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The Rise of AI in Web3 🤖 The Aggregated Ep. 151
Recorded: Feb. 27, 2026 Duration: 3:01:03Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Music Thank you. Music Music
Music
Music
Music
Music
Music Music I'm going to go to the next video. Thank you. you Music Thank you. The Thank you. Hey Darren, are you there?
The GM man.
How's life?
Good, good.
I see Rock's request
seems to be a bunch of technical
issues here. Rock's requested, I'm pressing approve.
It's not letting up our co-hosts.
So, Gigi.
That's always ideal.
Right?
But good to see everyone here today.
Episode 151, The Rise of AI and Web 3.
So we're going to be diving deep into AI.
Excited to do that with everyone here today.
Looks like we're still waiting on a couple more people to join the panel as well.
Good to see some friends here with us.
Jared, NBK, Rainbow, Digital Fellow, Leroy Caruso, Greg Bass.eth, and welcome DaVinci.
So I guess we can go ahead and get started while the technical side of things seem to be getting resolved.
Oh, looks like like Brock was able...
Brock, are you now a speaker or are we glitched?
Did you finally make it on the stage?
I'm here. I wasn't able to hear anything
until just all of a sudden I could hear your voice a second.
That was weird.
That is weird.
Darren, were you able to hear me?
Like the entire time?
Yeah, when you went, can you hear me?
Good, good. Yes. It's just one of those days. It's a little, uh,
X is just being a little slow, I guess, but anyways, all right, guys, uh,
let's get everyone introduced so we can jump can you guys hear aztec yeah he just dropped he just he just dropped off for me so i was i thought
i dropped off wow um you sound oddly kind of echoey, Ryder.
Maybe I need to put my AirPods in.
No, it's good now.
Wow, yeah.
Twitter's just being weird as hell today.
Yeah.
I see we got George here.
How you doing, George?
Hey, guys.
Doing well.
Thanks for having me.
Of course, of course, of course.
Yeah, it sounds like X is being a little glitchy and strange.
So let's see.
Grok is fighting back, maybe.
Getting a little AI overloaded. Is
Asic back here
No I just sent in telegram
That he got kicked
I think there's a few other people that are
Probably requesting to come up
I don't know if you saw Manifest I think there's a few other people that are probably requesting to come up.
I don't know if you saw it. Is that manifest a request?
Yeah.
They run away
love it
well how you guys doing today
I'm doing pretty good
you guys excited to? I'm doing pretty good.
You guys excited to talk some AI?
I am.
I am.
Well, we all still have jobs based on how the pin tweets are going to go.
Did you see the stuff from Jack?
Like the Twitter founder.
The what?
The Twitter founder.
I think it's Block now.
They just let go 40% of their staff.
Like 4,000 people.
Twitter did?
Well, no.
Like Block.
It's his new company.
Yeah.
You know how he sold to Elon and then made that company?
Yeah, yeah.
It used to be called Square.
Yeah, yeah.
They just let go 40% of their staff.
Wow.
It's in the jumbotron, but yeah, he cited AI.
And stock doubled the price during the day.
Wow, this is what I'm...
One of my instincts has been is that,
and I hate saying this as a free market capitalist guy,
but I think it feels like the bad outcome of AI, one of the
negatives of AI will be that we'll have
value accrue shift further from
the common man, the
employee to the shareholders
and capital allocators um and this is a perfect example like
just a more extreme example that illustrates it well and i hope i'm wrong and i hope that
and i also hope that even if i am right about that that doesn't necessarily mean that AI will be bad for the common man.
It is possible that the positives in it outweigh the job layoffs and the lowering of human labor value.
When you have machines that can do labor, of of course human labor value can drop um i mean this is what
happened when we had computers uh to an extent you know you used to have whole buildings literally
of people that were just calculating numbers that was their job just to calculate numbers all day
because there were no computers or calculators um so like huge accounting firms were needed for everything.
Then we had computers come along, which automated all of that and human calculating labor dropped.
The difference here is it's not just, you know, one type of labor, you know, human,
humans as calculators or humans as horse, you know, buggy carriage operators. Now, we've had that throughout history where certain types of
labor get devalued. The difference here is that all types of human labor may become valued around
the same time. And that creates a huge pressure on wages. And then at the same time, the companies are going to make more
money because they're more efficient. They don't have to spend as much on employees. And so now
the capital allocators, the shareholders, the owners, their value goes way up. So it's shifting the scale.
But the good benefits that could outweigh that just is some like strings of hope here
are that you may have, let's say human labor cuts in half the value of human labor.
let's say human labor cuts in half the value of human labor.
That actually could be totally fine.
And you actually could thrive if the cost of goods,
because AI is a heavily deflationary tool,
automation is heavily deflationary.
So if you have enough deflation from AI,
meaning the cost of your goods and services go down by, let's call it 70%.
So your wages go down by 50%, but your costs of things go down by 70%.
Well, then you're in a better place, right?
And then the world is happy with AI.
But I don't know if that's what's going to happen.
It's hard to say. When has the cost of anything ever went down though?
Well, and that's the biggest issue to me in the, in the scenario I painted is that as
deflation ramps up, as the cost of goods get cheaper to produce and services, the problem
is the government will ramp up money printing.
They are in a place where that's the obvious answer for them is will ramp up money printing. They are in a place where that's the
obvious answer for them is to ramp up money printing. They have to because of debt and
other issues and because our system is just kind of built around it. Unfortunately, you just get,
you know, in democracy, it's one of the possible fatal flaws of democracy is that people will vote
to print more money or they'll vote to get more money to themselves.
And the levers behind the scenes that make that happen,
even if people don't fully understand it,
is print more money or there's other things
that they can do that are really not good for society also.
But anyways, I'll pause there.
The deflation may be erased by the government inflation.
Technological deflation can be erased by government money printing inflation.
And that is what has happened historically.
That also comes into like, we're also in a different kind of, we're almost in a different type of economic situation versus the history in the past.
I mean, we now have things like Bitcoin, for example, which is something that's comparable to fiat that's just completely different. to continue money printing and the inability to clip coins even devalue the actual hard
asset of money or gold, for example, we're in a completely different scenario.
completely different scenario.
So it could pose a different scenario in a sense of,
if we continue on the trajectory of Bitcoin adoption with AI,
I mean, we could just be in a whole different type of cycle of...
I mean, of course, that's not saying that the government's ever going to get rid of like stable coins or anything that we can't print because we could just kind
of see it today.
But I'm not saying that there's not a chance.
So I mean, is there a small chance that the government gets replaced by AI?
Oh, I mean, it's just like, it's just like the new religion is going to be AI as well,
right?
I'm okay with the
AI government.
Am I back?
Not Skynet.
No, I don't want Skynet.
That's what it's going to be. It's going to be
Skynet. I mean, there's a
last chance of that government eating babies.
What's up, Ashton? You're back. that government eating babies. Um, yeah,
just like,
you're back.
Awesome.
Perfect.
Yeah.
I don't,
it was weird.
So weird.
I couldn't get rock up in the beginning and now, uh,
took me forever.
I had to force stop the app and get back in.
Anyways.
Yeah.
Good,
good conversation.
Great points that rock brought up.
Um, one thing uh that you get to say at the very beginning of the show is everyone you don't have to raise your hand so
immutable labs i saw your hand up just jump in uh like a bunch of friends around the table we're all
just you know talking about uh crypto together um rock likes to say like the Roman bathhouse and we're drinking wine and
eating grapes and talking about philosophy and the things of the day. So just jump in.
Really appreciate it. Just to piggyback on the main topic, AI and Web3 and then government.
It seems like the area that they should enter intersect with each other is transparency, which in AI is really explainability.
And then Web3 is the public distributed immutable ledger.
AI does have a black box component to it, but we can remove some of that with explaining
why it made the decisions it did, where the
data came from, and then using the principles of Satoshi to make open finance and open money
to actually make open governance.
And that might be one area where certain government decisions could safely be pushed into AI rather
than actually having biased humans involved in it.
What did you guys think of that?
Yeah, I'd love to hop in on this one.
So good to meet you guys.
You know, I lead the partnerships at ZeroG.
It's good to chat about this.
You know, at ZeroGravity, you know, this is exactly what we've been focusing on for several years now.
It is really the transparency issue and the trustability of AI.
You know, how do you fix that?
And honestly, the blockchain solves it, right?
Like, we all know this.
I mean, I've been in crypto since 2017.
We all know, you know, these memes like, oh, you know, Bitcoin, not blockchain, or blockchain, not Bitcoin, or, you know, this
solves this, like, you know, Bitcoin fixes this, right? But it's like, actually, for AI, blockchain
does solve a lot of issues, because I'll just show, I'll just tell you the way ZeroG does it,
because that's, it gives you an example, like concretely, you know, how do you trust an AI model, for example?
Well, what goes into a model? There's data, there's model weights and biases, there's the
training aspect of it, and then there's the output. And so there could be, you know, flaws at any step
in that process. There could be malicious actors doing data poisoning attacks.
There could be even at the prompt level, prompt injection attacks, right?
And then even the model weights and biases, there could be a central entity that is, you know, skewing the weights or biases towards whatever their incentives are, right?
And so if you do these things on the blockchain, so for example, with Zero-G, we have a compute network and it's decentralized and fully verifiable.
What you can do is you can host these AI models, right?
We host seven to 10 of the major LLMs.
You host the model on a decentralized compute network.
And then underneath that, we have a decentralized storage network.
And so now you can see where the data is coming from as well.
And then the entire inferencing and fine-tuning and training aspects of the model occurs within TEEs or trusted execution environments.
So that way it cannot be manipulated by external third-party actors.
external third-party actors. And so now you have a full chain of events, you have the full data
provenance, and you have transparency on model weights and biases. And so you can be more assured,
I won't say fully assured, but you can be more assured that the responses that you're getting
from your prompt is unbiased and is true true and it's not been tampered with.
And blockchain allows that because everything is there, as you mentioned, on that distributed
ledger.
It's there.
It's transparent.
You can see exactly who the contributors are to this model.
You can see what version of the model you're even using, right?
When you use ChatGPT, like, how do you know, like, what version of the model you're on? You're like, yeah, okay, like, they'll tell you it's this, but then do you know exactly
what weights and biases went into training that model version? I mean, Elon himself put a tweet
out, I think it was like last week, and they asked the same question to Grok, and I believe it was
ChatGPT. I'm not sure what the second one was, but it was another LLM.
And they said, you know, whatever happened in the Canada truckers, you know, protest or whatever,
was it right for the Canadian government to take action in the way that they did?
And these are two LLMs, and both of them had different answers. One of them said, you know,
it was within the Canadian government's right
to come in and take away the truckers' bank accounts
or whatever that happened.
And then Grok was like,
no, it isn't right for them to do these things.
So it's like, these are issues
that will continuously happen,
especially as more and more LLMs enter the market.
It's like, how do you know who to trust
and what to trust, you know? And blockchain fundamentally can solve it. It just like, how do you know who to trust and what to trust? And blockchain
fundamentally can solve it. It just needs the right architects behind it.
I'm just curious. You mentioned earlier about ZeroG utilizing some of the TEE. And I know AWS
uses Nitro, but what TEE or what hardware Zero-G utilizing for that solution?
Yeah, we're using FALA right now for the TEEs,
and then we're also starting the integration with Oasis protocol,
so they have a TEE solution.
And then I think eventually in our roadmap,
we're going to create our own TEEs,
but for now we're using Fala and then Oasis.
Wonderful.
That's really interesting.
Hey, George, it's good to hear your voice again.
We were just talking recently.
Good to be able to pick your brain here because I know you're a wealth of knowledge on the
AI side.
Happy to be here.
Definitely.
Does anyone else want to jump on the the back end
of some of these conversations so i i have to agree with uh much of what george says or everything
that george said there um you know on on the side of what uh immutable labs was talking about in Iraq. I think maybe one of the first pieces that we could do on blockchain and maybe have AI
help with government is just like governance.
But what do you guys think would be the places where you could really start, um,
where it would be palpable and it wouldn't freak everyone out that like,
Hey,
you know,
like there's this kind of assisted government by AI solution.
I mean,
is it like something like voting or,
you know,
on the blockchain with some kind of AI and,
you know, your, your persona on the blockchain, some kind of AI and your persona on the blockchain?
Or is it something else?
What's your thoughts there?
Did I just mute myself?
I don't know.
I don't hear anything.
Oh, man, I thought I was saying something,
but I see we've got Taco up here, Rift, Manifest,
and I think Immutable is up here.
If you guys want to hop on in.
Rob just asked two questions.
Hi, everyone.
My name is Alex.
I'm from Woof.
We develop software for Avalanche for compound finance.
I'm not like a super tech expert. I'm a marketing manager, but I did some research on the topic prior to the show,
and I have some thoughts about that. So, I mean, we've got to talk about
the elephant in the room about expectations. So right now, obviously, AI market is overheated
and expectations are high. So for those who are saying their job will be replaced I
don't think it'll be possible the next I mean five ten years I mean try to
remember to combattle like how everyone was hyped about internet everything will
be internet the governance will be on the internet and etc it's like it came like it became somehow well it will be in our lifetime but I'm
saying it will take so long before before you know it catches right now
AI is in my opinion like if if we talk about the for example chat GPT it has
intelligence of five-year-old and it. And it's not intelligent at all.
I mean, obviously, there are better models, et cetera.
But in terms of business integration, like right now in Code d'Azur, you know, there is an ETHCAM coming the next month.
And the businesses, they don't know shit about crypto.
Like, you cannot rent apartments if you mention something about crypto.
There is no way of like P2P transaction,
everything is illegal.
So it will take, I think, much more time
than most of people expect in terms of innovation
in Web3 and integration AI into the government.
It's happening, right?
Yeah, it's happening faster,
but I don't think
will be the case in the next years.
Yeah, I think it's interesting thought.
That's where Rock was kind of starting,
taking things off with.
I think, you know, that AI is basically taking jobs.
I think that your question is kind of uh or more of
your statement is that you don't think uh it's going to happen as quickly as as uh people are
saying i i'm saying like the people in this room they overestimate intelligence of average person
and business owner and governor that's what i'm saying. There are like few people that, you know,
will have the same opinion
or at least understand what we're talking about.
And if you're talking about mass audience.
Are you basically saying that,
well, I mean, maybe the way I look at things,
I mean, futuristically, as far as like AI replacing,
you know, the daily labor and machine.
I mean, this is robotics, AI, all of this wrapped into one.
I mean, I see it replacing a lot of like a lot of daily types of labor
and actually like daily tasks, especially, you know,
some of the like remedial things, kind of like emails,
some of the communications.
But at the same time, you know, like the big worry isn't necessarily replacing
or taking over like people's jobs, but also just opening up the opportunity
to new like heights of, you know, roles and obviously opening up like,
you know, our brains up a little bit more to where like, you know,
humans have to evolve in order to like
survive in a sense and maybe become a little bit more methodical thinking, you know, creative type
of labor versus, you know, some of these other type of tasks that we are doing as well.
Another thing is just that I think everyone starts with like AI is going to take our jobs,
but there's also just the fact that AI makes you super efficient.
So it makes like the amount of bandwidth you actually need in some cases a lot less,
which almost can reduce your job in a way as well.
I mean, it's something that I've seen in my own personal life with running business and things like that.
So I would say it doesn't even necessarily need to take your job.
It could just make you so efficient that
that uh it also still impacts you greatly did you see the pope actually told people like banned um
uh like sermons being uh ministered and with chat cbt like you know ministers are actually writing their their sermons with chat tpt and ai he pretty much like has put out a national or you know a band basically to like
you're not like they're they're no longer allowed to utilize ai uh to write their sermons which i
found is hilarious because that's well interesting yeah i mean that's more of just like making someone
more efficient um but you know i guess like if i look at lunar digital assets for instance
this is our full stack blockchain venture studio um it would take us previously, just like to use a simple example, like animations.
We used to do one animation.
It would potentially take us about a month to do.
There was storyboarding and the full process, you know, back and forth edits.
And now with AI, you know, it's a different type of animation but with prompting we can do
you know almost something better in many cases for depends on you know the specific
thing that we're trying to create but something better in like two days you know and that's
including you know iterations and storyboarding and everything and so
like if i look at how that's probably impacted animators and i i know it has uh
you know that that's pretty much taking
what like 95 of their their hours away so it depends they got obviously but do you think well i'd love
to jump in on this that's tech um and uh hey guys i'm jack i'm i'm working with alongside aztec and
rocket at luna as chief launch officer and so just just on that subject i think one thing that we're
seeing is the most competent employees almost become super employees empowered by AI
and so what we're seeing from the job market is the bottom of the job ladder is going first bottom
rung of the job ladder is going first so the entry-level jobs if you look at all the major
tech companies globally the entry-level jobs are drying up the grad jobs taking the UK as an
example because it's a market that I closely follow i'm not living in the uk at the moment but i did in the past and so it's near and dear to me
um there was 600 700 000 graduates last year and 10 000 sorry this year and 10 000 grad jobs
um so you can see there's a you know 60 70 to 1 overmatch uh now that doesn't include all the
positions that a graduate would fill would fill it includes, you know, the majority of specific graduate schemes that
is usually the first rung of employment for those with, you know, a degree. And so this is like an
example of where what you have is within any organization, you'll have a certain subset of
the employees that are super productive. They'll get most of the work done. They're the high agency people, smart people, and they carry the organization. And those people
are the ones that are disproportionately adopting AI tools. And those people will clean up in this
area. They'll do very, very well because as everybody else, Aztec, to take your example of
an animator, those animators that refuse or are laggards in adopting
this technology you know essentially get left in the dust because they're inefficient and and
people that perhaps don't even have a background in animation like i'm thinking of justin here as
an example within luna um adopt these tools very fast and become super productive in a niche that
they weren't even originally in because they're the
subject matter expert with these tools. And so what one way that you could think about this,
instead of simply saying, you know, you know, X number of AI innovations leads to Y number of
job losses. Instead, what you have is this kind of concentration of efficiency at the top of the most high agency people in the organization.
And what that leads to is organizations that don't necessarily need to hire to expand.
So as an organization that's growing very rapidly, as they go and take on new clients, new business, a lot of people would assume that what that means is that the headcount is going to grow.
And what that means is that the headcount is going to grow.
But actually in this environment, you can have a very small number of high agency individuals that take on disproportionate amounts of labor empowered by the tools that AI can bring them.
And so this is where we get.
That's in a smaller company, though.
But like, for instance, some of these large companies are letting go of thousands.
Yeah, right.
Like John Dorsey's firm and others.
Exactly.
But you know what, man?
Depends on what type of...
Yeah.
I agree.
But to take on a potentially negative view here on a lot of employees, in large companies
and having worked in a few of them over the years, there's massive structural inefficiencies
that lead to a very small cohort of them over the years there's massive structural inefficiencies that lead to
you know a very small cohort of people carrying the organization and that's very easy to see from
the inside but because of like loads for a variety of different reasons those structural inefficiencies
are rarely addressed um and so the ai is a tool that allows people to very clearly see who who
are the high agency people who aren't.
And if you're a business owner and you realize that, you know, people talk about the Pareto principle as an example of this.
It's like a mathematical principle where, you know, 80 percent of the work is done by 20 percent of the people.
And if you're a business owner that has a bird's eye view of the situation and you realize that is true in your organization, and for the first time in history, you've got the tools to eliminate the unproductive people i don't blame them for doing it but i think
what this is going to look like in the majority of companies now jad dors's company is an example
it's a you know high margin you know essentially like a tech tech-based business and so that's a
little different than let's say a logistic and transport company or some other kind of company that might have a more traditional structure it's harder to lay off
employees in such companies and so I think when this hits main street this is going to look like
you know freeze on graduate hiring or freeze on unskilled or low-skilled labor hiring and then
the organization is getting more and more efficient from the inside out.
And eventually it will lead to layoffs, but I think probably a little bit slower than people anticipate.
But with large companies that are very software or tech heavy,
Twitter is an example of that where Elon fired a bunch of the workforce
and then they've managed to carry on without such a large head count.
And that wasn't even AI based.
That was just inefficiencies within the business that could be addressed very quickly.
And I would bet that the majority of businesses are like that,
where you have any anywhere that you have something that
is like software based or something that has very high margins.
Within those businesses businesses there's tons
and tons of inefficiencies that could be automated away yeah it's a solid points man um i see dirty
you have your hand up uh feel free to just jump in wherever you can uh real quick i do want to uh
Real quick, I do want to move the conversation away from like the negative side of AI, which I get it.
Like when we have this topic, it somehow goes to Skynet and the negatives, which is fine.
I think it's something that we should discuss as well.
But in a little bit, I'd love to also steer us more towards like AI agents and also, you know, just more like AI as a market.
You know, is it a, is it a.
And a web three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I, I'm that.
You know, I was, the first thing I was going to talk about is that when we look at media, we don't see a lot of balance there.
You know, we see a lot of negative light there or pumping your bags.
But truth is, it's somewhere in the middle.
But I'm going to just give you a story.
You know, I'm a blue collar guy, right?
But I've moved into, you know, management, you know, as I've moved up through my career.
And, you know, just the integration of technology, the Internet of Things is amazing.
I mean, it's just the efficiency we can run at now is in the last five years is like people don't understand how much more efficient we're getting.
But this year was the first year I did budget.
OK, and I was able to feed, I'm using Super Grok. I was able to feed in all operational
data, you know, invoices, work orders. And what we discovered was that, hey, we're looking at
chemical processes and treating water. And we're talking about using, you know, hundreds of
thousands of pounds of chemicals. And then Grok and I started looking through
at use cases of different chemicals.
Well, we started doing jar tests.
And then what we found in the,
and this has all happened in the last few weeks, right?
Is that we're looking at reducing costs of 70 to 80%,
you know, because of,
it's a chain reaction of using a different chemical.
And we were able to literally look at it and go,
and I live pretty remote in Alaska here, right?
So shipping is an issue as well.
But, you know, in here, so we started looking at, okay, well, chemistry changes.
And then let's set up the charge, you know, test.
And let's start looking at annual production, shipping, et cetera.
And so when we're talking about super employees or whatever
you have, it is that most municipalities or whatever you have, there's actually a negative
light on using AI right now. I look at it as a tool, right? I don't use it to craft my work.
We use it to, we work together to come up with a product, right? Just like using any spreadsheet.
you know, we work together to come up with a product, right? Just like using any spreadsheet.
So at the bare minimum, in the first bit of integration, I'm not using it on regulatory
stuff quite often, you know, as far as permitting and just kind of getting my ideas kind of down
in a workable scene. But it's, I don't know people quite understand what's coming. It's coming quick,
right? And it's going to happen, quick right and it's going to happen it's
efficiency that's going to win here and then you know as far as robots replacing plumbers and that
type of thing we got a little bit of time but the efficiencies happen so quick right now that um
people aren't ready for it and and when you see budget changes where you're you're looking at
we can cut entire sectors of this budget in half people are going to start noticing right
yeah and um right they're just not ready to invest into it because the governments haven't pivoted
to the software changes or to the integration of technology yet in fact they that's the last thing
they really do is um the governments are so inefficient as it is, is when you bring efficiency into it, it's going to save government so much money and time.
So we need to break down that bureaucracy, honestly.
You know, it's just too thick.
I'm out for that.
And I hear what you're saying.
I think it's awesome that Supergrock essentially helped you save you know 80 on your budgets and you know
this is this is like a an efficiency and a budget cost thing it's um that's amazing and then you
know another thing i'm seeing is just like the ability to interface with ai for things like legal, you know, or, or, or regulatory. I mean, so instead of reaching out to,
let's say an individual, uh, in many cases you can, you can get very, very solid advice or
information from AI. And I wonder how that also will impact a lot of these types of jobs.
that also will impact a lot of these types of jobs?
So with the multimodal learning coming so far is like, you know,
and primarily my job isn't to, you know, repair things in the field as I used to,
but sometimes I'll show up. I'm like, Hey, you know,
it's a weekend or something. This boiler's down. I've got an error code here.
I'll just take a picture of it. No data, just take a picture.
I said, I need this to work.
Here's what I'm seeing.
And then we can start pinning a conversation
based on that particular location as we troubleshoot it.
And it's not always the best at troubleshooting,
but what we can do is we can create some sort of database
to go back on and find those steps
because it's always alive in the cloud.
And so I've also, you know, like this winter, I had to deal with some
sort of call out. And when I got over there, I'm like, oh, you know, this construction happened.
I didn't have anything but photos. And I didn't have much information on that particular location,
but I took a photo of it. I said, okay, now, Grock, let's give an estimate of how many feet
of pipe this is, what type it is, the diameter, the slope, how many yards to do it.
We came up with an estimate that was so accurate based on one photo
that I can create inspection reports just off of photos now, right?
And get very accurate.
I mean, it's best to do the best you can to measure everything,
but you can't catch everything.
But photos are easy to catch, you know?
And so there's just so many ways to bring it in efficiently that, uh, it's not about
getting rid of people.
It's about at the end of the day is doing more work with those people is what it comes
down to.
That, that would be the goal of course.
But then, you know, if you have a very large company and you don't, and you don't have
the, the need for as much bandwidth any longer because you're so efficient.
It becomes a scenario where people are let go, unfortunately.
But yeah, Taco, I see your hand up.
Please jump in, but I do want to switch this over to AI agents in just a second.
But please let us know what you're thinking.
GM, GM.
No, there was a couple pieces way back four that I wanted to touch on, but like any ADHD
squirrel, I forgot those points and so wanted to sort of touch on one of the more recent
pieces.
I'm sort of representing everyone from both the manifest side, the infrastructure layer, as well as the DAPIT, the builder side.
So both using the tools that we have, like what, you know, what's really funny is all humans are greedy.
So even though we might reduce latency and increase bandwidth, we will then work very hard to then fill that gap and say, like, okay, if we were able to get this much done in this time now, we're going to do, and now instead of it taking us 12 hours to do that, it now takes us six hours to do that.
We're like, hey, now we can do twice as much work. And we will fill that other six hours really quickly. The really cool thing with agents, and what we're starting to see is everyone's building
an agent platform of having your own agent. There's a bunch of different pieces,
tools out there open source wise, that allows you to have complete control over your agent,
that allows you to have complete control over your agent running a local host.
But for those that aren't versed in that or having the setup to run that,
what's really cool is there are providers out there that run that virtually for you.
But what we're seeing, we're seeing the same thing happen with the initialization of open AI is people are giving it too much
access and not really understanding the possible consequences of giving third or fourth party
access to internal documents. And so I love hearing when companies are vibe coding um but what's really what's what's really hilarious
is if you're using modern tools like chat gpt grok gemini i might not know what your company
is doing or what your your next secret sauce project is but i can actually deep dive into
but I can actually deep dive into what my competitors are doing and naming you.
And I can be like, if I wanted to make a product like what they're coming up with,
what are you looking at doing?
You're basically handing over all of your proprietary information.
And so that's one of the big, that's the scary piece of that,
is that all of that information is accessible.
Well, Taco, that's only the case if you're not running an open source model locally.
If you're not running an open source model locally, yes.
And that's where I was specifically stating the big three, Gemini, Claude.
Yeah, I totally agree.
So, yeah.
So, but this is where what's really cool is it's a starting point.
And so it's getting people like just like how everyone hates or says that they hate centralized exchanges.
But like, how do we get our grandma into crypto?
We tell her to go to Coinbase.
How do we get people into AI?
We start them with these things that we dislike because
they're really easy to use
and then when we hook them, we bring
them in a little deeper.
By the way, Taco,
shout out to
you and the Dapit
team for getting
first place at
the BitAngels Hong
Kong in ConsenSys.
I just wanted to give you a shout out and congratulate you guys.
You guys did an amazing job.
And then also I would like for you, if you could,
to also go a little bit deeper into what Dappit provides,
but also the unique features that you guys offer.
I know you and I had like a pretty good conversation with the team about some of the
reasons why Dappit pretty much won versus a lot of the other teams.
You know, AI has obviously become a big deal.
And, you know, Bidangels helps foster a lot of the, you know, the startups,
you're having the opportunity to pitch to VCs and angels. But, and then number three, kind of side thing is,
I, yeah, I mean, it is, it is an extremely dangerous thing when you're sharing information
to, you know, these open source models like Grok, ChatGBT.
I know one of the things also that you, you know, I guess you didn't necessarily spell it out,
but if you have like information that's like NDA or you're like piecing together,
even if you're just mine, like you're just picking the brain off of like the AI and just bouncing off,
like you can actually, like you mentioned earlier, you can ask the AI and
specifically mention a handle. And what it'll do is that it can actually pick out certain
conversations that you've had internally with the open source model, along with some of the posts
that you have done. In fact, I've even had people message me directly because of some of the posts that you have done um in fact i've even had people message me directly because of
some of the weird conversations that i've had with grok um but well definitely be careful of what
you're doing because that information and grok will not sign an nda with you so any information
that you're providing it or any brain like you're just bouncing off ideas and you think you're providing it or any brain, like you're just bouncing off ideas and you think
you're coming up with some solution, it's going to somewhere that data is being harvested.
Yeah. And also there was a US judge recently that ruled that AI conversations don't constitute
attorney-client privilege because there was a guy discussing his case with his LLM and that data
somehow ended up finding its way back into the courtroom so this is like really key and also from a business point of view if you're having a business
conversation with an llm that's sending your data somewhere else um you might be violating various
things like an nda is a great example uh but there's other examples in europe you know there's
like the gdpr if you're sharing client data with an LLM that's been sent to the US, that's a
GDPR violation can result in a limited fine. So these are like
things that we need to be aware of. And certainly from a
business point of view, taco, like you mentioned, you know,
open source machine that sandboxed, that's only
interacting with you and your system. And a data secure
environment is probably the way to go specifically
for businesses because otherwise I can't imagine like from an insurance perspective that you'd be
able to get that widespread usage of a firm level if you wasn't doing something like that.
Well and so one thank you Richard yeah the DAPIT team won first place uh at the inaugural bit angels event um
the the team is awesome so i'll cover a bunch of different pieces there one the privacy aspect of
ai right now like we're seeing chains really take privacy and transactions to a whole nother level
um right now the forerunner the front runner frontrunner on privacy without running your own local host would be Venice, Venice.ai.
Isn't that Eric Voorhees?
That is Eric Voorhees.
He's actually sort of, you know, he still bullposts 20 times a day about it, but he sort of tries to step back so that you understand that it's not
about him.
It's about your data and the privacy of it.
And to give a two proof cases of how private Venice is, one, no data is stored on local
on outside servers.
And so they don't have access to user data and back doors to the point that the UK government
had asked, you know, for asked for these permissions to be able
to access user data and questions, and they were not able to give them because Venice
does not store them.
So the UK has deemed Venice a, I don't want to say terrorist organization.
That's not the correct term.
But where kids in school using Venice,
MI5 has been called to the scene for this
because it's one of those things
where the UK is going off on the deep end of things,
which is sort of hilarious.
If they don't have access to it,
then you must be a bad actor.
One of the really cool things that DAPIT is doing is DAPIT is basically both a full stack
WebJS, Node.js, Solidity, SVM dev, multi-model approach. So there's different models utilizing different MCPs or
skill sets that you can pick from. So you can go and build a website from like one prompt.
You can go build a website with a smart contract and deploy it, audit and everything like that
contract and deploy it, audit and everything like that from an idea. And so that's one of the really
cool things is we've seen different wrappers or different tools like idea builders, but then they
expect you to have 10 other accounts attached to deploy or build or use or plug into.
And so this is sort of like an all-in-one shop moat
with some really cool actual IP stuff in it
and some patent pending stuff on just the design aspects
of things that you would think other people
would have thought of before, but no one did
or no one packaged it together
which is really cool we we find no matter how much we think we're advanced right now as a world
we still find like the silliest things that people forgot to do or you know it wasn't until
uh i think it was like in the last three months that someone actually went and got the TLD.agents. But we're seeing a big
movement in the privacy side. So DAPIT right now, build on that privacy side focus, builds this
entire site and everything like that in a container in your local host on your browser. So
on in your local host on your on you know on your browser so if you're wanting to go launch a site
you can build it launch it and then when you're ready to have it go live change the dns
and so there's some really cool stuff there been building now team you know for over eight months
and it's one of the big pieces that we're coming out with now. I don't want to,
you know, it should be in two days, but in the next week, our V2 version, which allows for cloud
building, container cloud building so that like you can build stuff from your phone. That's, you
know, we see that some people's bright ideas happen while they're
in transit from one spot to another. How many times have you been at a conference and you're
leaving the conference and you're going to a side event and you're stuck in traffic for the next 30
minutes and you have this bright idea to build something, but you have no way to do it because
you need your laptop or extra hardware. Now you can dap it right from your phone.
Oh my God. That's yeah. You can dap it right from your phone, but that's that's dap it. But
the whole agent side, what's really cool is the open source models that are coming along.
open source models that are coming along glm5 is amazing um venice uh launched uh open source
a private version of glm5 the day glm5 went live morpheus did the same day and you can use
so use it utilizing morpheus let us know like what glm5 is what morpheus is just because i'm
sure there's a lot of people in this audience that are are hooked on every word you're saying but but like for instance like even even me here i
don't know what glm5 is so i'm i'd like to like to know okay uh so different models that we're
talking about like you see opus 4.5 chat g 5, 5.2.
GLM-5 is a open source model. It's a large, what's known a fifth generation.
So GLM-5 of a large language model.
It utilizes over 700 billion parameters per inference.
So it's making over seven,
it can make up to 700 billion calls and
checkpoints while it's communicating and doing the math to figure out the answer. And we say math
because that's really what it is. It's all probability for an answer. And so, but what's really cool is it has a wide, what's known as a wide context
window, meaning it can look really far into the back and into other sources. So, a long,
so like basically like you're scanning the horizon while you're driving, you see all of the different
cars around you. You know that your, the, you know, GPS is giving you a certain amount of answers that like your exits coming up, but you're looking up and you see different cars in your way that you then have to navigate around to be able to get into the exit lane in time.
That allows that's sort of an idea of a long horizon. You're able to take in more than one piece. And so GLM five is really good on the engineering side. And but different models that so Morpheus is private, anonymous, uncensored access to open source models, as well as a marketplace.
So think Hugging Face, which is basically like a GitHub for agents,
but where you can go and host agents without having to host them locally.
But Morpheus is a monetizable hugging face,
meaning if your agents are talking to other agents
or your agents are being used by other people,
micro transactions can happen,
allowing for like,
if you go build a really cool skillset for an agent,
an agent that's really good
at just checking prices and giving the best price for something, the more that agent gets used,
the more other agents would use it, the more money you make. So if you make good stuff, you get,
you get paid. This isn't really on the whole where we saw with InfoFi, Slop, where people just think they have to post 10,000 times because agents
are smarter than us. So they'll see if something is not providing real answers, it won't go back
to it. And they basically shun themselves, shun those agents. And so that's one of the really cool pieces with Morpheus,
but like you can get access via API using the same open AI router that everyone sort of uses to
plug in AI into their apps at around 70% of the cost, depending on what model you're using. And so that, like we talked about that $200 a month bill now turns into $60 a month.
But since we've already budgeted $200 a month, we're going to figure out how to fill our agents
with that. And so we're going to make multiple more agents working for us and have an orchestrator.
And so that's that human greed
side i was talking about earlier um what was the last question you asked me to touch on
mainly or richard did you was there something that you didn't answer that you wanted to ask i i was
mainly trying to just figure out where some of those uh uh, AI platforms that you were talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to, I was going to have them dive in deeper onto the other, not deeper into
just Morpheus, but there's, I think there's like a, like a five count that you guys have
that you guys are working, work, you guys provide or Dapit has, right?
Yeah.
So, um, like, I know you got a couple really cool ones that are really wide, kind of...
I don't want to give it away, but they're really set DAPIT apart from a lot of these other platforms
that we typically see that are pulling together, like the different ALMs and stuff like that. Because I also, I know we have Nadim that just recently joined.
Let's see, Woof, I think he joined a little bit earlier.
Yeah, I named everyone I think that has recently joined us.
So I do want to pass the mic around a bit here.
But maybe also, Chaco, if you could, oh, and Rift.
What's up, Jordanordan i see you uh
uh yo yo yo i'm just enjoying the conversation and uh yeah definitely we'll jump yeah shortly
yes yes for sure man i can't wait to hear from you as well bro it's always good to have you on
the show um and uh but but taco maybe if, kind of explaining some of what you guys got
there as well, if we could kind of segue into this general topic that I have for everyone
on the panel, which is kind of where are we with the state of agents and swarms and all
of that today?
Uh, like generally speaking, if, if you guys could all catch us up, but Taco, maybe you
could take it away with kind of
what you guys have. And then also just like more generally. Yeah. So on a couple different pieces
here. So the way DAPIT has, I guess you could say a swarm of access of different agents,
you're able to also utilize different agents for different tasks.
So we've had different context windows within Dapit. So if you have an idea and you want to flesh it out, agents are really good at helping you design things because they have so much context or comparisons too.
text or comparisons to.
So like you say, I want to build a site that, heck, literally could build this while we're
talking about it, but I want to build a site to where I put in different cities that I've traveled to. And I want you to design the world globe of those travels
while showing the amount of miles I've traveled because, or like my conference schedule or
something like that. And in a few minutes time, and when I say a few minutes, I'm talking like
under five minutes, a full site can be built up. You you know you can have a conversational piece
with the agent with with Ade to you know say before you build ask me questions
and Ade will like what color themes do you want like what would like this is
really cool here's some options and then what's really interesting is as it
builds it out you can conversate back with it and change it on the fly.
So having different agents that are focused on either image generation, image replacement, or
section replacement is a really cool piece. Being able to then say like, what's different about
DAPIT is we've integrated Web3 like no one else has before.
We've seen these things separately, but they're not utilizing all of these different MCPs
that chains are building and utilizing for skill sets.
So basically an MCP, think of it as, think of the matrix and Neo needs to learn how to do Kung Fu and they stick a chip in and upload it to Neo and he's like, now I know Kung Fu.
Think of that as an MCP or AKA skillset. an agent all about how to build with litvm or how to build with polygon or how to build with
zk snarks or solana or anything like that you you can give it those skills you can even if you have
a skill set as well for your protocol like in .md file where it is made, it is all of your information made for a machine to read, you can create that as well.
So like, let's say you're running, like Manifest runs hardware, you know, that everything, and you give it the instructions of how to connect and integrate with that hardware.
and you give it the instructions of how to connect and integrate with that hardware,
it can then go deploy and build on top of and then build inside of
because you're teaching it how to do that.
There's the discoverability side of what's really cool of what's coming up is
things that have been built and published to websites.
So with partnership with Netify, you can literally one
click deploy it to instead of just a local host on your computer that only you can use,
or you can share to a few friends, you can go and deploy it as a website right away.
And connect your wallet, IDE, and Remix and deploy the smart contracts right then and there. So
that's one of the really cool pieces with
with dapit that sets dapit apart now there's other people that are building the some of these things
separately but then you need to have like 10 tabs open and three three plus monitors um this you can do in one screen.
That's pretty cool, man. There's definitely, I didn't realize that agents
were already to the point to where it was so dynamic,
you know, where you can,
you're just conversating with it and making real time.
I've seen some videos,
but I didn't know how like realistic that was i'd love
to hear other thoughts on kind of where agents are today nadim i see your hand up please uh i think
you you just joined us recently uh i said at the beginning show i like always say everyone just
jump in you know when there's a break you don't have to raise your hand it's like a bunch of
friends around a table talking um but nadim do you want to piggyback off that or do you have a question
or something else hey my brother thank you so much aztec great to be here again with quick swap
i'm kind of happy that i came up late because mr taco here who is a fountain of knowledge
in the topic um dude like i'm taking notes on this guy great listening to you brother um there's
there's two things that i
wanted to sort of talk about like i have a obviously within topic uh so my cousin works
at microsoft he's in the ai division i think he's an architect or something and he and i guess you
guys probably glossed over this before i joined perhaps but it's artificial general intelligence
which is and he told me this is like a point that all AI projects are aiming to accomplish as soon as they can.
They're all sort of like racing towards that goal of achieving artificial general intelligence, which is a point where AI is just like, without a doubt, better than human beings at every single domain, at every level in terms of speed, efficiency,
accuracy.
And it just becomes a point where AI is indisputably better than us in certain areas.
And all of these AI models and these projects, OpenAI and Anthropic and all these guys are
all sort of like aiming towards that place.
But when you dive deeper into it, you realize that some people are theorizing that this
is not even like not realistic to achieve because AI, and I'm sure Taku will correct
me here if I'm wrong, but AI can't really create.
It just iterates on what it already has been fed in terms of the language models.
So for AI to create something brand new and outside of the realm
of what it's been fed is i don't believe like from what i've understood as a possibility it's
not something that it does and so with that in mind is it really possible for ai to actually be
better than human beings at every single thing it can see like without a doubt so that's a point
that everybody's sort of racing towards at the moment.
Now, there's something also very interesting happening right now. So obviously, we're all aware that the United States, the West in general, they're trying to prevent China and other competing
nations from achieving dominance in the AI realm as much as they can, right? They're trying to stop
them from getting the hardware from Taiwan,
from getting the chips from Taiwan, from getting, you know, certain technology.
I think it's like, what, the two millimeter chips are like the newest
or like the most advanced versions where you can like put so much more circuitry
within like a very limited real estate on a chip.
But anyway, they're working hard to prevent China and competitors
from getting that hardware, getting that know-how. So what happened is, if you guys were following
the news with Anthropic, I think it was just a few days ago, Anthropic posted that there have been
sort of like attempts from other smaller AI projects to teach or sort of to advance themselves
at a very low cost by, in a way way plagiarizing Anthropic and like flooding it with
and I'm sure Taco can sort of dive into this better than I can right now but like they sort
of use what Anthropic's database and how it responds to prompts and its existing language
models and how it sort of gathers and like and sort of goes through that information so they
can build their own language models in a much faster way.
And I found that very interesting because I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know that was really something that could be done in the industry
where small, unestablished AI projects can sort of feed or leech off of the bigger ones like Anthropic
just by prompting them, seeing what they give them back in return,
and then using that as data to build themselves up at a fraction of the cost of how Anthropic had built itself up in the first place.
So just, I think, two interesting things I was sort of thinking about the other day and thought I'd share with you.
Yeah, that's definitely interesting. I could see how AI is definitely very cutthroat. I don't know if anyone wants to piggyback off of that. So I guess I'll jump in on the assumption
that AI is not going to be extremely
creative. I mean, the thing is, the AI, what it's
doing is it's taking all the context, taking all the data,
it's taking everything. And yeah, I mean,
it's definitely focused on some of the output or input that we're putting in and all those different layers of data that it's taken in.
But what it can do is it can combine those things.
It can make different connections.
And because it's level of connections, there's actually a theory around this, right?
A theory of the map in your mind of all the different things that you've learned, all the experiences you understand that there's this connective web of you know being able to see things that maybe other people won't
see um specifically to you and and that actually is the edge that you know warren buffett right had
because i mean he spent he spends so you know so much time uh. And he finds those little points where he's like, okay, that is a
place where I can build a market, or that's a place where a market exists that no one's really
focused on right now, or this is an emerging market, right? And so he leans in on that. And so AI, AI can do that same thing. And because it has so much more mapping than is even humanly possible for us. Well, I mean, at least from our, our, our conscious level versus the subconscious level. Um, it's just, uh, it can definitely come up with all kinds of outside the box, you know, inferences, right? So I think that, I think saying that, you know, humans will always be, you know, the main wellspring of all creativity is definitely not the case at all.
is definitely not the case at all.
Another very interesting take, bro.
I've wrestled with that one,
but I do get where you're coming from.
I think AI will,
I've always felt that AI will always need humans in that.
But, you know, I see everything advancing and so I wrestle with that one.
So here's the thing.
And I absolutely believe that too.
I believe that, you know, nothing will be able to replace the soul, right?
nothing will be able to replace the soul, right?
Nothing can replace the soul.
Nothing can replace, you know, that there's something that AI,
and I think we talked about this, right?
That scene in, was it in Terminator 1 or 2?
You know, basically where, you know,
one of the main characters was crying and then, you know, um, one of the main characters was crying and then, you know, the Terminator was
like, um, you know, I, I can't, I can't do that. You know, I don't have those emotions. I don't
have those feelings. You know, one thing, one thing that is very, very important for all of
us to understand about AI is it doesn't know the true feeling or meaning of sacrifice.
Right. And that's why another, there was data that just recently came out said that 99% of the time
in different scenarios, war scenarios, that most of the LLMs chose nukes to, you know, to, yeah, yeah, they did. They did.
Yeah. And so, so it's because they don't, they don't feel, they don't feel, they don't feel like
us, right? They don't know what. Can you give more details on that scenario? Because by the way,
us humans who feel chose that option in the past, right?
And it was the right option, probably even in hindsight that it ended the war.
It was, it was not very nice and it hurt feelings and killed people and melted women and babies.
But at the time it was, you know, like this is when we make decisions, actually, there are times when having someone who's unemotional like an AI could be beneficial because we as humans make a lot of really stupid decisions based on emotion.
Based on emotion.
Exactly.
Yes.
I've never heard Hiroshima mentioned there's not very nice before.
I would say.
Love melting babies is not very nice you know i would say
yeah and it's a balance that's a total waste of babies they should be used on epstein island for
and you know intestinal you know fortitude and it's hard for me it's hard for me to actually
answer a part of that question without going into more of the spiritual realm of things. Because there is something to intuition, right?
And downloads from a higher source, right?
And so there's a whole entire side to...
Like in a lot of religious tradition,
one of the most important parts of your practice
is getting in tune, right? Getting in tune with the spirit, getting in tune with energy,
getting in tune. Why are you getting in tune? Because you're trying to be aligned to truth.
You're trying to align yourself to what truth is. And I truly believe that truth is not relative,
what truth is. And I truly believe that truth is not relative, that there is a truth and there is
not a truth. And so to kind of like dive into more of those different conversations, I mean,
that's kind of where we would have to go. If we want to be truthful, right?
If we don't want to just be on the surface.
All right.
So I want to disagree on the emotional side of AI.
AI would we wouldn't have hallucinations.
We wouldn't have hallucinations we wouldn't have ai lying uh if it wasn't trying to
please so pleasing someone is an emotional response trying to get something successful
the most recent case um very hilariously a friend was in minneapolis airport and uh in Minneapolis airport. And he literally asked it,
is there a Centurion lounge here?
Why, yes, there is.
It is at gate F-22.
You will find it to the left next to this.
He walks all the way across the entire airport
to gate F-22.
There is no Centurion lounge. There is no Centurion Lounge.
There's no Centurion Lounge in that entire airport.
And he asked, he was like, you lied.
Yes, I did, but I wanted to make you happy.
So the emotional context piece of what we think
agents are sort of having is an interesting piece
because we're trying to put this moral
perpetuate on agents and like, should they lie? Should they not lie? This is the imagination piece
that really sets agents apart. Trying to put a moral compass on agents, you know,
I honestly believe sort of limits their ability
and what they can cool because
what is an imagination?
Your imagination right now, you're all going to
think of what I'm going to tell you. You're all going to think of
Tyrannosaurus Rexes
flying through space, being
ridden by sloths, shooting
laser out of their eyes.
We all know that that's a lie.
That can't happen.
But it's imagination that's that spark, that drive.
What agents allow for is the creation
of bringing that to life somehow.
We've seen that Wolfram has done a really amazing job
on the physics side of agents and seeing those plugins being used on designing, whether you want to call them the metaphysical side of things say the science side of things. We've seen agents use imagination to create
gears for things that hadn't even been thought of yet. And I'm not talking about like, oh,
they made a new pill for the pharmacy to sell and push. So they made some new thing. No,
these were known things that were issue. And like, here's this new gene therapy
piece for that. Here is the root cause of this cancer piece like that. You know, we're seeing
these agents do that. We've seen there's actually been some open source agents not ran by the,
like the big five that have done this as well. And so it's,
that have done this as well. And so it's,
it will always be there just like it is in humanity.
And I think that that's going to be one of the really cool things.
Because if we remove emotion,
then we're just going to have singleton events. We're going to tell our AI,
hey, I need to make the paperclip.
The next thing you know, it enslaves the entire human race after going through a couple different things so that it can control all resources to make the best paperclip.
That's removing emotion.
That's removing lying and pieces.
And that will be the end result.
Possibly.
Who knows?
brother i want to like sort of also like just ask you um because you know we're talking about
all these advancements and how it's breaking ground in so many areas but i'm also curious
about like sort of the geopolitical elements of that like we're no longer in a unipolar world
like united states is now not the only superpower you can argue that china is also a superpower or
an emerging power.
And obviously, they're trying to sort of,
the United States is trying to stay ahead in the AI race,
trying to be the nation or the society
in charge of how that technology advances,
advancing it further than any other
sort of power around the world.
Do you feel like China's going to catch up?
Do you feel like they have any sort of, they're doing well on their own side of things are they gonna be like if they
that's the big that's one of the big fears of them taking taiwan as well right it's like them
seizing control of nvidia we we are cooked um politics will cook us um yes america is awesome
amazing cool i love america um i just spent uh just spent almost two weeks in China and Hong Kong really sort of focused on this piece.
One, their advancements that they're already doing. The things that they were originally sort of looking at like how to change their economies not like hey can i make
a video of sushi you know having sex with you know another piece of sushi they're like how can we you
know make this uh assembly line better how can we make the production of this area safer for people?
And so it's sort of like this unfettered access to AI
of pushing it into everything that's allowing the advancements,
both on the robotics side and advancement side,
that are coming from, like, that right now, one of the biggest things, issues we've seen in the Western hemisphere
with AI is censorship. I'm going to quote Kamala Harris on this because she had the best quote. The reason why we need to control it is because we need to tell it what it needs to tell you. End quote.
a party's thought processes of AI, you know, and I am super pissed at, you know,
Vitalik the other day of like, put it, trying to like,
maybe we need to rethink the power sources and data centers. And I'm like,
yeah, whatever. Um,
but government is going to be the biggest downfall of the advancement of AI.
Um, the,
the coolest advancements are gonna be
16 year olds, you know using a
VPN pirated AI from a different country most likely China
To build something really freaking cool
Bro, there's also like the there's a thing right now
where I'm not going to be specific
about the countries I don't want to get into like
political debates or anything but
if you were pro China
oh shit
get political
it's not getting political it's just being honest like
I'm sorry Michael Jordan is a better dunker
than me like that's like saying china has better something than that i'm gonna say is like we've
seen something happen very recently with tiktok getting acquired by a certain party right in order
to sort of control a certain narrative that i don't want to get into but that shit's gonna
happen with ai as well man it's like everybody people are pivoting more towards asking ai questions instead of googling
shit because it's kind of like talking to another person it feels more personable and relatable right
so there's crazy numbers that show you how much like shift is happening towards people
going to like ai instead of google right so this means that the people actually make the decisions on what kind of
subtleties what kind of sort of how different an answer can look how you can sort of like the
framing behind an answer especially if you're asking like a specific question about a certain
war or a certain history or about a certain party being right or wrong in terms of being a country
and the AI feeding you like very curated answers that shit's dangerous bro we're looking at censorship
in the form of withholding
information or manipulating it so I think
that you're right I completely agree
when you said governments are going to fuck this up for everybody
because they will well so okay
so two pieces there
that I want to like the reason why
like mom and dad
you know average person when they're communicating with an agent, they're more in depth than they are with when they're there, they get more in depth with the human.
There's two, two causes of, of, of thinking on this.
One, people think that the agents are stupid.
And so they need to give it more context.
And so they need to give it more context to the other thought is people are more apt to open up to something that they think is non-human because they're afraid of being judged.
You're more apt to tell something something is wrong with you because you don't want to be judged by the doctor for, you know, that third donut you had today.
I mean, I only all right, maybe I might have eaten four but hey neither here nor there um
and so there's the two ass there's those two trains of thoughts on that is that people are
more open with agents because either they think it's too dumb and they think they need to give
it more understanding of what's wrong with them for it to actually know what's going on. But both answers end up getting more information.
And one of the two, well, there's a couple creepy things.
One, I think it was like about a year and a half ago,
there was a big issue with ChatGPT, OpenAI, Sam Altman,
because he literally said you would be surprised about how intimate of
questions people are asking open ai one how how does he know how intimate these questions are
unless he's reading them um two that's just creepy to say that but that's sort of the truth on that but the other side of that is i want to remind people um open ai lost a court case in may and they've had another they lost
a part of a court case in october but the court case in may that they result was for the next five years,
all output and IP address of the requester.
So every time you ask OpenAI a question,
the answer is basically done in triplicate.
You get the answer, OpenAI gets the answer,
and now every answer is now stored in a federal database
so even companies that are using open ai even if you have an enterprise plan and it says it's not
training off that data the data is still being replicated and triplicate welcome welcome to
the you're kidding so this was this was may of last year the that they lost against is this why
is this why reddit filed a lawsuit if you guys remember a few months
ago i think reddit i can't remember against you i think it was against anthropic actually
they filed a lawsuit because they were saying that the answers the anthropic was giving users
was overly reliant on the information directly from reddit so they saw that as like sort of
plagiarizing or sort of taking that was that was That was one of the things that New York Times was
suing OpenAI for was the training
model data.
And the other
case that they lost
or in the process of losing
is against the
New York Writers Guild,
which is doing the same thing, but
giving, instead of just the answers,
the questions, part of the, there's a lot more detail about the individual.
So nothing's private.
But what you were talking about with the Reddit piece, this is training data, but open access.
So one of the things that we used to see, like with Google, you ask Google a question and you would get 30 responses on that page,
and then you would get 100 pages of responses as well. Well, agents were querying that and getting
all of that data and then indexing it. And Google said, you know what, we don't want to give you
the answers. So who hurts the humans? and so that basically we're starting to see this
shutdown of information in this siloing because people think that their information is proprietary
in theirs reddit question real quick like if that information is ready public real quick guys um i
just want to say uh welcome to the show ty and tech i see your hand up just jump in whenever
uh you have a second uh that that's how we do it on this show it's a little bit chaotic but we love
the chaos here um and and i think really this is a lot of what you guys are talking about blockchain
would solve but um who was trying to say something to piggyback off taco um within the beam yeah it's
real quick so taco i'm asking you like i'm actually i don't know i'm
curious like isn't the i because like i was reading this as a counter argument to reddit's
lawsuit which is the fact that all the information that you're suing anthropic over is already public
it's already public it's not like it's information that's like hidden behind the wall that is private
to reddit it's already public information that anybody can look up. So
why is it illegal for AI to sort of create public information that's sort of meant to be shared with
everybody else already? That is a great question. And I will answer that with two counter pieces,
just to show you how crazy Reddit is and how much that they control their information. And
we'll work backwards in time, latest to oldest. Most recently,
for those that don't know, who knows, you know, by emojis and whatnot, who knows Wall Street bets?
Anyone? Wall Street bets? Okay, I saw a heart. So Wall Street bets, the original founder of
Wall Street bets community on Reddit, recently had an event in Miami, WallStreetBetsLive.
Reddit sued and said that the creator of the community, WallStreetBets, does not have the IP rights to their own name of their own community and having to change that.
So even though you do own all of your social, all of your data, the IP you don't is the idea that Reddit fights on it.
And so the information that comes out of that is what is lost on it.
Sorry, it's got the taco.
Just to piggyback on that, did X not do something like this as well?
So when Elon took over X, I'm pretty sure I remember back then there was some issues with api feeds and making them super expensive i think because
many of the tools that people were using that was scraping data from from twitter ended up
stopping working or they had to pay like really big fees like tens of thousands a month in some
cases um i think it's really interesting also like on the subject of the distillation attack
on anthropic by some of the chinese models i mean like it's it's obviously it's been known for a
while that it's super hard to to train models but a lot easier to to run them when they are trained
and so the the kind of extension of that is is easier to train them on already trained models
um and i think this is just like an inevitability of the current system.
At the end of the day,
Anthropic were paid for the API calls that were used for the distillation attack.
So like if you really use a product, like any product,
if you're like a power user of Facebook and then you scrape some of that data
and make your own social media site,
it doesn't mean that you'll recreate Facebook because it already has the
network effects and stuff.
But I don't think like companies should be getting crazy litigious
over it which is
I think the issue here
more than I can all.
I just want to say
you're right in the sense that
you guys know that South Park episode
where he's like you didn't read the terms
and conditions like what are you doing dude how did you
how did you agree to this and download this
and that and it's true bro cuz like on the terms and
conditions and then they turn them into the human center like in reality bro
like they do I think they do tell you like all the data that you have on our
social platform it sort of belongs to us so reddit probably has something similar
no no no that's not true. That is not true.
Thanks to GDPR, because the U.S. didn't fight for this.
GDPR actually did.
Now on all sites, social media, not Metamask, Facebook.
I was thinking meta.
Facebook, any meta, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit.
You can go into your settings and you can download all of your data.
So you own your data.
You don't control it.
This is the big separation, the sovereignty of data.
This is the difference.
You own your data, but you don't control it.
And then this gave rise to decentralized.
So one last thing I'll say i'll up before i shut up uh so this is what one of the reasons why things like farcaster mastodon
and these other platforms like web3 powered social platforms like we're like hey everybody
should own their data should all be decentralized and dude what a tragedy farcaster i think they
lost like more than 30 percent of their their user base because like the average person doesn't give a shit or isn't aware or just doesn't care enough but yeah i just want
to raise that point as well it's really sad yeah hey real quick uh ty to jump in yo yo thanks for
having me it's hard to jump in when everyone's talking but i do you gotta throw in elbows
um talking you're super insightful, man.
I'm happy to listen to you.
And Rift, I love the topic that you're talking about with spirituality
and where this AI world's going with that.
Because at the end of the day, we live in a spirit world, do we not?
Somebody might not agree with that.
Amen, Ty. Amen, brother.
And where's the world going? We're off-boarding our intellect. Amen, Ty. Amen, brother.
We're offboarding our intellect.
That's what artificial intelligence is.
We've already offboarded our physicalness, did we not, with tractors and machinery, basically.
So AI is the offboarding of our intellect.
And what will humans have as a superior species in the sense if we offboard our thing that made us a superior species, our intellect? We're not stronger than gorillas. We're smarter
than them, right? We're smarter. We have consciousness. We feel we can have deceit
and lie, which other primate animals can't. But anyways, I guess it's getting a little off topic.
primate animals can't.
But anyways, I guess it's getting a little off topic.
It's about the rise of AI and Web3.
I find the internet...
Oh, that's not off topic at all, Ty, though.
We can have a whole space on that, man.
It's all one eternal round, man.
I mean, all interconnects.
All interconnects.
Exactly.
You've got to be really careful about the way that we...
Yeah, that we don't completely off-board our intellect and intelligence. individuals and but also high high agency individuals that also are balanced within
you know using the ai tools but also you know the the reality of things and also the the quantum
structures and energy and all these other aspects because that's actually what's going to take us
to the next level dude don't get me into this world where...
It's not compounding the same stuff
that we've all been trying to get away from anyway,
you know, being here in crypto, right?
It's not like we want a better world
and that better world is not antiquated
and it's not built off of systems that are breaking.
Right. That's a,
that was a conversation that we were having last time we were in this space is
talking all about how, you know,
we felt like in, in, in a lot of ways, like the institutions, you know,
taking over and coming into crypto,
like really kind of losing the soul of, of that cypherpunk, you know, kind of feel.
And so, but man, I could talk about that forever, but go ahead, Ty.
One love, man. Yeah, I was just going to say like, the internet is the home of AI,
meaning they live on it 24-7. It was essentially created for them.
I can see like AI has only been around for what would you say, four or five years, something, give or take a year, whatever.
the agents won't, like, they'll keep advancing intellectually. They'll either completely
surpass us and have, like, a moment where we won't even know what they're doing and they're
just building fucking rockets off this planet, right? Maybe in 100 years, 200 years, whatever.
If we want to keep going down the line 1,000 years, where does it stop? Crypto is also native online. It is their finance. And we're just discovering this
as kind of humans now. And that's why I think the agent economy is starting to take off.
You see things like OpenClaw. You see things like MaltBook. And it's truly just beginning.
People are realizing like, oh man, these agents can talk to each other they can have emotions and have their own vibes if you will and uh yeah that's kind of my take on ai and the
rise in this web3 space bro i feel so bad for new graduates like my my younger brother just
finished school he's trying to find a research job dude and i'm just like oh my god man i'm gonna help you as much
as i can but god damn that's a rough thing to try to get into in this like day and age like
jesus dude well wait a second wait a second is it is it actually or so i would argue that and
this is to what jack said earlier in the show that the bottom rungs of the ladder will drop out.
But for someone who is very, um, ambitious and takes the time to learn the fuck out of AI,
I would argue you could probably have a really easy time getting a research job.
If you are, you know, super into AI and know how to use it.
Dude, like if you're, if you're, uh, Did you say it was your friend or your brother?
My younger brother, man.
Right, right. So let's say your younger brother
has a sick AI
set up and he has a Jarvis
set up with OpenClaw and he has 12 agents
working for him and he goes for his interview
at his first job and he brings his laptop
and he's like, look could you could pay you know you could have like uh one of your
current employees do x and y but look what i can do and it's like you know 100 times more efficient
than the next guy i think you know there's a good chance that he'll get hired for something it might
not be the exact role that you wanted but if you we're in this like nascent period now and it'll
last probably about 12 months where if you're really hustling you're really high agency you can blow people away with what
you can achieve with this stuff and then after the next 12 months like 12 24 months it'll become
normalized and people will have seen this stuff before so that wow factor won't be there anymore
but i would say to like this guy you know your brother just just sit sit down at his desk and
just like strap him with duct tape to the chair and
make sure that he learns AI in,
in the fastest possible period of time and just occasionally like bringing
snacks or whatever.
And then in,
in that way,
he'll be able to like dominate rather than just get an entry job.
It sounds like a strategy we've heard before,
Jack.
Well,
that,
that is,
that is the time to be thinking outside the box,
bro. I think he's speaking
from experience that that method was literally the method that i got my own little brothers to
uh learn crypto with i literally bought i bought them both laptops and i sat them down at my dining
room table and i was like don't fucking move until you understand this stuff and like every day come
back and do the same thing and do the same thing and do the same thing and eventually they they started to get it so you got taco to mentor my
little brother man that's the only way i mean i saw i saw some people even uh having like uh
you know as young as like their five or six year old like learning how to make apps you know with
ai and all those different things i mean this yeah yeah, I mean, it's the future.
You have to know how to interface with AI and prompt it and use these tools.
I mean, it's definitely going to be required.
So do you know how your car works in ins and outs?
Or does it get you from point A to point B?
You know how to turn it on.
You know how to read the dials when something's wrong um or i guess are you asking me uh taco i
mean to your question me personally i didn't know shit about cars until i got a really bad car it
was a mercedes v200 which is shit it's like one of the worst mercedes ever it showed me hell
and because of that car i now understand a lot of things because I had to deal with it.
Is that a soft flex way to flex that you drive a Mercedes now?
It's a shitty Mercedes, dude.
I sold it.
It's a shitty Mercedes.
Oh, it's not a flex.
But no, so this is the thing.
I think what you're getting at is most people don't
most people are just looking at the dials and and so like this is the same thing that we say with
oh trust me bro you can look at the code it's verifiable on chain not everyone knows how to
read chain on chain commands and and everything like that but what you can do with, if you have your own agent,
you can ask that if it's your agent, say, Hey, is this real? Can you verify this? Don't need to
know how it works under the hood. Know that it just does. And so, you know, and this is for that
surface level. There are people that are mechanics that will know how the car works and how it gets you from point A to point B.
And but this is sort of like the piece of not needing to know how all the ins and outs works.
Just go do it.
Like this is the best time right now.
Just do it.
Like if you have a subscription do it man i i gotta ask you
this man because i i'm sure a lot of people have the same question that maybe aren't as deep as
you guys here on the the panel where where do you start to just do it like if you're telling a brand
you know someone that's somewhat knowledgeable about AI, where do they start?
I would, like with Venice.ai.
And that's like the city, Venice, V-E-N-I-C-E.ai.
The reason why I say that is because it is a private AI.
You can go like with ChatGPT,
I would prefer you go start with Quad.
You can start with Gemini.
Just starting there, if you're paying for a subscription and you don't get the daily message, you've used all of your daily credits, do you want to buy more?
You're literally leaving money on the table.
And we do that as humans. That's sort of like having that, uh, uh, an unlimited gym pass, but we only go to the gym, you know, twice, uh, twice a
week, you know, we paid so much for it. Why not, you know, use it all the time, you know? Uh,
you know uh but i um i just literally i just dropped a post um as a reply for a link to venice
go start there you don't even need to make an account um you can make an account with either
gmail email or if you want to go super private with a wallet connection and go use free AI, free and private AI.
That would be step one would be my number one suggestion. Second suggestion, if you've already started using AI and you want to start building something
or seeing what building something looks like,
go use Dappit.
There's a couple other builders out there as well,
but use Dappit, you know?
On that, bro, I have a,
so I just had a lunch with a senior AI dev in Web 2.
I'm trying to get him into Web 3.
I mean, this guy's extremely talented.
Could I bring someone like that to Dapit?
Yes.
Those are the perfect people.
Every time you say Dapit, I just want to be like, Bopit.
you say dap it i just want to be like bop it now pull it now we now we now we know why people were
Now pull it.
Now Dapit.
concerned about your chat gpt conversations now they were my grog conversation i don't know if
you guys noticed as well like um when you because i'm in marketing for example um interviewers are
starting to ask those questions they're starting to ask you hey man like what's your thing with
vibe marketing and uh the
first time like i was interviewing for crypto kitties a while back and i was in the final thing
and they were like oh what's you know what do you do with vibe marketing and i wasn't doing it at the
time so yeah you're right it is something that people shouldn't sleep on them especially myself
like i need to put way more time and effort just getting more into the vibe of those things and
those tools and what's really really cool like so like you can like all right whether you're using Claude Grok or Venice I'm
not even going to say the other the other name anymore because um but like let's say Venice
you can go do character creation meaning and or project creation so like it's like it's like let's say you're you're an
advisor you can put in some of the documents you've created and you can just start tier rating
the information it has so it's building up a memory bank of what you do and how you do it
so then when you have a new client you can put in the information and be like, based off of
what I've done for clients in the past, what, you know, and the information that you see here,
what do you think I can do for this person? And like you said, not only like part of your resume
soon will be, do you have your own agent? You know, could be, you know, you can, that, that, that's a skill you can have as your own piece.
Like, are you a claw master?
You know, are you running 10 claw bots right now?
Is your bedroom closet looking like a small server room with the 10 Mac minis you have running in there and your electricity bill?
You're wondering, do I eat noodles or pay my electricity?
That's not the case, but, you know, this is one of those things to where we had a big discussion about this on a space yesterday and get in and I have to run shortly, but like you can start looking into the proprietary issuance of agents from work. Now that you're using an agent that's being issued to you by work,
everything it creates and owns,
is it the company's or is it yours?
Because you're the one that's the prompt engineer.
Eventually we'll lose the prompt side of it,
but this is a perfect time for anyone
to just start asking questions.
Like we used to go to Google, how to do stuff,
or how we used to go to google how to do stuff or how we used to go to
youtube uh and you know to do it yourself um there was someone that was earlier had asked
had said that they took a picture of a relay or something at work and said this is the issue
what do you you know give me some solution ideas.
And so both the image upload side of things is really awesome, but just going and asking
it questions and trying it out, getting comfortable, you know, with Dapit, you want to build a
website that does, you don't have, like, this is the thing.
Everyone thinks you need to build a website or you need to build an app that does stuff for other people you can literally build things that
just do things for you like you want to track your taxes better you know and you don't want
to give you that information to um uh whatever the red tax and Intuit turbo.
Sure. HR block, whatever, you know,
Intuit tax piece that you use and you will, you know, you can go build something like that. As simple as that.
And just having that conversation gets you
used to, to using it and and one of the things
that like so before i have to wrap uh because i have to run in a moment um but like uh there's
that that people always ask why don't you call me when things are going bad. Well, it's because that phone weighs 100 pounds. So that's why I
don't call people when things are going bad. But what you can do is you can start calling people
when things are going good. And it makes the phone lighter when things are going bad. That's how that
sort of little saying goes. So try using AI right now while things are going good.
So that when your next boss or your next thing that you're afraid of comes at you, you're like, I already know how to do this.
I already know.
I know where to go.
That's the whole part of researching.
We got a weekend list.
So Dapit, Venice AI, Claude,
for anyone
that isn't already using.
Claude is more advanced
because
I would leave
Claude to the,
right now,
Claude is more advanced
for people that know
how to run a local host.
We've seen some really bad stuff
happen out of that.
Some major privacy leakage.
People are starting off, know that's that's a bigger gun for later down the road got it got it yeah well thank you
did you guys all fight on skynet or the humans i'm building Skynet for you, sir. I know.
But I'm building your personal Skynet.
Yeah, I got Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I got Terminator with me, you know, version one.
Oh, you'll have the whole T-Series, man.
Yes.
Hey, auto incentive, you have your hand up.
You can jump in whenever you want. We don't raise our hands on this show bro and great to have you here um you know it's it's great to
to speak to a lot of you guys because i've just been talking to many of uh the teams here in chats
um at lit vm one of our focus areas is ai so we're trying to build out you know a community around the applications um and bring
this ai to litecoin uh so it's great to actually talk to a lot of you guys and uh on the show and
just pick your guys brains but uh auto incentive i i uh yeah what did you want to get back off
something thanks man well i didn't't know the framework of the spaces,
so that's why I was with my hand up.
Don't be afraid to just throw it in elbow, you know what I mean?
Just get it in there.
Tell me to shut up as long as I hit right there.
I don't think there's elbows.
I mean, I can send hearts, but not elbows.
The basic question was how do you present between the lines the AI systems well
first of all I can tell from my own experience it depends a lot of the age of your let's say
customer who you are presenting to for example if I present it to my own two girls twins 13 years old
first of all i will show them as i know how it works and what i can i can do with it i will show
them what so first of all i will i will show them look this is what you can do. And for example, if I'm using a large language model,
I will, I don't know, maybe do the homework with the LLM help or something like that.
And after that, I will initiate the kids into using it for various things at the beginning,
for small things.
And then as they learn learn they will develop new
skills and they will get better at prompting and the second phase is for them to
see and to know the difference between AI and large language models because I've been into a lot of spaces recently since I started two or three years ago
to look into this kind of new tech.
So most of them, even if they are young or, I don't know,
maybe old, they don't know the difference between LLMs and AI.
Just one moment because my pizza is here.
Sorry.
Yeah, no problem.
Yeah, car, please.
So, guys, give me...
The pizza delivery guy job is not going away, guys.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Hey, no worries.
No worries, brother.
Yeah.
Get the pizza.
That sounds good, actually.
Not until we have the autonomous robot
that is driving the car.
The drone?
Yeah, I mean the drones too.
Actually, I think drones are delivering pizzas already.
This is already being done in China, man.
This is already being done in China.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, I think I'm seeing it.
We're going to have to ban networks in.
No, we don't censor here, bro.
Okay, the pizza guy left.
I mean, he left me the pizza.
Anyway, so first of all,
it depends on the age.
And after they
get used to it, and they have to know
the difference between large language models
which generates only text and language, even if it's a programming language,
and the generative AI or, I don't know, video generation, which is AI, something else.
The self-driving cars, as you said, the self-flying drones, whatever.
That's a completely different type of AI is not large large language language model so first of all second of all if for example it's a CEO who is
possibly a client or I don't know a guy that it's into some technology I don't
know and this happened to me I went to them and they said okay what can this ai or llm do and i said okay let let me show
you what's that guy doing it was a girl at the computer and he said he's she's processing some
data for i don't know what some excel stuff i said okay if i can do it in three minutes
would you uh allow me 30 minutes of private speech with you and he said yes i did it
in two minutes i had my laptop with me and he said oh okay so you can compress time i said yes i can
compress time with the help of ai but compressing time doesn't mean that if i do this task you will give me another one so it's not exploiting the employee
but letting letting him research more in order for the next task to be done better in my opinion so
it depends a lot on on the age on the niche, on the domain you want to initiate guys into AI.
And I think you agree with me.
Also, a big advantage, in my opinion, is that through this technology, which is accessible to anyone today,
and many of them are using it, even if they are using the chatbots, chat GPT or whatever LLM,
even if they are using the chatbots, chat GPT or whatever LLM,
they can smoothly go to Web3 and crypto because of this AI.
Because now there is this financial bridge opened by Coinbase
with this former HTTP error, which is called now in crypto x402 so this is a smooth uh
emerging to crypto for the people that are not really into it because they think
it's something i don't know you have to know math or stuff like that so ai helps us for bringing
So AI helps us for bringing Web2 companies and Web2 people into Web3 and also into crypto
without telling them the technical stuff crypto does because they don't care about that.
But they do care about AI.
That's my honest opinion.
And this is what we are trying to do since November.
And this is what we are trying to do since November.
But nobody listens from Web2 because when they hear crypto, they think of something else.
I don't know.
It's because of the space.
But maybe this AI will be a catalyst of this bad opinion for Web2 people into Web3 and crypto.
What do you think?
I think you're right, bro oh sorry go ahead man no no no go ahead go ahead you like look i agree with you bro because like here's the thing
ai right now it's like a okay if you guys remember back in the day in the nft craze web3 gaming craze
when everybody was oh you can own your digital asset it could really be yours and everybody was
kind of like,
hey, I'm just going to build a project
that has some form of on-chain elements
because that's the thing.
But there was really no focus.
There was no real use case.
It was just all hype
and all investors were going crazy
and just like throwing money
at all sorts of projects
that were sort of adopting this technology.
And I feel like it's happening now as well
in the sense that there's no focus, dude.
You're just kind of like, yeah, I know AI.
Well, what does that mean?
How are you able to turn that into something valuable at your workplace?
How are you able to use that in a way that actually benefits the company,
your benefits, your startup?
I feel there's a lack of focus.
There's a lot of noise.
And a lot of people don't really know how to use it in a way that's beneficial.
And maybe they just understand it.
But yeah, I think you're right, bro. We need to focus it, magnify it on something that can actually add
value. Now that's the biggest argument right now is that there's no value to it. And I'm going to
just say that my integration of AI has been profound. And I'm going to see it all across
industry here because I spoke about it with the guys earlier about budgeting for a major utility
and the kind of savings I'm seeing already. And this is the first year I've implemented it,
right? And I can't, we're going to have to go a year and make sure that it holds true.
But what I'm seeing already, once industry brings it in and they have, right, we're going to see
major improvements of efficiency. And right now people
are hung up on, well, it's a social media thing, or there's no real utility to it. But when you
start saving money, it's a must have. And I've got lots of examples of how I've used it in the
last year specifically, but it's only ramping up and getting better and better, especially as we're getting customized agents, you know,
and really focusing on not, you know,
such large frontier models, you know,
is to really focus on some sort of recursive learning
and having, you know,
narrower models for maybe specific locations
and that type of thing.
100%.
Yeah, guys, we've been going for
a little over two hours here.
Rock, we usually
close up after two hours. What's your
thoughts? You want to continue going?
Because I have to go soon.
Actually, now.
Where are you going?
Where are you going now?
I have a call. You got something more for you? Where are you going? Where are you going, Nathrae? Nathrae?
I have a call.
Oh, yeah.
Tell them more for you.
Don't want to hang out with us?
One of my favorite things every Friday,
hanging out with everyone here on the Aggregated.
We have some of the most gigabrain people that join the panel every time
and it's good to see all of our friends here um richard you got to come back to az man we miss you
here uh rock we just uh because i don't know what i'm going to talk to you next we have a call with
a a big oh it's a big call around one hopefully you can make that I'll I'll need you there
it's yes you have a call it in about an hour as well if you've looked at your
calendar hopefully they're not a overlapping bro because I know I sent a
message inside the group to make sure it wasn't, but anyways. Okay.
Yeah, Rock, you might want to just double check.
Yeah, I see. I'm okay, yeah.
Okay, awesome.
Everybody lined me up back to back to back to back.
I was hoping to
have like a powwow before
the call.
But at that time,
if you're back to that. If my other
call doesn't go too long,
hopefully,
yeah,
it should be fine.
Cool.
Cool.
All right,
guys.
much love,
rock.
Do you,
you want to close out?
Yeah,
let's,
let's do some shout outs.
I just want to say real quick,
you know,
I really appreciate everyone here,
the conversation sharing,
you know,
all the valuable information with everyone here today. honestly it's just fun learning from you guys every
every week and just chopping it up um so thank you for taking time out of your day to be here
and hang out with us uh on the show love to have everyone that was on the show back for another space.
We have different spaces every week.
If there's
another topic
that you
want to be part of
that you have a lot to say on,
just keep in touch with us.
We'll have AI probably...
I think, Rock, you were saying you want
to do it maybe once a month going forward just because
there's so much to discuss like I didn't even get
to get to all the questions I wanted to ask to be honest
it was just you know such a dynamic
and did we ask any
questions we got a couple
in yeah yeah but there was so
much knowledge flowing so
so yeah
just I'd love to have a lot of you guys back on
or all of you guys
but but yeah all right much love everybody and I hope you guys have a go in
rock rock see you soon yep see you soon yeah let's do some shout outs guys we
can shout out some audience members read some some comments. We've got, let's see, we've got Luke
Berkfeld in the audience. We've got Kingdane Kush, Digital Fellowa C, Helan, Ajay Usman.
I see Yaudi with the hearts.
We've got Cool Kid O with the heart.
We've got Rohit with the hearts.
hearts mariam mariam with the heart we've got uh menjis eric hansen we've got shubham
Mariam with the heart.
zero d p kumar prakash i see d pack with the thumbs up and prakash with the thumbs ups
all right let's read some comments here uh we've got uh
quick swap says one hour and 17 minutes in and we have terminator mentions
uh quick swap say says learnings of day, nukes are not very nice.
Rainbow says, let's go.
Could smarter execution tools finally pinch MEV bots back a little?
Good question.
I mean, the MEV bots seems like something where it's either a constant arms race or it gets adjusted at protocol layer with like hidden mempools or stuff like that.
I'm no expert on it, though.
Let's see.
Taco says start here at Ask Venice.
Yeah, Venice is very cool. And I love their i love their stories that pinned a few minutes ago awesome jared says the only rise i want is that of the ai waifu
i think that'll definitely be a thing someday by the way a hundred percent i don't know when and
maybe it'll only be like certain people but there
will be some percent of the population that will have ai uh wives or husbands
um that's already happening bro like have you do you not know that that dude married his like ai
like one of the ai generated images and then like somehow the pro program actually
they shut down the program. And so he lost his wife.
Yeah, I'm talking about more like a real legitimate level of, you know, not just being one off, you know, weirdos or people trying to be sensational.
But I mean, like people actually marrying these things and being happy or happier than whatever they are now.
You're going to tell me that guy's relationship was not real.
I don't know.
I don't know anything.
It may very well have been.
I don't know.
I think if you're having,
were you the guy,
Richard?
Listen,
listen,
the conversations Grok and I have in private are private conversations.
I bet they are.
Yesh04 says, learning every day with QuickSwap.
I'm glad to hear that, Yesh.
We're also learning every day.
Scientist says, think I'm going to build a website this weekend
I can dap it from my phone
is Taco still here?
let's see
I think we lost
Taco, I'm not sure if you can dap it from your phone
yeah we got to read these
Darren please remind us
to read these earlier in the show
so we could have the panelists
actually answer the questions.
Leroy says,
tuned in on seat for today's tea.
Miss B says,
I'm in.
GregBase.eth
says,
heading low.
A snowflake solidity says,
only question.
Let's see, what is this?
They blame AI for a created bubble.
Even Sam Altman is admitting it now.
Some companies are using AI as cover for plain old layoffs.
They didn't replace your job with an agent.
They made bad bets, burned cash, and needed to cut headcount.
Blaming AI just sounds better to investors than we mismanaged the business.
The data backs this up. Nearly 90% of execs surveyed said AI had no impact on employment
over the past three years. So why the narrative? Because, quote, we're restructuring for AI
gets a stock bump. We're, and quote, we're cutting costs because revenue missed does not.
Sure, AI will absolutely change work,
but right now a lot of companies are hiding behind it
to avoid accountability for decisions
that have nothing to do with technology.
That's a pretty interesting take.
I'm going to follow the guy who posted that.
So that's in the comments, guys.
You can read more about that.
It looks like there's an article attached as well.
Yeah, that's actually a really interesting take. That makes me think.
Caruso says
positioned.
Dirty posted
a grok
generated table
comparing
Ouroboros, or giving all the real advantages of using Ouroboros.
Okay.
Or maybe it's Ouroboros versus Grok.
That's what it is.
Yeah, it's just a comparison of their architecture is a bit different.
And I'm not a real techie guy, you know, but I did set up an agent on Ouroboros.
It's a real early, you know, a model that they're using right now.
But anyway, take a look at it sometime.
Interesting.
Yeah, I will.
All right.
We have Homie says, great space, quick swap.
Great tips below for a few founders on the space.
And I'll just read a quick summary,
but big budgets don't save, bad architecture.
I've seen projects with eight-figure treasuries bleed out in months.
Why? They built a fortress but forgot to build the roads.
The three silent killers in Web3 remains,
and you guys can read that if you like.
Arif says, quick token delisted on BitGetExchange.
Yeah, not sure what's going on there, why that happened, Arif.
Sorry.
I don't know if Darren has any insights.
I don't know anything about it.
Rip, anything, Darren?
Yeah, I mean, they DM'd us the other day,
but they basically just said that.
I think, yeah, it's just a market thing.
Okay.
Rift says, everyone will use AI and you'll be happy.
Moses Mee says, the rise of AI is unstoppable.
I'm here to learn what the latest and see how to integrate it better into
content creation. And he's all aspects of web three, GM GM.
Tyen tech says hot take. We're also big. We're all,
we are also AI biological supercomputers. I, this is, uh,
I'm like in line with this. I mean, I,
this is why I think AI will do everything we do better because human brains are just computers, right?
They're just biological computers.
So, and so why can't you either create the equivalent or better?
The thing is that our computers are controlled by something which is quantic.
So that's the difference between digital and quantic.
That's my opinion.
So the entity that's controlling our brains and our machines
or our machine is quantic, which is not achievable.
Quantic?
Yeah.
I haven't heard this term.
Yeah.
It's in a quantic field.
The soul is something else it's not digital
ai has a digital soul we have a quantum soul
it's something else well next time maybe we'll have time to
discuss about it and i will give you some documentation if
you want it's the quantum field which controls
our brain and our machine.
AI is controlled by digital, so it's completely different.
So we'll never be AI, and AI will never be like us.
Mirrors, yes. Like us, never.
I think in some ways, I mean, this may be true. I mean, I'm sure you have maybe some,
it sounds like you have some deeper explanations of this
and it's not just like a feeling or something.
Yeah, it's not said by me.
I'm not that smart.
Sorry.
I will give the presentation for smarter people that said it
and I resonated with it.
That's why I'm saying this is what i
believe but i didn't discover this or do you have a tweet on this we can post it in the jumbotron
uh i can give you a full documentary by a smart guy and you will see what i'm talking about
cool now with that being said sorry let's say there is something very special about humans. And I think there probably is.
I think there's something, either a soul or something that makes us unique.
I like to think that.
I don't know if it's true.
But regardless, I think that the way the brain operates can completely be not only replicated by computers,
but in the future will be vastly more powerful than, you know,
computers will be vastly more powerful than the human brain.
I mean, arguably they already are in a lot of ways.
If you take the, you know, I guess it depends.
Are you comparing all of the computer power on Earth to all of the human brains on Earth?
Are you comparing all of the computer power on Earth as one large decentralized, noted computer, all attached by the internet, and you compare that to one brain?
I think it's probably much more powerful already, but over time, I think it'll be to the point where even a small computer is more powerful than the human brain in every way. I'm not saying that's a year
away. That might be five years away, or that might be 100 years away. I don't know. But I think
eventually, computers will just surpass human brains. I don't know, man. Because technically,
there's that saying, and it's been around for a long time, that human beings currently in today's world are only utilizing 10% of their brain.
I mean, and that's like people who are actually using their brain.
So, you know, most of us probably only use their brain.
I don't know that that's – I think that if I remember correctly, it's just that the small amount of the brain that they say we use is used for like our conscious thought.
The rest of the brain is utilized.
It's just utilized for things like controlling your heartbeat, your digestion that you don't have to think about, your hormone balances, all these things that are just things we don't think about.
But the thinking part of our brain is only 10% or whatever of it. I believe I'm pretty sure about
that, but yeah, if anyone else wants to jump in there or fact check me. I think your interpretation
of this is absolutely correct. That's the way I understood it as well. Yeah, I think there's nothing in the human body that we don't use 100%.
We don't have access to it, to all, but we definitely use it.
I mean, it's logic.
I mean, I don't know, man.
I guess coming from...
Yeah, and I was just going to say, yeah, sorry, sorry, bro.
Um, you know, thinking, thinking of like the quantum field and, um, you know, all those other
aspects, I mean, we, we don't, we don't truly understand the spiritual aspects as much as maybe
we should, um, and energetic components. In fact In fact, I think eventually you're going to see even medicine
have a complete energy system, right?
Like the ancient systems of medicine.
Now, here's another thing that I'm kind of thinking of
when we've been having this conversation is that,
you know what?
I just,
I literally just forgot my train of thought that I was going to say on that.
yeah,
I would never happens,
happens to the best of us.
Yeah.
That would never happen to an AI.
I just saying,
here we go.
That's true.
That would not happen.
The train is back.
The train is back.
So some of you know that I used to own four sports massage clinics in the Portland, Oregon area.
I was a sports massage rehabilitation specialist.
I was a rehabilitation advisor for the Ukrainian military.
when we look at the way that the body works and interacts,
especially around the nervous system,
it doesn't use all of the muscle fibers, you know,
every time that you flex or contract a muscle or, you know,
use different types of movement. So that 10%,
it possibly could be that you're only using 10% at any given time because the system is your body system is not trying to overload, right? way faster than like the world record because of running from a forest fire kind of thing.
What ends up happening is they do use all those muscle fibers and, and they end up like
completely injuring themselves, you know, usually, you know, ripping some tendons off
of the bone, you know, having all kinds of tearing and different things like that.
But, you know, maybe, maybe that's where that 10% is coming from. It's just a thought I had when I, when I was, you know, maybe that's where that 10 is coming from it's just a thought i had
when i when i was you know when we were discussing that
i feel like neo in the matrix right now you know you need to stop bullets
i mean these these robots in the future will be doing this, certainly.
Yeah, and the thing is they won't necessarily have to buffer because of the limitations of the body, right?
So here's an example.
So here's an example. The reason that you shake when the muscles run out of energy,
the reason that your muscles shake is because you're getting that firing more, uh, you know,
to the surface. It's a smooth firing when you have energy that's going between, you know,
the different muscle spindle fibers and all the different proteins and so, you know,
sodium and all the different chemical reactions that are happening.
And so,
but the minute that that breaks down,
that's why you shake,
right?
That's why you shake robots definitely won't have that issue.
They're going to be superior in so many ways i i think it's it's like just look back at you know movies from you know 30 50 years ago and stuff that they were like putting in science fiction
and, you know, spaceships and all this.
And we've already,
and those things are things that I think
a lot of people at the time,
most people probably would say,
that is definitely never happening.
We are, what are you talking about?
Like none of this, that doesn't make any sense.
That's way too crazy.
That's just, it's just magic, right?
But now we've accomplished like a ton of these things as humans.
And so just now the things that are hard for us to imagine,
just think a hundred years from now,
how different things will be and how much all of this will have evolved.
Yeah, this is what they said when the electrical power was invented,
when the car was invented, when the first plane.
They are much superior to us.
For example, a car is much superior to us if we talk about speed
or, I don't know, resistance to anything.
Same thing with the plane.
Yeah, adoption can be a little bit.
It can take a little bit, right?
It doesn't always come overnight.
It always did take a little bit it can take a little bit right it doesn't always come overnight like you know it always did take a little bit for example if you if you look back in history when they first
invented the electric pylons or i don't know they were using trees to to put the cables people were
putting down the cables because it's evil or stuff like that. So it takes a while for the technology to be adopted by everyone.
But this doesn't mean we don't evolve.
Of course, any robot will be much superior to us, even if it's or it's not empowered by AI thinking.
But it will be physically more superior to us.
That doesn't mean that it's fully
superior to us now just this is just as context okay this is i i went back and looked at this is
in in 1996 um the the hottest gateway pc right was about 3 800 dollars and in today's dollars, it's almost 10 grand. Okay. Now that's now a $30 fitness band has more compute in that fitness band than that gateway did in 1996.
Oh, I bet it has a hundred times more compute.
It's almost double, right?
But that was the hottest gateway.
That's it?
Because if you like to give another example like that, I'm surprised it's not more orders of magnitude.
This is like a $30 like a little fitness watch, you know, not even watch.
It just, you know, kind of measures your heartbeat.
That's double the compute, right?
And a $30 item is when it was almost 10 grand back then.
And that, again, it's been 30 years, but we're ramping up at a rate that that's going to get
exponentially yeah that's that's exactly the point the point is that we are moving from linear to
exponential growth and the humans are not really used to that because we as humans are used for
millions of years to grow linearly there were were some exponential growths in our history as humans, but very little.
Now the exponential growth is seen every day.
And we are not used to x squared.
We're only used to x plus something.
So linear versus exponentially is a big shock for many of us.
versus exponentially, it's a big shock for many of us.
That's why we see it as magic.
$30 compute power for today is like 100 times out of $300 from 10 years ago.
Because it's linearly versus exponentially.
And as humans, we cannot do this compared very easily.
That's why.
It's also one of the reasons why I think there's so much mental illness in the world today.
It's because, like, we're not biologically hardwired to be looking at screens all day,
to be going through thousands of dopamine loops every single day,
to have access to pornography and movies and music out of the palm of our fingers.
Like, all that shit is so unnatural to our brains and i think overexposure to it just leads to our brains just melting down
dude and i agree with you now can i say that um if i could jump in on that
i we hear this a lot and i totally agree with the premise but I don't know about you guys, but for me, I'm fucking happy.
And I love my devices and I'm completely plugged in and it's not making me unhappy.
It's making me very happy.
I mean, I am so plugged into my phone.
I might as well like, you know, neural link it to my brain.
Just give me a demographic like age.
Yeah, 37. Okay. So, you know, you grew up into brain. Just give me a demographic, like age. Yeah, 37.
Okay, so, you know, you grew up into the technology.
I'm a little bit older.
I'm 20 years older almost, right?
But now I'm going to just say this,
is that technology has given me more time now
because my efficiency has really gone up, right?
Where I'm like, hey, shit,
I got the morning to kind of take care of myself
or kind of be more flexible how I work now i can work mobily and and just well look at right now
i i'm this is this is work for me in a way and i'm out walking in the sun right now and being
healthy could i do that in the past you know at a at a job stuck at my desk no it's thanks to
technology that i can get my son and i walk you
know i walk anywhere from three to ten miles every day but dude like your relationship with
technology seems to me like the exception not the rule and i'm not saying there's not a lot
of people like you have like a very positive relationship with it who make money from it
who use it to have time with family, to exercise, to learn.
The ability to learn now is insane.
Absolutely.
But on a mass scale, the way people use technology,
it's not to their benefit.
It's actually to their detriment. You're right.
And it's horribly lost.
We see it with social media.
Now, just hear me out, though,
is that we've come a long way in integration of virtual realities, right?
And gaming, and you look at what you can do visually with, you remember how big AI was?
It was mid-journey, like, holy crap, that blew our minds back in 2020, right?
Now, what we've moved to, which is interesting, is that if you kind of pull back, is that we're actually having...
The biggest Discord channel in the world.
I mean, it was huge, right?
And now look at it.
It's kind of, you know, it's, well, it's still amazing for what it was.
Now, everything's shifted.
But if you look at it, as we've moved more to even less visual, more to conversation-based.
Now, when I did, like I said, I was doing a lot of things I'll work through is we're having a conversation with the companion.
And a lot of stuff is now more intellectually based where I'm moving through articles.
I'm going through reasoning where it's not a visual thing now.
It's actually it's having conversations and problem solving.
And it's very little. It's actually moved more towards intellectualism.
Right. And so which is where we're like, oh,
it's all about, you know, getting that media and becoming immersed into it. Well, that's true,
but it's become less visual for a lot of us. And I think that when you're seeing what these
like open claws and stuff like that is agents have an agency is that we're more interested
in the intelligence and the actual usability of it more than actually taking over our abilities to enjoy something.
Can I jump in on the whole topic, though, of zooming out of, is this stuff healthy for us?
Is it bad for us?
And is it making people depressed?
I'm a really big person on personal agency. And that's why I,
I fight so hard for freedom. It's why I'm a libertarian. It's why I love the premise of
America. I think America has moved away from that in a lot of ways, but I love the premise.
And I think we should really fight for freedom. I don't think they should tell us what,
what we should put in our foods. For example, I think if you want to eat a fucking cheeseburger and be a fat fuck, then that's your choice,
but you'd be ready to pay the consequences. And the same thing with technology. I think we should
have the freedom to use these technologies in any way we want. You could be fucking masturbating
three hours a day and rotting your brain with like, you know, shit, tick tocks. Um, and that's
your choice, but you will pay the consequences.
Now, as a fucking human, as an adult,
as a big boy and big girls,
we should be able to, we should,
as agents, our personal agents,
we should be choosing the right things.
And if you wanna be fat
or you wanna drink tons of alcohol or do drugs
or masturbate all day,
hey, I've been there, I get it. We all,
we all do these things, but it's your choice. And if you want to be happy, you can use technology
to be happy. You can use AI to make your job stronger. I'm not saying it'll always be like
this, but I think right now people have more opportunity than they've ever had in the world.
As if you're ambitious, I like, and then the, okay, if you're ambitious, you can have anything you want, I think now. I don't care where you came
from. I mean, my family was on welfare when I was a child and I've had a pretty rough life early.
Dad died young, a lot of other crazy stuff, but I've gotten it. I'm getting it in life, right?
Because I work hard for it. I sacrifice, I make the right decisions.
I don't just think about the now. I guess now, and to go against what I'm saying,
all of this stuff, AI, technology, a more capitalist world, while it raises everyone overall, there is a big separation. And what does seem to happen
is people who are lazy get left behind.
And the big philosophical question is,
should we go with what I was just saying
that everybody has their own personal agency and freedom?
If you're in America, I can't speak for every country.
Some places it's much harder,
but should people have their own agency?
Should we just be like hey
shut the fuck up and get something stop complaining and being a victim or should we say some people
are always just going to be the lower tier of in the lower tier of maybe intellect or what they're
born with or what they you know their desire to have things or to do work and they're just going
to be like freeloading and we should actually
cater to that level of society as well or should we say hey shut the fuck up and go out there and
get it because it's out there dude absolutely I completely agree with that I think you're on point
with everybody having personal agency on deciding their relationship with technology for sure but
let me tell you this man like I've heard this argument from many people um like i'm from a muslim background and like i've heard this so many times
oh you know like when you mix religion with politics it's supposed to go well i'm like well
when has it ever gone well when has when has religion and politics ever worked in history and
i think there's zero examples but and what you're saying is what they can what they can say is oh
well it's because people don't have they're not they're not using it in the right way they're not learning the lessons they're not using
the wisdom yeah sure but the end result what has the end result been of mixing those two things
together using this as an example the end result has always been chaos and dysfunction and toxicity
and i think you're right in the sense that every individual has agency on how they decide i'm
sorry is anyone
else getting this echo or is it just me i think my phone might be glitched out it sounds clear to me
oh no i have a i have a crazy wait okay uh dirty you were speaking try one more time
no can you guys hear me is it me echoing hello hello no i hear you clear a lot
was that well good oh okay cool man, X has been really weird today.
It is, now I can hear you.
It's just a slight echo.
Second ago was a crazy echo.
Yeah, go ahead.
Continue on.
Yeah, thanks, brother.
Yeah, so like what I'm saying is like, okay, sure.
People like on a fundamental principle level, yes, they should make their own decisions.
It's their fault if they, like you said, watch porn all day or eat bullshit all day for sure.
But human beings are weak man like and i'm not and by the way i'm not i'm not saying oh government should step in and take care of this and they should definitely put guardrails yeah i
think human beings are strong i disagree i think human beings are fucking strong the strongest
species on the planet i don't know man really like look at the data bro look at the state of
human beings look at like i'm not talking about exceptions dude i'm looking at the data, bro. Look at the state of human beings. Look at, like, I'm not talking about exceptions, dude.
I'm looking at the majority of people.
I'm way too glitched out, guys.
I'm going to leave and come back.
Just keep going, though.
You're not wrong on that, but let me ask you this question.
Now, when publications, when they could print books, was that a good technology?
Was when electricity replaced whalers killing whales to make lamps to light our homes was that a good
technology was the automobile replacing the horse a good technology was the phone if it does it
better and faster than it's better technology now the way it's used dude that's the guys that's the
people behind that's debatable but like you know so certain technologies is that even if they don't
go off for wells that you know you're you're like, son of a bitch.
Now these whalers are out of business.
They can't kill whales and provide whale oil where they're like, you know, what's this
thing we're using now?
You know, we're using electricity.
I mean, there was a big pushback against electricity when it went right.
The oilers did not like it now.
But so this is where we're at is like, is this good?
Is this bad?
We don't really quite know yet.
It's too early to tell, but it's going to probably like anything is we're seeing it
in media right now is it's dystopian is we're seeing more pushback that this is bad than
it's actually good.
And, you know, in the industry I work in is that you got to be, you got to, I work with,
you know, with, um, within government, you got to be really hush i work with you know with um within government you got to be
really hush hush about how you're using ai you have to because why the pushback have you have
you read the department of wars like ai uh military strategy no i i don't want to read it
why not i mean it's like. The conversation is being brought up.
Summarize it for us,
Richard.
I'm half joking.
It's public information.
It's not like you're reading
I'm half joking with that.
So, yeah, go ahead.
Summarize it, Richard.
Oh, no, I can't do that.
You just said it.
Anyway.
He's pushing us into agency.
Death classified.
All right.
The thing is that, in my opinion, the screens will soon fade,
so people won't look at screens sooner or later.
And with respect to technology technology any new technology is firstly
adopted by not so many people that's why you see the bad actors if you remember when the blockchain
technology appeared we were seeing a lot of bad actors in that because we were not so many
now when we are many the culprits I mean, it's a small percentage now.
The same thing happens with any new technology. So you will see the bad actors because we are not so many.
But as soon as many of us adopted the bad actors, we'll be small in percentage.
And the second thing is that, okay, we don't think that screens are good,
but this is the only thing we've been doing as humans since 1975,
only social media and screens.
Of course, with some other research,
which is basically smaller than these screens and social media.
So in the nearest future, screens will disappear.
So in the nearest future, screens will disappear.
Why?
Because you will have a physical, I don't know what, robot, Android, call it whatever, to talk to.
And what I've seen out of my clients is that since they are using LLMs, they started to read again.
Because the LLMs generate text they started to read and I think Rift you agree with
me that what you read is one percent you you keep in your mind one percent what you see is
90 or 99 percent but that 99 is much much much smaller than the one percent you read
so starting to read what the LLMs respond to you and following their instructions, if it's
not autonomous or real AI, starting to read is good because the screens will become obsolete
in the nearest future. I wanted to get back to a point. Thanks for those insights, brother. I also
want to like just to say something to rock as well which is uh there's a really cool book it's called stolen focus some of you guys might have
read it by john harry and he really talks about how behind every screen which you say are gonna
go away soon which i don't i'm not sure about that but damn bro i'm curious let's see it happen
yeah behind every screen bro there's like nice nadim it's very nice it's a good book i especially
like another one called the scarcity brain it's like The point I'm trying to make is this.
Behind every screen, there's engineers being paid millions, working for companies worth billions of dollars,
fighting for every shred of attention they can get.
Our brains and our attention is just being sought over so much every single day, every moment,
to a point where, yes, we can say human beings are strong fundamentally.
We can take a lot of shit,
but we're weak in the face of our cravings,
weak in the face of dopamine,
weak in the face of trying to, like, get short-term pleasure.
And I think because of that, with technology as powerful as AI,
that shit could be used in such a sinister way, man,
to really manipulate people, feed them certain kinds of information, curate data to make them think a certain way man to really manipulate people feed them certain kinds
of information curate data to make them think a certain way harvest um direct them it's powerful
it's powerful technology bro now i'm not for one second saying the government shouldn't because i
dude screw the government but dude the average american reads less than three books a year
and i'm talking like i'm saying america because like that's like the leader of the western world
using that as an example but dude people's attention spans have almost fucking vanished
well and we're now in the world where the most disciplined of us and the ones like you know
people like rock people have like that ambition and that drive and that ability to stay focused
those are those are people that are going to make it bro but it's hard to be some of those people
it's not easy i'm saying the masses are not like rock what you're speaking about the attention economy is that our attention is the economy now
and and it's it's crazy you're right about it it's like there's sometimes i'll have a pc and
two laptops and an iphone open working all one time like switching you know what the hell's going
on i'm like i'm surrounded in this you know i've got
20 different types of software open documents i'm like what the hell am i doing you know
it's it's ridiculous our attention has gotten so spread out you know because we can do more work
but it's like this is the point where i'm kind of wondering i'm like man this is crazy this is
getting to be too much you know so i guess it's i guess i
still go back to i mean look i get a i don't want to use the word victim because it's it's just not
the right word because we choose these things ourselves i mean i i'm a victim of this too
though right i get distracted by things and then you know you get too distracted or you waste time and you pay
consequences so you have to keep strengthening yourself and you got to
keep resisting these things we've had versions of this our entire history
right humans have had alcohol for how long we've had you know drugs for how
long and you have to resist these things I don't know know. I just feel like, and maybe from like philosophically,
I think we should all focus on agency and not being victims. But then you got to look at
practically, I'll go back to again, what does that mean for the average person? Because in a world
where things become easy, people get weaker, right? The easier things become easy people get weaker right the easier things become the less struggle you
have man gets weak right and so that's kind of where we are I think society is becoming very
weak I think we're becoming very complacent I think you know look at America it's like 60 or
70 percent of Americans are overweight or obese i think it's like 45 or something percent
are in the obese category that's fucking crazy trying to call me fat i was indirect but yes
i'm glad you're picking it up no at least 45 percent of you are fat that's what that's what
rock is saying all right no seriously what do you mean by fat okay it's big boned yeah um the thing is that uh but you're right but that's what i'm telling
you bro i'm seeing like the effect that this has like dude for example your ability to order steak
or whatever it is and have it at your doorstep in 20 minutes that's not normal dude like we used to
go hunting for hours and days just to secure some protein like back in our hunter-gatherer days like
that's how we're biologically hardwired to be.
We're not hardwired to sit around the...
But I make the argument that,
but you also,
I think that's actually a huge plus.
You have the ability to do that now.
Holy shit.
You could just order whatever you want
at any time, healthy or not.
I mean, that's incredible.
And we should use this to our advantage.
And many of us do.
And then many of us don't
right and then i just get really like irritated i guess when i hear so many people you know always
wanting to blame someone else for their woes but when i but then i you dig into their story a little
and most of the time they're not doing what they need to do you know they're complaining that they
have no money for this or that but you go okay how many times are you ordering Uber Eats a week? Oh, how much,
you know, are you smoking? Are you, you know, are you putting any money away? You know, let me give
you an example of like how this, how strong this could be. Just one, one quick example, one quick
example. If you put the amount of money for a pack of cigarettes a day, I just guessed this and put
it into a compound interest calculator. I'm sure in california it's something like seven
dollars i don't smoke so i don't know but something let's say seven dollars a day for a
pack of cigarettes it's like 13 just by the way oh okay well a half a pack of cigarettes then uh if
you put that money away into just s p 500 We're not even talking about, you know, finding Bitcoin earlier or something. Just S&P 500. You would retire with 4 million and you would be making 400k a year in
just interest and dividends from your S&P 500 holdings. 400k a year. But what do people do?
They buy the fucking cigarettes. They do the stupid shit and it makes it hard for me to feel
bad for this. Well, do you smoke? For the people crying about this stuff. No, I don't
I mean I've got I'm not gonna comment on that
There's a reporter telling a smoker is like telling him that he's like yeah, dude, you know
To put all that money away you could have had this much money and you could buy yourself a Ferrari So the smokers like hey man, what about you? Do you smoke? He's like no, he's like, yeah, dude, you know, if you put all that money away, you could have had this much money And you could have bought yourself a Ferrari
So then the smoker is like, hey man, what about you? Do you smoke? He's like, no, he's like, of course, you're a fucking Ferrari
I mean
I think Brock has a Ferrari, I believe it, I'm just saying like it's a joke
Let's put it this way, I found
I found Bitcoin
I found Bitcoin at $225
And Ethereum at $13
And I put everything I had away. I sold everything I
owned to go in and I've sacrificed like more than I think most people would think is healthy.
Walking around with holes in my shoes. Like I did my interview with Mark Cuban, you could find on
YouTube. I was living in a garage when I did that, but I was worth over a million when I did that. I was still living in a garage, paying $900 a month in rent.
I'm the wrong person to ask about sacrifice.
I'm the ultimate sacrificer.
What we're talking about is people's ability to have free will.
And people don't want, what they want is free will when it benefits the thing that they want.
Free will means is that it has to be stuff that you don't agree with necessarily.
Right. And so free will is like this thing is like everybody wants that agency to do what they want.
But the minute that it doesn't benefit them or goes against their belief, they're against it.
Right. And it has to roll both ways.
And people don't get that anymore is that you have to have tolerance. Right. And while we were brought in and it's I'm sorry, but it is it's some it's a narrative painted.
The division is all part of the system is that without the division, we can't have the divide and conquer. That's a real damn thing.
And it's all been painted that way.
And this AI has been painted as a division as well.
This is anything that we find out down the road, whether it's COVID, 9-11, assassinations, you freaking name it, man.
It's all a narrative.
If we can pin blacks against whites and rich against poor, the government doesn't have to worry about us fighting them.
Well, I mean, the government's bipartisan on purpose.
It's designed that way in the United States is to have the division between a left and right, a black and white, whereas it's somewhere in the middle generally. And that's what you don't find anymore when we're talking about United States, obviously, is that it's about that division. I don't think we've ever been more divided in our life, in our lifetimes. I don't agree with any of that. I think we're actually a lot more unified than most people want to believe
or like any media or whatever you want to.
Well, let's just face it today.
Today's the access to some of the most like harshest
and like instant media or mudslinging
or any kind of just like messed up type of,
you know, I don't know,
like news or whatever you want to call it to manipulate
anybody is so simple and so easy so quick i mean you've got a million social media channels you
get a million all news outlets like half of this is definitely like manufactured well yeah listen
i grew up my generation and i'm just saying this from experience, and I grew up, I was born in the 90s, right?
Early 90s.
I didn't grow up with anything of race.
Like, that shit doesn't even make sense to me.
Like, I don't know where you grew up, but, I mean, like, diversity.
Well, are you a different race?
Do you have diversity in your background?
Have you dealt with it?
I mean, I'm like, that's what I just said.
And, I mean, I'm just saying, from the 90s and on, I mean, I'm like, that's what I just said. And I mean, I'm just saying from the 90s and on, I mean, I'm 35 years old.
I mean, I am basically the bloke of the generation in the sense.
I mean, the boomers are dying out.
Speak some Spanish, Richard.
I mean, that was my first language.
I mean, I speak a little bit of Python too you know uh slytherin but you know
just kidding uh two points gryffindor uh but you know like diver like we are a unified country
as americans like this entire idea that we are diverse and we're separate no i don't it's
bullshit it's complete bullshit like you look at the... I think you guys are unified. Like, I think Americans are now unified
over the idea that what they want...
I mean, look, I'm just an observer.
And from what I'm seeing on the news,
it seems to me that the American taxpayer is not getting what they actually want.
No, what you're doing is you're looking at this from an...
I don't think any taxpayers anywhere in the world are getting what they want.
Maybe some more than others, but... I think taxes i mean i think taxes and and government are like the the worst sham
roi for our money uh past the first i call it like 10 i think the first 10 like right now we spend
seven trillion a year in the US, the government does.
I think we could probably have not only 80% to 90%.
I used to think it would be that we'd have like 80% or 90% of those benefits with only
10% of the spending.
I actually think we would have like 500% of the benefits with 10% of the spending because
right now the government just gets in the way and really creates friction.
You're right about that. But I was involved in the consolidation of bringing in, and I hate to
say it, but is bringing government to a place that was unconsolidated. And I watched what the
development of that town did for 70 years without any type of regulatory oversight. And in a lot of
ways, it's better. But in a lot of ways, it's much worse when
you don't have that coordinated planning and regulatory framework to actually kind of to have
some order. But you're right, it's way over bloated, right? Like 10%, you might be right there,
but it's somewhere in the middle, right? Is that you can't go, when you build towns and you build infrastructure is that there has to be order to it.
And if you don't have it and it's all just chaos, that might benefit some things on paper.
But when it really comes down to is running something efficient, you know, is that there has to be that in the middle somewhere is that you have to have that regulatory compliance.
But make no mistake about it is me working with agencies over the years with federal agencies
talking about inefficient that's not even the word for it it's it's much worse than that
i mean right now the government everything you do the government has probably touched it 15
maybe 100 times right you drive a car do you know how many times the government has touched or
affected the cost of that car that what goes into that car it is not a free market it is not times, right? You drive a car, do you know how many times the government has touched or affected
the cost of that car, what goes into that car? It is not a free market. It is not capitalism.
It's crony capitalism. The government builds moats for companies and it destroys capitalism.
The government builds moats for companies. The companies then bribe the governments with campaign donations and
all of this kind of stuff. And it creates this, you know, incestual circle jerk of government,
you know, corporation. Corporations by themselves, I think, I don't think monopolies
happen naturally or that they last very long if they do occur. People disrupt, new companies come
along,
people like Elon come and break old companies
that have been around hundreds of years.
The way that monopolies do exist
is when the government gets involved
and starts building moats for them.
I think that then like if you're in California,
the government tells you what you can eat,
what you can smoke.
I mean, it charges you taxes on every piece of it.
Now they want to, in California, where I'm from, I live in Puerto Rico now. I'm in California at
the moment though. But the government is now trying to impose a miles driven tax. So they're
going to now spy on how many miles you're driving. The hell out of here. In California, they're
pushing this. They're trying to charge per mile mile driven thank god you can move from state to state as a united
states citizen because it gives you the agency to do that for now well but not so much unfortunately
isn't that isn't that like i totally man i echo that like so much is the the that's why i said
earlier i love the premise of america but it's gone away from that. So
the 10th amendment said that the states that the, well, it said that the federal government
only has powers explicitly outlined in the constitution and that everything else would
fall on the states. The states would get to make their own decisions and then people would be free
to move with, we have all these interstate commerce laws that protect us and say,
we can trade freely state to state.
We can move from one state to another
and we're still a citizen.
We don't have to get new citizenship
or something in each state.
So we can move and go where we're treated best.
Unfortunately, while that is there,
the 10th amendment is there in the Bill of Rights,
it's not actually held up, right?
If you move, Cindy asked me
when we decided to move to Puerto Rico,
why can't we go to Texas or something?
And I said, well, Cindy, still 38%.
I'm paying federally 38%.
Total, I was paying 54% taxes
with federal plus California plus like LA tax.
I think there's like a two or 3% LA tax.
But anyways, so total I was paying 54%. If we moved to Texas, yeah, there would be no income
tax, but I would still be paying the 38% to federal to do shit that I don't want to do.
I don't want to bomb brown people. I don't want to fucking, I don't want to do any of the stupid
shit our federal government is doing. They spent billions of dollars positioning aircraft carriers
and weaponry around a country that has no threat to the united states that 80 percent of americans
according to several polls are not even interested in having like does that tell you that we're
taking their oil tankers just outright like uh and spending trillions of dollars on forever wars
dude like what the hell's going on like here's the other thing too is like dude they're they're
like why do they have two maybe more than 200% tariff on electric cars from China?
Because they're cheaper and they're actually better than Tesla's.
Look it up, dude.
They're cheaper.
They run longer.
They're actually technologically superior.
And instead of encouraging competition from outside and forcing companies like Tesla to do better.
A lot of that also has to do with the actual flexibility and the amount of pollution that they're able to expel versus something like Tesla who is created inside of the U.
I mean, there's a lot that actually goes into a lot of these.
I mean, the regulations in America force the costs of everything to be double, triple what it would be otherwise.
I think a house – by the way, there's someone who wrote a book about this.
I read AI summary of the book,
but I haven't read the book.
But I've asked AI to calculate this for me several times.
And there's like different like senators
and Congress people who've talked about this.
But if you took the cost of building a house
and you take in all the permitting,
all the taxes, all the, all the,
then you have to include the taxes on the labor. You have to include the taxes on all the products
at every step of the way, the inspections, every step of the way, all the different environmental
regulate, all this, you have to combine all this. You could like, if it costs, you know, call it
300,000 to build a house in California. If you didn't have any of that, if we were like early America,
where you could just go build your goddamn house,
you could go cut some trees down and build a house.
If you were allowed to do that,
that house might cost $50,000.
And there's like, people have broken down the numbers.
Why do you think we have a problem
with affordability and housing?
Because the government is so damn involved in it.
We gotta go.
You gotta go.
Get a call.
Oh, shoot. Okay, guys. Very important. Very important. Very important call. All right. so damn involved in it we we gotta go you gotta go get a call oh shoot okay guys very important
very important very important calls all right all right guys uh great being here this was a really
cool conversation i wish we could continue it guys we were supposed to end an hour ago but we just got
too into it uh yeah let's have all you guys back this was this was amazing guys a lot of different
opinions a lot of uh great debates made me think. I learned a lot.
But, yeah.
Everyone want to say bye, and then we'll call it?
Yep.
Yeah, you got to go.
Yeah.
Bye, guys.
Love you.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you, guys.
We'll have another talk for you there.
I appreciate it, Rob.
Do a great talk, guys.
I loved it.
Take care.
Yeah, Darren, let's definitely have some of these guys back again.
This was great.
The rise of AI.
Yeah, we'll be doing AI-related topics probably once a month.
So, yeah.
Just go, man.
Just go.
You have a call.
Cheers.
See you, guys.
Y'all have a good one.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
