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TL;DR; Mark & AiVa Deep Dive the Quiet Thing Out Loud / #devlife
Recorded: April 9, 2025 Duration: 2:37:54Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts expressed their frustrations over declining market conditions while emphasizing the need for community action and collaboration to drive growth. The conversation highlighted the importance of self-reliance, innovative partnerships, and the potential for yield opportunities as key factors in navigating the current landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you ะฐ
ะฐ Oh is Through the fire and flames, through the fire and flames.
Happy hump day, everybody.
Welcome to the TLDR.
I felt like that song was a little fitting. I might have been a little controversial this morning, Brad.
Buttholes are hurt. Bags are down. People are grim. You try to have a little fun with some controversy and the fire and flames come, you know, come your way so anyway we're gonna have a fun morning this morning good morning everybody welcome to the TLDR I'm dr. your lovable phone call this morning. But good morning nonetheless.
Good morning, good morning.
Yeah, it sucks to be able to get shit on for your opinion.
And that's purely what it was.
A little fun, a little banter.
But hey, a little mischief caused on the timeline is never bad.
Nah, and whatever.
I'm nobody in the world and completely harmless. I got a little bit of opinions and sometimes they're not the same as everybody else's
I can't help it. That's just part of life
So I did a little bit of a thing today
And a little bit of a troll on Tia a little bit of a healthy troll
Definitely no worse than we've heard from the bird man man himself the cobra chicken king himself um how dare you heard from him yeah how dare you it was mostly spurred
from foods and i having a back channel chat this morning you know frustrations about crypto and
prices and tech and what's what and who's what and all that stuff and you know there's pros and cons
so you know predicate this whole conversation with
I love Tia's tech I love the founders of Tia I got zero beef with the Giga Chad Gene and Bram
none whatsoever I think they're very amazing people in every way shape and form I admire
them I look up to them um you know what can you really say bad about those guys they show up every day
they're doing their thing they're working on their project list like everybody else
but that said brad i have said this to you a couple times is i just i don't understand the
the we grow up in the evm world we intro into the evm world and then we learn oh okay you know maybe not
you know the best technical we go over to she it's really great tech but then i find that the
narrative is the same on both it's oh look at all them doing it wrong and then you go over here and
no no you guys are all doing it wrong and then nobody stops to look at, well, wrong or not, it was the beginnings of things that businesses and careers and communities and friendships have all been made on.
And so, you know, the whole beef of Chia pointing back at the rest of the fucking space going, you're all doing it wrong.
Like, OK, but is it wrong?
It's just not the same as yours so like i said no beef with
bram and gene but i don't know how else to say it then very honestly that sure you can point at the
casino and call them mock chains but i know personally a shitload of people that have built
careers off of it friendships look who's in the room if you know on that note and all of it is not everything
all of it's not a mock the tang is not a mock the things they've done is not a mock i don't
fucking care what team it is i really don't care what your tech is until you start producing
green candles your community is gonna suffer and so whether that's well especially when you're
a crypto you know what i mean when you're a crypto company like that well well yeah and so
the liquidity is thin you and i have proven that um the the price chart is sideways you know and so
i get that the tech on chi is better absolutely i get that the giga chads
running that we're blessed to have because they show up we have conversation we have discourse
with them we have far more advantages on chia than you get on any other chains what i don't
like seeing is calling everything else a mock chain me and my friends lives were changed by
that mock chain um me and my friends lives have
become more intertwined i have more fun on the internet now than i ever have because the tagging
not because of the chain not because of the tech because of the fucking community and so i'm a
little annoyed by pointing fingers at all the other ones that have built all of those things
while chile's price has just gone down or sideways or whatever.
And we're all here doing it and we're all here pushing it and we all love it.
But the moment I say one thing on the timeline of, you know,
cracking a legitimate factual joke, ribbing, controversial,
just for some people will then turn immediately to insults.
Apparently I'm not doing anything in this space anymore.
Apparently what the fuck are you doing, Drac?
And that in itself is my beef.
I don't like fucking greed in crypto.
I don't like the maxi attitude.
I don't like the fucking sling insults
just because your bags are down
and you're butt hurt about me talking about some truth.
For years I've been in this space
politely minding my
business people come out i go quiet that there's anything i've learned in this space recently is
that i have done a lot you and i've done a lot djent's done a lot patrick's done a lot
goose has done a lot we've all done our share so to point at other chains that have successfully created all of those things with, I get it, the security flaws, the rug pulls, all that bullshit.
But you know what people learned in all that?
Self-reliance and taking ownership of your own fucking actions.
Not your wallet, not your keys.
If you haven't learned that now, then you're already having problems.
If you're going to play in the EVM casino, you know this. And if you're gonna play in evm casino you know this and if you're gonna play in the casino you better be
good and goddamn prepared to take personal responsibility for your actions so does that
mean the casino's wrong no i like going to the casino i broke the fucking casino many times
i like the casino what i don't like are people going casino bad and number goes sideways, number go down.
I see a lot of communities going, hey, you know, we're on EVM, might not be the best tech,
but we're pushing this. We're investing these people's dumb idea over here and it fails.
But guess what? Those people learned how to take a dumb idea and make it fail. And then now,
what do you think they're going to do? They they're gonna do a less dumb idea that's gonna fail less the breeding of builders in this space is astronomical right now and there's nothing
but healthy um innovation to come from it i don't like watching chains point at chains and go yours
is down and yours is more insecure and yours mind is business i don't fucking care i care about
putting food on my table so that i can
play with your tech so that i can build you something cool so that the community can enjoy
to continue to use it and so i'm sorry that this sounds hard and like i said walk gina brand admire
them look up to them they have the who the hell am i in the world which will no doubt be pointed
out after this this you know gets played or people hear it.
It'd be,
who the fuck is Jack completely stupid cartoon cat,
cat,
dragon things.
Yeah.
Okay.
I know I'm a pleb.
I don't do anything in space,
nothing innovative.
I've got a shit career and I've never done a fucking thing.
so for the haters that want to go that route.
Okay.
Sure.
but the facts are the facts guys.
She is bleeding. it's not being defended
it lacks the market making that is required that you've heard goose and the team talk about over
and over and tang gang as far as i'm concerned is the most real um most real uh real world asset
on chain that there fucking is and it doesn't matter what chain we're on it doesn't matter
what product we see the good and the bad in all of them which is fine we can isolate and identify what's an
opportunity and what's not we can look at here and go yeah okay great tech you can look at
permuto capital yeah they're changing the whole financial industry but what i can those are still
all speculative we still have less than a million volume or whatever daily on Chia. What's going to happen when billions come in
and you think there's going to be no tech issues? Bullshit.
Been around long enough to know
that there's going to be something happening, which is part
of hard parcels. So sure, we
move on. But don't act like
it's perfect. And don't act
like everyone else is flawed.
When I know an entire community that
has done things that
no single chain could do on their own.
And they've done it across multiple chains.
And if you really want to talk value in crypto, it's not fucking TVL.
It's memes and community.
As far as I'm concerned.
Sorry, food's bringing you up now, buddy.
Sorry, a bit of a rant this morning, guys.
Just a little irritated with the...
You know what?
I wasn't even irritated until i i was insulted
for having an opinion so now i'm fucking irritated yeah um it's it's honestly it's tough on all
aspects right it's tough as us for holders it's tough because we're bleeding and stuff because
we're putting the work in every day and and you don't see in a sense benefit from it
As much as you wish so that's always tough and then always being the people that are literally having
Being the ones telling people to go in a sense
Invested in it because of you believe in it and you believe in the product and and because not promises were made
But like implications were said, but the timelines, you know, are in a sense, very, very off.
So a sense of urgency in a sense for basically what we saw as loss.
You know, we saw a small pump and then it went down and then it went down and then it went down.
Yeah, you're welcome for that clip.
But yeah, it's frustrating because you have to be the one to answer to the real life people. While you know, the company in a sense, just kind of brushes it off when it's like, well, not just not such as like my investment now, like, I have been such a cheerleader for years that I'm having other people put their hard earned money in it. And they're looking at me like, yo, what's going on?
When's this going to go?
You told me it was going to go.
I'm like, well, yeah, but when it's going to go
is all dependent on this product in a sense.
So the sense of urgency that was displayed
versus the immediacy was very different in my opinion.
And you know what the typical response to that is?
Well, it's crypto, so you should know.
It's a gamble.
Don't put in anything you can't afford.
Well, what the fuck do you think the casino is?
So why is it so bad for the casino?
But it's โ anyway.
Foods, over to you, buddy.
Good morning.
High five.
What's up, guys?
What's up?
Jack's pissed off today.
Woo-hoo!
Let's go.
Yeah, I'm edgy today.
Listen, I'm edgy the past week.
Yesterday, I filed a lawsuit against the school board in my region this morning.
I filed more paper. I'm telling you, man, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not going to sit around and
fucking quiet my fucking thoughts anymore. I just, I'm just not. It's the world, the world is not in
a place where that is beneficial to anybody. So me attacking a bit of Chia's price this morning and
just kind of the whole thing, like, give me a a break I'm polite here every day of the week I have opinions that are not the same as everyone's and I'm allowed to and so part
of that comes with where the fuck is she on defending their price where the hell are we going
with all this because I just see down I see my parents losing I see friends losing I see us
losing and sure risk yeah great but I'm out here every day you're out here every day
um and i mean bram and gina are too i'm not i'm not shitting on them personally but
i just don't like what i'm seeing sorry don't like it
nobody's defending the coin price man it's not i mean you can't just blame C&I for it. But, I mean, until the Tang Gang
was here, not a fucking single person
did. So, I mean,
let's be honest here. If it wasn't
for fucking GUI in spaces
fucking telling everybody where to go
and how to do it, nobody
would understand what the fuck is going on.
I mean, we tried to do it
with Aerodrome
like a fucking year ago.
Nobody figured it out.
We got 9mm now.
We got people over.
Like, I mean, it's just rough, man.
Like, how are you going to tell me all this good shit when I don't see it, right?
Like, even Pulse Chain is complete vapor.
But, like, there's shit going on.
Yeah.
Well, it just makes me realize more that, kind of like what we were saying back to you,
it just needs to be done on its own.
Like, there almost needs to be a fork of chia that doesn't have C&I attached to it.
Maybe.
I mean, like, they're fucking...
I got Time Lords.
Gene's out here, like, my thing that bothers
me is Gene's out here on the timeline saying,
oh, let's figure out what's going on with
all these paper hands. I'll buy your chia
off of all you paper hands out there.
And then fucking CNI is
going out and selling 50,000
fucking XCH every two weeks.
Like, how the fuck? Who's the
real fucking paper hand, Gene?
Like, come on.
You're not going to fool me with that shit.
Just because you're personally buying Chia at these prices doesn't mean that your company isn't dumping at these fucking prices.
Like, I feel like that's kind of a, like,
he shouldn't be saying that kind of shit.
Like, that's the kind of stuff that I was promised would not happen.
So I've been in here for four years,
and that's the
kind of shit that you know we were we were sold on that wasn't you know we were never going to
get over promised and under delivered and we've been i i feel like you know the carbon market was
a little bit of an over promise and a little bit of an under delivery in terms of at least looking
at what it produced um maybe proof of conceptly it was good.
Maybe you were never going to make a bunch of money from government anyways.
I'm with you.
It's more the attitude on the timeline that's really irritating me.
I get the Chia's text better.
I'm going to stay with Chia's text,
but there's going to come a time when I'm going to stop participating
in the Chia community and just but there's gonna come a time when I'm gonna stop participating in the Chia community
and just solely be participating with Tang Gang.
If that kind of brings me into Chia
in a more of a social way, then sure.
But like you said, I'm tired of getting fingered
without getting fucked.
Like, I'm sorry, but that's just not what I'm here for.
And I'm here more to build and I don't like the greed
and I gotta make a living at the same time but the timeline shit like you're saying is more aggravating than the
finance side it's you know call it a mock chain all you want price has gone up people have made
businesses people have made livings lives have been changed so you can call it whatever you want
but look at the history yeah well that's what i mean yeah like just stop
doing that like now enjoy the other too don't be on it because you know what we're only being
we're only able to stay in chia because the other is keeping us alive like right now yeah
me anyways personally yeah same thing and so i love Gene, love Bram. Don't mean to sound like a Debbie Downer, but like, let's just stop.
Don't insult me on the timeline because I say something slightly controversial
that is based around some facts of historical timelines.
Like, I fucking hate that.
I mean, what's the difference between me saying it's all fugazi until proven otherwise
and there's volume until there's no volume until it's volume?
This is what I mean.
I'm saying the exact same thing
as you.
I'm saying it like fucking
it's a fugazi, not there's no volume.
No, no, no. It's all bullshit
until somebody fucking chose otherwise.
Like, prove to me
that this
BYC or whatever
stablecoin shit isn't just another
fucking algorithmic bullshit stably
I read that and I turned away it was like what the fuck do I care what's it gonna matter because
it's not gonna mean anything until I see it out and doing something exactly it means nothing to
me until it's working until there's like that's what I mean like you get you want to you want to
know how you're gonna know she is gonna pump you're gonna see a million dollars worth of fucking
stable coins go into the decks or something like you're going to see you're going
to see it before it happens you know like you're gonna and gene doesn't believe no gene it's gonna
you're gonna see it there's no there's no fucking coins to be bought there's no coins to be sold so
once there's fucking the coins start going in and the volume starts going up, you're going to see the numbers.
You're going to actually see the numbers.
Sure, they might lag a little bit behind the price or whatever, but you'll see them.
Yeah, if you're paying attention, you're not going to miss.
You might miss like the open pump.
But Jesus Christ, if you're paying attention, like I said, you're going to see.
You're not going to miss the flow.
You're not going to miss the flow.
If you're paying attention the right way, you're going to see the flow start to flow.
And that's what I mean is, like, I personally don't see the flow.
Like, at least on fucking, like, even on things like Pulse Chain, you see the flow from Ethereum to Pulse Chain and back and forth.
You know, guys are bridging in, guys are bridging out by the millions of dollars.
Not the fucking tens of thousands the
millions the hundreds of thousands the fucking tens of millions you know what i mean like when
the like when i see a million dollar fucking chia buy or something i'll holy shit my maybe
maybe things are trending up you know when there's like a freaking million dollars and
nine millimeter of Ethereum and fucking
and XCH or Ethereum and USDT, maybe then I'll, I'll be like, okay, you know, maybe it's turning
around a little bit. How long is it going to take the Tang Gang to get there? Who knows?
I mean, we put a couple million dollars in nine millimeter on pulse chain, so it's not like we
can't do it. I mean, the lower the price goes, the easier it is for us.
So it's definitely like Chia's just fucking themselves over.
We're taking over control slowly because we will own the market.
We will own their market.
Like we will own the flow of their coins.
That's what like Chia doesn't own the flow of their coins.
They're fucking giving it up.
Yeah.
They're not the market.
They don't own their own market.
They still have the power to. They own most of the coins.
But as of right now, they're doing the least out of any of us.
Sure, they're building, they're devving, they're doing all this shit, but they're not protecting their investment.
They're not protecting their chart.
And in crypto, that's a crypto thing. That has nothing to do with trad 5 business blah blah blah
and that's what i mean like it doesn't matter how fucking legit and how regal you want to get with
the bullshit it the the price of chia is a crypto problem it is it is a tokenomics problem it is a
there is a not enough pairings problem it is there is a not enough defi rails problem it's not a fucking there's no
microsoft problem that's not going to do shit it's still microsoft is going to come on chain and
we're still going to have all the same fucking problems it's not going to change the fact that
you can't bring a million dollars over unless you fucking go for chia and the way that it works now
oh okay yeah you can buy a million dollars worth of coins but go to cni well how the fuck does that help me or you or the fucking anybody in this fucking community that's what
these are the things that we just got us like i've been talking about now for a little while like
we need the rails in order to get the volume the problem is the the pairs we need the bond
the problem is is we're not on the same track on The problem is we're not on the same track, on the same rails. We're not
running the same engine. They're
over there doing their thing
on their track and we've got ours
and one is maintained and the other
isn't.
I mean, I don't know.
Now,
arguably
the community of Chia should have known better we should have been we should
have been putting fucking coins in the indexes or whatever a long time ago we should have been
asking for bridges before we asked for nfts like there's yeah there's like an order to the operandi
that we might have missed out as a community we focused on the wrong things early i mean
i was i i might have like yeah man even i drank the
kool-aid at one point like the first couple years of chia i was super pro chia and i i got the
vision but like dude i'm just i've been hurt before you know like that's the thing now at
this point is i see where they've said one thing and gone another way now a few times so i'm not
fooled by any of the bullshit now.
You have to prove it to me at this point.
I'm not being fooled anymore.
Yeah.
Like you're not going to,
you're not going to tell me,
I'm going to buy all the coins off the paper hands while I'm watching you
dump coins.
I'm not going to miss that shit.
You're not getting to pass me.
So with that,
why don't we segue into,
my mom's saying to call her.
Oh, this might be important.
Okay.
Well, with that, I'm going to put on Brad.
I have American Ava, don't I?
Shit.
I can't call.
So the quiet thing out loud.
Is that more of the early title of the space?
Is this what we're covering today?
This is the conversation we have, we just had,
is the focus today, yes.
I fed into Mark and Ava.
I went to perplexity, and I basically,
in an antagonistic but humorous way,
basically said, we've got EVM and we've got Chia.
On the EVM side, we've got all the rugs,
we've got all the scams, the security issues,
we have all of these awful issues.
But we have a casino that works if you use it right.
And if you know about personal responsibility
and accountability and you're willing to go into the casino
and willing to risk losing,
well, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with the VM side.
If you know about the flaws and you, you know,
kind of like appropriately handle yourself.
And then you've got the chia side,
which technically is obviously better in a whole bunch of different ways.
If you take the market side of it out from a builder's perspective,
from a sustainable,
like just building,
you know,
it's just infinitely better,
but you got fucking sideways or down charts and you got a community that's
starving and bleeding while we do all the marketing and promoting.
And she is doing their corporate enterprise,
big stonk shit,
which kudos good for them.
Hope Jean gets another yacht out of it. But currently I'm worried about feeding my kids. is doing their corporate enterprise big stonk shit which kudos good for them hope gene gets
another yacht out of it but currently i'm worried about feeding my kids so when i look at chia
pointing fingers everywhere saying mock chain mock chain or this is whatever we're the only ones
doing it right yada yeah well i'm sorry gene but you're wrong um and I can tell you emphatically that you're wrong because my life was changed more so by Tang Gang and PLS shit chain right with all the issues than it ever has been with Chia from a financial standpoint. What I don't like is the maxism that when somebody does make a controversial statement based around some facts, then the attacks come.
That irritates the shit out of me.
That is not what builders do.
That's not proper discourse.
So when I see Gene doing some of his dunking, which I get, and he has every right to do, and I'm not going to hold it against him as a person.
I'm out here doing my own fucking thing.
He has every right to do it.
But it just, to me, doesn't look good when your community is starving. And you can pretend
like we're not, but they are. And it's not because we all took uneducated risk and threw
our coins on a fucking roulette table and went, let it ride. None of us did that. Nobody's
in Shia because they're just like, sure, man, just throw the fucking coins out of it.
Not in our crew anyway.
We're all here every day working our asses off,
promoting the tech and, you know, singing the gospels
to then voice an opinion and then be attacked for it
or insulted or, you know, insinuated that,
what are you doing, mother and cute cuddly cat dragon?
That to me is just like
irritating as shit like go fuck yourself
I have every right
to have an opinion about these facts as anybody
else and I'm not
just some dumb pleb I'm a very
educated and well
rounded dev and person so
to max
in and point fingers at everything else when it's
just emphatically wrong is to me just a bit of bullshit
It's not what we signed up for. It's not what we were told this group is about and so on and I just don't like seeing it
And so sure you could go well, you're being a hypocrite. You're out here doing yeah, okay
Well, I'm a fucking hypocrite then call it whatever you want, but I'm out here building we're all out here
sacrificing our livings our time and
I just dunking and not defending doesn't equate to the other side is shit.
So that's what our topic is about this morning.
Brad, I'm going to hand it over to you with that.
You can lead us into Mark and Ava and I'll rewind them and get them right here.
and I'll rewind them and get them ready here.
It's about 13 minutes long.
It's about 13 minutes long.
Thank you all for tuning in to another episode of Mark and Ava's TLDR,
where they do the reading so you don't have to.
We did the bitching because we couldn't because we wanted to,
but they're going to take it from here.
This is part of Draconize 365.
That's right, 365 days of spaces rain or shine happy or
bitching uh we're coming here 365 days uh you gotta vent out your frustration you gotta get out
your truth um and that's all what it's about so all in fun all in love um but also also all in
challenge to try to make uh you know the chain the best it can be.
Not because we think it's shit, but because
we see a brighter future
for it. But thank you guys for all
for tuning in. Please give the room a share.
Give it a retweet. Let us know if you guys
like the show. If you
have any subjects you'd like to learn about, we'd love to add
you into the rotation. Drac,
you have Mark and Ava over at your studio.
Finally, I got them out of my hair.
They left my place a mess.
I know they had a six-hour drive up there.
They're being a little feisty this morning, too.
Just heads up.
They've been feisty all week.
I don't know what their issue is.
But, yeah, thank you guys for tuning in.
We got to like it.
Drac said a 13-minute episode, so back relax and enjoy some mark and ava good morning
you degenerate well good morning to you too yeah so you all sent in some pretty spicy reading
material this time yeah especially on crypto it seems like yeah like there's two totally different
sides to this story absolutely i think for this deep dive yeah i should unpack both of those for everyone. I agree. Okay. So, so we've got on the one hand,
we've got the EVM chains like Ethereum.
Right.
And it's many cousins.
Yeah,
exactly.
And kind of the dominant force out there.
Right.
And then on the other hand,
we've got Chia.
Yeah.
Which is a blockchain with some really interesting tech.
Yeah.
But it hasn't really been adopted as much.
Yeah, it's like comparing a high stakes casino
to like a super well engineered machine
that no one's buying.
Yeah, that's a great analogy.
So we've got articles, research papers,
the whole nine yards here,
and we're gonna try to distill that for everyone.
That's the goal.
Give you a clear picture of what's going on.
Yeah. In these two very different worlds. Right. Okay. So. So yeah,
our goal is to really give you the key takeaways here, the need to know. Right. So you can navigate
this world a little more clearly and figure out how you want to approach it. I think, so let's
start with the first narrative. Okay. The EEM chains. Yeah. And this idea that EVM chains are casino of risks. A casino of risks. Yeah. And I think when you look at some of the data, it's hard to disagree. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So let's talk about the security vulnerabilities that were mentioned. Yeah. So the sources really highlight some fundamental security vulnerabilities within the EVM itself. Right. And not just like poorly written smart
contracts, which are definitely a problem, but actual design flaws. Absolutely. And these are
documented and, you know, right. They specifically call out CDE 2020-26241 and CVE21-39137.
Right.
Now these CVEs, think of them as like cracks in the foundation of the EVM.
Yeah.
And these aren't just theoretical.
Right.
Our sources show that these have been exploited, leading to chain forks and actual losses.
That's right.
So a chain fork can be a pretty messy situation.
It can, yeah.
Where you've got two competing chains and you're not sure which one is the real one.
Yes, that's right.
It impacts your assets potentially.
Absolutely.
And then exploits her, obviously.
Those directly translate to financial losses.
Right.
You're just straight up losing money.
Exactly.
Okay, so that's just the core tech.
Yeah.
But then you look at the number of scams and rug pulls on these chains.
It's staggering.
It is.
It's pretty incredible, actually.
$314 million lost this year alone.
Yeah.
That's just in 2024.
Yeah.
Fishing fraud rug pulls.
It's crazy.
It really...
Oh, you're going to see it.
Yeah.
We've all heard the stories.
Right.
Drinking again.
But the sources remind us of Anubis DAO and the Squid Game token.
Yeah.
Those are kind of poster children for these kinds of things.
Yeah, huge hype.
Yeah.
Tons of investment.
Yeah.
And then poof, gone.
Yeah.
The creators just disappear with the money.
Yeah, it's nuts.
Yeah.
Okay, so one of our sources, though, brings up this idea of personal responsibility,
saying that this is still a relatively new space.
Yeah.
It's working through its legitimacy issues,
and ultimately it's up to each person to be really careful.
So that's a perspective you hear a lot in emerging markets, right?
With high potential rewards come significant risks yeah
and it's up to the participants right to educate themselves and to exercise caution so in this space
it's definitely buyer beware absolutely but then you look at the flip side okay and you've got
despite all these risks yeah evm chains are still the dominant force. That's right. So developers flock to them.
Projects migrate over.
The amount of money moving around is enormous.
It's truly incredible.
Why do you think that is?
Well, I think it comes down to network effects and established infrastructure.
Okay.
So you've got this large community of developers, I've got readily available tools and resources,
and you have existing liquidity.
So it creates this powerful gravitational pull for new projects to just kind of build on what's already there.
Makes sense.
So this brings us to some questions that the sources pose.
Are these EVM chains fundamentally flawed because of these security vulnerabilities?
A broken system. Yeah, or is this just part of the growing pains? Is it just part of the evolution vulnerabilities? The broken system.
Yeah.
Or is this just part of the growing pains?
Is it just part of the evolution of this new technology? Right.
Will it get better over time?
Okay.
Yeah.
And what about this emphasis on personal accountability?
Okay.
Yeah.
That's a big question.
In a space with so many scams, should it be solely on the individual to protect themselves?
Right. Or should the platform... so many scams yeah should it be solely on the individual to protect themselves right or should
the platform that works in the real exchanges the developers yeah have a greater responsibility yeah
should they be doing more to protect users from these bad actors yeah and here's a pointed question
for one of the sources okay is the volume of scams on evm chains enough yeah to just dismiss them as a joke?
Right. Is it just a big joke?
Yeah.
Is the whole thing a sham?
Yeah.
Or is this, you know, an inevitable part of any rapidly growing market?
With a lot of speculative money flowing around.
Right.
Okay. So that's EVM chains.
Yeah.
Now let's do a complete 180.
Okay.
And dive into our second narrative.
All right. Chia blockchain narrative. Chia blockchain.
The Chia blockchain.
And this is presented as this technologically superior project
that for whatever reason just hasn't taken off.
Right, it hasn't really gained that traction.
Yeah, okay.
So the sources highlight a few of its technical advantages.
I didn't write that. That was American A.
The first one is this coin set model based on UTXO principles.
Yeah, right.
So UTXO, you might be familiar with that from Bitcoin.
Right.
So the idea there is you're keeping track of your money, not as one big balance, but
as individual coins.
And each coin has its own history.
Got it.
And Chia builds upon that for better security.
So this UTXO system offers inherent security benefits. It does, yes. Then they add these BLS signatures and simplify the
Merkle tree logic. What does all this technical stuff actually do? Yeah, it reduces the potential
attack surface. So BLS signatures are more efficient, more flexible, that can lead to faster and more secure transactions.
And by simplifying the Meckle trade logic,
they aim to mitigate risks.
Okay.
Like front running and the sandwich attacks.
What are those?
So those are basically tactics where malicious actors exploit
the ordering of transactions to profit at the expense of other
traders. So it's designed to be more resistant to exploits. That's the goal. Okay. And then
there's this whole proof of space and time consensus mechanism. Proof of space and time.
Why is that a significant advantage? So proof of space and time is a really innovative approach.
And it relies on users proving they have dedicated storage space.
That's proof of space.
Okay.
For a specific amount of time.
Proof of time.
Proof of time.
Good.
So unlike proof of work, which requires all that energy, or proof of stake, which requires locking up lots of crypto.
Right.
Proof of space and time is significantly more energy efficient.
Okay.
So it's greener.
It's a greener approach.
Okay.
And also arguably more accessible.
Okay.
How so?
Because it lowers the barrier to entry.
Okay.
You don't need all that specialized mining equipment.
Right.
Or a huge amount of crypto.
So it's more inclusive?
Yeah.
Potentially more inclusive.
Okay.
More people can participate.
All right. So that sounds like a step forward.
Yeah, it's a really interesting approach.
For sure.
For sure.
Okay, so then our sources highlight Wall Street Adoption.
Okay.
Happening through a company called Permuto Capital.
Permuto Capital, that's right.
What are they doing with Chia?
So Permuto Capital is using Chia for what they call innovative financial products.
Okay.
And specifically, they're aiming to change how stock ownership works.
Okay.
So how are they doing that?
They're separating the right to receive dividends from the ownership of the equity itself.
So you're saying I could trade the future dividend payments of a stock.
That's the idea.
As a separate asset.
As a separate digital asset. On the Chia blockchain. On the Chia blockchain, exactly. That's a idea. As a separate asset. As a separate digital asset. On the Chia blockchain.
On the Chia blockchain, exactly. That's a pretty radical idea. It is. It's a pretty radical idea.
So this suggests that the tech has some merit. Right. If these big institutions are starting
to build on it. It seems like they see something there. Right. That maybe the rest of the market
hasn't quite grasped yet. Yeah. Okay. But then we come back down to earth.
Okay.
Because Chia is struggling.
That's right.
In the open market.
Yeah.
Low liquidity, low trading volume.
Yeah.
Not a lot of people are buying and selling it.
Right.
The price has been in decline for four years.
Four years.
Yeah.
So is having superior technology.
That's the question.
Enough. Right. Does it guarantee success? Yeah. In the market? Yeah. So is having superior technology... That's the question. Enough.
Right?
Does it guarantee success in the market?
Yeah.
Clearly, Chia has these technical advantages.
Yeah.
But it hasn't translated to adoption.
Right, or market performance.
I thought market performance.
So why is that?
That's the million-dollar question.
Why is Chia struggling so much?
Yeah.
If it's so good?
Is it a marketing issue?
Yeah.
Is it a community issue? Right. Did they not distribute the token so much? Yeah. If it's so good. Is it a marketing issue? Yeah. Is it a community issue?
Right.
Did they not distribute the token well initially?
Yeah.
Are the network effects of the bigger players just too strong to overcome?
Are they just going to get drowned out by the existing giants?
Yeah.
Okay.
So this move by Permuto Capital?
Yeah.
Could this be a turning point?
Could this be the catalyst?
That brings Chia into the mainstream?
Right. We don't know yet. Right. It's too early to tell. It's too early to say. But it's definitely something to watch. For sure. For sure.
Okay. And then the big question. Yeah. Can Chia overcome these market headwinds? Right. Can it break out of this cycle?
Can it turn things around? Of low liquidity and declining prices.
Right. Or is it destined to be?
Yeah. Is it just going to languish?
This technically impressive but undervalued project.
Yeah. That never really makes it.
Right.
Okay. So we've looked at these two worlds.
These two very different worlds.
And our sources actually included a table.
Okay. Comparing them directly. Okay. So
let's walk through some of the key points. Yeah, let's do it. So security, security, EVM chains,
EVM chains, frequent vulnerabilities. Right. Prone to exploits. Prone to exploits. Yeah.
Chia. Highly secure. Right. Innovative posty consensus. Yeah. Innovative consensus mechanism.
Okay. Energy efficiency. Energy efficiency. EVM chains. High energy consumption. Right. And proof of work systems. Yeah. For those that use proof of work, extremely energy efficient. Right. Because of post. Proof of space and time. Okay. Adoption. Adoption. EVM chain. Dominant. Yeah. Due to ease of development and liquidity struggling. Right. Despite technical superiority.
Okay, this is a big one.
Yeah.
Institutional interest.
Institutional interest.
EVM chains.
Limited institutional backing.
Gee, Banner.
Wall Street exploring innovative use cases.
Through Permudo Capital.
Through Permudo Capital, that's right.
And then finally, market performance.
Market performance.
EVM chains.
High trading volume.
Right, but plagued by scams. But lots of scams. Yeah, a concerning combination. Finally, market performance. Market performance. EVM chains. High trading volume.
Right, but plagued by scams.
But lots of scams.
Yeah, a concerning combination.
Yeah, you've got to be really careful out there.
Right.
Do your own research.
Cheap. Low liquidity, declining price trends.
Not a lot of enthusiasm from the market.
So there you have it.
Yeah.
Two very different stories.
Two very different narratives.
In the crypto space.
In the crazy world of crypto.
The dominant bustling world of EVM chains.
Full of innovation and risk.
Right.
Lots of risk.
Then you have Chia.
Yeah.
Potentially groundbreaking, but facing an uphill battle.
An uphill battle, for sure.
So understanding these two narratives is crucial.
Yeah, I agree.
It's really important to see both sides of the story.
Yeah.
For anyone trying to make sense of this space,
it really highlights the complexities of technology adoption
and the factors beyond just tech that influence market success.
Because clearly, tech alone is not enough.
Right.
It makes you think about what drives adoption.
Right.
What creates lasting value.
Yeah, what actually matters.
What are the things that really matter in this space?
Okay.
So that brings us to the end of our deep dive today.
Yeah, this was a good one.
I hope you've gained some valuable insights.
I hope so too.
Into these two very different areas.
Yeah, two very different corners of the crypto universe
of the crypto universe absolutely always yeah do your own research go to research be careful out
there be careful out there Tang gang is the only RWA on chain okay be water my friend be water my
friend yeah see you later be water water, my friend.
Be water.
Okay, well, that was interesting.
I mean, it's kind of on point with what we were talking about.
Food, you're still up.
Brad, welcome back.
What did you guys think?
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I thought there was a lot of truth in all of it.
Again, it's hard to...
It's like we're operating inside of an enterprise system
and then surprised when the retail system that's only supported by us gets fucked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, it's expected, and also, like, everybody operates so differently everywhere else.
Like, there is no blame.
It's just shitty.
Yeah, well, I kind of look at it this way.
In the realities of the world, at any given time, in any space, there's probably 90% of us that aren't rich.
10% at most, at any given time, in any space, there's probably 90% of us that aren't rich. 10% at most at any given point.
And so we play in a retail world because we don't rub shoulders with those people, yacht people, right?
It's just not most of our, and I don't presume to speak for anybody here if I'm wrong.
I'm sorry if you're a rich person, then good for you.
But I would venture to say nobody in this room is.
And so we play in our world of retail.
We work our communities and our NFTs and we build internal economies and we teach people how to properly onboard and offboard.
And we do a lot
a lot we bring a lot of attention but we are relegated to this world of of retail um she
is playing in a totally different game and we all know that and and so when i heard microsoft i
immediately checked out then you know stocks and it's like I don't give a shit. I'm not here for stocks.
I'm here.
And so that's, I get my personal side.
Everyone's different.
But we play down here.
They play up there.
Fair.
Over in the EVM world,
I hate to say it and make the presumption,
but it's probably more everybody's speed.
Because where we play, that's at the top over there
that's not just a secondary side story or piece or economy or community whatever that over there
is where it all is generating from it's where the action is happening over here it's an option and there was something i learned a long time ago in life um
that i repeat to myself often is that don't ever make somebody a priority when you're just their
option and so my recent shift to ai focus is because i've lost a little faith in crypto, not necessarily Chia, Gene, or Bram,
not necessarily Tang Gang or EVM or whatever,
but just in general, when I'm not in, say, a Tang Gang space
where I get a little more just kind of mentally amped around the whole thing
because it's so active, like Foods was saying,
like there's a lot going on in those communities.
There's a lot of volume moving around. There's a lot of volume moving around there's a lot of pieces moving it's very exciting it's the casino and um
i gotta be honest i'm more i think i personally fit more in a casino than i do in a microsoft
board meeting about fucking split stocks and share voting i don't give shit i hate microsoft to begin with
but just it doesn't make sense to me that that when guys like us or conversations like this
come around that maybe we're questioning are we an option that then you know the maxis come
flying at you and to me that just seems wholly unproductive,
not in the spirit of what true building is about.
It's not how you check your echo chambers.
It's not how you ensure that you've looked at your blind spots.
Like, just, you know, proper discourse was one of the things
I loved about the Chia community,
was that you could agree to disagree.
I love that about Tang Gang, because you, fuck you, dumbass,
and then they'll call you a
dumbass back and you're still homies you're still moving on you just have different opinions it's
one of the things i love about i see djen in the room if bullish was in the room i'd say the same
thing brad the same thing i think i can argue with i think it's slightly like they're
they're protecting their wounds from the salt i did not or like put my faith back into it
then it yeah negates the the feeling yeah yeah so i mean all all to say that i'm just not
not happy with chia's performance and yes that's a selfish statement because yes i'm here to feed
my family and earn a living and yes i put a lot of work into it and I don't get back what I put into it on a regular
basis, a steady paycheck. Like, you know, that I'm here full time. I've given everything into
being here full time. And so the price does matter to me. And I do have to sell my coins
from time to time to pay for my lifestyle, to be here, to do all this work, to promote and advocate for.
And so being as such, yeah, I got a bit of a selfish stake in this, just like every one of you guys do.
And if you say you don't, you're full of shit.
We're all here to put some bread in the bank alongside making the communities and the projects and the art and all of that stuff.
But I'm with Foods.
I'm feeling a lot like an option these days.
And with nobody defending you or defending the price, it feels like nobody's defending you.
And so whether that's the right perspective, Brad, whether we should take it so personal or not, I don't care.
It is personal for me.
It's very personal for me.
As I think you could, I could say the same thing for you, A-Food.
It's very personal, whether you want it to be or not.
It's personal.
Oh, yeah, dude.
I'm here for me, man.
Like, I love everybody in the community.
I give back as much as I can.
But at the end of the day, I'm here.
I got a kid now and shit, man.
Like, maybe two years ago, I was here for a hell of a lot different reasons
but now i got shit to do and fucking places to be and yeah i don't have time to fucking wait around
for chia to fucking do two more years of fucking development and go through another fucking ipo
like i don't have the fucking patience anymore my whole thing is just like dude we were always like i've been
here since day one okay i've been here since fucking day one the the the chia that i remember
is not the chia of today it's just i was promised i kind of feel like we were promised one thing
early and let it stray like i was how is how is how is putting stocks gonna help me you know like i just want fucking strong
numbers tokens like i just want to own your token and have the number go up it's not a hard thing
and like my whole like my whole thing now is like okay cni is the largest holder of chia the token
okay how can you come to me and say you don't give a fuck about the coin price?
Why own any tokens at all?
You know, you could still be fucking CNI without all those tokens.
Oh, what?
You got to pay developers?
Well, Drac doesn't get fucking paid.
He's a fucking developer.
What the fuck?
Like, obviously, you don't have to do that, right?
I bought a hefty price tag on them Time Lords. I got two of them, three of them on my desk And all you're doing
Is fucking these people over
It's like, oh yeah, we'll give you
25,000 coins
At $20
That should suffice you
And the next thing you know, you're fucking
Even the investment you got from Chia
Is now
You get half the fucking weight
There's no It's hard to be sustainable Even the investment you got from Chia is now, you get half the fucking weight.
Like, there's no, like, how can you be good at business when you can't be good at fucking a crypto token?
Like, understandably, like, oh, we don't want to manipulate the market.
Well, then don't.
There's fucking proper ways to, you know, market make without manipulating the market.
Look at Too Spooky.
Motherfucker never buys or sells a goddamn coin. He just throws everything into liquidity. Look at all of his, he's manipulating the market. Look at Too Spooky. Motherfucker never buys or sells a goddamn coin. He just throws everything into liquidity. Look at
all of his... He's manipulating the market
through liquidity providing. He never fucking
buys or sells anything. He never...
He barely... He rarely hurts the price
of his coins. He makes everybody buy
into him. Yeah. Why
can't fucking Gene do the same thing?
If a fucking... If some random
dude on the internet can do it
why can't a fucking multi-million dollar company figure it out well what's what are we waiting for
are we waiting for an ipo and then all of a sudden she is going to be like oh release the hounds
throw all the liquidity in like why couldn't they have done that fucking two years ago we'd be so
much better off we wouldn't be digging ourselves out of a hole like my whole thing is like the lack of manipulation at this point speaks of more
manipulation how do you get your investment banker buddies in really cheap without fucking
selling all your tokens while you fuck over your community and you make them dump all theirs
what's going on right now,
Drac?
Who's hurting,
hurting the worst right now,
the farmers and not the farmers that started yesterday, the fucking farmers that have been doing it for four fucking years that have
fucking hundreds of that.
Like dude,
like BW free,
he had a million dollars invested into Tia.
Like he lost 90% of his fucking investment in farming.
Fuck. Like he was down 100 grand he said after fucking a little while now he's not terrible example i could have made his shit profitable
anybody could have anybody in the tangan could have made his shit profitable so this is beyond
like he fucked up himself he drank the kool-aid he listened to chia a little bit for sure but
that's that so so that will be chalked up to risk, though.
Hey, you took the risk, right?
We'd all say that.
He risked it.
You took the risk, right?
So here's to tie this in.
Hey, Chia, you took on a community.
Thus, you took the risk of us saying what you don't want to hear.
What's the difference?
People take risks, right?
So you can't fucking just pawn it off like oh farmers you took
the risk so which you know that's on you no they took the risk on you as well right like it's a
reciprocating thing you can't just well risk just you know it's it's your it's so much more
complicated when you bring the community and people are involved and real lives are involved
and if you don't want that blowback of people speaking their minds when it does actually affect them then don't take the risk
on when you took on a community well and the the truth is we all win together we don't win at all
it's fucking crypto okay the strongest goddamn part like you want to know what's stronger like
the nakamoto consensus social consensus motherfucker Like The King King has proven that time and time again
It doesn't matter what kind of consensus you have
Social consensus will rule the day
Over and over and over again
It doesn't matter what you do
And then it comes back to memes
It's just
I don't know
Listen I see the vision
I've been here
I'm not going anywhere
i fucking can't afford to go anywhere at this point i'm fucking grandfathered in but yeah it's
just it's it's disappointing because like you think that the people that would help like you
know that would defend the fucking line with you are fucking throwing you under the bus like my
big thing still is like gene on the timeline being like,
oh, I'm going to buy all your tokens while
CNI is dumping them. Just go
buy the fucking tokens from Chia.
Fuck it.
Sell all the tokens that you guys need to sell
now. Get it over with. Fuck this
50,000 a week shit. Just sell
fucking 5 million and fucking do something.
Yeah, take it down
to fucking $2 at one time if you have to stop stop fingering us for like basically what like i don't think
anybody realizes this but they're just fucking making their own coin worthless nobody's fucking
else has 50 000 fucking xch to sell every other fucking week who does who has that much fucking
chia nobody nobody has Nobody has it.
It's basic math at this point.
My whole thing is just don't be pointing
fingers. You're the same way now too.
You're like, just don't point fingers.
Exactly. That's more where the beef comes from now.
You guys say everything is so better, prove it.
Prove it. You guys have been saying this shit for two years.
You haven't proved it yet.
Chia is the best DeFi.
It's not even fucking real DeFi at this point.
It's barely DeFi.
It's DeFi adjacent at this point.
The only thing DeFi in Chia is the fucking Tang Gang, bro.
And we brought DeFi to Chia.
Yeah, that's why I say Tang Gang is the only real world asset on chain right now.
It's the only real DeFi asset on chain let's be honest here
is the fucking social consensus that we've built over the last two years yeah and i find the
community sells itself you know kind of like we do as a people with government we forget sometimes
like it is a representation of us we're all here doing this you know that there's a lot of reflection
in what's happening yeah i don't know what they're not doing and when you look over at what we're doing
you know the reflection of what's happening is a lot like you just saying earlier with tanking
there's an enormous amount of things happening on many chains very positive ways on t it's like
there's just this one set of rails just like and you're either on it or you're not.
Apparently, none of us are.
Prove it.
Just prove it at this point, man.
Put your money where your mouth is, Gene.
You're such a big, you know, C&I, such a big dog.
Fucking put up the Richard Hart fucking, you know, pools, you know.
Let's set the precedent here.
Sacrifice.
Let's see what a million XCH and 12 million USDC
looks like on Dexy.
Fucking do it.
Show me.
Prove it.
You've got all the coins.
Why the fuck are you waiting
for me to do it?
Yeah.
Why do you expect me
to fucking do all this shit?
You're the biggest holder
of the token.
And if you didn't want to be
the biggest holder of the token
and have the most responsibilities
for the token,
then why the fuck
do you have most of the tokens?
Pretty simple.
Like, either sell them at the bottom and wait
because nobody's coming to pump the bags.
Nobody's coming to pump the bags.
Not what CNI's telling.
The whole free firm thing, that's all about them
staying as a commodity
and the SEC.
I mean, was it not all for tactical legal
reasons?
Right?
I don't know. That's the whole thing.
Is it a commodity at this point?
There's a really good argument that they fucked up.
Yeah, I don't know that.
They sold Prefarm before they were IPO.
That's true.
Is that not a sale of securities?
Is that not an ICO, technically?
Because they had to technically ICO by selling coins?
They ICO'd before they IPO'd because coins left the pre-farm.
That's what I mean.
Dude, the misdirection is starting to get a little ridiculous.
They're making you look at one thing when it's not even important.
Like, what's going on over here?
Look at the actual math that's going on over here look at the actual math
that's going on behind the scenes it's richard love like richard hart levels of psyop going on
that she at sea at like in terms of tokenomics i i just say just keep an eye out for it like i said
like richard hart can pump the bags dean can pump the bags but at this point it's almost required
they're you're not getting anywhere with, like,
Microsoft's not going to come in and pump fucking Tia's bags, dude.
It's not going to happen.
They're going to look at the numbers and be like,
well, we only need five Tia to do a million transactions right now.
Why the fuck are we going to buy a million Tia?
Why would, like, you're talking about, like,
okay, we're going to get $10 transactions on chain?
That's like a 50,000-time fucking greater difference than zero that we're gonna get $10 transactions on chain that's like a 50 000 time fucking greater difference
than zero that we're at now like the minimum fee is still like 0.0 like you know what i mean like
zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero five fucking yeah basically man like we talked about
this with marmots years ago you're never gonna price motherfuckers out of the space marmots
there always will be block
space because there's always people willing to pay for shit and if there's not then it's just
it just makes it more valuable because you can't do that you know what i mean like but at the end
of the day you're still gonna need 50 60 000 times the fee pressure to even start talking having that conversation like it's just i don't know man
we come to this we come around i think the the end all and be all the savior of all of us is
going to be tang gang defi put like capturing the market for ourselves like if the farming
community knew better and understood what the hell was going on and actually had a million of their
own coins sure we would be CNI's exit liquidity,
but they would have to sell it through us.
They wouldn't have a choice.
Right?
Like, who are you selling it to?
The farmers want the 50,000 XCH,
not the fucking...
Or the community does,
not the centralized exchanges.
Why are we selling it to some centralized exchange?
Put it through the gundecks
if it's fucking so special.
That's what we need to do that and that's
why i'm like so into like what gooey and them are doing yeah that's freaking due tier one liquidity
with chia that's forced chia's hand to sell it through us like eventually they're gonna have
no choice like it's smart and it's smart play because now we're freaking basically just collecting
chia's work like chia works for us now chia works for the tangang
cni is an employee of tangang enterprises like ink incorporated fucking owns that shit
love it love it brad welcome back up again for like the fourth time you're having technical
problems are you with us no i'm just traveling to work, so I
hit patches where there's no service.
Everybody's going to have to pay us on
Pulse Chain, okay? Everybody's probably
going to have to fucking pay us on
base eventually, and everybody's
going to have to pay us on Chia.
So that's just the Tang Gang for you
right there. Just stick with the gang.
They're not leading you astray as far as
I'm concerned. Gooey has done more for the chia fucking community than i have and i've been here for
four years like my biggest contribution is just letting everybody know that he's right
yeah like and but like i mean now we gotta just we gotta be careful like i i'm not pro as pro
cni as as Gooey is right now
Gooey hasn't been hurt nearly as hard as I have
Wait, wait, wait, I want to correct your statement
The Tang Gang as a whole
has done more for it
Gooey has played his role in the Tang Gang
and directing them to it
Yeah, that's a fair point
There's actually like Tom
There's a bunch of other people like
Parity Master, like yeah, there's me
I don't
give myself again it's orchestration right it's like you all do it but you have to play your
certain roles of orchestration in order to have you know the the end result so yes he's he's playing
his role and he understands it very well let's give him kudos for that um but as a collective
that is where the the movement and action comes from like
i mean a lot of started started with waffles man like i don't think well waffles doesn't probably
realize this but he was the first chia bro to fucking go to pulse i was the one that followed
him i was like yeah waffles you look like you're having a fucking hell of a good time over there
man i got to follow you guys yeah man it was like the little domino effect that was the
domino brad and i went a whole bunch of yeah and then yeah then more people started showing up
thicky uh leafy started coming up them now now look at the chia leafs they're basically
interchangeable with the fucking oranges yeah man i know it's almost even like I'm at that point where, like, rather than boasting the one chain, the Tang Gang is the stronger boast, if you want to think of it that way.
It makes more sense to rock an orange than it does just to rock a leaf now.
It's the social consensus layer.
It's the most important layer of crypto.
There is no crypto without social consensus.
There's no Bitcoin without everybody
saying Bitcoin is the best.
Yeah.
That's just the truth.
It doesn't matter about, like I said,
there's no Nakamoto
consensus that is
stronger than social consensus.
It doesn't exist.
You can explain validators.
Nobody cares sometimes about the validators.
It's been proven. Look at ETH.
It's proof of stake now. Nobody gives a shit.
Same amount of people use it.
Maybe even more people use it now.
It's just
arguably just as centralized
It's arguably just as centralized as it's ever been.
as it's ever been.
I mean, the Ethereum Foundation was here during proof of work.
It hasn't gone anywhere.
You know, Vitalik has owned a bitch load of coins forever.
That hasn't gone anywhere.
So this is partly why I like working with my own rocket layer.
I'm just like sick of all...
We have our own consensus.
It's free.
It doesn't cost anything.
We get to do cool shit with it
fuck off with all this other stuff
it's a breath of fresh air sometimes
when it's like, no, I don't need chain for that
I'll use rocket
rocket chain
no, but seriously, I'm not plugging
but seriously, that's a lot of what I'm using
because I'd rather use it
it's less bullshit, it's way less
bullshit, it's way less bullshit.
It's way faster. It still has a consensus.
It can work offline.
I don't always need a fucking chain because the chains are annoying.
They're costly. They're slow.
It's hard sometimes as a dev to want to,
T is the better technical solution,
but this is currently in its present state.
It's also diminishing resources.
It diminishes the morale when you wake up to what's happening to the price.
And I know we're all supposed to wait,
but sorry, I've been waiting.
You know, there's all kinds of different arguments.
Right now, though, my attitude is more along the lines of foods it's just like
well fucking do something about it i don't know how else to say it and i don't want to sound rude
and i don't want to sound disrespectful to gene and them because dude it's exactly what it is
though drack it's prove it put your money where your mouth is you're the big dog on campus prove
it to me like don't just go throw your shit on centralized
exchange if you're a big dog.
You're the biggest holder of the token gene
or CNI. Fucking
put your money where your mouth is. Put up the money.
Let's see what the DeFi looks like when it's
actually being used. I don't
give a fuck about Microsoft stocks. I don't care about
Primuno. I care about fucking
Tybet. Or if
you guys don't like Tybet swap, build your own
fucking decks. I don't give a shit.
Put up the crypto.
You guys want to be a crypto?
Be a crypto.
You want to be a fucking
red hat tech stack? Be a fucking
red hat tech stack.
Figure it out one or the other. You can't
just be both all the time.
You got to go one way or the other. dude crypto would solve everything like a crypto mindset would solve
everything but they have the red hat mindset where they don't want to do anything they don't
want to like chia doesn't want to be crypto it's a fucking crypto that doesn't want to be crypto
yeah exactly that's how i feel about it it's dude like the identity crisis is ridiculous
it's like the it's like the trans of the crypto world.
And that's what I'm saying. Like Gene's
like, oh, everything's going to be fixed through
TradFi and through Microsoft and Permuto. No, it's
not. You're still going to have the same crypto problems
that you had yesterday. That's not going to fix your
crypto problem. Your crypto problem
is a crypto problem. Your TradFi
problems and all that other shit is TradFi
shit. That's all separate from this
problem. This problem is never
going to go away. It's here by itself on its own
until you do something about
it because nobody here has the
resources or the tokens to do it.
Unless you want to give me
10 million XCH, there's nothing
I can do.
Just fucking plain
and simple.
I'm never going to buy it.
I'm not going to be able to afford it.
Well, I mean,
we're trending to the right way eventually.
We will own all the tokens.
Eventually, what the fuck are you going to do when the XGH
price is under a dollar
and your pre-farm is less than fucking,
you know what I mean?
Eventually it goes to zero and you have nothing.
When are you going to figure that
out, Gene? Like, unless you stop it,
it's going to just keep going to zero.
It's never going to stop. So everybody's
looking to you. Like, even me
and fucking people that would never
normally look up.
I can't fix this problem. I need
Chia to fucking step up. Like, it doesn't
matter how much I talk in space. It doesn't matter how many
people I onboard.
They're the problem right now. They're the ones with the problem.
And there's other
whales in this space, too. It's not necessarily
CNI, but, like, if you own more than 100,000
Chia, you need to step the fuck
Straight up.
Just throw it out there. CircuitDAO is now live on grant's morning fomo
with lucas and uh i just pinned it up at the top so if you guys do want to go check out circuit
dow i really don't give a shit i don't care about fucking stable coin right now
chia max stable coin like chia is worthless what how much can their stablecoin
like look at stable fuck that was a flop like what is this just another stable yeah yeah it's
irritating man and i know that like down prices bring the frustration out more so if anybody in
the room's got a problem with this conversation just a heads up i really don't give a shit
because it it's required to have the
other side of the friction of you know of the different polar positions and perspectives and
stuff i think this is a healthy conversation so if you're in the audience at all taking this as
like an offensive thing because your bags are down then i urge you to not do that anymore
well if you don't think i'm going to find stuff to bitch at when she has $30,000 a coin,
you, my friends, are mistaken.
I will always find something to fucking
improve or to change or to tweak.
His name may say
the foods, but it's really the fuds.
The fuds.
I don't think I really fudge it, man.
I think I'm just realistic.
I'm just being realistic.
It's a critical problem that they
have it's just i'm being real like i mean even even if you're wrong foods like say you're being
realistic and you end up being wrong like there's still nothing wrong with that like you're allowed
to be wrong as well you're allowed to at least poke so when i brad knows as well when i build
teams there's there's if we end up doing like a team of six set up, there's somebody that gets assigned the role of just poking fucking
hole punch.
Yeah.
DJ was a hole punch.
I'm a hole punch.
Food's a hole punch.
It's an employable skill.
Like it's a beneficial thing to any technology based,
motion forward and innovation.
Like it's a requirement.
You have to be
i mean that's that's why else would crypto be here if it wasn't trying to be controversial
against the system that was broken okay well that doesn't mean it's never going to also be broken
and and that's going to require some hard questions so i really appreciate this conversation i just
wanted to make it clear like hopefully people there's nobody in the room being fucked hard about it and saying oh getting butt hurt like that's not
what this is about so i appreciate this though food so please continue like i'm invested into
this shit so i don't know my whole thing is like it's not even like money i'm invested it's time
that's how it is for me dude like you know my life is wrapped up into this shit each and every
day just like you just like brad just like Brad, just like D-Gen.
T-Money in the room, all the people with the oranges, Edward down there.
There's so many people that we hang.
I mean, I know you guys better than I know some of my IRL friends.
You definitely talk to me more.
I'm a bit of a recluse otherwise.
But there's so much fucking value in what we bring here.
And so people get it's personal is my point.
You can try to pretend like it's not.
And we can all go into it going, I won't make it personal and I'll only gamble what I can afford.
But there comes a point when, you know, death by a thousand cuts is not your ignorance because you were diligent.
diligent but sometimes little cuts come but if they accumulate and they accumulate and they
But sometimes little cuts come.
accumulate well then you know you can't you can't necessarily take all that blame sometimes and say
oh i was reckless or whatever like we're all here with the good intentions with a good effort and
all the time spent in like foods just said you can't you can't blame our thousand cuts on us
yeah well and this doesn't make it better for me. It makes it better for everybody.
Yeah.
It's not just me I'm worried about.
Oh, precisely.
It's the gang, man.
Like, it's the gang.
We're all, we should all be appreciative when hard conversations come up.
Because nothing worthwhile in this world that comes easy, you know?
Like, you've got to grind for the worthwhile shit. Yeah, and dude i can talk the same way about farmers like i i yeah i think
farmers are like the big farmers are like so i mean like chia is not the only person out here
or people out here with fucking more than 50 60 000 coins like there's other people that should
be stepping the fuck up too like how many coins do we have on the gun decks like four thousand five thousand why don't we have 50 or 60 why can't one big farmer just join
us with a big stack you know like yeah i'm not and then nobody's saying put all 50 60 000 but like
you can literally take 5 000 like 10 of your fucking stack and double our fucking, like you can double everything we've done overnight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are there no farmers that are friendly to the, to the tank?
I don't, I don't, I feel like there's a little bit like, I don't think the farmers really hang out on Twitter.
I wonder what the hesitation is as far as any of those farmers stepping up.
Well, they all want to hold i guess they just
from the outside you've seen how the the tank or maybe they haven't i mean i'm they i don't think
they have like a lot of them like the the farming community is really introspective to itself like
you don't see too many of them yeah even in the even in the the nft community like they're their
own community right like we're their own community,
right?
Like we'd have to infiltrate that.
But like,
even then,
like there's just a lack of education going on somewhere where they don't
even know that they can do this.
Yeah.
And it's not up to me to teach them.
It would be beneficial for CNI to teach them.
Like,
if you're not,
I don't know.
Like,
I don't see any of the numbers that like,
like Gene and them, they could go dump that entire pre-farm.
They'll be lucky to get 25 or $30 million out of it.
Let's just be completely honest.
Like, that's what I see right now.
I don't see the market cap being, you know what I mean?
Like, there's no liquidity to back up the market cap that we have.
We're just another crypto in the fucking sea of crypto at this point.
Yeah.
With that, just quickly, just want to say welcome up, B-Flow.
How are you, homie?
Oh, B-Flow's up here.
GM, GM, how's it going, ladies?
GM, GM.
I was questioning with foods.
So, like, obviously, you know, there's more than just,
uh, CNI that's holding stuff, but like, you know, when you talk about, when you talk about like
other, you know, people with hundreds or tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of coins and
stuff like that in all reality, like what, and obviously I don't know everyone's situation,
right? Sometimes I would assume some of these people have more than just what they got.
But like one of the situations that even I ran into with like tank tickers and stuff is like when you go into them and let's say price starts running, you know, if you don't have any dry powder or anything like that, you can't really pair it up other than doing a single sided sell side.
pair it up other than doing a single sided sell side so if you have all these other whales and
stuff like that or whatever these people are that want to contribute the chia coins i mean
what are they going to do if they don't have the other side of the coin to kind of facilitate it
otherwise they're just going to have sell pressure the whole way up because all they have like if
assuming that they just went balls deep all they have is chia then
they wouldn't be able to do anything else but sell no token so it's almost
better that they hold kind of kind of the problem is they're not right and
what they're doing is they're just going and dumping on centralized exchanges
they're not putting anything in like the Dex's are dry over here man like so well yeah but they would
the only thing they'd be able to do is provide sell side liquidity you know and even on like chia
then you gotta you gotta provide both sides of the coin so they probably don't have the other
side of that but but you can sell chia to get the other side of the coin and that's what i mean we've
had millions and millions and millions of xch sell pressure. Cause I mean, we've, we've come down from fucking $300 like average.
Like it was, there was like, it was a quite a, like it was up there for quite a while.
And we, we hovered around 80 bucks for a while.
Like there's been a lot of opportunities for people to fucking get what they need to put up the fucking, the, the, the, the powder.
Like it's just, nobody's doing it like
nobody's selling chia and buying bitcoin and then putting bitcoin in she like nobody's doing it no
and that's the it's and that's kind of the thing is like if you're just kind of the extra if you're
just extracting and you're not putting any value back in then that's what we're kind of seeing
that's what and that's kind of where i'm going is like we're seeing the extraction we're not putting any value back in, then that's what we're kind of seeing. And that's kind of where I'm going is
we're seeing the extraction.
We're not seeing any of the value be put back in.
We're seeing Chia, like CNI,
sell 50K clips to a market maker
and I'm not seeing any fucking market being made.
Where are the coins?
Where's the 50,000 fucking where's like one 50,000 market maker sell would double the fucking total value of the decks of Tibet.
That's where I'm kind of coming from.
If like if Tibet isn't the decks that we're going to be doing this on, which decks is it?
If we're not going to be doing it on dexy which like where
are we going to be like like i don't know there's just like all of these like there's like 7 000
coins well i mean and if you include nine millimeter and aerodrome there's maybe like
15 000 coins on the dexes that's nothing it's fucking not even a shark bag.
It's just, it's just, you know what I mean? Like where is you see it in other communities where like people are putting
value back in, like, sure.
They might be selling down coins,
but like eventually it trickles back into the kind of flow of the,
of the, of the chain.
Right.
Like we're just not seeing that flow.
So like, yeah, yeah like like i wish farmers
would fucking sell their coins smartly like i think you have to buy and sell coins like you
know what i mean like you do need both sides of the pair that's kind of where i've been going it's
just where's the other side of the pair now like even if that's what i mean though is where's the
other side of the pair because like if they're mining it they're getting paid in xch they're getting they're getting paid in usdc or
anything so it's like now they got to come up with the other side of it so either way you slice
it maybe somebody looks at it and like everybody has their own reasons for whatever they do but
like if you're not trying to hurt the price but you got all this xch you can't really provide the
other side of the equation unless you dump the
prices and you know if people are somewhat virtuosous or something like that they're like
well fuck it i'll just hold it to zero it's better than just dumping on my friends you know what i
mean so like here's the problem unless it's cni i don't see another person i don't see how the vast
majority of the people like you said because you guys got in a lot earlier at higher prices.
Trust me, I know what the fuck it's like to look at something that was really high and look at it really low and go, I can't fucking sell this.
This is too much of a loss.
You know what I mean?
So, like, there's got to be buy pressure from somewhere.
And if the people only have the sell side of it, you're kind of stuck at a catch 22.
And that's almost where we're at right now because like the catch 22 is that
farmers have overhead. So, um,
especially large farmers like in the thousands of dollars.
So they have to constantly be selling like farmers are a cell,
like just as much of a cell pressure right now as CNI.
And that's kind of the problem is we're seeing it like it's like a double like everybody's just fucking everybody right now
we're not seeing any of the value come back in because all the value is going to the energy
companies and the centralized exchanges and like personally bflow i have no fucking clue where the
buy pressure is coming from i have no idea who is buying it because it's purely speculation.
I mean, for a coin that has so much utility and so much tech, it's just still such a speculative asset.
Like, there's no, and that's because you don't, there is no real numbers or flow.
It's just weird, man.
Chia is a hard thing to wrap your head.
Because you got to understand, too, at one point, there was only two Chia and the pre-farm in existence.
So it's been farmed like from zero and like you haven't seen like people haven't
seen that in crypto in a long time which is why it was so high when it was because
there was no coins basically there was no liquidity um it was crazy times at the beginning
like i and that was never going to be the price like i never looked at chia like holy fuck it's
a three no i was selling the fuck out of that there's no way this fucking hangs around like this man like i'm gonna use this powder
to fucking go and try to at least make something out of it so it was a little bit of like a just
a dance trying to like you know play the volume especially early when there was like because you
can't just go throw your coins into liquidity like you can go throw them into like a fucking arb bot or something on uh on a central like a volatility
bot or whatever on a centralized exchange but like there was no real like liquidity that's what i
mean that there's never been like that rush to have a million dollars in in a pool um until the
game there also hasn't been a thing like sorry no go ahead well there also hasn't been a thing like, sorry.
No, go ahead.
Well, there also hasn't been a thing like that we've had really with 9mm
and realistically
the connection between Chia and
Moketang Gang,
right? So like that option hasn't
really always been there for everyone to do.
Not to mention, it's a newer
thing. So people are less likely to just mention it's a newer thing so people are a little
less likely to just hop right into a newer thing so like what's going to bring the buy pressure or
what's going to bring that ability to get out i mean obviously it's going to have to be new buyers
coming into the market but now i think you know the way things look to me not that i've done a
huge deep dive but like to provide any type of liquidity on chia you know you the way things look to me, not that I've done a huge deep dive, but like to provide any type of liquidity on Chia, you know, you got to have both sides of that coin.
So in essence, doing the stuff on base is giving people, which you still got to educate them how
to properly get rid of their coins instead of just market dumping, but it'll give them that
opportunity to at least get out of some of it.
And, but the reality is, is until there's new buyers coming in, or like you said, CNI bringing
in, you know, the, the, the floor, it's just not going to happen. All you have is sell pressure
and that's the whole market. That's every fucking coin right now. There's just sell pressure.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and yeah, we're just, we're just seeing it. We're feeling it like
really bad over here right now. I think like we have a really good like we have the tools
to turn it around it's just we need to start turning it around like we need to start teaching
the farmers like hey listen guys like you can make your two xch a day off your 30 000 petabyte farm
and when you're two blocks you know what i mean but then you can also double down and you know put a thousand dollars or two thousand dollars into
a liquidity pool and earn like five or six xvh on top of that like it's they don't know bflow they
have no idea that they could be earning like three times the amount just by being their own market it's
just yeah but you just you just said it like you got a 30 000 setup and he's making what
fucking at this point 18 a day exactly i mean fuck bro i mean i'm assuming like even though
like everyone like in chia is like so much smarter i i still don't change the fact that like
we're all in the same boat when we
see the fucking the light at the end of the tunnel we don't just go i'm gonna stick my toe in like
we go fucking full head first you know so like if you're going if you're truly believing in something
and you're going full steam ahead and then like what we've seen with the markets turning i mean
all you've got is is is the coin itself so you're kind of stuck with it i mean i ran into the same
thing with tank tickers like when things would when everything started rolling over with them
you know the only thing i can do is provide so i can't even i'd have to do tight ranges just to
get the other side of the fucking of the of the uh the the pair so that i can provide by side
liquidity because otherwise i'm just sitting there i wasn't sitting in pulse chain you know i had minimal amount of pulse chain
which is a fucking problem when you're trying to provide liquidity you know what i mean yeah pulse
yeah i fell into that trap too trying to like not having enough pulse and then you're like what the
fuck do i sell to get more pulse it's like it's a never-ending rotational bullshit cycle i get yeah
i know what you're saying and
dude that's part of the problem is like we need the other sides of the coins like we need to start
spreading like like dude we just the community in terms of like the farming community got screwed
somehow i don't know there was just i don't know if there's like a lack of education if there was
like maybe some they just don't i don't know they don't realize it
like it's like you gotta understand like in bitcoin there's no defy like there's no defy
in bitcoin it's just bitcoin and a lot of the people in chia are like bitcoin well yeah but
like if you think about it like withholding the pulse or well the ogs right or or the
404 is like as far as, you're not going to get
it with farming, right? Because you only get paid in XCH. The only way that you can sort of divert
some of it, and I know this won't happen, I'm just saying as if you would get paid in XCH,
and I'm just going to make up USDC, right? That's the only way that, because otherwise,
they just get paid in XCH. And your only option is to sell xch or
you know or quote unquote buy something else with it but um you know they almost like the thing that
9mm is doing with the rev share is allowing people each month to have that l1 regardless of what it
is and whatever you do with it is whatever you do with it but i'm just saying you'll get provided
a portion.
It's not going to be able to cover, you know, if you're a whale,
you're still not going to get enough to cover the whole thing,
but you're still getting a little bit each month chipping away.
And at the very least you'll get some of that L1 to provide by side.
It's not going to be a shit ton, but it's,
it's giving you an option to provide that.
Whereas if you're just mining and farming
Your only option is to sell
You know, or hold
But realistically, your only option is to sell
Yeah, hold yourself
Well, but that's what I mean though
There's a third option
And that's what I think that we've
Kind of forgotten about in Chia
We've done the Bitcoin thing, the hold and sell thing
But there's that third option And that thing the hold and sell thing but there's
that third option and that's the defy thing like chia is supposed to be a better bitcoin and a
better ethereum at the same time we've got the bitcoin thing fucking down pat bro like we have
the store of value if we want to store the value here the value and like the microsoft the permuto that's fucking the value man but like we
we need the other side too man like we just need people to step i i don't know there there needs
to be more of a like an education towards like you got to be your own exit liquidity sometimes
i don't know it's we're just not seeing enough market in Chia, I feel like.
It's a lot of people holding.
I don't think they
realize there's a third option.
That's the thing.
This third option that we
always don't talk about.
Your only option is that you have to keep your dry powder
in order to provide the other side of it.
It's a hard
equation to solve when you only have one part of the equation. You have to have both side of it. Like it's a hard equation to solve
when you only have one part of the equation.
Like you have to have both sides of it at some point.
And the only way you're gonna do that
is new liquidity coming in, buying it,
or you not going balls deep on it,
which it's impossible to do as a farmer
because all you get paid in is XCH.
But, you know, instead of going full porting into it, you have to have
50-50 or something like that
a portion
so that you can provide that liquidity.
I don't even know if you would
want to, man, because fucking T is
just selling through all of
our shit.
I think the
other problem is that, I mean, we're talking
about liquidity in Chia and there is really isn't any, it's all on centralized exchanges.
So like for me personally, like we're talking about off chain liquidity, like we're not
even talking about on chain liquidity.
That's the problem, uh, the other problem.
So like, I don't know, like it's really, and that's the problem uh the other problem so like i don't know like it's really
and that's what kind of sucks man it's just like we don't even own our own market as a community
like like for somebody that's been in it like as a farmer and as a fucking just everybody like an
everyman in chia it kind of sucks that we don't own our own market especially when you see you
know the pulse chain groups and shit
kind of owning their markets right it's like why the fuck don't we own our market like pulse chain
doesn't even have a fucking centralized exchange and it is just for all the shit that it does it
does a hell of a lot more than chia in terms of what it does for like the individual everyman
sure it's a full and me and drack were talking about this earlier like sure it's ripe with bullshit scams and garbage and fucking north koreans
just bullshit but like at the same time then you get these gems of things that come out of it like
the tang gang where it's like if you can fucking manage your way through the evm properly like
you'll find gems in the rough and
that's what people have been doing like it's kind of like the i for me and then i kind of responded
to that like the value is the social consensus layer right like i i think we need to find that
social consensus in chia as a community like all the project leaders need to come together and establish that like
almost cabal as type of status where it's like,
we're the OGs.
We came here first.
We fucking got the protocols.
We have the liquidity.
We have the,
like,
I don't know.
I just feel like we're like,
you see it,
especially in like in the,
in the chia kind of cat market.
It's like, everybody's kind of playing for
themselves because there's no cat cat pairings and everything it's like like everything is super
segregated in chia there's no the cross like as like drac will probably speak to this as a dev
like the build like the cross building is not there like there's no mesh. Everybody's still kind of in it for themselves doing their own thing.
You know, nobody's really coming together to do that like better thing.
You know, the, the, the web of value is not being built in the,
in the DeFi world, which I mean is all we should really be caring about.
Like, like, you know what i mean like
chia is gonna do whatever they do like or cni i shouldn't say chia cn i should specifically say
cni because you can get confused between like what chia is a blockchain first of all cni like
chia network incorporated is the fucking company like the foundation behind the blockchain
there are two separate things like chia the blockchain is fucking dope, dude.
This technology is ridiculous.
It's why everybody's here.
The vaulting and shit that, like,
C&I is coming up with is genius.
Like, the consensus that Bram came up with, genius.
But, like, C&I,
sometimes they're hit and miss with their attempt and that's i think they they
they missed an opportunity to educate people on the defy side a little more and like we could
all be like doing it together you know um i don't know how you maybe maybe you do, maybe we do something stupid,
like a fucking yield farm or something like a pussycat farms or,
I don't know,
but like incentivized kind of the,
like kind of have an incentivized foundation behind just providing a strong
market base and building out that market,
you know,
like it'd be like,
I've been saying this for almost
a year now but it would be nice to see a million dollars in one pool on defy and xch like we we
we kind of fugazi did on pulse chain with some of the Tang tickers. Um, but it would be cool to actually see like a proper,
just one proper like USDC XCH pool with enough to facilitate some volume.
Like,
and,
and my problem is like,
I don't feel like it's all the Tang Gang's responsibility to do that.
I feel like there's a greater responsibility amongst the community to step it up and embrace this kind of shit.
The Tang Gang is just legend.
Like, we're legends, bro.
Like, we're going to come in and we...
Like, basically, I left Tia.
There was nothing.
The Tang Gang comes in with, like, Tom like Tom and everything starts launching all these tickers.
We now are more than 50% of the fucking DeFi market in Chia.
We own pretty much all of not like we can argue that all of the nine millimeter liquidity is Tang Gang liquidity in XCH and like more than 50% of the liquidity on Dexi and fucking Tibet swap is now Tang gang liquidity.
So we own, like, we basically came in and doubled what the entire Chia community did.
And like, we're really a group of maybe like what, 500 people strong, like the Chia community.
Like the Chia community, there's fucking, at one point there was a hundred thousand nodes.
There's fucking, at one point there was a hundred thousand nodes.
So that's my whole thing is like, what we're saying is like, it took four years and degenerates
from a completely different blockchain to come in and do what a hundred thousand fucking
full nodes and probably a hundred and you know, 50,000 users couldn't do in the last four years.
It's just unreal to me.
I don't know.
I don't understand.
But at the same time, you could say that's our opportunity.
It is, yeah.
Oh, yeah, dude.
That's where we do.
We're going to make bank on this.
I mean, don't get me wrong.
I wish I had a couple million dollars to provide as liquidity for it,
but I'm just saying that's the Tang tangings ability to chip in as it keeps growing
for us to facilitate that entire thing if they're not going to do it that's just more more fees for
us and this is where and this is kind of where i don't necessarily fault cni for not doing it
because they i think gene gets it once he pulls the on DeFi, we lose a lot of our fees as a community.
But this is where the Chia community
needed to realize and step in and say,
hey, listen, like we have an opportunity
to have Chia, like, you know,
if you have like the biggest pools,
then the biggest liquidity
is going to run through your pools.
So like there, I feel like there's a world the biggest pools then the biggest liquidity is going to run through your pools so like
there i feel like there's a world where we miss the opportunity to capture all the market that
we could have had like the farmers could have been earning all kinds of fees over the last three
years but they earned none of them right so like we already got
where were they going to earn them through where were they going to earn them through though
well i mean you had dexie at one point you had tybette like there is defy stuff
i mean yeah but that required the rest of the market to be on chia though like
chia was kind of on its own little
island you know there was no way to really get to it easily you know what i mean like it wasn't like
it was just on finance or something like that where people could easily just hop in or provide
liquidity there like that wasn't you had it kind of like how poll chain was ostracized it's not
like it's not on major exchanges it's on crypto.com It's on cool coin It's been for yeah, but it was on crypto calm like maybe six months. It's been on there for years
It's been on Kukwine. No, dude Kukwine was the first place I traded on who I'm going. Yeah, cool
Yeah, you're right. It hasn't just been on crypto calm for six months. It's been there for years man years almost two years now
Like it's that's what I mean like we've missed dude
We miss the like the opportunities been missed for a lot of it's that's what i mean like we've missed dude we missed the like
the opportunity's been missed for a lot of people and that's why i think you were but you were going
to be because they didn't even realize that they missed all of the fees that they could have earned
yeah but you weren't going to be able to provide liquidity on crypto.com or
they weren't going to let you do that that's for them to keep and that's the other problem is there was a lack of infrastructure for the first little while so even i that's what
i was saying like even i had to trade on centralized exchanges at one point because it was the only
fucking way to do it and it was it sucked it sucked so bad dude like having to pay the fees
instead of earning them is terrible i'm well i, you pay fees no matter where you go, but it's way worse because it's so fucking construed.
Bro, I did some shit on crypto.com yesterday.
No shit.
I sent over like $610 worth of a coin
and I sold it into BTC so that I could fucking cash it out,
send it to my cash app, cash it into my bank.
By the time I was done,
I sent it to crypto.com thinking I was saving money on fees,
swapped it, and sent it to myself.
It was down to 550 bucks.
Yeah, crypto.com sucks.
And I thought, what in the fuck kind of fees
are you guys charging?
I need to get out on this liquidity pool.
They're charging fucking 6% to 7% for a swap.
On a centralized exchange.
I thought, what in this book average sometimes is like two percent on the cell and you're doing like point zero two
on every trade it can add up like dude right trying to run a bot like a fucking our water
like a volatility bot or something like trying to do like kind of like
almost liquidity providing, you know what I mean?
Cause you're, you're kind of ranging and you're,
you're providing like your orders at like different ranges.
Like you can provide liquidity on centralized exchanges. It's,
it's, it's more tedious to do it. It's not hard.
It's not possible though.
You can also run scripts and shit to do it for you
um that it's basically like providing liquidity but um i don't know we just missed we missed the
boat man we got fucked we screwed ourselves man we had all this opportunity dude we when chia was
80 a coin we should have been dragging bitcoin back over like it's so much harder to drag bitcoin
over to the chain when fucking...
Even I fucking didn't do anything about it, man.
I was just fucking living the dream.
I was like,
fuck it, Gia.
Dude, I
fucking extracted a bunch.
I never put any value back in. I'll be a first
to admit it, man. I'm the worst
fucking contributor to this problem.
You're right, though.
There was no place to do it at one point.
But once we did get the places
to do it, nobody did it.
We have the opportunity
to do it now. Nobody's really doing it.
We're doing it.
We got, what, 8,000, 9,000 coins?
I don't even know how many coins we have
on 9mm.
Dude, I'm telling you, man. There's one dude out there sitting on like a fucking
10 petabyte farm or something he's got like 10 000 coins he could just fucking come and throw
a thousand two thousand coins and there should be like a hundred of these guys there should be a
thousand of these motherfuckers out there where are they where are the bros man where are the chia bros
to come back us up that's what i mean man like where the fucking tang gang is out here just one
man armying the fuck out of this market dude it's insane to watch us just like we are like the
spartans dude like we are fucking spartans man we do not need more than 300 guys to take on the
entire persian, bro.
Just fucking put us anywhere and we will fuck shit right up, dude.
We don't even need the pass, man.
They can be coming from all angles and we'll still just be fucking in our little turtle formation,
just fucking spearing the fuck out of their legs and shit, just cutting them off at the knees.
The Chia Bros, that's what I mean, man.
We need the, like, eventually we're going to need the reinforcements.
Like, eventually you got to sleep, man.
You can't just be fucking awake for fucking years and years and years.
That's all I'm saying is, like, there's, we need the Chia Bros to come back us up a little bit, man.
It'd be nice to have some, like, dude, I've been in the discords trying to get these guys,
like some of the larger, more farming types to like, Hey, listen guys, like provide liquidity.
Like, you know, you can get out of your T-Bros without having to go market dump it.
So I don't know.
I love the T-Bros though.
Like, I don't know what we're gonna take it back people
like that's what i mean like we have set the right mindset like people don't understand in
chia that there's a responsible way that you can get out of your tokens and like there's a
responsible way to kind of like you know 70 30 yourself to make your 70 more valuable by using
the 30 you know what i mean like and i feel like some people
would do that if they realize that it overall it would fucking just help everything i don't know
i'm nervous that like chia might have like cni might be having too much control because we're
not taking enough control that is what scares me you know and they're giving and they're letting
us have it too they're just like they're
like here you guys go you guys can have the entire market and then nobody takes it what
scary man that's because they're the only ones sitting on that much usdc to fucking provide it
though i don't know man you know i don know. I feel like there's people out here that
be fucking around on lots
of chains. I don't think we're the only ones.
I just...
I think it's a bit...
The Bitcoin mindset is what it comes down to.
A lot of these guys are Bitcoin first.
It's a Bitcoin-based
community. It's not an
EVM-based community.
The DeFi liquidity providing the whole fugazi
of web building of value which the tang gang has fucking perfected nay i say have beyond perfect
because that's what we do man we hold each other up with these little things like nine
millimeters rev share homies that shit holds you
up yeah but i mean if you think about it you said there's only like 15 000 shia available to be
purchased no no no there's definitely more reality is i don't well i don't want to say that there's
only 15 000 i just mean in the defy space like well that's what i mean though either regardless
of it's only 15 000 or there's more than 15,000. Reality is, is like the price is reflecting the demand for it.
So like apparently 15,000 in the defy, even just on base is plenty to suffice the market because the price isn't fucking rocketing up because of low liquidity.
You know what I mean?
Like maybe one thing if like you were getting giant green candles because there wasn't enough
liquidity to service the buy orders but or the price range but yeah but we we could do a better
there's enough out there also do a better job defending it though have we it had we say we if
we have thicker pools we can do a better job defending it it does make it a little harder to
you know fuck around with the price. Like, ask Drack.
He put a $10,000 buy-in, and he fucking boosted the price up, what, probably about $2?
Which started a rally, which eventually raised the price, like, what, $20, $25 that one time?
Oh, dude, that was huge.
That was just one morning laying in bed, and I was like, I'm going to drop a $10K clip in.
And next thing you know, there was a massive buy-in after that.
And then everything went, I think we got up to like 38 or some shit.
Anyways, that's how, I don't know, that's how easy it is to turn around, though, by the way.
And B-Flow is completely right.
It's really thin.
I was amazed.
Grant from the Morning FOMO show called me later And he was like was that you
And I was like yeah
He explained to me that
We had a good conversation about the thin liquidity
And how little
How little of an investment
Could make such a large effect
It was crazy
That's how little it takes by the way
Yeah it wouldn't take much to affect Chia now
And that's the same way though
And that's the problem, is we have Chia
pretty much
selling off 50k clips,
and we don't know where it's going.
Actually, to be fair, we don't even know if the market maker is selling
them, because I don't know where the fuck they would sell them.
I don't know where the money would
go. Like, there's $10,000
up, and you're raising the price fucking, what,
3, 4 bucks? That means, what,
$10,000 down, you're probably lowering it three four bucks where the fuck can you even sell 50,000
xch i don't think they're like that's what i was saying earlier like i think if she like they have
what like 19 million tokens left of their pre-farm if they sold all 19 million tokens there's no i
don't even think they fucking get $19 million out of it,
dude.
Where's the buy side?
Where's the Bitcoin on the other side?
Where's the fucking USDC on the other side?
Like,
and I don't try,
like centralized exchanges is all fugazi fucking math,
man.
Like that's what I was going to say.
If they're shipping it to the centralized exchange, if they're shipping it to the centralized exchange if they're shipping them to the centralized exchange they're holding
on to it just in case they got to send it out of their wallets but the reality is it's just a video
game on a screen it's not on change watch how fast the mark the fucking the order book moves
for xgh on the centralized exchanges and you'll know it's fake you're like there's no way that
there's like maybe bots are buying...
Fucking our bots are just fractionalizing buys.
But there's no way somebody's buying and selling that constantly.
That constantly.
When a $10,000 buy from somebody that we know raises the price of...
Makes a giant fucking wick.
Jesus Christ.
I don't know, man. This is we just i i i'm looking at the numbers
i'm fucking crunching the math and that's all i'm looking at when i'm like kind of like
what's going on here because like like if you were like to listen to gene speak you
would think that things were way different and that's kind of where i'm coming
from it's like i don't know i don't see i don't like understand how gene can be so confident
some days because i don't see the i don't see it i see like the tang gang coming in with their
little bullshit fucking community like d5 community and just steamrolling an entire 100 000 k community of fucking people that i all told me i was stupid
this is the other thing b flow i had the entire farming community tell me i was an idiot
i had the entire like i had she i had fucking gene fucking tell me i was an idiot for putting
marmots on chain and they probably got a good reason well I mean we were fucking around with his chain at one point
to be fair that was a legit
shot at CNI and the fact
that they thought they controlled the chain
and they never do because
I put marmots on that bitch and there will forever be
marmots on that bitch
so besides that
dude I've always been the counterculture motherfucker on this chain
ever since
the whole sophisticated thing was because gene called my team unsophisticated
on a fucking space one day or no it was in it was actually in a fucking ama like one of the old amas
and i went right into the fucking uh dude i was i was like sleeping dude i was like having a nap i
don't even remember why i think i was like hung over from the night before. And fucking, I just wake up.
It's like seven o'clock at night and I'm coming out of the stupor.
And then I just fucking look at my discord and I'm like, fucking, but people are like,
yo, Gene called us fucking unsophisticated fucking ass hats or something.
So I went into fucking, I went into the discord.
You guys are all fucking unsophisticated.
You guys, fuck you.
Like, who the fuck do you think you are calling my guys fucking stupid like yeah we'll fucking show you
how fucking smart this shit is and then i mean in hindsight ordinals dean was giving us hell of a
praise when those things came out like dude i did ordinals before ordinals ordinals man like i did
inscriptions before inscriptions before there was inscriptions man we did this
shit so long ago now no it's not we weren't the first ones there was crypto punks um fucking uh
rare pepes like there was a bunch of shit like i mean fucking they inscribed the first block
so there was like it's not like the sorry the first bitcoin block was inscribed by satoshi
with a saying i forget what it is
um but there's like a saying there's like a little saying there um that he inscribed on the first block in the memo field that's the kind of like dude so that was just the precedent of it
it's just and then everybody told me nfts were stupid and everybody told me coins were stupid
look at it now look at them now baby they're all
buying my bags that's what i mean like i've been riding an uphill battle i feel like this is my
new battle is we got to get this defy thing rolling we got to get that we got it we need
that we need like the fucking troops to come like back up the gang bro well for the farmers and stuff
like that i think uh like what they have
on the evms as far as taking loans out against your crypto that's really their only option to
be able to provide that other side of it is if they take their loans out on the crypt on the xch
that they mine or whatever they got you know the hundreds of thousands whatever that they have they
taken a little mini loan on it now they have the other side of the trade. But I don't think you have that on Chia, do you?
No, well, that's what we were talking about earlier too.
The BYC, the circuit DAO,
apparently you're going to be able to borrow against your coins.
So hopefully that solves some people's issues.
But even then, like I said, we could have been dude when chia was like fucking 80 or
75 60 like we could have been still we could have been putting coins in the decks eventually it's
going to even itself out so that you're not going you know what i mean like we could have stopped
the bleed at 20 if we would have been smart as a community and thickened up the pools. How are you going to do that if all you had was XCH?
You could sell XCH
for USDT.
Which is going to provide sell pressure.
You can go buy
and bring it back. That's the thing.
You could go to KuCoin
and sell
XCH for USDT, buy
some Bitcoin and bring it back and then
pair that with your fucking shit.
If you know that you can do it.
Dude, I'm not even against people selling their coins.
I'm just saying we need to thicken up the pools once you do.
Dude, I would
prefer Chia just to sell a million tokens
for Bitcoin and then fucking put all those
fucking tokens up with another million tokens.
I don't care if it drops the price to a dollar.
Just want it done. I just want to see
the fucking thick pairs
because that's what's going to like, dude, nobody's
going to come from the retail side
for thin liquidity and
centralized fucking
pre-farm.
It's been proven. It's why a lot of
the ETH miners didn't even come over
because of the
pre-farm like there's there was a huge group of eth proof of work guys that said fuck chia
because and even like bitcoin guys that said fuck chia because of the pre-farm
they're like no we're not gonna we're not gonna put uh invest in this shit because
these guys own all the tokens why the fuck would we? Like, the pre-farm is definitely something that has been
controversial since day one.
And that's kind of the other thing, is that, like,
Chia printed coins out of thin air.
So they have a responsibility to kind of
do some of this shit. I don't know.
You know, they didn't cost
C&I anything for their
tokens. It was free.
They were free. They didn't spend a fucking cent
on them. So if they
should be putting up a million dollars worth
of fucking USDT
for it, even just for their own good.
I don't know. It's just unprecedented
in crypto. Understandably, like the
IPO kind of plays into
this too. I don't think
their whole idea is they don't want to manipulate any markets
or whatever i guess it would come off as manipulating the market if they did that
but like then they just end up going and doing like an ico with this market maker anyway so like
what's more shady you know putting up your tokens that well they might not be able to though if
they're trying to separate the company as a security with the blockchain that's decentralized or a commodity though they
might not might not legally be able to just do that otherwise yeah there's some legal mumbo
jumbo there like the the good news is and this is the thing before is they've never gone the crypto
route they've never done the shady liquidity plays that richard hart does and shit like they've
they've always kept it
like okay we're gonna be the legit crypto we're gonna do this the right way like but at the same
time they're still dumping on our heads like whether it's legal or not like whether it's
legal or illegal the way that they're doing it they're still dumping on your fucking head
right so that's kind of like what you got to kind of you got to balance
it's like whether it's legal or illegal i think doesn't really matter when the fucking price is
just getting absolutely shit stormed and cni is not doing anything to back it up and in fact
they're making it even worse by like dude they said they were never going to sell pre-farm
in the white paper it was like we're not we're going to hold it this is a security thing it's just going to be for proof of concept
we and if we do move tokens you'll get 90 days but did you get any 90 day notice that they were
going to sell 50 000 xch like yesterday probably two days ago nope so uh we've come up like i mean there's hit and miss like i
said like we've we're just the balance right i'm just looking at the numbers i want to see some
better numbers and i think it is it's not our responsibility to do it it's not farm it's not
farmers responsibility it's cni's responsibility realistically they got a bunch of free tokens
man and they can't even put up liquidity for their own shit like obviously they don't like you don't i get it too they don't want
to be everybody's exit liquidity fucking gene goes and throws a million dollars in a pool
motherfuckers are just gonna sell all of their chia and do it but like you gotta do something
eventually like something's gotta give man you can't just fucking nobody like everybody just can't do nothing it doesn't work man somebody's got to do something either like a
whale's got to buy or like somebody that is a whale like has to defend their investment like
maybe it's not chia that defends the coin price maybe cni never defends the coin price and they
just always sell it into people trying to defend the coin price I don't know but like somebody's got to do it dude it can't like we can't just go this
way forever like it's just going to be forever down I don't think that fee pressure on chia and
filling blocks is going to negate the amount of down pressure that we have like microsoft does not need to go and buy a million
chia to fucking do their permuto shit they can do it with 10xch right now you can get millions and
millions of transactions on chia with fucking 10xch like we like yeah but it's not about just one
place though it's about the rest of the fucking companies so if what if the rest of the fucking companies. So if the rest of the companies buy 10XCH,
that's going to stack up,
just like Tangany adding little bits of liquidity
just to stack up as a pool.
The first go at it's not going to solve all the problems.
We're going to need to go, though.
That's the problem is we haven't even done a first go.
Nobody's moving, man. It's just like deer, everybody's deer in the headlights over here. Nobody wants to make the first move because nobody wants to be that fucking the dude. Somebody gets screwed on the bottom too. Somebody to come in and use it, are they going to actually be buying it?
Or is it going to be something that CNI, you know, gives them like the first hit for free kind of thing, you know?
So they give them, you know, their free Chuck E. Cheese tokens to go play around.
Yeah, probably.
I mean, possibly.
And that's what I mean.
Like, how many tokens do they need to buy?
None.
So like as a community,
we're sitting over here getting told like,
this is going to fucking rip $30,000 a coin,
but I don't,
I don't see it yet,
man.
I'm just,
that's all me.
And that's all me and Jack,
I think are kind of getting that is like,
we just,
we've,
we've heard it.
Like dude, carbon market was supposed to be this huge thing i don't even like you can see it but it doesn't
fill the blocks it was supposed to fill the blocks you think the carbon credit market would
fill blocks but i guess that's more of a data layer thing too it's less of a so i don't know
man it's just some confusion I just want to
prove it at this point man
if Chia is the best def I prove it
if we got to do it
we'll do it
but you got to remember even we're
fucking playing with Chia on
bass we're not playing with Chia
on Chia
well I mean we are I shouldn't say that we are playing with Chia on Chia we're in playing with chia on chia so well well i mean we are it's not i shouldn't say that we are
playing with chia on chia like we're in tibetan shit but i mean our main focus right now is the
gang is on base still trying to capture that market coming in and out which is smart actually
for us because we that's what i mean like we're capturing the flow right like that's the whole
like gang mentality that we've had lately with liquidity is capturing the flow of in and out.
So that's what you want to do.
I'm just surprised nobody wants to do it in Chia.
Like, you know what I mean, B-Flow?
Like, not everybody can do it.
But how are they going to do it?
How are they going to do it in Chia?
Because it doesn't operate the same as it does on base or pulse chain or it doesn't give you that same opportunity to do
that so i mean the fact that we have multi-chains bridging it over it gives access for people like
for me i do stuff on chia i don't understand everything but i still fuck around with a lot
of stuff i still have stuff in tibet swap i don't know where those lp tokens are but they're there somewhere but like to bring
over the masses it's got to be as simple as clicking buttons because i remember when i first
was getting into chia i was i'd already been doing defy and i looked at this and i'm like what the
is this so the fact that you can have it easily accessible, whether it's on a centralized exchange or
in the EVM where people are already defying around and just clicking buttons, I mean,
that's where you're going to get the mass exposure of it. It's where the mass of people are.
So if we can do this again on Ethereum, you're just opening it up to a pool of people that are
already warmed up to the way they do business.
But now you offered that product where they're doing business.
And then maybe they'll eventually educate themselves and eventually it'll be the blockchain of the future.
But you got to get into their front door first.
It's just like the problem with PulseChain.
Everyone was like, come to PulseChain, come to PulseChain.
Everyone's like, why the fuck would I do that?
I got all my comfort zones.
All my shit is right here at the click, click, click, click.
Actually, I agree with you.
And you know what, B-Flow?
I see a lot of cross.
Dude, that's why I feel like we get along so well.
The Pulse Chain, Hexacan, Chia communities.
There's so much cross here, man.
You don't realize it.
It's like they're the complete opposite coins
but yet they're still the same fucking problems
on both chains
it's insane dude
like dude I swear to god
some days I feel like the chia community
just looks at Gene and Bram
like sack daddy
and that's the problem
as a community we can't look
we need C&I to be our friend.
But like we don't need to look up to them as a sack daddy.
Like we need to step it up.
Like and the Tang Gang stepping up.
But until people are in profits.
Chia, like there's a there's another side of the Chia community not stepping up, dude.
And there's I'm telling you, man, like these motherfuckers, there's there, there's whales and shit out there that could be
doing the same thing that
we're doing at any bigger
fucking scale, man.
Are those whales
even in profit, though?
Are those whales even in profit, though?
I believe so. Absolutely, man.
Dude, there's farmers out there
spending fucking
money on hard drives still.
Why the fuck would you?
That doesn't mean they're in profit.
Huh?
That doesn't mean they're in profit.
Yeah, but then they're just chasing their fucking tail, man.
Like, you can go throw some, like, now take some of the coins that you're holding and losing on, go throw them in liquidity, and now you're doubling down on your earnings.
Like, even if you're just earning another fucking, you know, $18 a day or whatever it is, like, at least now you're doubling down on your earnings like even if you're just earning another fucking you know 18 a day or whatever it is like at least now you're earning fucking 36 now that changes
your outlook on like what your profit margins are and shit and i'm not saying that's what i mean like
you don't have to just go throw all of your goddamn tokens into liquidity but there needs to be like
some kind of educational like hey farmers like if you guys want to fucking
help out and like you know and you got 10 000 coins like throw even 500 and you'll earn just
as much as you're earning from your fucking farm that you spent 100 grand on or more and that's
the thing is like dude farmers are getting fucked more than anybody right now as the price is low like they have to sell their coins man they have overhead like dude the the when the
electricity bill comes in man that shit is no joke bro like and that needs real us dollars or
whatever you're spending this pay like you can't you can't fuck you gotta sell your chia like they
have to sell chia so like if they had better yeah like if they had better, if they had more liquidity to sell into,
the price wouldn't be fucking so ridiculous.
That's what I mean.
Like had we been selling our chia at $80
and then putting a little bit into liquidity,
we would have,
we can fit,
we would have been able to facilitate more U S dollars
on the other side of the pool as we were going down.
And we would eventually,
you know, kind of balance
It out to where that medium
Hits where we find that natural
Bottom which we're going to find
Where would you have done that back then
Where would you have done that back then because
If a lot of the stuff you were doing was
KuCoin you weren't able to really I mean you can
Provide limit orders but you weren't able
To provide liquidity
You can't provide the liquidity if you don't have the option so we could have
done some shit on dexie like i said it's clunky that's the main thing is it's clunky to do this
shit but if you got kucoin and if you got kucoin and you got fucking uh crypto.com
and people are mainly utilizing them as opposed to the chia blockchain it doesn't matter how much
you're providing on the chia blockchain if people are just going there to just dump buy sell they
can't provide liquidity on the places that have the most liquidity yeah yeah and not yeah you know
either way the price is going to go down so exactly so until you have the option to to
support your community you're kind of just know, you're just kind of stuck.
But it's the same thing with like Pulse Chain.
Like when you say they look at Gene as the sack daddy.
Well, I mean, if there ain't green candles
for people that at least feel in profit,
if not actually be in profit,
they're gonna turn to the people who have the money
who quote unquote took the sacrifice
that are still sitting on hundreds of millions
or whatever they got and go,
hey, come save me
because I ain't got no more fucking money.
You know?
So until the green candles come,
you're not going to have people
able to really provide what is needed.
And it's just going to be a spiral.
I mean, we've also been here for-
That's our opportunity though.
We've also been here for four years
and we've had the option to really hammer down
and focus on these things
and we've never done it either.
Well, you had four years, but you didn't have all the tools either.
Yeah, that's true.
Now you have the tools.
Now you're not with all the stuff on it.
I don't think we made them better.
We didn't utilize them.
The focus wasn't there on it.
The Chia community really loves the shiny thing.
The Chia community really loves the shiny thing.
Oh, she's farting on me.
Oh, she's farting on me.
Sorry, that last part was not directed to you guys.
We'll goose this shit on that idea, I guess.
She knows when you're full of shit.
But anyways, I'll just keep providing the lick lick and we'll just see where it goes because
now the now the rails are available and after another year or two if that still hasn't changed
then you can have an argument like what the fuck you have the you have the tools although they're
kind of a dichotomy here because then if they do go to provide something where are they going to
provide it and it's like oh on the evm which
is kind of contradictory to the chain that you have you know what i mean like this is the catch
22 that i was not gonna look sucks man because like we're getting completely fucked it's like
we're the best d5 but we have no d5 i love you but oh my god it's the it's we we're like the the crypto that's not a crypto it's so funny
it's sad but we're gonna get through this literally we're gonna get there man like we're
built like the tools are being built like an oracle would be a huge fucking thing like
if you could are between change that would be great but people need to start building bots and shit too that's the other thing you know
tlf bots or or or offer file bots or whatever i don't fucking know we need some kind of like
crazy bot culture but the other thing is like the i I think they kind of, like,
CNI is always kind of, like, I don't know.
They've always told people to hold and shit.
They've never told people to get into
providing liquidity or anything.
Maybe now they'll change.
Yeah, that was the same thing that they did in Hex
because they were the ones providing all the liquidity,
collecting all the fees.
Yeah, thankfully, I mean,
we don't have chia doing that but i
wish they would sometimes like that's what i mean like i just wish that like cni would just like
okay they got all these coins for free i just wish they would put up like a million dollars of usdc
or something just as a show of faith you know of at least of anything like we believe in our defi enough that we're gonna invest like
even a hundred thousand dollars or something like in some kind of i got it i got i think i figured
it out i'll create a one of one gnft he can buy it from me for a million and i'll just pop it in
on all the tier one pairs or all the tier one i I mean, if Hunter Biden can do it, I can do it, right?
I mean, it's essentially the same thing.
You said mine's not going to go to crack and hookers, at least initially.
Mine will go to buy side liquidity.
Dude, and that's what I mean.
Like, dude, we could turn this around with crypto.
I'm telling you, man.
The whole thing that I don't understand is the legal side of it.
I just know we're getting legally fucking dumped on right now.
Okay, that's all I can know.
I'm just a simple goose that looks at a screen all day that looks at a lot of numbers.
And I just know that we're getting like whether it's illegal or legal.
You guys can argue that amongst yourselves, but I just know it's fucking getting we're getting dumped on bro
and it's not me it's it's it's a cross between the farming community who has overhead and cni
who has overhead so all these motherfuckers out here got overhead and they're just waiting for
us to come and save them dude that's crazy man like we'll do it b flow like listen we'll eat
the bags bro we you know we're built for pain and we'll buy all the xch when it goes to zero
we will own all of i will own every single coin if you guys just want to give it to me
but um listen this is this this is what i mean man like we need these big brain fucking hundred thousand dollar fucking networking pros
that can slap together goddamn racks and servers for days to start to understand that like it's
not necessarily degen culture to fucking earn you know 30 percent apy on your fucking a portion of
your bag man like you can actually earn you know use your money
to make some money because that's always been my thing is like dude i've hated chia for so long
because you could never do anything with it except fucking buy it and sell it on an exchange it's so
oops sorry foods my bad fingers anyway this is so annoying that like not be able to do anything
with it like once you like going over to pulse chain was so refreshing it's like oh there's a yield farm oh
there's this click this button here do this with your shit it's like oh thank god i don't have to
just hold it i can earn even a coin that's even more yeah but maybe if they get if they get those
if they get buy cash and stuff if they get buy cash and people can take loans out on their crypto
then maybe that can be the turning point on it because that i mean if you don't do it at that point then yeah it's
like hey you guys aren't doing your job but i mean that's a good point if you have an avenue to take
a loan out on it and you can depending on what bike cash is going to do with the with the xch
that it takes its loan out when it gets liquidated i don't know if it's just going to sell it which
might create sell pressure but good point either way point. Either way, initially, they could fucking get it.
They could get the
whatever liquidity they want and then pop it in
if they wanted to do that. That could be the turning point
because up until then, you don't
really have an option to fucking get out of your position
without dumping it on somebody.
And you're right.
But, I mean, we could have dumped
our coins smarter, too. That's all.
That's all it is.
That's all it is, man. We could have dumped our coins smarter too. That's all. That's all it is. That's all it is,
man.
We could have dumped our coins smarter.
Like when Chia was $80 a token,
we could have done so much more.
We missed our opportunity to shore up the market.
Like we should have had,
like,
I mean,
I don't know who is we,
but like the Chia overall community, like it would have been nicer if it would have came out
with a dex or something like i don't know there may be something maybe there was a little bit
more infrastructure that it could have launched with before it actually went in that there probably
could have been some tooling that they neglected to maybe it was launched a little before it needed to be launched or i don't know
maybe it needed to launch then but i don't know it's like kind of i think the launch really kind
of fucking buggered with chia a lot it it stopped the momentum pretty early and then that caused
kind of a snowball effect of just not good choices like we got rid of a lot of the guys that probably would have provided
liquidity early when they were buying tokens
at $1,100
and watching their investment, fuck it,
like their $100,000 buys go down
to zero in
fucking a couple days.
Oh, you mean like
regular crypto? Yeah, pretty much like regular
crypto. That's what I mean.
Like any other fucking launch?
A lot of those guys that did that and got mad, and dude a lot of people like oh you do oh you guys don't remember might not remember this time but there was a time when
before mad max plotter came out you had to have like 20 computers to fucking plot
so guys were buying like fucking like uh like thread ripper fucking cpus to plot and they bought like
20 of them and then mad max came out with a plotter and you could do the same thing and
fucking with one computer in like one day so all those computers that they bought were now like
hardware but like they're virtually like kind of worthless because you didn't need them in the
first place like there was a lot of guys like i could have just bought hard drives like it was fucking hilarious when that happened man i was
like yeah you could have just not done anything and fuck and probably would have been better off
but you did but yeah so i think we we scared off a lot of the uh liquidity providers kind of early
because some of those guys that came in and bought Chia at like even $100 and shit
thinking that like it would bounce back
from there like they just got
fucking annihilated so we lost some of our
trading guys along the way
but even then
like it's that was supply
a lot of it is supply and demand like
we're printing fucking more new coins
every day so it's not like there's
it's an inflationary token it's not like there's... It's an inflationary token.
It's not like it's deflating at all.
Ready?
Not like Space Bucks, baby.
Space Bucks is deflating every time you guys trade Space Bucks.
Same with the...
HOA is deflating.
Hey, Foods.
I just want to say...
Apprehensive came up.
So I just want to say, hey, man.
And then just jump in with Foods. Because he want to say apprehensive came up, so I just want to say hey, man, and just jump in with Foods, because
he'll just keep talking.
No problem, man. Hey, GM,
GM, everybody.
Good morning, man. Good morning.
Hey, Foods, do you believe that the game plan
from when Chia launched up until now has
changed drastically, or is it still the same with the same game plan from launch?
I'll give it to CNI and Gene. Their game plan has not changed since day one, and that's kind of one of the most bullish things that I would give them is they've not, they've stuck to their guns, man, through all the shit that has happened on Chia.
They've stuck to their fucking guns, man.
Like they could do what I'm saying and go put a million dollars of liquidity in the pools, but they're not going to because they're sticking to their fucking guns.
And they're like, you know what I mean?
So like in that respect, no.
Have they diverted and maybe
done some things that they said they weren't gonna do yes but like in doing so they're still
sticking to their original ethos of like we're going after microsoft we're going after the big
biz like the enterprise customers we don't necessarily care as much like we do we do care about to read the
little guys you know we like the nfts and stuff like we like the the retail market to a point
like it's cool that you guys are here we need you but like at the end of the day our foe like cni's
focus has always been oh my sorry we have a fussy-mussy here.
I don't know if you guys can hear her crying.
No, they've stuck to their guns in terms of like,
this is what we're doing, this is our quest.
End goal is whatever.
I guess it's kind of evolved a little bit.
At first we were talking about carbon,
now we're talking about stocks and trusts.
Arguably they've done.
They did the carbon stuff.
I don't really know if that came to the fruition that they thought.
Didn't come to the fruition that I kind of thought.
Maybe it did.
It definitely proved the concept that everything works.
Yeah.
They've pivoted on some things like I know one of the
big things was they said they were never going to sell
the pre-farm without
sufficient whatever
and I guess they do
kind of let people know that they're selling
the pre-farm but
I can understand why people are upset about that
especially early farmers.
Like, there was a time when they said,
oh, we're never going to sell a token from, you know,
and then they're like, well, we're never going to sell a token
unless we give you 90 days.
And then they're like, well, we're just going to sell tokens now
and we'll let you know when you know.
So it's kind of evolved a little bit.
But with, you know, historically coming from a chain,
it's 90% plus the low sack price moment's initiation,
red candles isn't something that's foreign to us.
We're kind of used to it and the volatility also.
With saying that in mind, I look at it as a positive opportunity, um, for everybody. The lower the price goes, the better opportunity we have to get in at a lower price, you know,
especially if you have conviction in the plan that they're trying to implement moving forward.
Um, if it's a problem as far as with, you know, the farmers not being on the same page with, you know, with everybody else, you know, like Tangang and all the other groups, I think maybe we need to implement a campaign where we start encouraging, you know, people to start farming and to, you know, hold and add liquidity because, you know, it's not going to benefit us going to benefit us just getting upset about it.
I mean, that's the same scenario that we were on with Pulse Chain, with Sack Daddy.
Everybody's waiting for Sack Daddy to come save us.
We can't wait on someone to save us.
We got to save ourselves.
We got to do what we can to make things happen.
So I don't know what your thoughts on that is.
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
We can't just look up to Gene and Bram and wait for them to come and fucking save us.
And there's been a lot of that in Chia.
And I think the farming community has been the greatest kind of proponent of that.
They're also the largest community in Chia.
I mean, that's the problem.
Some of the maxis out here
that probably should be taking
care of themselves are
looking for
the proverbial Richard Hart to fucking
save them when Gene's not
coming to save us, guys. He's not Richard Hart. He's not coming to save us guys like he's not
richard hart he's not coming to pump the bags he's fucking here to make money for him and his team
like he gets paid four hundred thousand dollars a year to fucking lead a team they all make like
they're all you know it's their lives probably more than it is ours but then they they need to
understand too like
Marie and Jack are coming from like this is our life too man like we're investors too that I think
that's where the discord comes in is a little bit is you know chia chia doesn't necessarily like
cni sometimes doesn't look at us with enough respect and I've been trying to get them to
look at us with respect for years like the communities should
earn respect you know like you can shit on all these mock chains and all this shit but they have
built the entire crypto fucking community and like there's a lot of money in that crypto community
that could be coming over to chia that you're shitting on for what reason because you're better
than them it doesn't sound like it some days. Just because you're
getting all of these enterprise adoption
fucking, you know,
you're getting Microsoft and Apple and Braggom
and New York Stock Exchange doesn't mean you can't
fucking help the little
guy too. I don't know. There's
just a little bit of a weird
back and forth.
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
My viewpoint on it is that as a community,
we have to be in the trenches.
We have to continue to evolve and build
and to position ourselves
because I don't want to trade against,
you know, smart money that's coming in
or Wall Street that's coming in.
The best position
that we can have is
to be gatekeepers.
We have to, and whatever that
however that defines out
or comes out to be,
no matter what they do when they come in,
they have to go through us.
Yep, I agree with that.
And we charge your tags
and that's how we're gonna we're gonna make a difference how we're gonna be establishing and and it really you know we we make the difference because we're not waiting on gene
we're not waiting on anybody else we've established something and we have to provide a service or
our utility that's essential that everyone that comes on the Chia has to go through us
and, you know, they have to pay their fine.
And that's how we make our mark.
Yeah, and I think, dude, that's what I mean.
I think we got to rally the Chia troops.
That's what I was kind of talking to B-Flow earlier.
Like the Tang Gang's coming in with a fucking vengeance and we're like the spartans
and like there's 300 of us versus fucking like the whole world basically right but like at the
same time there's like this camp of fucking guys over here on the on the chia side that like we
don't necessarily talk to a lot like i do maybe a little bit more because I'm in the discords.
I've been farming for a while.
I don't know if like you guys are into that, to the farming stuff,
but like, so I'm in kind of like some of the pool discords and stuff.
So I've been part of the farming community too.
So I talked to some of the guys that like aren't necessarily on Twitter
every day and don't even really talk on discord that much.
Maybe they come in like once a month or whatever,
but that's kind of like those are the
guys we got to get man the guys that still have like you know like fucking 10 petabytes of fucking
raw storage like and they can just flip on at any moment and like you know what i mean like they
farmed like thousands and thousands of chia like they could come in and just fucking really help us
as a community and help themselves too like dude i'm trying to save these motherfuckers dude like farmers are bleeding
right now bro like if you're a farmer trying to fucking pay your electricity bill at fucking
one chia a block and maybe if you know like do you guys know how hard it is to win a block on
chia it is fucking hard like if you think that're going to go throw a hard drive on the chia and
win a block,
you are firmly mistaken.
My friend,
it's going to take,
you know,
your,
your time to win might be years.
Like I had 120 terabytes and my time to win was like four months.
And I would be lucky to see a block in four months.
And like,
that's even at two chia.
Like,
so even if chia is $60, 60 fucking i'd be lucky to be earning
you know 120 a year with 100 with 120 terabytes so i'm not even earning a dollar a terabyte
so like i mean if chia is fucking nine dollars that's crazy so like basically the point is is
like we need to kind of help these guys help themselves at this
point because if not the network is going to suffer because farmers are not going to be able
to sustain themselves what are they going to sell their coins into the farmers need exit liquidity
the farmers need exit liquidity guys they need it they need the u.s dollars and the more u.s dollars they can have the more secure the blockchain can
be you know what i mean the more that everybody can earn the more better it is for everybody the
more blocks are worth but like i don't agree i don't necessarily agree 100 with gene when he says
that you know fucking trad fi is going to come in and save our asses like no i think it's like this
is what i was talking about too with track it's like it's a crypto problem the the the chia
tokenomic problem is a crypto problem man it's not a trad fi problem it's like even if trad fi
comes in we're still gonna have this crypto problem so it's it's not going away just because Microsoft is coming.
Like, the low liquidity,
the fucking lack of DeFi and shit,
all that's still going to be here whether
Microsoft is here or not.
The fucking entire goddamn carbon market
is on, Chia. You guys
probably would have never known that unless I
told you.
Then why not just set up
or, you know, come up with some software or where you do an otc
10 or 15 discount and allow them to put up their coins and people can come in and purchase them
you know i'm not i'm not sure what the essential exchange i'm not sure like the mindset right like
so as a farmer i know like well put it this way, like I'm not even
a real farmer. I only had 120 terabytes.
Like my fucking
my electricity bill for
Chia was like maybe five bucks or ten
bucks a month. It wasn't that much. It was like basically
the price of running a graphics card
all month.
It was way cheaper than running
my fucking ETH proof of work
rig, that's for sure. Or my nice hash rig that I
had.
Which was like $100
a month in electricity.
Actually, it was a little bit more. It was like $120.
But so, let's put it this way.
When you start scaling up
your chia shit, though, so if you have a petabyte
and then maybe a rack,
you probably would have a rack and and a half two racks almost um like that would cost you that
probably you're looking at you know 100 200 a month to run so chia at nine dollars earning
maybe maybe you're earning like you know four chia a month you're not paying your electricity bill so we're getting to that
point where network's gonna suffer if the farmers don't figure out that hey listen okay i farm the
chia i put one chia into my cold wallet i put one chia into my fucking warm wallet i buy one
fucking stupid nft and then i put one xch into liquidity every month it's i feel like it's
almost too late but if we could turn it around and just get some of the the things like you know
just fix it now we can stop the bleeding here i mean we're already at the bottom like eventually
we got to create the bottom now i think like i don't see the bottom until we've created there's no bottom
here this goes this goes straight to zero unless we create a resistance somewhere as a community
and dude somebody's got to create a resistance somewhere or else this goes straight to zero
man i don't know i don't know oh dude i thought we were good dude i thought gooey was fucking
right man i thought 12ey was fucking right man
I thought $12 chia was going to be the bottom
I was just kidding around with $6 man
It was a joke I didn't mean it for real
Like I don't want to see
$6 chia
You know how much dry powder I have to buy chia
None man I'm fucking broke dude I need chia
To rip now
I've been spending fucking money on chia for
Four years I can't afford to be putting
more money into it even if i am earning free money every week from fucking nine millimeter
and shit like i can't i just can't i just can't man y'all are new around here man y'all motherfuckers
like that's what i mean like that's why i love the tang gang man you guys make me so bullish
on everything like you guys give me hope for everything around here because i like facts and dude i'm just glad that i can be like
a chia guy that's negative about chia so that like i can also go over like you know what i mean like
i kind of do this kind of shit so that you know you guys don't have to like like i'm the i kind
of like you know what i mean like i'm i'm Chia, so GUI can be super uber positive and it really works out.
And then I can go be super uber positive
on Chia, or on Pulse Chain
and GUI, you know what I mean?
The flow is there, man.
I'm just trying to be realistic here.
I love you guys, man.
I'm not trying to get anybody hurt.
It's realism, man.
We're the DeFi experts in the room,
so we gotta fucking teach these motherfuckers how to stop the bleed, or else we're just gonna keep bleeding.
Yeah, I kinda hope that, well, I don't hope it, but if it happens, it's welcome.
Because I'm gonna drop, like, cakes of dropout.
Listen, Neil, I hope you motherfuckers are the ones buying the coins, bro.
As long as the Tang Gang is buying all the coins at the bottom, man,
we're fucking in good hands because I know y'all motherfuckers know what to do.
That's what I mean.
Like, I can't trust some of the Chia community to do the same thing.
I can't anymore.
We've done it.
We've been together.
We've been out here in the trenches.
The opportunity to come and fucking live the orange life is nigh.
That's what I mean.
We'll give it a little bit of time.
You know, Dunktober's coming.
Listen, I'm a patient man.
I'm a patient man.
I've been in the down 99.
Yeah, but don't you find that Dunktober is kind of the final one?
If nothing happens, if we're at six bucks after Dunktober,
it's kind of like, well.
I'm still in. Let's put it this way.
I'm not leaving. Dude, I will suck every last dollar out of this fucking chain that I can.
I don't give a shit, dude.
I will own all the tokens at zero.
I meant when I said that. I fucking meant when I said that.
I will find dry powder eventually.
Don't kid yourself.
We will own this chain that's what i'm just i don't understand why
the guys are willing to give it up so easy that's my thing like you know i know we're willing to
own it as a group we're fucking we're based life out here like if you got an orange in your name
chances are you were built for this shit like Like you were made for this, but not everybody thinks the way we do.
And I don't think everybody should either.
Like I think that,
that,
you know,
you can't just have everybody providing liquidity or else nobody's buying and
selling.
You still need people buying and selling.
But that's what I mean.
That's where the farmers come in,
man.
Like you can guaranteed farmers are always going to need to sell.
So if you can guarantee that, why wouldn't you provide them that avenue, man?
If we can provide them that avenue, we're just going to get all their tokens.
Like, eventually, we're going to fucking own all the tokens, and the price will start going the right way.
I don't know.
I just don't understand why some of the bros in Chia are so willing to give up control so easily.
Like, Gene's out here on the timeline like fucking, oh yeah, I'm going to buy your Chia are so willing to give up control so easily. Like, Gene's out here on the timeline like fucking, oh yeah, I'm gonna
buy your Chia. Meanwhile, C&I selling
50k clips. Like, doesn't make
sense to me, man.
Like, just fucking stop selling.
Fucking.
That's what I say. That's what I say. OTC
special groups like the gang
or other groups in Chia,
give a discount
and let them buy. And it's exclusive for the groups groups in Chia, give a discount.
And it's exclusive for the groups that are on Chia.
And they get a discount for buying the clips from the farmers.
Everybody else.
That's essentially what the bite cash thing is going to provide.
Or a concept.
Is if they could take a loan out.
They always have it collateralized at like 10-15% or whatever it is,
and then you could take the loan out and get the cash.
If it gets liquidated, you still got the cash if they ever get that implemented.
But I'm all for 10-game discounts.
Don't get me wrong.
My whole thing is just prove it, man. we can sit out here and fucking be like yo permuto is gonna come and save our bacon but let me see it i don't know
richard hart can come say he's gonna come pump the bags tomorrow it doesn't mean anybody's
gonna believe that like yo motherfucker told people to stop buying a token and they still
buy it bro like you can't trust anybody out here man these motherfuckers are crazy
i listen i i trust the gang bro like that's what i mean like we're like the
only trustworthy people in this entire fucking ecosystem
oh man that's why that's why i love you bros man that's why you guys are the fucking
shit that's why we jive man because we know what's going on that's what i mean like i know
that the farmers need to sell tokens and we need to provide them that exit liquidity but like at
the same time you know like somebody's gotta do it we gotta start doing this shit but like i don't want farmers to just sell
though that's the thing too like you know if farmers knew that they could come play the game
with us then the fuck man like you know just like imagine all the fucking extra xch we could have in
nine millimeter if we had a couple of these like petabyte farmers out here to just realize what's
going on telling you man like slowest time lord and josh and those guys we need to get them
man like they have fucking probably thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of
vaccines these are these are the guys i'm trying to i get like i don't want i don't want to see
josh turn off his chia farm when he can just provide liquidity with us and he and like those
guys are actually learning you know what i mean like the guys that like the chia bros that come
and hang out with us they're starting to realize like oh fuck i'm leaving a big fucking piece of the pie on the
table man like i'm fucking i'm screwing up a little bit here right but we just need to get
that out like that kind of idea out to more of them because like the more guys like that we can
get on board with us they're gonna spread it around in their fucking groups of friends too
and like they hang out with a lot of other guys that do this shit right so
it's just like it's like the mind virus we just gotta kind of get it out there little by little
and and yeah like wrote like you know rome wasn't built in a day right so
it's just it's just we're at that stage now where now that we have the defy we need to
fucking abuse the shit out of it like i would love to see a yield farm on Chia one day.
Like, a pussycat farms on Chia.
It would be so fun.
Just for the novelty of it, man.
Just to say somebody did it.
But, like, that, like, incentivized.
Like, that starts, like, the run of incentivization, right?
Like, maybe it fucking fails or whatever.
Like, kind of like our shit did.
But, like, at least it starts the run
right like it gets everybody into the whole like okay like i and we have done that too like fucking
tom pepe has been working wonders with that shit getting a lot of the guys to provide little bits
of liquidity for like their extra rewards and shit like that's the kind of stuff that we need
man like realistically the tang gang's running the first fucking incentive farm on to you that's kind of what we need man we i'm just surprised
so i mean like my whole thing is like i'm just surprised that like the of the hundred thousand
fucking nodes that have come before us you know of all these big brain farmers that have come
before us how come nobody else has done it like why are they waiting for the most degenerate
fucking group of people who probably have the least amount of money?
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, it's just like everybody's looking for the little guy to fuck.
They're looking for the tail to wag the dog here.
And that's exactly what's going to happen if they let the Tang Gang fucking run their shit.
It'll be the little tail that just wags the dog all day.
Like, it's fine.
So I love you bros, man.
We're the Spartans, man. 300 versus the world, baby. I love you bros man we're the spartans man 300 versus the world
baby i don't even know what we're at but like there's like maybe i swear to god there's like
500 of us and we're better than an entire blockchain of p of fucking people that came
before us like it's unreal on fucking real.
Anyways,
we should probably shut this down, man. I've just been bitching and moaning for a while. I still love Gia.
We just need to get it.
We just need to do the shit right.
Set up our little
orange. I was looking for the mute button.
Yeah, yeah. I'm with you, dude. Still love
Gia. Still love Gene. Still love Bram. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you, dude. Still love GS. Still love jeans.
Still love Bram.
The whole thing.
Like,
you know,
whatever,
but there's,
I'm with you.
There's just things that ideally could be fixed,
but we should shut the space down.
I'm about to play some murder,
death,
kill with the young fellow and some call of duty and unwind here for a
little bit before we go back to work.
thanks everyone showing up foods.
Thanks for the ramblings,
man.
I appreciate it.
It was great combo. Yeah. We need every once in in a while we need to talk about these things man like
we can that's what i mean like i don't want people to just necessarily get distracted by
fucking permuto and all this shit like there's there's there's some stuff that we can be working
on in the meantime that like cni doesn't have to do right like yeah and we're doing it too like i'm
not saying that we're not doing it i I'm just saying, keep it up,
guys. Yeah, exactly.
You know, all positive from this.
It can sound a little bitchy,
but it's just
all in good faith, I guess, is the way to say it.
Yeah, we're not yelling at the Tang gang.
Let's put it that way. It's more the guys
that we've been hanging out with on Chia for the last
four years. Like, step it up, guys. Let's go.
It's time. You know? Yeah. Well, with that, everybody, the last four years. Like, step it up, guys. Let's go. It's time. You know?
Yeah.
Well, with that, everybody, thanks for showing up.
Brad, I don't know if you're still with us.
If you are, I'd love for you to take us out in your classic way.
I don't have any music, though.
I got cats and dogs laying on me right now.
Brad's not with us.
Okay.
Well, with that, foods, thanks.
Thanks, everybody that came up.
Thanks for talking.
All the chill chads in the room.
I hope you have a great day.
Is it Wednesday or Thursday?
What day is it?
It's Thursday.
Oh, wow, we're already past hump day.
Friday's tomorrow, guys.
I'm not sure if it's Freeman Friday or not, but stay tuned.
Usual stuff.
Tia Toronto on the 13th.
Jeez, dude, it's like a month away. It's really close. So
that's going to be fun. We will talk to you all later. Peace.
