hey what's up everybody just getting set up here checking if uh how don is there behind the alexandral
yep i'm here happy to talk to you and you can you can hear me loud and clear loud and clear
can you hear me yeah yeah yeah perfect all right sometimes i have to hassle a bit with
devices and things like that and headphones but that's all that's fantastic that's fantastic
yeah i'm here just as an fyi i did not hear you guys until i was a speaker again but
yeah not sure yeah no worries we were we were just doing some routine audio checks you know i think
yeah i think there's a few more people coming up i'm not sure philip if you wanna you know man the
decks again and put on a put on a calm tune for us yep a calm one a calm one a calm one
is that calm enough oh that sounds great it sounds great i'm gonna mute myself for it
All right, it's getting down the air.
And I can't wait a year tonight.
Look around and look at me.
What's the sign of a great Jamaican?
What's the sign of a great Jamaican?
What's the sign of a great Jamaican?
Even it's free on the show.
Yeah, sounds like we should get started then.
I think there are still some people joining us as the,
I think Dylan is still coming on, right?
And someone from, from all bridge,
but I think we can already get started.
Just you can hear me, right?
Perfect, perfect, perfect.
I don't see the voice thing moving on my UI,
Well, welcome, everybody.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
You've tuned into the best Twitter spaces,
at least today, but definitely we think of the week.
Where, yeah, on the Stack DeFi show
where we keep it very simple and talk about Stack DeFi.
Maybe just before we get started, as always,
friends at Stacks always ask us to do this quick,
mention that this space is for information purposes only,
and should not be considered legal financial tax advice,
or anything else you should speak about
with way more professional people than our here.
But yeah, like a lot has happened this week.
I guess, more broadly, bit of a nice rally
after the GBTC selling kind of seems to be done, right?
We got the, you know, STX is up a bit
since we last met last week,
and lots of building going on, right?
It seems like there's a lot of small announcements,
small things being leaked and dropped here and there
But yeah, maybe before jumping into everything,
you know, we should introduce ourselves for new listeners,
maybe very brief, you know, who we are
Hadan, do you wanna go first?
Sure, happy to join the space with you all again.
I'm Hadan the DD lead with the Alex Lab Foundation.
And Alex is building the finance layer of Bitcoin,
where we take L1 assets and we combine them
with L2 programmability and scalability
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome.
And I guess a guest who's been here before,
but Dylan, do you wanna go next?
Yeah, hey, I'm Dylan, the CEO of Bitflow Labs.
We are building a decentralized exchange for Bitcoiners
to make it easy to, you know, trade and earn
with all the different tokens that are defined
in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Nice, nice, lots to talk about.
And Philip, you know, not sure who doesn't know you yet,
but, you know, engages anyone out there.
Yeah, I'm Philip, core contributor at both RKT Go Finance
and StackingDAO, StackingDAO is the first liquid
stacking protocol on, yeah, stacks.
Awesome, you know, progress once again,
I'm sure we'll talk about that more in a bit.
And then RKDco is a over collateralized stablecoin.
So we make it easy for you to borrow against your own assets
in the form of stablecoin.
Obviously, also happy to be here.
Yeah, and yeah, and from my side,
I'm Tyco, co-founder of Zest Protocol,
which is a lending protocol built for Bitcoin coming soon.
And, you know, before this, I was the product lead
for SPTC as part of the Stacks Nakamoto release
that we're all longing towards
in the next couple of months towards the halving
that's going to make this space very exciting.
And next to that, I'm also a core contributor
at StackingDAO, you know,
to get some very exciting collateral
into the Stacks DeFi space before Nakamoto was there
and before SPTC was there.
So I guess, yeah, lots of things to talk about,
but I see Albridge also managed to hop on as a speaker.
Maybe you wanna quickly introduce yourself
and who you are and what you do.
I'm looking forward to chat.
Hey, pleasure to be here.
My name is Paul and I handle business development
at Albridge, excited to be here
and continue this conversation.
Thank you all for coming.
Oh, really, really cool stuff.
I guess very quick, maybe super quick rundown
of, you know, everything that happened,
but well, for one, Albridge launched on Stacks, right?
Bringing WBTC and AAUSDC from a bunch of different chains.
Then, you know, StackingDAO with the Genesis NFT drop
that kind of went a bit wild
and some exciting inflows and maybe some things to share
about what's coming in the next couple of months.
And so Archivico teasing STStacks collateral
with a screenshot, so we should maybe talk about that.
And then, of course, Alex on the OrangeDAO IDO,
or Orange, maybe it's not OrangeDAO, it's just Orange.
But, and the buyback protection that you launched.
Maybe there's some cool things to share about there.
And then, you know, Dylan with fundraising announcements,
And, you know, all of that,
I think there's probably some things that we're missing,
but these are kind of maybe in my head,
some of the major things to cover.
But yeah, Adan, do you wanna maybe go first on the IDO
and what's been happening on Alex this week?
Sure, so for the past week,
we've launched the Orange crypto IDO.
The lottery round closed the 32X server subscribed,
so we were glad to see that level of engagement
and enthusiasm in the community.
And again, just to mention always
that the projects that launch on the Alex launchpad,
they're approved by the community.
The Alex launchpad doesn't directly endorse
or promote the projects that are launched.
And so, you know, users do have to do their own research.
But yeah, you can see, I guess I'll pin
one of the most recent tweets at the moment.
But, you know, Orange crypto,
they'll be starting with a Bitcoin wallet,
with stacks made of Bitcoin and expanding from there.
You know, we have our project information team
where from the application form,
you can see some of the, all the team founders are docs
and what they are the roadmap
and what they are some of their VCs who've participated are.
And this is also the first IDO that we're launching
where we've based on community feedback,
we've instituted a one-week buyback protection.
And so one week from when the IDA registration ends
and the token generation event occurs,
if one week later, the price of the token
is less than the IDO price,
and that price is determined either through the coin gecko
or if coin gecko isn't available,
then, you know, Alex will use, you know,
our own methods to determine the sort of market price
Users have the option to sell back the IDO tokens
And so we believe that by instituting that,
because of course, you know, crypto startups
and IDOs are particularly volatile,
it can be unpredictable, just crypto as a whole is.
And so this way we want to encourage broader engagement
and participation with the Alex Launchpad
marginally some additional peace of mind
that if immediately once the token launches,
if it were to say sync dramatically
and remain that way for one week period,
they do have the option of selling it back
and regaining 90% of what they paid for it.
And so we're going to continue to have that
Then we continue to have a busy pipeline
in the months and weeks ahead.
And so, you know, that continues to position,
Alex would like to think of it
between, you know, X-Link Bridge
and really our goal of merging L1 and L2
as being of a bit of a gateway to Bitcoin
for new joiners and community members.
And particularly as we see,
I think market spirits start to enlighten again,
launchpads are very cyclical.
And so while sentiment is bullish,
it's great to, you know, offer emerging projects
the chance to connect with our community
and also access funds that they might need
to continue developing and growing the Bitcoin ecosystem.
So we're excited to have that.
And yeah, that's been our primary development
Super cool, super cool, Alex.
And I remember meeting the guy from Orange as well
a couple of weeks ago and mentioned about all their plans
So that's definitely nice to have them
more close in the ecosystem sometime
when they launch some stuff.
But yeah, I guess on maybe the big announcement
in the stack ecosystem last week
was probably definitely the one that you made, Dylan.
Do you wanna share a bit about
what the past week has been like for you?
Yeah, so for sure, we just shared
that we closed our pre-seed funding round
And yeah, it's been a rollercoaster, you know,
building through the bear market
and then just finally able to raise this round
as more and more people are developing their Bitcoin thesis.
And yeah, I feel just very lucky to be able
to wake up every day and work on this.
So yeah, now we can get back to building a little bit
and we're happy to share that we just opened up last week
from our closed private beta to the public.
So now anybody can go to Bitflow
and put your stacks, your ST stacks,
your ABTC from Alex or your XBTC to work
and your stablecoins as well.
And yeah, happy to see Albridge here as well.
We're also experimenting with creating some new pools
So it's gonna provide even more
earning opportunities for people.
And yeah, there's so much more that we're building out too
so that we can integrate across different DeFi projects.
So that like Bitflow and Alex can work together
in a way where, or Bitflow in Beller, right?
Or Arcadico where we're routing trades
through existing liquidity pools
so that the users get like the best possible rates.
So yeah, so much to be working on, very excited.
Oh, that's super, the super quote.
And that's a bit of alpha,
I'm not sure if that's been shared before.
I don't think so, but yeah, no, that's great.
Hearing it first, hearing it first
and stack me partial as it should be.
And I think also on the opening the pool,
I mean, of course we worked a bit there as well
on getting stacking down SD stacks on there.
But yeah, that's been pretty explosive.
I mean, I think we thought the migration
So this is still ongoing.
So if you participated in the beta Bitflow,
you can still move over your SD stacks
as the exposition to the new pools.
But yeah, I think it's about like,
3.5 million SDX liquidity, right?
So $5 million in like what, four days or something?
The new pool has grown pretty significantly.
I think we're not the RKD co-philip.
We're not quite there yet, but.
Yeah, firstly, integrating on default LAMA
then we can obviously keep score, right?
That's the way, but yeah, no, definitely.
Also, let me know, like we did a bit of thing
with default LAMA to get SD stacks on there back in the day.
If you need any help, like yeah, just ping us, of course.
But yeah, no, super, super cool.
And I guess speaking of like, well, stablecoins,
assets, new assets, like, yeah, like,
I guess over to Allbridge, right?
You wanna share anything about,
I feel this has been a long time in the making
to finally have you here.
And I think everyone is quite excited
about having more ways to get stables
or other forms of BTC onto stacks.
But yeah, do you wanna share maybe a bit
about Allbridge for everyone
and what you guys have been doing,
how long you've been in the game,
like why stacks, all of these things?
Yes, it would be my pleasure.
So the journey with stacks was quite incredible.
It started back in 2022, I think.
And since then we've been working on the bridge
and then we kind of postponed it a bit
waiting for the 2.1 update.
So we've completed the bridge last year
and we actually launched it to mainnet on August 1st.
I think there was an official announcement
supported by the guys at stacks.
But we've worked on bringing the liquidity
to the pairs that we want to bring to stacks
because as our bridge follows the Edmonton burn principle,
we want to have users on the destination
where they arrive to stacks
to have some sort of tangible assets
that they can swap their rep asset to
and then interact with lots of different stacks
that's participating in the launch pools, et cetera.
So yeah, we've managed to do it
with the help of guys from Alex and the from PloTech
so that the assets would be bridgeable.
And I've had also the pleasure of speaking
with folks from BitClo and in hopes of bringing
even more assets to this technical system.
Showcasing a bit about wall bridge,
we've been in the game since 2021
and we've always prioritized ourself
in connecting sort of unique non-EVM destinations.
So we have a bit of a portfolio of different chains
that we can bridge from to Stacks ecosystem.
And we're quite curious, Stacks was our milestone network,
So it was quite a big journey.
So yeah, I'm excited to be here
and bring even more interactions to the Stacks ecosystem.
No, and which, do you know off the top of your head
which chain you can now bridge to with,
I mean, obviously like Solana is a big one, right?
I think we didn't have that one before,
but which ones are all supported, do you know that?
So Solana is obviously one of them.
Then we have Stellar, XRPL,
lots of different EVM, Cellolange, BNB, Polygon,
Ethereum, Cello, Aurora near protocol.
This is where I need to check the docs first,
but a lot of different non-EVM destination basically.
It's a casual space, feel free to just check it,
jump in when you have the full thing.
I mean, that's some pretty cool stuff.
Yeah, I mean, I tried some from Solana
and then we'll probably try a few other routes there.
And maybe like this is also maybe just for me
but like you mentioned the mint and burn principle.
So is that when someone like,
let's say I sent the AEUSDC from Solana to Stacks,
like it burns it on Solana and then mints it on Stacks
rather than sort of keeping it in a big pile
or is that not how I think about it?
It depends on the chain where it has been wrapped too.
So what happens when we bridge,
let's say from Solana, USDC,
we'll bridge it over to Stacks
where the bridge smart contracts will lock USDC
on the source chain on Solana.
And then we'll mint ASUSDC as we call it
for with the prefix on the Stacks side.
And when the user wants to bridge back from Stacks to Solana,
but then the assets will be burned on the Stacks side
Hope that was clear enough.
So it's like different from, I guess like the,
if you think of like wormhole
and the wormhole hack and stuff like that, right?
So it's a different model from that.
It kind of is similar to the wormhole model
and the portal bridge essentially
because it wraps and burn the assets.
We also have a different bridging solution,
but since it doesn't support Stacks,
I will not delve too much into the detail,
but there we have liquidity pools for that lock
So there is no mint and burn in there.
But in the case of the bridge
that we've interacted Stacks with, it's mint and burn.
Yeah, okay, I think that's cool.
So just as a user, like if I send some,
like you see from Ethereum,
that basically gets locked into an all bridge contract
and then it gets minted on Stacks
and then it goes back, it gets unlocked on Ethereum
Cool, I'm not sure if anyone has any questions or any.
And we've also, yeah, we've also outdated our code
with the guys that go in fabric.
So there is a report to QRisk for checking it out.
And yeah, we all know everyone at CoinFabric very well.
I think they've probably audited
actually everyone's contracts and it's on stage here.
So shout out to CoinFabric.
I think you've probably done audits with Alex or something,
No, that's great, that's great, that's great.
I know, that's pretty cool.
I think business will be booming for CoinFabric this year
with everything launching on Stacks.
Yeah, I'm not sure if you guys want to share anything
like Hadan or Dylan or Philip on all bridge
or how it's relevant or how you're thinking of maybe
using it or integrating it or anything there.
Yeah, I'm happy to talk a bit to that.
I don't think we had the good fortune yet to connect
personally with all bridge,
but we definitely will leverage USEC.
So we're going to be building deep liquidity
against USEC for our stablecoin, USEA
in collaboration with Bitflow soon.
I think that's been public news,
but just like sharing it there again,
we're aiming for like late February, early March
to get our own upgrade life, the Archideco upgrade
and then yeah, Dylan, I mean,
we'll work a lot together over the coming months
to just make sure that people can easily swap in and out
of USEA and to USEC and the other way around.
So that's super important for us.
I mean, if there's no stablecoin liquidity
and not multiple stablecoins, you know, whatever it is,
whether it's USEC, USET or something else,
just provide real deep liquidity.
So I'm super bullish on all bridge coming to stacks
and specifically knowing that you can bridge
from like Solana to stacks, that's amazing
simply because I'm way too bored to use Ethereum.
And yeah, I mean, I love it.
What's not to love about this?
It unlocks a whole lot of like different tokens
been talking a lot about stablecoins,
and I'm also thinking wrapped Bitcoin is really interesting
just because it's the biggest centralized, you know
synthetic Bitcoin asset out there.
And yeah, also looking forward to that until we have SBTC.
Thank you for the kind words.
I would be happy to connect with you soon
after the AMA to continue this conversation
and build together in stacks.
We should also connect actually,
but I think we're put in a group.
We can just have a little chat there yet,
but we'll get some cool stuff going.
I didn't want to expose you like this.
The guy who didn't respond yet to the message
are coming very, very quickly,
very soon, very soon, right after this actually.
Like I mean, you guys have been talking, right?
Like any, anything you can share on that
or I don't know what you've been talking about
or what your thoughts are.
Yeah, at high level, I think more trading pairs
is great for DeFi users on stacks.
And yeah, bringing USDC is huge, bringing WBTC is huge.
And I'm curious like what pairs you guys would be excited
about getting launched first.
I mean, definitely building up some stable swap,
liquidity for wrapped Bitcoin and different stablecoins.
But once we introduce these routes,
I mean, you can start trading WBTC
for something like LEO, some meme coins, right?
So partially it's like half the swaps happening on Bitflow,
half the swaps happening on Alex, for example.
I think people have fun with the meme coins.
So yeah, which pairs are you guys most excited about?
I mean, I think just, yeah, USDC in general
is pretty interesting because we didn't have it yet.
Or I guess we had XUSD, right?
Which is sort of like wrapped USDC,
but it's sort of been deprecated a little bit.
But yeah, I think I'm pretty excited about like
the ASUSDC to SUSDC, right?
I think that could be pretty interesting
because like if you do like a sort of multi-hop route there,
right, you could kind of then essentially connect
SD stacks with ASUSDC, right?
Because then you could swap ASUSDC to SUSDT,
then SDX to SD stacks on Bitflow.
And then if you kind of wrap that all into one kind of
package with one press of a button,
that could be a very powerful thing for, you know,
protocols that say hypothetically look to use
SDX as collateral, right?
So, you know, that's like,
that's definitely an interesting one for SUS protocol,
you know, when the stacks markets come there.
Yeah, so there's a lot of things to think about,
but like it's good to have just more
of that composability, right?
I mean, just a top question for everyone is like,
you know, how do we bridge, how do we bridge?
No, of course, there's X-Link, which is great, right?
Maybe Haddan, you wanna share a few words about that as well.
I'm not sure if you have anything to share about X-Link,
if you're the right person to talk about it,
but yeah, just like more routes, right?
From more chains, it feels like it's kind of
the top question piece that people ask
when they come to stacks.
Like, how do I bridge over my stuff?
And then usually it's like, okay, well,
you have a couple of ways to do with X-Link,
but you know, there's one, there's not more than one,
or, you know, it's maybe not as common as like,
if you wanna go from, let's say polygon to Solana,
then you have like a trillion things you could do, right?
But any, I don't know, any recent thoughts on bridging?
Yeah, I would think obviously the easier
it is to onboard and off-board liquidity on the stacks,
on the Bitcoin, on to other blockchains,
the better it is for the ecosystem as a whole.
And so, you know, we're excited to see
the developments in the ecosystem from when, you know,
previously in order to get your liquidity onto stacks,
you have to go through, say, a centralized exchange
to then that was really the sort of driving factor
and Alex creating the Alex bridge,
which then became X-Link and now having, you know,
like all bridge and linking to Solana
and greater multi-chain liquidity.
You know, we think that this is incredibly bullish
for the ecosystem as a whole.
And the more options and more choices that users have,
we think it's definitely when you think about
the DeFi potential on Bitcoin,
it's a big enough pie that there's so much more
to be gained through collaboration
and simply making it easier for users to join
and gaining mass adoption and gaining, really,
you know, having a snowball of momentum
going into the Bitcoin halving and into 2025.
And I think that's what we're all here to see.
I think we all, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
And so, you know, I think we're all here
to really support each other and continue forward
towards the Bitcoin economy.
So, you know, very excited to see all this come together.
And there's more coming, right?
Yeah, that seems pretty clear from some of the conversation
I've been having over the last weeks, right?
Like it's not gonna stay with two bridges,
you know, for let's get a couple of months,
but yeah, one week at a time, right?
As we do on this, on this basis.
But yeah, I don't know, like maybe we should talk a bit.
I mean, there's been a lot of stacking down news, right?
But I think, you know, you also dial in,
not sure if that's, if you put the stacking down handle on
or if it's a mystery guess there,
but yeah, the Genesis NFT, right?
That was kind of a big one
and some pretty crazy inflows and things like that.
Not sure if, we should probably touch on that.
Yeah, the handle has not been hacked.
That's me indeed who connected in.
So it's both myself, one on the computer and I'm on mobile.
But yeah, stacking down, so we launched our NFT,
I think about 12,000 NFTs have been claimed,
I mean, there were about 15,000 people on the list
that were eligible, you know, to claim.
So what is it, 12,000 over 15,000?
My math is bad, but maybe 70, 80% that I've claimed,
which in my opinion is a pretty high number
and speaks to, you know, the active address,
I mean, we didn't do anything against civil attacks,
to be honest there, but even if there's, you know,
some duplicates, you only get one multiplier
and one times the points, it doesn't really matter.
But yeah, a lot of NFTs have been minted, let's say.
And then, yeah, crazy inflows, anyone can see it.
If you go to ab.stackingdown.com,
we're over 14 million now.
And I have a pretty simple explanation for that.
For me, liquid staking or stacking as we call them,
stacks is simply the lowest staking fruit.
And for me, a proxy to the on-chain activity
that, you know, people want to do or are having in general.
And so it's the easiest action literally anyone can take,
okay, you have Alex and their stacks and things like that.
That's pretty like basic too.
But I would argue that, yeah,
liquid stacking token is simply very much signal
and very little noise and you put in stacks,
you get out stacks, stacks.
And again, it's stacks efficient, it's very easy.
And for me, it's a very important proxy.
And as we see that grow, the TVL of stacks as a whole
can grow and we can build a very vibrant economy around it
with this, with Arcadico, with Bitflow,
with others who want to integrate our liquid stacking token.
But yeah, it's awesome to see,
awesome to have all those stacks people active.
This really makes me bullish, you know,
if we would launch a protocol and like we didn't have
any inflows, I'd be a bit sad now, but this is great.
And I think 2024 will be an awesome year, generally.
Yeah, yeah, and that's 14 million SDX, right?
Which is like probably a $22 million or something.
I mean, it depends a bit like what the market is doing.
Yeah, so that's some nice stuff.
And yeah, Bankless also picked it up.
They were tweeting about it or they added it to their quests.
So yeah, and then they also put there, right?
Like on the Bankless quests, they were saying
that this is kind of like, you know, it was like easy,
Like they kind of make these things like,
okay, interact with this deeper protocol,
you might get something, like, is it hard?
Is it medium to do, right?
And it was like difficulty, easy, easy, easy, right?
So yeah, it makes a lot of sense
that kind of people come and try,
Yeah, I guess there's also been some work
on this kind of, you know, validator setup, right?
Like on the second down side,
I mean, it's kind of fresh, some fresh things,
but maybe if anything you want to already share about that
I don't want to spoil everything yet,
but just want to say that we'll have pretty awesome news
in my opinion that includes the whole ecosystem,
all the pools with delegation logic,
where you'll be able to hook in your pool
and still be able to benefit from, you know,
stacking down as a protocol.
That's an upgrade that's coming very soon,
but yeah, more on that in the next few weeks and months.
But it's like our goal with stacking down
is just to be a community project, be all inclusive,
include everyone, every single pool,
every single participant that wants to be there
while also pushing decentralization.
And that needs to be, you know, in our DNA.
And that's why we're pushing all of this,
So more something, Dylan, you want to say something?
You can also just unmute and talk while we talk
and then, you know, claim space, but go for it.
Yeah, I was wondering if you guys knew
off the top of your heads,
how many stacks are locked up in PoX right now?
And, you know, how many are, I guess you said 14 million?
Yeah, you can look it up.
Yeah, you can look it up.
You can look it up pretty quick.
I think also one thing to note
is X-verse is obviously a large pool
and I think they missed the window this time
So it's a bit lower the cycle than it usually is.
Currently there's 350 million STX locked.
I'm not sure how much is X-verse,
it's 50 million or so, right?
Yeah, I would say historically,
I'm not sure how big X-verse is,
but historically it's always between 350 and 500 something.
I think at peak bull run in 2021, 22,
it was really in the 500s.
And we're still in, well,
I think we're seeing healthy numbers, let's say.
I think out of a total supply,
that's 1.8 billion stacks.
I think that's the FDV, fully diluted supplier valuation.
If we get to like, say over 50% stacked,
which should really be our goal as an ecosystem
because then we can pull more liquidity on chain.
These are healthy numbers, I think.
And we're getting there, I'm not complaining,
but we still have a road to go.
And it's also kind of a bit like stacking STX, right?
Or staking STX, you should think of it.
It's kind of like, if you look at other ecosystems,
it's very high friction, right?
Like if you stake on Solana,
it's like you can stake it, you can instantly un-stake it.
I mean, you know, solana's obviously instant,
But on Ethereum, it's also pretty quick, right?
If you take it out of Lido,
like it's also, you know,
it's not gonna be very long,
but on STX, you have these two week cycles, right?
So you're locked up for literally
kind of two weeks at a time.
if you kind of like configure stacking for longer,
you just say, okay, do 10 cycles,
which then means you're locked in for like,
you know, 10 times two weeks,
which is, you know, like almost half a year, right?
So they're like, you know,
I don't know, people we've been talking to,
and then, you know, they say,
oh yeah, my stacks is locked up until like mid March, right?
So there's like a lot of STX
that is just currently not like stacked in consensus, right?
Or is stacked because there are these lockup windows, right?
And it's so long and so strenuous and so on.
So yeah, like they're, you know,
liquid stacking can do a lot of good for the ecosystem,
It's like a very easy way to just bump the TVL, right?
it's good for all of us on this show,
if TVL stacks is high, right?
And yeah, this is like very easy, right?
If people are stacking, they could just, you know,
mint some ST stacks and then hey, boom,
And then investors get more excited because, you know,
they look at these numbers a bot and then it's like,
Let's invest, let's write another check into Bitflow,
you know, let's invest in Arcadico or Hermetica
or, you know, buy some new coins maybe, you know,
I see some new coins in the audience, you know?
So it's like, yeah, it's the way we can just grow the pie
like for all of us and make it exciting.
But yeah, so stacks is really the most difficult one
to sort of stake in, I guess,
or one of the more difficult ones.
And then, yeah, and then additionally as well,
like, you know, STX yields Bitcoin, right?
Or STX yields BTC, which, you know, is cool.
It's a pretty cool feature.
Like I don't think anything else yields BTC.
But also for some holders of STX, right?
They kind of just want to be long STX.
And, you know, if they're a small holder,
like, you know, the BTC yield will be kind of negligible.
So it's sort of like, well, why would I have it?
So for those holders, like liquid stacking
actually probably becomes the most efficient thing to do,
right, because it's like, otherwise you get this BTC,
you need to swap it to STX
and then you need to re-stack it every cycle
and make sure you don't miss your two week window.
But, you know, here it's just like all automated stuff.
So yeah, a lot of good things, a lot of good things.
But yeah, in case anyone wants to jump on as well
or any questions, maybe we should look
at what people are asking us.
And then there's also a thing here,
but if people want to just grab the mic,
then they obviously shouldn't do that,
depending on the same thing.
Yeah, let's take some questions.
And in the meantime, I just want to say,
if you look at other ecosystems,
we had that in Ethereum three years or four years
almost ago now and you see the same thing happen in Solana.
The market gap of the layer one, the gas token,
and then you see all those protocols launching.
They all do either points or TGEs, you know, airdrops.
Tomorrow, by the way, Jupiter, the biggest, you know,
aggregator tech on Solana is doing their airdrops,
super excited about that one personally,
which is an amazing protocol.
And I think looking at that playbook,
they're executing the exact same playbook as Ethereum.
And like, why am I saying this?
I think if we work all together,
we can execute that playbook another time, but on stacks.
And so it's in all of our best interests
to think of, you know, productivity on chain.
So if you buy and sell, just try to do it on chain.
We, yeah, I'm not saying excludes centralized exchanges,
but we're building an on-chain economy.
So we need to strive to, you know,
being as much on-chain as possible
and make sure that we create a lot of effects.
Actually, one thing quickly before we go,
someone is asking you the thing, when STX 20,
like anyone here, you could share anything about that.
I think you were working on that, Adan, right?
Or not sure if there's any updates on this.
We are, we're working on integrating
the two STX 20 indexers with the Alex, Bitcoin, Oracle,
but that is a, it's a work in progress
and we will have updates and announcements on that soon.
Cool. And also someone in the chat was like, when upgrade,
I think there's also a quick hook
that I think hero gamer will be very happy with
and everyone in the STX ecosystem.
I think next week, right?
We're voting on Nakamoto or the week after.
Actually, we're voting very soon.
You know, we can talk about Nakamoto upgrade,
but obviously we need to vote for it.
Yeah. So keep your eyes out for that one.
Do you want to say anything about it, Adan?
Oh, I was going to say, if hero is willing
I'd just love to have him discuss,
talk a bit about the Nakamoto SIP upgrade
vote coming next week because I think that's definitely.
And then we should go to Artis Gemini is also here,
So I don't know, take it away.
So what was the question?
When upgrade, did you guys say?
When upgrade, well, when are we voting?
What do we need to watch out for, you know?
Yeah. So the actual sort of on the user side,
when it actually goes live
and you can experience the five seconds,
that's like sometimes in April,
I don't know exactly when,
but it's all subject to, you know,
the votes get through, everybody votes.
And then they will be doing testing and implementing stuff.
So yeah, the live date is actually April.
And then voting is next week?
Voting is the next cycle.
And it will go over two reward cycle periods.
So it should be cycle 78 and 79.
That's the voting period.
And you'll be able to just,
if you're stacking the pool or solo stacking,
or you just got some STX lying around in your wallet,
everybody's eligible to vote.
We touched on in DM about the stacking stack.
It's a little bit more complicated, but yeah.
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
And that's for everyone in the audience, right?
So 10th of February, kind of roughly voting will start.
Yeah, about 11th of February or 12,
So yeah, give Nakamoto some love on Valentine's Day.
Yeah, and just for context,
the reason why we're voting is because all this upgrades,
it comes from the developers, generally speaking.
Anybody can propose any upgrade ideas,
but at the end of the day,
in order to keep the ecosystem more decentralized,
we do want any consensus breaking stuff
to be voted in by the people,
which is all of you who have STX.
And that's why we're doing this.
And if all of you say no,
that means something in the idea is not right yet,
therefore we won't proceed.
But obviously like this one is probably less controversial
that everybody will probably want the five second blocks.
So, but yeah, like, but we still want some indication
and how do we get that indication from the people
is by allowing everybody to indicate with the STX holding.
Yeah, power to the people.
Did you centralize anything that is here?
No, great, that's amazing.
And yeah, so keep, you need to keep our eyes out for that.
Yeah, and that's been the big thing
you've been working on right here,
like organizing all of this stuff.
Yeah, maybe curious, like what actually goes into that?
Like, what does your sort of life look like
Yeah, so like running up to the vote,
we try to hold like the one Twitter space
that you held with us about STX as gas or emission,
all this stuff kind of fall under the bracket
or sip discussions because all these are essentially ideas
that are consensus breaking.
And therefore, anybody with an idea can propose an idea,
but it needs to be actually discussed properly.
Otherwise, there's no oversight to any of these stuff.
So community discussion is one of the key things
that me and across try to sort of instill in our community
like just because we need propose something
doesn't mean that idea has to go through.
It has to go through proper channels of discussion
either on STX forum or post on GitHub or out in the public
where this year we've tried to bring it out from the Zoom
out in the open to Twitter spaces.
So to get better engagement, better awareness.
So kind of awareness and education
is a big part of the SIP process.
And then once the idea is more finalized
that goes through the actual sort of the SIP process itself
gets reviewed by the SIP editors,
which is like the first line of reviewers
and then go through the technical caps,
economics caps and governance cap.
So all these three groups of people
review it basically even deeper and properly
And once that vote passes and steering committee passes
and then we, the public get to vote.
So I sort of facilitate the conversation
and sort of help with the around with the dates
when it should happen and also some content and materials
and links to help people be aware
of what people actually voting on
because I think it's very easy
for the community to click yes.
But what you are clicking yes into,
I think it's important for everybody to be aware
rather than just blindly following other people's steps.
You need to think critically for yourself
and be able to judge whether this is good or bad
and also just helps actual SIP to figure out
if there's any loophole involved.
If everybody can take a critical, put on a critical hat
and be able to know what they're actually voting on,
I think that's also part of what I'm trying to encourage.
And thank you very much for the efforts
and that regard with the discussion
that's been going on in the stacks forum so far.
Has, have voices generally been unanimous
in support of the approval?
Are there some notable issues
that might require some consideration?
Because obviously I think we're all very excited
to see five seconds of block times,
but obviously we shouldn't be blinded by that
into perhaps overlooking some details or concerns
that might arise from that.
Yeah, so that's why the SIP requires the review
of economic SAP and technical SAP and governance SAP.
And one of the points that Matthew has brought up
was what does that guarantee actually guarantees?
And that's been sort of discussed in,
in, I think there was a call between Matthew and Manip
or some other people, the developers,
just to make sure like in the writing
of the SIP document itself,
people are aware what the perimeter of the guarantee
that we're talking about the five seconds
because Bitcoin can reorg
and what happens when Bitcoin reorg,
how does it play out on the stack side,
on the stack transaction?
And so there was some question about that
and that just need better definition
and better understanding of what happens on loan stay
and what happens based on further improvement,
there can be better guarantees
for those five second blocks.
So I think it's been currently worked on
to ensure better definition and better understanding
of the improvement that comes with how hard it is
those five seconds in the future.
So apart from this, I am not aware
like there is much else like contentions.
Everything else seems pretty logical
and rightly needed for the upgrade.
I think for MEV mitigation,
I was watching Jude's YouTube from Bitcoin Unleashed,
London, even himself was saying like,
if anybody there's no like black and white
what is the right way to mitigate MEV?
There are so many different ideas and possibilities out there.
So it's kind of like as many people,
as many ideas out there collated together
and thought about discuss
and anybody who is really good in maths
can even chime in with the idea on MEV.
And I think it's just like a,
the best knowledge we have to mitigate MEV
based on the median of the last 10 blocks,
plus there's a minimum bidding fee basically.
And that's try this method and see how it goes.
And this is the best method we know so far.
So that's something to be aware too.
MEV is a very difficult thing to,
I don't know if there's any way to completely eliminate,
but you can minimize it so to such a low extent
that it doesn't happen impact greatly.
So if anybody have good knowledge or experience
this is a part where as an ecosystem,
we can continue to monitor how it goes,
how it factors our solution after we go live
and maybe continue to improve up on it.
Yeah, I could do, go ahead actually.
Thanks for having me up guys.
I just, I've had like a few conversations
about what we were just describing.
So I figured I'd chime in.
To my knowledge, there should be a way
to guarantee the replayability of all transactions
that are not dependent upon Bitcoin state.
I think that's something that you'll be able to determine
on day one of Nakamoto to guarantee transaction ordering.
Now, I don't know how that plays out for DeFi products.
It might be, you might still want to wait
for Bitcoin finality because there might be some
transactions like up the stack that maybe depend
on some kind of Bitcoin, sorry,
on some kind of Bitcoin state transaction.
I don't know, but for us at Stacks 20
and for the meta protocol landscape,
so far all those transactions are just Stacks transactions.
They don't rely on Bitcoin state at all.
So we should be able to take full advantage
assuming that there's some ability to determine
the transaction ordering is going to stay the exact same
if there is a Bitcoin reorg.
And it sounds like as long as it doesn't affect
Bitcoin state, the ordering will be the same.
So I think we should be good,
but I don't know exactly how that plays out for DeFi.
And I do know that in the future,
they want to have some kind of a way to mitigate that.
Yeah, there was a pretty good comment by Jude on this,
also on Twitter that I saw,
I'm probably a little spin in the Stacks forums,
but yeah, there was some,
yeah, there was some exactly the time can be measured
in between Bitcoin blocks, right?
And that's basically what we,
that's what we all need and what we all want here.
No, that's cool, but I don't know,
is there anything else that's cool on Stacks 20 front
I mean, a lot of stuff going down behind the scenes,
we're gearing up for the reveal of Stacks Maps,
which a lot of people in our community
The Stacks Map story is hilarious
because more or less some team on Solana
decided to make a Stacks Maps like fake protocol
And it was something that we always wanted to build,
but we were really focused on Stacks 20s and sortinels.
But then what happened was we had to come out in front of it
because it seems so, so not what we had in mind
for an implementation on Stacks Maps.
And we're like, okay, we wanna give people
what they actually interpret Stacks Maps as,
which is very similar to a bitmaps.
We're following everything we can
from the bitmap meta protocol.
almost like front run this rug more or less.
Reveal soon as well as marketplace soon.
Not allowed to give hard timelines anymore,
but we're really excited for that
as well as just getting some things,
some tooling in place with our indexers
that way the long-term goal
is to have some kind of like client
that people can run to independently verify
And so I would to be much more decentralized
because it's obviously right now quite centralized
and working with partners
to get them the data they need for Stacks 20s.
So that's kind of what's been going on in the background.
And in regards to SatScreen,
or just supporting as much analytics we can on Stacks 20s,
as well as maintaining our agnostic Bitcoin layer one,
layer two analysis to the best we can.
Like we're adding some more features for TAP protocol soon.
And eventually we want to add
potentially a dashboard for a tonical.
So anything that is in use on layer one
or layer twos for Bitcoin,
we want to have a dashboard for.
So kind of like as user demand picks up
in different ecosystems, we will follow suit.
Very cool, very cool, very cool.
That's yeah, obviously always, yeah.
Everyone on the show should always be careful
That's when you're careful about timelines,
that usually means you're close, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's usually what I do.
I start becoming more and more careful
Soon, soon Stacks map soon.
If anyone owns a Stacks map,
I guess maybe to round it all off,
like I don't know Philip, Welsh news,
like, I mean, I've seen a lot,
there was a lot happening.
Maybe also, you know, more on the,
you know, the whole discord side of things, but.
Yeah, what happened with the hack there?
I'm curious to know, I saw a post about it.
I don't, I know that it wasn't like,
there was no damage done,
but I know that there was a hack.
I actually got approached with the same message
and I almost like fell into it as well in the trap.
So basically, one of the community members,
he received a message for an interview on this course
and it's basically a DM, right?
So someone DMs, you check them out,
Then you say, okay, I love to do that interview
because who doesn't want exposure?
You join a discord called our network
and I did join the discord too
and it was like 13,000 people in there,
you scroll through it, it looks like legit activity.
Then you click verify, you know,
cause you have to always verify any discord
to join these days, you need to verify
that you're a real human,
but then it sends you to this webpage
and it asks you to drag and drop this like weird
JavaScript snippet to your bookmarks
and execute that like when you have the discord browser open
and then the red flags, I mean, I'm a developer
and so then the red flags, they start going off, right?
It's like, I'm not going to drag and drop something
onto my bookmarks, which is JavaScript snippet.
I saw some like encoding of like an API key or something
and that gives you temporarily permissions
to your account and when you click it,
like it's all screwed up basically.
And so someone on the world's discord was an admin.
You know, I think it's a very sophisticated attack,
to be honest, because even I was like,
okay, this is legit interview, right?
And so I was like, why do they need to do it
on discord through that interview?
Can't you just like, they're like, oh yeah,
it's asynchronous, send me an email, this and that,
but I was like, you're not thinking, right?
You're thinking people are good,
they want to give you exposure and all those things,
but yeah, I would say anyone on discord,
just like be really careful,
especially if you're a protocol founder
or whatever an active person in the community
don't get, you know, your discord accounts.
But look, I think shit happens
and everything has been restored.
So no, I mean, I think some people got like screwed
a little bit because obviously fake links
to claim well on Ethereum and things like that
started going around, but I don't think
the Welsh team, well, there is no team,
but I don't think anyone in Welsh
would ever create a Welsh coin on Ethereum
that does not make any sense.
So don't fall into the trap.
There will be no additional tokens.
Airdrops will be announced if there are any,
So just enjoy the good vibes
and yeah, be careful out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, some obsec advice there.
That's, I mean, yeah, those are some good things.
I wonder, hold on, I think I got,
I wanna know if this is what the message was like
cause I have a DM request
and I've just been too busy to respond to it.
Hey, open to press inquiries regarding Stacks20.
Was it something like that?
Was it this like soft fishing kind of approach?
It started like really soft, yeah,
until your reply and I said, send over the questions.
It was not that username.
The person who contacted me was Joe something something
with like some numbers, but yeah, it was similar.
It starts really soft and then yeah,
trying to win your trust and kind of things, yeah.
This is why that doesn't make sense.
Like press releases are great,
but a lot of the times like press just, you know,
takes, listens to a recorded Twitter space, right?
And then they just quote you or, you know,
they just know what's going on in the ecosystem
and they take some numbers
and they make a press release themselves.
You don't really have to do interviews.
The form of interviews I feel like in this domain
is hopping on a Twitter space
and usually someone Twitter DMs you
and you know, they're verified
and like there's no reason for any of us really
to accept these Discord DMs
because if they were legit,
they just reach out to us on Twitter, right?
I mean, I have gotten like video interviews,
written interviews, Twitter space,
and a lot of those things have been legit.
I'm not sure what the format should be,
but definitely the easiest is just,
hey join our Twitter spaces
and feel free to quote me whatever I say.
Yeah, I'm gonna stay away from Discord DMs now.
Just based off what you said,
I might just say, hey DM me on Twitter.
Don't always be careful with the direct ones, right?
Yeah, I think maybe a bunch of us
maybe might need to hop on.
We've been here for a little bit over an hour already.
But yeah, maybe any sort of quick last words
which people get excited about.
Yeah, I guess guests first,
like Albridge, do you wanna start the closing off?
If you're still there, of course.
Otherwise, maybe set up, you wanna go?
but join us on Arcadico Finance.
That's one word on Twitter.
We've got a YouTube great coming up.
It's gonna be a lot of good stuff.
We have blog posts coming up explaining everything.
We're gonna do some Twitter spaces purely dedicated
to our upgrades as well, AMAs and all those things.
So that's Arcadico Finance.
And now we have StackingDAO,
first liquid stacking on Stacks.
Join the family, join the good fun
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome.
Yeah, it's your next team, my hero gamer.
Do you wanna close this up?
I'm just excited for Nakamoto Testnet coming up soon here.
I think everyone that is developer focused,
even if you're a hobbyist,
if you're interested in running a Stacks node in the future,
whatever level of expertise you have,
keep a close eye on that.
It's gonna affect all of us in a positive way.
So I'm just really excited about that.
And on the personal front,
if you wanna check anything out,
join the Discord, discord.com slash Stacks 20,
Discord.gg, sorry, right?
Go to the Stacks 20 Twitter officially
and click that Discord link.
But yeah, just really excited about Nakamoto.
That's really where my mind share is at right now.
If you like Stacks Maps, join the Discord.
Aside from that, that's all.
Yeah, from me, I just would love everybody,
just remind everybody to go to vote in a couple of weeks.
And yeah, just go participate in this decentralized ecosystem.
This is where your voice is heard
and you can express your opinion about Nakamoto.
And you'll be able to claim a little badge
to go over your PFP to say I've voted.
I wanna get those badges.
That, nice one, nice one.
But yeah, find us on at zestprotocol on Twitter.
And then on zestprotocol.com,
you'll want to be some of the first to use it
that can request early access.
Like we'll start with the whitest at launch,
just to make sure the UI is correct.
So be there, be there, be there, be there.
But yeah, I guess that's it for me.
I guess over to co-host Hadan to finish things off.
Definitely to encourage everyone to check out
in both on next week's, well the,
I guess the 10th SAP upgrade on Stacks.
It's a really important conversation to engage in,
inform yourself of, you know,
when we have the show next week,
it'd be great if anyone wants to come up
and discuss some of the ins and outs and pros and cons.
I think that's really getting into the real core
of the future of Stacks going forward.
And on the Alex side, you know,
follow the Alex Twitter account here in the spaces
to follow us on Discord, discord.gg slash Alex Lab.
And we have some exciting announcements
We have, you know, a packed IDEO pipeline
and so plenty of opportunities to look into
and maybe participate in some emerging projects.
And yeah, great to share the spaces with you all
and to talk Stacks and Bitcoin DeFi.
Yeah, guys, LFG, LFG, LFG, earn some points.
Stay safe and see you next week, same time.
There will be some cool announcements
coming from a few protocols on Stacks,
I know, lately this week, I think, likely.
So we can talk more about them next week.
So yeah, great, great to be here guys.
Always fantastic and then we'll chat soon.