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To DAO or not to DAO: DAOs & Work-Life Balance 👩👩👦👦⚖️👨💻
Recorded: Oct. 27, 2022 Duration: 1:05:21Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello, friends.
We're just waiting a few moments for the rest of our speakers to arrive.
Mara, I'm trying to make you a speaker, so I don't know if that's coming up on your side or not.
I think there's a little bit of a delay with these things anyway.
But thanks for your patience, guys.
Just in a couple of minutes, we'll get started properly.
I just didn't want to leave you all hanging in silence.
I didn't want to leave you all hanging in silence.
Hello, guys.
Well, I've successfully made a couple of speakers, actually speakers, so that's a great start.
How are you guys?
Yeah, I'm good, thanks.
Can you hear me well?
Sometimes my headphones are very good.
It's a little bit disrupted.
So, yeah, I think less moving, maybe, Evan.
Yeah.
Cool, thanks.
Mar, I think maybe you're on a computer and this needs to be done on a phone, so I don't
know if that's what's the problem for you.
But I'm nominating your speaker and it's not doing anything yet.
Apologies to everyone in the audience who is listening to our technical difficulties.
It's always fun, isn't it?
Hello.
Good morning.
Or good evening.
Hello.
Sorry, I didn't realise I was on mute then.
Yeah, we've got good afternoon over here, but any time zone sort of works, that's fine.
Okay, Elson, I'm just in the process of making you speaker.
Great.
Okay, so I think we're only missing Mar, which is a little bit sad.
Maybe Mar just needs to use the phone instead.
I don't know.
So, yeah, I think we can probably...
Ah, yeah, there we go.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Hi, everyone.
We've got all the speakers nominated.
That's fantastic.
And a few people in the audience as well who I recognise.
Really great to see you guys here.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Yeah, let's just get going then.
So, my name's Alex.
I work for Common Ground.
We are the all-in-one communication platform for Web3 communities, or any community, to be
honest.
And today, we're going to be talking about DAOs and work-life balance, and kind of comparing
the structure that you might have in other workplaces compared to a DAO setup, and whether
you can gain better work-life balance in, you know, different working structures.
And we've got a good few people on the panel and in the audience who are good experts.
Well, we don't like me saying experts, but are very knowledgeable in this kind of area.
So, I think we're going to have a lot to talk about today, and I'm really excited.
Okay.
I'm going to hand it over to the speakers.
So, if one by one, you could introduce yourselves, say a bit about yourself, say where you're from.
And, yeah, maybe say if you have any experience that could relate to the space today.
But no pressure.
Let's start with Ma.
Okay, Ma, I don't know if you're speaking or not, but I can't hear you.
So, I'm going to slide on over to Evan.
Evan, do you want to go?
Yeah, for sure.
Hi, everyone.
My name is Evan.
I worked at Outlier Ventures.
We're a Web3 accelerator.
And at Outliers, I work as the DAO strategy SME.
So, essentially, I just help the DAOs who are going through the program set up their structure, their governance, everything else, community that goes into a DAO.
I help them with best practices and that sort of stuff.
And I guess my experience in the topic at hand is just working with these DAOs and also having worked in Web3 my whole kind of professional career.
Knowing the different groups that people take and all that sort of stuff.
And I'm from Canada, Toronto initially, but I live in London now.
So, that's my introduction.
Thank you, Evan.
That was really great.
Oh, Mars, should we have a go?
Can we hear you?
Yes, yes.
Sorry, sorry.
I didn't switch on the microphone.
So, hello, everyone.
And thank you, Alex, for inviting me.
I'm Mars.
I'm located in Madrid.
I'm from Spain.
And I'm a Web2 professional for almost 22 years.
I've been working in e-commerce.
And now I'm working on luxury.
And I'm helping also come around to roads.
Amazing.
Thank you, Mark.
That's great.
Elsin, should we go next?
Sure.
Hello, everyone.
I'm from Istanbul, Turkey.
I work for PrimeDAO and also Inverter Network.
I've been working in Web2 for the last 10 years.
And I joined the Web2 space for the last year, I can say.
At PrimeDAO, we're building tools that turn DeFi into a cooperative ecosystem.
And we build DAO-to-DAO products and services.
And on the Inverter Network side, it's a platform that streamlines collaborative funding and co-working on proposals in the Web3 space, which is a brand new project.
It's very exciting.
I also have an agency in the Web2 part, which I'm in the role of a founder.
So, yeah, I'm working both in Web3 and Web2 and looking forward to talking with you guys today.
I love that.
Thank you so much.
That was a great introduction.
Yeah.
And I like that perspective of having one foot in Web2 and one foot in Web3.
So, yeah, I think this is going to be good.
CAMS.
And do I say CAMS or Kamala?
Please correct me.
Let's sort that out as well.
Yeah.
My name is Kamala, but I go by CAMS.
So nice to be here and to be with these wonderful speakers.
Thanks for having me.
I work full time in Web3.
It's like 24-7.
I work full time at Blockdaemon, a blockchain infrastructure company.
I've been in the Web3 space for like a year, but it moves so fast that I've been consuming it at like 100 million miles an hour or kilometers an hour.
And I also am a podcast host for the Women Who Web3 podcast on Coindesk Podcast Network.
And it's been a wild ride speaking to guests who are builders, founders, millionaires, successful NFT collection, launchers, entrepreneurs, and so excited to be here and share my perspective on what it's like to work full time in a Web3 company.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that's going to be great.
You've got some really good experience.
And do you have a family as well, Kamz?
I think this is what Blavia told me.
Yes, I have a husband and my beautiful almost eight-month-old son.
So, it's been a journey balancing going to crypto festivals.
He's been to more states and he's about to be going to more countries than like before nine months than I've been before I was like 26 years old.
So, it's amazing.
That's so funny.
Oh, my gosh.
He doesn't realize how cool he is, does he?
I don't think so.
But a lot of people call him like the crypto baby when they see him.
He's like an early adopter.
He has his own ledger already and everything.
That's amazing.
We should definitely have merch with crypto baby on it, I think.
If it doesn't already exist, it probably already does.
Okay.
Right.
We're going to get going then.
I did have a few things outlined that I wanted to talk about today.
So, yeah.
Let's just get stuck in then with talking about kind of the problems that people might face in a traditional working setup.
So, personally, I come from a bit of a corporate structure.
I have been working in Web3 now for this year.
And I did obviously notice when working in a corporate space that you have a few more like restrictions that you might not have when working for a DAO.
And I just want to draw some comparisons, really, and see where we might have maybe more flexibility in some areas and not in others.
So, should we have a look at maybe the problems that people might face with traditional workplace setups?
And whoever feels, you know, excited to speak on that first can just jump in.
I don't want to order everyone.
I can go ahead.
So, when it comes to the problems in the traditional corporate life, I think one of the biggest ones is central decision makers.
It really limits fair distribution of the payroll, of status, and every other important decision.
And this impacts a lot of things.
For example, when an employee knows that his or her or their CEO is the only one who is the decision maker,
sometimes they only try to act good in their perspective.
So, they form relationships with them, they act nice, but then they forget that a teamwork needs to be done
and that there is something more to them, just forming bonds with CEOs.
And vice versa.
Sometimes they don't get close with CEOs, but they perform amazingly within their employees, co-workers.
But the CEO, for some reason, don't know it, doesn't know it.
And then that person doesn't get rewarded for their efforts.
So, DAOs really, I think, build that transparency by eliminating the central decision makers.
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point because I think I heard it said before as well
that the people within some corporate structures, you end up getting promoted.
And that's because, like, your boss likes you, not necessarily because you're more fitting for a promotion
or a new role or something like that.
So, yeah, I think that's a really good point.
Does anyone else want to add something to that?
Yes.
Like, as she's saying, it's not only about that.
I think that the big picture is, like, in big corporations or other type of traditional workspace,
it's, like, among different unconvenience issues in our daily basis is that life is that you are not feeling
that you are in the driver's seat of your own life.
I mean, it's, like, they are driving your time, your growth, and these kind of things are relying on others.
So, then the rest of the issues.
But this is, like, the big picture is that time is not in your side and your growth also.
So, sometimes you want to learn things that you don't have time because you are tight in others' needs companies.
That's it.
Yeah, I know what you mean for sure, Amar.
I wonder if CAMS has got something to contribute on this side.
I don't want to predict what you're going to say, but I feel like you might have something to mention here.
What was the original question, so I make sure you stay on track?
So, we're just doing kind of an overview of, like, comparing, maybe identifying the problems that people might face
within traditional workplace setups.
And the speakers before have just mentioned how it makes you feel like you don't have much ownership.
Yeah.
So, I don't know, because you're still, you're, I see, you're still, you're in, I'm sorry, I'm getting a bit of interference.
Maybe I'll just hand it to you because I think you know what you're going to say.
Oh, yeah.
I, oh, it's so different working in a traditional workplace versus working in, like, a remote Web 3, sort of, a DeFi setting.
When you're working in the movement of Web 3, it's just such a different atmosphere.
For example, traditional companies, there's a lot of regulatory compliance issues.
There's a lot of, there's a lack of flexibility in your workday.
In the United States, it's not mandatory to have maternity leave, for example.
And usually, you have to pay for your health care.
But what I've seen in most Web 3 jobs, especially in my current job right now, I work fully remote.
You can work anywhere in the world.
You don't have to be tied to a location, which is nature to, or is the first nature to traditional jobs.
I have really great maternity leave, really great salary.
There's a lot of autonomy, so I agree with the ownership.
There's a lot of autonomy over your time and your schedule.
I don't have to clock in at 9 a.m. and leave at 5.
I can come in at 6 a.m. and work till 9 and then go eat lunch, go do a doctor's appointment for my baby, come back, join a meeting.
And there's a lot more transparency of, like, runway.
You have more understanding of, like, where your company financially stands.
You have more equity, for example.
So not only ownership of, like, your time and autonomy, but you have the ability to have equity.
And, sorry, my baby in the background.
And your employers for, like, Web3 companies, a lot of them are startup companies, and they want you to come along for the ride so you feel like you're a part of something versus, you know, just a number or something like that, which has definitely been the case for a lot of traditional jobs.
I worked at Chase as a mortgage banker before.
I worked at a university.
I taught.
So it's just a completely different experience.
Yeah, for sure.
I love the baby goggles in the background, by the way.
Yeah.
And, I mean, I hear what you're saying.
And it sounds like, you know, you can still have that kind of corporate structure, but these other things can be achieved.
So some of the problems that we're identifying, say, like, your lack of ownership, can be resolved.
And you mentioned maternity and paternity pay and, like, freelance kind of structures.
Well, not so much freelance, but, you know, like, with the flexible hours and being able to clock in and clock out at certain times, you know, it does sound like these things, maybe they're not just specific to how DAOs work.
It's just things that can be identified as pain points that can be resolved by people or companies who prioritize them.
But I think, yeah, that was a good roundoff of some of the problems.
Evan, I don't know if you want to chip in here with anything.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think those are all really good points.
The traditional corporate structure is a bit less good than the DAO structure.
But I think one of the big things as well is going back to the ownership piece, it allows for a lot of people's voices to be heard, whether they're kind of new into the industry or they've been in it for, like, 10 years.
In a traditional corporate model, if you were just joining a company, you'd have to go through many different managers and layers of hierarchy for an idea that you come out with or come up with to be heard or even implemented.
But with, like, a DAO model, you're a lot more likely just to have, like, a great idea, kind of submit it to as a proposal and have that pass through or, like, promote it within the organization so that you can have more ideas and add to it and iterate on it, which is also something that corporates are trying to do through, like, innovation tools.
I think there's a couple, like, SaaS, enterprise SaaS startups that are creating tools for, like, innovation management and to have anyone's voices heard.
But that's just being implemented now.
And I feel like not very many corporations are doing that to their full extent or even acting upon what the employees want or their ideas and that sort of thing.
And so through, like, a DAO model, you're able to not only have your voice heard by lots of different people, but also see that come to fruition once a proposal is passed or even if you just want to act on your own and implement it yourself.
Yeah, really interesting.
So a case of kind of, like, blending those models then, isn't it?
So, yeah, okay.
So in terms of maybe, like, the problems that are faced, I think we've identified quite a few of them.
But please chip in if you have thought of anything else in the meantime.
And, yeah, it was interesting.
I think what somebody said about, I think it was Cam's actually, about the DAO usually being a startup.
And, you know, so you kind of, you can go from having an almost feeling like you have almost no ownership in a company, but then working for a DAO and a startup, and you really do have ownership then, don't you?
Because you're really included and your work really matters, especially in a startup when sort of every day makes a difference into how successful the company might be.
So it can be quite a flip from one side to the other.
Okay, I'm going to have a think about, so from identifying those problems, do we think that working for a DAO is a good alternative to that?
So say if you are working in a corporate structure, and, you know, you are finding the work a bit inflexible, and you're not able to work remotely, and you're not getting very good paternity or maternity leave, and things like this, is a good alternative to work for a DAO?
Or do we have options in between?
Yeah, I wonder if anyone has anything to say on that side.
Okay.
Hi, Alex.
So from my point of view, I believe that when you work for a DAO, the good thing is like you work for an organization with the same vision, goals, and lifestyle.
So it's like, that's, that's not the common thing when you work for a big corporation, so you are like more enthusiastic for it.
So this is like a good advantage when you work for a DAO, I don't know the rest, but for me, that is my vision.
So that's a big difference.
Yeah, I see what you mean.
Evan, how do you feel?
Is it, is it in your, in your eyes, having seen so many different companies and different DAOs and the way that different things are run, do you think it will always be a better alternative?
Or are there downsides to working for DAOs?
Yeah, I think it's, it's definitely up to the person, right?
I do think that I'm not like a, a maximalist on anything myself.
I do think that there are, there is a place for centralized organizations in the world.
And I do think that some people, probably most people would be better off working at a company with a hierarchy and with like a structure around, because if, if they are just, you know, working at a company for like a paycheck and they don't necessarily care about the company's vision and that sort of thing.
And they just want to kind of work, but then not to make that their kind of encompassing life or anything like that, or they just want that kind of structure of, of nine to five, like, these are my working hours, these aren't my working hours kind of thing.
And then it's, it's better off that they don't work in like a more non-hierarchal, less organized sort of organization because they'll kind of just fall through the gaps or they won't know when to work.
And they maybe won't get paid a full-time salary because they'll get paid for like the work they contribute to.
But yeah, there's, there's, there's definitely the pros and cons of each kind of thing, in my opinion.
Yeah, sorry, does that answer the question or can I elaborate a bit more?
It does answer the question, but please elaborate.
I don't know where to elaborate from, but yeah, like within, within a DAO, I think it's more like a DAO needs to have like a strong ethos and a strong community and the people within that organization really need to be maybe not experts, but they do need to like believe in the vision of the ultimate vision of what they're building and what they're going towards.
Like if you look at the early stages of, of Bitcoin, all the people within that were quasi like hobbyists and anarchic capitalists and libertarians and cyberpunks and all those kinds of things.
But they all had that like vision for a decentralized currency, whether it be them like actually believing it would work in the real world or they liked it as a thought experiment.
So they wanted to capitalize on and grow it to what it is now, I guess.
But not everyone kind of has that ultimate overarching vision of, of the company they're building towards.
Maybe the DAO model will work more within smaller startups.
And then those smaller firms get bigger, they will retain the DAO model.
And the people who are interested in like that kind of startup mentality of, you know, work, make the work life balance kind of mixing in between you're going to conferences and events all the time.
You're kind of promoting your DAO, your startup, your company to everyone that you speak to.
But I feel like people who work at something like GE or a monolithic multinational corporation who are just kind of, you know, phoning it in or they just want to make money or they just want to do X, Y, Z and they don't believe in like an ultimate kind of vision for organizations, then they wouldn't necessarily be interested in the model.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you, Evan.
That was, yeah, a really great contribution.
So, yeah, I really hear your point as well, how there's definitely people out there who maybe they're just not, they're just not really interested in being a part of the, I don't know what you want to call it, the ultimate vision of the company.
And, you know, they kind of just want to get to work and clock in and clock out and do their job.
And there's, there's no less value in what that person does compared to what a person who goes to work and really is driving the vision of the company or the startup or the DAO or whatever you want to call it forwards.
So, yeah, I think there's, it sounds like there's, you know, we need to be able to facilitate everybody.
Yeah, yeah, and that might change in the future as DAOs grow and we might see them become more, like if they become large enough, you do need those kind of individuals who are pursuing the ultimate vision of what the kind of organization is.
But that might come in the future where people are kind of just clocking in, doing tasks on D-Work, getting their governance tokens and a bit of fiat.
And then if they want to, you know, sell those governance tokens because they see the money go up so high, they're actually participating in the ultimate governance of the organization.
That could be something that we see in the next five years or so.
Ah, good point.
Yeah, I didn't think of it that way.
Has anyone got anything they want to add, especially on to what Evan has said?
I also agree a lot with what he said.
I don't think that 100% DAOs are the best option or the current corporate structure is the best option.
Maybe something in the middle of it can be better, but I know that both of them are not for everyone.
I've seen so many people who got burned out in the DAO systems because it's very dynamic.
Web3 changes a lot, very fastly.
And in a DAO, there isn't a CEO or a main manager who is telling you what to do, who updates you all the time.
You sometimes have to catch up with everything by yourself and it moves very fast.
And if you're not able to do that, if you can't manage your own agenda, then it might get difficult and you might get burned out with all the flexible hours because it's almost like nonstop.
People can send you DMs on Telegram over the weekend at night.
But if you know that you can reply to them in the morning, the next day when you're available and that it's OK, that you don't feel that pressure, then it becomes more effective and efficient.
And also, I've seen some corporate structures who are trying to apply the remote working culture into their systems.
However, they forget that while doing that micromanaging that also harms the employees a lot.
Because if you give people the flexibility to work remotely and then ping them, DM them every hour asking what they did, then that's not really giving them the freedom and flexibility to work freely and be creative.
So I think that's one of the main points the current corporate structures are missing while trying to implement this new innovative model of working.
But I've seen all of this as experiments and both ends have good sides, positive sides and negative sides.
But those are definitely exciting from my end.
Yeah, it doesn't give an awful lot of trust or freedom into working remotely, does it?
If you're constantly being checked up on every hour, kind of defeats the purpose sometimes.
I do remember actually working in a corporate company before.
And the idea of working from home was a huge privilege that only very senior members of the company were allowed to have.
And even then, it wasn't all the time because it would upset the rest of the team.
And it wasn't really until COVID that it became a lot more acceptable to work from home.
And now lots of people in the corporate companies are still working remotely because the benefits of working remotely have outweighed the benefits of bringing everybody in the office.
And for a lot of them and for a lot of the friends I have that are in these companies, it's a very difficult argument to make about working remotely.
Because, you know, they have been working productively and contributing to the company and productivity hasn't dipped or any of the fears that they might have had before.
And, you know, it's hard to say, you know, no, you have to come into the office and you have to, you know, spend the money on the petrol and, you know, do the, it's not, you know, it's good for the environment and things like that.
So, being able to facilitate remote working, I think, is definitely something that's happening more across corporate companies, which is great.
But, yeah, like we say, it's not for everybody.
I don't know if anyone wants to jump in.
Or, go on, Ma.
Well, it's, we are all in a centralized culture.
So, people is like, we are a little bit asleep.
We are not getting used to, to contribute in a way that in a doubt has to be.
So, that's the, that's the thing.
So, we, we need to, to awake and contribute more.
And that was, are there for us, for that.
Hmm, yeah.
And, and I, I'm just thinking about what Cam said at the beginning about Web3, always, always being on, you know, and like what Elson says about, you know, that structure that you have where you're, maybe you're in an office and your computer is, you know, active when you're in work.
But then when you leave work, you go home and then you have that, that time away.
But with, with Web3 and working for a DAO, you, like you say, you have your Telegram and you have your other messaging platforms that are kind of kicking off all the time.
And it's a bit more difficult to create that distance, isn't it?
Totally, yeah.
Cool.
Okay.
Does anyone else want to say anything about anything that we've just said?
So, I don't know if you're desperate to jump in with something or maybe, um, I'll move on to another question.
Oh, I, I wanted to clarify.
Um, so I, working at my company, I don't feel like I always work at my company.
It's such a nice work balance.
I, I log off at the end of the day and that's that.
On the weekend, I don't work at all for, um, my job.
Um, but because I'm also a Coindesk podcast host and then I'm in Twitter spaces and I'm a sophisticated degen, I'm usually in the Web3 space a lot.
Um, but with my company, um, we don't, we do have, uh, a lot of time off.
Um, they're actually encouraged time off.
If we have, if, you know, if we have a doctor's appointment, we have a lot of sick time, for example.
Um, so it's, it's a really great place to work.
Um, especially because they also allow us to take off like the holiday, for example.
Like we're off, like, I think the last week of December, last couple weeks of December.
And then we have off sites in person where, for example, I'm going, my whole, my company is sending us, all of us.
Like there's like 270 people.
Um, they're sending all of us to Portugal and they're paying for a five-star hotel.
And so we still get that in-person kind of experience once a year.
Um, and then we see each other at crypto festivals.
Um, so there's a lot of upsides to working in Web3 also.
Um, my company does not encourage like, oh, work on the weekends, work late at night.
Um, sometimes I'll, it's just within my workflow that I like to organize my projects at nighttime because my baby's sleeping.
Um, so it's nice that I can like take off, sorry, the baby.
I can take off a couple hours during the day and then work at nighttime when he's not like, like this.
Oh, yeah.
And I think that, that flexibility is, is definitely a benefit to a lot of people, isn't it?
Um, giving you the, the time to be able to do these things.
Um, and I think maybe, maybe I phrased it wrong then.
Maybe it's just Web3 that doesn't switch off.
Um, just because you work for a DAO doesn't mean that, uh, the DAO doesn't switch off.
Um, or you can't switch off, uh, so, uh, yeah.
I think it's a lot to do with like, you know, um, as Kev was saying, that she's like a, a D-gen as well.
So like in Web3, I feel like you, you kind of blur the line between work and what you're interested in in a way.
Because if you weren't interested in Web3 or in DAOs, you, and you've worked at one or you worked in the industry and you didn't kind of check Twitter on the weekend or, you know, read articles about latest trends and that sort of thing.
You'd fall behind fairly quickly. So like, that's what kind of what, uh, what I was getting at with like people who aren't really interested in being in their job the whole time may not be like well suited for it in a way, because I feel like Web3 is almost, it's everyone's hobby, but it's also their career path in a way.
So you have to kind of be listening to these kinds of things, listening to podcasts all the time, staying on top of the news, following Twitter, looking through Twitter, which doesn't really feel like work.
But for some people, they're just like, oh, I don't want to, I don't want to follow Sushi Swap's latest drama and read about a horse right now.
But, um, yeah, it makes it fun as well, because there's so much more interesting things going on in this industry compared to other ones, especially with in DAOs.
Cool.
Yes, exactly, Evan. Like, literally, I think there was like, I take off weekends mostly.
And when I come back on Monday, there's like all these tweets about something.
I'm like, what happened?
And so you kind of feel like you have to be on top of everything and going to spaces.
So much stuff happens, right?
There's like, um, I know recently, like I was sharing that Paris has a physical NFT space.
A polygon is just everywhere.
A lot of people are finding out about Starbucks NFT.
There's so many different things.
Like, a lot of Web 2 companies are adopting Web 3 practices.
And everybody, like, I came back and I heard about Reddit doing, onboarding millions of people into the space.
And I had to ask one of my speakers on the space.
I was like, what happened?
Like, tell me everything about it.
So it really moves like 100 miles a minute.
Yeah, definitely.
And also, I actually have a question for you as well.
But like, since you're working on a DAO, do you feel that when you kind of sign off for the weekend and the DAO Discord is still going or something like that, you have troubles kind of catching up with like their latest updates within the organization?
Or do you guys have like a way that everyone could stay updated without having to go through lots of different messages?
Or do you have like a weekly stand-up where everything kind of collaborates and talks about what's going on or when people finish projects and that sort of thing?
Was that one for me or for Ken's?
For Ken's, or whoever wants to respond, I guess.
But yeah, more so for Ken's.
Oh, I don't work at a DAO.
I work at a Web 3, a blockchain infrastructure company.
But it's, I mean, I've been a part of a DAO before, but it was a lot.
Like what you're saying, like you have to really be down for the cause.
It was an advocacy DAO, and I really wanted to be a part of it, but it was, it was a lot.
So, but I'll pass it to someone who is at a DAO.
I would actually like to understand too, because there's no central leadership, how do you organize?
I'm curious about if, same echo, echo Evan, like do you have stand-ups?
Do you have weekly meetings?
Do you meet on Zoom?
I work for a DAO, and yes, we have lots of things.
Sometimes we have daily things, sometimes we have weekly things.
And it never stops, yes.
But also you're not expected to reply within the day, like spend your whole weekend working.
If someone wants to work over the weekend and share stuff with you, that's cool.
Because it's his or her own time.
But then you can get back to that person on Monday or Tuesday or whenever you want to finish that work.
But this doesn't mean that we're totally like 100% free.
We also establish deadlines.
We, for example, say we're going to deliver this by Friday.
We're going to write down the brief on Notion so that everyone will be able to see it and add their comments.
And then we will follow up with each other during the sync, daily syncs or weekly syncs.
So it's actually very organized.
It has a lot of freedom.
And it's busy, for sure.
But with the right structure, it also kind of gets similar to any Web3 culture, I think.
Yeah, I can echo that, actually, from Common Ground's side.
It sounds very similar.
Yeah, so we're a functioning DAO as well.
And we tend to have the stand-ups.
Well, the developer team, they have a stand-up every day to catch up on the development because they need that touchpoint.
But we have our stand-ups usually on Mondays and Fridays.
And that sort of sets everyone, sets the team up for the week so that they know what we're starting and what we're catching up on.
And then we have our AMA as well on Fridays, which includes the whole team.
And we can give a stand-up from everybody.
And, yeah, that kind of connects us.
But we try and leave the middle of the week as more focused time.
And, you know, we've got people in the DAO that are all in different time zones as well.
So there isn't so much pressure for everybody to be online all the time at the same time.
There's no kind of – we don't put in any, like, structure like that.
And so you have to be online from this time to this time.
But sometimes when we have quite a lot of meetings throughout the week, it's like everyone is online at the same time.
So it depends how many meetings, really, you have.
So, yeah, it sounds very similar to what Elson says.
Evan, I don't know if I cut you off then.
Do you want to jump in?
Oh, no, no, you didn't cut me off at all.
No, but I was wondering, like, at scale, I guess, when DAOs are reaching 1,000, 10,000 employees,
and a majority of them aren't kind of like the core team or are more freelancing kind of things,
there should be some sort of, like, I guess, implementations.
I don't know, it's one of the things I've been looking for for a while in DAOs tooling
is something that can effectively kind of aggregate all the information that DAO is talking about
or the community is talking about and kind of make a report, like a weekly report,
so that people can kind of get caught up with everything that's finished,
everything that's completed, but, like, in an easy, easy, digestible way.
So looking through many, many different messages.
Yeah, I'd love to see it on a large-scale sense.
That would be really interesting, yeah.
And obviously, like, with Common Ground, we've identified the problem
with the split in communication from different things.
So whether you're joining a DAO and you've just joined
or if you are just catching up from the weekend,
if your communication is split onto lots of different platforms,
then that can make it really difficult to catch up.
And so, yeah, like you say, having a tool that brings everything into one place
and, yeah, some kind of, like, reporting as well.
I'd love to see that on a large scale, for sure.
Cool.
Does anyone have anything else they want to add on to that?
Well, I joined about a few months ago.
It's a large one.
And for me, they are in Discord.
And for me, it's just like a mess to follow all what is happening there.
I don't know if it's because of the tool, because of Discord,
or because they don't have the right structure.
But you sometimes lose the meaningful topics.
And honestly, it's, like, quite heavy to follow.
And as you said, sometimes the communication is on Twitter,
sometimes it's on Discord.
So it's, like, quite a mess to follow the DAO.
So I don't know if the tool landscape still needs to improve
as Discord is in Web2.
Well, that's the thing.
So I believe that, for example, with Common Ground,
everything is in one place and it's easier.
But that's what I found.
And we didn't even pay her to say that.
Yes.
So, yeah, I think for sure it's, yeah.
I mean, there's probably an argument that we can say
for more corporate structures as well is that, you know,
they're probably, their organization and their communication
is probably a little bit better than your average DAO
where we're still waiting for the right tooling to be put into place
so everybody can be up to speed at the right times
and things like that.
So, yeah, it's worth thinking about for sure.
I do have a question which I want to ask you guys.
I didn't prepare you for it, though, so no one's, like,
everyone had a rough idea of what I was going to ask before.
But this one is a little bit ad hoc.
And then at the end, we'll see if anyone from the audience
has questions.
But I just want to ask, seeing as our speakers are coming
from all sorts of different working structures,
and we've all got very different lifestyles
and all different, you know, setups in our lives,
can I ask each of you how you manage your work-life balance,
whether you think you do it well,
or if it's something that you're not so aware of,
or is it something that you try to do a lot?
And if it's something you are trying to do,
what do you do that achieves that?
I think I'm going to go to Cam's first.
Yeah, that's a great question.
Usually I have child care.
But I wake up really, really early, usually,
like around 5 to 7 a.m.
And my husband and I have sort of a cadence.
He's a stay-at-home dad, so it helps a lot.
And in the mornings, usually, like, my calendar is color-coded.
Absolutely.
And I use Google Calendar.
And I mark things in red or orange if they're super important.
Sorry, my dog, my baby.
Let me just walk to a different room with my baby, obviously.
And on the calendar, I time block focus time
so that I can get my actual job done
for my UX research job at Blockdaemon.
And I have all my meetings on there.
I have a central calendar with absolutely everything,
Coindesk stuff, podcast host or guest stuff
where I have to do research for the guest.
I mark time for absolutely everything I have to do.
I mark an eating time.
I have walk time in my calendar
because sometimes we go for morning walks.
Oh, that dog's followed me in here.
Sorry, let me close them in here.
Guys, you guys are so loud.
And then with my dogs, too,
I have their grooming schedule on my calendar.
I have all doctor's appointments for my baby on my calendar.
Everything is in a centralized place and color-coded.
So I know what I need to do
where I can easily see my blocks of time
where I have availability to join a space, for example.
I always know what's going on
in the next like two months of my life.
I think I've always been like that, though,
where I like to know what my plans are.
Even with my friends,
we have a group chat with my personal friends.
And we're like, okay, let's all meet on Saturday at this time.
I put that in my calendar also.
I even have a thinking time in my calendar,
meditation time, where I have time to think,
even if it's only five to ten minutes.
But I think what's really important,
and a lot of product leaders might echo the same thing,
but you have to have time to think and really reflect.
And then it's also built into my calendar with my team
that we have retrospectives.
And then we manage our time and our projects
in a project management software called Jira.
And so it's like a really cool Kanban board style software
where you can see what's going on,
mark different priorities as high, low.
And so I can pretty much estimate
how much effort it takes me to complete work,
whether it's researching a guest for a podcast
or getting ready for a user test with my company.
I kind of know.
So it really takes understanding
how much time do you need to do something
and how much time in your day are you ready to be focused?
Sometimes I have days where I can only work like six hours,
sometimes two, and then sometimes I can work like 12 hours in a row.
So really it's just listening to your body as well
and managing your day and being able to see it,
like visualize it.
And then on the side, the last thing I do
is I keep a to-do list.
Yay, no baby.
I keep a to-do list where I check things off like,
oh, I need to buy more baby food
or I need to purchase this book.
And then I listen to audio books.
So I make sure I have time for everything that I love,
whether I'm like driving somewhere
or to like my lash appointment with my lash artist.
On the drive, I'll listen to an audio book.
I'll meditate, not meditate with my eyes closed,
but like I'll reflect and meditate.
So I always make time for mental health as well.
Oh my gosh, that's very impressive.
I feel like you should be running workshops, Cam,
if you're not already,
just showing people how to color code their life.
And make sure they're squeezing in everything they love,
as well as taking care of a baby
and working for several different corporations.
So I'm very impressed.
Okay, does anyone want to follow that?
I'm mildly intimidated.
Elsin?
Sure.
I have a much different approach.
I'm not that organized,
but I wish I could be.
So when I first graduated and started working full time,
I remember that time when I came to the realization that,
oh, like really,
am I going to work 70%, 80% of my life?
Is that how it's going to be?
Like, I really wanted to find a solution to that
because I love my life.
I love spending time with my friends,
with my boyfriend and doing social stuff.
So then I decided to position work
as something fun in my life
rather than separating it as work.
So from that day on,
I started to tell myself,
okay, this is the time where I create,
where I produce,
where I give something back to the world
with the work that I'm doing
instead of classifying it as work and life,
as like separating it.
That really helped me a lot.
And that also made me work in a much funner sense.
Like I started enjoying work more.
I started seeing as a fun activity,
except of course, crisis points,
but that also happens in social life as well sometimes.
And yeah, that helped me a lot.
And when it comes to calendars,
of course, I have my meetings in there.
It helps me to see when I'm free.
And when I'm free,
I just ask myself what I want to do,
if I want to do playlists
or meet my friends,
go to dinner,
however I feel like,
just in that moment,
like what pops into my mind.
And I just do that.
But right now,
with all the multiple tasks that I'm doing,
I'm trying to shut down the computer
at least for a day,
for the whole 24 hours
and not book any screen,
that's also very helpful for me.
Yeah.
That's it.
That sounds very good as well.
Yeah.
I can totally feel the
needing to close the computer for a day.
We had a few moments
with Common Ground
where there were just a couple of things
I didn't quite get
the chance to finish in the week.
And then so I would
take time on the weekend
to do them.
And it would only be,
say,
like three hours
on Saturday
and on Sunday
or something,
just to push out
something that we needed,
like a newsletter
or just something that
needed a bit more focus time.
And yeah,
but then I could really feel
the difference
when I came back to work
on the Monday.
So yeah,
I think the need
for having that time
to really close the laptop
and yeah,
like Cam said,
have that time to reflect
and see how you feel
and what that thinking process
comes into
after,
when you've given yourself
that little break.
Evan,
I'm curious,
tell us.
Yeah,
it's kind of hard
to talk after
Cam's amazing
special conversation.
Yeah,
I think that my
kind of like
work-life balance
is pretty good,
to be honest.
My girlfriend works
in investment banking.
So compared to her,
it's a breeze.
But essentially,
yeah,
like,
I try to keep up to date
with all the marketing
and everything going with that.
I think the worst part
of my work-life balance
is just talking to
my friends,
my flatmates,
about the latest innovations
in DAOs and Web3.
I think they're all
quite tired of it now.
But yeah,
I think I just have
a fairly good morning schedule
where I try to center myself,
I guess,
by waking up fairly early
and reading for 30 minutes,
drinking water
and taking supplements
and all that sort of stuff
and going for like
an hour-long walk
or something like that.
But no,
I don't really
think about it too much,
to be honest,
because I feel like,
as I was talking about before,
when you're kind of interested
in the subject
or the job
that you do have,
all of the work
doesn't really feel like
work in a way
because you're just kind of
looking into things
you're interested in.
Or especially with my job
where it's essentially
just researching about DAOs
and advising teams
on best practices
of DAOs
and helping them
set up their frameworks
and their governments
and all that sort of stuff,
which is fairly fun
in my opinion,
especially when you think
about it like some sort
of computer game
or something like that.
It makes it a lot easier.
So, yeah,
it's not too big
of a subject matter
issue for me.
Cool.
Yeah,
I can see what you mean.
It's like,
yeah,
I think you sound
quite in tune
to knowing
when, you know,
you need to take
that break as well.
Or like you say,
if the work
that you're doing
is fun,
then it doesn't feel like,
you know,
you need to switch off
from it for too long.
You know,
you can go home
and still talk
to your flatmates
and stuff about DAOs
and, yeah,
and it doesn't feel like work.
So I think that is
one of the good things
about working for a DAO
sometimes is that you,
like we said before,
you're usually so engaged
with that vision
that you're excited about it
and you put in extra time
and extra work,
but it doesn't tend
to feel like that so much
because, you know,
you're really excited
about the end result.
There's also just
the general, you know,
vibe of Web3
is fairly, like,
humorous at times.
So even if you're
in DAO
and you enjoy
hanging out with the community
and chatting on the Discord
and that sort of stuff,
like you may be coming up
with ideas,
but you're also kind of
venturing around
with the people
they're working with.
Yeah, for sure.
Mar,
how's your work-life balance?
Tell us.
Well, I get up very early
as well,
at 5 a.m.
And I try to have
always a fixed routine.
Well, as I have
traditional work,
I try to take time
before going to work
and afterwards.
So very sadly,
I don't have
a central calendar.
It would be great,
but I've got
my traditional work
calendar
and then I've got
my private calendar
as well.
And that's it.
To have a very,
to try to have
a very healthy life
in the rest.
Very good.
That sounds good.
Yeah.
I think I can just
contribute a little bit
from,
so I definitely had
a sort of
work-life balance
when I was working
in a corporate structure,
but then
I then went to
working freelance
as well.
And so the only thing
I would mention
that maybe
we haven't touched on yet
is the importance
of like moving
your body
as well.
So I've had to
incorporate,
I mean,
when I worked freelance,
I used to teach yoga
as well.
So I incorporate
yoga into my morning routine
because sometimes
when we're,
you know,
whether you're working
for a company
where you're just
contributing your hours
and maybe you're not,
you know,
engaged with the overall vision
like we mentioned earlier
or maybe you're working
for a company
or a DAO
and you're working
really long hours
because,
you know,
you're really excited about it
and you've got loads of stuff
to get done
and you want to get it done.
You can end up
being sat down
for quite a long time.
I don't know
if everyone else
has the same thing
but yeah,
so a big part
of my work-life balance
ended up being
moving your body
a lot more.
and I think
what everyone else
has already said
about intuitively
listening to
what your body needs
and understanding
when you need a break.
So for me,
I create a structure
but if I'm feeling
like that structure
isn't working for me
so much that day
then I give myself
the freedom
to move it around
which is why
working remotely
is for me
a better option
but yeah,
that was really interesting
to hear guys.
Yeah,
okay,
we've got like
about five or six minutes left.
I want to open up the floor
to anyone in the audience.
Any questions
anyone wants to ask,
you can pop your hand up
and request to speak.
yeah,
because we've got
some really great speakers
and yeah,
this is your chance
to ask them
anything you like.
I'll give it a few moments
so there might be
a little bit of silence
because it can be
a little bit slow
with Twitter sometimes.
if you don't mind,
I wanted to talk
a little bit
about movement too.
Just recently,
I started going
to the gym.
Literally,
I don't know
what to do
when I get there.
I'm super lucky
that my husband
is like a personal trainer
basically.
He's not a trained
personal trainer
but he knows
about the body
because he studied
nutrition
and so I think
it's so important
to make time
at least like
30 to 60 minutes
per day
to get outside.
Evan had talked
about going for a walk.
Even if you just
go for a walk,
it's nice.
Even if you take
intentional breaths,
that's nice.
Just breathing
in and out
in through the nose
and out through the mouth
and just being grateful
for everything
that you have
in your life right now,
everything that's
going for you.
There's a lot of ways
we can invite joy
and ease into our life
to manage everything
that goes on
in our lives.
But yeah,
so we go to the gym
at night
because obviously
the mornings
and my day
is usually packed
but it's super nice
to just make time
for that
especially because
it's a natural
endorphin
increaser
that's a word
increases your endorphins
and makes you happy
and reduces stress.
So super nice.
I'm also a yoga teacher
but I don't teach yoga anymore
so I am a huge believer
in yoga
so I'm so happy
you get a chance
to do that.
Yeah, for sure.
I actually have
a similar situation
because my boyfriend
is like an ex-bodybuilder
and we go to the gym
in the evenings as well
and I am the same.
I have absolutely
no idea what I'm doing
and I also don't have
the drive
to take myself
there on my own
so the fact
that he has that drive
to do that
and then I just tag along
and do as I'm told
is the best
because then it means
I get that workout
but I don't have to put
too much thought behind it.
Yes,
literally exactly the same,
exactly the same.
I never want to go.
He's like,
okay, we're going.
Yeah,
but it really does help
with your productivity
I find
because you like
how you get
with yoga
and meditation
you have that
meditative
like structure
when you're at the gym
as well
because, you know,
you're doing something repetitive
and it frees up your mind
from, you know,
all of the other things
that you're having
to think about all the time
so it definitely helps
but I definitely find
that my mornings
are more focused
for my brain.
My brain is better
in the morning
so, yeah,
going in the evening
it makes more sense.
I would love to hear
from some of the women
on here.
I got some DMs
from some women
on here.
I'm not going to call you out
but I would love to,
if you guys go to the bottom
left of the screen
on your phone
you can request to speak.
We'd love to hear from you
even if you don't have
a question.
I would love to hear
what you're doing
in the Web3 space.
Agreed,
agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
I'm not seeing
anything come through.
I always invite people
to speak
when I don't see
anybody requesting
I'm like,
get up here,
you,
you,
you,
you.
We've got Sylvia.
Fantastic.
It's just connecting.
Sylvia.
Yeah,
go on.
Unmute yourself
and you can chat to us.
You might be on mute,
Sylvia.
Yes.
Hello.
Can you hear me?
Yes,
that's perfect.
Yeah,
I will be very quick.
I know we have
only a few minutes left
so just wanted to say
great insights
from all the speakers
so thank you very much.
I'm obviously contributor
to the creation
of Common Ground
so I'm an active contributor
to the platform
and in general
I can just confirm
whatever you
speakers said before
about the work-life balance
and the importance
of moving your body
and sport.
I remember
when I ran
the New York Marathon
during the,
I mean,
the preparation
took a while,
took almost one year
and I also wrote
an article
about the importance
of sport
for progressing
in your work
and in your profession
and I realised
that actually
I was performing
much,
much better
when I regularly
trained
so I can just
really support
whatever you said
before
about the importance
of sport
for your life balance,
you know,
life-work balance
so 100% agree
and I would love
to become
a yoga teacher
as well
but I'm not
in that section
yet.
Yeah,
we need a
Web3 yoga teachers
community.
Does that
already exist?
Possibly,
yes,
yes,
yes,
yes.
Nice.
Okay.
Amazing.
Thank you,
everyone.
So if,
yeah,
I just want to say
thank you,
Sylvia,
that was really nice
to hear your voice
and have your contribution
also very brave as well.
Likewise,
good to hear from you.
Okay,
so we've reached
the top of the hour,
just want to say
thank you so much,
everybody.
This has been
a really great discussion,
I really enjoyed
everyone's contributions.
Yeah,
wonderful.
Okay,
right,
we'll sign off now
and if you have any
questions,
you can always contact us,
especially if you want
to hear more about
the Common Ground platform,
then send us a DM
and,
you know,
we'll get things sorted
and we can all meet
on Common Ground.
Thank you so much
for all your time today
and we'll talk soon.
Okay,
bye,
everyone.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
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Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
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Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
