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THORChain UPDATE AND ALPHA: THORSday with Chad Barraford
Recorded: Feb. 26, 2026 Duration: 2:07:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Bitcoin decks. You can swap Bitcoin with 10 different blockchains across 39 different pools,
40 different pools. We got to edit that. That's my bad. Sorry about that, guys.
Without using bridges or wrap tokens. Check it out at swap.thorchain.org. Swap.thorchain.org.
Anyone in the world can use Thorchain. There is no account to open, no KYC required. And ThorChain has two tokens, RUNE and TCY. The fees for swapping on
ThorChain are paid in RUNE, and that's where the yield comes from. The fees are deducted from the
swap, so you do not need to own RUNE to trade on ThorChain. Very important. You can trade no matter
what. 10% of the protocol's revenue goes to TCY token holders. Remember to stake your TCY tokens in order to collect the
yield. There are no inflationary block rewards. Therefore, the yield is real money paid by real
users. Pretty awesome, you guys. Rune is also deflationary as 5% of the revenue is burned.
ThorChain is turning into a full layer one with the ability to create smart contracts on it,
similar to Ethereum. This is the app layer called Regera and it is an active development you guys very exciting if you need
help with thor chain in general join the thor chain community discord and telegram links links for
those are on thor chain.org or you can join the show and ask us in real time we do that as well
you guys please follow all our social media, Facebook, Instagram, ThorChainContact on TikTok.
We need 1,000 followers to start live streaming
on those platforms.
Please, if you don't even have an account,
just make it follow all of the social media.
It's very important that we get this done.
And always remember, guys,
this podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only
and does not constitute financial investment
or legal advice. And with that out of
the way, you guys, we are going to start the show. I hope everyone's having a great week.
I'm having a great week, guys. Just a little update on Solana. It is currently paused. It
was paused by Nine Realms. We're just waiting to update. You know, when you have new chain,
these little quirky things happen. So they are working the problem right now. So once we know
more, we'll definitely communicate that. But I'm'm gonna go ahead and kick it to my main man kenton how you doing
today bro good man i'm actually sorry guys i'm just gonna message chad see if he's coming um
uh you coming to the space well if that's if if he needs a little time we've got it because i know
you do definitely have a bigger update for us.
I do.
That you want to break down.
So maybe it actually works out well.
Yeah.
Well, what's happening, Chad would be here too to hear it.
So, yeah, I've got to let you guys know I gave Reggie his notice.
And so he won't be working with us anymore.
It's just not working out.
And, you know, giving him some chances.
I've been trying to, you know,
it's been kind of a long time coming now.
I was chatting with Denny and Coke a little bit before the show,
and I probably could have done this sooner, you guys,
but just kind of the way things are shaking out.
And, you know, I was trying was trying to you know to not do work
and get him to do it right hire somebody else to do this and just going going through all the you
know setting everything up and doing everything like I'm the one getting everything done I'm
pushing this stuff forward I'm the one working nights and weekends and it's like I may as well
just do it you know instead of trying to train someone else up and have them you know
take over and be responsible whatever you know to get someone to really care like like i do
like it's just you get to we have to pay him several hundred grand like you know four or
five hundred grand a year type thing to get a real cmo to really like you know get into it
and um you know and even then that person is gonna take time to get caught up so yeah I'm I've been
pushing this stuff forward I got the relationships with Denny and coke the guys running social media
you know I've been managing all those all those people and and really like all the the marketers
I've talked to a lot of them it just they just you know other than to, a lot of them, other than Reggie, a lot of their ideas and stuff are just like, oh, we'll outsource SIS and hire someone for that and whatever.
And it's like, well, I don't need to hire someone for that someone to hire someone else.
I can just do all that.
And so that's basically what I have been doing.
So I may as well just take it over, just do all that right and so that's basically what i have been doing um so i may as well just
you know just take it over just you know do it properly um and uh um you know i like to think
i'm i'm pretty honest with you guys so you know if i'm if i'm stumbling if i'm not like something
isn't working i don't know how to do it like it's not about i'm not gonna sit there and spin my
wheels or just like you know not tell anyone right anyone, right? So I'll keep going, doing what I can. And yeah, you know, then, you know, start to look to
outsource or hire or whatever. So right now, kind of what Scorch and I have talked about is just,
this will be good. Just freeze up some cash, right? So we're not spending the money on them.
just freeze up some cash, right?
So we're not spending the money on them.
We can, you know, some of the people
that we're outsourcing stuff to right now,
we can give them a bit more work,
pay them instead.
And, you know, just see how well I can do with this.
And say, like, when we start doing paid ads and whatever,
say I'm just not finding anything that works, right?
I just can't, you know, crack the nut. Then then at least i can go i like we've already tried things we know what
is what's not working and then we go to like try to hire someone find someone to help us we can say
look this is everything we've done and then that's kind of part of the interview is like
do they have any feedback like oh well you should do this and we can try that and blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? And as opposed to just them hiring somebody to try all those things that I could have done myself anyway.
Right. So so me doing stuff should it's kind of the 80 20 rule. Right. So, you know, I do 20 percent of the work.
That should get 80 percent there. there right and then maybe bring someone
else to get us you know that little bit extra and um um so and if we do that then that next person
maybe it's like a bit more of a junior role where they can like train up right and i then it's a nice
uh transition from me to them um but right now the way it was working
is like i'm expecting reggie to do stuff and then it's not getting done so i'm doing i'm doing other
things and because he's not getting done then we're behind so yeah so i feel like the website
i feel like we're a good six weeks behind and um um yeah it, it should be done by now. So yeah, guys, this, so this is good.
This things I think will move cleaner, uh, smoother.
Um, like I said, I've got the relationships with everyone that there's about several people
between the front end, people like you, Danny, people running social media channels or SEO,
like all this stuff.
Um, um, so it's just easier. And yeah, I mean, I'll stop there,
see, Denny, if you have any questions or the community has asked anything.
I've seen things from the community. I think it just makes sense. I mean, you know,
you just make a tighter team, faster execution. You know, I think everyone sees that you're
constantly pushing the needle forward and that's what we need so i think i think most people get it man um especially you made your
post in discord and all i saw was pretty much 99 positive uh responses so no big deal man i
wouldn't i wouldn't think too much worry i wouldn't think too much more about it unless someone says
something yeah um yeah good yeah it's this is part of it. Like, I do want it, like, I'm like, I want stuff done now, right? And it's not. And I'm like, I know I can move faster on this. So, so the other good thing is, maybe just tease you guys a bit. There is something I got into works, which might cost around the same as Reggie, what we were paying Reggie.
And it'd be way better to allocate that money to this idea
than what we were paying Reggie.
And so fingers crossed that can go through.
I think everyone will agree it's a great idea.
So I know I'm being coy, but I don't i want to say anything and like i'm working on all
kinds of things in the background i don't know what's gonna uh materialize or not right and so
i'd rather wait till something's actually gonna happen before really bringing it up um um yeah so
so yeah so just so you guys know so i do sometimes you may not see things, but I'm definitely talking and working on stuff.
And, you know, the other reason too, I don't want to say too much publicly because it could just affect my negotiations, right?
You know, trying to get a good price and whatnot.
So, yeah.
yeah um yeah this is so this is this is after the site is done like the home page that you know
thorachain.org um then i can start focusing on like like paid advertising like how do we actually
like get people to the site and um i've been i've kind of got a rough draft of a write-up i'm going
to do uh like a blog post for you guys.
So I can really, you know, when you write,
you actually really crystallize your thoughts.
And so I can put it all down, get it all in order,
and remind everybody what I'm working on, you know,
what the plan is and what to expect.
So, yeah, but it all starts with our website, an STO, right?
I'm trying to build a giant funnel to this.
So I know this is a pyramid, but it's almost like an inverse pyramid.
So in the funnel, this is the base, right?
So I've got to get this base done of the funnel,
and then we can start focusing on all the other stuff
on top to get us into the site.
STO is coming along.
They pushed through some updates.
The new font and colors and everything
to make it match the new front end is done.
Might still be, there's still some tweaks they got to do,
you know, part of the updating stuff.
You know, it's a little handful,
little small errors,
so don't 100% judge them.
But if you do see them,
please point it out.
I tweaked and updated
the streaming swap settings.
So hopefully they make a lot more sense.
The one I'm unsure about,
I actually need help from the community because I have to admit, I don't know. I don't understand.
I can't figure it out. On streaming swaps, if we set the interval to zero, does that make it
like an instant market order? Like it bypasses streaming and just goes straight to sell.
And I think that might have been how it worked before,
but now with the swap advanced queue for like rapid swaps,
I think that behavior might change.
I'm not sure. I don't know.
There's another reason I was hoping Chad would be here.
And I've asked in Discord.
So that I need to figure out
what Xero does so that we can
fix it properly on the front end.
And instead of calling a streaming
stops we call the t-wop right so that um you know we got to talk we can't talk inside baseball
right with the torch chain community right that we have we have to imagine somebody's coming here
for the first time in their life they've never heard their train before thor chain before
um at least a t-wop maybe they've heard that, but they can Google the TWOP, right?
And, like, there's all kinds of information on it.
But in the pop-ups, in the eyes, I mentioned it.
These are called streaming swaps on ThorChain.
So if somebody's going to go dig into ThorChain docs, they can find it.
Limit orders, that page needs to be tweaked a little bit.
Just a couple little bugs.
And then we're going to work on,
we're going to prioritize next the dashboard for wallets to integrate ThorChain.
So I started a group chat with cake wallet and the unstoppable
guys um vic and vic from cake wallet wallet and ibeck from unstoppable they're they're on friendly
terms with each other um and so hopefully we get something going there and we get Cake Wallet to turn on Doorchain. And talking to Ibex about this, he's like, well, you know, technically Unstoppable is a wallet, Cake is a wallet.
You know, they may not want us, Cake Wallet does, may not want their competition does helping them with the integration, right?
So Ibex, okay, let's just, let's prioritize and get the dashboard done let's get um um
the dashboard for partners and basically it's just a way to create a thor name a maya name um and set
the affiliate fee um and their and the address their address to to receive payment and so um
instead of you know needing help from the unstoppable guys
or having to do things manually uh just be like a simple interface for them to go do it so
i've told me you could do it in a week we'll see this is this is typical devs right telling
telling me how long it'll take so um so hopefully next week by the time we talk it'll be done
um so hopefully next week by the time we talk it'll be done um but that'll be nice because
it'll be i know when native swap in integrated the thor chain api it was they had a bit of a
but it was not comfortable you know they had to struggle a little bit so um um they got it done
they did it but um that'd be nice to this, just make it easier for our partners.
So yeah, that's the next thing we're working on there.
I think, I do think STO is good enough
to start promoting, right?
To start like selling, you know,
doing paid ads or whatever, drive traffic to it.
You know, we'll still keep updating it
and making it better.
But as far as placing swaps are concerned,
I think we're doing pretty good.
I'm not aware of any issues anyway.
I don't know if Sam Yap and Koitser are dealing with it in the Discord or not.
But I think we've ironed out a lot of the bugs there.
Hey, Chad.
Hey, how's it going?
How's it going, man?
Good. Sorry, I got my going? How's it going, man? Good.
Sorry, my answer.
No worries at all.
Glad to have you, man.
Awesome.
And you actually joined...
I'll wait for his headphones to come off.
Yeah.
Well, it's a good time to ask him that question
about the streaming spots, right?
So, pretty good.
No, maybe it is.
Yeah.
Sorry, Chad.
I'll put you right on the spot as soon as you get here.
Can you hear?
It's all coming out of the Mac Pro Pro.
They change it once you get into a thing.
He sounds funny to me.
Yeah, he sounds robotic and really slow.
Man.
Yeah, I can't hear you brother okay yeah he says he's gonna come back i could i could i'm not read that one
i think that's my internet i just i'm hard i'm hardwired in now i okay i got off my wi-fi
um hopefully my internet will be fine now you've been so so far so good, man. I like it. Yeah.
I'll do some speed tests, and it's like my Wi-Fi is almost half of being hard connected.
It's like, holy smokes.
Yeah.
Usually you look a little pixelated to me. Now you look like a handsome man named Kenton, so it works out.
Oh, awesome.
I'll take it.
I got better looking with better internet.
You did.
There you go. Improve your internet. You did. There you go.
Improve your internet.
You get better looking, people.
That's how that works.
Chad's coming.
I hope that's better.
There you go.
Dude, you sound beautiful.
Beautiful, Chad.
Sorry about that, guys.
I was giving people a bit of an update on the front end, on the interface.
And I think I did a pretty good improvement
there on the streaming swap settings. And on one of them for the – to choose the
interval, like how many blocks between a swap, I have zero. And my understanding before – well,
the way I understood it or I thought I it, is that if you have a zero
interval, that turns it into an immediate order, like a market order. But I'm not 100% sure.
And so I think Koitsu mentioned that now with the advanced swap queue, putting zero in interval actually does something else now.
So yeah, maybe you can help me.
I apologize.
I tried going through the docs.
I tried to figure it out. No, no, no, it's fine.
It's perfectly fine.
So like the interval typically would have been one in most cases, which just says like
how many blocks do we wait until we do another sub swap, right?
That's the question
that this is basically answering and so one is just like every block do a sub swap and just kind
of like streaming swap your way through the thing right but with um rapid swaps more so than anything
else you could get multiple transactions or multiple sub swaps within a single block right
and so i wanted to make sure there was a way that you could opt in and out of that system, right?
So like when adding rapid swaps,
I wanted to make sure that like,
if you didn't want to do a rapid swap,
you just didn't like the behavior or whatever,
like just give you that flexibility to use the old system.
So like if you put in one,
it just does a trade every swap
and it doesn't allow you to do a rapid swap in that scenario. It just one trade per block right so you miss out on the rapid swaps functionality
in that scenario if you put zero you're just like give me like the fastest speed possible
which for right now it's still just one in the current moment because rapid swaps is turned off
it's not an active feature so if you were to put one right now i think what would happen uh i have to look at the code to be sure but like i think what happened it just it would
just default back to a from a zero to a one i believe um but once rapid swaps is on it'll it'll
do like multiple trades per block in that scenario okay so won't be so So with rapid swaps on, let's plan for it being on, right?
Yeah.
Looking forward.
When we choose zero for the interval,
it'll just do multiple swaps within a block instead of one swap per block.
It'll trade basically as fast as it can muster, right?
However fast it can trade, it'll trade that fast, looking for the fastest speed possible.
But if you put a 1 in there, you're just saying, like, just do one subtrade per block so that we go, like, a little bit slower.
Okay.
Okay, so then my understanding is correct.
If we choose 0, it sells as fast as possible.
It might still take five blocks
to do it yeah but okay it depends on like the r how how rb the arbor's arbs are right like how
much liquidity are they putting in intra block like in the middle of the block so to speak to allow
multiple trades to happen in a single block but if there's no arms are being you know in that
within the context of a single within a block right then it's just gonna like fall back it
should fall back to just like every block doing one trade which is what it
does right right now okay it's making some notes for myself yeah yeah that's
the expected behavior of course rapid swaps hasn't been turned on yet it could
have issues or could have bugs with it so you know be weary in the
beginning for any new feature being rapid swaps or anything else for that matter you know so then
with rapid swaps turned off um if somebody enters zero an interval it'll just it'll uh it'll actually
just change it to one i think so one block okay so. That's fine. Like, it's just, at least it's,
it's the conservative option.
It's not going to like make it worse.
Yes.
I mean,
that obviously like we don't want to make things worse.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
my genius brain tells me we don't want things to go worse.
That's a hard thing to figure out.
But that's,
that's why I've been,
I've been hesitant to turn on rapid swaps to begin with.
Even if the
code's been there for months now technically it's like live in the in the chain we could just flip
it on right now if it felt felt like it but i was weary about the scenario where we trade too many
times in a you know within a block and there's no counterweight or there's no nothing correct
in the price per sub swap that you're doing I didn't want to give you a worse price execution than if you just did one
every block, you know, like that. So I was just trying to be cautious of that.
Yeah, gotcha. Cool. All right. Thank you.
I'm glad you're here. So guys, I want to go over logos
with you. I made a little slideshow to show.
So give me a second here. I'm going to share my screen.
Did I do screen or presentation? Maybe.
I don't know what's the best way to do this.
I don't know what's the best way to do this.
Yeah.
There you go.
There you go.
Does this work?
Yep.
Works good to me.
Okay.
Okay.
So I want to bring this up to you guys and the community before we get too far along with it.
So where do I start?
Let me go back.
Let me see.
There we go.
So here's our current logos, right?
And, you know, there's been lots of talk over the last several months about rebranding and, you know, we got to do something different.
I'm of the opinion that we should just fix, try fixing our brand first before like, you know, throwing everything away
and starting from scratch. And, you know, one of the reasons people want to, you know, rebrand
is that we got Thor Swap and Thor Wallet, you know, using the same logos. It's confusing,
right? You know, who is which, which is what, you know, all that kind of stuff, right? And
so I've been thinking about it, you know, we've which is what you know all that kind of stuff right and um um
so i've been thinking about it you know we've been internally the marketing team we've been talking
about this for months kind of and um you know i was pushing for tour the community like let's not
let's just stick with what we have and try and fix it first and um as far as thor swap and thor wallet
And as far as ThorSwap and ThorWallet, I think it just depends on how you look at it.
So, you know, everyone's looking at it as a negative.
You know, they're copying our logo.
It's bad.
It's not good.
And we're not the same and this and that, blah, blah.
And I understand that point of view.
But I think look on the bright side.
The fact they want to use that logo
means they ascribe value to ThorChain
and the ThorChain brand.
And, you know, if we should want people to be using our logo.
It's like the Nike Swoosh.
Like, you know, some people get that tattooed on their arm.
And like, you know you've made it as a brand
when people are getting your logo tattooed
right and so we should want everyone to use the lightning bolt logo we should want people to
you know emulate us and copy right that's how we get recognition so um you know i don't think it's
actually that bad that thor wallet and and Thor Swap are using it.
And what we can do is maybe just differentiate ourselves just a little bit.
And so this is what we've come up with.
This is current, right?
the style that already exists it's been around for a while same with this lightning bolt
This is the style that already exists. It's been around for a while.
Same with this lightning bolt.
and you know what we're thinking is for the rune token and tcy is just just basically copy it you
know we've got you know rune is obviously green we've got the same green here from from the the
fading and then same with the blue here blue for tcy and at least it looks like these all belong belong together
and um because right now like these three logos they just like these could be three completely
different companies right complete three completely different uh products separately
there's no relation between them um at least with this, we have some relation.
And the lightning bolt is our logo.
Don't get me wrong, guys.
I actually like the R in the rear.
I think it's cool.
But this lightning bolt is it.
This is for Thorchain.
And I don't know if you can see.
I'm sharing this screen.
Can you see my Google search here?
No, we just see your little rosy.
All right, give me a second.
Let me go back.
What am I sharing?
Maybe I should share my screen.
That might probably be better.
Or you can share the window, and then it'll do all your browsers.
Does it? Get rid of the porn then it'll do all your browsers. Does it?
Get rid of the porn first before you do that.
Yeah.
Can you see this?
Yes.
So if you go Google search Rune token logo, it's the lightning bolt.
Yeah.
And you've got the R here.
This is interesting. I've got the R here. And this is interesting.
I've never seen that before.
But if you go to most sites, this is the – this is pretty much what you see the most often.
There's a lightning bolt and, you know, the green on black.
And so just coming back to here, the other thing is with the um if we go backwards there you go
so if we want to get away from um thor swap and thor wallet you know they're using black right so
we can you know just avoid using black and that helps help separate us and be a bit different
using black and that helps help separate us and be a bit different.
The other thing is on the new doorchain.org site, we're moving away from the black background
because it just, you know, white elicits trust. So we're moving to a white background,
trying to get away from the black because it implies like money laundering and stealing and bad, you know, whatever negative, right?
So we're trying to elicit trust and safety when people come to ThorChain, right?
And so the colors just, you know, pop a bit better on the white versus, you know, if we stick with the black logos.
So, yeah, I wanted to bring this up with you guys.
You know, this is what we're working on i've showed it to probably a dozen people now most people agree i think it makes sense but i don't
want to push forward with this unless you know we get broad support you know maybe there's some
constructive feedback like i'm i'm really sensitive i don't want to do like a cracker barrel, you know, Jaguar and you guys and, you know, piss everyone off.
So, yeah, maybe I'll stop there. Chad or Denny, you guys have any comments?
Denny, I'm curious to get your thoughts first, actually.
Well, I think it's right. OK, the first thing is, if you have black black it does elicit negativity it does and so
i think the white transition is an interesting play i mean because you have to think people
are going to come to thor chain for the first time how are they emotionally going to interpret
the logo that stuff matters i mean it's i know some of us think it's silly but it that matters
right you want something that's it's pure it's's good, it's inviting, you know, just how it is.
And I think it is an interesting way to delineate ourselves from people who use a similar... I think
that shape, like you said, Kenton, I think that's a good argument, compelling argument. I know like
Thor Swap, Thor Walt, they're gonna use it, but that shape just being more recognizable, that's
probably not such a bad thing, right? I mean, we're increasing our mindshare, so I do like it.
And then, yes, I do think if we do make the assets more homogenized like this,
it's hard for me to remove all my knowledge about Thorchain
and pretend I'm seeing this for the first time, right?
But if I try to do that, I would look at Rune, Tcy, and Thorchain,
and I think I would be confused i
would not understand the relationship and i do think it is clever that you took half of the hue
from the original logo and just assign that as a total hue for two the two assets of thor chain so
thor chain as these two colors and then you take those two hues and you make that i think that's
pretty clever i think that's an interesting way ultimately i think for chain this industry is just a comp it's a complicated thing but from my opinion this does seem like a
more intuitive way to get people understand and bring them into the project i'll stop there one
of the interesting things is because of the color choice it like looking at the document here it
feels like rune plus tcy equals thor chain because you get the green you get the
blue put them two together and then you get the thor chain logo on the top there it kind of get
like that's the that's kind of like the uh impression that that i'm trying to get as a
first-time viewer who doesn't know anything about thor chain rune or tcui like how do i interpret
this you know um which is you know i think that's that's not necessarily bad or incorrect or anything just just like kind of observation
to share that's the way I was looking at it too yeah yeah I do agree with with
Patriot about that like the darker colors you know a little bit heavier a
little this little that like I like I think the lightness is actually kind of a positive thing.
It just kind of makes the brand feel a bit lighter and more engaging in that kind of way.
So I think I like that aspect to it.
Overall, I think it's generally like a really good direction.
The only other thought that I had, and I've been wanting to play with it,
and I haven't had the time because I'm pretty busy with other things, but like, is that like, it'd be interesting to use the R and use the Y of Tcy as like a subscript, you know, if that makes sense to like have a cutout R, like a cutout white R, like a subscript to the Thorchain logo, and a cutout
like a little tiny Y next to the Thorchain logo on the blue one. Like down here or something you
mean? Yeah, like to the lower right, like a little small thing, because then it becomes like,
then it becomes the R is like, or the Y is like, is sub of thor chain like thor chain the big protocol thing right it's
like that that's what the whole protocol is and then part of that or a smaller part of that is
ruin the small part of that is tcy and then by doing that it also leaves it open for like
if you wanted to do like secured assets for like bitcoin and ethereum and like you know what other tokens you have a way
of differentiating you know an infinite number of tokens so you have rune tcy secured asset bitcoin
secured asset ethereum secured asset blah blah and you can just create as many of these logos
as you want for as many tokens you want rolling into the future because when we designed the
fortune logo and the room logo like like secured assets didn't even exist at that time or TCY for that matter, of course.
And so like we're thinking about building our brand or designing our brand in a way
that is flexible enough to move into the future, not just like addressing what we have today,
which is TCY and Rune, but also having it be flexible so that as we move more into like
Rugee, for example, right, they're going to use a lot of secured assets and they can use those logos to represent oh this is not bitcoin you're trading
with it is a secured asset bitcoin so it's not conflating or confusing uh customers in that kind
of way and that's the same thing with the uis within like the swap interface right making it
clear that you're not swapping for bitcoin, you're getting, you know, secured asset Bitcoin in this scenario.
And having that clear delineation between those two things,
it's just really, I think, would be beneficial for clarity
and how people are trading.
Like, when I'm using the Bitcoin logo, I'm getting real Bitcoin, right?
Yeah.
Maybe, actually, maybe I'll pull it up here quick.
So, like, right now on the interface,
when you click on, when you're searching for a token uh look up ethereum so i don't know how well you guys can
you do i need to make this bigger no we can see it it's okay it's okay it's okay
yeah um so you see base.
We have base logo there, BNB chain.
Then Ethereum is just Ethereum.
So right now, this is how it looks.
We can always play with this if we need to.
But this is how it looks right now on the front end.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's conceptually, what you're doing there is conceptually similar to what I'm kind of referring to, at least.
You're doing it a little bit of a different way, which, to be honest, the way you're doing it is actually a really nice way.
If I were to swap to, like, a secured asset Bitcoin in your interface, A, can I even do that?
And B, if I can, what would that look like?
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's a really good question.
I'm glad you brought it up, Chax.
I actually hadn't really thought about it.
Yeah, because we should form a template that makes it intuitive for the,
you know, we don't do it for today.
We think ahead in the future. And so if we can make an intuitive template now, then people, yes.
Yeah.
I'm envisioning something like this so that
if somebody types in ThorChain
it's going to pull up all the
secured assets too.
And then it'll have this
logo saying it's ThorChain.
That's a good way of doing it.
And then we have
we still need to create
a unique logo
for that secured asset.
Which, to be fair, if you have the little ThorChain logo in the bottom right-hand corner,
you do have Ferruji and TCEY there on your screen,
and you just have the Bitcoin logo in the background instead of the TCEY circle or whatever.
I think that's clear enough, you know,
and it's in my opinion that is.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, let me.
All right, cool.
So then, but, you know, so whatever, I agree with you.
We should probably come up with some ideas for secured assets
and see how that relates to these logos
and make sure it makes sense.
It could just be like what you were just doing there.
You just have a regular old Bitcoin logo
and in the bottom right-hand corner,
you got a little Thorchain logo.
Oh, so it actually just like BTCB?
Yeah, instead of the B&B chain logo,
you're already kind of doing it, right?
But just replace the B&B chain logo
with the Thorchain logo and boom. Yeah it but this is okay so this is but this is great for our interface
on sto do you um do you think these tote these secured assets we're're going to want to create CoinMarketCap and CoinGecko pages for them?
I don't think so currently, but that would change.
We've talked in the past, amongst the devs and whatnot,
about exporting our secured assets to other chains,
to Ethereum, to IBC chains, to whatever.
And there's value in that, and there's some value and And there's value in that.
And there's some value and some value in that.
If you get to that place where you start exporting those assets to other chains,
then it makes sense to have it be on CoinMarketCap or CoinGecko or like these kinds of things
because it's like an asset that people are holding and trading.
And it's engaging with other blockchains and ethereum and you know whatever
else out there base whatever um then it makes sense to have cmc like i said but before that
point i wouldn't say i wouldn't think that it did all right then i don't yeah so i'm not going to
worry about it then um i think that'll be a tomorrow problem um we solve our own interface problem, how it's going to display. Okay.
Okay, cool.
Okay, anything else?
I think that's a good, it's an improvement, right?
Let's improve it and dial it in, right?
See how it goes and just dial it in gradually. I am sorry if you guys can hear,
someone decided to do construction just right now outside my house.
Sorry if you didn't hear that, but I think it's a great improvement.
So I'll post this in the marketing channel on Discord.
People want to talk about it there.
I'll post it on Twitter too.
So I'll just get some feedback from everybody.
But yeah, I really don't want this to be my way or the highway, guys.
I want to at least get general buy-in. There's always going to be my way or the highway guys, right? I want to get at least
get general buy-in. You know, there's always gonna be somebody who complains, but you know,
it's the vast majority of you guys. Everyone's cool with it. Then great. You know, the last
thing we need right now is to start a frigging any drama, right? About, you know, changing these,
right? It should all be something we all kind of support. So, okay. Yeah. If you give the
opportunity for people
to have their input, that pretty much always resolves any potential drama. If you would have
just pushed it without consulting, people would have been like, you didn't include me. Yeah.
That's how it is. That's what I want to bring it up now, as opposed to just, you know, doing it on
the, on the website and surprising everyone, like just, you know, bring it up. Right. Okay. All right, cool.
I'll stop sharing.
All right, thanks, guys.
Yeah, no worries.
That's good for me.
I don't know, Chad,
if you want to... Well, I do have one question that
people want to know. A lot of people want to
know, Chad, Solana just got paused.
I'm pretty sure it's from the Nine Real that they're testing some things did you have any information
about solana or anything like that currently or yeah no it was just there's a bug in the
chain client for solana that um um that it triggered a a double spend on a on a um on a
it was like it was like eight dollars you know it was like nothing the pool itself is
only like 2k deep intentionally so just so we could have time to test it out because this is
obviously a new chain and it's not like a fork of you know you another utxo chain or another evm
chain when we've you know we've got hardening code that's been doing that for years this is a
brand new chain client and a bit like structurally different chain like chain client that we've seen
in the past.
So it's more complicated.
So it needs a little bit more like kind of runtime, so to speak, to to find some of these kind of like nuanced issues that aren't clear or obvious to anybody writing the code or even reviewing it.
And so we just found a small bug and we just got to like get a patch, which we're plugging up with that patch out.
We're probably going to put that patch out, I think, tomorrow probably.
I think tomorrow probably.
And when the nodes, you know, 80% of the nodes adopt the new change,
then we'll probably resume it.
Perfect. Yeah, this is exactly what I've been saying, guys.
I say, you know, we have a new chain.
Expect there to be little nuances, little edge cases, little bugs here and there.
Totally normal. That's why we're responsible.
When we load these pools, we start with a very small amount.
That's how we do it.
So shout out to you and Nine Realms.
That was the main question.
I think I got some saved up here.
But, of course, that was the most recent thing.
Well, okay.
Everyone, Chad, this is just going to be a topic, every space.
What's going on with Huguen?
Hugin, what's the latest, man?
What's the latest, man?
Yeah, Huguen is doing great.
Yeah, Hugin's doing great.
For 3.16, I think Hugin did 40-something merge requests that it made.
That's about almost half.
That's almost exactly half of the code changes in the code base.
It's done by AI now at this point, which is kind of wild, you know, if you think about it uh which is pretty impressive in some ways
it can do a lot more and the thing that's really slowing is like two things one is uh i only have
so many tokens you know to consume and as i mentioned before i'm just using my own personal
max cloud cloud max account uh at least for the time being to you know do what it's trying to do
um so we're already getting so close to maxing myself every week i'm like basically maxing out
the number of tokens that i'm allotted uh but hugan is continuing to like scam for issues and
bugs that it finds and it's finding them along the way and it whenever it finds one it just logs an
issue i you know review them myself
uh and then assign them back to hugan to actually take care of it um so it's very productive uh it's
helping me be much more focused which is really positive because it's taking care of a lot of
monotonous things about making code changes and updating redoing rebasing and CI failures and all sorts of like little things that take small changes that
are to fix it, but it takes an hour to do so, as silly as that sounds. Raise the tokens, yeah.
So it's going very well in that regard. One of the next things, the next major milestone for Huguen that I'm interested in focusing on is monitoring mainnet, which I've mentioned in the past.
But as I think about it more and more and more, it becomes more and more impractical because the amount of data that the network is producing every block, every six seconds, the number of logs, the number of metrics,
is producing every block, every six seconds,
the number of logs, the number of metrics.
Like this is too large to be able to get an LLM
to process that.
We're already maxing out my tokens as is
before we even start having it continuously process
everything that the network is doing.
So I think what I need to do to make this much more practical is that I need to build,
and I'm not even sure exactly what this is quite yet.
I need to spend more time thinking about it.
But I need to build something like very small and lightweight form of an AI,
not like an LLM or even a neural network for that matter, something a lot simpler.
Like maybe it's just like something as like a regex.
Maybe that's something as dumb and simple as that, or maybe
something more complicated. I don't know. Probably
there are different
mathematical equations that you can
apply to streaming
metric data to look
for outliers or irregular
activity or determining
anomalies. And then once that
kind of lighter shim layer
detects something that it perceives
to be unusual or interesting, it doesn't know what that is.
It just says, like, oh, there was this weird error in the logs or the metrics of this data
is, you know, skyrocketing or dropping off in one direction or the other.
And then it would send that data to the LLM, to Hugin, and then Hugin would go, okay, I
see this metric data.
It's really weird that the block time suddenly increased to, you know, 20 seconds a block.
I'm just making something up here.
And then it can grab the block to think, okay, what are the logs for that block?
What are the events that happened within that block?
And, like, start going out and grabbing a bunch of different data to, like,
to fill its context with what actually transpired
and then use you know llms and ai to process all that stuff determine some sort of issue
triage it create a git lab issue maybe even produce a pr right then and there that fixes
whatever the the thing that just happened happened so by the time I even sit down my laptop to investigate like the fix has already been generated autonomously and we can
just of course I have to review it and validate it make sure it's all correct
accurate blah blah blah and then we can more quickly release that update to the
community say oh hey you know block time skyrocketed into 20 seconds because of
this thing whatever that thing was and we can we can just be quicker in our response time
because Hugen's already done a huge chunk of the work,
and it does that more or less in real time.
So I need to spend more time,
more deep thought into this part of it,
but it is something I want to do in the near future.
Yeah.
Kenton, I don't know how you feel,
but I'm seeing this everywhere now online i'm seeing
everyone now talk about ai this is so you were doing this before this i started seeing this
stuff chad now it's everywhere so you were totally ahead of the curve on this one um i just think
i mean this is what everyone's going to start doing right and yeah i'm yeah everybody's going
to start doing this i started talking about this probably nine months ago or something like that.
Like I've been talking about using AI
in this particular context in this particular way
since when I first came back to the project,
you know, nine, 10 months ago,
whatever the hell the number has been.
And even at that time, it was still like,
you can probably go through my tweets
and actually find this.
It's probably somewhere back there.
But like, even at that time,
like I'm not even sure if this is going to work or not.
I'm not even sure this is going to be useful or not.
But it is the direction it seems the market's going to be going
is to building very powerful AIs.
And I want to spend the time now to get ahead of the curve
and build the roads, build the streets,
build the piping, if you want to call it that,
so that as the models get smarter and smarter
and smarter, we've already built the framework to integrate all that kind of latest AI technology
and deploy it right into ThorChain's kind of development process.
And before you know it, I'm just going to be sitting in GitLab and just managing as
like GitLab and just managing as like a PM.
a PM.
We joked last time about being a chaperone.
We joked last time about being a chaperone.
And it's be generating, you know,
code changes without my really directing engagement
other than just like commenting and asking,
hey, do this, do this, and then fix this.
And then it gets done.
And I'm like, cool, that looks great.
Approve, merged, carry on.
Nice.
Right.
And the thing that gets me excited, guys is okay i think the big hiccup
for thort chain has just been you know we well we our first principles are solid right but that
includes complexity like having our own native pools and all the swap logic and bifrost and all
this stuff and consensus and blah blah blah right and but here's the thing like since ai tools
everyone's going to be using to improving their code I think this is where our first principles really shine
and it's going to lead to
increased iteration on our part
we can now ship so much more
and harden the code so much faster
and if our first principles are more sound than ours
which in my opinion they are
this just means
our competitive advantage just becomes more and more
crystallized, I don't know how you guys feel but that's kind of the way
I'm interpreting it, right? We we're 700 000 lines of code so
if we can use ai to like make this easier for you f yes you know what i mean let's go lfg
yeah absolutely at minimum it has to be done right because there's there's i don't believe
i don't believe in this whole ai is going to to make us all obsolete and people are going to be starving in the streets.
I think I agree with the notion that it's like AI isn't going to take your job.
It's people that know how to use AI will be taking your job type thing.
So like what you said, Chad, like you being the project manager of this giant LLM, like that makes sense to me.
I believe that's the way it's going to shake out.
And if you're not doing it, somebody else is going to do it on another project, another protocol, whatever, right?
And we lose out to that.
So, yeah, my mind, AI is just like a really good efficiency tool.
I just, I don't know.
I don't buy into the doom and gloom
that we're all going to be replaced
and become useless meat sacks.
I mean, you're right.
This happens, what we're talking about,
every 20 to 60 years with some new technology.
You can make the argument with lots of things, right?
Like society shifts and changes over time.
Like, you know, 100 years ago, 150 years ago,
90% of jobs in America were around agriculture, right?
Today, it's like probably closer to like 4%
or something like this.
Technology just changes the landscape.
It doesn't kill people.
It kills certain jobs or restructures certain jobs. And
you just kind of move with the times. You know what I mean? I just, I was just listening to
Boris, I forget his last name right now, the guy who created Cloud Code. And he was saying that
like he thinks that the term, the job of software engineering, which is what I've spent the last
15-ish years, maybe 20 years of my life
becoming highly proficient at and becoming very good at it, will kind of cease to exist as a
career, as a title, or maybe it exists in a vestigial tale kind of way. But like, you'll
just be renamed to like builders, you know, or PMs or maybe some new phrase. And that's not necessarily that it's like the end of society or anything.
It just structurally changes how we develop code.
Like a really great example of that is going from,
I can't remember if I mentioned this last time because it's an interesting analogy,
is like going from before, you know, Johann created the printing press,
a very small percentage of humans could read and write.
It was like less than 1% approximately.
And nobody would have a career in reading and writing
except for when you were raised by, hired by a king or sometimes a church.
But it was a very like kind of edge case.
And then all of a sudden the ability to to print documents and actually mass-produce books
changed this thing from being a niche, specialized skill to something that everybody can more
or less do.
Like reading and writing became, within 200 years, 70% of humans across the whole planet
could then rewrite, right?
And so I think software engineering, as we call it today,
is just going to shift from a highly specialized skill
where 1% of the population can do it.
People like me, who's dedicated my life
to becoming a very good software engineer,
like in not even 200 years, probably closer to 20 years,
you know, 80% of people are going to be building their own software.
And that's just a structurally different thing, and it sucks for me.
It sucks for me in a big kind of way, but I'm still excited about it.
I don't think it sucks for you at all because it's just like you said.
What you do day to day is just going to change.
Your brain is still valuable, your ability to think and reason.
You're just going to be shifting your skill set, right?
Right. It just means the skill set that right? And it's just going to-
Right. It just means the skill set that I have now, at least a lot of it, is kind of useless.
I wouldn't say it's useless, it's probably a little too strong of a term, but I remember
in the early days when I was learning to code, I would just build new products. This is just
general. Anybody who wants to learn how to code or anything, if you want to become a lawyer or an artist, this applies to everything.
Like the trick to it is go for quantity, not for quality. Don't focus too much about like doing really good coding.
Just go for volume. And there was like a really interesting study done.
They got two groups of people and they were learning to be carpenters for both of these groups
and one group they said i want you to produce as many chairs as possible just like don't care about
qualities just mass produce chairs as fast as you can and the other group they said like just i want
you to make the best nicest cleanest most perfect chairs you can make and they found that the the
group that did the quantity not only produced more chairs as expected, but the quality of those chairs were better than the other guys.
And the reason why that is because you just – the act of the muscle memory and the act of doing it, I had over 100 repos in my GitHub.
Vast majority of them are original sources instead of forks. And every time I did a new project,
I had a new coding language, a new framework, a new database. So I had learned within
over a five-year-ish period. I had learned a dozen coding languages, a dozen different database types, Mongo and
SQL and CouchDB and Redis and whatever else.
And then there was HTTP frameworks.
There were other types of frameworks.
And I was just constantly learning and just learning all these different things every
time, even though the projects I was building were probably crap and nobody ever used them and there were complete flops
and failures, I learned a lot from the experience, right?
So I spent so many hours, 10,000 hours if you want to use the analogy, to become good
at writing code and architecting and this kind of stuff.
And now it's just like, I think architecting is still valuable today at least for the time being that's true
But that might seriously change in the next even just two years
But we'll see like like whenever you're gonna learn anything new to anybody listen to this podcast like just do it every day
You know don't worry about quality don't worry about if you suck because I'm gonna tell right now
You fucking do you suck at whatever it is you're learning
You're gonna suck at it your YouTube channel that you created or whatever it is you're doing,
you fucking suck at it. And that's okay. As long as every time you do produce a new YouTube video,
if that's what you're doing, that you learn something from the previous one and you get
better and better and better and better. Don't expect yourself to be good day one. Give yourself,
you know, at least a year. It requires that much ambition
and drive and focus and not derail yourself with self-doubt or imposter syndrome.
Don't worry about that stuff. Just keep on shipping, shipping, shipping. It doesn't matter
if it's crap. doing it it's it will
be crap for a long time i'm gonna guarantee it probably just keep on keep on shipping and keep
on doing it you'll get better with time so well said and i fully expand like the the videos coke
and i do i fully plan on being embarrassed by our first episodes a year from now because you know
we've already started iterating so much and i really like how you said that chad you know i was just thinking um you know i think in 10 to 20 years or maybe
even shorter than that like the idea of coders doing their own code will just be like almost
unthinkable right with this new generation and i think it's really cool that actually thor chain
may be like one of the last examples where it's like you know humans actually built that like
humans real humans put their brains together collaborate and they built this amazing thing like one of the last examples where it's like, you know, humans actually built that. Like humans,
real humans put their brains together
to collaborate
and they built this amazing thing.
They didn't have AI tools
back in the day.
Like they'll say those things
from here and now.
Like it'll be,
the complexity
will just blow people's minds
of like what we're able
to accomplish
with just humans
just banging their heads together,
working, collaborating.
I think that's really cool.
I would bet money
that's what's going to happen kids will look back and be like how the hell did they even make that
damn thing i was watching something the other day about like art and like already ai art is being
valued like at nothing and people they want the human made art because with the human made art comes the story,
the emotion, the, the motivation, why did they go through it all? Right.
Where the AI doesn't have any of that. Right. So that's really what, you know,
people are buying an art there. They're buying the artist and, you know,
it's like, you don't, you don't buy the product, you buy the salesman. Right.
Yeah. So people are buying the artist and their story and everything,
their heart that they put into it.
And AI doesn't have that.
So I actually I can have a story that directly correlates that on Christmas.
I got a good friend who's a doctor.
One of her dogs passed away and I had a painting commissioned of her dog.
Right. And so we gave it to her just before Christmas and she unveiled it.
Right. And she looked at it and she's like, whoa, how did you do this?
And she's like, wait a you do this and she's like wait a minute
did someone paint this and the moment i told her a human painter actually started painting it from
scratch then she started crying that emotional impact hit if it was just like an algorithmic
ai with like a cheap printing on a canvas it wouldn't have had that same connection but because
somebody literally looked at a picture of her dog and then looked at the canvas and meticulously got all the expressions, all the emotions, like then she started crying.
So that's real.
There's a humans doing things still has premium 100 percent.
Yeah, that will always be true.
And it depends on what the human is trying to consume.
And so like if I'm going to buy art, maybe I want the story.
Right.
It's important for a lot of artists out there.
Like my girlfriend does, you know, she's huge into artwork,
and she has a very strong opinion on these things.
It resonates strongly with her, and she's a different viewpoint than maybe I do.
You know, for a lot of people out there who are looking for art,
I think they're just looking for something that looks good
and is relatively cheap and fits in the wall and that kind of thing.
But for other people, like what Kenton's saying, like absolutely true.
The story is actually a really important component for them.
Yeah.
Oh, cool, man.
I'm bullish on AI future, I got to say.
The more and more I'm seeing,
I'm getting more and more bullish.
It is what it is.
What do you think about it?
Like technology in general,
science and technology in general,
is like the engine of prosperity in society.
Like everything that we have in our societies, everything that's tangible at least,
is brought to you by science, brought to you by technology, right? Like that's the reason why you live better than a king did, you know, 150 years ago. Like the quality of life that you have is
far better than a king. Even a hundred years ago, the access to medicine, the access to
food, information, education, you name it. It's incredible what we can do and how we
can improve the quality of lives of everybody just by almost every form of technology that
we invent does improve quality of life in one form or another which is like critically critically important
that's why i see ai it's just like the new tractor the new electricity whatever like
it's just going to catapult our quality of living yeah it's just going to the poorest of the poor
is going to be leveled up everyone's going to be leveled up this is why like elon's running around
saying like don't even save for for retirement anymore because there's going to be so much wealth created that everyone's standard living is just going to like like step
change up right that that's that's the way i see it like in the end game right like you said maybe
some people are going to lose their jobs and they won't they're going to wallow in a in a pit of
of uh misery right and they're not going to like know, they're going to have their blinders on, they won't see that two new jobs were created in its absence. But the people who do see that,
they're going to ride the wave up. And I think net for humanity is going to be great.
It's just like the example Chad gave in the beginning, right? Like you're talking about,
you know, toiling in the field, like a lot of people look at pictures of like the Industrial
Revolution, where like people are like in the lines, like constructing, they got this real crude automated machinery,
and there was a lot of injuries, you know, in the beginning of that.
But people would literally kill to do that instead of toil in the field all day.
That was such a huge improvement for the quality of life just being,
and what we would see is really dicey right now.
And so, yes, I don't see any reason why improvements on AI
and increasing technology will have any different effect in the future.
Yeah.
Well, people should be saving for retirement just because Elon Musk says this.
Oh, yeah, I'm not saying that.
Hey, was that financial advice, Kenton?
Was that financial advice?
Not financial advice from Kevin, so everybody's aware.
But he's right in some sense of like, if we could see a future like, you know, that jobs
themselves could become obsolete.
If we get to a place which is not unreasonable, where AI is more capable than 80% of humans
and doing almost any arbitrary work that involves a computer,
and even ones that don't for when you get to humanoid robots, you know, driving trucks or,
you know, doing manufacturing, whatever. Like, there's a real future where, like, you know,
we don't even need jobs anymore. And so when we look back, you know, a while ago, and we say,
anymore. And like, so when we, when we look back, you know, a while ago and we say like,
you guys had to use outhouses, you didn't even have plumbing. Like, that's just like
kind of wild from our perspectives, right? Like, even though plumbing is like relatively new,
we didn't have like plumbing in America for like the average house until like 1940s or 1950s. It's
like, not that long ago. My mom grew up with an outhouse. Did she really? Yeah. How old was your mom?
So for her, that would have been in the 50s.
Yeah, in the 50s, right?
Not that long ago.
Yeah.
There could be a day where our grandkids look at us and be like,
you guys had to work jobs?
Yeah.
Like slaves?
You guys used to do manually forced slave labor,
like doing spreadsheets and writing code like an idiot.
Dude, I believe we could be at that stage now if it weren't for the monetary system.
All the wealth stolen and unequally, unevenly distributed, right?
I think we had an equal, even natural distribution of wealth.
We'd be much closer to that reality than we are today.
I don't know. That's hard to argue. You can argue against that and say that without the
improper distribution of wealth, if you want to call it that, to use your kind of mentality,
you wouldn't have the capital, it would be harder to have the capital to build the technologies
that allow us to have that to begin
with like you would need wealthy people like your musts and sam altman's and you know uh all these
kinds of people and and to be able to deploy that kind of capital to build this the wherever the the
current edge of technology is well i think people like that would have they are in their capital
Well, I think people like that would have, they are in their capital properly.
Like, I'm talking about people that steal capital.
That's allocated through theft.
Misappropriation of tax funds.
Oh, well, theft is a very different, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But anyway, I agree with you too.
I think we can get to that point where it's like we become so wealthy.
And that's the thing too is like,
it's just like a human, human nature thing.
Like look at the poorest, the poor person in the West.
They still have a cell phone.
They still have TV.
They have cable.
They have heat.
They have running water. Like you mentioned a hundred years ago,
a person would think that's like, what do you mean you're poor?
Like, and so poverty is like, it's a relative concept, right?
So like we could a 100 years from now, somebody could be living this incredibly wealthy life from our standards today.
But that's a poor person 100 years from now.
Yeah, or even like 20 years because I live in New York City.
in New York City, I'm walking down the street,
I'm walking down the street.
Sometimes I see somebody homeless in the street.
and they got a cell phone in their hand,
which would have been a super luxurious thing to have
when the iPhone launched in, what was it, 2008
or whatever year that was, which was not that long ago,
and that would have been a bleeding-edge luxury item,
and now even a poor person in the street
who can barely afford a cheeseburger
has a cell phone in their hand, you know.
Well, let's how do we let's wrap this.
Let's bring this full circle to the Thor chain.
So AI is here.
It's not going away.
It's getting bigger.
Do you think these AI agents are going to start using money and they're going to start paying for stuff?
And I assume they're going to use crypto. And if they're going to want to swap it,
I hope they use ThorChain. How do you see that coming out, Chad, with AI using money?
I think it's pretty obvious they're going to use crypto. Is it obvious they're going to use ThorChain?
Or how do we encourage, how do we build ThorChain for AI, right?
So I have two thoughts on this.
One is we are nowhere close to get into a place where AI is using money at this stage in the game.
When you hallucinate, you prompt Chachapiti andian and says hey what's the capital of Massachusetts
and it says New York City you know what I mean like that's not a big deal it's low stakes I
thought it should be Boston but I thought it's New York City because of this you know hallucination
you can't do that with crypto right not to mention that the security risks of being able to do prompt injections and other forms of hackery, it's too easy.
To hack an LLM these days is way too easy, which is not too dissimilar to the early days of the EVM world, where there was even less protection than there are now.
protections that there are now and even now there's like not enough in a sense
Even now, there's not enough, in a sense.
so I don't think there should be real money and you know and real dollars at
least not meaningful dollars right maybe like you know ten bucks here and
there with whatever who cares but like for the most part we are not in a place
now where that's that makes sense or is reasonable in the technology as of today
right that doesn't mean it won't be true tomorrow at some point, and I'm happy to revise my
stance with new information and new conditions.
But as it stands now, I don't think it makes sense to do that.
That being said, DGENs are still going to DGEN, and there are a lot of people out there
who think that ChatGPT is a super genius, even though it's just just like i'm just guessing what the next token is going to be right based upon mathematical
analysis that does not know what's going to happen to the bitcoin price i'm sorry to tell you it does
not know what's going to happen to the room price or any any asset for that matter and i would
certainly advise somebody to not give a meaningful amount of money to a chat to bt and then go out
and try to like make money on the stock market or in crypto or whatever i think that's just a little bit irresponsible to be
honest with you it's fun if you want to play around with it give it 100 bucks you know whatever like
not a big deal um so that said like i'm not against the idea of building some tools sdks
frameworks whatever uh wallets specialized wallets maybe i'm open to doing that within the thor chain
ecosystem just to get ahead of the curve as i'm getting ahead of the curve on the hugan
side of things um but i just don't think that it makes sense to use ai with money quite yet
yeah i i actually saw this today i posted a link in there i ended up right on time look at it but
someone took four bots gave them four strategies gave, gave them $500 a piece, and just said, you all have to fight, and whoever doesn't make it, you're dead.
You know, the best one wins.
I thought that was pretty interesting.
And, yeah, I think you're right, Chad.
Building it today so that it's available, because I know there's going to be people who are going to try, like, today to do this.
Yeah, yeah.
You know?
They want to be the first.
Yeah?
Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. That makes sense. And I'm totally open to that. going to try like today to do this yeah you know they want to be the first yeah absolutely yes
absolutely that makes sense and i'm totally open to that i haven't spent that much time looking
into like i know there's been talks about what's called the http 429 uh error code which is around
need payment the wrong payments and using that error code to something i haven't looked into
the depths of it i just saw kind of go through my feed or whatever... I haven't looked into the depths of it. I just saw it kind of go through my feed or whatever,
and I haven't dived into the depths of it quite yet.
But yeah, like building that stuff.
I know Uniswap announced it recently
that they're building or built some new tooling
for SDKs or for AIs to do trading
or something like this.
I'd be interested to keep my eye open
on this kind of stuff
and maybe putting a little dev resources into it.
Maybe not many, but some,
to investigate this and potentially doing it.
But yeah, I agree.
What about not trading?
Go ahead.
What about instead of trading,
what about like an AI just like is for hire
and humans will pay it, you know, Bitcoin or stable coin
and it's collecting this in a wallet
and then the AI decides it wants to pay a human to do something for it yeah this pays the bitcoin
or stablecoin it's not actually trading it but it's just receiving and paying do you envision
something like that coming about anytime soon uh not anytime soon because if that happens it's probably going to be more more TradFi than like DeFi in a sense because it's going to be large companies
like you know your Anthropics that are gonna probably do that kind of stuff
first like you know lawyer for hire right kind of thing or software
engineer for hire kind of thing where they kind of they then they want to
collect dollars that they don't want to collect necessarily you know bitcoin necessarily or like maybe usdc is probably even
more likely than bitcoin because they don't want to take on the financial risk of holding a volatile
asset like bitcoin um i think that'll shift and change over time i think you know as bitcoin or
crypto in general is going to become naturally become more accepted in the industry uh and not
the industry but the entire American
economy or world economy, as Bitcoin becomes just more held by more people and people just
are just more engaged with it and more comfortable with it as a resource.
That could be the case. It's unclear whether it's going to be, I have my generic AI,
which is just my chatGPT account or something like this,
and that's my lawyer, and that's my this, and that's my that, and that's my that, and
I don't need to go out and hire a specific AI to do a specific thing.
Or if we're going to get into the more nuanced, niche kind of things, it's more likely in
my mind that we're going to go general and not niche, because're focusing all of our resources to achieve like in the AGI concept.
Do you know what I mean?
Like we don't want to build niche products within the AI space.
The product is not building a lawyer or a software engineer.
The product is going to be AGI, right?
A-S-I eventually.
So I don't think so in my opinion but you know i could be eating my words
in six months we'll see cool i love it i love it yeah it's gonna be interesting how it goes but i'm
just so glad like imagine if we didn't have chad you guys and he was not using hugan to start you
know helping with the code on thor chain we'd be so far behind we would just be like hey what's
going on like you were totally on top of this props man props like that's just forward
thinking shit that's that's how it works man I love that so much yeah I found the tweet that I
tweeted a while back that was May 29th 2025 so that was almost a year ago that I was talking about
exactly this right about building this kind of Hugugen bot that, I even call it Project Hugen. I said
in my tweet right there, Project Hugen. I'm talking about
the use cases, how we could use it to help us code and
become an autonomous developer. And, you know, one day
it'll take over 90% of the
development on 4Chain, which is absolutely astounding
if you think about it. But it'll probably happen maybe
by the end of the year, maybe next year. But based on based on what you're saying earlier i mean that's going to happen in
all all software yeah yeah all software like that's yeah yeah we we have to be much more cautious than
than your average software right like most software does not have to be as cautious as we have to be
because we're storing tens of millions hundreds of millions whatever the value is of worth of
bitcoin ethereum and various assets so we can't just arbitrarily just like willy nilly, you know,
throw out some some AI slot code and throw it up on the blockchain and be fine with it. We have to
be much more, you know, strenuous in the way that we kind of write code more so than like cloud code
has to build cloud code. Like cloud code can make mistakes and that's fine. It doesn't really matter that much per se.
But for us, we secure funds.
So we have to be much more safe about it
than your average web to website.
So we'll be slow to the adoption
in that sense of fully autonomous.
But we'll have humans involved in the process
at all major cruxes to ensure that everything's going in the right direction.
Until the point comes that I feel that the AI is smarter than every developer we have on the team combined.
If that's the case, then I can probably just exit myself as a software engineer entirely from the code base and just let the AI do it at that point because it's much better and smarter than I am anyway. Even if it makes a
mistake and it produces a bug of some kind, I produce bugs all the time too. I'm a person.
I make mistakes. You know what I mean? And that's perfectly natural. So even if it makes mistakes,
the question is, does it make mistakes less than humans do? like tesla for example is driving does it make
mistakes absolutely do people get hurt yeah sometimes do you get hurt driving cars in the
street yeah 30 000 people die per year in america like more so than like handguns because people are
like you know texting and driving or drunk or you know or just have a you know a tire that explodes
on them while they're driving or whatever listening to a thor chain live stream you know, or just have a, you know, a tire that explodes on them while they're driving or whatever.
Listening to a ThorChain live stream, you know.
Listening to a ThorChain live stream.
Both hands on the wheel, people.
Both hands on the wheel.
But, like, that's a natural thing to occur.
So, like, when the time comes that the AI is much better than me and the entire team combined,
then it becomes the team is the hindrance to the AI.
Do you know what I mean like it's like you
would probably produce worse code because we're involved rather than better code so i had go ahead
go again oh what would you do with that five percent developer fund then uh-oh i don't want
to make nine rounds nervous well i mean that's a good question. So the 5% dev fund that's currently being happening, we have to evaluate at that time.
That might be the thing at some stage, right?
We have a lot of cost to operating this network, right?
We're paying me, my salary, and the salary of the other devs, for example.
We also pay community members and block explorers and marketing which is going from the from the
system income there's lots of things that are happening and on things that landscape is going
to drastically change over the coming you know in the coming years what that's going to look
like in five years it's almost impossible to know i don't i don't even know off the top of my head
what the burn rate is that we have
currently, but that might be reduced significantly. And that just makes us much more viable or
sustainable over a much longer period of time. We're still here. We're still producing code.
We're still doing what we do and doing a pretty good job of it in a time when a lot of other
projects have basically died or gone full-on zombie style.
And we're still here producing a large amount of code.
We're producing more code now than we have in the past,
in part because of the AI,
which is obviously a largely very positive thing.
So I'm very open and curious to see how things are going to change.
But even when we hire an external developer
to build ThorChain.net, for example,
or RuneScan, something like this,
the cost of that should come down naturally with it
because the cost of building and maintaining that code
comes down significantly.
Are we going to get to a point
where we don't even need humans for that too
and we just have an AI bot
that just constantly looks at the logs of
RuneScan or something
like that and then oh there's a bug and fix
it, deploy it and it's a full
autonomous process
and then do it for like pennies on the dollar
sure, that's totally
a viable thing that may happen in the next few years
and then of course we're going to engage with that because it just
makes us more sustainable as a
project, you know
We're all getting fired boys All of us. Including me by the way And then, of course, we're going to engage with that because it just makes us more sustainable as a project.
We're all getting fired, boys.
All of us.
Including me, by the way.
I'm not excluded from this.
I could get fired from this.
Who knows?
How is it going looking for another dev?
Yes, I was just going to ask that.
Yeah, so I've interviewed a few.
I actually have another one at 4 o'clock, so I have to go in about 40 minutes to interview the next person. Yes, it's going well. I got a couple of good candidates. I'm interested to see what this next person is going to do. I'm hoping that we'll be
able to hire at least one, maybe even two within the next week if things go as smoothly as I would like them to go.
I'm excited about the future of the project.
I think we're going to have more human dev resources,
which is so funny because we're engaging much more in the AI side as well.
But we're going to have probably more dev talent, dev heads,
whatever you want to call it, in the project now that we've had in the past.
And that makes me excited about the future.
Well, like you mentioned this, I think, on the previous podcast,
that the AI, the LMs are only as good as the prompt.
And so having a few different humans working together,
right now, Hugen's just relying on Chad's
prompts.
We could have another human with his own set of experiences and what he thinks, ask Hugen
a different way, prompt it a different way, and we can get another outcome, right?
So this is, it's like having multiple drivers on the AI, that'll help leverage it for us,
right?
Yeah, sure. I mean, it's interesting.
As humans generating more and more work, right, and more and more code, you need more and
more resources to review that code, right?
Because the throughput, like writing code is so fast these days, right?
Even me writing code, my process has gone up 10x or whatever the speed is as it feels like
it's 10x to me and but now you need much more reviewers and reviewing is the one
thing that AI I mean AI does do it and I actually you can does do reviews in the
code and it is helpful but you can't rely on that solely you definitely
definitely humans to you know because AI can make the dumbest the most you know
clueless basic common-sense mistakes, you know, Kenton as a non-developer probably would not have made, you know.
But you definitely need humans involved in the process.
And so, like, that's partially why we need to hire more people.
And so that we can actually keep on pushing through this much code as fast as we can. Hugin iterates through the code continuously looking for problems, bugs, issues, security,
blah, blah, blah, whatever it is.
It's doing that continuously.
It takes about a week, maybe two weeks to go through the entire code base and very meticulously
it's doing what I call a folder file function approach to this, which is something I had
thought of.
And it takes a while to do that, but it's generating
tons of GitLab issues of legitimate bugs. Most of them are very small, not to be concerned about
or whatever. But it's doing that, and it's generating 50 issues per week or 100 issues per
week, which is a lot more than I would have done if you'd asked me to do the same task, to be honest
with you. It's finding a lot more things that I would have found if you asked me to go line by line
and look for issues or bugs.
So we need to get, we're having an increased throughput
of coaching is happening naturally,
and we need an increased throughput on the human side
as well to coalesce with that kind of production increase.
Nice. So these guys you're talking to or girls are they like are they
have experience in crypto or they're like new to crypto yeah it's a mix it's it's there was
somebody in the community that came to me they've been around for years I think and they're not a
golden developers and they're not GoLang developers,
and they're not even Cosmos SDK developers,
but they're developers in other languages.
And they wanted to contribute, and I'm considering that.
I'm not sure if that'll happen or not.
I'm still kind of thinking it over.
The people that I've been interviewing with are in crypto. They've been, you know, most of them are Cosmos SDK developers,
and they've been doing it for a considerable amount of time.
One person I've interviewed is, know a polygon employee and has been there for many years
so it's a pretty pretty good range and but part of me thinks that like i am i am less
considered like concerned about like whether your cosmos sdk experiences is heavy or thin or not at
all because like that that stuff is learnable you can learn the cosmos sdk to experiences as heavy or thin or not at all because like that that stuff is learnable
you can learn the cosmos sdk you can learn this like that it might take a few months to get there
but like that's something that's like i you know you can adjust for and become better at what i'm
more interested about is like are you focused are you you know good to work with are you intellectually
sound you know a lot of the conversations i have in my interviews, like I don't do coding tasks. Like this is like famous thing that Google started
many years ago of getting like little coding tasks to see if you're a good coder or not by
giving this like leak code, tricky kind of coding thing. I think that's fucking bullshit to be honest
with you. Like it doesn't really mean what people thought that it mean to be honest with you in my
opinion.
What I look for in interviews is like, I ask you simple questions.
Like, tell me about, an example would be like, tell me about what are the biggest technical challenges in crypto?
Right? And there's no right or wrong answer to that question.
I'm just like, is your answer sound? Does it make sense? Is it a good point?
Are you impressing me? Are you just like, I think, I think crypto is cool. And crypto sounds like it's a fun thing. If that's your answer, I'm like,
okay, well, then you're an idiot. You have no idea what you're talking about. And you know, you're not going to fit in here for obvious reason, you're done. But if you have like,
even if I don't agree with your technical analysis of whatever the things you're talking about,
you've proven to me that you've thought deeply about it, that you're capable of going in deep
thought that you are intellectually capable of like expressing an idea and staying
true to it and then when i challenge you on your ideas you know um maybe you would acknowledge some
good points in the making or you were going to become defensive and say how did and say that i'm
wrong for asking this question or some sort of like kind of irrational response to it that's
stuff you can't train.
That's stuff you can't teach, that stuff.
That's how you are as a person.
And I'm more interested in that than I am in your technical prowess
because the technical stuff I can teach you.
I can get you there.
As long as you're a smart person, you know, quick learner, this kind of thing,
I can get you there.
And I don't mind doing that.
But if you're an asshole, if you're not like deeply thought of this,
if you don't love to code, if coding isn't like part of your soul that you love to do that like you're
probably just not going to be as productive as somebody who does love to do it who gets excited
about the stuff because somebody who loves this stuff as i have done it for a long time i just
constantly just built new projects a lot of it didn't even mean to do anything with it i wasn't
trying to build a new company. I thought this was cool.
I did a project once just for fun of how do I pull the subject verb and object out of
a sentence?
I'm going to build some code that does that.
It's kind of an interesting idea from a computer science perspective.
I don't know what use case it has, but it was kind of a cool notion.
I spent a month or two working on it a long time ago and that kind of excitement or interest or curiosity
is just going to spawn somebody who really cares loves excited learning engaged and those are the
kind of people that i personally like to work with more than anything else yeah you can't train
curiosity you can't train that stuff you can't train that stuff. You can't learn it. You either have or you don't.
And that's what I'm trying to ascertain more than the act of technical skill.
Obviously, you need to have technical skill.
And if you have experience, that's obviously better than not having experience for obvious reasons.
But, like, I really want to know is, like, are you smart?
Are you engaged?
Are you easy to work with?
Can you be collaborative?
Are you a team player?
Like, that stuff is really what's more important to me.
Do you ask them about their views on freedom of speech and censorship?
You know, I have an asset.
Maybe I will moving forward.
But I hope that like if you're going to choose to work in a company like this, not a company, but a project like this, that you're already kind of aligned.
But then again, we've had people on the devs working on it that weren't really aligned in
that sense.
Like Pluto, I'm going to use Pluto here because he publicly made a thing out of it.
So he's already kind of doxed himself in this way.
But like he was very vocal about this and not wanting to have decentralization in the
traditional sense.
He wanted to be controlled and we should block certain wallets or whatever.
That was his personal viewpoint.
And now he's working on his own kind of fork or whatever you want to call it
to build his own harbor decks, whatever it's called.
And that's fine.
He's going to do that and he's going to have his worldview
and they're going to ban and block certain addresses, I guess.'m i'm guessing i don't know if that's actually true of
the project but i'm based upon how i know about pluto i'm getting that to be the case and that's
their choice they can go ahead and do that i don't know what the point of that is to be honest with
you because if you're doing that just be a sex like i don't what's the point of the whole dex
part if you're just gonna like we're gonna ban certain people or block whatever just be a fucking
sex like like coinbase
That's nothing wrong with that. It can be a sex. It's nothing wrong being a sex. Just be a sex
I don't know if this like middle ground is we're decks, but we're not decks, but we're decks, but we're not decks
I'm just like I
Choose an identity here my friend. Let's say the same same with hyperliquid like it's just a sex
I don't know.
Same with hyperliquid.
Like, it's just a sex.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Just be that.
Just call a spade a spade.
There's nothing wrong with that.
You know, like, I'm not going to get in your case about being a dex or a sex, rather.
That's fine.
Just be truthful to what it is and what is the value that you're providing?
If you're a dex and you're going to, you know, like Chainflip, for example,
a DEX and they're going to like block certain addresses or whatever it is,
what are you doing?
What is the point?
Like, why should people use you versus, you know, Coinbase?
Oh, we don't do KYC.
Well, you kind of do, don't you?
You know what I mean?
You kind of do if you're going to go to Chain Analysis and they tell you that they don't like that person well they've done their fucking
kyc and and you're just gonna like okay cool you don't like this person i don't even know who this
person is but because you don't like this person i don't like this person and that person can no
longer trade on this exchange what the hell are we even talking about at this point just like if
if you don't like what
it is that we do as in decentralized finance in general which has been the viewpoint from day day
one then just do something else yeah that's what if you well that's actually why i asked you chad
because like you know i find a lot of people in crypto, they really don't believe in freedom of speech and the movement.
And I'm just curious, can someone who's curious and technically savvy still deliver if they're against free speech?
And in my mind, they're always going to be handicapped.
in my mind, they're always going to be handicapped.
Whereas somebody who truly believes in free speech,
maybe they're not the senior best guy,
but they believe in the mission.
We just get that extra oomph out of them,
that extra commitment.
Well, there's kind of that famous saying of,
I may not believe, I'm not going to get exactly correct. I'm paraphrasing a little bit. Like, I may not agree I'm gonna get that I'm not gonna get exactly correct and
paraphrase it a little bit like I may not agree with what you say but I will
fight with to the death so that you can say it right like like when you're
saying we should have free speech because I want people who are like me
to say what they want to say that's not free speech it's one of you people that
you don't agree with you know like I don't like neo-Nazis, but I do believe they have the right to protest
if they choose to do so, and I will fight for the right for them to protest because
that's what free speech is. It's not when they agree with me, it's when they don't
agree with me, I will stand true to my views, stand true to my morals, and say that you
should have the right to speak even if I disagree with you this idea that you only agree with free speech when they agree with you i mean that's not
free speech man that's the exact opposite of free speech that's censorship you're talking about
censorship at this point correct yeah i think you know the thing is like people who say well we're
gonna stop and prevent economically bad actors, right?
Economic.
And maybe they'll say the most hated one, like DPRK, right?
Everyone hates them, obviously, right?
But if you're looking for economically bad actors, when are we blocking the U.S. government?
You ready to do that?
Because, you know, I think they're probably one of the worst, right?
You're prepared to block the U.S. government.
Hey, we've got to stay intellectually consistent here.
You know what I mean?
Like it's a lose-lose.
It's lose-lose.
Yep.
It's got to be open, and the problem will fix itself.
Yep.
There was a dev, and I'm not going to mention names, of course, for reasons,
but there was a dev on the team that didn't want to contribute anymore
because we merged Zcash.
And Zcash has privacy built into it,
and they don't want to be associated with contributing to a project that is part of privacy or whatever it is.
And that's their individual choice if they want to make that choice.
Like, I don't fault them for it.
You know, it's their worldview.
They can have whatever viewpoint they want to have.
But at some point, I'm just like, I don't understand that viewpoint to some degree because what do you think we're doing here?
Like, it's about decentralization.
It's about being privacy-focused in the sense that we don't do KYC, for example.
As soon as you shun away from privacy in that sense, then it's like, well, I fail to see
the line that's being drawn here because we've already crossed that line when you signed
up on day one and we're doing
Bitcoin and Ethereum
transactions.
What's the difference?
Sorry, Chuck.
Do good.
Honestly, that's why
I'm still here.
That's why I'm going
through this brain damage
and still believe
in ThorChain
and work on it
and everything.
It's like,
this is real free speech.
Yeah.
I don't see many
other projects
doing anything like this,
right? No, no. Yeah, Chainflip's not doing it. many other projects doing anything like this right no no
yeah chainflip's not doing it near's not doing it i mean what what what cross-chain decks out there is it has this mentality i don't think any of them do right i don't think layer zero does and
to my knowledge at least like there's a there's a centralized component to what they do at least
from my recollection that's true at least.
For Near, they stopped a $10 million trade a few weeks ago, right?
Chain Flip already publicly said they're filtering addresses and whatever.
I brought this up a few times in the past, but CARF, Crypto Asset Reporting Framework.
This is coming, guys. It's going to become a thing in the next couple of years where basically they have the front ends or whatever,
DeFi platforms, I don't know.
They're going to start forcing in some kind of KYC.
And so I don't know how they're going to enforce it
or where it's going to land, but it's coming.
And the guys that are doing the censorship already,
they're going to implement this too.
And then they've just done a giant circle back to TradFi, back to being a sex.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's...
Well, what we have to do as a community is to continue to hold the torch.
Right.
Carry the torch forward and carry the original viewpoint of this entire industry,
we're still kind of OG in that sense.
We still believe in the origins of this industry and the idea of freedom of speech
and the right to own your assets and all this kind of stuff.
We're going to hold that torch.
I'm going to continue to hold that torch. I'm going to continue to hold that torch. And if this community decided to vote
me out because they don't want to
you know, they no longer
want to adhere to that, then
I will happily leave at that point.
I can't imagine anyone still here.
I think we're all on the same page at this point.
Yeah, I think we are.
Yeah. I think the whole thing
with Bybit was a big...
Yeah, exactly. And then in a with Bybit was a big one.
Yeah, exactly.
And then like in a bear market, that washes everyone out, right?
The believers right now are the ones who are staying.
And yeah, like ThorChain is making crypto cypherpunk again.
Like this is, you know, when I first heard about Bitcoin in the early years, like the
early, you know, 2011 to 15, man, the conversations were so much more interesting, like freedom and fighting the man.
I don't see that anymore.
So I do believe we're going to make a comeback to that, that everyone's getting tired with all these garbage tokens, all the rent-seeking, burning out audiences, all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, I have a feeling that's my bet anyway, that that's ending and the real tech is going to survive here.
Yeah, yeah.
I've never seen our community more aligned in the history of since I've been here ever.
I mean, all the people, the diehard, the believers, the people who really want to push this thing forward who want we're serious it's not romanticized it's not it's not like you know
we're not making this like we want to build the thing that liberates everyone we want to build
that and we're not going to stop until we accomplish that goal and the the people who really
mean that who truly believe that they're the ones that are still here they're the ones that are
listening to this live stream and i thank you very much i thank you very much um it really has taken all of us to get to this
point yeah and um we're gonna keep going in fact i think we're about to just go to a next level
for thorn chain especially with you got with hugan chad like i am so excited for the future i really
feel like we got our ducks in a row everything i feel good i feel really good i can't shake that
feeling i don't want to i'm not pretending i feel good i feel excellent really good. I can't shake that feeling.
I'm not pretending I feel good.
I feel excellent about what we're going.
It's so much fun. I know you guys don't see what I'm working on
on the website, but I'm like, when the site's done,
SEO is done, and we can actually start
trying to drive people to it,
I'm like, fuck, something's got to work.
I don't believe we can't find...
I don't believe I can try
a dozen things and all a dozen things are going to fail. I just don't believe it.'t find i don't believe i can try a dozen things and all
dozen things are going to fail i just don't believe it i'm like something is going to work
something's going to stick and we're able to get you know get some and once we find something that
works and we start you know putting pouring more effort into that and replicating it like
um i just i'm convinced that once people find out about this, it's just a no-brainer.
I don't use the SACS.
I just use it for a fiat on and off ramp.
Yeah, me too.
I do everything.
And I feel like the real power crypto users are the same.
And they just don't know about DoorChain yet.
Or they've got the wrong impression or whatever.
We do have a question from the audience guys.
Um, and I,
I hear this a lot,
Chad,
and maybe you can just give like a more explain,
you know,
everyone wants to know XMR,
like what is,
what is the main problem with XMR?
Why is it so hard to add on Thor chain?
So maybe I'll kick it to you.
Yeah.
I was just at a meeting today with the,
the chain,
the chain,
one of the chain,
that guys,
um, and we would talk to XMR, We had a meeting today with one of the ChainNet guys.
And we talked about XMR.
We spent maybe like 10, 15 minutes talking about it.
So we were talking about different chains.
Right now, I think he's focusing on Cardano currently.
We just got Sol, Zcash is next.
I think Polygon also got merged and Cardano after that.
So we talked about XMR, and we were just saying how complicated it is,
the signing especially and the way of securing those assets.
I don't think we can use GG20 as it is with XMR. I am not sure if DSLR.
The DSLR.
The DSLR.
I'm sorry.
What is the name of that acronym?
Now I'm forgetting the acronym.
There's another.
D-K-L-S?
D-K-L-S, thank you.
D-K-L-S. I don't know if D-K-L-S works with XMR or not.
I know there's kind of some people have told me,
I think, that the latest version of the multi-sig,
like built into the, I mean everything is a lot better
than it was a few years ago.
Cause a few years ago, even the devs over there were saying,
don't use our multi-sig for any production code.
It is not secure.
It is problematic, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And so we obviously shied away from it for that reason,
for obvious reasons. But even with that, I don't know how well it would work because I don't know
every implementation of multi-sig is different on a per chain basis and some have different
limits of the number of signatories you can have in a multi-sig and I don't know what the limits
are for XMR off the top of my head and we have each of our volts as you know 18 19 20
you know signers that number might be too large to support especially if we move to dkls where
we're going to go from you know 20 per volt to maybe 100 per volt theoretically so um that is
it's going to be an ongoing thing but it is going to be one of our priorities for 2026 is to get xmr but it is so
complicated not even just the signing part of things but also like the view keys on the thor
node side to be able to decrypt and i think when you make a signature you have to get other
signatories so that creates that ring signature kind of like effect to give that privacy is just
another layer of complexity?
I am nervous about XMR.
I love XMR.
I would love to add it.
And I do want to add it.
And that's going to be one of my goals.
But I'm nervous about it because it's just so technically
complex and difficult to actually achieve.
And that was just why nobody else has added it.
Even more centralized protocols have still
been added to XMR yet because it is that complicated to do um but i'm hoping that we can get it done this year but don't quote me on
that because there's a lot of other things that inflow and flux and and they're you know it's it's
going to be challenging for sure but it um i know a cryptographer here in cayman and he's pretty
well respected and liked i he's a good guy. I don't know how
good a coder he is
or not.
But apparently,
everyone says he's like a genius cryptographer.
Should I put you guys
in touch? Yeah, put me in touch.
Even just having a conversation
with him so that I can learn more.
I'm not a cryptographer myself.
I'm not an expert in this field. I know a little bit that I've learned
over the years, but I'm not an expert by
any stretch. Talking to somebody like
him, you know, I know
the head of cryptography
over at Coinbase.
And so having a conversation
just to understand where the
challenges lie and
what is practical, what is impractical,
so forth and so on, that in itself would be hugely valuable to me, just that I know what the pathway forward looks
like to deliver something like XMR. All right. I'll talk to him and see if he's just open to
chatting with you for a bit. Yeah. I get this question a lot because they're going to have
an update on XMR. Does it even make sense to add it now, wait until they have this massive update coming on the XMR side?
Maybe that would, you know, it would just invalidate the work.
If we were to start today, it would invalidate the work we're doing for,
you know, six months from now.
Yeah, I'm not even familiar with FCMP, to be honest.
I don't even know what that is.
There's too many acronyms in this industry.
Maybe that's part of their roadmap that I'm not cluing into the XMR roadmap
personally.
So, like, I don't even know what that means, to be honest with you.
But I can look into it.
Maybe post-FCMP, it'll be even easier for us to integrate,
and it'll get done quicker because of that.
Who knows?
Yeah, and someone's the same person asking,
would it be okay if we use the wrap version of it in the meantime
until we get the real deal?
It's typically not what we do.
I don't know what you mean by a wrapped version in this context, to be honest.
I'm not sure if that person wants to come on stage or not.
I don't either.
But is that like a wrapped XMR on the Ethereum blockchain?
Is that what you mean by that?
Perhaps.
Or maybe you mean something else that i'm not even familiar with so
i don't know if that person has any yeah well we'll see i'll wait for him to respond but guys
this is what i'm just talking about like people ask me this question all the time if we could add
xmr tomorrow we would do it at least i would push for it right yeah um and it's just it is so
unbelievably complicated every dev i talk to, Chad Bareboard, everyone else,
I always hear the same thing.
This is just another level of complexity,
another level of complexity.
So, you know.
It would be the most complicated one to add.
Like there's no blockchain that I know of in the world
that would be more difficult to add than XMR.
But XMR also provides a lot of interesting value
by having one of the most, you know,
in my opinion, strongest encryption and privacy kind of methodologies out there, right? It's
really clean in that sense. And so, and I, you guys know me, I believe in privacy. I think privacy
is a first right for every human. We should have privacy. And the rest of the world agreed with me
up until like 1970, where the Bank Secrecy act passed or whatever it is and and all of a sudden privacy went up went
out the window within finances but i i we should bring it back in my opinion yeah a lot of people
saying some interesting things in chat right now um yeah i i uh i would love this i think okay this is something people say a lot i totally agree
if we added xmr i think the volume on 14 we're the first to do it would be absolutely incredible
would just be astonishing how much volume we would get if we managed to add xmr so yeah there's
definitely a huge economic reward for being the first to do this 100 yeah i think there would be
too that's why we have zcash is a lot of volume on, you know, New Year, for example.
How do you think it would, so part of the reason we can handle these huge Bitcoin swaps
is because of the ability for ARBs to arbitrage it with other markets, right?
Other sexes.
If Monero is delisted from all these other, know if it's it's you know from all these other
sexes could it be harder for us to process a lot of volume if it's harder for the arb's to
know because there's enough markets out there well that because if if there are no seconds
remaining that support xmr then thor chain becomes the only market okay yeah then then you don't need
to arb anymore because whatever the price is there like that's actually the market price there's no need to arb at all okay which is kind of funny to think about but
it's like kind of what it would be right yeah i mean okay kind of remarkable in some sense okay
got it everybody's buying and selling xmr on thor chain like their full i don't know what their
volume sounds good to me i would love that
how much what is the daily trade volume for xmr i'm curious when i look it up i'll wear
i'm not sure right now it's the 16th largest coin it's trading at 343 uh daily volume is about 100
million a little less than 100 million so i wouldn't mind getting 100 million trade volume
on thort chain i wouldn't complain i would suspect it would increase due to the ease.
If we made a simple way for people to go into layer one to layer one XMR,
I think a lot of the reason why maybe that volume isn't more is just the friction.
People just don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, logically speaking, anybody who is an XMR holder, right,
is a person, I would guess, believes in privacy
and probably wants to keep it private that they hold XMR or whatever.
And to get in and out of XMR without needing to give up your passport
and all this kind of information,
I think that would be very exciting for anybody who is an XMR holder.
But that's just me.
Okay, so Chad, what about...
So we're going to support Zcash soon, but I believe it's
unshielded, right? What about having a shielded Zcash pool on Thorchain? Yeah, so that would be
the next step if we wanted to go that direction. It's debatable to me whether we want that or not,
to be honest with you, because you can go unshielded to get in and out of the the chain right and then as soon as you go
from unshielded you can move into a shielded address personally locally you know without
anybody else really being involved in the process i guess being shielded would give you like an
extra layer of like ease or something like this i suppose but i i don't see a huge amount of value
there but i'm happy to be wrong.
I know like, I'm pretty sure Maya
is looking into adding shielded addresses on theirs.
And I'd be curious to see what their volume is,
you know, shielded versus unshielded,
or once they added shielded,
how much more volume, like overall,
you know, Zcash volume that they increased.
They can be kind of a canary in the coal mine
that can let us know
whether, you know, how much value that is. And if they do it, then we could probably just like
copy and paste their code and bring it to us as they've done, you know, on their side from us.
So I don't think it'd be that valuable personally. That's my knee jerk kind of hot take,
but I'm happy to be proven wrong if I am. Well, I know we don't have much more time you have to go interview
somebody we have a few minutes and maybe you know maybe we shut before that time so you can have a
time to you know chill your brain if we're going to go interview somebody but is there anything
else chad that you want to say that you feel like we've missed or anything that comes to mind at all
um i think uh Go ahead.
I was going to say that there's a bunch of things that are in-flight that I'm excited about.
RapidSwap is being one of those.
I think once 316 goes out, we can flip that one on and see how... Hopefully that goes in a good way, of course.
I'm still trying to get zero-conf Bitcoin trading.
I'm trying to get that through 17
so that we can get faster trades
and be more competitive against our swap kit competitors
in some sense,
and just get people able to trade more efficiently.
Both rapid swaps and this feature
are both about just improving the speed,
the speed of money in some sense,
and get us better in that particular way.
The other thing we've been talking about is the extra income that the reserve makes
from various places throughout the system of getting that kind of rolled into system income.
So you'll probably see like a five-ish percent increase in system income from that change alone.
I thought that was already done.
We did it, but it's not flipped on yet.
So it's in the code.
We just need to flip it on, and we just haven't gotten around to doing that quite yet.
There's another conversation that I think Boone opened up an ADR or is planning to open an ADR to burn the reserve.
So that has to work with that in some sense because they're both kind of like
touching the same thing at the same time. That's another thing.
And then the other thing that I'm interested about is that like we have some
over solvency in the network where over the years we've just collected a little extra Bitcoin
here and there, a little extra Ethereum here and there. How much money it is?
I think it's, I want to say it's $3 million in total
that we've just naturally collected over years and years of just places.
And I think that money will probably go to the treasury because whenever we, you know,
funds get lost into the network, the treasury was the one that like sent the Bitcoin back to
the person who lost the Bitcoin or whatever the hell it was. So it makes sense to put that back
towards the Treasury.
And it wouldn't be bad for the Treasury to get some extra money in it, which is what
funds this whole thing to begin with.
So I don't think people would have much of an issue with that.
So that's another thing I would like to see happen in the nearest future.
It'd be nice.
Bear markets are for building, right?
This is the time to invest, right? I know financially, I know all of us are are for building, right? And like, this is the time to invest, right? You
know, I know financially, we're all our, I know we're all our, all of us are already all in,
right? None of us have any more money. But like, but as the project, see that the money, I'm happy,
that sounds great to me, have the money go to the treasury. And I would love to see you guys spend
it. Like actually, like, let's not just hold on to it, let's actually put it to work,
because I get it, you can hold on to Bitcoin or Rune, it's going to be worth more five years from
now. But the work we do today can put us so much further ahead five years from now, because that
work we do today compounds in those five years, right? Yeah, as the Rune price or Bitcoin price
kind of compounds in some manner of speaking, right?
Yeah.
The work would too in some ways.
Yeah.
So I'd love to see you guys put that actually to work,
you know, to bring on,
means hiring an extra person,
doing an extra thing, whatever.
I think that'd be great.
I think it's great.
I don't speak for the community.
I'm pretty sure I'm positive the community would love to see that too
because it kind of brings life that things are happening, right?
Things are getting done.
And it's not just sitting around waiting for a bull market.
Like we're making – we're becoming agents in our success.
We're making things happen.
We're trying to – yeah.
Yeah, I mean the marketing team is a really good example of that, right?
Yeah, totally.
We launched that in the bear market, right?
And we're investing into, you know, building that side of our, you know, our community or ecosystem, if you want to call it that.
I'm hiring on the dev side, just to get more devs into it, you know?
I'm also hiring on the AI side, right?
Hiring Hugen in a matter of matter speaking growing hugan myself or whatever but like we're investing into it to
change the fundamentals of the project now so we get the you know exponential return on the on the
other side you know when we do both you know yeah part of that three million i would love for the
treasury that three million to subsidize as many frigging tokens as you need. You can work as hard as he can.
Yeah,
maybe it all goes to Hugen.
Sorry,
Chad,
you're wrong.
Yeah.
$3 million in Hugen tokens.
Yeah.
I might,
I might just like buy another max plan,
which you're not supposed to do.
Don't tell everybody tell Anthropoc that I'm thinking about doing this.
Cause I'll get pissy,
but like quiet everybody quiet. Uh, or maybe I'll just use like this because I'll get pissy. But like, shh, quiet everybody, quiet.
Or maybe I'll just use like a competitor, I'll use the codex instead.
That way it's not, you know, breaking any rules or something like this.
But like I might do that, you know, because it's like those plans are so much more cheap,
you know, like per token than just buying the raw SDK, you know, API tokens.
So like I'm trying to be as frugal as I can.
And I think we're looking into cutting some costs some places.
For example, we've been spending a bunch of money on the GitLab,
you know, like lots of money per month just to have seats for developers to contribute to things.
And we haven't been using the open source program that they have on GitLab. Why? I don't know. That's just the way it would have been. So we're looking at a
bunch of things that we can do to reduce our cost of operation. But at the same time, we're hiring
devs to increase our throughput and increase our talent, our skills in that way, and being just
more frugal in the right places and spending money in other right places to get a maximum return on our dollars, right?
Our satoshis, I should say, to improve this protocol.
And the Treasury is quite healthy.
I don't know how much money it is.
I think it's like 8 million or – last I heard it was like 8 million or 10 million, the number was dollars in total value in the treasury plus maybe this three million whatever that number is going to be as a
little like addition to that so we're like really healthy we have plenty of runway for years and
years and years to come and that's assuming that everything stays where it is now the current
prices of bitcoin and ruin and whatnot which is obviously i don't think anybody believes we're
going to be where we are now in you know five-wise. So we have lots of space, lots of time. The treasury is healthy. It's well-protected,
like all these things. I have a question. I know you got to go. I hate asking new questions,
but the over-insolvency, does this mean this over-solvency issue is gone or will we always
Or will we always collect a little over solvency?
collect a little over-solvency? So is this something that's repeatable in the future?
So is this something that's repeatable in the future?
That's a good question.
I don't actually know when the over solvency happened.
My guess is a lot of it happened like in 2021, you know?
And the prices of Bitcoin today are a lot higher than even now than it was in 2021, right?
Makes sense.
And so that's partially why the number is so large, not because
we've had $3 million worth of bugs necessarily, but just because we got trapped some Bitcoin back
in 2020 even, right? When Bitcoin was like $4,000 or whatever the price was at that time or whatever
the number was. And the prices has gone up over time. I suspect that we've been better and more
mature over the years.
We have less bugs and we just have less of a surplus or less of catching per block or per year or whatever the thing is.
We could do an analysis to figure out the answer to this question.
I'm not sure if I really care that much.
Yeah.
I think what we've done is we've just made a blanket code change that does an analysis of how much we have in the pools, how much we have in the vaults, how much we have in secured assets and, you know, intents and all these different things.
We're just like juggling like 15 different balls at the same time and then figuring out like where all the balls are, you know, which is a little bit of surplus we just start kind of like peeling a little bit off at a time and just swapping it to rune sending it to the treasury you know and then
we just collect that room over there and then we you know spend it as we want to spend it so this
this surplus is this like does this mean swappers were kind of getting a little bit less than they
should have or like where's it no free lunch so who who lost this? It was most, I suspected what was happening,
like it wasn't like you didn't get all the Bitcoin
you were supposed to get or something like this.
It's more like you made a trade,
there was some bug in the system
that just swallowed your trade entirely.
And then you complained to the protocol,
oh, I got this trade and I didn't get my Bitcoin out of it
or whatever the thing is.
And then most probably the treasury are just like, oh, here's your Bitcoin to kind of cover the cost of it so you get your money back.
And over the years, as the prices have gone up and have had more and more opportunity for more trades to happen,
where there's some sort of edge case that was caught or whatever or bug that wasn't fixed or something like this, that's my guess.
I don't actually know the answer to the question.
That's probably the most likely scenario is that there's a whole bunch of trades that happened over the time span of the last five years, six years, that just kind of fell through the cracks in one place or another and just got stuck there.
And we've been trying to, you know.
Or somebody might have was doing a manual trade, went to an old pool address or whatever.
Yeah.
We'd have to go to current address, I guess.
Even retiring?
Like, you could have done a trade where we didn't even observe it.
I don't know.
There's lots of scenarios that could have happened.
And we've been fixing them as we find them along the road to create a more stable, solid,
reliable protocol.
But I think the vast majority of that money, I'm guessing, because I don't actually know,
it just came from price appreciation, right?
Like, it wasn't like, we didn't really capture $3 million worth of bugs.
I suspect it was closer to like $100K.
And in the time span, things just gotten more valuable.
Okay.
Well, guys, I know we're coming up to the end of this space.
Do you think we guys should leave it here?
I think it's a pretty good way to end it.
I know you've got to go, Chad, and I want to make sure we respect your time.
Let Chad go.
I just have a couple other things we can go over quick.
Okay.
Sounds good, man.
All right, guys.
I'm going to hop off.
You guys have a good time.
And I'll see you guys all next Thursday.
I'll do love it, man.
Thank you, buddy.
It's so great talking to you.
Yep.
Later, guys.
Good luck.
So, yeah, I just so great talking to you. Yep. Later, guys. Good luck. So,
yeah, I just want to
Bitcoin Las Vegas.
I'm going to go.
Are you
going, Denny? I'm going now.
So, and I'm
thinking about doing like a side event, a meetup,
something, you know, get
us all the Thor Chads together.
And so, and then also too, like like people to invite friends like hopefully get some you know if you meet someone at the conference bring
them along right introduce them to thor chain um so i think i want to organize something uh and
but i i need to get an idea of how many people. Do you know, or does the audience, does the community know,
is there any kind of like a website,
some kind of free tool that I can use that people can RSVP
and that I can get kind of a head count of how many people would show up
and then I can plan accordingly, like what kind of venue,
what size, what do I need to do?
Interesting question. i'll source
around i'll ask around and see if i can get you a good thing and then we can make a list and then
figure it out yeah all right i don't know off top of my head i know they're there i just don't know
what they're it has to exist yeah yeah i know um and then uh and i i don't even try looking online
so i just this is the first i'm kind of bringing it up thinking about it um do you so you're familiar
with vegas denny you go there the strippers all the time from what i hear um yes i'm joking i do
um please pardon i said cocaine as well please get me right okay cocaine strippers blackjack
um do you know any spots uh like that we could go like off the strip right dude like
um wow i mean there are so many i mean las vegas is literally the food capital of the world one of
them right i mean there are so many potentials i mean uh whatever what kind of food do you want i
mean you want thai you want anything i mean this is just the best fake house in the world like man
well so many possibilities
i'm guessing we're gonna have we can get maybe we'll get 30 people maybe 50 so i don't know if
it can be like an actual sit-down restaurant um uh might have to be a bit of a bar that has
appetizers or something and i was thinking just figure that out i was thinking we'll just do
appetizers.
But again, it depends.
I mean, if only 10 people want to show up, then fine.
We could just get a table at a restaurant somewhere, right?
I have no idea.
I have no idea how many people.
So that's why I need to start kind of putting it out there and get a feel, get an idea.
Then we can plan around that.
Yeah, basically, i was just thinking
you know marketing team will pay for this you know some some drinks and some appies you know we can all get together i'll meet each other and you know shake hands hug high five each other um
and if people you meet anyone at the conference you want to bring them along, great. It's half, I'm not expecting this to be like,
my primary thought for doing this is for morale.
If we're all there, we're going to all get together,
we can all meet up and have some fun together.
And then the secondary goal is introducing new people to Thorchain.
And that's why, in my mind,
just kind of keep it simple and casual.
It doesn't have to be a big production.
Like, I'm not going to put a whole bunch of money or effort into, you know,
this extravagant side event or anything like that.
We can worry about that next year, next Bitcoin conference type deal.
Yeah, I kind of want to get, I know I'm rambling a bit,
but let me just finish my thought.
Yeah.
Before we get into really, you know really side events, doing conferences properly,
I kind of want to get these other things done and going.
I think it's better to spend our money on some paid ads and whatnot
and some partnerships where we get more visibility than just a conference.
A conference is like you're going more for quality than quantity, right?
And so, yeah, they're expensive to get the booths and all that kind of stuff.
And not even guaranteed a speaking slot.
So, yeah, I did look into it for the Bitcoin conference, guys.
I feel like it's just not worth it right now.
And we just don't have, we're not ready to kind of like plan that.
Next year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think we'll be ready next year.
Oh, 100% next year.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Cool.
So, yeah.
Anyone in the audience, if you guys are interested, you know, tag me on Twitter.
See if you want to go.
I'll try and find out.
We'll try and find some kind of tool, something online. I can collect
RSVPs. Yeah. I'll start asking around the community. I mean, word will spread naturally,
of course, but I'm pretty sure we'll have a decent group that'll want to go. This is always so much
fun. Guys, if you have never gone to a Thor chain meetup, and I haven't met Kenton yet. I think I've
known Kenton for three years now. I've not met this guy. That's crazy. I've met Chad. I've met so many other people.
I've not met Kenton. It's my first time meeting Kenton in real life, so that'll be really great.
But if you've not gone to a Thor Chain meetup, I'm telling you guys, it is the best experience.
You're with people that just understand. You cannot have these conversations with your family,
usually, because they just don't get it, right right when you are filled in a room with the people who like understand everything about Thor chain they've
been there in the history they know all the stuff it's just a whole different experience guys it's
just it's just like the best feeling I cannot emphasize in this stuff so if you're thinking
about going go go because it is so much fun I just I can't get enough if I could do it every
day I would I love hanging out with people in the crypto space particularly people in Thor chain
It's just some of the best and coolest individuals and when you finally get to put faces
Towards like avatar pictures. It just it just makes a community so much stronger. You're right Kenton
This is not only a morale, but when you establish that human connection
That is everything like you there's a form of trust
There's a form of trust there's a form of
understanding when you finally like look someone in the eye for real you do like shake their hand
like you interact with them you laugh them you share a drink or smoke a cigar whatever it is
that is irreplaceable there is no live stream that we could do that would ever replace that moment
right so i'm really looking forward to it and i hope i hope you people do go because this is
something that i think it's worth your time. It is worth your time.
Trust me.
I promise you.
I live for it every year.
Yes.
Dude.
Dude.
Yeah, I hang out with Alex, dude.
Alex, he's a Mexican in cigars.
It's just like, yes.
Well, then for sure, we're going for cigars in Vegas.
Yep.
Yep.
We're going to take Alex with us, too, because he will not.
He will refuse to let us go by ourselves. He loves cigars that much. Nice. Definitely. All right. We'll Alex with us too. Cause he won't, he will not, he will refuse to let's go by ourselves.
He loves cigars that much.
So nice.
Definitely.
We'll get Alex too.
We'll go for cigar.
I was thinking maybe,
maybe we find a cigar bar and do a meet up there,
but I know not some people just,
it's a bit much.
I'll see.
We'll see.
They might.
Yeah.
Well,
I know that that might be a bit too intense for some people that don't
smoke,
but,
for us anyway, we can, we can we can go um cool 100 if he wants to go shoot guns or blow up stuff in
the desert just let me know i'll take you yeah all right dude i've always wanted to shoot a propane
tank with a shotgun i can make that happen sure that'd be yeah that'd be yeah yeah that'd be cool
i'll buy it. Is that?
Dude, propane tanks are cheap.
Don't worry about it.
I know.
I'll buy a propane tank.
But, like, can you actually get in trouble for doing it?
Like, or you just go far enough in the middle of nowhere and no one's going to know?
We just go in the desert, and whatever happens is between us, the desert, and Jesus.
Who cares?
You know what I mean?
Like, that's how it is.
I mean, Las Vegas is surrounded by desert.
Look, I'm an American, right? i do whatever the hell i want to do you know kiss my ass that's
how it is and if i want to go out and shoot my guns and go blow things up i can do that
that's and that's that's what we will do nice okay you can't you're are you in arizona yes
you can yes i can yes i can take my weapons into las vegas i can yes you can take
them across state lines like a license for that or something or is that no that is no
yep oh you can travel on the highway in the state now some states will say it's illegal but they're
on constant shit bags of states and uh they need to all be arrested and thrown in prison for
committing treason against the american people right the constitution is quite clear it shall not be infringed and that's how i live so yes it is legal
nice nice right on awesome all right awesome okay cool you guys want to go shoot guns then you'll
come hang out with kenton and i and we will go do that it'll be a lot of fun right on well should we
wrap this up i think so i think so guys please spread the word about
the meetup and btc uh las vegas guys um help us do that and try and let us know if you have some
ideas suggestions this is totally open right this is all community stuff so okay guys let's wrap this
thing up um i guess this is the last time i'm going to say this if you're a go developer and
if you are watching this right now and you want to go on ThorChain, you need to DM Chad right away because it sounds like he's
about ready to hire somebody next week. So if you want the job, now's his time. If you were like the
most amazing Go developer and you just happen to watch this now, do it. Guys, if you'd like to be
a node operator, become a node operator and need some help, please reach out to at runetard on x he can
help you set up a note and find bond providers i'll help you too i'll do whatever i can to help
you we love increasing decentralization of thor chain as we said earlier thor chain is here to
economically liberate the world and in order to do that we have to be decentralized the security
posture of thor chain is now based on decentralization. So that is our goal. For ThorChain data and insights,
you guys, please follow Ray Analytics.
That's at Ray, R-A-Y
Analytics, N-A-L-Y-T-I-C-S.
Sorry about that.
R-A-Y-N-A-L-Y-T-I-C-S.
He produces
really simple
recaps for all these live streams.
They're very helpful. So if you're time
constrained, you're watching right now and you want that,
give him a follow.
He produces it every time he spends a lot.
He works really hard on them.
Thank you, Ray.
I really appreciate it.
And guys, always remember,
the views are solely of those of the hosts and guests.
Any action taken based on this information
is at your own risk.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Okay, guys?
This Saturday, we are going to be having the Liquify boys.
I got to meet a few of them in Las Vegas, actually, last year.
So I'm really looking forward.
Hopefully, I talk to the same ones.
Maybe I'll meet new.
Who knows?
But those guys are super, super awesome.
You guys do not want to miss that at all.
And then next week, Saturday, I have a BTC whale coming on.
And pretty cool guy. Influencer. Pretty funny. I have a BTC whale coming on and a pretty cool
guy, influencer, pretty funny. I've been interacting
with him the last few days and I can't wait
to talk to that guy either. So with that being
said, Kenton, do you have anything else before we really
wrap it up for real? That's great. Thanks, guys.
Thanks, everyone. Thank you, guys.
Have a great rest of your week. We will see you
Saturday. Take care now. Bye-bye.
