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tokenization and the future of crypto w/ @hedera
Recorded: July 17, 2025 Duration: 1:10:48Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion on tokenization, industry leaders from Dovu and Hedera explored groundbreaking partnerships, significant fundraising milestones, and emerging trends in the tokenization of real-world assets, highlighting the transformative potential of blockchain technology in various sectors.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. all right what's going on everybody welcome to wolf happy thursday it's good to see everyone
here really excited to chat about all things going on in tokenization land talk about hedera
a little bit and really just kick the mic around the pan a little bit amongst some
really amazing people in the crypto space.
It really is an awesome time to be alive.
It is definitely a,
I definitely consider myself blessed to be able to share the stage with some
legends up in the space.
If you guys could help me out,
if you guys haven't already retweet the space for me or cold tweet the space,
tag a friend,
let people know that we started the space, bottom right corner,
the little purple pill down there,
gets the word out there.
It really does help us out a ton.
And if you enjoy these spaces
as much as we like putting them on,
it does help us out.
So please do retweet the space or quote tweet
and we'll kick this space off today.
So we're chatting about all things going on in tokenization.
I see we got Vinay up here.
We got Boz,
Bread. I think we have Ray joining us here. We got Boz, Bread.
I think we have Ray joining us soon.
We've got Dovu up here as well.
And so, yeah, man, I know Dovu's got some really cool stuff cooking in the tokenization land, and they're doing it over with Hedera.
So I kind of wanted to let them introduce kind of what's going on, and we'll sort of use that as a sort of breaking point into the kind of broader conversation here around tokenization, how it fits in the crypto economy, how it fits in Hedera as well.
I really want to kind of dive into that and learn more about that.
And so that's kind of the goal here with this conversation.
So I'm really stoked about it.
Yeah, man, let's just dive in.
I'll throw it over to who is behind the Dovo account today.
Yeah, hi, it's Irvon, Irvon Watkins.
I'm the CEO and co-founder of Dovu.
So I'm representing the team today.
Hopefully I'll do a decent job
or I'll get my ass handed to me
when I get back to the office.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
We know this all too well.
That's how it goes on Spaces.
That's great to have you, man.
It's great to have you.
Quick, what we'll do real quick around the
Around the panel here just to make sure everyone's mic's are working
Boz how's it going man it's good to have you
Great to be here
Thanks for having me back on
Absolutely man absolutely
Vinay absolutely stoked to have you here as well
How's it going
Hey no bad at all
Yeah man absolutely It's good to hear
your voice mr red we got bread in the house man it's never a bad day when you got bread in the
house how's it going yeah gm gm gang uh yeah stoked to be here man appreciate you uh appreciate
you putting together this uh this band of misfits for today's conversation i think it should be
pretty good yeah man absolutely absolutely so anyways yeah man let's uh i'll throw it over to um to Dovu to sort of introduce what they've been, you know, have been cooking up lately.
And we'll kind of use that to break in the conversation here around tokenization.
So I'll kind of turn it over to you.
Hey, thanks.
Yeah, let me introduce sort of Dovu to people who don't know who we are and what we're about.
As you were saying earlier, we're built on Hedera.
Dovu has been around for a little while now, 2018.
Actually, we did an ICO back on Ethereum during the heady days of ICOs.
And at that time, we had a slightly different business plan,
which was to work with our first investor, which was actually Jaguar Land Rover, the car company, in sort of building systems that would sort of tokenize behavior between autonomous vehicles.
It sounds crazy. It sounds in the future. And back then, it was so far in the future that we really needed to pivot fast or we'd die.
in the future that we really needed to pivot fast or uh or we'd die so the um uh it was fun and what
we built was interesting but then what we sort of you know discovered really that there is a
problem a much more important problem that needed to be that needed to be fixed and one that we were
more passionate about um so you know the premise of it everything we've always believed that it's
everything's going to be tokenized.
It's just a matter of time.
So if you build on that premise, you know, and keep to that sort of vision, then you can stay in this game for a long time and build something of real value.
What we decided was of real value is to try to sort of put in place a system for ecological credits.
How to build trust into something that was just not trusted um how does uh you know when i talk about ecological credits i'm looking at carbon credits um i'm looking at a whole range of other type of uh of credits that sort of benefit the world um benefit communities. And it's sort of, you know, and
the bit that was missing really was trust. Nope, you know, and I'm not even going to get into,
you know, is climate change real or is climate change not real? Because you can imagine
being a crypto company and a climate company, you know, we've had some interesting conversations.
Our job's never to convince people that crypto is the way forward, and our job's never to convince people that the climate
is changing. You know, you work that out for yourself. But what was missing was the trust
system. So how do you know that that tree has been planted? How do you know that that tree hasn't
been sold, you know, 50 million times? And when you take a look at the infrastructure around these type of credits,
and we're talking sort of billions of dollars of trades,
so this isn't a small market.
When you look at the infrastructure, one, it isn't digital,
and two, it's so fragmented between different parties
who are extracting money from the sort of process
that it's just ripe for a decentralized
ledger technology. So we moved into that area and started to work on how we could build a next
generation platform to create a trust operating system, you know, within this space. And every
element of it needed to be worked on. worked on um so yeah that's a little intro
i mean just to sort of talk about our little journey a little bit it's it's taken years for
us to get to a point where a couple of months ago we signed a 1.1 billion dollar contract um
to be all to put 1.1 billion dollars of credits on our platform, on Hedera.
And that's real testament to the quality of our team
and I think the quality to our mission.
And it's the first of many projects that are going to be coming on board
to Dovu.
So, you know, it's, it's all about building,
it's all about staying there. And now we're getting validation. And the business is growing
very healthily. I love it. I love it. And I appreciate you making a, giving us a bit of a
breakdown there of the journey and sort of, you know, giving us a bit of a foundation here to
kind of bounce off this conversation. And definitely, you know, anybody on the panel,
at any point, if you guys want to jump in throw in a comment question thought
or concern you know definitely feel free to throw up a hand and we'll definitely jump over to you
otherwise um you know i've got some you know questions thoughts um some some uh some hot
takes on the internet you know about tokenization and so i'm really excited to kind of pick everyone's
brain here um on this industry.
And then, you know, zoom in a bit on Hedera as well
and see, you know, what kind of opportunities there are
in Hedera and why it might be cool to build on Hedera
for why maybe people aren't building there yet.
And so kind of, that was sort of the direction I was headed.
So kind of the thing I was thinking about
as you were speaking and before the space was like,
what kind of barriers are we seeing?
Like we're in a market now where the administration is relatively down with, you know, crypto
in general, compared to every other administration by far by a landslide.
And but it seems like maybe it's not exactly top priority, you know, but we're in a place
where regulation is just in a totally different place.
And so I am curious on, you on, from the panel we have here,
on what kind of barriers you guys are seeing
in the appetite for on-chain infrastructure
and the on-chain conversation.
What kind of barriers we're seeing?
If we're starting to see the regulation ease up,
we're starting to see more pro-crypto policies passed,
what are some of those barriers
you guys are still starting to see in the industry?
I see Boz already has a hand.
So we'll jump over to Boz.
As usual, you're not going to like my answer on this, or most people in the space are not going
to like my answer on this, which is I think a lot of the barriers are largely self-imposed.
I was talking earlier today with a trade finance group about funding a client of mine
who are in the agricultural trade finance space.
They are keen as mustard to get involved.
Everyone is keen to get involved.
And that's because the founder and leadership team
of that particular business are very mature
about how they've developed the technology, etc.
And they're
kind of being they are trying to build deliberately trying to build in line with what um institutions and and the regulator are looking to see but too often but then yesterday i was on the phone with
somebody who's trying to work with a company that has tried to skirt regulation and get around it
and be cute with the regulator
that is not going to work they are not idiots i mean they are but they are not complete idiots
and they definitely know when something is south of proper uh when when they see it and so um i
think that a big big barrier in the way of of not just us getting on the right side of regulation,
but getting institutional adoption to be more ubiquitous across institutions is,
please, can we stop trying to play, you know, hide hide the illegality, hide the cocktail
sausage with these guys, because they're just they've been doing this for a long, long time.
They're going to catch you or they're going to get a bad smell off of it because of having to winkle out of you the fact that there is some sort of regulatory grey area in what you're attempting to do.
So, yeah, I think that the phone call is coming from inside the house in terms of what is stopping us from getting regulatory clarity and more widespread institutional adoption.
Oh, I like it. I like the take. I feel inclined to throw it over to Vinay and see some of his thoughts.
And definitely Vinay and anyone on the panel, if you have any thoughts on anything David mentioned as well about their company, definitely feel free to throw those comments in as well. But Vinay, definitely want to hear some of your thoughts
on what Basel's saying as well. Yeah. So, I mean, broadly speaking,
it was more or less impossible to do anything in any kind of interesting way anywhere in the world
until the Americans decided that they were going to burn the financial regulators to the ground
under the Trump administration and just kick the doors wide open. And that is an extreme simplification of the situation. But if you look
at the kind of enormous trials and travails trying to get tokens issued in the UK, that has been a
nightmare for everybody that tried it. You know, if you take it out through Switzerland, you know,
years to get licensed, MICA is 150 pages of legislation or more.
These systems are extremely complex.
They're heavyweight.
They're hard to use.
They feel completely different from people just banging out meme coins on pump fun in 20 minutes.
And most of that is waiting for the coffee maker.
So I kind of feel like we're in a position where crypto naturally has torn into completely lawless groups and also
completely sclerotic groups that are not really innovating at all i would argue that mica is you
know a very slowing down kind of regulatory framework and then the americans come along
and you know they've had years probably eight years of delays finally they're kind of ready
to get down to work and what i'm hoping for that you'll see a healthy-looking issuance culture
grew up in America, where you get a nice blend of Silicon Valley,
West Coast ideology and East Coast expertise.
And what you'll get is a new set of mechanisms for issuing financial instruments.
And then the rest of the world can copy that model and catch up.
But where we are right now, I think that is absolutely the case that,
you know, you're either too slow or you're outside of the law.
And it's very, very hard to find this blended middle point where it all really just kind of works.
I'm hearing good noises about Dubai.
But yeah, I think that this is sort of, you know, yes, you've got a lot of wildcatting going on,
but also the regulators are really, really not helping most places.
Appreciate the take there, Vinay.
And saw Bread, his hand shot up, so definitely want to go to Bread and then we'll hit Dovu.
Yeah, man.
I mean, pretty much to piggyback on what Baz and Vinay said is that like, you know, we, we were, we were sold this crypto dream, right. You know, borderless global payments. And like, even some of these
financial institutions are marketing and advertising it to their, you know, their clients as
borderless, you know, and there's no oversight. We're decentralized, but like, there's things I
can't do in the U S that I can do in Europe. And there's things in Dubai that I can't do in either,
you know? And so it's kind of like, I think all of this legislation and all these regulators realistically need to block out some fucking time and sit down together and figure out a system of
some sort that's going to work globally. I think that one of the biggest hurdles,
especially that we've been facing lately is, yeah, it's legal and compliance around, you know, not only crypto, but now we're talking crypto gambling too, you know?
And so it's kind of, there's a lot of geofencing that has to happen.
There's a lot of essentially handcuffs that are put on this promise of being truly free and decentralized.
And I think until we can get the proper regulatory bodies to communicate with each other other we're going to continue to kind of spin tires on that side of the fence
well when we just at the un you know license blockchain firms uh and tax the internet that
should fix all of it and so it'll only take a year or two to get that done right that's a joke
just horrifying people for fun i i i i love the fact that every time I come on a Spaces,
I end up quoting some piece of pop culture.
But it's kind of reminding me of Rick and Morty,
where Rick goes, you guys hated the government so much,
you made a big government.
And that's kind of what we're talking about doing, right?
It's like, we hate decentralization.
We hate centralization so much that we've decided to go for an ultra centralization where we create, to Vinay's point, like a United Nations or an International Criminal Court of Human Rights.
But for finances. But to argue against myself in one sentence, I mean, maybe we need to do that.
You know, it has to be very broad brushstrokes, right?
Like, you can't use any kind of currency or token
or whatever to sell child slaves over the dark web,
or heroin.
Well, actually, that depends on where
you stand on drug legalization.
But, you know.
Yeah, I was going to say, like, even there,
think of all the medical, you know, medical export.
Yeah. You know, it's very hard. I mean, yeah, exactly. I was going to say, even there, think of all the medical export.
It's very hard.
Let me throw something out there, just in terms of an alternate way this can get fixed.
Digitization of legislation.
If you take a couple of hundred thousand pages of financial regulation from 25 countries,
throw it at a big enough AI system and bash it with a hammer until the truth comes out, we may discover that you wind up with the ability to digitally map regulatory
and legislative frameworks relatively cheaply and relatively quickly so that we can identify
exactly where there is compatibility between different jurisdictions and their ways.
And if you've got a business process, we ought to be able to wind up with an AI
where you go to the AI,
describe the business process,
and it tells you what jurisdictions
you can do which bits of it in.
So, you know, this problem right now
seems super bad
because there's just so much complexity.
One approach to reducing the complexity
is standardization,
but the other approach is automation.
So I do wonder whether we might discover
that the salvation of this entire thing
is machines that read the law and then help you fit your business model to the existing
legislative regulatory frameworks maybe um i mean just from my side you know from from
dovo i think what we're what i'm hearing is sort of financial regulation what i'm hearing is
is sort of financial regulation.
What I'm hearing is, you know, crypto being used, you know,
purely in a sort of financial regulatory way.
You know, what I just talked about earlier was, you know,
it's taken us six years to get to a point where we're tokenizing
over a billion dollars' worth of carbon credits.
And that's a real financial sort of tokenization.
That's real credits turning into real dollars,
where 600 million of that plus will end up in the hands of farmers
in the USA as a result of this transaction.
And we're seeing more and more of that.
What we're seeing from a sort of broadened the discussion around tokenization and crypto
away from just the financial aspects of it, Google Finance in that respect.
And I think what we're seeing is this separation of institutional use of crypto and stable coins and then over another side the sort
of degen play that still sort of plays out the pump dot fun and and everything else the meme
coins that are that are still happening and there's a sort of there's a separation now in
the communities between the between the sort of institutional side of it and the more fun or degen sort of aspect of it.
But also, like I say, for us, we're seeing the attitude to tokenization change completely
where, you know, we work with the Indian government sort of on policies over there where we're
tokenizing carbon credits for retiring vehicles.
We're working with projects in South America, you know, all over the
place. So these are, as I say, things that were never tokenized previously are now starting to
be tokenized where the sort of decentralized ledger technology has been accepted. The mechanism of
exchange in value globally has been accepted. And I think I'm really excited about that. And I think that's, and these things are happening,
you know, outside of the discussions
that are going on around the,
most of the governmental sort of discussions
around crypto at the moment.
Love that take there.
I was going to say as well,
if anyone else wants to jump in and weigh in on that,
definitely throw up my hands and we'll go to you um otherwise i was gonna ask a quick kind of a
follow-up um dovo to you um sort of just zooming in on why you guys are building on hedera so
that's kind of why i open up that first question kind of just getting your thoughts on um on all
that last week you know the last few minutes we talked about but But why build on Hedera? I'm kind of curious.
It was a no-brainer for us.
So as I mentioned earlier, we launched our ICO on Ethereum in 2017-18
because it was the only game in town at the time.
But when you started to look at moving your business
to become a business that was more environmentally friendly
and it was focused on the on the um
on the sort of carbon credit um an ecological aspect of it then you know hedera was the only
game in town you know um the way that that was set up and there was a study done by i think it
was ucl um in uh in london that sort of proved proved out that the the fact that it was the most
sort of environmental sort of platform to build on so that's one thing the other bit is it's the the
robustness of the platform and also the cost of per transaction um if we're going to onboard
billions of credits into our system globally and this was always a shoot for the moon sort of project,
we needed a platform that could do that.
And also we'd understand the cost of doing that as well.
So it's Hedera having their sort of cost structure based on stablecoin
as opposed to the fluctuating gas fees, which we were all very familiar with,
opposed to the fluctuating gas fees, which we were all very familiar with,
certainly during the ICO phase and the meme coin phase as well.
It's impossible to build a scalable business when you have no idea
what the underlying costs are going to be of transactions, I think.
So there's that, you know, and the support of the team,
the support of Hedera as a team to make this happen
and the sort of commitment from them. Soera as a team to make this happen and the sort
of commitment from them.
So there's a whole range of combinations, really, that sort of made sense.
And now it's making even more sense because what we're doing is building this massive
warehouse of credits, like a big Walmart warehouse of digitized credits that are going
warehouse of digitized credits that are going to be searchable because we get into a point soon
to be searchable.
where these credits are not going to be searched by humans they'll be searched by AI and and you
know we need to have these credits digitized put in a in a standard format with a whole range of
metadata around these credits that sort of highlight when they were created,
who verified them, you know, and a whole range of other trust factors that are sort of built
into that that become searchable, not by humans, but searchable, you know, by AI in the future.
And I think this combination of Dovu, what we're building, and this trust operating system that we're building alongside
it linked into what Hedera are doing from an AI perspective and facilitating that.
I think that's really exciting for the future.
Amazing.
And I'm curious, kind of like pulling out from that question, I'll throw this question
to Brad and then definitely anybody else on the panel who's interested in this question, but kind of zooming out on that, like what are some of
those important things to look for in a blockchain when you're looking to build, especially in
tokenization, when you're choosing a chain, you're choosing an ecosystem, a part of the industry.
I am kind of curious on how you guys think about that as well. And if you have any thoughts on
what Dovu was just kind of speaking on as well,
we'd love to hear some comments on that.
So, Brett, I'll throw the mic over to you.
Yeah, man.
It's funny.
I was having like PTSD flashbacks from my corporate blockchain days back in 2022,
trying to explain just basic transaction costs and infra costs and things like that
about a system that at the time,
you know, still, you know, corporate people were dipping their toes in the water a little
bit and exploring some of these concepts, but they weren't really, they weren't really
implementing them correctly because due to a lack of understanding, you know, we've come
a long way, especially with a lot of L2s and, you know, different kind of L3s now that are happening,
app chains. And realistically, you know, the transaction costs are at a point now to where
it's so, it's, it's, it's null, you know, we handle all, all the gas costs for all of our
users, you know, because we're on base, we built our platform, you know, well, primarily on base, we're going to be on a couple of different chains. But, you
know, the really boils down to essentially user acquisition costs across each network,
if that makes sense, because ultimately, at the end of the day, we're running into a spot
now where I think one of the major concerns coming up is going to be almost an over automation of these entire systems. You know, we're seeing a
lot with ACP on base and virtuals for, you know, the agent to agent type commerce transactions and,
and automating a lot of different trading things that used to just be done with like, you know,
bots back, like, you know, throwback to the 2017, 2018 ICO, you know, flash loan bots and things like that that we were playing with. And
it's like that on steroids times a million now, you know, it's gonna be really difficult to
essentially compete against all of the AI that's going to be driving price making markets you know running arbitrage
plays across different LPs on different chains you know I think that realistically what we're
seeing a lot of in the regulatory bodies are this you know stable coins USDC you know um because
it's you know hard peg I think that going forward the more chains that
are going to start kind of integrating these stable coins you know even though i you know
the decentralized maxi in me is like you know like what the hell's the point you know but like the
the realist is it's just digital cash paid to something it doesn't matter how many bots you have. It doesn't matter. There isn't
really any price manipulation
going on or that
could exist due to
just chain activity
in general and manipulation
by all of these automated systems.
So I think that, I guess,
short story long
here,
the biggest hurdles that we're going to face, you know,
across any chain or even a hash graph, you know, is going to be maintaining token price stability
against all the automated systems that are going to be popping up. And I had to leave with a
question for like Dovu, you know, it's kind of like, are you guys specifically putting in
bot prevention measures? Do you have any sort of plans to roll out agent commerce platforms?
You know, how are you guys looking at the future in regards to AI and token price stabilization?
Yeah, I mean, it's a good question.
I think the, you know, one of the biggest challenges, you know, up to now going through this whole process from 2017 is like, you know one of the biggest challenges um you know up to now going through this whole process
from 2017 is like you know what the hell is token price stabilization it's uh there's this
this sort of i understand the words but i don't understand the concept the um and i think the uh
you know and as you rightly say i think it's just going to be sort of amplified, you know, significantly with the use of AI.
I think it's about the utility of the token and how that then gets sort of scaled out.
And I think the and in reality, it's a constant work in progress to sort of see how that figures.
And I don't have an answer for it.
It's something that we're working on.
From Dovu's perspective, we've always had these two sort of elements up to now,
which has been Dovu used for governance and, you know, staking and other sort of mechanisms.
governance and, you know, staking and other sort of mechanisms, the Dovrug token, you know, over 50% of our token is staked, you know, all of the token is distributed to our community. And, and it's, it's, it's, you know, and now what we're doing is leveraging the token and using it within our, within our system to pay for services that our clients require.
So these billion dollars of carbon credits will need to have Dovu
in order for those credits to be minted.
But putting in the systems to ensure sort of internal price stability
whilst also recognizing that the token is in the wild
and owned by our community is, you know, definitely an ongoing challenge.
Love it. And great question there at the end there as well, Brad.
I'll kick it over to Vinay.
Get some thoughts from him, see if he's got any on that take or the previous one.
Just some thoughts from him,
if he's got any on that take or the previous one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm going to go by for a second on this question
of like which chain, chain selection,
all the rest of that kind of stuff.
I mean, my gut feeling on this
is that we now have a vast overproduction of block space.
You know, there's just way more, you know,
chains and altos and capability and speed
and all the rest of that kind of stuff.
Then we've actually got transactions to fill that space.
And unsurprisingly, the cost of transactions is headed for zero in a lot of places.
The one thing I wanted to kind of bookmark there was a story from, believe it or not, Farmville.
So Farmville, you know, at the time was, you know, by far the biggest and the fastest scaling of the games
that had ever been released on Facebook.
It went viral and it stayed viral.
And I had a conversation with one of their tech people one time
who said, you know, the reason that it worked
is because we were using cloud compute.
I can't remember whether they were on Amazon or whether they were on Google.
I think they were on Amazon.
And he was saying that, you know, what usually happens in viral games
is you finally got something to work.
It went viral.
It would, you know, 10x or 50x or 100x a number of users,
then you would hit the limit on your server capacity, the whole thing would fall over and then the viral wave would collapse,
and then people forgot your name and that killed game after game after game after game.
And what kept Farmville going was that they had this massively scalable back end,
so that when they finally hit the sweet spot and they got viral spread, they were just continuously phoning Google and getting
Google to throw more servers at the problem. And several times they maxed out the ability of Google
to get more servers added. I think it was Amazon. They just, they maxed out the ability to get more
servers added, but it only ever was maxed for a day or two. So as long as they over-provisioned
a little and they planned for it, they could continue their viral growth.
And I've always thought about that
in respect of the blockchain,
because one of the problems
that we've got particularly on Ethereum is,
and I was part of the Ethereum team back in the day,
you know, if you put the pedal to the metal
and something goes massively viral,
what you wind up doing
is auctioning off the block space,
the transactions get expensive, and then the viral wave stops. So I think this notion that if you've got incredibly
cheap and incredibly scalable transactions, the real payoff is that when you finally get a hit,
you don't wind up being cropped by your infrastructure. Hopefully we will get a
chance to see how important that is, because I think it'd be good for the space if we had a
couple of really successful things that actually scaled
and actually also did something useful
you know you need utility you need scale
nice if we saw some deals that had both but
yeah I think the scalability stuff
is extremely key
because you know on Ethereum you can't
just throw more servers at it if you need it
to go faster all it does is become more expensive
and you know I mean that's the chain that I
worked on that's kind of my baby but at the same time it is what it is and it does all it does is become more expensive and you know, I mean, that's the chain that I worked on, that's kind of my baby
but at the same time, it is what it is
and it does what it does
Yeah, I love that, Vinay, and by the way, big shout out
to Ray, who just joined us, who is the
head of research and killing it
over at RWA World and our host
for all the RWA spaces, so
definitely a good day to be alive when he's on the panel talking tokenization.
And Ray, the kind of question and topic posed to the panel was, we are getting some thoughts
from Dovu on why they're building on Hedera.
And I kind of had extrapolated from that and asked, you know, what are the main things
you're looking for when you're trying to decide what chain to be on? What kind of ecosystem environment you're trying to build in in the tokenization
world? And that's sort of the crux of my question. So happy to throw the mic to you. If you need a
few more minutes to kind of get acquainted, can go to bots first as well. But if you have any
thoughts on that, we'd love to throw the mic over to you. Absolutely. Thank you so much,
Caden. And always a pleasure to be here with everyone.
Want to give a huge shout out to Wolf Crypto
for the amazing spaces that they run,
as well as Dovu and Hedera.
Just becoming acquainted with Dovu,
and I got to say, absolutely love what you guys are doing.
I could be defined, at least here in the US,
as what they call a granola person or a crunchy person.
I love nature.
Not so much full hippie per se,
but I'm definitely on that spectrum for sure when it comes to very much caring about the environment.
So I'm very familiar with the tokenization of, or I guess you could say the issuance of, sustainability credits.
And there's been a rocky road with tokenizing these instruments, yet ultimately bringing these things on chain and making them composable and interoperable is a huge boon for that industry. So phenomenal work. And love the line of questioning regarding what we look for
in terms of an ecosystem when we're tokenizing assets. I think Hedera being so institutional
forward is a phenomenal use case, a phenomenal example of how a forward-thinking protocol
approaches the future of blockchain architecture.
I was just having this conversation earlier today with someone in terms of the abstraction
that needs to occur for mass adoption to be facilitated.
And I know Vinay, we've had phenomenal conversations, you and I, regarding kind of the early internet.
You educated me about what they tried to do in France, right?
And put some kind of weird thing on your wall when you first accessed the internet back in the late 80s,
that naturally, that's just a weird thing in history now. But that was very much the way that
you needed to access the internet from the jurisdiction of France at that time. But
ultimately, interoperability and abstraction won out. And for to Vinay's Farmville example,
the chain that delivers the fastest, most robust settlement that is scalable is the chain that is ultimately going to be the one that captures a significant amount of market share.
I think it's winner takes most, not winner takes all.
And what Hedera is doing is this phenomenal stuff.
So I love the ecosystem, love what Dovu is doing.
Really stoked to be here on the panel and stoked for a super bright future of asset tokenization.
Let's get it. Let's get it. Good to hear from you, Ray, as always. We'll take it over to Boz.
I see what kind of thoughts he's got. How's it going, Boz? I saw you dropped off the space for
a second there and I was like, my man is leaving me. It always happens to me on these. I mean, I blame my lack of digital skills.
I probably was the kind of corporate drone
that Brad was kind of banging his head against the wall,
trying to explain what a, I mean, I still
don't know what a ZK proof is, but I guess
trying to explain what a gas fee is with varying degrees of success, I imagine.
And I think that's kind of part of it as well.
Again, I don't really ever end up saying anything new in these spaces, but to go over something
I've said before a little while ago, when I talk to people who are trying to put points across about private debt to institutional counterparties
they always use go back to a couple of key phrases and jokes one of which is don't drop the c-bomb
i don't say the word crypto not the other one um and also i uh things like you've got to understand
you are trying to explain blockchain to someone who graduated from university in 1987.
You're right. Like these guys need to have it packaged for them in a different way.
It's again, anyone who's been on spaces, I'm sure Ray's had me say this before.
It's like trying to calm a frightened horse or something like that you have to be very like you know
simplistic in the language and put the point across uh in a calm way i mean vene for example um actually gave me a tidbit of information which i think i kind of knew i guess on some level but i
used it today in conversation with a lender to explain to them how how stable coins kind of worked, not how they worked, because I mean, that that would be very bold of me to say that I know how they work.
But if I'd like you think about the the level of asset security that you need as a bank, I, you know, you can take a deposit and you can lever it like 20X as an institutional banking entity.
And then consider the fact that stablecoins need to be one-to-one backed with US Treasuries.
There's no bank on the planet who has that requirement of backing for deposits.
So, you know, that was me making the argument, hey, these things are almost over collateralized when you compare them to, you know, quotes, rock solid money, you know, fiat that comes out of banks and out of the Fed, etc.
So, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of ground to cover, but I think we will get there.
Yeah, most definitely.
And by the way, if anyone else on the panel has any final thoughts on that topic, definitely set up a hand.
And also, if you haven't already, please do retweet the space if you're enjoying the conversation.
We try to put on these shows as often as we can.
Really fun, really fun space here with Adair and Dovu
and all the other speakers in the panel,
a bunch of RWA and tokenization experts
and really, really cool people on the panel here.
Be sure to take a second.
And if you haven't already, you know,
be sure to follow all the speakers on the stage
and just double check,
especially if they said something cool
that you like, that you're following them.
Brighten up that timeline and raise that quality. You know what I mean? And yeah, anyways, especially if they said something cool that you like, that you're following them. Brighten up that timeline and raise that quality.
You know what I mean?
And yeah, anyways, retweeting Quozm in Space helps us out a ton.
So yeah, if you want to get the word out there for tokenization, for Hedera and everything that's being built here, definitely do retweet.
Another question that was kind of creeping up here as we were talking was kind of like if tokenization wins or sorry if tokenization succeeds i guess who would you
guys say wins the most here is it like the platforms we're talking about here or the
protocols is it the asset holders like who who wins the most here in a scenario where tokenization
succeeds we'll go to dovu first and then we'll go to race hand I think the only way that tokenization succeeds is if the user wins.
You know, if we as an industry can build something that people actually want and need and value
and, you know, can take advantage, again, of what's coming from an agentic sort of perspective
where, you know, we've been talking about, you know, gas fees being nearly nil,
you know, are AI agents going to reduce costs, you know,
across the board?
How does that translate back to the consumer?
You know, is that going to be the era where tokenization
sort of makes sense across a whole range of industries,
not just finance?
So I think for it to succeed, like I said, it has to be of use.
And if it becomes of use, it then becomes inevitable.
A thousand percent.
Yeah, go ahead, Ray.
A thousand percent. I just wanted ahead, Ray. A thousand percent.
I just wanted to echo what Dovoo said.
I took the words right out of my mouth, man.
That was precisely my answer as well.
The user has to ultimately be the beneficiary of tokenization for it to be something that
becomes useful, right?
If the internet, let's say, was just interesting and kind of fun and just existed for cat memes, well, that'd be pretty cool.
But is it really useful?
Ultimately, it was the velocity of payments, the ease of settlement, transaction and record keeping that allowed the internet to become so ubiquitous.
And ultimately, I think we're seeing a huge demand for that.
Look at what happened with Gameck and AMC, right? There's clearly a massive retail desire for involvement in markets and then some kind of additionality in terms of portfolio construction.
So, you know, the ability to buy things like pre-IPO shares, for example, we're seeing a
blurring of public and private markets. We're seeing demand for additional asset classes,
like sustainability assets that have
never before been accessible to your average person. It's something that's been corporate
driven. The composability that the organization endows to assets means we're entering a whole
new world of finance. So for example, the idea that you can have, as you can probably tell by
my accent, I'm American. I go into a restaurant, sometimes tips are included in the restaurant,
sometimes they're not. If you're a party of six or more, there's ultimately gratuity included.
And most of the time, folks don't even think about that. So consider a world where you can
purchase an asset and the carbon footprint of that asset is offset, thanks to the fact that
you have calculations and tokenized instruments that can be composable and interoperable like that.
Just very fascinating future we're entering into. But I see, Dobie, your hand back up.
I'd love to get your take on this.
Yeah, just following up on that as well.
I mean, you saw yesterday,
or some of us may have seen,
Coinbase Day One sort of event,
the new base wallet
and everything that they're putting out there.
We've really seen tokenization of the social graph,
tokenization of the creator economy,
tokenized rewards based on a whole range of different things that are just other and how creatives present, you know,
what they've created to us.
Or in effect, you know, or in the world of AI, we're all creative.
It's just a case we've just got different tools
to be creative with right now.
So this tokenization, I think,
is just going to absolutely explode.
And I think on the corporate side, you know,
to me, it's the same mentality as
the consumer, you know, but from a corporate perspective, they'll tokenize if it reduces costs,
you know, and it has a benefit on the bottom line, you know, doesn't affect risk or reputation.
And, you know, we're seeing that being explored, obviously, hugely with stable coins and other areas right now.
And as the other speakers were saying, if and when the regulatory environment facilitates this, I think we're just going to see an absolute explosion again of tokenization globally.
Love that there.
Ray didn't know if you wanted to respond or if not, happy to throw the mic over to Vinay
and get some of his thoughts.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the thing that I keep saying to folks is like, look, you know, over the past 20
years, 30 years, we've basically digitized every single piece of information in the world across every
category. There was a wave where we digitized communication, then we digitized music, then we
digitized video. Now we're getting to the part where you get down to digitizing the financial
instruments. And at every step, what's happened is the same process where you just do the entire category over the course of about 10 years, you get a few huge breakout successes, and then the world is kind of irrevocably changed, there's no way back, right?
There's no way back from streaming services, nobody will ever go back to just you have to buy physical things to listen to music.
What I kind of see here in the space as a whole is a huge
confusion of vision. So early on in the days of the internet stuff, there was an idea of the
celestial library. It was the library that had all knowledge in it, and you could access it
immediately, and it would cost practically nothing, and that was the thing.
Similarly with the blockchain, what we really ought to be moving towards is kind of a celestial
marketplace the idea that every single thing in the world that you want has a price tag the
transactions are instant the transactions are basically free the information is 100 reliable
and you get exactly what you pay for whether you're buying a whole part or in some complex
uh you know kind of derivative product um uh fund structure whatever happens you know kind of derivative product fund structure whatever happens you know synthetic asset
however you want to think about it whole part or in combination you ought to get perfect performance
every time so if we think about that notion of a kind of celestial marketplace for assets
everything that we've got right now is basically the equivalent of a record company minting vinyl
you know and if you think of the record companies
trying to defend the vinyl niche,
that's basically what the financial regulators are doing.
They're the custodians of the vinyl ecosystem.
So my hope here is that what we're going to get
is a really systemic total shift
to the point where you wind up with something
that is kind of like Spotify for finance,
only not centralized, not run by a single company and not extractive and abusive.
And that second part of not run by a single company and not extractive and abusive,
you know, the fact that the blockchain folks are focused so much on governance,
project integrity, founder integrity, you know, the ability to do decentralized
governance and things like DAOs, you know, that to me is a fundamental global institutional
learning about the disaster that, for example, streaming brought, where, yeah, you've got access
to everything for listeners, but the musicians have never been more badly paid or less happy.
And I kind of feel like we are at that point
where we can now all sort of see,
yeah, this celestial asset marketplace
is very, very close.
You can see the outline of it forming,
but we're going to be real unhappy
if that just turns out to be like BlackRock buys Amazon
and now you can get assets on Amazon.
So defending the political freedom, defending vision becomes more and more important and
harder and harder and harder the closer we get to shipping that celestial marketplace.
Boom.
Boom.
Mic drop.
Let me throw it over to BC Bread,
see if he's got any thoughts on this,
wants to weigh in on the conversation.
Or if not, happy to jump over to Buzz.
I mean, I don't really have a point to finish on other than I honestly could listen to Vinay
as my kind of bedtime podcast,
learn so much and be lulled
off to sleep by his dulcets
I am
descended
from about a thousand
years of Indian university lecturers
so there's a strong possibility
that we were basically genetically
programmed to do this
kind of stuff
I believe it.
I believe it.
And also, you know, just nice to see on this space, you know,
you've got Dovu, who, sorry, I've forgotten the name of the CEO,
but it sounds like a Welshman to me.
And then myself here in London.
And then Vinay, it's kind of nice to see this British invasion,
very 60s of us on topic with the vinyl conversation.
And it really demonstrates that this is a global movement
and it doesn't necessarily have to be all dominated
by voices from Silicon Valley.
We all have a lot to contribute.
And I think whether it's climate tech or private credit
or helping to build Ethereum or whatever it is,
this is such a multifaceted problem
that we can all add value in our own little areas
in our own special way.
And I think we're getting pretty close
to solving some major systemic issues
and bringing about the downfall of iTunes and the rise of Spotify, albeit in a decentralized fashion.
Yeah, that's a good point. And yeah, it is an announcement. And I won't ask you to spell the name. It's fine.
Protecting the green, green grass of holes.
There you go. But I'll tell you what was interesting for me.
We talked about Silicon Valley and so on.
I mean, the ICO phase was, you know, sort of ridiculed by lots and abused by probably more.
But what it did do, it enabled companies to raise capital from anywhere around the world without having to go to Silicon Valley, without having to travel around to do the usual sort of route of raising capital.
And, you know, that sort of process, you know, I'm hoping that we'll have a new phase of ICOs, one that is more regulated, certainly KYC'd and AML'd.
But we've seen it now, you know, maybe Pump.fun is the first one that sort of sets the wave of new ICOs globally.
But that enables definitely entrepreneurs to sort of look at raising capital in different ways.
And I think it definitely enables entrepreneurs from different parts of the world to sort of jump on the same playing field as counterparts from having to go to Silicon Valley.
Because raising capital in the UK, you know, I've been at this for quite a long time now.
It was a nightmare.
The mentality of venture capitalists in the UK used to be dreadful.
And for most of Europe, it was the same.
And then the breath of fresh air you'd get when you were talking to investors in Silicon Valley was, you know, totally different.
You know, the cryptoization, whatever, that's not the right word, you know, just changed things.
And, you know, and I think actually we're back in the phase where we can stop using Web3, I mean, which I hate, and use crypto.
And I'm very, very, very comfortable using crypto and confident about using it as well.
Love that take there, Dovu.
And I know we only have about
eight or nine minutes left to the show in the space.
And so I did have a last kind of topic here
that was curious to kind of throw the panel here.
Well, actually, hold on.
I think Brad's back up on stage.
Brad, not sure if you heard my question
or if you wanted to weigh in on the topic, but let me throw the mic over back over to you since you're back on stage. Brad, not sure if you heard my question or if you wanted to weigh in on the topic, but let me throw the mic back over to you since you're back on stage.
Yeah, man.
You know, Elon's building apparently the most powerful AI on the planet and can't fix Twitter spaces.
I heard that there's nobody doing spaces.
I forget who told me really recently that there's not a single person working on spaces.
I was like, dude, hire somebody.
Just assign an AI. Build an agent for the shit. not a single person like working on spaces like nobody i was like dude hire somebody just just
assign an ai build an agent for the shit you know i mean like that's we're well past that you know
but uh no sorry about that dude no i mean we can we can keep it moving here and i just uh
this has been a great great space you know um it's always good to see a lot of kind of og builders
and people that have been here in the space since, you know, the good old days, you know, really forward thinking, you know, and really forward thinking about how protocols and platforms are handling this new agentic future and all of this, you know, quote unquote mass onboarding and, you know, global adoption, blah, blah, blah.
mass onboarding and you know global adoption blah blah blah you know it's uh it is it's it's
promising to see that the the real builders and the real ods out here in the space aren't oblivious
and blind to this and just chasing the next you know l4 the next l4 l6 it's gonna happen too i'm
ready for it i can't wait to see what kind of form it takes um i love that take there brad
i appreciate you coming through man yeah i was for my last thing i was going to throw at the
panel here before we before we wrap um now we're kind of coming up on the on the hour but first on
if you guys have any misunderstood or underrated use cases for tokenization that you guys could
see going mainstream soon trends are starting to see play out more i feel like it's a good
mainstream soon trends are starting to see play out more i feel like it's a good place to end
because people are getting more and more into tokenization i remember at a couple previous
crypto conferences going and rwa conference or rwa side events were like the hot thing like i was
like what what's happening i was like everyone's like okay cool this is interesting i thought it
was all the meme coins but i guess all the attentions on these rba projects and a lot of you know institutional money and attention is going
that way and so i know a lot of people are looking to get in on the industry they just don't exactly
know where to start and so so coming from some of the people who are deep in the industry i'm curious
on what kind of thoughts you guys have here so i'll throw it over to ray first and then um we'll
hit prometheus's hand afterwards oh No, I love this question.
So, but my favorite thing to start with is,
and I was talking to my brother about this,
find a thing that you like or find interesting
and it's almost guaranteed that someone is doing something
with interpolating the culture around it,
the incentive flows that are extant in it, et cetera,
and bringing that on chain.
Because the way tokenization works is it democratizes access,
but it also can augment the incentive alignment
components therein.
So good example, and this kind of gets more
into the deep inside than the RWA side,
but WingBits, they're tokenizing flight tracking.
So he's into aviation, so hey, check out WingBits.
Super interesting.
Another good example is classic car culture.
So our friends over at Driven, DRVN, they are tokenizing classic cars.
And as someone who is not a gearhead, never gotten into automotives, I just think it is the coolest thing.
There's a little museum of old time cars around my house when I was a kid.
I remember going there and even though I never went down the rabbit hole,
that gives me the ability to not only diversify into a sector that otherwise would never be able to, but gives a whole group
of people who are just passionate about classic cars the ability to come together in a community
format digitally while also owning the underlying asset. So that's always my take for people who
want to kind of start down the rabbit hole, follow your passion, find what you love. Don't let that
be a limiting factor, of course. You can broaden your horizons,
but it'll help you kind of wrap your head around
what tokenization is doing to transform
how we govern, manage, and invest in assets.
Boom, clear, concise.
I love it.
Prometheus, let's jump over to you
and then we'll hit Dovu's hand after.
Thanks, Kate, for having me up. Great question,
Ray and Hedara team. It is an honor and a pleasure to be on the stage with you guys. I've been
following your project for years now and I'm working with the Bangladeshi government right
now. We're exploring setting up a digital crypto reserve for them.
And my question, I suppose to yourselves,
you guys are pioneering all the frontiers,
artificial intelligence, RWA's, data.
Like how much are you willing to work with states
in terms of implementing a lot of these enterprise solutions?
I know that you guys are working with Dell directly and others.
So I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
So I don't think Hedera's team is there right now.
But I do think the Dovu team can answer that just based off their experience working with yeah
don't boo as well yeah no worries they've worked directly with the dara they've had that experience
so maybe there's something they can speak to to that um and then perhaps another time the team is
there so don't i'll throw the mic to you yeah that's a good question so um i can answer that
a little bit uh from a meeting that we had in delhi with the team from Hedera maybe eight weeks ago
with the Indian government in Delhi with the Hedera providing a commitment to the Indian
government to promote Hedera through universities across India,
as well as projects that we were working with or are working with in India to retire
and recycle old motor vehicles.
There's 18 million motor vehicles there
that are just rotting in India that need to be recycled
and the components need to be reused.
And we created a workflow, worked with a team over there with a methodology and a process to sort of facilitate that.
And that's sort of, you know, rolling out successfully.
So there's a real appetite from, you know, I'm not speaking for Hedera, but I've seen, you know, I've been in meetings with Hedera where they're showing that appetite.
in meetings with it era where they're showing that appetite um in terms of my final thoughts
on the tokenization i mean we've been i think talking a lot about fungible tokens and a lot
about stable coins and other areas i think the huge growth is going to be in non-fungible for
use cases that are around these trust layers you, workflows that are created and assets tracked, you know,
or with non-fungible tokens where you create this audit trail. And that's exactly what,
you know, I'm bound to say that because it's what we're building, but what we're seeing is a huge
appetite now from organizations outside of our core where we started in Carbon and just wanting to use our trust operating system
to create NFTs and processes and audit trails
to track a whole range of different things in industry.
And I think that's definitely happening
and we're going to see an explosion in that over the next few years,
especially, as I say, plugged into the AI things that are happening as well.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is the premier use case of blockchain, right?
Like to be able to show transparency, predictability, accountability in ways that, you know,
supply chains and everything else has never seen before.
So to hear what you guys are doing at Dovu, very special, very interesting.
Looking forward to learning more and reaching out more.
I know there was another question, Kate, so I'm going to throw it back to you, my friend.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
We'll just keep it going around the panel.
It's good to have you up here as well, Prometheus.
But yeah, so just in case you guys are for Goss, kind of the crux of the question was sort of what is misunderstood or underrated? Any kind of use cases in the tokenization world that you guys could see going mainstream soon?
Just coming from people who are deeper in the industry than a lot of the people who are coming in who are brand new. So let me throw the mic over to Vinay.
coming in who are brand new.
So let me throw the mic over to Vinay.
Hey, so, yeah, I mean, you know,
Ethereum, if you asked us in 2015 what it was for,
it was RWAs.
The original kind of vision video
Gavin Woods oversaw,
and, you know, this is the Ethereum,
the world computer video.
It's about a minute and a half,
very gray, very white,
lots of kind of snaking lines across the landscape. but all of the assets in it are real world assets hospitals
forestry power station plane boats you know you name it it's rwas all the way through
uh and then sometime i guess 2017 we begin to get the ico boom and it's like wait a minute
they're not selling equity what are they selling huh weird and you
know that whole thing of like these tokens are not really a thing they're a new class of property or
they're not property at all you know that was a bit of a surprise and then i remember seeing you
know the first of the crypto kitties and it was like what the heck is that and you know it was a
real kind of seven day wonder in the ethereum view of everybody like you could do that
yeah yeah there's a there's you know like the dna is on the chain and then there's a renderer that
takes that dna and shows your picture of the thing it's like oh never thought anybody would do that
and then you know it just kind of goes whoosh from there but in a lot of ways i think that anything
that isn't an rwa when all is said and done and push beats shove it's just test data you know all the nfts
an nft backed by a legal license to use that intellectual property is one thing an nft that's
just an nft is a non-thing entirely and right now we don't generally speaking have legal licenses
for the nfts so you buy an nft of work of art and it's not that clear what you purchased
um similarly for what the tokenization products you get these utility tokens that are strapped to very large stocks of contractual paperwork but if somebody nicked your utility
tokens you might have a hard time demonstrating to a court that any actual property had been
stolen. Hmm illicit transfer commercial rights is that fraud? Oh, that is weird. And, you know, so you're kind of in this position
where I do feel like we've spent an enormous amount of money
with brands that are marketing into existence
kinds of property that don't really exist or hold value.
And that has allowed the industry to build staggering amounts
of actual technical capacity and working systems.
But at that point, if we don't get all of the real-world asset stuff that was ever dreamed of, done, and working systems but at that point if we don't get
all of the real world asset stuff that was ever dreamed of done and accomplished and running
it's going to be very very very hard to sustain the value of these assets and i would include
bitcoin in that um because right now bitcoin is essentially a dollar short and there's a lot of
money to be made short in the dollar but if you are right and the dollar does indeed go to zero
you're not going to be able to spend it on anything because society will collapse so i sort of feel like we're in this
position where there is a huge amount of work to be done getting the real assets on chain um but
you know i think of that as being not a new vision i think of that as being made ethereum different
from bitcoin right in the beginning was was Ethereum was the real world asset approach
and Bitcoin was the cryptocurrency is money is currency approach and that was a very early kind
of psychological division but I think that we've lost a lot of sight of the fundamentals of Ethereum
over the past 10 years and the other chains are still sort of scattered around ideologically
somewhere between those two poles. Man i think it was bosner said earlier i could listen to vene go on about uh the world of crypto
for hours well i mean we've had a thousand years of lecturing you just turned me on and i go i'm
sorry dude well i remember we did that podcast a little while ago, and I certainly was like, man, we could definitely do this like a Joe Rogan-style four-hour event.
It definitely has to happen.
I know Ray was talking about it.
We're going to put something together at some point very soon
on some kind of longer-form content,
either space or stream or something like that.
It's going to be fun.
So anyways, no, I appreciate that take there, Vinay.
I'll throw it over to Boz.
I saw Brad and Ray dropped off, so I think they had to bounce here.
But Boz, I'll throw it over to you, see if you have any final off so i think they had to bounce here but boz i'll see i'll throw it over to you see if you have any final takes and then we'll
hit dovu and um we're up to space but it's been an awesome conversation like honestly i appreciate
everyone coming through all the speakers if you're if you're not already following all the speakers
on the stage definitely take a second to make sure you are and uh if you're enjoying the conversation
be sure to retweet the space as well or quote to the space is recorded so people who missed the
live stream can catch the recording and retweets do help a ton so boss over to you so the question as i recall
it is the overlooked niche use case for tokenization and that's something that people
aren't seeing coming that that will be coming around the corner is that right that is correct
so i mean obviously i'm going to say something in private credit because, you know, I can't
help myself.
But to my knowledge, I don't think anybody has yet tokenized litigation finance.
And I think litigation finance is growing massively.
It's super illiquid.
It's slow, it's only accessible
to massive hedge funds or specialist firms who like that's all that they do, they do
litigation finance.
And, you know, class action claims take years to resolve, they're hard for individual plaintiffs
and small law firms to monetize. And so you could tokenize claim settlements
and set up, you know, program or smart contracts
to enforce waterfall payments.
And then you could create a secondary market for legal claim tokens,
which which allows investors to enter and exit their risk exposure on it.
And so, is the age of the large class action as well.
We've had massive class actions in Europe against both car finance companies
and just Volkswagen in general.
And there's a number of huge class actions coming down the pipe
in the United States as well.
So, I mean, that would be my vote for something that, again,
to my knowledge, and I don't pretend to have an encyclopedic knowledge
of the industry yet, unlike Vinay.
To my knowledge, nobody's done that yet.
And I think that would be a really, really cool thing.
And if anybody does set it up, give me a call,
and I'll go find you 100 million bucks of
debt capital yeah maybe maybe we should talk about that because you know that that notion of lawsuit
funding is one of the things that keeps coming up in the materium ecosystem of like okay so how do
we handle the access to justice aspects of using commercial arbitration for resolving the disputes
for smaller things the obvious answer is some kind of tokenized
insurance product for funding those
litigations.
Drop me an email about that.
That is a thread I would like to pick up.
Amazing. I get to talk to the
professor after class. Awesome.
I must have done good. Let's go.
There's no better way to wrap a space.
That's fantastic.
Interesting to see where that goes. Definitely, definitely.
Let's start over to Dovu for final take, see if they've got any last things they want to impart on us or on the audience for anything they've got coming up or last thoughts they have on the conversation.
No, it's been a great, great spacious thanks very much.
And yeah, there's a fantastic depth of knowledge, you know, with the speakers,
which is, I'll excrete myself from that, but the, from the other speakers. So thanks, thanks very
much. I think the, I mean, my last thought about the sort of tokenization bit is the, you know,
tokenizing the, you know, actually it says in the highlight of our blog, basically, it's like,
you know, tokenizing the why, you know, why was something being done, tokenizing verifiable
behavior between humans and systems, you know, and we're very focused on building that out in
some way. And please, yeah, take a look at our blog post,
you know, have a critique, you know,
tell us where we're getting it wrong,
add some sort of value if you can.
All of that would be great.
It's an organic sort of process,
but it gives an indication of where we're going
and where we think, you know,
crypto and tokenization is headed in this AI world,
where trust is going to be even more required.
Definitely. And for anyone who's interested, pin it by a couple of posts at the very top of the
space. Definitely take a second and check out those posts. One of them on the right is the
blog post
that Dovo's referring to you can definitely give them a follow their co-hosting the space as well
and be sure to follow the Hedera account too while you're at it and catch up and you know keep up to
date with everything going on in the ecosystem I also pinned up at the very top the spaces link
if you guys want to set reminders highly recommend it for our next rwa space we're actually doing in about an hour or so um i think at 2 p.m eastern and it's gonna be a fun conversation it's our regular
weekly space they're a lot of fun and we get into some really cool conversations ray is actually
our main host for that venae usually is in that conversation boz will be there um you know we got
a lot of the crew coming i'm really excited for that conversation so be sure to take a second
set a reminder for that's the top of the space pinned up there if you guys want
to do that and we're going to be doing these today's spaces hopefully a little bit more often
and i'm really excited to break more into the ecosystem and learn a lot more about everything
going on so i appreciate everyone coming through all the people who came in the audience i appreciate
you a ton for listening through i hope you enjoyed it give you questions comments the concerns or uh topics for the next space things like that
definitely drop us a comment or shoot a dm over and um we'll be sure to give it a look and we'll
see you guys all the next space everyone we'll see you in one hour for the rwa conversation
catch you later take care
Host
WOLF Crypto
from
Magic Eden
