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The RWA Watering Hole #30
Recorded: March 19, 2026 Duration: 1:00:10Space Recording
Full Transcription
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do I'm going to go to the next video. The Oh All righty.
Let's get things cooking already here
since a little snafu.
This one we can't blame you on.
This one was me.
I rugged us by accident.
But we're back.
What's going on?
We're getting our speakers on.
I'm going to get a little link up here
so that anyone who wants to,
we appreciate the retweet repost and I hope everyone's starting off their Thursday today
beautifully
got our got our man Schofield behind the account how are we doing today man yo what's good
yeah a little bit of an issue there but we're back on
looking forward to another space
we've got three really good guests on
and looking forward to diving right in
and as always
we have these recorded
so we got a lot of follow on listeners
that come in and check out what we talk about
so definitely anyone else to step out know that it is recorded and we expect a lot of people to check back in
afterwards but we are going to get this going so i'm going to go ahead and do it myself
and retweet this out and uh and then i think we can start getting right into our guests here so
uh starting off here with uh let's start with meta since you're at least
according to my profile right next to me uh looking like uh you're with defy llama what's
going on man how are you tell us a little about yourself what's up what's up how you doing um
where are you coming from um i'm i'm currently in uh spain residing there hanging out nice you know just uh
just enjoying the gray skies i guess today i don't know
it's gotta be uh still gotta be pretty decent compared to some other places around the world
let me tell you i mean i i saw you were in mi. Normally, I'm based around there. Oh, right on.
I call Barcelona the Miami of Europe.
Honestly, it is.
That's why I'm chilling here.
It works.
There you go.
It's not a big leap.
I love that.
Yeah, I'm with Defi Llama.
I'm the head here of their RWAs and their digital asset treasuries so if you go and check
out the dashboard I've been the one who's been leading our development of
that it's been a fun build took a few months of labor it's been live now and I
think it's I think you should be expecting some more interesting developments in the next
week or two, honestly.
We're cooking in the
kitchen. We got some stuff coming
up soon that I think everyone's going to be hyped about.
Well, we're going to
poke into that a little bit more on
today's spaces, no doubt.
I don't think DeFi Llama needs any
introduction.
No, I really don't either that's
the best part of working with them you know so that's that's cool and yeah we're definitely
going to tap into exactly uh the rwa market and also what defi llama is up to but we also
we like to do things round robin on the spaces here keep things on our toes keep things a little
fresh so i'm going to move around the room here and introduce our next speaker here. I'm going to pick on JFAP, Jose, I think, from Hive. You there?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Good morning, everyone.
Good morning, man. How are you?
Pretty good, man. Having a great morning so far and feeling some great vibes here. So even better.
And where are you calling from?
Panama, actually.
All right.
We got a lot of good weather people, good, smart, smart people on the call here.
I love it.
I love it.
Now, I don't have the, you know, fortune, good fortune of knowing the Hive pitch.
So please tell us, give us the punchline, you know, what is Hive?
Absolutely.
Absolutely. Give us the punchline, you know, what is Hive? Absolutely, absolutely. So Hive is a real-time, permissionlessly verifiable data infrastructure.
It's focusing on tokenized RWAs mostly.
The issue or the gap that it is tackling is that oracles tend to be considered the solution
to verify, like to verify the delivery, the aggregation, and the integrity of data.
But they cannot guarantee that the underlying data reflects reality if the source itself is flawed or delayed.
gap that we're tackling by replacing the existing storage stack which tends to be
either aws s3 or cloudflare r2 or even data that is locally stored like we're replacing it with a
hyper optimized s3 compliant by the way for those who don't know S3 compliant means that you can switch from S3 to us,
literally in a matter of like a few clicks, object storage.
So to provide just a little bit of context in here, like a quick example,
right now, RWAs on-chain are all-time highs.
But DeFi TVL is down 34% in the same time in which RWAs have been up almost like 2x.
And this is because there's a lot of RWAs or tokenized assets on chain,
but these are not usable in a safe way, at least not now.
And this is exactly why we're building what we're building.
I love it. I love it. This is a great topic.
We've got some great speakers to be able to get into this in
detail, but we do have one more. I'm going to go around and give a chance to talk. And I believe
that's Ahmed with Zigchain. Is that right? You there? Yes, sir. Thank you for having me over here.
Yeah, absolutely. Welcome. How are you? Where are you calling from? I'm keeping well. I'm calling
in from Karachi in Pakistan at the moment.
So I believe you're covering
three continents with your speakers today.
I love that. Our interviews are
a global movement, right? And you
are highlighting that exactly. So I appreciate
that. That's awesome.
But I also don't have the
pleasure of knowing more about
ZigChain. So yeah, give us the punchline.
You know, obviously it sounds like you guys are an L1 or an L2. So yeah, just give us the loadout, please.
Yeah. So thank you so much. So we're a layer one blockchain, which is purposeful for
wealth generation. How do you achieve wealth generation or democratize wealth for everyone?
We believe it starts through real world assets. So it's pretty much what everyone is trying to do,
trying to bring every asset on chain.
But our focus is also then to make them available
in a democratized fashion for everyone.
But yeah, as the conversation goes along,
we'd love to talk about a lot of the things
that we're doing and bring our perspectives.
Don't want to hold up on... Well, you know what? We're going to we're doing and bring our perspectives. I don't want to hold up.
Well, you know what?
We're going to stick with you and do exactly that.
Let's do that.
We're going to start off with you.
So tell us the story of ZigChain, right?
Tell us a little bit about the founders and where you guys started
and how you ended up here.
And then let's get into what you're building after.
Amazing.
Thank you so much once again.
So yeah, our story actually starts about eight years ago.
We have three co-founders.
Two are originally from Spain.
One is originally from Pakistan.
Of course, you know, the world is very nomadic now and all of them live in different places.
is very nomadic now and all of them live in different places but uh but yeah like back then
uh bart uh he was trying to solve for you know this whole um era or this whole ICO era and trying
to make the most of it uh but his real problem was that there was like so much alpha out there
and unless and until he could be 24 7 up there was no way for him to capture on all of that
so he basically went ahead and built a tool for himself which would allow which which essentially
abstracted away all of the complexity from the investment process so he did not need to have the
time skill or knowledge to be able to partake in those opportunities and you know he could be doing
anything whereas uh you know the the technology that he built at the back end
would allow him to continue to make the most of the opportunity.
On the other side of the spectrum, Rafay in Pakistan,
he's partnered at Disrupt.com,
which is one of the largest venture builders,
most successful venture builders out of the MENA region
with a combined portfolio value of ventures built and scaled
in excess of a billion dollars.
And so, you know, just by virtue of that definition,
you can understand that that person did not have any absence of wealth.
But for him, sitting out of Pakistan and having like a Pakistani domicile
prevented him from accessing some of these investment opportunities
in more of the traditional markets.
So eight years ago, they started something called Zignali,
which essentially is an asset management platform.
If you do not know anything about the investment process
or asset classes or anything, you can come to the platform.
It's a three-minute sign-up process
regulated out of South Africa by the FSCA.
And you do your KYC, blah, blah, blah,
put some stables in,
and you can then invest money with asset managers.
And this is the model on which Stratify has scaled.
And I can share with you and the audience over here
that it has been very successful for us as well.
Today, we manage a multi-million dollar position on Zignally. We are one of the leading broker partners for Binance.
We have an increasing amount of real world assets that are being listed on that platform.
We have 1.2 million customers. We've extensively white-labeled the tech.
And like I was saying, the precedent over here is that if you go and look at the stock market,
back in the 1950s, only 4% of the US population had any exposure to stocks. That number today is 63%. And why that change has happened is because how you interact with the stock market has changed
completely. Back then, you had to do your own stock picking just like for example in 2018 bart was trying to do his
own trading uh but today uh you know you don't have to invest directly in the stock market you
can always place your money with an asset manager or buy into a fund and that is what you can do
today with zignally um two years ago we thought that okay uh you know this has been very successful but with
everything coming on chain uh it would be uh and and while the world does not need another layer one
uh the world does need a layer one which can really create and drive you know impact uh and
we believe that everyone no matter where they are where come from, what level of skill they have, or what level of knowledge they have, they deserve the opportunity to generate wealth.
And essentially, ZikChain was born with this idea where we're taking our learnings,
we're taking our technology, and we're taking our success from Zignally as a platform
and building a chain that is built for wealth management.
So tomorrow, you and I, we could be on the space,
but there is always a wealth manager.
There's always an AI agent.
There's always someone in the background who is a specialist,
who is working for our bags.
That would be my most simplistic way of putting it.
That would be my most simplistic way of putting it.
On the blockchain itself, we have a number of initiatives that are ongoing.
So we launched only six months ago, or rather five months ago, Roundabout Token Singapore.
And as of today, we have the primitives in place.
We have about $16 million in TVL.
We have about $16 million in TVL.
We have about $7 million of real world assets that we have on the Zignelli platform,
which over the next few months is going to all transition on-chain.
But really, from an ecosystem perspective,
while the early focus has been around DApps and the primitives,
what you're going to increasingly see,
starting with the ZikChain Summit,
which is 30 days away in Dubai,
which is our annual ecosystem conference,
we're looking forward to a lot of announcements
that come from the likes of private credit fintechs
that are launching products on our chain,
ESG fintechs that are launching products on our chain.
We have orchestration, one of the world's first AI-powered orchestration platforms launching
products on our chain, and a number of other initiatives.
So I believe for us, we're in that journey where we have completed that initial step
of getting set up.
And now is when the app layer scales.
Yeah, that's extremely exciting.
Let me make sure I got that right.
You know, you guys really started out with a wealth management background and platform with that very same mission that still exists today, right?
To make it possible for people to access these investments. But you realized you needed an RWA chain, a dedicated one that you built yourselves
that you're going to be moving all of the platform onto. And you already have a lot of,
as managers, it sounds like building on top of and preparing their own products,
maybe their own platforms, as well as maybe listing their products on your Zignoli platform.
Is that right? Did I catch that?
A hundred percent. Amazing. Well, that's extremely exciting. One more. as well as maybe listing their products on your Zignally platform. Is that right? Did I catch that? 100%.
Amazing. Well, that's extremely exciting.
I want to get back to you in a little bit,
because I'm sure you guys, with a quick answer,
give me a quick answer.
Do you guys have a native token powering the ZygChain,
or is it a non-token-based blockchain?
No, so back in 21,
we launched a utility token
for the platform Zigneli.
When we were looking to
go the L1 route, one of the main
questions was, hey, do we do
another token for the L1?
And I
believe the overriding feeling between the
founders and the team was that,
hey, we've built a great community
which is the ZIG community,
and we don't want to leave them behind in any way.
So the decision we took back then was that we decoupled the token, the ZIG token from
the platform.
It became the token for the layer one.
And voila, as of today, we are a highly circulating token with more than
72 percent of the supply out there um we know vcs it is a completely community-owned token
and and we're very proud of uh of ensuring that we kept our community makeup intact yeah you should
be proud of that that's awesome to hear congrats and i i think it is important to always keep that
community in mind.
And I think there's an obvious way to bring in the L1 into that as opposed to starting a new.
So that's really cool. And we are going to get back to that in a little bit.
I'm going to move on to Jose at Hive, specifically kind of more or less the same question, right?
So where are you today now that you understand this, what I would say is probably a critical
problem that most people in RWAs, especially whether they're the asset managers or even
maybe the tokenization engine and such, don't go this deep when it comes to thinking about
the data.
So where are you guys?
How are you guys kind of rolling out your your product
where are you guys focusing sort of you know who are your initial target customers or partners that
you're you're working with well happy token eyes before anything i need to say dude like i'm a fan
of your voice like you sound like a radio person oh thank you, bro. Big fan. Right on. Thank you.
And,
yeah,
like where we're at,
right now.
So like,
let me give you just a little bit of context before,
like Hive,
Hive's mission started a bit over two years ago,
led by two founders.
Dawit,
who is not here,
he's actually recording a podcast as we speak,
which is our technical mastermind.
And Chris,
who is, uh, among us, like a like shout out Chris, he's in the public.
They both spotted a mismatch, like a structural mismatch between just storage in general,
like data storage and the crypto ethos.
Crypto has always been this or has been meant to be this permissionless infrastructure, verifiable infrastructure that everyone can access to.
But whenever we look at storage per se, like almost every single DAP, blockchain, whatever you name it, like they need to store data somewhere.
you name it, like they need to store data somewhere.
And they use oracles to, like we said, to verify, aggregate, and stream data to some extent,
but they don't store it per se.
Like the data is still being stored in centralized silos.
Some of these, as we said, AWS S3, Cloudflare R2, or even locally. And they noticed that this
would create this big structural gap that wouldn't allow the crypto to actually be what it
aims to be, unless someone did something. So that's when they started building. That's when they started
onboarding like some of those early employees. And now we have actually been working alongside
a lot of very, very promising and big partners. Like we're lucky to have some of these phenomenal
partners such as Symbiotic, such as Lido. Now we're also working hand in hand with Arbitrum.
And there's a few other organizations that I still cannot name, but that have also
identified or related with the problem that we're solving and are now walking with us in this
journey, you know? And in terms of where we're at right now, I will spill the beans a little bit in here
and I will just say that we are very, very, very close
to launching our public devnet.
I'm not going to say any dates,
but it's very, very soon.
The only thing that I will say is
you won't even have to wait a month, probably.
Like, it's going to be less than a month and
yes in case anyone is interested feel free to dmos either on hives account like on hive handle
you can see hive i believe it's logged in here in the spaces and myself feel free to dmos and we
can give anyone access to try this out because we're very confident
on what we're building and we think that this can be a phenomenal addition to just the crypto space
in general we are not afraid and we're not scared away of like feedback we're actually embracing
feedback and we want to make sure that we're building something that aligns with what builders are looking for and what builders need so just leaving that out there uh that's i would say that's pretty good context in
terms of where we come from what where we're at right now and as i said earlier we're focusing
very much on rwas actually like the shout out meta here like because i'm a an avid user of defi llama actually
if you go into defi llama and you go into these like rwa tab right now you can see that the on
chain market cap for rwas dude it's like it's growing like like the growth is parabolic you know and the on-chain market cap has grown from what like
13 billion to now 22 billion literally in 2026 alone we're talking about four months you know
but if you look under the hood if you go to defy active tvl RWAs, it's actually down in 2026. It's down, brother. Like we're going from
10 billion increase in on-chain market cap to the actual utility or the RWAs that are usable
on-chain, like on DeFi being down, like numerically, monetarily, you know? So it's a big,
big gap that not a lot of people is talking about.
And you will start it,
if you haven't seen me already
kind of like shouting about it,
like on eggs until now,
like you will see me eventually
because we will keep hammering down on this
and we will very soon provide
a viable solution for this.
So Meta, actually,
like you're one of those people
that we want testing this. So Meta, actually, like you're one of those people that we want testing this.
So yeah, just putting it out there
and I will give back the mic.
Yeah, no, I wanna follow that up.
That was a great, great answer.
Absolutely.
Love also when we see watering hole opportunities,
collaborations can occur amongst the speakers.
It happens more than you think.
Yeah, I was gonna say like both of you guys just get in my DMs after this.
We'll figure out the way to get your stuff on here.
Love that, love that, love that a ton.
And we're going to get to you in just a second.
You're waiting so patiently.
But I do want to follow up real quickly.
Is there a token component to the Hive ecosystem at all?
As of right now, we are not exploring a token.
In our eyes or in our perspective, whenever teams launch a token, even if they have a great product, now they have two products to focus on.
And we pride ourselves for being lean and mean.
And if we launch a token at this stage or any or even if we start planning about a token at this stage,
I think it's going to be just diluting focus for the team.
And we are eager to put out a solution that is like the infrastructure solution that actually helps and tackles the
issue that we have been, that I've just named earlier in the space.
So I would say no, that would be the question as of right now.
But following up super quick on that, what we do plan to do is being the tide that raises
the tokens of all of those platforms that work with
us. And I will go into this a little bit later in the space. Oh, we look forward to getting into
that. It's a great segue. I'm going to move on with that, but I definitely want to jump back to
that. But with DeFi Llama, I mean, as you pointed out earlier, Jose, like it's one of the most high
quality, if not the most high quality signal for RWA data.
And RWA data is going to be critical for this market, as we've seen both in DeFi without RWAs.
Imagine when you got real assets tied to it.
Now, we want to get into crystal ball conversations, no doubt.
conversations, no doubt. But first, let's just give the DeFi Llama pitch right now.
But first, let's just give the DeFi llama pitch right now.
What stands apart from you guys versus other RWA trackers? Where are you guys focused and
sort of differentiating to say this is the most important thing that people can build that trust
and reliability for you guys in your day? One of the things we've always held kind of a pride with is that
we're not like um a few different things one is we're crypto first like as in like philosophically
we really do believe in the concept of don't trust verify um that's really a hallmark for us uh
we you know everything that can be found on, that's what we are first and foremost, prioritizing and showing as far as our data goes. We, you know, we're not people who are going to go ahead and cave to institutional demands for like displaying data when we can't go ahead and verify it ourselves.
We'll work with them happily, and we do.
But if there's no way for us to go through
and programmatically check things out,
it's simply we just can't in good faith display that data.
So we're a little bit more meticulous, I think, than others in that sense.
We're kind of trying to get TradFi to work from a more crypto sort of perspective in that sense, right?
You know, put a little bit more pressure on them rather than just caving into like,
hey, look, we'll follow your trust me bro situation, you know put a little bit more pressure on them rather than just caving into like hey look
we'll follow your uh trust me bro situation um you know and and most of the time with trackfi
they're already extremely regulated so a lot of it is accurate data right that they're providing but
if once again we want it from a chain-based uh place so um like we have a few different uh metrics as
well that kind of uh highlights this idea of trying to keep these rwas honest um so we have
these this uh like rwa xyz has the distributed versus represented value, which is a great concept.
And I think they're doing well with highlighting the difference there.
We kind of do something similar but different, right?
What we have is on-chain market cap versus active market cap.
On-chain market cap is active market cap um on-chain market cap and uh it's very simple it's all tokens
all uh by the rwa right and we price it so whatever is supply wise there um this is like the
fully diluted value you could say right and then we have active market cap active market cap is where it requires a lot more DD and effort, but that metric I find to be a little bit more important than on-chain.
A lot of RWAs have book values that they're showing as well as supply, and it's being held basically by that platform or institution right so what you end up
seeing is these inflated tvl numbers uh that are actually not entering in retail hands that are
not being traded these are like just uh mint burn mechanics in the background for their own internal
bookkeeping it's cool that track by is you know um making use of blockchain tech
you got to give them credit there right but um we want to see it uh you know actually going beyond
just bookkeeping right we want to see we want to see uh if you're issuing rwas uh and you're
claiming a billion dollars in tbl but then let then let's say 200 billion of that is actually off-chain,
but you're just claiming it as TVL,
I don't think that really counts as RWA TVL.
So active market cap is that concept.
We're taking out the treasury addresses,
we're taking out the treasury addresses, we're taking out the team addresses,
we're taking out any burn, mint, redeem loops,
any sort of almost sketchy-looking addresses
where we don't see token supply spreading out further.
Did you have a question? I'm sorry.
No, that was it. That was exactly
the answer that we were looking for to set the stage, which is right. We're diving into the
active, uh, active, uh, market cap. Yeah. And then we have one more, sorry. And we have one more,
which I think is the, is the like sexiest one that we have because I think, you know, obviously DeFi Llama, like it's in our name, DeFi, right?
We have insane amounts of data yield wise.
I don't think anyone really compares to us when it comes to yield data.
And obviously all of our yield data is coming on chain
and we have that very clearly established.
So what we're doing as well is we're finding for you guys already,
where are these RWAs being used?
How much money of like, you know, like if an RWA, like let's say a tether gold, right?
How much tether gold is actually in LPs?
How much tether gold is actually being used as collateral and being borrowed against.
And what we want to see, and you mentioned this earlier, we want to see DeFi Active TVL go up.
That's the real big breakthrough that RWA is coming on chain.
It's not bookkeeping.
We want to see the full decentralization and Lego building blocks use of these RWAs.
That's where the really big value unlock comes in with bringing things on chain.
So yeah, if you take a look on our site, you can hover over the numbers for each of these
numbers for each of these like uh active market cap on chain market cap defy active and if you
like active market cap, on-chain market cap, DeFi active.
hover over defy active dbl you'll see the breakdown right there for where like say tether gold where
how much money is in each one of these protocols so it's got like 85 mil and eight uh 10 million
in morfo 10 million uniswap 3 million fluid lending like you get to see all of that sort of stuff. So I think it's enlightening.
Sorry.
No, no.
You literally led right into my next question.
So, I mean, that's great, right?
Which is like, okay, we have the difference
between bookkeeping data, we'll call it,
and really actively used RWA data for DeFi.
And, you know, you just pointed out,
there was already a chart you guys are tracking
about what's actually the use case here.
So you're obviously deep in these conversations.
You'll call it your opinion,
not the DeFi Llama official opinion,
but when it comes to active RWA data,
what are you seeing is like the big push this year?
Everyone was talking about vaults last year, right?
We can deposit stable coins, back them with RWA strategies and sort of, you know, see that kind of impact.
There's obviously the stable coins in Treasury World where, you know, proof of reserves and other things are going to start playing a game.
reserves and other things are going to start playing a game but there's on-chain stocks that
are now taking you know a lot of center stage because uh you know of ondo and x stocks being
purchased by crock and many other players in the space right so yeah i would love to just hear your
thoughts on this i think everybody's dying to hear to be honest um yeah i i uh i really like looking at these numbers because we've seen a drop since the beginning of the year in terms of how much capital is in DeFi use for RWAs.
My personal opinion is that's more just the market being bearish because we're seeing it as on-chain and active market cap.
Those charts are going just like parabolic upwards.
So that's like the onboarding of these RWA assets.
So I think the biggest issue with why we're not seeing that same parabolic increase as well is fundamentally it comes down to regulatory compliance.
Tons of these assets, I mean, tons are mostly permission.
You got to, they're KYC gated.
In order to like transfer from one wallet to another,
you got to KYC that other wallet with them, right?
So if you're moving from like your hot wallet to cold wallet
and it's yours, you got to KYC that to move it.
So if you want to unlock it for DeFi, that's a whole big step regulatory wise. So what we're
seeing is, and this is something that's cool about these vaults, right? Something like Nest Credit,
right? What they've managed to do is they've taken a lot of these KYC-gated RWAs, and then they've made the vaults.
And they've gone through basically the trouble of KYC-ing and getting that kind of agreement with these institutional RWAs.
And now we can go through and we can buy them in a decentralized KYC-free manner.
And that kind of basically, like they're functioning as wrappers almost.
Right.
So now you can go ahead and integrate those in with the rest of DeFi.
So the regulatory compliance aspect is basically, I think, the biggest roadblock for everything.
I think now that like with the more money being kind of onboarded on for rwas
and the more normalized they're becoming the more we're getting that uh like kind of confidence that
it's okay to do these sort of things because i think uh i think these institutions no one wants
to be first to take that risk right because? Because then the eyes are on them for
how is the government going to potentially come after them if something screws up or like,
is it clear? I got to give credit to Figure here. They have their yield bearing stable coin yield, YLDS.
That's a SEC compliant, regulated yield bearing stable coin.
It's really quite dope.
That one you need to KYC to kind of onboard if you're going through them directly to get it.
However, they recently, I think like a few months ago they they dropped um something
called uh prime uh this is uh through uh an entity of uh of theirs called hastra and basically that
functions as like they made a wrapped yields version uh and then you uh and then you can stake
it you stake their wrapped yields and it becomes prime.
And this is all KYC free.
So basically, they're functioning as that intermediate who took the KYC risk, basically.
And they're offering to you, hey, we'll wrap it.
You deposit your USDC.
We'll go ahead and do the depositing and unlocking of yields.
And we're going to give you a wrapped version and you can go and use that into DeFi.
And that's really cool.
I mean, you're getting like 8% APY on a yield bearing stablecoin that has like 3% APY intrinsic
has like 3% APY intrinsic in it.
in it.
And that's actually APY that's not coming from like hocus pocus places,
but rather like interest from home equity lines of credit.
So it's like legitimate yield.
I think that's kind of crazy that like if you're going and depositing USDC,
you're able to unlock something that's getting basically more than 10% APY legitimately on-chain through regulated products with KYC-free.
So I think that's kind of dope.
So as far as credit goes, bigger, they're a NASDAQ-traded company.
They're the ones who seem to have done like something cool there where
they're like, you know what, we'll, we'll take the risk.
We'll be the first in line to do it. We got to set the stage.
So I think that, that sort of shows, you know,
to other people, Hey, it's the water safe, you know, come,
come in and we can play.
I think that's an amazing highlight of exactly where the world
is going to be headed and i think regulation can accelerate a lot of that but it's also proof in
the pudding that people are finding a will in a way yeah i think that's why when you're looking
at like active market cap on chain market cap and you're looking at them like going parabolic, we see the biggest numbers appearing for
two main groups of assets. One are the like gold and precious metals, right? We had the big run up
with gold and the other one is tokenized stocks. But if you're looking at them, the tokenized
stocks come with no voting rights. And most have weird methods of dealing with dividends so that like basically
it's removing that sort of regulatory risk that's involved with them. So by like having removed that
regulatory risk and making it not real true 100% stocks, that's why they're able to onboard those. So I think those now being used as collateral,
I think that's a big unlock.
Camino, you can do that now.
You can go ahead and take loans on your SPY or SPX.
That's kind of dope.
Yeah, that's the best of both worlds right we
got crypto defy with real world assets no kidding soos we got you up here my guy how are you this
week hello can you hear me yeah we got you
how's it going maybe we don't i'm not sure if the connection's good i've i've i've tried to join
and speak and listen and twitter's been doing its usual kicking me out so um yeah i've heard most
i've heard most of what's been said i just recently joined and listened in there to what um
meta was saying in regards to prime and figure and i'm lucky enough to have worked
alongside them uh in the background doing stuff and what they're doing is awesome it's a it's a
first of many i think and like meta said to be able to get eight percent on a on a stable coin
that's backed by proper heal up yield is it's awesome and then like you said you can go to
camino you can loop this stuff you can
leverage it up you know we're a dgen world here a lot of people aren't necessarily happy with that
and some are don't get me wrong but most of the d5 dgens want that 12 to 15 and above so
i think we're going in the right direction and i'm enjoying listening and uh yeah that's all for me
right i'm welcome in i appreciate that that insight and that is exactly you know the And yeah, that's all for me. Right on, man.
Welcome in.
I appreciate that insight.
And that is exactly the opportunity with DeFi merging into real world assets. It's one of the things we preach about here at the RWA Foundation.
Cheekily, I see it as a way to connect the world and bank everybody and create a true,
and bank everybody and create a true fair market for everyone.
fair market for everyone.
And I'm gonna pass it back over to Ahmed here with Zigchain
because we were talking about it a little bit earlier,
but kind of the same question for you, right?
Who are your biggest use cases and applications that you're seeing,
both from the asset managers saying,
hey, we obviously want to tokenize or leverage your infrastructure,
but also from the investor side, right, or user side on your platform.
Like, what do they want? What are they seeing in demand?
So, yeah, like in our work, we are actually dealing with a number of counterparties who come from more of the institutional audiences who are looking at blockchain to launch their next fund.
And really, from their perspective, what they're trying to launch their next fund.
And really, from their perspective,
what they're trying to achieve is wider distribution.
And then there are a lot of operators out there who also are looking to essentially bring these products on chain
because, as some of my colleagues over here were mentioning,
there is a huge opportunity when it comes to all of that
idle stablecoin capital or all of those people
who have been playing or parlaying in DeFi
and they want something which is backed by real world flows.
So from our perspective, we're seeing a lot of both.
So there are big name asset managers
that want to tokenize their strategies,
launch their feeder structures, which allows for stable coin capital in a regulated way to find
into their products. At the same time, we're also seeing a lot of operators who want to work with
some of these institutions and bring some of their products on chain for them to be distributed in a decentralized way.
And I think the key word over here is distribution.
If you look at broadly the space, whether that's a stratify or defy, nothing compounds alone.
And ultimately, you're looking for scalability
around distribution for these things to matter.
And some of the early things that we're seeing across the space,
whether that be stocks or some of these yield products,
the ultimate investor appetite is to be able to access these opportunities
in a way where they are not gated from them
and they are able to, at the same time, enjoy the upside from them as well.
From our perspective, some of the work that we've been doing,
especially out of the GCC region, has been around private credit.
Right now, we have two fintechs, one being Invoicemate, which is, by the way, launching their own vaults on our chain.
Right now, the yield on the SME or PayFi financing that they're doing to SMEs and remittance providers using stablecoin
capital the yield on that is about 13 and a half percent to end users you don't get those kind of
yields in DeFi and when you add the prospect that you could essentially create looping strategies
on them this 13 and a half could well be 15 to 16 percent um at the same time we're also working with a company
called abhi they are one of the largest private credit originators in the mina and pakistan region
in fact in pakistan they are actually a full-fledged banking institution and they have also
opened up a vault with us whereby you can tap into some of their products and the yield on that is about 11%.
Again, the prospect of looping around them
and the fact that you could collateralize some of this
creates that element of building yield upon yield.
And I think that is something where we also feel
that the industry at large is going to gravitate towards.
On the whole, there is definitely a shift that is happening, whether that be on more of the institutional side who care about regulation.
And then on the operator side where they do not care about regulation and they just want to make these available in a democratized way and i'm happy to say that you know we're sort of working on both
these streams working on both these elements and trying to you know create that environment where
we're able to control the full funnel because you really cannot have uh this uh this more d5
composable layer without actually bringing
that more regulated TradFi layer on chain as well.
So yeah, that would be what are the trends
that we are seeing on our side.
Wow, that's a really robust answer.
And what would you say,
coming out in the closing out on the show here, what would you say, you know, coming out in the closing out on
the show here, what would you say are your biggest targets this year or sort of, you know,
KPIs that you're measuring that you would call a successful year for what many are calling,
you know, kind of the year of tokenization? Yeah. So I think that's an excellent question.
Yeah, so I think that's an excellent question.
One of the theses that we have internally
is that every network out there
is going to have real-world assets tokenized on them.
But really, hey, what is tokenization?
It's just a line of code, right?
At the end of the day, what matters is traction.
What matters is whether these actually get distributed
and they actually get bought into.
Whether they're a regulated product
and institutions are buying into them
or accredited investors are buying into them
or whether they're non-regulated products
and, you know, communities are essentially parling into them.
And for us, that is how we sort of, you know, look at this air.
For us, it is about bringing these applications out there ASAP and over the next
quarter you're going to see a lot of them become available on our on our blockchain and then really
try to find scalability from a distribution perspective which I believe is something that
you know is very important from a data point of view as well because i mean you know you go to
some of these platforms and i and i understand that at least defi lama is now doing some great
work in terms of ensuring that you know we we have a clear pitch of what is actually happening
so 100 million dollar fund with only a 10 million dollar close is not 100 million dollars in TVL it is actually ten million dollars in TVL probably and for us
the the metric really is that you know we we take the strictest definition of success and make sure
that you know these these instruments they get distributed and while we are doing that we don't
really lose our makeup as a permissionless blockchain we continue to focus
on institutions because that is important to own the funnel but at the same time we do create
products that retail that the everyday person the the people who work on grocery stores the people
who are driving taxis the filton you know the the maids and, and everyday people like you and myself,
they're able to buy into them no matter where they are in the world
and no matter what is their level of income,
what is their level of knowledge,
or even what is their level of skill.
Well, you know, we are absolutely in support of that mission here
at the RWA Foundation as well. So I'm very excited for you guys. And congrats on the momentum going into this year. I'll ask the same thing to Jose in regards to sort of, you know, what do you think the best application is right now for Hive? You know, you said you kind of have an open call to people getting into your DMs.
Who's your ideal sort of target to say,
come and build us?
No, thanks for the question.
That's actually a great topic to touch on.
Going back to what Meta said not long ago,
there are many of these RWAs
that are actually already regulated, and that
means most of this data is, for the most part, very accurate.
Like, there will always be exceptions.
For example, if we go back to 2008, like, in theory, all of these were regulated institutions,
but we saw that, we saw what centralization and kind of like information or data silos can lead to and just the typical trust me, bro.
So there is space for these regulated zones or categories to be touched on or to interact with us.
touch on or to interact with us.
But our biggest focus right now is actually on all the tokenization and like tokenized gold and commodities,
exotic RWAs, different types of, how do you say it, solar and energy sort of products.
You know, as of right now, we're talking with a like a sovereign fund we are
talking with some large european energy power grids we're talking with some big mines all across
like asia africa even south america in terms of a global like of the global mining industry not like
blockchain mining or bitcoin mining like actual mining you know like blockchain mining or Bitcoin mining, like actual mining, you know, like
gold mining and silver mining type thing.
So it's, I would say these are the type of assets that we're mostly focused on precisely
because of the lack of regulation to some extent or the lack of transparency.
So this is the transparency that we want to bring on-chain. Because if we go back to DeFi Lama,
the on-chain market cap of these sectors that I just mentioned, the gold-land commodities,
the exotic RWAs, the environmental assets or energy assets, we're talking about over $6 billion in on-chain market cap. But if we look at the DeFi active TVL,
we're talking about $316 million.
So there's like a 20x gap to be filled there.
And we're not thinking in static terms.
We really don't think that the number regarding on-chain market cap
is going to stay the same way.
We think we're going to see parabolic growth.
And the idea is to be able to facilitate parabolic growth in the DeFi active TVL as well.
This is the part that Hive is focusing mostly.
And I know that we're running a little bit out of time.
So just to touch a little bit on what we, on what I mentioned earlier, Happy,
the part about being the tide that raises
the tokens of all of these ecosystems or protocols that are working with us.
For example, with the Arbitrum ecosystem per se,
since this is a blockchain ecosystem, we prepare,
we facilitate data, permissionless data clusters.
This means traditionally all of these fees, like storage fees, whenever you store or egress data,
like egressing is the term for whenever you need to call data, like pull data out of a storage or something,
and all protocols need to be egressing data all the time.
and all protocols need to be egressing data all the time.
All of these fees go back to these centralized institutions or organizations.
So this money that is being extracted from ecosystem, from protocols,
and going to AWS S3 to Cloudflare R2 and similar solutions,
with Hive's permissionless clusters and specific to ecosystems or protocols.
In the case of Arbitrum,
all of these fees would actually be going to the,
like to ARB, the Arbitrum token,
like ARB stakers to the Arbitrum cluster operators
and to the data poster
or the data originator itself.
So this would redirect all of those fees into this blockchain ecosystem,
making it more profitable and more sustainable,
besides actually providing the transparency and the composability that is needed for these assets to go in DeFi.
transparency and the composability that is needed for these assets to go in DeFi.
So I think that answer covers mostly pretty much everything about what are the major sectors
that we're focusing in and also how we're also focusing on some of these blockchain
ecosystems or protocols themselves, allowing them to be more transparent, more profitable,
more sustainable.
And it emphasized exactly the theme we are all preaching today, right?
Which is, you know, as I like to say,
we don't want the same old banks and asset managers that run the world today to be the same people
that run the future rails of finance, right?
So at the end of the day, DeFi is the only thing that's going to ensure that we have
a voice, that we keep these markets truly decentralized and actually truly free.
So in that regard, I think we can start to sign off here.
Well, we'll end it off around the room here.
Jose, quickly, once again, just share to everybody, you know, the Hive website or link and your, your, you know, request for any support.
Yeah, absolutely. Like, feel free to go visit our website, Hive.xyz, H-Y-V-E.xyz. And feel free to
also follow us on X, Hive, like at like at hive xyz you can follow me as well
at jose fabrega b like i mean you can just tap in my profile and follow me but yeah like
please keep an eye open anyone that wants access to our upcoming public devnet like feel free to
dm me like as i said we're not scared from of feedback. We actually are embracing feedback, and we want builder feedback.
So I'm very excited to just see what comes out of this,
and very happy to have been invited to this.
This was extremely, extremely exciting and productive, in my opinion.
Yeah, thanks for joining us.
It's been great to have you, and I appreciate that.
I'm sure we'll have you again on soon.
Same thing for Ana. Go ahead. Quick website and I appreciate that. I'm sure we'll have you again on soon. Same thing for Ana.
Go ahead.
Quick website and call to action.
Yeah, so you guys can find more about us at zigchain.com,
or you could just follow us on Rx.
We are very excited about the upcoming quarter,
like I was sharing.
A lot of launches, a lot of new things
that are incoming uh and then more importantly we have the zikshane summit uh that's happening in
dubai on the 28th of april um we feel that uh there is um really this air is all about uh going
that extra mile and making these investment opportunities
accessible for everyone.
And like we say, nothing compounds alone.
We would request and hope for the support of everyone
to make that a reality
for us to build a better world together.
I love it, I love it.
And good luck with your summit on April 20th.
We'll be following the journey.
But last but certainly not least,
Matt, close us off.
We all know the Dune Analytics RWA dashboard.
But, you know, give us what you want to close us off.
Yeah, defilama.com slash RWA is the place you want to be uh but also if you go to defi llama
just there's the metrics uh on the side button and click on rwa there you'll actually see that
we have like four different categories there for how you want to look at rwas we have rwa by chain
by category by platform we have a lot of toggles uh if you're looking at our charts we got time
series charts we got pie charts bar charts tree map charts i mean our thing is very playable um
for all of you in here you guys are all active uh like rwa people i want you guys to all like
look at it but this is this is built for you guys like i i'm a i'm a crypto nerd first like i wanted to
build something where we're all gonna like make use of it and stuff like that so i want you guys
if you guys want to see something on it just send it in my dms come like comment somewhere just let
me know i will make it happen somehow okay like let's make this something useful that I think we all stand to benefit from.
The only way we make it through bringing our crypto values forward with this rapid new financialization that's occurring
is if we're working as a team.
We all need to do this together.
Otherwise, we're just basically onboarding TradFi with higher tech and not really changing anything with the status quo of old school finance.
I think we want to have that transparency.
I think we want to have the freedom that comes with it.
I think we want everyone to be able to, you know, be their own bank fundamentally.
I think we want everyone to be able to be their own bank fundamentally.
And so if we're all like working together, I think we all benefit this way.
Well, what a way to close that. You're a strong anchor. I might need you to come on.
I'm happy to.
Fantastic. But also a great call to action, right?
Like that's an incredible opportunity for everybody to give feedback and collaborate and see what they want to see.
And I want to echo that for everybody here.
Everybody in this audience, not even on stage, is active in RWAs and likely building or supporting.
So check each other's profiles out.
You know, look at the cool PFP that you like and click on them and see what they're doing.
Maybe give them a follow.
That's what this is all about.
You know, the herd, as we like to call it the rwa herd is
working together as a stampede so we're going to make it all happen folks in the next next week
we're going to be back with another rwa watering hole as we are every single week but until then
i want to wish everybody an amazing weekend and happy tokenizing thanks for your time everyone
thank you bye and happy tokenizing. Thanks for your time, everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye.
