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The Pulse: Where is web3 gaming headed?
Recorded: Oct. 13, 2023 Duration: 0:58:48Space Recording
Full Transcription
See ya.
Be gone.
Dumbin' through the blues, no B.B. King.
Back to back shit, so he's lookin' for the ring.
I wake up, I brush my teeth.
I wake up, I bought two, three.
I wake up like, ooh, that's me.
Brand new car like, ooh, that's clean.
Track suit, pants, don't wear no jeans.
I'm athletic.
Count up 100 like calisthenics.
Talkin' about a bad guy, bad credit.
New MX, real used debit.
Callin'.
Brand new deals, keep callin'.
Tell them break them through, they all down.
Four whole kids still ballin'.
I just get up at night zooms.
I don't need proof on the proof.
I be way up with the moon.
I'm lookin' down on you.
Hey, nigga, I'm proud of you.
Stack money a mile or two.
I might go forever, go for eons.
Friendly get on, you don't be on.
Pull up in the Tesla, eon.
When I was a kid, I was a phenom.
When I was a kid, I was a beast.
I pull up, then I be gone.
See ya.
See ya.
See ya.
See ya.
Be gone.
See ya.
See ya.
See ya.
Be gone.
I'm on the run and you better know.
I'm in the know and you better know.
I'm here to stay and you better know.
I'm at the table, I never fall.
I'm at the table, I'm up again.
I'm at the table, I'm here to win.
Don't cook, correct it, don't come again.
Please.
I just need what I need.
I collect for my seeds.
Would've thought my name Treat.
Treat.
Please.
I pick up, then I leave.
In my pocket, I be.
I don't like to be seen.
I just get up and I zoom.
I don't need proof on the proof.
I be way up with the moon.
I'm looking down on you.
Hey, nigga, I'm proud of you.
It's like money, a mile or two.
I might go forever, go for eons.
Friendly, get on, you don't be on.
Pull up in the Tesla, eon.
When I was a kid, I was a phenom.
When I was a kid, I was a beast.
I pull up, then I be gone.
See ya, see ya, see ya
Be going
See ya, see ya, see ya
Be going
We'll be right back.
What's up?
I've been on the paper cheese for months.
I've been on the marathon for months.
All in all, I can't just get enough fight.
What's up?
I've been on the paper cheese for months.
I've been on the marathon for months.
All in all, I can't just get enough fight.
Your step to the money, that's a lay lay.
Take advantage of my time to get a payday.
I've been to myself, I've been out the way.
If I'm not with the kids, it's me and Tay-Tay.
Spend a bag, get a bag, that's the routine.
I go north, cross the border like some poutine.
Growing up, I had old dreams.
Still be on the routine.
But I turn old dreams and old dreams.
And look, we made it.
Still do more numbers than the ones who got famous.
Hear what I'm saying?
I could take a cookie, cut a system, and go bust it down and bake it.
Okay, okay, okay, okay, what's up?
What's up?
I've been on the paper cheese for months.
Good morning, everyone.
Welcome to The Pulse.
This is a Metropolis World production where we explore the most important headlines and trends in Web3.
We run the show for one hour on Tuesday and Friday at 11 a.m. Eastern time, 4 p.m. BST.
So you can insert those dates and times right into your calendars.
I'm your host, Bicek.
I'm a UK teacher and lawyer.
I do various things with NFTs.
I write the snapshot.
And I am the host of the Modern Market Daily Show with my co-host, Legendary, to keep you all up to date on this wild NFT market.
Speaking of Legendary, the OG NFT collector, the airdrop extraordinaire, and the trusted Web3 advisor of artists, brands, and businesses,
he joins me today as co-host to bring to this conversation his wealth of experience and knowledge of crypto and NFTs spanning back to 2016.
Also delighted to say that we have Yellow Panther with us as a speaker today.
He makes gaming content and is an absolute expert in that arena.
I know for sure from Legendary we've got some topics which we cannot wait to hear the Panthers' takes on.
Very, very important stuff there.
And we are delighted to say that we have our Metropolis World founders with us, Rashid and Rania.
Rashid is a producer, DJ, and audiovisual artist who's produced and released music on labels like Ministry of Sound and Armada,
as well as launched a social network in the UK.
Rania is just as creative with over 15 years of world-building experience,
including the production and direction of several award-winning films.
So delighted to get into a discussion with these panelists today.
But before we do that, just as a reminder, friends, nothing that anyone says on this show should be taken as financial advice.
This is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
The Web3 space is full of risk, so please do use your own judgment at all times.
With that out of the way, Legendary, how are you doing this Friday the 13th?
It's Friday the 13th, mate.
How are you doing on this particular date?
Are you scared?
And GM, GM, I'm not scared.
I'm doing very, very well.
Enjoying the new like animation on X that they did for Friday the 13th.
Actually thought it is an engagement farm again when I saw some people posting it.
Realized it is another branded feature.
Pretty cool to see that.
And definitely excited for today's spaces.
We made it all gaming today.
We have to make use of the fact that we have Yellow Panther with us, who's absolutely the expert to talk to when it comes to gaming.
Sounds great.
But tell me about this branded...
What did you say?
A branded like.
The branded feature set.
We had that introduced a while ago on X.
It's a custom-like animation, essentially.
And it was thought out to be...
A feature like TikTok, I think, has it as well.
That corporates could essentially book and then have their own custom-like animations.
And now they showed the animation for Friday the 13th.
So, I don't know, maybe in the future we'll have our own custom-like animation for the Pulse on Metropolis.
That sounds pretty cool.
We do like these kinds of things, right?
Where you can customize the interactions with...
Particularly the positive emotions.
I think that's pretty interesting.
Is that something that's come from gaming as well, Legendary?
Like these kind of highly customizable interactions?
Or where does it come from?
More social media?
That's a very good question.
I don't know if it would say that it has its roots in gaming.
Although gaming absolutely loves to have that.
If you look what MrBeast is doing with his videos.
When he, in his recent video, again, had a gaming sponsor.
You can get MrBeast skins, MrBeast reactions, emojis into that mobile game that he was partnering up with.
So, I don't know if it has its roots in gaming necessarily.
But I do know that it's highly, highly popular to have those kind of things in games as well.
Super interesting.
Had some emojis of agreement there from Yellow Panther.
Yellow Panther, welcome to the stage with us today.
Welcome back.
You've been with us multiple times now.
Great to have you with us.
What's your thought there?
Is that something which is coming from gaming?
This kind of highly customizable likes?
Hello, hello, everyone.
Thanks for having me again.
Metropolis World as well as Legendary and our amazing host, Cech.
And of course, oh my god, Sammy.
The new Animoca ambassador is with us.
It's such a pleasure.
He has really insightful takes as well.
But yeah, I think we recently have a hashtag Web3 Gaming.
And there is a little Immutable X logo there, right?
And some were saying that they paid $1 million.
And some were saying they paid $250 million.
Wait, wait, sorry.
$250,000.
And I got the insight.
They said they paid nothing.
So, it's really cool.
There's a little tag if you hashtag Web3 Gaming.
But there's no super cool likes and stuff like that.
But it is actually something new, you know.
We don't always get all these sponsored likes with special emoji.
I heard these cost quite a bit.
So, it's good to see that, you know, the Friday, the 13th,
we have some special likes.
A little special by the Elon Musk himself.
Love it.
So, yeah, I'm happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Let's have a good chat today.
Love it, man.
Thank you so much for that.
I definitely agree with you.
It's always exciting to have these types of things happening.
One point I'd make, though,
we've got to make sure what the numbers are there.
We almost got confused there between $250,000 and $250,000.
So, I think that's a very big gap.
Just to confirm, were you saying it was $250,000?
Also for free.
I heard you said it might be free.
Yeah, $250,000.
Sorry.
Not $1,000.
Definitely not $1,000.
Got it.
Got it.
They're very reasonable $250,000.
So, that's obviously within,
maybe if we all pool together,
we can get something near that.
Rashid, welcome to the stage.
How are you feeling about these customized likes
and that idea of some customized pulse likes?
I think customized pulse likes would be epic.
I haven't even tried it yet, this new like.
So, I'm going to do it right now.
But as Yellow Panther said, Rashid,
$250,000 to $250,000,000 budget.
Do we have that budget?
I'm not sure.
Right.
Okay.
Well, got to tap up the investors.
We're looking for some very, very clean, exciting likes.
That's what we're in the market for.
Rania, do you think the investors are on board with that?
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely on board our customized likes.
The thing is, though, I know it's a funny thing.
We laugh about it, but people really like it.
People genuinely really do enjoy the interaction that I've found.
Well, your emotions are, we have so many different emotions.
Sometimes I want to have different things when I want to tap to the things you're saying
or our guest speakers are saying.
So, it's true.
We need a greater palette of expression.
Absolutely.
Do you know, one of the really interesting things, when I, my first job out of university
was I was an English teacher and we taught English language.
And one of the things that we had to write an essay on was like the rise of emojis.
So, we had all these like teenagers trying to explain why emojis were like so important.
And I think technically of all the languages or alphabets that exist, the emoji language
or alphabet is the fastest growing one.
Because exactly as you just said, we need more ways to communicate digitally, digitally
because that's how we're always communicating.
And that's, you know, that's, that's the language that people are using.
We're not actually using words as much.
We're using these things.
So, that's super, super interesting.
Actually, something that just occurred to me too, a lot of the times we're not even
meeting in person anymore.
So, you know, when you see someone in front of you, you see the expression, you get that.
So, hopefully the emojis and the likes offers almost that close to in-person interaction
as well with, you know, the expressions and stuff.
Well, yeah, exactly.
I actually remember writing something very, very similar to what you just said as part
of like a model essay for like these 15-year-olds who was trying to, like, it was a very good
essay.
I modeled it at like, at least an A grade.
It was, that was an A grade comment, Rania.
Well done.
Really, really good.
But no, I literally remember saying something exactly the same as that all these years ago.
Super fascinating to consider how we are evolving in that particular respect.
But let's evolve into the rest of today's show.
Today, we can expect, as always, a key analysis of the Web3 headlines.
And then we're going to hear, well, we're going to definitely dive in with a bit more
focus into gaming today, because I think that's something we want to talk about a lot.
Legendary, what are the most important pieces of news you've picked out for us today?
And which do you want to discuss first?
Absolutely.
We have three pieces of news for today.
The first one being the price pool, the rewards pool for Yugo Labs' Heavy Metal Forge game.
We had a discussion about it, touched on it at the end of the modern market today.
Definitely want to go a bit more in-depth with that.
And we have a thread by Sammy on the UK approving Microsoft acquiring Activision Blizzard, which
is also interesting in the light of Xbox talking and thinking about implementing a wallet themselves.
And then I also want to take the time, because we have Yellow Panther with us, to dive a bit into
MapleStory Universe, to also have a bit of a contrast of how gaming projects can work when
you don't have NFT pre-sales and a game that's a bit different structure from other projects.
But before we do all of that, I would quite like to dive into some Metropolis news with
Rashid and Rania first on the last spaces we talked about, the avatar creator being live
for holders.
I think it was three days ago, October 10th, that you opened it up for everyone and also
made sure that you don't need a wallet to craft your avatar and to explore digital fashion
on MetropolisX.io.
Rashid, Rania, was that transition difficult from basically the holder access only to open
it up for all?
Did it go all smooth?
What was your experience with it?
Yeah, so it was very smooth.
And it's been really interesting just to see kind of how once you remove that barrier of
needing a wallet, just the kind of different people that are joining.
We're seeing a lot more Web 2 individuals.
We're having people, the younger generation, all the way to like, I tested it on my mom
the other day, who's like, finds all technology very difficult.
So it just really removes that barrier.
And it's really nice to see how people are essentially minting without even necessarily
knowing they're minting.
And it's quite a nice process.
So we're very happy with the early traction that we're seeing.
Actually, it's funny because minting, I started sending out all the sort of Web 2, you know,
people really don't even know what a wallet is.
I was like, oh, did you mint?
Did you mint your avatar?
And they're like, what do you mean by mint?
And so we had to change the terminology to, well, did you just buy or did you claim your
free avatar?
So that's kind of been an interesting switch too.
Maybe it is a bit early to ask this question, since the walletless access has only been
live for a couple of days.
But do you see a difference in not only like the user demographic between, say, the Web
3 core users and the Web 2 users, but also difference in the behavior on the platform?
You just mentioned, obviously, them not being familiar with the term minting.
Is there anything else that stood out over the last couple of days?
I think that, interestingly enough, with Web 2, we're finding they like to get in and they
like to sort of mint a few free ones first.
So it's almost like you kind of, it's like they don't want to pay, right?
They don't have the same mentality that you're actually getting a digital collectible, that
there's value, that there's supply, you know, there's rarer traits.
So they don't think in that way.
They just come in thinking, wow, this is super cool.
I love it.
OK, but I don't want to necessarily pay on the first mint, so to speak.
So that's been really interesting.
So we've seen a lot of people signing up, a lot of Web 2 people signing up, but their
tendency is to do a couple of free ones before they're sort of invested and then go in
and sort of pay for them.
Rashid, did you want to jump in on this as well?
Yeah, I mean, that's been a really interesting consideration, what Rania said, and just the
idea that there's something for everyone.
I mean, that was the whole concept we had was to really change this whole ESOS of how
you access NFTs.
So it's very interesting to see how you people, some people are minting free avatars, some
are minting multiple, some come in and spend $5, $10, $20, others come in and spend $500
to $1,000.
So it's something for everyone.
But the key is like the barrier to access Metropolis is zero.
And that's really important to us.
Like anyone can sign up, don't need a wallet, sign in with email.
You can get something which has tangible value as a digital collectible for free.
And then it's about consistency in building that ecosystem.
And then the last interesting fact that we found is each user is signing in about seven
times so far.
I mean, it's a very short period of time still since we've launched, but the metrics are
looking really good just from like a retention and just generally like number of mints per
user.
So we're very happy with the early results that we're seeing.
I have one more question.
When it comes to education, I would like to throw first to you, Rania Rashid, and then
also hear from your side and your perspective, Yellow.
When it comes to signing up Web2 users who, as you said, don't need a wallet, don't necessarily
are aware what minting even means.
At what point in the user journey do you think it is important to educate them about blockchain,
NFT tech, everything that's going on in the background?
Or do you think that that's something that they don't even need to know at the beginning,
might be educated about it a bit later on?
How do you feel about that basically educational onboarding process?
I don't think you need to educate them at all because I think it's irrelevant.
And it's funny, I was talking to a guy who works in music royalties and he said it's, you
know, when you go and you get your avios for your, you know, your flight or whatever,
you're not asking them, like, what system am I getting my avios?
Like, there's so many things we do, but you don't understand the backend, the system, you
know, that whole thing.
So I think, I mean, Rashid, you should jump in.
But for us, for Web2 people, it's about an amazing experience.
It's about the creativity.
It's about building a digital ID on social media that you can share on social media.
It's about the unlocking of cool things and cool products.
So never in that journey do they need to be educated on what an NFT is or, you know, what's
powering, what's powering the system.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, we see it as like if Web3 is not, everyone talks about it often, it's like it's
a vertical.
It's not a vertical for us.
It's just, it's a technology that underlies us, that allows us to apply like what we
want to do from a frontend perspective.
So to me, it's like, okay, the fact that, let's say Legendary, you have your digital glasses
that are fidgetal in Metropolis.
You don't need to know that you're like listing that on Rarible through a Matic because it's
on the Matic chain.
It's just, no, I can sell this.
I can trade it.
I can buy it.
That's the language.
How that's being done.
You don't have to worry about it.
Just, you only have to worry about the beautiful interface in front of you.
And that's a simple user journey.
Like Apple.
I mean, Apple is a prime example of the simplest user interface.
A lot of tech behind the scenes.
No one needs to like, no one worries about what that tech is that allows them to have
that simple experience.
Very, very, very fair point.
ZPS here with your hand up.
First, I want to throw a similar question to Yellow Panther and then we'll go to you.
With gaming specifically, Yellow, we've seen that core gamers are very, very hesitant
when it comes to NFTs, when it comes to blockchain.
I've recently been on Reddit exploring a new digital trading card game that I wanted to
explore and people were talking about the game's good, initial reviews look good, but
then there was a disclaimer warning.
This game uses NFTs, you know, do with what you will.
Do you think if you want to onboard core gamers to a Web3 game, is it important to be transparent
and disclose that even at the risk that they might be, you know, scared away because of
the technology or do you agree and will also follow more the thought that it is not really
important for them to know, at least at the beginning, that this is a quote unquote like
blockchain game?
It looks like Yellow has just dropped off.
He's just requested and just accepted.
Oh, gotcha.
I still see him as a speaker, so it might be lagging a bit on my end.
There we go.
I think you're added back now, Yellow.
Is that working?
Can we hear you, Yellow?
Hello, hello.
So sorry.
I don't know why I got dropped off.
But basically, I think there was this amazing case study, Dr. Disrespect, a well-known
two-time champion and also a very big content creator.
He actually is making a Web3 game.
And he and his audience, obviously, a lot of his fans do not care that it's actually NFT.
We actually, we have a content creator who is named Bryson, a very well-known Web3 content creator in the space.
He actually played the game himself.
He went undercover.
And he started asking people in game using voice chat and asked, do you know that you're playing a game with NFTs?
And then the person will say yes or no.
And then a lot of them say, no, I don't care.
And the second question that he asked, oh, wait, he said, do you know that there's NFT involved in this game?
They say yes.
And then a majority say yes and some say no, right?
So obviously, they know there's NFT involved with this content creator, very big content creator, Dr. Disrespect's game.
But he then asked another question.
Do you care about NFTs, whether it's in-game or not?
Or do you think gameplay is more important?
A lot of them, surprisingly, said gameplay.
So the traditional media actually confuses people and misled people to think that gamers hate NFTs.
But actually, we have been, you know, quote-unquote, training digital assets since we started playing games like RuneScape, EVE, Online, and World of Warcraft, and so many more prime example games.
So I think that eventually, a lot of these people do not actually care whether, for example, if Metropolism, these wearables are NFTs or not.
They actually want to come in to play the game first.
Obviously, you know, the best is that you have social logins and not just force people to download MetaMask.
And then people will start to first enjoy the game, and then they will only care.
If they really like the game, they will start.
You don't need to tell them to buy a loot box and stuff like that.
They will automatically buy it, and they will automatically ask their friends to play.
And, you know, gaming is all about a friend's influence and not like, quote-unquote, other, for example, other big influential content creators say,
hey, play this game.
The chances of conversion is lesser.
But if you tell a friend to play a game, the conversion of your friend actually playing the game is extremely, extremely high.
So, you know, to answer your question, gameplay comes first.
I really think so.
You know, a good game will attract not only, you know, the players, but it will attract a wave and also a, you know,
a ripple effect in the word-of-mouth kind of marketing campaign that is very much unstoppable.
Look at what GTA did.
You know, people were lining up outside of stores.
But I'm not sure whether we get to experience that experience again because everything right now, it's just one click away and one download away to play that game.
So it's even easier if you, you know, if you want to talk about converting a friend playing through Discord call and so on.
Love that perspective.
Thank you so much for the additional context and also the story that you added to it.
And ZP, I saw you with your hand up before.
Do you want to come in on this topic?
Sure.
I mean, yeah, thank you for all that perspective.
I thought that was awesome.
It's a little bit circling back to something Rania and Rashid said of certain users in your game are spending like $5 or $10.
Certain are spending $500 to $1,000.
Are you seeing specific patterns within those users that kind of scale to spending more?
I'm assuming they're also spending USD and not cryptocurrency.
Is maybe there a plan for them to scale into like crypto or is it still just Web 2?
We're focusing on maybe social user interface, spending USD and just enjoying the game itself.
But really enjoying the conversation so far.
So I appreciate any perspective.
That's a great question.
So it's actually the whole thing is built on Polygon.
So all the transactions are actually occurring in Matic.
But by default, we show them as USD.
You can toggle between USD and Matic.
So as a Web 2 user, you're essentially coming in with social login, seeing the dollar amount, checking out a credit card.
But we then get paid in Matic.
As a Web 3 user, if you're connecting your own wallet, you would come in, kind of go through the process, and you'd confirm in MetaMask.
So you would see that it's Polygon.
And you'd see the Matic currency.
So it's an interesting blend.
And then to answer your question in terms of the different user types, I think we're seeing the core community that are very invested in our project and have a little bit more context and have been with us longer.
It's probably spending the larger amounts, whereas newer people are coming in, kind of minting for free.
But then the idea is that every week we have something new for them.
So it becomes, for us as a business, there's like three core metrics we live and die by.
One is users, so just signing up and being part of our community and being in the platform.
Two is minting, whether it's free or paid, doesn't matter.
But it means you've taken an action and actually created your identity on the platform.
And three is then revenue, how many are then converting to actually spend capital, invest further with us, the power users, basically.
And so it's moving people along that funnel as a business is, I think, how we look at it from the inside.
Gotcha. That's awesome.
Is there a percentage you hope to get into that third stage of the funnel where they're spending money in-game?
It's very early to say.
Right now we're seeing an average of $16 per user.
And I was actually with Legendary IRL last week.
And I think you said Legendary, that's a pretty good number compared to some gaming, other kind of gaming companies.
So it's very early to say what number will convert.
But the idea is hopefully all.
Obviously, the goal is to try and bring people to invest more of us and then kind of level up over time as we give them more functionality, utility, and things of value.
So that's so interesting.
It's so interesting to learn about the kind of the three stages, the funnel that you're moving people across, but also some of the numbers behind it.
Because I guess many people are just entirely oblivious to what that kind of rate of conversion is.
So super interesting.
I kind of wanted to cycle back a little bit before we move into the next topic and ask in the same way that you think that it may not be necessary at all for people to try and understand the kind of mechanics or what's going on under the hood.
And we should just be abstracting away from that, getting people interacting with all of this stuff in a really natural way.
In some sense, then, is the whole concept of onboarding completely pointless?
Because this is something I've thought for some time where we always talk about onboarding.
Like, okay, we've got to get people here.
We've got to get people here.
We've got to get people here.
But then I sometimes wonder, like, is that what people were like with the internet?
Like when the internet came, because Rasheed, you spoke about this as a technology, right?
It's just a cool technology.
And there's certain occasions where technology is just inevitable.
It doesn't even matter.
Like, you don't, I wonder whether people consider the internet as like, okay, we need to get people onto this thing or where people more relaxed and like, look, this is the tech.
This is going to be the future.
It's going to come.
We don't need to onboard anyone.
It just will happen eventually.
How do you, maybe Rania first, because I think you were touching on this first.
Is there, do you consider this onboarding concept like a kind of misnomer as well?
I mean, it's, you have to onboard, the way I see it is you're onboarding someone to a new product or a new IP or a new, like most people don't think about shopping and creating a digital avatar and being part of a marketplace.
And, you know, the fact that you can dress and undress these avatars and change your look and that these can unlock things.
So for us, it is an onboarding right now and today, like where we stand today, because it's just so new.
Like, you know, we feel what we have is really great and it touches on a lot of things like the creator's economy, like creators being able to monetize and fans engaging.
But that's still a very new concept.
But I think eventually it's like with social media, right?
Before Facebook came around or people started even using social media or even emails, they didn't really know why they should do it.
So I think today where we stand and also with all this negative, you know, there's so much negativity.
If you even say NFT or even hinted it or crypto.
So for us, it is onboarding in today's where we stand.
Yeah, absolutely.
Completely fair enough.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
Legendary, I think you want to move into the next topic.
I think that was a really interesting discussion.
So ready to move on when you're ready.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Let's dive into the discussion around Eurolabs and the Heavy Metal Forge game.
They released the price pool, the information on the price pool.
And the reaction to that was on the rather negative side.
If you look at the price pool, the top player takes away 4K Ape.
Outside of the top 500, rewards go down to roughly 45 USD.
If you look at the total pool size, it is worth about 90,000 Ape versus the number of 700,000 Ape that have been spent within the game.
And I think the expectations were definitely way, way higher than that.
Given Eurolabs history with, for example, Dukidash and the Golden Key that ultimately sold for 1,000 ETH.
Also for Ape versus Mutants.
And we had quite a discussion about that on the modern market today.
As I mentioned before, from the perspective on the one hand, this is my opinion, saying that just going for cash prices,
no matter how high they are, if this is not really a competitive eSports tournament, seems a bit lazy.
Opposed to going to rare items that you then could collect and discover the fair market value by just trading them like Eurolabs already had shown with the other side trip too,
where you could earn those special helmets if you happen to be on the winning team.
We also had Kodama with us, who is a prominent collector in the Eurolabs ecosystem, who said he was completely disappointed with the game
and just doesn't see this as being exciting at all, and the prize pool basically doesn't fix it.
It's more about, first and foremost, the game being fun.
And I would quite like to dive into this discussion a bit deeper.
But I would love to ask you, Yellow Panther, first, when you saw that reward structure being announced, what were your first thoughts?
I mean, you already said it.
A few months ago when it came out, I was so disappointed.
People still try to say good things about it, but to be honest, the truth is it is a pretty bad game.
It's really boring, and it's kind of like a popularity contest.
So this leaderboard thing is just an extra thing, to be honest.
It doesn't even bother me, and it's not worth a discussion as a gamer myself.
But people like Orangey, he's a very big Yuga holder, has a lot of Yuga assets.
Obviously, he will have to say good things about it to protect his floor price and so on, which I totally understand and respect.
But if you want to talk about gaming perspective, the risk to reward, not risk, but the playing effort to reward is very, very low to minimal,
which I think will discourage a lot of the people.
So I think the people will start to slowly not play the game and shift more focus to even newer projects or a better game as a general.
On a more broader topic, do you think that this constant expectation of being financially rewarded for playing a game,
which seems to really be the case in Web3, is becoming a problem that we look at games from the lens of what can I earn?
Is there a play-to-earn mechanism?
Is there a leaderboard that I can claim and just be the most popular and earn a couple thousand dollars in A?
Because if you look at traditional gaming, obviously you have MMOs where you've always been able to find a way to trade rare skins, rare mounts, whatever it is.
You have a very active, competitive eSports scene across all continents, really, for multiple, multiple games.
But I think that we are, in Web3 at least, taking that game-fine notion and financialization of games to the next level.
Do you think that this is healthy in the long run?
Yeah, I mean, you said some important things like play-to-earn and so on.
We learned the incident with Axie Infinity two years ago.
And to be honest, there will still be games that make sense for this kind of model.
But a lot of the games are going towards the direction of play-to-own, more so that encourages people to play.
And there will be a healthier mechanism in terms of tokenomics and also the overall game economy.
Those games are, many games are going to that direction.
However, there's still a possibility that there will be games that are, you know, obviously heavily relying on leaderboards and also play-to-earn.
Those games will be successful only if the game is fun, skill-based and ultimately eSports ready, right?
Some, like, to be honest, Yuga, this heavy metal game, it is nowhere close to eSports ready.
And hence, you know, the leaderboard makes no sense.
And obviously, the play-to-earn mechanism makes a little to no sense as well.
But it is a way to keep the community engaged until they drop the full release on Other Side Metaverse.
So, I foresee, you know, Other Side Metaverse will go to, like, you know, it will still follow.
I think it will be very close to what ZTX is trying to do, using Ape to circulate the economy, to, you know, fasten transactions, to use Ape to buy this and buy that,
to have a more healthy ecosystem and tokenomics burn rate.
At the same time, the game will be play-to-own and there will be more ways that you can play, not just solely focusing on the earning mechanism.
But ultimately, you will earn in-game assets which you can sell, like, you know, other MMOs.
You can sell the item, trade the item and eventually get rewarded from it.
I think that is a much more healthy approach.
Yeah, very much agree with your take.
You also made an interesting point.
Obviously, you said, you know, games need to be fun, but then you also made the point saying that they need to be eSports ready.
It's also something you mentioned in your content as well.
Why do you think that readiness for a competitive level of play for games is so important?
Yeah, great question.
I think if you look at the last 10 to 15 years, the reason why gaming industry blow up so much,
it is because of the competitive eSports scene.
We have huge competition like TI, the international Dota 2 with millions of dollars on the prize pool.
We have Fortnite with millions of dollars on the prize pool and so on.
I think these contribute to the growth of gaming, which also brings not only the traditional gamer,
but fans of these eSports organizations like, you know, FaceClan, Team Liquid, Team Secret, and so many more.
I think these fans, you know, although some of them may not play the game every day,
but they are still contributing to the gaming ecosystem in a way or two, right?
So I think eSports is still, until today, one of the most important growth drivers for gaming,
and it has already been proven, you know, for the past 15 years.
And, you know, every time there's a new game, you ask yourself, why is there a new eSports tournament?
Why is there a new, you know, these few years, why is there Valorant Worlds, right?
Why Elon Musk is going to Valorant Worlds?
Or, like, many more international competition is rising and coming up.
Like, the recent one is called Farlight 84, one of the new generation of PUBG.
Yeah, and this game is also starting to have many competition
and also ultimately a once-a-year kind of world tournament with huge prize pool.
Why is that?
To grow their ecosystem, to grow the players, to bring more players in the game.
Which I think, you know, obviously, if Yuga puts out a one million prize pool,
I think it will attract a lot of people.
So, yeah.
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Yellow Panther.
But one of my questions, we've been thinking about this from a content perspective as well,
is how do you think, with your history in gaming and seeing how things evolved,
which way around is it?
It's like a chicken and egg situation.
Is it the prize pool makes the game interesting and brings people in?
Or is it the game is interesting and therefore there is a big prize pool?
Because one of the things we've been reflecting on as it regards content creation is we've noticed
how lots of different people start to incentivize, even readers, like readers, viewers, listeners.
Everyone's getting incentivized by something over and above the pure enjoyment of the actual content.
Obviously, Mr. Beast is the biggest example where I think he had already got on the path of creating good stuff.
But now it's almost a case where every single video, there's some huge incentive for someone involved.
And there's always a financial element to it.
And so I just wondered, from your perspective and history and observation of the gaming evolution,
which way around is it?
Is it the prize pool makes the game or is it the game that makes the prize pool?
Great, great question.
But I think it is up to the community, right?
The players.
Do they think that this game is worth the time and stuff like that?
Because a lot of these games, right, is after they release, they will have the community, right?
The community of gamers that decide and that wants to play,
that are passionate to make UGC content, to make stickers, to make a lot of merch and stuff like that.
But I think, at the end of the day, if you're incentivized, if all these influencers are talking about it,
but you yourself think that game is not that great,
at the end of the day, it will just be a short-term hype, right?
And it will die down.
The games that are truly fun, like, for example, League of Legends and also Fortnite,
they are backed by a huge community.
And it's not just one or another, which ultimately is the chicken-eat question.
It is actually a combination of a few factors, right?
Because League of Legends is fun, because League of Legends have amazing characters,
the community then loves it, then a lot of people like to play it, and so on.
So I think it's a few factors, in my opinion.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
I think my personal reflection as it relates to content is that you ultimately,
you can't trick people.
Or maybe you can trick them once, maybe you can trick them twice,
but you can't, over a long, sustained period of time,
ultimately deceive people.
Like, people figure it out in the end, and so in the end,
you do need something quality underneath all of the additional fun incentives over the top.
So I think that makes perfect sense.
Thank you so much for that perspective.
It's really, really helpful and interesting.
Lesnar, I think we want to move on to the final topic now,
still kind of focusing on gaming, I believe.
Yeah, actually, the second topic that I wanted to touch on is the news reported by Sammy,
who's also with us in the audience.
Microsoft wanted to acquire Activision Blizzard, I think it was back in April,
for $69 billion.
That deal didn't go through.
Now it has been approved by the Competition Markets Authority in the UK.
The deal can move on, and the really interesting part of that,
if we want to connect it back to Web3 gaming,
is also that potential, that leaked roadmap by Microsoft,
potentially thinking about crypto wallet integration for Xbox.
Obviously, that is still on a very, very speculative level,
and we don't know the extent of what that integration could mean.
Is it just thought as a payment method?
Do they want to obviously go for the digital collectibles, for NFTs?
Is it something that will be on Microsoft's own blockchain,
or do they deliberately want to go for ETH or Layer 2 solution?
That are all things that we don't know.
But I think given the size of Microsoft and Activision Blizzard as a gaming company,
and their intentions to go for a crypto wallet with Xbox,
that's very relevant news to report on nonetheless.
Yeah, sounds good.
Let's bring Sammy in on that.
Sammy, what are your thoughts on that news as you broke it?
Well, actually, I woke up.
Can you hear me?
I'm on the stage, I think, but I just wanted to check.
A reasonable amount of background noise, actually.
Yeah, sorry, I'm just in a coffee shop at the moment.
But, yeah, so I kind of saw the BBC breaking news this morning,
and immediately thought, okay, well, recently there's been a bit of a kind of noise
around Sony and Microsoft with their crypto ventures,
whether it's the IP license, patent stuff from Sony or the leaked crypto wallet.
So I could easily see maybe a year down the line.
I don't know when the next Xbox is supposed to be released,
but you can easily see crypto integrated into either that iteration
or the following iteration, depending on when they're ready.
Obviously, if you've got this Activision deal that goes through as well,
they've got titles like Call of Duty or World of Warcraft,
which is probably primed for not only essentially magic internet money trading,
so to speak, but also NFT integration.
So I think this gaming narrative, and Yellow Panther is probably also someone else
that can speak to this in more detail given the gaming background,
but you can definitely see this narrative playing out in the next 18 months.
I don't necessarily think it's going to be the next six months,
but I think we've got the Bitcoin spot ETFs
that some analysts are kind of predicting this year as opposed to next year.
You've got the Bitcoin harming, you've got this gaming narrative playing out.
So I think 12 to 18 months, we could be in for a bit of a bump,
and I think that kind of spiked my interest when I saw that,
that the UK regulators are approving that.
Thank you for that additional perspective,
and also your view on the potential integration of that
for the future generations of consoles.
SkyE, I hope I'm not butchering your name,
I would love to get you into this conversation as well.
You also reported on that deal,
and you also reported that it took 21 months
for four regulatory agencies in Europe, China, UK, and the US
to basically greenlight that acquisition.
What are your thoughts on that topic?
Yeah, sure.
Like, it's great news,
but when I feel like when we're trying to approach
integrating blockchain into games,
I feel like we need to focus more on
when leveraging blockchain,
how we can rectify the limitations
found in traditional games.
So I'll be explaining more
in an Eastern gaming market concept
and not on the console market concept.
So gamers from the East are more interested in
probably, like, authenticity or, like, transparency
rather than just, like, assurance of ownership.
And, like, up to now,
like, Web2 games have taken, like,
a very highly vertical and enclosed approach.
Like, for example,
loot box mechanics have been a recurring topic
on contention,
and, like, players seek clarity on the odds,
yet companies often decline to provide this,
like, citing various reasons.
And, yeah, I see, like,
yeah, you posted a Maplestory universe,
which is very funny
because, like, even Maplestory in Korea
was accused of tweaking, like,
enhancement odds in-game,
which resulted, like,
in a legal defeat against cis users.
And this kind of underscores
a prevalent, like, lack of trust in data
given by gaming firms.
And I feel like this is where
blockchain can step in.
Like, it offers transparent data,
which, once logged,
can't be really altered.
Moreover, it supports creating games
that resonate the player's needs
in a more egalitarian way, I guess.
So, like, this challenge
can be addressed through blockchain.
And, yeah, so another example,
Grand Saga by Metapixel,
well, RIP Metapixel,
but, like, let's, like,
kind of explain the proof-of-play model
that Grand Saga was trying to give,
like, even to those
who aren't familiar with games.
Like, first, in a game,
you can obtain an item called A
through gameplay,
which is, like, a random box.
And when you open A,
you have a low chance
of obtaining an item called B.
It's also which can be used
as a material for, like,
something like limited edition gear,
and which can also turn into an NFT.
So what Metapixel did
was they incorporated
blockchain elements to this,
thinking of a player
using the A item
as a Bitcoin mining attempt.
And the B item
essentially becomes the Bitcoin.
So if a predetermined value
is not achieved,
it's considered a failure,
and you receive an item
corresponding to that value.
So by introducing
Bitcoin hash rate
into NFT mining,
as more users participate,
the actual difficulty
of NFT mining increases.
So the difficulty
of obtaining B peaks
as time progresses,
and this trend appears
to correlate directly
to the user count.
So I guess, like,
as I said,
first, games need to...
There's a need
for transparency
for traditional games.
While loot boxes
provide a significant
revenue stream
for game companies,
they can also become
a source of mistrust.
And I aforementioned...
The features that rocked
the well-performing
MapleStory
was a controversy
over manipulated odds
spanning several years.
So I guess, like,
what we need to do now
is more focusing on, like,
why does this game
or this platform
actually needs blockchain
when,
in hindsight,
even if there
is no blockchain,
even if there is
just basically
a Web2 technology...
Sure.
I think you're tackling
the two very important points
of A,
the need for transparency,
and B,
the actual question
as to why
a specific game
might even need
blockchain technology.
And since you also mentioned
a Mapleverse
MapleStory,
I would quite like
to use the last
couple of minutes
to smoothly transition
into that news
because before the show
Yellow Panther,
I asked you
what are some of the games
that you are currently
looking into yourself
and that you're excited for.
And MapleStory
was one of them.
MapleStory,
being a game
that I actually used
to play myself,
has multiple games,
one of which being
MapleStory,
the other being
MapleStory M
for mobile,
which I think
only as of
a month ago
launched in China,
did 55 mil
in revenue
in roughly a month.
It has a total
of 30 million
active users
and it is part
of Nexon's plan,
the game publisher
behind it,
to launch
four games
using blockchain
technology,
using NFT tech.
They also made it
very, very clear
that all NFTs
are going
to be available
and earnable
in the game
for free.
They don't want
to do an NFT
pre-sale,
which is
something that
Sugaton Aura
also did
by having
a free mint
and not going
for a paid
approach.
And I'm quite
curious,
out of the
games that you
picked,
Yellow Panther
that you
deemed interesting,
why MapleStory,
why MapleStory
Universe?
this has not
been done
by any games
before,
except
Nexon.
They sponsored
one whole
stage,
one whole
section
during token
2049,
whereas
the other
main stage
are sponsored
by exchanges.
And this
is a game
that's coming
into the
web tree
and immediately
just sponsor
the entire
freaking area
and stage.
It's crazy to
me, right?
During token
2049,
one of the
most exquisite,
expensive event
for crypto
itself,
just happened
a month ago.
And I think,
Sky,
we can talk
about Grand
Saga.
I think I'm
a huge fan
of Grand
Saga as
well.
But why
MapleStory?
Because they
are about to
change the
game,
right?
Know this,
the moment
MapleStory
launches,
the game is
ready,
people will
be able to
play it,
there will
be no
mint,
you will
have to
grind your
way to
get play
to own
the in-game
assets,
in-game
swords,
weapons,
and so on
in the
game.
And know
that they
have a
20-year
legacy
history with
over 400
over a
million
lifetime
users and
so on,
which is
extremely
strong.
I actually
linked one
of my
articles,
deep dive
into what
I have
discovered
during token
2049,
but let me
summarize it.
Once a
few generations
of items
that you
will be
able to
obtain in
the game,
players with
the highest
contribution
will then
receive a
rank or
power to
then make
their own
weapons.
Why is
this?
It's
UGC,
right?
The team
said that
we cannot
be making
the weapons
or NFTs
in the
game forever.
At one
point,
we will
stop all
the making
process of
the NFT
games and
we will
leave it up
to the
players and
this will
be truly
a metaverse
where it's
powered by
players and
run by the
player economy.
I think this
model is very
different from
what we've
seen and
MapleStory as
a giant in
Web 2,
our childhood
game, is
coming in with
a very strong
approach and
with the
already proven
success method
of UGC that
we have seen
from Fortnite
and also
Roadbox.
the players
ultimately one
day will
be running
the show
and I
think that
is why I'm
so, so
interested in
MapleStory.
That's so
awesome, man.
I do really
like the idea
of that UGC
content and
the idea and
the principle of
the players
ultimately running
the show.
Talking of
the show, we
have unfortunately
come to the
end of today's
show so we
have to wrap
up now but
we are super
grateful for
Legendary for
co-hosting with
me for our
brilliant speakers
today.
That was one of
the best
discussions we've
had on gaming
for sure.
Yellow Panther,
Sammy, ZP,
Sky and of
course our
founders Rashid
and Rania and
thank you to
everyone else in
the audience.
We are delighted
that you joined
Remember we will
do this again on
Tuesday at the
exact same time.
We wish you a
wonderful weekend.
Take care.
Have a good one.
Bye-bye.
I might go
forever, go
for eons.
Friend like
your own, you
don't be on.
Pull up in the
Tesla, Elon.
When I was a
kid, I was a
phenom.
When I was a
kid, I was a
beast.
I'd pull up,
then I'd be
gone.
See ya.
See ya.
See ya.
See ya.
