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THORChain Community Lounge with Unstoppable
Recorded: Dec. 13, 2025 Duration: 2:05:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, key players from Unstoppable and ThorChain explored the exciting developments in decentralized finance, including the launch of 4Chain as a pioneering DEX, the introduction of the T-C-Y token, and the ongoing integration of ThorChain into Unstoppable Wallet. The conversation also touched on the importance of compliance and the challenges posed by regulatory scrutiny, emphasizing the need for innovative solutions in the evolving crypto landscape.
Full Transcription
yeah right mic check i believe i sound okay given the yeehaw i love that excellent welcome everybody
welcome welcome happy saturday or early sunday think, from wherever you are in the world.
Happy to have you. I see Kenton. Very good, guys. Please share the space, whether you're listening live or the recording.
We're going to have a good one today. We're going to have the Unstoppable guys.
Lots of people have shown interest in them, so we're going to talk to them and figure everything out regarding Unstoppable.
We did have a space with them a while ago.
I want to say it was like two months ago or something.
Maybe I'm off on that.
But a really cool team.
So I'm really excited just to have a frank conversation with them.
But with that being said, guys, let's get this intro going.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome one and all.
4Chain is the first DEX to swap real Bitcoin.
You can use every Bitcoin wallet in the world and you don't have to connect it to a website.
This is the same with Ethereum, XRP, BNB, Tron, Doge, and many more.
Eventually, guys, you'll be able to swap any token from any wallet.
4Chain is turning into a full layer one where apps can be built on top of it.
The new app layer unlocks lending perks, Bitcoin-backed stablecoins, token launchpad,
NFTs, prediction markets, and much more.
ThorChain isn't just a decentralized exchange.
It's becoming the protocol of pure, uncensorable liquidity.
Swapping on ThorChain is really easy.
It's permissionless.
There's no KYC, and anyone in the world can use it.
To use ThorChain, go to ThorChain.org, click on Swap.
New features and functionality are also being added to the site
over the next few months.
If you encounter any bugs whatsoever or need any help,
there's an email that you can use on the website as well.
ThorChain's token is called RUNE, and that's spelled R-U-N-E.
You don't need to buy or hold RUNE to place a swap on ThorChain,
but the fees are deducted from your swap are used to buy Rune.
And this is the Rune that goes to liquidity pools and nodes.
There are no block rewards on ThorChain.
100% of the yield is real, and ThorChain is deflationary with 5% of all revenue being burned.
If you hold Rune on a centralized exchange, you should withdraw it into self-custody immediately
because these tokens can be used to short sell Rune
and drive the price down on ourselves.
And once in self-custody, you guys,
look into bonding your Rune to a node to earn some yield.
There's a really good interface to use that.
It's runebond.com.
It's a very easy process.
All you have to do is select the node,
request a whitelist,
and then once approved you can bond
your rune additionally we are looking for new node operators and if you know of anyone or if you have
technical skill if you want to give it a shot we have lots of tutorials lots of guides to help get
you up to speed rune tard is someone who is for free training node operators, essentially his own competition.
And that may not make sense at first glance,
but the more unique node operators we have,
the more decentralized ThorChain is.
So please, if you know somebody
or if you are interested in trying it,
we will help you out.
And I will personally try to get you some BPs
to get you churned in once you are ready.
ThorChain has another token called T-C-Y.
This token is like a preferred stock
where 10% of the protocol's revenue
goes to these token holders.
If you deposited crypto into Sabres
or took out a loan on ThorChain,
please claim your TCY token
so you can start collecting this yield.
And anyone can buy the TC token
on ThorChain.org as well.
There's a ThorChain community discord and telegram.
You can join and learn all about ThorChain,
make all kinds of friends. To find the links, go to at Thor community. That's at
T-H-O-R community account on X. Guys, this space is always geared towards anyone in your ThorChain
journey, whether you are a veteran or brand spanking new, there will be something for you.
And it is an open space. We take any and all questions from the community.
With that being said, guys, my name's Denny.
My other account is Patriot Sounds.
I've been an educator, content creator on ThorChain for about five years now.
I love ThorChain, you guys,
and I'm hoping you love ThorChain too.
With that being said, I'm going to kick it to Kenton.
Good morning, Kenton. How you doing?
Morning, Patriot. Good. Yeah.
I'm actually trying to get
unstoppable up as a speaker and i can't i don't know tc in turn if you can help unstoppable if
you requested but i can't i can't do it can you see patriot can you get them up um i'll give it
a shot yeah that'd be embarrassing because technically they would be stoppable, right? So we can't have that.
I don't know.
Unstoppable.
Let's see some technical difficulties.
I'll let you guys play with it a bit.
Yeah, maybe just give you a little update.
I'm trying to get CoinGecko and CoinMarketCap stuff updated.
It's just slow.
I asked them to do something,
they say they've done it and they haven't.
So like a few times,
like just to change one thing,
it's taking a lot of back and forth,
but slowly getting that stuff done.
And maybe another little update about the DEX aggregator on the front end.
Treasury has decided no other routes just
store chain and maya so um that's what we're gonna do here um yeah uh yeah that was their
decision not mine um and yeah let me try and get Unstoppable here going.
Any luck, guys?
I'm in. Can you hear me?
Oh, there you go. Hi, I beg. Yep. Good.
Hey.
So, yeah, I mean, it's a quick intro for you.
So Unstoppable, the devs behind Unstoppable are the devs who are doing the Thor chain front end and um and the aggregator behind
it and so um i've been working with uh these guys now for i guess since august and um um
maybe it's good i think if we just do a little kind of bit more history background and unstoppable
and you know what how they found thor chain how they got involved before
we get more into what they're doing for thor chain but um yeah subable if you could just maybe give
us a quick intro about yourself what you guys are doing uh how you came across thor chain how you
got involved with or chain in the beginning and and how we met and i think that'd be a good intro for everybody all right uh so yeah about
unstoppable uh we are a wallet uh well most of the people uh i guess who know us know us as a wallet
but at the same time we actually uh did a lot of stuff over the years, but wallet is something
that we have been working on continuously.
We are building a platform for parking wealth privately, securely, conveniently, for a platform
to access markets like crypto markets and so on. So wallet is a work in progress for us. And we have been
building it since 2017, maybe early 2018. I really don't remember right now, but it's around that
time. And it's been a fully open source wallet. We have built a lot of stuff along the way,
like a lot of libraries that are currently being used by a lot of projects.
So in various domains.
So yeah, I mean, when we started working with the wallet, I mean, the very first thing that actually kind of we were amazed about when we discovered crypto was the concept of self-custody.
I mean, it seems kind of generic now and everyone used to it.
You kind of have an ability to self-custody your funds and no one is really excited about it.
to self-custody your funds
and no one is really excited about it.
But when you actually,
like when we saw it for the first time,
when the wallets were not that,
where self-custody wallets
were not as popular as mainstream,
I would say,
it was really an amazing thing for us.
And since that moment,
and that was maybe early 2017, we always wanted to actually build...
When we understood what this technology blockchain enables, we always wanted to build a DEX,
a DEX, a decentralized exchange.
a decentralized exchange.
And we actually did back in 2018.
We built an AVM DEX, prior Uniswap.
It worked.
We built along with some other company
where we had a stake and that DEX worked for a bit,
but it never really grew.
After that, we tried building, it was EBM DEX.
After that, we tried building atomic swap based DEX.
But kind of after we got a prototype, we decided not to pursue it
because we realized that it would not work on mobile.
And mobile was always our thing.
We always tried to build things on mobile or at least mobile first because that's the
gadget people always carry with themselves.
So back then when we tried building atomic swap decks we realized
that okay it won't work on mobile so we kind of dropped it so dexes were always was like for the
last maybe uh well since the very beginning we always were waiting for someone uh for some really
good text especially a cross chain one and uh Torchain was the first one that actually delivered,
where we actually saw that it not only works, but it actually works quite well.
It has... well, it's decentralized,
with its own governance mechanisms and so on.
So it showed some resilience over the years.
It went through a number of, I would say, hard times.
So, yeah, we are like fans, I would say, right?
So that's how we kind of, I mean, we knew TorChain from the very beginning.
So when an opportunity came up to kind of to collaborate or do something for TorChain,
we, yeah, we felt like it might be something we want to do.
And that's how the relationship started.
But in general, what we are trying to do,
we are open source devs and we are building freedom tech.
With a focus on privacy, we try not to take compromises. So, I mean, there are some things we don't build because we simply feel that
they are more about speculation rather than freedom tech. And I don't know, like perps,
perp taxes. So these are the things. But in general, we did a lot of stuff over the years and mainly full-time working on Unstoppable Wallet these days.
That's great. So I'm curious if, so Unstoppable, you just integrated DoorChain into your wallet this year, right?
But DoorChain's been around for four years. What took you guys so long? Why didn't you do it sooner? Why did you do it this year right the door chain has been around for four years uh what what took you guys so long why
why didn't you do it sooner why did you do it this year uh well uh we we started integrating dexes
like maybe first two years ago i mean that, there were basically like other priorities,
like getting the chains, all the chains we want to have included in the app.
And in our case, we are, in many cases, we are trying to,
I mean, in many cases, we have to create a library ourselves.
And there are many reasons for that.
In some cases, I mean, because we are in
a native wallet, basically, a native mobile wallet. So the crypto libraries are not as
as popular in mobile tech stack as, let's say, in JavaScript tech stack, web tech stack. So
stack as let's say in in javascript tech stack web tech stack so in many cases we have to create a
library ourselves not always but that's common so yeah it took us a while to get to a point where we
were comfortable with the number of blockchains our wallet supports so that was the first thing
the second thing we actually had to, well, we also
spent a considerable amount of time building security features that we have and well, some of
some of the features that we have we are kind of pioneered, like the Duris mode feature or anti
phishing protection. So there are lots of those things within the Unstoppable. We also I think were among the first ones who actually introduced universal like multi coin multi coin multi wallet app.
So you in our app you can have as many wallets as you as you want with unlimited number of coins in each of them.
Well not unlimited but any wallet can have any coins the app supports.
It's not like you create a separate wallet for a specific coin.
But so all of those things took us a while.
And about two years ago, we actually started like integrating DEXs.
And I think we, I mean, we might have started on Torchain about a year ago.
So it took us maybe a few months to get it in place.
But I think it's live maybe for 6-7 months right now.
Yeah, I can't really say for sure, you know, what was it.
It was just not, not, yeah, we prioritized it when we felt that it was the right time, basically.
And the decision depended, I guess, on several factors like the libraries, the state of the application itself, and so on.
When did you guys first learn about Torchain? Have you known about it for a longer period of time?
Yeah, I think, well, maybe not four years, but two and a half.
I mean, a while ago.
So, you know, I actually heard about it before there were like any interfaces around.
I mean, things like TorSwap or Leodex.
I'm not sure what others there were.
Like those interfaces,
we learned about them fairly recently.
I would say like, I don't know, maybe seven, six, seven,
no, less than a year, I would suppose.
Okay, but the protocol you've known about longer.
Yeah, the protocol, but you see,
when you are a wallet,
you, you, I mean, Torchain was not the first cross chain protocol we heard about. You,
you, if you remember like, DeFi summer, like 2022 around maybe. So there were a number
like Polkadot was some promising something. ICP was promising something. So a number of Polkadot was promising something ICP was promising
something so a number of them
and we know
I mean we hear about all of them
right so
what we typically started
like doing we were not able
to integrate all of them and
sometimes people
would submit pull like
issues on the GitHub and ask,
okay, integrate this and that, right?
And we had to choose.
So when it comes to cross-chain blockchain,
we actually wanted to wait to see which one would go beyond the promises
and actually deliver something.
And so that's how we saw the third chain.
That's how it stood out to us, you know, because there were a number of blockchains promising like cross chain swaps, but ultimately, well, the one that currently rules, I would say,
truly the centralized one.
Okay, cool. Makes sense.
I'm not
criticizing you guys.
I'm genuinely curious
on your
path to ThorChain because it's
from the
marketing point of view, how do people
find out about ThorChain?
You learn about it and
decide to move forward.
And, you know, what can we do as a community to, you know,
find 10 more unstoppable wallets, right.
And get more integrations.
And, you know, what are you,
what are you guys looking for type things?
So that's kind of was a reason I was asking just,
just your journey there.
But it, but that all makes perfect
sense you know and I did you know yeah so you mentioned the your wallet is it's
open source you created the live a lot of these libraries you created yourself
are those libraries open source too yeah everything about the wallet is open
source I mean we actually actually wanted to try something
drastically different with Unstoppable. Not everything we do is actually done this way.
For example, even when we worked on the Torchain interface, we didn't do it this way because, well, it's more up to you guys to
Torchain governance, how you want to publish libraries, how you want to keep them as open
source and so on.
But when it comes to the wallet, it's like since 2007, I mean, since the very first code
that was pushed to the wallet, it was fully public and available.
And moreover, we actually keep the entire workflow process of the wallet production
public. So if someone like, well, curious, they can actually go and see how the wallet
evolved over the years, what kind of discussions were there.
So we all the issues, tickets, feature requests were actually are also public.
And to give you...
I mean, why is that interesting and important?
Most of the bigger and mainstream blockchain projects are done this way.
Like for example, Bitcoin, that's how it's developed as well.
It's fully, everything starts with proposal and so on and so on. So you can actually see that
everything that's going on, it's there on the GitHub. So I mean, practically speaking, I don't
think that there is anything that's happening behind the doors there, right? So that's the type of approach we took
the wallet. And mainly because wallet is a device that's supposed to keep the funds and safely,
right? So it was important for us to make sure that first of all, we are keeping the process open so that anyone can review it and like improve it or help us find the box
whenever they are. And that's one. And secondly, some of the core libraries that we used were also like done this way and we wanted to kind of keep the same approach basically.
But at the same time, that's the wallet part, but at the same time we do work on different things.
Like we built a number of taxes. In some cases it was built for someone that we know. In other cases, we sometimes
want to make sure we have a good understanding of a particular tech stack. Like, well, for
example, building a DEX on Ethereum and building a DEX on Solana is a completely different
processes. Although a DEX may work in a similar way,
but the actual building process will be completely different
starting from the programming language and things you can do on that blockchain
and you cannot do on that blockchain.
And those things are mostly not published.
Because either they are published on some different repositories which do
not belong to us or which we do not control solely. But when it comes to wallet, it's a fully
open source project basically.
Has anyone, do you know if anyone's forked it?
Oh yeah, yeah. I think it's the repository, it's evolved over the years.
So, I mean, we had a few thousand forks on the previous versions.
And the previous version, I think we archived like a few years ago so and maybe there are over a thousand forks on this uh like
on the current version now usually you know where it's uh we see people forking when there is a
blockchain that really wants to have its own wallet or a project and uh yeah they they either
ask us to add the coin to the wallet or approach us to launch a wallet for them.
But yeah, we typically advise just fork our wallet, redo the design and use it.
We actually even had a centralized exchange once which forked our wallet, adapted some of their branding, and yeah,
and ended up with their own non-custodial wallet.
So you're happy that people fork the code,
do what they want with it, maybe contribute to the code?
I mean, it really depends on what you are after.
If you are, let's say, a type of project where...
I mean, most of the open source projects, or at least most of the projects which use a lot of the open source code,
in many cases, they are required to stay open source.
In many cases, not necessarily, but usually it's common.
Yeah.
And also there is a case of business model.
You know, for some, if a project, let's say, is like one of the, if they are eyeing one one of the exits from the project they see as someone
buying them then being open source is not a good thing i mean why would someone buy you if they can
just fork you right so in our case we were pretty sure that no one would want to buy us because
no one would want to buy us, simply because, well, how to say it, our vision typically is aligned with things like censorship resistance, access to borderless markets and typically aligned with things which are not in alignment with,
let's say, Web2 traditional fintech. And Web2 traditional fintech is typically the type of
company that can potentially approach you to buy your crypto products so that they can enter that market. You know, we actually had some really large fintechs, like brands that everyone probably
knows about, approach us and like, yeah, like, yeah, discuss some things basically.
But things we can provide typically is not some things they want.
That makes sense.
Let's touch on your open border permissionless.
You guys are big fans, or well, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I think you guys are fans of Monero and Zcash and privacy coins. Is Unstoppable one of the main wallets to use for Monero?
Yeah, one of the main, not the only one.
Monero has a number of, well, I would say, I think two, three.
There are two, three main players which support both Monero and Zcash,
and we are one of them.
Typically, we try to be, if there is a privacy thing that can, if there is a feature or a
blockchain that we can add that would kind of extend the privacy capabilities of the unstoppable wallet, we
try to be among the first ones to integrate it. With Monero specifically, we were not
the first, we actually came in last among the wallets that support it. But I would say
it's an exception because we are a bit overestimated at the beginning the amount of work it would take us.
We kind of thought that it would be like a thing that would take us six months.
And that was based on the experience we had with Bitcoin initially and later Zcash.
Zcash was faster, although we were not
the ones who actually
built it from scratch. So we actually
took a library that was
already there and
built the integration around it.
there were some challenges, both
in Bitcoin and that.
When we approached Monero,
we thought, okay, we need six months, at least
two, three full stack engineers working on it full time.
So that's why it was like it kept postponed until and we kept postponing it until we realized
that there are some core users we have in our user base.
I mean, people we kind of know personally because we kind of kept in touch over the years.
And we came to a point where they were actually like demanding us to edit.
So that's how we added Monero.
But in general, yeah, right now I would say Unstoppable is probably the most sophisticated, technically sophisticated.
And that may not be visible on the surface because UI simplifies a lot of things.
But when it comes to the capabilities of that blockchain,
so Unstoppable is one of the most sophisticated wallets for Bitcoin,, Monero and Zcash.
Yeah, so pretty much everything that those specific blockchains offer and things that
are possible to do on those blockchains right now available on the Unstoppable Wallet.
And to give you an example, like because many people do not see what blockchain can do other than sending and receiving, especially when it comes to Bitcoin.
For example, on the Bitcoin blockchain, there is a possibility to send someone Bitcoin, but at the same time indicate when that Bitcoin can be spent.
You can send someone Bitcoin and include part of that transaction that this person is not able to spend them for the next two, three months.
Or that can, that period can be actually larger than that.
So that's possible to do in Unstoppable.
Or you can actually select which exactly UTXO would be used when you're sending your Bitcoin.
So your Bitcoin balance comprised of a lot of small bits of amounts that...
not necessarily small, but a lot of amounts that you received over the years.
So throughout your transaction history, basically.
So when you can actually specify, okay, for that specific transaction,
I want to use that
amount that they received like a few years ago, and so on. And
there is a way, for example, to resend the transaction with a
higher fee or to cancel transaction as soon as it remains
pending. So things like that, basically.
Cool. Yeah, I think with if you when you send individual UTXOs, that helps preserve some privacy, right?
Is that the reasoning for doing it?
Yeah, yeah. And an example can be, let's say you are like buying a car from someone, someone you know,
or at least someone whom you have to meet physically.
And you both agree that you would pay in Bitcoin.
And let's assume that let's say you have like five Bitcoins on your balance. And you're about to send that person like 0.3 worth of Bitcoin as a payment.
So what you don't want to do is, let's say, expose that you have...
And your balance might be comprised of two UTXOs, which is like four Bitcoins and one Bitcoin.
What you don't want to do is use that four Bitcoins UTXOs.
You'd rather use that one.
And in that specific case, the recipient would only know that you have one Bitcoin. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to oversimplify the whole thing. But essentially, yeah, ability to control UTXOs gives you some ways to not to include specific parts of your balance in the transactions where you don't want them to be included.
Yep, got it. So another feature of Unstoppable. So like, you know, we're talking about permissionless and privacy, which I think we all agree is good.
But you guys also have another feature where you can do wallet blacklisting.
Yeah.
Explain that.
If you guys believe in privacy
and borderless and permissionless,
why would you have a wallet blacklisting feature
on the wallet?
Can you walk us through that?
So, I mean, I'll give you some context.
Where did this came up and how it's actually used on the wallet?
It's not enforced, but it's something to help users.
So at one point in the past, we had a problem with one of the smart contracts that we built.
It basically had a bug.
It was not our bug. It was a bug of Tether, because Tether is one of the oldest smart contracts,
and it actually came out before the year C20 standard was standardized.
So, and it has one, yeah, it has one minor issue with its send function.
So the smart contract we built worked fine for all those stables other than USDT.
In some specific cases, USDT coins could get stuck there.
So we used that smart contract and some of the people for whom we built it used it as
well. And at one point, there was like a sum that got stuck on that smart contract. And
Tether has this like procedure in place where they can help you
recover the funds stuck on the smart contract if you can. Well, it's not a rule, but typically it
should be if it's due to a buck, then they can help you really fast basically. Well, not like
instantly, but within the scope of two couple of months uh for for a 10 fee so if you
have like 100 000 stuck on a smart contract they'll help you recover it uh you'll go through
the whole like protocol of recovery protocol with them where you have to prove that you are an owner
of the smart contract you are the one who built it you are the owner of that wallet that sent and
explain the the problem and so on and then they like burn those funds and kind of mint that amount for you to your address.
So we went through that process at some point.
And what we later noticed that all the wallets that were interacting with the smart contract,
if they deposited funds to Binance or withdrew funds from Binance to that wallet,
Binance would start freezing your account and ask you to do like, send you some questions,
ask you to do KYC, like additional KYC stuff, although your account was already KYC.
So and that was like, okay, why did, so we started researching that, okay, why that would, why that keeps happening. And that's when we realized that, okay, after the Tether takes you through that recovery process, they add that smart contract's address to a blacklist, to their, a blacklist in their smart contract.
And not just that address, like in some cases they can, I guess, add some hacked hackers addresses there or so on.
So whatever is the purpose of that specific feature of the Tether smart contact, I guess it's so that it becomes a signal
because everyone can read that information from a smart contract
and they know that, okay, you should not be interacting
with that smart contract basically.
So everyone who were involved in the building process
and there were a number of people realized,
okay, now it's a problem, right?
You kind of, your Binance would unfreeze your account, but at the same time, you don't want to deal with that.
Like, it's a distraction that takes you a few days and so on.
And then we understood that, okay, apparently those USDT or other USDC and other stablecoins, they have these compliance mechanisms, like embedded into the smart contract itself.
kind of know that whenever I'm trying to send someone funds from my wallet, if that address
is in that is sort of marked, blacklisted basically. And if so, I can then make up my mind whether I
still want to proceed or not, you know. And why they're important is that someone can unknowingly
send someone and that may be a valid transaction.
Because you don't necessarily know everyone about everything about someone you're transacting with, especially the address you are interacting with.
Someone gives you, okay, send me to that address like that amount if you have to send that
person the sum.
So you would go and send it without thinking like too much about it, right?
send it without thinking like too much about it, right?
So, but after doing that, you would, you may end up having problems on your centralized
exchange and so on.
All of them would be, or most of them would be freezing your account and may even ask
you why did you interact with that address.
So after that, we kind of realized that it's important security feature for our users, because we don't want our users to be kind of, to unknowingly have to go and, yeah, like figure out why their account was freezed on Binance, Coinbase or some other exchange.
So we thought, okay, that can be a good feature and that's why we added it. And right now, whenever you send someone some funds, a wallet can potentially check if that
address is on any specific blacklist or like Tether's USDC's blacklist, if it's kind of marked by chain analysis or if it's on DOJ's sanctioned list and so on, right?
And if so, you would know about it in advance.
We would not stop you from sending it, but we would tell you,
look, these are the problems with that address.
Do you still want to interact with it so that you know? At same time there is a tool that can actually let if let's say you are
expecting a payment from someone and you want to check that sender's address in advance you can
request them like ask them for the address they will be sending you from which they'll be sending
you the payment and then take that address and manually check it in phone settings if it has any issues. So yeah, that's basically
why we build it. It's for protection to make sure that users are protected.
That's great, man. I think it's a great idea. And you're the first wallet I've heard do this.
I've tried all kinds of different wallets.
I've never seen this feature anywhere else.
Yeah.
I think we were one of the very first ones to have it.
That's cool.
Part of me wonders if I've been subject to that,
because having to submit KYC on various sexes,
I'm like, God, why do i have to keep doing this i wonder
if it's the same when if i'm a victim of that um well that's cool man and that's actually you know
we've talked you know we'll get to our to the thor chain front end uh soon here guys but i want to
give you know unstoppable a chance to talk about their wallet but it is this has come up about you
know having a blacklist on the thought chain front end is um
you know we're doing it to protect uh the network protect the protocol so you know we can show that
on the front end we're doing we're trying you know to do something and that's to try to you know
isolate liability from the from the protocol and then and everyone else running the front end so
um but before we get into the torch
chain front end uh patriot did you want to do any questions for unstoppable that's some more
about their wallet and their their history their past well you know the thing i remember kenton
we you know we did a space with them earlier um this is a little while ago and what i remember
most from that space is that the answers they gave to questions were not only good but the the good the good answers were unprompted right so when you would ask a question about you
know your ethos what you want to do uh they really nailed it on the head right and i think that's
kind of why the reason that they i don't want to speak for you but why they were so impressive
right um and uh real quick i want to shout out to the audience. If anyone has any specific questions for unstoppable, um, please send them to the, uh, Thor chain telegram and I will ask
them for you. Um, but you know, for, in terms of your wallet itself, you know, I remember you
talking about your ethos, permissionless, you know, open market freedom, basically your freedom
maximalists, right? Um, I actually have a little have kind of a side question. Um, cause I really do like your wall. I really like your team. Um, and again,
real quick before I do that. Um, I don't know who, I don't want to ask if you're the DD,
the daddy bio account, but I just want to give a shout out every time someone has said there's a
problem with the STO or had a question or there was a concern.
The team's been very responsive from the front end. So I just wanted to say that as someone who gets these things all the time. So thank you to you and your team for doing that.
The question I have for you is, you know, yes, freedom, maximalists, we want to achieve a world
that we emancipate ourselves in tyranny.
I'm kind of curious on your opinion.
How do you think we're doing on that?
Right?
Do you think at this point, given the state of where crypto is, are we going to win?
Are we likely going to succeed?
Or do you think we need to be more aggressive?
There is a lot more to be done.
How do you model out the future in terms
of the success
or non-success of our ultimate ambition? Well, I, we are very optimistic. And
the reason is that like, you know, back in 2017-ish, I think, I mean, the issues we had back then were really like,
like really basic, you know, like for example,
well, it's still this specific issues a lot of people,
they face, but at least if you are in that crypto thing,
you are not like really experiencing that.
But back then, you know, things like the problems we had, like,
okay, how to buy like a crypto, you know, because you would know that there is just like a couple
of exchanges and they would work in specific places, you know, and if you are not one of those
places, you simply cannot buy them. Or so basically the problems we had over the years we saw them like being fixed one by one
and i would say in my opinion the biggest uh at least the most uh impressive achievement we have
seen over the last five years i would say say maybe, is the Torchain itself.
Yeah, it's the fact that you can have one crypto coin in your non-custodial wallet
and go buy another one, swap for it.
And by doing that, you would not involve any centralized intermediary.
So it would happen in a trustless manner. So to answer your question,
so over the course of, let's say, last seven years, we've seen like improvements, improvements,
improvements, and we came to a point where like the most success, the biggest ETF in the world is the crypto one.
So Bitcoin.
And I think they have saw the news today or like yesterday that the amount that volume
of stable coins transactions in, I don't know, in this year is like three times higher than that of Visa and so on.
So I think we are doing really well.
And I think we are also, we are no longer in a phase where there is a question mark
whether the crypto would be accepted or not.
So it's kind of, yeah, it's accepted.
So right now we are at this stage,
whether it will be accepted with the privacy things that we want in them
or with some kind of compromises.
So we are also yet to see how regulators or at least establishment, let me say,
the financial establishment would accept DEXs, right?
So in general, I'm very optimistic.
Things are much better than they used to be, yeah?
yeah it doesn't mean that there will be no more challenges but uh yeah things are definitely
It doesn't mean that there will be no more challenges,
better now than they were in 2017. i mean at the same time of course like there are there were a
lot of uh people back then in in in crypto like ecosystem which were very idealistic.
I mean, price was important always, but it may not have been the main factor
which kept people motivated.
Despite the price, let's say, going down and staying down for a long time,
you would still see a lot of people passionately working on in that space so
this kind of thing i i don't want to say disappeared maybe it got kind of got saturated
because there are a lot more people a lot more noise now but uh in general i think i still think
that uh like crypto evolved in a good way.
There are a lot of things
I may not like or someone else
may not like, but at the same time,
there are a lot of things
that I do like about it.
I think that's great.
Yeah, I'm getting cautiously optimistic
as well.
I'm very leery, though.
I don't want to get in a false sense
of security. I believe that the
current way that the world is, is kind of happenstance as in we currently have a small
reprieve, but I believe firmly that some of the worst actors in the world do not yet fully
understand the power of what we're building here. The decentralized access, liquidity,
the financial primitives, and the removal of third
of these third parties these needless third parties um and when they get to that point
when they figure that out i think the knives will be out but again don't want to be a downer we just
got to keep building keep that in the back of our minds and keep shipping um go ahead kenton do you
have something you want to say actually well i'm going to counter you, Paige. I think they do know. And I think the crypto movement has accelerated their agenda. And they're trying to clamp down before it gets too out of control. So have you guys heard of CARF, the crypto asset reporting framework or something?
Like it's, you know, it's the next piece of Orwellian legislation
is like going to be adopted here by like over 100 different countries.
Like it's coming.
And basically remember before FTX collapsed,
Sam Bankman-Fried was running around Congress
trying to get like some legislation passed
that would like effectively,
you know, cut off DeFi at the knees and basically benefit centralized platforms like FTX.
And then, you know, maybe CZ saw what was going on and then purposely tried to, you know, destroy, uh, SBF, you know, I don't
know how to check out, but that was, um, anyway, that legislation, remember that Eric Voorhees had
that interview with SBF about it. And like the legislation was pretty bad, but it never went
through, never got approved. But I think CARF is kind of like the next iteration and um and it's worldwide and um the gist is they want to
go after reporting for taxes right that's how they're justifying it with each other and to
everyone else and all these countries are looking at adopting it even cayman islands and so um and
it's got like because cayman's become one of the bigger hubs for crypto foundations,
like crypto projects will set up a foundation in Cayman.
And so everyone in Cayman is a bit wondering what the hell is going to go on with this.
How is it going to be enforced?
What's going to be the result?
But the gist is reporting on crypto transactions.
And if you're a project or a front end or whatever, you might have to start complying with some of this stuff.
So, yeah, I'm not trying to be.
I'm not trying to be alarmist or whatever, but like, like, you know, it's two steps forward, one step back. Right. So I think what's going to happen with car, if we're going to find out who the truly decentralized project projects are
or not.
Cause the way I read it and understand it is it's like,
it's,
you know,
it comes down to control.
Like,
do you,
do you have the ability to control and do,
do things?
And so that's coming,
man.
I don't think,
I think they are aware and they do understand and they but the flip side is
i think they also understand that they can't stop it um and the best they can try to do is try to
regulate it or try and slow it down or trying to find other ways right but um this is the point
of decentralization is that there is no head to go after right it doesn't fit into their
um their like the legal system right there's no entity or person to go after so they can't
they still have to as as evil as they are they still have to operate within their existing
framework right so um and that's what what karf is going to try to do
So, and that's what CARF is going to try to do.
So, it's coming.
It's happening, man.
It's not, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and I'm glad you said that, right?
And I think they're behind the boat, obviously,
because to do something like that, it takes a while.
But I think it would just be smart practice for any project,
whether it's Unstoppable, Thorchain, My Protocol,
or anyone out there who's a builder,
just assume 100% competency from these people
and to continue to build like crazy.
Don't for a second get comfortable.
Don't stop until the job's done, right?
That's what we have to do.
That's our mandate, not to just ourselves, to each other.
So yeah, we do have a new speaker come up here
go ahead yeah i just want to add to it so it my understanding is the oecd that came up with
this and is like kind of passing it down and it's like no one voted for this right there's no
this is like a wef thing where it's like just some global, you know, regulatory body just comes up with this arbitrary
framework and is like, and passing it down to these countries and they're just voluntarily
adopting it. And it's going to become like the reason it kind of like came in, we'll go along
with it is because they're trying to play nice in the sandbox because they don't want to be
blacklisted. Right. And and when you this is how like
like the us for example weaponizes the dollar in the swift system you know if you're not playing
by these rules that's okay but now you can't access us dollars you can access swift right you get you
cut out from the banking system so um this is just a prime example of like the the bureaucracy just like uh running amok right
unaccountable so um but this is but this is how we fight it decentralization is how we fight it
right this is how we this is our revolution right how we fight back because you know voting doesn't
change any of this voting didn't even enact it It's just people so entrenched in the system are pushing this stuff through.
So my rant over.
Yeah, I'm going to go to the speaker.
Well, no, I'm glad you said that because, you know, as a public official myself, I've got a small peek behind the curtain and it's terrifying to me.
So, yeah, and we got to keep going, guys.
So I'm really glad you said that, Kenton.
We need to be reminded of this often because it's quite real. It's not some romantic
machination in our mind of good versus evil. The stakes are real. And what we need to do
is quite real. So absolutely. But anyway, yes, you are right. We have Partiziza. I'm
sorry if I don't say that correctly. Blockchain.
Welcome.
What do you got for us?
It's Partizio Blockchain.
By the way, hello, everyone.
We're fans of everyone here.
ThorChain, Rune, Unstoppable, Mocha, as a matter of fact.
We love the privacy space and we play in this space a lot.
We're about a privacy-focused public blockchain network,
and we natively integrate secure multi-party computation
with smart contracts to enable computations on
encrypted data without exposing the underlying inputs.
Particular to the side, I personally am a user of Unstoppable Wallet
and been a huge fan for a very long time and I think I want to resonate a little bit with
some of the things you guys said as far as you know whoever these oligarchs are and I think one
of the weapons that they have that we don't have is information. They have information and they have leverage in
terms of a huge war chest. Something that is very difficult to get if especially
if you have so much to do as far as numbers are concerned and hence the
reason why community is very important is very important for also for
for like minds to come together and build together but uh ultimately the reason why uh i stepped in
of course uh it's one of the reasons why it's because of the the the platforms that are on here
that we that we love and also we we want we wanted to ask what would be the criteria for example this is directed
to unstoppable what would be the criteria to uh for unstoppable to pick uh you know
like platforms to work with um an insight that you mentioned that i myself i'm not familiar
with is what you mentioned with regarding our blacklisted platforms having the ability to blacklist your wallet.
I do know that USDT can blacklist tokens,
but I didn't know that wallets could be blacklisted.
But that being said,
we feel maybe multi-party computation could be helpful
in areas where perhaps you need to do a bit of KYC
without necessarily sharing who
you are and hence why we decided to ask these questions.
Hope I didn't ramble too much there.
Are you muted, Unstoppable?
Yes, the question is for Unstoppable.
Actually, not for Unstoppable.
I would say everyone here since the point is to find ways to work together and use the best part of our tech and protect ourselves.
But primarily, just because Unstoppable mentioned something around KYC, tracking your wallet and blacklisting wallets,
I thought probably they'd be in the best position to answer the question. So where do you see something like multi-party computation, for example?
Do you think it is a feature to have, for example, on a wallet
where perhaps maybe certain situations here,
you just have to show some kyc but you don't want to share
which is kind of like part of what we do we do key management systems on those fronts as well
uh hey nice to meet hi uh so uh like first about the blacklisting um
Like first about the blacklisting. So basically Tether, they do not blacklist wallets. In a way, they cannot like, there is no way for them to blacklist, let's say, unstoppable wallet or like trust wallet or some other wallet. What I meant is they blacklist addresses, wallet addresses. So and in case of EVM, address is a wallet.
So I guess that's like a terminology thing.
But so basically they can blacklist addresses.
And if you are interacting with that address at some point, receiving payment
from it or sending payment to it, in some cases you may not even know.
Let's say you are operating a physical OTC exchange.
And my experience with those
exchanges were that you come to their office and they have a QR code that everyone uses to send
payments. And like I thought okay that's so insecure for them. Not just for them but even for their
users. So even if there is just one bad entity, one bad apple comes in like and sends a payment,
just one bad entity, one bad apple comes in like and sends a payment, you know, it puts, it jeopardizes the funds of that exchange, of that OTC exchange on centralized exchanges, basically, if they have accounts on centralized exchange, and they do, because that's how I think they ultimately settle trades.
time, not just them, but also
Jopardise is all other users that came there.
that's the point I tried to make
about the blacklisting
and about
and at the same time, many wallets
are, they are fairly
well, not a good word, but
stupid. Like the software
itself is not smart enough to
kind of do that
fairly basic checks to make sure that the address
is like okay because users they don't know you need to do it for them under the hood basically
and so that's the thing about blacklisting feature now about npc well first of all
npc uh well first of all we are not really like anti-kyc type of people you know i mean
there is a place where kyc is necessary and even in your real lives let's say you're taking your
like uh your son to a kindergarten right well they would not accept you anonymously right they
you you need to do some kind of due diligence And there are many other cases in real life where
that is necessary and that is normal. So the problem is with KYC now is that it's being done
everywhere for every tiny little thing. And that's one. And And secondly is that you are giving them so much of data.
And I've personally been through many KYC processes. Like in some cases it was relevant
to crypto. In other cases, like due diligence matters where you like kind of in some kind And it's, how to say it, it's not just annoying.
It's, in some cases, it's kind of, you kind of get this feeling.
It's kind of like a violation.
Yeah, yeah, it feels like a violation because let's say you have a deal going on and you suddenly
receive a huge sum to your bank account and everything went completely fine, completely
transparent with all the necessary lawyers in place and so on.
But for several years after that deal, every single financial institution would kind of ask you for every single bit about the deal.
And in some cases they would not even trust it, you know.
I mean, it's getting absurd really to the level of KYC some of the banks are doing right now.
It's absurd.
absurd. And so that's one thing. And second is that the data protection protocols in these
And so that's one thing.
organizations are absurd too, you know. I mean, I can trust, let's say, I mean, it's my
like subjective opinion, but if let's say I'm going to some reputable organization, even a traditional fintech, you know,
but with a proper like business practices and so on,
bureaucratic one,
I can kind of trust their KYC protocols.
At least I would kind of not be too worried about it.
But, you know, but at the same time
where you have a crypto exchange,
which is not really,
you don't know it's like where it even its headquarters
are located you know it's like maybe banned in half part of the world another half part it operates
under without any licenses and so on i mean and they're asking you to do like they're taking you
through whole kyc process so and there are so many questions like how they keep that data.
Do they share that data with someone, you know?
And then you also see this news where that data is being stolen, even from really good exchanges, which you thought were really good at least, you know?
So this is the problem.
This is the problem. This is the main problem, I would say.
This is the main problem, I would say.
I mean, like from the bird eye view, I mean, of course, we can go deeper and say, okay, in some cases, why there is KYC at all, you know.
But in general, these are two main problems.
So KYC has its place and it needs to be done in certain situations.
KYC has its place and it needs to be done in certain situations.
It's just the way it's being done now feels like it does a lot more harm
than actually the problems it's trying to solve.
And at this point, you have to ask yourself a question.
Do I actually... Can I expose myself or can I take my precautions
and look for ways where I can achieve the same thing, but without being exposed to those risks? So if I can buy something on decentralized text, why wouldn't I buy there rather than risk myself and go through like some exchange and go through a lot of problems as well so that's about
kyc and now about npc stuff npc is a good tech i think it's uh i think it has its place and i think
it's needed because uh right now when it comes to wallets even specifically, you know, not, I mean, a lot of people, I would say, it's an unfortunate, but it's a fact. would be better off if there is always a backup option where they would be able to restore
or to reaccess their funds if something goes wrong, if they lose the key or something else.
So that's one aspect of it.
There are many others. other. So I personally like know a couple of really good white label wallet solutions
that operate on MPC principle and I think they work well. I mean, if they were not around,
we would probably build one ourselves, you know, it's just we discovered it kind of later.
Later, I would say it was a bit too late. But as a solution, it has its own place.
At the same time, if you are a freedom maxi or if you are operating in a manner where
you need to ensure that you are resilient and that you need guarantees that you are not censored,
then MPC may not be for you.
So, but these are not like a majority group.
This is more like a minority group,
just like in everything else.
Like privacy maxis are not majority right now.
I mean, although we do talk about privacy a lot,
I mean, if you kind of start asking people
about whether they actually do the stuff they talk about, you would not find a lot, privacy a lot. I mean, if you kind of start asking people about whether they actually do the stuff they talk about,
you would not find a lot of people
trying to actually living by that.
And this, yeah, my two cents.
Right, thanks.
I really appreciate your perspective
on the three headlines.
And yeah, definitely.
We also believe that when something is being forced,
you know, that there's probably,
for lack of better term, an agenda behind it, you know.
And it's really, really important to have an alternative,
not just one, maybe 10, as a matter of fact,
considering where the world is headed right now. And yeah, it's really, really important to have an alternative, not just one, maybe 10 as a matter of fact, considering where the world is headed right now.
And yeah, it's really, really interesting
to have that perspective and to speak to you today.
Hope we'll be joining a lot more
hangouts like this in the future.
I got a question for you.
Can you hear me?
Okay.
Yeah, yes.
So, okay.
I'm just curious.
By the way, I'm really happy you came up.
I love hearing project and team that share our ethos, understand what's going on.
It makes me feel so good.
But I'm just curious, you know, based on what you do, how do you, what is your revenue stream?
How do you make your pound of flesh, right?
Because I'm just curious if there is some collaborative element here,
given that we're all around this decentralized ethos,
this tech, if there's any primitives
or anything you guys are planning on doing or offering,
if there's anything that maybe we could synergize
a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we do our MPC, firstly, we're layer one ourselves.
We're not necessarily tied to Ethereum or EVM per se.
We're in our own lane.
We have over 30 years of experience going behind our variation,
our own version of our multi-party computation.
We do have a partnership.
We love to build our ecosystem beyond where it is today.
And one of our very successful partnerships was with IDOS.
IDOS is a non-pustodial KYC management system.
So essentially what it is, is you put in your KYC once, and whenever it's requested from someone,
you just show what you need to show
without them knowing who you are because of the ZK element
that is built into it.
So on that front, we are hoping to actually
have a lot of these types of non-custodial key management
systems, not only within Web 3, but also in Web 2, wherever we can find them.
So we, at this point, we're really looking at open source communities because open source
communities tend to have very good devs in there and it's very, very vibrant. And
platforms who generally believe in privacy.
These are our target audience that we're going for.
So I hope that kind of answers the question,
but yeah, that's at least one of the ways that we're going about it.
I appreciate that.
And you are understandable,
but your mic does cut out like once every three,
two and a half seconds or something like that.
But Kenton, I'm going to kick it to you.
And thank you for explaining that, by the way. I really appreciate it. Kenton, that but uh kenton i'm gonna kick it to you i i believe and thank you for explaining that by the way i really appreciate
it um kenton were you gonna say something i'll kick it to you thank you thank you uh i'm not
just gonna add to the conversation about kyc like i heard um apparently in europe more money is spent
on compliance than than there is actual money laundering um so it's just like you know the it's just
you know and that's that's the direct cost let alone the indirect cost of just um handicapping
you know honest people transacting honestly right and just making it so difficult so yeah i i in my
opinion that this is the the the system is in a collapse on itself like they're
going to make like i mentioned carf earlier they're going to come out with so many rules
and regulations all kind of stuff it's just it's just going to eventually push people into crypto
because like we just can't it's impossible to comply with all this because it's effectively
you know we've gone backwards 500 years you know
we're now guilty and have to prove ourselves innocent right and um like it's impossible to
prove that you're you know what i mean like if somebody just if they come at us with you're
automatically you're guilty and you have to prove you're innocent it's like it's so hard to do that
um that's that's where we're at That's what these regulations and laws are. So I actually think
it's going to push. Are the people going to get pushed into crypto or they're going to go down
with the ship? Right. And it's interesting to see how it shakes out. Yeah. And always remember,
my friends, the biggest criminals of all are government themselves. And they are largely above the law.
And KYC, right?
It's inconvenience.
But we also like to say it means kill your customer because there are real concerns, real safety considerations when you surrender your own data to third parties.
It's a nonsense thing.
We know we're on the right side, guys.
We keep pushing.
But Kenton, I'm wondering now if time is to transition to the front end um 100 yeah i'm not getting any questions go ahead yeah no sorry uh
i'm in i'm interrupting you go ahead oh no no we're good i just no questions from the community
and i think that's because everyone understands and i suspected this that unstoppable your ethos
is and what you guys stand for so that's a really good good sign. But go ahead, Kenton, I'll kick it to you.
I was saying the exact same thing.
We should keep the conversation moving here.
And I appreciate Unstoppable, your time.
But let's start shifting gears towards ThorChain and the front end.
So in the summer, I was pretty loud about Thorchain needing its own front end and looking for
devs to do it.
And I had a few, for as many people that were criticizing me and mocking me online, I had
as many people supporting me and wanting to help.
And a few different teams offered to build a free front end and uh for a
thort chain and unstoppable is one of them and so um you know so i talked to all these different
teams and whatnot talked to unstoppable and just based on what everybody all of their ideas what
they wanted to do and contribute like a lot of people were like there's a lot of good people out there a lot of good teams and after talking to everybody I kind
of basically settled on unstoppable thinking okay I think I think we're going to get best bang for
our buck and more importantly like like you guys are you're're committed, you know, like to the, to the vision, right? The ethos. And
so maybe Unsolvable, maybe you can just kind of, you know, what, why did you offer to make a free
front end for Thor chain? You know, why, why did you want to get involved? Why, why did you agree
to now develop this front end with us and stay with it to support it you know what what motivated
you what's what's in it for you you know why why why are you guys doing this well as as I have said TorChain was the first... For us, it was the first working cross-chain DEX.
We have seen a lot of noise over the years, we have seen a lot of promises,
a number of projects we're building, and we tried building even some ourselves.
And TorChain was the one actually that worked, delivered,
and moreover actually had the volumes in some cases uh which were uh well like competing
with that of binance you know like when you can say you can do a six seven figure swap uh of btc
in and in tor chain and get maybe a better rate than you would get on binance so uh that was amazing and we actually felt that this was one of the
yeah best things that happened to crypto over the last uh five six years yeah one of the best really
so that that was one thing right second we wanted to be a part of it and And we said, okay, how we can be part of it? We don't know, but let's
at least get to know the people who are in that community. What are they after? And we
started following you. Well, actually, as a quick detour, one minute, and I actually
want to add it because I felt that's important. So when you asked me why it took us that long to add Torchain,
because it's been added to wallet like six, seven months now.
Why not earlier? I actually remembered why.
It was added into development server actually,
maybe one and a half or two years ago.
And the reason it was not pushed live because when
we started testing it, we realized that
okay, there was one problem where
it's a technical
thing, but maybe you can
like know about it. I will
there are people who
should know about it. So
not all
your, let's say, Bitcoin balance can be used to swap on TorChain.
So if, let's say, you made a withdrawal from Binance to your wallet and that withdrawal just landed in your wallet, you will not be able to swap it on Torchain. And there are reasons for that. And there are reasons, there are ways to kind of fix that.
But it was kind of problematic for us to kind of figure out
how to make it all understandable and comprehensible in the UI part.
So we postponed that thing.
And it stayed postponed for about a year until I think a lot of people
were complaining that centralized exchange were shutting them down for that same KYC
thing, tightening and so on. And that's how it kind of became back on the priority list
and we kind of, yeah, we went ahead and figured that thing out so that's
uh going back to uh why it took a while so can i can i can i interrupt you for a sec yeah when you
say yeah um you can't when you withdraw bitcoin from binance to your wallet you can't trade on
bitcoin or trade on door chain are you saying you need to wait like an hour? Like it needs to go through so many confirmations for the...
No, you actually cannot use that specific unspent output because due to the way that how nodes on Torchain validate deposits.
Yeah.
What you can do, either use...
I mean, most Bitcoin transactions would be fine.
It's only those that are typically withdrawals from, well, Binance does that.
They take, in one transaction, they send to many addresses.
So, and that's a problem for the Torchain nodes.
Yeah, they do not like that.
They do not accept those. So one way to mitigate this is to kind of take your balance, send it to yourself. Yeah, one more transaction and after that it's usable again, you know.
And it has this specific issue.
And yeah, maybe right now it's already not the issue,
but I think it's still the issue, yeah.
I think they may figure it out in the long run how to…
It's basically computationally expensive for nodes to monitor those ATXOs.
So, yeah. Yeah, keep going.
Yeah, so we wanted to be a part of it basically. And I think one of, it wasn't me, but one
of our guys reached out to on Twitter and said that, oh, oh yeah, we saw around that
time in the summer, we saw a discussion on Twitter that TorChain didn't have its own front end.
And back then, actually, we didn't know about all different, well, we knew, like what kind of business setups were there in each project.
We kind of had no idea about it.
Well, we still kind of know just from the top.
But what we realized that Torchain didn't have one and community was saying that it would be cool if there was one. So we jumped in and thought, okay, why not to build one?
Because we felt that we can do it and do it quickly and do it well.
I mean, at least we had this confidence about it.
So that's how we got in.
Nice. Great.
And I'm pretty happy so far.
I really like, you know, it's one thing it's easy to say,
oh, you need a simple interface, easy to use, right? Everybody says that.
We all know that.
But to actually deliver and do it, I think you guys have done a great job so far on building, like, a simple, easy-to-use interface.
So I've been happy with that.
I hope everybody else is.
But you're not done yet, right?
We still have lots more features
to add to the site. Can you maybe, can you kind of give us an idea, like when you think we'll be
able to get like, you know, bonding your Rune, LPing, message deposit, like kind of the,
all the actions you can do with Rune. Do you have an idea when you think we'll be able to start
seeing those on the front end? Well, yeah, I think soon. Right now, I think we are in that stage
where we went through the hardest part, that is to make first stable release, which happened,
stable release which happened I think two three weeks ago right or a few weeks
back basically so right now we try to kind of do some clean up some technical
as well as some organizational depth if I can say it's yeah name it so like a lot
of things we do we did in a rushing manner, right?
Because, well, I told you, we discussed that in the past,
I think both privately and publicly.
First thing that I want to say publicly,
and I think it hasn't been mentioned,
that you did an amazing job because you essentially,
well, those who are in software development process and been working on large projects, they would know that what you have been doing
as a single person, usually like in larger teams is like maybe a task for five, six people.
At the same time, in our case, like we, it may look just like a simple website with a couple of
input buttons, but there is a lot of things under the hood.
The most important part was to deliver it.
And I think that part we did well.
There were a lot of things we could have done better.
And right now we try to fix those like, well,
attestations, libraries, cleanup, documentation, and so on.
So those are kind of finalized.
For example, as you know, like at first when we launched,
the whole thing was on our servers.
Now it's on your servers.
So all of those things are being done right now.
I think we are polishing and you are aware we are polishing
like things like blacklists, some compliance measures, the most necessary ones, basically, right? Like terrorists, like those compliance things that you would expect it from
Like those compliance things that you would expect from a published sanctioned list and so on.
So those are in place.
So the most important ones.
I think we are maybe towards the end of the next week, we will have another sort of major release with the latest bug fixes and so on.
And after that, we would start working on those features that you and community had planned to have on that interface.
So right now, the first version of the interface was to launch a website that would allow someone to swap on the TorChain.
And that happened a few months ago.
The second major thing was to ensure that swaps can be done not just through a TorChain, but through a set of DEXs.
So it's like from a simple swap website, you go to an aggregation type of website. And that was also a major task, which actually, well, yeah, a really major task. And I think we're kind of done with it because right now Torchain nodes are voted that there should be just Maya and Torchain.
So there are just two DEXs.
But nonetheless, the aggregation part was built.
And although it will be just using two DEXs right now,
if there is, well, if I'm not mistaken, just last week,
another fork of Torchain launched.
So at some point you might want to add this one.
So if there is ever a need to add more DEXs, it's really easy to do that right now. So
that part was the second major part. And next, I think two, three months, we are likely to finish everything that we wanted to do and that is limit swaps uh
what else uh all the all the tor chains blockchain specific things like rune bonding
so so all those things that i that i think i've seenSwap, I think has them, right?
So we have a list of them somewhere, but I don't really remember it by heart.
So, but those things, I think they are quick because we actually spent some time
estimating the workload at the very beginning.
So back in the summer and at that point, I don't remember that any of those being a major task.
So within, I think within, so it's December now, if all goes well, maybe end of February, everything that ever planned for it should be there.
February, everything that ever planned for it should be there.
Plus, yeah, plus all the things that you need to maintain.
I mean, it's not just the features, right?
We are building all the features, but there are many other things
which you haven't specifically asked us to do,
but we have to provide you them with so that you are not always dependent on us. And you are also, as a community, you are also more or less have
administrative things like a panel for everything you need to do on the TARC.
For example, let's say you want to instantly halt the interface.
Well, for whatever reason, you know, sometimes there are bugs, there are
like hacks, right?
And you need to pause everything.
Yeah.
And for that, you don't need to go and look for your dev to go, like, I
don't know, take the server down.
So you simply may, I don't know take the server down so you simply may i don't know
open a web some website uh some web link on your mobile phone uh enter an administrative password
and click a pause button you know so something like that uh or like if you want to maintain um
like uh i don't know let's say like someone is something, some major hack is going on and you for some, you don't want that those funds to pass through your Tor chain, right? So you can instantly go and add that address to some kind of blacklist menu so that, yeah, you don't have to look for anyone to do it. You can just, or anyone with an administrative level access to the site can do that without
having to go and look for a dev or some kind of, yeah, technical guy to do it.
So those things are being done in parallel too.
Yeah, I think, yeah, two, three months.
So everything that's native to Tor blockchain or Torchain blockchain will be there.
And limit orders.
I also see that Torchain itself is being improved right now.
I've seen, I think JP posted some things today or yesterday. itself is being improved right now.
I've seen, I think JP posted some things today or yesterday. So if part of those things will affect how swaps are being done
and maybe it will require some change on the interface side,
we would add those two.
If TorChain community, and I've seen there were discussions about it,
if TorChain community decides to have someone from the TorChain community itself,
let's say, doing administration and developing the site further,
yeah, we would provide necessary documentation and everything for that person to kind of
take over that from us.
That's basically in our best interest to kind of build, provide you with all the tools you
need to maintain and yeah, and continue doing our stuff or continue doing something else
within the TorChain ecosystem.
Because right now TorChain blockchain evolves quite well and I see like some things that
can be built on top of it which we are really interested in.
Like I don't know, like a stable coin that's where a Bitcoin is a collateral, you know,
that can be built for example on the Torchain. And we are interested in those things.
So, yeah, that's a vision, a plan.
Great. Yeah, I just want to clarify one thing.
It wasn't the nodes that decided or voted on the DexEggregator
only being Torchain and Maya.
It was the treasury.
And they just told me just the other day.
Like you said,
it's there, it's in place.
We can always change that, always add
other taxes if we want.
That's great, Unstoppable.
That was actually one thing that
stood out for me too when we first started
having these conversations in
July or August, was that
you wanted to build the front end
due to in a way that you could hand it off.
That like, you know, if we wanted to part ways with you guys,
whoever replaced you would be able to hit the ground running.
They'd be able to take it over and keep going.
So it was, and correct me if I'm wrong,
I think you actually, originally that is what you wanted
to do was to just build it for us and then leave.
And it was me that actually kind of insisted
on keeping you guys around.
Like I don't, you know, if you built it,
I think it's great if you maintain it
because you're familiar with it. But what I'm trying to say is either scenario, you know, if you built it, I think it's great if you maintain it because you're familiar with it.
But what I'm trying to say is either scenario you're okay with, right? It wasn't like, you know, we have to get you to build it and we have to keep you forever type thing.
Like you're, if we want to hand it off to someone else, we can.
And it's not, that wouldn't bother you, right?
There's no hard feelings or anything.
Oh, no, yeah, no.
In fact, that's what we want uh because uh
well i'll be honest it's demanding uh it's interesting and we like doing that but it's
also demanding right and it's responsibility uh other apart from demanding and responsibility is
that first of all torchain has a large community and it's larger than ours.
And although I feel that our communities now intersect, the values shared by our users are also the values shared by Torchain users.
So that's a cool thing for us.
But still, it's a large community, larger than ours.
It's a large community, larger than ours.
It's demanding.
It's a lot of responsibility because on many levels,
there are a lot of larger sums going through TorChain.
There is a technology which we are familiar with,
but not as well as familiar with the stuff we worked on.
I mean, we worked.
We actually built two DEXs on using the same
tech stack, but still, still it's something, let's say we worked with for like three years, not like
10 or 15 years. If you ask for about mobile tech stuff, Swift, Kotlin, we know these things really
well. We are really comfortable with them. We built a lot of libraries.
We built Bitcoin on that, like actual Bitcoin client based on the reference specifications
and so on.
So it's demanding.
It is a community and project we like and we want to be a part of it.
But at the same time, it's one thing to be a part of it
and working on your thing within that ecosystem
rather than on working a major thing on that ecosystem
and get paid for it, you know.
Because when you are paid, you are expected to do certain things.
You are also responsible for certain things and so on.
And yeah, best is to build, to make it well, to do your best thing,
to be there when you need us, let's say for, I don't know, for anything.
For maybe to train someone new who comes up.
Yeah.
Or, but not to actually take it as a long term task and like another, introduce a whole
new domain to your existing agenda.
You know, that was not our plan.
So we wanted to build, we wanted to, yeah, to kind of
become part of the community, but ideally to build and to pass it on. And I don't see any reason why
it cannot be done. Because if let's say we built a wallet for you, a mobile wallet, or let's say
we build the same things but on
using Swift and Kotlin, then passing it over would be difficult.
I mean, we would pass it over, but it would be hard to find someone to maintain.
But when it comes to the Web tech stack, it's
yeah, it's fairly standard technologies, fairly standard practices. We didn't try to innovate too much because in crypto,
innovating is not good, it's risky.
You just take what works and you implement it.
So where we do innovate is the front end, because that's where we have a lot of experience with.
So there we can take and there are like no risks with
like security risks. But when it comes to…
Do you mean like the interface?
Like just the flow, artwork?
Yeah, the interface.
Yeah, how it looks.
Yeah, yeah, the looks of it. So I don't see any reason why it cannot be transitioned. So if you at some point, if a treasury, let's say, after we are done and after there is a documentation in place,
you can actually hire someone full time and one person would be enough.
And it would be normal for that person to know everything for the... all parts of the setup.
Because setup is not complicated and it uses...
Yeah, it uses more or less one type of technology.
Yeah, it's like React, JavaScript, and so on.
It's not like you have to know a lot of different domains.
So if someone has experience working in web3 and
that person is proficient just even one person would be enough to maintain it of course if you
want to redesign what the whole thing at some point and uh redo maybe how like swap works and
so on yeah you might need like to like you might need to expand the team.
But to maintain it, to fix the bugs, to add new features, one person would be enough.
But in the meantime, we have you, right?
Yeah, yeah. Until we are done, we made a commitment.
So as long as we have that understanding understanding we'll finish what we have started
yeah good i'm looking forward to finishing too um patriot do you have any questions well i just
want to say right now um this is happening live i had someone come in the telegram um torching
telegram and they just reported an issue about uh usdt ethereum uh to bitcoin swap
they're getting a 404 error so i just conveyed to them in private dm um that to submit an email
request to see i think it was the wasabi wallet or something if i'm not mistaken um so yeah just
a little highlight there so again thank you everyone for helping Unstoppable
and the various devs bug and to fix the issue.
And they will be submitting an email with that as well.
But I just want to say it live and bring it to your attention.
So great job, everybody.
Please keep doing that.
You're only helping the Unstoppable guys.
You're only helping Kenton make the interface better, faster.
That's what we need.
So well done. exactly like there's this is why like the site's still in beta right like where this is why
like it's not done right and that's why i don't really want to try to promote it too much because
um there's going to be there's still edge cases right there's still issues we still need to iron out and um um yeah thank you
yeah please tell us right there's some like i'll have people tell me about an issue i'm like i can't
reproduce it but it's happening on their end and i'm like i have no idea so like you know everybody's
computers are different everybody uses it differently everyone has different wallets
different browsers like it's all um the more feedback we get, the better. I do have a, one thing I want to ask, um, you know, when you were
making the, the, the front end, it's a lot of the 14 things, right. You know, the bonding, all that
stuff's coming, which is great. Um, but one thing I want to ask is what about the Regera side? Um,
you know, they're, they're really cooking. Obviously nothing is prime time yet, but I'm curious if, you know, how you are envisioning
that, like how long that might take you to integrate if you're not sure.
And if you do integrate it, is it something that, you know, would be kind of good for
your own hard work?
If you add, let's say, uh, lending liquidations, things like that to the front end, can you
just pull that out and add it to your unstoppable wallet pretty quickly since you built it for work if you add, let's say, lending, liquidations, things like that to the front end. Can you just
pull that out and add it to your unstoppable wallet pretty quickly since you built it for
the front end itself? Well, in context of what needs to be done for the Tor chain,
I only have like some, well, I only have understanding about the workload involved, about things that Canton told us about.
So there are, I mean, I'm one of the people involved and I take like more of, I stay between the devs and the Canton, you know, to make sure that there is a, like a proper communication.
So whatever Canton wants, I kind of convert that into the tech tasks and so on.
There is someone else as well apart from me.
But basically, I don't know about Rujira yet because that's not...
We haven't discussed it basically.
We haven't discussed it basically.
Yeah, that's the reason.
Yeah, that's the reason.
But I know what Trujira does and what kind of services there are, and I don't see any
problem with it.
I mean, it's all fairly to add things like iteratively, right? And we had this
even with Kenton in the past, we discussed this. For example, at one point we had this swap working
and then MemoLess came in and then like limit orders came in.
And I told Kate that, okay, first we need to work on the MemoLess to integrate it
properly, to make sure that we feel completely good about it and only then
start working on limits.
And we actually read about the limits before that and we understood, okay, it was more of a UI thing, you know.
You need to think through all potential cases with BMLS first and then with limits.
And trying to do all of those two things at the same time is, well, it's a waste of time most of the time because you would design one thing,
you would think of some edge cases and you would think that you covered all the potential cases.
but when the deaths actually implement it there will be so more new cases come like uh coming up
that uh you kind of uh at some point understand that okay your design no longer works you need
to start from fresh you know so uh right now we feel that limitless limit order should come in next
and with that we have trading uh sort of uh everything related to trading kind of implemented
then we we start thinking about non-trading related stuff but stuff related to Torchain itself. And those are like rune bonding, staking and things like that.
Yeah.
And I would do that first and later, yeah, think about things like
Rujira stuff that's there, you know, with the lending and so on.
But it's really not up to us.
It's, I'm more of uh i'm trying to just i i listen what the
community needs and then uh yeah kind of tell uh canton whether we can do it or not or i mean with
whether we can do it or not is one thing and second uh in some cases, we, yeah, there may be reason why we would not want to do that, you know, and we would tell that.
But whatever we had planned so far for the Torchain related stuff, we feel that we can deliver and it will be all there by the, yeah, probably by the end of February, I think.
end of February, I think. And if
Rogira becomes necessary, then yeah,
we will discuss it with Kenton. I
basically see no problem with it, but
it's haven't been talked about
basically yet.
Yeah. And I'll just add to that. So
basically, I've been like kind of telling Unstoppable like what to prioritize, you know, what to do first, where to go. And yeah, we feel like getting the limit orders done here is probably a bit more important than the ruined bonding and stuff. So that's what we're working on that next. And then, yeah, the Rajira stuff, the smart contract app layer stuff,
it is on our Google Doc, iBeck.
But I've been viewing that as kind of like the last thing to do.
You know, like let's get L1 swaps done.
Let's get all the ThorChain features done
and basically save app layer for last.
And it's been a while. It while been a few months so i chatted
with pragmatic monkey about it but i'm i'm sure his his views haven't changed but he was like 100
supportive so you know i'm sure they could basically you know share all their code with us
right from from regi trade and we basically you know copy as much as we can to get into the Thor chain front end. And I've already
been thinking about like, how do we, you know, how do we separate the two? So I'm like, I'm wondering
if it's kind of like, you know, Kraken and Coinbase now, I think, and I don't Binance says this, but I
think Kraken and Coinbase, maybe some other sexes do this where they have like a, like a basic view and then a pro view.
And the basic view is like what you see on Uniswap and the Thorton front end, like a
simple swap interface.
And then the pro view is like what you see in Binance, like the market depth, the charts
and all your orders, all kind of stuff.
So I'm wondering just i'm just wrapping
live i beck and i haven't even talked about this but like i've been kind of wondering on the
front end if we do something similar where we have like the default is the basic view what you see
now and then maybe you click a button to go to the pro and then that's when you get all the app
layer features and it you know it's a brand, it's a totally different look, right?
You kind of like go into a different interface in a sense.
But yeah, this is kind of, I'm putting the app layer stuff
like at the end of the list, basically.
Want to get all the ThorChain layer one stuff done,
get all that done look working looking good
um I'd even like to I'm even thinking again I'm just thinking out loud right now to prioritize
the the widget you know the ability for people to fork ThorChain and and have a ThorChain
widget interface on their website I'm even thinking maybe that might be more important to do before
the app layer features um but yeah well yeah this is more kind of the end of the process right we're
focusing more on the uh the immediate things uh the patriot is like blowing up my telegram right
now i think he got rugged yeah sorry sorry about sorry. Sorry about that. Oh, you're there. Okay. Yeah.
Oh, you're back. You're here. Okay. Yeah, I, um, you know, hit me with RUA bot notification
mid as I'm co-hosting a space and just rug. This is my phone. Unbelievable. Thank you, X. That was
well done. Brilliant. Slow clap. Slow clap for X, everybody. Continue, Kenton. I'm sorry.
No, no, it's good. Um, just you guys guys stop texting and telling them i'm getting hit with all these notifications
it's distracting um did you want to keep going patriot you had uh i don't know if you heard
any heard us talking do you have any other follow-up questions you want to do well i don't
for the brevity of time um you know i asked about the regera primitives and then that is exactly when i got hit with the thing so i'll just listen to the recording to hear the answer that i don't for the brevity of time. You know, I asked about the Regere primitives and then that is exactly when I got hit
with the thing.
So I'll just listen to the recording to hear the answer that I don't want to
duplicate material for the audience,
but yeah,
I don't know what you guys just talked about,
but yeah,
continue on Kenton.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Listen to the recording listeners,
guys,
audience,
if you have any questions you want to come up,
please do.
You know,
we're getting,
we're running on two hours here. you know should probably maybe start wrapping it up here soon if no one has any questions um ibik is there anything that we haven't discussed that you'd like
to bring up and talk about um whether it's about the front end or unstoppable wallet, you know, anything else you want to chat about?
I think we covered pretty much everything.
Yeah, nothing specific on my mind.
Yeah, basically, I think we are like done with the most essential parts.
I mean, if the goal was to build a
Torchy in front end, it's there.
We are yet to finalize it, and that is to build all other things that you also wanted to have there.
So those, I don't see any problems there. It's not like, complexity-wise wise those are much more simpler things uh i do think that
oh that there are some things that you might want to think about improving on the
the compliance part, you know, because its essentials are there in place, but it can be better.
And that really depends on several factors which are more for Torchene Treasury to decide,
especially like whether certain services should be put in place. more for Torchene Treasury to decide, especially whether
certain services
should be put in place.
So that's a thing for you guys to think about.
yeah, other than that...
Let me address that.
So yeah.
So far, Treasury is on board.
They want to do something
we're all
we're talking about it
because the
basically the
the blacklist
well address
the blacklist thing
that we have in place
is kind of like
bare minimum
right
and we don't
yeah
we don't want to do
the bare minimum
we want to do more
and I do feel that
if you
I mean it's you're not like a niche DEX, right?
You are essentially, yeah, you are like becoming a front face for DEX in general.
For like in the entire crypto ecosystem, not just in the Torchain ecosystem.
And I think you should kind of adopt all the best practices which are out there.
Security best practices.
We are adopting the technical best practices, but we are doing the technical stuff.
But there are other parts to it, like security best practices, compliance best practices.
I mean, there are some things you have to do, and these are like, I mean, some things
are subjective and some projects would go and do a lot more things that they have to
do so much that they would end up doing more compliance than like, I don't know, a bank,
a traditional bank.
And that hurts people. But
at the same time, what you want to make sure is that there is, let's say, if there is some
really bad things happening and you don't want to serve those people. And yeah, we, there are,
I think, universally agreed things.
There is no point in listing some things,
but there are universally agreed certain activities
which neither of us wants to be a part of.
Like, you know, like, I don't know, pedophilia or like, yeah,
some other things.
I want to list those, but yeah.
So a good compliance is essential.
And yeah, our job is to make sure
that you are not just paying for help you.
I mean, you don't need us for that,
but we obviously can integrate it well.
And yeah, if there is any other ways where we can improve things, we also add those.
I mean, right now we say that there is a bare minimum, but essentially the existing
interface already like actually like scans a a number maybe four or five databases uh some of
those are not like really known but uh we also do that right now yeah i agree i would love to have
you know our goal to be you know touching in front and having the best wallet blacklist there is um
front end having the best wallet blacklist there is um and if not the best at least top quartile
right you know like we're we're trying um and you know for anyone you know there's you know some
people will snicker and be like oh well i thought tortuin is permissionless why are you blacklist
things like well the protocol is permissionless but the front end can can have a blacklist right the front end
doesn't equal the protocol and um i think anyone who's smart enough to understand why
why free freedom of speech matters and freedom of of transacting matters can can understand the
difference between the third chain front end and door chain protocol and um and there are other front ends uh you know if you're
really a purist you know like well i'm not going to use a third chain front end because i got a
wallet blacklist that's you know blah blah blah there are other front ends that do not use
blacklists right so um that's one of the the advantages and values of thoracic and having
partners is that um you know thoracchain being integrated everywhere that, you know,
some people don't want to run on block lists. They don't have to, that's,
you know, they, that's their prerogative, right.
You know, it's not enough for us to tell them what to do. So those options,
you know, for you purists out there, those options are available,
but for the Thorchain front end, for saving face, you know,
for marketing, right. You know, at least we can say, Hey,Chain front end for saving face you know for marketing right you
know at least we can say hey on our front end we're doing what we can you know we're taking
it seriously and we're trying we can't censor at the protocol level but we can censor at the
front end level and we'll you know try our best there and um um so it actually for the ThorChain
front end like the best thing for that front end is just
have as much legitimate volume as possible right and stop all the illicit stuff because then that
just helps you know paint us in a more positive light and helps us get past the kind of the bad
press in the past so um yeah so i don't think it's i don't think it's i don't think it's hypocrisy or contradictory
for the front end to have
wallet blacklist, where
at the same time, say, Thorchain
is permissionless.
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree.
That's not a hard one at all. I think that's
one of the easier things to just,
I mean, I hate to sound hand-wavy, but that's just
silly. I mean, if you're having a front end,
you can do what you can to stop criminals from using.
That's fine.
But if the base protocol itself is permissionless, then our ethos isn't intact.
It does not matter.
So yeah, that one was easy.
I'm surprised people are bringing that up, honestly.
That's just, I think, common sense.
Go ahead, Unstoppable.
Get your hand up.
I think what everyone should understand is that everyone, I mean, first of all, protocol,
they are not run by someone. They are not run by a single entity. It's a group of, well,
it's a large group of nodes, and anyone can potentially become a node.
You don't need someone's permission.
So it's decentralized in that case.
Interfaces, on the other hand, especially those that are accessible through a domain,
like torchain.com, and any other domain specifically, they are centralized.
And so there are entities behind those,
like in many cases, physical entities behind those.
And so expecting for the interface for the website
to be decentralized sort of is, well, it's,
in many, I wouldn't say it's impossible but it's unreasonable and that's one part so a website cannot be censorship resistant uh a protocol
anyone anyone can go and broadcast a transaction to tor chain and for that you don't need a website. You can use a Block Explorer.
I think TorScan is the name of Block Explorer. So I'm not specifically if TorScan has that
capability, but I'm pretty sure it does. So you don't need to be super technical. With
fairly basic tools, you can go and broadcast any transaction you want to a Torchain blockchain.
And you can make it look as though it was actually...
I mean, you can kind of spoof it and make it look as though it was...
It may seem as a transaction going through some...
With that Tor name, you know?
You can basically put any tour name you want
to any transaction, yeah?
So someone would see a tour name and thinking,
oh, that transaction went through that interface,
but actually it didn't.
It was...
So there is that thing that everyone should understand, yeah?
So the bad entities or anyone who wants,
really wants to publish transactions, they will. And for
that they don't need an interface. Yeah, that's a fact.
And they did do that. That's what was happening.
They do that. And they will do that. And they can even do that in a way where a public would
think that that transaction was actually happened on some specific website.
Yeah, or interface. So that's one thing. Second, all of us have a different understanding of censorship resistant and decentralization, you know, some, some, and that is a spectrum. Some would say I go 100%. There are no ifs and everything should go. But some are a bit more moderate and
would say, okay, I am fine with up 98%. What I don't want, like, let's say, well, there are a lot of,
I don't want to mention those like specific niches, but there are a lot of niches which are unhumane, basically.
And you don't want to be involved with those people or with those entities,
with that industry or domain in any way possible.
Not just for regulatory reasons, but for like humane reasons, for ethical reasons,
yeah, like for personal reasons, but for like humane reasons, for ethical reasons, yeah, like for personal reasons, right?
So there are legitimate ways, reasons for some interface operator, whether it's a person or a company,
to, yeah, to have their, I mean, if they're putting their time and effort to run an interface,
it might be in their interest also not to serve specific type of people.
And if those people want to get served, they will still be able to,
but just have to make an extra effort themselves to go and broadcast their transaction.
So there is that thing in place.
And I think that there is a relevant point to take into account.
Yeah, absolutely.
The best we can...
This is, I think, i think about this lots to be
honest you guys like it's uh you know the cost of freedom of speech is hearing things you don't agree
with and um and it's the same thing with the freedom of transacting money right is people
are gonna people you don't like are gonna use it right it's just it's just inevitable and um you know the best we can do is just trying is prevention right trying to prevent
uh money being stolen right it's not you know the our entire world has been built around reacting
to problems instead of preventing them. And so for me,
it's what's like really exciting about crypto.
Like we're kind of like,
we're fundamentally changing the way societies
would be structured and views each other, right?
So instead of like censorship,
censoring these transactions about reacting to the problem,
what about trying to prevent it, right?
So if we go back to
the like the bybit stuff um everyone says well if they're using vaultysig wouldn't have happened
right how much how you get a free wallet do you get to use for free and prevented you prevented
uh that from happening like that's if anyone's gonna knee-jerk reaction into changing the way we do things it should be a knee-jerk reaction into changing
into preventing the these steps from occurring in the first place instead of knee-jerk reaction
reacting into uh introducing all kinds of censorship and whatnot so um yeah but we you
know it's unfortunately we're in the minority, right?
We're a handful of people understand this, but I do think we're going to win.
I do think we're going to push this forward and we will succeed.
Go ahead guys.
Well, I think, you know, to, to bring your point home a little bit here is when you adopt
this mentality that we all share, whether you're up on stage or listening to this, you
never go back, right? Our numbers are only increasing. I'm very optimistic for the future.
We still have a lot of things to do, but that was perfectly stated, Kenton. You know, the price of
the freedom of speech is hearing the speech you do not want to hear. And, you know, a free and
open market means sometimes that stuff happens, but the alternative is not an alternative at all it's um
right i mean freedom requires risk but you know if you're not willing to accept life with risk
you can't have freedom it is what it is so that's how it is guys um i think that was well said
kenton good job um well we're at the two hourhour mark, Unstoppable, did you have anything else? I'm thinking maybe we wrap it up.
No, thanks for having us.
I thought this was a great conversation, Kenton.
Do you have anything else before I do the outro here?
No, that's great.
Appreciate your time, Unstoppable.
Appreciate the work you're doing at the front end.
I think it's good.
I hope everybody else likes it.
Guys, gals, keep putting in your, you know, if you have any bugs or things don't look good or aren't working, please let us know.
You know, you've got the email at the bottom there.
Trying to get everyone to use email, right?
One place to kind of collect everything.
But, you know, if you're not going to listen, post on telegram discord whatever we try to keep track um but you can't the the email is the
one thing you can hold it's accountable you know that when you send it submit the thing on email
that we do get that um and appreciate your patience you guys it's still a work in progress
like like i said it's still new things being added uh new
things being worked on um we do see all you know when you email us those bug reports so we do see
it all like it's just and i'm pushing the unstoppable guys too like when is this done
get this come on you guys right and they um you know we just got to be patient with them to to
deliver but these all these things will be done and be fixed. It's just they need time to do it.
So I thank you, Osama, for your efforts and contributions to ThorChain.
And when we had a time where devs are leaving, running away from ThorChain,
we have devs like you running towards ThorChain.
And so I'm grateful you guys are here and want to contribute. So thank you.
Yes, thank you very much, guys. And for the outro here, let's just talk about some numbers here,
right? Because words are words, figures are figures. We all love that. So according to what
I'm seeing right now, swap.thorchain.org
is on the tippy top.
We have about 50 million
that has run through,
which is incredible.
It's the week, over the week, I should say.
I think. Yeah, I should do.
But we're on top. It's irrelevant.
And it's more than 7x
the second place contender,
which is fantastic.
I mean, if there was ever proof that the front end was definitely what ThorChain needed,
there it is.
It's in the raw numbers.
People wanted ThorChain to have its own interface.
So great job, guys.
Next Thursday, guys, we're still up in the air whether or not we're going to have Chad
Bareford for a Thursday episode.
It is the holiday season, guys.
He's not sure.
We're not sure.
So don't hold it to that. attention to the thor chain account um they'll surely update as well uh
the next saturday is going to be the last space of the year we're going to be doing it with rogera
guys we're going to go out with rogera we're going to go with a big bang i'm really excited for that
as you guys been paying attention a lot of things are coming so keep an eye out for that guys. Um, maybe we'll do a live stream
I don't know i'll talk to them about it. That might be fun to do the last space
Maybe try to do a live stream show some things i'm not sure I don't want to hold them to that
But I think it's fun if we try to make the last uh space as epic as possible
Once again guys, thank you everyone for tuning in. Thank you every patient. Thank you unstoppable for your patience
Thank you to the TC intern.
And thank you Kenton as always
for being the best co-host I could ask for.
I hope the rest of you have a great rest of your weekend
and we will talk to you and see you soon.
Bye everybody. Thank you.
