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The Ordinal Show
Recorded: June 18, 2025 Duration: 2:57:22Space Recording
Short Summary
The Ordinal Show discussed significant developments in the crypto space, including the launch of OG runes on Odin Fun, the listing of Magic Internet Money on a new exchange, and the upcoming BRC20 upgrade, which promises to enhance Bitcoin's programmability and trading capabilities. The conversation highlighted the growing interest in Bitcoin-based projects and the potential for increased adoption and investment in the ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. all right everybody welcome to the ordinal show happy wednesday everybody hopefully
world war three doesn't just completely break out here i think since our last show
the general sentiment has been that there's been escalations and tensions.
And I think, to be completely honest, like, you know, people on crypto Twitter are looking at
that through the lens of how it affects the market. But just in general, obviously, like,
it's, there's things more important than number go up. And, you know, hopefully,
hopefully all of that can hopefully deescalate or get worked out.
And there's not too much catastrophe there, but it's the kind of thing that could end, could escalate really fast.
And, you know, I'm hoping, hoping that things can get resolved there.
But, yeah, very, very kind of sad for people dying and all of this stuff.
It's, you know, yeah, I'm not good at speaking about this kind of stuff, but it's very tragic, I think, in general.
And hopefully that all gets worked out.
As far as things that have happened recently that I want to chat about,
we did just get OG runes on Odin Fun.
Bob has been teasing us and teasing us for many months
and has finally got OG runes support so you can bridge
your favorite runes over to ICP Network and Odin Fun and basically just seamlessly trade them.
I consider it essentially free and instant trading. I think maybe there's like technically
a very tiny network fee or like, you know, a couple milliseconds, but it's very, very fast and free. And yeah, that's finally available. And if you want to see your rune traded there,
you have to go basically add some liquidity, right? So Bob tweeted out a link. It's like a
Google doc that just explains how to add liquidity. Once there's, excuse me, once the liquidity
threshold is met, then the trading goes live.
So I think I'm pretty sure any rune can do this.
You just have to have the liquidity.
So, you know, I think Dog's working on getting some liquidity there so that you can trade it soon.
But that is all in progress.
Shout out to MIM.
Magic Internet Money just got listed on another centralized exchange, Arbit.
So shout out to those guys.
Very exciting to see another rune get listed also uh kind of an interesting uh development uh you know domo and the layer one
or layer zero foundation has been working on you know they're they're kind of version two of brc20
they're calling it brc 2.0 i think it's a clever name change. They move the dot to the left.
And that will be launching in August. So they announced the date. I believe it's August 16th.
Don't quote me on that. And BRC 20 will basically be experiencing an upgrade. And at a super high
level, what this means is BRC 20 is going to have basically an indexer upgrade. So traditionally when there's an upgrade to runes or ordinals or any indexer really,
the upgrade is usually just like, okay, you can do this one extra thing or tweak this.
This is a pretty big upgrade.
BRC20 indexers, at first just for six character tickers, this will be enabled.
And then like I think a month later, it'll be enabled for all tickers.
They're basically taking EVM and slapping it into the indexer, right? They're just,
you know, and I think it's a smart move. EVM is like a super developer, well-adopted developer
friendly platform that's like, it's not perfect, but everyone uses it and it has the mindshare.
And they're basically going to allow EVM developers to basically do an indexer model on Bitcoin.
And yeah, smart contracts on Bitcoin.
I think it's kind of similar to what Alkanes is doing.
Alkanes, I think, is using Wasm instead of EVM.
But yeah, so that's very exciting stuff.
Just like kind of, you know, the more the programmability experiments moving forward.
And I'll definitely be kind of watching that closely to see what happens there.
I definitely wouldn't just like totally fade Domo.
He's like a very smart dude that is pretty determined on like bringing programmability to Bitcoin.
And I think some interesting stuff very well may happen there.
But yeah, I also brought up today Stan.
Stan is the CEO of Stats Terminal.
And Stats Terminal just announced a pretty big thing alongside Magic Eden.
And instead of me trying to explain it, I would love to maybe just hear from Stan himself.
What have you guys been up to?
Lots of announcements recently.
How are you doing?
Yo, I'm good.
Do you hear me well, by the way?
You are a little bit quiet, but pretty good.
One, two, three. A little bit better now pretty good what one two three a little bit
better now Jan what would you say yeah I think it's good I mean I can hear him
well I think it's fine okay okay because I have like shitty Wi-Fi here I
actually actually went traveling a little bit I had I had like a little
personal trip planned and like yesterday because we were planning to go alive with magic
eden next week and i thought i'll come back home but then yesterday we pushed it a little bit
earlier and all day all day busy with that but yeah we we went live finally and uh we've been
working on this integration for quite some time.
All of the swaps right now at Magic Eden Frontend,
they will be powered by Sats Terminal.
And we are enabling aggregation with all of the platforms that are integrated with us.
So it would be better price.
It would be better order execution.
It would be basically better for users.
And yeah, it's live now now you can go test it also i think what is the best is that every time when someone will go to magic even
front end and they do transaction they will also earn our points so they will earn amber
and actually saw that quite quite a lot of quite a lot of big dog transactions were coming through our front end.
So people saw the announcement and they're like, oh, let's go.
Let's do some transactions.
But also, like you saw in the couple of last days, we started posting like whale alerts.
We had a lot of like big transactions coming, dog also with our great partner exverse wallet
so I think that's amazing and uh I I can say that in the last couple of days we see that activity is
ramping up a little bit yeah on the integration side uh it's it's pretty straightforward so we
just enabled aggregation for for all of the transactions coming on through their swaps and uh we will be trying to move and push
that forward right now we are trying to figure out how we can re-enable um we are re-enabling
runes decks right now uh we'll probably have that done tomorrow so we will add them back to the
roster uh we are looking into adding rich swap as well.
So we pretty much want to add every single platform
where you can do the runes trading.
So it would be like always, you know, the best price,
the best order execution.
So you will get the most out of your BTC.
Love it.
And just at a high level so that people kind of understand,
you know, where you fit into the ecosystem, where Sats Terminal fits into this.
Basically, on Ethereum, there's this protocol called OneInch that aggregates from all the different DEXs on Ethereum, like Uniswap and various other DEXs.
And then on Solana, you have Jupiter, which aggregates like Meteora and Radium and I think Orca and these various DEXs.
aggregates like Meteora and Radium and I think Orca and these various DEXs.
So basically the way it works is there's like these liquidity pools that exist and then
you have an aggregator that sits on top of them and then that's like basically providing
APIs like they'll have their own website and then that will be an API that basically uses
an algorithm to basically get the best price. So when you type into a swap, I want this mini dog or this mini whatever token,
you get the absolute best price.
At the end of the day, the user doesn't care at all really what's happening behind the scenes.
They just want to know that they're getting routed to the best price.
And this little kind of stack that has developed here in crypto of like the liquidity pool deck at the bottom
and then the aggregator and then the front end client. That front end client may be,
you know, the stats terminal website, or it might be exposed at Xverse. It might be exposed to
Magic Eden. You guys are kind of, I consider it like the middle layer in there. Could you just
explain how, like we did not have this for Bitcoin and runes a year ago can you explain how you came
to the conclusion that this was an important thing that ruins needed and you know just talk to us a
little bit about how you got here yeah 100 so um the conclusion it was not it was not that easy
actually because like so like to just to give a little bit of like recap, we started working together with Rich Hub, my partner and co-founder in August 2023.
And we've been building like a couple of things.
Then we switched to Bitcoin Eco at around like December 23, January 24.
We started building stuff for BRC20s.
Initially, we wanted to build like portfolio tracker, sort of like
debank kind of product. But then we quickly realized that's probably
not the best idea. Then we switched to, we were
building like super tweets. It's like Solana Blinks where you can buy like
ordinals and you can buy runes, BRC20s directly from your Twitter feed,
which was a quite, quite cool idea.
And we actually attracted a couple of great angel investors with that.
But then we quickly realized that's probably not the best business model.
It's not something that you can scale business with.
And I think around Bitcoin Nashville, which was July 24, we've been talking with many people there and everyone was like complaining
about the experience.
Everyone was complaining about like, you know, different fragmented
individual platforms that there was an issue with liquidity.
If you want to buy like a big, if you want to make a big transaction, like buy,
I don't know, 0.1 BTC of a dockc of dock it would likely you know fail because there's
insufficient liquidity or there would be a high slippage and we started thinking well we can
probably fix that if we will just slap all of those platforms together and have an aggregator
so we started thinking about this idea in august And then in September, I even remember it was, I think, 8th or 18th September, we built
like the prototype in like literally two days.
We showed it to a couple of people.
They were like, oh, this is exactly what we need.
And since then we were like actively pushing, pushing the aggregator and adding every single
platform that's going live, every single wallet that's supporting
Runes Trading, we've been adding them nonstop to the platform and pretty much doing good
right now as well.
Love it.
I love it.
I like the pivot mentality too, just like trying things, experimenting, not knowing
what's going to work and what's not.
Maybe on another conversation we can talk about the blinks.
I'm very curious because I was very excited when the blinks came out.
I know they haven't like totally taken off the way people thought,
but I'm fascinated by kind of just like how do we innovate with user experience
around making people kind of buy tokens in a more social way
and a more kind of frictionless way.
But back to runes.
Basically, the way runes trading has evolved and i kind of wanted to just
set the the context here for this so that people you know there's a lot of people who maybe are not
like super in the weeds on this stuff stan so i want to make sure people understand like what's
what's happened over the past year so when runes initially came out there there was these psbt swaps
right and it's actually still psbt swaps but we've moved
from an order book model to a liquidity pool model could you speak on that a little bit in that
transition that's happened and and maybe the improvements around user experience that um
have come with that yeah i think like to just not to over complicate it really and so so everyone
would understand i think like the
difference between how it was like let's say a year ago is that you're going to an individual
platform and you have to pick all of the lots yourself you're like i want to buy one thousand
dollars worth of this token this room you need to pick the lots yourself you need to look at the price it's like extremely inefficient
experience right and right now it's just you go to like a simple swap same swap as you have like
i don't uni swap whatever any other product in any other ecosystem and you just click one button
buy boom that's it you have you have your tokens in your wallet so I think that's the biggest difference
technology technology wise I think it's like in an essence in in the back end it's it's pretty
similar it's just like it's we are just combining all of those bundles right now in the background
right so our algorithm looks into let's say magic even bundles and we see okay
this are the cheapest ones we are combining them into one transaction we will take a couple of
tokens from let's say dot swap we will put it into one transaction boom you have it so just
for everyone to understand it's it's it's the way it works of course it's it's a little bit
more complicated right we we have like we have a couple of methods how that transaction works we use like three algorithms in the background
and the system decides how how you would structure this transaction there is a greedy algorithm there
is a a knapsack algorithm there is a third one which is sort of our custom one and that's how
we ensure that every time you get like the best price right
and i think this stuff gets super complicated really quickly but i think like maybe i'll give
an example you tell me if i'm understanding this correctly so i go to some swap interface to buy dog
and i want to buy a million dog and i want to just make sure I get the best price possible for buying my million
dog, right? You guys on the back end are basically saying, okay, we aggregate and look at a bunch of
different platforms. This is the magic Eden order book. This is the dot swap or the ruins attack
liquidity pools, various other providers. And you basically analyze, okay, we could just do
all of this in one dot swap. We could just say we're going to route just to dot swap.
And maybe in some cases, just do the entire million dog purchase through dot swap,
aggregates through you, the swap happens, everything's smooth. But in certain cases,
maybe the liquidity pool on dot swap for dog has, you know, kind of been hit recently or the price is down 3% higher there.
So maybe that doesn't make as much sense.
So then you look and analyze, OK, we can go over to this Magic Eden order book or the Runes Dex liquidity pool and let's try taking that.
and then maybe they're also, you know, don't have that much liquidity.
And then maybe they're also, you know, don't have that much liquidity.
So you say we can actually combine and make a route that goes through two different
liquidity sources.
So maybe we're going to buy five lots from the Magic Eden, you know, order book for runes
for dog.
And we're going to buy some, you know, dot swap tokens, which basically allow us to match
the equal amount
because you can't get like a perfect exact amount in an order book.
So you basically end up combining those two.
But then you also have to kind of, you know, manage your algorithm, have to manage the
complexities of, okay, well, if the Bitcoin network fees are this, we're now doing more
complicated, you know, two transactions.
And therefore, we're going to have to, you know, the fees will be higher. So will those fees offset the, you know, gains that
we got and the cheaper prices and bottom line, your algorithm solves all of that. So you,
you, you are that middle layer that handles all of the complexity around that algorithm,
which is I'm sure like decently complicated and just ensures that the end of the day,
all that matters is that I type in, I want a million dog. I'm getting like decently complicated and just ensures at the end of the day, all that matters
is that I type in, I want a million dog.
I'm getting the absolute best possible price.
Whether that means you're coordinating with three different DEXs doing, you know, four
different transactions, it doesn't matter.
I'm getting the most dog for my, for my Bitcoin.
That's essentially what you guys are doing, correct?
Yeah, that's, that's exactly the thing the difference between
like amms and and for example magic eden is that like and magic even when you when you want to buy
a dog for example right you're getting all of those bundles together and you don't influence
the price because those bundles are listed by someone like someone listed let's say 10 bundles
at the lower price we just sweep them it will change the floor price that's it it works like
same way as like ordinals but then if you go to amm and like you execute big transaction in the
amm it will influence the price right because that's how the amm works so usually usually the best way, like if you are, let's say if you are doing a smaller transaction,
it usually goes 100% through AMM. And if it's a bigger transaction, it would rather go through
the marketplace like Magic Eden, because with the bigger transaction, you would have 0% slippage.
So I think that's the key difference. And also you were mentioning one inch. I think that's, that's the key, the key difference.
And also you were mentioning one inch, I think that's a very
good example of like the, you know, user facing product. I
think also good example would be something like life. I think
life is a good example for like, sort of business to business
aggregator that middle layer that you were talking the product that let let's say someone has an app someone has a wallet they want to integrate our
aggregator they use our apis that would be more more like that product so we are trying to kind
of combine both of those ideas and actually i was meeting one inch guys in Paris and during the Paris blockchain week, we were talking with them.
They were quite interested in the product. We are still in touch with them.
We'll see. Maybe we will cook something interesting with them in the next couple of months.
But yeah, it's still too premature to talk about that.
it's still too premature to talk about that.
Okay, so what I'm basically hearing is that this evolution of, you know, token trading and liquidity on Bitcoin and like the tech stack has evolved.
We've got basically order books, like what Magic Eden has on their back end, as well as the liquidity pool model that Dotswap and RuneZex and others are doing.
is the liquidity pool model that Dotswap and RuneZex and others are doing.
And basically, you guys have made it where instead of having to go check five different
sites before you buy RuneZex to make sure you're getting the best price, you can just
go to the experts front end.
You can just go to the Magic Eden front end.
You don't need to check a bunch of different websites.
You just go to, you know, that terminal or whatever your trusted point of buying is.
And then you just say how much you want and you know you're getting the best price.
So that's, first of all, huge thank you from the Runes ecosystem for making that easier to make like bulk purchases like that.
I think all of the people who hold Runes here listening to this show are very appreciative of what you guys have been doing there.
I think it's also huge because it doesn't have to feel like you're buying lots anymore, right?
The aggregation, the liquidity pools, all of this has basically enabled people to essentially have what is an identical interface to that classic kind of unit swap, swap interface that everybody kind of knows and loves.
And this was a huge complaint a year ago.
Like, I cannot tell you how many times I talked to people who were like, screw runes, you know, this is like the shittiest
experience I've ever had. You know, I can't, I can't imagine just like sweeping, you know,
sweeping fun meme coins, like I sweep NFTs, this is ridiculous. And, you know, you guys, you know,
have been really a big part of solving that and a lot
a lot of different teams have worked on that but a lot of progress made there and then also like
the sniping stuff has all been solved um through various means and this is all trustlessly psbt
which is very exciting so to the end user they're just signing a psbt transaction um and trustlessly
you know they're guaranteed to get their tokens if that transaction
is executed, right? So it's all very, very cool, the things that have happened over the past
year. I'm curious now, thinking forward, though, let's think big picture. You know, and Stan,
I don't know you super well. So like, we've not talked about this or prepared this. I literally
just messaged you right before the show started and was like, come up. How about the idea of instead of just tapping into liquidity
on Bitcoin L1, could your protocol grow to be cross-chain where say I want to, basically my
goal is to get a million dog in my expert wallet know, ledger cold storage situation, right? That's how I want my dog. Um, could you go fetch half of that, you know, million, like you,
you get 500,000 dog from dot swap, for example, but then you say, Oh, Solana has 500,000 dog.
And we could actually bridge that over behind the scenes for you. Um, and get you your 500,000
dog that way. And then ultimately you get more dog.
You get your dog at a cheaper price,
but you would have to basically be reaching out into the Bitcoin L2s,
reaching out into other blockchains to get that liquidity,
ultimately creating what I consider to be very important for runes,
which is like a synced up,
like not this like crazy arbitrage situation,
like a synced up liquidity like not this like crazy arbitrage situation, like a synced up
liquidity cross chain for these tokens, which feels like the kind of direction that liquidity
is headed.
Again, I think centralized exchanges are, I don't want to say on their way out, but the
model of the centralized exchange, I think all of that liquidity is coming on chain.
You're seeing this happen really fast. And I think it's going to only accelerate over the coming years. And I
think there's going to basically be, you know, the aggregation won't just be on a specific chain,
it'll be pulling from different chains and just getting you your tokens on whatever chain you
want it on. Have you guys thought about building like a prototype for that of like grabbing from the Solana dexes to get the dog and bridge it back over? Is that something
even technically we could do for runes? I'm just kind of curious your thoughts there.
So we've been definitely discussing that in the past, but right now we kind of prioritized
a little bit different things. We did a lot of improvements on our UI.
We added a couple of tools that would help traders to come to our front end and easily do proper trading.
We are adding right now trading graphs.
So we were working with a couple of partners to make sure that you can go.
Let's say you want to buy dog, like
how do you get like people to go to your platform to buy dog, for example.
Just swap is not enough, right?
People want to go to your platform.
They want to see, oh, price went a little bit down.
I want to be smart.
I want to buy it a little bit cheaper, it make my dog back bigger so we are trying
to add a little bit of those trading features first we already added the side panel so when
you connect the wallet you click same as same as uni swap yeah you click on your wallet you see all
of your balances how much bitcoin how much rooms you have in your wallet so we are adding like
those i would say low hanging fruits uh those features that
would help you to do more efficient trading and then like next step would be to consider what we
can do uh either with uh integrating um like in terms of cross-, it would be a little bit more difficult task to do.
I'm pretty sure it's possible.
And we were discussing that.
But it's something that we would need to, you know, be a little bit more well prepared.
So I just don't want to give like empty promises like, hey, Leo, yes, we are writing that on Monday.
No, of course, that's not happening on Monday or something.
We would need a little bit more time and think about how it would work.
But I think in the end of the day, the technology is coming to the space.
I think what is more important right now is that we will push the distribution further.
Like, you know, all of the news that happened with Kraken, for example, that's incredible.
That helps with distribution a lot people people are coming back to rooms and they're like
oh my god i faded truons i was not building on ruins i was not building the technology blah blah
blah and now they see that we're listing on big exchanges like distribution is coming i think
right now that's important because there's so many builders right now you know we know like how much like
maybe 10 20 companies that are on the surface level but in reality they're like 500 maybe a
thousand or something builders that are dormant and all they need is that distribution push so i
think like if we continue like relentlessly working on making the space better and bringing more and more people
from outside uh to bitcoin that will bring us incredible achievements on the technology side
because builders they need to see okay the proof of concept is there there is a market we can
actually build something sustainable you know we can actually make a couple of dollars
to pay for our food, for a new screen,
for a laptop, for internet and keep building.
So I think that's what's important right now
because what we definitely don't have
is that we don't have shortage of talent
and resources in this space.
And I can say like every time you go to like a new conference,
like we went to Vegas, for example, I was meeting like incredible people.
I didn't know that some people are working on products like that in Bitcoin
FI ecosystem around ruins, around like Bitcoin loans, around bridging.
So, yeah, I think, guys, like what you're doing with Ordinal Show and what all of the companies and I see a lot of familiar faces right now in this space, like what we all are doing, it's extremely important because we are pretty much paving the way for those new builders to come in this space.
Yeah, could not agree more. I think the vision is like fairly clear. We've got a ginormous blockchain and, you know, we need to unlock a token economy and
an economy on top of that blockchain.
And, you know, how that exactly is going to happen or how that's going to work or the
exact technical implementation.
It's not as clear.
We have to go build those things and figure it out.
But we see the vision and we're going to go unlock this.
And yeah, like just relentlessly
pushing forward and a year ago when you know runes kind of crashed for the first time and
everybody was like oh this i'm getting sniped the lot suck you know dog is down a bunch like all
this stuff you could easily imagine and this is what i think it's the
norm what really happens is like all these different l1 blockchains that vcs are pumping
out every month that they have this big moment at the start but then they just die like the the
devs leave the people leave move to the next one and like that has not happened with runes runes
is actually the number of developers has grown
over the past year and people said okay it's true like people are flooding us because there's these
user experience issues but we're going to go solve them we're going to do what engineers are supposed
to do which is go solve problems and they're telling us there's a bunch of problems i'm looking
at the space now it feels like we've solved a bunch of the problems we're now ready for prime
time again and yeah i think it's thanks to, you know, builders like you, Stan, that are kind of
bringing this vision to life.
And yeah, we're just going to relentlessly show up every day and make it, you know, just
a little bit better here.
You know, push a little bit harder, improve one thing a day kind of thing.
And eventually, yeah, like one way or another, we're going to unlock this token economy on Bitcoin. I'm very, very high confidence in that.
And I think the opportunity is massive. So I appreciate you coming up here and sharing. I
wanted to give some folks up here or anybody who wants to come up on stage and ask you questions,
you know, a chance to do that. But I'm just like super, super excited for basically all the people who, you know, flooded runes, maybe rightfully so a year ago to kind of come back and get to check
out the new stuff that we built and for it just to be way easier for people to buy runes now. And
yeah, it's a lot of hard work behind the scenes that actually made this happen. It's not something
that just magically occurred. A lot of work and experimentation
went into that, and I don't think people
will even probably appreciate or realize
that when they come back and buy runes again, but
yeah, like, I
definitely see it. I definitely
appreciate it, and I think the people listening to this
show do as well. I want to go over to
Tuxedo. What's up, man? Do you have a question
for Stan? Hey, what's
up, guys? Hey, Stan. What's up, man you have a question for stan hey what's up guy hey stan what's up man
you good it's been a while man i what's up i got isn't is it like super deep night for you no
it's it's such a deep night it couldn't be deeper man you managed to get me hyped up with such a
such a low frequency voice.
It's amazing.
Usually I get hyped up when somebody comes on stage and he's like, I mean, emphasizing on words and, you know, high-pitched voices.
But you're barely alive, man.
You're probably about to sleep and you got me so hyped up, I switched on my computer.
I got to go back to work, man.
I got to build now.
I mean, congratulations, man.
Congratulations.
Obviously, I know you also in person.
I know how hardworking and also fun guy you are.
I couldn't be more proud of that ceremony today.
Looking forward to a very, very fruitful future.
And as both you and Leo mentioned mentioned i see many familiar faces many
builders here i honestly i'm going back to work now it's 3 a.m i'm going back to work thanks time
3 a.m now we know your time zone haha you're doxed we're coming we're coming to you
get ready get ready we're coming for you yeah guys it's also deep night so you can probably
guess where I'm at
thanks for great words
and see you soon
we all are coming to
BTC summit organized
by beautiful co-host
of this ordinal show
so see you there let's go let's go 69 days sign for you
yeah yeah what's the what's the latest and greatest man give us a scoop dude everybody
wants to know man I don't know what's the latest greatest I am I'm just working very hard every day guys has anybody figured out how to mute co-host somebody could help
me what how to mute yeah you gotta give us some alpha I brought Bunzy on the
show last weekend he would he absolutely refused to give any alpha man I was here
man I was here I heard it I heard it that was disappointment man that was like
one like one word that was disappointment but man. That was like one word. That was disappointment. All they did was try to dunk on runes and would not actually be alpha.
Cool stuff on Alkain.
Give us some alpha on Bitcoin Summit.
What's going on?
I mean, alpha.
I don't know if it's even an alpha anymore because people know it.
People know it.
People know me.
When I do something, I go all out.
So, you know, it's going to be the greatest fucking Bitcoin builder conference in the world, you know.
And and yeah, it's coming together very nicely.
We have a bunch of new announcements.
New partners are coming through.
I mean, you guys know Pizza Ninjas are going to be doing some stuff in Hong Kong as well.
We announced it on Monday.
Trevor is not here today, but we can probably talk about it next week.
You know, Vito is here he is like selling plushies you know to people all over the world now you know those those
plushies are flying off the shelves you know it's like literally i'm hearing people are just buying
the tickets because they want to get the plushie and i'm like bro like what the hell are you doing
here you know so uh so yeah like you know that's happening um and uh and yeah man like you know? So, so yeah, like, you know, that's happening. And, and yeah, man, like,
you know, it's, it's, it's still, I mean, we still have more than two months. So yeah,
there is still some time, but yeah, I think the alpha in general for Hong Kong this year
is that, you know, we're also working together with the Bitcoin Asia guys, the Bitcoin magazine,
they just hosted Vegas.
And yeah, like, you know, they're saying themselves that they're going to double the amount of people
that are going to come to the conference compared to last year.
So last year was like the first year that they came to Asia
to host this big event.
They had like 5,000 people coming through.
And they're telling me that they're going to have around 10,000 people.
They changed the venue.
Actually, the venue is finally the good venue in Hong Kong.
You know, like I've been going to so many events,
and there are a few venues,
and some of the venues are kind of like far away,
and, you know, it's kind of annoying to go there.
But this year, Bitcoin Asia shows the one that is right in the city center of Hong Kong,
which is amazing.
And our venue is basically
just like five ten minutes away from there so that's also amazing so you know if you if you
come to hong kong for a week which i think you should do if you're coming at all then yeah you're
just gonna book hotel close to any of the venues that uh these events are and you're just gonna be
able to either walk or just take a five minutes
taxi or one metro station and you're there which is amazing right so so i think yeah i think we're
gonna see like a lot of stuff a lot of side events a lot of communities coming through again yeah
like leo i know you're probably not gonna join us in person uh i kind of gave up on that idea you
know asking you on the show every day.
But yeah, it's going to be dope.
And I hope that all of you guys are going to come through.
Ordinal show, we're also going to do something.
I mean, you know, we're going to try to do some sort of like a podcasting or something.
We'll see what we can do.
Last year, we did try.
We failed a little bit because it was very hard to manage. But, you know be cool to do something as well you know like uh throughout the day maybe maybe get
something going but uh but yeah we'll see man it's gonna be great i don't wanna i wanna have
like a live streamer running around just like live stream like i wanna yeah we i feel like
not a bad idea man that's Not a bad idea at all.
People on Twitter experience these conferences,
Yon,
even if they're not there,
like no joke,
our feed for that entire day is just like people.
I actually like it,
man.
Okay.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
I'm going to,
I'm going to probably hire somebody or I'm going to,
I'm going to like give somebody,
you know,
like maybe,
yeah,
I'm going to hire somebody who is kind of passionate
about this to be running around with the camera the whole thing.
With the camera and a mic. Give them a mic and have them like interview people.
Yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to set it up. Okay. Okay. That's a good idea.
We did like hire like a media people last year to like sit there and interview people,
like a like a media people last year to like sit there and interview people but it wasn't live
like it was basically just recording videos and then editing it and then posting it i i actually
believe they never even posted it it was kind of yeah we we failed a little bit on that side but
doesn't matter uh you know we we learn we improve and we keep moving forward. But this is a good idea. Actually, having somebody running around
with like a camera or even just a phone,
like live stream,
because the internet is going to be pretty good there.
We're setting up like a specific Wi-Fi there for us.
So that should be good.
And yeah, just like mic and interview people.
And yeah, like Leo, I like it.
Okay, let's do it.
I was like kind of afraid.
I was afraid that you were going to say that we need to have a robot running around, you know, and you can talk to people for eight hours.
I mean, we could do the robot idea.
If you can't get the live stream idea, do the robot idea.
All I'm saying is we need some more, like, public relations type situation for the DGens who sit in their parents' basement.
Like, we got to, you know, we got to get everybody involved.
And, like, people thought I was a woman last year.
Like, there was a, you know, a lot of people thought that I was Elizabeth
because of the way a photo was made.
And AI, and AI, too.
That was the thing.
I think the AI was in Portugal.
I don't know.
Or no, no, no, that was in Hong Kong.
There's also another alpha, a pretty good one, a fun one.
So we're kind of collaborating
with Pizza Ninjas
and we might do like a big,
massive like Pizza Ninjas themed
like dog army event.
So keep a lookout.
Like you'll come for the BTC Summit,
have fun over there,
get your plushie
and then like have a blast after
at some venue. uh for sure hopefully
hopefully young could use his uh negotiation skills and and secure like a nice spot for us
without us getting like screwed too hard no i got you i got you guys i got you but this is awesome
man like you know yeah this is like i like this right because obviously you know i have a small
team for this uh but it's
so hard to organize everything because there is just so many moving parts i know taxido is here
so we're also going to be doing a hackathon with middle you know they're they're coming through uh
they're sponsoring but also like you know they have some open source tooling for bitcoin and
and stuff like that and so you know we're going gonna be doing a hackathon which is kind of independent of the conference but like we really want to kind of provide all different kinds of
experiences for people obviously locally in Hong Kong and the ones that are going to be coming
from Asia because it's much easier for them to let's say fly from Singapore to Hong Kong that's
just like four hours flight but you know for people that are coming from all around the world
of course like these side events these parties there, there's going to be so much stuff. I mean, Bitcoin Asia
themselves, they're going to be doing a huge after party on Friday that week. They're going
to be doing a bunch of like other things. So, yeah, like I really think that like what I like
about this time and this event specifically is that it's very unique right like you know we have
discussed this a couple times on the show i i just want to repeat that i think it's very unique
because the kind of audience that you're going to meet the kind of people that you're going to meet
in hong kong is going to be fundamentally different compared to people that you meet in Vegas or in Paris or you know in other places
just because you know it's going to be predominantly Asian right like a lot of people from China a lot
of people from all over Asia they usually just don't go to to the US it's much harder for them
to get visas it's it's really complicated for them and so uh so they just show up in Hong Kong and so
if you guys are really
interested in connecting with those communities and obviously there's a lot of people that love
dog here there's a lot of people that have pizza ninjas there's a lot of people that have
billy glasses you know and and stuff like that and so if you're interested in hanging out with
those people then uh just come here you know it's gonna be really if you come for four or five days
you know you're gonna really get a lot of out of it.
And then what you should do, obviously, since you're already fucking here, you should go and spend some time in Thailand or go to Philippines or, you know, go to Vietnam or something.
Because it's just like two, three hours flight from Hong Kong and you can just chill for a week.
Man, that's a great idea.
And for sure, like I was, so I was telling my wife, like, hey, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm's a great idea. And for sure, like I was,
so I was telling, telling my wife, like, hey, like, I'm, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to Hong Kong. And then she was like, okay, cool. Like for how many days? I was like, for like three or four.
And she looked up and she's like, you're freaking crazy. You're going to go to Hong Kong for three
to four days? Like what? So I definitely got the approval from her,
like to definitely at least like be there for like two weeks,
maybe five, five days in Hong Kong.
And then yeah, man, you have to do it, man.
I see Vincent in the audience.
He was in Vietnam.
He told us he was on a vacation a couple months ago,
I guess in Vietnam.
And you know, it's, it's really cool.
Like, I mean, I will tell you like one thing, I don't know where exactly Vincent went in Vietnam and you know it's it's really cool like I mean I will tell you like one thing
I don't know where exactly Vincent went uh in Vietnam but but Da Nang which is like a small
place in Vietnam which is actually pretty cheap and pretty cool like it's literally one and a
half hours flight from Hong Kong it's like it's like so close that that you could probably even
swim there if you wanted to you know so so basically you can you can just like take a flight it's so cheap it will cost you like
obviously you know you don't have to fly business for this kind of you know like short distance so
you just you just get the cheapest flight it will cost you like 80 or something like that or 100
bucks max and you just go from h Kong to Vietnam to Da Nang.
And man, like I went there once,
like you can have like a crazy good massage
for like 10 bucks, you know?
And like you can have good food and everything.
So yeah, like, you know, it's so easy in Asia,
especially if you're in Hong Kong,
because Hong Kong is really kind of the center.
It's the biggest, one of the biggest airports.
I think maybe the biggest in Asia.
I'm not sure about Singapore.
Singapore is also a pretty big airport, and they have, like, a lot of flow there.
But I believe that Hong Kong is, like, the biggest airport in Asia.
And, you know, there are flights everywhere all the time.
So you got to do it.
You know, like, you have to make sure and maybe even bring your wife with you if you can and just hang out for a week bro i can't because because i have a kid uh do uh
do sometime in july uh end of july oh wow nice so so for sure uh like i'll go there like one or two
weeks and i feel like when i come back things are gonna get real so for sure i'll definitely like
you use that little time left and then come and you know, just stay on top of the family
But man, I'm so pumped about this event like as as pumped as Vegas and it's new
I've never I've been to Vegas many times, but I haven't been to Hong Kong like it's it's a big thing and and there's so many like
Awesome people that I met from Vegas that we're going to meet them and more people.
So super pumped.
And here's another little alpha.
There's like a huge announcement from, I won't say exactly what it is,
but I'll just mention the people that are, or the projects that are involved.
And that'll be Xverse, Dotswap, and Sats Terminal, and Dog of Bitcoin, of course.
So like, yeah, we'll make a major announcement over there stay tuned is that what we're doing right j-dog i think i
think ghost has been front running some announcements i think he he he's ghost he used the word we're
kind of doing a collaboration with pizza ninjas i feel like trevor probably wanted to like coordinate
doing a collaboration with Pizza Ninjas.
I feel like Trevor probably wanted to
coordinate on the announcement.
No, you know, Vito is so excited
about these things. This is what I'm talking about.
John and Bunzy, these guys are weak.
They're not giving us the alpha.
Man, we are giving you all the fucking alpha.
Don't be so harsh on us, man.
We're telling you everything, man.
I have the alpha.
I have the real alpha.
Lio, Jan hired
very small minivans, like bongo-sized minivans,
to kidnap high-profile guests.
You can go to BTC Summit's profile, and you will see proof of what I'm saying.
It's true.
No, I'm only going to be kidnapping you, Tuxedo.
That's what I'm going to be doing.
You arrive at the airport.
We're going to have a train. You arrive, and i got you and and you're never leaving hong
kong anymore tuxedo that's what we're gonna do can you kidnap me in a more luxurious fashion
please i don't mind the process just i mean the van is horrible man man what you don't get it
right the most important thing about the when is that
the plate says BPC man like that's the most important thing I don't care about
the luxury inside you know we're gonna put a chain on the dog this time and
and and just because of you Jan like we know you've been you've been scoping out
that dog for a minute so we're gonna going to chain it down. And, you know, we'll just do our part for that.
And not worry about the dog staying in Hong Kong.
No, but the thing is, you know, I mean, jokes aside, like, you know, we have seen, like, I probably wouldn't go to Paris these days for a crypto conference, you know, like anymore.
After all the news that are happening.
The good thing about Hong Kong and Asia is like this stuff doesn't happen like it's just extremely safe and
you know it's uh i don't know i've been here for 10 years in asia i mean obviously there are
probably some countries in asia where it could be more dangerous i don't know i have never been to
those but but if you're in hong kong if you're in places like this it's extremely safe um yeah it's
it's it's cool. So you guys don't
have to be worried. I'm making that tuxedo, but that could be for different reasons. But other
than that, it's extremely safe, guys. Can you say the same for Vietnam? Because I'm really
interested in the whole package you described, like 25 000 dog for the flight ticket and uh happy ending
massage was it was i didn't say any of that tuxedo okay don't put words in my mouth don't put words
in my mouth okay you can you can do whatever massage you want but but i i don't have any
experience with that okay um but dog does not endorse using dog uh yeah exactly we don't endorse any bullshit like that
but but man i mean in terms of like like safety and this like you know vincent can also like tell
you guys i mean i don't know if vincent this was your first time in vietnam how you kind of felt
like i've been there a couple times and you know it's it's definitely very safe i mean asia in
general especially in the big cities um you know it's it's extremely safe you know you don't have to be worried especially as like a big
guy you know like you know you come as a as a foreigner like you know you're a relatively big
guy compared to everybody uh so so like i think i think it's fine you know yeah uh it was my first
time going to vietnam it's um where my parents from. And I got to visit Da Nang, which you were talking about, which is where my mom was from. And she was, you know, living in poverty at the time. And after the Vietnam War, they came here to America. And that's kind of, you know, the rest is history. So, yeah, it's very beautiful. The people are very nice.
But I do believe that, you know, there's a huge tech industry that's booming in Vietnam right now and just in Asia in general.
I just like to see Vietnamese people, you know, I see Bitcoin logos in some stores, which is really cool.
And so, you know, when Vito, you go over there to Hong Kong, it's a culture shock.
But it's even more of a culture shock when you come back.
Because if you're there for even just like a week,
and you come back to the States, it's like holy moly.
You forget how privileged you are to have opportunities here
where you can make plushies while over there sometimes.
Not many people have that opportunity.
So it's a great time to be grateful. Yeah, man, I agree.
Vietnam is pretty dope.
All right.
So bottom line, everybody go to the Bitcoin Summit website,
buy your tickets.
You can get the dog plucky ticket if you would like,
and then book a, you know, book a trip to spend a week on the beach in Vietnam or something.
Make a trip of it.
I like it, guys.
I like it.
And you can only pick up the plushie if you go to Hong Kong.
Is that correct, Vito?
You have to pick it up.
Yes, that's correct.
Vito, you should definitely do that.
If you guys are trying to game my system here,
I'm watching you guys.
I'm fucking watching you.
I just didn't want people to go be buying the ticket just to get the plushie
because i think some people will do this if this is the case i'm just gonna bump the price you
know i'm gonna i'm gonna 3x the price you know that's so funny and and it's it's crazy there's
literally at least like 10 people they hit me up up. But they're good people because they're not just, how should I say, just worried about getting the plushies.
They're like, OK, look, I'll buy the plushie and I'm definitely willing to give the ticket to someone that's not able to get the ticket.
So they've also been offering that. And I don't know, we might have to figure
out some way to do that little, how should I say, or facilitate for that to happen. So we'll make
sure that none of the tickets actually go to waste and that if someone is from Hong Kong or
from the local countries or cities close to it, then by all means we will utilize that to the fullest.
Did you guys notice how sinister Jan's laugh was when he said he was going to 3x the price?
That was like a legit sinister laugh
that was natural. That wasn't something he forced.
That was a natural voice.
That's it, man.
Maybe 4x now.
Okay, that became... Stop, stop.
That became forced. It was the first one was very authentic, stop, stop, that became forced.
It was the first one was very authentic.
That one was a little more forced.
But, okay, so bottom line, go get your tickets for Bitcoin Summit.
What's the date again, Jan?
It's August 27th, and then 28th, 29th is Bitcoin Asia.
So get the tickets
and make sure that you can be in Hong Kong,
let's say on the 26th
so that you guys can chill for at least some time,
relax, and then we hit it on 27th.
Then I guess Vito is going to be doing the party
or something, I don't know.
They still haven't announced it,
so I'm not going to be doing the announcement for them,
but they're working on it. So then something like that is going to be happening and then uh
and then obviously bitcoin asia conference and and also a bunch of other side events i i know that
there's going to be so much i'm actually going to curate it i'm going to work on it this weekend
guys just don't have time throughout the week so much on these things but this weekend i want to
curate all the different side events and everything that's going to be happening in Hong Kong so that we have like one list for everybody who is coming.
But yeah, plan on being there on like the 26th, I would say, or even 25th if you guys want to like, if you usually have jet lag or something so that you can get into the right mood so that you enjoy it to the fullest.
Yeah, go get your tickets now, but, like, more importantly, book your flights too.
Like, you'll end up paying, like, way too much if you book it, like, two weeks before.
So get your flights booked.
Get your tickets booked.
I think Jan has early bird pricing now, so it's, you know, get it before he 3Xs it overnight on you.
Yeah, yeah, get it, guys, because, you know, these dope guys are going crazy on me,
so we may have to do it.
Plus, if you're flying from the States,
get premium economy.
I just feel like if you're going to fly
all the way over there, don't do economy.
It's, like, the worst thing,
especially if you're stuck between people.
Get premium at the lowest
if you can't afford first class.
It's just a long flight.
You're going to want to take a nap.
Stay away from spirit.
I don't know why, but I have this super funny vision in my head of if I did go to this conference, I'm like Jan.
See, Jan won't do this, but I have this vision in my head that Jan is going to make himself the major sponsor of the event.
And on the backdrop of the stage, it's, like, the Bitcoin Summit brought to you by Jan.
And then it's, like, a big face of Jan.
But, Jan, I don't think you'll probably do that.
But for some reason, I find it, like, entertaining.
I'm waiting for your sponsorship, Leo.
That's what I want to do.
I want to do Bitcoin Summit brought to you by Leonidas.
Do I still get my speech that I get to give?
Of course, man.
Of course, man.
I'm counting on you.
We're going to make sure that we have everything set up for you so you can hype people up.
Again, like last year, actually, people really enjoyed your speech last year about runes and ordinals.
It was really cool. So we're going to do it again man it's gonna be awesome hell yeah looking forward to it okay uh stan i know you're getting probably tired wanted to give you just like a last
opportunity to share anything that you're excited about or any parting words for folk um so that
you can get to bed if you want to if you want want to hang out, of course, you're obviously welcome.
But wanted to kind of formally end that segment there because we did get derailed a little
bit.
Yeah, no, thanks.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for having us.
I think one more time, just wanted to say that I think you guys are doing an amazing job.
And I think it's very, very important that we're pushing the distribution further.
We are trying also to
spread the word a little bit about about Bitcoin about runes about what's happening we're also
hosting spaces on Wednesday probably probably looked in into into someone's playbook and
decided to do it on Wednesday as well uh but yeah uh well thanks for having us uh stay tuned for all the updates on sads terminal
site we are working actually on one more big integration that will likely go live next week
and also we are adding the graphs so it would be easier to trade and one more time just wanted to
mention that every time when you go to such terminal you
do transaction you earn amber and amber is a very valuable resource that will probably bring something
a side of luck to you wink wink um and uh yeah that's that's pretty much it. One more time. Wait, Jan, I thought that the lawyers tell you to say that it has no value.
Isn't that technically what you're supposed to say?
Can you give a little alpha, just like dig in a little bit, if you want to share any more, just a little bit more details here?
Because, actually, we have some traders on the show who critique us for not being enough, giving enough alpha.
Could you just share, like, give a little bit more context into, like, this is basically the points for Sats Terminal,
and it's tied to your wallet, basically. Is that correct?
So, it's a points program.
Right now, we are running the first season, which will last until mid-September.
And after mid-September, we will-September we will flush all of the
rewards slash all of the rewards significantly we will cancel some of the quests and people
will be farming much less getting much less amber and getting much less rewards with us and
we are obviously doing that because we want to highlight the early supporters of our brand
because we believe that people that supported those first hundred,
first thousand, first 10,000 transactions that went through our front end, they're very
important because these are the building blocks for us.
This were like our first steps.
And in the end of the day, we want to build a big business, a billion dollar company.
And we want to reward everyone who would be with us on that long and exciting route.
I'm very abstract, right?
Because you don't want to say too much.
You don't want to say too much.
It's a little bit premature to talk about some of the things here.
But I think everyone here is extremely well-educated and smart.
So you can probably put two and two together.
Okay. Well, very cool, Stan stan i appreciate you coming through and sharing and yeah guys uh go buy runes go share runes with
your friends um let's uh let's let's do the mass adoption thing that stan was talking about earlier
and gaining awareness outside of just our own ecosystem. I think like it's not a very exciting future to me to just say, hey,
let's have the like, you know, 25,000 super active people here,
just like PVP each other for all the time.
I think it's a way,
way more exciting future to onboard millions of people and really grow the
space. And, you know, that means to grow the number of people,
but that also means grow the value of the assets,
grow the number of assets, grow the number of assets,
grow the number of developers building here.
I think that's a super important metric.
Grow the number of venture capitalists, you know, writing checks into companies like,
you know, StatsTerminal, X-First and stuff.
And let's, yeah, let's just keep growing the space and, you know, heads down.
Keep pushing forward, guys.
It's on for you, bro.
Awesome. Amen. Thank you. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Bye-bye, just going to sleep. Keep pushing forward, guys. It's on for you, bro. Awesome.
Amen.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
I'm going to sleep.
Okay, get some rest, man.
See you next week.
Bye.
Have a good night.
Bye-bye.
Okay, guys.
I'm trying to think here.
Yeah, did anybody else have any questions or thoughts?
Like, Jan's obviously here to answer questions about the Bitcoin Summit.
Or if we're done talking about that, we can move to another segment.
But yeah, Tuxedo, what's up?
I have a quick confession to make.
So I've been in the industry for six, almost seven years now.
Most of it, I mean, you know, the EVM side of things, Solana and whatnot.
In February, I went to attend Consensus in Hong Kong.
I didn't know practically anybody from the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Practically anyone, no one.
Like three months later, I am so eager to go back and attend YAN's summit, BTC summit, I mean.
And like, I already feel like I know people on a Web3 friend level.
I'm so excited to see you guys again in person.
I had the best time in Vegas.
This shit didn't ever happen in all the other networks I worked.
I genuinely want to say that this is a special ecosystem.
special ecosystem. That's why I'm so excited to build on it.
That's why I'm so excited to build on it.
Yeah, look, I think from kind of day one, like Casey released ordinals, right? And
it just kind of grew up out of nothing. I think like very, very important from day one. And like,
this was something that we all kind of set is just like culturally was an important foundation
was that we are not going to be this like transient come through you know do a bunch
of trading and then move to the next thing like it's not like you can send tokens to billions of
dollars and get massive attention and mindshare um for your blockchain or for your ecosystem
by doing a bunch of like catering to that type of activity but we we decided like, no, like, this is Bitcoin. We are stewards of a
technology and a blockchain and a cryptocurrency that's like very important in the world. And,
you know, we are building on what is basically a much, there's history here, there's a strong
foundation that predated ordininales and runes.
And like, we're just the next chapter of that. And, you know, it's very important that we, yeah, we, you know,
host the ordinal show twice a week we've been doing it beyond. So, I mean,
we've probably done 200 plus ordinal shows, which is, you know, awesome.
But we, we think like that,
that culture and that community aspect is like, it's critical.
Initially, when this all started, we were kind of bonded together by the fact that we were a very small number of people.
We were basically the underdogs.
And there was this big bully who were basically the maxis who were, you know, very nasty, just to be totally honest.
And it might seem silly now.
We like kind of make fun of them now. At the time, it actually didn't feel like that. There was a lot of it was basically
the entire Bitcoin ecosystem at the time hated us, like religiously hated us. And, you know,
we just kept moving forward, we kept persevering. And I think we had to have each other's backs.
And then, you know, we went through many periods of expansion, compression, expansion, compression.
And then I think we've just kind of, you know, finished up our last period of compression and are kind of starting to expand again, which is exciting.
I think people, I would say in general, people prefer the expansion periods over the compression periods.
But, yeah, it's like, look, you know, we got here through people.
This is a people thing.
This is a people thing. This is a culture thing.
Yes. You know, like you could always technically build, do these things on Bitcoin.
The problem was you would have been harassed and you didn't have a community who would support you.
And like, that's what was missing, right? And that's probably why ultimately we've gotten to where we are today. It's the people.
So, yeah, we're going to keep hosting the Ordinal show.
You know, Jan's going to keep hosting conferences.
We're going to keep throwing parties at events.
You know, we're going to just keep showing up.
And, yeah, I think, like, again, I myself have been participating in some level of PvP in the past.
I think there's always levels of that.
But I think like we're,
my mental model is that it's like us versus the rest of the world.
And yeah, the rest of the world
doesn't necessarily even know about us.
And they're completely fine
to not do any of the decentralization
and security and inherit the properties of Bitcoin
that we think, you know, makes this space really, really special from other ecosystems.
And, you know, we have to fight for that.
And, you know, it's something that we all share.
And it's a commonality that we can kind of rally behind.
And yeah, we, yeah, we have to support each other, Tuxedo.
So you came here and, you know, you gave a great speech at like the dog party
and have been showing up to the Ordinal Show
during a compression period, right?
It's like a lot of people will show up to the Ordinal Show
when everything's at all-time highs
and not as many people show up
when everything's been going down every month for six months.
So yeah, man, look, we appreciate you coming here
and authentically being interested in the space.
And yeah, bro, like I hope people support you because you're supporting us.
You know what, Leo?
Really quickly, you know, I totally understand the negativity you experienced with the Bitcoin maxes.
But these guys, they always push everything forward.
I think they are the magical key in the whole crypto industry.
I think they are the ones that gave birth, you know, not willingly to Ethereum.
If they were more accepting of new ideas, probably Vitalik himself would have built something so far.
Yeah, look, it's definitely true.
It's hard for me to emphasize enough how contrarian it was in the first couple of months, but it would kind of be like, if you went, like, you know, the Blue Sky app, which is like kind of the more kind of liberal focused, like, people who didn't like that Elon bought Twitter, like, moved to Blue Sky and just like started tweeting about pro-Trump stuff, that is kind of the receptionist.
Like there was no way to do it.
You would have just had 50 replies every single time destroying you.
And that's how it was.
And, you know, obviously we've, you know, basically forked Bitcoin's culture and, you know, have a community that will have your back now.
But it definitely was not like that for the first month or so.
But it definitely was not like that for the first month or so.
And it was highly contrarian.
And it was highly contrarian.
And like, yeah, basically the status quo, the default was this was the complete joke
that would just completely fail.
And the Bitcoin maxis would never kind of let something like this happen.
And since then, you know, half of Bitcoin's transactions are, you know, our transactions
now doing things other than just moving BTC back and forth between addresses.
So it's pretty wild to see how far we've come.
But yeah, man, look, I appreciate you here.
And I hope you're here in another year as well.
J-Dog, what's up?
Yeah, thank you, Leo.
I just wanted to come from a different perspective.
I was just hearing what you guys are talking about.
And obviously, there's a huge cultural difference between the Bitcoin ecosystem and everything else.
And you have to question, like, why is that?
And to the matter of fact, it's because that Bitcoin is a unit of account.
It's the most dominant cryptocurrency, 65 percent dominance right now.
And we're heading into the institutional nation state adoption phase.
So when I think about it, it's like, yeah, there's a reason the culture is like this. It's because this is the final place you go. It's like all rows lead to Bitcoin.
And now I think things happen, everything happened for a reason. I think it was good
that we had a lot of cryptocurrencies early on. They were the test nets that built out these
different layers. And now at this point, this is the perfect time for Bitcoin to actually be
building, for people to actually be building on Bitcoin.
So I think it all happened at the right moment in time.
And we could say like, oh, this is what gave birth to Ethereum.
But I think we needed to let Ethereum build out so we could see, OK, what can we actually build on top of Bitcoin?
What what actually works? What what is do we need to actually focus on?
And now we're seeing that with all the builders that
are coming in and they've already had some experience working on these other chains. And
now they're just working with the proof of work network of Bitcoin and building that here. And
people are going to stay. This is the last place to go. And I'm seeing a lot of people, because of
everything that we're building with Bruins, are now switching over to Bitcoin or now see,
or they actually have exposure to Bitcoin in some way, Bitcoin assets.
And this is how we get mass adoption.
And yeah, I just wanted to come at it from that perspective, just hearing what you guys
are talking about.
And yeah, the culture is much better here and we're definitely here for the long term.
So yeah, just wanted to say that.
Yeah, look, it's interesting.
Like the way I see crypto kind of heading is like, you know, I do think it will be a
multi-chain future and that there will be many, many different blockchains and there
will be like interoperability between the blockchains.
But I sort of view it as like kind of going back to the way it was 10 years ago, where
like Bitcoin is the center of orbit of that universe.
And then all these other blockchains orbit around you, kind of like the way centralized exchanges used to orbit around Bitcoin back in the day, because literally all
you could trade when I signed up for Coinbase was Bitcoin. It was just a Bitcoin exchange.
And, you know, these chains are getting really, really fast and like super, super cheap, right?
They're basically replicating what a Web2 server could do. And Bitcoin L1's goal is not to be extremely fast
and cheap. Bitcoin does, you know, about capped out at around 10,000 transactions every block,
which is every 10 minutes. Solana does 10,000 transactions every second. You know, we are not
trying to ever compete on Bitcoin L1 with that. It just doesn't make sense. My mental model is that
Solana isn't competing with Bitcoin.
Bitcoin isn't competing with Solana.
Solana is competing with Coinbase and Binance.
All of Binance and Coinbase's liquidity
is gonna move on to Solana and Hyperliquid,
but Bitcoin, BTC, the actual token being issued
and secured by the Bitcoin network,
is still the most valuable token by far.
And all we're doing is just issuing more
tokens on that most secure and decentralized network. And I think there's absolutely going
to be a lot of trading that we can do on Bitcoin L1. But to ultimately scale this to tens of
millions of users, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people, yeah, we are going to need
these other environments, except instead of people going to download Coinbase, you know,
there's 100 million people who use Coinbase. There's, you know, tens of millions of people who use Kraken. I think there's like 500 million
people who use Binance. Basically, those people are going to, you know, use Solana or Hyperliquid
or something like this. And I think like all the exchanges even know this. It's not like a secret.
I think Kraken has their own Inc blockchain. Coinbase has Base.
Binance has their Binance Smart Chain.
I would imagine Binance in the next year will come out with a direct hyperliquid competitor.
Things are heading on chain.
And all of these other chains are just, they're basically the Coinbase's and Binance's that
you would have downloaded 10 years ago.
And that's like super exciting.
So I'm not like, I'm not of this mental model where it's like Bitcoin and everything else goes to zero. I think all of these other
chains like play a role, but they're basically, you know, places for these like really fast and
cheap applications can be built the way you would have download, you know, Coinbase on the app store,
you would just now download an app that's like powered by Solana or something like this.
But at the end of the day, the actual settlement and the security and the issuance of tokens
and a lot of people who really care and are whales are going to want to hold and trade
on Bitcoin L1 directly.
And we're going to offer them, you know, all of these different choices.
But yeah, in general, I'm just like very, very excited.
The direction crypto is heading in.
Stablecoins, I know like there's some Bitcoiners that hate it.
But to me, it's just like the innovation is not just BTC. The innovation was Satoshi created a blockchain. He created a
blockchain and a cryptocurrency, and both of those things are very important. And yeah, we basically
have blockchains now, and we can tokenize real world assets like the US dollar,
like other currencies, global
currencies like stocks.
We can do prediction markets.
We can do a lot of cool shit.
We're going to do a lot of cool shit here.
And yeah, I think a lot of those tokens, people will come to the same realization that you
can issue those tokens, you know, on Bitcoin layer one.
It's very, very exciting.
I see we have, okay, very quickly, Kojo, what's up?
I want to hear your thoughts.
And then we got Bob has joined.
And I think he has a very exciting announcement he wants to share.
But first, what's up, Kojo?
Hey, what's up?
What's up, Leo?
Thanks for having me up, man.
Every time I hear you say the biggest meme coin should be on the biggest blockchain, Bitcoin.
I don't know, man.
I just think it makes so much sense.
I get super bullish and I just want to buy more dog.
I want to buy more Billy.
I just want to buy more runes in general.
I'm tired of getting rugged on Solana.
I'm tired of getting rugged on Abstract.
We all saw what happened the other day.
I'm tired of getting rugged on...
All of these fucking chains keep rugged us.
But whenever I buy Billy, Dog, Gizmo, whatever rune that's, I mean, like a real OG now,
I feel so comfortable with having my money just sitting there because I know I won't get rugged.
I know it's not top heavy. I know it's not called heavy. I know it's not, you know,
being just controlled by a certain group of individuals. It feels safe.
I wanted to hop on stage though and talk about Odin.fun. I'm sure you know about it.
I saw your tweet, Leo, you know, I follow you. I have your notification on. I see everything.
And I saw you talking to OG as well, OG General, talking about the liquidity.
So I wanted to hop on stage, talk about that as well.
I invited Bob on stage.
Salute Bob for pulling it up.
And let's just have the conversation, man.
I don't know what's the holdup.
We should definitely be having a RuneCoin meme coin season on Bitcoin.
It's way overdue.
Odin.fun is the platform.
We've been grinding behind the scene for a very long time.
I'm not a part of the team.
I just love the product.
I've been using it for quite some time right now.
And let's just have the conversation, man.
Let's get it rolling.
We can do it.
Hey, Odin.
So, sorry, not Odin, Bob.
So today you launched OG Runes,
at least in terms of liquidity pools being open to the public.
And I think last time you had mentioned
it was roughly around 31, 36% for dog.
But what is something that you could tell people
who want to you know participate in
this and what's necessary for these specific og runes to meet a certain threshold before they
actually are qualified to be listed for trading for your yeah for your for your peoples sure yeah
can you hear me okay just making sure my audio is coming through. Cool.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Really excited to be here.
Now, always, always a blast to jump on the Ordinal show.
I feel like it's been, what, two, almost two and a half years?
It's been crazy, bro.
This has been crazy.
Like, yeah, I remember meeting you for the first time on this show, bro.
It was a long, that was a lifetime. 24 hours, we've done 60 BTC in volume. If you take volume from Solana and if you take Bitcoin
01 and if you add in Alkanes and you add in BRC20 and you add in the OKX volume and the
Magic Eden volume and the Sats terminal volume, just add it all together. Odin Fund is still,
what, 2X, 3X, 4X maybe, the sum of everything else. And I just say this because you can just trade so fast on Odin Fund
that from like a volume perspective, it's almost not even fair to do a transaction anywhere else
is going to take minutes. And in Odin Fund, you could have $5,000 and you could do one BTC in
volume in like 10 seconds. If you're just like buy, buy, buy, sell, sell, sell, buy, buy, buy,
sell, sell, and then you're done. And you can transact like buy, buy, buy, sell, sell, sell, buy, buy, buy, sell, sell,
and then you're done. And there's, you know, you can transact so much faster. So Odin Fund is bringing, you know, lightning fast trading to Bitcoin. We launched end of January, we've done
almost 5000 BTC in volume since then. We have like 120k registered users, probably a couple
thousand daily actives. And so, you know, things have been going really, really well.
It hasn't been perfect.
You know, it's been bumpy.
But very, very excited that OG runes or, you know, runes originally launched on Bitcoin,
not on Odin Fund, can now come and be added as tokens directly to Odin Fund.
We use Uniswap V2 AMM style pools. So just think, you know, bare bones, basic AMM, constant product formula. You come in with equal dollar amounts of Bitcoin and token and you deposit that into a liquidity pool.
through the pool. It's a half a percent as the total fee. 0.15 of that is the platform fee.
0.05 is to the referrer. And then 0.3% is for the LP. Dog is currently leading the charge,
unsurprisingly, at 36%. So that means we have $36,000 in liquidity right now,
targeting one BTC of total liquidity to unlock trading.
And we kind of adjusted those liquidity thresholds based on market cap. We wanted to make sure we
could provide a reasonably safe trading environment for people that want to come in and add liquidity,
remove liquidity, or trade without having too much price impact. So it's been a wild ride,
but things are looking really good.
I've been chatting with a whole bunch of people in DMs
about bringing liquidity on for DAWG
as well as for other tokens.
And I think it's gonna be fantastic.
All right, so maybe could you share it like uh just like a high level if somebody
has a rune you know they're like you know not getting much volume on l1 they want to
you know basically just increase uh increase volume increase the ease of use ease of ability
to buy and sell the token how do they actually go go about getting their rune listed? They create a rune on L1 versus an existing rune.
They want it on Odin Fund.
Specifically, what are the steps people need to take?
Yeah, so the biggest blocker is going to be liquidity because we use a Uniswap V2 model.
You need equal dollar amount of token in Bitcoin.
If you have liquidity and you have a token, then there is nothing stopping
you. We do have a permissionless way to add tokens, but we haven't released that yet.
We're just waiting a little bit to release that. So in the meantime, just DM me. I'm
at Bob Bodily on Twitter or Telegram or Discord. Twitter's probably best. And if there's liquidity, we can get the token added
and we can get liquidity providers in. And then as soon as you reach the liquidity threshold,
trading will automatically unlock. We haven't unlocked trading quite yet. We're going to do
that in the next couple of hours. And then when Dog hits 100%, it'll immediately trigger trading.
So then people can come in and buy and sell directly in the AMM on Odin Fund.
Love it.
I talk on the show a lot about this idea of, you know, basically for the first 10 years of crypto, you had centralized exchanges.
You would trade on Mt. Gox or Coinbase, Bitfinex, crypto, you had centralized exchanges. You would trade on
Mt. Gox or Coinbase, Bitfinex, a bunch of these different exchanges. And then we started
around 2017, there were some ICOs where people were like, okay, we're going to build
on-chain crypto exchanges, like DEXs became the term. And then Uniswap, around the time of DeFi
summer, rolled out their kind of first version of their AMM.
And that was obviously pretty innovative.
Fast forward to now, you just look at a chart of like on-chain volume, like DEX volume versus centralized exchange volume.
We are just eating into market share.
Like I think we're at about 30% market share right now.
It's just up and to the right marching forward. I see a flippening happening probably in the next year or two. This is very,
very exciting, I think for a lot of people. And I look at these networks that are like,
like the ICP, obviously, which you're building on Solana, Hyperliquid,
near there's a bunch of these, like, I just consider them like ultra fast, almost like web
two servers.
They're basically free to trade on.
They're essentially instant trades, even though, you know, slight caveats, it's probably, like, it's not quite the speed of, like, an API Web2 server.
But it's very, very fast.
And that is how people are saying they want to trade. Like, that's how people are choosing to trade.
And volume and liquidity are coming on chain in a more open way.
There's not, you know, this kind of corrupt listing process.
Everybody can just trade permissionlessly, no KYC.
You are a piece of that equation.
Like, you know, Ode and Fun is part of spearheading that future, which I think we're all super
excited for, which I think is very Bitcoin aligned, very kind of crypto ethos aligned.
Maybe just share with us a little bit about, yeah, your vision there for like,
basically, like, I don't view Odin Fun as like competing necessarily with the L1 trading experience.
trading experience. I view it as competing with Coinbase. Coinbase is going to be put out of
Like I view it as competing with like Coinbase.
business by Hyperliquid and Odinfond and Solana and these other things. I'm not joking. I'm
completely serious. They even realized this and they're starting to integrate base dex trading
into the main Coinbase app. That old version is kind of slowly becoming obsolete as this new
permissionless open version of trading, which just liquidity is seeming to be attracted to
like a magnet is taking over.
And we're just watching this play out before our eyes, man.
So I'm curious, like very high level there as a builder who's, you know, participating
in this movement, you know, is that, is that something that like gets you
really excited when you wake up in the morning?
Like how, how do we, how do we complete the transition from, you know, sex to sex?
I think you're exactly right.
I mean, people want secure, they want permissionless, they want decentralized, they want,, they want safety and they want speed.
And historically that's been centralized exchanges
because you couldn't do it on chain.
And we're seeing, like you mentioned,
lots of different ways of doing this,
lots of different new strategies,
lots of people making lots of different trade-offs.
And I think that's really exciting. I think taking the existing model and making it better
and more open and cheaper and faster and still maintain some security and decentralization,
I mean, that's what the people want. And honestly, that's a better future, I think.
If you look at financial infrastructure just more broadly, I think it's only a matter of time until everything is running on crypto rails.
And it's just from it's it's because it just makes sense from a business perspective.
No one wants to pay a three percent fee on anything. You know, I think fees, I think competition is going to continue to increase. I think fees are going to continue to get pushed down and liquidity is going to go where you have, you know, secure, fast, permissionless trading opportunities where liquidity can flow easily and quickly and people can make money.
And so, you know, I think we're taking kind of a unique spin at Odin Fund where everything is Bitcoin.
You come in with Bitcoin and Bitcoin is what you use in
the platform. And all of our, every single AMM pair is paired with Bitcoin. So we don't do,
you know, two different tokens with each other, we just do everything with Bitcoin. And so as
a liquidity provider, you're earning BTC by being an LP on Odin Fund. And so we're, you know,
taking this Bitcoin Dex idea and taking it, you know,
all the way. So, you know, that's, that's like an interesting angle for us. But yeah, I mean,
I think we're definitely seeing the age of the Dex. And I think it's just going to continue.
And I think we're probably going to have a whole bunch of hybrid models, like,
like you mentioned, Coinbase has a centralized exchange,
adding all base DEX activity and Hyperliquid having, what, like four validators.
You know, it's like a baby blockchain, but super, super fast in terms of decentralization.
So I think we're going to see a whole bunch of hybrid models
where people are making trade-offs in order to get faster speeds and better user experience.
And I think it's going to be a great feature.
Love it. Yeah, it's almost like there's kind of like a regulatory arbitrage going on where it's
like, how far can you push things in the centralized way without triggering KYC and all of this stuff?
And like, yeah, we're going to see people push that pretty far, I think. And ultimately, there's just going to be a bunch of pretty badass experiences for like,
if you want to buy crypto, I think it's just going to get easier and easier and easier.
Okay.
Okay.
Very cool.
Back to just like Odin Funds.
Actually, okay.
I got a quick question about ICT.
We've had Omnini Network on here before.
I see when I look at these different websites that
kind of show where chains are at as far as real world, not theoretical, but actual in production,
real world transaction per second. And I always see Hyperliquid and ICP are the only ones that
are consistently beating Solana. I think there's other chains like Sui that kind of advertise
theoretically they beat Solana, but they're not actually outperforming in the real
world test. Why is it that like ICP doesn't get talked about quite as much? It's like people talk
a ton about Solana, talk a ton about Hyperliquid, but I just don't hear as much about ICP. And I
think you guys are an example of like, holy shit, you can just click this button a bunch of times.
Like you guys, you guys have a pretty amazing TPS.
And like, it can unlock a bunch of experiences
that I think devs just traditionally think,
okay, you build this on Solana or something.
But you guys are like,
I think it's like literally like an order of magnitude,
more TPS than Solana.
Why isn't that like part of the conversation as much?
You guys are the main time that I hear about ICP, to be totally honest.
I'm just kind of curious, does ICP have an opportunity to grow into this kind of DEX model
and just basically become a magnet for liquidity the way that Solana and Hyperliquid and then
magnet for liquidity the way that Solana and Hyperliquid and then Base are trying to do.
Base are trying to do?
Yeah, I mean, we could go into the, you know, the long, painful history of ICP.
We can do this one minute.
But just kind of skipping over that, ICP does have really fantastic cross-chain tech.
You know, if you look at specifically what they can do, they have threshold signings
subnets. So you can do threshold ECDSA, EDDSA, and Schnorr. So that means you can do Tepper
transactions. You can do Bitcoin. You can do Ethereum. You can do Solana. You can do Cosmos.
So you can basically integrate any blockchain. It's like 99% coverage of blockchains or something
like that. You can do HTTP calls directly from an ICP smart contract.
So you don't even have to like integrate Chainlink as your oracles, you could just build your own
oracle, because you can just make the calls yourself. You can do things like you could host
a front end directly on chain. So if you, you know, don't want to go through like, you know,
an AWS or a Google Cloud or something like that, you can optionally have, you know, an AWS or a Google Cloud or something like that. You can optionally have, you know, a decentralized hosted front end.
So ICP has a lot of great tech, but, you know, where's the killer app?
I mean, let's look prior to Odin Fun.
Like, has anyone ever heard about anything that's ever been built on ICP?
And I think the answer is going to be no.
You know, Hyperliquid doing massive volume ever since launch.
Solana, I mean, you know,
can't even count the number of killer apps on Solana on two hands.
And so from like a builder perspective,
I mean, ICP has a really, really long history.
I mean, they started in like 2016 or 2015,
you know, did a really big raise and have just been building.
They have a really ambitious roadmap and, you know, they're cranking on like doing interesting decentralized AI stuff.
And also a lot of this, you know, cross-chain and Bitcoin stuff.
There have been a lot of builders that have started to leverage ICP, like the Liquidium folks,
are starting to do some really interesting cross-chain work, also leveraging ICP. There's the Omniti group, and there are, I don't know, probably another five or six or 10 or 15 devs,
or specifically dev teams doing really interesting work on ICP.
And so I think ICP has a really interesting opportunity here
for cross-chain tech, specifically for Bitcoin,
because you can just build these incredible user experiences.
You know, we leverage chain abstraction and account abstraction, and no gas fees for users and session keys, so you can
just sign once and then, you know, play for 48 hours until you have to sign again. And those
kinds of user experiences, I think, are what everybody wants to build in crypto, you want to
build something like that in a way that's decentralized and secure. And if you can do that, that solves a big pain point, then I think you win as an entrepreneur.
Fantastic user experience that solves a giant pain point for a large market,
and then just go and take the market in and you win. And so I think ICP can enable that.
And so I think there's an opportunity here. Very cool. Very cool. And yeah, like, you know,
on this show, we mostly talk about like
Bitcoin L1, runes, ordinals, and some of the other meta protocols going on. And it's like,
when I have an expert on the show who like, kind of understands the kind of cross chain world,
L2s, like these various things, I love to pick your brain. So just like one more question on
that front. I feel like, just like a couple things in my feed have come into my feed in the past couple weeks.
I think like Stacks has like a pretty big proposal to basically increase the number of STX tokens that are issued.
And I think the main reason they're doing that is they want to basically be able to fund developers, I think increase the number of applications, increase the development. And it sounds like what I'm basically hearing is like ICP has pretty strong
fundamentals on like the tech side. Like I said, the TPS is like almost second to none.
And that foundation is there. But your two cents is that like, it's almost like you need 10x more
developers and VCs funding those developers and more apps being built
so that you then end up getting at least one or two killer apps kind of a thing. I'm curious,
like what is, like, you're trying to bootstrap an ecosystem, like how do you do that? Like,
what should Stacks do? What should ICP do to like make that happen? Because it doesn't seem like
it's necessarily a technological problem on ICP. It's more of like just developer mindshare, really.
on ICP. It's more of like just developer mindshare really.
I mean, this is, I mean, just like looking at the Bitcoin ecosystem more broadly, not even just
stacks and ICP. Let's look at every single chain, side chain, L2, meta protocol. They're all facing
the same problem. I mean, look at what Arch is doing. Look at what Spark is doing. Look at what
Arc is doing. Look at what, I didn't mean to say all the similar names together. Look at what,
the state chain models are doing and the spider chains are doing and the side chains. And look
at the meta protocols, look at alkanes, look at everyone has this problem, which is how do you attract fantastic developers?
How do you get them to build killer apps on your chain?
How do you incentivize them?
How do you get them to come on and build?
How do you support them?
And then how do they build killer apps
that can attract users and can attract liquidity?
I mean, everybody, it's almost like two years ago,
Bitcoin was like the blue ocean
opportunity where there was very, very little going on. Anyone could come in and kind of,
you know, make a name for themselves. And now we're moving into red ocean territory where
now we have a bunch of VCs fragmenting the market. We have a bunch of different token standards. You
know, we have a bunch of money being pushed in all of these different directions and that's going to
fragment users. That's going to fragment liquidity and that's going to fragment liquidity, and that's going to fragment developers. And so, I mean, I think
everybody has to solve this problem. This is like a really, really hard problem to solve. Like,
how do you take super fantastic tech, even if it is the best tech in the world, and how do you get
fantastic devs and killer apps and users and liquidity? And you could just like pay for it all if you had enough money.
Like you just pump incentives into the ecosystem.
But you can't always do that.
And many times incentives leave
and then the devs leave and the users leave.
And so I don't know that this is a solved problem.
I think everybody's running into this right now.
How do you get traction?
Right.
And another thing I see people argue about is that like, I think Cardano, I saw a tweet
yesterday was people were arguing about Cardano doesn't have native USDC support.
And I think you're probably seeing the same things I am that we're in sort of somewhat
of like a stable coin summer is what it's being called.
You're seeing like Walmart and Amazon and all these different companies saying they might issue a stable coin.
I think JP Morgan just did something.
There's like all these stable coins.
Circle went public and went crazy.
Stable coins are like the buzzword in crypto right now.
Yeah, I see, you know, there's like these infrastructure pieces as well.
And Cardano, you know, wants to have USDC support, but Circle is like charging them a very high fee that they don't necessarily
want to pay. Do you think that's like one of the reasons that like, like, do you think there's
just like almost a financial hurdle? It's like, you want all of that stuff, all of that infrastructure,
like the USDC and like the on-ramping for fiat and all that stuff built, you just have to pay
these infrastructure providers. They're just like charging you now instead of doing chains for
free. That's basically, is that the state of like all these different ecosystems where they're like,
it's almost like they're these like SaaS companies and the, the, you know, the foundation behind like
the hundred different kind of L1s or L2s are supposed to like be the customer and they pay
you a bunch of money to
then get their infrastructure. Like this is a trend that I'm kind of watching happen. And I
think I'm seeing chains and ecosystems get frustrated. So in some cases they feel like
they're being extorted. Um, you know, other cases they just are like, okay, this is the business
model. You have to cough up the funds. But, um, yeah, is that, is that like something that you're
feeling on ICP as well? Like, um, like, is there a USDC on ICP, for example?
I'm just trying to kind of gauge here.
And then that's my last question on this stuff.
It's just things I think about and see happening and wanted to pick your brain on.
Then let's head back to Odin.
Yeah, I mean, for sure.
You know, you have lots of input providers.
I mean, look at like the layer zeros and the wormholes as well.
Look at the stablecoin providers. You know, there's, I mean, they can basically just charge
whatever they want because who else is going to give you the integrations and, you know, make it
happen, which is pretty painful, I think, for a lot of applications for a lot of chains um to have to do do things
like that and so i think in many cases like i mean they're they're even parallels here with
like centralized exchange listings you know leo you're like the the king of wait hang on ever
sex ever to get listed is that wait i'm kidding keep Keep going. I know.
But a lot of parallels there.
You know, a lot of questionable activities with centralized exchanges.
And I think this is part of the reason why, you know, things are moving to a DEX model. And so I think there are opportunities for this as well on the stablecoin side.
for this as well on the stablecoin side.
Let's get an amazing open, whatever, stablecoin provider
that can just do things really, really cheaply, efficiently
and in a good regulatory way,
and just go integrated on every chain,
have a really fantastic standard and open,
like something like that would just dominate right now.
But again, you have like that would just, you know, dominate right now. But again, you know, you have to like, get the traction, you have to get the ball rolling,
you have to get the net network effects rolling before you can do something like that. But
I agree with you that I think there are some sticking points. But over time, I think everything's
going to smooth out, give it enough time. And you know, you can't keep. I think there are enough arbitrage opportunities for builders that you can't keep up a monopoly like that in crypto.
Okay, interesting. I like that. I like that.
It's almost like they're in this like sweet spot one or two year period.
Like I'll see people complaining that like privy pricing is too high.
What naturally has to happen is you need like 10 competitors to privy to come out and then the pricing gets driven down this sort of stuff okay very very reasonable answers there as far as odin
goes the last time we had you on the show this was a few months ago uh everybody was asking when og
ruins that was like the big next thing that you were talking about i think you were you had a list
of like some bugs you had to solve but the main thing people were excited about was OG runes. These have arrived. Today, there's basically a two-phase process before the fading trading phase begins.
We have to get liquidity, like you said, into the liquidity pools. And yeah, pretty much any
rune that wants to do this can. I think the way, again, the mental model I use that I encourage
people to think is like, don't think of like ICP or Odin as like a blockchain or something.
Think of it as like competing with a centralized exchange.
You are like really wanting your rune on, you know, some centralized exchange.
You're like, oh, we can't like, you know, you know, I don't want to say a specific name,
but like some tier two exchange is charging us too much money to get our rune listed.
You're like, oh, I've got a solution for you.
Just come add liquidity. I think there's
like some threshold. I think I know bigger runes, it's $100,000. Maybe it's a little less for smaller
runes. But you can basically self-list yourself by just organizing a few. You don't even have to
be a whale. I wouldn't consider you a whale holding $10,000, $20,000. Get a few holders together,
add some liquidity to the liquidity
pool over on Odin and then, you know, see what happens.
I think it's like, treat it, treat it like a centralized exchange listing.
You're just trying to make it easier to buy the token basically is fundamentally what's
happening and, you know, increase volume and increase the number of people who hold your
token.
This is, this is the new way to do it.
Like you, yes, of course, should still be going to centralized exchanges and pushing
that.
They're still very relevant.
But this is also something that you need to be doing.
And it's a mental model shift that I had back in January when we started Operation Dog
Domination was like, treat the blockchains, treat the DEXs the same way as you treated
centralized exchanges in the prior cycles.
And I think that mental model is like absolutely kind of working and correct.
And yeah, I would encourage runes like, you know, go make your first big quote unquote
exchange listing be owed in fun.
Like why not make a little initiative to source some liquidity together and go do that and
just see what happens, you know.
It's, you know, we're all experimenting here.
We're all having fun.
As far as what's next after this, you knew this question would have to be coming, Bob.
What's the next feature that you're super excited about?
Everybody wants to know the next big thing.
And I know we could keep talking about just existing trading, but quite frankly, I think most people here have traded
or kind of understand the trading interface
and know that it's pretty damn easy to use
and that you just kind of add liquidity to the liquidity pool.
I think it's like, I hope it's not super hard for people.
I think there's not too much explanation needed.
As a builder, what are you looking towards next?
Do you have kind of a new feature you want to build into Odin
that users have been requesting a lot? What's the, yeah, I'm just curious, what are you looking towards next? Like, do you have kind of a new feature you want to build into Odin that like users have been requesting a lot?
Like what's the, yeah, just curious,
like where are you heading with things?
Yeah, tons of things around the edges in terms of,
you know, adding small features here or there
to just improve the user experience for creators
or for liquidity providers or for users.
In terms of like bigger features that we've been working on, we really
want to start adding opportunities for bringing in cross-chain liquidity. And so you should be able
to log in with any Solana wallet and, you know, immediately go from Sol on Solana to Bitcoin in
Odin. And, you know, we should be able to do that in, you know, less than a minute or
less than 30 seconds. So imagine, you know, you almost just treat it like a Solana app. You know,
you just click in, you find your Solana wallet, you click, you sign, and there you go, you have
an account and you say, okay, I'm going to, you know, deposit Sol, boom, Solana super fast, you
know, a couple seconds. You have Sol, you could swap to BTC.
You know, that might be a swap directly within Odin,
or we might do some like cross-chain intense type integrations,
like a cross or others,
where you could go directly from some other currency like Sol or ETH
directly to Bitcoin.
And then you're just kind of off to the races trading on Odin Fund.
Similar with like Ethereum or with base, you know, log in with any wallet, you know,
Betamask or some wallet connect integration, you know, bring in your ETH or your base ETH
and then directly swap to Bitcoin.
And then, you know, you're off to the races trading.
The Intense model is pretty interesting because
you could essentially go from any token on any chain directly to Bitcoin and Odin to trade.
And there's something really appealing about the Bitcoin black hole, I like to call it,
where, you know, any token on any chain can go directly into Bitcoin for trading on Odin Fund.
And so, you know, I think this is one interesting opportunity that we have to grow Bitcoin tokens,
Bitcoin meme coins, runes, you know, BRC20 grow beyond the Bitcoin ecosystem.
You know, like I think people on Solana want to trade Bitcoin meme coins.
They just don't know it yet.
Most of them, most of them don't know it yet.
And I think people on base want to trade Bitcoin tokens. And so that's one thing that we've been working on quite
a bit, just kind of on the side for the last couple of months is thinking through how this is going to
work and how we're going to pull it off technically. You know, we've built a lot of interesting
prototypes to see how things are going to work and see what the best model is going to be.
And I think that's going to be pretty interesting.
Very exciting.
So I'm hearing a lot of like similarities to like kind of the Hyperliquid model here of just being a liquidity hub basically.
And then I think it's pretty cool that like, you know, BTC would be the currency.
First thing on Hyperliquid, it's mostly stable coins.
But would you ever think about doing perps?
Like Hyperliquid obviously started as a perp deck.
Do you have any ambitions to do that?
Or are you guys just like, at least for the next year, just purely focused on spot?
We love to talk about perps.
to talk about perps. I think perps is really interesting. Even just like a super, super simple,
I think perps is really interesting.
like virtual AMM, you know, where you could essentially long or short Bitcoin directly on
Odin Fund. I think perps generally have a pretty complicated user experience, but, you know, I'm
imagining like a radically simple design that's just like, you know, green arrow up, red arrow down,
enter your value and go kind of thing, you know, take kind of an Odin fun spin on perps.
Something like that could be really fun. We've talked about it a lot. We've specced out some
things on the infra side, and we've looked at what it would take from a technical point of view.
a technical point of view.
And I think it's
interesting, but
we haven't made the
go or no decision yet
on whether that's
a good idea or
whether it would just suck away all of our
time and we would never
push another feature again because
we'd be deep in the
trenches
building perps for the next six months.
So TBD.
Yeah, I mean, definitely, look, don't, yeah.
I think it's easy to just start running with a bunch of features,
and all of a sudden you're not providing the correct experience that you want to
for your core kind of use case.
So, yeah, it's like obviously make sure that like the core things are locked down.
But yeah, I find it interesting to kind of think about, um, even as a thought experiment
for the future, like the things you could sort of do here.
Um, okay.
Okay.
Very cool.
Um, so I guess the idea is like, okay, let's say dog, you know, let's, let's fast, let's
fast forward six months.
Dog has like a big 10 million dollar
liquidity pool like very deep liquidity on odin fun and you know somebody you know comes with
their solana wallet and they can just connect to odin fun do like just a quick move from solo to
btc and then swap basically this is like kind of like the future vision of like something you could
offer that you know doesn't exist today but that's like a future kind of like the future vision of like something you could offer that, you know, doesn't exist today.
But that's like a future kind of way people could use the platform that would basically,
again, bring more people to these assets, make it easier to buy kind of the OG rooms and stuff, basically.
That's like a decent summary of like maybe six months from now, kind of something we
could potentially expect if things go well.
Yeah.
And I think the way to think about it is, you know, lots of people have
heard about Bitcoin. I think there's a stat that like 90% of the world has heard about Bitcoin.
And so, you know, this is maybe not in the next six months, but I think, you know, who doesn't
want to trade meme coins on Bitcoin? I mean, Bitcoin is the world's greatest meme coin
in terms of mindshare, in terms of the narratives that it has. It's absolutely a fantastic meme coin. And so starting to grow the narrative of tokens on Bitcoin or meme coins on Bitcoin or, you know, whatever you want to call them. And I think growing that narrative is also, you know, we want Odin Fund to
be the home of meme coins on Bitcoin, you know, trade, you know, trade memes, trade events. You
know, if there's any Bitcoiner in the world, I want them to know about Odin Fund, even if they're
I want them to know about Odin Fun.
Even if they're a Bitcoin Maxie,
I want, this is like my secret goal
when I'm like at home, you know,
like on a walk by myself, you know,
next to the river or something.
And I'm like, you know, pondering,
pondering about the future.
Secret goal is to get Bitcoin maxis launching meme coins on Odin Fun to stack more SAT.
This is one of my goals.
It's definitely going to happen.
If you guys have any good, you know, maxis that I can shill on interesting strategies to accumulate more Bitcoin. Hook
me up because this is going to happen. So, yeah.
All right. I wish you luck. These guys are a tough cookie to crack, tough nut to crack.
But I think eventually I do agree. It may take a long time just being completely honestly.
But I think eventually these guys will kind of come around too.
Yeah.
I think eventually a lot of these guys will come around.
Not all, but a lot of them.
So you mentioned that you guys are focused on Humecoins.
I noticed that, like, there's kind of – you guys are obviously a Launchpad and a Dex.
I've noticed on the Launchpad side of things on Solana, for example, there's been kind
of different metas other than just meme coins.
Like there's been, I think virtuals was the big launchpad for AI tokens, which I think
AI tokens are not quite as hot right now, but that was definitely a meta.
Maybe it's going to come back.
I've noticed that this app called Believe app has been basically the launch
pad for utility tokens, like startup founders that are trying to like basically make, I think
they call it the on-chain Y Combinator type situation. But basically, yeah, they're like
coining it internet capital markets that I see a lot of parallels, hopefully not all of the bad
parallels, but a lot of parallels with the 2017 2018 ico's where basically people are launching utility tokens um i'm curious like are you just hyper fixated on meme coins or do you
do you want to branch out um at all yeah i think that specifically for odin fun a meme coin launchpad was the most strategic way to bootstrap liquidity around the platform.
If you look at any platform, nobody wants to go in and bridge assets and have to figure out a new
token and figure out a new wallet and figure out a new marketplace. And it's just really, really hard to connect the dots.
And so for us, this was the fastest, best way for us to bootstrap liquidity. And if you look at
Odin Fund right now, we have probably like 160 or 170 ascended tokens. And the token with the least liquidity still has, you know, like $9,000 USD of liquidity.
So this is the least successful token that's ever bonded. And so this is...
Give it a shout out. Give it a shout out. What's the worst performing token? I'm curious.
Let's see. So it doesn't... So Gob doesn't count because we just added um there's actually
well there's a no i'm i'm not going to do that one i'm going to skip that one
i mean you can just go and you can search you can search on it i'm just curious like a funny
experiment on like 170 coins which one was like the absolute worst like everybody kind of knows
like okay people like dogs clearly there's like odin dog and stuff right but which one was like the absolute worst like everybody kind of knows like okay people
like dogs clearly there's like odin dog and stuff right but um what's like the least popular being
well i mean there's a there's an odin dog copycat token which is which did bond what's the deal with
that by the way there's like a bunch of dog copycats. Like if I go on Odin Fun right now, you guys have like a dog up there. That's not the real dog.
Yeah.
So you can just, the real dog has a verified checkmark.
So make sure that you find the verified checkmark dog.
The reason that there are copycats is we have a permissionless token creation process.
So anyone can go in and create a token and the tickers are not um unique they don't have
to be unique um so anyone can create any token they want whenever they want and there are pros
and cons to come with that model okay interesting interesting um okay well yeah i'll just give a
shout out because like just some feedback i don't think it's super clear to people going to odin
fund right now which dog they're buying so the boot the check is great but definitely guys make sure you look for the
check it's not like super obvious um that that one on the homepage right now is not the legit dog to
buy so just be careful and i do agree there's like some cool benefits to that as well being like
uh totally permissionless but um yeah just be careful so you don't get scammed like it's really shitty i've seen people buy fake meme coins in the past um on all sorts of different platforms and it's a
it's a pretty shitty feeling uh to find out you bought like the fake one unisat had some issues
with this in the past um and yeah it's just i don't know i i haven't actually gotten too many
dms i think i found like two dms and it was just people asking today like what's the deal with this token but i don't think i didn't get any messages that people bought it i
know on unisat their runes marketplace there was a legit number of people actually buying
the wrong one and i'm just throwing out there that something to keep an eye on is that you can
still have a permissionless back end and do a little bit of filtering on the maybe home page
for example still go to the details page maybe something. But as people trade dog more there and like people are sending people to Odin Fund to trade dog,
there's people who what they do is they're going to basically create a fake dog.
They're going to watch trade it to get up there.
And their whole goal is to basically scam people.
And if it shows in the top 20, it's, you know, I see people do this on Magic Eden a little as well.
And I tell them just, can you please take this down?
But it's a legit scam that happens, and I would say it kind of ruined the OKX Runes decks to be, sorry, not the OKX Runes decks, the OKX BRC20 decks.
They allowed that, and, like, I think it's a serious case study to look at there because it just got gamed by probably, like, a few people just doing this wash trading thing that ultimately nobody really wanted.
Like the real people did not want to trade there because it was very unclear what was organic or not.
And just throwing out there, like that's a legit thing now that you're like trying to get the OG runes on board.
People need to feel safe sending somebody to go buy a token there.
And like, yeah, just some feedback for you.
We got some.
Love it.
Yeah, we can do some AMA here, guys, if you want to.
I think NoBrain, you had your hand up.
If anybody else wants to just come up and ask Bob a question, now would be a great time to do that.
So NoBrain, what's up?
You got a question for Bob.
Good morning, everyone.
I have not a question, but I want you to know that I am in crypto from 2012 and I saw a lot of gems, but bought a lot of bitcoins and uh every every time i sold for the for nothing you
know and now i want you to know that uh dog is the best play in uh in the world right now and
i don't see anything i didn't see anything before like dog you know look if i have anything
to uh disagree with there i'll share it with you i don't so i think we can just acknowledge that
great show and maybe move on um but appreciate you no brain i just sent you a follow does anybody
else you know on stage or like seriously guys got, we got 200 people listening here.
I see you guys always asking, Bob, Bob, please answer my question.
Bob's literally here right now.
He was literally give you a real time answer to whatever questions you have.
So please come up, ask him a question.
Cause we're not gonna, you know, I'll give this a minute here, but if nobody comes up, we'll just move on.
So if you want to ask Bob questions now would be great opportunity or you
can you know get angry at bob because he didn't you know launch a feature that you wanted or
something whatever now is a great time to come up and uh bob is available for us so okay all right
well nobody has questions uh bob maybe just over to you like a final uh i don't know give a share share a final message
get people excited yeah uh if you haven't tried odin fun yet you just have to try it it's like a
kid walking in a candy store and seeing all the candy on the wall and imagine you know your mom
gave you a you know a dollar or something you know back in the back in the 50s and you can like go
buy buy whatever candy you want uh that's what it feels like as a trader to go into Odin Fund,
you know, sign up with the wallet, and then you can, in one confirmation, you can get Bitcoin in,
you can get runes in, and then it's just off to the races. And you have to just go, you know, set your quick buy to quadruple zero one.
So point zero zero zero zero one, which is about a dollar.
And then just go on the quick buy and just smash it like a hundred times.
And there's nothing that brings more joy to a trader's heart than clicking a button as fast as you can to buy a dollar worth of token.
I promise you, you will smile and it will be the greatest moment of your day.
Definitely pick a really good song. I've done Final Countdown before. I've done Can't Stop Me
Now. I've done, let's see, there was another really good one that I've done. Oh, from Guitar
Hero, Through the Fire and Flames, one of the hardest songs on Guitar Hero 2, I think.
Anyway, so pick one of your favorite songs
and go smash that quick buy button
and you will have the time of your life.
Love it. Love it.
I didn't realize we were going to get a song from Bob there, guys.
So it was a special little treat.
Let's hear a round of applause for Bob's singing voice.
Let's move on here.
Bob, I do appreciate you coming through, man.
Arthur is on stage, and I wanted to go to him and kind of hear about something he's been doing recently.
But, yeah, man, appreciate you coming through and everything you're doing.
Thanks for having me. Awesome. Awesome, awesome awesome arthur what's up bro hey uh
just off the heels of uh vegas and uh we had bob and jan on stage and that was a beautiful
conversation those two had so that that was a lot of fun uh seeing them in action and uh if you guys
came to our vegas event that was uh a quick last minute uh
thing that we put together and um it was really 360 and immersive something fun that i have never
seen before at a conference before and um so that was great to see everybody and uh excited for jan
to uh to do this in hong kong i know how hard it is to put these things together.
And so Jan signed up for it.
So he's a hardworking man.
We've been working with him for a few years now.
And you trust in Jan,
he's going to kick ass in Hong Kong.
So yeah, we're getting ready
for NFT NYC.
It's still happening.
It's next Wednesday in New York City.
We're bringing ordinals to uh
nftnyc we've got uh pizza ninjas bitcoin puppets on chain monkey emojis and um if you go to the uh
our nolcha um uh twitter account and you look at the um the uh um our invite you'll see a hand-sketched
dog as well there that we got over there too. It's made by
Young and Sick. They designed the invite. I don't know how to put it up on these
little statements here, but if you want to grab it from the Nolcha Show's account
to pop it in there, you can see it. It's really cool what Young and Sick did.
Yes, if you guys are going to be in New York City on June 25th,
it's going to be a great event.
Definitely join.
If you definitely are coming
and you're here listening,
shoot me a direct message.
We'll definitely hook you up with VIP access.
We're also hosting a private St. Jude's gathering
on the same day in the same venue.
Inside this venue, there's a hidden
speakeasy where you got to go through a little tunnel. So hit me up for that too, if you want
to meet the team behind St. Jude's and the amazing things that they're doing with the kids art and
the blockchain and everything that they've done so far getting into Web3 and crypto. As a charity,
I've never seen any charity go that far with crypto and actually being part of so many different crypto events.
And yeah, we're just, you know, bringing, continuing the Ordinals train and bringing it to New York City.
So reach out to me if you guys can make it out.
Awesome. Awesome. Are you working with Leap on the St. Jude stuff or is that separate?
Yeah, we work with Leap as well. We helped him with his event in Miami.
I'm not sure if Leap is going to be at this one too.
But yeah, we definitely work together on the St. Jude's events.
This one is being done by corporate at St. Jude's for a,
I guess, call it a St. Jude's speakeasy uh during um nftnyc it's also
permissionless so figure you know they're gonna hit uh both conferences at the same time and now
solana salt has just added their conference as well so i'm having a conference fatigue
somewhere from consensus to bitcoin to here so my body's done and sold on eBay.
But if anyone wants to buy it, it's for sale there.
But yeah, what Leap is doing is amazing too.
He's invested his own money into his technology and everything.
And he's 100% go for charity in St. Jude's.
So I got to call him out and say the amazing things that he's done for them already.
Yeah, totally agree.
So I see on the link above, I just shared it.
It says RSVP details below.
But then there's like a follow-up tweet that's just,
it's like, okay, okay, I see it.
Sorry, I had to click expand.
So guys, go to the tweet above.
If you're going to NFT NYC, obviously go to this party. This will be like a kind of ordinals kind of gathering. So there's an RSVP link on Aluma.
You can basically go there, sign up or yeah, hit up Arthur. He said his DMs are open. So
definitely would encourage people who are in New York or are going to be at NFT NYC
to go to this. As far as shouting out Trevor, I know he's doing, like, the Pizza Ninjas bus tour again.
He's not here tonight.
He couldn't make it to the show, so I just wanted to shout out on his behalf.
If you're a Pizza Ninja holder, like, definitely go sign up for that as well.
And, yeah, NFT NYC should be fun, guys.
It's been, yeah, I can't believe the year has passed.
Yeah, it's moving fast yeah i
mean invite you know um you know also of course the dog community you know come on out as well
we'll have uh we'll have the dog on the big screen too on the led walls uh so definitely get you a
shot of that um we already got the art made and ready to go so excited for that and uh it's a
cool spot it's it's three floors it's got that speakeasy where you can just hide and have a conversation.
Then you've got the main nightclub and then you've got the rooftop.
So you can disappear in any room and or you can just go and party.
So we've got, you know, networking to party, back to networking, back to just city views and chilling out.
There'll be some some good people already rzp like you know
donnie's definitely coming down for from og's and um hills um is coming too so um you know if you
guys are going to be in town you know definitely gonna gonna see see some good people there a few
of the guys from pizza ninjas are flying in as well so um they got some cool artwork for this
event too so definitely
um you know stop what you're doing and book a ticket to new york are you are you the same
arthur that we delivered the pizza ninja hats to in las vegas like the coordinator yeah that's me
man that's that's that's awesome like i will definitely give you a follow and talk to you for future events for Dog.
Because we want to do a lot of cool things basically throughout the year.
So maybe we could work together.
Yeah, definitely.
We're ready.
We're already getting ready for our Basel.
We just booked our space from last year.
It's an entire Miami City block.
It comes with 70 LED walls.
It'll be on december 4th
led walls you said yeah not 70 foot 70 separate walls yes that's yeah that's wild yeah yeah it's
it's it's uh it's an actual theater built in 1934 so it's one of my favorite venues on miami it's
right on the beach so you don't got to take an an Uber and sit in traffic for an hour and a half.
Literally can walk right over if you're staying on the beach.
And that's where we held the Inscribing Miami conference there as well.
And then we did the Bitcoin Awards.
So we'll be bringing Inscribing Miami as well to our Basel again on December 4th.
So definitely this venue's got a lot of cool things in it.
It's got a room called the Prince Room,
where actual Prince owned this little nightclub.
Holds about 120 people.
It's hidden behind a kitchen on the third floor.
And then you go into this cool little room
that oversees the entire venue, about 40 feet high.
So yeah, definitely reach out.
And anyone looking to do something for Art Basel,
reach out to me soon.
We're planning super early this time.
Love it.
Love it, love it.
Arthur, appreciate you coming up, man.
Definitely.
Thanks so much.
And, yeah, Leonice, are you going to make it out for this one?
I assume you're joking, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
I was like i
didn't know i'm pretty sure he was on this show and we joked about this before but maybe no i know
i know okay i mean look i think things change look you know like market's picking up hopefully
so you know you might you might make it out uh you never know you never know um right all right
well arthur appreciate you coming through man and yeah guys go links above go uh
obviously go to the party or go to this if you're going to be in new york um this will be like a
dope gathering of ordinal people um okay so as far as i see we got jake in the audience jake are you
down there are you able to come up i think think Jake might be not tuned in right now. Cynthia,
what's up? How's it going? How's life? Good evening, Leonidas and Jan and everyone else.
Lovely to be here, of course, in the Ordinal Show. I'm just, well, I'm trying to start on
some drawing as I listen to the wonderful conversations that we've been having
here. Excited to see what all happens in New York. Unfortunately, I won't be there, but I will be
living vicariously through everyone who is there and seeing how it goes down on the timeline. So
Arthur, really excited to see everything captured from all of what Nolcho puts on in New York City. And definitely very sad to not be able to be there in person to check it out.
But yeah, of course, always bullish on everything going on in the space.
I think it's important to stay positive and find the positive things that happened.
the positive things that happened. And in terms of that, I know I was giving Jan a hard time
about not meeting him in Vegas and him not being around the booth. But one thing that did happen
was I did meet Trevor in Vegas and he was lovely. So that was... Did he have a huge beard?
Pardon me? Did he have a huge beard? He did have a large beard. Yes.
All right. So wait wait so have you never
met yon in person is that correct no i haven't met yon i met the other yon but i haven't met
this yon our yon jay dog have you met yon oh yeah i met yon and then he uh tried to steal our dog
oh right right right that okay okay so is yon is buff in person as he tries to appear online or is he like taking
photos to certain angles that he posts on twitter and like using filters and stuff
he's pretty buff i mean he's more taller than i than i thought so very tall pretty buff okay i
wish he would have brought the uh that bitcoin weight that he had so we could You know had a little competition there, but oh well maybe next time. Yeah
Speaking of dumbbells, I've heard rumors that there's some new pizza ninja artwork
That's coming out apparently involving a dumbbell. Jan. Do you know anything about this?
Jan, do you know anything about this?
Man, I just know that Uzi actually sent me my pizza ninja with the dumbbell.
He sent me the preview yesterday and it's fucking fire.
I was kind of thinking maybe I should share, but I was also thinking no,
because he said it's not the final form yet.
So I'm waiting for the final form and then I'm going to let you guys know.
In terms of like other things with the dumbbell, some competitions, I don't know, bro.
Like I just know Dr. Masa was here.
Is he still here?
No, he's not here.
He's probably already sleeping.
But did you guys know that this guy is actually a world champion in futsal?
He's actually playing a world championship right now.
And I told him he's coming to Hong Kong and we're going to organize some futsal match.
So that's what I'm excited about.
What are you saying?
Are you talking about soccer?
Are you talking about footsie?
Well, okay, you guys don't know it in the U.S. probably,
but it's football or soccer.
Futsie is something different.
I mean, I don't know what you guys think footsie is, but...
Yeah, it's different.
It happens under a table.
No, it's soccer.
It's soccer type of.
But it's played inside.
It's much smaller field.
It's only five players.
But yeah, like it's an actual sport.
And that guy is playing a world championship final right now
so uh you know that guy is actually pretty legit i i don't know if you guys knew that but
but yeah he he sent me some videos from from his semi-final they won the semi-final and so now
they're in the finals i think this weekend and uh so we have some pretty good we have some pretty good, we have some pretty good rock stars guys in the dog community.
So, so yeah, I'm excited about that.
Is he, so like he, he's basically playing indoor soccer is kind of what it sounds like.
It's footsie.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So he's probably incredibly good at ball handling because basically I used to play indoor soccer a little bit when I was younger.
And like, it's a different set of skills than outdoor where you have to be really, really,
really good at ball handling.
That's kind of the name of the game.
It's ball handling short-term.
Just being able to move up the field
because it's not a very large field.
So he's probably...
I knew he said he was playing in Italy,
but I had never really dug in too much
to the specifics.
We'll have to ask him about it next time.
Very cool. Very cool. We did finally get jake on stage jake what's up man
yeah what's good can you actually hear me this time from when from monday when yeah
twitter was rugging yeah yeah no you sound good bro you sound good um that's good dude i feel
like i haven't been on stage here for a while i've been yeah it's like i know you listen a lot
like sometimes you'll come on stage but like haven't talked as much here for a while. Yeah, dude. I know you listen a lot. Sometimes you'll come on stage, but I haven't talked as much.
I just saw some kind of bullish stuff coming across my feed in the past week about Agent Hustle.
I think usage is kind of up and to the right, and you're maybe starting to get closer to some sort of product market fit or something there and wanted to just get the scoop from the man himself.
Yeah, man.
I've been so far down these AI trenches and actually just the Solana
trenches and the business side of things and understanding how that ecosystem works.
With AI, yeah, we're getting pretty close. We had like 250,000 messages in the last 30 days or so.
So a lot of usage. The amount of users though varies. Actually, it's generally only about a
few hundred per day or so,
which, believe it or not, is actually probably one of the more widely used AI projects in this space.
We don't really kind of fluff our numbers.
I'm pretty convinced that this is going to be the next major trend of crypto.
And actually most excited to get over to Bitcoin here probably in the next month or two
to start adding AI to runes and to ordinals and to alkanes and all these other protocols.
Actually, when I was at Inscribing Vegas, there was maybe three to five different meta protocols
and DEXs coming up to us asking us to integrate Agent Hustle
into or integrate their products into Agent Hustle. And then also vice versa, we have
Agent Hustle as a white label. So we've had some Bitcoin teams that are interested in
integrating Agent Hustle into their products. So for example, you could integrate them into your DEX or your Ordinal's marketplace and have your traders use AI to create some trading strategies with them and tell you where to take profits.
And we're actually going to have this system live pretty soon.
multi-chain that's called conditional trading. So you could essentially have him set order limits
That's multi-chain.
That's called conditional trading.
and set multiple take profits and basically analyze the trenches, whether it's on Odin
Fund or whether it's on Solana or whether it's on ETH. And you can have them kind of find tokens
based off of whatever your criteria is, buy them, and then set a stop loss and multiple take profits on a single prompt,
man.
It's actually quite wild how crazy AI is.
And I'm very convinced that it's definitely the future UX of crypto.
Although I think we're probably anywhere from six months to 18 months before that's very
apparent.
But from what I hear, a lot of the builders from the larger
teams, from marketplaces to exchanges to data providers, are all kind of building their own
AI companion in the background, or they're going to use something like Agent Hustle and integrate
it into their system. So it's going to be really awesome. And then just more focus on the Bitcoin
side of things. I think we're really the only one that's really interested in supporting the Bitcoin ecosystem from all the teams that we've talked with.
Most are EVM based. We're really one of the only few that's just on Solana because it's actually much more difficult to build.
And I think we're probably the only team capable to apply AI to things like ordinals and runes because we have
a lot of experience in the space, a lot of users in the space and also
care about the space which I think is a little bit more
apparent than a lot of the other teams. So coming here probably in the next
few months and kind of last point here and we continue the conversation
I think with ai
applying ai to things like runes um allows for automation in ways that doesn't exist right so
like with agent hustle when we come over to runes you'll be or ordinals you can set stop losses you
can set take profits right you can kind of set all this type of automation that people have been able
to do on smart contract platforms for a decade at this point.
And it doesn't really exist on Bitcoin.
So I think that'll bring a lot more efficiency as well as all of these kind of DEXs and infrastructure where I'm also like extremely bullish on RIDs.
I love it.
I love everything I heard there.
I mean, yeah, look, I agree. It's like super
exciting. And I'll go further than what you said and just say that like, I think our user interfaces
for computers, phones, it's all like, I'm not using Google anymore. I don't go to the Google
search bar. I go to ChatGPT and like, it's a paradigm shift and basically user interface,
like the kind of client side experience of how you interact with computers
is just changing. And I think, yeah, obviously like crypto will be one of those things, but I
think it's just a trend that's going to happen over the next couple of years. And like, I don't
know, the way we interact with computers is going to drastically change. I think it's like command
line interface to GUI back to kind of almost like a command line interface, except it's like human language command line.
It's pretty cool.
It's pretty exciting.
As far as, like, I think there's a lot of, like, buzzwords when it comes to AI,
and, like, a lot of people maybe are, like, in the mindset similar to how they will be with runes,
where, like, they talk about, oh, runes.
Like, people are still thinking, like, oh, you buy runes in lots,
and, like, you get sniped and all this stuff when you buy ordinals. And like, we actually solved all that stuff. It just happened
to be that when there was a big excitement around it, that's when everybody used it. And that's the
last time they kind of paid attention to it. The last time a lot of people paid attention to AI
was like, there was like this wave in like December of like, basically, I would consider
them like LLM crypto influencers. It would be like a Twitter account
that would basically tweet kind of bullish stuff, basically. This is a little bit of a different,
like the space is evolving. This is more of like an agent that you individually interact with.
And am I correct? You're basically giving it a private key that allows it to essentially like
make trades on your behalf and like actually go do things instead of just talk to you.
Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're pretty spot on.
So kind of just like a backstory of the AI proliferation, right?
When that trend happened at the end of last year,
it was really all of these, like they call them AOL, KOL bots.
And when we were building that,
we had a lot of interest from user from our users to go in that direction.
But we felt like that side of things was going to fall off pretty hard.
And really, there's kind of two agents or three in that sector that are really still alive at this point, which is AIXBT.
And then Banker, which kind of does something similar to us.
Ours is more similar to, yeah, I call it like
a DeFi terminal or a DeFi AI terminal. In essence, basically it's built on top of Emblem Vault
technology. So the cool part of that is all of the vaults we have or all of the wallets that
Agent Hustle controls is multi-chain. So it's on Solana, but we have Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum, pretty much access
to every wallet. We just have to build the infrastructure. And so what you're doing on
Agent Hustle, as well as some of the other ones, is you're coming in and you're creating an account
with us. It's a smart account. And then the AI itself kind of co-manages the wallet with you.
So we use an API key because they're smart wallets now
instead of kind of the EOA or EDCSA wallets that exist.
And with this agent, you can,
just specifically on Solana right now,
he can launch pump fund tokens.
He finds tokens in the trenches.
You can do LP provisions.
You could do limit orders and DCA, as well as this thing called Alpha and finding different types of information.
And to kind of go like a little bit deeper to kind of just add some education to it.
So with Agent Hustle himself, I'll put in something up to the top if anyone wants to look at it.
We kind of had two different types of users, and it took us about three months to really identify it.
There's this bucket of what you call trenchers, I guess, who are using Agent Hustle specifically,
where they're coming in and they're saying things like,
hey, Agent Hustle, I want to find a token
that could 3x in the next 24 hours.
It needs to have 1,000 holders.
It needs to be between $100,000 market cap
and $1 million market cap.
It needs to have memetic potential.
I want you to then give me a list of the top five that you think are right.
Then he'll spit out tokens based off this criteria. Some people will take it one step further and put
in all these different types of trading strategies and stuff. And then from there, the users will say,
I like token three that you bought. So buy it with one soul, set a stop loss at 15%,
bought. So, you know, buy it with one soul, set a stop loss at 15%, and then set three take profits
at 15%, 100%, 200%. And so we call that kind of AFK trading. That's our own internal system we
bought, which means away from keyword trading. So you could just like set these limits and then go
on and kind of go on with the rest of your day. That system is what we'll be taking over to Bitcoin,
to runes and to ordinals and all these other ecosystems. And you can actually take it one
step further with news-based trading. So you could do something like, this is kind of a few
months from now, but I could say, buy three taproot wizards. and then anytime Udi talks about Israel,
please sell them immediately.
You could do something like that.
So it's like a news-based trigger
or you could do something much larger
where you could say buy Bitcoin
or buy a million sats
and then whenever Michael Saylor tweets
about buying more Bitcoin then buy another million sats or something like that.
So that's kind of what we're building with this conditional trading system.
The other side of users is what they use Hustle for is what we call a pocket analyst, where they're just using him to literally get news information because he does have access to a whole handful of other API services and MCPs.
Those are kind of where a lot of this data is coming from.
And so he can give you news information.
He also has access to the web.
So he can give you information on the Denver Broncos if you wanted to.
But if you wanted to stay specific to crypto,
he'll give you the top news stories of the day and he'll give you a specific market data on
Solana tokens or runes or whatever the strategy is. And the reason why users, that's nothing new
and novel, but the reason why many users like Agent Hustle is because he has a memory.
And I think he's the only one in crypto that actually possesses a memory.
And so what that means is he saves all of your conversations
and on-chain transactions with him.
And so you can go in and basically create a whole criteria for a daily news report.
And you could call it the Leonidas dog report.
And then every morning you could say, Agent Hustle know, the Leonidas dog report. And then every morning you
could say, you know, Agent Hustle, give me the Leonidas dog report and he'll report, you know,
anything about dog of whatever kind of story that you've crafted. Or you could save these different
types of trading strategies, which I mentioned kind of before. And so those are our kind of two
users. And I do think that he's probably the most capable AI agent in the space.
He may not have all of the financial tooling that some of these other agents have, but in my opinion,
I think it's the strongest AI. And that's why we built things like an MCP server and this SDK for
other developers. There's actually, Leo, I don't know if you've seen the Leonidas dog rune. Have
you seen that Twitter account by chance? I think so, yeah.
I follow them, I think, yeah.
So that gentleman is actually somebody from our community. He's using
Agent Hustle SDK, or the MCP server, I should say,
to create an on-chain
dog trading strategy for Solana.
So basically he uses Agent Hustle to get dog information
and sets areas to buy zones and take profit zones,
as well as something with the LP.
And he has built his own internal AI as well,
so he uses two of these in coordination
for a dog trading strategy on Solana.
And I think that's why it's important for dogs to be everywhere
is that you can do this type of automation, right?
Just specifically on Solana to kind of craft that kind of stuff.
So AI is definitely going to be very game-changing
to everything that comes here.
And we just want to be at the forefront of that.
I think we're probably, in my opinion, a top five project.
The token is not reflective, I think, of the users and such.
But yeah, our goal is to definitely be here on Bitcoin here in the next few months.
That's what I'm most excited for because I always think, in my opinion, I still think the Bitcoin ecosystem
is the most interesting thing out there.
Love it.
Yeah, and I think when you're building a company too,
it's like, I think just differentiating is usually,
like there's a group of people here
that's totally untapped into,
and I think the Sauna ecosystem
is probably being served by multiple agents.
I think there is some differentiation that could be pretty cool.
And I think you'll get support from the people here.
I think people would find that really, really dope.
I'm curious.
It's a guy today.
Is there going to be a female Scarlett Johansson hustle in the future?
Is there any plans for branching out multiple personalities?
Or is it just focused on agent hustle today?
You know, it's a good question.
So we when we went about creating the project, we wanted to go about it more in a monolithic perspective.
So there's kind of like two design frameworks that I'm seeing in the AI agent kind of space where you see that you come to these platforms
and there will be dozens of agents to choose from
and they do one specific thing.
So for example, if you go to something like Griffin,
you'll see there's 60 or 70 different options
and it's like, this is your limit order bot,
this is your meme coin bot,
this is your news bot, et etc. We wanted to go the
completely opposite direction because we felt that that was very confusing. It was even confusing for
me as an advanced user. We felt that would be very confusing for somebody who is not really engaging
with it at all. So we wanted to just create one agent who essentially kind of does everything.
Obviously, this makes it a little bit more complex in the background.
I do think we will have to probably expand to maybe one or two other types of agents
where I'm seeing some other platforms.
You'll have specifically a trading agent.
You'll have specifically a news agent.
And then you'll have specifically a smart contract agent.
And I think that's probably the best direction to go.
Personifying them, I think, is also the right direction.
So maybe we will have to make one of them female
or to kind of customize it will be pretty interesting.
But right now, we're all just sticking to one agent
to really just try to make it as simple as possible.
And on our interface, you'll kind of see we added this traditional UX with this newer UX.
So on the left-hand side, when you go to it, you'll see swap tools and LP pools and things
you're familiar with.
And then on the right-hand side is the prompt terminal.
And so you can actually interact with the platform in a traditional sense,
or you could do everything kind of prompting to kind of create that flow.
And it's the same thing we'll do with like ordinals and such.
And hopefully over time, expand this market into some gamification
and some other type of ideas.
And this is where I think kind of like one of the final stages of this is
you'll hear this word a lot, swarms or kind of like agent to agent communication
where you get multiple agents where something like Agent Hustle
will communicate with the Leonidas dog root.
And they'll either interact in some social way
or they'll do some'll like kind of either interact in some social way or they'll do some
sort of automation together and i think this is kind of where this world is going to go where
most people are going to be using multiple agents maybe for multiple platforms to do different types
of things on their behalf and at the end of the day what it is doing is it's just like
equalizing the playing ground from what TradFi tooling or what the tools
or what TradFi has had this type of tooling for decades. And also what a lot of developers have
had something similar in the crypto space for a decade now. You know, all these developers who
are building MEV bots and arbitrage bots and such. What the AI sector is doing, AI agent sector and crypto is doing
is it's taking this tooling
and now putting it in retail's hands
and allowing them to participate
in a very similar manner.
And I think creativity is probably
going to be the skill
that is going to give you the edge in trading
once kind of this AI UX
becomes a lot more mainstream. And so what I
recommend for most people is to just try it. Go to agenthustle.ai or the kind of pin post at the top
and kind of check out what's doing it, what it's like. And also try out some of the other platforms
because I think kind of one final point here is as kind of crypto progresses, my kind of thought or theory is that, you know, there's over 1 billion active AI subscriptions between over to crypto and they are much more familiar with a chat GBT terminal than they are a phantom or an Xverse web extension wallet.
No offense to you, Jan, but I'm just kind of saying how most of these people are.
No, no, no. Go harder. Dunk on Yon. We want you to dunk on Yon.
And so it's literally like a 20 or 30x more users.
And so if you're not familiar with AI, these people who come into crypto are going to be familiar with AI.
And they're going to know how to interact with things with natural language.
And they're not going to be participating in this, you know, web extension kind of bridging experience. They're going to just
have the AI do it. And so this is why I just recommend most people to try it out and become
familiar with it. The products aren't fully at its kind of end state, but using it now is like
kind of getting into NFTs in 2021 or getting into DeFi in 2020, right? Or kind of getting into Ethereum in 2017.
Like the intelligence cycle is, I'm convinced,
is the next cycle as we kind of leave the attention cycle.
And the cycle before that was like the utility cycle.
So AI will be in the majority of products in some capacity.
And yeah, it would just be in your best interest
to at least understand how this stuff works so that when that next wave does come, you have an
advantage and you have the edge and you're the one who can profit off of it or build a business
around it and be very, very aware and very understanding of what's to come. So if I go to
Agent Hustle AI today,
you mentioned there's a smart wallet that gets created.
Am I just connecting my Solana wallet
and then sending money into my smart wallet
that's in browser?
I'm just curious a little more specifics
like what's my exact experience for the most basic thing.
Like I want to do this right now.
I want to go buy some dog on Solana.
I can't actually do that since I have never bought dog before. I'd like to be able to say that I don't buy dog just so that people don't
think I'm like playing weird games. But if someone wants to buy dog, they want to use the agent
hustle, like practically speaking, like, you know, people come on this show and like talk about their
products and kind of the abstract. What is my actual experience like today going to do that?
Yeah. So you're going to go to agent hustle.ai. You can sign in with your Google account right
now and you can be on the platform within like 10 seconds. We are working on the X integration
and the Apple integration, but you can also sign in with Phantom Wallet and MetaMask,
et cetera. Once we expand to Bitcoin, you'll be able to sign in with any of the Bitcoin wallets.
And it just creates a smart account for you.
You'll see the interface
and then you could basically just send soul in to it.
And literally the first prompt you could say is,
buy me dog with all of the soul in my wallet.
And it should be done all in about-
I type in buy dog with all the soul in my wallet.
Does it give me a confirmation where I'm like, yes, like I confirm, or does it literally just go through it
and say like, okay, I just bought dog,
you have this much dog, like what's that experience like?
Yeah, so we have some safety mechanisms in there.
So there will be a confirmation to say,
it'll give the contract address and say,
would you like me to purchase dog
and kind of give you a summary.
For most DGENs, they don't
like that. So in the settings feature, you can turn off safe mode, but there is a safe mode in
there initially, because there are times where the AI hallucinates or more, I'd say the biggest
issue is generally with copycat tokens, where when people are trenching and there's a new hot token,
and then there's like 50 copycats, sometimes the AI can get tricked. So that's when the safe mode
mostly comes on. But the reason why I say Agent Hustle is the most powerful AI that exists is
because you actually don't have to be that specific with them, comparative to some of the
other competitors. I think it's just Shannon's done,
Shannon and the dev team has done a really good job
at building him in a sophisticated way
with their decades of experience in the space.
And you could literally just put
BUY DOG in all caps
with all of the soul in my wallet.
And I almost guarantee you he'd buy the right dog
and you would have dog in your wallet all within probably about a minute from signing up.
That is pretty sick.
That's pretty cool.
That's pretty cool.
And obviously I think, you know, that basic use case is what a lot of people will do, but then you will get comfortable with it and want to do more.
And I think that's where all of this like asynchronous going and working on your behalf kind of comes in.
And that's like, you know, maybe I want a dollar cost average into dog and make a buy on salon every hour of $5 or whatever, whatever it ends up being.
Okay.
Yeah, this is really cool, man.
This is cool.
I'm glad.
I've seen you guys kind of grinding, you know, building towards this.
I think a lot of the, a lot of the like AI people, like we're kind of just like cash grabbing in the first part of it and then kind of left and then i think a lot of the like uh dgens you know
how they are they like they're just farming oh it's monad today it's this one tomorrow they're
just like they're farming stuff and like that group of trades transient traders kind of moved
through and then moved out again but what's left is basically a group of people who actually believe
in like hey probably ai and crypto is probably, you know, AI is transforming the entire world, if you guys haven't noticed.
It's like by far the biggest thing happening in the world, like by a long shot.
It's transforming human civilization.
And, yeah, basically the implications on every industry, including ours, are going to be profound.
And, yeah, this is not something that's going away.
You can't just put AI, tuck it away and pretend it doesn't exist.
Like it's here.
It's going to be obviously a very big deal.
I don't even need to say that anymore.
It's like just everybody just kind of understands that that's the case.
And yeah, like the suite of builders building right now are going to be the ones who power
the next wave power the next
wave when the degen's come back and you probably watch jake like we've gone through this with
ordinals and ruins we have these basically expansion and compression periods bitcoin
does the same thing in these like four-year cycles we're basically just the way human psychology
works around speculation there's lots of fomo and hype and then uh lots of like fear this is how it
works and i think that's pretty pretty normal it's just how it works. And I think that's pretty, pretty normal. It's
just how human, it's how our brains are wired basically, especially when they work in like a
collective hive mind type thing. So yeah, man, I'm excited for this like next wave. I'm curious.
I think a lot of people will be very surprised by, oh, I thought it was just the influencer
AI bots. It's like, no, there's actually a bunch of cool shit going on. And I think people are
going to be very pleasantly surprised by the stuff that, you know, gets built. Um, that's like way,
way more impressive than what we saw in that kind of December height moment, which I think was cool.
I thought it was like, there was a lot of novelty to it, but, um, I think, yeah, you guys are
building something that's just like much, much more powerful and ultimately more utility, um,
building something that's just like much, much more powerful and ultimately more utility.
Tools that people will actually really use for more than just novelty. Like this is a literal
way to go buy dog now where I can tell people, Hey, you want to buy dog? You can go to agent
hustle. You can just load up some soul and say, Hey, I'd like to buy dog. Right? Like this is a
solving a legitimate problem that people have, which is like, how do I buy dog? Like this kind
of stuff. So yeah, man, I'm excited for this. I don't know when the next wave is going to happen.
It's like impossible to kind of time these things,
but I think it's coming.
And I think it's going to be exciting to see that happen.
And I think these are the moments where I also tell people,
I'm like, look, when everybody's freaking out
and tweeting about AI again,
and like, you know, ThreadGuy and Ansem
are just tweeting about AI all day again.
I think they're onto like internet capital markets right now or whatever.
But bottom line is those guys are going to come back around and they're going to be tweeting
about AI crypto, I guarantee at some point in the future.
And it would definitely, you're definitely better off spending some time now when it's
a little contrarian, understanding where things are going than just listening to
some giant KOL who's like basically probably not an expert on the topic and they just move around
go figure some stuff out do your own research figure some stuff out for yourself play around
I guarantee you there will be like some competitor to agent hustle that like some weird dev shop
spins up in like a week that's like really crappy and they are like really good
at marketing and financially engineering their token and everybody ends up buying that but you
know those things always go to zero and like you can see right now and we've seen this in ordinals
and ruins like bet on the people who have been here in the ups and the downs the people who just
show up for the ups these are not people you want to bet on right are not, this is not a good financial decision pretty much across the board.
I've never really seen that work out when you bet on those people.
So yeah, go check out Agent Hustle.
I know you guys have like a token as well.
And yeah, I just encourage people to check out the actual product and give it a try.
I'm going to have to go after this and give it a little spin and see what the hype's about.
And I'm looking forward to seeing more reports in my timeline of you guys hitting a million weekly
users and stuff. It just keep going up and up and up, or a million weekly requests and numbers going
up and up and up, because I think y'all are tapping into something, right? You're tapping
into something. And I'd much rather see you guys have like 100 super hardcore users than, you know,
10,000
or 100,000 DGENs who don't use the product or just hyping your token.
So yeah, I appreciate that, man.
Yeah.
Final point here and then we can kind of move on or continue on the conversation.
Yeah, I'm excited to come.
I'll be excited to come back in a few months and kind of showcase how this works with Bitcoin, I think people will be actually really surprised
how AI or AI agents brings automated trading
for runes, for ordinals,
and this different type of conversation.
It's really just got to help yourself out and try it out.
It's really easy to use. It's literally just like ChatG yourself out and try it out. It's really easy to use.
It's literally just like ChatGPT.
Save yourself some time.
It is a little contrarian.
We do have, again, like 100 or 200 kind of power users.
There's a few of them in the crowd I see that are literally using AgentHustle all day, every day.
We've had one gentleman create a DAOs.fund investment fund that's using Agent Hustle
as kind of the token picker and seems to be having a lot of success doing that, as well
as a few other builders who've integrated Agent Hustle's MCP into real estate is kind
of interesting, as well as domain flipping.
Somebody gave me an example.
I live out in Vegas of like,
it was giving them recommendations on which houses to buy that are considered undervalued
and to flip, which is kind of interesting. And yeah, it's just truly going to revolutionize the
space at some point in time. And so just really happy and excited to be in the position. We're
continuing to build. We don't fluff our numbers by any capacity i see some we go on some spaces and user people are
saying they have 500 000 daily active users and i'm like well i guess you have the entire crypto
space using your platform um in some capacity it's it's funny kind of how all that works but
a lot of projects are still being built we are getting into the kind of defy ai
sector and and it seems like now crypto is kind of becoming downstream of ai which is kind of
interest kind of unfortunate at times but ai is the more powerful kind of medium and you know a
lot of people in the ai space think that the majority of users of crypto are going to be
agents it's actually not going to be you know users like us crypto are going to be agents. It's actually not going to be users like us.
It's going to be multiple agents on our behalf doing things in an automated way.
So that will be kind of interesting as that space evolves.
But to pack it up, I just think it's the intelligence cycle that's coming next.
Probably at some point next year, it'll be very apparent.
And just do all of yourselves a favor.
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
And I think that's already happening.
I don't know if it's AI, but I'm pretty sure there's a stat that over half the transactions on Solana are bots.
They're not humans.
They're strategies running in the background on some computer that have nothing to do with a human, you know, clicking a button in an app or something like that. So I'm fairly confident that, yeah, like
basically in my mind, 100% chance the majority of crypto transfers and transactions and volume and
stuff will be bots in the future. And I think that's already how the traditional economy works.
It's just AI is going to only basically accelerate that trend um okay very cool jake uh you coming through man
i've got a question for you uh we got the billy account down there do you think that's bongo
lurking on the ordinal show in the billy account or do you think that's somebody else dude it's
got to be bongo actually at bitcoin vegas i got to meet bongo's brother. Man, Bongo doesn't have access to the main account, man.
He doesn't have access to the main account.
I don't believe it because those guys cannot trust that guy, you know?
He would be tweeting some bullshit.
I heard that Bongo's brother was like a more like handsome version of Bongo.
Is that true?
Yeah, guy's a player, man. Definitely.
At least he doesn't post his food
every day, so that's a benefit.
Alright.
Jan,
I also heard that Banga's brother is pretty strong.
Did you arm wrestle him?
Man, I saw pictures. I unfortunately
didn't meet him in person because I was
running around the conference too much.
So didn't manage to hang out with him.
But he looks big, you know, on the pictures as well.
So, yeah, man, maybe they share the genes, you know, like for real.
All right.
All right.
Well, look, I think we're coming to a pretty natural conclusion on the show here, guys.
We've been going for almost three hours.
Appreciate Cynthia.
You've been staying strong with us.
Vito, appreciate you, man.
Coach, I appreciate you getting Bob in here.
Guys, I think that's probably a wrap.
Jan, do you have any final thoughts here?
No, I think that's a wrap i uh i mean one thing that i i think we should probably talk about
at some point is really all these ipos these crypto ipos right and what kind of impact it's
going to have on on you know everything that we're doing here because it's pretty interesting right
like i i kind of missed out on the circle
side of things like i i was like hey that's that's crazy you know it's not gonna pump so hard and
and it's pumped harder than like fucking some meme coins you know when you look at the chart
after the ipo so congrats to everybody who actually managed to get in and uh you know who is still in
right now but uh but yeah like i think that's an interesting
trend right like with all these ipos i'm not sure a lot of people say hey it's a bubble
it's uh you know it's it's not gonna sustain for too long but at the same time like you know we
have not seen that many yet right we have only seen like a couple uh couple real companies that
have been in crypto for a very long time going public just now.
Obviously, you have the treasury companies.
That's a different story.
But actual crypto businesses, we only have seen very few of them so far.
So I also don't know if that's like a bubble.
If we see an IPO of a crypto company every other day, then probably that's the sign of a bubble.
But right now, we don't see it yet. So I would be really curious to kind of discuss this topic every other day, then probably that's the sign of a bubble. But right
now we don't see it yet. So I would be really curious to kind of discuss this topic at some
point, Leo, because I think it's going to be, it's going to have a huge impact on just like
fundraising activity in the crypto startup world. You know, obviously I'm not sure how it's going
to translate to meme coins, but, but I I'm sure that there is going to be some, some relationship
there. Yeah. I think we don't, we can talk more about it on another show, but I'm sure that there is going to be some relationship there. Yeah, I think we can talk more about it on another show, but I think two immediate thoughts
that come to mind is I think just the trend of being able to go public as a crypto company
in the US, which in the prior administration was extremely difficult to do, that opportunity
is probably going to have a nice effect in that, you know, I don't think
every product or company needs to have a token, right? I think you should be able to build a
software business with just a normal business model and, you know, be a sustainable thing in
the space and sustainably building crypto. And, you know, when you become worth a billion dollars,
you get to go public and you get liquidity that way.
A lot of the VCs are very hyper-focused on token warrants and launching tokens and pushing companies to launch tokens because there wasn't that high of a probability of going public. Even these companies like OpenSea and Ugo Labs and stuff, it wasn't a consideration, oh, we're going to go public.
And I think a lot of that had to do with the regulatory aspect.
And these more established companies that are going public, I don't think people are
just like, oh, my gosh, Circle just went public.
Now we need to go public.
There may be some of that.
But I think a lot of these companies were probably looking at, OK, you know, Trump won
the election.
We're in a crypto friendly U.S. now.
We're going to start our, you know, it takes a long time to go public like sometimes multiple years they're gonna start their you know going public process and i think
this these are probably decisions made by these companies you know six months ago after the
election probably and that's we're just seeing uh the kind of final outcomes of that but these are
probably decisions that were made a while ago and i expect to see a lot more companies go public. Now, as far as like the,
there's a huge difference to me between a company that like has proven themselves in crypto and like has a product on the market with many users they've been building here for years and they go
public. And then these people like Eric, Trump's son, who are, in my opinion, just massive grifters,
just like slapping the
word crypto on stuff and kind of wrapping other technologies and like going, getting involved
with like going public with things that they probably shouldn't be available for public
necessarily to buy. And maybe that sounds controversial, but I basically see a suite
of like legit crypto companies that people are going to be able to buy and then a suite of kind of scammy crypto companies that I don't think will provide any real meaningful it in the public markets now because you're right. It's like the new token launch at the billion dollar scale is the IPO, is the, you know,
trading on the NASDAQ.
And, you know, those people are going to show up there and, you know, throw the word, you
know, hey, we're a Bitcoin treasury company and are like weird, unrelated to Bitcoin company
for the past five years.
I mean, these things are just like, I don't know. I don't know.
I, yeah, I think again, there's legit, there's legit. And then there's like scammy grifty
and you have to sort out for yourself. Right. I think there's legit, there's legit Bitcoin
treasury companies by Bitcoin people who are obsessed with Bitcoin for the last many years.
And then there's like probably going to be a bunch of grifter treasury companies that are like totally garbage that I
would definitely not put any money into. Just trying to basically make a bunch of money very
fast. And then the same thing applies to stable coin companies. Circle was super successful.
And people like Eric Trump are going to show up and like say, oh, you know, after that,
in the last three months, I found a huge passion for making stable coins.
And I'm going to launch a stable coin company.
And before we even have a successful stable coin, we're probably going to do some giant token or IPO kind of thing.
That's the shit to watch out for.
Bet on the people who've been here for a while building stuff.
Do not bet on the people who are just showing up when something's super hot. It's basic stuff, but I think that applies to tokens as much as it does to these
people who are launching stocks and SPACs and IPOs and all that stuff. I think it's the same
exact thing, just on a larger scale probably, so be careful. But yeah, Jan, in general,
it's exciting. I think it's good for M M&A. It's good for, it's going to trickle down to, you know, like the VC is going
to be more comfortable writing a check into a $10 million startup because they know there's a
acquisition path of, you know, it's selling for a hundred million dollars to some company in the
US that's now public that has lots of capital.
We're getting to be first-class citizens in the American economy, which we were not for a long time.
And there's a lot of benefits of that.
And I think there's going to be good downstream effects to that.
So I agree with you.
Guys, I think that's a wrap.
I agree with you.
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, that's a wrap, bro.
Is the delay that bad?
I hear myself in your background. It's like three seconds
after I talk to you.
Oh, shit.
Okay, well, I don't know.
Maybe we have a delay today.
Anyway, so that means that we should wrap
it up, Leo.
I said that's
a wrap, but I didn't realize we were talking.
Do you want to say anything else?
No, no, no.
Let's talk about it on another show.
I think it's definitely very exciting.
I think we have seen a lot of acquisitions already.
You know, Stripe acquired Previ, right, the other day.
And they acquired a bunch of other companies before, also related to Stablecoin.
So, you know, i fully agree with you
i think it's gonna have a really good impact on fundraising on building in crypto especially if
you're building foundationally strong businesses and and products that people actually want to use
and not just like pump and dump i mean i've never believed in that obviously yes it's a big market
as well that's why people do it but uh but yeah i i think we're entering a
new era of just crypto and uh and blockchain tech in a sense you know uh i think we're kind of
graduating so so i think that's super exciting and just makes me like you know even more motivated
to be building in the space even though maybe the market is not super exciting in terms of like you know when we talk about meme coins when we talk about when we talk about runes
when we talk about just bitcoin like we're still kind of just scratching the surface
in terms of getting into the mainstream or getting into you know like having hundreds
and even millions of people daily using these things so So, you know, we need to work hard, but at the same time, I think it's the most exciting
time.
You know, we have kind of built a foundation.
We have the validation.
We have a meeting.
We have super strong community of people that are just showing up every day.
And plus, you know, yeah, the entire financial markets are going to be looking at us differently
now.
So yeah, I'm super excited about it. We can talk about it on another show though. Awesome. Yeah, I'm curious. I think Trevor
probably liked to be part of that conversation as well and agree the Privy acquisition was like
very smart. That's not like there's some companies where like, okay, like you just say we're going to
clone what they did inside of our large strike organization. Privy, like there's not that many
companies like Privy
and that's like very, very hard tech stuff they're doing
to do that securely.
And that was a very brilliant acquisition.
I'm excited to see Stripe basically saying
the future of their company is crypto.
I mean, that's massively bullish.
Those guys are killers
and they're gonna probably bring this space forward a lot.
So I'm excited for that as well.
Guys, that's a wrap.
We will talk to you guys.
Everybody have a great weekend and we will see y'all on Monday. Have a'm excited for that as well. Guys, that's a wrap. We will talk to you guys. Everybody have a great weekend
and we will see you all on Monday.
Have a good one, guys.
Peace.
Have a great one, everybody.
Take care.
