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The Ordinal Show
Recorded: June 4, 2025 Duration: 2:44:43Space Recording
Short Summary
In a lively discussion, participants explored the latest trends in the crypto space, including the launch of Casey's Fun collection, the anticipated IPO of Circle, and the growing interest in meme coins. The conversation highlighted the importance of community support and strategic partnerships in driving growth, as well as the need for innovative solutions to enhance liquidity and user engagement in the evolving landscape of Bitcoin and DeFi.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Thank you. Music Thank you. All right, we're going to kick things off here.
Welcome to the Ordinal Show, everyone.
Happy Wednesday.
We hope everyone's been having
a wonderful week. I'm joined here with my co-host, Jan. Jan, nobody knows how to pronounce
his name, but we're going to kick the show off here. I thought it was kind of neat. Casey's
collection called Fun that he kind of did in a collaboration, I think, with one of his friends in San Francisco.
They basically just auctioned off the first piece of the collection, which is this kind of like crazy looking photo of Casey.
And it went for 0.15 BTC. So kind of cool to see. Cool to see, you know know a kind of nicely sized sale there I would say
and then there's just been a couple more ordinal collections recently I would say maybe businessman
if you want to come up and talk about it you're way more in the trenches on the ordinal side than
I am or somebody who's more familiar but I see there's a few collections showing up on Magic Eden
they're kind of newer IP newer projects newer mints that seem to be getting some attention.
And, you know, it was pretty dead for a while.
Like we had some very big collections mint.
But it was more just like more of kind of existing collections minting.
This is a little bit of a newer thing, but I'm also not an expert on the Ordinal's Trenches, really, for the really new stuff.
So if anybody wants to
come up and shout out any of the new projects that minted recently I know
there's a little bit of excitement around there but I can't share too much
on it so we'll just leave that out there if anybody wants to come up and talk
about it please feel free Jan how are you feeling how are things on a I guess
it's Thursday for you right yeah GM it's thursday for you right yeah gm it's
thursday morning for me i have very important question for you leonidas what did you have for
dinner man i'm curious i'm drinking a smoothie right now nice a lot of protein i hope a lot of
protein in it yeah there's like 50 grams of protein okay that's good a lot
of protein that's good that's good that's good but yeah man look uh it's been you know not a
whole lot's happened since monday to be honest on the show like yeah i know yeah mim got a listing
mim got a listing on an exchange which was cool they had already integrated runes and listed them
which is pretty dope so shout out it was like high BC, I think it was the exchange.
And they're like a top 30 exchange in the world.
So great to see kind of some more liquidity flowing there.
And I think it's a, it's a multifaceted approach with runes where it's like, we gotta, we really
gotta have buy buttons for everyone, right?
We've got to have the L1 stuff, which there's a lot of great stuff cooking on the L1.
There's some cool stuff cooking on L2s
and then the like exchange listings I think are a huge way to just onboard new people like we have a
you know we have a little bit of a situation I just kind of get a vibe that there's a little
bit of a PVP vibe a little like just it's a it's a group of you know thousands of us just like fighting each other and you know
fighting for liquidity and stuff like this and i think the centralized exchange listings are a way
to kind of bring new people into the into the space and it like reaches out and grabs people
and brings them in versus just you know us moving liquidity around with each other right so
yeah that's uh that's another cool thing that happened i'm trying
to see here i think the biggest uh yeah well you know i i definitely agree with you i think not
many things happened especially in the bitcoin side to be honest but i think one of the biggest
things that people talk about is the pump.fun token right like that's that's like the biggest
biggest biggest thing that i've seen all
over twitter but you know yeah not not much else to be honest i i think circle ipo right i think
that's kind of crypto related for everybody i don't know what what we what we think about that
you know i i guess it's happening this week or something so so that could i don't know is a good
thing is a bad thing that could bring some attention to crypto in general?
But yeah, I haven't really seen anything else, to be honest.
Like, yeah, it's kind of quiet, you know, beyond a couple of these like big news, obviously, that people just talk about on Twitter.
Yeah, the circle thing is pretty bullish for stable coins because it'll give, basically stable coins suffer from this thing where like, nobody really wants,
like, there is no number go up aspect to a stablecoin, right?
Like, everybody's bullish on stablecoins, but the issue is that they just stay flat.
They're always worth like a dollar, right?
So Circle going public is like the first real time that I'm aware of that like retail can
have exposure to quote unquote stablecoin bullishness,
which is kind of neat.
And then I would imagine if you're Circle, you're probably going to just move into RWAs
and start tokenizing more stuff.
There's obviously stablecoins that I would just consider to be like one version of an
RWA.
And I think that whole category feels like it's trying to explode partially because just the regulatory
environment in the U S is like very friendly around that. And they're just saying, this is
totally cool. And then also there's just like a, with VCs, they kind of get in these frenzies and
they're all like, you're missing out and funding certain things right now, that thing is RWAs and
stable coins. And there will probably be like like, every kind of big crypto exchange in the US will
have this. And there will be quite a few startups bringing these things on chain. And I imagine
Circle probably that's the direction they'll head in as a company, I would guess,
which is pretty exciting. We're going to have stocks and meme stocks on chain pretty soon,
I'm pretty sure. Yeah. And then the pump fun thing.
I don't know.
Like, what are your guys' thoughts on it?
Like, I see some people defending it, some people fighting it.
I personally think that the narrative of they've extracted, you know, they've created a product that charges a fee.
And to me, like, I,
I don't view that as super extractive personally, that it's a simple product.
They charge a percentage based fee similar to most exchanges or things.
But I do, I do get that. Like, it's a lot of money as far as the actual,
you know, token presale, they're basically doing an ICO that I less,
I'm less inclined to endorse or appreciate.
I think it would be way cooler if they did a huge airdrop to their community.
I think Hyperliquid showed this great example of, hey, you want to actually go build a blockchain that matters and people care about and you have a strong community.
You can just literally airdrop 100% of the supply and bootstrap a ton of liquidity and interest based on that model.
And if you actually compare all the blockchains over the past couple of years,
I mean, look at the Barra chains and the Monads and all these other chains and the Blasts, right?
You know, they're not even coming anywhere near, the VC chains are coming nowhere near Hyperliquid's attention.
So I hope at least that PumpFun does, in addition to their huge presale, a huge airdrop to their community.
I think, yeah, Hyperliquid, if you were reluctant to believe that the model of rewarding your users kind of organically, not just farming, is a model to bootstrap a network. Hyperliquid
just made that crystal clear if it wasn't already. So I would hope PumpFun is going to do a pretty
big airdrop too. We will see though. We will see. Anybody? You know, I think what I think,
what I think is, you know, it's pretty clear, right? I think obviously early investors are
going to print a lot of money. You know, I think the users, the heavy users,
they're likely going to get rewarded somehow.
You know, I don't know.
Obviously, I have no idea what they're planning to do,
if there's going to be an airdrop or not.
But like I would say that like, yes, like some,
at least some portion of the users is going to get heavily rewarded.
What I am just kind of, you know,
what is a little bit surprising to me,
it's just like in this environment of Solana meme coins
that they're pretty much dead.
There's not really anything happening, you know,
like raising a billion dollars.
Like, I just don't know.
Like, if it's going to go through, then like,
like, fuck yeah
I guess we're not that you know, I guess maybe meme coins are really still in the prime time
I mean look I I get the criticism and I hear the sentiment like meme coins. No, it's not it's not a criticism
Um, so i'm not saying that like it's too much or this and that i'm just saying like like
I'm just saying like, like it's, it's, it feels the number is so large for the kind of activity that we currently see in the space.
It's it's it feels the number is so large
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, no, I feel you there.
It's like, we're all season has not started.
Right.
But I'll just be completely honest.
Like people say the meme coin is dead thing.
Like it is true that meme coin volume is down a lot and that the total value of all meme coins is basically half of what it was in December at the peak. But we still have
10 meme coins in the top hundred cryptocurrencies. We still have like basically take the meme coins
away from crypto Twitter. Like what the hell are people talking about? You know what I'm saying?
Like what are the thought? Like this lotana people still, their mind share is meme coins, whether there's new ones or not,
or maybe they're just, you know, consolidating around a few big winners, like, you know,
SPX and Fartcoin and stuff. All I see all day is people on Solana talking about meme coins.
They're not talking about literally anything. No, I get you, right? But like, I think in terms
of Pum.fun, it's different, right? Because, you know, know pump.fun was built around printing new meme coins
every day like hundreds of thousands of new meme coins and i think that stuff is not happening right
now obviously you could say that like yes we have some established meme coins but i don't think that
pump.fun benefits in any way that we have some like major meme coins like you know whatever is in solana
what are the top 10 people are not really trading it on pam.fun and pam.fun is not making money from
that right like pam.fun is making money when you're printing new meme coins and there is like a hype
around like tokenizing everything basically and to me like that stuff is kind of dead, at least in the immediate term, maybe it's
going to come back, I guess, probably yes. But just to me, like, like raising in this environment
where like their product is not really that hyped anymore, trying to raise the billion dollars,
if they can do that, again, it's not a criticism that they want to raise that money. Like if they
can, that's good for fucking them. But like, if they can raise this kind of money then i think it's pretty bullish right like i like just you know i
think i think they're gonna raise it i think they're gonna raise it okay and i agree it's
bullish for the space if you can raise money and like go do stuff i do think like pump fun is at
this point it's like pretty clear it's like an ecosystem and they're gonna build their own
blockchain so the vision is not you're investing in like pump funds like kind of v1 product they now are a dex right
they're a dex and a launch pad and they're going to basically build a chain that's probably something
similar to a hyper liquid narrative where it's basically faster than solana and they'll have a
bunch of dgens and a bunch of capital and they're going to basically get to farm the entire thing of like, oh, meme coins on Solana.
You do it on PumpFun.
They're going to rerun the entire thing on a new blockchain the same way you see the meme coins on Avalanche be a thing and the meme coins on Hyperliquid and the meme coins on Baruchain.
They will just get to rerun the whole Solana meme coins as people try to find the billion dollar meme
coin on the pump fund chain. And it will literally be a blockchain for meme coins. That is the only
thing that they will focus on is just basically launching meme coins and being the chain for
meme coins. So I think it's, I think it's an interesting, pretty compelling vision. And,
you know, of the, of the two companies to do the best in this bull run, if you had to ask people, I mean, it's PumpFun and Hyperliquid.
These are the two kind of big winners, big new names that did not exist two years ago that are, you know, multi, you know, basically decabillion dollar type situations now.
And, yeah, I think, you know, to get into one of those two companies, you know, I don't know.
I remember OpenSea raising it like 13 billion.
You know, it's not that crazy.
I think they'll do it.
I think they'll probably do it.
That's interesting.
Yeah, you know, I, again, like, you know, I'm not criticizing.
I think, you know, good for the team.
You know, I think they definitely built a product that a lot of people used.
And, you know, they definitely had a lot of attention for a very long period of time when
we look at it in the crypto terms right so you know good for them good for the early investors
i know i know some people that invested like very early into pump.fun before it even became like
like a big thing so good for them they're gonna print like serious a serious amount
of money uh but yeah man like you know you just mentioned they're gonna build another
fucking chain I don't know like you know I I tried to use the pump.fun product I didn't like
it you know I mean again I'm not necessarily the kind of trencher the dgen that would be like living
in the trenches 24 7 and trying to chase these kinds of meme coins. I don't have time for that, but I just didn't like the product, you know,
like I hope that they take the money,
the billion dollars if they raise it
and actually build like more user-friendly product at least
because if it's just about farming new meta
that there's going to be a couple more meme coins
and like we're going to rerun the avalanche thing
that like I guess that's going to last for six months
and then it's going to be over anyways, you know, know so would be great if they actually build a product that is
going to last and is going to bring some sort of value to the ecosystem overall and not just like
some sort of farming meta of another chain you know that's just like my point of view but again
i i don't understand the solana i honestly agree with that i agree with that i like i think it's
not necessarily it's not good for Solana
that they're leaving. I'm going to suck a lot of the liquidity out of Solana and basically compete
directly with Solana. But you know what it is? I definitely think it's bullish for the meme coin
asset class. And I don't think people think about it like this, but last cycle you had just a
smaller number of meme coins. You can go to Google Trends and search the term, how to buy meme coins, and you'll see that it's been 10 times higher this cycle.
There's no question in my mind that meme coins are basically what NFTs were last cycle.
They are the thing of this cycle. And PumpFun is the largest meme coin brand company.
And basically, for the meme coin asset class to mature, having a billion dollars come in to basically build around the meme coin asset class.
This is bullish for all meme coins.
I know there's a lot of controversial opinions.
I just personally, like, I cannot blame the founder of this protocol that basically lets you just, you know, launch a ticker for people doing rugs.
It's just, it's very hard for me to like kind of
condemn them for that. I know a lot of people do. I think it's very hard to create a launch pad and
just like, you could curate everything, but then you're like super liable and it becomes not that
fun. And I, you know, I think they had an extremely successful product and, you know, making 700
million is a very successful company in crypto. It's not that crazy. You know, Binance has probably made that on like
two or three of their scammy meme coin launches where they, you know, own a bunch of the tokens.
So I think the hate's a little bit undeserved. I just hope that the pre-sale is mostly taking
VC money. I don't know, Like, it's a pretty high valuation,
and I hope they're not trying to, like,
ICO that from retail.
I think, I don't know.
I think it's a lot of money.
It's a lot of money.
Tuxedo, do you have thoughts here?
Hey, guys.
What's up?
First and foremost, I am attending Ordinalz Lisbon,
which is pretty nice, I would say. Like, not
Vegas-style crazy, but it's chill, and I'm a bit disappointed that there are still more
people believing in NFTs rather than Ordinals, but it will change in time, I'm pretty sure. Regarding the PAM.FUN thing, Leo.
Now, this product, although I myself, like Jan, don't really like it,
and I used it many times, but it's really not my cup of tea,
it has a place to exist.
Crypto gambling existed way before PAM.FUN,
and the trenches actually existed before that. I remember a time
where we would trade coins, any tokens actually, it could be utility, it could be gaming, anything.
Back in 2020, 2021, we didn't have the tools we have today. So a bunch of degenerates like myself,
we would go on CoinMarketCap and we would see which token got
listed like in the last hour or so. So we would try to trade that. And it was a bit harder to do.
PAM.FUN, they just make the process simpler. You can like within seconds either create your own
token or find the token that you believe that in the next five minutes
is going to explode.
But there is one major issue, and that's the issue that made me hate them so much.
They drained the retail liquidity out of the market.
People believe that money is infinite.
Well, it's not.
Well, it's not, and that's the real problem.
And that's the real problem.
In order for the market to recover, those folks, the simple retail, they need to go
back to their real jobs, work for another three to six months, save some money, and
then they can return to the market and decide whether they will buy a meme coin again or
any other token.
Well, there are so many cases that
they drain the liquidity out of the market explain to me how the pump fund company drained the
liquidity from the market like that that's the critique i don't understand like i think a lot
of trenches have a major leadership problem and have basically a group of people who are pumping
and dumping and insider trading and have created a culture that is acceptable of this stuff.
But that's not on the protocol to curate the tokens.
Am I wrong?
That's a cultural problem that just happens to use a platform called Pump.Fun.
I'm not saying that Pump.fun is the only one to blame.
Maybe they are not even the ones to blame,
but the fact that they allowed this system to exist
and people with their bots, their snipers, and their fake tokens,
they managed to take advantage of the momentum that Pump.fun created
and drain the liquidity. All right, it's like,
okay, obviously a knife is not a weapon. It can be used as a cooking tool, but you provided them
that knife. So yes, maybe they are not the ones to blame. I'm not pointing the finger
to Pump.Fan Foundation, but they gave the tools to everyone that was looking to do harm, and they did.
So, yeah, who can we blame here, Leo?
Yeah, look, it's an interesting point.
I think, like, I definitely blame the ruggers.
I do not, you know, if they were, like, clearly incentivizing certain behaviors or, like, feeding into rugs or something, I would say, okay, they're like
encouraging this. But at the end of the day, like people have been launching tokens forever,
pumping and dumping tokens forever, doing, you know, ICOs forever, rugging tokens forever.
And this is just a protocol that makes it easier to launch a token. Like I fundamentally, like if
someone can solve the problem of like blocking the ruggers, maybe maybe one of these like ethos type platforms, you know, is the answer.
But people keep buying it and don't pay attention to the ethos. Right. You know, Meteora, who's, you know, owned by Jupiter, I believe, their CEO is like someone
involved in facilitating what was basically like these big, scammy, ruggy ICOs from a couple groups
of people. And that guy, you know, got fired, meow, took over. And basically, since then,
Jupiter and Meteora have been taking an approach, I think, that is more, a little more conservative.
And I'd like to see maybe more of that from the Punt1 people, which is they've implemented
this system where they provided a public API where anybody can call the API and it gives
a trust score on a token.
And it tells you, you know, it'll give check marks on certain tokens.
And they're kind of, I think, doing a lot of this algorithmically, you know, based on
AI and trading activity and who the creator is and this sort of stuff.
I think you have to create, you got to create and put these systems in place and make them easy to, easy to observe where, you know, it's not perfect and people can always get around these systems.
But I think it's like you got to at least try to make the effort.
at least try to make the effort.
And I'd like to see PumpFun try and make more of that effort,
where if you can, you know, see that there's a botnet group of wallets
that's associated that's, like, launching the same coins over and over,
and you can, like, prove that they're rugging, you know,
maybe when the coin launches, you give a really poor trust score.
They should probably invest in some stuff like that.
I still just think it's, like, it's a very hard problem to solve.
And ultimately, like, to me, the solution is change the culture of the people buying.
You do not have to spend your money on somebody who's rugging people over and over.
And culturally, we have to basically self-police and make that happen and just not buy these tokens.
Like everybody's celebrating the Trump token.
Like I was not celebrating the Trump token. Like I was not celebrating the Trump token. I felt an 80% pre-mined by like some company that Trump, you know, has buying his name
is not good for the space.
And it's just like kind of scammy.
And I'm just, you know, I'm just sitting here like, okay, so we're going to watch these
guys dump, you know, their 80% of the supply over the next three years as it unlocks.
Is this really like something that we should all be participating in? They could have, you know, they basically gutted it as much as you possibly
could to profit and not benefit everyone else, right? And I think there's a kind of motto in
crypto where it's like, you have to create win-wins. I don't like when an NFT mint, for example,
hurts the holders, extracts from the holders and benefits the team but the holders actually lose
right it's a dilution or this sort of stuff where i don't care if you make it i don't care even if
it's a hundred million dollar nft men if you win and you made it were the people who supported you
and your holders won that's what i like to see and uh yeah i don't know i think we'll have to
judge pump fund by what they actually do this was just a leaked article and we'll have to see what they do.
But, Tuxedo, I agree with a lot of your sentiment.
I think they could do more on this front.
I think it's a really hard problem to solve and nobody has solved it in 16 years of crypto.
And, you know, DOG is, for what it's worth, we're trying to propose alternatives with free and fair 100%, you know, airdrop model, model, and then culturally kind of trying to get people more aware around what's good and what's bad and like a spectrum and maybe staying on one end of the spectrum and not buying tokens that are kind of on the other far end of the spectrum.
I think we can make change here.
Yeah, we can do things here.
And I'm honestly pretty proud of the Bitcoin space with our meme coins.
I don't consider, like, I don't look at any of the top five Bitcoin meme coins and say,
wow, that was just a super scam situation.
It's obviously all a spectrum.
Tokens all exist on a spectrum.
But I don't consider any of them like scams or anything like the PumpFun, of the biggest rugs on pump fun 100 can i add something leo yeah man of course so it's not
the the tools you mentioned and the fact that they are they were missing for so long they never came
actually it's not only about those no name ruggers which they they have their own uh cabals and they use their own bot systems and
snipers no it there there should be tools in place to control even people that have a certain amount
of popularity like if we look at the uh what was the guy's name siggy or something they created a
token for his daughter and it blew up and then he became super popular
and it's an internet sensation overnight.
The next day, the guy launched a token for fun, he said, and he accidentally racked the
community.
So there should be at least tools to control the people that have already a decent amount
of popularity.
If you say, for example, Leonidas himself, he launched today a token, he rugged everyone,
then the next day he repeated the process.
Come on, just place some mechanism in place that will control at least your movement.
You are a public person.
Yeah, and we have that.
It's called a lockup, right?
And like the Trump team did do that, but they also also kept 80 of the supply in a lockup right so i'd kind of like i don't know that i've
seen models in nftments that i really like where they have a refund period and what it effectively
does is it says the floor cannot go below this amount for the first three months of the project. And it basically, it's kind of
like the try before you buy model. You send your, you know, 0.01 BTC or ETH or whatever currency it
is to go buy the NFT. You get the NFT. It's redeemable. Locked in a smart contract is the
amount you minted it for. You can redeem it at any time that you want to. So the floor will never go below the price that you minted. And you basically, there's basically literally zero risk
to mint this way. And then if the project, you know, for three months, it turns out that,
oh, they were really good at hyping up the launch, but they were going to rug or they weren't going
to do anything interesting. Then you would just go get your money back and there's literally no
harm done. And you get this trial period to see if the team's legit or not.
I think that model is pretty clever.
I'd like to see more of it.
There's a reason why teams don't do it because basically, if you can get away with not doing
a mint like that, then why would you do a mint like that?
It's up to retail to say, we demand that the new standard, if you want us to support Mint's and the KOLs to support Mint's, we demand that you use this new model.
And retail is just not organized enough. I don't really know how else to say it. Retail needs to
organize a lot more and demand that things be favoring them a little bit more. I'd love to see,
like if PumpFun, for example, only does a 7.5% airdrop
to the community, I would love to see a bunch of people say, you know, screw these people,
we deserve 50%. I do think the community deserves, you know, 25, 50% of that token. So
it's a spectrum. And I think people get really greedy and kind of selfish.
And this space actually like really, really does reward you.
It really rewards the company that supports the people that supported it or the project that supported it.
So we'll have to see.
We'll have to see what they do, Tuxedo.
It's interesting.
I know we've got Vincent and Cynthia and Vito and J-Dog here all on stage.
I think everybody here is into meme coins, except maybe Cynthia.
I don't know, dude.
Do any of you guys have thoughts on this pump fund,
kind of moving off Solana, raising a billion dollar thing?
I mean, you know, them raising a million dollars,
whatever the money is going to go to,
if it's for an airdrop or if it's to build the company,
whatever it may be. I mean, to be very honest, it's given me PTSD with blur with the whole
season airdrops. And to me, I don't think, okay, this is just my opinion, okay? So listen,
I love airdrops. I love free money. I've had a time. In the end, though, here's the thing that I see that happens the most, that they're doing these airdrops to keep people interested, right? To keep people engaged, to keep people visiting their website and their platforms, to keep using their services that they are still used today.
use today. But I feel like it's a very, if you're a brand new website, or you're a brand new company,
and you're doing an airdrop just to get people to be interested, then I think you're getting
people interested for the wrong reasons. You know, pumped up fun, to me is still fairly new.
Blur, when the blur marketplace on Ethereum was around, everybody was all about the airdrops.
And you saw what happened to, say, for instance, Machi Big Brother, who was farming so many different trades.
And he was expecting to get a big airdrop from Blur and ended up not turning off that way.
You can disappoint people and you can make people pretty happy.
It really just depends, right?
But then there's, say, for instance, Magic Eden.
Magic Eden, they raised VC monies.
They eventually did the airdrop, but it was like four years later that they did the airdrop of the ME token.
And still they have traffic on their platform, obviously, because they do cross-chain interoperability.
interoperability. But with Pumped Out Fund, I think the thing that we cannot ignore is that
the people that go to Pumped Out Fund are usually people, and I'm just going to say it straight up,
these are not stock investors. These are not long-term investors. These are traders.
And I like to think of some of them as gamblers. And so when you think about gambling in Las Vegas,
say, for instance right you may think
like how is that even legal like people losing thousands upon thousands of dollars well that's
what gambling is like gambling is a word for a reason so there are going to people that are
going to gamble and then there are people who are just good honest people who accidentally get
rugged because they fell for a project that they thought was really cool because their influencer
told them to so i think there's always going to be good and evil regardless.
And I think it is absolutely necessary to make sure to be educated,
but to educate others on this.
I don't think we can stop, but it's inevitable,
which is eventually more coins are going to pop out of nowhere
with some random ticker symbol, some random short-term cult, and then it dumps.
It's just going to happen.
And what you can do is just try to help those people.
But as much as we try to avoid these things,
the SEC already classified that mean coins are not security.
So honestly, game on.
Everybody now has to protect themselves.
If Pumped Out Phone wants to do this airdrop, good for them.
I want them to be successful if they can.
I'm sure that in the very beginning, a lot of people were using Pumped Out Fun for really bad reasons and doing really nasty things.
I think companies grow by making mistakes in the very beginning.
You can't be perfect from the get-go.
Again, I think I'm open-minded to see what happens.
I think there's a little bit more oversight over the website now,
and hopefully they do the right thing, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah, man, I appreciate it.
On the airdrop thing, you're definitely right
that not all airdrops are created equal, right?
So I'll give examples of airdrops I didn't like, which is, you know, I don't even remember the name, but it was a VC chain.
And I think it was Eigenlayer or somebody. And they did this whole farming campaign where you
farm and farm and farm. And then they announced that like, we're giving 7.5% of the supply to the community.
And it's like, come on guys. It's like, it's like you had everyone farm and farm and farm, but then really it's like
92.5% was extracted by insiders or like went to insiders.
And this tiny little amount you set aside for the community and like, you're a protocol
that it's like, people need, you need people to use it.
And like, uh, they changed their thing and gave like people an extra 5% or something.
But people do airdrops where, no, it's, you're not a fricking airdrop.
If you give 10%, 7% of the supply in the airdrop, that's not an airdrop.
Go screw yourself.
Like an airdrop is like 50% of the supply.
Otherwise it's just like a little marketing gimmick.
And then I would say,
I also don't like the model of just farming, right? Like this Laudio thing.
What it really was, was like, how do I attract the absolute worst possible people for my community?
Which is this group of people who just goes around a bunch of like the Ethereum influencers.
They were NFT influencers last cycle
they basically just host spaces now where they talk about like what you can farm and it'll be
like some new vc chain this week or there will be some new project that you farm for the week and
they'll talk about it it could be meme coins you're farming nfts you're farming whatever they do not
care about the meme coins and the nfts there's no community they're just they're just clicking buttons to farm airdrop and then they move to the next one
these are like the absolute last people on earth that you want picking a random person on the
street would be way better than these people being part of your community so you know the
loudio definitely suffered from that and i think like blur has suffered from that like blur got a
bunch of attention but ultimately just attracted the wrong people that did not care about blur. We're
not fans of blur. We're not super fans of blur did not love blur. You know, they were talking
about blur and using blur to get an airdrop. And then they all left like a week later. And like, what I really do like in an airdrop is the model of what Dog did and Runestone
and Hyperliquid and Uniswap, where you basically, without anyone knowing, do this airdrop. So there
was no farming aspect. And you specifically cast a net on the people who you think deserve it the most.
So for Uniswap, it's like, okay, they didn't tell anyone they're doing an airdrop.
They do a massive airdrop of Uniswap.
It's still, I think, the biggest airdrop to date, maybe Hyperliquid is now.
But they airdropped a huge percentage of the supply.
All of their early users got rich off of it.
And they all became massive supporters for it long term.
And it became the
top decks uh in the world and like i don't think it would have necessarily done that had they not
uh done the airdrop the way they did and hyperliquid's the same way hyperliquid 100% of
the supply is given out as airdrop. It's not fully distributed,
but it's all 100% to reward the community and stuff.
And a huge part of that was at the start
before you could farm it and stuff,
just to the people who were kind of using
their early version of hyperliquid.
So that's the model.
I mean, that's definitely the model.
If you just look at what's successful long-term,
it's not just about
getting attention. It's about getting attention from the right people and attracting the right
kind of liquidity. And I just summarize it as like organic, authentic, real. If it is the trader,
farmer, doesn't care about your brand, doesn't care about your coin, doesn't care about the
community, you want them out, get them the hell out. They can move in and out of your stuff and move the price. But if that's the foundation of your
community or that's who you're literally airdropping to, I mean, find me a great
example of when that succeeded. The biggest things happening right now, the hyperliquids,
the dogs, these are two of the most exciting tokens the cycle followed this model and the
boars and these monads these things that people talk about for two weeks they're just a flash in
the pan and they die forever and they didn't establish a community so um i want to see i want
to see pump fun and more companies not do the crazy farming thing and just airdrop and make everyone super happy.
I think when you do that, those people don't forget that. And they're going to be supporters
of you and they're going to be champions for the brand and the company and the community and all
this stuff. So these airdrops are not created equal. Airdrops are definitely not created equal.
Yeah, Leo, it kind of feels that they're kind of just following the airdrop
meta because like you said there's been a lot of these farming type of tokens that are being created
and to me i just see pumped off on it as a casino they're a successful casino they made a lot of
money but it seems like a lot of that that money that profit that they make it becomes gets extracted
from the actual ecosystem and kind of what you were mentioning earlier i wasn't aware of uh i
don't know if that's a rumor or if they're they're trying to make their own their own blockchain
it just seems like yeah they're just extracting more from solana which isn't good for for solana
they're definitely extracting from solana like this is not good for solana the biggest app on
solana is going to take all of the liquidity and all of the users and move to a new blockchain
that's not good if there was yo listen i don't think they'll be
successful on that new blockchain by the way solana kind of you know made it uh fun and made
the trenches a thing um just in that regard for pump fund to even exist um people remember that
shit and look a competitor will come around in two seconds and steal their fucking their shine
there already is a lot of people we've seen this a million times over in solana whether it be an art company that you know houses artists going under
and then another one replacing it very quickly it these these things happen very very quickly so
when you get greedy in this space people fucking remember and uh they'll take their money elsewhere, you know? Yeah. So I look, I hear you.
I still think like I watch people, you know, I've watched chains that raised, you know,
$125 million, get a lot of attention, bootstrap a decent amount of users.
You know, people pay attention to it for at least a few weeks.
When you have a billion dollars and on top of your existing $700 million and a brand that's
pretty well known, I do think there's like a scale where like, even though Binance is literally
listing, there's literally $20 million market cap meme coins on Binance right now called
Broccoli 743 and Mubarak and Tut and blah, blah, blah blah there's like all these weird coins you've
never heard of that binance has decided to list over the past year in addition to a bunch of coins
that are down 98 in in value because they were just insider rugs that you know binance made a
ton of money on listing and owning a bunch of the token before listing. And Binance still has a ton of users.
So there is this sort of model of like, you got to have the mental model of like, yes,
what you're saying is true, but you can also overcome that with just having billions of
dollars of capital. You can just force your way through that. You can counteract that.
If you're just like a small startup, yeah, and you have a huge reputation problem,
that's a huge issue. But you can also just buy your way through the space if you have almost $2 billion, right?
A lot of the money that they've extracted from the ecosystem, you know, like that could have been staked.
And as they could have, you know, increased the price of Solana a lot.
They're not keeping their efforts on the chain.
You know, they're trying to obviously move out and do their own thing but i don't know if that works out also they teased an airdrop
for a lot of the early users i'm one of the early users i was there in the first couple of weeks
you know i made a lot of money on pump fund i lost money a lot i made a lot of money so i mean like
they better reward the fucking early users that's all all I'm going to say. Man, I would, man, I would look.
Yeah.
In my opinion, they, look, I don't, they don't necessarily, from a business decision perspective,
I get why they're moving off Solana.
You kind of just look at it.
It's like, crypto, it's not rocket science.
It's like, okay, like, Luca, you know, did pudgy penguins.
Is he just going to do an NFT collection forever?
No, he wants to become bigger.
So there's like a couple options.
Launch an exchange, whether nowadays that would be a DEX.
So launch a place where people trade tokens or create a new blockchain.
Those are the 10, 20, 30 billion dollar opportunities.
So Luca went and launched a blockchain
and basically moved off of Ethereum to an L2.
An L2 is just a blockchain basically, right?
It's in my opinion, directly competing with Ethereum.
And long-term, I think a lot of these L2s
will break off from Ethereum, be their own brands.
I'm sure Coinbase will not be part of Ethereum
in five years, right? It's a
Yeah, people do this and I think that's fine and I think competition is good
And I don't think pump fun necessarily has to stay on Solana because you know if basically the value proposition isn't there
You know it creates room for other people to
Do fill the same void on Solana, which is fine. And that's maybe good
for radium, for example. So I don't really, I don't blame them that much. Like you can move
off your blockchain, kind of do what you want there, create a new blockchain. That's fine.
I think ultimately it's probably good for the space as a whole to have a bunch of people competing.
I do think if they don't airdrop you guys, like at least 25% of the supply of this token,
I mean, they're just not,
I don't like that company anymore. So man, I hope, I hope you make a bunch of money off the airdrop,
dude. You, you help them get to where they are. All right. Anybody else want to talk about pump fun? Shit on pump fun. Say that we're all idiots and praise pump fun. Do we have any opinions on
stage about this? Jan, you know, you know, you want to give another hot take no i don't have any hot take because man i i didn't
use that shit you know and uh you know i kind of regret if uh the airdrop if they're gonna follow
your uh advice right now and they're gonna do 100 airdrop to the community you know then i
probably left like some money on the table but you, you know, at the same time, no, man, like, you know, I get it.
You know, it is what it is.
It's crypto, as you said, you know, like I definitely don't think it's good for Solana.
It's interesting because, you know, a lot of the VCs that invested early,
they're like Solana Maxis and like now Pum.Fund is like, if that's true again,
I don't know.
I didn't really study it too much.
But like if they're launching their own chain,
you know, that's not good for Solana.
But I also would say it's very, very, very, very hard thing to do
and succeed eventually, right?
Because I think it's a very different thing to build a great fucking product.
Let's say this casino-like product that people really like and use and do
trading and launch meme coins, et cetera, to launching a blockchain, right? And maintaining
a long-term success of a blockchain. Like only very few people can do that in a way that the
blockchain actually survives more than like a couple of years. Right. And so, you know, yes, it's ambitious.
As you said, it's like the 30 billion plus dollar opportunity for sure.
But man, like I just feel like majority of the people are going to fail at this.
Right.
Because building an app, building, let's say a software product that leverages some infra and just focuses on,
you know, again, solving one issue or solving two problems for a user and, uh, giving them
what they want is order of magnitude simpler than building a fucking blockchain and making
sure that the blockchain actually stand the test of time. So they're just like my two cents.
Good for them if they can pull it off, like great fucking job. But, you know, I just think that
they're signing up themselves for like a crazy, crazy challenge, you know, that may not actually
end up working out. And, you know, again, for them, it's going to be okay because they're going to,
you know, lock in their profits and, you know, the users that are going to be delusional,
potentially, you know, they're going to be the ones that and the users that are going to be delusional potentially,
they're going to be the ones that lose money.
But yeah, I think they should just stick with building the best fucking app they can
and maybe suite of products for the meme coin users.
And I think they would do better service to the ecosystem
than launching a new fucking chain, to be honest.
Yeah, it depends if the new chain does something novel or not.
To me, launching a new blockchain, what I see a lot of people doing chain to be honest yeah it depends if the new chain does something novel or not like to me
launching a new blockchain what i see a lot of people doing is taking a bunch of years of
cryptographic research and a bunch of all this like tech stuff that happens behind the scenes
and all these you know super genius engineers do and then they just take that and it's open source
and they just like you can just launch a blockchain super easily now i want to see them not just copy paste you know basically
every one of these ethereum l2s like this abstract chain it's just a you know in 30 seconds you can
copy paste optimism and put it and call it your chain abstract, right? It's technically not hard. So I'd like to see them do something like Hyperliquid did,
which is push the space forward
with a new novel model of higher throughput,
lower latency, this sort of stuff
that actually improves the space, technically speaking.
But there is this other model of saying,
hey, we're just gonna be really good at marketing.
And I do think today on being successful, creating a lot of these blockchains, it's not necessarily a technology game.
It's not an engineering thing.
It's can you create a network effect and be really good at marketing and community and this sort of stuff much more than it's about, you know, did we technically do something?
Because there's really no actual value.
It's true.
I think marketing is obviously extremely important.
Don't get me wrong, right?
I think there is a lot of great chains out there that are built by cryptographers
that changed the game for the entire crypto space.
They came up with like, you know, ZKs 12 years ago and whatever, right?
Like, you know, I get it, right?
And they're not successful because they don't know how to attract early users. They're not
successful because they're not DGNs themselves and they don't understand incentives, right?
So I totally understand, you know, what you're saying. I think marketing is extremely, extremely
important. But if you look at on the other side of the spectrum, right? Like like most of these marketing only
Driven chains or driven products like how long do they last right? Like Vincent mentioned it like you're just gonna like
You know run this about 20 hours young that about 20 hours is the amount of hours you're looking for
I hope it's more than 20 hours.
But, like, you know, I mean, Vincent mentioned Blur, right?
Like, they, you know, it's funny, right?
Because they launched Blur.
They had a token for Blur.
Then they launched Blast.
Then they had a token for Blast.
And it was like rinse and repeat and, like, always saying how we are going to change the game for fucking everything.
And did they actually change the game for anything?
Like, I don't think so, you know?
So, you know, there was no innovation, nothing.
There was maybe innovation on the tokenomics side.
But how long did it last, you know, and what kind of good did it bring to the space?
So, again, I'm not trying to shit on builders, right?
Like, I think.
Look, I hear you.
And I honestly attribute most of that to the, they're just doing the airdrop farming.
And that is not how you market your blockchain.
But if you look at, like, Coinbase, for example, Coinbase didn't actually technically do much.
They're just an optimism blockchain.
Optimism did all the hard work.
They did the years and years and years of research around doing rollups and L2s on Ethereum.
And they broke through and they released their thing.
And then their chain optimism and their token optimism is honestly not that successful.
It's a billion dollars. That's
cool, but not super successful in my opinion. I don't think there's not that much usage. Coinbase
copy-pastes their blockchain and uses that tech and has the top L2. And Coinbase does that because
they're really good at brand building and marketing and business stuff. They didn't actually have an
engineering team that did anything. They had a business,
they had a good business team
and they had a good marketing and brand team.
And like that is what won the L2s on Solana.
Man, I got you,
but I think you're comparing uncomparable
to be honest, Leo,
because, you know,
Coinbase is a sustainable business
and these guys are looking into the future
and they have a plan
for 10 years right they don't have a plan for just let's launch a fucking blockchain and like
let's see what happens after if it's successful cool if not we're just gonna do something else
you know when x first blockchain when x first blockchain when definitely definitely not not anytime soon you know so i'm a loyal expert user i want to airdrop
i'm gonna get off this call and call kenny's like ken we gotta do a blockchain apparently
all you have to do is market it no man like you know man like you know we we discuss everything
internally right so like we discuss things like this, like, all the time.
Like, doesn't mean that we're going to do them.
We're going to, like, we have so many other things to do right now.
Let's be honest, right?
But, no, just going back, like, you know, Coinbase, 100%.
Like, you know, I think they know that they can,
obviously, they have a great business team.
They have a great marketing team.
They know how to plan, like, in advance,
go-to-market strategy and stuff like that
But like you cannot compare coinbase to like, you know, like a like like a team that was born out of
Genes in crypto, right? Because I think these people are driven by completely different things
like they're not driven by you know having a long-term plan and like figuring things out as they go and like you know
Even like investing crazy amount of money into something that may not
actually work out.
Like, like these other teams are driven just by hype and like, let's do something hype.
And if there is no hype, okay, maybe we give up or maybe we just try something else that
is hype.
You know, that is a great example of blur and Pac-Man, right?
Like, like a smart dude for sure.
But you know, like they didn't do anything
novel in terms of technology they didn't really stick with anything when they failed with one
thing like you would expect like okay we're gonna pick what we're gonna try to actually make it work
no instead let's let's launch another hype i didn't know i was so passionate about this topic
we need to talk more about uh we need to talk more about this i think we should all take a moment and appreciate i was just thinking there like xverse you know we should take a moment to
acknowledge xverse is like really kicked ass as a company like you guys have become kind of like
the google of search engines but for bitcoin wallets like i don't know the actual stats but
you know maybe there's some laser eye wallet that i'm not aware of, but I'm pretty sure you at least,
I think in my mind, you're the number one Bitcoin wallet in the world.
There may be some laser eye wallet that's been around for 10 years that technically
has more users or something, but you guys are crushing it.
And yeah, I don't know.
I just want to want to acknowledge that like, you know, a year or two ago, it was kind of unclear, you know, oh, there's like five different wallets and
you guys have emerged. And I don't know, quite frankly, I don't hear anybody talking about any
other wallets. I just, you know, it's Xverse. So shout out to you guys. And you guys have like
done that in a good way. Like you guys have not farmed a bunch of people. You guys have not,
you know, attacked your competitors ever um you just
built the best products so shout out experts um shout out experts leo i'm sorry i was uh twitter
was ragging me did we confirm that experts is doing a token and 100 airdrop is that correct
i'm super excited experts is doing a billion dollar raise to create a blockchain and they're gonna do a huge
airdrop that's correct yon so on one one i just signed a contract with leonitis you know yesterday
night because we were discussing it over our smoothie and so we we made a contract together
that the next airdrop for uh runestone is to be 100% only allocated to the Xverse users.
Nobody else is going to get anything.
So we signed a contract, guys.
I was also on the smoothie call.
We blended smoothies together.
And I can confirm there's no tech on the back end of this.
It will be solely hype driven.
He's going to drop this out and it'll be going to zero within 20 hours, guys.
We don't need tech here in this space.
We just need hype.
Any KOL with a name tag can fuel the hype and the entire crypto LARP community will get behind it on every other chain other than Bitcoin.
So, you're saying that IP is dead?
IP is dead?
Let's not work on the IP.
No, I'm just saying Bitcoin is, I'm just saying on ordinals, people like to build on other chains.
You can just market hype and have no tech behind it by the look.
So I'm just solely going off what I've seen in the last maybe month or two on EVM.
It's pretty wild.
But yeah, please proceed.
Smoothies onward.
Jan, question, bro.
Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, you're good.
Yeah.
You're good yeah you're good when when when would we be
able to uh connect our lightning nodes to the x-first wallet and use the funds from there
like that's like you know you know about zeus right like it's a lightning wallet they do that
i think that would be legendary i don't know man i don't know it feels like very technical uh
legendary i don't know man i don't know it feels like very technical uh that's uh i don't know how
how we would do it what would it take but you know like we we actually have all of these things like
on the roadmap somewhere you know like not necessarily lightning nodes but we have discussed
like you know how you can connect your bitcoin node and stuff like that like there's these are
all of the things that we have somehow planned internally.
It's just like, man, I will tell you the number one thing that is the hardest thing about building in crypto and building a startup is really allocating resources,
trying to obviously manage expectations of the users, trying to improve the product all the time, ship new features that are hyped and while, you know,
like just making engineers happy,
you know, like I know that
Leonidas probably knows that
because he also works on the product.
He has a bunch of-
Yeah, you don't want your engineers
to be pissed at you.
And you know,
you don't want to add new things
to engineers and change the way
how you think about the business
every month.
Because if you do that,
then they're all probably going to leave
and they're going to be like,
fuck you, man. But Jan, we don't want, people don't want to know about the X-Force if you do that, then they're all probably gonna leave and they're gonna be like, fuck you, man.
But Jan, we don't want, people don't want to know
about the X-Force engineers.
People want to know about the X-Force brand team.
When do we get dog, like that little orange part
of the X-Force logo, when is that gonna be dog?
The deal has been signed, the deal has been signed.
I have delivered, I have prepared everything,
but you have not delivered your part of the deal, Leo.
So I don't know why you're asking me.
We're in finance.
We're in June, all right?
We're going to get there this month.
I mean, look, guys, listen to me.
If we actually hit a billion dollars during Rune June, Rune June becomes a thing forever.
And I'm going to talk about it relentlessly for all of time.
So let's hit a billion dollars, okay?
Hey, the most bullish thing was Peter from Kraken,
the one that manages the listing, saying Rune June the other day.
So it's a go, man.
I'm excited for this month.
Rune June.
I love it becauseβ
Can we talk about the Rune FUD?
Because this has been annoying the hell out of me.
Oh, man.
Yeah, what is...
Can we all agree that RuneS has already succeeded at this point?
To me, the whole point of RuneS was to scale Bitcoin,
create a fungible token on top of Bitcoin.
And it's done that successfully.
Dog is the...
What we have to show for it, pretty much.
It's already a successful
asset yeah it's just ridiculous this kind of conversation that we're having like i think uh
trevor pointed out too runes themselves there it has a higher market cap than ordinals people can
understand why ordinals exist they're non-fungible tokens versus fungible tokens i honestly look i kind J-Dog, I kind of reject this framing because I see what's happening.
And it's like, there's this weird framing where it's like, everybody's trying to like,
say it's ordinals versus runes.
And like, even when you defend yourself when someone does that, you're kind of acknowledging
that it's ordinals versus runes.
And I just like, like, I've never seen on any blockchains, it'd be like NFTs versus
fungible tokens. Like, I've never. on any blockchains it be like NFTs versus fungible tokens.
Like I've never.
No, I agree.
I don't understand why they're trying to compete between ordinals and runes.
They're both protocols on top of Bitcoin.
How can one, it just doesn't make sense that if one, if ordinals are successful and then runes is a failure, that doesn't make sense.
It doesn't compute.
Well, if anything, if we don't get fungible tokens on Bitcoin, then ordinals will probably be this niche thing forever.
If we unlock a massive economy on Bitcoin with everything Web3, then there's going to be hundreds of billions of dollars here flowing around.
And ordinals are going to be way more successful.
So this idea of we should only ever do ordinals on Bitcoin and everything else bad is like one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Like any any blockchain that launches and the only thing on the blockchain is an NFT.
The ability to make NFTs is not going to be a successful blockchain.
You need an ecosystem of lots of things to keep attention and to basically have a financial economy on the chain.
So I've never understood that framing and like this very PVP mindset of like, you're
taking liquidity for me. You can do this between ordinals collections. You can do this between
ordinals and runes. You can do all this stuff. Like at the end of the day, runes is a completely
different thing. Like meme coins are different than NFTs. And look, quite frankly, if you wanted
to correlate something to like, why are ordinals down right now? It's because look at any chain.
Look at NFTs on Solana, right?
People were talking a year ago when ordinals were at peak, right?
NFTs on Solana and MadLads were super hot.
And everybody's talking about NFTs on Solana as well, right?
And the NFT asset class was getting a lot of attention, right?
And even NFTs on Ethereum, you know, I just don't see people talking about them right now.
So the NFT asset class has a like mind share problem that has nothing to do with ordinals or Ethereum NFTs or small NFTs.
It has everything to do with the NFT asset class. And I don't think that's a permanent thing.
I think that's a temporary thing.
I think that's a temporary thing. OK, so I would say it's more of the market.
OK, so I would say it's more of the market.
The market right now, it's generally more risk off.
And for NFTs, they're they're far more risky because of the liquidity issue as far as trading
them.
Meme coins are much more easier to trade, even runes still.
There's still a deeper liquidity on runes compared to NFTs, ordinals.
Well, the meme coin community is one thing that's advantageous is that they can
grow to a larger number nft communities by definition are this like scarce number of spots
first the fungible token you can have literally you know half a billion people owning btc so the
the upside like you know if you're an nft, the goal is to just get a bunch of millionaires holding your pieces, right?
That's the end game, right?
And it caps out at kind of a certain point there.
I've always been a fan, and, like, some people hate this, but, like, I want to see this hybrid model where you could do basically a hybrid where it is a PFP collection and it is a meme coin.
Okay.
So imagine there's, you know, a hundred thousand PFPs or 10,000 PFPs or whatever it is.
And you can basically talk to a smart contract trustlessly, submit your PFP and get a percentage,
you know, one 10,000th of the supply of the token.
And then that way, quote-unquote community
it's one asset it's pfp and meme coin it can be listed on binance and everywhere it can trade as
a fungible token you have massive liquidity always if you want to sell you can have a much larger
community than 10 000 but you also have the ride or die exclusivity of 10 000 people who are like
the most elite scarce group and there can only
ever be 10,000 of them so it's called NFT fractionalization I've always wanted to see
this take off maybe I'll build something around it at some point but the bottom line is like
yeah like pitting pitting NFTs versus fungible tokens is like one of just it's one of the truly
dumber framings that I've heard and I just just, I've seen no other ecosystems kind of be obsessed with this. And I think it's like very unhealthy
in our ecosystem. And quite frankly, what I've really seen, to be honest, is like
people that are down on their bags, you know, prices are down and they're just turning on each
other. It used to be us as a family fighting the world and fighting the maxis fighting people outside of our group and then now people are
just fighting each other and i think it's like very disappointing there's definitely a lack of
like yeah i don't know it's just disappointing to watch but i'm just definitely not going to
participate in it i have no interest in it. If people are going to put out tweets like,
oh, you know, dog is like the worst asset ever and like runes suck. And I'm just like looking at a chart where like dog is like up 6x in the past two months. And then like that person's
assets have been like 98% down from all time high. I mean, it's just, it's hard for me to take any of
this stuff seriously. To be totally honest. But please stop fighting each other. It's hard for me to take any of this stuff seriously, to be totally honest. But please stop fighting each other.
It's a huge, pointless exercise.
Fight the people outside of this ecosystem.
Let's fight Binance.
Let's fight Ethereum and Savannah.
Let's fight the Bitcoin Maxis.
Let's not fight each other.
One of the things you said there, Leo, is very interesting.
You should talk to Starly um obviously only for exactly
what you just mentioned about fact fractionalization is pretty much what he's developing with ERC 721
AI NFTs um housing tokens and whatnot so definitely check that out a little bit of sleep at alpha
um lowest listings of all time both chains right now not going to shill it too hard but definitely
do your own research but dude I think the biggest missing thing with like what, so like early ordinals and
why we were so like over the moon, the vibes were so high was because everyone was strictly
there for the art.
And then there's been that pivotal point where now it's like what you're talking about, this
whole utility driven, like we need this, we we need that runes and all this shit so there's still like a a huge split down the middle of why people are buying
ordinals and why people are buying runes so like there's a whole people a whole lot of people i
know who still buy ordinals strictly for art on chain and they believe that in the future that's
where collectibles are going to be and then there's the others who want to build on chain and they believe that in the future that's where collectibles are going to be and then there's the others who want to build on chain they want to build out the tech and stuff so until we
find that middle ground or until the space matures and we realize that art on chain is actually
valuable again which it is like i haven't sold any of my early ordinals like i'm stacked to the brim
in my ex-vis wallet with sub hundies and like they're not going anywhere because i know where this space is going but until everyone agrees again that art should be on chain and
it should be on the mother chain ordinal is probably not going to see us big pump so in
the meantime 100 it makes sense to go trade ruins pop up the ecosystem get some volume get some
transactions going and then rotate profits into whatever you like like we just we we all need to
come up as one and we need to find a way for the liquidity to move around and then rotate profits into whatever you like like we just we we all need to come up as one
and we need to find a way for the liquidity to move around and then it will find its position
like there's going to be the collectors i go trade other chains and then i come back i just
swept the shit and i mean the shit out of uh the world peace cards collection that's just a rune
collectible card and i just see that gizmo is doing so well that i think the cards are going
to do well in the future if the mimetic culture goes on as it does with bitcoin being an early
mover in early space like that's how people move so everyone needs to just take a little step back
and i think the pvp stuff is just ridiculous at this point the fact that oddy's out here
doing what he's doing with runes is just
pretty low level like he doesn't i'm not going to go into that like come on now oddy dude
um but runes 100 have a place on chain there is always going to be the users there's going to be
more people coming for them it's just going to take a bit of time and same affordables man like
you'll find there is the same group of collectors there's about
120 of us we're in every single server and we still collect every art drop specifically if it's
one of one it's the same people same servers everyone moving around positioning themselves
very well for the future because we know where it's heading so uh there's a lot to unpack there
but that's my take yeah man look man, look, I love it.
And I think like, I hope when ordinals do come back
and I do definitely believe they're gonna come back.
My hope is that people,
my hope is that we spend our stats
on things like you just mentioned.
And, you know, kind of bottom up communities,
bottom up PFP collections, you know, of bottom-up communities bottom-up PFP collections
you know companies that are creating IP that are putting it back into the
ecosystem I think you know collecting art like this idea of just sending
Rakitoshi tens of millions of dollars and I mean as far as I can tell like to
be totally honest I literally think this is like basically a fact what I've
actually seen for the community is
like a dozen tweets from a twitter account over the course of like a year and a half
and a party at like the bitcoin bar in new york city that like eight people showed up to
it's like what the fuck like this is insane if we just keep doing that ordinals is not going to be
like super successful i'm just spoiler alert um yeah i don't know okay let's not do that again is what i would basically say perfect time for me
to actually turn it on for because now it's on topic and it's relatable so like look at owning
for example huge sleeper and everyone knows like xvers has done events where everyone's seen how many events
like star will be funneled funds into in the early days to get ordinals to where they were
and it was just like someone something that no one talked about and it's always baffled me it's like
same as trevor with ninjas like there's all these huge events and people just overlook it
and it's like but that was bringing traction to the space in the early days.
And now that the space has matured, everyone's just moved on from it.
It's like, no, these IPs were pushing the space forward.
And then there's like ongoing animations.
You look at ninjas, these dudes are just crushing it with the animations.
OnlyForce is absolutely crushing it with our animations.
There's all of the stuff that's building on ip and those are the projects that don't get enough attention because the hype's
gone it's moved on it's two years and whatever four three years however long your project's been
out but those are the ones that are just having this slow consolidation and they are actually
here for the right reason they're putting their funds into the ecosystem they're building on ip and nothing's faster like you look at if you go to pinterest for example and
you go and you look at all the different models search your favorite ip and the brand evolution
like look up batman where it started to where it is look up marvel where it started where it is all
of these things they don't just happen overnight it is literally years and i'm talking not like two years i'm talking 30 years of brand evolution but until
the tipping point so we might be so early that we just don't even know what's going on yet
but we know the direction we're heading in and everyone who's building on on these chains and
doing stuff with these ips is you you know, ahead of themselves, really.
You're literally like, no one knows what's going to happen to you.
We might all be checking these experts while it's later on
and be like just retiring the entire bloodline.
I know we make jokes about it, but it's like,
what happens if one of these IPs does actually blow up?
What happens if it gets taken on by Netflix?
What happens if it's just like the biggest
thing to ever shock the space and it all just snaps on out of nowhere because one dude made
a phone call and his company had been building in silence for three years and no one was giving it
the respect that it deserved that's all the stuff that goes through my mind as an ip enjoyer and
that's how i position myself so every time i got like profits on somewhere i go and roll it into a builder still got my ninjas still got my all my only force still got my
ombs all that stuff just hold it lock it up and just believe in the space and the way it's going
because there's all the short-term stuff which is like the hype cycle stuff specifically the
farming you were talking about dude the farming we all understand marketing if
leo wanted to go and farm something and drop it tomorrow it would be the biggest news all over
the space every influencer would be on it doesn't farm at all nah he just chose he just chose a rune
dude he could have you could have cheated out um leo you could have just retired the bloodline
with like two tweets in a in a x XP Twitter farm with no on-chain activity.
In the back of my head over the last two years, I've been like, you know, should I have done a $50 million PFP collection?
Like do a 100K PFP collection, just call it art like these other people do, raise $50 million.
Like it's a legit question I've asked.
And, you know, it's a lot of fucking money.
It would be a good life
Yeah, I'm just not gonna do it. But you know, it's something that I guess you theoretically can do
But yeah, I'm just not gonna you do it. You know Mac I didn't choose rich
I want to say one thing about the IP which you know, I I fully agree. I
Love IP. Obviously. I I haven't sold any of these ordinals. I actually bought more
Love IP. Obviously, I haven't sold any of these ordinals. I actually bought more.
However, it's so hard thing to do, right?
Because, you know, you have to just, like, be around for a long time to have a chance to, like, really blow up.
Like, I was just reminded of this by this, like, labubu stuff, right?
Like, I don't know if you guys know this shit, but in Asia, it's like this fucking crazy thing right now
Everybody talks about it. I even get fucking ads on my Twitter by companies by
Asian exchanges that are giving away la boo boo, you know, and is there the fluffy looking gizmo looking thing that you tweet?
Yeah
Stop stop stop stop stop stop stop before we get lost young go find a picture of what you're talking about nobody knows what you're talking about
okay okay i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna pin it i'm gonna pin it okay but i i just want to tell
the story because i think it's i think it's very interesting and i'm not even an expert on la boo
boo right like i just i just looked into it like a little bit la boo boo it's called la boo boo it's called coming out
okay i just i just pinned it this is the picture uh you guys have probably seen it everywhere it
was in vegas people were like even talking about it there i get ads on my twitter like exchanges
like giving away this shit and so basically like you know to your point mac like i when i looked into it i
actually learned that it's not a new ip like that this stuff has been around for a long time like
there is some artists that created it but nobody cared i never heard about it until
two months ago because pop mart which is the china's number one uh company for these like blind boxes like for kids
for collectibles and stuff like that they listed it right and they started selling it and it's
always sold out it's basically like nft drop so what these guys do pop mart you should look into
them i think it's a it basically reminds you like why nfts make so much sense when people tell you
all it's just bullshit you guys are just gambling like like there's literally a company called Popmart that has the same business model
they just do it with physical stuff so they will send you they will sell you these blind boxes
and they have limited editions kids buy it they open it and then some people resell it on the
resale platforms for like 10x the price if they get a rare one, right? Like it's happening. It's a publicly traded company worth, I don't know, probably $10 billion,
nothing. I don't know. Like it's big. And these guys listed this IP and started selling this IP
and it blew out like out of proportions. Like everybody talks about it now, right? And again,
I'm not an expert on this IP. I don't know how long it has been around but I heard that
It is some artists that has been around for a long time and only now it kind of gained this mainstream
Popularity that you're talking about Mac like if one of these IPs be it only force or pizza ninjas or you know
other IPs that people are building
Like if it gets to the point that it hits some sort of mainstream
or some collaboration like this, of course, like, you know,
it's going to be crazy good.
But I just think like, you know, it takes time, right?
Like it's this unfortunate thing about IP that like building an IP
is actually the hardest thing that you can take on, right?
Especially in the NFT world because people just don't have that patience.
You know, people just want to see that, like, let my bags man tomorrow that's what i care about so yeah it's
just like my point to to what you said but man i i love i think it makes sense like ip on chain
makes so much sense to me yeah yeah it totally does and this is like i i can talk about it all
day long because it's my job right i i I get paid to listen to Henry call me up
and tell me about how far IP is going to go.
And he's convinced me over the years.
I truly believe that that's where we're going.
Like there is going to be brands
that start from the small,
what we call the echo chamber,
which is crypto Twitter.
There's about 125 of us.
There's some bots in here leo you've
managed to push over the actual participant number of ordinals right now so congrats to that but
there's about 125 of us still here believing in it and but it truly will go somewhere like that
because it totally makes sense from a collectible aspect right like there is no doubt in my mind that at some point when the ips do break
out of our eco chamber there's going to be this huge rush of people coming in and wanting to buy
out the ips because they like the fact that they were here early and they were pushing the narrative
and when that happens it's just going to start this whole thing of collectability and i believe that that's where ordinals are ahead of the game i think that's where it's all going to
start totally makes sense to me so i'm just watching these brands as they build like you say
if this artist's been around and their toys been around for a long time and their ip's been around
they obviously just hit the tipping point the tipping point is exactly like i said it was
probably one phone call with one guy with way too much money who decided you know what this shit is pretty sticky let's
pump it and he just took it to market you know and that's what's going to happen when these big
players come in and they start shopping ips they start looking around what they want to push
there's going to be people coming in going damn these guys been pushing anime since 2021
and they were like the earliest
on chain then they moved to ordinals very early within the first year and now they're still here
five years later and they've got all these animations totally makes sense to pick these up
and activate it and we'll see it roll out you look at ninjas i can watch what shriva's doing
and i know where it's going and I think it will be very successful
because he's just been pushing the IP narrative and there's not too many projects who are actually
sticking to their guns and doing it so that's that's the projects who have my attention those
are the projects so I continue to accumulate and I think it will just age well it could be totally
wrong could just be completely underwater but again you end up with the people who believe in
it and opportunities come from it so as long as you're not overextending yourself don't spend your rent
on it like it's literally the way i do it if i go to another chain and make a trade i might put 25
percent or something into some ip that i enjoy on on the mother chain and then that's how you
should do it don't over risk it just enjoy yourself figure out. If IP hits and if we're in the right spot at the right time in five years, something blows up.
I mean, dude, there are so many people that I know who are positioned insanely well for this.
And we're all thinking and looking at the same vision.
So, yeah, seems like it can't be a coincidence, man.
So many people believe in it.
It's got to go.
NFTs are not going away.
Like, absolutely, NFTs are not going away.
And I agree.
Like, I'm bullish on just the straight IP plays.
I think, you know, there's a lot of companies that sell NFTs to raise money to do something else.
And that's fine.
I think, like, you guys basically making a video game now.
Maybe they're pivoting back to IP, whatever.
I think, like, you know ultimately what i
don't like is you pocket the money and kind of just leave with a ton of money put it towards
something like productive either building the ip building software whatever i think that's awesome
um but yeah i like the straight up ip plays i think there's a shortage of that on bitcoin i
totally agree and i think there's an opportunity to just kind of like look luka nuts i think is sort of the he's like the prime example
the best case study that we have of just like work your ass off you know try to get a bunch
of money work your ass off and then spread the ip outside of this space like it's like you can't
just be building the ip here forever you got like to be a global IP, you can't just target crypto native
people. You have to ultimately go out and make this recognizable. That's obviously Lucas' mission.
He's got billions of impressions on Giphy with the Pudgy Penguins. You can walk in every Walmart
in the US and go buy a Pudgy Penguin. He's making strides there. I think it's, it's a business that's a ton of work. It's, it's very similar to like, you know, Hey, I want to, you know, create a new sports drink,
a new energy drink. It's the same thing as that, right. It's the same sort of,
you have to work your ass off. It's highly competitive. You know, IP is a very competitive
space, but you can go push IP out, um, into the world. I think that's like super bullish. And it's like, you know, Mac, I hope,
I hope Aniforce is able to do that, you know, with maybe some, you know, animated movie at
some point or something like we have to go push our IP outside of just the crypto space. And,
you know, I want to see more teams on Bitcoin just with like that vision of,
hey, I'm going to take this IP, I'm going to build it on Bitcoin, and I'm going to spread
it to the entire world. And I'm just going to relentlessly 16 hours a day go do that and i'm gonna do calls all day long i'm gonna raise money
and go spend the money 100 on this i want to see more of that here i definitely want to see more
of that here um ghost when are we veto when are we getting uh the blind boxes whatever jan said
whatever jan called it where you like don't know what your plushie is that's funny i actually i've hit him up already
about it i i because like that would be seriously sick if you had like a box that was like a generic
box you don't know what's inside it's like a question mark and you get your plushie and then
maybe it's the magic eden dog plushie that you guys just launched you know maybe it'll be an expert plushie that you guys do soon um maybe it's the original dog series zero you know that would be
pretty fun i think that would be like pretty dope if you guys did that 100 and and we actually did
that with the season ones uh it wasn't it wasn't as extreme like being like a total different like
plushie of its own but uh the season ones, they had the hoodie variants.
There was 1,000 in the collection. They're all serialized, of course.
The orange hoodie was about 169 of those. The black hoodie had about 189.
And the remaining were the white hoodies, which were about 669 I believe if I'm not mistaken and and and and it took some time to think
of a way to make it so that it's literally like it's spread out right so
that way the first people that order it don't receive all the orange hoodies
because clearly it was the it was the rare one but aside from that the la
boo boo stuff that he was talking about,
like he's literally like getting quotes right now as we speak to kind of get like a dog version.
And my idea was to basically whatever season we drop, right?
Like there's one with the orange hoodie.
There's one with the black hoodie.
There's season two coming with the cigar in the mouth.
Have those LeBubus but uh the smaller version because
those like the bigger plushies would be collectibles and then down the line what we're gonna do is is
just dumb it down a little bit like a smaller version of it not serialized it doesn't come with
the ordinal and basically have those out uh starting from like small to medium-sized retail
stores and and then just work our way up maybe to like walmart and and
target like that would be the dream man like i'm as much as i'm pumped for dog to go to the moon
like that we're going up so high bro i'm telling you uh vito your your your goal i don't think
walmart is bullish yeah man walmart is not your goal man nah you want to go target or pop mart man
pop art is the game, bro, now.
That's the Kukic's playground, you know?
Oh, Pop Mart, Pop Mart.
You're saying, like, that's just catered to these type of things, though, right?
Yeah, man, it's funny.
Do you guys have Pop Mart in the U.S.? I think they have stores in the U.S., no?
I've only seen it online, to be honest.
I haven't seen it.'s man it's it's brilliant
like i i really you know like i know that they're way too hyped right now but i'm waiting for a dip
and i want to buy some stock in the company because i think it's so fucking cool so in asia
they're really fucking popular and uh they basically they have offline stores like flagship
stores like big ones they obviously sell online as well.
But what they are doing super well is they have these automated machines as well. So in every single shopping mall that you go to, you will have this like mini machine where you can just go pay 20 bucks and get a blind box, you know?
and man like kids are so into this man you wouldn't believe it like it reminds me of like
And man, like kids are so fucking into this shit, man.
You wouldn't believe it.
when i was growing up the that we were doing and i i'm looking back and i think we're so lame you
know because we were collecting some what was what what is the company called like the no no no no
pokemon is no pokemon is cool obviously like, you know, that's another level.
But what we were doing when we were small little kids,
this, what is it?
Like, this chocolate egg.
I forgot what is the name.
This, like, Kinder.
Kinder, Kinder.
Kinder Surprise.
Yeah, that shit.
And, like, you would have the egg,
and then you would get something inside of the egg.
And we thought it was super cool when we were, like, little kids, right?
We were just buying that shit, eating the chocolate
and then like, oh, what did you get in the fucking egg?
And like, so like Popmart is doing that,
but obviously they're doing it at like 100X better product.
Like they're actually like, you know,
trying to build IP and like, you know, cool products.
But it's basically like that.
It's a blind box, you get it and you tear it out
and then you can resell it. And man, like, you know, Vito, you need to basically like that. It's a blind box. You get it and you tear it out and then you can resell it.
And man, like, you know, Vito, you need to get into that.
I don't know what it takes.
Yeah, definitely not Walmart.
But you need to get into that.
You need to get into that.
For sure.
Bro, we're going to, bro.
You know, it's funny.
As long as dog exists, we're going to dominate so bad.
You guys are talking about La Boobers, right?
It's all going to connect.
It's all going to connect together.
Like, it's going to be the plushies. It's going to be the pet hoodies. It's going gonna connect together like it's it's it's gonna be the plushies
It's gonna be the pet hoodies. It's gonna be mining like so so that way we we onboard people to like Bitcoin and just like just
Just run a bit bit axe from your house
Like it's gonna be that like bro
It's gonna be endless levels of stuff and they're all gonna connect together and and and and it's gonna be a net positive for the entire
And they're all gonna connect together and and and and it's gonna be a net positive for the entire ecosystem
That's 100% and and for sure that that's surprising that you're talking about that and then and then the
Collaborations bro think about all the big companies that we could onboard like kind of like a like once once once we're like
Globally known we're kind of like that but in the in the ordinals and Bitcoin space, right?
But imagine what once once we're like big enough, imagine like dog collab with, for example, Kraken or a dog collab with with another company that has nothing to do with the crypto scene.
But they want to get their word out. They want to attract that crowd.
And just it's endless stuff that that we could implement.
implement and man i'm pumped for it i was veto we were talking about this the other day dude like
And, man, I'm pumped for it.
I was Vito. We were talking about this the other day, dude.
basically it's kind of an observation i've had over the past month where the dog meme has turned
into like a template we always kind of did this but it's now become a template where you basically
you leave the dog face and like the couch behind it and stuff right but you you basically take the
clothes off and then you
change it to whatever else. So like the most generic version of this is you just, if it's like
Kraken, you make the hoodie purple and then you put the Kraken logo on the chest instead of the
Bitcoin. And it's like a really simple form factor. CoinMarketCap just did it like a couple
days ago. HTX, the intern from their main account, tweeted out, you know, a naked dog.
So stripped off the hoodie completely. It's just naked dog.
And then Vito, you know, is out here with like Magic Eden doing like a black hoodie with the Magic Eden logo.
It's a clear form factor that like it's very easy and is basically applicable to every brand.
Like you could scale this to literally any company, any brand, any blockchain, and it looks dope.
And I think the best part about it is, like, Dog is like, you know, it's like a positive, like, you know, it's family friendly.
Like, any gender likes it.
Any age can like it.
It's a friendly. Any gender likes it. Any age can like it. It's a positive message.
And we call this mid-curve.
But to me, mid-curve is very bullish because it means a lot more people can be interested in it, not just a group of edgy trolls on Twitter and crypto Twitter.
To me, it's a great thing to associate your brand with.
And yeah, it's like a cute puppy and
like everybody likes cute puppies. So I'm interested in seeing ghosts, Vito, I'm interested
in seeing you collaborate with more projects, more companies in the space, and just doing more
limited edition drops that are basically collabs. I think like, you know, that's the model going
forward is doing a collab with each new drop. and then i'm excited to see more people just meme with different like you know crack and tweet it out the purple hoodie
one for example like i want to see more exchanges tweet out their version of dog i think it's pretty
fun i dig it i dig it and uh the the meme the kind of template for the meme is there we just
have to kind of continue to. Bro, and another thing,
so here's a little alpha.
I made good friends with the solo Satoshi guys.
They're the ones behind Bitaxe.
They're basically retailing it off.
It's definitely in the works,
but we put a little milestone with them.
I said, look, we need to bring at least 600 giga hashes of mash,
of 600 giga hashes of mining or hash rate to the dog of Bitcoin mining pool.
Once that's there, we're dropping a limited edition, like plushie drop.
And each plushie will come with a BitX miner and it'll have like its own like logo.
with a bit X minor and it'll, it'll have like its own like logo and all bro.
We're gonna, we're, we're gonna dominate.
Like there there's, there's no freaking way like we're, we're gonna be stale and
we're just gonna be like, just treated as like a meme coin.
Vito, nobody out here is thinking you're gonna be stale, man.
Like you've been, you've been doing crazy stuff in the past year and I don't,
I've never heard someone say that they're worried that Vito's run out of ideas and stuff,
man.
So I look,
I want,
I don't want to just talk about Doug too much on the show.
I know execute had their hand up a moment ago.
What's up,
bro.
It was funny that you guys were talking about the boo,
my girlfriend,
we live in Asia and she was talking to somebody yesterday.
What the fuck is this?
This is just beaming beanie babies,
like meets Pokemon. But what did she say? I'm like, what the fuck is this? This is just Beanie Babies, like, meets Pokemon.
But, uh...
What did she say? I'm curious, like, what was her take?
She just brought it up because, like, all the girls over here, like,
they're just wearing them, and they've been buying...
Wait, they're wearing them?
Yeah, so, like, it all started from, uh, what kind of Jen was talking about,
and then some K-pop star was wearing, like, this little...
It's pretty much just a Beanie Baby with like a little keychain thing right and this pop star k-pop star put it on like her purse
so now all the women have like their purse with their little the boo-boo uh it's a little teddy
it's pretty much just beanie babies 2.0 but and and you like yeah you buy one it's like 25 bucks
or something stupid maybe 120 for one and then you unwrap it
and there's like six different rare ones and like the basic ones and whatever and uh yeah it's it's
they're charging 120 dollars per one of these but you want to buy them by like the case it's a it's
it's a ponzi the way they made it right you gotta buy like six of them for like i think i think for
a pack of six or eight it was like 600 something bucks i don't even know the six of them for like, I think, I think for a pack of six or eight,
it was like 600 something bucks.
I don't even know the price of them.
Over here, it's like, there's the real ones, there's the fake ones, there's the whatever,
but...
There's already fake ones?
Oh, dude.
Okay, so this is...
When I was in Asia, do you know how fast Asians do?
The day Donald Trump got shot, I seen t-shirts within like an hour of like Trump's hand up in the air like man these guys waste no time over here like they're fucking on it
But uh, yeah, I was gonna say um
Earlier I wanted to talk about like the whole runes thing
Are you guys ever gonna change the name?
Like can we just make it something else except runs?
So we had a major community vote
and called it bitcoin meme coins and then we had another community vote and changed it back to
ruins and then now nobody knows what it is oh my god it's the same thing with like 404s erc 21 and
erc 1155 right like don't call it that yo yo when y'all say that shit my eyes glazed over i still
don't know the difference between any of that stuff. That's actually not true.
I do know the difference, unfortunately.
But, like, would you go to a normie and be like,
do you ever, like, teach the normie, like, Guys, I'm so bullish on ERC 117324.
Yeah, yeah.
No, you don't.
You just say it's in fucking meme coin.
No, buy the fucking dog.
Let's go launch out.
Buy the dog coin.
Let's go launch out ERC 20 on Solana.
No, let's just go launch a meme coin. That's all on salona no it's just let's go launch a meme coin that's all it is yeah go to pump fun launch a meme coin don't go to
fucking erc 11 432 you know yeah i think runes does have runes like let's let's just do a little
retro what worked well with runes and what didn't work well so my biggest pet peeve that I told Casey on this show six months before Runes came
out was like, dude, do not do this long, unique ticker bullshit. It's the dumbest idea of all time.
Okay. Literally instantly when dog drops, our coin market cap was different. Like we like,
I had to fight coin gecko for like months and coin market cap for like weeks. And, you know,
I was like, guys, we are dog.
We are not dog go to the moon.
Dog go to the moon is the basically contract address essentially for dog.
Nobody's going to buy a token called dog go to the moon and all cats with weird periods
in between.
Like that is going to scale to about 10,000 ordinals people max.
And, uh, you know, basically we've successfully migrated away from that model i think like
i did like an audit of the top 20 rooms and every single branded twitter account
i think it was like two of them even mentioned the ticker in the bio the on chain long ticker
and the rest of them just picked a new ticker call it this shorter name i know uh i think
magic eden now has switched to the shorter tickers that were
community decided y'all and i believe expert x first uses the shorter tickers now too
obviously it's certain coins not every coin um but like the tickers was a disaster it was like
there was really in my opinion no benefit to the long tickers and just pert rooms like i'm just
gonna be honest and you know i'll tell casey that to his face i told him a year and a half ago i'll say it again now um but yeah yeah as far as like
what else you know some things went really right i would say the ticker's not even like that big
of a thing i would say it's kind of customary because it gives us like a diversification
compared to like other networks so like when
you see the little dots you kind of know it's bitcoin right but when it's just like a regular
thing you don't know what the fucking network it is so it's kind of gives it that custom feel but
for me it's the fact of like minting like i'm fucking sick and tired of just minting and then
giving funds to the miner like every time you mint a shitcoin or a rune it should have just been like
you know make your protocol, whatever.
And then the entire supply goes up for sale.
And every time somebody buys X amount, that goes into like a, you know, a counter trade or a liquidity pool or something.
I know there's only order books over here, but like an order book of like, okay, this person bought this much for that one.
Now that BTC is sitting like somewhere to counter trade.
If somebody wants to sell you
can go call that and sell for that much or something you know that way we're just not
constantly giving money to the miners over and over again because we're already giving my uh
money to the miners just by doing the transactions so you're doing the transaction then you're doing
the transaction again to like do all the the splitting and all that other it's like
and you're giving them free tokens
just from missing a shit coin it's like why don't we just buy the shit coin and then have actual
liquidity instead of just giving up the miners i do i do feel you there's pros and cons to the
model and like i don't want to say too much but there are definitely teams working on basically
improving that situation so you're not just sending funds to the miners.
And I think, yeah, like runes, when I paint a picture in my head of like, what is a successful
runes protocol?
When I say runes protocol, what I'm really talking about is what does a successful fungible
token ecosystem on Bitcoin look like?
The standard just happens to be
ruins, right? Just like ERC-20 on Ethereum. You need some large, at least two or three
billion dollar plus tokens that are like clearly above a billion on the homepage of CoinMarketCap.
Right now, if you're a $680 million market cap, you are on the homepage of CoinMarketCap.
680 million dollar market cap you are on the home page of coin market cap we need like two or three
coins on the home page of coin market cap around a billion or above a billion okay that are like
flagships where it's not you really don't just want one like i want to see other runes succeed
for this to be healthy right i don't want it to just be dog that's not like runes is not in a
healthy state right now with dog you know half the half the value or something. I want to see a lot of successful runes.
And then you want to see, you know, on the other end of the spectrum and also for runes
to be healthy, we need more centralized exchange integrations with runes, more listings, like
the liquidity.
Like if you look at Ordi right now, Ordi does like three times the volume of dog every day
because they're listed on like six tier one exchanges, including Binance, right? And all those exchanges have 300 million users. They do market
making, they do all this stuff. And like, we just need more volume, need more buy buttons for runes.
That is like one aspect. And like, that's a job for the top runes to go do that. Okay.
On the other end of the spectrum, we need a healthy trenches. And what does a healthy trenches look like?
It means that like every week there's like a meme coin or a new token that people are
excited about that started at nothing.
And there's people paying attention to new runes.
And there's like a vibrant opportunity to have a runner that goes to 10 or 20 or 30
or a hundred million dollars.
Like that is healthy.
And it needs to not be a
culture that rugs, right? It has to be a culture that does not tolerate rugging. So basically
the pump fun aspect of Solana of we're getting lots of new tokens. So there's something exciting
to pay attention to, but without the rugging. Okay. And like, you know, it's not like there
can literally be no rugging, but there's much less rugging and a culture that tries not to support the rugging situations.
If we can have those two ends of the spectrum and then what will end up happening is there will be a nice gradient in between of $50 million tokens and $100 million and $200 million.
That's what helped that.
Like, that is what is the optimal equation that I think we can achieve in the short term. Obviously,
long term, you know, what does the Web3 economy on a $2 trillion blockchain look like? The vision
is massive. But I'm talking about like, theoretically, literally during RuneJune,
we could get to this point if we all rallied around it. And, you know, there's some cool
stuff coming down the pipeline that companies are launching, guys. I get to talk to basically everybody building in Ruins.
The developer mindshare of Ruins is like, honestly, it's absolutely unbelievable.
And like every couple of weeks, a new team will reach out to me that's been like cooking for an entire year that is about to drop something.
The user experience for Ruins is like getting way, way better on Bitcoin L1, like full stop.
It's going
to get better there's been a lot of focus on the trading there's going to be some new improvements
around the creation aspect as well pretty soon guys which is awesome and then you've also got
you know kraken the first tier one exchange you know listening dog like we're making progress on
both ends of the spectrum you do not want to turn into this person that just sits on complete on
twitter and complains all day long and like fights with each other this gets us nowhere this gets of the spectrum, you do not want to turn into this person that just sits on Twitter and
complains all day long and fights with each other.
This gets us nowhere.
This gets Bitcoin and this ecosystem and ordinals and runes nowhere.
We have to go build the future.
We have to go onboard millions of people to this space.
We all have our part to do.
Specifically, dog, our goal is to go to the moon.
If we go to the moon, an absolute metric shit ton of people
are going to go download Xverse, and they're going to go buy ordinals, PFPs, and they're going to want
to buy other Bitcoin meme coins. And the runes protocol is going to get more integrations with
centralized exchanges, which then makes it easier for, you know, the rune that gets created tomorrow
to then have an on-ramp to go to a billion dollars. And there's a role that we all play here.
And the puppets, their role is to kind of be like the Mladies
and make ordinals and runes cool
for the kind of crypto-native, kind of edgy,
kind of cool kids like that, right?
We all have a role to play here.
And yeah, we need to work together.
We need to have a positive sum mindset and we need to go basically build out and scale
what we're doing here.
We're on the cusp of something very exciting.
I think this idea that like runes are dead is dumb.
You know, the top pump fun coin, like, you know, one of the top beam coins in Solana
fart coin that has like the most mind share is just double the market cap of dog guys.
This is not like Solana's like way crushed
runes or something like actually relatively to the mindshare that Solana has. I think runes is
doing fucking incredible and we have to go basically scale that and we're so close and we
just have to keep working guys. Like do not give up. You can, you know, you can capitulate, you can
sell your bags, you can just bitch and complain on Twitter all day, or we can go on board people and build out this ecosystem.
And if enough of us just grind on that every single day, wake up, tweet about dog,
wake up, talk about your ordinal sclection on Twitter.
Vincent's making YouTube videos.
Vito is making plushies.
J-Dog's making merch.
Mac is out here spreading the word about Aniforce.
You know, Jan is basically making it safe to hold runes and ordinals, which is one of the big issues that people have complained about in the past, right?
You know, Gunto is, like, trying to integrate the Wall Street Bets community into our space.
Cynthia literally hosts a Twitter space every single night.
Let's stop just complaining and fighting against each other and go out and actually just do this shit.
And if enough people focus and work on this every single day,
yeah, we're going to onboard a ton of people here
and all these assets are going to go up in value a lot.
What's up, Vincent?
I absolutely agree with you.
And I just, if you don't mind, I'd like to add something on top of that.
There are very small voices that are trying to shake up a big crowd.
And these little voices are amplified if you give them your attention or your mind share.
So there are some people on the space right now that I'm not going to name that I think personally are giving too much attention to people that are negative for the space.
And I think that these people should veer away from that and focus a lot of your energy that could be used to do something good and avoid giving that to somebody else.
This happens in every single space.
This happens in every single space.
I remember when Solana was being flooded to the brink of extinction, when the FTX and
Alameda Research Collapse happened, and people said that Solana was dead, and NFTs were dead,
and meme coins on Solana were dead.
All of a sudden, when things were absolutely low at their peak, when Solana was $8, when
all these NFT collections on Solana were at at their peak low and meme coins for that matter as well people bought in to that fear when no one was
paying attention right so right now when you're seeing ordinals at their lowest that i've seen so
far you can you can say like oh yeah like maybe eventually ruins will get their run or maybe
other people see a meme coin run on different ecosystems and then rotate those funds back into this ecosystem.
But we cannot forget that there's also a crowd of Bitcoin speculators or maybe some other mysterious entity who's going to buy when you're not looking.
So ordinals will have their pump.
It just won't be when you're not looking. So Orinals will have their pump. It just won't be when
retail will expect it.
When it comes to
runes and dog, I do
agree that many of you are absolutely right
that this is right now the most powerful
play because you can onboard so many more
people compared to an Orinal
collection which has a limited supply.
So obviously a lot more traction is going to
happen for runes. And I just, yeah, I just want to kind of top it off by just ending it with you please just be
very careful where you put your amount of energy and time into somebody who's not even there for
you from the beginning because in a way you're feeding into that into that fear and that makes
them stronger and it makes them more relevant to a conversation when they shouldn't be. So just be very careful when people FUD anything about runes or ordinals,
just ignore them. They want your attention. Don't give that to them and just focus on yourself
and focus on what you could be building. That's what I mainly do. And right now when people talk
about, you know, FUDing runes or whatever, that's not on my timeline because I don't attract that.
out you know fighting runes or whatever that's not on my timeline because i don't attract that
so attract the things that you want for yourself and on your timeline and i think in the end you
will ultimately be more focused and clear-minded on what you should be getting into so yeah i just
want to end it there yeah i mean i don't know i don't actually think they found a use case for
runes yet i was talking to an artist the other day and they wanted to make an ordinal collection and it was kind of like just basic runestone 3D object and I told them like
not to do it on ordinals and just to make the one single on rune and then have it as like a token
instead of like doing airdrops and all that because you could just make it on a rune and
then it's already fractionalized and it's's way cheaper. And, like, kind of what Leo was talking about earlier.
Like, you don't really need ordinals anymore, because you can build it all right on runes.
If you wanted to just do, like, the ERC 1-1-5-5 kind of collection.
It's just one single thing everything points to, and then you got all your shakwins built on top of it, right?
Yeah, for trading for trading that definitely works
like people who do rare pepe's trading cards i think runes are probably better than ordinals
for that um use case and i definitely agree with that ordinals are good when you have a specific
you know you want to hold one piece of art and one person holds it that's what nfts are good for
repeat cards yeah 100 love those guys um but what i was going to say is what you just said
is the exact problem we have in ordinals right now it's like the the limited participants
it's so hard like you could do well on day one you could do well on day two into the first two
weeks and then the attention leaves and your supply is too big and inevitably
people over leverage themselves and the floor crashes it's just what it is at the moment
there's not enough people willing to hold and continuously participate and stay within the
one community so it's like if you're doing ordinals right now make sure you make sure you
get out and you talk to the right people you talk to the guys who have been here forever and you get the right advice you want to like build if it's an art drop the supply needs
to be very small like i said earlier there's about 130 collectors in the space i'm not even
fucking kidding you that's how many there are like true collectors the ones who are in every
server buying the one of an art still not expecting profit there's not many of us so like you whatever
your product you need to
really think about it and make sure you talk with the right people first and that was the difference
back in the day when ordinal started founders dms were open right there wasn't that's not the same
on every other like chain it's just not you can't go and dm luke and nets no way you're not getting
through you can't go and dm these big time founders on other chains because they've already been
through this stuff.
They've already made it into the next bracket.
At the start of Ordinals, you could.
It was the early movers.
It was the people who were exploring the tech.
And it was the people who are here for Art on Chain.
And you could go through.
You could talk to everyone.
Everyone was vibes.
Projects were selling out.
People were sticking around.
You could get heaps of the each each
project because there wasn't too many people fighting for a spot it's changed now we're in
the next sort of era it's it's gone through the whole eth onboarding it was like puppets come with
the mog sunnies obviously that bring the mog uh meme clean over. And then we had this huge rush.
The supplies could be that size.
There was far more people using this stuff and collecting it, whatever, trading it.
Now we're back in like the very calm, dead space
of like, if you're going to do something,
you need to really think about it
and you need to think about who you're targeting
as your EV collector or flipper or whatever.
And it needs to be a small supply. So exactly like you said, execute. need to think about who you're targeting as your ev collector or or flipper or whatever and it and
it needs to be a small supply so exactly like you said execute like if someone's talking to me now
i do steer them away unless it's like strictly art because it just doesn't make sense in this
in this market it works both ways i think small supplies good too but with like the runes type of
thing if i got a shit ton of like whatever artist uh rune plus the art in
my wallet like and i just want to give it to my buddy to give like some some of him the art i just
do the transfer and then send him one token and then he's got like the art in his wallet too you
know it's just if we can get if that artist wanted to build a whole collection around it
and kind of have that collection listed as like an ordinal collection.
That's like probably the next step of just having like a rune collection as ordinals,
you know, that way like you can see the whole collection of the artist under the runes.
And then that way, like collectors collect and traders trade and if liquidity pools come that's just uh you know
extra extra good stuff for the future yeah if somebody wants to go create a platform that
i definitely think would like add value to the space that nobody's working on
is go create the erc 1155 launch pad that's like very easy to launch a rune-based kind of collectible
art trading card style collection where, you know, rare pepes I think is like a really great example
of it's, I've had a lot of fun collecting rare pepes. We just don't really have too much of that.
I think there's people, I think Gizmo has like a kind of fun, like there's like a Bitcoin puppets
kind of version of this, but like
it shouldn't be this like crazy technical thing you have to go figure out. I think someone should
be able to like create a launchpad and basically just make it feel like, okay, you're going to
create this one, you're going to create this collection, but the collection is ultimately
just a hundred images. And then each one, you know, is a run rune but it's not thought of as like a traditional rune
it's basically just like a fractionalized uh nfp and make it where you know on rare pepes you can
you know one rare pepe there'll be a supply of just 300 and you can only own you know 300 300
people will ever own it right but then there's also people that can hold, there's one that has a supply of a
billion and you can hold, you know, 1 billion units of it. It's very trivially, like very,
very easy to do this with runes. And it allows your collection to basically be successful with
a small number of people and then grow into, you know, if a million people want to collect it,
it's totally easy to do that as well. And I'd like to see some more trading card. Basically, it works
really nice for certain art collections, memes, trading cards. I think this is like a missing
piece. We have meme coins. We've got one of ones. We've got kind of standard 10K PFP format.
We do not have the ERC-1155. We have the tech now with runes you don't really need to
think about it as runes you don't need to even use the word rune somebody should just go create
that launchpad i think it's like definitely uh be a fun new meta and i would like absolutely support
it well i just pinned up something up top so like this is on topic and obviously like we we know we know dogs dogs are the dog so any rune moving is is good
press but this isn't the rune show this is what you're talking about so like if you look at this
world peace cards this is something that i'm actually more into than runes because i'm an
art collector like at heart um i don't you know the other stuff is just icing on top. But that's why I'm here.
So when I found this, it actually refueled my love for runes.
So I was collecting these earlier on and I've pinned it up top.
You guys should check it out.
It's just a community led thing where any artist in the space.
So for example, like Donnie from from fomojis he's got a card
in here it's like a flaming giz uh gizmer like those cards are getting brought up by people who
know how much donnie's done for the space so like the other day i i swept donnie's card floor right
and i did that because i'm betting on donnie knowing his passion for the space and i know
he's going to be around forever so if
anything happens within the art space like that's a piece that someone should get these things are
going for like 80 bucks and it's it's it's a rune through the ordex right what's that sorry
they're through ordex no no so these are these were dropping on gamma it's like a community experience um like the gizmo
the gizmo community has a whole heap of artists right and they all originated from the puppet
community and they were just having fun and they were doing these mimetic art pieces and then
i believe it was bit god who had the idea at the time to start doing like a rear pepe version of
gizmo and it was like damn that's sticky idea let's see to start doing like a rear Pepe version of Gizmo. And it was like,
damn,
that's sticky idea.
Let's see what happens.
They caught a bit of traction,
whole heap of artists come in.
Everything vibes were high.
The floors were pumping and whatnot.
It was profitable for flippers.
Now it's like runes obviously have the huge nuke that they did.
Only the true collectors are sticking around so
there's been dudes who are just accumulating these throughout the down period and when runes
come back these are runes not ordinals no no these are ordinals but they're obviously tied
like to the rune community via the character so it's like a way that the two spaces can merge together it's like um what you're saying is you
you're saying that these cards should have like an enabled like trade function where runes travel
wherever right is that what you were saying that's not the technically correct way to do this is
basically you create a rune okay you could mint it you could airdrop it, you could just sell it to people in a launchpad, however you want to distribute it. When you create a rune, you can inscribe,
you can have the reveal for an inscription in the same transaction. And then that's how you tie,
like if you go to any runes explorer, you'll see that there's, you know, certain runes like
dog go to the moon has an inscription tied
to it. That's on the protocol tied to that. So you can create an inscription, but instead of
having it be owned by the sat, you have it be the rune that's attached to it, associated to it in
the same transaction. So that's the model that like just makes a lot more sense from a trading
perspective. It does not make sense to track sats for fungible like fractionalized of an asset it just technically speaking it's
inefficient it doesn't make sense you want to do it with a room i just don't know if it will move
the needle like i'm pretty sure um octoglyphs did it and like there was a fire collection snoop
toshi put out him and his boys put out like the the artwork they've got
stuff on web 2 app stores like a game it's all go it just doesn't move the needle i think
what we're really looking for here is like i think it's like character activation and the gizmo
community did the world peace cards the world peace cards blended in with the puppets and it
sort of went viral and now it's like this fun collectability stuff that's what i think we need
and like i think it's about characters dog has dog right billy is is the cat um notice me senpai is
like the waifu for for a lot of us who minted you you've got gizmo who's like this funny puppet
looking thing it's all of these characters and then it's like
The reason re-pepe did so well. I don't think it's the fact that it's
It's got all the the back end on chain stuff
I think it's more so the character the memetics and like the collectability
So that's why I was referencing the wild peace cards. It's pokemon cards. Yeah
100% dude, that's it just
Pokemon cards 2.0 or% dude, that's it. Pokemon cards, 2.0.
Ordex.
Yeah, exactly.
Same thing.
I don't know if it's the same collection,
but to put this together,
like the whole ERC-1155,
all you'd have to do is allow the rune to be indexed into a collection, right?
So you can just index your own runes
and then make that a collection.
That's all you'd have to really do to make it.
You could even use parent-child provenance.
Because remember, it's tied to an inscription.
So you could have a parent inscription and do a bunch of children under that.
And each child is an inscription that's revealed in a rune etching.
And then now the rune is the ownership of it.
You would obviously burn the inscription.
But I mean, if I was to go to Word.io and type in like my collection or my rune collection
name,
I would want to see like all my cards there.
So I'd have to index the whole,
like all the runes that I created.
Yeah.
Would you guys be 100%?
I think like the order of operations here,
isn't necessarily for explorers to support something that nobody's doing.
You need a launch pad to make it easy to create these things in a standard.
There's no one doing this today.
So like what would be indexed, right?
But if you have a rune, if you have a launch pad that allows you to just launch in this
style, you don't really even need to use the word ordinals and runes.
It's just like drag and drop, drop your image behind the scenes.
It inscribes it.
It does the rune.
It does everything.
And then you can basically buy the, you can, you know, buy the pieces or you can airdrop
them or have them go to a wallet, whatever, and then distribute them somehow like that.
Kickstart that, like get some people incentivize.
Don't you already think that you could do that through just like whatever it's called?
Lin, what's that token launcher for runes?
I fucking forgot the name.
Ludix or whatever it's called.
You can absolutely do it.
There's no question that you can absolutely do it.
It's more just like, yeah, like somebody actually has to go start.
Luminex, right?
And make a way to view it right
it's just the index that like no you can't index it and then update it to your site right because
your site and magic he only recognizes ordinals as ordinals and then runes as runes so if you go
to ord.io there's a runes tab and you can see all of the runes that you hold and how many runes you hold so i like they would not be in a collection if i type in a dog and there was like
two like if you launched another ticker and you want a dog to be in a collection with another
ticker that's all you'd like you'd have to index both tickers so they could be in a collection
instead it's just an individual rune.
Yeah, you need to group the runes.
You basically need a feature called rune grouping,
and I would say you do that through the inscription parent.
So you would basically, like if we were going to do it on ord.io,
we would just say, okay, any rune that has an inscription that has a parent
will group it together into that parent,
and then we would basically just need to say, okay, this parent has no name,
but we can then go in and just like we do with existing collections,
add metadata or add a name and have a collection page for it.
You could definitely do that.
Dope, dope. I like it.
I think there's a huge, like, think about it like this.
Like, used to create tokens on Ethereum and Solana and stuff,
like, you would go to Google and type in how to launch an Ethereum fungible token,
how to launch, you know, a meme coin on Solana.
And prior to pump fund, like, this is, like, no joke what you did.
You Googled it. It would take you to a Medium article. There would be like seven steps. It
would show you how to deploy a smart contract. You would go to a platform like Etherscan or some
site. You would copy paste the contract that they showed you. You would like find the three lines
where you would change the name. You would change the supply. You'd change the address that they go
to. And then you would deploy the contract. It would cost like 200 bucks. And then you would just create a token on Solana or Ethereum, right?
PumpFun comes along and there's a front end, there's a GUI, which is like very important.
And you just type in the ticker name and you drag and drop the image and then you click a button
for free, you've launched the token, token right that is what something like this needs you
like the difference between that it might not seem that crazy but like the difference between that
and doing a smart contract deploying way that you read about how to do in a medium article
it's a massive difference on how successful the thing will be and like you are we already have
it for normal like launching runes launching ordinals they're already using the launch pad
gui for that.
Nobody's created the GUI for the 11.55, basically.
And I'm saying somebody should go do that because it really, it's hard to make it a thing unless you have the Launchpad.
Easy, easy, easy, easy way to do it.
Leo, quick question, bro, before I forget.
When will we be able to see like the actual price
on the rooms like that's such a useful feature like the the usd value or or btc it doesn't matter
but when i go to ordio i i don't see that yet is that something that's in the works and on the way
like i literally have to go to luminex but i'd rather use ordio uh yeah so we're working on we've been working
on something for a long time um that we haven't released yet and uh you know that's the focus
right now but yeah it does have to do with runes and um that's the focus so and yeah i think jan just maybe rugged there um we've been going for a good two hours now i don't
know if anybody else has uh topics you guys want to bring up any any other conversation topics
you can get jan back up here and see if you wants to. Do you guys know anything about the new .swap feature where you could self-custody whatever liquidity you want to provide to them?
I thought that was really cool.
I kind of just browsed over the video and I'm stoked because I had some good amount of liquidity on there
and then it was making good amount of money, but I was just freaked out.
Like, okay, do I leave this on there?
And then I just one day, back then when Runtoshi hadn't shown his true colors,
he told me, yo, just move it from there.
You don't know who's behind it.
You don't know what's what.
And then he kind of got me thinking.
And the next day, I just pulled the plug.
But that's something really exciting, actually.
You literally spin it off of your own node, something like that.
Yeah.
So Casey, about three months ago, released a podcast with Aaron.
about three months ago released a podcast with Aaron and they talked about agentic,
basically agentic ways to essentially create programmability on Bitcoin. And the way it works
is you run your own Bitcoin node that runs wallet software and runs what is basically kind of like
a smart contract logical software and anybody can talk to it. And in this case, basically the architecture of what
dot swap build is using this dot swap will aggregate. They'll be like the middleman.
So you would say, okay, I want to buy a million, I want to buy a million or I want to spend 0.1
BTC to buy some dog. Right. And you would send the transaction kind of request initiation
to Dotswap. They would then route to a specific liquidity pool. What that specifically means is
they have a network of market makers who basically are running a piece of software that they've
provided for them. And then that would autonomously just be a server somewhere with a Bitcoin node running on it and a wallet and a bunch of dog and a bunch of Bitcoin.
And then it would create a P it would say, OK, somebody wants to do a point one BTC swap right now at this price for BTC dog.
They would send it into the liquidity pool and say that server would then say,
okay, like I'm willing to do that.
It would create a PSPT.
It would then give it back to dot swap.
Dot swap would give it back to the end user.
The end user would sign it.
It would get broadcasted.
Why this is awesome.
There's two reasons.
You can't snipe these things.
Okay.
Because it's both sides signing at the same time.
There was a coordination issue before where Casey was always like, why can't we just do
fix the sniping by having both people talk to each other?
The problem is two people are never online at the same time to do a swap.
The agent solves that programmatically.
You just say, I'm going to put a bunch of dog and a bunch of Bitcoin in this wallet.
And then I'm going to basically do swaps.
I'll sign PSPTs and create transactions from this based on a set of rules.
And basically those set of rules basically map to a liquidity pool.
And then dot swap will basically route you orders.
And then you will create the PSPTs and then they get signed.
So it's a really dope model.
I think this is the future of like L1 trading on Bitcoin
for runes and
Yeah, I want to see you know, they haven't I don't think they've actually launched it yet
They've released the architecture they've called it they branded it as dot swap nexus and
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing you know that get integrated into the other aggregators like X versus
Obviously X versus kind of like think of it as like the Jupiter, right? It's like an aggregator. I want to see it get integrated
and become a popular way to provide liquidity. It was already, the model already worked nicely
for the traders. The issue that I always had with it was like, man, this just does not scale because
if you really want to seriously have liquidity pools on Bitcoin L1 and, you know,
have a hundred billion, like, you know, dog is worth billions of dollars. You have a liquidity
pool of a hundred million dollars. That is just such a disaster. Just sitting there, um, signing
these transactions constantly, um, in a server somewhere, you know, somebody is going to get
rugged sending all of your Bitcoin to a trusted company like that. And basically, this solves that. So this,
you know, I'm very happy with this architecture. Shout out to Casey for kind of proposing it and
stirring on the idea and then shout out for DotSwap for implementing it. And then, you know,
this needs to go live. But I think this is a scalable solution to having deep liquidity on
Bitcoin, right? It's obviously trustless for the market makers, but what it
really solves, like the end benefit to users is like, because users, when you guys are buying
tokens, you don't care if the market maker gets rugged or not. There's no risk on your side,
right? When you swap an X-verse right now with dot swap, it's a PSPT. You're going to get the
exact dog that you say. There's no risk for you. The issue is the market makers. People like Vito
do not want to provide their dog as liquidity because they're just sending their dog to some random company that they don't really trust or know, right?
So this solves that, and it's going to unlock a lot deeper liquidity.
And basically, when you look at the models, the order book model that Magic Eden has been doing versus dot swap model that's more popular inside of Xverse when you swap, from a user experience perspective, the dot swap model is much better,
right? You just put in the exact amount of dog you want to get or swap or BTC, and then you do
the swap. Nobody wants to be buying these little NFT packages, right? That just doesn't, it doesn't
fit. People have complained about that forever. So it solves that. That's like the biggest win.
And then it's trustless. There's no sniping. And now the market making is decentralized and permissionless and trustless.
That is the kind of unlock that this architecture needed and that I've complained about.
And basically, yeah, we're like the end user benefit is going to be you're going to go
to experts.
You're going to say, I want to buy five BTC of dog.
And now a whale can do that.
Prior, if you went, you know, like Even right now, quite frankly, if you go to
Xverse and try to buy 0.25 Bitcoin worth of dog, one Bitcoin worth of dog, you're going to move
the market a lot. It would be much smarter for you to go to gate.io where there's a centralized
exchange with more liquidity. To scale on-chain trading on Bitcoin L1, you need deeper liquidity. Otherwise, people are just going to move to
off-chain liquidity that's much deeper, right? So, you know, Xverse is great right now. DotSwap
is great right now. You can buy, you know, runes on L1. It's great right now. But when you start
to hit around $10,000, just like you're losing money by not going to Gate.io or some other
exchange, right? So this solves that problem. I think it's a pretty key unlock. And I'm hoping dollars just like you're losing money by not going to gate.io or some other exchange right
so this solves that problem i think it's a pretty key unlock and i'm hoping that we'll have you know
tens and then hundreds of millions of dollars of liquidity for ruins
on bitcoin at one which is going to be a huge upgrade for you know the people that want to trade
on that one nice yeah that that answered a lot of questions. I'm pretty stoked. They had reached out to
us at the booth. Just haven't had the time to speak to them. It was actually like the
founder, I believe the founder or the co-founder. So now that you tell me this, like I'm pretty
stoked to talking to him and seeing what we could do, maybe work out like a cool campaign for Dog, of course, and take it from there.
Yeah, I'm excited about this too.
Like I'm actually going to be talking with them today.
I want them to show me a demo how it actually looks like in real life, you know,
because I haven't had a chance to play around with it myself.
But yeah, if it really works the way as Leonidas is describing,
if it's going to be working flawlessly in this regard, I think it's great.
So, you know, I'm going to learn about it more today.
And, you know, then maybe in the future,
we should probably have them again on the show and like talk about it further.
Can I add here that I had quite a few discussions with the founding team of DotSwap.
And these guys, besides the great solution, I've probably never met so aligned minds in the industry, in this space.
Like, we were having a two-hour discussion, and we would complete each other's sentences.
Even the approach they took, even the fact that they are so far self-funded and they are so focused on development.
No, because really, one thing I appreciate and people don't appreciate enough is that there are projects out there who decided to first deliver,
There are projects out there who decided to first deliver, to first create the solution,
and then address the market with a ready or almost ready-to-use product.
If you look at other cases, people just start with promises, and the promises keep scaling,
and we are two years in the waiting and nothing happens.
So these guys are really serious.
And, well, I cannot reveal too much, but you should expect a lot in the near future.
Yeah, it's interesting, right?
Like, Casey kind of, I don't, yeah, we don't need to get too into the weeds here because a lot of people probably don't care about this.
But basically, we've kind of known for a while that, like, L1 trading of runes has had issues, right?
Every single person in this space admits that.
And my answer to that always was,
look, we're going to have to apply a lot of time
and energy and developer resources
to trying to improve it, you know, 1% a week,
just make it better and better and better.
And eventually we'll break through there.
In the meantime, we also need to be trading on the L2s,
trading on Solana, trading in centralized exchanges,
getting liquidity in so these tokens are worth something, so that, you know, then there's a
reason to trade on L1 as well, right? So, we've got to push, it's a multifaceted approach,
we have to push in many different directions, and basically, DotSwap, I think think does have a pretty pretty cool model here that i'm excited about and
specifically if you guys recall casey um there is a way to do kind of like amms on bitcoin l1
as part of the meta protocol you would basically have to upgrade runes
as a meta protocol to allow for this right and there's other meta protocols like alkanes and
track and uh like arch and stuff that are going to have AMMs.
This actually achieves the same end user experience, but it doesn't ultimately require the MEV aspect to be an issue, which is what Casey's complaint always was the MEV.
So when you guys sign that PSPT, that's just between you and
.swap. And basically, it kind of solves the MEV thing. So Casey's kind of like gotten what he
wanted, where it's like runes are going to have, you know, there's like BRC 2.0, I think is doing
the same thing where they're upgrading in a way that's going to basically have MEV. This way
doesn't have the MEV, which is pretty cool. And yeah, I'm looking forward to
seeing this model kind of play out. And I think Rune's buying and selling on Bitcoin L1
will functionally be the same user experience as it is buying on an AMM on Solana with the key
difference that there will be 10 minute block times and that you
will have, you know, to pay a little bit higher fees because we're on Bitcoin 01. But the actual
interface, we've now matched it in a permissionless manner. That's super exciting. It took, you know,
a year and a half of development to get to this point. But yeah, I like this model personally over
what BRC 2.0 is doing and what some of these other meta protocols are doing.
This is pretty badass.
They're going to have to deal with MEB in this one.
So yeah, runes are doing pretty good.
Personally, this is probably the most exciting thing that's happened to runes in a long time.
So I'm bullish for it.
We obviously have to actually go do it and get the liquidity.
But I'm looking forward to going to X-First and being able to
type in 5BTC. And for a half billion dollar token, you shouldn't be moving the market that
much with a $500,000 buy. On Solana, you're not moving the market very much buying $500,000 of
a token that's worth half a billion dollars. On Bitcoin, you literally can't do it. The liquidity
You literally can't do it.
The liquidity is not there.
is not there. You would have a thousand X increase in the price or whatever, right?
You would have a thousand X increase in the price or whatever.
So yeah, that's very, very exciting.
And we have to go do it, but I think it's going to happen.
And I think it's going to happen actually very quickly here.
Also, yeah, we're going to probably have serious market makers.
The people providing liquidity to dot swap and stuff right now, these are kind of like small time, just like your average kind of
defi, not average, but like, you know, somebody who's kind of defi savvy, wants to provide a bit
of liquidity, get some yield on their dog. What you're going to see now is larger market making
firms want to have exposure to what's happening on Bitcoin here, want to farm, you know, yield for their Bitcoin and for their, you know, tokens on Bitcoin.
And you're going to have more sophisticated operations come provide a bunch of liquidity
in this manner, which is also super exciting.
All right.
Well, guys, do we have any other topics?
Otherwise, I think we're about at the end here tuxedo you got something yeah actually I was wondering
did you guys read Elon's late one of his latest tweets regarding changing the
Twitter chat and what the hell was the reference to Bitcoin there I didn't
quite get it well I I saw a very infamous person retweeting it.
I'm not going to say what he said, but what's the deal there?
Does anybody know?
I mean, he was just referencing how it's built, right?
That it's using Rust.
Basically, that's the thing that he was mentioning.
There is no other reference to Bitcoin as far as I know
that they would be like accepting Bitcoin or bringing Bitcoin to X.
I don't think that's happening.
But he just referenced like the infrastructure that Bitcoin is built on.
I don't know if it's related to like security, privacy.
Like I don't know if that's the case.
But that was my understanding.
Yeah, he was just trying to market the new kind of
like group chats and twitter which very badly needed an upgrade and they're basically going to
be uh you know whatsapp telegram signal they all use encryption right and then encryption he's
basically just marketing it as being hardcore and use the word bitcoin probably not technically
accurately but um the point that he was basically making is that we're going to get much better, much better Indian encryption on our Twitter DMs and like a new
interface for Twitter DMs, which again, if anybody's run like a group chat on Twitter,
done a lot of Twitter DMs, they lack most of the features that you'd expect.
They are working with, or they signed a deal with Telegram, right?
I have no idea. i have no idea i have no idea
i think so i think i saw a post from uh durov saying that they will be working with x well he
that that was the most hilarious tweet and exchange that i have seen when it comes to
billionaires making deals because you know the guy from telegram tweeted that they have
a deal and then elon musk responded no deal has been signed so that was like the most hilarious
type of exchange but i guess they're probably gonna figure it out and and make it happen but
like it's it's funny to see this you know it's kind of bull hey man the the billion uh dollar deals are are beyond my
understanding and the people holding this wealth uh they probably have their own you know ways of
striking those deals but yeah i i'd be it'd be fun to see something between them you know because
telegram is actually super powerful tool when it comes to messaging
and uh twitter is lacking that.
I would love to see something.
Well, I think it's coming pretty soon.
So I think it's happening.
Guys, I think that's a wrap.
Jan, do you have any final thoughts?
Yeah, I don't have any final thoughts.
Maybe Tuxedo, I don't know if you can spend one minute talking about Lisbon.
I know that you are there.
I know it's like fucking probably 3 a.m. in the morning right now.
I don't know how you can manage this, but, you know, obviously,
Ordnance Lisbon is happening.
Trevor is not here with us today because he is running that conference
or he is co-hosting that conference together with NFC Summit.
So, yeah, like, can you tell us like a TLDR was happening?
I couldn't make it this year because way too much travel on my end.
I was in Vegas last week.
I couldn't justify going back to Hong Kong for three days and then flying back to Europe.
But yeah, tell us what's happening there.
Anything interesting specifically related to Ordnus?
So basically, like a very quick summary,
I was about to arrive to Lisbon yesterday, but I got stuck in Miami due to bad weather. The
flights were canceled. It was a disaster. I came here. I saw Trevor. Actually, my vision was so
blurry because I was tired. So many people I knew, but I couldn't recognize them. I recognized Trevor because of his beard,
legendary beard.
And this guy suffers no jet lag.
I don't know how he does that.
But yeah, it's amazing.
Now, the thing is that
we have a place of our own for ordinals
within the conference,
but it's not attracting too much attention
or the attention that i was expecting
people are still wandering around and being happy around nfts and specifically there are some
projects which are trying to come back i'm not going to name them but dead from the nft space
long ago but they're still trying to survive one thing thing i saw is uh well open c is making a big
presence and i was wondering are they going to do uh are they going to drop a token or something
because they've been very active like it's uh the biggest players right now there is Magic Eden obviously and OpenSea. Ordinalz has probably 10% in terms of square feet of the whole place and very few people
actually.
I wouldn't say I'm disappointed because it's always nice to meet the community.
It's always nice to see people.
Some of them they came straight from Vegas. We are still together.
We are hyping each other up.
But we did manage to get maybe a few people
from other booths to come to listen to our panels
because we had some pretty, pretty interesting panels.
But other than that, not too much.
I wouldn't say you're missing too much young this time.
I wouldn't say you're missing too much, Jan, this time.
But wait, we have two more days.
Maybe it will pick up tomorrow.
Cynthia, do you want to take us out here?
Hi, Leo.
Hi, everyone.
I've been a little quiet today.
Just been doing a lot of listening,
but always nice to be vibing with everyone here in the Ordinal Show. Just a reminder to support the people that you like and hang out with, the people who are the real ones, the ones who show up in the space, right? And that's the way we can all win the rising tide raises all ships and i think that's
what we need to focus on all right i would like to add something leo since february uh the 9th
or the 10th i haven't missed a single ordinal show you you have to start giving out badges
or something should we do what ryan carson does where there's like a whole thing around that?
Should we do pops?
Should we do pops?
Let's farm the shit out of it
and then we can start a company like him
and announce that all the KOLs are investing
even though they are not.
Yo, I came up with your ass, Jan, actually.
Can you...
I need a shirt from Vegas.
I still need one.
I'm sorry.
I completely fumbled.
I didn't catch you again.
Bro, you fumbled the bag, man.
Bro, the only time I saw you
is when I was having a meeting.
The only time.
I was having an investor meeting
and you came to me
and I was like,
sorry, bro,
I need to finish this meeting. Yo, Jan. And then I never see you again. Jan Cool got me and I was like, sorry, bro Like I need yo yo yo young and then I never see you again young cool guy me and I was like, all right, it's
And I just never saw
No, but
He was in it. Yo, he was like in the most important meeting, but it was the most public place
It was like Starbucks. I was like, yeah, what's up? I was about to embarrass you
I'm like, dang, you got so buff like you look so good bro but i i you got yeah i didn't i didn't feel
like doing that but yeah shout out to yan man that was still one of the best shirts i've seen
in any of like amazing it was it's literally like i looked at someone wearing it and i just couldn't
believe it i'm like i can't believe i don't have this but uh shout out to you john oh man i so man like we we gave it all away but i have few at home like i have like three that i
kind of like you know i kind of stole from the from the big box and i was like i'm just gonna
keep them in case like somebody really doesn't have one but man it's only m size so i will keep
one for you 100 for the next time we meet but I hope M size is good enough for you, bro
Because I don't have bro. I'll slim down for that. I don't care. It's a new goal for me
I guess fuck it did but uh shout out to shots a young for actually making crazy
Like I don't know what experts who designed it, but bro that shit was insane
Have you worn those shirts because if you have worn them to gym, they are up in price now.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, he's right.
Yeah, don't wash it.
Wear one.
No, don't worry.
They're still packaged in original package.
So I wouldn't do this for you, Bless.
You know, I like gym, but I probably wouldn't give you a t-shirt that I wore in the gym, you know?
No, yeah.
Don't worry about it.
I would have accepted it either way but you know i appreciate you um i also wanted to come up and
say i like your little boo-boo take you know it's pretty uh pretty interesting all right we have a
new rule on the ordinal show no glazing jan jan's uh already got too high of it self-confidence and
trevor and i were talking about it we need to take him down a few knocks yeah yeah you know
like it's funny because Leo and Trevor,
they shit on me all day long in front of everybody.
And when somebody comes up and says something good about me,
it's not a joke.
Yo, I got muted for glazing.
Yo, I'm sorry.
Yo, Leo's like, where's my attention?
And then we'll maybe let you talk again.
Yeah, I did it.
Yo, Leo, I swear, like, I feel like I saw you in Vegas.
I know I didn't, but I just imagine, like, what your i feel like i saw you in vegas i know i didn't but um i i just imagine
like what your voice looked like what you look like because of your voice and i saw someone
that could be you so i don't know if that's a thing or not i was a guy with a purple hoodie
uh just just walking around he wasn't saying anything over there that that that just might
have might have been him. You just watch it!
I went to Jan and said, hey, I'm Leonidas and he said, no way, you sound Mexican, dude.
That's funny though. A lot of people came to the booth, man, Leo, like almost every other person that they came is like, so who's Leonidas up here?
And I'm thinking, like, yeah, good luck.
Zach, Zach, you met my co-founder Zach, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Solid dude, for sure.
And, man, I really do hope one of those plushies get to you someday.
Like I said, here, take this. I'm not sure if you're gonna see leo
i don't know what it is but make sure this guy like he 100 has that because i know it's so
difficult to like i've told leo so many times i'm like bro like just make a burner address something
like let's just send it over there and just never but yeah so hopefully hopefully it gets to you man
for sure and he is a very like solid like a humble guy like he was he
was so quiet and and like how should i say like a lot of manners so for sure i i wouldn't expect
for your partners to be any different basically i so i've shipped one thing one time back in like
2021 for an nft thing and i drove i got it shipped to like some random like package delivery facility
like an hour and a half away like so yeah zach picked up a plushie for me um i want you to be
careful of impersonators uh veto saying that they're already leonidas's friend and they need
a plushie that that could be a scam to get free plushies oh you know you know how i know okay that could have been that could have
been tricked too but he was literally like i i believe he was in front of me when when he got
a phone call and i was like right next to him and it said yeah i was on the call i remember i remember
yeah i was like man but that even even that could be tricked right like if if you're like good at
social engineering you could literally like just just go by someone and purposely make it so that they see the screen and do all kinds of crazy stuff.
Ghost, we actually have an issue to talk about because I know we're kind of joking about the theft of plushies.
But we actually had a major criminal incident at Bitcoin Vegas where somebody on this stage right now committed an actual crime and stole
something from your booth and we haven't talked about it yet so I wanted to see if you've figured
if you followed up with the police about that yeah that was that was crazy man it was industry day
and you know it was it was like a big line and then boot was nuts as you guys know and we were like kind of
shorthanded you could say and and as we were speaking we see just like a bunch
of people just like walking with plushies everything that they saw they
were they were taking bro like there was nowhere written that yeah like go for
it that's for it was literally for display like some of them were placed in
front of the in front of the inflatable and i was like okay we're removing all of that stuff everything's going to the back and and and
uh and it was crazy man like i i didn't expect that actually at first i was like man it's a
bitcoin conference like it this is not gonna happen and the funny thing was it happened
actually on industry day when it wasn't even open to the public and it's it's a trip out so next next time around whoever like if you get a boot
like make sure everything is like locked up secure like if you have like something that
people want uh just just put it away but yeah that's that's no way to to do anything like i i
don't i don't i don't understand like there's clearly like there's absolutely no
manners that that were taught to these people like i was like how do you take like something
that that you see and nowhere says that yeah like you know what like take it i i didn't understand
that part it was it was kind of new to me and i was kind of shocked and and it's kind of my fault
too for for for uh kind of being like yeah i don't think it's
gonna happen because a couple of a couple of homies from pizza ninjas and then other places
they said hey yo like be careful like they're just people people take shit all the time i i just
didn't really expect it but yeah it did happen uh they they took about like two to three plushies and they took like a couple of like empty, empty boxes.
But it is what it is.
Okay, I'm very sorry that happened.
And that sucks.
And yeah, like people are fucking assholes.
But I was actually, I was referring to someone else on stage who committed a crime and stole stuff from your booth.
It wasn't me. I didn't do it. I was just working at the booth. I promise.
I'm pretty sure it was Jan trying to steal the big dog.
Correct.
Like, can we address this issue?
Oh, yeah.
I was about to call the police, but I said, okay, I'll let this one fly.
Next time, don't hesitate. Just call the police on Jan when he does that, okay?
We can't have him stealing stuff from other booths like that.
Yeah, for sure.
Or we're going to send him that big giant one so he doesn't know what to do.
Like, yeah, yeah, Jan, I got you, bro.
Like, open it up at the conference.
Let's go.
Let's go.
I want it, bro.
You know, if I bring this at home and like it will probably not
even fit into my apartment you know probably like my wife is gonna leave me because i already have
so much fucking merch that it's taking all the fucking space in my in my room and if i bring
this fucking inflatable then i think it's over man it's game this is not a joke guys this is like
i don't think people understand that.
Like, you cannot just go to booths at conferences and steal stuff like this.
Like, Jan committed a literal crime.
Feeling is theft in the United States.
Detail could bring criminal charges against you.
Like, the FBI is probably interviewing kids right now.
The FBI is probably interviewing your coworkers right now, Jan, about this.
Don't you have to get interviewed?
Yes, they are, man.
If you just go around stealing
things, we can't have a society.
How can we trust you with that express wallet now, bro?
No, no, no.
Man, it's...
You know, I'm giving...
I'm just giving everybody
a service and doing everybody a favor,
you know? Just that wasn't
a criminal act
that was
basically doing everybody a favor.
You guys understand everything.
You know what's more shocking? Okay, you're
a big time thief, that's fine, you do
your thing, but the audacity
so many people watching like you you didn't even stop out of you know respect for the audience
come on do it at night man well a serious question how would you feel if people how would you feel
if people went to the experts booth and just started stealing things Would you be happy about that? Young's been
I would be super happy
He's been hitting the gym so much bro
He went up there and he was like
Who's gonna stop me?
And he flexed his muscles and he just walked away
That's pretty insane
There was actually people
Snatching stuff from Young's boot too
Wait
Is that true?
Obviously I'm joking Is Seth actually's boot too. Wait, what? That's real crazy. Is this guy?
Obviously, I'm joking.
Is Steph actually a problem with these things?
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
It's a real thing.
So me and Dominic from the experts team, we were closing up.
And he came.
He was asking about the party.
And while we were talking, there's a dude behind us.
He's just picking out through the shirts real quick.
And I was like, is that even normal? normal anyways long story short we left the conversation we went we went up to him we said hey like you
can't you can't really be doing this oh he said oh okay and he just booked it
over there but it's a common thing like it oh bro I gotta tell this story can
you guys hear me okay I'm at costco yeah good okay dude
okay are you gonna tell him are you gonna tell him about the dollar dollar dog like the guy that
bought him so got some guy comes out of nowhere he says oh yeah i won this prize like uh this guy
said that i have to come back i just gotta buy some dog and he goes out buys one dollar of dog
on solana and then he shows me and i'm like and he was trying to say he won a plushie
or something. I was like, nah, we weren't giving out
plushies at this time.
And then I was like, nah,
we ain't giving it. Sorry, we're not going to give it away.
And yeah, it was just funny that it was just
$1 of dog on Solana.
So this guy made up that he thought he would
get a free plushie. Yeah, he made up the story.
Yeah, I don't know. He was just trying to get free stuff.
There's a lot of people like that. didn't why didn't he just do the spinner
thing and like have an actual chance at it oh we took it away where you were doing like this
different pricing because the spinner was just giving out too many prizes at once and we were
running out of stuff too quick we're trying to like spread it out the other day okay am i basically
hearing that like the dog booth is so popular that we had to like limit no there's so many well it's
retarded retarded like there there's there's no way and and and and and man i'm so excited i was
pumped to learn that the the this 2026 is going to happen in vegas again there is no way we're
getting a small booth anymore like that's like and we had like 10, 10 dog, you know, we got to fit. We need that X, XL.
We need that X, XL. It needs to be a little bit more coordinated.
So that way when we're out partying the next day,
like we make sure that everyone's there and people are like energized, not,
not, you know, go ham and then,
and then worry about waking up early and we'll take turns like that.
And there's like the, the excel ones have couches and and we could we could do all kinds of cool stuff the next
the next event we're planning on having actual like a giant size rune stone as well like along
with the inflatable so we're for sure a lot of that one we sure got to do the rune yeah yeah
like led lit so so the rune so the rune on the
actual stone could like just shine and it'll be cool man but it it was maxed out like it was maxed
out both both from the lines uh up front and behind the counter like and and i had to literally like
just just step away uh because it became too overwhelming. I just stepped away, started walking around
and making friends, networking, you know,
because no one was told what to do.
These people came and naturally
they just started going ham about dog.
And it's crazy.
There was no question that was left un unanswered basically and I was like man
This is this yeah shout out to the dog army the people that just came that showed up and just were starting to help us out
The booth that was that was amazing. It was great, bro
Like the parties are only to get bigger. This is just the beginning imagine when dogs are like multiple billions mark cap
We're gonna go ham at these parties and a real-life event
Yacht party party or a cruise
trip bro that's happening 10 we hit 10 billion like i'm personally hosting a crew like record
if this is recorded perfect if dogs at 10 billion market cap we're throwing a big ass cruise ship
dog party and and we're gonna put that big inflatable right in the very front so so that
way we have like drones and all kinds of stuff like
just recording the cool stuff that is you still have that big dog right like that's reusable
yeah yeah yeah so so that 30 foot man that was a total different but we got lucky with that
that is literally what i love that over to my house that dog is you store it OG yeah he made me take that back he pretended he doesn't have room
in his car and like made me meet up with him at MGM and promised me breakfast and am I correct
that Vito just walked around bossing people around but like you guys actually J-Dog and
you did all the harm no bro he doesn't do it in public he doesn't behind the scenes okay Vito for
next year I have already ticket conference for Vegas sign me up I'm
donating eight hours from from the whole trip I'm going to attend just to be at
the booth and help spread the word about dog can we can we do like some
conference at some point I feel like that would be pretty sick
John pointed that out guys guys the the next collab that is gonna be between
something soon so uh you know that's we need to take over the asian side of the world also guys
Experts and dog is gonna happen in Hong Kong you guys don't know about it yet, but you know where we're gonna announce something soon So, uh, you know, that's we need to take over the Asian
okay like vegas is cool and all but you know we got to dominate asia because asia is where the
where the liquidity is guys okay so uh you know that's going to be a strategic move and uh you
know me and video we have already talked about it we just need to we just need to finalize it but
we're going to make something happen yan can you share the dates bro? I haven't booked tickets yet. I know we
are part of the the whole big thing but can you share dates? Yeah I'm gonna announce everything
officially. I was planning to do it this week I'm hoping I can still make it because I'm waiting for
some administrative stuff to to be ironed out.
And sometimes when you're dependent on other people, it just takes a little bit longer.
But yeah, the date is already set.
It's going to be August 27.
So it's basically, I think, around three months from now.
So we still have time.
And everything is going to be ramping up basically from this week on.
The good thing is that Bitcoin Asia is going to be happening on the 28th and 29th,
so we're basically going to take over Hong Kong for the whole week.
We're going to be doing a bunch of stuff.
Obviously, some of the communities are going to be doing side events again like last year.
I know that we have some hackathon planned as well with you guys.
And we're going to do all the announcements officially once I have everything lined up, but yeah guys
This is gonna be a major project for me in the next three months. I'm super excited last year. It was a huge success
We had more than thousand people coming through and it was like really really amazing
Everybody loved it
And so I hope that we can replicate the success and make it even better and bigger
because you know yeah Asia is for sure excited about everything that is happening in Bitcoin.
It's funny because like you know yes like maybe your runes are not as hyped right now as they
were last year during the same time of the event but I believe we're going to get there right we
have three months to go and I think that know, we have this opportunity to show everybody what kind of progress we have made, you know, in the past year.
And I think people are going to be really, really fucking excited.
Can we get Widao to give us each?
Yeah, I'm going to make some announcement, hopefully.
Go ahead.
Well, Widao, okay.
Yeah, can we get Widao?
Where's Widao, actually?
I haven't seen him around.
Like, is that guy still in dog army? He started bullposting seen him around like two weeks ago again for the first
time in a while yeah because like i met him in singapore i remember i met him in singapore last
year in person it was during the token 2049 and he was like so freaking excited it was a it was
great like he's a great dude but then i kind of like didn't see him for a while so i'm glad he's back we can definitely have him to do something you know with the doc army in in
hong kong because it's very close for him it's just like one or two hours flight for him so uh
you know he definitely need to stop by oh yeah hell yeah i'm excited jan i'm excited um execute
what's up dude i have a exit song whenever you're good to go.
Yeah, I think guys
we're pretty much ready to wrap up here.
We can go on for about three hours.
Execute, over to you man.
Guys, have a great weekend. We'll see you on Monday.
Gaz wanted me to give a shout out to the weirdos.
see you guys on Monday.
It was all a dream and sadbirds still cry go get
yourself a weirdo
It's going to fucking zero.
I played the end of the fucking song, not the start.
But of course we use the market basket of synthetic crap you don't want to buy.
That's the Matrix. You're living in the Matrix.
Tickets to escape the Matrix are priced at Bitcoin.
