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The Ordinal Show
Recorded: March 24, 2025 Duration: 1:55:51Space Recording
Full Transcription
Yn ystod y cyfle hwn, mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle, mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle. Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle.
Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle. Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle. I love the colorful clothes she wears
And the way the sunlight plays upon her head
I hear the sound of a gentle moon
On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air I'm picking up good vibrations, she's giving me the excitations.
I'm bucking my good vibrations, She's got a lot too excited.
Good, good, but pretty. She's got a lot too excited.
She's mine. She's somehow closer now.
Softly smile, I know she must be kind When in her eyes she goes with the tale of loss and woe
I'm pickin', good vibes, breeze.
She's bum bum, some excitation.
Bum bum bum, good vibes, breeze.
She's bum bum, some excitations.
Bum bum bum, good vibes, breeze.
She's bum bum, some excitation. I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm see me there I'm a man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man, man Gotta keep those love good, vibrations of heaven with her.
Gotta keep those love good, vibrations of heaven with her.
Gotta keep those love good, vibrations of heaven with her. Good morning
Bitcoiners that's right. You're here at the ordinals show
Welcome back to our regulars. Hello to our new friends
If this is your first time the ordinal show is a live podcast those are twice per week on xspaces
Starting 10 30 am ET Monday mornings and 6 of the week Wednesday nights going for multiple hours covering
various topics all about building new cool shit
on Bitcoin. Ordinals are not just a new kind of
NFT in Bitcoin but a massive movement of people
who care about growing Bitcoin's adoption
and bringing BTC to the masses.
More important than the protocol itself,
Ordinals is a cultural shift that's attracting
new developers and users, incredible artists
and accelerating innovation.
I'm Trevor.BTC, managing partner of the Bitcoin Frontier Fund and co-founder is a cultural shift that's attracting new developers and users, incredible artists, and accelerating innovation.
I'm Trevor.BTC, managing partner of the Bitcoin Frontier Fund and co-founder of Pizza Ninjas.
And I'm here with my co-host, the guy who'd rather skip his own show than skip leg day.
You can spell his name, but you can't pronounce it. Is it Jan, Jan, or Yan?
Anyway, he's the CSO at X-R-S-I, my man with the plan and the king of BTC smart
It is our eight outside of the history expert and co-founder of or dot IO and today in the stage
We're driven by Yohannes guys guys. We are doing better than last week at least one person up here on the stage things are getting better
I'd love to see it, but guys we know we're down. We know the market is bad
We know you're in the audience you're picking yourself up on a Monday morning like god damn it. Not another week
We're still at 80kk We're not over 100k
Not another goddamn week as a pick yourselves up hit that request to speak button and come up and join us up here
And have a good time to kick off the week. I've been into the top letting everyone know that we're live
Please take a second late to the top
Give it a like give it a read to show some love for the algorithms and welcome more people into space
Also smash that pearl button the bottom right hand corner your comments and questions some GM enough
She tweets in there will read your questions about the show
Don't forget to follow the Bitcoin ordinal show on Twitter or rather on X at the ordinal show subscribe to our sub stack newsletter link
In bio we post weekly recaps in the newsletter and our see place for future shows as well as a condensed version of this show
On Apple and Spotify podcast so you never miss what's happening on the leading edge of Bitcoin with that
I'm gonna turn over Leonidas to introduce today's show
Good morning Trevor excited for the show. We're trying to get y'all up here. I think he's having a little trouble joining
But yeah, I was able to take a look a little bit at the kind of word 1.0 announcement
We'd love to discuss that in a second here. I think there's
Some good stuff in there.
That's worth chatting about Bitcoin is like you mentioned up to 88,000 again,
which is nice to see we just I think just touched like 89,000 or back at 88,000.
It's a good day for Bitcoin.
I mean if you hold Bitcoin Peter Schiff is going around asking for people to
donate Bitcoin to him
for his reserve and Bitcoin is at $88,000.
So not a bad day, not a bad day.
Also I'm going to pin a post up here that just got 100 likes.
I promised everyone that if this reply gets 100 likes, we will break down
Jan's morning routine on the Ordinal show. And as promised, we will be breaking down Jan's morning routine on the Ordinal
show in a minute here. But we actually have to have Jan to do
that. Maybe we can do that a little bit later. But first,
yeah, Trevor, did you did anybody get a chance to Jan
Johannes Trevor take a look at the word 1.0
release the announcement podcast and I got kind of excited.
I got pretty fired up about that.
Actually Trevor you called out that we should talk about it
on the last show and nobody had watched it.
I went and checked it out and it's pretty I'm pretty fired
up. I'm pretty fired up.
I actually
I did check it out. But I honestly I forget exactly what is included in so it'll be good to review it. But there is
another thing I did want to bring up. This is what kind of
I'm confused because there has been a discussion of a new
feature, which I think is pretty cool, which is I it's being
called tributes by some and maybe sacrifices by other but I
think it's a pretty cool feature we should discuss on the Ordinal show.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it? Oh yeah, let's chat about it. Is
this like a word 1.0 kind of release feature? No, this is
like this is like in the GitHub like separate of what word 1.1.0
so let's hear it. I think you keep my attention. I know the
name is good, right? Why don't we? Why don't we like go over
order 1.0 first? You know, give people something to look forward
to and then we cover the tributes slash sacrifices feature at that.
OK, I'm trying to. He's been extremely active on Twitter. I'm scrolling through all this stuff trying to find this.
OK, OK, OK.
So I had a little exchange with Casey about this.
Like our gallery is going to be live basically for 1.0?
I think galleries is definitely one of the most exciting things.
Just to be clear, to set the scene here,
Ord is the open source client.
It's a hot wallet.
It is the Ordinals protocol.
It is the ruins protocol.
It is basically, you know, Casey's and Raph have been, you know,
developing this.
There's been a handful of open source contributors.
Trevor.
I don't know you actually have you had a like, have you had a
commit yet?
Are you technically a contributor now?
I know you've been not me personally, but we worked on a commit with Greg that we got approved for the pizza pets.
Nice.
So yeah, I mean whether you literally did it yourself or we're working through someone else.
Basically, it's an open source project and the repo the protocol.
It's been in alpha for about a year.
It turned basically a year ago into beta.
Then it went back to alpha very momentarily
when Runes came out.
And then now it's back to beta.
And ORD 1.0 represents coming out of beta.
It's like it's production ready.
In software development, again,
this might be nothing to most people,
but it just means that it's a more complete version
of the protocol where it doesn't need,
hopefully it doesn't need a ton of changes.
It doesn't, it should be pretty reliable.
I think it was somewhat acceptable to me
when we're having to roll back to old versions of org
because Casey shipped a bug. If you're an alpha, that's
kind of the point of alpha is that you can expect to have
rollbacks and things like this. If we go to order 1.0 and
there's like a bug, that's I would say a bigger deal. So
this is the Ordinal's protocol. runes or you know growing up.
It's a big moment. It's a big moment. There is not a specific
date to be clear. Or 1.0. It's not actually out yet.
But Casey basically laid out a vision for or 1.0 coming out of
beta and there were a handful of things in it. Like I personally
got the most excited about the agents thing. You can chat about
that in a second. But yeah galleries, you know, Casey came on
this show and really chatted about
galleries for the first time about six months ago and I don't
know your guys felt like it hasn't really changed that much
since then.
It's basically it's trying to address the whole okay, you
know, some of these collections aren't parent-child some of
these collections are not adopting parent-child.
Collection provenance is still not in a great state.
Unfortunately, I think anybody who kind of builds in a space is aware of this.
Hopefully to the end user, it's not too much of a big deal, but it can be annoying to get your collection index, right?
It's like a centralized off-chain collection indexing process.
Rather than on these other
change.
There's more provenance of like what's in and out of the collection.
We've actually seen unfortunately due to this, you know, magic
Eden will occasionally, you know, it gives the tools of what
is in the collection or not to the creator.
So like creators on magic Eden will create this collection and
then they'll like start moving shit in and out of the collection
which I'm just like adamantly against I get why people do it but it's like it's just a textbook example of like humans getting greedy thinking they're doing good things but the reality is like it just means we have shit provenance for our stuff if one dude can just you know remove stuff from the collection and add new shit into the collection. It's like pretty shitty provenance to be honest. So
Yeah, basically this is attempting to address that and what it is is it's really just
You're basically creating like anybody can in a decentralized manner create a basically grouping of inscriptions and
People can choose to use that or not use that so I
could make a collection of pizza ninjas and add a fake one into it you know
probably people would be smart enough to know that's not the one to use maybe
Trevor would add a gallery right group you know the actual pieces together
create a gallery and then you know websites can reference this
maybe or .io can just you know point to this gallery for the collection source
of truth but yeah ultimately like it's it's interesting I'm not I'm not totally
convinced it's gonna solve our problems all of our problems on the collection
front unfortunately it's just I don't know.
It's like, it's a little tricky, but I think it's worth trying.
Like I'm huge fan of just like, let's try shit.
And it's not in a great state right now.
It's probably the weakest point of the Ordinals protocol.
Like if I was going to nitpick it and I was going to be like an eith maxi trying to shit
on Ordinals, I would absolutely go after our collection provenance situation. I think this could
potentially be at least an answer that we can give to these
guys. But I'm curious yet before we move from galleries to other
stuff. Does anybody have thoughts on galleries or it's an
important thing to talk about this because it's not actually
live yet we could shit on this we could poop poop this idea and
Casey like maybe what will you know fix figure out a better way to do collections. I don't
know. Johannes, what's your thoughts on galleries?
Yeah, so I agree with you. It's a nice feature. But as you said, we have a
working system somehow. I mean, it's not perfect, but NFTs are also not
perfect. So I would say the solution with everybody goes to Magic Eden
is right now good enough.
So I think having now galleries as a feature of all
will basically change nothing because we already
have a solution.
It's not perfect, but it's a solution.
But I also think it's a big problem is that the metadata is not at all
standardized and Casey is also talking a little bit about this on Helibonnie podcast. But
yeah, here we have to also figure out how to do it. He's always saying, yeah, what people
upload on JSON is inefficient, but then we would need some community consents,
how to structure the metadata correctly, for example having author field, artist field,
whatever field, and this would be a big amount of work and this would require some kind of consents
and what the Ethereum people somehow already have, you know,
and everybody knows how to do it on OpenSea.
It's not a big problem.
They have made a standard.
Everybody is following it.
And I think as long as we are not getting some real standards,
there will be little really no change.
So it's nice to have, but I don't see any benefits now when we get galleries.
I would expect that nothing changes. Sorry, I'm more excited about agents.
I'm with you, Johannes, unfortunately.
I want this to succeed.
I think that the Magic Gator collection situation is kind of shitty personally.
If you actually sign up for the API key and go try to surf up all the collection data,
just randomly collections will be missing three
inscriptions.
It's like as someone who like, you know, I take NFTs like
pretty seriously.
I consider this like like this is actual art collections.
This is not just like children's, you know, crazy speculation
shit like it's absolutely insane that you cannot get like
a legit correct set of data like that's it's absolutely insane that you cannot get like a legit.
Correct set of data like that's it's fucking insane.
So to me some solution to that that takes that more seriously.
I'm all for I hope it gets adopted.
I know, you know, I've talked to Robert about this quite a bit.
The question data situations isn't super ideal.
But yeah, I mean,
the gallery thing is the tough one.
To be honest, I hope you're wrong.
I hope we're wrong. But I do think it's an attempt and it could work.
It has the possibility to work.
I want to go to query.
I'm just curious to hear your thoughts query.
Hey Leo. Hey Trevor, hey everyone.
Yeah so I think that the only thing that can save us is basically a small icon or a small
exclamation mark from Magic Eden that's placed over the collections that don't have parent-child
provenance Not like punishing them or something but like
marking them as
slightly less
Collect less of a collection then then a real own chain collection
And I believe that galleries or like a github or everything else that we do
Will probably not save us because people don't really care about the geeky stuff
They care about the trading they go to magic Eden. They do their trading and like if
Off-chain collection is just as good on magicEthern as an on-chain collection, then
pretty much nobody gives a crap.
So I suspect that the only entity that can save us from this situation is MagicEthern.
Regarding the OpenSea parallel, I think that OpenSea right from from the get go like read the metadata from
from the smart contract directly. I suspect that if back in 2021 open see collected this
Jason's with metadata, then it would have been the same situation on if you're yet. So yeah, I
think it's up to Magic Eden, unfortunately.
So be careful telling the OCEM crowd about that
exclamation point idea. They're gonna go crazy with that.
Dogfather, what are your thoughts here? Query shared it pretty, I honestly couldn't really
disagree with the whole lot there either, to be honest, at least
for the current situation.
Dogfather, go ahead.
Yeah, GM guys.
I think one dimension you have to bear in mind is that the whole situation gives Magic
Eden quite a lot of market power.
I mean, I love the guys, but still, this is typically not healthy if one centralized entity
has so much power to decide on, basically decide
on this collection meter. So I'm all in for any suggestion how to decentralize that and how to
get rid of a centralized player who has too much power. So, and if that's what we currently see with this collection staff, or whether this is more
like an industry-wide standard that everyone is pushing, of course, then Magic Eden needs
to be in line.
I don't mind, actually, but I don't want of the magic Eden thing or not.
I think like any time.
Any like basically to have up to date good collection shit, you either have to build
this like super custom sync with magic Eden, which still is just it's a shitty solution
because you have inaccurate data still because they don't take their data accuracy super
seriously or you basically have to, you know, have a team that's like, you know,
vetting in real time, you know, basically like when new collections are dropping
pretty fast, it's pretty important to have the new collection listed very fast
so people can start trading, right?
And it's a race and you would basically have to, you know, be big enough to
afford like a full time, you know, two people who are watching that at all times.
And it's not just like, oh, I got to add the question.
It's like, no, you got to talk to the founder.
Make sure you're getting the correct collection.
You're not getting scammed.
And we've even watched companies like Unisat, which I would consider
pretty big.
They can't really justify the resources to do that even.
They're listing collections that have like fake OMBs in it and
stuff. So it's not easy if big,
you know, large companies can't figure it out.
The small startups are definitely screwed and it's just, yeah,
it's not, it's not ideal to,
uh, to basically have the current state of things.
Like it's a real pain and they asked for me.
I get messages, you know, literally every couple of days.
Hey, please index my collection and I have to tell him OK send send the Jason to
this email and we'll get it done and then I have to message our
developer. You know it's it's a real pain in the ass to do that
for 1000 collections. It's just not. It doesn't scale. It's not
good. It's not. It's not ideal and to be honest, I'm like man.
It's like I'm kind of trusting the person that their shit was correct
It's like who knows maybe they removed five pieces or something, right? I didn't literally go through and check every single piece
It's like that's for
Yeah, it's just a real pain in the ass. So um, yeah, man. I
Hear you. I hear you manikin. Um, I'm curious results on galleries
Yeah, good morning from Colorado. So, uh So you know, I'm just speaking for myself.
I have a very small collection that was before Parent Child.
And thank you for taking your time, Leo.
You actually put my updated collection on Ordido.
And so I mean, for me in the long run, I'm very excited about it because it's
something you know it's a very small collection but it's a sub 1 million and
like in 10 years you know is Magic Eden even going to be here what's going to be
here in 20 years so something has to be done and so for me I hope it it comes
to fruition where it's an actual on-chain collection and I'm actually
also curious,
hypothetically, can someone just buy up a bunch of sub one million inscriptions that
aren't really in a collection and create their own collection, put that on chain, stuff like that?
Because I created my collection from two separate wallets. So who, who, you know, who's to say that?
Is it from one wallet from two wallets stuff like that?
So, you know, it's just hypotheticals for me and I'm excited, you know,
because I'm just holding my stuff for the long term.
Yeah, Trevor likes to bring up the alien tests were like, you know,
human civilization fails aliens come to Earth and they find out, you know,
Bitcoin core, you know, what what do they think?
I like we just don't pass that test with our collections is like I'll be honest.
Like we definitely don't if you like look at Bitcoin frogs, for example, they would you know look and they would probably see people, you know, they put together ordinal theory and all this stuff.
theory and all this stuff.
They probably see people trading Bitcoin frogs a lot.
But like quite frankly, like there's all the naked frogs and stuff, right?
You would get this like clusterfuck of like 13,000 inscriptions or something.
They would probably have a really big Bitcoin frog collection, you know, or something.
So there's just infinite situations like this.
They're all edge cases.
They're all nuanced.
And yeah, we don't pass like we have very weak collection provenance is the reality.
Like yes, there's the magic in an angle.
Yes, it's the pain in the ass for builders.
Blah blah blah blah.
Yes, people can remove things and it gets misused.
The summary is we have terrible collection provenance.
And if you're spending tens of thousands of dollars, you know, buying this like fully on
change a peg, which like we go around and tout that this thing is fully on chain.
Well, the fact that it's in a collection is not fully on chain for a lot of these right for the parent-child it is which is awesome.
And I really do want to shout out the collections that adopted that right but a lot of collections didn't have the chance to adopt it
or for a variety of reasons because you know, they're expanding the collection or something.
They're not adopting it.
Whatever it is, a lot of collections don't have parent-child
and it's a reality and like a lot of our valuable collections
that we all like don't have a parent-child and you know,
what are we going to do about that?
So galleries is supposed to be the answer.
Yann, have you gotten a chance to kind of look at galleries
and curious to hear your thoughts at maybe X versus perspective?
Cause I know you guys are doing a lot of that as well.
Yeah, I mean, I have been listening.
I actually listened to bunch of times,
to what Casey has been talking about,
but also like listening to you guys right now,
I think it's very interesting.
I'm just curious if,
like let's say we really, I mean, we all want this to
succeed, right?
Like we want to have that provenance.
I mean, that's unquestionable.
So like, what do you guys think needs to happen?
Let's say if this becomes actually a live feature tomorrow, like, what do we need to
Do we need to get all of the, let's say, even still active collections on Bitcoin to basically just like create a verified type of gallery.
Do you think that is going to solve the issue?
Like, like what should be the thing that we need to rally people about?
Like if we really want to make sure that this fucking succeeds and we move forward.
So the word verified is interesting because it's like who verifies, right?
Like the thing about...
I guess the founder, the founder of the collection.
I mean, as you said, like if Trevor comes out tomorrow...
Do they send out a tweet?
Is that what a verified means?
Like it's not on chain.
Yeah.
That it's like...
Yeah.
The gallery can be created by anyone and this is the important thing to understand.
Like it's not necessarily having to be created by the people who created the collection. So the provenance on chain is not there. But theoretically what
we do is kind of have, you know, it's one less step of community consensus. Because
if you do have all of these galleries on chain that are like grouping them together and there
would obviously, you know, there might be a fake one, but then there's probably, you
know, a real one that somebody did then all you have to
index off chain is basically the list of which galleries to use and I will say
that's like easier for builders it gives us one step further and yeah and I mean
my my takeaway for people would be create galleries even if you're not the
official collection you know work with the founders,
try to create galleries, get all of these, you know, there's
1000 collections, right? You got to get galleries for every
single one of them, probably many of them, the founders are
gone, we're gonna have to do it ourselves. And I think
volunteer and create create those and yeah, like try to
figure it out and have you know, maybe we have a forum where
people like shit on the gallery.
It's like, oh, you missed this one or you followed the magic eat
and you know mapping that's like jank or something like this
and take seriously provenance and trying to figure this out
and sort through them one by one, but then off-chain you kind
of come to a consensus of what are the you know, quote-unquote
proper galleries.
I don't think the answer you ought is to have a search bar
where you just search for pizza pets
and then any gallery called pizza pet shows up.
I think that's a disaster.
I don't think that's kind of what the end user wants.
I think they do want one pizza pets collection on a website
when they go to it on a marketplace or explore or wallet.
So yeah, we gotta figure that, we got to figure that out.
We got to figure that out.
And I think it's still off chain coordination,
but at least the what's in a collection is on chain.
And then we just need to know which collections are legit.
That's pretty much the question.
Joannes, do you have anything to add there?
Yeah, exactly to that topic.
So I think one month ago on spaces,
we exactly talked with Casey about exactly galleries
and who has the authority to decide
which gallery is now the legit one.
If it's in humans, it's easy.
The founders can just make a parent-child connection
to a gallery and then it's clear
this is the official gallery.
But the big question is with all these
existing, let's call it legacy, collections how to get consensus on what is the real gallery
and there we had some ideas left and right and in the end Casey said you know somebody should build
some website that is creating these galleries
where people decide what's the official one
or the one that gets the most votes.
Then we even talked about making some on-chain vote,
but that would be of course very expensive.
So back and forth,
we talked a little bit exactly about that topic.
And in the end, it's somehow a community job
to decide which gallery is the real one
and with some kind of voting mechanism.
But it starts as a small idea.
And then he said, yeah, you should build that.
You are the builder of the space.
But I said, exactly.
You get no money for this, and it will be a painful, long job.
So if anybody wants to do it, Casey likes that idea,
create something like officialordinatesgallery.com
and try to get that thing working,
but it would be a painful, a big amount of work.
So I'm not expecting that somebody will picking up
the torch very soon, but that would be the only solution
to make some kind of voting for the
best gallery. However, this works and it will be a lot of work. Yeah, Johannes, I think I actually
love the ordinals wallet solution of a GitHub repo because you just make pull requests. Like you
make your changes and you make a pull request. To me, that feels like the best kind of
option here. You would just make a pull request saying like,
you know, first of all, it's like you can go back and look
at all the changes. So it's really nice for like, you go to
magic, you can say p i. It's like, I have no idea that, you
know, some founder just removed a bunch of pieces or not, you
don't get any insight into that. But if you put it, uh, if you
put it in a gallery, and you like an official gallery that you see in GitHub listed,
you just list the hash inside of GitHub,
and there's a giant list of hashes and probably galleries.
So what's the current thinking on the attributes?
I wasn't quite clear on metadata and attributes,
how this addresses that.
Do you know anything about that?
Not exactly what you're talking about,
but I just wanted to add that we already
had so many galleries on GitHub.
And in the end, everybody gave up.
It's at least stagnating, because honestly, a lot of people
are not able to upload better JSON.
It's painful to see all the pull requests and how much work the maintainers have just
to format the JSON and to point to obvious errors.
So GitHub was a nice start, but it's obviously not working or not scaling at all.
Yeah, so it's not that GitHub doesn't work.
It's that, you know, Ordinal's wallet didn't want to maintain it anymore.
Like that's basically it's it's probably even more work with
Magic Eden does quite honestly,
because at least the Ordinal's wallet,
you know, everybody's doing a bunch of the heavy lifting for you,
and then you just have to accept the pull request like that,
accept the pull request.
And you know,
we would need a better situation maintaining a repo like that.
And it would, I think it would be,
I don't know.
You still have to review every single gallery and like,
I think you have to take pretty seriously adding the gallery.
It has to be the correct situation.
So you'd have to vet the correct number of inscriptions.
You probably want confirmation.
You probably want to talk to the project founder for the top 100 projects.
You can do it. It's a lot of work.
It's just a lot of work. Yeah. It's a lot of work. It's just a lot of work. Yeah, it's
a lot of work. Query, curious for thoughts here, obviously the founder of Magistat, which
lists many ordinal collections. How you think about this?
Well, I think the biggest issue with provenance is that older grade collections don't have it. And even collections that got created after parent-child
don't necessarily have a provenance
and parent-child out of comfort
because it wasn't necessary for trading them.
But I believe that if we want to solve this situation anytime in the future,
we have to pretty much force a sort of provenance for existing collections as well.
And to better understand what I'm referring to,
you can reference CryptoPunks, for example,
that were created before the NFT standard on Ethereum,
and they had a different sort of smart contract.
And because of that, it was basically impractical
to sell them on an ordinary marketplace,
excepting ERC 721. So what was done is somebody created a new contract and you could wrap your own
CryptoPunk and obtain the new standard. Now I believe that if we really want to
force provenance onto Bitcoin collections, we have to do something
like that. And the biggest concern when you're thinking of like wrapping all their collections
is those collections losing their inscription number because probably nobody would like to wrap a node monk and get
inscription number 80 million something because node monks are like under 100k and that's a
valuable thing so i think the best idea would be to create some sort of delegate
best idea would be to create some sort of delegate inscriptions that can burn the old
inscription and get their inscription number basically.
I think that would incentivize people to burn the old node monk, get the new inscription which is essentially a delegate to the real node
monk which is now burned and that inscription can keep the inscription number and have a
parent child.
I would attempt to go for something like that because otherwise nobody will probably adopt or care about provenance
that much.
And yeah, it's a very hard thing to do otherwise.
But now hang on, hang on, who decides which nodebunky gets to be in that collection?
You're saying like the founder?
I would, yeah, yeah, that's a tough one. And how do you know who the founder I Would yeah, yeah
And how do you know who the founder is it's like, you know, a lot of these wallets don't exist anymore
I mean, I think for for older greater collection
People who create this service of
service of offering these delegates can like form sort of a council to agree
what's the official collection from the past which isn't perfect but at least
you have the mechanism to have collections with provenance and go
forward with parent and child forced by marketplaces.
Right, and the parent-child would just be, you're the owner of the inscription would
be required to do it basically, correct?
Yes.
Explain how it would actually work.
It's like if it requires opt-in of the person who holds it, I guess my concern is that,
you know, okay, you got 9,000 node monkey soldiers, but the other thousand aren't gonna do whatever
So then you don't really get a complete node monkeys collection
Yeah, that's correct. So the way I would do it is let's say somebody offers this service and
That team has like the
Agreement that this is a D Jason with all the node monks and so on and
node monks holders can go and solicit this delegate inscription that would
basically get the inscription number from the original one. Then these people can create this inscription,
give it to the owner which burns the old inscription.
That's pretty much how I imagine
a solid base for this service could work.
Obviously, there are a lot of tweaks and gimmicks to work.
It's an interesting idea, Query.
It's an interesting idea.
I think, yeah, to me,
once you have to have a centralized person set
which 10,000 Node Monkeys can be migrated,
you might as well not even migrate them.
That's basically my pushback.
It's like we've already missed the boat on it.
It's like Node Monkeys missed the boat on it's like, you know,
node monkeys was created almost two years ago, right or no,
probably over two years ago.
So it's like the.
The the ships kind of sailed a little bit like yes, we can have
like the independent holders collectively upgrade but you
that you still have to come to some on-chain
consensus of what the node monkeys are and.
Yeah, like somebody has to decide at the end of the day
like these 10,000 are in a group and are able to migrate otherwise.
I'm going to migrate my new node monkey picture, you know that
I just inscribed to this collection, right?
So it doesn't get past like you have to somehow off-chain.
Yeah, you have to off-chain come to some sort of situation that's basically what galleries is right so you
end up kind of going in a circle I don't know that's I mean I don't think anyone
has like that much of a confusion of what node monks are in the Node Monks collections right now. Of course, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
I do hear you.
I do hear you.
But for a lot of these collections,
I would say it's like probably a quarter of collections.
There is some weird ass edge case where the founders have been
like adding and removing or they miss inscribed when they're
inscribing or they, you know, inscribe some test ones right before.
That's probably about a quarter collection.
So I think you're right.
Node Monkeys doesn't have that.
It was a clean shot 10,000.
But a lot of these are like spread out over millions,
tens of millions of inscriptions.
It's just not obvious.
It's not as obvious for a lot of these collections.
So like I could easily see again taking Providence super seriously.
Let's say I'm going to make my full-time job being like the
arbiter of truth on this man.
I mean you're going to have a hard time sitting there unless
you have the actual founder telling me, you know, what exactly
it is and I'm sure I'm talking to the founder.
I'm gonna have a really hard time believing that like I really
a hundred percent gun to my head have the exact collection and
didn't exist and didn't you know pick something that's wrong or something
like this, right?
It's not for about a quarter of them.
I think it's pretty tricky.
I think it's like pretty it's pretty hard.
It's pretty hard for a lot of them.
I agree.
It's good people kind of did them together and it's like you just
looked at the first 10,000 that look like that and then you know,
put them together and that's it is what it is.
But um, yeah, it's more that quarter quarter that's the hard ones that I'm like,
I just don't like I literally don't know the that's why I'm saying it's interesting.
Casey has a decentralized approach of galleries, which is like anybody creates
anything, which at least, you know, it's an approach.
Yeah, I mean, I agree.
I agree with you is going to be like a very tough process to get all these people to agree which collection is which, especially when it comes to smaller collections which have this kind of disputes and stuff like that.
So yeah, I do agree. multiple sources of truth. So you pretty much end up with the same dilemma eventually, like one side of the community
saying that this is the original collection and we made the gallery for it and the other
side saying, but no way, this is the original and they made the gallery for it.
And you know, it's basically the same issue.
True.
And also, you know, we act like relying on the founders a
good thing. I mean to be relying on the founders a terrible
thing founders you know what extract money they want to
dilute they want to do all kinds of shit. I mean a lot of
founders are good a lot of founders are shitty it doesn't
like I don't like I'm not yeah I don't you don't you want to be
betting on chain not on the founder and you know
founders, you know, whether they think they're doing good removing pieces from a collection or whether they're
You know just actively trying to extract or dilute or something
Founders aren't always trustworthy either. They're humans like everyone else. So it's like yeah, it's tough
I like your creative thinking though query. It's It's an interesting approach. I definitely had not
thought of that. Apo, I'm curious if you've gotten a
chance to think about galleries.
Hey guys. Hey, hey Leo. Hey, Trevor. For me, I think one of
the things we've been thinking about is, you know, starting
from minting. So let's say how do we solve this problem during
minting, right? And the issue comes when it comes to provenance or parent-child,
whether the creator is willing to give that main artwork as a provenance.
The second thing is also what I agree with what Query mentioned,
there won't be kind of like a
one-size-fits-all solution for classic collections to migrate, but eventually I kind of see we are
heading towards galleries. And one thing I'm super excited about galleries is that when it comes to
creating delegates where, you know, serious serious artists they have serious artwork
and they want to sell it on chain and they also want to have some kind of
provenance right and you sell all these artwork as a delegate and then after
that finally create a gallery out of the main artwork I think that's that's gonna
be a quite interesting take on galleries. And that's something we have been exploring as well.
And in terms of parent-child,
especially when you have an open mint collection,
or one of the experiences we have had is where,
you know, it's painful every single time you have to
generate these JS fonts for people,
for educators and all other services. And I think
galleries is a solution definitely, but ultimately what galleries becomes powerful is with pruners
definitely. So one of the things we are trying to kind of address right now is how do we give that
solution to single art pieces where serious artists can actually, you know,
sell their artwork as a delegate, but at the tail end they can create a gallery and say,
okay, you know, for this particular artwork, all the delegates that were created is part of
this gallery and with the parent-child description. So that's kind of one take and something I'm excited about. Get this just wanted to share that.
Yeah, no, I appreciate that Apple and it is interesting.
Yeah, I mean look if you're creating new collections,
you can definitely do parent child and I definitely think
that's like a solution that exists today.
A lot of these old collections are no weird state
because we basically launched Ordinals without collection
providence.
It's like Casey launched it early and that had some great, there's probably some great benefits
we've received from that, but ultimately we just launched a protocol that wasn't complete and then
you end up in this situation. Yad, go ahead. Well, I want to ask you, Leo, as a historian, so have we actually had some sort of precedent
on other chains maybe of something similar, where let's say something was launched in
an incomplete way and it actually didn't cause any major problems long term?
Would you say that, let's's say if we move on to galleries
or like parent child from now on every single collection that is going to launch, you know,
maybe even like six months ago, since six months ago until forever, we're going to have
parent child, but then there is going to be a bunch of these like collections, let's say
maybe, obviously there's like hundreds, but maybe like dozens that are actually valuable.
Like, does it mean that those collections
that were launched early on will be more valuable?
Like, what do we actually see happening here?
You know, because obviously like,
given the fact that they were early,
even though we didn't have the provenance,
that's also kind of a provenance, no?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's like, it's kind of a cool collectible
feature. You could even argue but yeah, so like in 2017 on a theory and
there weren't you know, there wasn't a standard for an FT. So crypto punks
is just its own contract. Everybody's kind of creating their own contracts.
They're able to do things like metadata and like, you know, indexing of
the collection and stuff but because it's built around a smart contract, it's just inherently super easy.
I can just go like anybody can go to the crypto punks smart contract and just do
the 10,000 crypto punks, right?
And then it's like problem solved.
So yeah, it's aetherium even though it doesn't follow a standard.
It's still like pretty obvious the crypto punks in that contract are the real crypto punks and you can't create, you know,
an extra crypto punk and like trick someone.
It's just not the way it's architected and designed.
It's not like that.
I think Rare Pepe's on counterparty are interesting.
They kind of are probably the most similar.
It's like they, on counterparty,
you basically just launched, you know,
counterparty was meant for fungible tokens,
but then it ends up getting used for like semi-fungible,
you know, art and NFTs, right?
So you launch, you know, all of these rare Pepe,
some get included, some don't.
They actually had a board called the Rare Pepe Scientist
who decided, you know,
what was included in rare Pepe's or not. And it was actually like that group who decided, you know, what was included in rare pet based or not.
And it was actually like that group of people, you know,
would manually approve this rare pet based in this rare pet.
Anybody can create this,
but then they ultimately decide what's in or out.
And then that board, once they put their seal of approval,
people kind of agreed on it and then it's never changed.
So I guess the corollary there would be like,
we're gonna do this one time, huge effort,
rip the bandaid off and basically,
have a board of like five different companies or something,
they all have to agree and they come together
and publish a final set of all like people
can like for six months go create a ton of galleries.
People try to make an effort and then like five companies come together and sign off
on like a highly vetted to take taking it very, very seriously list of here's all the
real corrupt galleries to use and then it just can't change though.
That's the thing.
It's like you're locked like it worked with rare pepe's because
then no more rare pepe's they stopped it.
What's hard about this is theoretically everyone would just use
parent-child and then it would be a gallery of a parent-child.
But of course people aren't going to do that, right?
People are you know for whatever reason because of the way their
inscription service works, whatever they're not using parent-child.
So it's kind of an endless.
It's an endless thing.
So you don't get the resolution like you do.
And I think yeah, at the end of the day, what we had working was good.
We're most of all it was dedicating time to doing this.
I think we need something more like that.
Like even if magic he didn't just you know, like if magic
he didn't just said we're going to use GitHub like I would think
that would be a huge upgrade in transparency and shit,
because it's a lot harder to remove shit from GitHub
without people not knowing that, like, hey, like, you just,
there's no, you can't see, like, I just don't trust the Magic Eden API
because shit's constantly changing.
It's like there's no providence basically, right?
There's no record there.
Johannes, do you have thoughts there?
Yep, I think this is very much comparable
to the cryptic kitties situation
because they were, I would say,
the first real NFTs before this was even at a standard.
And then people wanted to trade the little kitties,
but it was impossible. And then people came up with the little kitties, but it was impossible.
And then people came up with the idea to wrap the cats.
So I think we could technically see and come up with a similar solution.
So let's say somebody is saying,
we will want to make an official collection of that old legacy artwork.
So everybody who wants to get into that new gallery should somehow wrap their original ordinal
into some kind of envelope around it and this one gets into the new gallery and then you have
some kind of official gallery. Everybody who wants to participate gets opt-in into the new gallery and then you have some kind of official gallery.
Everybody who wants to participate gets opt-in into that new gallery and everybody who's not
joining is not in the official gallery and everybody's happy. It's definitely a better
solution than for example just burning the artwork and saying this is new, now the new one.
And I was never a fan of burning because this is a
one way ticket and if it's not working, then it's gone, for
example, people burning their apes for ordinance and then
realizing they don't get any money for this. So I would say,
we should come up with solutions which are complicated, but
should work wrapping the stuff and then there's a new thingy
gets probably in next.
I think it should be something where people decide
to join the new collection by wrapping this up.
But hang on, hang on, hang on.
I know, I wanna hear what Karey has to say,
but like my thought here is like,
you don't get to choose whether you're part
of the collection.
The collection has provenance of itself.
Just because some dumb ass collector isn't gonna join, doesn't mean they get to fuck the entire collection's provenance of itself. Just because some dumb ass collector isn't going to join,
doesn't mean they get to fuck the entire collection's provenance.
A collection is a serious thing.
You got 10,000 of them.
It's 10,000 pieces of art.
And you don't get to decide to screw everyone else over
and have an incomplete collection that's
going to be growing in size.
A lot of collectors are not,
they're not going to do it. They're, they're whatever, right?
It's like, for sure, for sure.
And you can't buy every crypto kitty,
but you can buy some of them. And I would say, let's,
for example, say we, the people sent,
they are very special ordinary to an emblem vault wallet,
transfers to an ordinary, complicated stuff.
But in the end, if enough people are doing it,
joining some kind of new gallery club, whatever.
And if they are the majorities,
then I would say people will accept it
as a new gallery or collection.
Where not everything is inside, of course,
but you can't buy every kit to Kili on the market too.
That's the deal.
Some people will never migrate, but it's instead better than
running or something.
Yeah, but like it's just with crypto kiddies, you know, it's
a crypto kitty like they have they've solved that here.
You don't know if the thing is legit or not, you know, it's
like somebody still has to decide at the end of the day
that that's like where I just get hung up on it.
It's like, what does it ultimately solve?
Query, go ahead.
I think we can put together a set of like
softer rules for what is a collection.
For example, usually you do not inscribe
like 90% of the collection and then wait one week and inscribe
the rest of them randomly from a different address.
So you could picture a set of rules like inscribed from the same address in the same day.
I'm just throwing examples. It's not going to be this
precise rules. But I think one could picture a set of rules that would give a very, very strong
chance of that collection being the original complete collection. And then we can inscribe that on chain,
make it forever and just walk with that.
And if like two,
three percent of the collections get messed up and two,
three percent of people are going to be unhappy,
yeah, that's like it is what it is.
Yeah. Look, it's interesting. I think the galleries approach is
similar to what you guys are saying. It's just it kind of
leaves open the option to if the two or 3% are unhappy, they
can rally together and gain interest around a new gallery.
And it's just like it's a decentralized gallery approach.
I think probably some sort of hybrid can happen where it's
just like we have to have some kind of
maybe more trusted situation that's curating galleries
and managing that.
The reality is somebody has to have incentive to do it
and it probably needs to be just Bitcoin companies
that can afford to do this.
Trevor, curious your thoughts here
as obviously a collection founder.
Yeah, I mean, obviously I think that I do like the query sort of
blasphemous exclamation mark idea to add exclamation mark next to all the collections that
that fucked up, didn't add parent-child provenance because obviously that would
advantage my bags. So yeah, full support of that one. And no, I mean I think
it's interesting. I think, you know, again, for people that don't understand, the whole point
of parent-child provenance is that it allows you to prove that something was
intentional. So basically you have to have the parent inscription
in the same transaction as the new ordinals that are made,
the new inscriptions that are made,
which are called the child inscription.
So they're in part of the same transaction,
which is kind of interesting because,
I mean, like what query,
and I think Leo you're kind of hinting at a little bit is that.
I mean, we can still trace it back to
the same address essentially.
I mean, we could still know, you know,
which which address inscribed all of the pizza ninjas.
We know we have parent child provenance.
We have all the pizza ninjas
linked to one parent inscription,
but you can still check which address inscribed all of them.
Now it could be, depending on the situation,
it could be different addresses.
So like if, for example, we worked with Ordinal's bot
to inscribe the Pizza Ninjas,
if they had some script that essentially changed the address
between each transaction,
maybe it was more efficient way of doing things,
that could be the case. Otherwise, you could kind of trace it back to the
addresses. The problem is that any type of thing like that, tracing things
to an address, requires, my understanding, a separate index. So, like a separate
database structure and table than just tracking
the UTXOs. So it is much more faster and efficient to get the to do parent-child
but I mean I'm curious like if anyone has any thoughts on just building a
separate index with the addresses to be like, OK, this is inscribed by this by this address and then sort of
using that somehow for provenance.
I think it works probably great in three quarters of the cases
and then probably in a quarter.
It's just because it gets weird, you know, like it is kind of
surprising like how often people are going and creating more
inscriptions doing this sort of thing and they're just not
necessarily using the same address. And I definitely know,
you know, if you're using different inscriptions services
and whatnot, and like we're not working maybe professionally
with someone or doing it yourself, it can easily be
multiple addresses doing the inscribing. And yeah, I think
like probably it works well in most cases. But yeah, it's like
that quarter that's it's like the problematic quarter.
That's like, I just, yeah, it's tough.
I think you could probably build the dataset.
Again, if we had a board of people who was
going to really seriously look at this and try
to do as good as we can up to
the current date and put a stamp on it and put that out there.
I think probably you would actually do something like this,
what you're saying, like creating
an index based on, you know, inscription address, then you could pretty easily look and say,
okay, like, you know, here, there was 10,000, you know, Bitcoin frogs created here in this
order and we could do it like this.
And then you could probably just use that.
I think it would work in a lot of the the cases and it would be a good tool to kind of, you
know, sign off on, okay, we believe these are legit because of that.
It would probably be a good tool to use.
That's probably honestly the, it's probably the best piece of on-chain data that you do
have is that creator address.
It's just probably about a quarter of the time it just doesn't end up working, but it
could get you through a bunch of these collections probably. I like it. I mean you could picture
like a lot of less stronger rules like for example you can look at which
inscriptions were involved in PSBDs immediately after the launch. You could look at potentially a lot of other stuff.
You can even look at the history of the off-chain metadata
from the GitHub of Ordinal's wallet.
You could check whatever is in MagicEating today.
You could make like a very tedious process and probably erase that from like three quarters
You could make a very tedious process
to like 98% of collections that would be stamped correctly.
Yeah, I agree.
Look, you would definitely start with like Ordinalist Wall wallet and Magic Eden. I think like Magic Eden, you
would probably just want to go behind the scenes and talk to
them and have them get a list of like the real shit, not the
fake. Because they basically just do filtering of
inscriptions that get removed from the collection. You need
the real behind the scenes what they actually have, like
otherwise, it's kind of pointless, but I'm sure they'd
be happy to help with that.
They have probably the best collection data set today,
and you'd work backwards from probably the data set like that. Trevor?
Yes. One of the things we haven't talked about is that
there's other use cases for galleries potentially.
Again, you can make a gallery for whatever you want.
You could make a gallery for whatever you want. So you could make a gallery for
you know, like
Rare pizza ninjas or you know pizza ninja with crowns or a gallery for spirit pizza ninjas
You know, like there's other ways you could utilize galleries that I think people will also use
and it kind of it kind of feels to me a little bit like bookmarking like maybe like a Pinterest or like a like I mean there's you know he's talking about
like a reddit version of this where people can like all vote for their
favorite or their source of truth which could will be you know again wouldn't be
very civil resistant at the end of the day people could probably probably make the same galleries they want to try to
prove which one is real. Then if you have people competing to spend Bitcoin to prove
which one is real now, we've just created a waste of time for all of us. But I think
it's pretty cool and I think it's not a perfect solution, especially with provenance.
It does seem to help.
I'm curious why we don't really have like, at least, I don't think we have like an export
JSON function in ORD.
You know what I mean?
Like, if there was just like a, if parent childchild problems was really good,
then we would just have export Pizza Ninja's JSON
from parent-child for Pizza Ninja's or for any collection.
I don't even think we have really that feature.
So part of the gallery's thing,
I'm assuming the form it's gonna be JSON,
unless it would be like C-BOR or whatever,
the more efficient form of JSON, unless it would be like Seabor or whatever, the more efficient form of JSON, that that
at least gives us a tool to work with for things.
There's also the potential that there could be the cause of dynamic galleries.
So if you think about this for gaming, like for pizza, for order of pizza pets, for example,
this could apply to other games where you have like, you can put an official gallery? I think on the parent inscription
so you could just like somehow tie an official like
galleries can be made to make like a more official official version of parent-child essentially by combining the two and
Then you could have a dynamic gallery where it's like, okay, well, like only add the subset
of ordinals that are within the parent-child that also have X.
And X could be anything.
X could be the pizza pad is alive or the pizza pad is not alive or the pizza pad is not alive, or the pizza pat is on steroids.
It could be any of these
selectable on-chain characteristics.
You could imagine creating a dynamic gallery
that could evolve over time for on-chain gaming
would be pretty cool.
That's an interesting way to think about it.
Yeah, it's like, this is a tool
that you could use pretty creatively
for other than just like
Yeah, like we all think in our head like the standard. Okay, you have 10k
It's like 10k pfp or 10k art or whatever
But yeah, you could use this for all sorts of things like there's no this is an open sandbox
You can do whatever you want. I
Kind of like the idea of the Pinterest idea. It's kind of badass like
Everybody yeah, everybody can Everybody can vote on their,
hey, maybe here's the 100 coolest inscriptions
and it's from a bunch of different collections or
like this stuff you could do,
which would be fun.
Look, we'll see what happens.
The idea, Casey's made it in such a way it's pretty abstract,
which there's pros and cons to that.
But I think the pros are that we can figure out, it's a tool we'll have to, which there's pros and cons to that. But I think the
pros are that we can kind of figure out, it's like a tool we'll have to figure out what we're going
to do there. Ultimately, it's going to come down to like the community coming together and like
creating a list of like, here's the right galleries, getting the galleries on chain, and then, you know,
curating the correct list of galleries. I think it's going to be easier to do. I don't think this
is going to hurt the situation. I think it can only help if there's
a question of how much it will help.
I do want to move forward here though.
Trevor, I want to quickly go to your,
you call it tributaries or what was?
Yeah, yeah. So I mean,
it's officially called offerings if you search for in the GitHub repo.
But some alternate names that if you look come up with is sacrifices or tributes.
I think this is a really cool feature.
And honestly, I probably would, if we, if like,
we had other stuff to talk about, I would just like,
you know, keep this, this alpha to myself,
since it's like a juicy, pretty badass feature
on order that's coming out.
But basically it'll, it allows you to, it sort of creates like a another index within
the ordnals hierarchy. So basically right now we have parent-child inscriptions
and then we have re-inscriptions which is like you you inscribe another thing
on the same ordinal or the same sat. This adds like a third one for sacrifices or tributes, which is
essentially the idea of burning an inscription or
burning runes at a given point for a
inscription. So it's like, imagine, and obviously these cases for
gaming are like very very obvious for this, but it's like, imagine, obviously these cases for gaming
are like very, very obvious for this,
but it's like, imagine I have an immortal pizza pet,
and then I wanna burn,
like I can actually physically burn pizza ninja rune
to sacrifice or tribute it to that inscription,
and that will allow you to programmatically or dynamically change that inscription. So previously
there was the feature that got merged where it allowed you to combine a rune
and inscription the same UTXO and then recognize that. Now the problem with that
is that it doesn't have it that that approach doesn't have like a sense of
like past and past and future or present.
It only has a sense of present, right? So the runes in the inscription are in the same UTX.
That's how it is in the present. But it doesn't give us a sense of the past. Whereas sacrifices
and tributes allows you to burn those and then provably Get a list of all the sacrifices for that for that inscription. So this is very like
obvious clear use cases for burning tokens to level up inscriptions or have interactions descriptions
you could also have it burn other inscriptions to
influence
Your current inscriptions.
So I think it's pretty sick.
I mean, it literally allows you to combine runes
and ordinals in a way that I think is super compelling
and easier than doing with a smart contract.
And gives runes like utility basically.
It's kind of like putting a quarter
in a gumball machine or something.
It's, I like it.
Yeah, I mean. Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, I'm just thinking of ways
you could create like dynamic collections
because it would all be tied into recur,
or like is the current implementation
kind of tied into recursion basically
where you would trigger something?
Yeah, 100%. But now maybe you can combine with galleries as we're talking about.
If you had dynamic galleries, imagine it's like you have to burn Pups token or something.
And then if you don't burn Pups token, your ordinal is like no longer part of the collection or
Or like no part of longer part of the gallery or something like that
Interesting. Yeah, I kind of like dude gaming is super obvious like why you would want to do this
Yeah, you could have like utility with your in-game currency pretty easily. Um
That's a cool is this thing coming soon or what's the status like have you talked to Casey about it?
Um, no, I just posted the github that it sounded awesome, but um, who came up with it whose idea was this?
I think I think it was like combination of leaf oh and Casey
I think we found out I can't put it first it posted about it and then like they kind of came to it independently
And then leaf was like hey, I had this I posted buzz here
But it's definitely getting a little
bit of traction in the order right now.
So if you if you go to the
GitHub and you search for offerings,
then you can you can post a comment
there and you can you can say whether
you like the name offerings,
sacrifices or tributes the best.
Alright guys, if you want to do care
a lot about the name go make your voice heard.
Okay, so I wanted to quickly talk about agents.
So this was probably like the most exciting thing that at least for myself that Casey was talking about in this interview.
It's basically a way that it's a clever solution. It's like as normal Casey, it's like it's a not super intuitive
thing that you would come up with, but it actually is pretty
powerful. So, you know, obviously, I think we all we're all
on the same page that Bitcoin doesn't have smart contracts.
It's not Turing complete.
It's not you can't just program anything that you want, right?
We've got a kind of Swiss Army knife of tools that we use, and recursion's pretty cool for that.
There's some cool stuff.
But ultimately, if you want to do something like an AMM on Bitcoin L1,
it can prove to be pretty tricky, right?
Basically, agents are a key solution to add that programmability to
create AMM-like things for runes or maybe you're selling a ordinals collection.
There's various things that could be used for.
But it basically, at the end of the day,
an agent, it's just the Ord Hot Wallet.
So Ord is already a wallet that holds your inscriptions
and Bitcoin in runes, right?
And you would just have a pre,
there would be a preset agent that they,
Casey and Raph would basically code into
Horde where it would be like a very basic agent would be like,
I want to sell a bunch of inscriptions.
The cool part about this is like you are doing the rules off chain with the agent.
So you basically set up your your or node and it has a wallet
and maybe you have 10,000 inscriptions in it and you would program
again off chain.
Nothing's getting broadcasted.
No transactions are getting crafted.
You would just say I want to you know, I want to start the agent
program to turn
this orde into an agent that will sell these 10,000 inscriptions you'd feed it
the 10,000 inscriptions inscription IDs and then basically what it is is it's
ultimately a set of rules that says you can send any transaction that you want
to this agent but this agent is gonna filter if it follows a certain set of rules.
If the transaction that you craft for
this agent follows a certain set of rules,
we'll sign the PSPT and broadcast the completed transaction.
So what this practically looks like is,
hey, I want to admit this agents inscription.
It costs 0.01 BTC to mint it, so I'm going to create a PSPT
for 0.01 BTC. I'm going to send it to this agent. The agent is
just off chain. Maybe you you know, y'all. This is Yon's
collection. He spun this up a week ago, which is running in the background on his computer and.
It says OK, you know, Leonidas this random person.
It doesn't really matter who it is, just sent 0.01 BTC PSPT to like purchase this inscription.
Great.
That description has not been purchased yet.
It's the correct amount.
I'm going to sign an automatically sign this transaction,
so it's an automatic transaction signer.
Basically that is just based on you send it transactions.
If the transactions meet the criteria,
it'll sign it.
It turns out this is like super powerful.
If I for example,
since it's 0.001 BTC,
so too little it would just reject the transaction because it didn't follow the rules.
In this way, it's kind of like you're all you're offline, but you feel like you're online.
And that's why it's called agents.
And this sort of plays and I know Casey talked about this sort of like chatter network for trading.
And my issue always with that was you need two people to be online when people are trading runes.
They're not ever going to both be online. It just doesn't make sense. This allows for an
AMM like solution where you have you know basically what would be like a
market maker type person maybe buy up you know maybe they would buy up you know
a hundred K worth of dog and Bitcoin a hundredk worth of you know pups and Bitcoin 100k worth of Mim and Bitcoin and then basically
they could create a few pools and
They would just you know
there would be a pre-programmed like a mm pool like agent and you would just add you know, the
And you would just add the you know the wallet would hold BTC and dog in it.
wallet would hold BTC and dog in it and
And then the agent would basically just allow you to you know send transactions to it of like hey,
I want to buy this much dog at this price and the transaction would either match the price on the curve.
That's like, you know, synthetically being created off chain or it doesn't and then you could sell based on that, right?
So it's pretty clever.
Ultimately Casey kind of agreed like it was a it's like it's going to be pretty
badass for the kind of AMM style user experience and I think it solves a key a
key component of the kind of like dot swap, you know, runes.
There's a couple of different platforms doing it,
but like the dot swap approach,
the issue is if you're a market maker,
you don't wanna send your dog and your Bitcoin
to someone else, like that's a pretty sketchy thing to do.
This basically solves that problem,
like that is specifically the advantage.
It's an advantage for the market makers.
And ultimately, you know, experts, for example, has the swap where they're aggregating, you know, a handful of these kind of like decks like approach AMM style approaches. And the end result of this would be, you know, experts could have way more liquidity that they're tapping into because, you know, market makers are more comfortable holding their own Bitcoin and ruins then sending it to somebody else.
So and it would probably be cheaper and stuff because there's not like the whole liquidity
farming thing quite as much or anything like this just a market maker market making.
They can set a little fee for themselves and yeah I think I think I think it would work
pretty darn pretty darn well.
This isn't you know available today.
It's you know kind of coming soon asterisk,
but yeah, this is exciting.
Trevor, I'm curious your thoughts here.
There's all sorts of all sorts of stuff
you could do with agents,
but those are like super obvious use cases.
Yeah, I mean it kind of.
It kind of feels like almost like a
cliche in some ways where it's like,
you know you could do almost anything
with the agent and just like it. It's like the hot topic, so it's like you know you could do almost anything with an agent and just
like agents like the hot topic so it's like let's just throw an AI agent into ord but you know what
fuck it i like it i mean i like the idea of like um we're already running ord nodes i mean it'd be
cool to do it almost for the sake of it even if it doesn't work because it is kind of a cool
marketing gimmick to get people to like
like think of like how much more you could do with
with Bitcoin and like live transaction signing if you did have an AI agent, I
Mean it definitely opens the the scope of
What you could do
It opens the scope of what you can do like very very widely,
and I think it's a cool gimmick.
It's like I could imagine we would get a bunch of people who
don't care about ordinals to maybe like run a Bitcoin node
who maybe they care about Bitcoin because they would get
to be able to use like an agent and just to mess around with
it. So I think there's some.
I think there's some pull to it if they were able to create something simple.
It's interesting you mentioned the AI thing.
I think Casey actually wasn't thinking of it in AI terms.
I could imagine like agent on steroids would be AI.
So like you could have like,
maybe it's like to mint the correction,
you have to like have the LLM like a joke
that you tell it or something.
You could, you know, attaching an AI to it's like a whole different level.
You're right, that would be pretty nuts.
That'd be pretty dope.
Yeah, it's like you could do an AI enabled or just
a standard algorithmic agent that's meant my collection for me.
Either way, yeah, again,
it's like, hey, we get smart contracts on Ethereum.
What are you going to do? Well, nobody really knows what you're going to do.
You could do whatever the hell you want.
This is basically like that.
You can program literally anything.
It's off-chain, so you can have whatever logic you want,
and then people just send transactions and then you sign them based on a set of rules.
So it's cool.
It's cool. Yann, go ahead.
Yeah, it's super cool. By the way, just really curious because actually,
Casey mentioned this in the podcast. So he mentioned how he has been talking about the
light pools and stuff like that. And so, you know, can you just like explain it further? Because
I do understand that this thing is not live and it's not going to be,
I think Casey even said that it's not going to be in the first version of like
Ored 1.0.
So it's going to take a while.
You know, he kind of like, you know, put it out there as an idea, but then like
the light pools, he has been talking about him for a while.
And from my understanding, like if somebody does it, like the light pools
would work today, right?
Without any changes.
So like, can you like maybe talk about the difference there?
Because why I'm asking this is that like, I know that the dot swap guys, for
instance, they're working on something that is kind of similar, that like you
can actually run your own node and you don't have to send any Bitcoin or Dock to anybody and you can kind of like become like I guess
like self-custodial mark market maker again. I don't think
they're alive with that. Obviously, they're not leveraging
these agents because agents are not live, but there are probably
other ways to do it already today. Leo, have you like spent
some time like looking into? Or is there anything specific
that maybe you have against this approach? Just really curious because I think I was reading the
discussion that you had with Casey and I think it's pretty cool because I know you mentioned AMM
in the first tweet and then he was like, hey guys, chill. This is not going to be an AMM.
But then actually when you go back and forth with him,
like he's like, yeah, it's definitely gonna be useful
to recreate AMM kind of experience.
So yeah, just curious, like, you know,
have you like looked into the other solutions and like,
you know, is there something that like is so bad about them
that like nobody has pursued them yet?
So yeah, I mean, to answer your question,
.swap can ask, ask dot swap could launch this tomorrow
if they want to do there's nothing there's no like protocol specific change that's happening
specifically right like I think what Casey does well is he makes it open source and everybody
kind of trusts it but dot swap could have a fork of order right now that does this right now. I think there is a little bit of a
Okay, you got to trust this issue
You know you got it
Sorry, you got to trust this code and make sure that dot swap
You know has a good logic and somebody can't hack it and steal all the Bitcoin out of your amm or whatever
But yeah, I mean you absolutely can launch this tomorrow and you know, I'd love for somebody to do that
Yeah, I mean, you absolutely can launch this tomorrow.
And I'd love for somebody to do that.
Ultimately, I guess if you're a company,
you're probably not as incentivized as much
to make it open source and stuff like that.
But yeah, you can launch this tomorrow.
There's nothing stopping you.
Agents are, we'd have to get a lightning dev up here
to talk about light pools.
I'm not gonna be able to really speak about that.
But yeah, you could definitely launch,
anybody could create an agent right now.
You would have to go write all the custom code and
like test it and vet it and stuff.
But what Casey's, I think it's exciting is he's creating
a framework of like a set of agents that will be pre-approved,
that then he merges in,
that then everyone can use.
So it's like the reality is most market makers, you know, don't want to have to hire an engineer
to build some full thing or something like this.
Maybe dot swap, you know, builds this or whatever.
But the beauty of what Casey's building is like, you'll just doubt everybody will have
equal access to just download this and run a command line, start agent, AMM pair to these
two coins and then it's done and you know if
if another company wants to make that experience that's awesome I always kind
of have my doubts a little that companies usually do that it's kind of
like is BRC 20 you know is Uniswap is Unisac gonna you know give everybody
equal access to BRC 20 or are they gonna kind of hog it for the first year for
themselves right so that they can you, become a huge company and kind of get locked in with their
wallet and marketplace and stuff.
And of course they take advantage of that for themselves and nobody else really gets
to be part of that.
So ultimately I just like Casey's style of building and that I know the way he'll do
Everybody will have fair access to, you know, open source work with this.
But if somebody wants to come along and try to make
a more privatized version of it or even try to open source,
then I think that would be awesome.
I think it's a step in the right direction.
Guys, if somebody takes Trevor's idea there,
that's a pretty good idea you make
You make an AI agent and you have to you know to mint the collection
You got a you know pass the test or something with it. You got to convince the agent why you should be worthy of minting it
Guys I think that's
Almost the show except I know people will get mad at me if we don't go to the the the
the the like button on on X you actually can like guys if you don't want to hear this if this is a bad idea it's pinned above it's the tweet to the right just go on unlike it on untapped that untapped that art you gotta do it quickly though you gotta do it quickly. routine because I I thought nobody would care but I got 200 likes on my on my
you know engagement post that if I get hundred likes I'm gonna I'm gonna
reveal my morning routine so I'll have to do it Leo you know I'll have to do it
all right let's do it let's now we want the verbal version on the ordinal shell
we want the we want the minute by minute walkthrough y'all we want to know This better be this better be like better than American Psycho
Christian Bale like morning routine by the way
No, like, you know, I I consulted the guy that went viral that good like six hundred million views on Twitter
Did you guys see that by the way like morning routine?
Man like that guy that like made this fucking famous.
Yeah, yeah. We don't we don't all get the fitness feed on our expert account.
Is it is it like is it like the crypto bro cliche or the guys like?
No, man. I mean, I mean, there is a guy, you know, I don't know exactly who he is.
I think he's some like fucking celebrity or ex celebrity, whatever.
And he posted this video of these routines and that thing went ballistic.
That's why all of these crypto influencers are now remaking the routines and his original
video I can, I can actually, I want to watch.
Yeah.
It's 600 million views on Twitter of this morning routine.
It's like, I don't know if it's like the number
one ever, but this is crazy. Just give me one second. I will pin it.
I'm just gonna I'm gonna go out on a limb here and I'm gonna guess that in the odds
morning routine, there's a there's a shake at some point.
I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess there's a shake. I'm gonna guess that there's like a
journaling like a journaling session like a gratitude journal
Okay, okay
There's got to be an ice a cold plunge right a little cold shower cold plunge action guys
You know, it's too man, you know, you're giving me way too much credit, you know, I just do banana on my face
That's all I do. That's my morning routine. Wait, you just said banana on your face is your morning routine
Man like Trevor you definitely didn't see the video, man.
I don't know.
Somehow Yann thinks we're all in his little fitness world on X-Brow.
I don't see this stuff, man.
I just see a bunch of dog hoodies.
I don't see that stuff.
Yann, do you?
Okay, here's what I want the new routine is.
I don't know what your current
routine is with the new routine is you wake up at 430 a.m.
every day.
Okay, you immediately jump out of bed and you go straight to the
mirror and for 30 minutes straight you scream into the mirror
Bongo will not beat me in the next push-up competition.
I will not be Bongo's bitch.
All right.
Let's John we want to hear it.
We want to hear it.
I want to hear I want to hear the routine.
No, man.
I'm going to make a video.
I cannot spoil it man.
Oh my God video of my morning routine.
So I got all these people excited.
We have 235 people tuning in the worldnil Show just to hear this routine.
We're not even gonna get it. Man, they're gonna get it. They're gonna get it soon. I'm gonna make a video.
I'm already preparing for it. I'm ordering extra supplies, you know, in case one take doesn't work out, you know, and
you know, you guys are gonna see it. It's gonna happen this week, man.
You know, I didn't expect that there's going to be such a demand for it.
So I was kind of it threw me off a little bit, you know, but you know, I
just got back home actually because I was traveling.
So today I just arrived home.
So, you know, I'm back to my routine this week and I'm going to film it, man.
I'm going to fucking film it.
Okay, I found it 681 million views I'm gonna play it
Okay.
I found it.
681 million views.
I'm going to play it.
This guy
Like I serious that you are the only person with Trevor on eggs
Then there is not even 600 million people on
Face he brushes his teeth. He's doing some like acne thing on his nose
He drinks some fresh water. He swirls it around. He goes out on his porch. He's drinking like a bottle of water
He does like 20 push-ups. It's now 417 a.m. He gets into his like nicer economic chair. Oh, yep
Trevor he's got the journal out. He's got the journal out
He's now looking at his phone on a little stand and the fancy stand that he bought.
He's dumping his water into a cold.
He's doing a fish. He's taking his face on a bowl of ice water.
It's now six oh two.
I don't know what happened for those two hours.
I don't know what he did for two hours.
He's going over. He's got his little fanny pack.
He looks like he's heading to the gym.
Yon.
Yep.
He's at the gym.
He is at the gym.
He is running on a treadmill 731.
Now he's leaving the gym.
He's taking his shoes off.
He dives into the pool.
It looks like he's going for a swim.
Did a big head first dive.
I know you do that every morning.
Yon.
Okay.
He had an assistant bring him a paper towel. He's not washing his hair in the shower.
It's 8.35 a.m.
He's eating a banana.
Oh, my God, he's putting a banana on his face.
He sticks his head in the cold water again.
He's now talking into a fancy mic on his laptop.
He's cooking bacon and eggs.
I think it's almost over.
He's got avocado, toast, bacon, and eggs that his assistant just cooked for him.
He's smearing honey on it, I think was that honey at the end there.
Man, I don't know what it is. But you know the number one lesson from all of these guys if this thing can get 600 million views on X like, you know, we definitely can do better in crypto. We also have a lot of retarded things going on here.
So let's do better guys.
Okay, we need to take over Twitter.
We need to take over X in a better way.
You know, if these kinds of routines get 600 million views,
we got to do better.
Can you have check in the dog price in your morning routine?
Yeah, of course, man.
That's what I do the first moment when I wake up,
you know before I even leave my bedroom.
I wanted to make sure. Yeah, it's there man. I checked the price. You know, it do the first moment when I wake up, you know before I
Yeah, it's there man I checked the price, you know, it's the first thing I I know that Huberman doesn't recommend it You know when you wake up the first thing you do check your phone
But you know, I I just got to do it man. Hang on. I got a new one. I'm adding Trevor
I remember I remember I forgot that John's big into the sleep stuff the sleep cycle stuff
So I'll bet you there's a section where Yon looks out to the sunlight
It when he wakes up. I'm pretty sure that's one. I'm pretty sure that's gonna be one
Did I just want to see like a morning routine that's like eight hours long
You know what I mean? Like real like self-care like, you know get after it
Like how to be successful is like an eight hour morning. This guy had a five hour morning routine. I mean that's pretty, that's a pretty long ass morning routine.
I mean that's, that's yeah, five hours is a lot. I mean after, you guys, you guys don't even go to
bed until 4 a.m in the morning, you know, like you know, that's, I don't know man, like your morning
routine is that you're in front of the computer under 4 a.m. Leo and Trevor. My morning routine is I like roll over to bed and pick up my phone and start the ordinal show bro.
I want to see evening routines. I don't want to see morning routines. You know what I'm saying?
Like I feel like first five hours of the day like that's when I get the best most important work done
and if I started my day after five hours dude dude, it would be, I mean, I'm just doing meetings pretty much rather than like the real deep creative work, right? That you need to do.
That's important. I think so. Like I would love to see like people's got to be fast-paced like this guy.
This guy built this thing for the tick-tock generation.
It's like one second clips.
It's like one second, one second, one second.
You got it.
You got to make it super super fast.
You know, people don't want to sit you.
People don't want to sit there and watch, you know, some slow thing for like 10 seconds
as you jog on a treadmill.
This guy's on a treadmill for half a second.
Yon and then all of a sudden at 735. That's going to be critical. I
also like Trevor. I mean, look, man, maybe we see a Trevor evening routine. We see maybe
the Trevor evening wind down, the hard work's over, the evening wind down of an Orr influencer.
Man, is there actually a wind down for people like us? I think it doesn't exist.
Absolutely, bro.
I absolutely wind down before bed.
Yeah, man.
You do that?
That's like the flux routine on your computer, right?
That you like dim it down a little bit, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So I actually have flux on all day.
So like my screens are red.
If you see my screens, they're red.
I actually famously got in a debate with someone at one of my prior jobs about the color of a little button. And I
was wrong, it turned out. We were both seeing a button on our screen. I thought it was green,
they thought it was blue. It turned out my screen was just red. So then, you know, imagine, imagine like a front end engineer or full stack engineer
that's like, you know, his screen is red. Yeah, I love I
don't like blue light from the screens. I like the red light.
So I have, I have glasses that are blue light removing, I have
a computer screen that's blue light removing I have flux and
I have the Apple default night shift on so all four of those
layers and I'm not really good, but you don't have it the whole
day, no no no all day all day. That's the morning routine.
That's the afternoon. Oh shit man, it's all it's red all day
long. Do you actually like leave your apartment ever?
You know like get some sunlight, you know
I got some sunlight yesterday
What I'm a high it's good. That's good. That's good. That's that's definitely necessary brother
Yeah, but look I think winding down for the evening like an hour before you go to bed. I think it's important
Bluck man, I'll agree. I'm probably on to bed, I think it's important. I plucked man, I'll agree I'm probably on,
I don't have the best routine ever,
so I'm probably not good to speak for this,
but I think like on a good night winding down
before bed is a good thing,
candle, listening to some music, lower the lights,
like just chilling for a little bit, maybe take a bath.
So I'm like reading some fantasy novels
and drinking wine basically? Basically basically just yeah like having kind of
evening vibes you know you just definitely no show with you guys it's
midnight here so that's my winding down you know so you're winding down is the Ordinal Show.
Interesting. Exactly.
I mean look, late night Twitter space, it's kind of crappy right now.
Like I don't there's not really any like, I don't know.
Usually there would be like a ton of Twitter spaces.
You go join and like hang out with people.
There isn't shit anymore.
Like there are like there's just not many Twitter spaces.
I'll look I'll look it'll be like midnight and there'll be like,
you know, a Chinese Twitter space with like 142 people on it
is the top Twitter space.
Like where the hell did everyone go, you know?
But yeah, sometimes winding down with a Twitter space
can be good.
I just think in general, getting off screens
is probably like the main takeaway.
Getting off screens, the screens an hour before bed,
I think is definitely
good not just because of the light yawn but just because of I think like your
brain is like it's hard man yeah it's hard for me man you got yawned
ready just put it in do you have is your phone and do not disturb it is but you
know I just I'm just glued to it all the fucking time, you know
I mean morning is the only time when I get some time that I actually follow some routine, you know, meaning that
You know, I focus not only on like exercise and stuff sometimes but like, you know food and like, you know nutrition
like, you know
I really tried to nail it early in the morning because I know that like I can control the time. And
then the rest of the day is just like, I just go with the flow, man. Like whatever happens,
happens. It's just like, you know, I really like the idea that Brian Johnson is pushing
like all this stuff that yeah, you have like certain morning routine and you wind down. The Brian Johnson is the billionaire guy.
Yeah, I mean, and he's basically speaking about all these things and he's not the only one,
right? So like, you know, he's getting the credit now because he's like the whole thing
that everybody discusses him right now. But like, all these guys, Uberman and like others,
they talk about the same stuff, right? And so it's like, it's very much tried and true that like,
yeah, you should definitely do this.
It's just like, I don't know.
I think it's very unrealistic, you know,
unless it's your number one priority, you know?
If like health and like good sleep and everything
is your number one priority above everything,
it's just like impossible to
do that in my view.
Because I try a lot, I invest quite a lot of energy and time and everything into having
some sort of morning routine, eating healthy, exercising regularly and doing these things.
So I think I do a lot of things right already,
but I'm spending quite a lot of effort on it
because to me it's maybe not the number one priority
above everything, but it's like really, really, really
on top of the list, you know?
Or close to the top of the list.
But unless you make it like really the number one thing,
like I think it's impossible because there's always some shit that happens like always a call that you need to take always something else like and I don't even have kids right now but like imagine you have kids.
You know like like forget about any kind of routines and like like plant stuff like every single day to an hour, right? It's just impossible.
So I think the reality is like, you know,
real life is not a meme on the internet, right?
It's raw, it's not perfect,
and you just do the best that you can, right?
So it's like, yeah, obviously there's trade-offs
and compromise, I think.
You can like go down these rabbit holes,
you know, and of like going to,
I definitely tend to be like this,
where I'll be in an extreme in one direction
or the other usually.
But you can go down rabbit holes of like, you know,
everything has cancer in it.
You'll basically discover that everything causes cancer.
And it's like, okay, like you can't have a gas stove,
don't cook on a grill because it charged the meat like all this kind of stuff.
There's like a thousand things that cause cancer and the reality is like just live your life for the most part.
And there are some things like maybe we all stop drinking out of plastic bottles in 10 years, like probably plastic is somewhat on the way out for food stuff. But I mean, in the meantime, the, the risk reward is like, if I, you know, get
plastic in my balls because I drank out of a water bottle, because that's what
you do in 2025, it's like, you know, so be it.
I die of plastic balls, right?
It's like you lived your life.
You know, you can strike sounds or say it
again Trevor. Sounds horrifying dude. I mean look it's a very very small risk
that you're taking and I don't know we'll see we'll see but I think like the big
thing it's like a spectrum there's like you know let's say there's a list of a
hundred things in order of like things you should do to improve your health
focus on like the top five things I think what some people do is they'll have like absolute garbage sleep and
then they'll focus on like the 90 second best thing which is like cancer in your ball or like
Plastic in your balls right from drinking
plastic bottles
Probably you could just you know get an hour extra sleep every
night and have a slightly better routine for sleep and then that's like the
equivalent of doing like 80 through 100 and 80 through 100 by the way take a
ton of time and work to do so it's like yeah it's always this balance of like
what's the return like you put in a certain amount of work what's the
return on it I would much rather you, like the big things like you said, kind of like diet, sleep exercise.
Just optimizing those like for example, I think probably some people do these like red lights in their like there's obviously a whole buyer hacker community that drives the way of y'all.
the Travis, the way I've gone. People will do these like red lights that are supposed to like be really good for you.
But the reality is like, do you really want to spend a bunch of your like precious time in your day like looking at a red light?
Probably not. So I think there's like a line of how much time you're going to spend on this kind of stuff and just try to be in general,
try to eat healthy, try to get good sleep, try to exercise a few times a week, right? That's
probably better than most people are doing. So yeah, john left us.
He had to go create his video. But Trevor, I think we're
probably gonna wrap your man. Hopefully, let's check we did a
man. I think we detailed the ons extensive our morning routine.
And so guys, just remember, I mean, if
your bags aren't going up, it's because your morning routine is not long enough. I mean, if Bitcoin is stuck at 80k, it
means that you need to up your morning routine from, you know,
zero to as close to eight hours as you can, because an eight
hour morning routine, like I don't even start work until
until after eight hours until I complete my full morning routine then I
start work and that's been the secret to my success all these years is an eight
hour morning routine so you know just uh next time you're wondering why the price
isn't going up check out check look no further than your own you know your own
self-improvement Trevor you just skip the afternoon routine. You just do it's all morning routine. And then there
is no afternoon and then it's morning routine straight to evening wind down. You skip the middle
step. I like it. I like it. Yann, I want to know, I want a little teaser. Have you ever done the
bucket of, have you ever done the bowl of ice cubes and dunk your face in it be honest.
No never man.
I mean, I just kind of feel it's pointless to be honest like
I don't understand like what's the science behind it if there
is even any science.
I just do it right now.
I've never done it.
Should I go do it?
Yeah, do it bro and tell me how we feel it.
I'm going to do it and then we're going to show.
Okay, you do it do it do it do it and tell me how you feel. I'm gonna do it and then we're gonna end the show. Okay, yeah, do it, do it, do it, do it.
And tell me how you feel, man, because I would actually,
like just instead I would just do a cold shower.
I just feel like it's much more, you know,
than going, holy fuck, he's really doing it.
But man, you need to make sure
that you have a mineral sparkling water or whatever the
fuck it is.
Yeah, I don't have the mineral water, but we got we got normal water.
All right, and we're gonna make some ice cubes.
Stick it in here.
What is the idea?
It's way too bad.
I was gonna say, by the way, if you're in in the audience like fall along with us, you know
Go get a bowl of water put some ice cubes in it. We can do this is a you know, rich
Did you bongo already did it Leo bongo already did it this morning?
Did he actually do it? Yeah, he fucking recording himself. So he did it. He did the face dunking
Yes, let me fire. Let me fuck. Let me fire this tweet. Let me get some ice cubes
I'm telling you man
Like now that brand of the water, you know, they will they will have they're gonna be sold out internationally.
Come back to me in like 30 seconds.
Sounds good. I'm enjoying the sounds of you making some ice cubes.
Yeah, make sure you keep the microphone up close to the ice maker too.
It's very realistic.
This is this is as realistic as it gets guys.
This is like ice cube morning routine ASMR.
All right, we're dumping in the water guys.
The mic is all closed.
Was that good ASMR there?
Is that good content?
Yeah, this is the best content we've had on the show, I think, to date.
Exactly, man. Like, the imagination that is going through my head right now, you know, what is actually happening there.
You don't even want to know.
Leonid has disappeared, man. Like like he's gone.
Have you guys ever thought about a fridge it's like it's pooping and peeing?
The ice cubes are the poop and then the water is the pee.
Oh my god, we are, yeah guys, we're reaching new levels on the show today.
Do I have an ice cold bucket of water?
Yep, it's pretty cold. How do you feel? How do you feel? I haven't done it yet. levels on the show today. I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm gonna go ahead and do it.? How long did Bongo do it for? And I've been it.
It's like, he did it for like one second, bro.
Okay, I'll beat Bongo.
I'll do it for five seconds.
All right, I'm doing it.
That's interesting.
I think that was only three and a half seconds.
No, that felt like five seconds.
When I was in there, it felt like five seconds. It might have been actually three, but it felt like five
Okay, so what the idea is you feel awake I
Guess because he did it at 4 a.m. In the morning like for what other reason he would do it
So why does he have to have that special water to do it? I don't know probably better for your skin, man
I don't know but before you film your routine you need to go buy that water,
you know, man.
I don't have access.
I already I already tried man.
I don't have access.
We don't do that kind of bullshit here.
You need to send a courier.
Where do you buy it America?
I guess I guess it's only in the US.
I've never seen it in Asia.
I've never seen this bottle of water in Asia.
It looked it actually looked like European water. Yeah, it could be. I've never seen it in Asia. I've never seen this bottle of water in Asia.
It looked it actually looked like European water.
Yeah, it could be but I've never seen it in Asia. I think it's already sold out man.
It's gonna be like have you guys drinking the water in Europe?
It's nasty.
They like reuse the bottles.
What do you mean?
It's disgusting.
They like reuse the bottle.
You'll like get a body.
You like buy a bottle of water in the grocery store and it's like clean that last bottle. You'll like get a bottle. You'll like buy a bottle of bottled water in the grocery store.
And it's like a glass bottle. And it's like someone else already used it.
Yeah, but they know. I feel offended. I feel very offended.
This is great water here.
I mean, so just to be clear, the actual water is good.
The issue is the bottling. You guys like reuse the glass bottles.
But you know that they clean it, right? You know that they clean it.
Yeah, they did a terrible job. They don't clean it very well. How do you know? they clean it right you know that they yeah, they did a terrible job
They don't clean it. No
Muches in it dude. It's clearly not a new bottle. It's like absolutely not a new bottle, bro Oh my god this guy this guy man. Did you get did you feel like lipstick on it or something like well, bro? I I
Don't know if you guys have noticed but like when you're traveling in Europe and you go like man
Where did you go in Europe? I would be very curious
Water they scam you in Europe with the water sometimes they'll like sell you a 10 euro water when you go to these restaurants
And they'll like come out and they'll they're just refilling a bottle of tap water back there and they like yeah
We're talking about mineral water man
Say it again we're talking about different things man we're talking about mineral
water that's what I'm talking about the glass bottle mineral water no way and
where did you go where the fuck dude in Europe they reuse the bottles I mean I
know they use them but they they send them back to the factory and
they clean them up man.
Yeah.
How well do we even think there's somebody manually cleaning all of them?
It's like in a man.
It's a man.
It's like man.
I I took well, it's the same for beer man.
You have a glass bottles for beer and I used to work in that fucking factory.
You know, I did like a part time
job when I was in high school in a brewery, like the number one brewery in Czech Republic.
They fucking take the glasses in and they clean them. They have machines for that shit.
Don't worry, man. Nobody's doing it by hand. Nobody's spitting in your glass.
And are you in the water again, Leo? Okay, so I looked it up. In the U.S. beer bottles, they crush it down. They like, every time you drink the bottle,
they like crush it into like new glass and they remelt a whole bottle.
Bro, that's what, that's what I like, dude. That's what I like. Oh my god.
I'm just telling you guys, it's not a sanitary. It's not a sanitary. Hell like, dude. That's what I like. Oh my god. I'm just telling you guys. It's not a sanitary
It's not a stand. Oh, yeah, dude. You got a you got a like my drink from
Not a senator. I will tell you hey like Leo. It's not a sanitary but you know, it's good for immunity man
It's good for immunity. I you know, I I think you know, I'm good, you know, I have only had covid once
I hear about people in the US they have at covid ten think, you know, I'm good. You know, I have only had COVID once. I hear about people in the US, they have had COVID 10 times, you know,
so I guess the immunity is stronger in the US.
The US is actually very, very sanitary.
We have something called incinerator toilets.
It's the new, new fad.
It's the, it's the absolutely most sanitary toilet.
You poop and pee in the toilet and then it lights it all on fire, basically.
That's what we do now.
I'm serious I I cannot take this seriously bro look I'm just telling you it's a
thing you do on it I'm gonna I'm gonna ask broke I'm gonna go on why is Joe
honest you're from Germany correct yes why do you guys why do you guys give me these filthy bottles of water that other people already drink out
Yeah, this is a cultural thing.
I heard that in America people sometimes don't do the dishes and prefer to use paper dishes
and just water it.
I use bamboo plates and bamboo forks bro, I got a system down.
Yeah, but you can clean it, you know?
And of course, you don't waste so much energy
by belting the glass and making new bottles out of it.
Of course, you can just take the perfect bottle,
clean it and put nice water into it.
And it's much more healthier than having plastic bottles.
So if you are wealthy,
and if you want to have that extra luxury water, you get bottled water
made of glass with pure water in it. Then you can feel rich here. That's the way to drink water.
Or you can get it just from the water system because every water here in Germany is drinkable
and it's not full of clore. It tastes great. So, um, you have to enjoy this.
Where does the German water come from?
Does it come from like the Alps?
From, from, from, from the ground filtered or, uh, from big seas where you
don't, we're not allowed to, to, uh, pollute it, but it's always filtered
and has a lot of checks and what's really great. In America if you drink water
from the water system it's just chlorine and even if you have these ice cubes they are
full of chlorine. I can't take it. German water is the same.
Yeah, maybe also Johan is there's places in the US out west where there's a water shortage
where they actually just reuse the sewage water. It's like the sewage water is the drinking water.
It's kind of nasty. That's why we need the chlorine.
Have you guys toured a sewage plant?
They don't do that good of a job.
They let it sit in this big-ass pool with some UV lights for like a week,
and then it's apparently clean. I would not drink that water dude.
Man, but like jokes aside, I actually installed like water filters at home like a couple months ago
and it's fucking amazing.
So I have like two water filters, everything, you know, getting rid of all the microplastics and bacteria and everything, plus even adding the minerals back into the water
before I drink it. So I think it's dope, man. I think it's fucking great. And now
I only want to drink water from home. I don't want to drink water from
anywhere else. You know,
it actually adds the minerals in. So it's
yeah, I mean, again, is it perfect? Is it perfect? I don't
know. I don't think so. I don't think it's as perfect as it is natural. Like let's say it's in
the Alps or like super clean like from a forest whatever like you know I don't know. Of course
it's not going to be that amazing but like on one hand it it filters everything, which means it filters all the minerals
that are in the water, but also all the bacteria,
all the different things, microplastics.
And then, you know, in the last stage of the filtration,
there is basically adding the minerals in, you know.
So I don't know, is it perfect?
Probably not, but like it tastes amazing.
You know, the water tastes, you know,
you can taste the difference. Like if I
go and drink water from somewhere else, and then drink it at home,
I can I can taste the difference. So it's it's great.
And yeah, I mean, I mean, it's just, I think it's a great
investment. It's not even that expensive. It's like 1000 bucks,
you can invest 1000 bucks or thousand bucks maximum into this system and have it at home. And I don't buy any plastic bottles anymore,
nothing. Just carrying my water bottle everywhere. So it's awesome. I would recommend it.
I think people, Jan, people don't actually believe that water can taste different.
I've never understood that. Water is not just H2O, it's a ton of minerals.
Like if you actually just drink reverse osmosis H2O,
like just to element H2O or whatever, right?
Tastes terrible.
But if you drink water, minerals, it's like a recipe.
Every water is a recipe, it tastes like minerals
and it changes the taste a ton. I had a
doubt that I could taste the difference between water. I did a wine
taste test. I mean it is actually definitely a thing. You're
drinking minerals. Man, it's the thing man. I've traveled all over
Asia and I even tried different types of mineral waters. You know, like
some in China, some in Indonesia, somewhere else and like
You can tell a difference between Evian and Perrier and some other mineral waters that you buy in Asia
Like hundred percent you can tell the difference man. Sometimes like you don't even want to fucking drink it because it tastes awful
Yeah, it's definitely a real thing I think we probably should wrap the show here. It's been a good show guys.
You can tell we're talking about, you know, Evian versus Pierre.
So bitcoins up a little bit.
I guess maybe we'll go back to I saw 88k.
If it's in the 70k, we only drink tap water, Yann.
But we're in the 80s.
We're in the upper 80s.
Let's go.
Let's get it
all right guys have a great day everybody guys have a great start to
your week we'll see you on Wednesday night yeah don't don't feel don't get
too down here guys we got we got good things coming we don't know how where's
gonna come from but we know it's coming so hope you guys have a great start to
your week and we'll see on Wednesday night big morning routine video dropping soon by yawn. We'll see y'all Wednesday. Peace
