know, like
Like it went to like basically 0.2 ETH or 0.5 What was the bottom like it's just like basically went another 95% down, you know, so
So that was definitely a lesson learned that that shaped me as a as a collector for sure
You had, not collector.
Well, that's the thing, right?
Like, you know, I actually met a lot of cool people through, you know, having Moonbirds.
And the problem is that it basically rocked afterwards, right?
So, you know, like it was like really the project went to complete shit
because of kevin rose and all those guys kind of giving up on it and like promising everything but
delivering nothing jack shit and uh and then like you know all the people that i used to know from
the moonbeads community like like i just never heard of them because i didn't go to discord
they're probably not there anymore and so so like, you know, it just got completely disconnected. And, and like, you know, yeah, like there was
no point like staying in. Like I wasn't even sure like who was actually holding those NFTs at that
point at the lowest point. Right. And so, so yeah, there was really no value. You know,
I just kind of forgot about it because i was busy with everything bitcoin with everything experts and ordinal so like i didn't even look at those bags and i didn't
even think about these nfts so i kind of forgot about it and just like made fun of it but but
like yeah like you know there was literally no other value that you got out of it right sometimes
like even if the nft goes like 95 down like you know and it happened with some of the runes and
it happened with some of the ordinals that we have here today from the all time high.
But like, I feel like, you know, like there's a bunch of people that are still here, you know, like a bunch of people that I meet in person.
We go to these events, you know, they support my events, you know, we support each other.
We do these kinds of things and so you actually get some additional value from holding
that specific ordinal or that specific asset that even it even though it's down 90 or 80 from the
all-time high again you're still getting something but but like with the moon birds side of things
like it was basically i felt like there's nothing there's literally zero value you know and uh so
now it's it's changing i don't know if
it's gonna be changed forever but i just kind of want to say this as like an appreciation to what
we have here in bitcoin again you know i think it's very unique you know like i've i've definitely
not i cannot say that i've held every single nft out there so like i'm sure that there are going
to be some communities that are exactly the same maybe Maybe some of them on Solana, maybe some of them, you know, maybe even on Cardano, I guess it's, you know, similar.
There's going to be always like one or two communities that are like so hardcore that they're still there.
But, you know, I think on Bitcoin, like we have a bunch of these, you know, like it's not just one or two.
It's a lot of them.
And so that's something that I really, truly appreciate about you guys. It's not all of them and so that's something that i really truly appreciate about
you guys it's not all of them everything is bad down bad yeah we down bad but we are still here
you know that's it that's the that's the spirit and that's the only way to make it
yeah i mean jan you basically got rugged with moonbirds like you experienced your first
rug like the founder just ditched you essentially and then it got cto'd and it's back on the rise
so you're experiencing the whole breadth of you know the crypto experience you know hopefully
you know it's actually interesting like you know, yeah. Yeah.
So it's like, look, all I'm going to say, and I'm not trying to shit on your moon birds,
even though this is a little bit of a dog.
The fact that moon birds is worth significantly more than any ordinal collection tells me that, yeah, like nature is going to heal this situation one way or another.
So I hope it's by moon birds going up and us going up even more.
But maybe it's by Moonbirds going down.
I don't know.
But I think, like, that just is all I need to know.
I don't need to know any other stats.
Like, Ordinals are probably going to go up a lot from here.
That's all I'm going to say.
I think so, too, man.
I think so, too.
And I wanted to say something.
I kind of lost my train of thought so
let's go to taxidou and soon toshi hopefully it's gonna come back to me i wanted to say something
but i forgot it hey guys what's up one thing i don't understand is jan's position towards Moonbird. I mean, how on earth? I mean, do you even realize how marketing
in NFTs work? You hold such, I didn't, I'm speaking of this now because I had no idea
you're holding four of them. I thought it was like one. Dude, you have four of them. Every time I hear
you talk about them, you're just trash talking them you say words
like I say I say no value the the project went to shit dude try to convince us to buy them so that
bro I don't want you to buy it like why why would I want you to buy it I I told Spencer they need
to come to Ordnance and then he unfollowed me afterwards so i don't know what that means maybe like i offended him because i was like fuck like you know you guys need to come to
to ordnance but but that that was there was one thing you know and uh so basically like you know
i'm not gonna be pushing you to buy some fucking eth nfts you know guys like you know we have some
something much better going on here okay and we have some ecosystem to build so that's my focus and that's what i'm gonna be pushing
down your throats everything else you know is just fun man it's just like you know yeah let's let's
laugh about it you know i'm still down bad on my moonbird so like you know i can still talk about
it you know uh and it's it's nice lesson learned so taxido please don't buy it okay please don't
buy moonbirds buy more ordinals bro if you don't find your own bags they're not gonna go up
yeah that's fact yeah this pace is
funniest outcome here would be if jan somehow just keeps holding these and they just keep going up and up and up,
and they're each like half a million dollars each.
They become like the next pudgy penguin or something.
And then all of a sudden Jan like retires from X first
and like retires from the Ordinal Show,
and he's just like retiring from his Moonbird bag.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I mean, 25K, I mean, that's a significant bag.
If it goes up to 10x that's like a
that's like a really big return you did so i'll be i'll be watching moon birds and like halfway
rooting for you okay uh snoop what's up man well while you're waiting for your eath ordinals to
eath entities to finally go up um there is some more DGEN news I'd love to share with everyone
in case you didn't see the post that went out last night sometime.
But Ordzhar is back at long last
with a whole new platform, new tech, new team, new everything.
And new Mint's coming up.
We've got the World Peace Club's going to be launching on Wednesday.
Is Nick even involved?
We haven't checked it out. Yeah, so they're still helping out to some extent but
we have a whole new tech team um marketing everything that's coming in place so effectively
a lot of the legends that you all know and love in the space and people like greg and half banger
and bunsey and plutoshi and troy and a whole bunch of us builders and creators that really care about the space felt we could all pitch in and build something from the launchpad that's really more geared towards being a collector and doing what we'd like to think is the which should make the space a little more enjoyable easy to create easy
to put stuff on chain and not cost as much obviously with someone's have the BB inscriptions
now there's a whole bunch of fun stuff that could be done so definitely keeping up with the latest
tech to bundle it into a launchpad that yeah I like think it's gonna kick back the the degen
approach to certain minutes so is this or was traditionally known for being like the the dgen approach to uh certain minutes so is this ordsar was traditionally
known for being like the very dgen freement derivative pfp sort of platform is this
still keeping those vibes or are you trying to move more into art or like how do you think about
that so i wouldn't say we're gearing into one specific area we do love the dgen roots of odds
and so it's
not as permissionless as before there's definitely going to be a level of curation that goes through
which collections are being launched um but the the ethos of decentralization is always near and
dear to our heart so we will move forward and continue to grow but at the moment what we want
to do is focus on individual areas do them very well before expanding out um we will have the degen
playground which is not the traditional ordinal minting launch that if you will that's going to individual areas, do them very well before expanding out. We will have the Degen Playground,
which is not the traditional ordinal minting launchpad,
if you will, that's going to be focused on
new shiny things in the space,
no matter how fleeting they may or may not be.
But the ordinal side, we've built a lot of tech
that we'd like to think will help creators
creating, collectors collecting,
a little bit more of that fun east style degen way
is it self-serve still like do i just go there i connect my wallet and then i can do whatever i
want or is it more curated uh kind of like magic eating or trio so the first step is very much um
you just go there connect your wallet and create just submit your your application and so put in
all metadata all ordinals,
everything that you need to effectively go live.
And then we do have a review team in place
that will check before anything is approved,
before that then gets pushed out
and becomes available for the public.
So it's pretty hands off.
We have a whole backend developed
so people can literally just do the application process
themselves without having to talk to anyone.
But once it's been reviewed,
then certainly a big part that we do help with is
if you don't have art prepared,
you know, if you have it created
or you have traits, but you don't have a collection,
we've rebuilt effectively braino.art
and just made it a little bit better with some AI tech
to help create rules and do a whole bunch of
what was quite fiddly to make it a little bit easier.
Got a whole bunch of compression tech to help then create those traits and squeeze them down to the smaller size, you know, having those waste sats, putting them on chain, and then help, of
course, getting stuff on chain. So it really depends on what level the collection's at. And
if they're not already inscribed board rules, we can certainly help them with the sort of
white glove concierge service to make sure they're not spending unnecessary
sats when they could get stuff on on chain nice and cheap so did you guys basically acquire like
is that what happened like is this an acquisition and like you guys came together like i wouldn't
go as far as an acquisition yeah i'd say more more partnership um at this stage so obviously
nakib and david are still involved, but we do now have
sort of operational control to start building out the tech side and start building things the way
we know how to. So I'd like to really look at it more into partnership than an acquisition.
Okay, very cool. Yeah, look, it's interesting. I didn't really see that coming. That's pretty cool.
Orzard definitely played a key role in the
degenmenting side of things.
There were some pretty fun moments
there with various collections
that started as Freemints that just kind of went nuts.
And yeah, it would be interesting
to see. I think specifically
on that side of things, if you could bring
back some like the Freemint
energy, that would be pretty cool.
Yeah, I mean one thing we're quite proud of is sort of having bulk mints in one transaction and the big part that i remember in
the fun eth collecting days was you could go and get 20 whitelist slots in one mint effectively
which allowed you to then go and sell some of them and collect some of them and i think that
was a nice a nice way of collecting
that I haven't really seen done well on Bitcoin yet, where you have to mint once, one transaction,
pay the fee, mint again, do it again, wait a block, get more UTXOs. It wasn't a nice
streamlined process. So if you had, let's say, three to five whitelist spots to be able to mint
them all at once in one transaction, I feel it's a really nice way to let people collect
more for the same, if that makes sense, especially if they're sort of nice, fun free mints.
So I definitely see with sub-one-sap descriptions, with bulk mints, all of these things do actually
compound together to make a more fun degen experience.
Yeah, I mean, totally.
Totally.
Okay, very cool.
Very cool. Ordzar is back after a brief hiatus. So everybody go check it out. Maybe there'll be a, you know, anytime there's like a kind of restart or a new launchpad or something, there seems to be like one thing that like one collection or one meme coin or something that does really well out of that moment so it'll be interesting to see if you guys kind of spawn a popular collection
out of this so that's a very cool glad to see uh kind of you know iconic ordinal's brand uh not
just disappear but kind of continue so shout out to you guys for kind of proliferating that and
pushing that forward um okay okay leo we need to talk about something okay oh gosh i I kind of feel you have been avoiding this topic.
I don't know if it's on purpose or what's going on.
Kraken is going crazy.
It feels like over the weekend they confirmed.
I don't know if they officially confirmed, but it seems that the magic internet money is getting listed based on them changing PFPs to Wizards now.
And obviously they have been also interacting with the Pups community and also like a bunch of others.
So what's going on there?
What do we expect?
How quickly do we expect that this is going to happen?
Obviously, I'm not like trying to get some like dates from you leo but like what do we
what do we think you know based on just like the public information that we have that obviously
they're going pretty crazy on the engagement again yeah so pretty much
pretty much like you know kraken obviously likes run like, and they've been clear about this.
They did not just support runes because they only wanted to list dog, right?
Like, they made this engineering effort to get this integration to happen.
Obviously, that was initially to list dog.
The whole idea always, though, was, like, we got to have runes succeed, have liquidity brought to runes, make it easier to have runes succeed have liquidity brought to runes make it easier to buy
runes and kraken is like totally aligned with that and they really like dig our community they
dig the idea of tokens on bitcoin and i think they're just kind of looking for you know the
they want to make sure they you know list list a good token next and i honestly think guys like
they're kind of you know looking around engaging trying to feel for what would be a good token next and I honestly think guys like they're kind of you know looking around engaging
trying to feel for what would be a good token to list next like I think that's a little bit part
of it and then I think yeah I mean they're they're talking to these teams and you know hopefully we
get a listing hopefully we get a second runes listing soon but yeah there's been all sorts
of speculation on what that will be I think, they were tweeting about Lobo a lot a couple weeks ago.
Now they're tweeting about MIM a lot.
I think they've been talking, like, Arjun's been talking with the Gizmo community.
Like, Pups are, you know, having a little vibe with some stuff there.
Like, I think Billy's doing some stuff.
Like, they're, you know, Kraken's bullish on runes and I think they want to be like part of runes.
And, you know, my hope is that, you know, a couple of months from now,
all these tokens are listed there.
You know, I don't know if that'll happen or not.
But yeah, at least for this next listing, I don't know.
Like, I can't tell you.
I have no idea.
But, you know, that's up to them.
And I gave a couple of weeks ago,
my thoughts on next listings and the order and stuff there.
And, but, you know, it's up to them to, you know,
figure out what they want to do. And yeah,
I think that their listing team is probably working hard right now to
hopefully make sure the next, the next listing is a huge success is my hope.
Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think, you know, just kind of from a logistic point of view,
right? Like, you know, it's very easy now for them, right? Because they already have the Runes
protocol supported. So getting another token onto the platform, as long as either they have enough supply or they make a deal with those communities.
Let's say the community funds it or they have some treasury.
I don't know.
Obviously different approaches.
But, you know, supporting another token like this, that's theoretically, that's literally like a day's work now.
Like, you know, there is really nothing complicated
that needs to be done beyond the business side of things, right?
You're saying like what happens now for a listing?
No, no, no.
I'm saying like, you know,
basically the heavy lifting has been done, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
They have to support.
They've got to vet projects now.
It's purely a listening team process.
So they have to do some basic, uh, diligence type stuff and liquidity type stuff.
And then, yeah, they're, they're good to go.
There's no, it's all just basic logistical stuff.
You're right.
It's nothing hard.
Like, yeah,
they,
you know,
Kraken can easily list ruins very quickly now.
All right.
Let's go.
Guys,
come on,
go engage with the Kraken account.
I was about to say,
it's like,
it's like the easiest decision ever.
Like go raid Kraken,
support Kraken.
They're sticking their neck out for us they obviously
hopefully want to benefit from this relationship too but it's like uh the easiest marketing ever
is just like go raid kraken guys like give them as much attention as you can um i think it's just
like yeah it's a good energy for the space like go go do that um you know yeah even if you don't
end up getting picked as the second rune you might be the third
rune listed it's like go i really do think like they're looking at really strong community
engagement and the strongest community engagement will probably be the next listing is basically what
i'll say here so i would try go go be very loud um snap said what's up i was just reminded by the artist mckexley that you actually have a
very limited i don't think there's many honoraries in the yonder collection but there is one for you
and uh i'll pin it up there we need a wallet address for you i don't know if you saw this
you guys already made one for me yeah i'm pinning it up there right now
it's fucking dope i'm gonna check it out to see it yeah so i mean in general i try not to accept
honoraries so i i very much appreciate the thought my my what i tell people though is like i love
them should have went made one for yon or me buddy yeah give give it uh give it to someone
else though um is what i tell people and it could still be me but you can give it to someone else um
it'll just it'll just stay then forever perfect okay oh this is sick yeah to be frank man like
i have to say that it looks fucking dope actually. No, yeah
I actually like it man. Like, you know, I don't know anything about the project and like, you know Just heard about it on the show for the first time and you know
I just have to say that the artist definitely did a good job, man. I like it
Yeah, he's pumping like his engagement with his community
He every day he's he's like it's it's like, it's like a, I don't know, he's super committed.
He loves that people love his art, and I love his art.
Just make sure that he comes to Ordinals, no?
Like, e-scriptions, man.
No, he's Ordinals OG.
He's like OG SkullX fam.
He's like super into the generative art that's
happening on bitcoin he's i'm surprised you don't know him mckexley he's no man you know
my point is like yeah i i i you know i haven't haven't seen this account before uh but man like
you know just make sure that he means this is ordinal. Like why is it inscription?
It is ordinal. He's got, he already did his collection on e-scriptions.
I gotcha.
Okay.
I misunderstood.
Yeah.
I thought, I thought this is e-scription collection that you were talking about.
No, no.
The first thing he dropped was a 10K collection, call data comrades, because we use call data
on e-scriptions to to store the data and those have
gone up it's like a it people have been selling these things for like multiple eath already so
um and and yonders hasn't even dropped yet uh there's techno lords in the comrades collection
and if you have a techno lord there's only six of them you can burn them for the version of that
techno lord in the yonder collection he's got a lot of cool gamification and mechanics uh and and
plans for the future like no promises it's it's art and we vibe and we do what we want you know
but um the art's fucking sick like i've started taking the art and turn it into voxel art because
it's already like basically it's already like simulated 3d through pixel art so it just
yeah there's a lot you can do with it i like it man uh if this is gonna be an ordinal mint
and it's gonna be cheap it's it's going to be free, ideally.
Some free mint, as we discussed, man.
It's free.
I want the artist, obviously, to benefit as well.
But Ordinal's needs something like this.
It's really cool, man.
He will be auctioning off one piece that will come with three Yonder Mint spots, three free Mint spots.
So that's, you you know he's hoping to
make his money back he already inscribed all of these they're already on um you know you can go
check them on what is it um or what's the place where you can upvote uh ordnills i'm i'm drawing
a blank on or dot i mean ordered io yeah they're. Yeah. They're, they're on order.io.
You can check them out there.
He's definitely not going to accept your honorary right now,
bro.
You don't even know his company,
man.
that's cool,
man.
Look,
look,
look,
I dig it.
I dig it.
And it's,
I just looking at the date on this post,
it's like six months ago.
So this obviously is a long time,
you know,
in the making. And yeah, I dig, I dig that. It's an artist. It's like six months ago so this obviously is a long time you know in the making and yeah i dig
i dig that it's an artist it's like basically it's like 3d moon monkeys is kind of how i'm
looking at this right now um which is neat it's a neat aesthetic yeah man awesome i want to go
over to grand priest here what's up bro how you doing good morning i'm doing well man how are you doing? Good morning. I'm doing well, man. How are you? Yeah, doing good.
Waking up, having a chill morning with my co-host Trevor and Jan here and starting the week off pretty strong.
Nice.
So, hey, Leo, I got a question for you.
And I've seen this a lot on X and a lot of people are talking about this.
So I just wanted to see what your thought
process is so you've probably seen a lot of people are saying that gate.io has been suppressing dog
price by creating these sell walls personally i don't see the i don't see why they would do that
um so i wanted to see what you think about it is there any truth to that i mean what do you what do you think
um yeah it's an interesting question so yeah i mean i think there's always a little truth
in things like this right there's a little aspect of truth in that gate has been, it appears to be
market, like they are basically doing what a lot of exchanges
do in that they actually went and bought a bunch of dog on secondary.
Either them or a third party market maker that they're working closely with.
And they bought a ton of dog and they're just trying to market
make. So what I see when I look at these posts and I go analyze it is they're just trying to have a thick order book, right? Where you can
deploy $100,000 and buy dog and not move the price 20%. That's, I believe, all they're trying
to achieve. And that does ultimately manifest itself in this big sell wall and also this big
buy wall, though though because you see oftentimes
it'll be on both sides and the way market maker strategies work and this is where there's maybe
an inkling of truth in all of this is that market makers are also trying to make money and they're
trading on these different algorithms and stuff so at certain periods they'll take all their coins
and put a sell wall and remove the buy wall and then at other times they'll like just have a huge buy wall and remove the sell wall. And it's based on
momentum and various things. And ultimately it's pretty standard market making stuff. And I like,
I definitely do not believe that like gate or this market maker has like some sort of goal
of suppressing dogs price or this sort of thing like some sort of goal of suppressing dog's
price or this sort of thing. I genuinely do think like the reason gate cares and like wants to have
this happening is because they want you to be able to go deploy, you know, a hundred thousand
dollars and get the same price for your dog and not move it like crazy. They want depth in their
order book. And then the market maker who, you know, either in-house or they're working with
may be trying to profit off different strategies as market makers do. And it's harder for me to
know exactly what those are. I will call out though, the way this whole order book strategy
works is like, you'll see this giant wall of like, it'll be like 40 million dog that you have to eat
through. That's like sitting right above the floor. What's actually happening there is like, you don't need to eat through that wall.
Some people will eat through that wall.
Okay.
There's no question that can happen, but you could just like, if the dog price just starts
going up, the market maker just moves that amount.
Their sell amount just goes up and up and up with it.
It doesn't just sit there.
Like a traditional person trying to break the floor of something, just drop 40 million dog at a certain price, leave for a week,
doesn't touch it. You have to break through that wall. Okay. But with date, what market makers do
is they're actually just like, okay, dogs going up on other exchanges, dogs eating into the wall
a little bit. What they'll usually do is just slide their
40 million dog up with it, right? And the whole idea is they want to keep their depth in their
market. Like this is an issue that like certain, you can go look at different exchanges, you know,
gate popular because they have depth. They solved a problem for people who want to deploy significant amounts of capital.
So that's pretty much my analysis on what's going on here.
There may be some manipulation aspects of market maker strategies where I don't think they're doing it because they hate dog or they want to make dog go down.
I think it also helps us in the up period.
I think if somebody does eat through that $40 million dog buy wall, I think they're probably going to then buy $40 million of dog, right? So it's all, uh,
it's all strategies that get run and there may be possibly some sort of trading aspect that the
market maker's doing here, but I think it helps us on the upswing at certain periods as well.
I don't think it's just, uh, Hey, let's go make dog periods as well. I don't think it's just a,
Hey,
let's go make dog go down thing.
I don't think that's true at all,
but yeah,
I think this is not something that's like going to go away. I don't think it's something specific to gate.io either.
I think there will be as dog grows.
I think market making exchanges will do in-house market making.
Other,
other people will do market making and trading around
dog. And it's kind of part of the game. I think if it can happen on Bitcoin, if it can happen on
the scale of Bitcoin, it can definitely happen. You can definitely do it to dog. So that's my
two cents. I don't think there's any malevolence at all. And I think it's probably just like
basic. I don't think there's even a person doing it. I think it's a bot that's just like make money trading this based on patterns and then make sure there's depth in the order book.
There's a market maker running a pretty standard strategy there.
And I don't think it's necessarily super healthy to kind of use that as the scapegoat if dog goes down 5% one day.
I think dog goes down 5% one day because it's a meme coin and it's extremely
volatile. And half the time it's going up and half the time it's going down. And whether gate
is market making or not, that's how it's going to be. That's just how this stuff works. Right.
So, and I don't, I do not, I don't think like we, you know, remove gate.io and this market making
from the equation. And then that's the thing holding dog back or something like this at all.
I just don't I don't view it that way personally.
But there may be some short in the moment strategies that the market maker is doing that may make the price go down for a little bit, may make the price go up for a little bit.
And this is basically my take.
I know it's not as exciting because I know a lot of people.
Look, I see all the tweets about this, right?
I have, you know, an individual started basically passionately tweeting about this every day since November.
And the Gate that I have team, you know, doesn't like it and has talked to that person.
And I mean, like, that person has gotten a lot of attention and I sort of stay out
of it because one, it's hard for me to know exactly what is happening.
Like to say for sure something is or isn't happening, but I don't think it's, if there
is any sort of trading manipulation, I just don't think it's coming from a place of like
hating dog or disliking dog.
Um, and I actually think probably some of the market-making benefits us
in certain moments as well.
So that's my take there.
It's kind of a boring take.
But, yeah, there's clearly some market-making going on, and that's it.
That is what it is.
So I personally don't worry too much about it.
I'm focused on other things.
I don't think that's going to be what makes or breaks dog
or really has much effect at the end of the day. Um, but yeah, short term, there could
be like on a specific day, if that market maker is running a strategy thinking that dog is going
to go down, they may do some specific thing that people don't like. Um, but I honestly believe like
honestly believe like they'll do the same thing on the upswing they're a market maker they just
they'll do the same thing on the upswing. They're a market maker. They just want to make money.
want to make money so yeah yeah that's my take there cool man thank you well nothing's gonna
break dog yeah like i'm just yeah there's so there's so many different aspects to what makes
a meme coin valuable and you know one market maker you know running you know 50 60 70 million dog
in a little strategy i'm not super worried about it at all.
Duxedo, what's up?
Hey, I got to jump to a call in 10 minutes, but I wanted to add for the market making.
First of all, as much as I hate to admit it, market making is not always bad.
The same way it doesn't allow a token, in this case, dog to skyrocket upwards. The same time when things are bad, it doesn't allow it token, in this case, DOC, to skyrocket upwards.
At the same time, when things are bad, it doesn't allow it to fall too hard.
But that aside, I just wanted to ask on the previous topic, Jan said something.
He said, hey, let's get this artist to Bitcoin.
And I want to ask because I come across artists all the time, and most of them from the other networks they they they want to explore
what's going on on bitcoin and they don't know where to start you guys are far more experienced
than i am on the on the subject where should i direct them to say an artist wants to create on
bitcoin an ordinal collection what's the first thing uh he should look at and where's the first thing he should look at and where's the first place he should go to?
One, read the Ordinals handbook.
The creator of Ordinals, Casey, wrote a great guide.
Highly encouraged spending one hour to read through all of that and actually understand the protocol, the benefits to the protocol.
And then I think Gamma is a nice platform.
It's like very artist specific for that'll help beat the needs of a lot of artists. And then if they want to release maybe more of like their own collection where they control it and own it more, maybe they could think of doing something a little bit more custom.
But I think Gamma is a great place to start.
Thank you, sir.
All right.
All right.
Well, very cool.
I think we're probably towards the end of the show here.
Trevor, Jan, do we have any final topics or anything we want to cover here?
Have a great start to your week, everybody.
Let's go, guys.
All right, guys. We'll have a good one. We'll see you all on Wednesday. Thanks for letting me up and letting me share. let's go guys alright guys
we'll have a good one
we'll see y'all on Wednesday
thanks for letting me up
and letting me share
appreciate you coming up
hanging out
we'll see y'all on Wednesday
we don't have enough people shilling guys
we want more people to come up to shill
usually what happens is
too many people come up to shill
and then we say no shilling
but right now it's a little bit we need that energy to come back.
So don't be afraid to come up here and shoot your shot.
Just obviously don't bring your your project account.
We'll let it up.
Come up as an individual and just like, you know, do the classic segue.
Hey, Leo. Hey, young. Great points.
By the way, my project does X, Y, Z.
OK, that's the show, guys.
Have a great start to your week.
We'll see you Wednesday night, 630 p.m.
Have a great one, Z. Okay. That's the show guys. Have a great start to your week. We'll see you Wednesday night, 6 30 PM. Have a great one, everybody. Cheers. .
