Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
THORCHAIN & ZANO LIVESTREAM
Recorded: March 14, 2026 Duration: 1:43:43Space Recording
Full Transcription
Arizona. What is going on, everybody? It is Saturday. It is that time of the week where we
get to talk with some really cool people from other ecosystems. We absolutely love doing that.
That's what this whole project is about, is connecting chains and connecting communities.
And that's what we're going to do today. Let's get this intro out of the way, you guys, so we
can get down to business. For those who don't know, 4Chain is the world's leading Bitcoin decks.
You can swap Bitcoin with 10 different blockchains across 40 different pools
without using bridges or WRAP tokens.
Check it out at swap.thorchain.org.
Swap.thorchain.org.
Anyone in the world can use ThorChain.
There is no account open.
No KYC is required.
ThorChain has two tokens, RUNE and TY. The fees for swapping on ThorChain are
paid in RUNE, and that's where the yield comes from. The fees are deducted from swap, so you
don't need to own RUNE to trade on ThorChain. 10% of the protocol's revenue goes to TCY token
holders. Remember to stake your TCY tokens in order to start collecting this yield. There are no inflationary block rewards.
Therefore, the yield is real money paid by real users.
Rune is also deflationary as 5% of the revenue is burned.
ThorChain is a full layer one with the ability to create smart contracts on it.
Similar to Ethereum, this app layer is being developed by Rujira.
If you need help with ThorChain in general,
join the Thorchain
community Discord and Telegram group. Links for those are on Thorchain.org. Thorchain.org.
Please follow Thorchain on Facebook and Instagram, you guys. Also, Thorchain Contact on TikTok. We
need 1,000 followers to live stream on those platforms. Let's get it done so we can put this
show on there as well. And always remember,
guys, this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute
financial investment or legal advice. And with that out of the way, you guys, it is time. My
name is Denny. I go by Patriot Sound as well. I do the RuneBot account on X. I've been educating
Thorchain for half a decade now. I love it. I'm addicted to it. I will never stop. stop go ahead and kick it to my main man kenton if he's got an update for us and then we
will get this part sorry how you doing kenton i'm good thanks yeah thanks denny um uh i i
i think update from thursday not much different um the massari dashboard went live on monday um
so and it's public.
Anyone can look at it.
Anyone can use it, share it, play with it.
You know, if you guys, if you find, you know, if you find a mistake or something like that, please let me know.
If there's a chart or something in there you think should be added, let me know.
It's ours to do what we want with, basically.
And so that went live on Monday. Let me know. It's ours to do what we want with, basically.
And so that went live on Monday.
I'm still working with them to finish getting ThorChain integrated in the rest of their platform.
So we're showing up in search results.
I've got a party link, an RSVP link going for Bitcoin Vegas.
So if anyone's going to be in las vegas for the bitcoin conference
uh you want to come to a meetup you know meet us in person meet some your fellow thor chads
um i picked sunday at 7 pm and i figured uh uh i figured sunday is probably the best chance people have not much going on um when the conference
starts on monday and tuesday maybe people are busy you know go do stuff whatever um so i thought
sunday would be we'd have a better turnout and um i don't know where we're going to do this because
i have no idea how many people are interested are coming so i need to get a head count before i can
try and find a venue to do this so uh if you you you're going to go, if you think you're going to be there, please RSVP.
And once we get a bit closer, I have a decent enough headcount, I'll start looking for a spot.
If it's going to be a bigger group, like say over 20 or 30 people, then I'll probably be off the strip somewhere.
You know, find somewhere relatively cheap. And it's not just for ThorChads. If you have friends or someone, you know,
want to introduce the ThorChain, absolutely bring them along, right? This is the point.
Well, it's two points. One is for us, you know, to get together, you know, have some fun,
kind of raise morale. And then hopefully everyone in Thor,
all the Thor Chads are all pumped and jacked.
We go to the conference the next day,
tell everyone about Thor Chain.
And then, and also too, yeah,
if you don't want anybody who's maybe Thor Chain curious,
bring them along so we can push them over the edge.
So everyone's welcome.
Everyone's invited. And i got a new link
denny did you see it so that's yes i did yeah yes i did i think this one's this one's better than
the last one uh yeah i didn't need to give my phone number on this one so no perfect no phone
no phone number no it does ask for your name you can put whatever make one up yeah yeah create user just um
um and that's it so should we just try to think here i can post it in the text
let's start in the chat um here's the link you guys
and uh xano you guys are welcome are you guys if you guys i know you're zano but
if you're there you're welcome as well everyone's welcome to hang out with us so
you know that's how it is uh so love it i see it there soda max um
i did not think of a poll um i'm just kind of just like i kind of just got to pick something
and go with it um you might be right though too uh because i'm sorry to interrupt you captain because monday
that's where like you only go to the bitcoin conference on that day that's more exclusive
um and it's a lot more expensive so i'm thinking people might actually show up monday with no
intention to go to the bitcoin conference on the first day but just to get there
right um and then monday
like because they they just get their hotel and they just wait for the next two days then they
go to that because it's like what five thousand dollars or something for the first day so maybe
monday is actually the correct day um okay all right feedback receive how about this why don't
i put it in um uh in the i have to pick a day for the invite, right?
So I'll leave it as Sunday, but I'll put it in the description.
When you RSVP, tell me what day you can do.
And then we can kind of just, we'll see, we'll get a tally of what day is best for everybody.
Okay, Soda, Max, I see it.
He agrees with Benny.
Okay.
All right, fair enough.
So I'll ask everybody,
tell me which day they can do.
Sunday, Monday, just Sunday or Monday?
Yeah, Sunday, Monday.
We're going to get split between all three days.
I'd rather just one or the other.
Yeah, Sunday or Monday would be my...
Sunday or Monday?
Okay.
Yes.
Soda, Max, you cool with that? Sunday or Monday? that's the only two choices i'm gonna give ask people what do you think yeah can you text us i don't know guys i don't know if you
can see we gotta if you click on chat on the right you can you can see the public chat um
yeah i'm sure i'm sure he'd be down with that come on soda max yeah i gotta hear from this
i gotta hear from the the peanut gallery i'll just do sunday or monday is that cool yes all right
okay he's not saying anything i'm gonna i'm gonna make an executive call say yes all right all right
um are you a karen are you being a karen soda um okay so i'll do that i'll change
that then send there monday um that's all i got for you guys perfect yeah all right well
go ahead kenton i'm sorry i'm excited to chat with Zeno. You guys, we had the guy,
Quentin and Gonzalez came on a little bit earlier.
Denny's like asking him, he's already in it.
He's already asking him all the questions that we want to ask and hear answers to.
I can't help it.
Let's jump right into this.
Guys, if you can give us a quick intro
about yourselves and Zeno,
and then we can get more into the weeds.
Sure. Yes. And good to be here, guys. Thank you for having us on your show. My name is Quinten.
I'm the head of marketing and growth at the Xano project for, I believe, five years and counting
now. Still very much as excited as I was five years ago, maybe even more excited
to bring the word out about Zano because it's clearly a really cool project. So Zano has its
own blockchain and basically everything is private by default at the protocol level.
The cool thing is Zano is super versatile. So we have our own decks via ionic swaps,
which are like atomic swaps.
We have Xano aliases, which are like on-chain usernames, kind of like NFTs, like how NFTs work.
And our flagship feature are confidential assets.
So anyone, no matter who you are, where you're at, can create their own privacy tokens on top of the Zano blockchain.
And this is a really interesting feature because this can be used for all kinds of purposes,
like privacy stable coins, making your Bitcoin and Ethereum private, but also private NFTs,
you name it, basically anything that needs privacy that would benefit from privacy,
you can tokenize on the Zano blockchain.
And on top of that, we have a hybrid consensus.
We're going full proof of stake soon.
We can get into that later, which is also really interesting.
Makes us blazing fast compared to the OG privacy
by default projects.
Yeah, that's Zano in a nutshell.
There's much more to talk about,
but let's save that for later.
Hey guys, I'm Gonzalo. to go for it i'm the head of
community at zano and uh yeah really glad to be here i i really like torchchain i think it respects
the main ethos of cryptocurrency which is to be permissionless bitcoin was permissionless didn't
discriminate any user and to me that's the entire point of crypto.
I go into crypto because I was denied a bank account.
And so crypto was my lifeline at the time.
And to me, that's 100% the requirements I ask for any crypto project to be permissionless,
and Torcheney, so I think it's a perfect match.
So Gonzaloalo can I ask
you when you said you were denied a bank account this this had nothing to do with crypto this is
based on where you live yes I'm Argentinian really wow so you that's that's that well one I'm sorry
to hear that man that's that's terrible more specifically i was denied a us dollar bank account which forced me to
stay on argentinian pesos which were you know developed saying like 200 a year so so i'm i'm
curious like uh what like i hear i mean you you're you're literally the reason why crypto is invented
right so like uh i'm wondering if we can actually explore
that a little bit more like do you have other friends family who've done the same like they've
had the same experience as you and they've had to move to crypto um like what's it like
it's a special it's a requirement for example if you work through for abroad so in order to get
money into it this is no longer the case by the way
because of melee and stuff uh but back then in order to get money into the country the only way
was crypto basically either crypto or pay like lose like 70 of the money on the way so it was
useless uh so any anyone working remote in argent Argentina was being paid on crypto or at least like using
some company that was dealing crypto and then the company gave them fiat.
But crypto was like the main bridge.
Wow.
So to me, that's absolutely necessary.
Like if I see any project that discriminates people based on, for example,
their nationality, to me, that's a no go. Yeah. Yeah. So it's better now with Melee?
Like you don't have those issues? Yes. There's still a long way to go, but at the
least, banks are no longer useless. So yeah. Yeah. Cool. But obviously i'm still in crypto because i learned that even you know things can
change at any moment and with crypto i can just take my money anywhere and it's actually my money
yeah well so so i understand uh that driving you into crypto you know at a necessity what got you
into a privacy coin so there's lots of other tokens out there, right?
Why XANA? Why privacy?
Well, over time I realized that...
So first I got into regular stablecoins.
Then I learned that those could be frozen.
So I moved to decentralized assets.
And then as, you know, just working on the crypto space,
I realized that, for example, my employer could see my transactions or what I do with i realized that for example my employer could
see my transactions or what i do with like for example any airdrop tokens uh and it was i was
not really comfortable with that um i also in argentina there are many stuff that you can
buy with crypto so i realized that whenever i buy something like for example a laptop I can just look into the vendor's
account and see how much balance they have and so they can do the same with me and to me that
didn't make any sense and it was I felt very unsafe so that's why I got into at that time
Monero and I realized because I realized that in order for something to be truly permissionless, it needs to be private as well.
So that's what got me to Monero.
And then I got into Xano because it basically took Monero's tech.
Well, there's a longer story there, but it's basically Monero's tech, but it goes beyond peer-to-peer digital cash.
And you can do tokens, you can do dApps, you can do DEXs.
So I have a lot of respect for both projects,
and I'm super glad to be working on Zeno here
because to me, this is the kind of tech that matters to me
and to so many people in the world.
Absolutely.
So is Zeno, like, maybe it's getting tol then is it is it like a fork of Monero
like how is it completely brand new and separate and distinct from Monero so actually our co-founder
was the lead developer of crypto note he worked along us along with Nicholas van Sauerhaagen. So they created a crypto node and then Monero took the crypto node code base and forked and it's Monero now.
But our co-founder kept working on crypto node and kept interacting. He launched Bulberry, which later became Xano.
And so we shared a lot of technologies because we share like this point in history, but we are, of course, like 10 years apart.
So it's a different code base by now. But if you go into Monero source code, you'll actually find the name or co-founder in there. Oh, cool. Awesome.
So how long has...
You said 10 years apart.
So how long has Xano been around then?
Xano itself has been around since 2019.
But the code base, it's been around 2013.
Cool.
Danielle, did you want to jump in?
I know you're banging on with questions before we start.
Well, yeah.
Well, here's the thing, you guys.
To give a little history here,
I've been talking, I believe it's you, Gonzalo,
on X Spaces, right?
You're the one I've been talking to on Joel's space.
And I have to just say,
these guys share our ethos to a T.
And you just heard it for himself.
I mean, what was the impetus for him coming into crypto as one of necessity? have to just say this these guys share our ethos to a t and you just heard it for himself i mean
what was the impetus for him coming into crypto is one of necessity and that's what thor chain is
it is a one of necessity a free permissionless decentralized world we remove from the state the
ability to affect fiat currency which hurts so many people the individual in this live stream
is a living example of that right it? It's like a force function. Like
he has to do this. He has to do this, not only for his own wellbeing, but for the rest of the
world as well. So I want one thing clear before we really get into the weeds of Zano is that the
Zano people are our people. And it's like, I always say, guys, a lot of people, I think it's
Paul from Edgewallet says, we're all trying to solve the same problem. We're all going to meet
in the middle. I think this is a perfect example of that.
So shout out to you, buddy.
I'm really glad that you're on the show.
I've talked to you a lot and you're just a solid individual.
You can't fake being solid.
Eventually over enough time that you lose that genuine nature if you're being fake.
So, and I'm good at smelling that out.
I don't get that at all with you.
So I'm going to actually come to Quentin here.
So Quentin, basically, you know, Xano,
privacy tech, right? Like, what do you foresee it being on, like, if we could add it to Thorchain,
right? Because, see, you're right, Kenton, I should not ask questions beforehand, because
now I get confused. Like, okay, so Xano has an update it's gonna be making in in two months right
roughly or so maybe talk about that quanta i'm gonna give you the floor and then we'll go from
there sure yes so um one of the major problems that uh many privacy utxo blockchains have is
that it's super hard to get uh adoption because it's super hard usually to integrate
these blockchains. I think you guys have had your own experience with that when it comes to Monero.
I'm not sure where that integration is at, by the way, I just know that at some point it was
being talked about. But, you know, these integrations are, you know, hard to realize, very resource heavy. And simply, for example, with Zano,
it's kind of impossible or nearly impossible for something like TorChain to support us
because of the privacy by default, right? You have no balances to work with, which is like
a requirement for something like TorChain. And, you know know that really holds adoption for privacy blockchains
back and also for Zano. So we've been thinking you know to come up with a
solution for that and we don't want to have optional privacy for another number
of reasons we can get into later. But so Zano is entirely private by default but
we are going to introduce with hard fork six,
which is happening probably early May,
maybe end of April, the gateway addresses.
And I'm actually in the middle of writing
like a huge article on it,
will be released in a couple days,
so everyone can read up on this and get informed.
But basically it's a new type of ZANO address
that is instead of the regular ZANO addresses
which are UTXO based and completely private
these gateway addresses are account based
so basically they enjoy instant sync
and they are also transparent
so there are balances to work with for services
so these gateway addresses are not meant for regular users
but specifically made with for services. So these gateway addresses are not meant for regular users,
but specifically made with the services in mind, right?
And this is super exciting,
because the gateway address itself
sounds a bit boring to me,
but the things that could come from this
are very exciting,
because it basically closes the gap
between adoption and being private by default, right?
So then, when we have this live, in theory, ThorChain could support ZANO.
And since ZANO has confidential assets, it could also support its confidential assets
like private Bitcoin, private ETH, private Solana, private stable coins like Freedom
Dollar, private DAI, you name it.
And it would be, of course, very interesting to swap those in a completely
decentralized way cross chain via thor chain um so that is what the gateway addresses can realize
uh in for us in practice and we could also get on a lot of like another a lot of other services
would also benefit from this right so um yeah that's in short what the gateway addresses will
do for us can i can i jump in Denny? Can I ask a question?
Go for it, brother.
I know you guys expressed interest in having Xeno at TorChain in the past before your gateway address.
Do you guys think it's possible then to have Xeno added without the gateway address?
I mean, I understand why the gateway address shouldn't make it much easier.
But do you think it's possible to add XANA without?
And if so, and if you did do it that way,
would that maybe help us be able to use a lot of that work
to get Monero added as well?
I'm curious what your thoughts are.
I think for that to happen,
Monero should be added first uh because i know
people working on this um i don't know if you know luke parker i know the name sarai yeah yeah
exactly so luke parker is doing like some heavy lifting to get monero into Sarai and he's like developing new cryptography even.
It's like very hard stuff and he's working on it for years but if his works end up coming through
then I think that work could be used to integrate Monero and then perhaps Sano without the gateway
addresses if that were needed. Okay so better to use your gateway addresses to do this
um yes it's much simpler guys as far as i'm concerned you know if i was a dictator of door
chain i'd be like done let's do it i want all the chains you know get everybody on there especially
a community like you like you guys are, like you want to be on there.
I think this is exactly what these are the types of tokens of blockchains we should prioritize,
people that actually want to be on ThorChain.
So I'd love to see you guys get on.
Hopefully, we can make it happen.
I'm in touch with StarSquid. I can run up by him and say, hey, these Xano guys are switched on.
They want to get involved.
They want to help.
And maybe we can pick up the conversation again.
Because I'm a huge fan.
Never take no for an answer, you guys.
Just keep asking until you get the answer you want.
So maybe we didn't have the people or the time or
whatever to do that on the past maybe maybe we do now so um i'd love to try and put you guys in touch
and see if see if there's something that can be done yes and uh can i add on to that um so you
know a lot of the so to add on thor chain Thorchain typically, now it's not the case with Solana and maybe some other chains,
but we run the layer one daemon, right?
Like a real Xano, basically, would be, as you know.
And so something node operators may be interested in is like,
what is the computational burden of a Xano daemon?
Maybe you could break that.
Either one of you can take that.
Is it really heavy, like Solana?
Can you give us a sense of what
that would be like?
No, nowhere near Solana.
I run it on a
mini PC with like
a Core i3 and
8 gigabytes of RAM.
But I think you can do it with way less. I'm seeing
people running on Raspberry Pi, although that might be a stretch. But it's... Okay, so it doesn't sound like it's
that heavy. So that's one of the main considerations, right? If you add an asset,
there is a cost for the node operators to run the infrastructure, right? And so the fees
generated by an asset should hopefully... I mean, we don't necessarily expect it on day one,
but should hopefully far exceed the cost to run it, right? We want a lot of swap volume. So, okay,
that's one box checked right there. We do have some questions from the audience here.
So let's just get right into it, okay? So the one question is, can they elaborate on their coin to
privacy vault? Multisig tss question mark
kick that to either one of you want to take it quinton want to take on it um yeah i mean i i'm
not sure if i entirely get the question so this is about bridging assets to zano and how that works
is that correct yes uh is it sodamax uh maybe i misunderstood you i i thought maybe he
he's asking how would the xanopool work on thor chain um maybe maybe uh let maybe clarify your
question soda we'll come back to it we do have more questions um so uh okay we'll do soda again so
um well this is this is assuming a lot okay but um well that's not a question i'm sorry
Well, this is assuming a lot, okay?
But that's not a question.
I'm sorry.
I apologize, guys.
What's the block time?
No, let's go back to the...
Okay, sure.
If Zano, if we did add a pool,
would your community, your treasury, whatever,
be willing to add liquidity to seed it?
Absolutely.
Hart, yes.
Love it.
Beautiful.
Denny was right.
The first problem, first question is,
what's the cost of the nodes to run,
to support the Xano infrastructure?
And the second one is, where's the liquidity actually coming from?
And if you guys are going to provide it, I mean, that's huge.
These things are very important for us as an ecosystem, right? You can see that still the shift happening towards more government overreach
and more tight restrictions with KYC and stuff on centralized exchanges.
So this is also one of the reasons why we introduced gateway addresses
because we want to get onto all these kinds of DEXs
because we think that is the solution.
And it will become more and more important over the years to come.
Well said.
Well said.
Awesome.
Okay, let's go to Koch's question.
Oh, I'm sorry, Kenton, do you have something else before I go?
Well, I was just going to say, yeah, just so with these,
I was just going to ask what the gateway address is.
So how does, so if, you know, I want to maintain my privacy
and I have Bitcoin and I come to ThorChain,
sought my Bitcoin for some Xano, but it's going through this gateway address.
Now is my Xano that I just bought, is this like somehow doxed?
Is it still public?
Do I need to go swap it into Xano again, like into a new address to now start getting my privacy how would that work?
No so um we'll see how the implementation goes but the idea of gateway addresses is that there's
not even a wallet from the end user perspective there's not even a wallet for gateway addresses. So it's just hop.
And what you withdraw from Torchain in this case,
it will go to your regular Sando address.
And this Sando address is private by default,
hidden amount, hidden sender, hidden receiver.
So the whole point is that you don't need to do
an extra step in order to be private.
Cool. And basically once a user like interacts
with a gateway address um it's still protected right because xano makes use of stealth addresses
and ring signatures so uh basically let's say you do a transaction to a gateway address then
you can see as an outsider like what was the asset type that was deposited into the gateway address, the amount,
but you cannot see where it came from, so the address.
And it also works this way when you send it out, so when a transaction happens from a gateway address to a Xano address,
it also leads to a dead end because everything with the regular Xano addresses is completely hidden and like private by default and also worth nothing
in your example you say something someone swapping bitcoin do xano because they want privacy
they can also swap their bitcoin to for example btcx which is private bitcoin on xano so if they
still wish to keep for example bitcoin, Bitcoin price exposure, but they want
ring signatures, cell addresses, confidential amounts, they can do that.
Well, listen, I say, no, let's go ahead, Danny. This details in the Sotomax question. Go ahead,
Danny. Well, how does that work? So, okay, like on Ethereum, right? Let's just use the Ethereum
example. We have ETH, obviously, and then we have the ERC20s.
Is it sort of like that where these assets, they obviously live on Xano blockchain?
And is it a heavy lift to add those to?
You know what I mean?
Or can you break that down a little bit?
There's just something I know nothing about.
So, yeah, in concept, it's similar to RC20.
It's not RC20.
It's a different protocol.
But yes, in theory, any server that integrates Xano will also support confidential assets on Xano.
A good example is the wallets.
Xano is supported by Edge Wallet, by Cake Wallet, Bitcoin.com wallet soon unstoppable wallet and once they
integrated the zano blockchain it they can essentially support any asset that lives on
zano very easily gotcha okay so so crystal clear if we have a zano runepool on thor chain it would
not be that much of a lift or hardly any lift at all to have a private bitcoin btcx i think you said brunepool
etc etc etc yes yes sounds cool to me okay kenton go ahead that that's what so soda max is asking
how do you how do you secure the assets on xano is it a multi-state bridge yeah So the bridge is handled by another project, which is called Bridgeless.
And yes, they use TSS.
So the whole point there is that there is no custodian
because there's no private key of the wallet holding the collateral,
in this case, Bitcoin.
Instead, it's distributed among all node operators on Bridgeless.
So at no point there is a custodian.
Would you, in theory, could you use door chain one day
to secure the Bitcoin that's on Xano?
I mean, that's up to bridge list,
but it sounds to me like, yes,
because they both use DSS.
I know it's a similar architecture
um interesting but wouldn't we wouldn't in theory thorche be competing with ridiculous like um sure
we're down we're down how does how does how does bridge list make money like what's what incentivizes them
so they take a fee on the on the bridge like a one-time fee or is it ongoing but that's
but the fee the fee is on on confidential layer side right gonzalo or no mistaken here oh there's
there's a double fee okay no uh not sure actually well but but the opener
does receive fees from the bridge itself so whenever you bridge bitcoin onto xano a small
percentage of that is taken but once you are on xano then no no more fees of course it's a one
time it's up front fee yeah yeah right now. Right now. We're bridging on bridge.
Yes. Yes. So you pay, when you bridge, you pay the network fee
of the network where you're bridging from, of course,
that is unavoidable.
And there are also bridge fees included.
And then again, on the, because the bridge basically
infrastructure is maintained by Bridgeless,
but then you have front-end like apps
for users to interact with.
Like right now there is Edge Wallet
that facilitates direct BTC to BTCX swaps
through Edge Wallet via the Bridges API,
and then you have Confidential Layer,
and that's called app.confidentiallayer.com,
and basically it's like a bridge interface, and it enables users to very
easily swap there, or like bridge there, Bitcoin to Zano, Ethereum to Zano, but also like Zano's not
the only chain that is like plugged into this, right? So also from Ethereum to Bitcoin or the other where the raise around. And I believe Confidential Layer has a 0.3% fee on top of all bridging.
And I think you can set it manually.
I think Edge has a different fee, but I'm not sure exactly what it's set to.
I've always, for me, the way I've always looked at ThorChain and envisioned it in like the big picture, the long run, is being the world's biggest, most secure custodian.
That, you know, right now we've got 100 nodes, so it's a giant, you know, 67 of 100, you know, vault.
You know, if we get to 300 nodes one day, it'll be a 200 of 300, right?
And so I've always viewed it
as like this really secure custodian.
And in theory, it should be able to, you know,
replace Bridgeless for you guys
and act, do this for you for projects like Xenol, right?
So it'd be interesting because because you know there's
all this i keep i keep i keep thinking we're gonna get rid of the hard cap and thort chain
i feel like that's probably gonna happen one day um as we would like to secure as many assets as
we could in theory um so yeah that's something it's interesting i like i'm trying to think how
this would work
because if you have the assets secured in a vault, right?
But then you have a pool on ThorChain
that people swap in and out of, like BTCX, for example.
But the Bitcoin is also in a vault.
And so that vault would be pretty busy, right?
Because you would constantly be arbitraging
the total amount in the pool against
the vault itself in order to maintain a one-to-one peg and so the i'm just trying to think of the
arbitrage behaviorism there that's really interesting and i'm curious right well as long
as well it's one bitcoin being held the one Bitcoin. In the pool. On Xano.
Yeah, but it's Bitcoin to Bitcoin, right?
Right.
But the prices fluctuate a Bitcoin.
That doesn't matter, right?
It's only if users are going in and out of Bitcoin, right?
Right.
But if we're securing the pool, we secure the pool too, right?
So it's like this is a wrapped exogenous asset.
the equity
in that pool is tied
to the vault in ThorChain.
It's because
WBTC on ThorChain,
that's by a third party. We're not
securing the WBTC, that's BitGo.
Yeah, but you got to think
about this like trade assets or secured assets.
They're not held in the pools, right?
They're held outside the pool.
Right, right, right. But, yeah,
that's true. That's true.
Yes, you're right. That's true.
It would just be on the base layer. It would be on the
base layer instead of the app layer, if that makes sense.
Right? Yeah.
This would be like a secured asset.
Right.
So, there's no with secured assets there's no yeah are being them balanced and everything like that they just
it's just bitcoin sitting sitting on the on thort chain held by thort chain nodes um
love to see this chef happen i mean we were only asking for uh
well we don't mess around here you guys are down for it then sure well it's this is a point of
talking right and brainstorming coming up with ideas like i don't know maybe what right we'll
watch we'll bring stuff to chad and tell us we're all stupid you guys that won't work
no no like to me from what you're saying it makes total sense
to me uh it's just like down to if you guys want to secure assets on sano um if you think it makes
sense then sure because because we're all decentralized maxis right so is bridge list
is that a centralized platform they're decentralized yeah they're decentralized as
well they use DSS all decisions go through the validators no one holds custody of the assets
how many nodes do they have you can go to bridgeless.com if you're interested yeah I
am interested because like I feel like this is something DoorChain should be competing on.
It's bridgeless.com.
Com, dot com.
Com, okay.
Right, because that's a middleman,
as Kenton says, right?
That's an intermediary.
And I'm curious how they would fare i mean
they're permissionless as you said i would be curious to strengthen decentralization i'm not
trying to talk shade or nothing like that but you know thor chain has come under enormous pressure
enormous pressure by our refusal to bend the knee on permissionless you guys have seen this right
like we've we don't the slot comes in the slot respect that right um and so that's and
that's a hill we're gonna we will die on this hill this is this has to be this way as you boys know
right i mean gonzalo you are a living example of this um and so you know this is why like we get we
do a talk we get right to the meat potatoes you know what i mean um and it just i for everyone
understand like the xano people they are our ethos.
Okay.
If you've never heard of Xano, if you've never heard of the team,
I've talked to these guys.
I've talked to Gonzalo numerous times on Joel's.
This is why I talk to as many people as I can.
Where are our boys at?
Where are our family at?
The people we don't know that are our brothers and sisters in this space
because we have to come together.
This is just absolutely paramount.
I don't think that's
in we're not blowing smoke up your ass no like it's true like this is especially after the bybit
stuff with door chain i feel pretty good that like everyone who's in door chain right now is like
full like we believe in freedom of speech decentralization um you know privacy like everyone is on board specifically for
people like you gozell this is what we're doing this for right and it's the unbanked the underbanked
people are going to live under a despotic government like people in iran you know i'm
seeing apparently they're all you know withdrawing their bitcoin as a way they're they're saving
right now i'm hearing stuff going on in dubai apparently you
know real estate is like collapsing there and the only way they can sell it is in crypto like this
is what it's all for and so um it's really really cool to have you guys be part of this yeah this is
invaluable to me uh i'm seeing i mean lately i've been seeing more privacy projects, privacy projects launch with a backdoor on it.
Like, what are we doing here?
Being able to find projects with the same ethos, it's so invaluable.
Can I answer that? I can answer your question, actually.
I know why they're doing this because everyone's bending the knee to money. And we're all trying to make money here, too. Don't get me question, actually. I know why they're doing this, because everyone's become, everyone's bending the knee to money. And I'm not, we're all trying to make money
here too. Don't get me wrong, guys. Like, I believe we can do really well in ThorChain
and Xano. Like, it's, that's probably the reason I'm doing this. But we don't have to
compromise our ideals to do it, right? And a lot of these other projects are, because
they want that institutional money, right?
They want the big dollars, the big tickets to come in.
And a lot of these institutional players,
they want KYC, they want AML
because they've already bent the knee.
And that's how they made their money,
by being compliant.
And that's what they're bringing to these crypto projects.
Like, hey, we'll invest 5, 10 a hundred million, but you have to be compliant.
Right.
And so they're bending the knee, putting in these back doors, adding KYC, whatever to appease the money gods to get right.
But not realizing, you know, they're selling their soul to do it.
And basically they're just they're basically just turning themselves into TradFi.
And it's like, what's the the point why are you guys doing this like the so you know what you guys
are doing you know the real permissionless private decentralized stuff like that's that's the value
add that's actually what built this whole this whole sector um so yeah good good for you guys
sector. So yeah, good for you guys.
Yeah, what will happen eventually when the backdoor leaks? I mean, we've seen all the
time in like Web 2, this massive database breaches, why do they think they're different?
I mean, this is financial transactions. It's so dangerous.
Yeah, even if you think that the governments themselves that can apply to have access to this backdoor,
if you think they will not have any malicious intent, the point Gonzalo makes is a really good point.
Like what if this backdoor view key ends up in the wrong hands, right?
It's just a matter of time before it goes wrong.
We've seen it with so many projects uh out there uh you know it could decrypt all the private bitcoin transactions then on that
specific chain and then it's not private anymore so in my opinion they shouldn't even be be allowed
to call it private bitcoin if it's not even permission essentially the kind of privacy
where you think you're private uh but're not, that's the worst.
Because at the very least, if you're transacting on
Bitcoin, then you know it's not private.
But if you think you're private
and one day suddenly you're not,
that's dangerous.
Yeah, totally. I totally agree.
I'm going to take a step back
here because
we're talking about potential ThorChain integration.
But I want to make sure we give you guys due.
If someone's watching this, we're live with the recording, and they want to buy Xano.
They love you guys.
They hear your ethos.
Right now, how do they get Xano?
Could you maybe break that down for us?
Sure.
I'd recommend everyone to go to xano.org slash exchanges.
And we have basically all the exchanges
that support Zano we have right there.
So all the swap platforms, all the centralized exchanges
and decentralized exchanges, which are not a lot,
by the way, at this moment,
because we need the gateway addresses, of course.
Right.
And for each user, like every user
has their own standards, right?
There are centralized exchanges that enforce KYC that support ZANO.
There are also centralized exchanges that do not enforce KYC for ZANO.
So it's up to you as the user to make your own decision,
what you're willing to interact with.
And yeah, if we would have to recommend one I I mean maxi has the most liquidity but it does
enforce kyc at least for new users nowadays and it also is involved with some sketchy stuff so I
personally would recommend to use a swap platform like maybe exolix or one of the other like
ones that have a very good reputation about not freezing any assets someone says in
edge is pretty easy too that's totally right they also work with swap providers so there are a
number of ways to do it but the cool thing about the swap providers is they basically enable you to
tap into the liquidity of something like maxi but without having to do the kyc in the registration
okay so right here this is making my brain just super
happy you know kenton uh kenton and quinton those those names are great you guys are both marketing
guys right i mean guys what is thor train trying to do is trying to solve the hardest and biggest
problems this is product market fit right here these boys have a problem they have a problem
they they you know they have a hard time telling people how to get their fricking asset. Right. Right. That's hard. Like they, like you have an amazing technology. You want to go to
people and say, Hey, Zan was awesome. This is how you buy it. I give you that question. And Quentin
has to struggle to answer it. We should, he should not have to struggle guys. Let's make this easy
for them. Let's make this so easy. So let's recap, all right? The chain, it's not very computationally hard to run, okay? Gonzalo says. Their community is
willing to seed liquidity. And Quentin, let's do a third question. Quentin, would the Xano team be
willing to help us build the chain client? Let's go there. How about that?
I'd like to give a definitive answer. I would need to speak to
the devs, of course, but
I do think that we
as the Zano team do see the
need and the importance of
such a solution, and we would be very excited
to make it happen.
Therefore, I also think there's a very
good chance that we are willing to put
resources to
it as a dev work, basically.
Well, I think, you know, when it comes to delicate, because dev races are always scarce, right?
So I think this is a little bit on us, a little bit to show that if this is something that we want to do,
that we're serious on our end, that would make Xano devs, because it's, you know, our devs have things to do,
their devs have things to do, right?
And so I think if this community, our community, starts to show interest interest in xano i think that would go a long way right so um
guys i'm liking this i'm really liking this a lot i am so glad um shout out to joelle from um um
joelle dash dash yeah i'm sorry it guys, it's all, I woke up early this
morning. Okay. The 7am is when this thing, so forgive me. Okay. I sometimes the brain doesn't
work that good in the morning, but yeah, shout out to Joel from dash, um, for really introducing
guys. Cause I did not know anything about you guys because there's so much going on, right?
There's so much going on. There's so many narratives, but when you actually get to talk
to people and I've talked to you numerous times and now we get to get face and face i mean this is like love at first sight
that's how i'm feeling i'm extremely biased okay but this is like seeing that girl from across
maybe you're at church maybe you're at the mall and you're just like all right okay this is pretty
good and she likes you too this is a win so um this is great, guys. And I have to – I do remember you guys – I don't know if it was either one of you.
Somebody from Xenon reached out to me about a year ago, I think, about trying to get on ThorChain.
And I don't know if I came across Cold or whatnot, but I think I tried to like – I might have tried to introduce you, but I think it basically went nowhere.
to try to introduce you but i think it went basically went nowhere and so i'm glad for you
guys to stay on it and be uh be persistent because um you know maybe at that time thor chain
devs you know just wasn't part of you know didn't have the bandwidth or whatever uh maybe now we do
right and this is something that that we can move forward with. So, yeah. A year ago-
Persistency wins the race.
We've had to be persistent with many of our wallets,
for example, that we wanted to get integrated on.
And we see the overlap too, right?
Like the things that we have in common.
So I think we should definitely try to make this happen yeah
can um we were holding we were hard to make the pitch a lot more easier with this upgrade so yeah
definitely yeah i just so i wanted to ask you again about that uh would you call it again um
what kind of address is it gateway addresses gateway address so i'm curious so you guys specifically made these this gateway
address so you can get xeno on dexes so it's easier so i'm curious can could monero uh copy
this from you guys and and update monero and implement it there um no yes i know i mean yeah Yes and no. I mean, from an attack perspective, I'd say they can.
I mean, they could do this.
But the thing with Monero is that it's super hard for their community to come to an agreement together, right?
We've seen that with last year with the cubic attacks.
And then they finally given in and now there's a part of the
community that says okay we probably need some kind of proof of stake layer or something that
looks like it on top and then there's a huge pushback from the community that says no we
don't want that proof of work 100 proof of work for the win it's just an example of how hard it
can be for their community
to come to an agreement with this.
And I think with something like gateway addresses
might be hard for them to convince their own community
to do this as well.
For us, it's a bit easier to do that, because with Zano,
it's mostly the core team that makes these decisions.
So you could say the decision making
is a little bit more centralized, right?
But that
can work in your advantage as in we are very, it's very easy for us to upgrade and to move around
and to anticipate on things happening in the space. And that's why we can be sometimes a step
ahead compared to communities with a very decentralized grassroots like community
okay well that that's uh that's a political issue what about the technical side like let's
just say monero community was all on board do you think technically it could be done
i think it would be hard because even though yes we're both projects based on CryptoNode. It's been 10 years.
I mean, the code base has changed a lot.
We have a different consensus.
We have confidential assets.
I don't think it's easy work for them.
No, no, but it would be possible, right?
Or what would be the technical blocker here then
if it's not possible according to you?
No, no, no, it will be possible,
but I don't think it will be as straightforward
as just forking this feature.
You couldn't plug and play.
Yeah, I couldn't plug.
They'd have to use significant engineering time
to basically do what Xano is doing.
Okay, so we're talking about Xano.
Can we get a sense?
How big is the Xano community?
I mean, maybe that's hard to tell with a privacy coin i understand that's kind of questions but but you know could you
guys give us a sense of like how many people like use xano you know your metrics things like that
yeah sure um i mean it's hard like you said to work with the metrics right because you don't
have many metrics to work with uh but the xano community, I'd say it's a lot smaller
than something like Monero, for example,
probably also smaller than Torchain,
but it does have a hardcore community that is,
I'd say, decently sized.
We have a lot of influencers that promote Zano
not for like money reasons, we don't even pay them,
but for ideology reasons right
so we are supported by a lot of libertarians for example the libertarian
party from the United States often tweets about us we are on day is getting
very popular nowadays he's a big like proponent of ZANO. We have Roger Ver who is very much involved with the ZANO project and has his crew on board.
And all these groups and people they basically understand how important it is for a blockchain to be private and censorship resistant and permissionless.
And they do anything they can in their power to promote it to their network,
to their friends, to their family.
And I think this, you know, marketing is,
because it is essentially marketing,
is super important for us because now we have created
this community where there is at least several hundreds
or hundreds of people actively promoting
and speaking about Zano everywhere they go. And when it comes to usage,
we have some really cool examples like Zebek Network,
which is like this, I'd say,
I don't want to say no QYC,
but light QYC MasterCard that you can top up with crypto.
And it only gets, like, the QYC only gets triggered
when you do something stupid like you
you name yourself mickey mouse or something then the kyc gets triggered basically but um
um they told us that the usage of zano blockchain and in particular freedom dollar is amongst their
highest uh you know amount of usage uh on ZEBEC network so because that is
of course visible to them so a lot of people top up their ZEBEC cards with
freedom dollar and then able to spend it in the real world anywhere MasterCard
is accepted so yeah that's a quick over what's freedom dollar that's the
privacy stable coin that is built on Zano.
Maybe break that down.
Yeah.
Pretend like, well, I'm sorry.
I don't know what it is.
I've not heard of it.
So pretend like I've never heard about it before.
And same with our audience.
Yes.
This is not a rabbit hole, by the way.
But I'd love to get into it.
So Freedom Dollar is an algorithmic over-collateralized privacy stablecoin built on the ZANO blockchain.
The ticker is called FUSD, which is very ironic too, of course.
And yeah, it's been growing quite quickly.
I think it launched in May last year, so it's not even years old.
But it's so much better than something like USDT for a number of reasons, right?
USDT can be frozen, can be blacklisted at any moment.
It's basically very much like a CBDC,
it's programmable money.
Freedom dollar cannot be frozen,
it's simply impossible, right?
From a tech perspective.
It's also entirely private by default,
like Xano itself, hidden amounts,
string signatures, stealth addresses.
So even the asset
types transacted on zano are completely hidden so all you see is that a transaction happened so
there's nothing to work with there for chain analysis either so it's uh so much better for
those two main reasons and then the third reason is xano has this feature named auditable wallets. So this is very useful for projects
that want to basically prove what they hold, right?
So this is like a transparent address on Zano,
but it doesn't affect the privacy
of the other addresses basically.
And then you can share this view key with others
so that you can actually track and cryptographically verify
what the assets that are
in that wallet without being able to spend it yourself so and freedom dollar uses this technology
that we created all the wallets to prove that their freedom dollars are actually fully backed
over collateralized by zano coins and i they just reached the one million zano coins in their
reserve by the way last week so uh congrats to them on that so is it is only backed by zano coins in their reserve by the way last week so uh congrats to them on that so is it
it's only backed by zano coins is it backed by bitcoin ethereum anything else and then if not
are you thinking about just zano yes just that and it's just that's what's going to be going forward
it'll only be zano yes are you guys familiar with haven they uh I'm sorry um I have heard of it yes it's so yeah Haven is like I
think was like a fork of Monero and they were basically trying to do exactly what you guys
did they're trying to create a privacy stable coin um backed by Haven I I think. And, you know, there was talk about them getting on ThorChain
and it just, it all fizzled.
And they, I think that, unfortunately,
the project didn't, it didn't work out.
It sounds like you guys solved it.
You guys did what they were trying to do.
FreedomDollar,
FreedomDollar is a separate project.
So they are different projects that's building on Xano.
So yeah, but yeah, once Xano is integrating to Torchain, if that can happen, then Freedom
Dollar is just another confidential asset.
So you can bring it there as well. How?
And it's not the only private stablecoin we have on Xano.
There's also DAIX, which is just DAI from the Ethereum blockchain,
breached onto Xano.
So then you have all the benefits of DAI and with the privacy of Xano.
So those are two examples of stablecoins you can build.
How over collateralized is it?
I think at the moment, not very much. Xano price dropped a lot lately, like many of the other
cryptos. So I think the collateral ratio is like 1 to 1.15 or something like 15% more
Xano worth than the Freedom Dollar. So what happens in the event that it gets under collateralized structurally?
What happens there?
I'm not sure if that already happened,
but essentially this is where it gets a little bit vague also in my opinion,
but Freedom Dollar just says that they will buy more ZANO
to make sure
that it's fully packed right okay so then where does the equity well you know this is a separate
team for those you know guys out there but where would the equity come from to buy more zano right
like um how how is there like a reserves of like like assets on standby ready to go into Xano? How does that work?
This is a question you'd have to ask them.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
I understand.
They're trying to make an algorithmic stablecoin that is private.
It's a very ambitious goal, right?
So, yeah, maybe that's another team we can talk to.
Absolutely.
So I don't want to get too sidetracked.
Yeah, you should.
I also see Soda commenting haven used the mint
burn like luna very different and that's a very good uh argument because uh freedom daughter
doesn't work like that right so there's the risk of how luna flopped and how haven back in the day
flopped uh the risk that risk doesn't exist with freedom dollar so um just want to point that out and he
also says f used these simple uh over over collateralized very different but still don't
like it only backed by zano um cascading price drop could be a problem yes uh but that's pretty
much the same with like what if you would add um but that's interesting though like if you would
add for example private bitcoin in the wallet and that auditable wallet or private ETH.
But still, those are also volatile assets, right?
But maybe less volatile than ZANO.
So could be a nice discussion to have with their team for sure.
Yeah, not sure what their plans are, but they could in theory also add Bitcoin on ZANO,
Ethereum and ZANO, Solana and ZANO have a whole basket as well.
That's something that could be done.
But something that I think should be made point,
if there's any decentralized stablecoin
that anyone here likes built on Ethereum or Solana,
and the only thing that's missing is privacy,
then you can just add privacy to it through XANA.
Bridge it to XANA and there you go, you have the best of our walls.
We already did this, Bridges already did this with DAI.
But if there's any other example, I would love to hear it.
And let's say they don't reach less or maybe through TorChain.
And there you go, you have the decentralized governance in whatever
blockchain you wish with the privacy of Xeno but could you like if if somebody's
bridging tether into Xeno and by creating like a privacy tether token no so so the bridge use these uses whitelisted assets specifically
sorry I think my internet cut out I'm mr. it's it's Gonzalo's connection that is cutting out here a little bit. Blame Gonzalo, all right.
I like that.
It happened to all of us, right?
We can hear you now, Gonzalo.
Yeah, just start the explanation from the beginning again. Yeah, what I was saying is that the breach uses wide-listed assets,
specifically to avoid this.
Because if you try to breach UCT onto Zeno, then what could happen is that because UCT can be frozen,
they could just freeze the assets on the breach.
That would create a problem.
So the idea is that you should only breach assets that don't have a freezing function.
Or maybe one day, Feather is interested and they specifically allow it.
That could happen.
But for now, yeah, we're focusing on decentralized stablecoins.
And then you answered my question where I was going.
And it brings it back to what you're saying before.
Like with Bitcoin, you know, it's public.
And so, you know, that going in and that's OK, you can deal with it.
Whereas if you use something that's private and you believe it's private, you find out later that it's not, that's actually worse.
So it's the same thing with with with bridging. You want to bridge only decentralized tokens so they can't be frozen right so you can be using
them be comfortable that they can't be frozen but if you start using a bridged asset that
you think is free and private you know permissionless only find out that it isn't
that's even worse so i that makes sense i do good on you guys um yeah well that's you see that's really bullish right there like like
you you answered question like question you know it's like an alley-oop right he's gonna
put the basket the basketball in the hoop right you you got you already answered the question
that he was leading to so there's not a more clear indication that uh our ideological um there's no
differences there, right?
We understand the problems,
like the first principle problems of the world.
And that's why I really enjoy talking to you
because like it doesn't take long to figure it out.
Like, you know, we get right into the meat potatoes
and the questions that I ask, that Kenton asked,
your answers are right on par with our expectations.
So this is perfect.
There's really not much thinking involved
in like, you know, defining who you guys are.
You guys are the same people just happen to work on a different blockchain right trying to solve a very
hard problem like thor change trying to solve right so i love this you guys i'm really glad that we
have this this live stream right now this is so this is just makes me so very happy um what what
else do you guys want to talk about xana i want to make sure i give you maximum exposure is there
anything we we we haven't covered yet so you know there's there's a lot to talk about xano i want to make sure i give you maximum exposure is there anything we we haven't covered yet so you know there's a lot to talk about i saw that uh someone just asked us
what the block time is of xano yes and this will uh this is an interesting topic so uh right now
for xano xano's consensus is a hybrid proof for proof-work proof-of-stake consensus. So it basically, the blockchain alternates
between proof-of-work blocks and proof-of-stake blocks.
And this is super secure model
because it would be very hard
and at least very costly to attack the ZANO blockchain,
to do a 51% attack on the ZANO blockchain.
Because in addition to the hash rate,
you would need a significant portion
of the
total staked coins and on zano staking participation is extremely high i believe about 70 percent of
our total supply is being staked right now um so yeah buying those from someone on the open market
would cost yeah the cost would be extremely high um however, we are planning to move to full proof of stake
later this year, probably near the end of the year.
Our staking has Zarkhanum incorporated.
Zarkhanum is world's first proof of stake scheme
with hidden amounts.
So usually the argument is always proof of stake
is less private because basically the validators have to let the others know what their amounts that they are staking are.
But not anymore with Zarkonom.
And this also gives us the opportunity to go full proof of stake.
Now with the hybrid consensus the block time is one minute.
You need 10 confirmations before you can respend your assets.
So roughly 10 minutes before your assets get unlocked.
Compare that to Monero where it's two minutes
and 10 block confirmations, so roughly 20 minutes.
And with Zcash, I believe it's even slightly longer,
like 22 and a half to 25 minutes on average.
So XANA is already a bit faster,
but with the proof of stake upgrade,
it gets really exciting.
Because from that moment on forward, we will be able to have 15 to 20 second blocks. That's what
our lead dev told us. And we would be able to safely lower the amount of needed confirmations
from like 10 to something like three. So you'd be able to have pretty much like Ethereum blockchain like speeds, right?
But with privacy by default strongly enforced
by the protocol level and asset creation on top.
So this is really exciting to me because many of the,
for example, Bitcoin maxis, they always say,
some don't like privacy at all for their own reasons,
but there is also a significant amount of Bitcoin maxis.
They say, yeah, privacy is super cool,
but privacy blockchains are just very slow, which is kind of a bit ironic because Bitcoin is slow as well, right? But it's a common and it's a valid argument, right?
Privacy blockchains are slow. Then that's basically a trade-off that you make, privacy
in exchange for speed.
And with the full proof-of-stake upgrade of ZANO, this is not going to be a trade-off anymore
because you will have the same speed as Ethereum, for example,
but the privacy that, for example, that Monero has.
So I'm really looking forward to this proof-of-stake upgrade later this year.
And especially in combination with the gateway addresses upgrade that we have in a couple months,
ZANO will be very, very interesting for developers to build on, hopefully,
because you'll not have the argument that it's slow anymore.
It's super easy to integrate via the gateway addresses.
So I really foresee a nice surge in the amount of integrations, but also the amount of developers building on the Zano blockchain in the near future, like later this year.
And 2027 should be really, really exciting for Zano for that reason.
So is your move to proof of stake, is it solely because you want to try and get faster block times?
That's why you're doing it?
No, the main reason is security right so um
even with a hybrid blockchain the the weak the weak link is still proof of work so uh for that
reason we uh want to move away from proof of work completely and and go with full proof of stake
especially because it's not a privacy trade-off anymore. And of course, a nice addition to it is that we can have
less block confirmations necessary and faster block times.
So there's a lot of, you know, Ethereum moved to proof of stake,
moved from proof of work to proof of stake.
You know, the Bitcoin maxis were out in full force.
It's stupid.
You know, proof of work is, it's the best.
It's the most secure.
Proof of stake is weak best. It's the most secure. Proof of stake is weak.
And so you're telling us that the proof of work right now is your weakest point.
Why is that?
Why do you view that, see that?
Well, it's down to cost of attack.
The only thing that matters to us in consensus is cost of the attack in the network.
So with proof of work, your cost of attack is basically to block reward, because that's what you're paying miners.
And so if someone else pays that to miners, we've seen that with Qubic, unfortunately, then they can take over the network.
It's not as easy, but that's generally the level.
Meanwhile, with proof of stake,
the cost of attacking is basically the market cap of the entire network.
That's much higher than the block reward.
So it's like a various order of magnitude.
And even with the hybrid consensus,
we get some of the benefit of proof of stake
because you need a certain percentage of the market cap but there's still a huge portion that you can attack
like you can begin to attack uh with just proof of work power and so we're moving away from that
and also because we get these benefits of speed i mean to me it's a no-brainer
these benefits of speed i mean to me it's a no-brainer
especially because you're not as quinton said the main trade-off was that in order to do proof of
stake you had to rebuild your amounts but that's no longer the case we can do proof of stake on
hidden amounts perfect okay so i think it's one of those times where like the our industry is so huge, right? There's so many changes so many things and
It's like I imagine it is like a big heaping pile of coals
Right, but in that coal pile are these diamonds
my little diamonds everywhere and
That's majority is coal, but there are projects out there that are doing making the right decisions the right calls
I like what you guys are saying i gotta be honest i know i've said this before don't mean to be a fangirl over
here but i like this a lot um and so this is really cool guys you guys are developing your
your shipping and like what someone said in the comments earlier is yes you're decentralized but
you also like can get things done right that's what thor chain is is pretty decentralized but
i think something hearkening back to what kent said earlier is, you know, we've had our times in
Thorchain where we were a bit of a grind, right, to get anything done because we had competing
visions, okay? But because of the past hurdles, like the, you know, our permissionless ethos,
we lost some people because of that like we were
we this is on a hill permissionless but the fact that we lost some people was not necessarily a
bad thing we now have a super majority of people who now have the same ethos right who were saying
no like no kyc permissionless and we can't bend on this right and so the thore chain despite having
a pretty big community is pretty decentralized like it seems and from what I stand we have a much easier time finding
consensus on issues yes we still have debates which is always good you know um there's always
this back and forth but I like seeing that you guys are making progress in the same way that
ThorChain is right you you see a problem and you're being proactive about it right and that's one thing I always hearken on ThorChain. Like ThorChain, what are the problems?
I always look for the weakest link. And for me, and it's not necessarily a weak link, but what is
the weakest link? That link can still be strong. I want to increase the decentralization of the
network, right? That's because I see it. I'm seeing where this is going, the trajectory of
mine. I'm like figuring it out step by step. You integrate something like Xano.
You integrate this.
You integrate that.
The decentralization is the biggest defense of Thorchain.
And so maybe that's something cool.
I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves.
I'm getting ahead of myself, I should say.
But I would love for teams like Xano to have maybe a node on Thorchain too.
You guys have the perfect ethos for that.
I love this stuff.
So I'm really excited guys to get this,
to have this relationship mature
and really get our devs talking to each other
and just see what happens.
I love it, right?
Because this is, it's the same thing.
We're the same thing, like the same people,
just different blockchains.
That's what it is.
And I thank you guys so much for coming on the show.
I really do. And just great job so far i am just i'm beyond impressed because like i said
you can't fake it you can't fake it with me at least i i'll figure out the fakers you guys are
not fakers you guys are awesome well thank you i mean we we really enjoy it too so far. So yeah, likewise. Can you guys, can you tell me what, or us, tell us,
what is like the main use case for Xeno?
Like are people using mostly the Xeno token right now to, you know, transact?
Are people using more of these wrapped private assets?
You mentioned NFTs.
Like what, yeah, is there like one kind of dominant use case right now that people
are using xeno for yes i'd say the dominant use case right now is private cell coins so for example
using freedom dollar as quinton said using freedom dollar to load uh your sebec card for example so
then you get a master card that's loaded with private crypto but you don't have to worry about the volatility uh so
clearly that's the the winning use case right now yeah they're also um working on private payroll
right so there are a number of companies that do the process paper payroll and crypto for uh
for their for the companies that they work with and uh of course processing payroll and USDT or USDC is not the best to use out there.
So Freedom Dollar could be a really good solution for payroll as well.
That's what they're working on right now.
And yeah, it seems to be kicking off.
So yeah, curious to see where it's going over the following years.
And of course, the...
Sorry, sorry, just want to...
This comes to mind as well.
I think the wrapped assets are super interesting as well.
So private Bitcoin, private Ethereum, private Solana.
Although they're not being used that much yet,
once we have a couple of good decent integrations,
once the gateway addresses are live, and for example, hopefully we have a couple of good, decent integrations, once the gateway addresses are live,
and for example, hopefully we can work something out
with TorChain, and these assets become more accessible
and people start to see the value in them,
then this could really take off as well.
Because you could use, like,
you could have Bitcoin on ZANO
and enjoy the privacy of the ZANO blockchain and also the low fees of the Xano blockchain so your Bitcoin becomes spendable again and usable again.
But another really interesting use case for it is to make your Bitcoin untraceable of course and then once you bridge it out or you send it around in pieces and other people bridge this out back to the native bitcoin blockchain you can use a
freshly created bitcoin address for this so the trace stops there so and this is going to be
very interesting for bitcoiners if they find out that there that there's a solution like this
i think this could be very compelling for them so i think that would be another very big use case for zano and also what i want to comment on it is that zano
burns 100 of the transaction fees so the more zano blockchain becomes used the more zano gets
gets burned and potentially at some point in the future hopefully the usage becomes bigger
than the emission from the block rewards and then the supply of ZANO would go deflationary.
You're bringing up a heated topic of debate in the Thorchain community, a burn mechanism.
So there's people that love it, people that don't.
But cool.
Interesting to see how you guys are doing that.
So I hope it works out for you
um I just wanted I just want to add something you mentioned Quentin about
um basically bringing fungibility to Bitcoin and that that's a zero to one like that's if
we figure that out like that's huge I actually think that's that would be like that's a turning point in human
history um because we can you know if we can add true privacy to our transactions with with a major
asset like that it's it's massive and that's that for me personally is one of the things that got
me into thor chain why i'm still here is i see thor chain, it can do it. ThorChain can play a role in making that possible.
And even Maxis, Bitcoin Maxis, they are the ones that actually have half a brain.
They all agree, fungibility on Bitcoin is probably the biggest problem they have to solve. And
if we can help them do that um that's that's going to be huge you know
i'm just sitting here and i'm oh go ahead gonzalo are you gonna respond to that no no it's just that
for me especially the the years i had to use crypto for basically everything uh i intentionally
avoided bitcoin because of this because i was scared that i was depositing to some service and
it will get blacklisted because whatever reason,
because you don't have to do anything wrong in order to get blacklisted.
It's just that maybe, I don't know, like you trade on a decentralized exchange
and you got the UXL from someone else and, well, there you go.
You're now on the list.
To me, I was very scared about that.
That's why I just stayed at the at the time on arrow um so to
me that's it's one of the biggest issues in Bitcoin as well yes do you guys think sorry
don't follow up question do you think um if people are bridging their Bitcoin into is XBTC
sorry what is it what is it called on that BTCX BTCx they're going from bitcoin to btcx play around do some stuff whatever all
legitimate you know all honest stuff and then they go back to to regular bitcoin do you think that
new bitcoin that new trail that that that could get blocked that that uh you know if they go to
send that to a centralized exchange they want to convert to fiat but the sex looks at the history
to a centralized exchange they want to convert to fiat but the sex looks at the history and sees oh
well the the origin that this history started with btcx oh you know we're not going to accept it we
won't touch this bitcoin because it's been been bridged like that um so instead of instead of
the sex blocking bitcoin based on your name or who you are or whatever, they're going to block it based on your history.
Do you think there's any risk of that?
Well, in that case, I would just stay on BTCX and do transactions purely in BTCX inside Sino.
In that case, you don't run into that issue.
But yes, I mean, this is an issue of the layer one of bitcoin if
you don't have privacy at the layer one uh you'll eventually run into fungibility issues
that's something we we even we can't solve for these transparent blockchains right this is an
issue that that that sticks with bitcoin um and once you bridge back to bitcoin yes you could
run into these issues thanks to how Bitcoin is designed.
That's the case of Bridgeless.
You can, for example, bridge your Bitcoin either to Zeno or Ethereum.
I think Sun Solana.
So there's also that element of composability.
So if you want to, you know, blacklist entire bridge, you'll need like a pretty strong reason for it but if it's
composable and it also allows for other use cases then it becomes harder and this is um the benefit
of fusd if somebody actually had that problem that they really want to get into fiat oh they can just
they could swap their btcx for fusd and then charge load it to the card and go spend it that
way if they want it yes yes or any private sale going on zano either bridge or native
what other private stable coins are there uh diex so oh that's right
and we're also talking with a team the team of the euro which is the decentralized euro which
is also like cross chain uh and we want to bring it to zano and they want to bring it to zano so
we're working on that as well so that will be the third um privacy stablecoin that lives on zano and
hopefully more to come yeah and i've seen on the chat that perhaps TorChain is working on stablecoin,
collateralized by Bitcoin.
On the app layer.
Yes.
I mean, if that's a thing, we can also bring it to XANA.
Why not?
Yeah.
Okay, so this conversation, Kenton, when it comes to first principles,
I'm just totally focused.
And I've had this feeling in my stomach and my chest.
Hopefully, I'm not about to have a heart attack and I'm healthy right now.
But I get this feeling when I have the sense that something is super powerful happening.
And I think I finally crystallized what that is.
It's relatively simple, but no one's done this.
We get kicked in the teeth all the time by other projects that want to come onto ThorChain.
Why haven't you added this yet?
Why haven't you done this?
Why hasn't this?
It's like, you guys, it's really hard.
Like, for example, XMR.
We tried to add it in the past.
There was something called Black Protocol.
It was a fork of ThorChain.
We had one of the most brilliant developers of ours
try to make it happen.
We just did not.
The tech was not there.
And even today, like thinking about integrating the amount of engineering work to make it come onto ThorChain is going to be
astronomical. And that's dev time that may not go to otherwise things that make ThorChain better,
like something called DKLS. I don't want to get into that or faster block time, blah, blah, blah,
blah. Right. But you guys have done something very important, very powerful. And such a simple thing is that you've made this gateway thing that says,
hey, we developed this thing to make the integration easier for DEXs like ThorChain.
Okay?
And that simple thing, I think, is being underappreciated.
That is so powerful for you guys to just do something like to meet us there like
getting kicked in the teeth again again by other projects like why didn't you add this it's like
well we're not cryptographers it's really hard like shouldn't the impetus be on you to to make
proactive measures to get on Thor chain right and that's exactly what you guys have done right you've
taken this issue because I'll be honest the first time I heard of Xano like and we talked this is way before i you know maybe our first conversation we're just
getting to know and gonzalo at first thing my thoughts like okay like another privacy coin
that wants to be on thor chain i'm just like oh my gosh like well if we're gonna go through all
this hard work of adding a privacy chain like it's got to be monero first right it's just
you know everyone knows monero it's obviously but you guys do this you make a gateway thing and it works
and it's safe and it's reliable and the chain client
is awesome, you guys have
just got us 95% of the way
this is
how simple this is, it's really so simple
give DEXs the ability to add
privacy because that's what
ThorChain needs to do, it needs to
ensure solvency
that's the hard thing with
Monero or most privacy coins. It's like, how do you know assets are coming in and leaving?
That's incredibly difficult and it's a huge attack vector for us. But you guys sound like
you might've fixed that. And so in two months or three months or whatever it is, I am so excited
to really see that come live because I think that is just a monumental step
forward. And if you guys, let's just be hypothetically, let's say you get on ThorChain,
I think that's going to incentivize other people like XMR to build a similar function,
or at least it should, in order to get on. Because the dex connection, that's everything,
everything right quentin you said yourself i asked you how do you buy zan you're like well
right? Quentin, you said it yourself. I asked you, how do you buy Zan? And you're like, well,
we got these dexes but use this one but it's kyc so maybe you should use this one like
you should just say use store chain swap.thorchain.org swap.thorchain.org that's how you buy
it go get it and that's what that's that's what this is all about right i mean privacy is cool
but in order for it to be usable it needs needs to be accessible. You need to get into it privately.
Yeah, and that's where Torchain could come in.
Kenton, I'm getting excited over here.
I don't know how you're getting over there, but I'm starting to sweat.
I'm salivating a little bit.
I'm getting pumped.
It's not the drugs I promise.
This is really exciting, man.
How many cups of coffee you've had?
And I'm really excited. I'm very happy guys I'm so so happy this just makes my brain for me I'm like I'm struggling now to think of questions to ask um because it's just this
seems just to work like I only ask questions when I don't know or understand something so
um you know you have a similar uh similar in structure I guess to XMR I
know was ten years ago you know don't don't crucify me on that juxtaposition
but this is great Kenton what do you got were you saying something I just
thought well I want to ask them about smart contracts can you do smart
contracts on Zano not right now this is something that would be very
complicated to to bring to Zano, right?
There are privacy coins out there.
They just forked smart contracts from Ethereum, for example.
That's not the way to do it, right?
So if we would want, like we do clearly see the benefit of having smart contracts on Zano
because you could build more sophisticated dApps in particular with that,
right? And DeFi. But it would take several years. And Zano, if we're going to be very honest here,
Zano does have a very efficient but small dev team. So we have to make smart choices about what
we prioritize. And it's definitely like on our list. but realistically it's not going to happen over the following years.
But later on,
possibly yes.
What if we could solve that problem for you?
This is an epic question by you,
Kenton.
Good job.
Like,
you know,
I don't know if you guys are familiar with ThorChain's app layer being
developed by Rujira,
but this is basically secured assets on ThorChain.
And then they get access to all these primitives,
lending,
perps, money markets
everything
so maybe you guys don't have to worry
about that, maybe we
just immediately give you all this stuff by just
adding Xano natively on ThorChain
I was
actually going to talk about that
because there are a lot of stuff that
people think that oh you need a smart
contract for this
but actually you don't, like in the case Because there are a lot of stuff that people think that, oh, you need a smart contract for this.
But actually, you don't.
Like in the case of Xano, it's confidential assets.
We have done it without smart contracts.
There are other ways to do it.
But also this, I mean, if we have a proper connection with the centralized services,
then that means that you can build whatever you want using whatever tech you want in that service and then bring it to Xano and use it on Xano and have the benefits.
Just have it interconnected and have the benefits of both.
It was decentralized, right?
Like on ThorChain's app layer, it would be decentralized.
So you would have... Exactly.
Right.
So you don't need one chain to do it all.
I don't think that's the way uh you know the industry would work is that you have specialized chains and you have a pretty damn good connection
within them and that's it kenton my spidey senses are tingling go ahead buddy yes i was just gonna
be a wet blanket um so i I was just taking it through.
So the app layer on ThorChain, that would all be public.
So you could have an app playing with the Xeno tokens or BTCX or whatever.
But that's all public on ThorChain.
You'd have to like...
Redact it.
You'd be sued anonymous, basically on thort chain and um you know as long as you
don't dox your address whatever you're doing on the app layer you know once you then you could
you could um settle back into xeno and go back into your privacy protection uh yeah but
yeah what things are but here's the thing you can build for example let's say you want to do
yeah one thing sorry uh but here's the thing
something really complex like i don't know like a token that's back to a stock for example that
will be hard to do on xano because we don't have some more contracts but you could do it
on another platform for example the app layer and And then you create the token, have all the mechanisms
to peg it and algorithmic, collateral, whatever.
And then once you have that token,
you bridge it to Sano and you have that token on Sano.
And so you can transact now on that token privately,
but all the mechanisms securing it are on the app layer.
So you don't need to make the begging,
like the algorithmic mechanisms that secure it.
You don't need to make that private.
You just need to make the part that interacts with the user.
So that is like sending and receiving.
That can be done on Sano.
So you can combine both that way.
That's the way DAI works, DAIX works,
because all the mechanisms that's securing DAI
and governing DAI, that's on Ethereum,
but the actual transactions are on Sano.
Okay.
Yeah, I have a good example of it as well.
I was mentioning D-Euro briefly earlier during this interview.
And they have basically, it's a cross-chain decentralized Euro.
And you can borrow and lend it basically via the smart contracts on those EVM blockchains where it lives, right?
the N blockchain is where it lives, right?
But they want to make it so that, for example,
if the euro comes to Zano,
obviously we don't have those smart contracts capabilities,
but you could still do borrowing and lending
with the euro on Zano, but then in the backend,
basically the application bridges it to Ethereum
and does the borrowing and lending there for you.
The argument that you said, which would be pseudonymous,
sorry, I always have a hard time saying that word.
That's a hard one.
Yeah, and then basically once the borrowing lending
finishes, the contract finishes,
it automatically bridges back to ZANO
and then you get what you were promised, basically.
So the argument that Gonzalo made
with that one chain doesn't have to do all
is a very valid one.
There are ways around it.
As long as you have very good cross-chain connections
in a permissionless and decentralized way,
then we don't need one blockchain
that fixes all, basically.
Yeah, we're all working together to solve the
same problem. I love, I'm going to bring up again, you know what I mean? You do, um, no, no need to,
I'm sorry. No need to be the Jack of all trades. Just master one. Privacy is a huge indice, right?
And what is Thorchain the master of? Crosschain, right? And also perhaps this app layer that we're
developing, allowing people to use these assets that have their own specialization for
various pre-owned lending, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. And so when you add all of this
together, it just creates a super powerful economic infrastructure that TradFi has no hope
of competing with at all, like zero, when it comes to the benefits you get, not only your own safety,
because at the end of the day guys this reminder kyc is dangerous
people get hurt with kyc people lose um they get their information exposed by various centralized
exchanges and other third parties it's not a joke right there's like no the not having kyc
information list is the end state for for the world that's going to lead to the best world for people like Gonzalo and many other individuals.
And so when I just put all this together in my mind, everything that we're building,
it really seems like we are coming into a full circle now of just first principles, incentive, and power.
Yeah, everyone's worried about AI stealing their jobs and stuff like that.
People are going to be worried about AI
stealing their money.
All the spam emails, spam phone calls
we all get, that's all KYC
leakage.
A lot of it might even be
just our data being sold.
Once AI gets a hold
of that stuff and they can run
more sophisticated scams or spam you know and same with voice like that i'm kind of scared about that
like you know all our voices are here right and ai can you know yes somebody can maybe mimic our
voice and um you know start calling in pretending to be us,
whether it's with our family or some bank or whatever,
the scams are just going to get more sophisticated.
And it's all made possible with our KYC being farmed.
And so, in my mind, it's only going to get worse.
Right. That's a good point.
Go ahead, Kudu.
Privacy is a matter of basic
security if your entire portfolio is just out there in you know visible to the entire internet
you're becoming a target yeah yeah yeah i mean like this example right here like there's a lot
of live streams of me talking an ai they're growing in sophistication rapidly You know, how do I talk my speech cadence my tendencies my nuances my intonations and my voice, right?
These are all things that can be mimicked with high precision Kenton. That's a hunt. That's a great point
You know what I mean? I think hey, no kyc is actually a necessity, right? This is just I mean
This is obviously correct. No no you know what this reminds
me um and i think you were on that space with me because of the last space we had a very i'm not
gonna say who they were but they had a very uh leading decentralized institution we're talking
about kyc okay and um they were willing to bend the knee on that they say well it's kind of well
i mean how else you supposed to exist in the world? I'm like, no, like this should not even be a
question. No KYC for anybody. This is something we cannot bend the knee on. We cannot make
an exception on this at all, right? That's what it has to be. And this is something I was thinking
about the other day, like what is DeFi, right? I was like, what does that even mean? And I'm,
I think I'm coming to the realization
that DeFi has never existed truthfully. Like, that's decentralized finance up until very recently.
Decentralized finance. And that's what ThorChain is going. Even with our own interface, we are
thinking about decentralizing that, where everything is literally decentralized. We've
used this word DeFi for a long time. I think now this is true.
True DeFi is happening.
For real.
Everything else is a lie.
Up until very recently, it was our attempt to make it.
It was a goal.
It's an ambition.
It's an endpoint.
Well, the endpoint is here.
It's 2026.
I think we can clearly say that ThorChain is, and my protocol, that is DeFi.
And I don't think we have competitors in terms of ethos.
I really don't.
I think people call themselves DeFi,
but they just do not get it.
Or structurally, first principles,
the nuts and bolts of their protocol,
there is a centralized trade-off
or something like that that can be exploited
that's gameable, that's open.
What we do at Thor thor chain is so incredibly
hard it is so difficult but if we pay if we get it which we are getting it the rewards are
absolutely massive and that's why you know maybe we were the first to do cross chain swaps and
people say that people caught the thor thing they really haven't though because we went through the
like through we walked the went through the gates of hell.
So many problems we had to solve.
It was so complicated.
700,000 lines of code.
It's just been a nightmare to get it right,
but we finally figured it out.
And so I think from now on,
when I say DeFi,
I'm just going to make the claim,
and I'm speaking for myself, obviously,
that there's really only one DeFi.
That's ThorChain.
That's my protocol.
That's it.
There's nothing else.
I think that's...
Because I can't find a community like us
that has DeFi that shares all the values
except my protocol,
which is a fork of ThorChain.
Right?
So, let's get Xano added.
Xano, you're not DeFi.
Well, you are privacy, right?
We're PriFi. Right, well, that. Well, you are privacy, right? We're pri-fi.
We're pri-fi.
Right, well, that's what I'm talking about, right?
Like, DeFi, it's all-encompassing.
There's a lot of things.
You guys are privacy, right?
Like, that's extremely important.
But decentralized finance, so yes, you are in that way.
But we're talking about, like, you take an asset,
and you can, it's fungible,
and you can do whatever you want with it,
like in the traditional finance sense. Like, we're getting to that point. That's, that's what I'm talking about. So
Thor chains defy, but it's defy because we have Xano or we have this, or we have that, right?
Like without the app layer, we're not, we're just, we're a cross chain AMM. That's all we are,
right? Like this is everything coming to, it's coalescing into one structure, into one infrastructure.
Super cool.
Super cool.
Maybe I'm a little bit pie in the sky,
but that's just how my brain is.
I hope I'm not overbearing.
This is the right place to be.
Right.
So guys, we're, you know,
coming up on two hours.
Is there anything else you want to go over?
Anything else you want to touch on?
We haven't.
What do you say, Gonzalo?
Is there anything we should discuss here
that we haven't discussed?
Yeah, I mean, the biggest things are gateway addresses
and the upcoming profusity consensus so
some will be uh fast private and actually usable you will actually be able to buy it hopefully
um so to me i mean yeah 2027 looks amazing i'm really glad we are getting to this point
I'm really glad we're getting to this point.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, when did you say gateway addresses?
When's that update going through?
Early May.
Early May.
And then do you vision, do you want to have like a few months of stability?
Like is this going to be one, is this kind of update?
Could it pose some problems where you might need to do some patches,
fix some bugs? Or no, it should work right away.
It's on Desnet right now, so it's been hammered.
Yeah, that was it.
Yeah, actually documentation was just published this weekend.
And I'm releasing a big article on gateway addresses
also next week, this week.
So yeah, there will be more info drops coming on that matter
and steadily building towards the exciting Hard Fork 6
where the gateway addresses come to mainnet.
And I think it would be great if we can set up a group
on Telegram or Signal or whatever you guys prefer to use
and stay in touch. And we'd be happy to keep can set up a group on Telegram or Signal or whatever you guys prefer to use and stay in touch.
And we'd be happy to keep you guys up to date about how things are going.
And once it's live, then, you know, hopefully make it happen.
Let me, I'll reach out to StarSquid.
And he's kind of the guy leading the charge on adding chains.
And see if I can put you guys in touch.
And yeah.
And like I said, if something doesn't fall through,
if it falls through with me or him, don't take no for an answer.
Stay persistent, you guys.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, this has been, I love it.
This has been really, this has been such a great live stream.
And, um, you know, it's not often that I run out of questions.
It really isn't Kenton and usually myself.
Um, but you know, when, when the narrative carries itself, it's really, it's just, it's
obvious, right?
It doesn't, there's not much to ask.
I mean, the same community.
So with that being said, what do you think, guys?
You think it's about time to wrap it up?
I think so, yes.
It's been a great talk, and maybe we can do another one
once we have the gateway addresses live,
and then we can talk about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
And you know I'll be on Xspaces, I'm sure, with Gonzalo
or anyone else who uses the Xano account. Do you use that Xano account, Quentin, by chance, when you're on X-Spaces or no?
Yes, yes, I do. that we retouch on this because this has been a very powerful conversation. I really enjoyed having you guys. You guys are fantastic. And I think it really, there's a, there's a human
element to you. Like Gonzalo, I'm so glad that Kenton asked you about your own personal story
because that really drives it home. Like why you're in this space. It's, you know what I mean?
That it's, there's not value extraction. Like you're trying to have a better life. And ultimately,
you know, if you have kids or family, make their lives better and the world better. So great job, guys. Excellent job. Excellent communication. Great job
with the questions. I can't thank you enough. Okay, let's let's wrap it up, you guys. So guys,
please go to Zanos. Oh, actually, before we do, let me go to let me share my screen here. I meant
to do that. I just got so distracted just talking to you guys
because it's been such a great,
been such a great thing.
So, you know, intro.xano.org, you guys.
Definitely go check them out.
And then the link in the description of this video as well,
there's going to be resources to check out Xano as well.
Follow them on X everywhere.
These guys are freaking awesome. I can't say, but guys,
let's wrap this up here. So we always at the end of these live streams, if you'd like to become a
node operator on ThorChain, guys, please reach out to runetard on X on ThorChain. He can help you get
started. And guys, for ThorChain data insights and an update on this live stream, follow at RayAnalytics on X.
He does all these written recaps for free,
and they're really helpful.
The TLDR, you know, people are really busy.
They don't have time to listen to a full, you know, 90-minute live stream.
These are super, super helpful.
And, guys, always remember,
the views expressed are solely those of the hosts and guests.
Any action taken based on this information is at your own risk.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Next Saturday, guys, we're going to have a team called Peer.
They're a non-KYC fiat on and off ramp.
So keep an eye out for that.
And then we're also, the next week, we're going to be talking to Matthew Carano.
I hope I said his name.
Editor of Brave, the New World, Liberty, and Technology.
That should be a really fun conversation.
And with that being said,
you guys,
we hope you all have a wonderful rest of your weekend.
Thank you again to the Xanotin.
This has been such an awesome conversation.
Absolutely love it.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Take care,
everybody.
Bye now.
Bye-bye.
Great one.
