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Touching Grass in Web3 🌿 Health & Wellness: The Aggregated Ep. 145
Recorded: Jan. 16, 2026 Duration: 4:36:18Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, experts explored the intersection of regenerative agriculture and health, highlighting trends in consumer demand for nutrient-dense foods and the potential for strategic partnerships to enhance agricultural practices. The conversation emphasized the need for funding and innovative AI solutions to support these initiatives, reflecting a growing movement towards sustainability in food production.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. so
am i gonna ruin it if i talk
Oh, am I going to ruin it if I talk?
That's usually what happens when you talk about it.
It appears so.
Yeah, sorry.
Well, I figured it was time.
We're like five minutes past and, you know.
So are we waiting a few minutes to let some people since x was just out to let some more
people roll in or darren is this the same link that we had uh for the like the last week or so
yeah yeah okay cool so just wanted to make sure because i added it to calendar invitations for
speakers looks like um some people are just getting a, this space is not available issue though.
Uh oh.
Let me check on the computer.
Oh yeah, when I check from my computer I can't choose the space.
That's no good.
Well, what should we do?
We're just going to have a party with paul today yeah so what is the issue i'm sorry i'm trying
to get my shoes and things on so i can get ready and uh get my brain woken up with some vitamin d
and walking x was broken for like the past 10 minutes or so and then it started working so
we were like okay well we just risk it and start space. But it still seems to be bonked for some people.
Okay, so what's going on?
People can't get in?
Yeah, like Jack said that he clicks the link
and it says the space is not available.
God darn it.
I was only able to find it by going to Nerd Girl's profile.
And I saw that her icon was highlighted.
So I'm not sure if it's just missing a link from, uh, whoever's hosting, but it might be there. I
was able to find, I was able to join just fine, but, uh, it didn't readily show up on my, uh,
feed here. Let's Bitcoin. I'm okay. I see you just joined. Tell us how you got in if you can.
I'm inviting you to speak or leave a comment.
Actually, we can't even leave comments.
Comments are broken, I think.
Yeah.
Just let me add one, I think.
X was entirely, like the whole thing was down.
Yeah, that's what it seems that there was a update
I sent in the aggregated chat and now uh like I wasn't working at all nothing loading just about
a minute ago and then I just re-clicked the link that Darren sent and it worked for me.
So I don't, sometimes when this happens, different parts of the world have access,
depending on where you're at.
Um, so that, so it could be like just a few of us that have access and then, you
know, 90% of everyone else.
I see Warren here. He said that he would lock in,
but I know it's probably like five in the morning for him.
So thanks for being here, Warren. Hey Paul, good to talk to you again.
I saw you last year in, uh, yeah, it was last year in San Diego.
Oh, cool. Yeah. Well, uh,
thanks for having me on here.
Okay.
There's like no one joining.
So we have to be glitched.
we could just reset it,
but then we'll lose reminder people and stuff.
It's probably,
I think we have to,
cause it's clearly something's wrong.
Um, molecular says a hundred percent. Um, I think we have to because it's clearly something's wrong. Molecular says 100%.
Here, molecular, I'm going to add you as a speaker.
You may be one of the speakers.
He's not on our list.
But, yeah, maybe we should just start a different space,
and then I can add that to the
calendar invitation.
Yeah, let's do
that and just reach out to all the speakers.
Man, I am bummed because this is
like, I'm so
excited about this space.
I'm so ready to get going.
We've got Aubrey de Grey coming
in the second hour. It's an exciting
one. Yeah, absolutely.
Just want to say something real quick.
Good to get your hand up.
Do you want to say something before we cut it and restart?
Yeah, g'day, guys.
I'm not sure if restarting the space will help with getting it out there.
I was just looking for the link to retweet it because Twitter's been down for about the last hour.
Yeah, I don't think
restarting it will change anything
either, to be honest.
Probably, if we want to do this,
we'd probably just keep going.
Well, the question is, where are people seeing it?
How are you guys getting in? So, Guth,
how did you see the space?
Because the question we have is,
can people even see it?
People are joining, but they look like a lot of people we know well.
So maybe they were just people that were excited for it,
saw our icons individually and then joined.
But yeah, how did you join, Guth?
Did it pop up on feed or anything?
Yeah, as soon as I opened the app again,
because I haven't been on it for the last half an hour or so,
QuickSwap was one of the first things that popped up.
Yeah, I can see it accessible on the normal X spaces bar now.
Okay, maybe we leave it then.
But the thing is, in this scenario, like I was saying,
sometimes many parts of the world still haven't regained access, so that might be why, you know,
most people are not...
Oh, you mean Twitter?
People just aren't even able to get on Twitter
in some parts of the world, possibly.
That's probably what we're doing right now.
Okay.
Let's let it run then a little longer
and see what happens.
Thanks for bearing with us, everyone.
Twitter difficulties. You know, I got to say, I love Elon, but Twitter still, Twitter spaces still
sucks. And I also got to say, I use Grok, you know, every day, all day, but parts of me, mostly because I support Elon.
And so I don't want to use other AIs, but, um, part of me wants to try other AIs because
Grok is also not as bad as Twitter's bases, but Grok can be pretty glitchy too.
Yeah, I'll agree.
Grok is definitely kind of a glitch fest, especially when you're trying to talk to it. But at least to the extent of the content, I actually A-B tested $30 Grok against $300 ChatGPT, researching a company whose internal financials and numbers I already knew.
financials and numbers I already knew.
Like I actually knew the internal.
So obviously we'd have to do deep research and do extrapolation.
And Grok was about 15 to 20% off on the numbers.
And ChatGPT was about 300% off on the numbers.
Oh, wow.
And that was a $300 ChatGPT against a $30 Grok.
And it took about five minutes for ChatGPT to get a response.
And it took about 45 seconds for Grok. And it took about five minutes for ChatGPT to get a response, and it took about 45 seconds for Grok
to respond.
And that was my early on test
where it's like, alright, I'm just going to go Grok, because
A, similar to you, I kind of
am more aligned with the team, you know,
Elon and ideology.
But two, it actually was just a better
product. Now, you know, obviously
the glitches aside, you also want like
good answers. And so far, at least with that one test, it did a great job. Now, you know, obviously the glitches aside, you also want like good answers.
And so far, at least with that one test, it did a great job. That's pretty cool.
But you know that also. Go ahead, Aztec. Yeah, I was just saying,
Grodk actually saved my life. So it gave me accurate enough answers to consult with, uh, with the doctor that was basically killing me at,
at one point with a regiment. And, uh, once I stopped that regiment, my life totally changed. So thank you, Gronk. Well, perfect, perfectly, uh, in line with, uh, you know, the topic of the day,
perfect, perfectly in line with, you know, the topic of the day, you know?
It was, yeah.
And this is like, this is not an exaggeration by Aztec.
I mean, he's not giving, you know, that was just a quick summary,
but, you know, working with him for the last,
I don't know how long we've been working together, Aztec, for six years?
Six years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I saw the changes in him, you know, firsthand from the medical,
what the doctor had put him on, and it was bad.
He was a totally different person.
And once he listened to Grok and changed and got rid of that
and that regimen and changed what he was doing,
he totally came back and was better
than ever. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that Grok was able
to surface some good kind of anti-narrative suggestions because admittedly, all AI is,
is just whatever it's trained on. And 90% of the content out there is what your doctor is already feeding you.
And it's hard to dig through the weeds and actually find the gems.
They're there, and AI can access them,
but you have to dig deep because its surface-level response
is most of the time going to sound a lot like your doc.
So I'm glad it was able to serve some better information.
And hopefully that 10%, 5%, that tiny little nuggets become a much larger percentage of
training data going forward as, you know, people like us start to spread the word.
the word i mean i would say yeah that uh go ahead estic oh no i was just saying definitely uh i i
I mean, I would say, yeah, that, go ahead, Aztec.
do have a bit of a medical background worked in medical field previously and then uh was also
cross-referencing with different uh websites and medical journals so i'm I'm a little bit different than maybe the average person that's using DROT.
And I could ask probing questions to help understand, you know,
specific things that I needed to know.
But the good thing is that it really did outline.
And even with the probing questions it clarified various things
and explained you know like this is nuking uh it's hormone you know essentially and this is what's
causing you to probably feel like etc and so i actually had a really deep conversation and
yeah changed my life no yeah no that's awesome to hear um i guess i'd say congrats uh being able
to turn the corner because uh in the health and wellness space i think turning that corner is one
of the most difficult things for people to feel like there's like hope and chance oh so much man
that's that's so well put and i'm i'm living that right now. I mean, I turned my, I wouldn't
say I turned my health around because I was already somewhat healthy, but I completely changed
everything on my lifestyle recently when I looked at my blood work. But the part that really spoke
to me of what you were saying there was my shoulder. So my shoulder had been bad for like three years and nothing I was doing was fixing it.
And finally, I did a bunch of things.
So it's hard to tell exactly what it was, but I did glow peptide mix, which is BPC-157, TB-500, and GHK-CU,
which is BPC-157, TB-500, and GHK-CU,
as well as changing a bunch of stuff
about my lifestyle and health,
cutting my alcohol down from three to six drinks a week,
down to one drink a week,
quitting Diet Coke almost completely,
quitting fast food almost completely,
eating sardines daily.
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I need to get back to doing that. The sardines. I used to do it daily. Sorry, Paul. So we've got, I just want to make
sure that everybody understands the outline today. So we've got Dr. Aubrey de Grey, who's a leading
longevity researcher coming on the show in about 45 minutes. And I have promised him that he'll
more or less have the
floor for the hour that he'll be here. So, um, whenever you guys finish up, I think we should
probably get through introductions just so that we're not still in that in hour two. Okay. Yeah,
fair enough. Um, Dr. Moo in the, uh, audience. I invited him invited him up. He is on our list of speakers.
Would love to have you join us.
But yeah, the...
I apologize, guys, for the beginning of the show.
If you're just joining, you know, X is down.
It may be down in many regions of the world.
So kind of a slow start here today.
But thank you for everyone that's here, and we can't
wait to share the alpha with you guys.
Yeah, why don't we start with some introductions.
Paul, would you like to introduce yourself?
Yeah, sure.
Hi, everybody.
I'm Paul Poi, CEO and co-founder of Edge, a self-custody trading wallet for crypto.
self-custody trading wallet for crypto. We've been in the space since 2014, originally like a
Bitcoin merchant directory and payments wallet, and then pivoted into a multi-asset trading app
in 2018 or so, 2018, 2019. Ironically, this is a perfect topic for me because I
got fascinated by Bitcoin in 2013, mainly because it was the rug pull of
the establishment. And the establishment had disappointed me primarily in the health and
wellness space on multiple levels with multiple, both, I guess, health issues I had and family had.
And I wasn't really a financial guy and didn't know the financial system terribly well.
But it all came full circle. When I realized, oh gosh, whether it be financial, health and
wellness, medical, pharma, all of it is just large establishment pushing our buttons with
the money that they have. And I got into crypto because this is like the ultimate perfect rug pull
from underneath them and give, I don't call it power back to people.
That sounds too cliche, but enable us to have the truth come out there.
And so happy to be on the space.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for being here, Paul.
I know Joel always says that you are the one who taught him the most about health and how to stay fit and active and feeling good.
He does a good job on his own.
I think I remember hanging out with him in Spain for a Zcash summit, a ZEC summit, like waiting for a cab. He went down in full splits
in front of everybody. I'm like, wow, you know, he's still got the flexibility that I definitely
don't have from my early youth. So I think he's one that as well can inspire a lot of other people
in the health space. So I think the great thing about this is, you know, this industry we have
is very powerful. It's empowering. It's important. And part of that importance is we need to be,
we need to stick around, right? We can't be falling over because when you do that,
you can't do the work necessary to drive the crypto industry forward. So by keeping all of us
in tip top shape and in wellness, then we're able to drive the mission forward.
shape and in wellness, then we're able to drive the mission forward.
I love that.
That's exactly what Rock says to us at Lunar Digital Assets, our full-stack blockchain
venture studio.
In the early days, we would just work like crazy, but especially recently with some of
my issues that I had last year with a doctor that was killing me.
And just us getting older, we realized we have to take care of ourselves.
We're not invincible.
We still work like mad, but we are starting to share information as an organization.
Like this is what I learned or, you you know talk about what supplements we're taking
what type of routines were regiments we're doing so i agree if we if we don't take care of ourselves
because we're not invincible we were not able to push decentralization forward and sound money
and privacy and all these things that the world needs.
Actually, Nerd Girl, just in case, how about you take my spot,
because you're already in the host spot here, and you can lead.
I'll kind of sit back and just comment wherever needed.
And then because there's all these issues, if for whatever reason, if X goes down for you, I'll be here just in case. But
yeah, I'd love for you to take the mic for me. Sure. Yeah, no, I don't want to step on,
I don't want to step on any toes. But thank you. Yeah, I did kind of organize this space,
like I usually do for our longevity
and health spaces it's like probably the thing that i care the most about um yeah so i just
want to try to get through intros in the next 30 you know in the until by the time it's you know
what nine o'clock pacific i guess um so yeah so i guess uh do we want to do Rock and Aztec?
Do you want to intro or are you guys good today?
Like, just tell me what you're doing.
Sure, I'll do a quick 10 seconds.
Okay.
Yeah, Rock Zacharias, CEO of Lunar Digital Assets,
mentor of Tim Draper's Bitcoin Fi Accelerator,
co-founder of QuickSwap, co-founder of LitVM, first time I'm being a
co-founder in six years, and also head of Global Leadership Council for Michael Turpin's
BitAngels.
Cheers, guys.
Cheers, cheers.
Yep.
I'm a CSO at Lunar Digital Assets, co-founder of LitVM for Litecoin Layer 2,
fully endorsed by Charlie Lee and the Litecoin Foundation,
and a city leader in Scottsdale, Arizona through BitAngels. Much love, everyone.
All right. How about Dr. Moo?
You forgot Chief... Wait, did you say Chief Strategy Officer at Lunar Digital Assets?
Yes, I believe that's the first thing I said.
Okay, cool.
All right, so let's do Dr. Mu and then Jack.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
I want to give Aztec some flowers as Chief Strategy Officer.
I want to give Aztec some flowers as chief strategy officer.
I know we said 10 seconds there,
but Aztec was involved in a lot of the early decision-making
on some of the directional stuff of Polygon.
Polygon is not here today.
They usually co-host with us,
but yeah, Aztec presented them with a lot of the research
that led to the original rebrand from
Matic to Polygon, which was, you know, pretty huge at the time. I know it may not sound like a big
thing, but I don't know, they went like 50 or 100x after that. So kudos to Aztec on his...
They also raised 400 mil.
Yeah, then they raised 400 mil, yeah. When we started with them, they had only raised $400,000.
And then years later, still working with them, they raised $400 million.
So that was cool to see the zero to one, one to 10, and then 10 to 100.
Okay, next.
Sorry, who did we say was going to introduce next?
Sorry, I said Dr. Mu and then Jack.
Good to see you, Dr. Mu.
Good morning, everyone.
Happy New Year's.
My name is Dr. Mu Amarou-Williams.
It's the second time that I've been invited to the space.
Thank you again.
I'm a general practitioner in South Africa that has begun his certification in functional medicine and working within the
longevity space and with the first longevity clinic in Cape Town, South Africa. So since
the last time I've been here, things have been moving quite a lot. So it's actually
an absolute pleasure to be back again.
You were like just such a joy to have on last time.
I couldn't imagine doing a health and longevity space without Jim.
So glad that you're here.
Thank you, kindly.
Okay, let's do Jack.
And then we've already done Paul, Aztec, and Rock.
So let's do Jack and then SpecTruth.
Hey, everybody.
Jack here.
I'm Chief Launch Officer at Luna Digital Assets working with
Rock and Aztec, responsible for new product launches. I'm also co-founder of a project
called Stratex, which is a tokenizable DeFi yield strategy marketplace. In terms of health
and longevity, aside from tracking probably a few dozen variables on a daily basis with my llm and more on a weekly basis i
also recently uploaded my entire genetic sequence to my llm with the hope to increasing my chances
of longevity and also titrating my supplementation regime to fit my specific genetic profile and look
out for any things that i should be
particularly concerned about i'm also just out on my afternoon walk so if you hear any traffic noise
or anything like that apologies i love that titrating my supplement supplement schedule and
routine good morning good morning everybody this is james holtz i'm the founder of spectra
we're a dc project that's working to fight ptsd using epigenetics two different agentic ais
and then synthesizing ibogaine we're going to be establishing a clinic in the czech republic
q3 of this year we're going to be beginning our longitudinal
study of Ibogaine and its effects with the precursors, postcursors, everything else,
and Q1 of this year. So we're excited about moving ahead. So I guess on the health side,
we're more into the dealing with trauma victims and PTSD specifically.
Hey, that's super interesting. I don't know, were you here the last time when we talked a lot about
psychedelics and their usefulness for... Yeah, okay, okay, awesome. I thought so. Cool.
Yeah, I take more of the science part of it, and I sort of take the fun out of psychedelics and
make it more scientific-based, where we focus on the five biomarkers that were identified by UC
Davies. We're doing the synthesization of ibogaine that was identified through the Stanford.
And then we're working with people at the Royal College of London to make sure all the data,
and then we do peer-reviewed journals and everything else.
Awesome. Thank you. So I want to make sure, I looking at the screen and I don't see any more speakers. Are there more speakers who I just can't see who have not yet introduced themselves?
X is being weird again, like on another device, nothing's loading.
And then on this device, when I try to go to...
Look for me on a PC now.
Look for you.
Yeah, it's just so X is all over the place.
If other speakers haven't joined, it might be...
It's super glitchy yeah i i was trying to uh go on my
computer to see if we were like uh being listed in the spaces and just to make sure we're not
glitched and yeah i couldn't even get on x and then when i finally could get on x it's not showing
any twitter spaces and when i tried to click like on something, it says, sorry, we can't finish this right now. Come back later. So Twitter's broke. Kind of sucks because, you know, we have a bunch of amazing speakers able to get on. So cheers to people in the audience.
I see Cyrus, MametloCortex, Munchie, Decentralized Dude, Decentral Freight,
Scientist, always good to see you.
Caruso, always good to see you.
Panda is on here with us, but also on his other account.
It looks like
our good friend
what's that?
our good friend Luke
our good friend Luke
here as well
dude I
I try to invite Luke to speak
and he never comes up
thanks for listening
he's usually watching the kids at this time
so I think he
he would just hear like,
in the background.
Cool.
Cool.
Okay, so should we get into the,
oh, sorry, go ahead, Aztec.
No, no, that's exactly what I was going to say.
We should jump into it.
Okay, cool.
Do you mind if I start with a controversial topic
that's currently in the news cycle?
No, we don't like controversy on this show.
Yeah, I know, I know.
No according controversy here.
All right, so I want to ask specifically Dr. Mu to weigh in, and anybody else who has a research background or a practical background, about vaccines.
background or a practical background about, you know, vaccines. The United States recently reduced
their vaccine schedule from something like 70 some vaccines in the first four years to align
more with Denmark and a lot of EU countries where it's 11 or 17. I wanted to ask about, you know,
what your thoughts on that are, what your thoughts on vaccines in general are,
the COVID vaccine versus other, I don't know, potentially more trusted vaccines that weren't
rushed into production. Do you have opinions that you are willing to share with us?
Yes, I do indeed. And yeah, it's a massive controversial topic in the world right now, as well as our
community in South Africa.
I was studying normal Western medicine and becoming a direct control practitioner.
We were taught that it is one of the most important things to prevent illness or prevent
even children contracting illness.
But as the years went by over the last four years,
me exploring into alternative medicine and natural medicine,
meeting more people within the space,
they kind of hate vaccines.
And now there's this big topic of conversation here,
even in South Africa, and I'm assuming it's much bigger in the USA, with regards to the spike proteins that the COVID vaccine has caused.
And quite a lot of my patients come into practice asking, can we please do the spike protein test and how do we decrease that?
How do we decrease that?
So I take a stance of being in the middle where I can still vouch that these vaccines are important for a lot of prevention in illness.
But I'm also on the fence where I believe our body was meant to work through these things ourselves. If one were to get in a sickness, our body has been
built by God to be able to fight these things naturally. So I have a mixed picture where I'm
in the middle. I will back a patient's belief either way, but I would never push my own belief on a patient where
I'm I tried my best to not take the COVID vaccine but it was funny I actually was called out in my
hospital that I worked in they called my name every single week to say when is Dr. Williams
coming for his vaccine when is Dr. Williams coming for his vaccine? When is Dr. Williams coming vaccine?
Up to a point where they actually prevented me from moving further.
And I was forced to take it.
But in the end, I feel it wasn't to a massive detriment to myself.
But now I will still hold middle ground for whichever patient were to come to me.
I know Paul's hand shot up, so I want to go to him because I know he's got something valuable to say or some important question to ask.
Please, Paul, take over.
Yeah, thanks for that opinion, Dr. Mu, and I'm glad that at least someone in the medical profession has some open-mindedness.
I'll take an extreme opposite, not opposite because you're right in the middle, but on
the extreme side, I think vaccines is actually one of the things that I had that got me not
trusting establishment very early on before I even discovered Bitcoin.
And since you're on the fence, I'm going to try to nudge you over to one side of the fence
with the realization that there are zero childhood vaccines that are actually placebo-controlled, that have any placebo-controlled clinical trials.
So we don't actually know the safety balanced with efficacy of any childhood vaccines.
As well, all childhood vaccines manufacturers are completely shielded from any liability.
So while they might work and they might be safe, there is no incentive for them to work
well enough for the risks that are in play.
So for me, it definitely is the right direction that we went from 72 recommended shots down
to 11.
However, the issue I have is that the remaining ones that are not recommended
are still mandated and it's not up to parents' choice. Well, depending on the state you're in,
of course, some do have exemptions, but without going through paperwork and having that awkward
moment with your doctor,
you know, they're effectively mandated for kids to go to school.
And so what does it take?
I really ask, I try not to be the person that's like,
oh, all the vaccines are bad.
We should, you know, end them forever.
You know, although right now I'm feeling that way.
What would it, I asked myself,
what would it take for me to have faith in them and trust them
and actually say, sure, I wouldn't have hesitation to give them to my child.
What it would take is removing the liability shield. That's the number one thing,
right? Note that when the liability shield came around in the 80s, I think it was under Reagan,
the vaccine schedule tripled to quadrupled in size. And as well, full placebo controlled clinical trials. For those in the audience that don't know, every childhood vaccine that is recommended is not placebo-tested.
It's tested with ingredients that are still in the vaccine, just not the ingredient that would give you immunity.
They take that one ingredient out.
They leave almost everything else, including the stuff that actually does hurt and damage people. Wait, wait, wait. You're telling me they're testing with only the
inactive ingredients and not the active ingredients? Correct. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So they're
still testing with the things that could potentially injure you. And they're comparing that
and determining that as the safety profile. It clearly is decent test from an efficacy profile, right?
And then that's what they're claiming.
He look, it's effective, but it's an absolute farce from the viewpoint of a safety profile.
It's like, it's like, you know, randomized control trial on soda and taking out the sugar
and saying, look, soda's safe. Well, no, taking out, it's worse. It's actually like taking out the sugar and saying, look, soda's safe.
Well, no, it's worse.
It's actually like taking out the bubbles, right?
It's like flat soda versus soda, right?
Coke without the bubbles.
All right, well, let's see how safe it is.
So Dr. Mu, given that information, can you genuinely recommend any of the childhood vaccines
knowing that that is a definitive?
First, somebody can challenge me on this, right?
First, do your research to see whether or not I'm telling a lie.
But if that were true, can you genuinely recommend any of the childhood vaccines, any of those 72 shots or even the 11 that remain to this day?
Oh, no, I won't even want to i completely hear you and back you and believe that
your source is most likely true because i feel that that's what pharmaceutical companies have
done for so many years and they've blinded people in the public to not know about this information
and right i agree with you.
I don't necessarily, thankfully, where I've practiced now,
I don't need to initiate vaccines at all, really.
And I do luckily have the capacity to let people know my beliefs,
but also give them the choices as a matter of fact.
But the issue I have in South Africa is because
we are still a third world country a lot of people unlike everyone in the space have access
to a lot of knowledge and education to be able to know all of these things to be to be able to say
no within the government sector here people have not a clue of what you just said
and they just end up saying yes yes yes a normal doctor says i think you should do this this and
that and they say yes yes yes i put full trust in my doctor so it doesn't take more than about two
links it doesn't take more than about two links to give them this information. And they're not, you guys aren't North Korea, right?
You're not Iran.
Like the internet's not blocked.
So my hope is people like you are a champion.
No, from now on, when you say that, you have to say you're not North Korea or UK.
Right.
North Korea, UK, or Iran, right?
Internet's not blocked.
But you are our hope because you are the bridge.
This is what, you know, so I'm so happy you're on the space because you're the bridge between, you know, the kind of, I call it almost like non-medical, but health and wellness research space and the traditional medical space.
And those are the most important people.
Those are the people that I've been following on X, the people that are there in a way, they are the people that are in the battle zone.
in a way they are the people that are in the battle zone, right?
Right.
Because they're surrounded by people that disagree,
but they have the opinions that are very important to get pushed out in the world.
And so while you don't have to, you know, in the space here,
you don't have to be pushing,
what does it take for you to actually push the narrative of,
no, these are not defined as safe.
Not just, it's your choice.
I want to get you further than just, yes, it's up to you. It's your choice. Sure. It as safe. Not just it's your choice. I want to get
you further than just, yes, it's up to you. It's your choice. Sure. It is up to them and it's their
choice. But how do you then say, but I do not recommend them. What does it take for me to get
you to say, I actually do not recommend them because they have not been tested for safety
and there is a financial incentive. There's no financial incentive for them to work and be safe.
I put it that way.
Wait, wait, wait. Are you just talking about all vaccines for children in general?
All childhood vaccines.
Are you recommending that nobody should take any of them?
Nobody should take any of them. There's not a, well, like I said, not a single one of them
has been placebo control trial, right? There's been zero placebo controlled trials on any of the childhood vaccines and all the manufacturers have a liability shield. Fair. And I am not eager to
take the other side of this argument because I have a lot of doubts about all this stuff
like you and many here, but that seems a little extreme. I mean, we probably, maybe we don't have,
you know, double blind, you know, placebo controlled, you know, trials, but we do have
data on it and we can infer things from that data without having to expose a bunch of children.
Well, I guess we're already exposing them. So there's no moral quandary there. But I don't know.
I mean, if we completely got rid of these, I mean, would we not see a bunch of diseases that we've eliminated possibly come back?
Yeah, hang on, hang on.
Jack has had his hand up forever, too.
Jack, jump into the conversation when you can.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure. So just a couple of things.
So just a couple of things.
No need to apologize on the UK stuff.
No need to apologise on the UK stuff.
I don't live in the UK and I'm glad.
I don't live in the UK, and I'm glad.
So I'm living on Freedom Island just across the water here in the Isle of Manwar.
It's completely different.
In terms of the US situation with the 70-odd vaccine for the vaccine schedule
and the liability shield, that's probably insane.
In Europe and a lot of places around the world that that number is closer to 10 which I think
is more reasonable. I think the important thing to realize is there's a cost benefit with all
this stuff and in terms of the and this is the thing that's probably most important when you
you know I have young children and they they follow the However, we've been quite careful about it.
And if there was a recommendation that was on the schedule for a disease that was relatively mild,
if they did contract it and the vaccine side effects were potentially severe,
then we would consider obviously not going ahead with that one.
And I think in the era of personalized medicine that we're walking into here in 2026 people can
use tools even if they're not particularly uh you know cognitively advanced themselves to like dig
into the literature they can use the llm tools to digest this stuff and make a rough approximation
of risk and stuff and then they can they can weigh that
and see if it fits their family's needs um i think given given the way the world is and how
transient populations are and how much people move i think it's hard to say that people shouldn't get
any child of vaccines because you know there's a lot of places in the world where a lot of these quite serious illnesses are still rife and still rampant and because of air travel and everything
else very easy for somebody infected with the disease to travel to another country where that
disease has been eliminated and then potentially infect an unvaccinated or you know non-immune
population so i think that's you know one thing to know
first and then aside from that I think with anything I mean you'll get this as
a bitcoiner I think the most important thing is personal responsibility for you
and your family if you you know if you're gonna inject something into your
child's body you should probably sit down and read the side effects lethal at least and maybe spend an evening with your wife discussing some
studies or discussing cost benefit and maybe select the ones for you that most fit your
like requirements that's probably a good place to start um in terms of the trials i think this is an
interesting conversation so on the liability shield i'm like in terms of the trials i think this is an interesting conversation so
on the liability shield i'm like vehemently against that i think no no medical company
should have an immunity from prosecution it's immoral it's like totally reckless and we shouldn't
do it so that's just just putting out there as a disclaimer and then um but on the other side you understand like the difficulties around doing proper
placebo controlled double-blind trials with this stuff because i mean first of all on the childhood
vaccine schedule you're dealing with kids and so there's lots of variables and legal liabilities
there around like infecting kids with typhus as an example which is you know kind of on the extreme end what you would be doing in those trials so i can understand why some of the manufacturers pushed
for liability shields i don't think they should have been granted and there also needs to be a
conversation had where we say do we accept the data as we have it after millions of potential
vaccinations and we accept that there's a certain risk of condition x or condition y in a population
that's vaccinated or do we say you know instead we need to push for hard science and hard data
and if that results in uh you know death and injury of participants in those trials then that's
a societal harm that we're willing to tolerate for the societal good that will come out the other
side of it i don't really have an opinion on that because it's a very hard moral question but
it's probably something just to throw back out there to the panel
well can i before going to um spec truth here paul um with you saying that we should just get
rid of all of these i mean are you what you, what would happen, do you think?
Do you, because there are lots of things like malaria and other that are prevalent, very prevalent in parts, large parts of the world still today.
So you don't just get, you know, I guess herd immunity is what's kind of coming to mind.
I guess herd immunity is what's kind of coming to mind.
And I would probably, I would guess, and I don't know,
but I would guess that if you queried enough experts on vaccines,
they would probably say vaccines have been major, you know,
life-changing inventions and medical inventions for humanity
and have saved a lot of lives.
And maybe if the, even if they do come with some risks, um, maybe toxicity or other things,
maybe, you know, I don't want to throw words out because I just don't know. And I have not
actually seen the evidence to suggest that they do cause things like autism or et cetera. That's
not been proven anywhere. I don't think.
But anyways, even if there was a risk of some of these things,
the massive amount of lives we save from these is still beneficial.
Are you saying, no, it's not?
Or are you just saying as a matter of principle,
they should be double, you know, they should be,
we should do proper RCTs and we should get rid of the shield? Or are you saying like in
real, in reality, if we got rid of these, the world would be better off?
So I do finally believe we got rid of them, the world would be better off. Where I stand as far
as where I think we should get to is removing any mandates for them, number one. And that way,
the individual situation that someone in the world might be in
could determine whether or not the vaccine is applicable for them. Mainly because if you look
at some of the, let's look at some of the most widely accepted vaccines and actually challenge,
I'm going to put myself in the hardest challenge that you could have, which is, let's say polio
and measles. Those are widely accepted as
like, oh, the de facto, they absolutely eliminated polio, it absolutely eliminated measles. And so
that's what the data will tell you, because you can look at a graph and see, okay, well, the polio
vaccine came out at this time, measles vaccine came out at this time, well, drop in the rate
of polio, drop in the rate of measles. But then, so the data, remember, the experts in the data can
always be contrived and twisted to tell a narrative that is pro or con a certain narrative that you
want to show. So what the data doesn't say, or at least what they're not sharing,
is the fact that measles stopped becoming a deadly disease before the measles vaccine came out. So yes,
there was a high rate of measles before the measles vaccine came out, but how deadly it was
had dropped 5 to 10x before the vaccine came out, as well as the actual rate. So the rate of measles
was already lowering, lowering naturally because measles, um, realized
it came out, we were a much unhealthier country.
You know, the industrial revolution, things were dirty, unclean, unsanitary.
And just by cleaning up our lives, that already made measles less dangerous to all of us.
But then we pushed out this vaccine, which of course the vaccine, I will not question that the vaccine is effective at reducing your ability, your chance
of getting measles.
But the part that is, that we fail to look at is the comparison of, well, what
are the chances of getting a side effect versus the chance of getting a similar
side effect from measles?
And we'd have to then subjectively rate the degree of danger,
right? So if I got measles, okay, well, what's the worst thing that can happen? Well, I can get
a long-term respiratory infection that doesn't go away, or I could die. Okay, well then, okay,
well, what's the side effect possibility and the rate that which I might get that if I, or get some
other similar impact on my health if I took the vaccine for measles.
The weighing of those two has not been done.
And that's because we don't have placebo-controlled trials.
We don't actually know.
All right, let's have a batch of people
who got a saline solution instead of the measles vaccine.
Let's have a batch of people
that didn't get the vaccine at all
and see what their odds of having gotten the measles were.
And if they got it, what would happen to them?
Has anyone seen the Brady Bunch episode
from like the 1960s where they covered the measles?
It was the whole episode about the measles.
And it was a joke.
It was like, oh, kids came home from school.
Great.
I get to go play checkers all day
and eat chicken soup for a week and get to skip school.
It was joked as a disease to catch
so you could play hooky. That's what it was looked at in the fifties and sixties.
Sorry, which disease was this?
This is measles. This is measles. Yeah. It was like the chicken pox,
which we have a vaccine for the chicken pox today, right? That has not been placebo control
trial at all. No placebo control trials for that. I remember when I was a kid, it was the same thing.
It's like, hey, let's go over Billy's house.
He's got chicken pox.
That way I can get it now.
And therefore, I get over it.
And guess what?
There are studies that show that if you get chicken pox early in life as a kid, you're far, far, far more immune to shingles as an adult.
you're far far far more immune to shingles as an adult and the kids that get chicken pox
are like a booster shot for the adults against measles i'm sorry against measles against
shingles later in life but by actually vaccinating all our kids against the chicken pox we're no
longer exposing the adults to that slight exposure of chicken pox that is that booster shot preventing
shingles and so now there's been an increase in cases of shingles this is the ripple effect that the experts that
you're saying hey if you talk to enough vaccine experts you talk to 100 vaccine experts you're
probably going to talk to 100 people that have financial motivation to sell you a vaccine but
you talk to experts this is the data that they do not share and you have to dig i would also say
that there's like a lot of genetic variation
here as well. So just as an example of a piece of info that came out of my feeding my genetic
sequence to my LLM, I found that I had a gene that was associated with partial immunity to malaria.
And so Rock, to your example about, you know, malaria as an example, you know, maybe I'd look
at the risk profile for the malaria vaccine if one exists
differently um because i know i have partial immunity going into it rather than somebody that
you know believes that they're fully exposed to that disease if they were to catch it because the
likelihood of severe complications from illness in my case are reduced and the likelihood of severe
well the likelihood of severe complications from the vaccine are not reduced they're the same so it's interesting right this is like and this is why i'm like a big
opponent of everybody just going into personalized medicine as quickly as possible because you can
then understand the individual risk profiles that are associated with you and your family in a way
that we haven't literally has been impossible and i do want to jump in guys i think it's responsible
to just fact
check one thing so we're not spreading misinformation or anything. It does appear
that some of these have had placebo-controlled, randomized controlled trials. So not all of them,
but there have been some, it appears, according to AI.
So if you chat with AI, you can't say just the word placebo because the medical industry has bastardized the term placebo to include some ingredients.
You need to say a full, pure, stay lean placebo.
Okay.
That's the prompt that you're going to need.
Like I said, they've bastardized all this.
They've hidden all this data and rephrased what things are.
Like they redefined what the definition of a vaccine is and they're redefining what the definition of a placebo is now.
Yeah.
It says the reason they do that apparently is because there's some ethical reasons that they don't.
It does kind of seem questionable. But you get it?
You get it?
Right.
But now you get it.
Right.
So sure.
They can have reasons for it. But my take is they still don't do it.
Right.
And that's, that's the fact check that you're looking for.
Not the ethical reasons, but the fact that they actually don't do a saline placebo.
I feel like we could have a whole episode on this, but we only have five minutes before
Aubrey and, and, uh, and others joined.
So, well, I also, I'm not sure if Dr. Mu was able to respond to the initial questions.
I think we kind of went and passed the mic around.
But Dr. Mu, did you actually respond and say everything you wanted to say as a response?
Yes, fully.
But Paul asked me if I would be swayed,
and I don't think I'll ever be able to push my narrative
or my belief on a patient. And for example, in 2025
in Cape Town, South Africa, we actually had
a measles outbreak. And luckily
no kids died.
But as a matter of fact, I checked even one of my local government things.
Majority of the patients or the kids under five that were hospitalized because of severe
infections were, as a matter of fact, the ones that didn't have vaccines.
the ones that didn't have vaccines.
So luckily, no one died.
So luckily no one died,
but I will always stand strong in the middle
and be able to say in the end,
it's the patient's choice.
But I do believe that this could be non-beneficial
if you were to take a vaccine,
but for something like polio and measles,
I am going to be on the side of saying
I do believe that it is important,
especially in my space and my community where the outbreak last year just showed that the ones that
didn't get vaccines were unfortunately hospitalized, which as a matter of fact, puts a lot of stress on
a poor five-year-old's body and mental health, I must say, in the future. And that's all I'd add.
So that's fair. And what you're referring to is one side of the testing, which is the efficacy,
right? So yes, the measles vaccine would be effective in preventing that child
from having a hospitalization. The part that you're not looking at is, okay, so for all of
the millions of vaccines that are deployed, how many kids are going to the hospital because of that vaccine?
And not just hospitalized, died, developed a severe long-term health condition, possibly autism.
You're not asking that question.
So for those five, right, that right that end up the hospital how many hundreds
or thousands are also ending up in the hospital you don't know that data because the data is
being hidden from you and so i just want to make sure you're asking that question as well and not
looking at the highlights because the media wants to highlight the worst part about not taking a
vaccine they will not highlight the worst part about taking it without a doubt without a doubt
and that's the the power of the media unfortunately
yeah and uh spec truth i see your hand up uh i just wanted to make sure that uh dr mu was able to fully respond because i remember i remember there was something that he was not able to
respond to uh what what's your thoughts on this spectrum i just wanted to point out um i don't
know if you guys can hear me clearly because I know things are breaking up on the speaker.
And I don't know if it's because of having issues.
But I did want to point out that polio basically was done before the vaccine ever came out.
You know, I can't talk too much about measles because that's not my wheelhouse.
But on polio, I definitely know that it vanished before uh the vaccines came out and it just kept
they just kept it because it's just worth billions and billions of dollars there is no downside for
a pharmaceutical company because of the shield there is a reason why they pushed for the covet
well and i'm sure the government is also heavily subsidizing these i i i don't know but my random guess just knowing how things work i am
guessing there's huge subsidies yeah well the wheelhouse is the government pays money for the
the research and then the actual scientists although they're getting funded by it'll go
up and then they get royalties so like anthony fauci made something like what 130 million dollars
off the covid vaccines on just the royalties?
Please tell me you're just giving conspiracy stuff and that is not true.
I'm going to kill myself if that's true.
Look it up.
Right here on his face.
The last I checked, it was $130 million and they said that there was a conflict of interest and he should remove himself.
But the conflict of interest person for the CDC is his wife.
Spectrum, you sound like you read the Fauci book.
Yeah, well, I'm.
Did you happen to?
As a lawyer, I got it.
The one by Kennedy?
Fauci just pissed me off because he shouldn't ever been allowed in that job to begin with because he was doing stuff with China and every other
country under the planet, testing things that should not be allowed. But to Paul, I just wanted
to point this out just because I know minutes are coming down. I wanted to point out that there are
control groups, but what they're doing is that they're doing society control groups. And that is you're finding children of like, say, parents of Christian science, Mormon, Mennonite, Amish.
You find social groups where they historically don't take the vaccines.
And then you can compare those to the children that have vaccines.
So you could do a control group that way.
I don't know if they are, but to me, that would 100% exposure to what I am testing for.
So if I was going to be doing the measles or something like that, I would want to have my control group to be like Amish children versus like leave Lancaster and go over to Philadelphia and then compare and control groups that way.
I mean, I think I'd try to be more creative and do that.
There have been studies specifically with the Amish, and I don't want
to quote specific numbers because I don't have them off the top of my head, and I'm just kind
of walking around the neighborhood right now. And so I do invite people to actually look at
the studies against Amish. Off the top of my head, what I recall is autism is non-existent.
And so many of the issues, the health issues that have hockey sticked with the spike in the vaccine schedule are basically non-existent in the Amish.
So it's not what you'd call perfect scientifically controlled trial.
More anecdotal study, but historical with a very, very targeted control group.
But it is a data point and it's a valid data point.
So I'm glad you brought it up.
Very interesting.
All very interesting data.
Nurgle, how about we, since we've been talking about vaccines for a while, maybe we switch to another topic and as we we wait here for um x to yeah yeah yeah yeah sounds like a
great idea yeah um hopefully aubrey will be joining us soon he did confirm for nine o'clock
pacific which is right now um but yeah x may be down so we'll just give him you know a few minutes
of grace and just move on to the topic. We can pause at any time.
So I really want to ask about cord blood and stem cell banking.
Dr. Moo, do you know very much about this?
There was a time when we had a couple of doctors on.
One of them was a specialist in this, and I tried to ask, but it was too late.
Do you know much about this topic?
Yes and no, not entirely in depth, but I do, as a matter of fact, do exosome therapy in my practice and actually source my
exosomes, which are stem cell messengers derived from Wharton's jelly, so umbilical cords and so
forth. So I have some knowledge within the space with doing this type of therapy for certain
illnesses.
Okay, sounds good.
Yeah, I really wanted to get into specifics about uses for cord blood stem cells and the
cord blood itself.
Do you know anything about that or should we
maybe move on to a different topic? So not in depth enough to maybe tell you all about it,
but I mean, if you have any thoughts with regards to as to what it could potentially treat,
I could give you some insight into that. Yeah, I was just, so I did, I banked
my daughter's stem cell blood, stem cells and blood from her umbilical cord. And I was just
telling someone last night that I've had to have two blood transfusions in my life. And the second
time they did it with her blood and I felt a lot different than after the first time so I guess that you know
kind of gets into the question like kind of also gets into this idea of you know what's it called
I think they you know humorously called it blood boys on um on Silicon Valley the tv show uh but I
know that there are people who do transfusions from young people semi-frequently to experience more youth.
Yeah, I've met a few.
Yeah, I've got a bunch of young blood boys that live in.
It's not a basement.
It's like just kind of downwards under my house.
But no, it's been working great.
No, it's been working great.
I think to kind of explain it, the source using cord blood,
stem cells itself is hemopoietic stem cells.
So they are similar to, you know, the more primitive type stem cells.
So often or not, because of many different things,
let's say we transfuse blood
from an adult, the cord stem cell bloods come at a more, I'd say, cleaner version and a little bit
more primitive, therefore having a higher capacity of proliferation and the ability for your body to use these cleaner stem cells, if you may say,
that are not, let us say, damaged by inflammation and everything else through your life,
definitely can mitigate all of, let us say, any other issues
and actually potentially give a patient a better outcome as they are accepted by our body
a little bit better than, let's say, self, if that makes sense.
It does make sense. Yeah, thank you. Sorry, I just wanted to, I was just heard from Aubrey. He's,
you know, having problems with X, having trouble getting in, but is attempting to get in.
So hopefully we'll have him soon.
Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you completely, but wanted to share that why I was a little bit spacey there.
Yeah, like the same with the exosome therapy that I do now as well.
It's derived also from cord blood, if you may say, Wharton's jelly.
And it's, as a matter of fact, helped quite a few patients from my practice
that have had, let's say, chronic inflammation, chronic pain,
metabolic dysfunction that just somehow cannot be phased by lifestyle interventions.
somehow cannot be phased by lifestyle interventions. The exosomes, which are messenger
cells, have made massive improvements, I'd say, in patients' well-being, especially over a long
period of time, actually allowing their DNA to slowly rebuild and slowly fix all the damage that occurred through their lifetime.
So I've seen massive improvements in patients' well-being and their health,
especially chronic inflammation.
So I do definitely see the potential of this being something potentially,
maybe everyone should have a blood boy maybe in the future or maybe just more evidence
should be put towards it um so that it can be hopefully in the future so did you guys see um
one of the famous people who's done this is brian johnson and people use this against him all the
time like oh you're disgusting you took your son's blood. So his story with that is kind of interesting.
His dad was having cognitive issues and was pretty worried about it. And so Brian said,
hey, why don't I give you some of my, I believe it was plasma. And let's see if it helps you,
or this is like an area of research right now. And then so Brian Johnson's son said, well, hey,
if you're going to give it to grandpa, why don't I give you some and we can make it a whole family thing
and see how it works. So that was kind of interesting. I will say on the Brian Johnson
in general, and I'm curious, maybe weave this in today. I've been thinking about this a lot and
trying to understand, generally we want to use the gold standard, which is randomized controlled trials.
But there's lots of, it was mentioned earlier, there was some other data from the Amish that it's not an RCT, but it's still a data point that's useful.
And so I wonder how you guys think about things like Brian Johnson doing that,
or I'll give you another one. Brian Johnson did 20 days in the sauna. He kept an ice pack on his
testes and on his boys, he calls them, and he kept an ice pack on his head to prevent,
like he was worried about his hair being damaged or follicles. And he did that for 20 days.
Then he had to go on a trip.
So he stopped.
Then he did another 40 days.
During the 40 days, he didn't use the ice packs.
And there was a lot of positive numbers, a lot of negative numbers,
or not a lot of negative numbers, mostly all positive.
His like toxins in his blood, I think it was heavy metals and maybe microplastics,
dropped to undetectable levels in most of them,
and some of them in just barely detectable levels.
And he was having issues getting some of those down.
And then let's see what else.
I think inflammation was down.
There were markers for something Genesis.
His arteries were growing, and there was a bunch of markers showing that his arteries were growing rapidly.
So anyways, my point, and then one negative was when he took the ice pack off of his boys,
his sperm counter fertility numbers dropped really bad.
He started using the ice pack again.
They came right back, so it may be just a temporary thing.
For any of those looking at sauna, I highly recommend.
It's like the most probably healthy thing you could do for yourself in life.
And I'm not exaggerating on that.
But I'm curious what you guys think about these small data points.
Like someone like Brian Johnson, he does a test on himself,
like he did with mushrooms recently.
And there's not a thousand people.
There's not a placebo.
It's not controlled, all this. But it is a data point that we could go, wow, the toxins in his
body all dropped off of a cliff. This is something where, okay, maybe now we relay that into a real
trial. Or maybe you can make your own decisions off of that. I'm personally using this data to
change my behaviors in life partially.
You know, I obviously am looking at other things too,
but what do you guys think about that?
Are these relevant or should we?
Sorry, before we get into that discussion,
I wanted to let people know that Aubrey de Grey,
Dr. Aubrey de Grey is here on his wife's account, Natalie Coles.
He was unable to join from his account, but he made it.
So thank you, Dr. Aubrey.
Can you hear me?
Great.
Yeah, we're having a, just, I think you know,
but yeah, having a lot of issues today.
We normally would have multiples of this
on the amount of viewers and things,
but they're all starting to flow in.
It's just Twitter is totally broken today we have people who can't even find the spaces but uh it seems to be resolving slowly very good so thank you so much for going through
the effort of finding the space and joining us here um really really appreciate you being here
i want to like i think most people who are listening probably know who you are and about your research.
But if you could just give, you know, a little bit of background.
And then I have a question that I've been dying to ask you since the last time we talked on this space.
But then I'm sure everybody else has questions as well.
And, Aubrey, I don't know if you heard my question.
You could either answer that and then do intro or vice versa if you heard it.
If not, no worries.
Yeah, I did not hear it.
I only just got on a minute or so ago.
Yeah, so yeah, briefly.
Yeah, my name is Dr. Robert DeGray.
I have been working on the biology of aging for the past 30 years or so,
and I lead an organization called LEV Foundation.
This is the third nonprofit that I've led over the past 20 years or so.
What I've always been doing in this space is basically research
to figure out new ways to make people stay healthy as they get older.
And this is early stage research, so I don't do any work
in human beings, only in mice. And so our work is focused on developing gene therapies,
cell therapies and such like, which can be combined to get mice and then of course eventually
humans to live a lot longer in a healthy state.
Yeah, why don't you tell me what your question was again, and I'll see if I can answer it.
Yeah, sure.
Sorry, go ahead, Brock, please.
Yeah, so I was asking about, so obviously the gold standard is things like RCTs,
but sometimes we have other data points that are interesting.
For example, I don't know if you saw Brian Johnson's test on saunas, where he went,
did saunas, tested his blood work every few days, and got some pretty crazy results like toxins
dropping and a bunch of other stuff. While this is not a, you know, RCT and is this still usable data?
Do we, how do you look at that? Should we even be considering this as a data point?
Is it something that then parlays into trials later? Or how do you think about these other,
you know, less rigorous data points or types of studies?
you know, less rigorous data points or types of studies?
Yeah, it's definitely not useless.
The problems that have always existed with N of 1 experiments,
you know, where people just try things and see what happens,
is, of course, that because everyone does different things
and is doing different things in the rest of their life it's hard to generalize it's hard to discern
patterns there but there are two things that are really changing that
progressively over the past decade especially one of them is just the
internet the fact that there is so much more communication that exists between people who are either early adopters of this or that new drug or new protocol,
so that people can compare notes a lot more, and in particular that people can educate each other more,
so as to do sensible things like measuring various aspects of their biological age at baseline before they adopt this or that thing, so as to be able to get a proper comparison.
And the second thing that's happening, of course, is AI.
We now have computational tools that can discern patterns in large data sets that people would not be able to discern.
And as time goes on and we have more and more people doing N of 1 things,
that's going to become more and more relevant.
Brian in particular, you know, because he is so high profile,
is very useful here.
He is, you know, a lot of things that he does are, you know, controversial,
and, you know, some things people say he's doing more harm than good,
but I definitely feel that he is a net positive for the movement.
I feel that especially the fact that he is very, very strong on measurement,
you know, that he says that, you know, the more you measure, the better.
I know that if we can get that message across to people,
then we will start learning a lot more from people
who are just finding their own route towards longevity.
Yeah, I notice this goes with something you've been saying
for a long time, which is the science can do it.
We can solve aging. There's lots of things we could do with the science. If we
had the resources, the problem is there's not enough kind of desire, which means that leads
to not enough funding and resources. And so having people like Brian Johnson or Joe Rogan talk about
these things certainly helps with, you know, getting people to actually care
about the space, getting people to actually believe that we can do something about it,
and then getting, you know, either donors or investors to actually put some money in
so that we can accelerate the framework on these things. I mean, when you first started
talking about timelines for this, I think you mentioned this either on a TED Talk or on Joe
Rogan, but you had said, you know, we're maybe 25 years away from solving this.
And then, you know, I think it was 16 years later, you said,
well, we've only gained eight years on that time in 16 years.
So now I think we're like 17 years away.
And I think you said this maybe four or five years ago.
I'm curious how that's updated, but yeah.
Yeah, sure.
So I don't remember exactly when I said which things,
but broadly speaking,
when I started giving timeframe prediction,
I think that was probably around 2004,
I was saying 25 years or so.
Of course, everything,
every time I ever give any prediction of this kind,
it's always probabilistic.
So what I'm saying is
that I think we have a 50% chance of getting to longevity escape velocity by this or that date.
But yes, so I was saying 25 years, 20 odd years ago. The thing is that over the next 10 years
after that, until let's say 2015, I was basically, things were hardly moving
at all. So I was still saying 20 or 25 years in 2015. And now I'm saying like 12 to 15
years, which means that things have basically not slipped at all for the past 10 years.
All the slippage happened in the previous 10 um and that's pretty good news
the reason for it is really money that even though we definitely don't have as much money in the in
the field as we need um we've got a hell of a lot more than we had 10 years ago and um you know the
real problem right now is that that money that we have now is so very unevenly distributed there are
things that are kind of lower hanging fruit and are getting all the attention and they're the
ones that are getting all the money and then there are things that are just as important
but are somehow you know less far along and um more difficult to to um move the needle on
and those things are just being still very neglected financially,
which is definitely slowing things down.
But, you know, that's progressively changing.
Well, I love the way you approach it from before.
And maybe you could tell people, so all people could be up to date here.
And by the way, highly encourage people to donate to this cause. And one of the ways you can donate is through Aubrey's entities.
So maybe can you explain how things have flowed from Sense Foundation
or Sense Research Institute, I think, before?
And it's changed over time.
Can you tell us about that?
Yeah, I probably shouldn't talk too much about Sense Research Foundation
because they have definitely lost their way since they made some management errors, shall we say.
But what was going on there was really, when I was there, was the components, the more difficult components of the Sense plan.
components of the sense plan. So this plan that I came up with 25 years ago is essentially a
divide and conquer approach to bringing aging under medical control in which one develops a
variety of different treatments that repair this or that type of molecular or cellular damage that
the body does to itself throughout life. And of course, with any divide and conquer approach in any field of life one has to
you know first of all develop the components and then put them together
so as I say we were developing the more difficult components at SANS Research Foundation
and at AEV Foundation we're doing stage two. We're putting things together.
The things that we are putting together are, of course,
the things that are relatively easy to develop.
In other words, the things that have actually been developed
to a point where they work reasonably well in mice.
And there are still things that are not at that stage
that still need a lot to be pushed on,
but that's not what we're doing at LEV Foundation.
At LEV, we are putting together the things that already do work
and have been shown by other people, typically,
to be effective in making middle-aged mice live
a fair bit longer than they otherwise would.
And it's working out.
We're getting what we were hoping to get,
which is an additive effect,
when you put more than
one thing together and um relative to what happens when you only use one thing uh but these experiments
are extremely large uh like the next one that we want to do we'll have 2 000 mice um and it's going
to cost like six or seven million dollars and um you know we don't have that. So at the moment, the experiment is just waiting to happen.
Hey, Aubrey, I saw recently,
I saw your most recent presentation from the HEX conference, and I saw you said that it increases the lifespan of the mice
by about 1.5 years.
Is that right?
That's not quite right, no.
So the mice that we use in these experiments are a strain called C57 black 6, which is
the strain that most mouse longevity experiments are done with.
They live on average about two and a half years.
And so the number that you just said, 18 months, is actually the age at which we begin the experiments.
We start when they are already one and a half years old,
so they've got an average of about one year to live.
And the best that one can do at this point,
in terms of extending their life,
is to add about four months to that.
So that's what you can do with calorie calorie restriction for example you can get if you start
at that kind of age if you start much younger then calorie restriction can give you like 12
months of additional life but we're focusing on things that give you that you can do starting in
middle age and so far we have not we have not broken through that four-month glass ceiling,
but we very much hope that we will in due course do so by doing enough damage repair, enough different types of things,
hitting enough pressure points, if you like.
And so the stretch goal that I have articulated is to get 12 months
so that we can take mice that are already one and a half
years old. They would normally live to two and a half on average and we get them out to three and
a half on average. Why do you choose this 18 month starting point? I feel like a lot of the
mice studies on longevity do that instead of starting, you know, when they're infants or
juvenile, whatever you call rat mice. Why do you guys start at 18 months? Is this because
the people who will invest are older people
and you want to show them that there's hope for them?
What's the reason?
Well, that's part of it.
Yeah, I mean, I do actually care about people who are old enough
to pay taxes and so on.
But it's not the only thing.
So what you said is actually not really correct.
The overwhelming majority of lifespan studies are done starting early in life.
And far too few studies are done starting in middle age.
So, yeah, we're very keen to fix that.
I mean, the other reason why we're starting in middle age is because we are doing rejuvenation.
We are trying to turn the clock back rather than slow the clock down.
The reason why most researchers do early onset experiments
is because you can get more impressive results that way
with things like calorie restriction, as I just said,
that slow the clock down.
And, you know, so you get, I mean, people who do these experiments
in academia, they're more interested in getting, you know, high-profile papers in top journals so that their students can get their next job.
You know, people who work for me are not looking for their next job.
So I have different, you know, incentives, if you like.
and get much more impressive results from rejuvenation that will like,
I mean,
if you've got 12 months in,
my starting at 18 months,
then that would be three times what you can get with calorie restriction.
And that would really knock people's socks off.
Wow.
It's,
I noticed what you're doing now,
um, with, uh, Lev Foundation, it's interesting because you're doing combinations of these rejuvenation therapies as opposed to just one single thing, which I guess one of the things I heard you say once before was that, I forget exactly what you're talking about, but that in a lot of ways,
longevity space, there haven't been any single major breakthroughs in my, maybe I'm misquoting,
but that there's been a, that kind of assured you that we're onto the right things, I guess,
and that those things we need to just kind of maybe test more and use lots of small things
additively.
Am I getting that wrong?
That's broadly right.
So let me put it more clearly.
So as I mentioned, color restriction and, you know, color restriction mimetics,
like rapamycin, for example, they have less benefit if you start later.
Not surprising because what they do is they slow aging down they don't actually reverse it whereas rejuvenation by
definition is reversing aging um so the thing about the only difficulty of course is that
rejuvenation damage repair is this multifaceted divide and conquer thing because the body does a lot of different types of damage to itself
over life.
So this means that, yes, you have to do a lot of different things
at the same time if you want to get a significant effect.
And that's what we're trying to develop.
We're trying to identify a suitable portfolio of things to put together
that will tick enough of the boxes, so to speak,
to actually get a big improvement.
But this is the only way we're ever going to get more than, you know,
in mice, four months, in humans, a couple of years.
You know, because essentially the problem with calorie restriction and any any
drugs that try to emulate calorie restriction is that not only does it work less well when you
start late but also it works much less well in long-lived species than it does in short-lived
species and this is something that you know is well understood and it's been known for a long
time and it gets rather aggressively swept under the carpet by people who want to pretend that
they're making good progress but the fact is you know we have made no progress at all in extending
mouse lifespan let alone human lifespan um using um interventions against aging over the past like 50 years since we discovered that
what we could do it with calorie restriction and so once we do make a breakthrough uh you know even
if we got eight months let alone 12 months um in experiments like this that would still be doubling
the effect size that has been possible so far and every expert in the world would immediately know that we were on a completely different plane
than where we are right now.
Doesn't that kind of make people,
you know, give people less hope,
which is kind of goes against what you're saying.
I'm glad you're being honest.
And, you know, this leads to why you don't take any of these,
you don't take any NAD precursors
or rapamycin or metformin yourself because you've, in a lot of these, you don't take any NAD precursors or rapamycin or metformin yourself
because you've, in a lot of interviews, said, I think that it's just we haven't, we don't have
enough proof that they work yet. But it sounds like you think we're on the cusp of some things
that will work. I mean, I know you're friends with David Sinclair for a long time and he does
take, and so I kind of, when I choose what I'm
going to do, I kind of ask, I'll ask AI, you know, what is, if I'm thinking about like, you know,
I take Eneman or Resveratrol and things and I'll ask AI if I'm really thinking about taking
something. Okay. What does, out of all these people, you know, David Sinclair, Aubrey de Grey,
Of all these people, you know, David Sinclair, Aubrey de Grey, Brian Johnson, Dr. Rhonda
Patrick, Dr. Peta Atia, David Huberman, of all of them, how many of them take this and
how many of them recommend against it?
Yeah.
So, I mean, you know, there are lots of ways to go about making such decisions.
I should point out that the reason I don't take things is not quite what you said.
It's really because I'm doing very well already.
You know, I have the good fortune to get very high-end tests of my biological age in various ways.
I've had that for the past 20-odd years.
And I always come out way younger
than i really am so for me it makes sense to be conservative and you know if it ain't broke don't
fix it i'm just one of those repulsively lucky people where i can like you know um eat and drink
what i like and nothing happens and i don't even need to do exercise um but uh that's not that
doesn't mean i'm recommending that to other people. You know, the fundamental thing with the things that are available today
is that they are essentially trying to optimize one's metabolism,
and everyone's metabolism is different.
So the only generic advice that one can really give is pay attention to your body.
You know, see what's working for you.
This is what I was saying earlier about brian
johnson being very strong on measurements and this is this being a really important thing that he is
doing with his big platform with his very high profile platform um is getting people to understand
that if you don't measure things you don't know what you're uh you don't know what state you're in
uh of course there is also a great value in just subjective measurement,
as in, like, what feels good.
But the more you can do that's more objective, the better.
So, yes, coming back to the rest of your question,
the reason I don't do things is one part of this.
But the basis for optimism, for my optimism that we are within striking distance of making really big progress,
is simply that I see what experiments have not been done.
I started using the phrase unknown knowns.
You know, people talk about known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
There are unknown knowns, which means basically taking things that we already know
have some significant benefit in mice and just putting them together i mean it doesn't take any
thinking to do that it just takes money um and so you know i and i think there's a very good chance
that a sufficiently large portfolio of damage repair interventions applied to a bunch of mice all at the same time
will genuinely transcend what we've been able to achieve so far.
We shall see, but that's my impression.
Do you take any supplements? Do you take magnesium D3, any of this stuff,
or are you generally good on all those?
He only takes one supplement.
Sorry, and then I have to ask my question or I'm going to be mad.
Yeah, yeah.
So I do take one supplement, yes.
And this is because I did some measurement of something.
Namely, I actually, you you know got my genome sequenced and it turned out
that i have a genetic variant in a gene called mthfr which predisposes me to having high levels
of homocysteine in my circulation now i had known for many many years that i have high homocysteine
but i hadn't known why and it wasn't really associated with the things that high homocysteine, but I hadn't known why. And it wasn't really associated with the things that pi-hormacysteine often is associated
with, so I wasn't really bothered by it, but I'd rather not have it.
And it turns out that the predisposition that I just mentioned is easily addressed with
a particular type of vitamin B12, methylcobalamin.
And so I now take that,
whereas previously I didn't take anything at all.
Okay, I have to double tap here, Nicole,
so sorry to delay your question.
Angry.
Okay.
Angry face.
Angry face.
Okay, so we had Jack on earlier.
He's one of our executives at Lunar Digital Assist,
and he just turned me on to something that I'm getting ready to do.
And he got his DNA sequence.
So I'm curious how you did your DNA, Dr. Aubrey.
I'm curious how you did it because you probably have a lot more money.
But he found this way where you take 23andMe and then you, I believe it was 23andMe,
then you can ask to download your sequence,
which is just a bunch of millions,
a code of gibberish basically,
but then you can upload that to a site called,
I believe, prometheus.com, I believe it is.
And then they, for $15, give you a report
of all the known, like I guess publicly known
or research shared, or I don't know if it's open source,
I'm still trying to figure it out, but they give you a list of all the genes that they know of,
that you have that could lead to disease and they rank them for you. Then you could take that and
plug it into AI and ask it what you could do about it and tell you more about it. And so now we have
these crazy tools that for like 50 or $60, just a 23andMe test plus $15 promethease report,
you can actually get a bunch of information on your genes.
But yeah, go.
Yeah, so you're exactly right.
So 23andMe, of course, when they started out,
they did not do whole genome sequencing.
They did what was called SNP analysis,
single nucleotide polymorphism analysis
on particular loci in the genome that are known, that were known to
have particular association with this or that aspect of disease or ageing. But that was when,
you know, it cost a respectable amount, like 100k or whatever, to sequence your genome. Now it costs
less than $1,000, so anyone can do it. And, of course, your genome doesn't change over time.
So you only need to do it once.
And then, as you said, one can...
Wait, wait, wait.
Sorry to interrupt, but...
So he's using just data from, like, 23andMe
that he paid, whatever, 50 bucks or something for.
That's not an actual...
Well, you can do that.
But, of course, if you're using only single nucleotide polymorphisms
then you've got to keep you've got to do it more than once because as you mentioned um you know
as time goes on the literature expands uh you've got more and more um findings that this or that
polymorphism is associated with this or that condition and And, you know, if it wasn't known already
to have had that condition,
then it just wouldn't have been in the set of polymorphisms
that were being analyzed,
that your genome was being analyzed for.
The point is that SNP analysis is now essentially pointless
because whole genome sequencing is so available,
so cheap, so cheap.
And there's just no point in not just getting the whole genome.
But then, after that, of course, as you said,
you want to make sure that you're up to date with the literature
on what is associated with what.
And then you can use, as you said,
you can use AI tools to analyze that
and get the information that might previously
have cost a lot of money to get.
Are there any of these tools that you recommend
for people to be able to do this relatively cheaply?
And I'm still a little confused about whether,
you said under a thousand to do your whole genome,
but then the $50, I don't understand the whole single nucleotide versus other.
Maybe if you could just expand a little bit.
It just means you have a tiny fraction of the information.
It's worth getting the whole genome secret.
Do I have any recommendations about which tools to use to analyze it?
Not at all, no.
There are lots and lots of tools, and it's basically an easy thing to do,
you know, for AI to do.
So, you know, I don't have any particular recommendations.
Okay.
And what about, are we able to sequence our epigenetics to see?
Because I know that's a big part of it too, probably.
Right.
So there's a long way to go before epigenome is going to be useful.
Of course, the epigenome does change over time, but exactly how to extract information
from it that will tell you what to do, that's very much at an earlier stage.
So I wouldn't want to really recommend that yet.
It's always exciting when I know, though, that we have long ways to go because it's always exciting when i know though that we have long ways to go because it's already so
interesting right now all the things we can do and to know that we we haven't even gotten to
epigenetics for personal custom medicine is amazing okay so i'm feeling sorry for nicole
all right thank you um all right so i i do have a kind of a compact question um so the last time that we
talked last time that we were on this show we i asked you if i could be 22 again and you said yes
so i have a couple of questions that stem from there and from various presentations of yours
that i've watched or listened to uh you know when you talk about aging i know that you're specifically
or when you're talking about the reversal know that you're specifically, or when
you're talking about the reversal of aging, you're specifically talking about separating damage from
metabolism and or pathology, right? So when you talk about reversing in age, does this apply,
I'm going to ask this question and then another one right after it. Does this apply only to
biological age or will it impact physical appearance as well and then further
um do you think that what impact do you think that age reversal might have on female fertility
all right so um yeah so the way i so so just to kind of clarify parts of your question um
the way i define aging is as a combination of two processes. The
first process is that throughout life, our metabolism, which is the word the biologists
use to just mean the normal operation of the body, our metabolism generates various changes
to the molecular and cellular structure and composition of the body, and those changes accumulate over time.
Excuse me.
And for a long, long time, those changes are harmless.
They have no significant effect on physical or mental function because the body is built to be able to tolerate a certain amount of that.
But eventually, there's more than what the body is set up to tolerate,
and that leaves us with a problem.
The body starts to go downhill, both mentally and physically,
and so that's the second process, damage-creating pathology.
All right, so yes, the idea is to go in and periodically repair the damage,
essentially to do preventative maintenance on the body,
so that even though the body is continuing to generate damage, it does not reach the level of abundance that
is bad for you. And so your first question was, you know, what's this going to mean in terms of
how people look? And absolutely, you're definitely going to look 22, same as you're going to feel and
function like a 22-year-old old and the reason for that is simply that
the skin is the easy part you know the skin is a relatively regenerative tissue and the reason why
you uh start to look old when you are old is because the um skin is having to put up with
an increasingly aged um inside of the body.
So in other words, when we fix the inside,
the outside is going to,
it's not exactly going to fix itself completely,
but it's going to be easier to fix.
Then in terms of female fertility, yes, absolutely.
The ovary is just another organ.
So it's going to be just as possible to rejuvenate the ovaries as it is
the rest of the body and so yes absolutely female fertility will be uh maintained for as long as one
wants uh in fact one can probably get to the point where one can switch it on and off without
too much difficulty uh soary transplant, maybe?
Kind of, kind of, but I'm specifically wondering because, you know,
women are born with all of the eggs that they'll ever have,
and at a certain age they run out.
So I suppose then the aging reversal protocol would need to be applied
before a woman, I don't know, aged out, right?
Not necessarily.
As Rock said, one option is simply to grow new ovaries in the lab
and transplant them, same as we might do with a liver or any other organ.
That's obviously a big and quite promising research area.
Another possibility is to rejuvenate the ovary in situ.
As you say, the natural situation is that no more oocyte egg cells
are created during life, and so the ovary just gets progressively depleted
and eventually there are none left.
But there's no reason why that should necessarily be the case.
The idea of re-stimulating oogenesis the creation of new oocytes is perfectly biologically plausible
and indeed people are working on that so either of those options definitely can exist and there's
absolutely no reason to suppose that one would need to start early in life that's that's great
and you know with with everybody kind of all up in the airs about, like, you know,
fertility issues today and, you know, lack of people, that's great news.
I'm really glad that you had that answer.
I want to ask one more really quick question,
and then I know Rock wants to get back to you.
James has had his hands up.
No, keep going, Nicole.
No worries.
I'm just excited to ask him all these questions I've been thinking about
for the last, you know, month since the last show.
Well, and I bet that Dr. Moo has something to say or some questions to ask here, too.
So I want to make sure that there's room. But do you have any estimate on how far away this technology is from being used in humans?
Well, I mean, this is what I call longevity escape velocity right I
think that we have a 50 50 chance of getting to a reasonably comprehensive
amount of rejuvenation within the next 12 to 15 years you know it remains to be
seen what and what that really looks terms of which parts of the process are sufficiently far along to be ready for prime time and to be introduced into humans and which ones are going to take a little longer.
behind this research field, you know, once we take aging seriously the way we did with
COVID six years ago, you know, really the rate at which things are going to progress
is going to be incomparable to what we see today. And people, different people, different
research groups will be working on different parts of it. And of course, they will be using each other's findings to accelerate their own work. So I can very much
foresee that pretty much all of the basics that we're going to want to put in place in order to
get people to stay healthy for a longer time will emerge relatively simultaneously.
Well, you know what's crazy is, and I like that you bring up the COVID thing
because you said in one of your interviews
that we need to make longevity the next COVID
or something like that, which is that...
That's right.
Yeah, go ahead. I'll let you state the case.
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
I said we need to make aging the new COVID
because basically, you know,
everything we thought we knew six years ago
about um reasons why medical progress is really slow was just thrown out of the window you know
all the in all the institutional you know inertia and regulatory bureaucracy and so on you know it was just torn up and that's and the result was
that vaccines got developed and globally distributed in less than a year whereas the
previous world record was like 10 years um you know this is what can happen when humanity put
its mind to it and now we have an You know, we actually did it relatively recently.
So it's kind of humanity knows that humanity can do this
when it puts its mind to it.
And that's why I believe that we don't need to worry too much
about regulatory inertia and so on.
All we really need to do is just get, you know,
just to break the pro-aging trance,
to get people to
understand that aging is bad for you and that we have a chance of fixing it in the foreseeable future.
Well, it's like AI. Imagine if we moved the resources, because you're still
only dealing with like, generally, I think you're getting like most years single digit, you know,
years, single digit, seven figures of fund donations, maybe more in some better years.
But I mean, imagine if we did what we've done with AI. We see it as a national security thing
in the US. And so now we're dumping billions and tens of billions, maybe hundreds of billions into
it. China's doing the same. And look at how fast AI is moving, right? Data centers going up,
people getting plans for data centers in space in the coming year.
I mean, imagine if we put that kind of effort into longevity,
which to me is a much more important issue than even AI,
which I am ultra bullish on.
Right, totally.
I mean, it's very frustrating.
You know, even if it were single-digit billions, that would be quite enough.
And there are single-digit billions in the longevity movement now.
The problem is that those billions are being very unevenly distributed,
as I mentioned earlier, that certain areas like partial reprogramming
are getting huge funding.
And, you know, that's good that these things are being funded
because they are
going to have a good chance of having a big benefit, but they won't get us to longevity
escape velocity on their own. They need also to be accompanied by similar amounts of progress,
which costs similar amounts of money, in a bunch of other damage repair areas.
And otherwise, you know, we will simply not get the full benefit.
And that's not happening.
Well, and I like the approach you guys take
where you're generally focusing on the things
where you see kind of low-hanging fruit
but not enough money going into it.
So typically, it seems like you guys will get
your personal and the people around you.
Goals have been, let's focus on a topic or some therapy or some area, and then we'll
use donation money to get it started.
And then once it gets to a point where there's a path to monetization or profit, then investors
start coming in and they take the baton and,
you know, go on and then you move to something else that is in early stages.
Yeah. I mean, that's right. And the frustrating thing is that most of the money that's coming
into the field right now is either, you know, I mean, a lot of it is genuinely normal investors,
people who actually want to make money in the field,
and they feel that certain areas are, you know, far enough along
that they can see the financial light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.
Fine.
But the biggest amounts of money that are coming in
are from people who have other ways to make lots of money
and who are not running their companies as profit-making entities.
I'm thinking mostly of Calico and Altof Labs.
But they are running them as companies in other ways
in the sense of being very secretive and so on.
And this is slowing things down.
It's completely idiotic.
And, you know, obviously I have made that clear as loudly as I can, but, you know, it's,
unfortunately, you know, it's their money. They can choose how to spend it and they're not choosing
it very well. Hey, real quick, we've got 10 minutes left with Aubrey. I want to make sure
that Dr. Moo gets to introduce himself, at least I think, unless that's not something that you're interested in.
But I know that you do follow longevity.
So there's that opportunity first.
Yeah, do you want to take it?
Thank you kindly.
It was an absolute pleasure getting to meet you and speak to you, Dr. Aubrey.
Aubrey. It just gives me a lot of power to see that there are people in this world really backing
research and getting the knowledge out there to people. And like you said not too long ago about
I wish the world took longevity as serious as COVID because I worked here in South Africa in
the COVID unit and it was insane. And now getting to be one of the younger doctors
in the forefront of pushing this type of medicine
here in South Africa as well.
At least I don't feel alone
because I've got other colleagues like me
here in South Africa
and just putting education out there
to even the people here within my space and my community that these things can be changed.
Pharmaceutical companies can be challenged.
Our diet and our lifestyle can be changed to allow us to live a stronger and happier life.
life. So I don't have major questions. I've just been listening attentively, but I wish you all
So I don't have major questions.
the best and hope that people do actually allow you to continue your research and you get that
six, seven million dollars you need in order to start the next round of mice.
Well, thank you very much.
All right. Now, James has had his hand up for well over 30 minutes now.
James, did you have a question for Dr. Albert Gray?
Yes, I actually do. This is James Holtz. I'm with Spectruth, another project that's launching on bioprotocol like he did with his genetic AI.
My question is very simple. I hear everybody talking about supplements, things that you're taking.
And it's very simple.
I hear everybody talking about supplements, things that you're taking.
I'm curious about longevity on external factors, for example, sauna, hyperbaric, and maybe even eboo.
I didn't know what your thoughts were on those three.
Well, I don't really have any particular insights.
I mean, these are, of course, things that a number of people are trying.
things that a number of people are trying rock was talking about how brian johnson does some of
Rock was talking about how Brian Johnson does some of these things.
these things um you know i i i put them really in the same in the exact same category along with
supplements and you know other lifestyle and dietary um interventions these are things that
there is some logic to why they might be beneficial and they appear to be beneficial to some extent for some people, but of course everything is down to the specifics of one's own metabolism,
so they may work for some people and not for others.
This is just the same as it is for supplements and diet and so on.
With that being said, though, I mean,
like lots of things we have to kind of generalize in life
because we can't do an RCT on every topic
on ourselves. So we have to go, for example, saunas. If you go two to three, there's studies
that if you go two to three times a week, you reduce cardiovascular disease, heart attack risk
by 20% actually. And it's the same for Alzheimer's or all forms of dementia, including Alzheimer's.
It's around the 20%. If you go four to seven times a week,
it reduces by 60 to 70% for both of those, cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, and dementia causes, which are the two leading causes of death in the UK and top five in US, I believe.
So, I mean, we can look at some of these things that are really general
studies and still, I mean, it doesn't hurt to do these, those kind of things, right? Even though
we don't know enough about ourselves individually. Can I just ask one follow-on question?
And then I promise I'll be done. I'll let Rock take over, Nikki, everybody. My question to you
is, have you come across anything that you would say helps remove microplastics from a person's system?
That's something that's coming up quite a lot at the moment. No.
The closest that I've been aware of over the years to that problem is the problem of heavy metal accumulation,
which definitely does happen.
And in general, the only thing that really seems to be effective,
there are things called chelators, which can remove certain heavy metals.
But there's also the fact that many of these things accumulate predominantly in
adipose tissue, in fat.
And that's handy because fat is something that one can manipulate by diet.
One can essentially, if one starves for a long time, one loses a bunch of fat, and the
stuff that was in the fat cells is essentially released into the circulation.
And having been released into the circulation, much of it gets excreted.
So this is a very low-tech way of reducing the amount of external contaminants that are in adipose tissue. Now, I don't know whether microplastics have been shown
to predominantly accumulate in adipose tissue.
So, you know, this may simply not be relevant there.
And I certainly agree that it's something we should be working hard to address.
It's not something that I have particular insight on.
Thank you very much.
Out of curiosity, do you have any
longevity people that you watch? Like, do you watch Brian Johnson, Sinclair, or is there anybody
that you actually say, yes, I take this serious? Well, I wouldn't say I exactly watch them. I,
you know, I have beers with them every so often. You know, I know them all very well, of course.
is with them every so often uh you know i know them all very well of course um but uh no i think
really it's because of this you know underlying principle that every single person is different
and that one has to identify one's own optimum uh you know it's just i would not want to um
to follow what somebody else does with their own body any more than I would, you know, whether those
people are knowledgeable about the field or not.
I would rather, you know, learn what is known that's generally true about mechanisms and
so on, and then, you know, rely on the measurements that are being done on me myself, and what,
the measurements that are being done on me myself and what, as I say, the subjective measurements, i.e. what feels good, as a guide to what I should be doing.
Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm all done. Nikki, Rock, it's all you.
Thanks. Hey, Aubrey, I know you only have a few more minutes. I want to give you the chance to tell people who don't know how they can reach LEV Foundation or LEVF, right?
Right, yeah.
We don't call it LEV Foundation.
We call it LEV Foundation.
Well, of course, we have a website, levf.org, and I'm sure you'll be able to distribute that to your list.
But, yes, please, everyone, please go there.
We're actually having it revamped right now.
We've been given...
Essentially somebody bought...
Somebody is paying for an extremely talented graphic designer
to redo our website to make it look a lot more attractive and professional.
And we're upgrading the content there as well.
But the content right now has all manner of stuff
about the studies that we did that ended last year
and the study we want to do.
And, of course, there's a nice friendly donate button.
You can donate in absolutely every way possible,
whether it's fiat or crypto,
or we take stock donations.
You name it, we take it.
You take subscriptions on donations?
Sure, absolutely.
You can sign up to do a monthly donation.
I think that's probably,
I don't know how much you get from that,
but I know for me,
that's the best way that people have gotten donations
from me over the years is I'll sign up
and I'll donate whatever,
20 a month to this org or,
you know,
50 a month to signal foundation or whatever.
And I just,
it's been burning for years.
So yeah,
awesome.
I'll sign up for that right now.
You have my word.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to us.
And I hope we can invite you back again sometime.
Absolutely. And so sorry that today twitter is completely down for many regions of the world i think europe a lot of
places it's down a lot it's totally messed up right now so our numbers today were just a very
baby fraction of what we normally get on the show and but next time yeah it would be great if we
could have i think you're you couldn't get on on your normal. It'd be great if we could get your followers on your account
and spread the word about this and get more people,
you know, visibility on the subject,
because you do a great job, I think,
getting the world excited about this with,
I don't even know how many TED Talks you've done
and, you know, your interview with Joe Rogan
and coming on here.
We appreciate you so much and what you're doing for the world.
Well, thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm really happy to be here and thank you for uh arranging it
cheers yeah um okay we'll we'll continue on the subject um i guess uh let's see does anyone have
anything they want to talk about as follow-up there for uh for aubry i think he's probably hopping off it seems like but um no i can spend another couple oh great nice uh yeah if anyone
else has any more questions about this um i i have maybe a a fun one which is that i i know you're uh
you're you like beer and you like good beer um and your numbers still are pretty good with having drinks.
So maybe that gives some people some hope
that it's okay to have some drinks
and it's not going to totally kill you.
Well, that's right.
I mean, as I've been saying,
you know, your mileage may vary.
I probably drink a bit more than most people would do it who are who want to live
a long time but I pay close attention to the impact of that and yes it's fine I have good
alcohol tolerance but yes obviously some it's something that one should evaluate on oneself
not just do what I do right yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that you have like
a rare genetic case of being able to not exercise or diet and just kind of, yeah. Okay. Dr. Mu and
James both have their hands up. I am most likely going to have to leave soon, but one point that
I may want to just put out there, I'm not sure if anyone knows that NAC, N-acetylcysteine,
is one of the best hangover cures in the world. So, I am not sure if anyone knows about that,
as it speeds up phase two of our detoxification. So, it is funny, December time here in South
Africa is our summer time. So, I was actually telling a lot of my patients
that before bed, take two or three, maybe 1,500 milligrams of NAC and you can actually speed up
the process of getting alcohol out of your liver and actually waking up with less hangover symptoms.
So that's just a quick tip yeah that's much more sophisticated
than the Scottish approach of just
doing a tactical spew before you go to bed
is that a method that you're familiar with?
yeah I mean
we would call it a tactical
I was asking Aubrey
yeah I think if one has drunk that much one may be um uh one may not be particularly
reliable in remembering one's tactics but uh yeah uh no i do not have either of those problems
um yeah okay i have to run but thank you again, everybody.
And yeah, happy to come back again.
Absolutely, thank you so much again.
Thanks, Aubrey, so much.
And let's see.
King Dank, you had your hand up.
Was it a question for him or a topic you want to talk about?
Yeah, no, it was. I've been listening the whole time and I was just going to ask him in his experience and study if he has any cases where
people have lived over 120 years old. That's still the target for them. It's like longevity
research. Yeah, I don't think we can answer that. But Dr. Mu, I know you said that you're going to
have to go really soon. I just wanted to tell you that the last time that you were on, we were talking mostly about psychedelics.
And you mentioned scolidium, which I have since tried and is really pleasant.
Thank you so much for that.
I also since tried.
I think I'm pretty sure it was something uh Michal's wife gave me and I'm pretty sure that's
what it was because they said it was the one we talked about on the show and uh I was in Jackson
Hole actually during the Fed meeting where I was hanging out with Paul Atkins the head of the SEC
and uh that night uh uh after the conference ended and we went rafting uh yeah I tried like
or no it was during rafting
actually but i was scared it was going to be too strong or something so i i don't think i did enough
i i didn't barely felt it because i was you know i don't i don't do a lot of stuff like whatever i
thought it might be but it was not what i thought it might be and you're going to see within the next year america's going to boom in skeletium um i'm actually traveling to
california hopefully in june to kind of have a few meetings with regards to skeletium
snoop dog just apparently opened up a skeletium drink a can of drink because i heard recently
that kratom was banned by the FDA.
And it seems like Scalitium is going to be the next.
Oh, wow. Kratom was banned.
I didn't know about that.
I actually remember there being protests against the scheduling of Kratom and them stopping because of how severe the protests were.
Yes. So it's actually been banned.
Yes, so it's actually been banned and most gummy companies, most supplement companies
are being forced to take their supplements or their products off out of petrol stations,
the gas stations and all of these things.
How do you feel about that?
I agree because Kratom is an extremely powerful plant and can help with many different things, including anxiety, pain relief.
The issue I have with it is it's a opioid receptor agonist.
So the opioid crisis is a big known thing in America for all these years.
And I think kratom became a big issue because it's so easily addictive for me
so i believe that the regulation of the plant is definitely a good step to less i'd say hurt in the
world so i guess the way one of the things i look at there is um i've triedatom in very low doses. And my thinking has always been,
I like Dr. Aubrey de Grey, I like alcohol,
but I know alcohol is very unhealthy.
And so I've always been thinking,
hey, when I go out on date night with Cindy
or whatever on a weekend after a week of hard work
and being healthy all week,
I wanna have a good time. I wanna have a week of hard work and being healthy all week, I want to have a good
time.
I want to have a couple of drinks, but I just know that even just a few drinks is pretty
unhealthy.
So recently, I cut down from I was having three to six drinks a week on average, and
I cut that down to just at max one drink a week now.
But in the past, when I had thought about doing, that was mostly because of just research and AI telling me
that this would help with things like inflate,
inflammation, cholesterol, testosterone,
free testosterone, bioavailable testosterone,
prolactin, estradiol and these things.
So I just decided, you know what?
I just don't need this.
And it's not, I don't think it's so worth it.
But anyways, it would be nice if I could find alternatives
or other people out there who aren't able to just,
you know, stop drinking or don't want to
could switch to something like Kratom.
So as an alternative, you know, doing a small,
for example, picture if instead of having,
you know, five drinks in a night,
you had one drink and then you had a couple, you know,
kratom pills and then you did a microdose of some, you know,
psilocybin or mushrooms.
Is that a better alternative than, you know, drinking more?
Wait one second.
I have to jump in, Rock.
So are you allowed to stack up your drinks?
Like let's say you don't have a drink for four weeks.
Can you then have five drinks the next week or?
I don't know i i suppose i'm but i'm i've just been doing like one drink or like you know cindy and i have this korean
place near us and they have this thing called makgoli which is a fermented rice wine and we'll
split one so that then i have like a half of a drink but it's like this fermented good stuff in
it but anyways no i guess i could stack them if i wanted sure okay so you're not like one drink that's really out of cider
no i'm not doing that nice okay i'm not i'm not doing das boot no well the thing is i just uh
i definitely think you should look into skeletium drinks as an alternative to alcohol. I have actually
helped multiple of my patients come off their alcoholism
with scelitium drinks because the idea is
the plant provides a little bit of serotonin and dopamine.
So if a patient pops that beer and
gets that happy chemicals and feelings from drinking
that beer, you provide an alternative that also gives a small amount of those chemicals.
And then it is just about a habitual change to choose the alternative rather than the
one that used to give you so much happy chemicals.
So I have helped quite a few patients
off their alcohol addictions
with squaleteam drinks specifically.
Kratom as well, Kratom capsules,
definitely in micro and macro doses.
Even Kratom tea bags could be a really useful alternative.
But you just supported banning
or rescheduling of Kratom also.
So how do you square that?
Rescheduling and control, Brock, because I've seen, unfortunately, a few of my close friends
get addicted to Kratom.
I know a few people currently who are really addicted to Kratom.
So I think if it's guided and if it's done in small amounts
and people understand that this is what the plant does
and to form a better relationship with the plant
than just, oh, I can use this to feel a little bit better
or as an alternative to alcohol, I can have this all the time.
People just need to be aware of the potential of addiction to
that plant as well why do we need government regulation for people to have a relationship
with the plant i just playing devil's advocate here and by the way i also know someone a very
good friend of mine a very smart and um like successful person who has been addicted to Kratom for like five years and
like has quit for like a few months at a time at times, but is still doing it now and is like,
yeah, I really don't know how I can quit this. He uses it for work. I mean, he uses it all like
all day for work, kind of like you see some people in other countries doing, what is the beet nut that they chew in Asia and those kinds of things.
Or, you know, when people would chew on, you know, what was it,
cocoa leaves and stuff long ago and working out on the plantations
and kind of one of these things, or I guess for some people, energy drinks.
How many of you leave urgently now? I'd love to be on in the future absolutely can't wait to have you back on
you're such a valuable addition here absolute pleasure but please look into squeleteum i think
the drinks are going to start popping off in america and hope to speak to everyone any health
risks with it or addiction risks before you if if you have to go, go ahead, knock off.
No worries.
No addiction risks, but definitely health risks with massive amounts.
Serotonin syndrome can come by, but no addictive risks, which is really great.
Interesting.
All the best.
Lots of love.
And thank you again for having me.
Wait, is that available in the US now?
Yes, it is.
I can send you a link.
It really is. Okay, cool. If I look around, it is. I can send you a link. It really is.
Okay, cool.
Look around.
It definitely is.
And I'm going to be coming in June.
I'm starting my own gummy supplement company in California come February or March.
Oh, cool.
I'm in California at the moment.
Okay, great.
Yeah, I'll look into it and try to find if there's any studies on this.
Keep well.
Thank you very much.
See you, Dr. Mu. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah, that'll look into it and try to find if there's any studies on this. Keep well. Thank you very much. See you, Dr. Moo.
Thanks.
Yeah, that was awesome.
What a great morning panel there, huh?
I just found out that Buckfast is illegal in the USA.
Buck...
What?
Buckfast.
What are we talking about?
What is this?
It's an alcoholic drink in Scotland.
It's tonic wine
Basically just laced with caffeine
Jack most eloquently described it once
As the drink that the youths of Scotland
Drink before they go out and battle on the streets
Sure, sure
Like malt beer
Like Mad Dog 2020
No, it's a tonic wine
It's like 15%
And then it's just run fully caffeine
Tonic wine? What is that?
You know what I'm saying?
Sign me up.
Call me first to drink that shit.
What is a tonic
wine? Say that again in your accents.
W-I-N-E
Wine.
What is that?
Like wine.
Like W-I-N-E.
Wine.
Oh, wine.
Wine.
Yes.
Wine.
Wayne.
Like, Wayne's World?
He's taking a piss on stage.
Like, he's really, really saying something, bro.
He's messing with me, I think.
No, just...
So, it's basically caffeine and wine yeah it's
illegal to sell a drink that's um like caffeine and alcohol in the usa apartment uh not everywhere
so i think they still do in like vegas but i think i could be wrong on that but at one point
they they banned it in california for sure what were they um it's not mad dog mad
dog is just malt liquor i think uh yes four locos four locals so uh that's a liability is what that
is here yeah if people were it was crazy when yeah this was like college days for me i think um and
a little before college maybe but it was basically a very strong alcohol uh call it i don't know what they must have been
i think the highest one was like maybe 13 or 14 percent and then it would be mixed with a bunch
of sugar stuff to make it so you barely taste the alcohol and then with a bunch of ton of caffeine
and you were just like going you know off the wall uh are you talking about everclear no everclear
is just a very strong alcohol literally uh they they in, you could get like a 22 or 24 ounce of this.
Yes, tall boy.
It's more loco.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
And one Halloween, I'm not going to say how long ago, whether it was near or far, but let's, for the sake of this argument, hope that it was far enough for legal ramifications.
I hope that it was far enough for legal ramifications.
I drank two of those, and I put a shot of, what the hell was it?
I want to say it was crown apple.
Yeah, a shot of crown apple in each one, two of them.
And, you know what I'm saying, smoked a fatty.
I don't remember anything.
The next morning when I woke up, don't remember how I got there.
I'm pretty sure I drove.
But, you know what I'm saying?
Like, I don't know how I drove.
It was like the hangover. It was the scene from the hangover oh i was there yeah how'd i get
there bro type shit like yeah oh i don't know you know in the right city yeah that kind of shit
funny enough we were actually at the house from the hangover last week at michael turpin's mansion
uh doing an investor summit during ces conference so that was kind of kind of fun. We weren't drunk like that, unfortunately.
But yeah, Four Locos, that was crazy.
They banned them, and then you were still able to get them in Vegas,
which was awesome.
I don't know if they're still there or not, nor do I know if I would even –
if they still had it and I was –
Bradley Cooper had a rare stash of that shit.
Speaking of, you were at the house where it was filmed.
No, I'm dead serious.
He's a Philadelphia Eagle fan dead serious he's a Philadelphia
Eagle fan and he's a little
he's a little he's a little he's a little
he's a little upset right now because
you know what I'm saying they weren't able to get it done but yeah
if you get on good terms or if you're on good terms
with Mr. Bradley Cooper I think
you can get your hands on some four local
people are selling these underground
that's funny they've been banned for like 10 years
it's pretty wild that you can't go into Walmart and get a Ford local, but you can buy
a gun.
Yeah.
Sneakazies are where it's at, bro.
If you have this vintage shit that you bought legally,
they're not going to your house and taking it from you.
You see what I'm saying?
There's people out there that still have Mickey's
and what's the other shit?
Cisco.
You know what I'm saying? you're not dead serious bro there's
some you know what i mean from wait mickey's mickey what's wrong with mickey's just malt liquor
right no no no no no no no they used to the the real mickey's you know i'm saying it used to it
used to it was like kind of like mad dog 2020 there's little these little these little shots
you could buy you know i'm saying but you had to get it from the liquor store because this is
it's like liquid crack. Same thing as Cisco.
So they had caffeine or what?
No, no, no, no, no.
The caffeine was basically an alternative.
You know what I mean?
The answer to freaking crystal meth for that generation.
What are you saying?
You're saying they actually put drugs in these alcohols?
Cisco was so strong, bro, that it was called liquid crack had this is stuff they had to pull off the
shelves you see what i'm saying but the the abc doesn't go from house to house and start you know
what i'm saying get so there's people that actually had hung on to crates of this stuff
you know what i'm saying and they still have it cisco definitely there's cisco around real cisco
bro and it's like it's like a syrupy like a cough drop like especially the grape flavor it's it's
it's nasty because it's so strong it's like it's like it's like 60 wait what's in it here we should
probably get back to health because this is the opposite of what we're supposed to be talking
about but what what is this what's in it is it alcohol i don't know yeah what it's called it's
s i i remember if it was though one of them's the food company. The other one was the alcohol.
I think it was S.
That's okay.
What's in it?
I don't know what the concoction was because they banned it.
My dude, like they don't sell it anymore.
They don't make it anymore.
You feel me?
But it's that American shit that, you know what I'm saying?
Like, like give it to these guys.
They'll make it better.
And no, they didn't make it better. They did. Yeah. It was, it was dead.
Well, well, um, so to the kind of CISCO for, for those who are interested, that's how it's
spelled. I just looked it up. Um, yep, of course. Thank you. Uh, okay. Let me steer the conversation
a little bit back towards health. Um, Paul, I know you probably are going to have to leave soon too.
We've already had you for over two hours.
You're welcome to stay for as long as you like.
But since you haven't been involved in the conversation much in the last hour,
actually wondering if you have done any research or if you know anything about the use of nicotine without smoking.
That's not one of my areas of expertise.
I have ran into a few people that have talked about it and used it, but yeah, not really
one of my areas of research.
Admittedly, my angle, like when you guys were talking about like stem cells and like some
other like supplements and going into like drug therapies and whatnot, I tend to look
at like, hey, what did our ancestors do two to
three, four or five hundred years ago? What was available to us at that point in time?
And leverage that lifestyle and availability to determine what should be healthy today.
And so anything that is what I'd call like a bit newer in technology, although nicotine is pretty old. It's been around for quite some time. So, you know, that kind of deviates from what I'd call a bit newer in technology. Although nicotine is pretty old.
It's been around for quite some time.
So that kind of deviates from what I was just saying.
But I'll tend to definitely defer to a lot more of the natural alternatives, I guess now.
It's weird that they're an alternative when they're kind of the way we've been operating for thousands of years.
So unfortunately, answer, I don't know too much about nicotine.
It's crossed my path.
It's had a light level of interest.
I remember watching an episode, I think, on Huberman where he had covered it.
And, you know, there was a proponent for, like, I don't call it microdosing,
but use of it for, especially for studying.
especially for studying, like when you're going into heavy research,
Like when you're going into heavy research, you know, using a small amount of help.
you know, using a small amount of it to help.
It's my substitute or number one nootropic for a substitute for pharmaceuticals.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a lot of pharmaceuticals.
In what form, Nicole?
Gum.
Oh, really? Interesting.
That's what I've heard.
Yeah, I've heard gums are a common use.
And I think one of the difficulties for me in any nootropic or anus is supposed to elevate.
The gum is super expensive, but my fiancé, he uses the patches or the pouches.
Like Zin?
Yeah, like Zins, yeah.
And that's just like pure, I don't know, nicotine crystals or something like that,
as opposed to a ground-up tobacco, basically.
I haven't looked into it that
much honestly i've tried one once i got lightheaded after about five minutes it's yeah those things
are intense uber to me like i mean call me generation x slash boomer of the bunch but
like we just like really like you know nicotine patch you know i'm saying like we that was if you
couldn't smoke you know i'm saying we went like, that patch type of theory, right?
So this is the kind of same type of thing, right?
A small dosage of nicotine, a small controlled dosage in the form of what?
Gum, you said it is?
That's what I use, but it's prohibitively expensive if you're going to be using it every day.
Are there medical researches to the damages of prolonged exposure to nicotine
uh you know what as far as i know there there are
from what i know it seems relatively safe i was actually hoping that someone else on the panel
might have more information than i do you know nicole i know you you don't shy away from the
experimenting with this kind of stuff,
but I guess I'll just say to everyone here, I, after getting some of my blood work done,
decided to make a lot of changes in my life. And I am now at the point where I'm thinking
about quitting caffeine because I have so much energy all day long and almost into the night.
all day long and almost into the night. And so I would recommend for a lot of people,
maybe instead of experimenting with some of these things that may be risky, is try like,
okay, here's the things I've done and I don't know what's working and what's not. But I mean,
I feel crazy. People are asking me, I got asked twice recently by one Aztec
and then another person at the CES conference we were at,
if I had gotten Botox recently and they said my skin,
everyone's telling me my skin looks crazy good
and my wrinkles are literally going away.
Botox is also on my list of potential topics or questions for today. Yeah. Well, I have
some kind of magical non-Botox Botox going on or something apparently, but yeah, my, I don't know.
So I basically quit fast food almost completely, like maybe once a month, if that. I don't eat really any fried foods anymore. I've had like
three Diet Cokes in like two months, which I used to have one or two a day. I am doing sauna every
day. I'm not every day, but most days. I've continued to walk as I'm walking right now on
this call. I walk every day on business calls and Twitter spaces.
I walk like five, seven miles a day.
I eat sardines every day, which has your omegas and collagen and calcium and selenium and
vitamin D and magnesium, a bunch of stuff.
And just general smoothies almost every day, which is a ton of different fruit and vegetables
and olive oil, extra virgin olive oil,
high polyphenol extra virgin olive oil,
15 milliliters a day, small, a tablespoon every day.
Some other things, but doing those things,
I have like infinite energy.
I feel amazing.
My skin looks crazy good.
I'm losing weight.
My shoulder is healing.
Oh, one other thing I did that could be affecting this,
the glow peptides, the BPC-157, TB-500 and GHKCU.
I did that for five weeks.
And my shoulder that was hurt for three years
is now like every time I go into the gym,
I'm lifting heavier on it, which is crazy.
I couldn't do anything on it for the longest time, zero weight.
So I guess I would say if you could change your lifestyle completely and do all this
healthy stuff, you know, you don't need to do things that are, you know, riskier things for
energy. Like, like I would say nicotine is definitely risky, right? Even in gum form.
But yeah, what do you, what do you think about that, Nicole?
I think that like, similarly to you, right?
Like I think that people should be able to choose what they put into their body and, you know, like or, you know, or what they exercise with and what other people do is none of my business.
made several changes to my life but i feel like right now with just the position that i'm in
uh making huge drastic life changes isn't really an option for me um yes but i mean i do think
that you know if you've got the you know the means and the time to do it that that sounds
like a great idea i'm not at all opposed to full natural healing
and treatment. Yeah, these things do take time. You're definitely right there. I mean, to go
to the gym even four times a week, that's at least four to eight hours, depending on driving
there and back and things, which is hard sometimes in our busy lives. I guess what I've found is like sleeping,
you know, at least seven hours a night and going to the gym at least four times a week
makes me, I think, double twice as productive in all my other activities. So it feels like it's a
good use of my time. But yeah, if anyone else has any thoughts on any of these things that we're
talking about,
anyone can feel free to jump in. Well, exercise, absolutely, and diet, right? So I'm just going to
say this. Those are two things that I am pretty on top of, pretty regimented. I could fall off.
I broke my ribs on Tuesday night. I fractured at least three of my ribs. That's what the x-ray
position could see. Oh, my God.
Yeah. And they said that there may be more that they just couldn't see what the x-ray. Um, yeah, that's so, and they said that there may
be more that they just couldn't see through the x-ray. Um, but yeah, so, but I'm like,
I'm surprisingly walking around right now and I feel it hurts, but like, I, I, I feel okay.
Well, sorry to hear that. Uh, well, I know you just DM'd me that I think this morning or last
night. That is a huge
bummer yeah i've broken a lot of ribs they suck are you does it hurt when you breathe yeah well
it used to be okay so the first night and the second night it was like if i changed position
it hurts and now it does like that's the biggest thing is if i change the way that i'm elevated
it hurts but if i'm still or, like, walking softly, it doesn't hurt.
That's good.
By the way, we have Ed Borgo.
I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right.
Nicole, was he an invited guest or just showed up?
Just showed up.
But, like, a lot of people did, and that's totally welcome here.
He's been on a few times
though yeah yeah he has bourgeois bourgeois bourgeois and is right on topic for this when
we talk about kind of natural um things to do with your diet that make it so we don't have to take
as many things um yeah ed do you want to jump in yeah i work in regenerative agriculture for a long time. And we've been doing a lot of
work on the health of the food that we produce on a farm. And of course, we've just recently
really been able to use the soil microbiome and the plant microbiome to understand and advance
nutrition to our plants or our crops or our or animals everything we produce on a farm and for many years we had asked academia and stuff to really understand the nutrient density and measure it and they always told us all there's only a 10 or 20% maybe difference depending on how you grow it. And we're not just talking organic, we're beyond organic.
But the Bionutrient Food Association, which was started by a bunch of farmers, basically,
have done some advanced research on the metabolites using metabolomics
to really understand nutrient density and spectrum in our food.
And it was shocking over the last five
or six years to realize how bad it was over 90 something percent of the food that comes off of a
farm that we have access to is only about the 10th to 20 something percentile of when we look at the
variation of let's say carrots or broccoli or anything of what it could and should be and that's
was shocking to realize we all experience that we have that supermarket tomato and it doesn't
taste like anything and of course taste hey ed could i pause you for i'm so sorry just for one
moment we have a guest that's gonna have to leave so i want him to be able to say uh bye and i think
he had a comment on the last topic of nicole that want to share, uh, that, uh, Darren, uh, got in DMs, uh, spec truth.
Uh, I think you're going to be leaving here. Did you want to say anything before you go or comment
on that last part? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry about this. I know I have to take off, but, um, nicotine
I've been on for two years. I did a patch, I guess I'm similar to, I think you said it was your husband or a boyfriend.
Yep.
I find it helps a lot with mental clarity.
And I can say I haven't gotten sick in the last two years since taking them.
He's like that, too.
And like I said, I use nicotine gum like here and there where I need to be hyper-focused.
But he uses the Zen pouches every day.
And I've never seen him sick.
And yeah, he has a math PhD. He's super focused. This has been his whole life.
Yeah. What I have learned, though, is I will never take it after lunch. I'll put it on basically
first thing in the morning. And because if I take it after lunch, it, I don't know.
I like that clarity in the morning and then I like to sort of relax at night.
I'm super with you there.
I feel the same way about caffeine.
Like I can't really drink caffeine afternoon.
And then I did have a question.
So this, you guys think, um, yeah, but before that, do you, I mean,
I imagine just from what we know about
nicotine through cigarettes and other things
and, you know, chewing tobacco,
all the cancerous and all the crazy
stuff. Have you guys,
is there studies on this? Is this
safe? Is this less
bad? Is this good?
I have a friend
who's a mutual friend of Junior,
RFK Junior, and he takes nicotine also.
And ever since my friend talked about it about two, two and a half years ago, I've been following it.
And so the nicotine itself is a non-carcinogen.
That's not causing cancer on any level.
It's supposed to have a ton of health benefits, one of which was upper
respiratory, where if you notice people, when COVID was going around, people that smoked
weren't getting COVID. And a lot of people were saying it's because of the nicotine in
the cigarettes. So I'm a proponent of nicotine. I think it's a great thing, especially in
the mornings. The reason i do the patch not
the gum is cost just that's the only difference do you know about the pouches though they're so
much more affordable are they yeah well i'll definitely take a look at it honestly i mean
those are obviously really popular right now there's other brands i can't imagine they're not
it feels like so dangerous to me but i guess
maybe i'm being a prude here um you're not being a prude because let's be honest when you think of
nicotine you think of cigarettes but cigarettes aren't tobacco cigarettes are what 143 chemicals
shoved into a little you know pouch that people smoke And then you have filters which are made out of asbestos.
Cigarettes themselves are absolutely horrible,
but I remember it's not Tucker Carlson,
it's another guy with black hair
that does the same thing online.
And he was talking about how high-end cigars
out of Cuba have zero cancer risk.
Yeah, you know, I think- Because it's just natural tobacco leaf. I know.
I want to get back to Ed and let you say goodbye. But I know that I know that like women in the 60s and 70s would smoke during their pregnancy. And I think that the reason there weren't more
deformations is that there was far less involved in cigarettes then than there is now. There are
far fewer carcinogens and chemicals and all of that.
But do you know anything about that?
I guess it's like bread too, you know.
There's people in some countries that eat, I think maybe like Italy or Spain,
they eat a ton of bread, but they don't have all the diabetes stuff that we have
have all the diabetes stuff that we have because they're eating, you know, there's like three
because they're eating, you know, there's like three ingredients.
ingredients. It's like flour, salt, and water, as opposed to, you know, our, you know, refined,
enriched, you know, white flour that we have in the United States and so many things. So maybe the
more natural way isn't so bad, but because we mix these things with all these other things, the base ingredient, either, you know, flour or
tobacco gets a worse name. Definitely. But it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having
me. I look forward to the next one and hope everybody stays healthy and safe. Thanks, James.
Hope everybody stays healthy and safe.
Thanks, James.
Okay, sorry, we interrupted Ed to say goodbye to James and revisit the nicotine conversation.
Ed, I'm really glad you showed up.
I couldn't remember your handle from the last time that you were here, so I didn't know to invite you again this time.
I'm happy that you're here.
I feel like you have a lot to contribute on this topic.
a lot to contribute on this topic. Yeah, one thing farmers have fed chewing tobacco to livestock
as an anti-parasite, so we know it does some effectiveness in that area too.
Nice, excellent, excellent contribution. Thank you. So similar to your ivermectin or your fenbendazoles or those sort of things, there may be some usage of nicotine in that form, which has a lot of other side benefits to it also. I'll give an example. We have a guy who used to work for Bear Monsanto in fungicides for many years,
and he got near retirement and decided he wanted to farm
and set up a citrus orchard in the Georgia-Florida line.
And, of course, he was very science-based in being able to set up test plots
and all that sort of thing.
And he got really interested in regenerative agriculture because of the microbiome,
which, you know, was never really understood or anything until recently.
So he focused on that.
He had his first crop of oranges and grapefruit and other citrus.
I think he planted like 1,300 trees of different varieties a few years ago.
And he had a neighbor that had the exact same variety
exact same soil you know as far as sand silt and clay not the microbiome was doing it right by
industrial ag with the pesticides and the synthetic nitrogens and all that and so he
sent the stuff in so his last year was his first crop and he's got a second crop now coming in that he's starting to measure.
But even in his first crop after just I think it was a little over three years of improving his soil biome,
when he averaged out the beneficial nutrients and phytochemicals in his oranges his were eight times more and in many of the important like even
vitamin c we found in citrus some of your store-bought stuff has almost nothing in it
and his had i don't know i can't remember what the percentage was a huge times difference plus the flavor was just off the charts comparison he did some feeding
tests with friends and would give a slice of his neighbors and give a slice of his and so
we're really finding that's like a huge opportunity and we now have a meter that's been beta tested
and it works it could eventually go into a smartphone so that you when
you go into a market whether it be milk meat fruits vegetables you'll be able to shine it on
that produce let's say you got three different choices of carrots what it's going to do is
through the study work where we understand the variation and then the causation of the most important thing to measure in that.
It's not going to give you the full spectrum of what it's got in it, but it's going to give you within like carrots or within tomatoes.
You know, where is that on the variation scale?
on the variation scale.
And so it'll come up with a one through 10
as to that variation level,
which is gonna give the consumer huge opportunity
to be able to actually have nutrient dense food.
And it's also gonna give the opportunity
to have actually food as medicine,
because if we can through the variation data,
and you know, figure out that something eight or above
um is actually something you could consider as you know as needed for as a rx as a medicine
um then we'll be able to validate that and probably be able to have it actually prescribed
that and probably be able to have it actually prescribed. So we're seeing huge advantages
because we realized that, and that's why we started this work about 40 or 50 years ago,
because we realized that, you know, not even counting the chemicals that we question in our
food system or in our ag system, but it's the nutrient density and spectrum and and taste too so that we don't
have to add all this crap to it to make it so it's palatable we've done studies with kids and
give them a nutrient dense whatever it is strawberry tomato they love it give them one
that's crap they don't want to eat it and that makes makes a lot of sense. So I'll just land it there. But,
you know, it is really hopeful that, you know, we can solve a lot of our problems with our food
system and take a lot of the pressure off of the supplement system that, you know, is really hard
to manage. And plus, a lot of supplements just don't metabolize very well in us, you know,
in the way they work. It's much better through whole food so
as far as health and then people feel better satiety is a huge factor because we're constantly
hungry because you know we're lacking it's natural and we're finding that when you're constantly
hungry it's a huge mental issue and people that that once they get, you know, a good variety,
we're learning that from the carnivore people that are eating grass-fed meat.
That's not just grass-fed, but, you know,
often the high quality stuff is eating over 200 different plant species.
And all of those end up in the meat and end up in us. And so huge advantages
to be able to, and then they realize I'm not hungry all day anymore. And of course,
then you're not overeating. So I'll land it there. All right. Thank you.
You know, just on that point about the meat, I'm just kind of learning recently that,
um, when you talk about, you know, what they eat, whether it's grass fed or whatever that gets into
the meat. And then another way you could get more out of the meat is, uh, eating ground meat. Uh,
because instead of, you know, cutting around the cartilage or these other pieces,
you want to absorb that stuff. It's got collagen and all kinds of other good stuff in it.
All those things that you're talking about that get absorbed from the plant, the plants they eat,
and then goes into different parts of the animal. You want to ingest more of it. It's the same thing
with like sardines. You know know a lot of people will just eat
the fillets which are a lot more palatable they're they're delicious actually uh but i eat the whole
sardine uh mine don't come with a head but i'd probably eat it if it had the head too but you
know i'm eating the organs the spine everything in it and it's soft and it's not very nasty depending
on if you like fish or not
but the more you can eat of these things you get a lot more benefits again collagen calcium all
this other stuff yeah we learned that from basically predators from wolves they don't go
for the meat you know the muscle meat they go for the organ meats and so what we're looking at is same as you mentioned with ground is you know being able to make I mean I on my farm years
ago got really into creating like really incredible sausages where I would mix
different organ meats different muscle meats different herbs and spices for the
flavoring and you know people would just flip on it for it because it was just
so good and that's where you can really get a lot of health because you know you tell somebody we're
going to eat liver or heart or whatever and they're like or as you said cartilage or stuff
all that stuff's really important when you grind it up, mix it up and make it really flavorful.
It's really beneficial food where we thought like sort of the hot dog sausage thing was kind of the garbage meat.
No, it can actually be incredibly powerful.
Well, but in most forms, that's really interesting because in most, most the time, I had my dad at this Japanese market nearby
and there was some type of sausage.
And I said, he said, is that healthy?
And I said, probably not.
Sausage is usually pretty bad,
but you just challenged that idea.
Now I would say probably most hot dogs are still terrible
because they've got all kinds of nitrates
and all kinds of garbage in them.
But what you're saying makes a lot of sense.
If you could find a well-sourced
you know good ingredient sausage it could be healthier than eating just the pretty part of the
the steak or the chicken breast or whatever on this community
the amish are getting brought up again uh what do they do they do that well they just raise their beef and turkeys and
goats and everything like naturally
got it yeah i mean i suppose if you just ground up the liver the heart the organs
put through it and prepare everything yeah
yeah i guess if you grind up all those organs with the meat with the fat even some of the fat Prepare everything, yeah. Yeah.
I guess if you grind up all those organs with the meat, with the fat, even some of the fat,
depending on how much fat content you want, and you're saturated, you're trying to limit or whatever.
Elk is really good.
Don't limit your saturated fat, for one, or at least your cholesterol.
Yeah, jump in, Paul.
Ted, I just want to say thanks so much for everything you said.
I mean, I'm just going to agree.
I'm 90% agree with Ed, but then I have one question.
Totally 100% speaking to the choir.
I try to source everything I can as local from beyond organic, but actually regeneratively
raised.
Our eggs come from a farm that's like 30 or 20 miles
away and they're not corn and soy fed. I just started buying pork from a full pasture raised,
non corn and soy fed farm here in Southern California. One question I do have, because
I 100% agree with all of that is what needs to change? What would you say needs to change
to make this all more accessible to everybody?
And accessibility is part, you know, it's actually in the stores, you know, this caliber of food is in the stores.
And then, of course, for a lot of people that are much more price sensitive, how do we lower the cost without compromising the quality?
I mean, I only have like a few nuggets that I've heard from people, which is, you know, like, oh, the regulation is so tough on small farmers.
You know, I was a fan, you know, of Joel Salatin.
I watched The Lunatic Farmer and he complained about all the trials and tribulations that he had.
And I can imagine that's increasing the cost for a small farmer.
So I don't know if you've kind of had any insights, like, you know,
I don't want to say, what do we have to vote for? Because at the end of the day, you kind of have
to, but, you know, what do we have to vote for to lower the cost without compromising the quality
of this caliber food and then get it into the hands of more people? What has to change?
I want to let Ed answer that, but I i'm going to say is not about voting as much
but it's uh i would say first capitalism to answer your first question second answers capitalism
and then third is education i mean if people buy good products that are healthy if they're
educated and they buy those things the market will supply them right if you demand it the market will
supply it so we just have to demand these
foods and go buy the good foods. And the more profit there is in that market, the more that
capitalism will supply it. If people just keep buying shit and garbage, then we're not going to
have that kind of stuff. Absolutely. So the demand needs to increase, but with the demand increasing,
it's a supply-demand thing, right? Where if the supply is still small and people demand it, that only means price goes up.
And so is there economies of scale where you don't compromise the quality of the product
in farming, you know, and, you know, cattle as well, because I'm a big meat eater.
And so just because the demand goes up, Ed, I do, and this was a question specifically for Ed,
just because the demand goes up, is there a way that you then can save costs and lower the price without compromising the
quality? Yeah. I mean, one problem we have is the subsidies issue from the government. So they
subsidize the crap. Yeah, they do. I was going to say that is one issue. So people expect lower
cost. Yeah. And, and our, and our regener farmers, and I, you know, it used to be small farmers that were mostly focused on it,
but now it's large farmers or medium or large, let's say with 5, 6, 700, up to several thousand acres.
I have a buddy with about 7,000 acres in Indiana, and the one thing that's benefiting us is when we focus on the soil
microbiome we eliminate the need for like nitrogen fertilizers, compost, genetically modified seeds,
pesticides, herbicides. If we have a healthy plant it's not attacked by anything because there was a
misunderstanding that of course Big Ag and everything said that you have a healthy crop
insects are going to love it well that that doesn't make any sense at all because otherwise
the amazon rainforest would be a five-star restaurant it would have been devastated long ago
they'll only eat the diseased and dying so when we create healthy crops by understanding their true nutrition of a you know adding certain
minerals if they need it and focusing on the microbiome changes the economics that guy was
7 000 acres in indiana is saving a million and a half dollars he used to give to the chemical and
seed companies we're also getting into epigenetics with our seeds. So we're putting the proper biome and the proper nutrients in the seeds so they're healthy.
And all these things add advantage.
One of the problems is this has been a farmer's driven movement because big ag and big ag institutions, all of our land.
Monsanto is one of the most evil companies there is, I think.
Monsanto?
Yeah.
And, you know, they don't want to they don't
want to lose their market share you know there as i said my buddy used to spend a million and a half
dollars for those he doesn't spend any of that money anymore because he doesn't need any of that
crap anymore but they're still pitching to farmers that they do but slowly but surely the more
regenerative farmers we have around the country
so just by improving the soil structure all of a sudden we don't have flooding or drought
problems like most farmers do you get heavy rains or a drought situation and they go by
just like joel is called that lunatic farmer and all of a sudden they see how come your field
isn't flooded all mine are flooded out come you're
gonna have the drought problem how come you don't have the insect problem then all of a sudden they
want to instead of rejecting you at the coffee shop they all of a sudden want to sit with you
and find out and so and we're now across every crop and the other thing is we needed the data you know because big ag and stuff said you know
oh you can't produce any amount well the world record now for dry land non-irrigated corn
is by a regenerative farmer he shattered it he was a first generation farmer shattered the record
450 something bushel compared to 430.
That had taken 20 years since industrial ag had beaten that record.
So you know, and it takes the public getting educated and, you know, and having the data.
I mean, and that's why on the metabolomics, why we not only looked at whether there is
nutrient density difference and how big that is
and what is the factor the number one factor turned out to be the soil biome but also how can
we empower the consumer so we often say like with carrots you know you go to the store you got three
bags of carrots and that company that's got a lot of money, they have the pretty bag with the bunnies on it,
your kid says, let's get the bunny bag.
Well, if you can pull out your smartphone
or the market person can do it,
and that comes up a score of 20%
in the percentile of variation,
and the other carrots come up at a 40 or a 60,
all of a sudden that changes the power of the consumer
and that bunny variation is in active as a nutrient yeah so whether let's say beta carotene
you know in a carrot what is the variation when you when you know like with carrots i think the
initial study was over 350 carrots that were collected from everything from farmers markets to supermarkets to gardens.
We're sending in a bunch of data, including your soil sample, your practices, your variety, all the different variations to really get good data.
And when we did that, and as I said, they told us for years it'd be 10 or 20% different.
Well, it can be like with grapes, it was 18 to one. You know, my buddy with his citrus from his neighbor was eight times.
And that's the average of the beneficial nutrients, which phytonutrients are the nutrients from plants.
which phytonutrients are the nutrients from plants.
Phytochemicals are the polyphenols and all the antioxidants,
like with meat or seed oils.
It's omega-6 to 3 ratio.
Wait, so you're saying your neighbor, by just having,
in my understanding, just having a good soil,
had 18 times more nutrients or nutrient profile or density than the person next to him?
The citrus guy, he had the same basic CN-silting clay components in his soil.
Same weather patterns, same all that.
The only difference is the other guy uses pesticides and fertilizers and synthetic fertilizers and tillage and whatever herbicides
and this guy just supported his microbiome of his soil he supplemented some minerals and things you
know as his soil is improving because it it takes the microbiome to mine the nutrients with a
relation to the plants in fact it was just a few years
ago that we learned from dr. James white from Rutgers that plants actually are
ranchers and one of the things we always knew that they utilize fungi as an
entophyte that enters the plant brings nutrient to it we didn't realize the
importance of bacteria and the plants ranch bacteria around the roots and
take them in whole and and superoxide the nutrients on the cell and bring nutrients to it they can
sort out the beneficial bacteria and put it into the future seed and then they expel the rest out
to regrow through root hairs and which we don't see in industrial agriculture because there's no biological activity.
So, yeah, he was eight times on the average.
And some of the important things can be many more times.
And as I said, then the taste also becomes a factor.
So it's enjoyable to eat. so people will eat more fruits and
vegetables and enjoy it and the same with meat and the same with milk and the same with all the
byproducts we do it so our idea is like we say with fast food you know there's nothing inherently
wrong with something you can produce pretty quick you know you can go to a burger joint
and then cook you up of some food in a few minutes um the difference is what's in that bun are they
you know grains you were talking about grains you know we produce grains that are nutrient dense
we do like europe does which is a at least a limited amount of,
like producing with your fermenting process, which now we don't have happen as much
because it's more like your sourdough type grain process,
which can actually add flavor to it.
And us in our area, we either spray desiccants
or quick dry
it so that process doesn't happen.
So our grains, plus they put all kinds of chemicals.
There's
manufacturability in those buns.
Bleach. Plus they add sugar.
Oh yeah.
I remember recently there was Subway
bread was classified as cake,
I believe, in a European country. So I believe the
regulations for bread in Europe were a lot different.
But yeah, Subway bread is nasty, right?
Cindy talks so much trash on Subway bread.
But they are starting to make some changes.
Subway has responded to the demand and are making some changes and improving slightly.
Well, we're getting a bunch of the big food companies actually interested in regenerative
agriculture because they realized the industrial system degraded our soil, more and more chemicals,
more and more input costs.
You know, the sustainability of that process really got in question.
So they learned about regenerative and how we're actually restoring.
We don't have the erosion we don't have the the risks with the drought with the flooding all
that kind of stuff so you know it used to be big food and big egg had this
incredible marriage and now it's kind of getting broken up because you know big
ag just it's got a lot of problems.
And they thought with genetic modification and CRISPR and all that kind of stuff, they'd be able to solve the problems.
But we realize the problems are really not so much in the DNA.
It's the problems are in the epigenetics.
And we even find that with NVIDIA.
NVIDIA now has, they're into health care.
And they divided health into two categories, DNA and genetics, and then epigenetics,
purposely, so they could steer the funding. The big money for rare diseases, which they
never really saw, but they think they can, and there's big money in it is in all the gna dna changes
which have all kinds of side effects what they're not putting money in is the epigenetics because
dna and genetics is complicated but it's doable it's linear epigenetics is more complex and that's
what we have to deal with on the farm but the benefits in it are just
tremendous and so really they're putting billions of dollars in the wrong direction you know and we
found that was structured me with the plant-based protein isolate you know factory produce proteins
i mean they told us 10 years ago it was going to take over the world and there'd
be no more meat.
And that investment
has just collapsed.
Same with a lot of vertical egg.
Oh, yeah.
The Beyond Meat and these.
Oh, yeah.
I think maybe they were
overbought, but I mean, these things are
certainly still making positive progress.
I would say.
No, they're collapsing.
Uh, the, the consumption is dropping.
In fact, it's funny.
We have a lot of farmers now that, uh, just for the fun of it, they'll, uh, do a test with their chickens or their farm dogs or something.
And a buddy of mine, they had a barbecue.
So they went and they had a bunch of
good hamburger and one of the guys while he was at supermarket he bought some in pot couple
impossible burgers and put them on the grill and they did a test with their farm dogs and they've
done them tests with their chickens and i mean chickens will eat just about anything and it's
funny you throw a bunch of this stuff on the ground and they just
go over and sniff it and walk away because they know it's not. But why? I mean, don't chickens
eat grain, which is wheat? And isn't some of this beyond meat? Isn't that one of the main
ingredients is wheat and other things that they actually, chickens normally eat? Yeah, but it's
the process. It's creating it into a protein isolate
and everything that um really changes we don't we do the metabolomics work comparing like real
quality pasture-fed meat to uh impossible or beyond one is soy and the other is and plus the
impossible pat brown i mean i tried to tell him years ago, you're going to do this.
At least get away from the GMO, heavy chemical soy.
And he's like, nah, I can make more money if I stick with that stuff than if I go with something, you know, and it's consistently crappy.
And so, yeah, it's, it's.
Nicole, I.
Yes. consistently crappy and so yeah it's it's yes oh sorry i know nicole you were going to try to jump in but i i do want to double click on this a little more did you uh but did you want to jump
in i just wanted to add to the point of of uh like the vegan and vegetarian industry completely
collapsing the last time that i went to burning man in 2024, I was talking with the person who runs the kitchen for
our camp. And I was like, I'm just wondering if the trends that I'm observing are like, you know,
drawn from a flawed conclusion or drawn from a flawed data set. And she's like, sure. And I was
like, do you have data on who eats what from past years? And she was like, yeah, I have that data for the last 20
years. So I said, okay, well, you know, what is the proportion or like, are people turning vegan
vegetarian or are people turning the other way? And she said that the trend is undeniably people
turning away from veganism and vegetarianism. And that it happened, it began in 2020.
So I'm not an expert on this, like that's very interesting. And I, you can see a lot of good
reason for it. I mean, there's been a lot of, there's a lot of talk about this and there's a
lot of evidence on, you know, if you're just vegetarian, you're going to miss out on some
things, but there's also a lot of very smart people who are vegetarian still. And so there evidence on, you know, if you're just vegetarian, you're going to miss out on some things.
But there's also a lot of very smart people who are vegetarian still. And so there is definitely a movement there. I think something in the middle is probably the better balance for omnivores. But
anyways, that's not the important part. But my question is about these like either beyond meat
or meat substitutes. And so like many things,
when they first get hype,
like the dot-com bubble with the internet,
the crypto bubbles we've had,
and I think AI may experience a pullback here,
possibly, I don't know,
in terms of it's been maybe over-invested
and maybe short-term over-hyped
and then it gets maybe a pullback or maybe not.
Maybe AI is just a runaway train
that doesn't
follow these normal you know over investment cycles but that's kind of what it seems like
happened with some of these meat things and i'm a meat guy i love my meat um i did try some beyond
meat the other day uh visiting with my mom and she had bought some uh cindy says they're unhealthy
and nasty but uh i i was doing a little research on it and from what it looks like the science is advancing
whether you know people are investing as much because it over and got over invested or whether
people are consuming it because they over consumed it when it first came out and it was not healthy
stuff it was like generally a lot less healthy than real meat but the point is that as a science
i think this thing is there's legs i i, from just the limited research I've done.
Are you guys saying you think there's no legs to this?
It's not something we could solve in the future.
And is it even worth solving?
I mean, there's a lot of reasons people would say
we should try to have some alternatives to meat
for environmental reasons, for health reasons,
for cost reasons, for getting protein
to poor populations, whatever.
So a few questions there, anyone jump in? Is it worth solving? Does it have legs or is it dead in its tracks?
Well, it's just like recently with the food pyramid getting shifted. It was thought that
through Ancel Keys way back in the fifties, it saturated fat was was bad but they never were able to show why it was just you know
and of course all the seed oil companies and and the you know all that stuff you know the margarines
instead of butter you know is and it's cheaper to make and all that kind of stuff you know but
with more recent studies now we realize no it no, it actually, even Walter Willett, who's
been the nutritionist at Harvard that went with a low-fat diet for many years, even he's
turned around on that, and he's turned around, too, on the saturated fat.
The next thing that we're trying to get people to, including him, to understand is the omega-6
to 3 ratio, which are the Omega six to three ratio which are
the beneficial fats compared to the Omega sixes that cause inflammation and
you need some of both but it's the ratio so the Heart Association for years has
said you sure your Omega six to three ratio should be around four to one or
lower when we do good grass-fed meat it's anywhere from one to one salmon natural
salmon has always been sort of the gold standard around one to one well we're now able to produce
meat including chicken at one to one or two to one or something like that where your seed oils, your corn oils, your industrial grain fed meats,
and a lot of it's not very clean grain, it's grain byproducts and everything.
They'll be 8, 10, 20 to 1.
And the average diet, I think now in America, because of all the seed oils and our chips
and everything, is in the high teens for one and of course omega-6
causes inflammation and you know and that's been proven now and so when you're constantly
inflamed from these seed oils plus all the other things that are part of the process that are
questionable in our health um and then the other factor was you
know they made the cow evil you know first thing is it's cute so you shouldn't eat anything cute
which is kind of a strange approach and then it was that they're horrible for the environment
well we all and anybody who studies ecosystems realize the importance of animals and especially
ruminants in an ecosystem.
They're the number one thing that spreads that microbiology, you know, out in the wild.
That's why so many of our forests are dying because we've removed the animals from them,
especially in suburban areas.
And so the microbiome of the forest is dying and then
they become unhealthy and then they become diseased and so that's where you see all these forests and
certain tree types that are all being attacked by everything and our trees are dying so you know
it's just a lot of myths i mean it started about 15 or so years ago when they created these protein isolates.
And the whole, I used to go to global meetings, you know, with these people and they would say, well, if you can control the protein market with a few companies and some patents, you can control the food system.
you can control the food system. I mean, control the food, control the world.
I mean, control the food, control the world.
And so their, their eyes just blew up like, you know,
Bill Gates and those kinds of guys, you know,
to control the protein market.
And so they did everything they could to make everything in eating an animal
evil. And yet, you know,
all that was just to control the market and they talk very little about the health
of the product you know they always talk about the environment and eating cute animals the animal
rights people and of course you know our animals are treated they have a wonderful life and they
have one bad minute they don't even know what happened but and we care about
our plants too i mean we torture the soy that's grown for those plant-based meats for the peas
for the pea protein and those things are tortured out in the field and of course they're all the
chemicals and the pesticides and it runs off to our rivers and our lakes and the algae blooms and
the dead zones that are killing our fish and our and our shrimp and our lakes and the algae blooms and the dead zones that are killing our
fish and our and our shrimp and our clams and all that you know it's just horrible for the environment
i mean any coral reefs right all that stuff and you know when we can stop using that stuff i may
say we don't need any of these insecticides we're figuring out how to not
need herbicides and not till so we don't disturb our soil and kill that microbiome we have the
science now it's just academia big food advertising you know just makes it hard on us and but it's
happening I mean you don't hear about it much because we
don't waste our time trying to promote it to the public so much as because we know that we need to
increase our supply so that we can meet demand so what we work focus on is just working with farmers
all over the world you said increase supply to meet demand are you saying that there's a lot of
people demanding this stuff but you're having trouble keeping up with supplying it?
Yeah.
Well, and supply chains.
Supermarkets, you know, are controlled by a few big corporations, food corporations.
And so if they have a local farmer that, or local farmers or regional farmers submitting a regenerative product in
they're like it competes with them so and they compete for shelf space so they say well you
buying 500 different products from us you you start buying too much from these other sources
we're not going to sell you our the rest of our products they do the same thing to restaurants
restaurant supply companies of the food and so they force them to get rid of that product
and so a lot of it's you know just control over the food system we have four processors and two
of them are foreign and jbs is one of the largest meat processors in the world
and they're out of Brazil and that's a corrupt family that's been arrested and fined hundreds
of times and so you know it's that's why we're trying to get more local infrastructure
processing you know meat processing vegetable vegetable processing, fruit processing, distribution.
You have to rebuild the food system.
I'm sorry.
So do you see these things improving?
To me, now maybe it's just because I'm floating around in echo chambers or something, but
the people I talk to, the people I know,
the stuff I watch on YouTube, the stuff I read,
what AI is saying,
it feels like there's a very strong movement towards health
right now and over the last probably 10 years.
Do you think we're going in a positive direction?
Is there more funding for this?
Whether that's from, I mean, mostly just from, again,
the free market, people demanding these things, the more people that buy the stuff, the more money we can put
into these kind of better processes. And then the other question, if you want to weave it in,
is how much more do these things cost? If we're going with very healthy options,
you know, that are not as largely commercialized and maybe can't do billions of, you know, that are not as largely commercialized and maybe can't do billions of,
you know, acres or whatever, or just have a trillion cows stuffed in a box or, you know,
these things. How much more do these things cost? Is it 10% more premium we pay for good food? Is it
for good food? Is it 50% more, 100% more, triple? Well, actually the cost can come down
50% more, 100% more, triple?
because we're not spending all the money on inputs. And then you got to realize that in
the commercial food system, they're not paying for any of the externalities. They're not paying
for the health problems with crappy food. They're not paying for the health problems with crappy food they're not paying for
the contamination of our water system the dead zones in the gulf of mexico those externalities
aren't being paid for but those externalities are being dealt with by regenerative ag naturally
so we have and of course then again subsidies our guys aren't taking subsidies because they don't actually qualify for really any of them because they're doing everything very different and there's tight
standards so you know it the value plus the value of health i mean a farmer works a hell of a lot
cheaper than your doctor does or certainly your surgeon does in the drug companies.
You know, Zempic is, you know, originally $1,000 a month.
And it's because people ate crap.
Well, for a hell of a lot cheaper than $1,000 a month,
for all those people on diabetes, because everything is just packed with sugar and no nutrients.
What's that cost per month
i mean we just have to really analyze where is the real value we're drowning 4.7 trillion i think
is our health care costs right now and i talk to doctors i'm working you know a lot more in the
medical community and they're like you know 45 old doctors 40 or 50 years ago were mostly treating
people that fell off their bicycle or cut themselves or whatever and now it's you know
onslaught of kids and everything with all these autoimmune diseases diseases we never had
cancer is out of control diabetes is out of control weight gain depression all these are food related and so
we have to really analyze the whole benefits that we're getting and reevaluate that in our system
because we're gonna we're gonna pay in one way or the other for all these externalities that
big food and big egg are not being charged for
right now and so it's all in the value in other words too that let's say those oranges if it's
eight to one difference that means you have to eat eight oranges to get the same nutritional value
as one orange plus it's going to be more satisfying so is that cheap orange really cheap
you know they told you it was only 10 or 20 there's hardly a difference in fact they don't
even tell you there's any difference but when you actually look at it you're paying eight times
difference so that's where the economics yeah the range of vitamin C in oranges is pretty wide
depending on different oranges. Just as one example. Also, polyphenols in olive oil.
The range is completely... I mean, some might have 100 milligrams per kilogram of polyphenols
like oleacanthal, et cetera. And then you get a high polyphenol, cold press,
properly stored olive oil,
and it'll have 1,200 plus.
So instead of taking drinking four times
or five times the amount of olive oil to get the effects,
you do one fifth of that and you still get the effects.
There you go.
Plus you don't end up with all the extra carbs
and everything and sugars and things that by having to eat more and you're getting more of
what you really need. And you're being satisfied with that because your body isn't saying, listen,
I need some manganese. I need some boring, I need some zinc. You're not giving it to me. And what
do we do? We stopped by a convenience store and buy a donut and we're not getting anywhere. So we have someone with their hand up here. A guest just joined. I'll
let him jump up. Maybe he'll ask you a question or ask the panel or have a comment. But I do want
to say to your point, a lot of people say eating healthy is very expensive. I can't afford it. Got a big family, whatever. And I just
don't see it that way in my experience. I think I probably spend less on, if you combine all of my
food, all of my supplements, and I'm doing resveratrol and NMN, and I take a very high
quality olive oil every day and a bunch of stuff.
And I eat really healthy, like crazy healthy.
And I bet you I spend less on food and supplements and my gym cost and the sauna that I go to,
this part of my gym that I pay like 18 a month because I bought 24-hour fitness in bulk.
And I'm cheap where Cindy goes to like Equinox.
But anyways, my point is, if you want to be healthy,
you can do it for cheap.
I bet you I'm spending less on food a month than most people out there that are eating garbage.
I'm probably spending total on all of that,
food, supplements, everything,
and like eating a pretty elite diet.
I bet you I'm spending less than 600 a month
for my personal food.
And people spend easily $50 on Uber Eats and that garbage all the time.
I used to do it all the time.
I'm spending less now than I used to spend being a slob.
but yeah
But yeah, Hamad, go ahead and jump up.
Hamad
go ahead and jump up
thanks
sorry
Rock
is that
is that my saying
right
yeah
so thank you for allowing me
I know Ed
Ed has been
a friend for
a long time
I know him very well
he's a very well
very
intelligent man.
So I learned a lot from
him when it comes to regenerative
farming, which I totally
agree with, which
is something that I know Bill Gates
for example is one of the
guys that are trying to
convince people that cows are the
problem. Now we need to make meat.
We need to look at how beef is made
or how can we actually make manufacturing,
can we manufacture beef,
which is, I think, if that happens,
I think the 93% of the population in the United States that have metabolic dysfunctions will reach 100%, in my opinion.
Don't forget the bugs.
It's all about the bugs.
Yeah.
It's all about the bugs.
Exactly.
So, I think I have a different approach.
I mean, what you guys said is very important.
But just to add a little bit, maybe meat to the bones that
was mentioned, I think one issue here also is the minerals. When we talk about food, when we talk
about, I think globally, not just in the United States, globally, there's a misunderstanding when
it comes to minerals and, you know, people look at minerals separately.
So I go and I do my blood work and then I check, you know, vitamin D, calcium, whatever, zinc and all of that.
And I try to, I look at a range.
It's just food for thought.
Like they give you ranges like, you know, for example, from 5 to, I don't know, 50.
And then you look at your numbers
and you're like okay i'm 10 or 15 or whatever i'm in the middle all right so i should be okay
that is not right because um your body is not your body normally um is is works by percentages
so like for example vitamin a and vitamin d go together. Potassium and sodium, for example.
You've got...
G and K.
Exactly.
So it's always, it's a percentages and it's not a range.
Ranges were made by the medical institution, you know,
to make sure that people stay sick.
Because that's, you know, I mean,
well, we all know that there's no money in healthy people, right?
So how many of you have, just think about it,
how many of you like, you know,
you check all the marks when you check your vitamins
and it's like, yeah, I check this, check, check, check,
but you're still tired, but you still,
you know, your hemoglobin or iron level is very low or lower than normal.
You know, your oxidative stress is up the roof.
You're tired.
I think the issue here is I think I would have loved to see in the,
I would have loved to see more emphasis specifically coming from the United States about minerals
and how we can actually integrate minerals with, for example, insulin and A1C and LDL
and triglycerides and all that because they're all together.
and all that, because they're all together.
Like the problem is I see fragments.
The problem is I see fragments.
You know, people look at vitamins
and they look at the lipid, you know, panels
and they think, okay, this is different.
They're all connected.
You have to understand that your body is like a battery.
And if it lacks the minerals that you need,
then you're going to be sick.
I think 93% of all the Americans are metabolically, when it comes to the, sorry, yeah, metabolic,
they have what they call metabolic syndrome.
So the problem here is people may think that they're okay because they're not in the hospital.
They're not sick as what we
define sickness as being in bed and crying. They think just because they're not in bed
and having problems that they're okay. And you're not. You are walking people thinking you're okay
and you're not. You're sick. And part of this is vitamins. I heard someone talking about vitamin C.
Now, if you go to the pharmacy, you think you're getting vitamin C, which is not the case.
What you're getting is ascorbic acid, which will deplete your ceruloplasmin or basically your copper content, which will then cause your retinol.
But it is vitamin C.
It's just a type of vitamin C.
But you're saying it's an inferior type?
No, it's not just inferior.
It is a, I would call it a poison.
Because what it does, it actually goes to your ceruloplasmin,
which is basically your copper protein, which is basically a taxi.
Inside of that taxi is the copper.
And what it does, it causes that taxi to basically offload the copper.
Now you have unbound copper in your body.
Now you're sick.
You're tired.
Now what's going to happen is you don't have, because you need copper to control iron in your body. You know, what's controlling
iron is not iron, it's copper. It's all those enzymes. You know, if we go back and really try
to understand how your body makes blood, you know, then you will know that there's something called transferrin, which is a, basically, it's a protein that you're, it's basically your spleen, your bone marrow, and your liver.
Those three parts work together to make the blood.
And part of the whole process is your body is trying to get rid of 2.5 million red blood cells every
second.
And to do that, you have like these Peckman gobbling in your liver, sorry, in your spleen
so that the iron can go back to the bone marrow and make another 2.5 million red blood cells.
Now, transferrin and ceruloplasmin and basically all the enzymes that you need, ferrooxidase,
which allows the iron to get out of the cell through what they call the ferroportin,
ferroportin, like a doorway.
In order to open the door, you need ferrooxidase.
Ferrooxidase is anything with oxidase.
It means there's oxygen and copper.
Nobody talks about this.
So people are basically are in the dark.
They think just because they eat, you know, their veggies and their, you know, fruits and vitamin C supplements and zinc and vitamin D that they're okay.
You're not.
What I wanted to say is like,
just be aware of five different vitamins that I've always seen people use
and they don't know that they're harming their body with,
which is vitamin C, not because it's a vitamin C,
it's because it's an ascorbic.
So if you want to get a vitamin C, go try and buy a whole food C. There's something called whole vitamin C. It's because it's an ascorbic. So if you want to get a vitamin C, go try and buy whole food C.
There's something called whole food C.
And that is what your body needs, which is basically ascorbate.
It is not the ascorbic.
Just like they say, oh, B9 is folate.
It is not folate.
Folate is not basically, they say B9 is folic.
Sorry, they say benign is folic, sorry. They say folic.
So you have to understand that folic and folate are totally different.
Folic is a man-made product that will wreak havoc on your system,
specifically for the baby, like babies.
I know a lot of mothers probably are using these baby formulas that have folic acid.
What folic acid would do, it would actually,
there are studies that say that they're associated
with issues with autism.
So what I'm trying to say is if you want folate,
don't go and buy the man-made crab.
You have meat, meat, liver, just eat normal.
It has folate, okay?
Same thing with vitamin D.
Vitamin D, people use it and they don't know
that you need to have a specific portion between,
there has to be a ratio between A and D.
You need to maintain three to one.
So your vitamin D level might be 21
and your doctor is telling you,
no, I want 50, 60, 70.
I want you to go to 100.
And if you do that,
bear in mind you're going to compromise vitamin A.
And vitamin A, and I'm talking about the retinol,
not the beta carotene that they try to sell you.
The retinol, which is vitamin A,
if you increase vitamin D, you will deplete A.
And A, you need it because it is what makes retinol, which is vitamin A, if you increase vitamin D, you will deplete A. And A, you need it because it is what makes retinol.
It is what causes retinol to load the copper.
So you can actually take the copper to where it's needed in your body.
So I would say vitamin D, it's not even a vitamin.
It's a hormone, but they call it vitamin D.
Anyway, so vitamin D, calcium, zinc, all of that, vitamin C because it's an ascorbic.
You know, now people are confused.
They don't know where to do or what to do or what to, you know, they think, you know,
that the new, I mean, I like the new regulation, you know, the new changes, modification about
the food bearments.
I think it's a one step towards achieving the goal, but I don't think we're even 20%
there.
I mean, you're probably 5%.
I mean, you're probably 5%.
You've just like said, okay, processed food is bad.
Stop using, you know, a seed oil and all that stuff and processed meat and, and, and,
and, okay, which is really good.
But I think it's still, there is a, one thing that really pisses me off is about the 10%
saturated fat.
They're still thinking that saturated fat is responsible for causing clogged arteries,
which is a baloney.
Who did that? Ansel Keys, thank you very much.
Since 1955, you know, he gave that recommendation to President Eisenhower.
And what do you think happened to him?
He had seven more strokes.
Nobody really knows this stuff.
And then he went on his whatever expedition where he tried to show that yeah i've gone to 15 different countries to show that saturated fat was not something that they did
this has come up a lot uh the saturated fat thing someone else on the show said similar earlier and
i hear this a lot but every time i try to find evidence for pro or against it,
there seems to be a lot of evidence against saturated fat having too much in your diet.
Not against having fat in your diet. We need fat. There's great fats, right? Olive oil and
avocado and others. But there is, I mean, saturated fat is, I think, pretty clearly associated with LDL, and LDL seems to be clearly associated, or it's absolutely associated.
Is it the cause or is it correlated?
I don't know if that's as clear, but with all the work they've done with statins, which I don't recommend statins normally to anyone, but hold on.
But statins do, on average, make people live way longer than people not taking statins.
Now, is that because they're
just eating so shitty normally that they have to take this thing that aggressively lowers their
ldls or what i mean how do you explain why statins do they make people live longer if you've had
especially if you've had a heart attack they say even if you are like i tried to tell my dad
hey you know he had a heart attack and i'm on um a medium aggressive statin i I think. And I told him, well, maybe we
can get your cholesterol down by just getting you really healthy, getting you on a good diet and
good lifestyle and these things. And then we get you off the statins. Well, I dug into it and
doctors generally agree, even if you get healthier, this is what they say. Now, again,
it might just be because they're going off averages and people are just too lazy to actually stick
with a good diet.
But the statins seem to have like really, really strong evidence on not just on the LDLs, but some other areas that seem to be making people live a lot longer with them.
I thought that was kind of.
I will respond to that.
I mean, I'll tell you the whole story.
And I think it's very simple once we understand it i think statins to me honestly if i had a dad or if i had someone that is dear to me that is having some issues um yes if they're in
those critical situations where they're really um in a bad situation the likelihood like they
already had a heart attack once right yes exactly i i would do that. But remember, you're trying to solve the root cause.
Now, the problem with statins is basically what it's doing. It's going to your liver,
because your liver is the one that's making 80% of your cholesterol. 80% is produced by your liver.
So what they do is they go to your liver and they basically start reducing the amount of cholesterol that your body or your liver is making.
Okay, fine.
But is that the problem?
What is, I mean, I wanted to basically talk about LDL because a lot of people, I see that all the time.
A lot of people look at LDL when they see LDL is higher than, I think it's 150.
If it goes above 100.
No, some people are, so you want to be,
there's different recommendations,
but some are under 100 and some are under 130.
And then some people, if you want to reverse,
and there's evidence for this,
if you want to reverse your plaque.
So generally the idea, and I don't know if this is accurate,
maybe there's other factors, maybe it's just correlation but if you are at about a hundred then you are neither growing
nor reducing your plaques is what they say and what ai agrees with but if you are below if you
get to 70 then you are you are slowly reducing the plaque buildup if you are over a hundred then you
are slowly gaining plaque do Do you agree or disagree?
I disagree completely. Let me tell you why. LDL, actually, when you say LDL,
low-density lipoprotein, basically LDL is not the bad cholesterol that a lot of people think.
Because LDL, when you say, and this is the problem, when they say LDL is, let's say, 180,
what does that mean? That doesn't tell you anything. Because when you look, and this is the problem, when they say LDL is, let's say, 180, what does that mean?
That doesn't tell you anything. Because when you look at LDL under the microscope, there are
actually two types of LDL. You've got the smaller particles and you've got the bigger ones.
There's probably a lot more than two if you break it down, right?
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, mainly, there's the ones that causes the oxidizing on the endothelial wall, which is the harmful one.
And then there's the bigger one, which basically doesn't cause any problem.
What I think most people need to know is how do I know which one is which or what causes the bad ones and what causes the non-harmful one. So basically, because you're eating saturated fat,
because you're eating meat and, you know,
butter, grass-fed butter, ghee, all of that stuff,
what's going to happen is your LDLA
or the non-harmful, basically, part of LDL will go up.
And that's why if you go on keto
or if you even go carnivore,
you will notice that your LDL will go up.
But that shouldn't bother you
because if you actually go and check using the NMR,
which is the, you know, if you basically,
it's more like an x-ray or basically you want to know
which type is which.
You will notice that 90% of the higher value of that LDL
is coming from the non-harmful one, which means you're okay.
Okay, but so with that being said, just really quick to pause on that.
I agree with you, but I think it's, again, going to general.
A lot of these recommendations they make are for the general population.
And the general population is you're lucky enough to get someone to go do a basic cholesterol
test where they check total cholesterol, HDL, LDL, and then the calculated ratio of those
and these things.
If you really, you know, some people will go, and like myself, you can go further and
get a better picture.
So I would say if your LDL is high, it doesn't necessarily mean you're in trouble or it's bad,
but it means maybe you should explore further and look more into this.
And then that's when you check the particle sizes, your LDL particle memory.
No, no, no.
LDL small, your LDL medium.
Actually, there is an easier way.
I'm sure you guys know Dr. Robert Lusting.
So basically, there is a way where he actually said,
you don't actually need to go and do this NMR test.
But there's like a rough calculation that you can get from your normal lipid,
which would tell you whether you have problems or not,
which basically you take your triglyceride and you divide it by your HDL.
And if it's lower than 1.5,
then you really know that the higher LDL is coming from particle A,
which is normal.
You see what I'm saying?
I always tell people this is the same.
Well, and also you can divide with HDL, LDL, the same thing.
Same concept with that ratio.
Absolutely.
So what I wanted to say is if I had someone who's, because I have a lot of friends that come up and they show me their blood work and the doctor says, hey, you need statins. And I look at it and it's like the ratio is like barely two.
to do is try to cut down on carbs because what causes those small particles, you know,
basically causing the problem is your processed sugar or carbohydrates or seed oil. Basically,
what causes your triglycerides to go high? If you really ask this question, because it's really
fundamental. If you show me someone that has a triglycerides lower than 100,
HDL more than 60,
I don't, well, one more thing.
Your fasting insulin has to be less than six.
If you give me these three, only these three numbers,
I can tell you with 99% chance that this guy is super healthy.
You don't even need to look at the other ones
because your fasting insulin,
which I know most of the insurance companies
or hospitals, they don't do this test.
I think because, I don't know why,
because they say it's not covered under your insurance.
I know a lot about what's going on even in the States.
I think they only do the A1C,
which is okay, I have no problem with it,
but it doesn't really tell you much about inflammation.
If you want to know if your body is inflamed or not,
then you want to check your home IR,
which is the home state.
It's basically the insulin resistance test,
which is the ratio or the fasting insulin.
You also want to do the CRP.
If you check those, you'll notice that whenever triglycerides over HDL is lower than 1.5,
normally this guy has a low fasting insulin.
Sorry, say that again.
It's triglyceride over what?
Triglycerides over HDL, the high-density lipoprotein. If it's lower than 1.5, what that means is you're...
It just means I don't care about LDL.
LDL, just throw it in the garbage.
Total cholesterol in the garbage.
Basically, what that means is that you...
If it's less than 1.5,
then it just means that your body has zero...
Almost no inflammation
Which means your fasting insulin is can you can I pause you there then what so my triglyceride over HDL is 0.88
My HDL is high at 68 my triglycerides were 153
I got them down to 60 through healthy eating so I you know over
dropped them in half and that got that
ratio strong, but it kind of contradicts what you said. Cause my, my HSCRP, my high sensitivity,
high sensitivity C reactive protein, which is the inflammation test was 1.9. And apparently that
should be under one. So I do have some inflammation. That's very weird. What's your fasting insulin? Remember I saw it all?
I don't know.
I only know my HbA1c was 5.3.
I don't know my fasting insulin.
And I'll tell you a thing here.
Seriously, because...
And my glucose fasted.
I don't know if that helps you.
It was like 80 to 90.
That doesn't mean anything.
Because the A1c is the 90-day average of basically your fasting insulin, sorry, fasting glucose.
So tonight, for example, if you ate something really bad, like high sugar or whatever, and in the morning you fasted, let's say, 10 hours and you want to do your fasting glucose, you'll notice it's very high.
That doesn't tell me anything.
That's why they go for the HbA1c
because it's a 90-day average.
But the problem is,
this is the glycation of sugar
to the red blood cells.
It doesn't tell me how,
it still doesn't tell me anything
about inflammation in your body.
What does tell a lot about inflammation
is your fasting insulin, which...
But what about the HSCRP?
The HSCRP, yeah.
HSCRP is also a very good number.
It should be, actually, it should be,
in my book, it should be 0.5 or less.
Ooh, I like that.
It gives me a stronger goal to hit.
Yeah, mine actually is 0.1.
Mine is 0.1.
Wow.
Yeah, my LDL-
Was it ever high?
No. My LDL is- Have you always Wow. Yeah. Was it ever high? No.
My LDL is…
Have you always…
So ever since you've been doing your blood work, have you always eaten pretty healthy?
I'm just trying to see the correlation between lifestyle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I actually started, I would say, eight years ago because I was having a problem with my weight.
Although I'm a runner.
I run a long distance, which thank God I'm no longer running that many distances.
But I wasn't including any strength working or I wasn't doing any resistance workout.
I wasn't going to the gym to lift weight.
And now I really know that this is really important.
It would help also with your inflammation because it will reduce.
It's like a heat sink or sugar sink,
basically, when you have muscles. That's why you need muscle, okay? So, I started first with keto.
Keto helped me lower my weight, but then problems with keto is you will need to take supplements.
Specifically, you can't live on keto.
You need, because where are you going to get your carbs?
If you're actually doing lifting or if you're running
or, you know, you start getting cramps.
So basically, I went from keto to carnivore.
But like I would say, I don't know if I would call it carnivore.
Maybe it's not clean carnivore.
I would call it modified carnivore because I actually include a little bit of raw honey.
A little bit, not much.
Not all the days.
It's just the days that I know I'm going to be doing some workout.
The other thing is I use creatine.
Very, very, very important.
How many grams a day?
Just actually, sometimes I use five. Sometimes I I use ten I know some people use 20 I mean I was just about to quote
her no no no she's she's really good I love her it's just it's just my problem
is I started my weight went a little bit because you know you know because it's
really stick to the water and then basically water retention oh come on you're you're way too sophisticated to care
about that water weight no no but but seriously um i think if i were to tell people uh please
check these five five or six uh markers believe me guys like if you have a you know pencil and
paper i would say first of all,
check your fasting insulin, make sure it's less than six micro international per milliliter.
That is a very, I would say this is like, this is the most important test ever. And it pisses me off
why doctors or why medical institutions,
whatever you want to call it,
why they wouldn't do that every, let's say, six months.
They only do the HbA1c, which I think is crap.
Because I even asked the doctor, I said,
why are you not testing for fasting insulin?
You know what his answer was?
And I know it's pathetic.
He said, oh, we only test fasting insulin if you reach 6.2.
And I'm like, wait a minute.
But if I reach 6.2, wouldn't you think that it's already bad?
Why would I go and test my fasting insulin?
That is so dumb.
I want to test it way, way like…
I don't fully understand.
You're saying if you get 6.2, it's bad,
meaning you do trust the A1C to some extent.
But are you just saying that fasting insulin is an earlier marker?
Or what do you...
Yes, thank you very much.
Yes, absolutely.
You're right.
Basically, if you want the most predictive, most sensitive marker,
like basically, I'll give you an example.
Let's say someone goes and does the blood work and his fasting...
You know, by the way, maybe...
Can we pause actually?
I feel like we're getting pretty in the leads here and i just want to make sure that everyone else
is following along and that we're not getting and if any of these terms we might want to explain some
of these terms even uh is anyone uh any speakers or we can't see comments from the audience because
twitter's broken today but is everyone following along should we pause any anyone want to jump in
and ask any questions like what is hBA1C or any of this stuff?
My only point is that we're almost at the four-hour mark.
So I'm good as long as you're good.
But that's all I want to do as well.
Yeah, no problem.
If anyone wants to hop off, feel free.
I'm enjoying this conversation a lot, so I'll stay on a little bit longer.
We have been planning to get off for a while,
but we're getting into some really important weeds here.
This is all stuff that most...
Sorry, this is all stuff that's really good to me.
So probably a lot of people, I'd say.
So like the I explain like I'm five, maybe.
Okay, cool.
You know, but this is really cool.
I like it.
Amon, I wanted to let you know,
if it's okay with you, of course,
that I have added you to our speaker sheet for the episode
so that we can invite you back.
And the same goes for you, Ed.
Sure.
Oh, sure.
I would love that.
I think, yeah, I just, I don't want to, I know,
like you guys said, four hours, that's a lot.
So I think I just want to quickly say whatever I need to say so I can let people go because i'm also i'm not in the states i'm you know it's
actually almost i think not at 10 30 or almost 10 44 over here anyway so um what i wanted to say
hey this is the best way to spend it so i'm assuming it's your friday night yes it is my
so where so i can so where most people are out drinking this is like uh whenever
whenever like friday night comes and i'm you know at in the sauna at the gym for my friday night or
you know working out um i it always isn't it it just feels good to know you know normally i might
be out having a drink and instead i'm you you know, doing this kind of stuff. So, uh, appreciate you being here on your Friday night. No, no, no problem. So what you just said,
is it a predictive marker? I loved what you said. It's actually, you, you got it right. It is
the reason why I love fasting insulin because let's say, and I was just going to give an example,
let's say someone went and did a test for HbA1 and it came out let's say 5.3 okay and then at
the same time they did the fasting insulin and it was let's say it was six all right so now in six
months I they did it again what you will notice is that your HPA1C might be like, let's say instead of 5.3, now it's 5.4,
which most people will think, ah, I'm still okay.
But then you go and check your fasting insulin.
It's no longer 6, it's probably 11.
It's so sensitive.
So you would know that you're actually in your way to become insulin resistant.
So then you wake up and you're like,
hey, this lamp goes off and you're like,
okay, I have a problem.
What am I doing over here?
So then you can actually take actions before it's too late.
If I only-
That makes a lot of sense.
I'm just thinking it through, help me.
So, okay, when you do HbA1c, for those who
don't know, it's a common test. It's included in a lot of health insurances. And this is a really
cool actually invention that a medical kind of advancement where they figured out, hey,
you could have a continuous like glucose monitor, or you could be pricking yourself in your finger
every day, you know, for a month or
three months to try to see what your average is. But then they figured out, wait a second,
there are red blood cells, I believe, or maybe it's a certain type of red blood cell or whatever
it is. There's some kind of blood cell that it ingests based on your sugar, your glucose or blood
sugar levels. It like makes up, it's kind of like when you go check carbon dating or layers
of like sediment in the earth and you could see what happened in the earth millions of years ago.
So it's like that for the blood. So your blood cells ingest like some sugar or something and
the higher the sugar, the more you can see what these blood cells kind of have inside of them.
And these blood cells live for three months. So when you look at what the makeup of this blood cell, I could be explaining this a
little off, but when you look at what's the, these blood cells, it basically tells you what you're
at. They can get a pretty good idea of what your average blood sugar was for three months without,
with only doing one test. How do you get an average with one test? Pretty cool technology.
What you're saying is checking your fasted insulin, which is the real problem with diabetes
is, uh, and like some of this metabolic stuff is that it's so maybe, maybe you're why that
makes sense to me just in my head here and correct me if I'm wrong, is that your blood
sugar might stay relatively okay.
But what's happening is your body's having to produce a lot more insulin because you're becoming insulin resistant so you're having to produce a lot more insulin
your sugar your sugars aren't out of whack yet but your your body already knows hey we're not
getting the response we need so we're pumping out all this insulin so your insulin levels will be
higher am i imagining that right bingo bingo that's it you got it i feel like i stayed in
the holiday inn last night because i feel like i'm certified and i'm a doctor at this and i'm
not kidding like that was a whole bunch of knowledge bro that you really dumbed down for
somebody like myself that that it makes sense to me now and i appreciate you so much for that
sense to me now and I appreciate you so much for that.
Absolutely. So and I would I was just gonna say six tests that
I always tell people, please check those six tests, because
they're so important. And I like I said, number one is the
fasting insulin. Number two is your triglycerides. Number three
is your HDL. And you know why because we want to divide this by
that. And then what else?
Your uric acid.
Because your uric acid tells me how efficient the conversion of energy inside the cell.
Like when you eat food and then it gets converted into sugar.
And then the insulin takes that sugar inside the cell.
So you can actually burn it.
And at the same time, you know, make energy
and get rid of the sugar
in your blood.
Is this on any metabolic panel?
Like what's,
is this on your analysis
or where would this be?
EMP or CBC?
Where is it?
I think uric acid is basic.
I think,
to be honest, I don't remember on which test it is.
Okay, I'll dig into it. But yeah, continue on and then I'll dig into it.
Yeah, so uric acid should be another important thing. I'm just going to list them. So I said
fasting insulin, triglyceride, HDL, uric acid. You also want to know your, there's something called, well, hemoglobin, hemoglobin,
which is 70% of the iron in your body. Hemoglobin should be 12.5 for ladies and 13.5 for men.
Very important. Very, very important. That's number five. Number six is the copper and its
protein. So basically your copper, serum copper has to be close to 100. Anyway,
whatever it is, let's say you just test it because remember it's about ratios. So copper,
serum copper, whatever it is, divided by ceruloplasmin. Ceruloplasmin is the copper protein.
So once you, so basically it's almost seven.
Let's call them seven maybe.
And what you do is you divide triglyceride by HDL.
Make sure it's less than 1.5.
That's number one.
Number two, make sure your uric acid,
if you want methodical, like the best, the most,
what is it, the most ideal number is four, 4.0.
So if someone has 5 and they think,
hey, I'm okay, I'm only off by 1.
No, you're sick.
Why?
I always give this example.
It's like your temperature,
your body temperature is 98.6, right?
So guess what happens if it's off by 4%?
You're in bed, 4%.
But if you compare 4 to 5, that's 25%.
You understand where I'm coming from?
So basically, don't believe the ranges.
Whenever they give you ranges, ranges for sick people.
Okay, so then what about copper divided by ceruloplasmin?
You need that to be 3.
And typically, your copper, serum copper is around 100.
Your ceruloplasmin typically is around 30.
So 100 divided by 30 is 3.333.
So that's why you need the ratio to be 3.3333.
Now what you will notice is whenever the ratio is 3.3333,
your hemoglobin is actually accurate and great.
And at the same time, what also is great,
your uric acid is actually on the dot.
If you check what I just said,
you know, these seven items,
I would tell you with 99% accuracy,
you are superhuman or super, you know,
basically superhuman.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to say.
And you'll never get sick. Well, let's zoom out super, you know, basically superhuman. Yeah, that's what I wanted to say. And you'll never get sick.
Well, let's zoom out and let people know, like, because I think for a lot of people,
they're like, what the fuck are you talking about all this stuff?
How do I even know any of this?
How do I figure this out?
Where do I even start?
So there's different ways you could do this.
If you have health insurance, a lot of these, not a lot, maybe half of what he said, but
A lot of these, not a lot, maybe half of what he said, but there's all kinds of other good tests too.
there's all kinds of other good tests too.
But maybe like, okay, you could go and you could just request them from your doctor.
Even if you have no problems, these are just like preventative stuff.
And actually a lot of insurances do cover these because it saves them money if you are doing preventative stuff.
So unlike maybe pharmacies or a lot of the medical industry that want you to be sick,
as someone mentioned earlier, because they make money by treating you when you're sick,
actually insurance companies do not make money by treating you when you're sick. And because of all
these regulations on them where they can't do like pre, you know, whatever conditions, pre,
what's it called? Conditions? Where you already are sick and they won't give you insurance.
But anyways, because of all that.
Pre-existing conditions.
So the insurance companies actually want you to be healthy,
believe it or not, because they don't want to treat you.
They don't want to have to spend money treating you.
So they actually, a lot of people don't know,
you could go to a lot of insurances and they'll give you free gym pass or discounted gym passes.
They'll pay for preventative diagnostic tests like CMP, which is complete metabolic, uh,
comprehensive metabolic panel. They'll let you do, um, like a kidney profile, uh, test. They'll let
you do a basic cholesterol test and you could pay a little more, uh, and get like a full panel. Um, they'll, I think they'll do some basic hormone stuff. Um, I don't know. I don't have
health insurance. I just pay for all this stuff on my own. Um, but to get a really good readout
of all stuff, um, by doing, I'll just name these panels quickly. If you want to write them down,
this was, uh, you know, it took me a lot of research talking to AI for months before I decided to do these things. But here's the panels that I did.
And from Quest Diagnostics, which is all over America and very easy to access and very fast
to go in. It's like you're in there for 15 minutes. They take your blood, you take a piss
and you're out of there. Really easy. But it is men's hormone test panel. I did expanded. This gives
you more readings than just total testosterone. You're getting total tests, free tests, bioavailable
tests, sex hormone binding globulin, albumin, estradiol, prolactin, getting all that stuff.
And so between all the tests I did was like $630. Okay? So I'm going to name the other ones now. Advanced heart health panel with ApoB.
Kidney profile test expanded.
And through Quest, that actually includes urinalysis,
and it includes comprehensive metabolic panel,
which is a really important one.
And it includes, I think, complete blood count.
I might have done that one separately.
But anyways, the total cost is what I said. Then for fun, you can check your blood type. I might've done that one separately, but anyways, the total cost is
what I said. Then for fun, you can check your blood type is like 40 bucks. If you don't know
that, probably good to know. And then HbA1c is a separate test for like 40 or 50 bucks.
But those all total was like 630. So if you have no health insurance, fret not for 600 and something
dollars, you can go in once a year and test these things.
These do not have everything, though, that Hamad had said here.
So I'm going to look into those.
It did not have fasting insulin.
I'm looking through it, trying to see if it has uric acid.
It does have some forms of hemoglobin, so I'm not sure.
When you say hemoglobin, I have on CBC, I have my hemoglobin,
and I think it might be also in the urine one, just seeing if there's leaking hemoglobin.
But are you talking about blood hemoglobin on CBC?
Yes.
It's actually, they'll give you four, I think four, three tests for when it comes to the iron.
They'll give you the hemoglobin.
They'll give you something called serum iron.
And they'll give you serum ferritin
so you actually need these three but remember 70 of your iron in your blood is basically hemoglobin
so if your hemoglobin let's say as a man is around somewhere around 13.5 you're okay as a woman it's 12.5 as a minimum you're okay um and then serum iron
the other one uh should be 100 for women and for men should be 100 is serum iron the same um just
looking at the range of numbers so i have a bunch of different stuff here i have hemoglobin, I have hematocrit,
also I have mean cortal volume MC, which is mean RBC iron.
Is that one of the ones you're talking about?
No, no, no, no.
I'm just giving you the most important one,
which is basically hemoglobin, the ferritin,
and then the serum iron.
And basically hemoglobin is basically,
this tells you how much iron in your blood basically to carry oxygen.
So the more, basically if it's lower than, like I said, if it's lower than 13.5 for men,
then it means your body is not circulating enough iron in your blood
to carry more oxygen,
which means that your immune system now is going to go down because
you don't have enough oxygen. It goes on actually with the RBC. There's another test called RBC,
red blood cells. Basically, these two go together. So whenever your hemoglobin is good, 13.5,
you'll notice that your RBC is somewhere around 5.4 or 5.4, something like that.
But the other one, which is the serum iron, is totally different. Serum iron is basically telling
us the efficiency, how good is the circulation? Do you have any iron stuck to the tissue or is
it in the blood? Because what you want, you want your iron in the
blood. You don't want it stuck. Like most people who have so-called anemia, okay, they think that
they don't have iron. That's why they go and take tablets to actually increase iron, which is the
worst thing that they want to do. Because basically, the reason why your iron is low,
it's not because it's evaporating
or it's somewhere we don't know what it is.
No, it just means that you don't have enough copper
to activate that iron to put it back into blood.
So what happens is it gets...
Because we don't lose iron, right?
Iron is one of the things we don't really lose.
Absolutely.
Unless you're having your period or something.
But hey, we are really getting into the weeds here.
and it is your Friday night.
So why don't we,
I think we can pause it here.
I'm also going to DM you cause I want to continue this conversation with you.
And thanks for all the great knowledge.
and I,
I might even,
if you're okay with it,
send you some screenshots,
some of my blood work and see if you have any recommendations.
I really appreciate all that.
but,
yeah,
maybe we could do a couple
just light, quick topics
and then we'll call it a wrap here, guys.
Does anyone have anything light?
We have someone requested.
I'll let you up here real quick.
We're gonna cut this off in like five minutes, guys.
We've been here four hours.
We all got work to do.
Some of us, it's Friday night, like I'm not here.
But yeah, anyone have any light topics about health they want to talk about without us getting so deep in the weeds? Sure. Yeah, I was a double majoring honors
student when my state-funded pharmacy school attempted to murder me when I was about to
graduate. I had my foot in the door to work at GlaxoSmith and Klein with a starting salary of $212,000 a year back in, what was it, 2017? And like I said, I had two weeks left to graduate,
and then SIUE attempted to kill me, and I've been healing from Morgellons turbo cancer ever since
then, and it got worse for like seven years years and I've only had like two years to
be able to heal from it but money's a huge factor and I have a lot of powers that be that are working
to cause adversity for me and it's been difficult that Ross to land TV guy he died a few months ago
from cancer he's like got a very similar
condition that i have i just like i'm a little more mindful i'm taking care of myself i'm not
just like listening to the stupid ass doctors that tell me to lay down and like die like i'm
a little more like proactive like i actually understand like the benefit of essential oils
and ayurvedic medicine and stuff like that like
i listen intently and i make my own decisions i just i realize there's a war on consciousness i
mean what does government control mind government you know like it's a war on consciousness and so
the health care system is more of like an insurance death care system death fraud care
you know i mean oncology is like a huge scam
and like people need to study the pancreas.
That was one of the things,
that was actually one of the productive things
that Barry and I were talking about.
Barry being the Disney animator
that invited me here to Thailand two years ago.
Okay, well, I wanted to get us on some lighter topics and that went in the other
direction, but yeah, we only have a surface here. I can get into detail. No problem. So we only have
a few minutes here, guys. Maybe we'll, let's see here. Here's an important one, I think, vitamin D, it's, there's a lot of people
deficient in it, there was something, so an interesting study Rhonda Patrick talked about,
was that when they looked at Indonesia, some studies in Indonesia, 90, it was like something
like 93 or something percent of the people that died of COVID were vitamin D deficient,
and interestingly, you get vitamin D from walking in the sun and you can take it too
if you don't get enough sun.
Generally, try to get some sun, but if you can't get some vitamin D, probably better
than nothing.
Definitely better than nothing.
But anyways, interestingly, they told us don't go in the sun during COVID.
Don't go outside, stay in your house.
And most of the people dying,
at least in that Indonesia study, were people low in vitamin D. So definitely recommend you
guys get some sun. I feel like if I talk to 10 friends, nine out of 10 don't get any sun,
right? They're just in their house or they're at work all day. Some will say, oh no, I get sun
when I'm driving. You're barely getting any sun when you're driving so get some real sun i live in the indo-pacific now i'm
afraid to go outside because i just had my my condo infiltrate last week and i'm pretty sure
they took pictures of my password book and i've had to move my ordinal assets and stuff to new
wallets uh but i've been having a lot of weird phone calls about security vulnerabilities. So that's kind of a confirmation to me more so than just the rubber band
that was broken that I keep outside,
keep on my desk,
like outside my door.
So like,
okay,
well,
if you're not having people following you around,
I am trying to,
I'm saying for those who,
for those on the,
on the,
on the Twitter spaces who are not being
followed around,
get some sun. Get out
and get some sun. It's a good thing.
You need it.
Yeah.
Sorry, your name is
Message Test Film.
My name is Colton Bromel,
but I'm being heavily censored.
I had to get a new phone number just to be able to speak with you here now.
The last two weeks were very difficult.
Yeah, Ledger had a huge...
I had a kind of light topic.
What I originally joined to talk about was when you guys were talking about nicotine.
And I just had something quick to add about it.
So I vape personally.
I quit smoking, I think, two or three... Well, actually, more than that, four years ago. And I just had something quick to add about it. So I vape personally.
I quit smoking, I think, two or three, well, actually, more than that, four years ago now.
And, you know, vaping isn't safe per se, but, you know, it's a lot safer than smoking.
And here's what I understand about smoking versus vaping. So the temperature of vaping liquid is around
100 to 250 degrees centigrade. So that's an aerosolized vapor. Cigarette smoke is around
400 centigrade. So that's like burning your lungs. It literally scorches your lungs.
So vaping doesn't do that. And that's like the advantage that I see, like with vaping, like, you know, pick your poison, I guess, if you use patches or the pouches or.
But I don't think vaping is as dangerous, like when done proper, when done safely as people, you know, claim.
And that's why say i'll second that
uh i don't vape uh i have in the past you know you know tried it on and off but um i'll say
i think when people try to say vaping's worse than cigarettes i think that's an insane claim
uh cigarettes are like the worst thing on the planet, like statistically millions of people die from
cigarettes. It's crazy. Well, it's a lot of things. It's the combustion of the actual
combustion releases because carcinogens and stuff. There's also like hundreds of other
ingredients and things made when you smoke them. Um, I'm not saying vaping is healthy.
It is not, but it is not as bad as cigarettes
i smoke weed all the time i can smoke bong back to back to back to back and not cough at all
if i put a little tobacco i'll be coughing for a week yeah bro yeah well it's carcinogenic you
know it's just that it's just basic biology biochemistry there's uh you know
pick your poison though there's certain medicines that may be uh you know fun to use um but sometimes
uh are discouraging you know i'm i'm fighting the spiritual wickedness in high places and i think
there's uh with one of the controllers controlling, you know, we got these ICE agents
like kidnapping
people and exposing
what the government's all about.
Just like kidnapping people and
arresting them and shooting them in the face.
It's like what the government's all about.
it's really sad.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Some of the stuff you said sounds a little wild, to be honest,
but I'll agree with you that I don't trust the government.
Reality is pretty wild, my friend, is it not?
It's just good to be a wise, learned student.
Observe your environment.
I get this. good to be a wise uh learned student you know observe your environment you know like i i uh
i i know i get this you know bitcoin ordinals yeah you know how to like look up the the ordinal
like ordi scan or or dot io check check out this one i wrote this in 2014. it actually took me two years i wrote this from 2012 to 2014
and then i inscribed it on bitcoin a decade later in 2024 it's um if you look up like or.io
slash 60540984 that's my proclamation it's a little one text uh one page text inscription
i wrote that right out of high school we're all products of our environment you know
so like just tell me a little bit about where i'm coming from who i am oh yeah yeah man it's hard to
transmit my message sometimes i think it's a good way to start off
transmit my message sometimes i think it's a good way to start off
reality is often stranger than fiction that's what yes yes yes yes yes yes all right guys so ed
and hamad thanks so much uh also uh wolf came up if you want to say something quickly wolf
and uh then if anyone uh ed appreciate you coming on again. Hamad, also thanks, Nerd Girl, for putting this together. Good to see you, John and Darren as well for always helping produce the show and hosting. Thanks everyone so much.
we end we went four hours i say one thing i have i've proven how um the litecoin price has been
artificially inhibited uh and a large part due to attacks upon me targeted attacks i've even gone to
a business here in phuket and the minute that i arrived the power grid turned off in the district
and it remained off for about an hour and 45 minutes until, and I waited there
to wait till it turned back on. This is again, another targeted attack just to liquidate me in
the market because the business I went to was a fiat to crypto exchange. And I was just trying
to add money to my account of which I ended up losing. And it's been a rough last few weeks.
Like I'm telling you guys, like I had to get a new phone number
just to be able to talk with you here on Twitter.
I made about a dozen.
You're saying that you were going to get,
you were trading,
you were going to get liquidated.
You went to some place to top up your account
and the power went out
so that you couldn't top up your leverage account.
My friend, I have some videos
I'll post to you here now.
And for your education
and more so not entertainment for true education.
Excuse me. It's of vital importance that you understand the details and the context of all this going on, because these targeted attacks, which I've described again since more than a decade ago with my proclamation which I wrote
it's how deep does the rabbit hole go you know like if you're about to end this space like I
could go on for an hour man but like I'll send you some of these quick videos here and then please do Please do read my one page text inscription on Bitcoin ordinal 60,540,984.
60540,984.
It's pretty easy to remember.
So thank you for your time and consideration.
I do love you, humankind.
Each and every one of you.
I'm trying to save the planet from utter destruction.
You guys don't understand the true complexity of all that.
It's beyond my ability to transmit.
I'm just doing the best I can to keep it simple.
We're wrapping up here, Phil.
Ed, Ahmad, anything else to say before we wrap up?
No, just thank you for allowing us to talk here.
I'm looking forward to the new sessions.
And I would love to join you guys frequently.
Yeah, thanks, Ahmad.
We'll do this again soon.
Hopefully next time Twitter's not broken.
Normally, we have hundreds of people on this space.
Unfortunately, Twitter was completely broken today.
A ton of the people that were supposed to come speak
and friends who wanted to come listen were sending messages like we can't even see the space
it's it's unaccessible so twitter completely broken but it was a really fun conversation
regardless and i certainly learned a lot uh so cheers guys and uh yeah ed anything else
censorship comes in many forms um i again the message that I transmit on Bitcoin, I made immutable.
I'm going to censor you right now.
I muted you there, bud.
I know you keep trying to talk, but this show is not about your, I don't know, situation.
And I would probably recommend maybe getting a little help.
Look, I don't know you i don't know
your whole story it sounds like a little bit of paranoid schizophrenia or something there but
uh and uh you said we're censoring i'm i don't think that's what's happening but i did have to
mute you because the show's not about your personal issues friend uh But anyways, yeah, go ahead, Ed.
Yeah, thanks for having me up.
I think, you know, we've got a lot of potential here
to connect, you know, what we're doing in agriculture
and the data we're starting to collect.
And in fact, in regenerative ag,
we have our own AI system now
that's clean from the data that's in the general systems.
So I think the more we can tie that into the medical community and what Hamad's been talking about and, you know, more personal health monitoring.
I think we got a lot of potential here to actually bring health to people
i think people are sick and tired of being sick and tired and i think we're trying to figure out
and we're getting close to figuring out why that's happening and starts from the soil and
goes all the way up into our personal gut biome and our personal nutrition. So thanks for having me up and look forward to expanding this
in the future. Thank you. Yeah, and I love it, man. And I really, I'm an optimist. So I like to
hope, you know, kind of what I was asking earlier is, are we moving in a positive direction? And I
think we are. There's, I mean, in some ways we're moving in a worse direction. Some foods are
becoming more processed and more shitty. And if you don't care, you'll, you'll just kind of follow that direction. And
those foods sure are tasty. Jack in the box and McDonald's sure are tasty. But, uh, you know,
I think if you go the other way, I think there's a lot of demand going in the other direction.
There's a lot of demand going towards, uh, Hey, we want to know what's in our food. We want
to eat healthy stuff. We want to make better choices. We want whatever, organic or grass-fed
or high polyphenol or whatever it is, the choices we make. And I feel like there's a big movement
happening and that creates demand for these things. And in a capitalist world, that demand will
create more supply for the product. So someone mentioned earlier that if we have higher demand,
it'll raise prices, but that's not actually how the market works.
The demand raises the prices in the short term,
then the market comes in and goes, hey, there's an opportunity.
So then the demand will make more of the good
and the price comes down in the long term.
You look at electronics, right?
Yeah, lots of people had demand for phones and
TVs, but now phones and TVs get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper over time thanks to Moore's
Law and other capitalist-driven innovations. And so the more we demand good, healthy food,
the more the prices go up temporarily, and then that makes a bunch of opportunists come in and
go, hey, I could grow this cheaper.
I could do this healthier.
And it gets better over time.
You know, like I couldn't imagine.
I bet if you look back 20 years ago, it would be very hard to find 100 brands of high polyphenol, you know, third party tested olive oil.
Or it would be very hard to find third party. I never used to see EPA, DHA
posted on sardines and different foods. Now it's on there and there's whole websites dedicated to
test third party testing to make sure that there's no heavy metals and contaminants and mercury and
all these things. So over time, it's getting better slowly, maybe rapidly, I'd even argue.
And if you want it, these healthy
things are out there. You just have to do the research. And the biggest recommendation I have
for that is use AI, ask the AI some questions. It's not always right, but God, it is certainly
a great tool for trying to learn this stuff. The stuff that I know about health might've taken me
five years of taking courses and reading books. You can really do a huge
dent in your education. And if you spend, you know, whatever, a few months, just like taking
a little bit of your spare time, asking AI questions and then verify of course, by reading
the peer reviewed articles and all this stuff. But AI has been a great tool for me.
Ed, yeah, you have your hand.
And I was going to ask, Ed, do you use AI to research at all?
Well, as I was going to say,
if you garden or you have farmers around you,
look up fieldlark.ai.
That's F-I-E-L-D-L-A-R-K.ai. That's our specific regenerative agriculture AI.
You can play around with it and see, you know, even in...
Could you spell that one more time?
Field, as in like baseball field, Lark, L-A-R-K, like in the bird.
So it's fieldlark.ai.
It's free for the basic level and so many questions.
It's done by John Kemp, who actually was an Amish farmer,
who's a brilliant young man working in understanding nutrition and biome,
and he has a company
he has inoculants and minerals I mean we could get in all kinds of things how we're improving
seed quality and plant health and animal health and so you know that's a good and I think what
eventually is we're gonna I'm working with a couple other dows to try to see if we can create again a custom
AI that sort of ties in what we do in regenerative ag to nutrition and medical and in personal health
monitoring whether it be through the you know the watches the rings whatever but then like what
Hamad was saying you know so if you go and get that test and you know
we can work a system then so as long as we can qualify the foods we then food can actually be
when you need it as medicine or at least as just keeping you in general health. And so you avoid the produce and stuff that's just low quality and contaminated and everything else.
And we're even working on ways to monitor minerals in the field
and all the organism in the field through third generation metagenomics.
And so, you know, plus the metabolomics and the nutrient in the metabolites so you know
we got a lot of data um over the last few years and john kemp's been doing this for with advancing
ecoag for more than 15 years on millions of acres across just about every crop plus he does a ton of podcasts so he you know inserts all that
into his ai system in fact he's even doing a what do they call it like where you clone an ai of
yourself so because he had tons of um what they call tokens that feed into that creating your
own personal ai he's sort of doing on that for fun sort of so you know you could he
can literally have uh himself where he can't go around and talk and to everybody but he can have
a cloned ai himself so yeah digital twin right so I mean, people don't think farmers are into science,
but we are deeply into science and advancing tech beyond what industrial tech is.
Farming is a science.
It is.
And it's the most important science because we work pretty much 100% with nature
because nature is amazing.
I mean, we just put down nature.
They were told us for years that the biome wasn't going to make much of a difference.
That's why farmers are told, wake up in the morning and basically kill everything
and that we could do better.
And no, we've realized that's just so wrong.
Instead of killing the things that are a problem,
it's just like in our gut biome.
We don't just try to kill the bad stuff.
You try to add more of the good stuff and make it a more balanced environment, right?
So in agriculture, instead of just, hey, let's go out there and spray poison on the bugs.
Well, maybe you actually add some more bugs or more animals in the area that eat the bugs and you create a more balanced ecosystem.
More worms, more stuff in the soil.
Don't kill the soil.
Don't sterilize it.
Make it more diverse.
Right.
We used to think monoculture.
Kill everything and have a monoculture.
Now we realize, no, don't kill anything.
Add maximum diversity.
And that's where the system thrives.
And that's why we're doing, that's why we call what we're doing in agriculture is a complete paradigm shift.
And I think we're doing the same thing in medical.
It was all about antibiotics.
And now we think, well, how can we support probiotic?
Instead of minimal nutritional analysis.
Now we're thinking, no, we need a broad spectrum of all those micronutrients,
not just the macros. So thanks so much.
Yeah, no problem. All right, guys, we're going to wrap it.
I'm going to let, Hey, Wolf, say something if you'd like,
cause you came up and I don't want, I appreciate you coming up,
but I'm going to let message to Phil back up.
He's requesting to come back up.
Everybody can drop off if you want, or you could listen.
If it gets too crazy, I'm just going to drop him and we'll end the space.
But Phil messaged to Phil, whatever your name was.
No, no offense.
I will let you come back up, but if it starts getting too wacky and totally completely off
topic, I might have to drop you again but uh go ahead wolf
uh yeah my name is alex i just want to say thank you guys for for this space and rock i'm waiting
for this uh list of um like medical tests people need to take or need to take like a threat i'll
be happy to retweet it and spread the word to my friends i think it's very useful for you oh yeah yeah no problem uh it's not like an all-inclusive list and hamad
had mentioned some other stuff but i'll just tell you for myself after a good amount of research the
ones i decided to do and that really helped change my path of what i'm eating and how i'm thinking
about nutrition it was a really good start for me when I did these tests. Knowing that I had high,
you know, general body inflammation, knowing that I had bad, like, I don't want to just say high LDL,
but other, like, you know, the particle sizes and the ApoB lipoproteins and these, there's various
different things you can look at to get a better picture. But yeah, I'll make a thread and I'll send that to you.
Let me send you a message right now.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Thanks for the idea.
Here, let me DM you.
Hey, I'll write that thread today.
Cool.
I'll include in there like a lot of the just general health stuff that I'm doing
that has completely changed my life.
I feel like I,
for the longest time I was feeling like I, you know, wow, this is what it's like to, to age.
Uh, and I realized, no, that's just what it's like to not be, you know, maximally treating your body
right and healthy. Cause I feel like just in the last few months, just in the last few months, I feel like I've taken 10 years off my life.
I feel so agile.
I feel like I'm walking on a cloud.
Yeah, let's go.
Okay, I'm going to bring up our friend message to Phil here.
All right, so I've brought you up.
When you say people are censoring you, I, yeah, I muted you.
I guess you could call that censorship,
but it's just because you're saying kind of a little wild stuff that has
nothing to do with the show.
And we're talking about health here and you're talking about people are
following you and messing with your liquidating.
My friend Jeremy Murphy and I with samples that we've both contribute,
Jeremy Murphy and I, with samples that we've both contributed, have changed the books and validate Morgellons as a real condition.
Because previously, and maybe still Google, if you search Morgellons, it may say it's a delusional parasitosis condition, but it's anything but.
It's a bioweapon, actually.
And it's a bioweapon actually. And, um, and it's, it's, uh, you're saying people are telling you
that you have something that is a delusional parasite and you're saying, no, it's something
that what, what I'm just trying to understand. Cause you're jumping all over the place.
What are polynucleotide encoding ectosine receptor sites and how do they, how, how do
they attenuate to 5g frequency? Um it kind of like uh what is the purpose behind it
if not to hijack the nervous system for the sake of reading and writing like a computer hard drive
huh i'm not sure if that's there's levels of it or if i'm supposed to know i i have no idea
i mean like dude i'm just telling you, like, I'm asking questions.
Like, you know, there's levels of awareness of advanced technology in this world.
And people like to think that I'm crazy because they don't know what I could teach them.
Okay.
So just like I had to correct myself on this very Twitter spaces multiple times because we were getting too deep in the weeds, I think the thing is you're starting in the weeds.
So maybe zoom out. What are you saying that 5G and some other combination of things are trying to control us?
First, I said my friend Jeremy Murphy, who calls himself here on Twitter, Real Morgellons, he has legitimized the disease, the condition, which is a turbo cancer.
It's a biofilm. It kind of acts like a fungus. It kind of acts like a bacteria. It's a very strange illness.
It is a silicon based artificial life form that self replicates.
that self-replicates um and it's got a purpose to hijack the nervous system to attenuate with
5g frequency so that it can read and write your nervous system and your brain your thoughts which
are things of frequency uh it can read and write them like a computer hard drive um the purpose of
this someone took this out like some kind of nanobots or something that go inside of us and control us, you're saying?
Perhaps it may be one of the things rained upon you with the chemtrails.
You know?
Yeah, exactly, dude.
Did you see Pluribus?
Pluribus is inscribed on my shoulder in ink.
You put a bit on them.
Well, did you see the show Pluribus no what is it you guys should all watch it it's
really good I feel like you will love it what am I supposed to call your name is not message to
Phil what's your name you can my name is Colton Brummel you can read my text inscription on 60
million five hundred forty thousand nine hundred eighty four it's one of the most significant My text inscription on 60,540,984.
It's one of the most significant inscriptions of our time.
Seriously, I've changed history.
I'm working with my friend Utit.
I want to bring hemp plastic to the world because the United Nations bullies us about sustainable development, but real sustainable ideas are pushed down by them.
And I'm trying to work with my friend Utit, who's the director of the Simpsons, among other things. And he has friends who are
like high up in Thai politics. And I'm trying to bring hemp plastic to manufacturing businesses
here so that we can pioneer biocompostable plastic, which would be a sustainable development
and alternative to the endocrine inhibiting petroleum derivative plastic that's currently biocompostable plastic, which would be a sustainable development and an alternative
to the endocrine inhibiting petroleum derivative plastic that's currently used.
See, there's a lot going on. I got a lot going on. That's pretty cool. I mean, I think you got
to be a little, it actually sounds like, so some of the things you were saying earlier,
to be honest, sound like you were just crazy, but now you're explaining it a little better.
It's more interesting.
So I think maybe learning how to articulate yourself and like zooming out a little and
not going so deep, like, cause the first things you're saying is like, do you know about this
receptor and that receptor?
Nobody knows those receptors.
So you got to start a little zoomed out.
It's a little much.
I know you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
You're right. I'm just, you know, sometimes it's out. It's a little much. I know you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.
I'm just, you know, sometimes it's like, what's a crazy guy saying?
And it gets your interest.
And then I'm like, and then you're like, you're in your brain condition to put your finger on.
So I understand the confusion that you're facing because Mergellons that, you know, they don't really know the origin of it.
And that's what you're essentially saying.
Well, it's a bio weapon.
It's maximally invasive and minimally detectable. really know the origin of it. And that's what you're essentially saying. Well, it's a bio weapon.
It's maximally invasive and minimally detectable. And the Jews will do everything in their power to lie to you about the origin of their bio weapon. You know, they'll brag about some of their tick
born infectious diseases that they've created, but they won't really proclaim the true synergy
with all their technology like I've just described to you you
know like it attenuates to why do you think all these towers have popped up since 2020 you know
like what are their purposes you know like so you're saying this you're saying the jews made
this magellan mcgillen's disease why do you think everything you say and do is being used against
you why do you why is this technology we're using to communicate through
has middleman like the Wizard of Oz?
There's weird things happening behind the scenes.
Who's the ones operating behind that curtain?
That's a good question.
Well, I was with you on the how can we make plastics from biodegradable stuff, because plastics are an incredible technology, actually, in terms of they're cheap, they're malleable, you can do all kinds of things with them.
They don't break down very easily.
That's one of the pros and cons of plastics is they don't break down.
So you can have a plastic thing and it. You could put acid in plastic.
You can leave plastic in, you know, underground or wherever.
And it survives a long time in like pipes and stuff.
But the problem with that is it doesn't biodegrade and it breaks down.
And these microplastics are probably problematic.
We're not sure yet.
But anyway, so biodegradable would be nice.
So you were with me on that.
And then when you went to the Jews who Jews making bioweapons to control us,
you kind of started to lose me again.
Since Napoleon's time, they've
funded both sides of every war.
Okay.
Do you know about the Calergy plan?
No, I don't. What's that?
Have you seen on
bitshoot.com, you could see this
wonderful 12-hour documentary called Europa, The Last Battle.
I would recommend you take a month to watch three hours a week.
It's some pretty dense info.
It's a pretty great documentary.
Europa, The Last Battle.
battle and this is about what what again it's about the clergy plan which is uh the truth
And this is about what?
What again?
that's been hidden from you the real truth of world war ii and world war
the great war and how we got here now in the third world war
there's a cover of the fall of napoleon well it it yeah it's a really good documentary it gets into a
lot of hidden histories but I do think it's worth your time again it takes it's
like takes like a month if you want to watch it if you I'd recommend like three
hours a week you know cuz it's then you can I mean if you want you watch 12 hours
in one day go for it but like I it like, I, it's just, you know,
it's just a lot. All right. Well guys, we're at four and a half hours. We've been trying to end this for over an hour. Uh, thanks everyone for coming. Um, you know, yeah. Um, Colton,
I didn't want to just mute you and then not let you speak, but we had other guests on
that. I wanted to respect their time on the topic that they were invited to speak about but anyways yeah thanks everyone for everything
i truly appreciate you you're amazing um i hope we can talk some more did you uh did you get the
the two tweets i sent you directly with four videos each uh let me take a look
Let me take a look.
Twitter's kind of messed up right now,
so I'm not seeing it in my messages,
but that doesn't mean it hasn't come through.
I followed you back, so you should be able to message me,
but I can't see anything yet.
Let me...
I don't know if you know, but Twitter's been...
It's been down regionally across the world.
And a lot of people can't even get on Twitter right now.
I know, bro.
I'm telling you, it's been very difficult for me.
Or are they censoring you?
I'm the tip of the spear in development.
I've been an investor in Bitcoin since 2012 and a developer since 2014.
So my personal issues, believe it or or not actually do affect a large part
of humankind because in development we can like you know they're they're trying to toggle switches
and cut off freedom for all people i'm trying to keep a economy with a lot of that
there's a you know the complexity of things is difficult to explain i mean we joked about what's
happening in the UK right now,
the censorship happening there.
I do think we're living in a pretty high censorship world right now.
Oh my God, yeah, I can prove it.
The US is a good player overall in that,
but the US has had a lot of issues too in privacy and censorship.
We as a world have to constantly fight uh
for free speech because if we don't it is not inevitable it is not the foregone conclusion
if we do not fight for free speech we will lose it at this smoke shop down the road from where i
live here in phuket thailand just the other day last week i had this is written no wait it's saturday this week holy shit dude still this week i thought it was sunday
um nope this week um this israeli businessman got about got out of a car and introduced me as
introduced himself to me as an israeli businessman and he was saying to me he's like you better shut
up online or you'll get an answer and like he's basically
okay i gotta pause you so that sounds obviously crazy but i i have to ask do you think it's
possible because some of the stuff you've said here about people following you
is a little crazy do you think you could have my schizophrenia or something like that do you
is that possible no no no no no. Look at my pinned tweet, dude.
Like, look at the context of the conversations.
Okay.
Like, I'm telling you, like, this Israeli business guy got out of a car.
He introduced himself as an Israeli billionaire business guy.
And he was saying to me, he's like, you know why you've been censored on social media lately?
He's like, you better shut up.
You better think differently about what you do. And he's, like, you know why you've been censored on social media lately? He's like, you better shut up. You better think differently about what you do.
And he's like threatening to kill me.
And so I just started recording that.
And then I had this other guy drop a target out of his van window.
And then I had this guy assault me in the lobby of my condo building where I live.
Can I ask you another thing? guy like assault me in the lobby of my condo building where i live and like they're just
can i ask you another thing do you what uh this is too personal you don't have to answer
but um how much drugs do you do i smoke weed to deal with the stress from this kind of
crazy going on in my life and i drank some coffee today but other than that I mean like dude
I'm pretty chill man
I understand Salvador Dali
was a pretty wise guy
and he you know as a great artist
he said I don't do drugs I am drugs
because he understood the alchemy
that is biochemistry that is the human body
how about you?
yeah I don't do too much drugs um but i it wasn't meant as an insult i'm just you don't eat many food do i eat food yeah you know food is drugs right yeah food affects
your body it gives you medicines gives gives you calories, gives you minerals, gives you vitamins.
Vitamins is drugs, you know.
Fair enough.
I'm more just trying to understand when you, like saying that an Israeli guy came out of his car and that people are following you.
It does sound very unlikely, right?
So I'm just checking because the way you're talking sounds like some people I have known who had some mental issues that were strongly exasperated by doing drugs.
known who had some mental issues that were strongly exasperated by doing drugs um i had a friend my
my one of my best friend's brother totally normal guy all of our lives growing up and then he started
doing drugs and it uh brought out i think it was like paranoia schizophrenia and some other things
in him and he just went batshit crazy now i could still have good conversations with him but people
are pretty weak man like i i smoke weed as a casual consumer dude like but i have a grip on my reality
i can fucking rip the bong three times in a row and i'll be more coherent than most sober people
dude like i can handle my shit pretty well not that i'm doing shit all the time but i'm just
saying i got a pretty good grip okay well i'll check you for your messages and i'll i'll even
check out your twitter a little bit right now.
I see I checked it while we were talking here and it, uh,
it looks like some crazy stuff, but I'll actually dig into it and see if,
see, you know, I'll give you the time of day, but okay, cool.
I got some pretty entertaining video for you.
If you just check out my timeline, bro, like I'll check it out. Uh, okay.
Thanks everyone. Uh, this was a long one. Uh,
even though we had a very small
audience today because Twitter was broken,
it was a fun show and I hope
you guys all have a good weekend.
Cheers everyone. Bye-bye.
Thanks for having me.
Insights
P
The discussion highlights a significant trend in the crypto space where individuals are increasingly turning to regenerative agriculture and health-conscious practices, reflecting a broader movement towards sustainability and wellness.
Uh oh.
Let me check on the computer.
Oh yeah, when I check from my computer I can't choose the space.
The conversation indicates a growing interest in regenerative agriculture, with farmers reporting increased nutrient density in their crops, which is attracting consumer demand for healthier food options.
Oh yeah, when I check from my computer I can't choose the space.
That's no good.
Well, what should we do?
The mention of collaborations between farmers and tech developers to create AI systems for monitoring soil health and crop quality signifies a strategic partnership aimed at enhancing agricultural practices.
Well, what should we do?
We're just going to have a party with paul today yeah so what is the issue i'm sorry i'm trying
to get my shoes and things on so i can get ready and uh get my brain woken up with some vitamin d
The discussion about the need for funding to support regenerative agriculture initiatives and the development of AI tools for farmers points to ongoing fundraising efforts in the sector.
to get my shoes and things on so i can get ready and uh get my brain woken up with some vitamin d
and walking x was broken for like the past 10 minutes or so and then it started working so
we were like okay well we just risk it and start space. But it still seems to be bonked for some people.
The conversation touches on the potential for regenerative agriculture to yield better health outcomes and nutrient-rich food, which aligns with the concept of yield in the crypto and agricultural sectors.
we were like okay well we just risk it and start space. But it still seems to be bonked for some people.
Okay, so what's going on?
People can't get in?
