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THE X SPACES CREW | WTF IS HAPPENING ON X?
Recorded: Sept. 25, 2025 Duration: 0:54:51Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the evolving landscape of social media engagement, highlighting trends in AI and political content, the potential for growth in audio spaces, and the challenges of monetization and sponsorship in the crypto ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. man they got that that music on point in these spaces these days
music comes in i don't think you guys can hear it. Penny, you can't hear the music
when you first turn the space, can you?
Last time I started a space,
I did not hear any music of my own.
I don't know whether the audience heard it or not.
I don't hear any, like, when you started this one.
You did or didn't?
I did not.
Yeah, I don't think people hear it
when I started, unfortunately.
It just seems to be a issue.
You know, hey, it's 2020.
Hey, they had Kalshi in South Park before they fixed spaces.
That's going to be my new meme.
Before GCA6 came out was the old one.
Now it's before they fixed spaces.
That's going to be the theme.
But we can get into it. By the way, Alex won't be here today, so we can all just make fun of him behind his back this time instead of his face. No, I'm just
kidding. All right, let's talk about it. Interesting times here on the timeline, man.
It's real political out here. It's real AI out here. It's everything just tuned up to the next level.
It's a lot of prediction market stuff going on across the board.
So I don't know.
It stays interesting, I would say.
I appreciate the audience popping in.
I know I haven't done the XBases career in a few weeks.
My life's been a little bit insane.
But I wanted to hop back on and just have a little fun chat and talk about the things that are going on.
Maybe talk monetization.
Hear how you guys have been getting your checks and different stuff like that from the platform.
How that's been going for people.
Analytics.
If people feel like they've been getting a good shakeout here.
Analytics for me have been interesting.
I continue to watch them pretty avidly over the last four weeks.
You know, I pretty much just stay in line, I feel like, with how my last few months have been going continues to chug upwards.
Penny, how many verified followers you at?
It's like 27,000 or 28,000.
I think I'm at 25% of my total followers are verified.
It's pretty good.
I'm at 10%, about 43,000 of mine are verified.
So something I keep my eyes on but let me turn
over to you first then we got lucas and ani up here and we can talk through a bunch of stuff
but first off just like timeline content approach what's been working for you what have you been
enjoying lately i find myself lately um getting off twitter more often um i just feel like sometimes
it's just all the same shit sometimes on the
timeline i come and i'm just like this is like not not like always enjoyable like maybe i need
to curate my time a little bit better maybe a little bit more sports or something like that
i'm just curious like how you uh are seeing it well i've been really busy off the timeline which
has kept me off x some i think probably the biggest thing is that I'm
trying to invest in more like longer form content. For example, this week I drove three hours each
way to LA and back to interview, uh, someone who I met when I was flying jets with Jared Isaacman.
So, you know, just like trying to get more into the long form interviews.
I did my first like long space, uh, this week in a long time.
And that was fun too.
So I'm paying less attention to the timeline itself and like, yeah, trying to make long
form content and trying to do spaces, I think interact like in more, I guess, fulfilling
ways. The timeline's great too. And I
love to go on there and catch up with what exactly is happening. You know, the news though has been
depressing, right? It's like, how many times do you want to see a new shooting, whether it's at
an ice facility or, you know, all of the other different things that we've seen lately.
So I think, you know, to some extent, just like all of the awful things that are in the
news lately, uh, make it less enjoyable sometimes to be on the timeline.
I think it could be really fun, uh, or, you know, I don't know if fun is the right word,
but good for people's mental health.
If you could have a mode that just kept all that crap off, you know, maybe for an hour at a time
or something. Yeah, I agree with you. It seems like there's just shootings every day, but you
did mention something pretty cool. They're flying planes with Jared Eisenman. You want to tell us
a little bit more about that? So yeah, I got lucky enough to be invited to like the most amazing private hangar I've ever seen.
It looks like the Star Wars cantina.
It is Disney level quality with like Star Wars characters and that like sort of retro future feel to it.
it. Uh, that is like the bar in the hangar. And then the hangar is full of everything from, uh,
That is like the bar in the hangar.
a few MiG 29s to some alpha jets. Uh, he recently got, I think five different F fives, which is,
uh, a supersonic American, uh, training jet. So painted those up, uh, red, white, and blue. And he's like regularly taking people up on flights.
And, uh, it was absolutely incredible. I got to go, I think it was like five G's, maybe even six
G's. I, uh, I got to be inverted like five different times. I got to take the stick on the
alpha jet and, and, you know, uh, go upside down. We had Jared, who's like, you know,
an incredible pilot did that top gun move over me where they, where they fly inverted and they're
on top and, you know, like give them the bird or whatever. He didn't do the bird, but he did that
move where he was like upside down, right on top of the cockpit. And I got to just like look up and
see that like you would normally at an air show or something. So it's just such a incredible opportunity.
And you can imagine the people that are around an event like that are all super, super cool.
So I met this guy, Casey, who has a factory up in Burbank.
And what he's trying to do is use solar power to create useful things.
And like the first thing that he's doing is creating natural gas using solar
power.
So he's got a factory up there and he's got like 20 different engineers
working for him,
a bunch of young,
you know,
hardworking guys.
It looks like,
and they're,
yeah,
they're trying to first create synthetic fuels.
He talked about a bunch of other different cool things that they're going to try to make
with solar power, but it's like a cool American, uh, you know, like build something real entrepreneur
story.
Like so many people have made their fortunes lately off like crypto or software or, you
know, things like that.
But he's like, he's making natural gas from solar power and he's going to make, uh, you know, things like that. But he's like, he's making natural gas from solar power
and he's going to make, uh, you know, other gases and he's going to make, uh, you know, metals. So,
you know, in the future, he may be like a giant of the steel industry. And, uh, that's just someone
who I got to meet, uh, because of connections on X, which is, you know, like a thousand times
better than the timeline. It's like, who do you meet? Where do you go? How do you take advantage of it? Uh, you know, that
ultimately is like the most fulfilling bit to me. That's awesome. That sounds like a pretty
incredible experience. He's racking up them G's five G six G's. God, I love to see that shout
out to Jared as well. Um, I was watching the Mr. Beast live stream the other day
when he was trying to raise the rest of the money
for Team Water.
And Jared actually called in live
and was like, yep, put me down for 250K.
And basically like kind of filled out
most of the rest of that 40 million
that they were trying to get to,
which was pretty cool.
So he's flying jets
and giving people around the world water,
which you got to love to see.
So yeah, that sounds like a pretty once in a lifetime experience.
To be honest.
Did you need any certification to be flying a jet like that or to be taking
the wheel and stick to one of those things?
No, the only certification was like, uh,
don't barf in the cockpit and, uh,
listen to the real pilot because there was someone else obviously in the jet with me.
Uh, they would have taken over if anything went really wrong, but they did, you know,
give me the instructions on what to do to do a role.
And they let me take the stick and I did the role and it was successful.
And, uh, man, it is like really a once in a life experience for anyone, but I wanted
to be a fighter pilot when I was growing up.
Like I love air shows still to this day.
Like I, you know, went alone last year to the new, the air show nearest here, and I'm
trying to drag my daughters to come with me this year.
And, uh, it's just so much fun for me to be around these big flying machines, but to be
in one and to be doing stunts like that was
just something that I thought I was, you know, I thought my opportunity for that had passed.
And instead of never doing it and I got to do it and I may even get a chance to do it again. And
that's wild. Yeah. One thousand percent, super sick. Glad to hear that you did not barf, uh, inside there. That probably
wouldn't have been good. Uh, did it feel like you were going to pass out at any point from like the
pressure? So, uh, full disclosure, I did barf. I just successfully barfed in the bag, not on the
cockpit. I never had my vision close in on me, which is what a lot of people described.
They thought that they might pass out from the G forces. The G forces to me just felt like
pressure, but I never lost any like a vision peripheral or otherwise. I did really like
every time I got inverted, my stomach hurt more and it felt like it was progressive,
uh, except when I took the stick and did it, then it felt more natural. There's something
similar to when you're driving a car. Like if you're in the back seat and you're looking at
your phone, uh, you get sick, but if you're in the front seat, holding the wheel and actually
doing the driving, then car sickness usually isn't a problem. I think it's the same thing in jets.
So like I got sick to my stomach during the rolls when I wasn't controlling them.
But other than that, um, just the G's.
Yeah.
It felt like you had to brace yourself for it, but I felt a lot of G's, uh, getting
hit, uh, you know, whether it's like boxing or football or stuff like that.
So like, I know how to brace myself and like, you know, that part didn't bother me as much.
Pretty sweet. Pretty sweet. Very cool. Penny Lucas, do you have a story that can compete here?
I actually want to ask questions though, because how many G's did you actually pull dude? Because
of course you didn't gray out if you went like, you know, two or three or four G's. That's pretty
cool though. I would love to F5 aggressors or just like f5s in general i'm just
so you guys know i was uh from when i was like five until i was like 18 i was going to be a
naval fighter pilot my entire life i grew up like you know flying i actually got my private pilot
license and stuff like that at a really young age and then um, yeah, man, I wanted to be a fighter pilot. And then I realized that being 6'5 did not help being a fighter pilot.
You couldn't really fit in a lot of airplanes.
Actually, 99% of planes I could not fit into.
I wanted to, though.
I tried to, like, duck in.
I'm like, I can fit.
Don't worry.
So I didn't really get a chance.
Wow, I think this is the first time somebody being tall.
Yeah, I heard.
Tall, you guys have short privilege. I hate that your short privilege is really, it really bothers me.
Yeah. So I was in an alpha jet.
Oh, I like the alpha jets. They're great.
They are great. And I did, I fit, but even at like 6'2", it was pretty tight.
They had to adjust the seat for sure. So I can imagine six, five,
uh, would be awful, but I, you know, I don't want to exaggerate. They said how many G's when I got
out of the plane. And last time I was talking about it, I said five and my girlfriend said,
wasn't it six. So like six seems like a lot, but, uh, maybe it was, it was a lot. It was enough
where like many of the other people, yeah, most of the other people, they didn maybe it was, it was a lot, it was enough where like many of the other people,
yeah, most of the other people, they didn't pass out, but they said that their vision
was closing in on them.
Yeah.
Graying out, man.
That's usually, like you said, the vision closes in when you were about to gray out.
It kind of looks like you're in a tunnel.
Uh, I've done a centrifuge before I've gotten up to like eight and a half G's before I kind
of like grayed out.
So that's really, um, that's's a cool that was really cool man i never got a i never got to fly in an alpha jet
before that sounds dope um big so what what i really want to do is is ride in jared's mig
uh he takes that thing mig 29 oh my god that'd be great yeah so i was i was scheduled to fly in the mig this time
but uh one of the engines needed service so they didn't end up taking anyone up in the mig but 29s
man i that's so cool fourth generation fighters are dope um a lot of people shit on them because
of fifth generation but i'm a big fan man i grew up with you know i wanted to fly an f-14 my entire
life as a kid i was just like f-14 tomcat then i was like oh man i'll be i guess i have to do an
f-18 now and i'm like that sucks um so yeah yeah so being tall sucks you want to be a pilot so yeah
i don't really have any stories i could compete with being um in an alpha jet and doing some fun
acrobatics there's no doubt about it.
Sorry to hear you puke, though, dude.
I've been up in planes before in an acrobatic plane and a Cap 10.
I've flown a Cap 10 before and stuff like that. I don't know if you guys know what that is, but it's a Canadian aerobatics plane.
And I have to admit, it is true.
You grab the wheel, or you grab the stick, sorry, in this case.
You grab the stick, and it's like you do not feel sick.
And especially you feel more in control when you're actually flying that airplane
I mean, that's it's just true because you're you know, you're out of control. It's kind of like being on a
On a motorcycle. I don't know if you've ever driven a motorcycle
But you're on the back of a motorcycle when I was a kid I was on the back. I'm like, holy cow
I do not feel comfortable on the back of the motorcycle
But when you're driving it you feel like you're in full control.
Right.
And that's how I feel.
I feel like that's how flying is.
And to get past that fear,
usually at least my flight instructor was like,
you know what?
I'm going to take you up the altitude and I'm just going to let you mess
around with it until you feel comfortable flying this plane,
put it up on knife's edge and all these like things where you just feel good about it and you know obviously altitude is your as a pilot is like your your best friend so
it was uh that's how i got used to flying and this most good so i don't really have a story
to compete with flying in an effing alpha jet um but glad to be up here chatting with you guys
today it's a better conversation like you you said, on the timeline, so much toxic, crazy news going on that I had to unplug.
I literally unplugged all weekend this weekend when I had a ton of work to do.
But I'm just like, dude, I got to get away from all this drama.
There's so much crazy stuff going on in the world right now.
You just got to get away, work out, get out and go for long walks, go for jogs, whatever you got to do. You got to get away work out like get out and like go for long walks go for jogs
whatever you got to do like you got to get away from the internet even though your business is on
the internet right like my all my stuff is like through the internet everything is through the
internet basically right now um so it's it's tough when you have a business that operates through the
internet and you have to be away.
I mean, this is the part of delegating people's work
so that when you're not around, the business still operates.
So I think that's something we all have to learn
is that if you are the big stopgap
in whatever you're doing on the internet,
you should try to remove yourself.
So if you do need to not be around,
the business can still operate
without you you can take a day or two or a week or or three weeks or months off if you have to
that's just my opinion but what else is going on guys
very interesting stuff on you want to chime in yeah um the timeline oh god don't even want to
talk about last week that was way too crazy and uh i don't um i usually don't take breaks from
social media but that was just insane so i definitely did have to take a day or two after
the whole irena then charlie and um watching the live stream of Erica Kirk going, oh my God, it was just sad,
absolute sad. And, you know, just try to bring some positivity to the timeline every day,
whenever I can. And otherwise, like timeline wise, I've been noticing a lot of different
things where like the algorithm is very adaptive to your behavior. So if you are like whoever I
reply to once will almost guaranteed see my posts on their timeline because I see them replying to
me. And then if I hit like not interested in certain things, it will actually respect that.
And I've been able to kind of take a lot of those kind of violent news type deals off of my timeline just by continuously hitting not interested on everything that I see.
And then interactions are much more adaptive, like I was saying, like whatever I whoever I interact with, I get to see them more. And if they comment on my
posts, I get to see them more. So I've been kind of like navigating and the algorithms been kind of
been very adaptive with me and nice with nice to me, I guess. But impressions analytics, like you
were talking about before have been terrible. It's very difficult to get a post to kind of stick. Doesn't matter what
it is, if it's a long form or short form or whatever it is. And long forms are actually
doing a little bit better than they were about maybe a month or so ago. But yeah, it's just
been a mess, I feel like. Can you talk to us a little bit of that? Because I know that you've done
really well on the ad revenue and what's that been like for you and how like general like
content and analytics have been. Yeah. So I saw a couple of posts from Nikita Beer kind of talking
about how they're structuring the payouts. I think what they're trying to do is letting,
incentivizing more people to kind of post about, post within niches, right? You guys probably have
seen Levels.io. He actually commented on one of their posts because they got a very high payout,
which like their numbers are very, very good. But Nikita actually commented on one
of his posts saying that, you know, micro-initious, we're going to try to reward people who
contribute to micro-initious more. So, and I've been seeing that because I tend to do a lot of
educational or tutorial style posts around AI, or I've been getting a lot involved within like Rock Imagine and all that
stuff too. So what I've seen is my payouts have actually been up higher than what I was getting
even for much lower analytics, engagement, whatever you call it. So I wonder if that's
been contributing to it because I am kind of like
going a little bit of a micro niche and making sure that I continuously post content around
AI or AI art. And I wonder if the algorithm is kind of detecting that automatically and
raising my payouts a little bit. But yeah, analytics have been pretty low, if I'm going to be honest, like probably like I've seen like 30 to 40 percent lower numbers than I was doing about two months ago.
But my payouts are a little bit higher, like even my last payout was higher than the one before that.
So I think that micro niche thing is kind of kind of true and the algorithms adjusting to it.
But that I don't,
I also don't think it means that you have to post about that one thing. I think as long as you contribute something to the algorithm, um, within a certain niche, you're fine. Cause even my posts,
if you look at them, I constantly do different things like good morning posts. I also do, um,
personal branding posts, I do spaces. Um, Yeah. So I'm still doing a mix,
but I'm still, I'm contributing to one or two niches every single day. So I think that is
contributing to my payouts and I've seen higher ones.
Ani, I think that there's a few factors probably going on there. If I'm to speculate,
going on there, if I'm to speculate, you know, Nikita hates bots. So I think he's been cracking
down both on bots that are, you know, previously racking up views for us, but also bots that were
jacking payout money. So like, if you really crack down on those bots, they said they had
the biggest crackdown day ever. I think it was like, uh,
I don't know, a week or so ago, 500,000, 500,000 bots, right? Like who knows how much of the
revenue, you know, was being stolen from bot farms like that. And how many views were pumping,
not just their pages, but they also have to pump people's pages like mine and yours so that
their bots are hidden a little bit better.
Right.
I think that, uh, that there's some element of, of both of that happening.
I've noticed my views go down some in general also, but I still feel like every time I check
back on the algorithm, almost without fail, uh, if, if something is going to go viral right now, and for the past
six months, at least it's got to have a high engagement percent, like that just matters so
much right now. That's how you break through is you have to have a high engagement percentage.
That's totally different from, uh, it seems how we're getting paid right now, which I do feel
like, uh, you know, if you post another thing thing I think they're cracking down on is duplicate content, right?
Like if you just do the same thing multiple times, I don't think you get paid for it anymore.
I think it pulls it out of the stats for, you know, calculating revenue.
These are all speculations.
I don't have any inside information, just what's been publicly said on the timeline.
And then me knowing a little bit about how these systems work and how they might engineer
And then, you know, hearing anecdotally from people like Ani, what's happening to their
payouts.
It does feel like the bot crackdown may have a lot to do with it.
Yeah, I completely agree with you.
Do you think the duplicate content thing, right?
So I repurpose my content sometimes,
like I'll do, I'll take my, I'll take something that I posted three to four months ago or six
months ago or something, and then kind of repurposes. Sometimes it might just be a copy
paste because I know there's other people who haven't seen it. Do you think there's a time limit on as to how what's considered duplicate content?
Yeah.
Um, well, they're probably running some kind of algorithm to see like how different your
content is from other things that's been posted in the past.
And it's probably like some, um, yeah, I don't know.
There's different ways that they could process it.
An exact match is like a really easy thing to do, but it's also really easy to game.
So there are other ways that are harder to game.
Also performance, you need to think about when you think about how they're going to
engineer it.
Like, are they going to look at every post ever created?
Well, that would cost a lot of energy and money and time on their processors to do that. So
a time limit does make sense, right? Like what would that time limit be? Uh, in the past,
I've seen people set time limits in situations like that to a week, two weeks, a month. Uh,
I think that those are probably the most likely, uh, horizons that they're putting on the duplicate content
things. But, you know, I, again, I have no inside information.
Yeah, no, I, that's, that's fair. I feel like as long as you're not doing it every day, or even
every day or even like multiple times during the day. Cause we've seen those too, right? We've seen,
like multiple times during the day, because we've seen those too, right? We've seen,
it's so funny. I saw an account one time, um, um, they had 72, they had posted GM, just the word GM
72 times in a day. And like, that would be the limit that you should not be doing, but
I think, um, one or two weeks, a month or so is, it's pretty okay.
Yeah. Especially like you said, not everyone sees every post you make. Uh, if you have 10,000
followers and you get 1000 views on your post, that means 9,000 people didn't see it. So, uh,
you know, I, I agree that sometimes there's value in posting the same
thing multiple times and sometimes you're just trying to spread a message right it's like you
don't need to change it but uh i guess just don't get hurt if it doesn't pad your revenue right like
that kind of content doesn't necessarily deserve to get paid right like some people do want to see
a motivational one-liner or something and you know you know, if you go ultra viral, maybe you get a few bucks for it.
But like, I really think that the people that should get paid are the people that are making
videos that are writing essays that are like, you know, putting real work into their content.
That's who deserves the money from my point of view.
So, um, yeah, I don't mind if they take it out of the
revenue share program, give it all to the people that do hard work. Yeah. I feel like articles
should contribute a lot more than they do right now. Articles. Okay. So have you been experimenting
with articles at all? I feel like they're performing much better now. You know, I haven't,
I haven't been writing much long form. Maybe I should. I think, you know, haven't uh i haven't been writing much long form maybe i should i think you know the
articles make a lot of sense from uh they can easily get accessed from search engines whereas
like your posts it's a little bit more difficult uh and you know they are cool like the formatting
and everything and it makes sense for x to want people to put their content there because then they can train, uh, you know,
their AIs off of it and, you know, just more, uh, links incoming. If you write like a long article,
a website might link incoming to that article. And that's good for X also. So there's so many
reasons why they would pump articles. I haven't done that, but I think another example, like,
you know, that's probably near and dear to all of us is spaces. Like spaces are really high quality, high effort content. And the people who
listen, I think are probably the people who spend money on the platform. And, you know,
it just makes sense to me that some of the revenue shares should go to spaces hosts.
Oh, a hundred percent. I had this whole theory that I posted in, sorry, I got a call. I had this whole theory
that I posted in one of the premium feedback ones. Why don't Spaces Host get paid for listeners?
Like the amount of listeners, like people like Diligent or Wolf have, right? Thousands and
thousands of people and they get nothing for it. And we are essentially keeping people on the
platform for that amount of time. Right. So like those, I feel like listeners should somehow
contribute to payouts, even if it's a penny per, per listener, like it, it would be such a huge help.
Well, yeah. I mean, even if you had to do something like, uh, if someone spends a lot of time listening to your spaces, when you post, it should jump straight to the front of their timeline. And like, maybe that's how you get some of the revenue share. Right. But at the end of the day, right now, uh, these spaces hosts are providing really, really high quality content. And one, it's not easy to reuse. Like I would love if they had some system running in the background and it recommends
clips and like puts it in a, in a, uh, uh, workflow so that it's easy for you to post
them on your timeline.
It's like, here was a highlight.
This is when you got the most emojis during the space.
This is when everyone threw in hundreds, right?
So just like click a button and, and it makes a clip for you and post it on your time
that kind of stuff uh you know they wouldn't even necessarily have to to change the payout algorithm
just make it easier for spaces folks to get their stuff out there you know spaces dashboard
tried to create this and the company's now been like acquired shut down to something like that
but they had like a little kind of graph that would show like hey here's your space running and over time here's where you had the most
reactions and they were trying to recreate it but honestly i don't think that twitter made it very
easy for them with the api it was seemed like it was amazingly just like difficult and expensive
and so nobody's pursuing that nobody's trying to build it and then the bigger issue of why they
share no revenue is because they don't make any revenue right spaces are a pure i don't know if it's a loss leader's
right way to put it but they don't make any revenue uh twitter doesn't monetize spaces at all
right the timeline they're share revenue because they have sponsors they have never opened up to
their sponsors hey like we'll connect you with the top spaces hosts or you know we'll create some
type of system here we can make money off it so that's why they don't share any money it's because
they don't make any money so i don't know really what's going to
even happen with this product long-term because they don't make any money off it. So like,
what's, what's the real pull for them? Well, I mean, if you're, if, if a lot of the spaces users
are premium plus members, you know what I mean? Like they make revenue other ways. And if it
brings people to the platform so that they're reading ads in the first place, because they love spaces, which I just, I mean, I don't know,
maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like if they lost spaces, it would be a net loss for X and the
whole community as a whole. And it would make the site less valuable. So it's like, I think that
it's second order thinking or higher order thinking to not necessarily
look at the revenue directly from that product, but more what it contributes to the ecosystem.
Yeah.
It's just hard to track that, right?
It is, it is.
And you know, uh, you get what you track.
It's hard to track that it's hard to create the right incentives. Um,
but I do think, uh, you know, there's an art to building a platform like this. And if you just
look at the analytics of every feature, you may lose out on some of that art.
I mean, they control this platform so they could easily track these numbers and make these
dashboards. And I mean, priority wise, they could make this thing super valuable I mean all it really is
is you know there this is an ad you know the entire platforms and ad network
right we just are using the ad network the way we were using it they could
easily monetize spaces if they wanted to they just see it as a value kind of like
a loss leader product category which I think is so short-sighted because everybody listens like i i've had um i'm
sure you guys have it too is youtube um premium where you can just like start a video put it put
the phone in your pocket close you know you don't have to have your phone lit up and stuff like that
and you can just like hear the audio um i always i go for really long walks every day, and I'm always listening to video.
I'm listening more than I'm watching videos on YouTube.
I'm listening more than I'm, you know, I pop into an audio space, and if it's good,
I'm listening to that audio space for the hour, hour and a half I'm walking.
I mean, it's such a high-touch tool.
It's also like a full-funnel metric that can come from audio spaces.
You can learn, you can find an audio space, don't know who the person's running it come in listen hear what
this person's saying you like it go to their profile you go oh wow i like what their profile
says bam you're following them and then within like 30 maybe 30 minutes or less you could possibly
be signing up with their newsletter or buying something from them so within 30 minutes or less, you could possibly be signing up with their newsletter or buying
something from them. So within 30 minutes, like a full funnel, oh my God, I know who this guy is
or this girl is. Now I'm going to follow them. Oh, wow. They have a newsletter. I'm going to
sign up for that. Oh, wow. I'm actually going to buy the thing that that's on their profile
because I trust what they've been saying for the last 20 or 30 minutes it builds trust really really fast especially if you know what you're talking about so i think twitter
spaces is absolutely a diamond in the rough right now and nobody's really paying all that much
attention to it even though it's high value because think about how many other places can you
communicate um back and forth to the people who are listening to you.
It's a very rare thing.
Podcasts are a one-to-many,
and Twitter spaces are a one-to-many communication but also listening.
So podcasts are just a one-to-many outlet.
They just broadcast.
And social media, we all know, is social.
If you're just broadcasting and not interacting with your
community you get nothing back from it just broadcasting doesn't do it broadcasting and
like communicating back twitter spaces it can hear your voice can hear your intonation you can
actually hear you really get it rather than just some tweet somebody manufactured for you
somewhere i don't know.
I think there's a huge value in this Twitter audio or even video.
Obviously, video, there's even a higher parasocial relationship built really, really quickly.
But again, even when you stream on Twitter, like I've streamed a lot on Twitter,
like last year and this year, I streamed a bunch.
And those tests, those streams i did got a lot of
viewers but they didn't get interactions people are just listening and also i believe video on
twitter has a problem where if you put like if you host a stream people can't do more than one
thing while they're on that stream they're locked into that. If you try to go away from it and try to keep tweeting or keep using Twitter, it doesn't work. So Twitter Spaces is even more valuable
there too because they don't have their video down in Twitter Spaces that's done well yet.
Now, if you could stream and interact with people, kind of like a Discord chat where you're
communicating back and forth, but you could still text and be be all on that that is the way to do it i just don't see um i don't know
video creates complexity and friction for people right like at least the person who's producing
the video you have to look good you have to have your camera on you have to have your lighting
ready twitter spaces offers you i could wake up right now, two minutes ago, push Twitter spaces
and host a space and just talk with amazing creators on it. And then bam, you have,
you're building your audience, you have all this trust and you don't have to look
all fancy for the camera. I think it's such a slept on tool. I know Wolf, you have not slept
on it, Penny. I know you haven't slept on it. I'm just saying like in general,
I think a lot of people sleep on it and it's such a valuable tool that even
I've been sleeping on recently.
like I said,
I was doing streaming just to test and then compare analytics.
And I realized while I was testing,
no one could talk to you.
Like it was almost,
you had a call.
You had to have almost like a call-in number for people to like
reach out to you because hardly anybody's commenting they don't know how to use it
it's just streaming is a one-to-many unfortunately and i think uh i think audio is still
high touch if they could fix the audio or the video inside the audio you know the uh the twitter
spaces and get rid of that that uh video where video where people are just commenting and you have to comment back
I don't know I think that would be
the value the Twitter spaces would open up a
whole new thing if you could stream
inside of a space
without having to use your phone
to do it as well I think that would be
magical if that's possible
I hosted
my space last week from
the desktop because I have nice audio equipment and I want to take advantage of it.
And it turned out to be a disaster because hosting in the web browser is just not it on X.
You have to use your phone.
And that's really sad.
You're right.
If I could stream from all the equipment that I have hooked up to my desktop and do it directly
in a space live stream, right?
Just like throw it up in the Jumbotron.
That would be super cool.
And they have had that as test feature for a long time now, but they haven't put enough
effort to polish it and release it for everyone.
And to me, that's like, uh, that's a tragedy
because you could really create cool, cool, uh, super interactive content. And you're right.
There's, I wish that they all, they said a long time ago, they'd open up spaces to have, uh, 20
speakers, uh, instead of 10 or whatever too. And man, that would be so cool. Like just a few
features that they could do that would make a big difference.
And there really isn't anything like it where you can have multiple people interacting together.
And then, yeah, broadcasting that out to the big group.
Because some people just want to listen.
But, you know, I think that there's a lot of value in several of us sharing our screens and talking about what's going on on our screen.
And switching to our camera if we want and hosting from our phone if we want,
because why not?
Like let's totally allow all people to do it low tech and high tech,
but damn,
I got a setup and I can't even use it.
Like that's a shame.
True story.
I have a killer setup,
like really cool setup and I can't effing use it it's driving me
nuts what's up poet what's up hey yeah i just want to bounce off the whole um spaces should
be monetized i 100 agree with this and luc, you were talking about your toxic timeline earlier.
Yeah, that's definitely a thing.
And I got to give a shout out to Ani on her Grok Imagine Spaces because, man, those are little gems right there.
But, yeah, it'd be cool to see spaces get monetized somehow.
And then, you know, the emojis people throw, that's engagements.
You know, I mean, that's worth something.
But what is it, Penny? Maybe one, two percent of Twitter users use spaces.
So really, here we are as the pioneers of something that is really going to take off at some point.
Lucas, I think I think spaces are only sleeping temporarily.
I think one of these days, people are going to catch on,
and here we are at the front end of something huge that's going to really explode.
So that's just my little contribution here.
Yeah.
So here's the deal.
I wish, right, because spaces have been around since 2021,
and that's the reason why I don't see I feel like it's like my space where it's they just
stopped innovating on spaces and they just gave up on it and they're just like oh we got other
things to we got other things that are bigger priority for us right now and I feel like it's
just the poor cousin right now I don't know it's just I I hope that's true I just don. I just don't see it at this point.
I'm not saying that they won't ever fix it,
but it feels like it's just such a low priority for them.
They just don't care about it.
Well, they lost the guy in charge,
and that makes it tough.
I think as we continue to see improvements
in AI writing software,
you know, at some point, ask Rock.
Do you guys think that more people are going to move over to live stream from Spaces?
Dude, the live stream is cool.
But like I said, it's hard to live stream on twitter
because you people who will tune into your live stream can't do anything else after they tune
into you like that's that's the dilemma i keep getting dms all the time when i live stream they're
like hey i would love to watch but i can't be on twitter and do all these other things unless i
open another window on my computer or you know know, most people tune in through phone. And once you're on the phone, you can't do anything else
on Twitter, right? You're literally live streaming. You have to watch that live stream,
or you have to, if you try to go somewhere else, it closes out the live stream.
So it's unfortunate. Like a lot of people will tune in, but then they're stuck where Twitter
spaces, you can open up, you know, you know, this world's the best is that you can open spaces and reduce the window and you can continue to operate on twitter
it's pretty awesome right and that i don't know why they wouldn't do that
seeing they already have video capabilities on twitter spaces it's really hard to live stream
you can't do picture in picture what do you mean like take the live stream and like like
turn into like a smaller screen,
like on the screen.
I've never done.
Not on phone,
but on the web you can.
Yeah.
On the web you can,
but on the phone you can't.
So think about like back,
if this was like 20,
like,
let's just say this is 2009,
2010,
obviously everybody would be still on their laptops or screens,
you know, and everything like that.
But like 89% of people access Twitter, probably more through their phone. Right. So if they're on their phone
and you're asking them to like, look at a video and also do other things that would work for the,
you know, eight to 9% of people that are on their desktops. Right. But theoretically,
like everybody's operating from their cell phones and that doesn't work. You can't watch a live stream and do anything else.
You have to watch a live stream.
You could,
I mean,
any other platform does this by the way,
but you could go on to YouTube,
watch a live streaming content,
reduce the window,
still use YouTube and scroll around YouTube.
If you want to,
you could still do things when you,
when you lock somebody into a user experience where you're either doing this or you're not doing this people are going to choose
not to stay on your live stream and when you i think if also if you reduce the window or or i
mean like close your phone you know i mean like just lock it but you can still you know usually
you could still hear an audio space if your phone locks in streaming it doesn't work that way as soon as
you lock it it stops streaming on your phone you have to unlock your phone so people you know the
person can watch it they can't just put it in their pocket and listen to the live stream so
that's a that's a big um downside because people who have premium like youtube they know they could
put on a video walk away with, put the phone in their pocket,
and still listening to it.
So that pioneering cost is already there for YouTube.
They've already trained people you could do that
with a premium account.
Twitter spaces or Twitter live stream,
way more difficult,
especially if you stream longer than an hour.
Someone might be able to lock in for an hour,
but they sure as hell ain't gonna lock in
for over an hour when it comes to live streaming they'd want to be able to use their twitter account
right so i think that's a huge downside if they could make it live streaming here's the fix right
live stream you could reduce the window and you could still use twitter just like spaces
i think people would live stream more that would be be my guess. I think that's an easy, easy enough feature to fix.
It's not easy.
Like that one's easy on a platform that's, you know, from 2006 and they're still always
like updating the platform and updating the software.
But I think that would be something they should do right away.
So people, if they want people live stream more, they should be fixing the live stream.
It seems to be getting better, but it's just way too slow.
I didn't know, by the way, Penny, that the guy the guy the spaces guy left i don't even know when that happened but man i like audio is such an important thing especially when you can communicate
back and forth to people on audio like there are some huge creators i bet that would come over to
this platform if they even knew about Twitter Spaces, really, as another possible revenue stream or just another possible place.
You can get callers.
There's a lot of, I don't know, it just seems like a really cool place to host an audio space for now and get people to interact with you one by one or one to many, but communicate back and forth.
It's such a critical
piece that a lot of platforms don't have you gotta either be selling something or selling
subscriptions or it's just not profitable yet if you host big news spaces and you got a crypto
sponsor you could definitely make some bucks right right? Uh, other than that though, it's really hard.
Cause for me it's like, okay, I'm most of the time I want to stay as far away from crypto
as I can.
So I'm going to avoid that, but how else?
Okay.
So I'll sell $3 subscriptions and I have to do after space that subscriber only.
And you get a few subscribers from that.
Like I've made decent money from that, but the dollar per hour is really low they need somehow to open up ads in spaces
get spaces host paid that you know without having to find their own crypto sponsors that's my two cents
yeah there's also no there's also no hub where you can go and find or apply for sponsors right
like i've been doing beehive for my newsletters and there's literally a whole marketplace you
can go and apply or there are creators who actually just reach out to you through the platform
saying hey do you want to advertise this on your newsletter we don't even have anything like that
and you know the creator economy that was supposed to come out of all of this, you know, it happened for a little bit. And like every other
feature on X, I feel like it's just so half-assed. They start something, they produce like the first
version of it, and then boom, like no other mention of it. Nobody's working on it. They
move on to another chapter.'s just really uh frustrating sometimes
yeah i i do think that also maybe it's a maybe it's because of all this but there's a bit of a
cap on spaces and how big you can regularly have them and maybe that's partially you know size of
the platform how many people know about spaces are using them. But like, for example, on the trading side, I'm pretty sure Wolf hosts every single day the biggest live trading space in the world.
And we cap out, I mean, typically at around 1500 concurrent in that space every morning.
And if it's a big day, right, and there's maybe some earnings or there's an FOMC meeting
or something like that, like you can go up.
I mean, we've had up to, I would say, decently regularly on huge events like NVIDIA earnings,
somewhere between 4,000 to 7,000 people, but it's not sustainable, right?
You're having them for maybe an hour or two.
And so I look at it and like on a live stream one on twitter the live streams are very confusing
because I have no idea what they're counting as a view and it's very different than spaces where
the person actually has to click in and you know view the space and on live streams I think they
just scroll past on the timeline and they consider it a view and so I did that's a little bit harder
to tell right there YouTube you know there's a lot of people that live stream stock market content and
they get significantly more views on a daily basis.
And I also don't know exactly if all of them are making money off of it or exactly how
that works.
But, you know, there's clearly less of a cap.
And so that's something I was curious to get your guys' thoughts on is like, how can
they break through?
I mean, we've been doing spaces now since they started.
It's been four years.
Um, and there's still this cap there clearly.
Well, they need to do work to promote it on the timeline, right?
Like, like I said, if it was easy to clip highlights from a space, you could make celebrities
out of spaces, speakers and hosts, right?
Like it needs to go as like short clip digestible on the timeline with a
link that says it came in a live host, a live hosted space by Wolf. And like, you guys should
get in and listen to these live hosted spaces. Cause you're missing out on cool content or like,
Hey, this is the biggest, uh, live trading space on X. Like you should like, they need to be
promoting the fact that there is
unique content happening here and using the timeline to do it is my point of view, because
people are sick of seeing the same thing over and over again on the timeline. And look, there's like,
there's this better stuff, but if you just post a normal, like I'm starting my space posts and
that's it. Like if someone isn't already a
spaces fan, it's not easy to find your way into it. Like people don't like the site doesn't make
an effort to funnel people to spaces. And I think that's a shame. Uh, and I think that, yeah,
reusing spaces content would be a big part of it. And just, uh, highlighting what's cool. Like when something is
happening, when a space is getting a ton of reactions or like people are staying in longer
than normal or like that should get pumped on the timeline, right? It should be auto taking clips of
that space real time. Grok should be doing that and advertising it. Like it's a news channel.
Like this is something cool that's happening in spaces
right now. Uh, I think that that would break through the cap. And I think that the algorithms
at Twitch and YouTube, like they're specifically designed to highlight that stuff, right? So that's
why someone at Twitch who's streaming something like that is going to not see that cap, right?
Like they're going to notice in the backend that people are sticking around and watching the stream.
They're going to notice on the back end
that people are interacting more than normal
and they're going to pump that.
But there's just no element of that happening in spaces
as far as I can tell.
Yeah, and I think education, sorry,
who was going first?
Did you want to go first?
Yeah, you guys can go.
By the way, just a heads up,
I have to jump here in like two minutes,
a little bit early today
because I have to get over to the other show, but we'll do the two other comments. Whoever was going first there, go for it.
I was just going to say, if you've been vibing here for longer than five minutes, then you obviously like what's going on. So please do like and repost the space because some good conversations going on here. That's all.
Thanks, Poi. You're always awesome with that. What I was going to say is I think education
is a big factor here. I think some of the, not some of the, actually all of the official X accounts
are absolutely underutilized. There's Spaces account, there's a live account, there's a
premium account. There's so many different accounts for each feature. None of them ever
posted a tutorial or ever posted something
promoting like, hey, join more X spaces. Hey, this is how you live stream on X. Premium features,
every time there is a premium feature, post about it, send tutorials out so people know.
Because even when, remember when live streams first started becoming a thing, most people were
like, I don't even know how to live stream.
I don't even know how to host spaces.
How do I do this?
How do I do that?
That's one of the main questions that you get from people who, you know, who come to your spaces or who come to your live streams, right?
But I feel like the official accounts do not do any kind of justice to any of these features.
any kind of justice to any of these features.
I think those accounts should be posting more
about how we can utilize the features within the platform.
And I think more people would learn from that
and actually go and use those features.
But yeah, it's terrible.
Yeah, definitely.
I think I'll close it off with this.
I mean, I'm still onboarding people to Spaces
every single week.
I have, especially in like this traditional finance,
where like I'm about to jump over here
and I encourage everyone to come over, Wolf Trading.
We're going to do a space with Direction.
It's one of the biggest firms I've ever worked with,
60 billion in assets under management.
And their leadership team, their CEO,
was going to do the first space with me last week.
And he messaged me the day before and he goes,
okay, how do I call into the show?
And I was like, you don't.
It's natively inside of X.
And he goes, I don't even have X on my phone.
And I was like, okay, let's solve this.
So I got on a Zoom call with him and I'm like,
here's how we download X.
Here's how we log into the account.
Now I'm going to open up a test space.
You're going to join the space.
You're going to request to speak. Like I did that again yesterday for another member of their team. Like
I'm still onboarding people into these. People don't even know that these things exist. So I
agree with you. There's certainly more that could be done. Like at least a YouTube they've heard of,
to be honest, they might not even know how to join a YouTube stream, but they've heard of it.
And so it's a lot of education still to be done. So a really, really fun conversation here today,
to be honest, the hour flew by as always appreciate everyone that joined in i hope you
had some good takeaways from this or maybe you're thinking similar stuff to us i'm going to jump
over now onto this other space wolf trading come join us there's about five six hundred people in
there right now going to talk about a couple different specific areas of the market and big
thank you to penny lucas ani Poet for being up here.
Penny, any final comment
before I close this one out?
Working on editing my interview with Casey.
If you like to hear about entrepreneurs,
if you like to hear about Made in America,
if you like long form interviews
and you don't already follow me,
do because that's my next big piece
of content coming out.
Beautiful. Thanks so much, everybody. Appreciate you all for being on today.
Should be good to go. Actually, let me check on this. Next week might be tough. We'll see. I have
a flight at 1.30 p.m. Eastern. Our space is typically at 12. I'll have to figure that one
out a little bit on the fly. So we might skip next week. But regardless, we'll keep having
these conversations and we'll keep bringing people into the spaces. Take care, everybody.
Talk to you all soon. Thank you.
