Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Tracking unique assets in supply chain with Geeq
Recorded: March 20, 2025 Duration: 1:22:45Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, experts explore the intersection of AI and blockchain, highlighting the potential for verified audiences to transform advertising. As the industry shifts towards decentralization, new fundraising opportunities and strategic partnerships emerge, signaling a promising future for crypto and ad tech.
Full Transcription
you you you you you Yn ystod y cyfle hwn, mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. 1.5 cm. The 1.5 cm 2.5 cm
3.5 cm
4.5 cm
5 cm
6 cm
7 cm The The end Yn ystod y cyfle hwn, mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Okay. Hey Dave, can you hear me?
Oh, you're not allowed to, you're not saying, let me invite you. Is that a yes?
You can hear me?
Let's see if this works.
I would like, would you send me a request to speak brave so I can test if I can hear
you too? Hi Gordon.
Yeah, we've got a request to speak.
Excellent. Okay.
Oh, Judy is here.
Hi, Judy.
I am really excited because I can hear you brave.
And I've sent requests to both Judy and Gordon to speak.
Did you get them?
Because actually Gordon was here the week after you were here, Judy, and he really wanted
to talk to you
So that would be really great. Let me try again
Hello LexaFix. It's nice to see you
LexaFix is in our community our community program and I'm really excited about that. Hello
Of right about that hello all right Gordon why don't you start us off with Judy because this is sort of a free free day
oh is she there yeah Yep.
I can't hear you. I can't hear you, Gordon.
Okay, I've managed to get everyone a speaker invite.
Alexa Fix, if you would accept your invitation,
that would be great.
Gordon, I hear you are,
I see you are a speaker, but I can't hear you.
Right, is it, did this change anything?
Yes, it did.
Hello. Okay.
I can't hear it did. Hello. Okay.
Wonderful.
Windows randomly changes the source
every once in a while, I guess.
You know, it's crazy.
I promise we understand blockchain, right?
It's good.
How are you today?
Great, how are you doing?
I'm doing well, thank you.
We have Judy back, which is such a pleasure
to have her have time for us.
Okay, Judy, I've sent you another invitation to speak.
And let's see, in terms of announcements,
we had the first community get-together on boarding call,
and I really had a lot of fun.
Thank you for people coming on Saturday,
spending their Saturday evenings with us.
We really had a good talk about culture
and why it's important to us to build each other up in this culture because we just don't want to get off
to the wrong foot.
Let's see. All right. What else is going on? Safe Keep is up and running with its own test net. Geek Stacks, I believe, is over for this season, but we have coming up a series of weekly articles,
I believe, about what kinds of applications we can do on Geek.
And I think that will round out part of our educational program, because not everybody
wants to hear about
blockchain theory. Most people want to know is it good for anything and yes we
can say you can use this kind of blockchain to solve problems so we want
to help you understand that and one of the ways we think it's easy to understand is through using stacks.
So more on that later.
We're pretty excited about that.
Hi, DeFi King, I've seen you around and web3.
Oh, one request to speak.
LexaFix is invited to speak.
And Web3 Prexy, I have seen.
And Angela K, thank you for following me.
I've seen you both.
OK, let's get this going with the idea of, well,
first of all, whatever Gordon would like to talk about today.
Let's throw that to you first.
And then maybe we can get to NFTs in Supply Chain.
Wow, yeah, I mean, you know me, I always want to talk about everything.
But actually, I did a little bit of research when I saw the title for this space.
I thought that we were going to try another AI week.
But then when I saw the supply chain,
I just finished working on a project for a client that
does SAS and supply chain.
And so I kind of did a little bit of a rabbit
hole search on like what companies are doing with with
blockchain and security and supply chain. And I guess the
non fungible aspect of tokenization stuff is kind of a
big element of that. But I've always separated the two separately, but not a whole lot together. So I'm
actually very interested in that topic. But also you were mentioning, I guess, Judy may or may not be here.
She seems to come in and out. Yeah.
Gotcha. I mean, I thought that her space was just really brilliant. And because, you know, the type of writing that I do is in the marketing space, I had a lot of appreciation for her harsh warnings for how the ad, you know, online paid ad campaign stuff is really kind of geared in the direction of making sure that the profits go to the platforms and not necessarily to the advertisers that are trying to find their target demographic.
But that led us to that really interesting kind of carryover conversation about what you can do, what can people do to protect their online personas or their online privacy even, and that bigger concept of separating your entities or your presence based on your activities. So that's unpacking a lot, but that's where my brain is.
So that's unpacking a lot, but that's where my brain is.
Definitely. Oh, Judy has accepted the speaker role and we're excited to have you back, Judy, because Gordon was saying he listened to your space and it was very sobering for me. the System failure here. Oh, sorry. I had to like turn everything back on. Yes. I'm a tech wizard. I can take things back
On and off again good for you. I try every day
And well, yeah, well I could be here really great. Um
Glad to be here.
Really great.
And then Gordon was saying that it was interesting
because that led to your discussion, Judy,
led to a deeper topic, which is how do we segment
our own personalities so that people can't do mining
across our entire profile but
maybe we can make ourselves approachable to certain advertisers as a dog lover.
That's my favorite example because I'm a dog lover and I think you used as a you
know as a grandma whereas we both have our work personas which is very
different maybe I don't want people to know that I'm a dog lover.
Right.
Have you thought any more about that?
So we're always thinking about how to recreate ad tech, which is right now a push engine,
meaning they just push stuff in your face, whether you want it or not, to a poll, which
is where people are opting in or choosing
whether to read a piece of content or join a newsletter or whatever the
activities are. We used to think, at least I used to think, my, my, my past
thinking, like in the past, I don't know, three years, not that long ago was that
I kind of expected browsers to evolve so that you could create different personas
within the browser.
Like for the next two hours I'm grandma, give me the grandma stuff.
After that turn off grandma, I'm back to being a business ad tech person.
I'm now more convinced we'll get there.
I think what's going to happen is we're going to have individual browsers, I'm using
that word loosely, that we train. And so the question is, that is a fascinating piece of
work. Peter, I think, was kind of getting at that. Remember Peter Cranston? He was getting
there.
Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I'm you know,
I don't know who's going to take up that banner exactly just yet. I don't. But the the the
innovation hurdle that we've cleared now, all you know, the industry is we're not talking about AI
anymore. We're talking about AI agents. It's really a horse of a different color. So now that you have an AI agent, I
think the flexibility we're gonna have in our online activities is gonna be
much more in our control. How that evolves is really murky in my crystal
ball here that I shine up every now and then. I would love to jump in. I would love to jump in because I think that you've said
exactly
what I've been thinking about which is I don't think it's going to be a browser. I think it's going to be based on blockchain
first and I was thinking about this push and pull concept yesterday that
we want AI agents to
not to push on us, but for us to pull back what they come up with.
If they can come up with a menu for us and then we select and pull from them.
Is that the way you use push and pull Judy? Mostly just to give it
a little more granular context in the pure marketing world right just I'm just
talking in like the context of when I'm talking to a colleague or a brand when I
use the word push that means I am sending them advertising whether it's
one-on-one like email or a banner ad I am pushing it in their face. I am sending them advertising, whether it's one-on-one like email or a banner ad.
I am pushing it in their face.
I am having them look at it.
They didn't ask for it.
They didn't engage.
They showed virtually zero interest.
But I'm just going to push it in their face as much as I can, as unfortunately cheaply
as I can.
Pull is quite different.
Pull. Imagine pull more like like your Facebook feed.
You choose what you want to read more deeply.
You're going to get the feed, but then you click on
whatever it is of more interest.
That feed mechanism, whether it's open web or walled gardens
like a Facebook is where I think the next real iteration of control.
I completely agree with you, Stephanie.
Blockchain is in there.
I'm not I'm not sure where I know it's there.
I'm not exactly sure where because once so here's a here's a here's a risk profile. Here's what bad could happen, right?
Mm-hmm. I I'm a fraudster. I'm a bad actor, right?
Yeah, I can create millions. They can create millions of profiles that could look real. You'll never know. Oh, nobody will ever know, right?
Right. So
In fact, there was a great book called
Crisis 2038 was written by Gerald Huff. He was one of the lead engineers of Tesla before Tesla became Elon Musk. They kind of
merged in some way.
Yes, right.
Right. But he understood back then, this is 2018, that AI is going to be usually disruptive.
Put aside workers that are going to get disrupted, but disruptive is the whole culture.
And in the book, he paints a, it's a science fiction, it's fiction, but he's far more accurate
and it's far more now than 2038, which is the ability to create armies of really hard to detect bots that could sway opinion.
Now I'll argue Twitter is a little bit like that.
40% of Twitter, maybe more, is bots.
So when Elon Musk says whatever comes into his pretty little head, you've got millions
and millions and millions of accounts that are repeating that, adding maybe some.
These are all bots. Now whether they're human bots right now or digital bots
doesn't matter so in future a bad actor and that's what this book was about you
know a couple of bad actors really changing and shifting public opinion like
radically oh yeah yeah how do we prevent that without blockchain I don't know
well I think we give them identities so that if we can start following them.
Well, actually, that doesn't work so well on Twitter, right?
Because each one has a handle.
But the handle is hard to check.
So their identity is difficult to trace back to a human source.
So go up one level in terms of personas, right?
You know, imagine an AI agent can create millions of real-looking, they're gonna
have a Facebook page, they're gonna have a Twitter page, they're likely to have a
LinkedIn profile, they're likely to have some couple of articles that have been
created, placed in, you you know just nowhere just to
make it look like they're real. So the question is how do we prevent that and I don't have a great
answer. I really don't. This is something that I was talking about okay let me knock it all right
I will I will get distracted I was talking to Nathan yesterday.
Nathan appeared on our spaces last week and he stood up and said, who's with me pushing back
against fraud? And I said, I am. We had this talk yesterday and he said he started down that path by
being, I'm sorry to take his story, but being an intern back in the day where they
were trying to authenticate who, which web pages were really from congressional leaders.
And they had to do that.
They had to chase down which of the web pages were fake and which of the ones were put up authorized by the speaker or the representative.
And I was thinking, well, that's kind of the way we have to go back. If you can confirm with a congressperson that they are responsible for certain pages,
now we can start to trace back which ones are just put up by bots and unofficial,
and which pages are put up by the congressperson's cryptographic key.
Years ago, I worked on a technology
Which was a page verification very much like an SSL if you're a web page you have to record the page
So because at that point banks were you know people are creating fake banks at sites that look just like chase or city or whatever
When it comes to sites, you can, it's hard to do,
but it's at least, I could see how to do it.
In the profile that I'm imagining,
where I think on the positive side,
users will be able to create their own browser experience.
I don't know, A, who would create that?
And whose interest is it to create it?
And B, how do we ensure that it's a real person being created and not just a bot?
It's solvable.
I know it is.
I just don't know why, how, right this second.
I'm more worried about the business side.
I'm more worried about the business side.
Look, and whose interest is it to do it? Because right now it's not in that many people's
interest to do it. Well, when AI agents start looking for people, it may not even be in your
interest to distinguish if the AI agent is going to be your customer. I'm going to let Gordon speak
because I'm sure he's been thinking for the last 10 minutes. Can I speak?
I promise I've been a patient listener.
Yeah, it is.
Is this working?
Okay.
Gotcha.
This thing keeps acting kind of weird on me.
Um, yeah, I think it, for me, it partially goes into the area of what are we willing to sacrifice in that trade off between, you know, safety and security and freedom. being able to choose to segment our online activity
and decide where we're willing to be our public version.
Maybe if it is politics or if we are representing our company,
you have your public-facing identity.
And you have your, I'm going to ask a whole bunch
of personal questions about taking care of my kids or, you know,
the dog walking or local information where you don't want people to know who
you are. You don't want people to know that, you know,
you're in a certain neighborhood or something. So you say those things,
that becomes really difficult when you're trying to solve the agent problem,
which is part of the reason why, yeah, I mean,
I I've always felt about AI, like
it can't get out of the box. But once it's out, there's no
putting it back in. So now we have to deal with that. But I
think it's much more important to protect an individual's right
to privacy, and to choose who and what they are online, than
it is to overprotect to the point
where we're all having to have digital identifications
of ourselves online for everything.
That's a great point.
So I've thought about,
I thought about in some ways,
thank you, gotcha.
I thought about some ways how blockchain,
because we can have, for instance,
a wallet that everybody knows how to access
that wallet to send something to it because of the public key,
but only the wallet owner can choose in both directions,
whether to send or receive from their private key.
I wonder if identity could be handled in a similar way to where you actually
own something similar to the digital certificate or the SSL, like you are the
encryption in the same way that the wallet is the encryption and it would be.
while it is in the description.
And it would be, so it would be disadvantageous
for a billion agents to have to represent that
in some paid form, if that makes sense.
Yeah, no, that makes total sense.
Like, in the real world, we might have to pay
for our tag on our car every year.
That's brilliant, yeah.
And we just accept.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, so it's like the cost of doing business.
We don't mind paying a small amount
for the ability to drive around in public
and do all these things.
So I hate the idea of having to pay Twitter directly
to verify myself.
I agree.
Hate it.
Yes, I mean, I just,
I'm doing without having a really good audience, which I wish I had that but you know, so I get limited in, you know, who can see anything that I have to say on Twitter, but I I'm valuing this accounts anonymity.
I refuse to verify myself on LinkedIn. I find that I need to be good for you me
Well, it's a it part of it is the absurd even but Gordon I want to I want to go back to what you said for a minute because something kind of triggered in in my mind
anyway
Point your first point your earliest point was about how people should you know?
You can't overprotect because then it renders the system inoperable and that's not helpful, right?
An example of that of overprotection was email certificates. So I don't know if anybody remembers those ridiculous days, but for about two minutes
You know companies were trying to
Encrypt email certificates and you needed to exchange keys. It was a bloody mess
It was just a mess and it slowly just died of its own incompetence, frankly. So that's a good example of what
you can do to really screw it up if you overdo it. The key though at this point, what is
troubling, and I don't know how to put the toothpaste back in the tube is a lot of pop a lot of private data is
already out there it's gone that horse has left the barn I don't know why I'm
in metaphor world today but you know that's gone right yeah no one's no one's
arguing that and what's worse though here's what's worse I actually did a
LinkedIn post just for my own amusement. I took my maiden name, decided to
see what it had about me. I was actually looking for a friend of mine and I only knew the maiden
name so I was trying to find it and I couldn't find her so I said okay let me look me up.
The data about me was 55% wrong. They knew I got married right so it had that right but like
this one database where they misspelled my name and now that I go by that name
Shadiro, I don't it's wrong. It's an error. So part of the thing that I think is gonna happen
What the data is out there? It's collapsing of its own error rate
It's it's it's astonishing that billions of dollars of media are placed on data that is flawed. But okay, I you know, not my problem
So I think it will collapse it has to
It's just too much. It's too wrong too much of the data. So then I'm thinking okay, what could replace it? I
Love your idea Gordon of having people pay a small amount for verification
verification the wrong word, I don't like to use that word, but whatever word. Local, local certificate of authority is the way
we think of it. Okay, I don't know what that means, but I was resonating with almost creating a
wallet. Not everybody's going to use it, not everybody needs it, but if
let's say imagine the wallet becomes how you your authentication layer across
applications. Because at that point they exist like shop is an authentication
layer. You know once you sign up it's it holds everywhere you go that carries
that particular payment. The reason I like wallets is
because people understand what they are.
It's a very understood entity.
I could put a dollar in and it could be as little as a dollar.
I do worry about how do people in other countries afford it.
We have to be mindful of that.
A dollar for us is nothing,
but a dollar to somebody else is food for a month maybe. So we have to be mindful of that. You know, $1 for us is nothing but $1 to somebody else's food for a month, maybe. So we have to be mindful of that. So everybody has to have access, but somewhere along the line has to be verified. And so I do like the idea of a wallet. I do. Am I crazy?
that people understand that like you wouldn't have to have a million different wallets for all of your different, you know,
segmented, you know, it's, it's mine.
But maybe that's the killer application.
So I dish out from it.
So maybe that's the killer application, because that's where blockchain has suffered a little bit from an adoption point of
view. There's no killer application. Certainly not an ad tech, like, like, it just became more of an encumbrance than a help. Yes, there were some valid verification issues, but they couldn't, blockchain could not
solve the fundamental issue which is too much of traffic on websites is fake. I'm
talking about publisher websites now. And there's nothing blockchain can do to help
that. Nothing. But in this iteration, it could. You could buy blockchain audiences.
Just, just hear, see what I'm saying? Is this making any sense or am I going way too But in this iteration it could you could buy blockchain audiences just here
See what I'm saying. This is making any sense or am I going way too far out there? You're totally right
So then the question is how do we create blockchain audiences and I think that would have a high value in the market
Yeah, we can do that with NFTs
with the geek NFTs that are that are secure because one of the things that well no wait a minute yes we
could one of the things about NFTs in blockchain world is that they are they
can be pushed on someone you can transfer an NFT into another wallet in
general but what Geeks NFTs, what we've invented is there are NFTs that you
don't have to accept, you have to counter party sign for maybe an advertiser would generate some NFTs and say,
do you want to be a part of our audience?
And if so, then I would counter sign for it, which is accepting it.
And now you can advertise to me as part of your audience, even though you don't know who I am.
All you know is my wallet has countersigned an agreement to be in your audience.
So I get what you're saying.
Functionally though, there are a couple of gotchas to that one.
First of all, and I'm just thinking about human behavior.
Nobody's going to sign up and say,
gee, I got to be part of that wallet.
I want to be marketed to by XYZ company.
That doesn't happen often.
It just doesn't. Human nature is the way it is.
I don't understand, and it's just me not understanding it that deeply
because I really know so little about so many things
But I don't know. Do you have to use an NFT for wallet?
Well, there's no way to otherwise it gets very intrusive Judy if you're going to ask somebody
To show your whole self and everything about you
That that gets,
I mean, it sort of reduces back to the problem
that we have now.
But if you write an application that just looks for one NFT,
your application is looking for your dog certificate,
your dog NFT ID, then I would feel more comfortable.
I'm thinking more like your topic
approach. Well yeah that's why I'm trying to create the architecture in
my head and I'm just it's just eluding me right now. Let me play the top-down
version in my head because I must be missing something right. So here's what
I'm imagining. Again it it's in the near distance.
It's in the near future.
Not today. Right.
But somebody has created a way for me to almost use my blockchain wallet.
Put aside what's in the wallet for a minute as my verification layer.
Right. That's what verifies me.
Right. Full stop.
I go about my, I have the wallet over there.
I go about my business and I'm like
I need to buy new shoes for my grandkids as an example. I
Might say to my agent. Hey find me kids shoes and this and the sizes
Show me what you got. I don't want to spend more than 20 bucks or whatever the number is
They then bring back to me
That that ask.
I say, okay, buy those.
It goes into the wallet
and is able to complete the transaction.
Is that too naive?
Is that too simple?
I'm missing a million steps in there.
Let's go to Gordo.
You probably- What am I missing?
I feel like I'm not,
I don't understand blockchain enough to be intelligent, so I apologize.
Oh, you're doing great.
I think that maybe the, the simplified way that I imagine it is that the, the thing we want to decentralize is the platform.
So the platform could even be starting at your computer itself.
We've gone the other direction,
just like the security certificates through the browser.
It's protecting me and the thing on the other end,
but it's at the point where I'm trying to access the other end.
If you think about it in terms of platform, end, but it's at the point where I'm trying to access the other end.
And if you think about it in terms of platform, like I don't want to choose
to trust Twitter on the backend to verify myself.
So you think about what I really like the idea of is that my wallet or whatever that thing is, that centralized thing is the thing that interacts with all those other things. So it's no longer me, and it's no
longer my IP connected to my computer that's connected to my local servers, which is connected to my identity, you know,
to all the companies that matter that you don't really want to be sharing that information with. So it's, you know, I am
information with so it's you know, I am somehow like the
private key in that wallet and the wallet is the me that
interacts with everything else. All that all that Twitter or
Amazon or anything would need is to recognize that only that one
public key works with that wallet. wallet yes except to a couple points one okay public you say
to people public key and they go fleeing in fear honestly it terrifies them they don't
they don't get it they don't understand i helped launch ssls i used to work at komodo
so you know and and that's one of the reasons why email certificates went crash and burn
like big time crash and burn like not just a little
Crashing burn it like collapsed in a heap of stupidity
Because the idea of exchanging public keys and on the cryptic it was just
Too much of an encumbrance. So in my brain
in my brain
Stephanie your point is right
Which is you don't want to reveal to Twitter anything other than what you want Twitter to know and that's where I think the agent
Capability kicks into gear so I create this wallet the wallet has some intelligence about what interests me because of what I bought I
Then loop in an agent to say okay go find me this that or the other thing and it does
But then turn it around. This is where the big money would be guys and that's why I'm like I'm so focused and you know
Fascinated by all the work you guys are doing because he I'm turning it around right? I know the ad tech side
Imagine just imagine for a minute predict pretty side the technicalities of how we figure it out, right?
Imagine we could go to advertisers and say you want a million dog lovers that are verified?
Here you go.
Let's advertise to them.
You want a million grandparents that are verified?
Here you go.
That's solving a real industry problem.
Two levels.
One, you can't figure out the bots and two, you can't figure out who's interested in what
I'm selling today
right That is such a huge play. I can see it so clearly in my freaking little head. I really can
again
To solve the problem of what is real and what is fake?
You know used to I have an expression which is impressions don't buy only people do so the chase for impressions has been a rabbit hole of
fraud and waste and just general heartache the way I saw that right now
is back to the topic thing only a person makes a topic journey a bot does not so
when I'm on a site and I see 90% of the people of the things are you know one
pager most a lot of those are bots,
but if I see somebody going from page to page to page,
I know for a fact that's person.
And so those are the ones I focus on.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah.
Right.
Well.
Yeah, I think that's,
and I think that it's okay
if there are like levels of registration. like for instance, if you are a, it doesn't have to be a publicly traded company, but you know, let's say that you have an Amazon store.
And so your certificate is verified. I mean, you had to do that anyway, in the real world, your name, your address, your, probably your card on file and all that stuff.
address, probably your card on file and all that stuff.
But you would have something similar to a wallet that
is its public entity that would be verifying all
of our individual user wallets.
So those exchanges would happen, which would also
cut down on the example you gave earlier,
like when you have people that create a fake web page that
looks like their bank, and they didn't check the fake link and that kind of thing.
If, see, I think it's fine to verify and validate things.
I don't think that it's good that it's going into the direction that they think
that it's going to have to be biometric.
Because I mean, it'll take a heartbeat.
People, you know, they'll figure out how to, I mean, they'll, they'll figure
that out or steal it. And then it's even worse. You can never get your biometric social security
back if somebody hacks that.
Well, let me give you a historical reference to that point. It was really, you know, we
always go two steps forward and one and a half steps backwards. It's frustrating. So we started with SSL. Now technically an SSL is just encrypting two sides of that transaction.
That's it. Here's the problem. Like everybody said, it doesn't mean you're not encrypting
with a fraudster. So if a fraudster created a fake bank site, like a man in the middle
attack or any other kind of risk profile, right? And that fraudster has an SSL, so you
know that nobody else is stealing what they're already stealing from you. Do you understand
the problem? So then they came up with something called high assurance SSL, which in theory was supposed to verify the entity itself as being legitimate.
That's still around, almost nobody really pays for it, it was a very high. Now you can get a free SSL now, do you know that?
They're free, or maybe 10 bucks a year or whatever the hell it is. There's no money in there's no money in it anymore Nobody talks about SSL because there's no money in it anymore
The point is that if we if we create these
We got to get it right once because once you start creating levels
Then it's just gonna get gamed the fraudsters have more technical resources than the good guys. That's the problem and
the fraudsters learn how to use technology better and faster than the good guys and
You know I go back to internet who exploited it the best first in terms of marketing
Porn mm-hmm they could get you they could get you to your kind of
Preferential tastes very quickly and very efficiently
When it came to you know they're the ones
that will figure it out first so we kind of have to get it right once because
once you start iterating then that's where all the vulnerabilities start
appearing. Well that's why you hang out with us right Judy? Well and that's where I am both, AI agents are the game changer.
Without that, I think AI agents becomes almost the hand in glove application for blockchain.
Because an AI agent can deal with it, the human doesn't have to.
Blockchain can like feed into the background and the human never has to really deal with
it. Right, which is why I think,
I think I wanna challenge your idea, Judy,
that you have to find the real person
because in your scenario where you're sending your AI agent
to go do something for you,
if the AI agent comes and knocks on the door
and says, I want to buy a pair of shoes,
I've been sent here to buy a pair of shoes, that that is a meaningful interaction from
an advertiser's point of view, right?
Correct. Absolutely.
So so we're still back to the point of we need to protect the person.
protect the person. That's Gordon's concern in mind too, obviously.
That's that's Gordon's concern in mind, too, obviously.
But we also need to give you the ability to say to your advertisers,
hey, these people and or their AI bots are useful audience.
I could see how that data exchange can happen pretty seamlessly.
Again, that I can imagine, okay, I'm the consumer, go find me a pair of sneakers for heaven's
sakes for my, you know, four-year-old granddaughter, turn, turn, turn, comes back and says, you
know, here's the store, we recommend this store for this reason versus that store, right?
Here's why. You say, no, no, no, I want to go to that store for this reason versus that store, right? Here's why you say,
no, no, no, I want to go to that store for whatever reason. In that moment, again, behind
the scenes, the more we can push blockchain to the background, the better the adoption
will be. Right? So all of those handoffs can happen in the back of once I've given the
AI agent permission to say, buy it it there so that I can see a
cascading set of rules and and and permissions why wouldn't another and
that's true I wouldn't another store in the background offer the agent a better
deal even if you would have preferred the first store they might have. So in my world, okay, in my fantasy world, I admit this, it would.
In other words, I mean, the way I initially imagined it is the AI agent then kind of goes
with all other AI agents to say, here's how many people are interested in kid sneakers.
The AI agent finds what it thinks are the best
deals.
It's not restricted to any provider.
It could go to Amazon, it could go to Macy's, it could go to whatever it wants.
But then I as the...
Yeah?
No, finish your sentence please.
And then I would say, okay, it's going to bring back to me and say, okay, here are the
top choices that I found for you based on ABC criteria
or maybe I gave it the AI agent say, go find sneakers that is easy to return, blah, blah,
blah. I gave them a set of criteria, right? And then I say, okay, choose that one. But
it's not constrained in what is presented to me as options. I've been training it to
say, don't give me anybody who makes it in certain countries. Don't give me somebody where it takes three weeks to return it.
I want free returns, so forth and so forth and so forth.
Interesting. You would say,
don't give me anybody who makes it in a certain country,
which is, I can imagine if John were here,
he'd say, yeah, but the Russians would be sending Russian bots to say,
we are actually American.
So it's very-
Yeah, this is where an AI agent can do the heavy lifting.
I could go, for instance,
one of the criteria is a secure site.
I can have the agent go check the SSL,
where was it registered, when was it registered,
and tell the AI if it was registered you know and what these criteria or unknown
it's unknown who who bought the SSL eliminate them eliminate interesting
let AI do the work that I as a human should be doing but I'm not Judy I'd love
hi how many times what when was the last time you looked in SSL certificate tell me
Right. No
Frankly you should because a lot of them to your point
It's only telling you a necessary tells you if the transaction is cryptic It has no it is not telling you the trustworthiness of the person on the other side of that incorrect
telling you the trustworthiness of the person on the other side of that
incorrect correct so you know you tell it I have to be able to trust it you
give it the criteria here's what's going to connote trust for me or the AI agent
might say okay they might look at the reviews there are a whole this is where
AI agents will be brilliant I am so I mean, I'm proud that we have figured it out. Yes, you have.
So that's why I'm like, you know, I wasn't as excited about it when the very boring
white paper came out. So I'll be honest with you, because it's just like, this is boring
me even. But when you actually start understanding where, you know, the controls of the internet
can be transferred from now sites to centralized platforms
Which is exactly what you said Gordon to me the user yeah that hasn't been available in 40 years
Seriously, yeah, yeah, this is like a breakthrough beyond just you know getting online
This is my internet my way so I could imagine that we could take your preferences.
So you know the things that people should be doing for themselves, right?
Judy, you say, check the SSL,
check when it was registered and write an app for that where all those things are
filled out and Stephanie goes through them.
Talking my third person sorry
about that and I say these are my preferences AI agents any AI agent that
I use should go by these criteria exactly and that's on chain so now if
somebody else comes and says,
Gordon, help me think, why would it be valuable to have that on chain?
I think it would. Let me think about that though.
Walk me through that one more time. I had to handle a quick phone call and so I got lost.
Okay. Well, let me let me um first
of all invite anyone who would like to jump in and speak to send me a speaker's
request because this is going by really quickly and I'm also stalling because I
haven't figured out the end of my story. I'm not sure I know the answer but just in my the my I have a little bit of blinders on there so I apologize for everybody else was a more broader perspective no no that's fine but
There's it is really just about who's real and who isn't
So if you stick if you just keep the blockchain in its simplest form to the wallet thing
You don't need it anywhere else. Yep. Yep
Yep, I don't I don't think you do again. I'm going back to
I could go back to advertisers and say here's a million blockchain
Audiences, you know, they're real
It's not even about verification, you know, they're real. I can't begin to tell you how much value that has but
I'll be honest with you. If I had the time and the energy, that's what I would do. But I think you need, you need the, the,
in order to find out if that is a real person,
a good person to have in your audience, you need some buy-in from the person.
You need some signal. Otherwise it's cheap to pretend you're a person.
No, that's where Gordon is a hundred percent right. Pay for it.
Pay a buck. And that's where Gordon is 100 percent right. Pay for it. Pay a buck.
I agree.
That's another thing I was thinking is that if it's the wallet instead of
the person or their IP or the owner of the XYZ,
or the person that gave their credentials to the platform,
if the wallet is the verification,
then I think people are okay with the wallet sharing its unidentifiable activities.
Exactly. Meaning that, you know, you have a legitimate audience in this wallet that bought
this thing for their dog or, you know, bought these different purchases. So it's okay to verify things
that are connected to its activity,
as long as nothing from the owner of the wallet ever had to go in.
Exactly.
Well, that brings us back to the micro-payments wallet,
which where you could just spend tiny little amounts and give them to,
our idea was you could spend tiny little amounts and transfer
them to an account for your kid to spend you know you say well all right here's
five cents spend it how you want to in one hundredths of a penny. And they would be they would be
anonymous, because they never funded a wallet. They could just
go on YouTube and watch something. And that would be
enough, I guess, to identify them as a little wallet that did
a little wallet that did something without getting back to who they are.
something without getting back to who they are.
I think that the micro transaction is the answer to making it fair for anybody on the planet.
Yeah, I agree with that.
In any economy. Because just like Bitcoin, 0.00000088 Bitcoin is something that is likely to always be affordable to somebody.
And if the fees aren't ridiculous, you would always be able to transfer that to somebody else. Let's
say that somebody didn't have it in their wallet. It's cheap enough for pretty much anybody in their
circle to say, here, have one of mine. So, mine. So the smaller that Geek can do a micro transaction,
the more that pretty much anybody on the planet
could lend somebody else a helping hand if they
didn't have what they needed.
And it wouldn't hurt them, as long as the transaction fees
are low enough.
And being able to break it down into little segments
is something we can do.
I think the biggest thing with it is that it is the centralized part of it is that somebody's
going to develop the technology. Yeah. And you know, Geek could do it now. Yeah. So I really,
really, really want to trust them. And then, you know, forever and a day beyond that,
I don't want to care about trusting anybody.
Exactly right.
My wallet is me.
Exactly.
And that's why I like the idea of walloping the tip of the sphere
to house a whole bunch of different behind-the-scenes activities
because everybody gets what that is.
Everybody knows what a wallet is.
It is reversible. I can abandon my wallet if I decide that that's not any good.
You know I don't want to be associated with that anymore. I can make a new
wallet whereas I can't make a new fingerprint.
Now that's an interesting point. That's an interesting point. That's an interesting point.
That's right. And see the whole world is moving very closely to the biometric. You know, we
must have a digital identity to, you know, for fraud, for this, for that. And I mean,
it's, it is completely giving up the game. If we don't educate people about what they
lose if they make that move. Yeah. Yeah, just like you know the eat the EU is gonna be launching their central bank digital currency in October. has basically taken the non workable version of this idea to where they instead of trying to pound out social media, which they
tried for the first several years, they realized that it was much better for tracking. So they've now attached, you know,
people's online activity to their credit scores. And so, you know, and when I say credit score, I mean, down to like, whether you are allowed to shop for food. So, you know, if you come against the government, then, you know, first of all, you become like nobody wants to touch you online.
But even if you're in somebody's circle that says something bad about the government, you're now starting to lose your credit score. And so you may not be able to drive beyond a certain territory. You may not be able to buy food.
Well, that's happening now in China. So it's that.
Right. Yeah, exactly.
But but wait, back up a minute, back up a minute. And I know we're pretty clear up against the hour, but you got my brain
is gonna come out probably stupider than it when I intended but in theory, let's pretend
the three of us who are billionaires, we can do whatever we wanted, right?
We had enough money to just do whatever fell into our head, okay?
In theory, why couldn't we create a credit card that is, has some blockchain verification that I am who I say I am.
Let's put aside what I mean by that. I don't even know what I mean by that. What
would prevent that?
Oh I lost Judy. Does anybody else hear her?
Yeah, I think the physical nature of it is where I feel like that's what they tried to do when they added the chips to the cards.
the and and part of the problem is my endgame is so focused on one thing that I know is worth billions of dollars that I can't let it go and I probably should
no no but you shouldn't
you know I keep going back to one way or another my friends if we could figure out a way to create blockchain audiences that advertisers can buy
I can I can figure out how to get advertisers to be able to buy these people. I'll figure that out.
Yeah. I don't know how to figure out the other parts.
Do you mind if I, if I asked Neera to speak, he, um, he's,
he's been waiting and I finally recognized it. Neera, go ahead, please.
Hi, hello. I, hello. I just wanted to talk about the segmentation.
You said there will be a segmentation and what do you mean by that?
It means that in the world there is an account or an agent for every task that I want or for the main task I want? How does it work?
Exactly, I don't understand. Or is it like now we have the, for example, the Ethereum wallet and
we can do several accounts and I think if you don't do funding between the accounts, it's not linked.
Is it like that or it's another way with the gig?
I want to tokenize AI agents.
So I want AI agents to be your asset.
Nobody has to know that it is you, Judy, who owns that AI agent, but the AI agent is yours. So I can see the AI agent in your wallet,
and you can tell the AI agent what to do. And that's it. That's sort of an in-between
segmentation, because I can have another AI agent, I can have lots of tokenized AI agents in my wallet.
I can have another AI agent, I can have lots of tokenized AI agents in my wallet.
Right.
And the stores and the things that the wallet interacts with, it doesn't matter to the other
platforms, whether you are who you are.
All it cares is that it can verify that what's in the wallet is in the wallet and it'll sell it to
cares is that it can verify that what's in the wallet is in the wallet and it'll sell it to you.
you.
Correct.
tokens to work, you know, it needs something to work. For example, to pay the
to pay for the transactions. So the funding should come from somewhere and when you are
funding it, is there a way to know like now we have that?
Well, I think Judy, the funding could be split. If Judy's saying that advertisers would love to attract these AI agents and they should be bargaining
with my AI agent to give so the AI agent tells me go buy shoes over there I don't
think that people who own these agents are going to have to pay for everything
there should be I don't yeah no in you know, this is where venture capitalists do come up.
In my mind, this is an advertising driven business.
I mean, just to give you order of magnitude, I'm going to get very specific.
Today, I could buy digital ads.
In batches of a thousand, right there tells you wait a minute
thousand doesn't sound high quality but okay and a typical batch of a thousand
is called a CPM cost per thousand I could get a thousand quote impressions
aka quote people for ten bucks five bucks if I really don't care, two bucks. In this world, it may not even be a
CPM model, it'll be there are only X number of people. That's what I love about
it. The laws of scarcity are now asserted. In the traditional digital world, there's
no laws of scarcity. A publication could whip up two new pages and all of a
sudden there's millions more impressions available
There's only going to be X number of people who care about any given thing on any given day So I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I gotta get shoes for my kids
I go into the agent go in that moment
It sends a request to the ad platform that is quote. I'll create and say, okay
Today we have a million people who are
just in buying sneakers from all across the world. Advertisers do you want to
reach them? This is how I imagine it so this is why I think it's an
advertising driven business. If we take the advertising out then I don't know
how you know people would have to pay for then I don't know how, you know, people would have to pay
for it.
I don't know what their appetite will be to pay.
I honestly don't know.
I don't have a good answer for that.
So let me propose something, Judy, a way to think about blockchain is it is possible that
blockchain can act as sort of a bulletin board.
So in your world, in your example, I wake up and I say today is the day that I want my AI agent to go
buy shoes. And I post it to on chain.
And that's a public,
that's a public declaration that my AI agent wants to go buy shoes.
And if everybody does that and then Judy has a platform that says, OK, I'm
advertising, I've got an advertiser who wants to sell shoes.
It can go scantain, find people who have looked at how it put their want ads up
on this bulletin board and then to the
advertiser the question is how are you going to get to be an intermediary
that's interesting I don't know I guess you have the business I guess well that
is the fact exactly how a category of ad tech works now, which is called the DSP
So right now as an advertiser I go into my DSP, which is a platform It's a buying platforms is no different than going into Facebook and buying ads
Right and I tell the DSP I want these kinds of profiles those kinds of whatever geography whatever and
It this DSP demand side platform goes out and looks
for publishers that they've signed up who have inventory that against that
audience. We're turning the model on its side to say okay forget about tracking
people, forget about trying to know who's a mother versus a man, forget all of that.
Here's a hundred people, a000 people, a million people,
whatever the number is who are interested in your product right now.
Do you want it? That's what a demand side platform is.
It's just a place where advertisers can buy advertising.
I actually created a demand side platform.
I put it on the shelf digitally because today,
DSPs are only used to buy crappy programmatic ads,
which is something we do not our client won't do. So I don't need it, but I got it. So a
DSP is just that intermediary and it's easy to create. It's just not that hard. I love
the idea of this bulletin board concept, right?, so in theory my DSP would read the bulletin board and say okay
A thousand people want this a million people want that it could be for that requests it could be for anything mm-hmm
We're just going back to the advertiser and saying these are verified people
Right you know fine blind you're not buying impressions that are attached to nobody right I the word. I thought y'all's was a pretty darn good.
Okay, there it is. I was wondering if it was working again.
I think that really was the last word. You put these minds together and you kind of see that this is really, it's, it's a digital handshake that needs to happen, but they always
kind of sell it to us that we have to give up something we don't want to give up in order to have that. And I just
think that, you know, what we need is decentralization at such a core level. And you know, what's coming next with our
operating systems is really disturbing on the AI side of things. And so, I mean, I would love
for, you know, instead of starting by saying, OK, Windows wants me to attach my preferred Microsoft email to my
computer, and my computer is connected to my internet service provider, and my internet service provider and my internet service provider shakes hands along the way with everything that my
computer is going to do. And, you know, so I just, that's kind of where my thoughts about this began is like, where can
decentralization actually cut off all these different parts? And most people are not going to want to have to say,
okay, I'm going to, you know, get security for my browser, security, you know, firewall for my computer, I'm gonna get security for my browser, security firewall for my computer.
I'm gonna use pay for a VPN program
to pretend that I'm not who I am.
And I haven't even started to sign in.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
So it's like one wallet, just,
and probably there is eventually a different name for it
that people will identify.
But it's a wallet for your online activity. And to me,
the whole other problem dealing with privacy and security, I won't even go there because
it all breaks down if the person gets tricked into handing that information over, et cetera.
Yeah. So you really do have to have digital responsibility. But...
Judy, it took us about five, six times
talking through this, too. But but we are getting somewhere.
Yeah, yeah.
I really encourage folks, maybe get online. There was a book by
Ted Chang, I'm not announcing his name right called exhalation.
It's a bunch of short stories. Great book. I strongly recommend the book. But there's one short story in there called the Life Cycle of Software Objects.
This was written in 2010, just to be clear. When you think about agents, AI agents, I
encourage you to read that story. It's a fascinating insight into how AI agents can actually evolve.
At what point, to your point,
Gordon about responsibility, what is our responsibility?
This takes it to a literary extreme,
which obviously when you read those stories, you'll see
how intimate the relationship between what will be people and their agents will become.
And I do think it will be into I do think it will be absolutely how we live just like
now.
We used to say, let's Google it, we're going to say, let's AI it or, you know, maybe you
call your AI agent something. Um, I think that will be transformative in the same way that internet was
transformative and having lived through that transformation, the internet, I
could feel it in my bones.
I think people are just, this is another technology.
It's not, it's not just another thing.
It is the next iteration as dramatic as internet.
I honestly believe that.
And this gives us a chance to redo it.
See you guys give us a chance to redo it.
Cause we got a lot wrong.
I worked at Bell labs.
We didn't deal with, uh, you know, encryption and, and not, we thought
who would need to anonymize what they're doing.
Honestly, we were that behind.
We missed so many things.
So many things.
This is a chance to redo it.
It is.
So that's why I'm so excited because it's like, fix all the mistakes that we made in version one.
100%. That 100% we want to do that.
And see, John and I get to be the contrarians through the whole process so that we can fine tune you know being the good guys.
Right.
That is.
When do you think that we will have the things because some people they say in six months,
some some they say in one year. When do you think that people like me will use the AI to
So as Google, as I use Google now.
as Google as I use Google now?
I don't think agents are going to be available or useful to masses for at least three years.
Because again, Stephanie, you alluded to this before.
It has to be developed to do these this complex task.
It's not just going to you can't just pull an AI, just a single AI and say, okay, go
do all these things.
In other words, you're gonna have to create roads
for the AI agents.
So we're creating right now an AI agent
that lets you buy media without having to go to programmatic
and buy directly from publishers in an automated way.
So that's why I think it's a way off.
People are gonna have, you know,
businesses are gonna have to decide
which AI agent capabilities they wanna attack. Right. So that's, I think it's a way off. People are going to have, you know, businesses are going to have to decide which AI aging capabilities they want to attack.
Right.
So that's I think it's going to it's going to take a while for it
to roll out to a consumer level.
That's that's my opinion.
I could be wrong.
I agree.
And I think it's also that the next year or so is going to be where
a lot of fear is developed because open AI and their competitors
are kind of rushing to the game before thinking, thinking, we
just thought through more what-ifs in the past 40 minutes than any of them have considered, and they're like on the $500
billion side. So, you know, we're going to run into a lot of bad scenarios for agents that they'll have to work out. And
then from there, it's going to be very obvious that in the marketplace,
there are a lot of really good uses for it.
And that's why I attack it at a, at a functional level first.
And start at the end game.
That's why I love the idea of Wallace.
It's not a new concept.
I think the problem with blockchain has always been, it's too new a concept.
People don't get it.
They don't, they get it, but they don't really get it. And what do I do with it?
This is it's a wallet the fact that it's blockchain in the background who cares. I mean I care you care we care
But nobody else cares
That's what makes it exciting and then where's the money?
Lies with the advertising because advertising is largely broken right now. It's really a broken model.
And that is what drove the first internet.
So if we could, like you say, do it over again, so it's not so intrusive,
that is that is always going to be a moneymaker.
Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly right.
And I'll put another like kind of interesting to add the
urgency to it because like I think it's amazing from the ad
tech side of things. There's your use case, you know, there's
something that needs the solution. On on the other side
of like why somebody must come up with a good model for it is
I've and I've mentioned this to you, Stephanie in the past to
I won't use the person's name, but somebody who had pretended to be the real Satoshi
not to be at the time and right so their whole idea of this model and it's
patented you know if they weren't found to be a fraudster then this would be a
much bigger concern but their idea for that is the tokenization is happening
like on the internet side of things, and they are the
token, and everybody has to pay for everything. And so there's a
version of this where in the name of, you know, in quotes,
decentralization, like every piece of information you're
trying to get together is almost like a digital handshake that
your money is leaving your wallet as you're looking things up because everybody owns the intellectual property to everything that's out.
Yeah.
And so we have to be, you know, that's where I think like where if you own the concept of, you know, the wallet is the thing that protects you from the platforms, but the platforms are able to verify everything they wanted to know. Boom, you can interact any way you want.
I'd love to hear you flesh that out, Gordon,
another time.
I should probably wrap this up.
I'm so relieved and happy that you two found each other today.
Thank you very much.
And I bet you two could go on, but I probably
should respect everyone's time. Um, my, my parting thought would be that I've been writing all week about how AI
agents are going to, everybody is going to rush to do AI agents and some of them
won't have great business plans.
They're just going to try to get into the market.
They're just going to try to get into the market.
And if we don't clear up a way to help them define how to signal quality, it's going to
be crypto all over again.
That's my thesis.
That there will be a flood of imitators and there will be a bunch of consumers who don't know anything about them and
they'll just speculate on whichever AI agent sounds the best and I really don't
want to see that happen again. I don't want AI agents as meme coins so this is
a way to measure productivity and I really like that Judy. Yeah no I I
completely agree. Gordon feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. Just Judy Shapiro.
Happy to connect. But I agree with you. There is going to be a lot of gold miners looking to just
cash in and they're going to create crappy stuff. The only good news is, technically,
creating an AI agent is crazy complicated. It's really hard.
That is good news. Yeah.
It's really, really hard. I mean, it's really hard. So I don't know if you're familiar with
blade servers, but you know, when when blade servers were coming up and they were trying
to connect different servers to do different things in a coordinated way, you know, that
was two years worth of work.
And that's what we're talking about, just servers,
like linking up servers so that they kind of make it as one.
Um, it's not easy.
We worked with MSN and it,
you know, we're throwing everything they have at it and it wasn't easy.
It's taken us probably about a year and a half to do.
Well, I am relieved in the sense that there won't
be good working products but I'm also afraid because people will claim they
are. I mean that's what they do with crypto. Oh yeah you know we're really
great but I should I should probably I'm so sorry I enjoyed this thoroughly. I'm so sorry. I enjoyed this thoroughly. I'm here as always. So anybody wants to brainstorm?
Follow Judy, follow Gordon, NUR and Brave and Golden and Lexifix and DeFi King and Dr.
Fart. You're all familiar to me as geeks. Thank you very much. Robbie's
not here today, so come back next week and Robbie will host. Thanks everyone.
Thank you. Have a great afternoon everyone. Bye bye.
Bye bye.
Thank you. Yn ystod y cyfle hwn, mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
