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THORChain Lounge: Liquify!
Recorded: Feb. 28, 2026 Duration: 0:13:02Space Recording
Full Transcription
Grand exit. An absolutely legendary exit. He just wanted to go and he wanted to take us with him.
So I love you, Kenton, but we can't go with you, buddy. I don't know if you know that,
but we cannot go with you. So he loves me. He loves Andy. It is what it is, you guys. I'm sorry
for that. I'm going to filibuster for a little bit more to allow people to. I've seen some people
join already. Okay okay that was very special
and i'm glad that happened because it's really funny drop moment yeah that's a yeah he yeah he
mic rug you know what i mean the mic rug everyone's mic's off you know what i mean
coke's gonna have some work to do on this one hope you're ready to put in some hours there
yeah splicing together there coke yeah here we go oh we
gotta rip on kenton boomer moment of 2026 that is exactly what that was he is an old man you guys
everyone knows kenton is 97 years old and he's on various medications to make him look young but
he's a very old man so you know it is but we forgive him we still love him he's just old so
andy um this has been such a fun conversation.
I'm having a great time.
You know, to bring it back to where we were before,
Ken didn't decide to rug us.
Guys, we were talking about, you know, decentralization
and having various nodes basically split their nodes to churn in, right?
To get little nodes to turn in, to capture network.
Very hard to do.
In fact, economically irrational to do, right?
Because you're still making the same yield
because your yield is proportional
to the amount of ruin you have in the network.
It's all evenly allocated.
So yeah, you know what?
I think that idea is really good, Andy,
about what you said about basically having a new metric
for staying churned in for opt-in chain clients.
The more chains you support,
I think that's pretty good, right? Because we're going to have to change the behavior a little bit,
right? Because now the network is more complex. And, oh, man, there's something I got to think
about this off camera. I don't want to filibuster by being silent and thinking, but yeah, I think,
okay, I think you have to keep it simple like that because because slash man slash slash slash points okay uh would it just be a oh man how the heck do you
figure this out so if you have slash points right and then you have nodes you would just make it a
separate qualifier right like what if someone had the worst amount of slash points and they also had the least amount of chains supported?
Do you just combine the two metrics
or do you still just assign one and go for someone else, would you say?
I guess maybe you can have a separate churn out requirement.
So you're going to have more slash points
the more volts you're observing, obviously.
I guess it has to be a, I guess that has to change.
I guess maybe a relationship on the number of observations in each volt,
and then how many observations you've missed in that volt, if that makes sense.
Right, okay, yeah, yeah.
So slash points are kind of weighted in some way, shape, or form based on the volume in each vault.
Because otherwise you could get, say you'd be observing, I don't know, a chain that only has 100 swaps a day.
They're going to have very little slash points on that.
So you'd have to weight that based on the total of observations in that vault, I guess.
Yes, because slash points then punish nodes who support more chains if we need the behavior the same, right?
Which is counterintuitive completely.
So you'll have nodes on only one chain who never get churned out
because they get churned out for H and that's it.
But they're not securing the network or facilitating transactions
like other node operators.
And then we'll get into that situation.
Like you mentioned, you'd have a kind of disparity on more nodes,
more nodes in the churn who observe less chains because they've got less flash points
so I guess you have to rethink a way
of doing those slashes
and make it, the way I do it
I guess is you'd make
a proportion
based on the number of observations
you could see totally in total
across the churn and the number you've missed
I guess, so say if you're only
observing one
one vault or one chain that has a hundred let's say a hundred transactions and you've hit 99 of
those you've got 99 but if you've got all the chains and you've done a million let's say and
you've hit 999 000 you've got the same 990 000 sorry you've got the same proportion there if that
makes sense it's kind of yeah yeah that makes sense. It's kind of spittable.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
And then if you have an...
Okay, let's say you have a chain,
because you know, like, Gaia hard forks
every 13 seconds, right?
So, like, if you have a chain
that's just on the layer one itself
that really sucks,
if a node who's running a bunch of chains,
if they get a shit ton of slash points
on that chain,
those slash points affect the rewards
from other chains, right?
Is my understanding correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So that also brings in the question
that the layer one actually has to be performing well.
And if you're a node operator
and you support,
try and support as many chains you can,
and the game theory could,
you could see chains get very unpopular very quickly.
Yeah.
Particularly the harder ones.
Yes, interesting, interesting.
Man, a lot of things to think about.
It's a really interesting conversation.
Coke, I want you to clip this part, okay?
Because I want to show some people this is an interesting conversation.
Maybe they've already considered this, but definitely...
There's something definitely here to figure out,
because the game theory does change, I think, significantly
if you have opt-in chain clients.
Not necessarily in a bad way.
The whole churning is
changed.
You mentioned that point about slash points.
That also needs to be
thought about and the best way
forward for that, too, which I hadn't really
thought about before. Could you break that down
a little bit for the audience so they know exactly what you're talking about
when it comes to slash points and churning?
Currently, nodes get churned out of the network.
So by churned out, I mean not part of the active sets.
They're not observing transactions on the 4 Chain network.
That happens for three different reasons.
So one being currently you're the lowest amount bonded.
You're the oldest node, or you've got the most what they call slash points,
which come from basically not performing your duties properly so if you haven't observed a transaction if you
miss four chain blocks so you're not signing blocks you accrue slash points so the node with
the most amount of slash points gets churned out so it basically means they sit out of one cycle
worth of observations so they don't earn any rewards during that period so if you've got
the situation where you're observing fewer volts you're going to have fewer slash points which
means you're not going to be churned out based on those slash points where you have to do a very
very bad job of observing that single volt right so yeah that needs to be thought about on how that
works with um opt-in chains They may have already thought about it.
Yeah. The 4Chain Chads.
Yeah, they typically are pretty good
about game theory, but this is
a significant...
It's a big change
for ThorTain. Super big change.
I know the people on the app
layer. Do you follow the
app layer at all that much?
A little bit. I'm part of the engineering call on Thursday, so I hear some overview on there, but I'm not completely clued up with it.
Yeah, the one thing, and I'm not sure, the opinions vary on this, they are worried to some extent,
like if you have the app layer and you have secured assets on there, right?
If you have the app layer and you have secured assets on there, right?
And then maybe ThorChain decides that you have, you know, opt-in chain clients, like one chain, you know, gets the boot.
You know, what do you do with those secured assets, right, in there?
And so they think, well, you know, this is a potential, you know, risk in some way.
I've given a lot of thought.
I can see i can see
that point for sure honestly it's hard for me to figure out but um i guess it depends as well
because then you have to factor in because if we have the app layer right and okay let's say the
volume then well that doesn't make sense because on the app layer there should be volume happening on
14 base layer as well if the assets are being used so so if a if a chain on the base layer is
not getting a lot of throughput it sucks on the app layer too i think by extension of that so
yes okay so i guess that works out yeah okay interesting conversation gosh dang i didn't
think we're getting into the nuances.
Yeah. A lot of things to think about. Sure. Sure. Okay. Very cool. Well,
we're gone over an hour guys. If anyone has any questions or like to come up, please, you know,
go keep, you don't mind posting those the link one more time for people. I'm Andy, but we've had
a lot of people, you know, a lot of cheering for you, Andy, and your team.
I think it's great what you're doing.
Is there anything else that you feel like we've missed at all or that you want to cover about Liquify?
I'm going to quickly check the chats here,
see if there's anything that I've missed.
Yeah, I think we've covered everything that I can think of
off the top of my head.
Yeah, kind of gone through on who we are,
how we're helping 4Chain, what we do external to 4Chain.
So, yeah.
Okay, yeah, I agree.
Okay, yeah, I agree. I'm looking at all the chats.
I'm not seeing people, a lot of praising, right?
So guys, we'll give it a few minutes if anyone wants to come up and chat.
But okay.
But in the meantime, Andy, tell us a little about something.
What do you like to do in your free time?
Like humanize yourself, you know?
Do you wear a medieval arbor and go fight? Or do you like to skydive? What do you like to do in your free time? Like humanize yourself. Do you wear a medieval arbor and go fight?
Or do you like to skydive?
What do you like to do?
So I like to do a lot of hiking.
I do a lot of hiking around the UK.
I'm a big walker.
And then I like doing what normal guys like doing,
playing video games, watching sports, that kind of thing.
I'm a big petrol head as well, so I like going and watching motorsport.
I do that quite often in the summertime, go watch like cars and motorbikes.
I used to be, I used to kind of do a semi-pro motorcycling back in the day.
Oh, really?
I still like doing that.
Yeah, I haven't done it in a while.
Well, you're getting older, right?
It gets scary.
Yeah, when you fall off, it hurts a lot more now yeah dude like i now think like if i trip and i hit my head i like that could be it now you know what i mean like when i was like 16 17 18 dude i
just like fall down and just get like bounce right back up like exactly like nothing happened you
know now i'm like now you're out of action for a week yeah i look at the ground like that's a long
way down you know what i mean um i did i loveports here i don't i forget what you call but it's the racing like i've seen
the one guy that's like um what do you call it's on tip my tongue but uh really fast cars and dude
you're like your racetracks are like so muddy i love the guys that they're like racing and they've
got their helmet on and they've got like these plastic um yeah and they just rip them off right
i was in the video of the guy he's like it's so
muddy he's like rip rip rip and he's just like hauling ass down the dude i was like that's badass
like that's some cool racing we have nascar in america it doesn't even come close to as cool
as that like that's like going left don't you yeah you just go left like for hours you know
what i mean i mean the wrecks are pretty epic i'm not gonna lie but that's the only reason why it's
entertaining i can imagine the atmosphere going to a live but that's the only reason why it's entertaining.
I can imagine the atmosphere going to a live NASCAR race
would be pretty fun as well then.
Yeah, it's pretty quick.
I mean, like, I've been to, like, some drag races.
I have not been to a NASCAR race, but, you know,
when you stand close to the train,
when you have those things screaming by it, you know.
Blows your ears out.
Yeah, it's incredible.
Like, it's stupidly fast.
Like, when you're watching TV, it's like, it's nothing.
You know what I mean? So, yeah. Well, cool, man. When you're watching TV, it's like, it's nothing. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Well, cool, man.
You sound like a dude, man, so I love it.
We just got a regular guy being badass,
just making Thor Chain great, you guys.
I love that so much.
I'm not seeing any requests that come up, man,
so I think you've done a great job.
I think that always correlates.
When someone articulates their position well and is good,
we've got no problem, man.
Andy, do you have any final words before we wrap this thing up?
No, just thanks for having me on.
It's been good fun.
Hey, thanks for coming on, buddy.
It's been great.
Hey, guys, just as a reminder, we will be having again Chad Bareford on Thursday.
Kenton is traveling, so he will not be able to join us for Thursday.
So maybe I'll try and get another guest on there.
We'll see.
Maybe I get some on the app layer.
I don't know yet. But next Saturday, we gonna have a btc um btc og join us adam
bitcoin very funny guy um really interesting character i've been interacting with in a lot
few days so i'm really excited to talk to him so guys please check out that um if you have any
teams out there who want to be on the show and chat what you're doing you know saturday we
dedicate it to you know promoting you and learning more about you.
So you are more than welcome.
Just give us a DM, reach out, and we will get you on here.
And always remember, guys, everything we say here does not constitute any financial advice whatsoever.
It is just for entertainment purposes and education purposes.
That's why we're here.
Andy, my man, thank you so much for joining us.
If you get done with your Thor node, if a few months go on a buy
and you want to do an update on the services you provide or whatever,
just let us know, man.
We'll do this again, all right?
Definitely, yeah.
Thanks.
Have a nice weekend, though.
Likewise, brother.
You too.
All right, guys.
Take care, everyone.
Bye, everybody.
