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The Stacks DeFi Show #63
Recorded: April 29, 2025 Duration: 1:04:48Space Recording
Short Summary
The Stacks DeFi Show 63 showcased significant advancements in the Stacks ecosystem, including the launch of innovative projects like Bitflow Finance and Zest Protocol, alongside strategic partnerships that enhance liquidity and yield opportunities for users. With the introduction of Flex Pools, participants can now enjoy enhanced earning potential and streamlined DeFi interactions.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Music All right. All right, all right, all right.
All right, all right, all right.
Let's get this thing started.
Just quickly checking if you can all hear me,
but based on the fact that Stacks has turned off the music,
I think we're here for Stacks DeFi Show 63.
So I'm very excited about this.
You know, this is just a space where all the Stacks DeFi Show 63. So very excited about this.
This is just a space where all the Stacks DeFi builders get together to have a chat for an hour and chat about what's new this week,
what's coming, what's exciting.
So the highest signal space in the Stacks ecosystem by far
and also the space where we get the chance to all catch up with each other.
So it's kind of like, think of it like an open Zoom call
where everyone can just listen in and get a sense of what's happening.
But yeah, of course, Friends of Stacks will ask us to say one thing
and then we can take it away, which is that obviously
everything is for informational purposes only
and should not be considered financial advice.
But yeah, without further ado, let's do some intros.
Because we have also some new people here, including Faris, who is a great friend and
also investor in StackingDAO and knows a lot about building DeFi ecosystems, so maybe not
as much about Stacks yet, so
he could nicely, you know, pick us apart.
But yeah, let's do some intros.
I guess I can very quickly kick off.
I'm Tycho, co-founder of Zest Protocol, the lending protocol on Stacks, the largest DeFi
protocol, Stacks in terms of TVL, and contributing to Stacking DAO, which is the LST on Stacks,
StakeStacks, StakeStacks, PTC, and all the good things that you love.
So when you want to earn yield on STX, then you know where to be.
And yeah, also previously core contributor to Stacks,
or still core contributor to Stacks,
but previously on the product side with the Nakamoto upgrade in SBTC.
But yeah, over to you guys.
Maybe let's start with Dylan, Rupes, Diego, Jack, and then we kind of go like that.
Sounds good.
Good morning.
Hey, everybody.
I'm Dylan, the co-founder of Bitflow Finance.
We are building the decentralized exchange for Bitcoiners.
We built Jupyter-style aggregators,
Uniswap v2-style liquidity pools,
and also Curve-style liquidity pools.
That's actually how we got our start,
and we have a major, major upgrade on that today
that I'm happy to share with you.
Yeah, no, that's right.
That's right. That's right.
Very exciting stuff.
Rubes, Diego, you want to go next?
Hey, guys, GMGM.
I'm Rubes.
I'm the co-founder of LeoCoin on Stacks,
which is kind of like a community coin on Stacks.
We've been going for about 16, 17 months now,
so almost a year and a half, which has kind of flown by.
We are Manib, who is the founder of Stax. We're his pet cat.
That's Leo. I'm also the co-founder of Stax Tools,
stxtools.io, which is a data analytics platform on Stax.
So you can see all your tokens, charts, swaps, transfers, holders,
and a lot more as well, but we'll get into that.
Yeah. Good morning, everyone. I'm Diego, co-founder here with Dylan on Bitflow Finance.
I think he did a good intro. We're also a decentralized aggregator and provide liquidity
infrastructure for many of the protocols on Stacks and Bitcoin.
Our goals to make Bitcoin easier to trade and earn and make liquidity flow.
So looking forward to today's call.
Lots to unravel.
Yeah, I'm Jack.
I'm the co-founder of Roo.
Roo is one of the community coins here in the Stacks ecosystem.
About a little over a year old now. I'm also a representative with Hermetica,
first USCH being the first Bitcoin-backed stablecoin. Very, very bullish on Hermetica and super bullish on Stacks for a very long time now. And I'm really excited to hear what the Bitflow boys have to say today.
You guys have been killing it in demonstrating the difference between recognizing the narrative
of building on Bitcoin and being visionaries in the space when it comes to building on Bitcoin.
And this is very cool.
I'm so excited to be here today.
Yeah, likewise.
I'm excited to have you and for all the contributions.
And Hadan Farris, do you want to go next?
Sure.
This is Hadan with the Alex Lab Foundation.
Alex is the largest tax on Stacks.
And we have a sister protocols uh
one is protocol a bitcoin connectivity layer and lisa for liquid stacking
and uh always happy to join you guys in the spaces and discuss the latest updates
yeah ferris here i appreciate you all having me on um i have an agency called crypto coach uh
basically we fundraise for
projects. So think like, you know, pitch decks, venture, that kind of thing. And then the other
side of the business, which is more relevant here, we design liquidity TVL programs. And they work
with various capital allocators like, you know, whales, family offices, liquid funds, you know,
DGNs alike, that kind of thing. So yeah, source liquidity for TVL programs.
So yeah, it's a little about me.
Yeah, that's great.
And we thought to bring Fires on us to pick some things apart
and just kind of go deep into the ecosystem and so on.
But really quickly, before we get to that, Dylan, what's new?
Something was announced an hour ago.
That's very exciting.
It's like the first thing that's pinned here on top, if we all go all the way to the right. But yeah, tell us what's up.
Yeah, happy to. I think this is the coolest thing we've built in the stable swap realm ever.
you know, in the stable swap realm ever.
And this is, we've launched our flex pools,
we're calling them.
And it's basically a way where you can have
your, like a regular token
and the liquid staking version of it.
You can have a stable swap between them.
So a great example of that, obviously,
would be stacks and ST stacks.
Super important to have this kind of liquidity pool because sometimes with liquid staking tokens, there can be a cool down period.
And if you want to be able to, in the meantime, hold that token and be earning that yield, but then maybe put it to work in DeFi or borrow against it or trade.
It's important to have this instant liquidity available to trade.
And when you combine that with the aggregator that we built, it's very powerful.
You can go from STStacks to all the other tokens in the STAX universe.
in the Stacks universe.
And this works not just for Stacks and SDStacks,
but it can work with Bitcoin and a liquid staking version of Bitcoin.
It could work with USDH and SUSDH, right?
So a lot of different stable swap opportunities here.
And I'll let Diego maybe touch a little bit on on the features he's been.
You know, I'm more on the tech side building and he's carefully crafted a better way to explain it.
But I think, you know, we've got some very exciting yield opportunities as well.
I think this will be the best place to earn with your stacks and your SD stacks.
And we'll be targeting like 10 to 20% APY on this pool with some boosted rewards for stakers.
And it scales quite nicely up to 5 million in TVL.
So we're at 100k so far in the pool that we've launched.
I'll be setting rewards here in the next couple of hours.
And yeah, very happy to see this live.
It's a very novel approach.
I don't know if anyone has done something like this before,
but the design of this AMM is something that we're very, very proud of.
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And that means very fast unstacking right from state stacks and state stacks btc also very cheap right maybe uh 10 basis points or something like that if
liquidity flows in today and there's also some yield to be earned right maybe diego or dylan
you can can share more what what the yield is if you uh if you lp which is i think very very good if you just hold stx right because it's uh
kind of delta neutral on the on the stx side yeah i think there's a one of the biggest upgrade from
the previous stacking dow pool is that you have to um when you provide liquidity you have to stake it
uh to earn trading fees this time you have full flexibility just by providing liquidity to the pool.
You're automatically earning those trading fees.
And then you have the option to stake it or in this case, farm it.
But what's unique about this, I don't think we've seen this anywhere, is on top of the value accruing to your LP position, which is normal on the AMM, when you stake it, you're actually earning more LP tokens.
So it's almost like a compound, right? So let's say you have $100 of LP tokens,
you stake it, now you're getting more LP tokens. And those LP tokens are actively earning,
even if you don't claim. So it's also adding to the tvl it's adding to you know the pool depth
so it's contributing to it as opposed to just receiving stacks or st stacks you're receiving
the lp token so over time this adds more liquidity to the pool it makes you know slippage lower it
makes fees better for everybody and as a liquidity, you're earning both on the trading fees and on the
staking side. So which we think is pretty, pretty awesome. Yeah, this is definitely like the most
capital efficient and cool thing that we've ever built. Normally with a stable swap, right? You're
supposed to it's just between two assets that represent the same thing, like a stable coin and another version of a stablecoin, or one flavor of Bitcoin and another flavor of Bitcoin.
But with liquid staking tokens, it presents a unique problem because one of them becomes more and more valuable over time relative to the other.
So STStacks becomes more and more valuable relative to Stacks.
like ST Stacks becomes more and more and more valuable relative to Stacks.
So, yeah, this FlexPool takes into account this midpoint factor
and does some crazy curve math that basically ensures the right pricing
and makes it, you can almost picture in your head like a seesaw, right?
Let's picture in your head like a seesaw, right?
And you've got maybe the ratio at some point is like, you know, 1.2 stacks will get you 1 ST stacks, right?
So you might have 120 stacks on the left side of the seesaw and then 100 ST stacks on the right side of the seesaw.
And that is like
perfectly TVL balanced for the AMM. That's the most capital efficient point. That's like the
equilibrium that it comes back to whenever people are arbing in and out of the pool.
And yeah, like Diego said, as more people are trading, these LP tokens that represent your
shares and your ownership of the pool,
they just automatically become more and more valuable over time.
The fees accrue directly to those LP token holders.
And if you stake it, we are just Bitplo out of our treasury adding additional emissions
on top of that.
And the cool thing is that these emissions are paid out in the LP token.
So it's capital efficient because they just, you know,
even your rewards are earning more rewards.
And what's the yield on STX?
On staked STX?
Well, you would know better from StackingDAO, right?
That we know, but there's extra yield, right? Yes, there's extra yield on top of that.
So you have that yield and then you have the organic trading fee, which on a stable spot
could be anywhere from maybe like 0.5% to 5%.
But then we have this boosted rewards on top, at least for a few months that scales very
nicely up to 5 million. And that's an additional 10 to 20%. All right. All right. So basically,
that means 30% on STX, right? So 10% on stacking DAO or 9, 8, 9, and then put it on bit flow for the state stacks stx pool and then yeah there's
another like 10 to 20 percent on top so that's that's really nice it's compound another another
part of why we're calling this a bit full flex pool is we've seen single-sided liquidity before
stacking that was actually the first pool on biflo with single-sided liquidity before. Stacking DAO was actually the first pool on Biflo with single-sided
liquidity. We have added that to other pools such as your SDH. But this is more than just single-sided
liquidity. You can come in with any amount of either token on any side in a single transaction
with no fixed ratio. So as opposed to just adding stacks or ST stacks, you can add both and any amount.
And the pool will balance itself and add your liquidity.
Or you can just do one side or two sides, whatever it is, or you can match it if you want.
There's still an option to match pool ratio.
But this gives you total freedom.
So if you have 10 ST stacks and one stacks, you can do it.
If you have five, five, you can do it, whatever it is.
So that gives the user full flexibility when providing liquidity
without having to do multiple transactions as well.
Great.
Great, great, great.
But yeah, I just want to make sure we kind of keep the pace up
because some people also have to get going in 10 minutes.
But no, Graham, I think maybe we'll get back a little bit later
maybe if other people have
questions as well about
the pair.
I got a couple other features I want to drop
at the end.
Yeah, that's great.
Let's do that for sure.
But just as a quick
recap this week, okay,
so we have got really deep state stacks SDX swaps,
so that's going to also allow much more leverage on Zest
and other great things.
Then also on the weekly recap on the Zest protocol side,
leverage is very cheap.
There's a lot of USDH that can be borrowed,
a lot of AUSDC.
It's sitting right
now at like roughly two percent two three percent to borrow stables on on stacks so very very
attractive rates also saw a lot of a usdc in uh inflow this uh this this week and then of course
we're at uh token 2049 quickly pinned here a quick picture with uh with the man himself you know
that money posted and uh it was even staking staking summits today so we had a lot of
conversations about staking and um and and stuff like that um and also a lot of meme activity that
we should should get to in uh in a second but um but faris i mean i know you have to kind of get
good going soon but um you
know you're kind of hearing what everyone does here and kind of understanding the ecosystem
anything you want to ask people or any yeah yeah just want to kind of uh bring you into uh you know
jump in and kind of uh take it over for a bit i mean the yields sound pretty good right um and
they've been sounding good for a while
because, like, you know, other people kind of, you know,
reach out to me like, hey,
and I don't know the names of all the companies,
so bear with me, but, like, Hermetica, I think, comes to mind,
if that's how you pronounce it.
A lot of people send me, you know, send me that
and cite the yield and, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
I think, like, and obviously, you know,
Biflo, you know, has mentioned some cool features and some yields, and obviously, you know, Biflo, you know, has mentioned some cool features
and some yields, and obviously you got your company. So I think that one thing that is just
like puzzling to me is typically when these chains have like juicy yields on like, you know,
the native asset and then stables, typically it just drives a lot of inflows, right? And then
it just seems for like a half decade to a decade stacks with
it i don't know if the yields have always been like this and i know the ux has been a problem
in the past right you know just has been a problem it usually creates like a organic inflow of tvl
right because people just want the yields and they're willing to go wherever the highest field
is because they go because like you know bridge risk is like uh not a factor right because they're
bridging somewhere to do the same thing.
So I'm interested to get everyone's or somebody's perspective on like, why they're just not a natural inflow of capital into stacks as a result of these yields existing, like in haste.
Like people are willing to do it for Baruchain as the price goes down, right?
So my only thinking here is that people just don't believe in the stack's asset enough to want to hold it to then get the yields so yeah it depends i mean there's of course stx right but like for that
you have to have stx so that's not really coming from from anywhere right um i would say for other
yields for stables and and things like that i mean um well for one there is not really easy
way to bridge into stacks today right i mean there's all bridge for a USDC. It's on a deprecated bridge.
Probably Stacks is the only one that uses it,
but there's no Layer Zero or XLR or Wormhole today.
I mean, XLR is the first that's coming,
but it's been in the pipeline for a little while.
So I think today, if you'd have like,
you know, 5 million USDCs sitting somewhere, like to get that to Stacks,
it's not going to be a very easy feat or not going to be using the same tools that you used to, I don't know, like, you know, switch between Barachain and Suey or something.
Got it.
So like, I mean, who from like the stacks, it seems like a lot of the, maybe some of the bottlenecks or maybe some of the, you know, I guess you could say blockers, right.
Or impediments to these inflows are kind of more of like a stacks level thing,
like bridge relationships, for example, or a protocol infrastructure.
So like, you know, it's been, you know, wormhole has been around for,
you know, three years, like, you know, what's going on?
Is it that, you know, no one wants to pay them?
Like, what do you think the bottlenecks are?
Because like ultimately new chains get these bridges on day one, right you know stacks is on day you know insert high numbers so like what
do you think like the the friction is yeah i would say that um well for one sure a bunch of new chains
can get these things on day one but that's you know because they're evm or their move vm or
whatever right so they're there's something that they already have, right? Which makes it fairly easy to integrate.
Whereas in this case, you know, Stacks is Clarity VM,
so it needs to be a custom integration.
And then I would say, I mean, obviously, you know,
not speaking for Stacks itself, right?
But like what I know from how some of these conversations
have been going is that, you know,
more often than not, these conversations go and then wormhole comes with something like, oh yeah, that's like $ going is that you know more often than not these conversations go
and then wormhole comes with something like oh yeah that's like 10 million dollars you know
and uh and that like only kind of comes comes down or basically you know um yeah kind of accelerate
or then you sort of you maybe say yeah sure we'll do it and then like they're like okay cool we're
now going to do bear chain like see you in six months um and um, we're now going to do Baruchain. See you in six months.
And so the sort of way to do that or get that down and get it prioritized is when there is, say this time last year when Stacks was going through the roof, right? Like a lot of these things started to get moving or came through, right?
through, right? Like, that's also what, like, the Fortify integration came from, right? To
That's also what the Fortify integration came from, right?
actually deploy from a custodian into stacks, like, you know, BitGo stacking, you know, and all this,
all this kind of stuff. So, but the Axis is close. I know the other ones are being worked on, but,
like, it's kind of a chicken neck momentum type thing, I would say.
Because, like, throughout the years, I definitely heard, like, some great updates of, like, you know,
product updates, let's call it, from, like like different dApps on the, in the ecosystem.
And like, this kind of reminds me of early Solana, like all the founders are kind of
friends with each other.
And obviously, you know, when you look at the flow of money, your products kind of like
intertwine with each other.
It's like, you know, users deposit here, borrow here, do this, do that.
So yeah, it'd be kind of interesting, more interesting to see how we can kind of like you know maybe get this like tvl tv up a bit because like you know stacks is like i
think i don't know what's at right now like i think it's like 100 million or probably like
thereabouts which is like it's it's pretty low right and like i think where we were kind of last
talking was like you know my and i don't know the intricacies of it right but like what i, what I do know is like, you know, Stacks has been going around the world, sourcing
BTC, bringing that BTC in the ecosystem.
And obviously that benefits a lot of, you know, you and others on the call and things
like that.
But I guess like my one concern, if like you're incentivizing that BTC sourcing with Stacks,
the token, eventually that's Stacks, the token going down.
Right.
Uh, cause they're, you they're paying out X amount of emissions
to get that for a certain amount of time.
So yeah, that was just kind of my main concern.
And I just was curious of how people are thinking about it,
how, yeah, just how the inflows are kind of working
from those efforts.
Yeah, so BTC, SBTC currently has a yield in BTC,
which I guess the stacks ecosystem entities generate right
through uh through staking their stx which yields btc so it's not that's not necessarily i guess
creating more downward pressure than than on other tokens i think also important to remember right
like um stx is a fully unlocked token right so there So there is no sort of, you know, VC unlocks
or things like that coming, right?
Challenge on that.
So it's like, just like from a first principle perspective,
if you have BTC, hey, Tekka, I need 10 BTC.
Cool, what are you going to give me?
I'm going to give you a STX token, right?
That's what I'll give you back.
You can put it on the chain, do whatever you want there.
You know, put it in-
People today get BTC
for putting SBTC on stacks.
But ultimately,
you're convincing them to do that here
over somewhere else, right?
Yes.
So then ultimately,
you're paying them
an added boost of emissions
or some form of monetary compensation
for that opportunity cost right and if i'm not mistaken that opportunity cost is paid for
in stx token from treasury right it's paid it's paid in btc token uh sbtc so i think where we're
kind of like missing each other here is like i understand when you deposit it on the chain
that's what they're getting from like a product standpoint.
What I'm saying is that every, anyway, I could do that right now
and I would get that.
Right.
Yeah.
So what I'm saying, I'm presuming that the, you know, stacks is then
paying extra, let's call it from the assets they own to then incentivize
that human to then deposit that BTC and then get that reward.
Right.
So it's that reward.
So my whole like theory here is that like, if you're, you know, sourcing all this BTC and using STX as a token as a isolated asset to add a boosted incentive to do it, eventually that STX, which is, you know, eventually that STX gets sold right from treasury into the market so not from
treasury no because they they you know the treasury is an stx right and for staking stx
they get they get btc um so there is not necessarily uh stx being sold that's not otherwise sold
which is i think one of the interesting things about Stacks. But yeah. If I may interject, I think we all are missing each other here
is we've got two different mechanisms we're talking about.
We're talking about BTC in terms of proof of transfer mining
and STX reward.
Then we're talking about BTC and then SBTC.
So maybe some clarity on how those two
things are different might yeah you know create a meeting of the minds here if we do uh insert that
clarity if you if you have it yeah so when someone mines you know when when when a bitcoin miner
for instance you know says okay i'm going to participate in Stacks
mining, you know, Bitcoin is used to secure the Stacks network, right? That's how the mining works,
you know, since forever on Stacks. When now when you're talking about what has happened recently
with Bitcoin coming to Stacks, that's a one-to-one peg with, you know, to get the SBTC asset,
That's a one-to-one peg with, you know, to get the SBTC asset, which is then the idea behind that is to use SBTC in DeFi applications while still having your same Bitcoin exposure.
Because you can change out your SBTC for BTC at any time, right?
Well, once withdrawals, you know, go live here.
withdrawals, you know, go live here. So that's, I think that's where, where we're missing here is
that, you know, the SBTC is just programmable Bitcoin. It's just bit, it's like WBTC, except
it's better. It's more decentralized. So you can use your SBTC and various DeFi applications,
you know, not just here on stacks, but eventually throughout crypto, right?
And then your Bitcoin used to mine STX.
That's the consensus mechanism.
That's just a different thing altogether.
Maybe that's helpful.
It is.
I have to bounce off,
but I'm going to join next week to pick this back up.
We'll keep you to it.
We'll keep you to it.
Let's see you next week all right see you
buddy thank you bye great great great great great great good well yeah i mean um for us has a lot
of experience building these these ecosystems i think uh you need to do a bit of more collective
effort to to get them up to speed and everything that's going on but yeah
I thought it would be fun to bring him on to kind of like
you know get a bit of an outside
perspective on how things work
and stuff there
but yeah
I like that you brought him on
it makes the show more
just enjoyable to have folks that are not
in our bubble come through and ask
questions. Yeah exactly I've spoken with him a lot privately as well and he's um
he's he's seen a lot of ecosystems being built from very early on right so solana and obviously
ethereum before then and sort of understands very well how all these sort of protocols interact and
now is helping a lot of other ecosystems like that are emerging with with tvl
deals so um so yeah he's sort of like very defy defy which um yeah which also means that maybe
you know some of the specifics on stacks are not not sort of fully fully understood yet but um
um but yes it definitely would be fun to chat with him a bit longer next week to uh
um yeah to kind of see what,
what,
what he's thinking of that maybe we haven't thought of,
but I would say,
I think we've probably thought of everything already.
We're just,
you know,
gotta,
gotta get stacks to,
you know,
launch the rocket booster for all of us,
but,
yeah,
a lot,
a lot of big brains in the ecosystem.
No doubt.
Exactly.
Exactly.
yeah,
but speaking of big brains,
like,
how's everything uh
in alex land going any uh any any any exciting updates from you guys
uh sure from our side let's see um so just yesterday we announced with our asset recovery efforts, we've recovered another 350k stacks from a SEX that will be distributed at the end of Q2.
The past week or so has really been a bit more of the rollout
of the Xlink rebranding towards a protocol.
But it's more than just rebranding towards uh towards the protocol um but it's more than just a rebranding
the bridge um I think with protocol especially I think uh what I'd highlight would be something
like uh like like bro swap where um you know the the idea there being that typically now when you
send uh Bitcoin to other to other L2s uh you know those, those assets exist in the L2 wallets rather than
on Bitcoin.
And so with protocol, it's a bit of bringing DeFi to Bitcoin and the other way around.
So directly from your Bitcoin wallet, you can do a one-click swap with a Uniswap like
wallet you can do a one-click swap with uh with a uniswap like ui um and then that'll bring those
those assets onto onto your bitcoin wallet that say either stacks as a brc20 in the future it
would be something like uh rapsolana as the brc20 um you know brosSwap connects to major techs aggregators like KyberSwap and Matcha.
Jupiter integration is planned for the end of Q2.
So it does provide this sort of ideal routing.
But, you know, the idea there being that you from your Bitcoin wallet can basically hold all of crypto, you know, directly as this sort of L1 asset.
You know, swap it with an intuitive one-click interface. You know, so I think it's a little bit of a different approach than has been
taken so far. And, yeah, you know, currently we have Naqib, who is leading those efforts. He's in Dubai meeting with some people,
but hopefully we can have him on next week.
But yeah, that's been kind of our focus.
Also, this week we do have them going to an internal testnet,
so that launch is getting closer and closer.
And also, I believe that hopefully
relatively soon in the next two I think
we'll have the SPTC3
in the
beginning of withdrawals
and alongside with that we'll have the
Search4 campaign going live
and so yeah lots of
exciting stuff happening
so yeah glad to provide those updates
Wow very exciting Lots of exciting stuff happening. So, yeah, glad to provide those updates.
Very exciting.
And then also this week on the making moves is the cat on stacks.
Oh, sorry.
I was going to mention.
Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead.
What were you going to mention?
No, no.
Just a bit of a teaser.
We haven't quite posted it yet, but maybe in a few hours after this space, it'll be something I'm very excited about, a bit of a collab or partnership
between Alex and Zest.
That's right.
Yes.
And so do keep an eye out for that, guys.
That'll be good.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
For sure. night out for that guys that'll be that'll be good yeah yeah for sure for sure but uh yeah
maybe to uh yeah lift a bit of alpha for for everyone who joins here but uh alex that's uh
let's uh let's let's uh let's check that out but um dylan you want to say something
yeah i'd love to i'd love to hear a little bit more about the Jupyter integration and what it's been like working with them.
I mean, it's still an ongoing work in progress.
Obviously, integrating our salon and bridging efforts
have been one of the more challenging,
given the different chain signature structure that they use.
But I guess to get more into the nitty gritty details,
I'd have to get Chan onto the space.
But, you know, so far it's been a collaborative effort.
It's just been, you know, the typical technical issues
that we've been sorting through on our side to make that happen.
But, yeah, we're excited to bring that live sometime queue through.
So that's, you know, maybe like a three-month window to get that up and going.
Nice. Very cool.
Yeah, I saw they released some updates recently about swapping any token for any token.
I think they were trying to go a little bit chain agnostic.
And it would be interesting to see how that expands into the Bitcoin ecosystem as well.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely, for sure.
Cool.
Big stuff.
And I know, Rubs, you've been very patiently waiting.
So definitely wanted to put the limelight on Leo for a bit
and everything that you guys have been working on.
But yeah, it's been a big week.
Yeah, no problems at all.
I've been enjoying the conversations, actually,
especially with Farris as well.
I think there's some good stuff brought up there.
And I think his DMs might start getting flooded
by various stacks, people trying to give information there,
which is good, you know.
We need new people into the eco,
especially people like that.
So that was quite an enjoyable conversation to listen into.
With Leo, it's been a big week.
It's been a big, big week.
It was his birthday on the 23rd of April.
So Leo's birthday, Manib posted, which was a nice little touch.
So he posted a picture of a selfie of Manib and Leo, the actual IRL cat.
And it's been a big week in terms of quite a few things for Leo,
for price. I think we're over 50% up on a week. It's kind of cooled off a little bit,
but at one point we were probably, I think we doubled or even more. So yeah, big, big, big week
for many Stax tokens, but a lot of the OG kind of community coins, especially like Leo and
others like Welsh and Roo. We surpassed Welsh in liquidity, so we're higher liquidity than Welsh at the moment by about $25,000.
That's the first time that's happened for quite a while, actually, so that was a big shift.
And then also in terms of the seven-day volume as well, we posted 176k in the last seven days,
We posted 176k in the last seven days and Welsh was at 145k.
And the third meme behind that, Satoshi AI, Satoshi AI was 21k.
So we're putting up some considerable numbers for the volume and the liquidity side this week.
Yeah, maybe just, I'm sure this really went to the balcony, but maybe tell us a bit why that's important because like
why liquidity for a token is important and why that matters more than the exact price.
Yeah I mean it's a particular metric that it's very important to follow for lots of coins but
particularly for meme coins because you know if you're looking at kind of investing in a coin or you know whether we use
the term invest for meme coins i'm not sure but you know if you're looking to put some money in
you know have a bit of fun with some meme coin you want to look at the liquidity because you
could have a vault you know your market cap could be let's say a million dollars, let's say, a million dollars, but let's say the liquidity is only $10,000.
That's, you know, it's a high, super, super high risk asset, you know, and the ratio is terrible
there. So Leo's market cap, we kind of have like a 10 to 1 liquidity ratio, which is much, much
stronger. You know, many, many coins have, you know, 25, 30, 50 to 1 ratio. So 10 to 1 is a pretty standard and considered quite a strong ratio for meme coins.
But it is very important because you want to check out that data.
I'm also mentioned at the start of the call, I'm the co-founder of Stacks Tools as well.
So you can check all that kind of data when you're looking into buying into coins.
You can see the market cap.
You can see the liquidity.
You can see the holder ratios, you know who holds what percentage of tokens, you can track transfers and swaps and that kind of thing. So you know it's good to
be aware of what you're buying into before you actually decide to put your money into it.
Yeah and I think maybe especially important you know it's like new coins are nice to buy, but you also maybe at some point want to sell
them.
Generally, when you buy a token, when liquidity is high, it means that you just don't move
the prices enough.
Which also means that when you want to sell a token, you don't move the price as much.
And I guess that's a very important thing, right?
Because there's only so much liquidity.
So there's only so many people who can get in and so many people can get out. And if the liquidity is very small, then it can go
up really fast, but it can also come down as fast, right? Whereas if the liquidity is
high, it's basically more stable in price.
Yeah, 100%.
Definitely. And that's where they're already a relatively risky asset,
especially some of the new ones that pop up left, right, and center.
So yeah, having a strong liquidity is important.
I mean, Jack knows a thing or two about this.
Yeah.
No, it's a lot of...
When you look at Solana memes, for instance,
and people will post a screenshot,
that's like paper gains because if you only have $100,000
worth of liquidity and your market cap is like $30 million, that's all paper. It's like fractional
reserve banking. If everyone tries to withdraw at one time, you know, someone's in trouble, right? And in many cases,
a lot of people are in trouble. And so, you know, even with Roo, you know, we have $183,000
worth of liquidity and our market cap's like $280,000 or so, $250,000. We wanted to make a
different kind of token, right? And it's it's cool and it's interesting
because with with tools like you know stx tools and stx watch it can be very educational for
retail um when they're coming to the ecosystem and first learning you know there's there's a lot
of nuance in this space and and the quicker you learn it the better and i just wanted to say i've
been dying to say it's hadan like broall, that's like the best name ever.
So, like, good job, guys.
Like, I love the Brodacall.
Thank you, thank you.
I can't believe that that wasn't taken yet.
Yes, we were equally surprised.
So then they were like, all right, we're taking it,
we're doing it.
Awesome.
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
No, that's great.
That's great, that's great that's great that's great so um yeah green green pastures ahead for um for for for leo right and uh also one fun thing and it's like
you know hadan i've been texting you quite a quite a bit about this right but like
you know the fact that leo is like compared to a, right? It's also like an interesting feature, which kind of
means that when
Alex price goes up, then Leo goes up too,
right?
And also means that when someone buys
Leo, they're basically buying Alex
and locking it, right?
Right, because
when Leo was created,
about 95% of the
supply was put into the lp pool and and
burnt and so you know it's very it's very strongly anchored uh i guess you know um almost like
irreversibly so and uh yeah considering that uh you know alex where we we are in this sort of the
long haul we continue building um you know uh in the past
weeks or so there have been days where uh our price performance has outperformed even stacks
by a bit um yeah then that's also you know a big boost to Leo along with it and so uh and so yeah
the two are are quite are quite tight and in fact uh you know you could almost say Leo is as much
as Alex's mascot or pet as it is Muneeb's at this point.
So yeah, I think it's a good symbiotic relationship
that's there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, but all very exciting.
And then especially with the DAMM coming up for Alex, right,
which will be revolutionary revolutionary for the for the
stacks ecosystem so not very very excited about about that and um yeah and other other news too
as i'm just quickly checking what uh what's up yesterday uh i was in i was in abu dhabi and um
the um there was the the announcement was made that SDX has officially got its Abu Dhabi Global Markets license
for the Stacks Asia Foundation or through the Stacks Asia Foundation rather.
And yeah, that basically means that SDX is like the first Bitcoin layer
that's sort of officially recognized as a legitimate project
by by Abu Dhabi global markets which um yeah it's like a you know that's that's definitely a
a big thing you know a lot of L1s are are racing to kind of get this uh get this license approval
and um I mean yeah it might seem like kind of like a sort of very um you know elusive thing or something where it's maybe not
necessarily clear what what the benefit is but basically what it means is that if you're a family
office in the middle east or like you're a government sovereign wealth fund right in abu
dhabi of some kind then um you can only invest in projects that have an official government license, so to say.
And STX has that.
I guess that means that Shakes can start bidding, essentially, as of yesterday.
So that's maybe the very dumbed-down version of what just happened.
And RUPS, they like cats too a lot in
this country so um just fyi but um but yeah i guess leo it does not come yet with the with the
abu dhabi global markets uh official license so um that will have to wait a little bit but uh but
yeah we can uh sure we can pitch them on pitch someday. Soon. Soon, soon, soon, yeah, exactly.
Rumor had it that Leo was also in Abu Dhabi
when the SDX got its license there.
But maybe that would be a good meme,
like Leo the cat in, like, you know,
Thobe, essentially, right?
Like the traditional Arab clothing
as officially licensed cats or something like that.
Give me five minutes and
that will be okay.
Great. Good, good, good, good.
See, it all happens on the Stacks DeFi show.
This is the place where great ideas
come to life.
But yeah, Dylan,
you wanted to also share a couple new features
and some things where we
were kind of speedrunning this one, but I quite like it that we have so much to talk about.
But yeah, let's dive into it if you still want to talk about it.
Yeah, of course.
Sure.
So sort of the recap, right?
Now with these FlexPools, you can do single-sided liquidity.
You can add stacks, ST stacks, or both, any amount.
You earn fees automatically. You don't need to stake, right?
Just the LP tokens themselves become more valuable over time. But you can stake for those boosted
rewards of 10 to 20%. And that scales nicely up to about 5 million in TVL. You have this auto compounding yield in a sense
because those are paid out in LP tokens.
And then you have this new early unstake feature.
So if for some reason you have staked
and you need to exit that position,
you are free to do so.
I think there's like a 50 basis point fee
or 10 basis point fee or something like that
on the early unstaking.
And let's see, the last two things that I'm excited about, which is even more forward looking,
we get to build on top of this stuff is our automation features. I know I've talked a lot
about, you know, LP tokens, right? But I think mostly people
don't want to know what they are. Maybe if you're listening into this space, you're more,
you might be more of an advanced user and you might be happy to manage your LP tokens yourself.
And we will have the option where you can, you know, play the game of, you know, yield farming
on hard mode. But we do have these smart wallet features
that we've been working on alongside the Bitlow keepers
so that we can basically remove the LP token,
handling LP tokens from the experience.
So what will that mean?
It's like you can show up with your stacks and SD stacks
and just one click you can deposit and you, you know, you start farming right away and you
can opt into these features or opt out of them, but, you know, with automatic restaking,
right, automatic yield harvesting and things like that so that, you know, you don't have
this issue of, oh, how many cycles did I stake for?
Is it 30?
I forgot. I have to come back.
It's just automatically compounding, getting you these rewards.
And so that's the next thing that we're working towards,
is combining our pool page, our earn page,
and making it just one really fluid experience for you to put your tokens to work and make them work smarter
for you so that you don't have as much to manage. And the last thing that I'm super excited about
with these pools, specifically the Biflo Flex pools, is the ability to remove with one coin.
So if you want to withdraw your liquidity and you you want it all to be SD Stacks,
you can do that, which is something brand new that I don't think anyone has done before in the
Stacks ecosystem. And it doesn't work by withdrawing and then swapping. This is like a new
AMM mechanism where you can either withdraw purely to stacks or purely to uh sc
stacks or you can even withdraw um the at the current balance ratio if that's what you prefer
so a lot a lot a lot of flexibility there um but we are also gonna move towards making it
super easy for you to put this to to work into farm yeah. Let me add on to that a PSA that there is a migration process. So if you're currently
providing liquidity in any of the previous STSTX pools, V1 or V1-2, you can now start the migration
process. The team has made it super easy. There's a one-click option, or you can do it manually as well.
The links are on our thread and our social media posts as well.
But you can find, if you have liquidity in those pools,
you're going to see a banner on top of the website, the app,
and just follow those steps, and you can migrate to the new pool.
So that's super important, super easy to do.
And you can start earning on the new pool right away.
Yep, we got that one click migration button for you.
Should be super easy if you're participating
in the version 2 of
the stable swap.
If you want,
you can go the long way. You can do it via the
Explorer or whatever, but
we made it nice and easy for you with one
button.
Awesome. That's great.
That's great. That's great.
Jack, Hermitica 2.0, we didn't even
get to cover it,
but maybe you want to share Hermetica 2.0 in two minutes, if you can.
Yeah, it's, you know, aside from just the design of the site,
which is beautiful, the level of transparency and usability
that this dashboard brings to Hermetica is, in my opinion, sets the standard for all stables.
And that's just going to be more and more important as we go forward, especially as we start seeing more people releasing Bitcoin-backed stables.
You know, people releasing Bitcoin-backed stables, I'm starting to see this narrative really gain strength, you know, across Bitcoin L2s especially here on the timeline.
Everyone seems to be working on a Bitcoin-backed stablecoin.
And Hermetic is just showing them how it's done.
So I'm very excited at the prospect of seeing better stables backed by Bitcoin in general.
But that's really the key here is making safe, effective products that are backed by Bitcoin, making Bitcoin more usable for everyone and with a level of transparency that's unparalleled.
parallel. So the feedback thus far has been tremendous. And again, when we're sitting here,
So the feedback thus far has been tremendous.
every week we do this call and there's just more and more being built and more alpha dropped.
There's just not been a better time to be bullish on this ecosystem since I've been here.
be bullish on this ecosystem since I've been here. It's not even close. So yeah, just very
excited for the future here. You know, even right now on Zest, I don't know about you guys,
but I've been borrowing USDH like crazy because it's just, you know, it's the great prices,
Because it's just, you know, it's the great prices.
You know, you're staking your STSTX.
You're getting like 8% and you're borrowing Hermetica right now for like 1.7, 1.8%.
I mean, it's, you know, this is real DeFi and it's happening right now here on Stacks.
happening right now here on stacks.
And again, like I was telling Dylan earlier, you know, we're talking about Bitflow being
everyone's recognizing this narrative now, but, you know, we're really in a place where
you're separating the visionaries from people who recognize good narratives.
We're just so far ahead of so many in this space and we just
keep going
I just don't know how you could not be bullish
right now
yeah
let's go
let's go, let's go, let's go
you just came on here
real quick maybe
quick announcements about what's
next I believe yeah about what's next, I believe.
Yeah, yeah.
What's up, guys?
We're building the change and making waves, right?
We're so early, it's hard to kind of fathom what the space is going to look like in a year from now, much less five.
So everybody that's building on stacks is ahead of the curve, like Jack likes to say.
And I love it, man. The energy is high. And I'm actually working on the Zest and Stacking Doubt
Discord activity schedules for the month of May. I'm going to be including some streaming,
possibly, potentially, from the conference and in the discords maybe we do some
um you know some live looks into the conferences for the for the community and um you know i i
think it's going to be a really good one uh working on that and you know just getting everybody
activated before it's no no sleep season which is which is right around the corner i can feel it so
um it's really really good to be
building with with good people and uh you know having having some fun while while we do it right
so all the base building going on in the ecosystem that's my signal all the builders with their heads
down uh keep chipping away man uh i'm a fan of everybody that's building in this ecosystem i love that love that and uh you know
shout out to gp's work and um should people find find you in the stacking down discord right after
this or yeah yeah you guys you guys can come through uh i'm going to do a little screen share
um just kind of going over what's going on in the ecosystem, you know, and, you know,
look forward to doing some meme lessons in the month of May as well, doing that again.
But yeah, jump over into the StackingDog Discord.
I'm going to do a little screen share and let's deep dive into these protocols and get
a look at, you know, Hermetica 2.0, go over to Bitflow and check out FlexPools, all of
the whole nine, man.
I can show off how to borrow and lend
with Zest and stack with Stacking Dow.
That's my plan. I just want to
get everybody in the know.
Amazing. Amazing, amazing,
amazing. I guess we're
got one more minute.
Maybe do some quick
outros, but
maybe Dylan, Diego, Roops, Hadan.
You want to go that order?
Yeah, Diego, you got it, man.
Well, I want to thank you guys for the space as usual.
It's awesome to see how much is being built.
As I said, proof of belief belief regardless of market cycles and token
prices we all know what's behind what's under the hood uh but do follow biflo again check out the
biflo flex pools um there's a lot of first um if you are holding on to stacks uh st stacks you now
have more options more flexibility flexibility, smarter yield.
If you're previously providing liquidity, migrate to the new Bitflow Flex pools, enjoy
those staking rewards, and also the trading fees that are automatically added.
If you have any questions, my DMs are open and stay tuned.
There's definitely more to come.
We're working nonstop.
And this is just the first step of many.
So I appreciate the space.
Awesome.
Rube, so down, you guys want to go next?
Yeah, thanks for having me on the
DeFi show. It's been a good one.
Kind of echoing Jack's
sentiment, you know, people are building some really
cool stuff. It feels like every single day
comes out like a new thing that's
bullish or like a new integration or
article, you know, it's crazy times to be
in Stacks and I think we're poised
to make, hopefully, NFA some good
moves.
Obviously, when people come to Stacks,
we want them to come to Leo.
You know, beta play on Stacks.
Stacks being a beta play on Bitcoin.
You know, leverage upon leverage.
And, yeah, you know, study the cat on Stacks.
Awesome to join you guys today.
Yeah, definitely give a follow to the accounts here on today's spaces.
Lots of news, lots of developments coming out in the next couple of weeks.
With the stacks pricing, we see that volatility is a bit back.
It looks like we're testing the potential for a breakout.
potential for a breakout.
And so I think all the pieces are kind of coming together
between Alex Vest and then Dam and all the features.
Yeah, I think regardless of the kind of market turmoil,
we know that the tech is rock solid because it's
built on Bitcoin better than any other system
where L2 can build on Bitcoin.
And that's enough of the conviction to keep us going
and carry us forward into the next bull run for sure.
I'm looking forward to doing that along with you guys.
Bullish, bullish, bullish, bullish.
Jack, you want to top it off?
Yeah, everything here is worth listening to. Just if you're here right now, you're early.
Recognize that. I've been in this space for over three years now, in Stacks specifically.
And I can tell you, when I first saw Stacks, I was like, this is going to be huge.
And then you just grind every day and every day, and you're just sitting here.
You get numb to it.
And then recently, I was revisited by that first initial
feeling when I understood what Stacks actually was. And I could not be more bullish because
right now you've got a dream entry and good traders and people who are experienced in a
space recognize if they know what Stacks is and what it does and how it empowers
people to use Bitcoin to do more. If they can recognize that and they look at the price chart
and they're like, oh my goodness, this entry is a godsend. This is really where we're at.
This is really where we're at. And it's evidenced by all of the building, all of the innovation. And we're just talking up here just to a couple of protocols today. There's so much more being built right now in the background.
Just pay attention, get on these spaces, come check out Deorganized.
We, you know, Deorganized streams in the morning and evening and throughout the day.
We're highlighting new builders and new projects all the time.
And just pay attention because you don't get opportunities like this very often.
Couldn't have said it any better.
But, yeah, make sure to check out all these great protocols.
Make sure to check out Zest Protocol.
Make sure to check out StackingDow, you know, Zest Protocol
to earn some yield on your SBTC,
StackingDow to earn yield on your SDX.
And yeah, now with very instant unstack on Bitflow.
And yeah, if you've got some extra state stacks lying around,
you'll definitely want to look into LPing on Bitflow. And if you've got some extra stake stacks lying around, you'll definitely want to look into LPing on Bitflow
because there is a juicy additional yield on top,
10 plus 10 at least, or maybe 10 plus 20.
So that's very exciting.
But you know, B-RUN research,
Dylan has put up some exciting resources diego
as well and um and yeah make sure to dm us if you have any questions about stacks defy
and then we'll be back next week 10 a.m eastern time tuesday as every week as we've been doing for
63 weeks so let's go excited about this really appreciate you guys all all being here and uh
all the great great people seeing here in the in the audience algorithm trip and monkey
anthony yamizu and uh and many many others so uh let's uh let's keep building and then uh
we'll chat next week bye guys
