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TRADING ON CHAIN
Recorded: June 24, 2025 Duration: 2:04:09Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. What is up everyone? Happy Tuesday. It is noon Eastern here on Wolf Financial and we
do one thing and one thing only on Tuesdays at noon. We talk Tesla and boy is there a
lot to talk about. I'm excited for this this space i'm excited for the crew that's
going to join us and boy all the things that are going on right now all the reports
out of austin big weekend for tesla what's up gav yo yo yo big big tesla week in the building
excited to get into the thick of things
sorry somebody got too excited and tried to call me
while I was going into my intro there. This is a huge week for Tesla. Obviously, there's a ton
of videos already coming out. Everybody's seeing the robo taxis running around Austin. I know Omar
and Sawyer and others have been down there. Hopefully, some people will join into the space
today that have had a chance to go out and test these robo taxis.
But it seems like everything's smooth.
Haven't, you know, certainly heard of any accidents or anything like that.
And I think that that's pretty big to get going.
By the way, I can't see anyone else up on stage, but I do hear someone.
Oh, yeah.
John from Test Owners of Silicon Valley.
I got it tested the past two days, so I can speak first.
Jump in.
Tell us about your experience.
Yeah, you know, I'm thinking a lot about this, you know, and I think now that, like, I've
kind of, like, so I've gotten back from Austin into the San Francisco Bay Area.
the San Francisco Bay Area. And, you know, for me, like I became a Tesla investor in 2019
after owning a Model 3 for six months. And it was that moment back in 2018 is when I saw,
you know, Tesla being like an Amazon, right? Once in a lifetime generational company that was truly
just going to change things. And for me being able, I did
about 10 rides in Austin with the robo taxi. And honestly, it was just, this is what the future
holds. This is what I've been waiting for, for seven years. It was a glimpse into that. And,
you know, it was confirmation that you do not need 150 to $ $180,000 Waymo to accomplish this.
And so all of my questions pretty much were answered this weekend as far as, you know,
the unit economics.
You saw it like even based on obviously we know the flat rate right now in the geofence
is like $4.20.
But every Waymo I took was double that, right?
And then also, too, it confirmed that you did not need all the, like, 28 LiDAR cameras or whatever, you know, the insane expense that they have to do.
It confirmed that Tesla is making a robo-taxi today, the Model Y.
They can ramp down this and scale what they currently have because they don't even have to wait on the cyber cap to turn this on
they have a
Model Y which is being produced today and they can scale up depending on the demand in Austin
And I believe my understanding was that the geofence that was launched this weekend was about half of the amount of Waymo
And again, this is just the first test but Standing was that the geofence that was launched this weekend was about half of the amount of Waymo and again
This is just the first test
I dealt with you may have seen the the dirty Tesla video. I was in the car with him
I was actually live streaming when the paramedic went by at night and the robo taxi pulled over
I dealt with like it dropping me off literally at the front of a hotel, of apartment buildings,
getting out at an in-and-out.
I mean, I think the only—I saw a couple of issues,
but you end up having to walk a little bit sometimes to get to the right place.
But man, this for me was just—experiencing it was the biggest mic drop.
It's what I have been waiting for for
seven years it's what like the vision that elon has seen of like whether tesla is worth what it
is today versus whether it's a zero and all this is going to come down to is regulations is going
to be the biggest limiting factor of this um but you know, Tesla is going to win on every aspect.
Like I even I took a couple of Waymo's this weekend. And there's a couple of things that
Tesla can do better that can catch up to Waymo as far as the experience. But, you know, the
actual software is 10 times better in a Tesla than it is in a Waymo. It's partially because Tesla owns the full stack.
And like in a Tesla, you can watch movies,
you can watch YouTube, you can play video games.
In a Waymo, you can only listen to music.
And so it's just like on every facet
when it comes to the unit economics
of how they will scale this thing to being able to sell like not
only cost per mile but also to being able to produce a vehicle that they're already doing
today that's already happening the ride-sharing app is you know going to be an amazing experience
i experienced that that that whole thing i mean no one makes a better user experience than Tesla does. But like I could,
sorry, I could go, I know I'm blabbering a lot right now, but like, it was just like,
it was just such an amazing moment for me personally. You know, it's the moment that
I've been waiting for for seven years. And in every facet, when you talk about the ride sharing
business, like Tesla is going to have an advantage by potentially like 10 X.
Right.
So again, I'll stop blabbing right now, but that was just my experience.
You know, it was truly a blessing to be a part of it.
So shout out to Hans and Chris for letting me be a part of their, their plus ones.
Super cool.
Appreciate you coming on and sharing the experience let's just keep it rolling around
the panel at the start here and then we can dig into additional details uh lincoln excited to
have you here as well would love to hear your thoughts thanks thanks for the unbite hey wolf
um yeah i'm really excited i uh i got involved with tesla in 2019ish, kind of late in the game compared to some of these guys.
And I got my Model 3, and I was excited about the tech.
Then Elon said, we're going to have a million Robotex on the road by the end of 2020, and I was all excited.
It didn't happen, but I didn't give up hope in him accomplishing it.
in him accomplishing it. So I've had a few Teslas now and I've seen these guys like John
and Omar and Sawyer. They've been so passionate about this for so long and they haven't really
lost the vision. You know, there's a long way to go, a lot of work to be done still, but this was really epic.
The bulls are like really reaching.
They were kind of quiet the first day.
And then, you know, the thing I do is I hold spaces.
I'm not a numbers guy.
I like to get people together and talk about these things because we're passionate about it, right? In the last two days, Landon and I have had, I don't know, like 12 hours of space as Landon,
something like that.
And everyone has been so excited.
People just want to be there and hear about the experiences.
And, you know, for me yesterday, I'd seen Omar.
I don't know anyone more into Tesla than Omar.
And seeing him be able to take his first ride and just share his thoughts was really
cool. Only one guy more into Tesla than Omar and that's Gordon Johnson. Sorry, keep going.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I like a couple of things John said because
remember what Elon said, I don't give up. I don't quit. He's going to make this work, and it's going to work better than anything else.
The haters can hate.
They may have to wait a little while sometimes with his timelines.
But look at the cars.
You need a car that doesn't – it's like nothing else.
They don't just do things because people do it.
They think, why do we need this? Do we need this? And then they move forward.
So it's going to be the same thing with the RoboTaxi. They're just,
he knows what he's doing.
They're going to work hard and it's going to get better and better from here.
And I'm really excited for the rollout. Can't wait to take a ride myself.
So totally pumped.
Super cool. Super cool a real quick question uh maybe we could do like a
show of hands who on stage has been uh in a waymo before if you're able to do like a raised hand
because i'm just curious i think most of you guys have been in a waymo um all right so actually well oh gab i actually was in uh i forgot i did take a cypher uh robo
taxi ride on 10 10 it was on a movie lot and stage lot but i did get to go for a ride so
um yeah it's cool very cool so i definitely want to hear as more people get a chance to try these
just like how it compared to like a waymo experience but obviously the biggest differentiator
here and for anyone that's been watching the gigacast the show that i do with omar and soy just like how it compared to like a Waymo experience. But obviously the biggest differentiator here,
and for anyone that's been watching the Gigacast,
the show that I do with Omar and Soy,
you'll really notice what we hone in on is the big difference here is a couple of things.
One, scalability, right?
And scalability, I think, is the name of the game here in several areas when it comes to TurboTaxi. So right now, the exact figures are somewhat debated.
But for a Waymo, you know, you're spending somewhere between, I believe, $150,000 to $200,000 per vehicle. Now, they could use cheaper vehicles. They're using Jaguars. And
unfortunately for them, the model of Jaguar that they're using has been discontinued.
So that puts a bit of a hitch in your step. And, you know, they're going to obviously have to switch over to a different model over there.
And then, of course, with all that camera equipment being put on, it leaves a lot more opportunities for something to break.
Right. Something to, you know, if a camera gets knocked off or you're going through a tunnel and something gets hit.
Right. Pieces like that. But then the big thing in Farzad has always honed in on this number, which is.
thing, and Farzad has always honed in on this number, which is as we get to scale here, you
know, and Tesla is just churning out Model Ys, right, Model 3s, right, all these different pieces,
they can replicate the entirety of the Waymo fleet in five hours right now. In five hours,
they create as many vehicles. So it just seems like the scalability there is so different.
And then, of course, the big piece is, which is, you know, it's never going to be that like I as a car owner,
you know, and owning a Waymo and then can just put that onto the network. It's going to be an
entirely different thing here. So they're really just skipping a lot of steps ahead. But Landon,
I'm sure you are bursting at the seams to jump into this conversation here today. So let me
turn it over to you and hear your thoughts. Man, you know, I love the vehicles. I love the products and I love the people. And we're able
to travel around with these Tesla groups and meet up at the strangest places. You know, I went out
to Chattanooga, Tennessee, which is my farthest drive this year. And the other guys in there,
a lot of the other guys in our group just got back from
Michigan, the top of the country where they went to a summer meetup. And next we got to run out and
get to see his crew and SF at the end of July for the X takeover. So why am I bringing those things all up on RoboTaxi Day? Because these are the people
that Tesla has chosen for early access. And I don't know if we're talking about 15 or 35 people,
but it has been an absolute joy to watch people like John Silicon Valley and Omar and Sawyer and
Chris Dirty Tesla and Brad Ferguson with Rebellionaire and these guys
that are traveling to Austin, as we love to do, to test out the RoboTaxi, which is something that
they own in their own garages in a slightly different version, a lot of them anyway. So
they've got these Model Ys, the newest version.
They're pumping them out of the factory.
Like you just said, Farzad has got it nailed.
They own the supply of their own vehicles.
Yeah, what do we think?
Waymo is moving to Zeker, if I'm remembering correctly.
So, boy, that's going to be great.
If they had any questions about, you know, people worried about future tech, you know, so maybe instead of having all of these LIDARs and other sensors on top of the car, making it look foreign and scary to people where maybe they want to set them on fire for some reason, what's going to happen when they're not the stately Jaguar I-PACE, but they're a
Chinese EV? And so Waymo is just stacking up these obstacles for themselves, and they're
starting to hit these walls. We've seen some great success from Waymo this year, and I'd like to
please encourage them, because I think this is the future of our travel and it's what's going to keep us and our
kids from dying on America's highways. And that's got to be continue to be our number one goal here.
We love the company. Yeah, we want to get rich and drive great cars, but we want to keep our
kids and our families from dying in scores and scores and tens of thousands every year.
We're saying goodbye to family members that don't need to die.
And that's what RoboTaxi is.
So when I wrap this up, I see the products that Tesla's making,
that any one of us listening to this can punch up on Tesla.com,
probably take delivery of within a week without a
traditional dealership, without a traditional car salesman. And then you've got your family in the
safest vehicle that will be continually updated over the air. And I think very soon next year,
you may have in your driveway, depending on where you live in this country
you may have in your driveway the same vehicles we're seeing our influencers and friends
testing robo taxi in the new paid service in austin boy did i cover it all i love these people
i love the product and i love what the software is doing And I'm very happy to be living it and talking to you folks about it.
I love the passion you speak with.
Yeah, ultimately this is,
I mean, the big picture is saving lives, right?
I think we talked about all the other cool
and fun pieces here and convenience
and economy and scale.
And of course, a company that
we believe in the stock a lot,
but saving lives is that number one ultimate thing. Right now, still a lot of people on a regular basis die from car crashes. It's just
completely unnecessary, right? You have largely many of those coming from impaired drivers, right?
And here's a good thing. The car can't drink alcohol. It can't get drunk. So no more, you know,
drunk driving can be just eliminated here.
That's kind of the beauty. Uh, John, I saw your hands up and then I want to get over to Omar so
we can hear about his first experiences or to John drop off stage. Oh, sorry. No, I'm here.
Um, I was talking on mute, but yeah, no, I just wanted to really quickly hit on like Waymo versus,
uh, you know, the Tesla experience.
I mean, you know, I noticed at least in my rides that the Waymo was a lot, you know,
there was it was having a lot more issues on on regular drives.
Right. And I did about three Waymo drives versus about 10 robo taxi rides.
And you definitely felt that the Way mo was struggling a little bit more um but yeah so
i think it's just the overall experience is going to be better in a tesla because also too they have
an insane amount of data versus they have you know they're tackling it from a general autonomy
perspective so not only yes right now is it geofence but they also have the data from that
location um that of tesla's just driving in
the area on autopilot so you're just seeing it the overall experience is just going to be a lot better
um you know in in a robo taxi versus a tesla and it's crazy that this is just the initial launch
yeah right off the bat very smooth mr homars how we doing you having fun over there
hey yeah doing great i'm in a robo taxi right now for about five more minutes and uh it's pretty
great to have a tesla rideshare service so we're meeting up with some other people for some barbecue. And yeah,
you open the app, you call a car, it comes to you without a driver. And it just takes you wherever
you want within the geofence. So I've got to say, I think it's actually the smoothest and most
comfortable self driving service I've ever used.
I compared it to Waymo, definitely agree.
It's a little bit less harsh.
And yeah, this is just kind of the first baby step, the first baby launch.
You know, they still have someone in the front seat watching everything in the front passenger seat.
But this is an ordinary car from their factory,
right? They didn't have to add any special equipment. Every car they make can run this software and can give rides without a driver. So if you're excited about self-driving and the
potential, that's a huge deal. For the first time, self-driving cars are now in
mass production. So this is going to be an inflection point in terms of the scaling of
this technology. Right now, 99.999% of the driving in this country's manual, we're going to see that start to change, where over the
next few years, I think most of the driving will actually be done by computers rather
than humans.
So it's going to be a massive change.
You know, this is the first sort of baby step in that direction.
The bears are looking at it and saying, you know, while this is just so small, it doesn't matter.
But this isn't the end. This is just the start.
And I'm excited to see how they scale up from here.
A couple of quick questions for you.
One, do they tell you kind of in advance of getting into the vehicle, right, that you're not going to be able to like talk or ask any questions to the person who's sitting up front?
Because I noticed that's been a big thing.
Well, they kind of told us over the phone
before they got in the service,
look, you know, the person in the front seat is...
Did he get there for anyone else?
I think we lost him.
Let's see if we get him right back.
But a couple of these other guys have been in the there he is sorry i think i hit the mute button
yeah you know so they kind of told us over the phone look these people are here to watch they're
also kind of monitoring they're also kind of providing security for the ride you get in they
ask to see your app.
They want to make sure that all the rules are being followed.
There are a lot of restrictions right now.
You're only allowed to have two passengers in the car.
But they're also just there to monitor, watch the ride,
take notes about anything that's going on,
and report it back to Tesla.
They don't want us sort of distracting them too much. So you're kind of
acting like nobody's there, like it will be long-term. But with this initial launch with
riders, they did want to have somebody there acting as a safety monitor just to kind of see
how things go. But obviously that isn't the long-term plan.
What's your thoughts on that initial 10% pop on the stock the day afterwards?
I personally wasn't expecting to see it move that big.
Well, you start to do the math on what this business could look like.
And I think the stock starts to look pretty cheap at $350, to be honest.
So this is the start of essentially a re-rating of the business,
where analysts have to come up with a new model.
We saw a new revenue line item launch yesterday.
They've collected their first dollar of rideshare revenue
with nobody behind the wheel. Now, you know, they're probably collected, what, you know,
a few thousand dollars. At this point, it's not going to be material on day one, obviously.
But as that line item ramps up, it is going to be something we look at in addition to automotive revenue, in addition to energy revenue.
And the great thing is they've got this rideshare revenue, but I think it'll also kick off sales of the cars too.
Because this is the first time that you can actually go buy one of these cars, the same exact car that's operating driverlessly. And you can buy
it and start using it and have it drive you to work under your supervision. And soon, probably
fully autonomously. So that's really exciting. If you're shopping for a new car, I honestly
wouldn't get one that didn't have self-driving capabilities built in.
one that didn't have self-driving capabilities built in.
Yeah, it does just make a whole lot of sense.
Okay, I want to come, well, actually, Omar, one question I did have for you is having
now experienced it and been inside it and it sounded like it wasn't necessarily even
something that you felt like, hey, this wasn't even that big of a jump, like we're able to
get here. What's your thoughts now on scalability, you know, expanding the zone,
offering this in more places, rolling out additional trucks, opening it up to a larger
portion of the public? Like how fast could you see these things happening?
Yeah, I think they're going to scale very rapidly from here. We've already seen them testing outside of the geofence. I think they're going to expand the geofence. I think they're going to get rid of safety drivers. I think they're going to, or safety monitors. I think they're going to get rid of a lot of these restrictions.
They don't have to retrofit the car. They don't have to add additional sensors. They're making millions of these cars globally. And all they have to do is install the right software on them and they can become robotaxis. That's a much different situation with the unit economics of this business compared to any other robotaxi. Anyway, I got to go.
Anyway, I got to go.
Thanks, Omar. Appreciate you.
Thanks, Omar. Appreciate you. Yeah, Landon.
Yeah, Landon.
You were talking about the safety of Tesla vehicles earlier.
I want to speak to the comments Omar had about the Tesla Robotaxi safety.
Is it safe?
You might ask yourself, your dad might ask you later today when you see him,
is it safe to get into a Tesla Model Y RoboTaxi in Austin this month?
Well, if you're in that early access group or if you get a plus one, I would say yes, wholeheartedly,
it is safe to ride in a Tesla RoboTaxi. And what am I talking about here? I'm not talking about
the fender benders, of course. We're safe in Austin in the world's safest car. But what I'm talking about is the company's approach to safety.
Safety is critical job one in every aspect of Tesla's FSD and Robotaxi and CyberCab programs.
And so when you get into a Tesla Robotaxi in Austin this week with your friendly Tesla influencer. And we do have
rides available. If you're in Austin, we've got so many of our team down there, our friends that
have access here. If you see somebody on the panel here that you know, or in the listeners that you
know as an influencer, go ahead and just send them a DM. A lot of them have been overwhelmed with
these DMms and
other people say keep them coming we've got rides to give in austin so when you get into that car
and you see a safety monitor there is that a good thing or a bad thing man that is a good thing
let me ask you you know folks if you're gonna put out your own autonomous autonomous car fleet like
tesla is doing here how safely would you do it? Well, Tesla has
been working on this technology and working up to this week for over 10 years of day in, day out
hard work. They had Autopilot 1 in 2014 with Mobileye, and several years later, they moved to
working on their own stack, their own technology, their own hardware, and they've built safety in from the start.
So initially here, sure, we'll see our friend up there in the passenger seat, just kind of checking out, making sure everything's cool.
Day one, day two, week one for sure.
I'm glad to have these people there. I'm glad Tesla's rolling this out safely.
I'm glad to have these people there.
I'm glad Tesla's rolling this out safely.
And when you go back and watch these videos from John Silicon Valley and from Omar and from Sawyer and from Chris Dirty Tesla and on and on and on,
what you see is these vehicles are performing as intended and they're doing it safely.
It's kind of funny. We're not here to beat up on Waymo. We got to
have Waymo succeed in order to get more of these ice cars off the road, more of the distracted
drivers off the road, more of the drunk drivers off the road in the middle of the nights.
We need Waymo. But we saw, you know, interestingly, some of the quirky Waymo behavior on tap. Some of
the drop-offs were in dangerous areas.
Maybe there was a little fender bender because Waymo did a funny little thing.
And will Teslas do that?
Maybe.
But we're not seeing it yet.
And we know we've got this 10 years of working on this software that's keeping us safe.
And I applaud Tesla for that safety.
Great points. Ryan, would you like to jump in?
Yeah. Hey, hey, guys. One of the crazy things is people are paying for these cars, whereas, you know, like Tesla really could just give them away because the economics become so favorable as people are paying for the vehicles, paying for the software, and then also paying for the rides.
so much scale, then the really what it feels like to me is the artificial driver that is
FSD improves from the equivalent of a driver who's maybe age 16 to now the driver behaves
like or FSD behaves like it's a 21 year old driver, maybe.
behaves like it's a 21 year old driver maybe and very quickly because you have such a big fleet
and so much data you can get that experience to go from a 21 year old driver to like a 50 year
old driver almost overnight and then as time goes on it continues to add experience without any degradation like you don't you don't decline
as you get to like age 80 let's say it instead it just continually gets better doesn't get tired
isn't drunk it it's really an incredible perfect uh like architecture it's similar to how google
perfect architecture. It's similar to how Google originally architected their search,
where every incremental search improves the overall search experience for everybody else.
And this is the same with the Tesla driving. Every incremental mile improves the self-driving
for everybody else's mileage. So I think really for, you know, a lot of us
recognize that this is the case, but for those who have not driven or ridden in a Tesla before,
and they're new to this whole full self-driving experience, it's just, it's paradigm shifting.
And you really have to think about it in that way before you ever get to the point where you're
thinking about, oh, the stock has this much room to run because these financials are going to be so good.
Another anecdote was, I think yesterday or two days ago, there's somebody that goes by the name
of Dr. Know-it-all. He gave a ride to a stranger in the robotaxi and the stranger's reaction was like super impressed.
And he even said that he was going to buy a Tesla for his wife after after the first ride.
So like I forget who said it. I think it was Landon was saying, like, basically, these robo taxi rides will help with sales as well.
It's basically a fantastic user experience.
And people recognize that it's safe.
They recognize that it's super comfortable.
And it takes off the mental energy that that is
there when you're driving and then because of that they're willing to pay even more for their
own vehicle but really it's like it's so crazy to me they they really don't have to to sell the
vehicles to these consumers like they could sell them at a loss because when you factor on the software layer of FSD
Plus the extra revenue they're gonna get from the robo taxi sale
for each drive
They're gonna make like maybe even more than a hundred percent
maybe even more than 100% gross profit
gross profit or profit on
or profit on the cost of the car.
So really it's like you could sell the car for $50,000,
$60,000, and then over the life of the vehicle,
the profit that you're gonna generate from it
could exceed that amount.
And so if you're comparing it
to a traditional auto manufacturer,
like the numbers just become so night and day different.
Like Ford's kind of lucky if they get a 10% profit because they're so dependent on, I mean, Landon, maybe you could speak to this more, but it's like they're so dependent on service.
They're dependent on just selling ICE vehicles.
Like if they sell electric vehicles, I think they still sell them at a loss.
So there's just a ton of advantages that will continue to grow over time as this scales.
And I'm looking forward to seeing all those.
You talked about a couple of big, big, big changes in Legacy Auto, and I'm here for it.
They used to say after NASCAR races, and you'd watch Ford
and GM run around on the NASCAR tracks, they'd say, win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Well, the new
paradigm is robo-taxi on Sunday, sell on Monday, or butts in seat on any day of week and sell the next day is what Tesla means. So it is exciting
to see the car business change. And instead of watching the races and deciding what car we're
going to buy, because it kind of looks a little bit like the cars on TV. Now you can go in and
you can buy the car from your family on Monday, which is the, we've got the things that really matter,
the things that make this, this is the best-selling vehicle in the world, by the way. Have we,
we remembered that? So this is a very, very, very good car for families and the safety and the
autonomous technology that's here that we've been watching for so long those are the reasons to buy a tesla on monday not because you've watched them win a nascar race
thanks very much i loved listening to your talk on that ryan
yeah really great points made loving the conversation here i did see that
a couple others jump back up on stage k10 kristin how's it going it is going really good though i've
been sick so i and there is that that piece but um i am here and it is really fun to see everybody's
videos of ropa taxi i think so many of us you, I helped beta test the early years of FSD,
and it's great to see us finally here, you know. Elon has been planning this for years. If you look
at his tweets, I went back and looked at it, just him talking about robotaxi. This has been part of
the master plan and just launching it. So he's just executing that list of master plan things
he's doing, and this is a huge phase. And I think as we go forward, we're going
to see that in the future, there's going to be more robotaxis and self-driving cars, and there's
going to be humans driving cars. So what a wild time in history to watch this all actually go down.
And it's great. And it's fun to see the different people. I don't know, is anyone here
taking a ride in the robotaxi yet? I don know if lincoln is down there or landed or ryan if you guys have had a chance just on 1010 so i've just been
remained vicariously yeah i know this makes sense right so we saw the cyber cabs at 1010 and
everybody wanted the novelness of riding in the cyber cabs because they're absolutely cool and
comfortable and really neat no steering wheel but then we were kind of like what kind of like, what's up with the Model Ys over there?
And now we see where the Model Ys fit because those are the first execution of the RoboTaxi network down in Austin, Texas with the geofencing.
And I think we're going to see a lot more cities pick this up and go forward.
This is just the first phase.
And it'll be fun to see it without the Tesla fsd teams sitting in the front seat you know
they're just there for this initial part probably to keep the people in line not the car you know
because all of us are a little like over the moon about this and so we want to test every little
aspect of the car so you know it we probably people would probably do a lot more if there
wasn't that extra safety person keeping an eye on the actual people in the car so great great points great points uh before
i come over to josh just want to hit kim and then we'll come over to josh kim would love to hear
your thoughts here good morning i love seeing all the videos on the robo taxi it's awesome i wish
that we had it up here in seattle So I've been watching, I think Omar had
videos and a bunch of people. And so really good to see that it's up and running now. And that,
you know, it tossed, not, I was going to say Costco. Look at, I have Costco on my brain.
That Tesla had such a great run yesterday.
Everyone knows Costco is my favorite stock, but that Tesla had such a great run yesterday
on that news.
So does anyone know when are they going to make it fully public?
Not just to the people who...
We don't know, but that's a great idea.
but that's a great idea. We've seen them already. So this is day three. And on day two, we saw
We've seen them already.
So this is day three.
additional early access, you know, invites go out and some of our other friends join in on the fun.
I think we'll continue to see them roll out that to more people. Your question was very good one.
It's specifically public. When can we do that? So just as a reminder, this isn't a stunt or a publicity event. This is an ongoing robo-taxi service. It's open from 6 a.m. to midnight to early access folks right now in Austin.
love to celebrate that with you. When we get that first random person that's able to download
RoboTaxi app and request a ride, I think it's sooner rather than later. You don't have to have
any special skills to ride in the back of a Tesla RoboTaxi. So they want to get these ready for the
public just as fast as we want them in the public. And I think we're talking easily months, not certainly multiple
longer than that. Well, and consider this, I mean, when Waymo came out, it wasn't available to the
public either for quite a while. So this is kind of standard, right? I don't remember the amount
of time that Waymo was only available to select people, but now it's rolled out to anyone that wants to write it.
So that's perfectly on point to just make sure that everything's going smoothly and it's working right before you open it up to everyone.
I think it's smart. It's what I would do.
I mean, listen, these are not
$150,000 Waymos. They're only $37,000 Teslas. But if you ask me to take my $37,000 Tesla and let a
rando just pick it up and ride it around town, I would want to make sure that it was safe as well.
That you got at the public, I hope coming very, very soon,
more cars, bigger areas. There's no stopping us now. Zero to one is the really popular phrase
right now. It is so much harder to go from zero to one than it is to go from one to two. And Tesla's
done the zero to one heavy lifting. Is it just me who thinks that we're going to have like an inflection point in like five
to 10 years, we're going to look back and we'll be like, remember when we used to get
into cars with just total strangers and they'd be sitting up front and our lives were just
in their hands and, you know, we had no clue if they were drunk or having a bad day or
like, you know, had a gun.
Like, I don't know.
Do you guys just think about that sometimes?
It was like the hitchhiking days for anyone who's my age.
Putting your thumb out there and getting in with a random stranger.
Yeah, Ted Bundy ended those, I believe.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
Just something I think about where I'm like,
I just feel like we're going to look back. It's just like those little innovations in history,
like small things. Um, I don't know. I, this is like a totally separate topic, but just like
how we watch and see things. We're like, Hmm, I never even would have thought of that or this
goes. All right. So I, I moved into a new apartment recently i put a picture of it this
morning on my page if you all want to see my new office uh set up by the way pretty nice views
and uh one thing that you know we got from my place we were looking we needed a new you know
washer dryer and i found that ge now sells a all-in-one washer dryer meaning it's not two
different units it's not like one up top one below or anything like that it is literally one basin and i put my shit in and it washes it and then
it just starts the next cycle and it dries it and then it's done i'm looking i'm like why have i
been moving my stuff from the washer to the dryer for like 25 years you know like why why has this
been happening and it was just a simple thing i was like this is just like duh and it just feels
like this is like another move here
where it's just like,
why was there a need for like a person
to be doing all this?
Like, as soon as you got to the ability
to not have a person needing to do this,
like just duh, do it.
And so I don't know, that's where I kind of lean.
And obviously there's a big difference
between those two things.
But funny enough to me in my head,
it's kind of like, it's just technology
that just makes sense
um there was one other thing uh what's it called that i'm trying to remember where i was like a
similar moment but i'm blanking for a moment but josh jump in you got some thoughts here
yeah hey how's it going um yeah i wanted to talk some people have almost kind of touched on what I was going to say, but regarding an inflection point, specifically from a Tesla production and stock perspective,
it's not going to happen this quarter, might not happen next quarter, but as RoboTaxi moves
from just Austin to Dallas to Houston to California, the numbers, the delivery numbers are not going
to matter anymore. I think we're going to see Tesla is going to be production constrained again,
where, you know, Tesla is going to sell model to model wise. And I can't see them cutting the
prices below a 20% margin anymore
because whatever they can't sell is just going to be added to the robo fleet.
And we're going to start seeing 50,000 a quarter,
maybe 100,000 a quarter over the next six quarters.
We're going to start seeing any quote unquote excess capacity
is just going to be pushed out to the robo taxi fleet so
that's one of the things i'm looking forward to that's it thanks guys
thanks josh appreciate chopping up um by the way if people want insights from omar and sawyer who
have both spent a lot of time inside of roboTaxis. I am going to record an episode of the Gigacast tomorrow with them.
I had the account come up on stage up here.
It's the white account with the black letter G inside of it that's on stage.
And if you want to check that out, that's where we're going to post the videos tomorrow.
We post them to YouTube as well with just like all of our insights and details and thoughts
and pieces along those lines that we'll be going into. So just want to put that out there.
Emp, I know that you've been on here hanging out. Do you got some thoughts or some questions
you want to throw into the mix here? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was watching
Sunday afternoon, getting some work done, and I was just going live stream to live stream.
And I was just amazed. There was, I just, I don't know if it can be understated at this point but just watching a car that we we
know it could drive itself but just finally seeing it driving itself with nobody sitting in the
driver's seat was just just to me that seemed like that revolutionary like moment like it was a real
thing it reminds me of when I first held anhone and was like playing with the touch screen on it it's really what it reminds me of
is is that kind of like this is a new thing and it's finally real um the the stories have been
really cool i think the biggest thing that i've noticed is a lot of these people like john that
was up on stage omar sawyer others that we've heard from, they're saying it after the first few
rides, as much as they were looking forward to this, it just felt normal. Like it just started
feeling like it was a normal, like, like regular occasion. Like it's like, okay, it's just like
what my Tesla already does, except I'm just not sitting in the driver's seat. And I think that that's really cool.
And the next step we'll see, obviously, is as people that maybe are not Tesla,
you know, like big Tesla, either owners or have not been in a Tesla before,
have not experienced FSD yet. Once we have their reactions, I think it's going to be
another huge moment where it's like an aha moment for a lot of people that maybe aren't in the world just yet.
But I thought it was really interesting that not only is this a milestone event, but at the same time, the people that are experiencing it are saying after a few rides, it just felt regular. Like I almost was like, okay, well, it's another ride. It's
taken me from point A to point B, just like when I get in my car and my driveway and go to the
office or go to the grocery store or wherever I'm going, it's normal. And the fact that that's going
to be a real thing very soon for a lot of people across Austin, across Texas, across the country,
I think is just, to me, it's still mind blowing that we're there at that point.
Yeah. I'm going to hop in here. I agree.
And Wolf, what you were saying earlier about this thing,
kind of like this fundamental shift like this, whoa,
this is going to make a big difference in things we're
going to look back and be like yeah used to get in the car with strangers because now we're just
going to get out and we're going to have a car get us and just bring us wherever we need we don't
have to worry about it don't have to deal with anybody or any sketchy people it's it's totally
true i think the people who understand what a fundamental shift this will be in our society as a whole are the ones who are just really excited.
And we get passionate about it.
And we see what it's going to do and where it's going.
And, yeah, it's exciting.
And, you know, we have to be patient sometimes.
We all want it to happen faster.
Like, I want them here in Salt Lake City right now.
But they're not here yet. But when they do here in Salt Lake city right now. Um, but, uh, uh, they're not
here yet, but when they do, man, I'm, I'm on board. Um, another thing is, um, my, my wife who, um,
wasn't too familiar with Tesla. She just used, used, uh, our model Y to drive her to, um, the
Midwest from Utah. And you know what? I wasn't worried about her,
like with the driving. She was driving at night and I wasn't worried. Normally I would have been
like, oh man, I hope she's okay. I hope she didn't fall asleep or get tired. And I know FSD is solid.
It is not perfect, but it is solid and it is going to get them there safely. And she said when she drove there, she's never experienced anything like that.
She's never been on a drive where she was so relaxed.
She didn't have to worry.
She was kind of tired at one point.
And, you know, we all know this.
When you're driving really tired, you're like, oh, man, are my eyes going to close?
And you really need to pull over.
She knew if she did, the car would beep and wake her up or pull over.
It's just this sense of, there's this safety with it. And people are getting to know this. So she
shares that with her family who aren't Tesla people. And they're like, wow, really? And so
this is getting out there more and more. And the RoboTaxi launch will get the word out even more so.
It just keeps on coming. Stacking up, stacking up. Yeah, I love to see it.
Landon, what do you think is going to be the next big thing that will now be on people's radar?
I know that this was like June is coming. What do people have to look forward to now?
Well, as far as RoboTaxi, you know, I've got a kind of a big three of things that I hope happen next.
And I can't tell you what order they're going to be in, but I'm looking for a geofence expansion when it's safe to do so.
I'd love to see Tesla open up the rest of, you know, greater Austin area.
I think it's doable. You know, maybe one of the final bosses
or one of the level bosses is going to be the airport, right? But we've heard from our Uber
drivers that airports have changed in the last 20 years. And they've got these cell phone lots,
and they've got rideshare lots that are going to make some of the logistics here for Robotaxi
much easier.
So we talked about airports.
We talked about new areas.
We'd like to see highways.
And we know Tesla's really good at this.
I was flattered to be invited into the Tesla Early Access Program in 2018,
and they had me testing NAV on autopilot a long time ago.
So I was driving that on Colorado freeways,
and it is worlds different and better now than it was in 2018, I can tell you that.
But it gives me the confidence that Tesla can do highways. And again, the reason that they didn't
immediately do highways on day one, do you want your new driver's license, your child,
to jump out on the freeway as their first drive,
or should we maybe drive around town a little bit? So I know Teslas can handle the highways.
It's just the higher speeds that if something were to go wrong, we know there's more damage
caused at 70 miles an hour than there is at 30. And then the final thing I'd like to say is, boy, we love you chaperones, but get out
of our robo taxis. We're excited. Now, I think we're going to win this one because if we're
following in the footsteps and thanking Waymo for this robo taxi start that they've given the world,
let's get these guys out of our cars. How quickly did Waymo do it? When did the safety chaperone go away for Waymo? Well, I don't have the exact dates, but it was nine or 10 years.
Maybe not in that order, but let's get on highways.
Let's get in bigger areas.
Let's get the chaperone out of the cars.
And then we can start rolling out to more and more cities.
As far as the rest of the summer, yep, we're looking straight ahead at X takeover at the
end of July in SF.
And we're looking at the Pikes Peak, world's highest elevation light show on the top of
a mountain.
Diana of the Denver Tesla Cub rented a mountain.
You can just call and say, hey, you know, when you're a baller like Diana,
you can say, hey, we want to rent your mountain.
And we're going to bring a couple hundred Teslas up there and run a light show and a drone show.
And, you know, they drop the phone when they hear that kind of thing.
But she got it done and that's
in August. So that's the rest of our summer. And I love Robo taxi.
Boom. Penny, Penny, Penny. What's going on, man?
Well, it's obviously Robo taxi week. That's what's going on on what a amazing start to the robo taxi season i mean like it's so crazy
having followed tesla for as long as i have and been sort of watching the journey from the start
when robo taxi was just a twinkle in elon's eye and everyone was talking about how it was
impossible right this was back probably i think even before he was landing rockets
so it's just one impossible thing uh checked off the list after another as a tesla investor it's
like super cool uh to see this actually happening and uh yeah i mean i'm loving it i definitely it
feels like um i guess it feels like the future watching everyone get in the back of the Teslas
and, you know, four 20, a ride. That's kind of funny, right? It never gets old, uh, Elon using
the meme numbers. So I'm just, you know, I think I'm, I'm enjoying it. I wish that I was in Austin.
I'm jealous of all of the different people that got to get their, get the software installed on their
phone. I see people posting, uh, you know, the different app icons that they have, and now they
have like their Grok icon and their X icon, their Tesla icon and their Robo taxi icon. I'm definitely
jealous of that. Um, but yeah, yeah. What a time to be an investor. What a time to be alive.
Great time, uh, just to be a part of Tesla
fans in general. It really is. So Penny, what, uh, what questions did you have kind of coming
out of all the footage that we saw? Well, I don't know that I have questions. I think
the questions are when do they get rid of the safety driver?
Uh, when do they open up the geofence to be bigger? And I saw news today, like, uh, I think
Waymo's opening up in a new city and they're trying to take wind out of Tesla's sales. I
thought that's kind of funny, right? It's like, they just, just got started. So when do they
expand into new markets? These are my questions is how fast will Tesla scale this?
How long will people be able to make claims that they're still playing catch up with Waymo
until, you know, they enable it in a hundred cities all at once.
And it's just completely lopsided in terms of the number of rides that are happening
in Waymo
robo taxis versus Tesla robo taxis.
I know, obviously they have a lot of reason to sort of be careful and do it slowly, but
I have a feeling it's going to be one of those slow, slow, slow until it's so fast that it's
done and you don't even know what happened.
And there's coverage all across America.
And at this rate, I think I'd be shocked if we didn't see that, you know, sometime in 2026.
So those are the big questions for me is how does this rollout play out over time?
You know, what areas will remain restricted versus just opening it up?
I think that's a, that's the real question.
It's always been the difference between, you know,
Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach has always been scalability. And there's a couple aspects to
that. One of them is that there's already so many cars on the road, they can create the cars for
much cheaper. And the other aspect is that they don't need to do, you know, all the pre-mapping
of all the different locations, the LIDAR mapping and things like that. So it should be, you know, all the pre-mapping of all the different locations, the LIDAR mapping and,
and things like that.
So it should be, you know, once they get most of the edge cases handled, they just start
flipping on more and more different cities.
And yeah, I'm definitely super excited to see how that goes.
I hope that they've got a bigger geo fence than Waymo.
I'm going to say within the next 60 days. That's the number I'm
going with. We've previously been talking about how Waymo should get flack for having too many
sensors, and Tesla's been doing really good about removing any parts that they can. But we should
give Waymo credit for what Penny was talking about, which is
they've been going through the regulatory process and improve and increasing their areas
that they can have this, these robo taxis.
Like first it was Austin or first it was Phoenix and then LA and San Francisco, Austin.
And today they announced Atlanta.
They're also going to be expanding to Miami and Washington, D.C.
And I think Tesla's advantage is to be able to tail them
and be able to get into these geographies.
But then also the NHTSA has talked about doing this on a federal level.
So if they're able to open it up to just all of the United States at one time, that would be a huge game changer.
So all of this is coming quite quickly.
And then also a quick note, if you go to tesla.com slash robotaxi, you can get updates for when it expands into your city.
Obviously, I think these spaces will continue to run and we'll always be talking about it, but that's another way to get updated.
Yeah, that's a good piece there as well.
Lincoln, are you on stage?
Did you have any other comments here on some of what's been shared?
No, I'm excited, though.
I don't think I have too much.
I'm excited. I'm excited for the rollout
I I was talking with somebody who did see um them testing without a driver on highways outside the
geofence and I posted about it and people really took to that because I think there's a lot of
excitement out there about the growth how is this going to grow and scale? And I think it's going to, I think it's going to happen faster than a lot of people think. So, um, yeah, I'm,
I'm definitely excited. Thanks for inviting me up to.
Yeah, of course. It's a pleasure. I appreciate you coming to the show and
I've definitely been in, uh, some of the spaces, both speaking and listening that I've seen
yourself and Landon and others doing.
And I love the content that you guys are putting out.
I love the back and forth that I always see on the timeline with this stuff as well.
Listen, if there weren't bears, there wouldn't be a market, right?
There wouldn't be any opportunity.
Good point. That's a good point.
We do have, Gav, we've got one more event coming up this week.
Is it this week or next week?
The 28th is elon musk's birthday
uh i think if you do the math june 28th is about 69 days after 420 which is april 20th
so that's always fun to say but what's a retail buyer on the 28th and delivering it to their home in Austin with robo-taxi driverless service.
How would you like that? going to tesla.com and you're buying a Tesla Model Y, the best-selling vehicle in the world,
the safest vehicle in the world, and having it delivered to your house without a driver,
without going to a legacy dealership, without dealing with a cheesy car salesman, and to see
it show up in your driveway without a driver, that starts June 28th, is what Elon has said.
I would love to see an Austin resident.
I don't care who it is, where it is,
but see somebody taking a Model Y delivery at their house without a driver,
without a transport, without a diesel semi, without all of the in-between.
Let's go.
June 28th, that happens.
June 28th, that happens.
That is cool to just continue to see all the different items that are in this area that are going to continue to keep happening, right?
And just pieces on pieces.
And it's just stacking bricks, right?
That's ultimately what this is.
It's one brick after another.
You build it.
Ultimately, I think what he only cares about is results, but he understands the process for getting there, and it does not happen.
Rome was not built in a day, as they like to say, and neither was self-driving cars.
Good point. Elon says, if you don't build things, there is no things.
If you don't build stuff, there's no stuff, and Elon continues to build. That's a great observation.
Yeah, that's how I continue to lean into it and think
about it as well. Just a lot of great pieces here as we continue to talk. Now, I did get a couple
others, and I know that there's some others coming up for different pieces here, but Sam Solid,
you've been hanging out in the crowd. You did jump up on stage just now. You've been listening
to the Tesla conversation. You're, I would say, less on just like the pure Tesla bull and more
just like analyst side. bull and more just like
analyst side. I'm curious to hear your thoughts when you look at this from that analytical
perspective. Well, I mean, I've always been a big proponent that when you're buying Tesla stock,
you're not necessarily buying it for the near term event of RoboTaxi or even the soft launch
that they did just this weekend. But you're buying it kind of for the inevitable future
that they're going to figure all this out. And it's going to be rolling out and scaled out around
the entire world. And it's not even just the RoboTax with much higher margins than just selling
cars in general. It's also with Optimus, Robotics in general. And I mean, really, this is the only proxy a public or a retail investor can get on
SpaceX without actually being in the private rounds. You know, even though people say like,
even though like technically speaking, you're not necessarily buying a piece of SpaceX, but at the
same time, you are owning it by proxy and any positive news you see from that front is going
to be reflected likely in the stock in the future. But you're basically betting on the future at this point.
Obviously, you know, when you look at the margins, when you look at the growth in terms of Tesla, you know, you can make every single case that the stock is way overvalued.
But that's not the reason why you're buying it or holding up to the long term.
You're buying it because you're betting on the inevitable future that all this will be figured out.
And Tesla is going to be the innovator in the front end doing most of the work
and most likely everyone will follow. I mean, let's be honest.
Like Elon has basically changed the world since he started on this journey more
than a few decades ago.
And even companies that he had started are still around today and doing a lot
more. And while he's not with them, they still,
he still built the foundation of it. And I feel like when
you're buying Tesla, that is what you're buying. You're basically buying that vision that it'll
all eventually be figured out. And I think that when people buy Tesla and they're bashing on how
RoboTaxi and all these little things that happen where it's like, oh, the driver was holding on
this button. Oh, they shut up with a safety driver there. It's like, okay, yeah, but what do you
think is going to happen like three years from now? You think they're still going to have
the driver there? I highly doubt it. And even if they did, for some weird reason, they would figure
that out as well. You're not buying Tesla because of some robo-taxi event and all these little
stipulations. You're buying it because of the future, and the future is going to happen whether
people like it or not. I feel like there's so much criticism in the short term, but at the end of the
day, look at the progress that's but at the end of the day, look
at the progress that's happened in the last few years.
Just look how many different models have rolled out.
Look how many different editions are rolled out and all the progress with FSD as well.
Unsupervised FSD is going to come out at some point.
And when it does, it's going to be the first of its kind at scale, especially using vision
and not using LiDAR. So that's something I definitely look forward to. And it's not honestly something that
I'm looking forward to in the next week. It's something that I'm looking forward to the next
five or 10 years, which is going to be great as it starts to roll out. And of course, there'll be
more bear cases that are going to come out because there's always criticism out there.
But at the same time, yeah, people are going to criticize the stock when it's a thousand bucks or
1500 bucks, who knows when it's going to be that?
And I'm not saying it's going to happen in the next couple of months, but there will
always be criticism out there regardless of what happens, whether it's Tesla, Waymo,
or any other self-driving asset.
Well, wrapped up thought there.
Great stuff.
Really fun test of space here today.
I knew it was going to be a good one as we talked through all these different pieces.
Obviously, the stock reacted very favorably as well.
10% up right the day afterwards, which we love to see.
And so excited to see where it continues to go.
Trading at 343.60 right here, down 12% year to date.
So reminder, you still had a chance to buy Tesla while it was red on the year.
In case you look back in a month or two and it is no longer
red. Not financial advice. Do your own research, please. I'm just a big Tesla bull out here.
All right. That's what I got for the Tesla side. Thank you, Penny, Kristen, Landon,
Lincoln, Ryan, so many others have been up here. We had Kim. Omar was up here from a robo taxi.
Just a super, super fun panel as always.
We got a chat here coming up. We're going to roll back into the trading talk.
Emp, I'll turn it over to you. Yeah, big shout out to the Tesla crew. What a time to be alive.
I guess I'll just leave it at that with Tesla. Big shout out to everyone that joined us today.
Appreciate it. We do this every Tuesday at noon right here on Wolf Financial.
And right now we're going to roll this conversation over.
We're going to talk about some trading, some trading on chain.
Talk about technology that's ahead of its time.
We're coming from Tesla.
Talk about some technology here.
Trading with blockchain, being able to trade multiple assets all in one spot.
All the smart contracts, all that stuff.
Definitely excited for this
conversation and some of the pieces that we're doing around it. Flo, do we have you up on stage?
Yeah, you do. How's it going, everybody? Awesome. Excited to be here. Actually,
you know, was listening to a lot of the Tesla conversation, you know, always fun to
hear, you know, people's takes and opinions on, you know, like they said conversation you know always fun to hear you know people's takes and opinions
on you know like they said you know betting on the future and then like where that's gonna
you know what that's gonna look like in the next you know 5 10 20 years um you know just
to be honest with you this robo taxi kind of news i i'm fairly certain was the biggest day for
stock trading particularly tesla trading on ostium. So we actually saw this excitement, this hype reflected also on chain through our Perps platform.
So yeah, our best volume on both stocks in the Broadly and Tesla in particular over the last few days.
Yeah, well, let's dive into it a little bit, Flo,
just kind of connecting the pieces here.
Tesla obviously being a name that can be traded on Ostium,
but we'd love to have a little introduction piece here.
Maybe some of the audience not familiar with Ostium yet.
Definitely, I'll get something pinned up here in just a second.
But Flo, if you could give us just a quick rundown of what Ostium is,
kind of the idea behind it, uh introduce yourself a little bit too and uh tell us uh what all we can
trade here on ostium yeah i guess i'll just start very very briefly so again uh i go by flow uh been
around both like the well i guess you know formerly fin twit uh space and now like the, well, I guess, you know, formerly FinTwit space, and now like the crypto Twitter spaces for quite a few years now,
started out as primarily, you know, trading TradFi,
so indices, also vol, you know, primarily options and futures.
Over time, transitioned more and more so to the crypto side
and was lucky enough to find Ostia myself and uh kind of join this
team and it which kind of melded both worlds right the ability to both interact and trade in the
trad fi markets you know stocks bonds um things like that but also you know crypto assets as well
so it's it's a been a interesting journey that led me directly to where I am right now.
And as far as Austium itself, the reason that I'm so excited about it and the reason that I wanted to be a part of it is because essentially what we're looking to do broadly is build crypto.
So the on-chain macro trading app.
What we mean by that is a place that you can trade everything from crypto, so BTC, ETH, SOL, things like that, into commodities, so gold, silver.
Plan on listing things like palladium. We have copper, platinum, just all different types of industrial metals, things like that. FX, so you want to trade the euro to USD pair. You want to
trade the Mexican peso to USD pair, a bunch of different
forex pairs as well. So we're trying to be a place where you can kind of like centralize your
activities, particularly if you have money on chain and kind of just do everything in one place
without having to move money around and kind of deal with all of that. I'm sure a lot of people
here are used to dealing with like their prime broker and things like that. You know, money can take quite a bit of time to move around, whether it's from withdrawal or whether it's a deposit or whether it's a withdrawal.
So, you know, we're also catering to those people who want the crypto benefit of being able to kind of like offboard and onboard your funds, you know, really fast, you know, potentially within a couple of minutes or even or even a few seconds.
So that's that's kind of our broad goal is to
you know be that one-stop shop um and i think that we're you know that's basically the direction that
we've been moving in and as we add more assets uh that becomes you know more and more more and more
true right so uh the things we're adding next is like i said bonds i actually mentioned earlier
but you know we have stocks indices indices, commodities, crypto. So
their next category that we'd likely be adding is bonds. So any bond traders out there,
you can soon trade those in rates on Ostium as well.
So I'm going to ask you one follow-up question here, and we'll kind of start diving into it a
little bit more and go around the panel some. Timeframes. For example, crude is making crazy moves right now.
Gold, some of these other things really moving.
We're seeing a lot of after hours moves as well.
Even Bitcoin, what a move down this weekend
and then right back up.
I mean, we went down $5,000, $6,000 quickly,
right back up.
I just saw an eclipse like that 106 mark just a few moments ago.
What trading hours do you guys offer for a lot of these different
between crypto commodities, the indices themselves?
So crypto, of course, 24-7, crypto never sleeps. You can literally trade that anytime,
anyplace, anywhere. That's one of the reasons why it's attracted so much flows and attention these days. As far as anything from
commodities to FX to indices to bonds, those are going to actually be run on the CME Globex hours.
Same type of hours that you'd see in the traditional futures market, you know, on things like the e-minis, you know, MES, MNQ, like it's
going to have essentially the same hours that you're used to trading on your normal trading app,
or again, your prime broker. One thing is in particular on stocks, I will say, we're still
working on extended and after hours trading. It's a little bit tricky to get all that figured out,
especially on chain when you already have
a very, very low liquidity, very, very high spreads
and just in the traditional market.
So there's trying to find,
the whole industry at this time is trying to find ways
where we can kind of like mitigate that
and allow extended hours trading.
So that's something that we're working towards as well
is to be, you can trade you can trade, I'm not like basically almost, almost 24 seven.
And I think that's coming to the market very soon within the next,
within the next couple of years, probably.
But it is,
it is a work in progress for the industry as a whole to be able to support
that.
Yeah. I mean,
obviously I asked that because I know a lot of, you know, just tradify traders from that side of the world.
They have, you know, trading their options, their equities, and they see Trump just loves to wait until after hours to drop these big announcements.
It's been a common theme the last week or two.
And I know a lot of traders are, you know, they're sitting around, they're nervous, they're waking up early because they're like, oh, I've got physicians or whatever, you know, news is
changing rapidly. And that's where, you know, some of these other items that do trade 24-7 are
super enticing too. I know a lot of the traders, I know I see some traders up here on stage with us.
So I'm excited for that. I saw Cade joined us up here. Cade, I want to welcome you to the
conversation, see what thoughts you have around Auss Awesome that you want to share with the crew or any questions, of course, that you want to throw at Flo and the team.
Yeah, man. What's going on, everybody? It's good to see all of you here. I've spoken from the Wolf Crypto accounts, but it's from the computer. But what's up, Flo? It's good to see you, man. I missed you in the earlier market talk.
It caught you for a second,
and then I couldn't tell if you were rugged,
but good to see you.
And, you know, actually,
Emp and Flo both bring up interesting points there
with the prediction markets kind of conversation
as well as the after hours.
And I think I'd asked Emp about this a little while ago,
but talking about, you know,
do you like the idea of the 24-7 markets? And I forget, I can't remember exactly the full detailed answer, but I think I remember
one of the things you said, which was, it's probably going to happen regardless if I like
it or not. And, you know, you say now that, you know, Trump has all these things he likes to drop
in the after hours. We're almost getting to a point where people are like, out of necessity,
we must trade at 24 seven. And that's why I like Austin because it's cool.
Cause it's like,
this is the things that they're thinking about.
And so when you're like,
Hey,
like what are the things in the future that you think are going to be
happening where you'll have to pivot and then maybe make an adjustment on
depending on what the market wants.
I know that you guys can be on top of that.
Cause that's the first thing you guys are looking to do.
Right.
And it's actually,
it's actually even more specific.
If you were to look at it,
what he tends to do is he tends to make announcements and talk during the cme globex um rest hour
essentially so for between the hours of five and six uh p.m every day the markets are actually
closed for maintenance so futures markets or cnc at cfd markets um you know they essentially are
just they close for one hour.
Right. So there's been there, you know, recently what Trump has done is that during that one hour resting period where the markets are closed, you know, across the board for a lot of people is he'll make a big announcement.
And, you know, I think that when we're at kind of like the peak bear so like the absolute lows of like after liberation
day um that's essentially what happened is we is the markets were at absolute lows and then he and
then he went and during the maintenance hour announced that a deal you know with china had
been made and the market just you know when it opened back up at 6 p.m eastern time it just
ripped like everybody who was short like had zero to exit in profits. It just opened up way above
their liquidation, their stop loss, just way above their shorts. All shorts got wiped.
Essentially, planned, not planned. I won't speculate too much on that, but the end result
of him talking and making big announcements during when the market is closed for that one hour period has been just like anybody who's on the wrong side of the trade just completely wiped.
So yeah, I can totally understand why people would be interested in trading and having liquidity 24
seven because you obviously don't want to be subject to, you know, you have a stop loss,
right? That's way that's kind of like, you said it there. But if the market opens up way above
that, you're, you know, you're your your order is just going to activate at the current
price so you you'll end up losing you know a lot of money yeah that that totally makes sense um
it's also interesting because it sort of almost mirrors the psychology of like at least it seems
like the timeline we're probably in our own bubble here.
But in the last few years, it must be just the rise of social media,
the immediacy that we're able to get some of these announcements.
And then five minutes later, there's an update of another breaking news announcement
that's like kind of the same, but it's slightly similar or slightly different.
And it's getting to this point where it's turning to this like lotto it feels like a little bit i'm not sure like what the stock like the stock traders and
more the stratified side of things um how they're like i guess feeling emotionally towards the
market or like psychologically toward the market in terms of how they think about it from uh
like maybe maybe it's probably coming so many of the crypto spaces um and they're just it's just way more new
than the traditional finance conversations but I mean maybe amp or if I mean flow I know you're
trading all the markets like have you noticed that like are people starting to trend that way is that
does that make the most sense for us to be like a trading platform that's it is a trading platform
it's a place where you go and you trade you know any and all assets but also a place where you go
where you know there are all sorts of other trading platforms but you just go and you trade, you know, any and all assets, but also a place where you go where, you know, there are all sorts of other trading platforms, but you
just go there to trade.
Like, it's something that you guys are working towards or on more of like a gamified, like
a specifically gamified trading platform, because I know you've had some various features
and stuff that you guys have been trying out, and some of them are pretty fun, more in the
prediction market side of things, rather than maybe like full ta mode you know yeah so i'm not i mean in general um the entirety of crypto is somewhat
gamified um you know there's differing opinions on this across uh track you know kind of just
across the kind of more traditional trader communities.
What tends to happen is institutional traders,
institutional people, they kind of like it.
They can get extra rewards, extra money, extra yield.
A lot of the time, a lot of people
who are more so individual traders
who are just in their own bubble,
they have their own systems,
they don't want to deal with anything
other than just look at the charts and just trading. We have found people who, you know, they don't
want to participate in those types of gamified things. But, you know, the main way that crypto
kind of are just on-chain businesses incentivize people is through, you know, points programs,
rewards programs, you know, whether that's like cash rewards for referrals, where you get like
a portion of your like referred volume.
There's a kind of a lot of different ways where it's just inherently like gamified.
We're not trying to overdo that or add anything like too crazy to that.
You know, we do have, like you mentioned, kind of a more novel products, like a prediction market based trading or trading triggers where, you know, what we like to call them is event-based
limit orders, where essentially, you know, just to give you an example of something that made
people a lot of money on our platform was during the election, you know, there's a lot of people
in Europe, a lot of people across Asia who essentially just didn't want to stay up to see
the election results, but they wanted to make trades off of those results.
So you were able to kind of like set a trade where, you know, if on Polymarket, the odds of
Trump winning went over 85 or went over 95, which, you know, usually it tends to be a sure thing,
you could literally just activate a trade on Ostium, you know, so Trump win over 85%,
long Bitcoin on 50x leverage. So we had quite a few people who,
whether long or short, they were making bets based off of the presidential election winner,
and had trades activating to long or short the market based off of that. So that's something
kind of like newer that we did. I guess, you know, in a sense, it is a bit gamified, but,
and we're looking to roll out like a more advanced version of that product in the near future that brings in CPI data, you know, PPI, the FOMC, so the rate decisions, and essentially where you can use real world events to trigger, you know, trades.
So it's something that is, I wouldn't say only possible on crypto, but, you know, kind of like one of the things that crypto is really good at is making these novel types of products where people can interact with markets in a different way.
You know, most people are just looking at, right, time and price, the X and Y axis.
You know, I'm making decisions based on, you know, what time, you know, something's happening.
You know, I notice certain patterns or what price something is at, whether I'm buying at support or, you selling out resistance things like that but there's a whole other dimension that you can add where it's like actual binary or like just event-based data-based
trade activations so yeah that's something that we're looking to release a v2 of soon and that
you know we've seen a lot of demand for and that uh more of like people on the
traditional side who are maybe like more macro oriented um have found pretty useful
side who are maybe like more macro oriented um have found pretty useful
so can you guys i had a quick question if you don't mind me asking um so you're basically like
turning it from like a linear trading like an x y like to like an xyz almost where people can have
like a third layer of analysis that's not purely based on price action. I guess with like event-driven
hedge funds, right? Or an event-driven trading strategy, like it's almost less important about
the specific price of what you're doing and more important about what's happening around you.
Exactly. No, 100%. That's like basically how we're looking at it. It's not just based off
time price, but more specific based off
the result of something that happens at that time. So yeah, like, it's like, it's adding a new
axis, adding like a new dimension to, you know, how you can actually trigger or base trades around
things. You know, obviously that's something that people do manually all the time. Like,
you know, something happens, okay, I went along, something happens, I short, right? Like a big headline comes along, you know, just using the most recent examples, we see,
you know, Israel attacks Iran, Iran fires missiles at Israel, I want a short, right? So it's like,
like, that's that one short, or I want a long oil, or I want a short equities, or I want a short
crypto, or I want a long gold. Like everybody has these trade ideas.
And some people are able to, you know, you can use, if you are a developer, you know,
engineer, you can, you know, code some of these things yourself, use like our SDK.
But for a lot of people who are more discretionary manual button clickers, such as myself, this
can add like a, yeah, like a pretty, like, it's just a large new dimension on the things
that you can actually trade off of so and you guys are open source right i'm pretty sure awesome is open source
open source you can find like all our contracts you know directly on blockchain take a look at how
the trading engine is built you know how everything. That's kind of the normal way of operating crypto,
which obviously keeps us on our toes.
We always have to be building, always have to be innovating,
doing new things because ultimately at the end of the day,
someone can come in and like go towards open source code and be like,
and just what you would, you know, you say fork your code, right?
You would just create a carbon copy,
just exact copy of it and launch it on the launch it.
And you would have an exact copy of Ostium, right?
So there are certain things that are more proprietary that do run off chain, you know, just like any other kind of decks like at this point.
But for the most part, yeah, the core training engine, the core parts of the protocol are essentially all public, viewable, parsable by anybody.
That's awesome. I really respect that that's
super cool this is random cloud you guys doing on-prem what was that i didn't quite really go
oh i the servers hosted in the cloud or is it on-prem just curious because i'm an it oh i mean
it's it's on it's on chain so I mean it's on the blockchain that the
poll app is is you know launched on on chain so it's what we would call it so it's like you know
not like that it's a similar but you know essentially it's running through that kind
of network of verified uh devices you know in this case ethereum as proof of stake so I mean
to not get into too much of like defy like like the weeds of crypto, it's like essentially a decentralized network as opposed to being on like a centralized server like AWS or something.
Cool. That's a new concept I did not even know about.
Yeah, I mean, that was the original kind of ethos or the original selling point of Ethereum. It was, they called it the internet computer, right? It's a decentralized computer that you can run programs on is the,
is the kind of like a really like, you know, fundamental way to look at it.
That's a great question. I hadn't even thought to ask something like that. Did anybody else
up here on stage have any, any questions around Ostium, how it works, how it functions,
all that stuff tropic
what's up my man hey how's it going as usual great to be here with you guys but you just uh sparked
a thought there when you said okay with the sdk and such uh i was just wondering does anyone have
a trading bot that has been deployed because i'm sure yeah you know uh there's some savvy
brains that can build some cool
things out there that have their own extension
to, I guess you'd say, one of the
issues that a lot of newer traders
such as myself would have is getting
the emotion out of it, so I think that would be a
very cool deployment.
Yeah, I mean, I think
Tropic
we had talked to earlier
and he's Yeah, I mean, I think a little robot
opening up
opportunity to everyone else.
Like, you know, anyone wants to hop on a call, you have feedback about the platform, you
want to see certain things, you know, added to the Austin platform that will enhance your trading experience.
Totally open to jumping on a call, doing like a feedback onboarding type of thing with pretty much anyone in the audience.
So feel free to shoot me a DM.
Yeah, really cool. We're breaking up quite a little bit, but from what I understood and heard is that you guys are building, I think it also, it not just connects, okay, crypto people with traditional finance people, but developers as well.
Because a lot of these other centralized platforms and big banks and, you know, brokerages, it's not like just a curious builder who has the knowledge to build something can just all of a sudden build something that can help the community.
So I think you guys have a really cool thing here that have an opportunity to
kind of bridge it over to developers within the space. So really cool.
Yeah. I mean, can you guys hear me a little bit better now?
Having some headphone issues to be quite honest with you.
Yeah.
Much louder.
No, yes.
Awesome. cool.
Flo, I'm going to ask you.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Have we still got you?
Boy, from the get-go this morning, we had some issues on spaces.
We may have to get Flo right back up here.
You know what, Cade, I saw a post post i'm here if you guys can hear me okay
okay we do that we do have you okay perfect one thing that i was gonna ask flow is people are
getting uh getting signed up here i know maybe some of the non-crypto crowd they're going okay
well wait wallet wait how do i connect what it seems like you guys have simplified this pretty
much what's the process
if somebody down in the audience is curious? How do I get on here? How do I start trading
on Ostium where I've accessed all these great different products?
What's the signup process look like? How do I get my funds in?
Yeah. So, I mean, it's fairly simple. You're non-crypto native. You don't have to bother
with creating like your own personal self-custodial wallet.
Not necessary.
What you would do is just up in the top right-hand corner,
it'll say connect.
And in that case,
you would actually just connect with your Google account.
So anybody can go ahead and just, you know,
with your existing Gmail, existing email,
go ahead and sign up.
It'll go ahead and week we spin up a
wallet on the back end and from there very simple on the easiest the easy you
know you can onboard either be a credit card you know where there are partners
adding you know a CH support wire support you know if you want to put in
money through your bank and then also you know the easiest way if you already have a CEX count. So if you have
Coinbase, you have Crack and you have something else that you already interact with crypto,
that just maybe isn't, again, like a self-custodial wallet, you can, you know, the process is,
it takes about one minute to onboard your phone. So you just go ahead up in the top right-hand
corner again, you copy your wallet address that we spin up for you.
You go into your CEX account, paste that wallet address,
send the funds, and they arrive in your wallet essentially within,
again, like a second potentially.
So, yeah, I mean, again, opening up the floor,
if anybody essentially wants to see how that looks like,
and we do have some videos, tutorial videos that show people what onboarding to the ostium app actually looks like and again
like the video itself is about you know less than two minutes long and that's with me going
you know pretty slow to kind of like articulate myself on what's going on if you're doing things
yourself you can get your funds to your wallet or to to the ostium app in about less than a minute
to your wallet or to the Ostium app in about less than a minute. Withdrawal is instant. You can get
your funds right back if you need it within, again, like another, you know, probably about 30 seconds.
So that's kind of like one of the main benefits is just the speed of onboarding and off-boarding
your funds as opposed to, you know, something like a Prime Broker, your normal app or your
brokerage app where you're waiting, you know,
potentially two plus, T plus two, T plus three amount of days, you know, it takes two days to
settle for your funds to settle in your account. It takes another couple of days if you want to
draw for you to land back in your bank account, which is obviously very inconvenient.
That sounds so different than a lot of the traditional brokers out there and so much better.
It's like one of those things like, why do we not have this already?
I don't know.
It's very interesting to me.
When it comes to trading on here, leverage, that's one of the things that most caught my attention.
I mostly trade futures.
I think a lot of people that know me know that.
And futures are essentially leveraged but you're
stuck in the same leverage the entire time you guys have opened up this whole realm one of the
things about when I got into trading in general and started learning how to trade different things
and leverage is a huge thing that you can use to your advantage right can get you in trouble as
well obviously we're going to say that piece but it's also a huge advantage. And that
was one of the things that when when crypto really got into like the trading scene of crypto really
got going, that was what really caught my attention. I was like, wait, I can really leverage up here.
I have way more flexibility. And I don't have that if I'm trying to trade, you know, an Apple or a
Microsoft or Tesla or something like that. And it seems like you guys have finally bridged that gap.
What does the leverage stuff look like?
Just honestly,
it's maybe a half selfish question.
I know we have some other traders up here probably interested in that
question as well as the audience.
Yeah.
I mean,
it's,
it kind of varies across assets.
you know,
you could see something as,
as high as 200 X leverage across FX,
a hundred X leverage across commodities, a 200x leverage across FX, 100x leverage across commodities, 100x leverage
across crypto, 50x, for example, I think that specifically on oil, it is an extremely volatile
asset. That's for your benefit as much as ours. But yeah, it differs among assets. I believe the highest amount of leverage that we offer here currently is 200X, just on the, again, on Forex.
You know, if you're used to trading kind of like indices, so again, like ES, E-minis kind of futures, you know, the NQ futures,
like normally what the default is, is like essentially 50X leverage, like just like if you were to calculate the positional leverage.
50x leverage, like just like if you were to calculate the positional leverage. So on indices
on, you know, these on these index assets, so again, yes, NQ, things like that, we're actually
essentially offering you double leverage than you would have available to you, like
through a traditional futures, to a traditional futures broker. So double or more the amount of
leverage they usually allow you, which again,
can be dangerous, but that's what we live for. Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited about that. Tropic,
go for it. Yeah, well, just to hear a little bit more about someone who's not necessarily
familiar with what it is to have a decentralized
protocol running a brokerage like the i guess you said the benefits or the differences between
you know a platform that can close out orders and all the different things that that would make this
appealing to someone who may have uh you know a traditional brokerage account somewhere else and are considering, well,
why should I make that switch?
I had a little trouble in the beginning,
but if you didn't, dive into
that difference. I would love to hear
a little bit more about that.
Sorry, can you repeat the question?
I missed a little
part of it there, but you're setting
offering advantages to
someone who is already on a traditional brokerage uh, brokerage or. Correct. Because, uh, not everyone in the
audience might be familiar with why a decentralized protocol such as this would be, you know,
advantageous or have a more additional transparency and benefit than they're,
what they're currently using. Yeah. I mean, primarily for people who are already trading, you know, on traditional brokers,
it's particularly things like CFDs.
You know, like you said, I've mentioned it.
I think I may have kind of alluded to it before, or you might have alluded to it before.
But essentially, you know, if you are a high leverage, you know, kind of like high roller,
you know, trader, they're basically consistently monitoring your trades.
If you start making too much money, so you're too high in profit, they may deleverage you.
If they suspect that you're running some kind of arbitrage strategy that they don't like or doing,
it's just essentially engaging in activity that they don't approve of, they could go ahead and just close your account.
an activity that they don't approve of, they could go ahead and just close your account.
So there's all kinds of just inter-exchange ARB and just regulations that people have to deal with.
If you're not from the United States, if you're from Korea, you're from Japan, you're from Singapore,
you're from some of these Asian countries, there's leverage limits per asset. So if you're on a
traditional futures broker, they may only let you in their case trade of 20X on Forex, 50X on commodities and things like that. So it allows
people outside of the US a higher amount of leverage and that capability. So I mean,
the question really just depends on, to be honest with you, region. Regulations in the United States
are not regulations in the Middle East that are,
and they're not, and those are not regulations in Asia Pacific. So the benefits really kind of like,
kind of like run the spectrum of just different types of like arbitrage, you know, exchange
regulation or exchange like, yeah, just rules or regulations to just like, you know, just to be honest with you,
again, it's a decentralized manner.
There's probably some people that are
arbing just their own country's regulations, right?
So essentially what it is, is you aren't having to,
kind of like, you're bypassing some forms of regs
and rules of the exchanges that are built to take advantage of you as a trader.
Sam Solid, let me bring you in here a little bit.
I know you're testing these waters out
and we may drop a little hint here in a minute
of some stuff we're working on,
but have you looked at Austin much at all so far uh what are your thoughts what questions
might you have for uh for flow as you kind of dipping that toe in the water over here
yeah i mean i think it's a great application to use in terms of integrating it with
maybe some code or maybe building some customizations on the side with some scripts, integrating with the API and so on, kind of gives that door for people to lever up without having to
put up all the collateral in the meantime. And I used to trade futures in the past,
and it required a lot of capital just to have an account as collateral when you're putting on a
contract, unless you're trading, of course, MES or something, or a full-size NQ, like 10 of them options like
But I mean, I think it's a pretty cool opportunity.
He doesn't really do that.
But I think it's a pretty cool opportunity to use this platform and test it out.
After hearing all the integrations on the code backend for it, kind of makes me a little
bit interested.
That pretty much is my background, just working with code as a as a developer and engineer
and as a trader yourself sam i know uh you like to swing trade which is is is awesome i know you
do a lot of different things you do some day trading too. I know you have that little DJ's bone in you.
That's a good point though, really quickly, is that actually, if you're trading some of these,
for example, oil futures, some of these other types of futures, you essentially,
in a lot of these brokerages, you need an account that's over $25,000 or in some cases over $5,000.
Not everyone wants to have, like you said, not everyone wants to have that type of collateral
in the brokerage and just be like, essentially swinging around tens of thousands, $20,000
at any given time.
So on Ostium, you can deposit a hundred bucks, 50 bucks, whatever it is, and you can start
trading these assets essentially in a more fractionalized way as
opposed to having like you know if you're true again traditional futures you usually you're
trading by lots and like you know one lot um you know let's say on es uh represents like over 200
000 i think over 250 000 of of notional exposure um so you know if you don't want to have 200 if
you don't have a quarter million dollars plus of notional exposure, like that's like essentially the minimum, Austin is the perfect place for you to go.
You can open up a trade, you know, that's worth, you know, 1500 bucks, 2000 bucks, 250 bucks, or sorry, 2500 bucks, as opposed to again, like 100 times that.
I was going to ask that same question. I was kind of headed in that direction. I'm glad you jumped in on that flow. Like from the futures world, for example, I know not only do you have margin requirements during the day while you're day trading, but if you want to swing a position, you have to have a large amount, a lot, lot higher amount of margin just in your account that it locks up, you know, as you get into a trade, if you wanted to
swing a trade on whatever it is, what does the margin look like for Ostium? Just, I mean, maybe
not a, maybe a specific example would be a little bit easier here. If you are, if you are looking at
taking an SPX trade, if you were looking at taking even an oil or gold or something like that,
it's not going to take my entire account to be able to get into a trade. What sizing can I use?
I mean, obviously, when I look at these futures, like a futures broker, for example,
like Tradeevade or Ninja, one of those, they'll say, okay, you've got to have, you know, 5,000 or 10,000 in your account to be able to open this position.
And it basically locks that up.
And then your max loss is your max loss.
But it seems like I don't have those same margin requirements when I look at Austium.
If I take a position, it's basically, hey, I have this much money that I can lose.
And is that the end of it? Is that where we're at with margin?
Yeah. So it's, it's, instead of being based off a margin,
essentially you're choosing your collateral and then amount of leverage.
So essentially, you know, you have, like I said, let's use a hundred bucks,
probably easiest, you know, you have a hundred dollars, you are choosing like,
you know, we in crypto on chain, it works a little bit different.
We're, we've considered creating like a ui that's more um like a toggle that allows that basically
switches it to a more familiar ui for people who are used to trading through their brokerage
uh but essentially here like you know this is how it would work is you would that's how you or
that's how you calculate your notional exposure is you know i have 100 bucks i want i put 10x leverage
you know now i now that's a thousand you now that's a thousand dollar notional position.
If I put it on 50X, that's a $5,000 notional position,
put it on a hundred X,
then again, we're at like $10,000 notional position.
And that's the easiest way to look at it
is collateral times leverage.
And that's gonna be like your total notional exposure to any of these assets.
So it's not necessarily a margin-based borrowing system.
It's a little bit different.
And again, because you're allowing so much more leverage, it just works a little bit
different in the fact that you are setting your notional exposure directly by the amount of collateral that you choose to put up and then just times your leverage.
So a little bit different than, you know, you're used to seeing if you're just a traditional trade, future trader, CFD trader, you know, a little bit more, you know, admittedly a little bit more you know admittedly a little
bit more degen because you you have access to just like a way larger amount of leverage you know
yeah it's crazy how like the technology itself just unlocks leverage for traders and
but when i'm thinking about this and i've seen you do a demonstration on this
how easy is it for us traders to say, okay, I have a hundred bucks,
like your example, I'm willing to risk 50 of it. If I enter a position, I can go, okay, well,
I'm at 25 X long or 50 X long on the chart. Can it just pop up and tell me, Hey, if it goes below
this level, you're 50 bucks, you're, you're, you're stopped out, you're, you're, you know,
you're lost the trade or whatever, but Hey, you saved the rest of your account.
How easy is it to manage the, like on the risk management side of trading?
Yeah. I mean, you can set, set your stop losses and your take profits.
Like, you know, anything else on, on that level. Again, like,
so because it's just very directly just times leverage position or collateral
times leverage the easiest way to look at it, you know,
just kind of like off, off the top way to look at it, you know, just kind
of like off, off the top of your head is like, if you, if you are a hundred X leverage, a 1% move
wipes you out. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're on 50%, 50 X leverage, a 2% move, um, you
know, could, would basically liquidate you. So he's like the higher, the higher amount, 200,
200 X leverage, again, like a 0.5 move on the underlying asset and you're wiped out so it's like something
to be very aware of um yeah is when you're choosing your amount of leverage is it's you know
essentially the math the math work that's how the math works out is you know you're you're putting
yourself up to um a lot more volatility a lot more um just like risk with the, a smaller move in the asset. Right. So generally you can set your stop
losses, set your take profits. But again, just off top of your head, if you're just kind of like
looking at how things are is, you know, again, 10 X leverage, you know, 10% move, that's where
that's your risk limit. So you want, you normally want to um you know and and of course like with anything
else there's and you know this exists on you know tradify brokers as well is that if you know if you
have margin your position goes under your margin limit you're you're essentially liquidated you
lose all your money so it's the same it's the same type of same type of thing here except it's
it's based off of um just like again collateral times leverage. What happens if there's like a big move and it moves so fast that whatever stop loss you have,
it moves past it. And then you don't have enough money in your account for it. Just curious,
like what would happen in that sense? Does anybody account for in terms of volatility?
I mean, that's, sorry, you can repeat that. I'm not sure I understood the question. Well, I mean, probably you can't necessarily be long anything
through when futures are closed, right?
So like if you were, let's say, if you were long oil coming into whatever the downtime was yesterday
when the futures were closed between, was it 1.15 and 3 o'clock?
Like what would happen in that scenario if you were long oil
and then when the futures open,
it was like way past your stop loss?
Same thing that would happen
in the traditional market
if you had access to that type of leverage,
you're wiped out.
I mean, the way stop losses work
is that they're activated,
you know, basically at a price.
But if it moves past that price,
like, you know, you basically get it.
What happens is it activates a market order. That's
how stop losses work. That's how limit orders work, is that when they're activated, it activates
a market order. So you're not getting a guaranteed price, and that's true in traditional markets as
well. Totally possible in low liquidity periods, or if there's a crazy gap up, is that your stop
loss is activated, and then it actually, and then you, um, it actually
fills at, at a much higher or much lower price. So again, that's, that's how the traditional
markets already work. And that's the type of risk that you're putting yourself up to,
especially if you're on high leverage. So. Yeah. So I guess like the collateral you'd
have to put up or the amount of capital that has been higher for oil or something, it would be a lot higher, right?
Yeah. Again, we allow the 50 X leverage. So, you know, again, if there's a 2% move overnight
and it opens up above 2%, then I mean, yeah, essentially that, you know, it's not going to,
you're going to get liquidated. You know, it's that simple.
you're going to get liquidated. You know, it's that simple.
And again, like if you were allowed to have that much leverage in the traditional markets,
that's exactly how it would work as well. And it could still happen on a violent enough move
on a margin based system. You know, in certain cases, like IBKR or certain people, they might
have like a margin call, right? You can add more, you can add more collateral in order to prevent
yourself from being liquidated and usually get like more collateral um in order to prevent yourself from being
liquidated and usually get like a short period in order to do that um and technically here too as
well um you have like a again i would have to look up in our docs for the exact period but you have
like a very very short amount of period where you could add collateral reduce your leverage um and
basically prevent yourself from getting liquidated by adding more collateral to the position.
Similarly, again, to how it works in traditional markets, when you get your margin call, you add more margin,
you add more collateral to prevent yourself from being liquidated as well.
Sam, let me ask you a follow-up question on that.
As somebody that does trade and swing trade, and I know you've looked into a lot of these 2x leverage or 3x leverage ETFs, what are your thoughts around being able to trade with margin, being able to size up a little bit?
On ETFs? I mean, yeah, we wouldn't list thosefs essentially that's like you know not doing our customers any favor anyone who's no i meant
like i meant like somebody for like sam that i know and myself that we've traded these leverage
etfs and we do a lot of you know just underlying just equity type of trading i was i was wondering
what sam thought about being able to trade with leverage on some of these, especially since you guys have the MAG7 now.
I mean, that's the true definition and heart of degeneracy.
But anyways, I mean, I use leverage all the time.
I mean, we were talking about the competition portfolio.
portfolio. I hit Robin Hood on there, which is great. They're not great. But when it comes to
I hit a Robin Hood on there, which is great.
They're not great.
futures, I mean, I'm fairly comfortable with that. I think having a platform like Austin,
it kind of sets those parameters for you versus doing your own with interactive broker or something
where things can get pretty dicey pretty quickly for people who are not really familiar with those
limitations. And they can find themselves underwater pretty quickly for people who are not really familiar with those limitations.
And they can find themselves underwater pretty quickly in terms of a negative account.
But for the platform like Ostium, then you kind of have those parameters set ahead of time.
So then that way you're a little bit educated in a good way perspective versus just blowing up an account per se.
Right. You're responsible for your own destiny.
Like there's no, again, like there's a short period where you can add collateral, but there's no
margin call. Um, we may add like a, uh, you know, a notification system, or I think we actually are
in the process of adding a notification system where it's like, it will tell you, will at the
very least inform you if you're getting close to liquidation or, you know, your position is
getting close to being close to being liquidated. Um, but as far as like an actual like margin call,
like we're here with like basically
we're not going to liquidate you
or we'll basically give you, you know,
certain a 24 hour period or, you know,
a 12 hour period or whatever it might be
to add more margin, save your position.
And, you know, so you don't lose your money.
You know, that's one of the, also the things,
you know, there are pros and cons
to being in a decentralized working,
you know, on a blockchain type of app.
Again, you're very, very, very much responsible for your own destiny we're not
necessarily holding your hand on anything so you know things like you said
the parameters are pretty much set for you we may inform you you know when
you're getting close to liquidation all the management you know risk management
everything like that like yeah that's that's gonna be all on you and especially
at high leverage it requires requires a lot of just responsibility.
You know, I'd recommend most people just as a general kind of like a general rule.
And this is how, you know, in traditional finance institutions, most of the time they're trading on maybe 2x, 3x leverage, you know, max.
You know, like as a going up, you know, 10x, 20x, 30x, 40X, 50X leverage, we would love for you to do it.
Those liquidations don't hurt us, but yeah, it's very much if you're a newer trader,
not advisable to go up on those very, very high amounts of leverage. Because again,
unless you are just extremely disciplined, you have amazing risk management.
To manage a position where you get liquidated
on a 1% move is, or even a point again,
200X leverage, you're gonna liquidate on a 0.5 move
on the underlying asset.
Yeah, you gotta be very, very careful,
very, very aware of the markets and your own positioning
or just set very tight stop losses and take profits.
Sniper, are you here? Oh, go ahead, Tropic, jump in.
I was going to say just a quick observation. I was just looking at the recent trades section and I'm seeing a lot of activity on these uh various um uh crypto pairs
so you know the bitcoin soul uh eth i'm seeing a lot of uh trades coming in and out so that's just
really interesting to see that it is active and you're able to see that right there and especially
during these times when like news is breaking and conflicts are flaring up and going down, it's just really cool to see how people are playing it.
And as someone who is, you know, maybe looking for different convictions or which direction to possibly go, it's just really cool to see what's going on.
I just like the panel itself.
And I'm just wondering, as far as, you know, with everything that was going on recently, if there was any area recently that I guess you would say spiked that you're willing to share about?
Because as I'm looking through this right now, I just see a lot of crypto. Do you see the focus being shifted over to there during these times?
I mean, here's the thing about it is, is during the weekend, right, when all this stuff was happening, you know, Israel, Iran, a lot of drama has been happening during the weekend.
And essentially the only asset that's tradable 24-7 and that you can trade on the weekend is crypto.
Right. So during when all this drama was happening, you know, if you were to look at the charts, the most volatile, you know, the reactive asset was the only one that's open.
You know, crypto had massive swings, massive reaction to
the geopolitical macro drama. And then at futures open on Sunday, so 6 Eastern time, 6 PM,
you can see the activities switched over largely to gold, of course, as a geopolitical hedge,
kind of like macro hedge. There's a reason the gold has been kind of up only over the past two or three years.
And then also oil, obviously.
You know, a lot of people figured, you know, unrest in the Middle East, long oils.
So we've seen a lot of liquidations, a lot of people getting wiped out trying to long
oil in the past few days.
past few days. Long oil at your own peril. But yeah, the activity very much so was dominated
You know, long oil at your own peril.
in that kind of like futures open period Sunday into Monday by gold and oil. And we still have
traders with massive positions open. Just some are up a lot and some are just down.
The oil longs, I will say, are down massively, right? Like if you know the the oil longs i will say are down massively right
like if you were to long oil at the open so if you go ahead and look at just the futures open you
know on oil for you know cl last sunday and the sunday before that um what happened right it it
rocketed or not even rocketed it gapped up and immediately just nuked like it just bled out
complete retrace of of the entire move.
So basically just anyone who longed oil at the open or near the open of any of the last few weeks
just got completely wrecked because oil just completely retraced. At one point, it was down,
I think, 10% intraday yesterday. It's down again today. So yeah, maybe now is the time to long
some oil, but now that it just
everyone is wiped out um but yeah those have been the two biggest assets aside from crypto um was
the golden oil and then some as well on the indices shorting you know the s p shorting the nasdaq
um in reaction to the kind of geopolitical drama as well so no one one knows the future, but it's just really interesting
to see how people are playing this.
It's funny because I was with my friend
the other day when I came into New York
and he's actually not a traitor by profession.
He actually sells medical equipment.
But for whatever reason,
it seems like the whole world
was calling him up for advice
on what to do based on this conflict right here.
So just seeing how people are playing this,
I find it very interesting rather than just speculating purely on how you feel
to actually see what's happening and seeing the results there live.
The panel is just really great and transparent.
And I think it's really cool.
Even if you're not trading right now, I just, you know, I'm not on a team,
but just recommending just go check out the panel.
You can see all the cool stuff and you can actually see what's going on i think it's just a really
cool approach
yeah for sure that's we want we want to be the place where people go uh to kind of like see
these reactions see these uh and both see the data and you know and what is being traded and then also to take bets on it.
So we see that quite a bit.
People oftentimes come to our app and do what you just did.
They're like, okay, these are what kind of like the informed crypto,
informed kind of like macro traders are doing.
And then maybe they themselves decide to long oil, short oil, you know, gold, et cetera, et cetera. So,
yeah, we've seen quite, again, like just quite a bit of attention in that direction recently,
you know, during the tariff or not, yeah, the tariff kind of like TIFF with like Canada and
Mexico, we listed, you know, the Mexican peso, the Canadian dollar, and that's where we were
seeing a bunch of volumes. So, Austin, essentially, we've done our job well
in that people essentially use our platform
as like a macro kind of narrative trading platform.
So it's like, those are the times
when we see the most activity, the most volume,
the most attention is like, again, like Liberation Day,
any kind of like drama, geopolitical drama,
whether it's in the Middle East or anything like that.
And it's just, those are, you'll see,
you can get a really good idea of like what people like trend towards, like when certain types of events happen and kind of like use that to update your own, you know, kind of analysis of, you know, what what's reactive, what you should be trading when certain kind of like world events happen.
events happen, right?
Well, right before we get to the top of the hour here,
Flo, first, this is a little question here
and then I'm gonna throw a teaser in.
If somebody is interested in checking out Austium
a little bit deeper, first off, austium.io,
I believe that the easiest way to get there on the website,
I have it bookmarked, so I just go click on my bookmark at this point.
Ostium.io, is that correct, Flo?
Yes, Ostium.io is the main page, give you more information about Ostium as kind of a company,
just like a lot of general details.
And then once you actually are looking to start trading, you would just press open app or start app.
And from there, it gets you straight
into the trading terminal, trading module.
And basically, you can start trading from there.
So either austium.io, if you kind of want to see,
you know, more so what we're all about
and kind of like the brand, austium.app,
if you don't care about any of that stuff
and you just want to start trading immediately,
you know, and going and blown up on 200x leverage.
I have that one bookmarked. It's the .app. I was like, just take me straight in here.
Flo, are there videos or something that if people wanted to maybe like see this in action a little bit, and I'm kind of teasing at something here, but I want to see if you guys have any like videos, content that people could watch and see,
okay, let me see this thing in action a little bit.
I've recently started kind of creating like a little tutorial video series just for people to kind of teach them how to onboard the app,
how to execute a trade, things like that.
So we haven't published it publicly yet.
It'll likely go into our docs, our Gitbook in the future.
But, you know, again, this is something that I've been working on and I have.
So, again, open invite.
You know, we actually love doing like white glove trader onboarding, you know, just getting basically people on the app.
So, again, send me DM here on X or on Telegram.
It's the same at.
So FlowTraderTM.
I'd be glad to send you a couple of videos that'll go through just the easiest way
to onboard off-bard your funds to the app,
how to execute a trade and the basics of how it works.
And what I'm leading into on this as well
is there's going to be another great opportunity
to see Ostium in action.
We've been working up our Wolf Crypto team, some of the traders that we know from our different spaces.
Some of you in the audience have probably seen them on different spaces with us, different conversations that we have.
We're putting together a little trading competition, a little for fun among our traders.
There is going to be a little prize involved here as well.
But stay tuned.
We are finalizing some of the details on that.
Make sure you're following that Wolf Crypto account.
You see that orange wolf up here.
It was up here on stage.
It's a listener right up here towards the top of mine.
And of course, this Wolf Financial page here.
We're going to finalize some of those details.
We're going to take some of our TradFi traders, some of our crypto traders, or some of them
probably don't even want that label because I think a lot of them are just traders in
general.
And we're going to put a little competition together.
We're going to live stream it so you can actually watch some of the traders that we have in
our network go head to head against each other using Ostium and trading on the platform.
So I'm super excited for that.
We are right at the top of the hour.
Flo, great having you on.
I always love talking with you, whether it's deep diving into Ostium like this
or when we just – you're a trader at heart.
I love hearing your perspective as well.
Any thoughts that you want to leave with the crowd today before we close up shop?
Sorry about that. Muted my mic for a minute. No, I mean, I think we covered a lot here. Again, thank you for your guys' time. Love being on these Wolf Financial Spaces, doing these AMAs,
and of course doing the kind of like market talk stuff as well um yeah again just open invitation uh check out the check out the app
austium.app check out uh you know our you can check out our twitter page follow us at austium
labs on x uh slash twitter and um yeah again just reiterate send me a DM, telegram here and be glad to,
you know, kind of like show you, show you run the app and onboard you or anything like that. So.
Yeah. Appreciate you joining Flo. Big shout out to the Osteum team. Make sure you follow that
Osteum account, follow Flo as well. And like he was saying, he's not just saying that we've
actually, we have a big group message going
with all of our traders that are excited about learning Osteum. They're diving in head first,
figuring out the trading. And I'm telling you what, so far, everything I'm hearing is amazing.
I've been playing around with it myself a little bit, and I'm super excited to be able to trade
everything with leverage in one spot. So big shout out to the Osteum crew. Shout out to Flo
for being up here with us today, chatting with us for the last hour after the great tassel conversation we had earlier as
well. Tropic, Sniper, ThamSolid was up here. We had Noah on here for a little bit. You'll see some
of those names, familiar faces on that trading competition. So stay tuned for that. In the
meantime, follow Ostium, go to ostium.io or ostium.app and check it out for
yourself. Start trading on there. Play around with it a little bit. I guarantee you will be
shocked by the amount of features and cool stuff that's coming out ahead of its time. Like I said
at the beginning of the show, kind of like Tesla's RoboTaxi, ahead of its time and coming quickly to
you. Flo, appreciate you, my friend. Take care.
Thanks, everyone, for tuning in.
A great hour here.
I am going back to the trading space
over on Wolf Trading for about an hour.
We're about to hit all-time high right now.
I'm watching.
We are 15 points away on the NASDAQ right now
from making a new all-time high after 125 days.
So a lot going on in the market,
a lot of trading action going
on. I'm going to go hang out with the crew and then we'll have our stocks on spaces a little
bit later this afternoon as well. Big shout out to the crew. Thanks everyone for tuning in. If you
missed any of the Tesla or Ostium conversation, this will become a recording in just about 10
seconds when I close this out and we'll see you guys on the next space. Take care, everyone. Thank you.
