We're here we are we are on right at eight postuality is a must look at us go we are
just two silly foxes sitting in a silly stage on silly twitter uh when warp cast spaces one
might ask and to which i say i have no idea but that could be pretty cool um right on and
we're just waiting for wi-fi to show up which i'm super stoked about we have a pretty packed agenda
today everyone stays tuesday wednesday it's tuesday right yeah yeah today's tuesday
happy tuesday everyone it's a great time um got a really awesome fun space for everyone hello
thor swap yes hello thor swapping we have tim here uh who should also be up on stage speaking
today on shapeshift is shapeshift behalf question mark uh which is super super fun let's get him up
on stage boom now it's not just me monologuing oh and we have our wi-fi friend up here as well
uh hello hello good morning good morning sir good morning good afternoon good evening wherever
you are in the world evening for me yeah there we go good evening to you then if that's uh your
local time zone let me just grab tim up here real quick um i guess maybe tim if you want to request
to speak or we can uh get you up here real quick how is uh how has your week been so far how is uh
how is how did monday treat you i guess on tuesday it's your evening so you've already been through
monday and tuesday how was how was tuesday give me a forecast for how my tuesday's gonna go
uh back man back but good packed but good hey we'll take it
yeah how was your monday it was it was wonderful i you know actually it's funny you mentioned um
packed but good you know almost everyone i've talked to you in the crypto space you know it
has said you know since basically last week or something everyone's sort of shaken off the new
year's sort of slumber slash slump and everyone is now back in uh back in in in sort of the swing
of things and now things are moving faster than ever which is actually um pretty great honestly
just to just see people excited about it you know granted i think we're all probably some of the
most passionate people here but um it's really great to see like things really just starting to
fly uh at least in terms of just things happening so i totally relate to that a lot of things are
happening in in d fly and especially in the cross chain ecosystem uh sector and also you know we're
very very happy about this partnership and i know that we have you know a full agenda here so
yeah we do yeah we do and so without further ado it looks like tim is up here we have a life on
the audience i'll try to make you guys a co-host uh at some point but today we are here to chat
about in case you didn't know uh and you couldn't read the title you know maybe english is is
difficult for you which is totally okay in which case what i'm saying won't help either but we're
gonna carry on regardless uh we are here to chat about uh trading and bridging with lifi
uh on app.shapeshift.com and we have some really cool stuff that just recently was was launched
um some the multi-hop tech that uh sort of lifi is sort of thrown together with us chatting today
we have two representatives we have one from the shapeshift side and one from the lifi side
uh and why don't we kick it off i know we already did sort of a brief pseudo intro but let's like
formally uh introduce sort of uh our speakers today so sam why don't you kick it off
gm gm i hope everybody can hear me yes yes you're good bueno oh um i am the product
workstream lead at shapeshift al uh so like with all things product that's a synthesis of like
engineering design go to market operations all all the stuff trying to get all the the
different work streams aligned so that we ship products to users who care about it and we talk
to them and find out what they want to change or what else they would like to do so today is a
really special day we're very excited um multi-hop was something that was always meant to unlock the
new phases and uh sort of new paradigm in the way that we look at the interface for shapeshift um
and it was built specifically with lifi in mind so stoked to be here and uh glad to chat
wonderful well welcome tim and from the lifi side of things we have uh our friend here
yes servers or andre as other people in uh real life know me but yeah you know you have multiple
personas in in crypto uh yeah i'm the head of defi so basically the guy who's trying to sell
to the product to team our product uh yeah head of defi is is such a broad term and i get that
you know each company is deciding if it's if they want to make it more like a sales role a bd role
or you know more like actual product dev uh for us it's it's a combination i guess so
handling all the partnerships handling the defi go-to market some of the more uh you know new
chains that we're gonna add strategy so basically everything defi and i know that you know that's
pretty broad but uh still for us working in the cross-chain sector we know we're focused on
one thing and one thing only you know providing the best uh swap experience from one chain to the
other or actually also for you know same chain swaps and that you do and that you do very well
that is an awesome it is a very awesome and very important thing uh you know i'm seeing more and
more people as i'm having these conversations you know they might maybe they're they were
centralized or they were ex-centralized and they're really really seeing the value right in in
cultivating and curating a really uh potent and really inclusive defi ecosystem inside of their
inside their spaces so hats off to you for doing such an excellent job and continuing to really
just you know be be the the tip of the spear there for life i for for that uh for for expanding
and continuing to create an awesome experience within defi um damn i'm gonna have to update my
title head of defi sounds awesome it sounds yeah i actually yeah going good yeah it does actually
and it's uh like for me it's just easier to you know sell to partners than being you know
a sales representative because usually people are like especially in crypto i guess
sales and bd has a stigma like you know i know that you're always trying to sell me your api
like yeah i don't want that but if you're talking to a head of defi you know and you're a defi guy
then oh you know you might have something interesting to say i'll i'll take some notes
there i i might have to change my title and i will think of something it's like chief chief
memer and friend maker and people talker i don't know there's something in there that sounds a
little bit better than marketing or growth um anyways it's pleasure to meet you too thank
you both for for having taking some time taking this uh 50 minutes or so out of your day to chat
a bit um i really want to chat a bit about um multi-hop on shapeshift i mean i guess that's
the multi-hop is is you know powered by lifi you know lifi is the underlying tech that makes this
feasible but let's start from you know what the user is experiencing uh and how they experience
multi-hop on shapeshift uh and i'd love sim to explain that a little bit and then maybe we could
get the the interface perspective and then chat a little about um how lifi has sort of made that
happen and sort of the plans that are going to next uh so tim could you share a bit more about
sort of what what is multi-hop what does it mean what does it do how do you interact with it on
shapeshift why is it so exciting what does it unlock you know i guess those are like eight
questions but feel free to just choose one and roll from there yeah that's that's a lot um
so i would say that um what's most exciting about multi-hop is the potential in the future
that it unlocks um but at its core it's basically just like adding more routes and swappers and
smashing them together so normally when you want to go from what we're building towards is basically
any asset um when you want to go from like stay curve on optimism to like um i don't know pick
your favorite chain i don't know some sort of random new l2 on some other thing there's a
cross chain rails usually facilitated by thor chain they're excellent but there's also essentially
a hop and a swap that you have to basically enable to get from one place to another
so you think of it as like this routing going through it and lifi happens to be like that's
basically one of their core businesses um and so now that we've got multi-hop in there
when you go to a certain route and you want to go from one asset to another and it doesn't say
happen to be powered by like a simple bridge or isn't something that happens to be on thor chain's
rails coughing at the manlets in the corner um then as a result lifi should pop up to give you
the option to either swap and get to the asset that you want on the other end or the other way
around bridge over and then swap once you're on the other side and the reason this is important
is because we've kind of realized from talking to lots of users that swapping bridging and um you
know moving between these different routes tends to get a little bit confusing if they don't know
what they want to do and so this allows us to break the ui into like more interesting ways for
people to find routes that they want to get to their final destination quote unquote um and it
starts to get really interesting once we do things like we plug um you know really long tail crazy
new things that are popping up on like these layer twos or even i guess they're called layer
threes now if you're in the base ecosystem which doesn't make any sense to me for sure
why not um you plug like a bridge into like another cross-chain rail and you can do basically
two hops in one which is pretty awesome we also deployed a timeline view so if you've got multiple
transactions going in a row and you are going to take several steps you'll get to see them all in a
convenient way and approve everything in line which is a lot easier than you know losing the
transactions and forgetting where you were so that's a that's a mouthful stop there that was
super awesome and i i really something i really am curious personally uh for for android answer
is just chatting a bit more about the tech behind uh multi-hop within life i i you know something
i've noticed at least in the shapeshift app is sometimes you know i'm thinking oh i'm gonna do a
cross-chain swap i'd love to use store chain or you know i'm expecting i'm gonna use store chain
and i'm like oh they're gonna give me the best rate and then i compare uh rates and i actually
see lifi sometimes will give me a better rate um by doing a bridge and a swap or a swap and a bridge
or you know some sort of flavor of for combination of those um so i'd love to chat more with you and
hear more from your perspective about how how this sort of came when when when this came to
fruition on your side and sort of how how you guys are continuing to optimize there
um to make sure you can add more rates and you know proliferate that more yeah sure uh also
shout out to store chain and store swap our our friends we're very big fans of their tech and i
guess that we're we'll get to the partnership with them uh in a sec but yeah about lifi so
in very simple terms and you know i'm i'm i guess that i'm just echoing what dim said dim said but
we are a multi-chain you know transaction real protocol so we are enhancing and streamlining
user experience within you know an ever expanding defy ecosystem so we are essentially serving as
the railway system facilitating transactions across different blockchains you know this this
is the first layer very very simple and to enable this multi-chain functionality
lifi aggregates fundamental defy components necessary to facilitate those transactions so
for instance it aggregates bridges tax aggregators chains taxes and lately solvers
bringing them all together to create you know a very efficient and integrated system so
this makes the swapping bridging and overall transaction process significantly more guess
efficient and also it allows us to provide the best price guarantee due to you know our
comprehensive aggregation algo uh i'll stop here because i don't want to you know rumble
you know definitions in our uh mission vision and and so on but yeah this is what we're we're
doing in short and you know multi-hops any to any swaps it's exactly uh but dim dim said uh
you know it can be a swap and a bridge it can be a swap bridge swap if you're going from
let's say an exotic l2 asset to another long tail asset on the destination chain
that that actually that was a really great answer i really appreciate that uh i i guess
you sort of piqued my interest here what's what's sort of one of the would you say is that one of
the most wackiest or craziest routes that you've seen lifi offer uh or at least in terms of like
random long tail small market cap like thousand dollar liquidity to somehow wrangling your way
into something totally unrelated do you have like a a pair off the top of your head you might
might think over a tri-pair uh yeah i mean so this this is an interesting question because
it unlocks one of our latest features i mean it's not really a feature it's more like a
new liquidity source that we started to aggregate which are solvers so for those who don't know
solvers are basically the guys or you know the the big brave behind cow swap uh one infusion
uni swap x they are the market makers sort of say that are finding the routes and that
are solving for your trade so we're now working directly with them and this means that we can
support you know those wackiest routes so for example going from an long tail asset on optimism
you can now swap bridge swap and also mint so natively mint a mu uh token from beefy for
example which is yield bearing so or a three curve crypto from yearn finance and all this
happens you know all into one transaction which are actually a lot of steps especially if you're
doing a contract call on the destination chain because you know like wackiest routes like you
know you're going from one shipment to the other like everyone's doing this doing that but actually
minting uh yield bearing asset or a pure d fight token which is like an lp token from two tokens
it's it's something pretty pretty advanced and more and more people are are doing this
that's crazy that is that is incredible it's it's amazing to think as someone who i remember back in
2014 2015 like the only transactions are using shapeshift um it was just a huge pain in the ass
and it was like totally clunky and gross and it blows my mind sometimes just take a pause and like
think back to you know how far we've really come in terms of having a really phenomenal user
experience that lets me one do more things with my assets which is i love that or anyone really
and two like you know gets me really really great um great so like what's what are you doing with
like you know you you mentioned solvers like what are you doing next in terms of um like making
that better like are there any like large things that are coming soon to wi-fi we should sort of
keep our ears out for yeah so in terms of large things so we are focused solely on aggregation so
that means that our core mission is to find always the best route for the end user and that you know
there's not only adding the new tax that supports a liquidity pair that others don't have because
right now you know we are working directly with tax aggregators like one inch and zero
x which usually pick up those more exotic taxes so yeah i guess that uh the solvers are a big part
of that also we are exploring you know cashless transactions this year uh similarly to how you
know calswap and one inch fusion are are doing it and to be in a way that it can be cross chain
which is very hard because cross chain sold cross cross chain guestless transactions are
pretty hard to to get to and we are trying to to get there to offer you know obviously for
for the end user the best price experience uh but it's it's hard to do aggregation i can tell you we
are you know a 45 people team working only on this one point uh and it takes a lot of time you
know it took us i think three years now to get where we at right now uh you know eight eight out
of ten uh biggest wallets are using us metamask phantom wallet uh some of you know you you know
them all we have over 150 b2b partners this effort was you know a very slow and grindy
pushing each day to get uh to get where where we are just by focusing on you know cross chain
aggregation and same chain aggregation because for a very long time everyone knew us just like
you know oh yeah you're doing cross chain swaps but cross chain swaps also mean you know a swap
and a swap on the destination chain which are actually same chain swaps because the cross chain
swap is divided into you know multiple multiple parts swap bridge and uh swap if necessary on
on the destination chain uh yeah i mean i i i know that you know this this is not a lot of alpha that
you were probably looking for uh but boring is good boring is good boring is consistent boring
is reliable and honestly you know from from what i've heard from folks it's like if you
as long as you can expect like if you click on something and it works like that's a win
right and it works out like 99.9 percent of the time like that is that is great and i will take
that any moment of the day especially seeing how much like how much you guys have like developed
in the last three years i wouldn't say boring at all uh i'd say rather exciting that it you know
that it's it's just carry on as normal so i question for myself and this you know forgive
my ignorance here um i would really love to understand you know mentioned you mentioned
lifi's you know building this thing for three years you know you see these integration
announcements oh you know blah blah blah is using lifi um how is lifi like making money are you guys
charging fees on on stuff on the back end that's sort of hidden or is there like a little bit of
like sort of a one-inch model uh yeah like tell me more there yeah good question so
we also have jumper not exchanged and you know this answer is has multiple facets so first we
have jumper not exchange which is our b2c front end it's you know owned by lifi and we're now
hiring a special dedicated team and we'll spin jumper out of of lifi to be treated basically
like any other integration if you go right now on jumper exchange you will see a pretty big banner
on top of the website which says we don't take a fee motherfuckers and the pepe that's exactly
what you will see you know i i i kid you not go there on jumper and see that we're not taking
a fee to our end users you know for for b2c now on on the b2b side of things with wallets with
enterprise partners uh it really depends you know from from deal to deal it's it's more like an
api model or you know a kind of a fee split the industry standard is around for swaps is around
15 to 30 basis points so we usually are in in that range as well depending on you know no
no partner is the same as the other so it it really depends uh but yeah i guess that you
know the the standard fee is uh between 15 and 30 basis points for for b2b integrations
with some of them it's just volume only because they're not taking a fee and you know they're
building a public good so we will not take a fee in in in some instances uh but right now we are
you know still vc funded we closed series a uh a year ago so we have a pretty good run away
and yeah we will you know we want to build this as a true business don't only rely on uh on a token
or you know on vc money nice that's super cool you as you're talking actually i pulled this up
and i implore everyone on this call to go and type in i mean do your own research don't type in if
you don't want to but i typed in jumper exchange uh and actually you weren't kidding there's a banner
at the top and no caps it says we don't take a fee motherfuckers there's like a peepo with
sunglasses and a little juice box and i think it made me laugh super hard dude that's that's that's
wonderful i love that uh so go check it out first it's really it's it's different if you see it
yourself than me just describing it so definitely go check it yeah it's yeah we wanted to make it
very clear that we're not charging our end users on jumper because people were like yeah i'm not
going to swap on jumper because you know you're just taking fees on top of the fees that i'm already
paying no we're not doing that i love it i love it i guess we i'd love to hear more and just share
shapeshifts uh position in terms of like fees and sort of how how we're sort of structuring
is there because it's been sort of a point of contention i'd maybe not within the community
within the shapeshift community maybe not contention is not a great word but it's been a
point of change at least when where shapeshift is yeah i guess to give some reference here
shapeshift um used to be and you know completely free no added fees on anything uh like literally
anywhere on the platform it was like super great uh it still is super great the way it is now but
i'd love to have tim share a bit more about sort of what shapeshifts been up to in terms of like
the fee landscape you see a lot of interfaces now you know adding fees on top of things you
know doing you know token stake get fee reward whatever uh but i know it's something relatively
new to shapeshift but i was wondering if tim could share a bit more there in terms of you know what
shapeshifts up to what we're looking forward to uh in the future in terms of fees and sort of where
that's sitting in the landscape yeah so i mean the current meta from all products i live in silicon
valley so i i follow i'm obsessed with becoming a better product person every day pretty much
the current meta is put product in market charge for it build what users want um so i'm glad to see
the people at the top of your jumper exchange i'm really excited to hear other data points
about that meta but i think it's just way simpler to just provide great execution which you guys are
already focused on if i would share anything from the shapeshift experience it was a pretty
hot point of contention because unfortunately dows don't have the same vc mechanisms um or as
easy a capital cycle to tap into um to give us a softer runway so shapeshift has been battling
really hard um ever since like i think like before i joined um to get revenue neutral um
the good news is um governance passed a proposal in september and we implemented that in december
um up and until september or so uh our revenues are really struggling and so we were trying to
do this convoluted thing for users which they couldn't understand which is basically not charge
fees but then make up for it with grants on the back end and be a public good for everybody which
is honestly a noble goal and part of our north star in the future like i think we just tried to
do it a little bit too early and then governance decided that they wanted to charge fees based on
the holding of fox the token the governance token underneath everything which is awesome for three
reasons number one fox has been around for a really long time it's one of the first fair drops i think
they're called nowadays um just sent to a bunch of people that were inspired as shapeshift the
company dissolved and the dow moved forward with the same product mission um and now if you hold
up to a million fox if you hold a million fox and more which i think at current values is like i
don't know i haven't checked price let's say it's three cents thirty thousand dollars something
like that your trades are free if you are trading on the platform under a thousand dollars your
trades are free and then there's a prismoid curve based on your holdings looking at snapshot api
which is a really fancy way of saying curve go down mostly midway to jedi pretty much on how
much fox you hold um which is actually really innovative it adds a bunch of utility to fox
so that's the fee story in shapeshift in a nutshell um you know what we were inspired on
doing and the way it's sort of changed over time uh and the good news there is revenues have slowly
doubled month on month um and the majority of it happens to be driven by thor chain so we're hoping
to see multi-hop unlock more routes perhaps that pushes more stuff through wi-fi we really don't
know it actually is up to users on the other end to show us um what they're willing to pay for and
the size they tend to do um luckily we're getting really good at a lot of uh data wrangling we're
very data driven and we've been moving a lot of our stuff to flip side you know for for me coming
from maker and um other parts of defi it was very weird to not have like a dashboard like in dune
we could look at turns out being multi-chains very hard so shout out flip side um they have most
everything where we can derive revenue and see addresses and see transactions and understand
the health of the dao and we're actually building a dashboard in combination with our treasury team
which is kind of awesome so that's the fee story in a nutshell and where it's kind of going
nice i actually i had no idea he said it was a sigmoid sigmoid curve is that what he said
prismoid curve prismoid prismoid there we go i was i i was i'm glad you defined that because
you said that in my head i was like smooth brain also before 9 a.m smooth brain smooth curve yeah
smooth brain smooth curve no wrinkles um it's not a bad marketing thing anyways so you're welcome
thank you thank you awesome so actually the one thing that i want to sort of applaud
lifi for doing but i i think shapeshift might be able to attest to a little bit here um is how how
easy i think from at least and forgive me i'm a marketer slash bd person and so when someone says
it's really easy i just believe that face value and i don't actually look at it and sometimes it's
a lot harder but from my understanding you guys have done a really great job at sort of making
you know integrating lifi into these different wallets these different interfaces really really
really easy really really really efficient you guys and clearly like if you go to the lifi discord
um you know you'll you'll go in there and you'll see oh new integration new integration like almost
every day it's like bro like you guys are everywhere it's crazy um can you sort of speak
more to sort of how you've uh i guess server risk you speak more to how you how you've sort of viewed
the development of that you know onboarding process into the lifi ecosystem from different
wallets sort of you know your mentality of how you've sort of adopted that that flow there
yeah sure uh i can tell you it wasn't easy like two years ago no one wanted to talk to us because
you know we were not a household name no one knew us we were basically no one in the uh in
the ecosystem but it was you know as i said a very very slow grind always kept on pushing
and metamask was actually our biggest win back in the day which was you know how we want that
uh we have you know great angels great investors uh we pitched ourselves uh a lot to metamask
showing a lot of data on how we are better than just relying on uh a single vendor like a single
bridge a single uh a single uh decks and yeah that was that really opened a lot of other
new integrations and right now it's you know we are a b2b company of course so we have a pretty
good and strict sales and b2b processed you know with a lot of targets that we're running after
and we're trying to to get to use uh lifi and you know we we think we have a pretty good
business case for uh for wallets especially because wallets are relying a lot on swaps and
bridging or you know swap or any to any swaps you can you know some some of the wallets have
a separate flow some of the wallets have uh one flow for swap bridge swap and wallets are relying
a lot on this because it's another feature which is a nice feature that they can offer to the users
but they can also monetize a lot heavily on it because they already have the stickiness of
the users inside the wallet so you know they can charge users in crypto a lot of money and
you probably notice that users in crypto don't really care that much about fees in general
because you know one is your you're paying in you know eth or whatever other assets and you won't
you know do the math for you know five bucks ten bucks yeah it doesn't really matter when you're
you know you're you're bridging uh and you you're probably gonna you know flip a shit coin and lose
you know 10 in the next five minutes you just want to do the trade this is one part for for
the users not uh not doing that and the other part is yeah i guess the law of luck numbers in
in general which applies pretty well in in crypto uh but yeah our integrations right now are you
know obviously a lot of a lot of them are inbound you know people are approaching us our
sdk api and widget are all open source all our code is open source anyone can look at it audit
we have a huge back back bounty uh that we're offering out there uh so yeah it was a very
orchestrated process for for the past two and a half to three years that is so admirable i
you know honestly i am i have hats off if i was wearing a hat which i'm not but if i had a hat on
i'd take it off right now uh to say you guys have done a really great job selling selling and you
know sharing that api with the rest of the crypto ecosystem you know for one super useful two super
easy to integrate and use uh and three it just it makes the user experience better right across
the crypto user crypto ecosystem which is huge i really appreciate and this is actually something
i had no idea uh you mentioned about open source i i had no idea that that a lot of this stuff
actually was just fully fully out in the open um which you know it i guess it moves the needle
slightly forward but if i would say if my opinion of life i zero to 100 i was sitting at like 100
and so i can't really go much higher than that but that is also super great to know
i guess i something with shape shift regarding regarding open source you know i i'd love to hear
you know i guess in terms of i guess a question for life i first in regarding open source stuff
have you had any issues with like keeping some of that stuff more so behind the scenes and non-open
source to sort of protect some of the unique solving things that you're doing on the on the
backside of transactions or uh how i was like gone for you in terms of you know keeping that ethos
moving into the future i mean good so we we have been audited four times now and we are actually
planning to start quarterly audits for anything that we want to push in in production because
we are working with bridges and bridges are you know prone to hacks as you know history has shown
us before not all bridges have been hacked but you know many of the bridges have been hacked
and also you know that's true for the taxes and us being an aggregator and never taking custody of
the funds we still have to be uh very very much aware of this and about the open source part uh
yeah i mean we we are you know and this comes from you know the main vision and the core ethos
that crypto has that you know we are operating in in the sunlight we want to be seen and anyone can
you know look at our code audit it and yeah offer feedback nice i think that's super important and
maybe tim can speak more on sort of building in the public or building in public or as you said
building building in the sunlight i think that's something very really really important that i think
as we see it and transition to people using more DeFi layers i think a lot of DeFi you know wallets
you know protocols you know whatever kind of participants are realizing the value of open source
of having anyone you know say be able to come in and say hey like this thing looks a little weird
what are you doing here or just having peace of mind and saying oh you know i can see what's
actually happening here in the code base and i know i'm not getting like some weird stuffs
happening so yes tim can you chat more about sort of what what your experience has been
uh building shape shift building with shape shift and open source um dap and wallet and sort of how
how that's sort of influenced you know what we do how we do it um or if it's influenced it at all
i mean it's very much influenced it so yeah it's like kind of core to the ethos to build in the
open mostly because it allows things to be more globally accessible as far as i can tell and it
also allows for stray um folks to roll in and prove their mettle if they want to actually become a
part of the like community i think it's core to like a dows ethos to have an open source product
um as much as possible open source road maps as much as possible um that also really helps
with alignment um and it also just reduces back and forth um if docs aren't very good you can go
back to the repo to see if someone implements something or vice versa which is really helpful
when you're um just trying to get something to like parody or or gifts get it out for like testing
um i think it unblocks a lot of engineering and product thought um which is really nice
uh it does reduce market advantage as you mentioned um but more and more i think um
folks are just trying to get product to market more more quickly anyway so i think they kind
of build that that ethos anyway one resource i really like in general is actually this book by
nadia eggball i think she got married so i think her she has a new last name but she has this book
called building in public and that's a big part of just the way that i look at building products
in general um i feel like there's it's a trade-off there's definitely more difficulty with being open
source because like you know of all the good folks who could stop by you also get you know
drive-by takes on how bad you are all the time which is very difficult um so that's like quite
problematic but in the end of the day i think it's it's just better to build open source because
then it can live on for the rest of time in case people aren't really there it reduces
bus factors which is also really just kind of cool yeah that's totally actually i you you spark to
thought of my own um just in terms of being open source and i guess and building in public
it's something that's super cool it's on the shapeshift side from from my perspective right
as as the person who spearheads sort of the marketing marketing efforts and growth efforts
here um like it's weird a lot of the marketing i actually all all of the marketing roadmap
and assets and stuff were like our public so if you were to go to the shapeshift notion site
you can see actually you can see the agenda that i'm reading from right now in the notion card
that says twitter space with lifi and here are the speakers here's what we're going to talk about
you know here's what we're going to do tomorrow and all of that is just sort of laid out in a
weekly manner so if you like if you hate spoilers don't do that but if you like spoilers uh you
know that's always a really fun thing you know for the community to be able to do and i think
you know if i just extract that away into sort of you know a code or technical sense it's probably
exciting for users and developers to sort of be able to see you know what's lifi up to
how are the house house things going uh and sort of just really get to get into the depths of things
uh great so i had one last thing before we start wrapping it up and i wanted to extend this invite
to anyone in the audience who's listening um i really would love for this to if you guys have
any questions or comments or concerns for anyone either andre is your ex-service or tim from the
shapeshift side feel free to raise your hand out we can bring you up on stage you can chat
my only request is you know don't call us bad names or call us bad names then laugh about it
and then you know it'll be a fun time so open invite for anyone who wants to jump up here and
chat a bit more and while you're thinking while people are thinking about if they want to do that
or not the very last thing i want to do is circle back to the very beginning of this conversation
which is the whole reason why we came here to chat about uh multi-hop and i you know the very last
sort of takeaway questions i was hoping to to sort of move forward into thinking about in terms of
you know we're thinking about a multi-chain universe you know we talked a little bit about
you know expanding you know the solvers and the way that uh lifi is sort of routing different
places you know can you give me more alpha and this is me explicitly asking can you give me more
alpha on like future chains coming to lifi uh you know aside from asset pairs what is that what is
that looking forward to yeah sure so how we are deciding new chains is usually based on one user
demand and to client demand client demand i mean b2b versus b2c demand so for example with base
chain we saw a lot of inflows going into base in the first 24 hours and we had base on our roadmap
but you know later down uh that month so we you know switched gears and put all our efforts into
shipping base in the next 24 hours which we did to facilitate those uh those flows to base chain
via jumper dot exchange this is you know on on the b2c side uh and now we're seeing a lot of
demand for salona and salona is coming we now have salona via our api and our sdk for our b2b
partners open source you know anyone can can start using it we are going to roll that out to our
widget as well and then to jumper uh for all our users so you know salona is the next big one
after that we are seeing a lot of demand from institutions for bitcoin and you know again
shout out to thorough chain we will work with thorough chain to facilitate those swaps uh
natively for for bitcoin uh you know this facilitating swaps to a non-evm chain is no
walking apart we had such a big lift for salona and it's probably going to be another big lift
for for bitcoin so you know it's not going to happen overnight but there is demand and obviously
it's not going to go anywhere you know we're talking about some of the biggest assets in
in the crypto space uh which are salona and bitcoin other than that in terms of evm chains
we are looking at the op stack chains uh you know we know all of them the big ones i don't
want to say you know any names right now because we are still you know evaluating the
consumer demand but uh yeah we are interested in in that stack uh also zk chains are very
interesting but i i feel that you know i'm i'm a zk maxi and other people are just sleeping on
on this giant which is zk stuff in general uh so you know we're we're expecting for for that to
to pick more steam and uh yeah we're also looking at cosmos for uh for the year and depending on
you know how the flows are gonna are gonna go but in short for now it's salona and bitcoin
salona and bitcoin two giants as you said yourself you know again shouting out our
friend thorchen we love them a ton uh i think thorchen's i was reading in the twitter's this
morning something about salona on thorchen as well so that that's going to be super exciting honestly
i i can't wait for those worlds to meet uh and especially i can't wait for those worlds to meet
specifically on app.shapeshift.com uh the last question i had for you tim's you know similar to
what i was just asking uh andre here you know what can we expect in terms of make new chains or a new
feature coming soon to uh app.shapeshift.com that in the next year what are you looking forward to
coolest thing about being open source and being a dao is that you can go read it on forum.shapeshift.com
i've hosted the themes for the year so one of the biggest changes that um i've tried to spearhead
hopefully of steward well enough is that we focus every quarter on an ecosystem so Q Q1 is
thor plus more um and what that means is really making sure that our swappers on the thorchain
thing long tail any any danny asset swapping are really good um that we're aligned with thorchain's
roadmap to be first to market with some of the other features that are there the thing i'm most
excited about is memo-less swaps i'm sure you guys saw that um obfuscating the wallet away is just
like bang on awesome and it's just going to unleash something that's really cool but there's
also other things we've been researching which is really interesting um but seeing that tweet this
morning about the manlets and the salani ecosystem means that we are going to continue to do whatever
users have demand for um it's been on our roadmap the joke that we had internally was if it could
stay up for longer than six months then we can actually evaluate it it has done so so now we have
to actually evaluate it and figure out how to prioritize salana so chains wise that's where
that's going and then themes wise check it all out on the forum i'm most excited to see what happens
in q3 and 4 this year because um you know when you don't have product market fit trying to tell
everybody what you're going to build is a little silly um but some of the stuff i've been really
excited about is watching what's happening with ordinals on bitcoin i think i'm one of the only
people who's reading like bip's and eip's and his actual github notifications but you know maybe
i'm just a nerd um but i would love to help bitcoin move itself a little forward we evaluated
running a lightning node earlier last year but it just wasn't the right time so there's there's
plenty of things we can do to just unlock that more natively for people which is going to be
super exciting and self is totally obviously because we want you to control everything and
choose shape shift rather than the other way around um there's so many features i can't do
off the top of my head but i do remember that q4's theme was solana v evm v cosmos fight if i
recall correctly so ultimately what that means is we want to hear from you wanting to hear what
users want what do you want to see why how can we do that for you and what can we do to make it
seamless and let you stay in control that's about it just as to just to echo that the best place to
stay up to date as to where to find what's going on with shape shift and sort of our roadmap is
forum.shapeshift.com uh if you have product feedback you can go to uh canny there's a
shapeshift.candy.io um that is dropped yeah and drop some feedback there we'd like literally
almost i don't want to say speak for tim but i'm pretty sure almost pretty much every idea that's
suggested is at least considered for at least 10 seconds like there's some some sort of interesting
ideas that are uh less considered but but i think everyone is taken very seriously especially
because i think ultimately the shapeshift and i think this is the same with lifi is is building
something that you know people people want ultimately want to use and can use and you
know show you know in the in the case of lifi for example through all these integrations have shown
that you know people want to use it and that's because they've built something that people
actually find useful uh and so that's largely what shapeshift is is doing and trying to continue to do
moving forward uh so going to final closing comments uh andre putting you on the spot uh
last last little things to wrap it up what do you have to say any anything you can plug plug
lifi plug you know jumper you can do whatever you want uh the floor is yours thanks yeah so
please follow closely this year a lot of things are gonna happen especially on jumper i don't
want to you know say too much but follow jumper closely this year also a lot of new big big
partnerships are to come uh you know they're still they're still under the radar right now
sort of say but i think that everyone will be impressed by you know the future partners that
we will have this year and for the retail users keep going on jumper we don't take a few mother
fuckers and uh yeah we are sure that we can provide the best route for you let's go i freaking love
that banner dude that's awesome uh and then tim last finding closer closing comments from you before
we wrap things up for the day if not i will give my own closing comments uh and it that's send it
there we go let's let's go right on thanks thanks both again thank you lifi for topping jumping on
the space with us thank you shapeshift thank you tim thanks for everyone for joining in thank you
thor chain for jumping in here as well as all the other folks who've shown their wonderful
smiling emojis or animated nft things it's all super fun to see your smiling faces in the audience
have an awesome tuesday have an even better week i will stay tuned to make sure you give
shapeshift and lifi a follow on twitter if you aren't already to stay up to date
uh as andre was saying uh and i will see you guys around in the metaverse thanks for hanging out
guys have a wonderful tuesday you too have a nice one gm everybody