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The Stacks DeFi Show #67
Recorded: June 3, 2025 Duration: 0:32:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, key players in the crypto space highlighted significant project launches, fundraising efforts, and emerging trends in Bitcoin DeFi, emphasizing community engagement and innovative yield opportunities.
Full Transcription
Thank you. unfortunately the the space just closed but we can continue right where we left off when everyone is here. So just checking it on.
Are you up?
Jack, Hadan, Jack
are we here?
Yeah, mic test
I think we survived
the rug largely unscathed
Yeah?
That's great
Are you there, Had hold on i think you were
just about to wrap up what you were what you were saying
i don't hear you right now but maybe that's just me just checking
yeah alex isn't showing up for a speaker at the at the moment at least on my end
he's kind of pendling between speaker and listener here so maybe just let me me quickly tell him that. All right, Blaise, are you there, though?
I am here.
Hello again.
Can you hear me now, guys?
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
Okay, okay, great.
You're back. You were just me now, guys? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, okay, great. You're back.
You were just saying something as we cut out.
Yeah, I guess I was wrapping up just on that Pareto principle that 20% of your effort gets
80% of your results.
And so I think in terms of audience, I think the 20% we get the 80% from were a lot of the people at Bitcoin 2025 who are Bitcoin-centric, who love the L1.
And it's just about getting word to spread among that sort of audience virally, getting it to spread organically to word of mouth, making our platform sticky.
to word of mouth, making our platform sticky so that, you know, we sort of integrate Bitcoin
DEXs, bridging Bitcoin Yield, stable coin yield into one frictionless platform so that
they come, they use and they continue using.
And I think that will, you know, is a really good starting point for us to sort of level
up and, you know, and get stacks climbing those kind of ranking tables
to the top 10 where it most so rightfully belongs.
So, yeah, I guess that was overall just wrapping up the thought.
Got it. Got it, got it, got it.
No, that's very good stuff, very viable insights.
Maybe I need to pin some of the tweets that we had up here before.
But Blaze, you also wanted to announce something.
I think you had a cliffhanger for us.
So maybe this would be a great time to throw that in there.
Yeah, happy to.
I would also just comment on Bitcoin Vegas because I saw you guys there.
Met a lot of people for the first time.
It was amazing. The energy is just palpable at this point. It feels like it's really happening.
You have this huge push from enterprises and small businesses to bring Bitcoin on the balance
sheet. This really was kind of, I think the narrative this year was Bitcoin treasury companies
are just everywhere and what a lot of people were talking about And just the feeling that like it's actually actually finally happening
I think Jack had a really good point about the demographics. It is fascinating to see
How many people from older generations are embracing Bitcoin?
Easily like half the people I met and were talking to were boomers, and they really embraced it
from a different perspective than we do. They understand what's happening with the money, but
also this is a generation that actually grew up with privacy, and so they care about that.
And that really lends itself to DeFi and what we're all building. And so they were super
interested in learning about Stacks and DeFi and just how they can actually engage with their money
in a way that is not mediated and overseen by centralized authorities. And so I think it's
really important for us as builders also to design with this user base in mind.
People who are not DeFi natives who would find this type of thing to be complex.
What can we do to really welcome them?
But I think also outside of them, I spoke with a ton of builders there,
just a huge number of people from all over the world
are interested in building on top of Bitcoin
or incorporating it in creative ways into their products.
I talked to people who had built Bitcoin water heaters
and home heaters,
somebody who was incorporating it into real estate deals.
There's a huge amount of interest in that.
So I think we're seeing it from all over the place.
It's just Bitcoin's getting sucked into everything.
So yeah, Bitcoin Vegas was, I think, a phenomenal experience
as I'm sure everybody else who went really loved it, too.
Some quick announcements on our end.
So granted, it's been in closed beta.
We are going to be opening that up, opening the beta when the SBTC cap removal happens.
cap removal happens. So we're targeting a couple of weeks for that. And we've really been focusing
So we're targeting a couple of weeks for that.
on getting our stablecoin liquidity to a point where people can come in and take some serious
loans in size. So recruiting LPs, really out there pounding the pavement, and that's going
really well. We have 5 million borrowable today on the platform at 16% APR for LPs. So if you're not in already, come on in,
provide some stables. And that also means some very good borrow rates, people who are actually
collateralizing their Bitcoin and borrowing against it. So expect that in a couple of weeks
when the cap removal happens. And we are also launching, I think this week, our community
liquidations feature, which lets anybody come in and participate in the liquidation process.
So you don't have to be running a bot or be a market maker to actually do this, like writing custom software.
You can come in off the community liquidations page, click a button and help us maintain solvency of the protocol.
So those are two big announcements right now.
Super excited to get this out of beta and to a point where anybody can come in and use it.
Oh, cool, cool, cool.
No, great, great stuff.
Great stuff, great stuff, great stuff.
And maybe you should talk a little bit as well
about like, you know, the SIP and things like that, right?
that, right? I mean, there's a lot happening, right? And, you know, a lot of space is dedicated
I mean, there's a lot happening, right?
to this. I think Alex Miller has been, you know, out there in the community sort of day and night,
right? He wasn't in Vegas with us, but, you know, with everyone here on these platforms. But,
you know, we should just share some quick thoughts.
I kind of put it out very widely.
Of course, it was on the main announcement channel as well.
But yeah, we'd love to dive a little bit deeper
and also have people on who want to say something
or share some thoughts about it.
So yeah, maybe Jack, you want to say something or share some thoughts about it, you know? So, yeah, maybe, Jack, you want to get started.
I mean, you spoke with a lot of people about it too
and been following the discussion closely.
Yeah, you know, the way I look at it is Stacks is kind of an anomaly
when you look at how other networks have operated in this space.
You traditionally see, you know, a meta and then you see people that kind of jump on that meta and they get their funding up front.
They start building hype.
You know, they really, you know, use that funding appropriately to market well.
And then from there, you know, they begin working on product and attracting a community.
And, you know, Stacks has done things, you know, completely different.
Stacks has tended to be product focused first. And it was through that
process by which you then had the community come on board, people like myself who were like,
okay, Ethereum on Bitcoin. That's how I conceptualized it at first. I was like,
okay, that makes total sense. I get this. I'm going to stick around and, you know, this is going to be my place.
So we find ourselves in a situation today where we have a really great product.
We have the best community in the game.
And we don't have the funding.
and we don't have the funding. And the big reason for that is because of all the networks, again,
this is why Stacks is anomalous, tried to register to SEC, do things by a book that
really didn't exist, but tried their best to be compliant and wound up with a governance system that they thought would
be appropriate with no real rules to follow. And now that we have an administration and a
government that's not so hostile to crypto and things are kind of changing, there's the opportunity here to create a more
efficient governance system and also now really have a chance now that the product's done,
the community's here, really superpower, not just the marketing, but then handle all of the
different aspects of really what it means to do business in crypto.
For instance, the community can ask, well, when are we getting on deck screen or when are we doing this, when are we doing that?
Without really understanding, oh yeah, all of that takes funds.
We don't have ERC-20 tokens that are the predominance of tokens in the space that most things have been built
with those in mind. We like the idea of things on the roadmap like more bridges and more centralized
exchange availability and more exposure. But there's no genie that just comes out of nowhere
and makes this happen. So the SIP, the way I view it is it's really taken a lot of the things that the community
has been asking for for a long time and actually can make that happen.
And the most impressive thing about all of this so far has been the level of acceptance
of community feedback in this process.
Most people don't really know the SIP process.
I know speaking for myself, I was in this ecosystem for about a year before I really
looked at the SIP process and got an idea of what it means and how it works.
it means and how it works. And now, you know, this is a big enough SIP to allow people to
understand, okay, this is what like decentralized governance looks like. And this is what this
means. And to see, you know, the back and forth between the community input and the SIP authors.
the back and forth between the community input and the SIP authors. And I mean, even now,
you know, there's, I'm looking forward to this AMA because, you know, there's been a lot of
discussion about, well, let's do this. How can we approve this? How can we make this more,
you know, transparent or how can we add accountability here or so forth?
And we're seeing decentralized governance in action, which is a,
you know, goes into an even bigger topic because this is really like a trailblazing,
you know, a trailblazing thing where like this is important for more than just stacks.
We're kind of doing something that is going to be integral in the future. And we're kind of like pioneers in that
regard. So it's super bullish on it. You know, I do support it wholeheartedly. I'm here to win.
You know, I'm here to see Stacks take its rightful place in the top five. And we have two of the three on the trifecta. The
trifecta is funding, community, and product, devs. And this is where we get the funding.
And so I think we're in a great position. And I would just encourage everybody to get active.
Use your voice.
You're not speaking into a brick wall.
You know, everyone is participating.
Get on the Stacks forum.
And that way it doesn't get lost in Twitter noise, you know.
And let's do this because we're really at a critical time
and we have to do this right
and this is a good start.
Good stuff.
I'm just checking out the requests
to see TrippinMonkey is requesting
to come up and speak.
Hey, what's up?
Can you hear us?
I can hear now.
Yeah, great, great, great.
Yeah, it came up on the elevator.
I didn't catch the end of Jack's thing, but yeah,
But yeah, I just wanted to jump in on the SIP31 stuff too.
I just wanted to jump in on the SIP 31 stuff too.
And yeah, I think the initial impression coming out of it was fairly split.
But I don't think it was necessarily due to anything SIP31 was suggesting or anything. But if you look back at the Stacks going back years, the original vision of it was
for that open, permissionless, user-owned internet. And then as Stacks has worked towards
finding product market fit, it definitely found the product market fit mostly in that BTC DeFi early on. I think a lot of the feedback is
that that original strategic vision of the open internet kind of narrowed over the years into
the strategic vision of be the top BTC DeFi provider. And this is either the worst space
or the best space to be talking about this stuff in. But as that scope
narrowed and the resources became more scarce, everything got diverted towards that one goal.
And that caused a gap. And I think the initial draft of this SIP just widened that gap
based on how it was really targeting a lot of the DeFi stuff, but not really talking about the other areas of the
community that exist and that can lead to Stacks growth. So I think for me, the big push now
is to clarify the SIP, because I don't think it was the intention to do that. It was just
the way it came across in the initial draft. So the clarifications and the stuff Alex is working on and the original
author group, a lot of which are in here, I think it's really not necessarily to change what CIP 31
really represents in growth, but just to kind of clarify how we grow and to get back to that original Stacks vision
of a permissionless, open, user-owned internet
and maybe less focused on strictly the DeFi part of it.
Is that a question to anyone here?
No, I thought you were just
openly taking communication.
Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Of course, of course, of course.
That makes sense.
And Blaise, Jack,
any thoughts on that, Hadan?
I mean, you've been reading it as well, right?
And you've been following all the discussions.
Oh, yeah, I guess as far as kicking it off, yeah, and reading the discussions of the SIP, you know, I think that those are really good points that Tripp just brought up.
And I think, you know, for me, perhaps it's a bit of a bias because obviously with Alex and protocol, both being
DeFi protocols, for me, DeFi is very much kind of like top of mind.
It's rare that I kind of take the eye off to focus on sort of other things.
I think with the SIP, it's also a culmination of, I think, just sort of trends
that we're seeing now in the market as well. You know, like one of them being is that, you know,
I think Stacks has been doing the sort of right moves in that you kind of have to always adjust
to what the market is kind of telling you or informing you.
So, for example, I think it's been really important with that institutional SBTC growth,
with the different caps and now cap three at 5K.
Because if you look at, you know, the sort of crypto or Bitcoin market itself,
you know, Bitcoin week you know was
uh was touching all-time highs um but if you look at what the bitcoin transaction fees are they
still remain near all-time lows which tells you that you know this is the result of etfs it's the
result of institutional buying that that retail for a large part is still mostly asleep or hasn't been quite reactivated yet.
And so I think I think that approach given now is sort of this kind of like institutional Bitcoin moment.
Stacks is making the right moves of building up those institutional bona fides
institutional bona fides so that we have that as kind of on our proof of credibility.
But when retail returns, we can rightly point out that we're the Bitcoin layer too with
the largest amount of Bitcoin locked in that we flipped even Babylon in that regard.
You know, we flipped even Babylon in that regard.
And I think until the market kind of tells telltale is different, you know, things have been a bit muted as far as, you know, NFT space goes, as far as ordinal space goes, at least relative to what it was kind of last cycle.
what it was kind of last cycle.
And so, you know, I think that kind of focus
on Bitcoin DeFi, given what we know of the administration
as well, this kind of a financial focus,
the sort of, you know, Trump's sons pushing for DeFi,
we're kind of coming at the market at where it's at now.
You know, I think that is valuable feedback
and that we should make allowances
to understand that markets are constantly changing
and flexing and that, you know,
and that hopefully once retail is reactivated
and comes back in,
that we have more to offer necessarily
than just Bitcoin DeFi.
There's also community and Web3 and art and private identity
and all those factors.
But I think at any given moment,
you sort of ride the trends that you kind of see before you.
I think it's currently kind of like a DeFi-centered market. That's where we see
the kind of, you know, the sort of focus, whether it be from investors or KOLs, those are the sort
of drivers that we're seeing. And so I think that's why it isn't necessarily surprising to me
that the SIP addresses that. But, you know, I do appreciate that kind of outside perspective that there is really so much more, you know, to Web3 than just DeFi.
It's really sort of like this cultural moment and revolution.
And I really value this sort of decentralized discussion that the community is having so that we can have those those different voices represented and we can have you know this sort of a foresight to have the right incentives
and structures in place to you know to sort of support the broader community as a as a whole
especially as as as trends inevitably shift in the future as they will. And so, yeah, it would be great to hear and receive suggestions
of how we can do that and what we can include in the current SIPP.
And I do think the community would be very receptive to that
because I think, you know, for really mass adoption,
it takes a mass onboarding and a reawakening of that kind of cultural moment
of art moving on chain rather than it just being decentralized finance.
Even if that is the zeitgeist of the moment, it's inevitable that it will pivot sooner or later.
Yeah, I think what makes it that much more important to do now is this is being set up as an endowment for the next five to 20 years.
And if we set it up for the market conditions of now and what's important now, that just means we need to adjust it or go back to the printer to try and, you know, create some more funding. And, and, and now's the time to
really think this one through, because if you are someone who's very, like you said, you know, your
world is DeFi, go through and as a good thought experiment, go through and read the SIP as if it
was, you know, written towards art or written towards gaming. And all of the research that was in the SIP
was gaming research and everything else.
And think about how you would feel reading that SIP
if DeFi wasn't even mentioned in it,
given how passionate you are about DeFi.
Like if you were completely left out of that SIP.
So I think as you read through the SIP,
kind of just try and keep perspective of other areas of the
group that maybe aren't completely embedded in the DeFi
world. No, no, I totally agree
and understand. And I think it was my understanding
is that one, is that the endowment, it'll
be unlocked over a period of years.
And also that the endowment creates
what would be the Stax Labs.
And so I think what would be key then is ensuring
that the Stax Labs entity that's being created
has this sort of broad community representation
that isn't just purely Stacks DeFi,
but takes into account gaming, NFTs art,
and all these other factors as well.
That I'm completely supportive, that it is flexible,
that it is broad.
And kind of like you said, we don't want to have to,
every time the market pivots, have to have another SIP,
but to have the sort of infrastructure in place
that takes that into account and how things can shift
into the future, for sure.
Sure.
Yeah, very good points.
Very good points.
Seeing if Django in the audience or HeroGamer, if anyone wants to come up, Peter, anyone
else happy to chat more.
But I think, yeah, this is exactly what we need, right?
I mean, we're all here.
We have the primitives.
We have all the pieces in place to make stacks really big
and really, really successful.
And now it's time to just add rocket fuel to it.
And this is the way, right?
So there's obviously a lot of thought that's
went into this and a lot of thought that's went into this and, you know,
a lot of great thoughts on the forum and a lot of good ideas. But I think, yeah, the core premise
stands, right? I mean, we're in a leading position and sort of leading Bitcoin L2. And, yeah, it's
time to really double down on that. And this is the way to do it, right?
I think if everyone wants to go back in time, right,
then the way to do it would be to, you know,
have a much larger foundation or a bigger treasury
or all of those things.
But, you know, we're here.
It's possible to course correct and, yeah,
to solve really for that, yeah, sort of fundamental things
that we've been running at for so long.
So yeah, really good points.
And this will be discussed in much more depth
in an hour from now,
so at noon Eastern time,
to really go into all the mechanics
to really go into all the mechanics
and then sort of everything behind it.
But yeah, I think we're kind of wrapping up
or coming to the end of the DeFi show.
Maybe some quick thoughts,
quick things that you want to share with people
to do or hooks to what to do next.
I know you're on a lot of spaces, Jack,
so maybe you want to go first and then pass it to Adan and then we can
finish up.
Yeah, sounds great.
Again, just be involved in this
process right now. This is
amazing
to be a part of this.
We'll look back on this and realize
how historic it is. Also,
just pay
attention. DeFi is definitely the meta right now,
DeFi on Bitcoin especially. And the thing is, the beautiful part when you have this whole community
is that when you have a dedicated community full of indie devs and full of creative people,
when those next metas come around, the more empowered your
community is, the more quickly that your chain can grab a hold of that meta and pave the way
for more capital to come in and go from there. So could not be more bullish. And if you're not
following Hermetica, go ahead and change that. Follow now. They got some pretty cool stuff
to tell you all about real soon.
Awesome.
From our side, I would say, yeah, as of now,
there's 47 hours left to participate in Alex Surge round four.
It's been going really well.
We have, you know, Leo this round,
absolutely dominating the leaderboard so far.
Typically in past rounds,
we've gotten about 110 million votes
in surge rounds two and three.
Right now we're about at 90.
So there's 20, you know, 20 million to go.
But I think, you know, we're starting to we're starting to see the leaderboard look more and more like what it will at the end.
And so just a reminder, one, to make sure that you receive voting rewards.
If you're an Alex or Lee Alex holder or staker, you have voting power.
It's the easiest rewards in stacks.
You literally just earn by voting.
And on our vote page, you can rank to see which pools you would get paid the most for voting for.
Be sure to participate as an LP.
I mean, with Leo, triple digit APRs, that's pretty appetizing.
We have some really great SBTC yields as well in the 20s, 30%.
And so take advantage of that.
And of course, whatever the stack's rewards for that SBTC is,
you earn that in addition to the surge yields.
So yeah, as the time runs out on that, make sure you check that out.
And if you haven't, last week we published our DAM audits.
And so the Alex concentrated liquidity automated market maker that we have launching next.
We have two separate audits by, I believe's coin fabric and clarity Alliance that we have have
posted and that means that the next step in our roadmap will be a public mess testnet coming sooner
or later and so be sure to follow our account for the latest news on that so you can be among the
first to kind of check it out but yeah the greatest sense of urgency you know don't miss out on surge
uh it's it's it's really a community rewards campaign you are all the community so uh yeah
go ahead and earn those rewards please we love to see the participation uh thanks guys always great
to join you absolutely and um yeah make sure to tune in um and at noon to learn learn learn more and dive
dive deeper but uh you know until then you know make sure to earn yield on your on your sbtc on
on zest protocol you know 4.4 so definitely a good one and um yeah you know there's a lot of
a lot of stx borrowing going on a a lot of USDH borrowing going on.
And yeah, we've got some good news coming soon with optimized yield strategies and more,
which will obviously be powered by the SIP and all the great stuff that we've been working on. So until then, get some good yields, get some good sleep.
get some good yields, get some good
sleep, and
we'll speak
again, 10am
Eastern Time, Tuesday, next week
for another DeFi show.
Appreciate you all being here,
all the community heroes like JagoHero,
Peter,
Trippamonkey, who is here on stage,
High Roller, Mr. Wolf,
a lot of people I'm probably missing,
Chad, STX, and many more.
So appreciate you all being here,
and then we'll speak again in an hour or next week.
All right. Bye, guys.
Bye, everyone.
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stacks.btc
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